#29 - Reimagining Buildings: Passive House, Craftsmanship & the Future of Construction

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Hello and welcome to the
building Psychology party where

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we talk about better buildings
to live and breathe in.

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Today on the show, I'm joined by
two voices you may already know

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if you're into high performance
buildings and Passive House.

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Matthew Cutler and Zach Semke
are the Co hosts of the Passive

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House podcast where they share
insights from experts all over

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the world who are pushing the
boundaries of building

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performance.
Zach is also the driving force

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behind Reimagined Buildings, a
YouTube channel and movement

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dedicated to making better
buildings the norm, not the

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exception.
Between the two of them, they

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have been amplifying stories,
ideas, and the technical know

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how that are reshaping how we
think about comfort, health, and

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sustainability in the built
environment.

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Today, we'll dive into what
motivates their work, the

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lessons they've learned from
talking to so many change

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makers, and what the future of
buildings could look like if we

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dare to reimagine them.
Welcome to the show gents.

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Thank you.
Great to have you.

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Good.
To be here.

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So could you both?
We'll start with you, Matthew.

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Share a little bit about your
career and your journey into

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high performance buildings.
Sure.

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Well, I got into buildings after
doing an engineering degree.

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It was a sort of second attempt
at university for me, and it was

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a sort of environmental
engineering.

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I really wanted to do something
around energy because I thought

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energy was sexy as opposed to
water and just, you know,

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sustainability, environmental
management in general.

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And of course we we have a bit
of a connection with Adelaide

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Jess, which is.
We do.

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We do.
You are now where I.

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Grew up.
Adelaide being or SA being the

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driest state in Australia, which
is the driest continents.

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So waters was was top of mind,
but I I just didn't think it was

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that sexy.
I still think it is and I think

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water and ecology and general
environmental sustainability as

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it as it's, I think it's still
the valid term was was

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appealing.
But because I was interested in

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energy, I eventually found
myself working in the space of

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trying to make existing
buildings more energy efficient.

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But what I've learned and what
we might get on to is the fact

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that it's more and more about
health and comfort is kind of

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tends to be where where we're
at.

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So that's kind of yeah, my, the
built environment.

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And if you hang around that
space long enough and they're

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interested in trying to work out
how to do buildings better,

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particularly homes, I think you
eventually end up at Passive

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House.
Yeah, eventually, I think you

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probably do ultimately and you
know, you kind of pick your

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point somewhere along that,
along that line as to where

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you're going to land.
But eventually you do get there.

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All roads lead to passive House.
Zach, how about yourself?

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So you're joining us from the US
today.

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Yes, I'm based in Seattle, WA
and then beautiful Pacific

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Northwest.
And my story about my

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introduction to Passive House
actually echoes the story of a

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lot of people that we've
interviewed, which is that the

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Great Recession kind of forced a
big, you know, shift and, and

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upheaval in my career.
And that's when I found Passive

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House that I've studied human
ecology back in in college many

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years ago and was involved in my
first work, was involved in

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policy advocacy around
progressive regional planning.

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So working toward more urban,
more density and urban spaces

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and having transportation
options like light rail and

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buses and bikes and and green
spaces and affordable housing

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and all these kinds of things.
And I was doing that in

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Portland, OR, which at the time
was in the 90s at the time was a

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real Mecca for urban planning
geeks around the country.

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And so that's, that was my first
work.

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But then I, I kind of took a, a
detour.

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My wife and I started a Japanese
drumming group in Portland and

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that took over.
So it was Port Portland Taiko

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was my life for like 11 years,
which is which is very fun and

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crazy and and awesome and and
all consuming.

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But I went back to school in
2005 to study and I wanted to do

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landscape architecture,
landscape design and build,

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create public spaces where
people could come together.

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So it's a little bit of a
combination of the, my, my

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interest in performing arts and
bringing audiences together and

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then my interest in urban
planning.

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And so I did that and started
and was working for an

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architecture firm in Portland
when the Great Recession

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happened.
And I was like, and I, you know,

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I love school, but I also was
very, I loved Graduate School

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and, and landscape design, but
it's also very clear that I was

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a brand new player and all this
and there were tons of landscape

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architects out of work.
And I felt like, you know, I'm

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just going to look for any work
right now because maybe this is

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a Great Depression, I don't
know.

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And so that's when I landed at
Hammer and Hand, which is a

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building company in Portland and
now in Seattle that at the time

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was building some of the very
first Passive House projects in

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the Northwest.
And in short order, I got to

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Start learning about Passive
House as well as home

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performance, which is kind of on
the other end of the continuum

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of building science and, and
building practice and write

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about it and start documenting
projects with video.

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And kind of, we had this, the
firm had this very long view of

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marketing.
So I'm, I'm, I'm going way too

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far into this, but that was my
entree.

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It was the right recession kind
of shook things up.

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And so I needed to kind of
reinvent myself.

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And like many people in this
community, in different ways,

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that's how Passive House became
part of my life.

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Yeah, right.
And so how did you guys actually

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meet?
And then the Passivhaus podcast

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was born.
Take us there because you're in

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the US and Matt, you're in
Australia.

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Oh, no, sorry.
New Zealand fill in some.

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It's all Matthew.
It was.

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It was the IT is the whole the
the IT was completely his

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brainchild.
I I got.

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Yeah, but does not surprise me.
They, well, the, the Passivhaus

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live started, I think just as
COVID was hitting and.

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So basically, like these global
crises is what's propelled your

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careers forward.
Yeah.

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Exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.
So I'd, I'd been to a few pesos

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conferences and spoken to people
like Elrond's Braille and played

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around with a bit of podcasting
myself looking at the sort of

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Better Homes and I, I realized
that nobody was doing it a

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specialized passive house
podcast at the time.

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And then I was wasn't quite
stuck in the office, but a lot

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of stuff was going online.
Passive House Live started up,

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which was amazing because we
this suddenly have this

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community of people, great
presentations, really good

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format of having a presentation
for 20 minutes or so.

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But then people would stick
around sometimes for, I don't

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know, Zach well, sometimes it
was over an hour, sometimes that

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people would just be chatting
because in your time.

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Early days, yeah, When it
started, Couple hours.

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You guys, you guys were drinking
beer and I was drinking coffee

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and so people were just hanging
out.

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Eventually I'd have to leave
because it was during my work

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day and I'd have to go and do
some work, but these guys were

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just carrying on.
I thought there's such a great

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community.
So I reached out to Zach and say

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how I've been thinking about
doing a dedicated passive House

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podcast.
How about, you know, is there an

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opportunity to combine it with
all the great stuff that was

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starting to happen with with
with Michael and we kicking off

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passive House live and Zach and
the whole team, the whole cast

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that we're doing that and that's
it kind of just grew.

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Zach said yes and and we
started.

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Excellent.
That's right.

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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It was when when Matthew, when
Matthew approached me, I was

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like, of course, I have no idea
how to do a podcast, but let's

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do a podcast.
There's definitely in that

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moment.
I mean, yeah, that's kind of

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yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
No idea what I'm doing.

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Yeah, awesome, awesome.
Well, you know, all of this

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information sharing happening
online is brilliant.

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So you know, it's, it's only
serving to, to, to keep

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propelling, propelling the
industry forward.

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So thank you gentlemen, for
your, for your contribution.

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I follow the podcast.
I have been on the podcast.

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So yeah, thank you for coming
online.

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Absolutely.
It's great to be here.

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So you've interviewed so many
industry leaders.

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Do you have one conversation
that's stuck with you and why?

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Who wants to go first?
Zach, you can go first this

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time.
Yeah, you go first, Zach.

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Good luck looked I was just
looking I was just looking at

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the the podcast and I think we
have when we have all the bonus

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episodes as well.
We have like 400 something

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episodes.
So it's a lot.

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There's a lot to drop from.
So it's really hard to choose.

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But Sarah Lewis of a pass post
trust was and I actually didn't

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conduct the interview that it
was an interview that Mary James

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and Jay Fox, who are Co hosts
conducted.

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But I am just, well, first of
all, I'm just so impressed by

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the pass post trust and really
compelled by Sarah's work and

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the impact that she's having
among, you know, a team of

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people on policy making in
Scotland and that whole that

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whole progress process.
I also was struck by her kind of

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clear eyed view about the
challenge of doing full on the

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past interfit retrofits and the
recognition that those are

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really important and kind of
lighthouse projects.

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And we also need to be thinking
about what what can we scale in

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in retrofits.
So that's like, I just think

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that's a really interesting
question that all of us are

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grappling with.
And yeah, she's, I mean, she's

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brilliant.
So that was that was a highlight

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for me.
So your your question, your one

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of your sort of main questions
is how to scale the the

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improvement of the existing
housing stock.

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That's right.
That's right.

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And and you know, and
understanding that that an

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interfit retrofit is hard.
So and it's it's So what can we

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do with the buildings that don't
do interfit?

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That would be one way to phrase
that, yeah.

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Yeah, Yep, Yep.
How about you, Matthew?

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Yeah, so many very hard to
choose, but I've gone back into

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the archives and Nikita reads
was episodes was in the 80s

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episode 80, so a few years ago
now.

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But one of the things that I've
been really impressed and and

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shout out to our other Co hosts,
Mary James and and Orca Cassidy,

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who have sought out over the
three or four years these

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amazing women, particularly who
are doing just incredible stuff

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out in the industry.
And we've, we've had the

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opportunity to talk to people,
not necessarily from a technical

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passive house origin, but
finding ways to influence the

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built environment and having all
these amazing other impacts in

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society.
And Nikita is also another

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fellow podcaster, so she
definitely check her out on

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line.
She runs a podcast called

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Tangible Remnants and she's all
about.

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The show notes.
Yeah, she focuses a lot on on

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the one of the biggest
challenges is, is how do we

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adapt what already exists.
So fixing up existing buildings.

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But has she's done some really
good work on historic

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preservation that includes
sustainability, bringing now

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carbon into that equation as
well.

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But on top of all that, looking
at in her case, in particular

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American history and and
particularly the African

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American experience and and how
that influences the built

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environment and have a good
environment can have positive

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outcomes for so much more than
just someone's power bill.

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So yeah, just one example
others, but it's it's a

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privilege I think to talk to to
amazing people like Nikita.

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OK.
All right.

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I'll definitely go back and have
a listen to that one and I will

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link it in the show notes for
anyone who, pardon me, who is

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interested.
Funnily enough, you've both,

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you've both touched on existing
building stock.

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I think when I first, first got
into air tightness testing and,

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and all of that building
performance stuff, it was

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actually around existing
building stock as well.

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Like so you know, you can blow
it or test an existing home and

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improve it pretty easily.
So that's kind of where my head

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was at as well when I started on
this journey way back when.

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Very cool.
So Co hosting this podcast means

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that you've both got a front row
seat.

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You said you've got 400
interviews in the bank.

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That's the phenomenal,
phenomenal number of

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conversations.
You've got a front row seat to

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00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,040
what's going on in the industry
and global building innovation.

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Where do you see the untapped
opportunities that we're not

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00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,000
talking about enough yet?
For me, I mean, there are so

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many and there's lots of
emerging stuff, particularly

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around carbon.
I think money is what makes the

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world go round and figuring out
how to finance buildings better

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and better building I think is
one of the big issues but also a

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big opportunity.
And we've also talked to sort of

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people who have come from a a
property development side and

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they see the, the economics of
Passive House.

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And there's also people like
Emma Edmondson, who's who's

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managed to convince local
councils in around the UK of

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the, the wider societal economic
benefits.

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So I think tapping into the
whole financing side, whatever

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that looks like in, in people's
particular jurisdiction,

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wherever they're with it,
wherever they're designing and

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building.
And sometimes that can be grant

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00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,280
funding.
Look, I mean, there have been,

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and I think still are some, some
pretty amazing funding

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00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,600
opportunities available in, in
the States, but it is also just

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making a really good business
case.

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And the more we can do that and
in our space, we we tend to get

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00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,720
a bit idealistic, but we need to
realize that we're playing in a

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very capitalist environment of
property.

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So we need to try and craft that
message as much as we can that

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00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,200
it makes financial sense because
in a lot of cases it really

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does.
But a lot of people just focus

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on cost without necessarily
looking at the value side.

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And that value side of the
equation really does often make

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00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,160
passive House a bit of a no
brainer.

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Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Zach, what's your take on that?

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What's your untapped
opportunity?

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The untapped opportunity.
So I feel like there is a lot of

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00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,240
value to taking the systems
thinking of Passive House like

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at at the building level that I
think a lot of us are probably

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familiar with and applying that
to the bigger picture.

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And so when I mean the bigger
picture, I mean essentially

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resilience and decarbonization
and the relationship between

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buildings and the clean energy
transition between, between

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efficiency and a body carbon
man.

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I think that there are right now
the untapped potential is has to

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do with the fact that I think
there are kind of misperceptions

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00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:22,040
about in body carbon and energy
efficiency somehow being it at

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00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,640
rather than actually lowering a
body carbon and and improving

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00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,760
energy efficiency.
Can be can can go hand in hand

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00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,720
and also that say, you know, if
you have a clean energy grid

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00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,000
passive house isn't important
that the reality that we're

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00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:43,080
seeing, at least in in North
America is that the better

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00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:45,920
energy performance and kind of
the building as a thermal

288
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,120
battery is something that really
supports the clean energy

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00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,920
transition.
So I think that that speaks to

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00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:57,680
just sort of a larger issue or
opportunity and that is 1 where

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00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:02,720
I think we can really do be
doing a better job of working

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00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,800
outside of our silos.
So working outside of the Paso

293
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,880
silo and and connecting,
connecting with all the people

294
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,680
who really care about buildings
and climate and resilience, who

295
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,040
are really focused on materials
and on antibody carbon or who

296
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,240
are really focused on on clean
energy.

297
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:22,080
I really see a lot of ways that
all of those different

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00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:27,880
components of building a better
future are truly self or

299
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:32,880
mutually reinforcing, and I
think that I'm eager to see that

300
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,480
kind of awareness increase.
It's definitely of interest.

301
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,080
But I think Matthew, what you
say about the, the dollar being

302
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,320
being the bottom line is, is
definitely the case.

303
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,160
And there are some big banks in
Australia who are giving lower

304
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,800
interest rates, for example, for
better star ratings and things

305
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:50,400
like that.
But Passive House is still very

306
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,480
much on the fringes of what
people are willing to do and,

307
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,880
and look at, which is the
untapped opportunity for me.

308
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,800
And I don't know where, where
this quite lands for society in

309
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,280
terms of like what, you know,
it, it baffles my mind that

310
00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,040
there's not a stronger
connection between the the

311
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,000
health industry and the building
industry.

312
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,640
So there needs like in terms of
working in our silos, Zach, you

313
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,319
know, the connection between
those two parts of the world,

314
00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:15,160
those in all countries and in
the world needs to be a lot

315
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,839
stronger.
And Passive House is definitely

316
00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:22,480
a connecting force for that, for
that conversation, Because for

317
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,960
me, capacity pass is much more
about building health than it is

318
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,600
about energy costs.
You know, because if you've got

319
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,440
a, an unhealthy building or a,
or a moldy building, or you

320
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,040
know, a building that's not
supporting your family, family's

321
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:38,880
well-being, then really the cost
of your electricity is neither

322
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:40,920
here nor there.
Right.

323
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,680
I think resilient building
resilience is also something

324
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:49,640
that's really coming to the fore
for us, especially on the West,

325
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:54,320
in the West, and I imagine, I
imagine in Australia as well,

326
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,240
right.
And with the wildfires that

327
00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,440
we've been experiencing and the
smoke, we, we actually had a

328
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,320
pretty good summer this summer,
but we did just get hit by a, a

329
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,800
few days of fairly bad smoke It,
it can get really bad.

330
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:14,280
And those, you know, having a
Passivhaus really helps maintain

331
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,320
a comfortable, healthy interior
environment, especially if you

332
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:22,520
have the, you know, a little
extra filtration on your, on

333
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,760
your HRV or erv.
And so I think that there are

334
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:30,960
more, more and more people are,
are becoming aware of bad air

335
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,000
outside and figuring out how to
protect themselves from that bad

336
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,000
air outside.
And our current, you know,

337
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,240
existing building stock doesn't
really do that.

338
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,880
So I think there's an opening
there for some progress in

339
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,920
buildings.
For sure Passive House

340
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,760
conference, not this year, but
last year I think it was there

341
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,440
was a presentation by a lady who
built a certified Passive House

342
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,160
childcare centre.
And that was in Melbourne.

343
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,920
Maybe some there was, it was in
a location where they had a lot

344
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,440
of Bush fires in the previous
Bush fire season.

345
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,840
And that childcare centre was
used as a, as a safe place for

346
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,920
everyone to go because you could
breathe in the in the inside.

347
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,720
Yeah.
So that, that, that spoke

348
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,160
volumes, that anecdotes spoke
volumes to me.

349
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,360
And at the same time, I had a
friend who was living in

350
00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:19,240
Canberra and they had to had a
newborn baby and there was

351
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,400
bushfires.
And the bushfires were quite

352
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,600
some distance away, but the
smoke was travelling a long way.

353
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,680
And they had to tape up their
windows and doors because the

354
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,680
smoke was coming inside from
kilometers and kilometers away.

355
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,680
And they had this newborn baby
that was, you know, vulnerable.

356
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:39,120
So these two anecdotes happening
at the same time, you know it,

357
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,080
it really did illuminate the
issue.

358
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:47,480
We've done, we've done a whole
series, Zach on the air,

359
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,800
infiltrate the air filtration
boxes.

360
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,800
Which which you had to find out,
yeah.

361
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,440
Yeah.
Yeah.

362
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,640
Say more.
Yeah, it's a well, do you want

363
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,160
to explain it, Matthew?
I can't remember the name.

364
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:00,880
What?
What are they?

365
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,000
What are they?
Yeah, Court Corsi.

366
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:04,920
I think there are a couple of
names.

367
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,000
They're named out for the people
who helped develop them, but

368
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,400
courtesy Rosenthal, Boxes is one
name where.

369
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,760
You search, if you search up,
yeah, if you search up those,

370
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,240
those boxes, you get lots of
recipes online because people

371
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,520
have basically created these
plans of how to make your own

372
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:29,200
filtration box because it got so
bad, particularly in your in

373
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,480
your region.
I had looked at some of the the

374
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,040
outdoor air quality maps, Zack,
and you've told the story about

375
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,040
how you were basically choosing
between do I have high CO2

376
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,920
internally because I've got
everything closed or do I

377
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,560
breathe but breathe in
essentially toxic air from

378
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:46,920
outside?
And that that was the choice

379
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,320
people were having to make.
That's often the choice, yeah.

380
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,760
Yeah.
I'll have to link whatever those

381
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,080
boxes are in the show notes.
I'll find out more afterwards as

382
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:59,040
well so we can look into that.
Anyone who's interested in DIY

383
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,480
air air air filtration?
An unfortunate requirement of

384
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,680
fixing a symptom, whereas, you
know, the, the, the benefits of

385
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,040
being in a passive houses that
you don't need that because it,

386
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,160
that the house has got its own
built in filtration system and

387
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,440
fresh air supply.
And this is becoming

388
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,880
particularly relevant in a lot
of areas around Australia where

389
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:22,120
that wildfire and bushfires are
a real, real concern.

390
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,960
And it's not just about
survivability, it's also about

391
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,000
livability during those events
because it, you know, the smoke

392
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,400
can spread a long way.
It's also relevant to people.

393
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,760
If you're just near a main
motorway, Hwy., big big road,

394
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:39,240
industrial area, whatever, you
know, outdoor area is not always

395
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,120
as clean and healthy as we think
it is.

396
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,200
And I and I have.
To say house can can help with

397
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,760
that and and protect people on
on the inside.

398
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:49,880
It's not something that occurred
to me.

399
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:51,080
You know it doesn't.
It doesn't.

400
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:52,840
It's invisible.
Yeah.

401
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,080
Air tightness is invisible.
CO2 is invisible.

402
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,000
Particular matter is invisible.
It's all invisible until you

403
00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,160
start measuring it.
Well, you.

404
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:04,200
Don't have your filters on your
ventilation system and see yeah.

405
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,280
Yeah.
Crap that you would otherwise.

406
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,440
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah.

407
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,400
Or your or your or your sorry.
Or your indoor air quality

408
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,200
monitor with numbers on it.
You know, So how do you balance

409
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,680
the technical depth of the
Passive House podcast with

410
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,880
making the content accessible
and inspiring to your audience

411
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:24,000
and to a broad audience to not
just the Passive House audience?

412
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:26,520
I'm not.
I was thinking about this.

413
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:32,640
I'm not sure that we always do.
I hope we're accessible and

414
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,240
inspiring.
Yeah.

415
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,280
I mean, one of the things that
I, I, when I'm talking to

416
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,320
particularly architects and
people kind of in the Passive

417
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:49,960
House tent, I often talk to them
either openly or, or the way I

418
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,040
talk, try talking to them is, is
thinking about how can I help

419
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,080
them to communicate to their
clients and to that, that wide

420
00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:59,240
audience.
Because I think a lot of our

421
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,920
audience is in sort of the
passive House space and, and

422
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,960
it's, it's sort of people within
our network.

423
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:10,000
But I, I, I try and encourage
those people to, to think about

424
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,280
better ways to communicate to
their audience, which is sort of

425
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,280
the next degree of
communication.

426
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,240
And this is something that I
know Zach has thought a lot

427
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:20,600
about.
And in fact, that was the

428
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,600
genesis behind creating a whole
bunch of resources early on that

429
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,880
were Creative Commons licenses.
So some visual aids for helping

430
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,520
people to talk about what
Passive House is.

431
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,920
Because a lot of the, we just
saw a lot of the same old videos

432
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,840
that were popping up whenever
someone decided to talk about

433
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,600
Passive House, it was always the
same video that people showing.

434
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,400
So, you know, Pacifast
Accelerator's got some great

435
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,520
resources that are freely
available that really help with

436
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,320
that communication process.
So before we move on, tell us

437
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,800
what Pacifast Accelerator is
different to That's the

438
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:54,960
supporting entity for the
podcast.

439
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,600
What's the relationship?
Yes, yes.

440
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,880
So, yeah.
So Pacifast Accelerator is a

441
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:06,000
media company essentially, yeah.
So we we do original articles

442
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,040
every week published through the
website and distributed through

443
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,680
the mailing list.
We have Passivhaus Accelerator

444
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,120
live that Matthew was referring
to.

445
00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:18,920
So it was that that grew out of
straight out of the second week

446
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,960
of COVID at that time known as
the global Passivhaus Happy

447
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,360
hour.
So that is a that's a kind of a

448
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,880
mainstay or really at the heart
of who the accelerator is, is,

449
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,400
is that, you know, weekly live
program.

450
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,080
And we have the podcast and then
we have a couple of YouTube

451
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:39,640
channels.
One is the reimagine buildings

452
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,400
channel, which is more like
explainers and documentary

453
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,000
style, you know, pieces about
projects and then the the past

454
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,400
fast accelerator.
The channel is where we have the

455
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,880
the archive in the library of
all of the different

456
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,840
presentations that have happened
in our live program view.

457
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,960
So many hundreds of videos
there.

458
00:24:58,520 --> 00:24:59,720
Yep.
With a bunch of stuff.

459
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,160
So.
So that's the accelerators, all

460
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:03,320
of those things.
Yeah.

461
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,400
And then the reimagined
Buildings Collective is an

462
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,360
outgrowth of the Pass Pass
Accelerator.

463
00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:12,320
And that's our membership
community for OK builders and

464
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,520
designers and change makers.
Yeah, yeah.

465
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,680
All right, again, information
will all be LinkedIn the show

466
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:18,960
notes.
So if you want to get involved

467
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,440
with the passive pass
accelerator, the reimagined

468
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,480
buildings, the podcast, and what
was the other one?

469
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,800
The the pass fuzz accelerator
live maybe?

470
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,360
The that doesn't.
Reimaginable this collective the

471
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,200
community.
Collective, the collective one.

472
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,000
Yeah, collective.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

473
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:35,040
yeah.
All of that will be linked.

474
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,120
So check it out and, and get
involved because you've got a

475
00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:39,320
lot to learn with these
gentlemen.

476
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,280
So yeah, Zach, your your take on
balancing the content and making

477
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,920
it accessible.
Yeah, well, I mean, I, I agree

478
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,720
with Matthew.
I think that there's a it's hard

479
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,080
to do that.
I but on the other hand, like

480
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,680
Matthew's an engineer.
I'm I'm not, I don't, I don't

481
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,200
have a technical background, so
it's hard for me to go all that

482
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:04,240
technical on my own.
So I think I think, you know,

483
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,840
maybe I geek out when I started.
Yo, no, it's great.

484
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:07,240
It's.
Great.

485
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,000
Definitely.
That is, there's a yeah, there's

486
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,160
a place.
There's a place for, for those

487
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:13,640
of us.
Right, right, right.

488
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:18,040
Yeah, maybe a little.
Yeah, we're may be able to talk

489
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,480
about it differently.
Yeah.

490
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,080
So, but I mean, I think it is.
I mean, our main, our main

491
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:29,880
audience are practitioners.
So, so I think it's OK that it

492
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,200
gets a little bit technical.
And I agree with Matthew that I

493
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,600
think it's important for us as a
community to figure out how to

494
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,840
to speak plainly about the
benefits of a Passive House in a

495
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,840
in a way that it is compelling
and speaks to people's needs and

496
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:46,520
wants.
Absolutely.

497
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,040
Because honestly, people don't
care about 15 kilowatt hours

498
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,760
per, you know, square meter.
They don't care.

499
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,280
That means nothing to most
people.

500
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,320
What they care about is how it
feels a family, how it feels

501
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,280
mentally and and and how it
feels to their health.

502
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,680
It's time for a quick sponsor
shout out.

503
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,640
Today's episode of the Building
Psychology Potty is proudly

504
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,320
brought to you by our amazing
sponsors in Euro Builders and

505
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,520
Climate Shore.
A huge thank you to these

506
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,360
incredible businesses for
supporting the podcast and

507
00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:18,760
helping us spread the word about
better buildings to live and

508
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,240
breathe in.
Your support makes this podcast

509
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,280
possible.
Please head over to their

510
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,520
websites and follow their social
pages.

511
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,880
Yeah, yeah.
And their and their back pocket,

512
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,400
of course.
The bank balance, yeah.

513
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,200
All right.
Zach, Speaking of reimagined

514
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,680
buildings, could you talk us
through the vision behind that

515
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,440
and what you are hoping to
achieve with it?

516
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,680
Yeah.
So reimagined buildings is a, is

517
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,880
a term that we started using
with the that podcast channel

518
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,560
partly as a way to start to
reach beyond Passive House.

519
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,280
And I think passive house, I
think is beginning to, to get

520
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,080
some name recognition of people
are starting to understand it as

521
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:01,120
a brand and respected as a
brand.

522
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,640
But it wouldn't be your first
choice if you were going to go

523
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,160
to like a marketing agency and
say, Hey, I have this really

524
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,560
amazing approach to buildings
that could like change the

525
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:11,880
world.
What should I call it?

526
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,520
Passive House is probably not
the greatest term and oh, it's,

527
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,360
it's not just for houses and
it's actually not entirely

528
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:21,800
passive.
And I know passive like is sort

529
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,760
of a has this negative pot, you
know, like it's just, it's, it's

530
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,000
not a great day label.
So, so reimagine buildings, I

531
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,000
think that was the first time
that we used it was for that

532
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,040
YouTube channel.
And then we, we started using it

533
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,600
at the reimagine buildings 24.
So we did it a year ago.

534
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,840
We did a, an online 24 hour
around the world conference

535
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:45,280
called reimagine buildings 24.
But that that's when it, we also

536
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,120
started thinking, hey, you know,
we want to have this sense of

537
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,800
community continuing between
these episodic online

538
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,840
conferences that we're doing.
So that's when we created the,

539
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,080
the online community called the
Reimagine Buildings Collective.

540
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,480
Got it.
So, so it's about being, again,

541
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,320
being inclusive of things like
upfront carbon and a body carbon

542
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,360
people, people who really care
about natural materials or

543
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,680
really care about
electrification.

544
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,000
It's recognizing and that
passive house is one element to

545
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,440
what we need to work toward for
clean and resilient building.

546
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,560
So there's passive house,
there's a body carve and there's

547
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,320
electrification, there's clean
energy, there's, you know,

548
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,720
making sure you're, you're
retrofitting, you're not using

549
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,320
too much stuff.
I mean, there's a lot of things.

550
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:34,200
And so reimagine buildings is,
is kind of embraces all of that

551
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,440
in it in its name, and it's very
flexible in its name.

552
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,640
And so we get to do things like
next week on on September 19th,

553
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,760
we're doing the reimagine
buildings massive impact

554
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,960
conference, this program by Kim
Davis.

555
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,680
Kim Davis is our programming
manager.

556
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,560
She's and she just does an
amazing job with with this.

557
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,880
So that bunch of heavy hitters
who are, you know, these are

558
00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:00,040
people who have who are moving
beyond this notion of

559
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,640
incremental change and saying,
Hey, we need to be taking some

560
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,000
leaps in our work to really make
a difference and really make an

561
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,440
impact.
And there are, you know, one of

562
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,880
the shining stories of that kind
of sensibility and what that can

563
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,800
do in terms of impact in the
world is what what happened in

564
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,840
Massachusetts, where as several
years ago, there was just one

565
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,400
like, I don't know, it's 2530
unit multifamily building, the

566
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,000
passive US building that
provided a proof of concept that

567
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,680
then other organizers and
passive US advocates and people

568
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,000
who are worried about climate
and buildings started to

569
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,880
organize around.
And that has resulted in

570
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,040
building code change in
Massachusetts that is mandating

571
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,800
Passivhaus for buildings of
multifamily buildings of 12,000

572
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,240
square feet or larger.
So this one building that early

573
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,360
movers who took the risk to make
that building and have helped

574
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:58,480
set off in motion this pathway
that's that's resulted in this

575
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,120
really incredible thing going on
in Massachusetts.

576
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,760
And like they have now 22 and a
half million square feet of

577
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,640
multi family passive house
proposed.

578
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,120
And if that all got built, that
would triple the built passive

579
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,080
house buildings in the United
States.

580
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,480
So it's like it's just a total.
Step up in.

581
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,200
The United States, the whole
United States, that's just

582
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,040
what's proposed right now in one
state.

583
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,600
So so there's this opportunity
to make a massive impact.

584
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,280
And so that's one story.
There are lots of other

585
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:30,800
different stories.
And so it's the story.

586
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:35,360
These are examples that range
from big high rises to that, you

587
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,600
know, past fells retrofit, but
they're basically celebrating

588
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,360
the fact that when we make these
moves and they can be

589
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:47,280
uncomfortable and challenging
and, and taxing on us, but when

590
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,080
we make these moves, we can make
an outsized impact on on the

591
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,640
world and move move things in
the right direction.

592
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,720
So that's they're going to be a
bunch of really cool case

593
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,920
studies about that at that
conference and we're really

594
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,400
looking forward.
To it.

595
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,200
Yeah, that sounds awesome.
So it's sort of like a little

596
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:05,880
bit like, let's start mucking
around people.

597
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,840
Let's get this done, yeah?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

598
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,240
definitely, definitely stop
talking and let's not do it.

599
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,520
You may yeah.
And we're in a somewhat

600
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,440
challenging moment here in the
United States that we don't need

601
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,960
to go into.
But the, but the, the, the fact

602
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,040
remains that that we have a lot.
We actually do have a lot

603
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,400
because because state, state
policy, governance buildings and

604
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,080
not federal policy, We have
agency.

605
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,400
We, you know, we can, we members
of the architectural and

606
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,760
engineering construction
industry can, can really make an

607
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,680
impact.
And so let's let's do it.

608
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,680
And you've been asking for
people to send in questions or

609
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,760
proposals or ideas.
Are they?

610
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,160
Are they flooding in?
They are, they are.

611
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,520
And they're, they're great
questions and they're, they're

612
00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,360
challenging, you know, so, so I
mean, that's yeah, I think it's,

613
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,320
it's, it's fair to it's fair to
recognize that this isn't isn't

614
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,720
always easy to do this work.
But but I think that that's what

615
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:12,040
is so amazing to see that you
when we see examples like what

616
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,640
what's going on in Massachusetts
or New York or Vancouver, BC.

617
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,440
I mean, a lot of this got set
off and what happened was going

618
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,640
on in Brussels, you know, then
then I think is kombu, yes.

619
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,360
And recognize OK, but I know
that this isn't always easy.

620
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,880
But I need to work.
Work toward, even if it's a

621
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,360
small move, a small change.
Make that happen.

622
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,000
Yeah.
So this is happening on the 19th

623
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,360
of September, which is 9 days
from now, which is probably

624
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,680
going to be before.
So this podcast episode will

625
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,800
probably be aired after your
event has happened.

626
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,040
Is there a way that people can
access that event if they want

627
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,640
to after after the fact?
Yes, absolutely.

628
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,240
So it will be recorded and it
is, it is part of the Reimagine

629
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,520
Buildings Collective.
So I would, it would be amazing

630
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,040
if we had people join the
collective.

631
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,360
This there's no, this is an
online forum is, has people from

632
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,840
all over the world.
So that one of the benefits of

633
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,040
being a collective member is you
have access to all the

634
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,600
recordings of all of the
Reimagine Buildings conferences.

635
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,280
We do.
And we, we're starting to do

636
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:14,760
quite a few.
We just did.

637
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,719
Yeah.
We this is #4 this year.

638
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,199
Fantastic.
Well, I will put that

639
00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:24,199
information in the show notes
again for anyone who is

640
00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:26,000
interested.
It sounds amazing.

641
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,880
It sounds really cool.
And the whole reimagined

642
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,639
buildings notion is terms of
accessibility.

643
00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:32,600
Talking about the the notion of
accessibility.

644
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,239
I do like the terminology.
I do like it.

645
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,000
It's sort of like let's let's
let's rethink this.

646
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,159
Let's you know, let's let's
think outside the box and let's

647
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:43,560
get to let's get together and
and see if we can come up with

648
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:44,480
something a little bit
different.

649
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:49,400
I like it.
So you know, Zach, earlier you

650
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:54,159
mentioned that Passive House is
it can be a problematic term

651
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,400
just in its in on its own, but
it's it's it can be problematic

652
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:02,200
for society for a broader
adoption point of view.

653
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,520
What do you guys think the
biggest barriers are to that?

654
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,520
So I, I think one of the, one of
the biggest barriers to passive

655
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:14,720
houses, people knowing that it
exists or, or then believing

656
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:17,080
that it works.
There are very few people that

657
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,600
we talked to who have designed
Passivhaus or builders who have

658
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,240
built Passivhaus, people who
have been in one, lived in one,

659
00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:26,000
worked in one, whoever want to
go back.

660
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,960
So it does work.
And people who have experienced

661
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,280
it in some form, whether
professionally or, or living in

662
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,600
or experiencing one first hand,
they get that belief.

663
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,480
So it, it's a, it's a sort of a
slow ripple, ripple effect.

664
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,320
And I guess so that the biggest
barrier is speed and getting

665
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:50,440
more people to experience it and
truly believe what a better way

666
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,880
of being inside a building feels
like.

667
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,600
Because like I say, once you
have experienced that, it's very

668
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,720
hard to go back to something
that's not that.

669
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,320
We hear so many anecdotal
stories of people, you know, the

670
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,520
most heart wrenching ones tend
to be people with sick children

671
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,720
who have battled for years and
years with respiratory disease

672
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,120
suddenly move into a home that's
good, good ventilation,

673
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,400
reasonable insulation and just
works.

674
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,680
And a lot of these symptoms
disappear.

675
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,040
And going back to what you said
about linking buildings with

676
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,760
with health, Jess, we know that
link is there.

677
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,800
Quantifying it can be a little
bit challenging, but it's

678
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:30,720
definitely there.
And the more that we can get

679
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:33,880
people to to really experience
and feel that I think is is the

680
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,840
way forward.
Zach, would you like to add

681
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,320
anything?
Just just that I think that the

682
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:44,120
challenge is that change is, is
hard, you know, and people are,

683
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,400
are adverse to change.
So the challenge is 1 of

684
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,480
figuring out how to, to move,
move others, you know, move

685
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,640
ourselves to move others.
And that comes down to

686
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:58,440
understanding people and
communicating, you know, in a

687
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,400
way that speaks to what they
care about.

688
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:02,600
Yeah.
See, I don't quite understand

689
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,840
that aversion to change.
I like change.

690
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,960
I'm excited by change.
I'm excited by what's new and

691
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:12,240
exciting and what's next.
So the idea of not.

692
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,920
Sorry, I'm interrupting, but I,
yeah, I mean, I, so I think that

693
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,360
that is true for a lot of us in
the community.

694
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,200
I think it's one of and I and
maybe it's one of the

695
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,320
occupational hazards of when we
try to communicate about this

696
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:27,240
stuff, it's like I.
Think so.

697
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,840
I mean, it's not just that that
we're a bunch of technical

698
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:32,440
geeks.
It's also that we really like

699
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,440
new, new, new stuff.
I mean, it's interesting.

700
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,760
Like some of the early adopters
of the first Passive House,

701
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,040
single family homes are often,
you know, geeky engineer people.

702
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:48,400
Yeah, who are into gadgets.
So anyway, yeah, yeah, I can.

703
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,720
I get it.
And it's going back to the

704
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:53,680
communication piece that we
talked about before.

705
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,200
I've reflected on the fact that
from the first time that I heard

706
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,560
the words Passive House and also
heard someone say air tightness

707
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:07,600
to when I was not quite an
evangelist, but you know,

708
00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:10,080
encouraging other people about
how great these things are.

709
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,760
There's probably at least a two
year gap between those events

710
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,760
and I often fall into the trap
that I think I can convince

711
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,120
someone how great passive House
inside 20 minutes.

712
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:22,840
And I think it's very, it's very
easy.

713
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:27,080
It's very easy to forget where
we've personally come from and

714
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,360
that the how long it's taken to
change in that, you know, having

715
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,800
to constantly talk people
through the subversion to

716
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,000
airtightness because who wants
to live in an airtight box?

717
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,960
But that's a conversation we
just need to keep having about,

718
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,360
you know, the benefits of air
tightness and maybe reframing it

719
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,880
as I've heard people talk about
it as maybe talking about energy

720
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,600
tightness instead of air
tightness and having constant

721
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,080
supply for a share.
So, you know, thinking about how

722
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,400
how to talk about some of these
terms in a bit of a way.

723
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,200
But also the underlying thing is
having empathy and realizing

724
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,000
that for some people,
particularly us engineers who

725
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,000
like things, you know, very, we
don't like surprises.

726
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,120
It can take a little time to
change, particularly if we've

727
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,560
grown up around this idea of
indoor outdoor flow and having

728
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,840
lots of connection to the
outside.

729
00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:18,000
There's a lot of things that are
potential barriers.

730
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,160
If you're just, bang, hearing
about passive House and air

731
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:25,920
tightness and, you know, highly
insulated envelopes, it can be

732
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,640
quite strange.
And I think, yeah, I feel this

733
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,600
is something that I talked to
architects a little bit about

734
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,760
who are in the tent, that
sometimes we just have to be a

735
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,240
little a little bit empathetic
and and realize that it might

736
00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:40,360
take a few conversations for
someone to come around to the

737
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,320
idea that passive houses may be
a good thing.

738
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,200
Yeah, yeah, it's a slow burn.
It's a slow.

739
00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:47,960
Burn, I hope it doesn't always
take two years.

740
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,960
I'm a slow learner, so and
that's part of the great work

741
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,800
that Zach and the team at the
accelerator doing are literally

742
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,120
to accelerate that process
because we don't have that long,

743
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,600
we can't spend 2 years
convincing everyone.

744
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:04,280
So a lot of what we're about is
how do we condense that process

745
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,360
down so that we can get people
on board as you know, and

746
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,120
faster.
So it doesn't take people as

747
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,400
long as it took me.
Yeah, I mean, as soon as I found

748
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,160
out about bloat testing, I
jumped on it.

749
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,440
As soon as I found out every
single step along the way, I've

750
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,880
jumped on, you know, building an
earthship and building a tiny

751
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,400
house and finding out about
ballad or testing and going to

752
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,040
that conference.
Yeah, You know, it's been a

753
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,760
real, you know, I didn't waste
any time.

754
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,360
Blow bloat or tests are like
experiencing passive houses that

755
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,480
it's really hard to convince
someone to do the first Test,

756
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,240
but when when they've had a
test, they just want more.

757
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,320
I've had that experience with
builders so many times that you

758
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,360
offer them a free test and like,
Oh no, it's going to disrupt our

759
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,360
worksite.
What is this?

760
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,400
You know what, what if I fail?
But as soon as you do 1:00, what

761
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:54,600
if I fail?
When can you come back?

762
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:55,880
That's a big one.
Can you do another one?

763
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,280
Can you test all those buildings
over?

764
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,040
There, I love it when I yeah,
you do a bloater test for a

765
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,400
builder for the first time and
they're like, whoa, yeah, I

766
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,160
never thought about that.
Yeah.

767
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,560
Or you show them the, the, the
thermal imaging camera and

768
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,920
they're like, what?
You know, it's just exposure.

769
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:16,760
The first step.
Maybe I should start giving away

770
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:24,280
blowout or tests.
OK, so let's, let's look, let's

771
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,200
turn to the future.
You guys are quite future

772
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,520
focused, chaps.
What is, from your vantage

773
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,800
point, what emerging ideas,
technologies or trends excite

774
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,720
you the most when it comes to
transforming how we design and

775
00:41:35,720 --> 00:41:40,560
construct buildings?
I would say that what it is

776
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:45,600
exciting me right now is the
growth in the use of natural

777
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:50,680
materials in the construction
and and figuring out how to move

778
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:56,000
that from sort of what might be
seen as a hippie dippie space to

779
00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:00,960
like a standardized, this works
in standard construction methods

780
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,000
kind of way.
So I think about the straw

781
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:08,800
panels that are becoming more
common here in North America and

782
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,880
the potential for it.
So that that has a lot of

783
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,800
different benefits, including
obviously lower toxicity, but

784
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,720
also going back to carbon.
Straw is a great way to

785
00:42:17,720 --> 00:42:20,200
sequester and store carbon in
buildings.

786
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:26,640
Yes, so moving away from foams
and toward its straws is a cool,

787
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:29,200
cool move forward.
I've been learning from the

788
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:33,320
folks at the Healthy Materials
Lab about natural paints and

789
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,640
moving away from acrylic paint.
I just, I just heard today from

790
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,880
Ben Bogey, who was a guest on
our he's a builder and he was a

791
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,240
guest within the collective for
an interview with with Michael

792
00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:46,320
Anguy, the founder of Passivos
Accelerator.

793
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:52,520
So Ben was talking about how our
move away from VOC's went to I

794
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:57,280
think it was SVO CS.
And what is SSS is not slow, but

795
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:01,520
essentially, essentially it's
away from one product that that

796
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,600
has these volatile organic
compounds that are that released

797
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,800
a bunch of bad crap right away
and are really bad for the

798
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,280
people who are applying the
paint to a different kind of

799
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,720
paint where it kind of it slowly
releases the bad crap.

800
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,800
And so instead of killing the
people who are painting, it

801
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,000
kills the people who are inside
the building.

802
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,400
That's the way that was Ben's
terminology.

803
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,960
Just kicking the kicking the can
down the road a bit.

804
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,440
Right, right, right, exactly.
So so move moving to the natural

805
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,760
paints that they actually kind
of calcify as well over time.

806
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,560
Like that's that's another
another.

807
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,840
I I think that why I've been
excited over the last several

808
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,880
years to see this shift.
And you know, like when I was

809
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,880
first writing about and writing
blogs and, you know, showing

810
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,120
photos and stuff of, of
projects, One of the first

811
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:52,680
projects that we, that hammering
hand did in Oregon, you know, it

812
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,640
just was using a massive amount
of amount of foam and it was

813
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,720
building a building on top of a
bunch of Geo foam.

814
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:00,760
And you know, foam has its
place.

815
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,200
I'm not saying that it, that
it's it, you know, that it's

816
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,320
always a bad idea, but it was
something that we celebrated.

817
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:08,640
Like I celebrated.
It was like, look, there's this

818
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,920
truckload of foam that just
arrived on the construction

819
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:12,320
site.
And now I'm like so much.

820
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,280
Insulation.
Yeah, right, right.

821
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,080
It's so much insulation is this
is, this is super cool.

822
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,520
It's exciting.
And now I think about like, you

823
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,760
know, all the, you know, there's
a lot of upfront carbon involved

824
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,240
in that and chemicals and stuff.
Chemicals so.

825
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,080
It burns.
It's been, yeah, yeah, right.

826
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,720
And it burns, right.
So there's this, I think this

827
00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:38,280
transition going on and you know
we're, I think we're just really

828
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:42,960
dialing in on of what products
can be durable and healthy and

829
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,440
easily usable in standard
practice.

830
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,160
And I think that's a great move.
Yep, Yep.

831
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,800
Even in SA we've had, I did some
work recently on a straw bare

832
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,720
house and on a hemp crate house.
So we're having some alternative

833
00:44:56,720 --> 00:44:59,480
technologies appearing here a
bit more, which is great.

834
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,920
Awesome.
How about you, Matthew?

835
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,080
At the other end of the
spectrum, I I'm excited about

836
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,240
some of the emerging technology,
particularly around software,

837
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:15,440
which is enabling designers to
do really iterative design early

838
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,760
on.
Because the the trick with

839
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,800
making any building perform
better cost effectively is

840
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,520
getting that stuff included into
the design as early as possible.

841
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:29,600
And in my, my day job, I'm doing
a lot of encouraging designers

842
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,120
to do energy modelling.
And that's at the core of

843
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,720
Passive House is using the
Passive House money package or

844
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:37,120
whatever flavour of energy model
that you're doing.

845
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,960
And sometimes that gets left
till the end as a sort of a

846
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,600
check instead of an actual
iterative design process.

847
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,280
And I remember we've talked to
people way back starting to

848
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,480
think about, well, how can,
because a lot of that's just

849
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,800
number crunching and it's fairly
manual work putting in geometry.

850
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:56,760
So I'm excited and I expect to
see ways of dramatically

851
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,040
speeding that process up so that
we're getting lots of parametric

852
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:04,400
design and parametric analysis
using software to figure out the

853
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:08,640
best building for a particular
location for a particular use

854
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:12,240
case with some other parameters
around, you know, linking in

855
00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:14,280
quantity surveying.
So you're looking at the pricing

856
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,600
materials and products and also
incorporating things like carbon

857
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,360
and other environmental impacts
into that design and just

858
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,080
running a whole bunch of
simulations to figure out what

859
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,760
the best outcome is.
And I don't see that being very

860
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,480
far away.
That is really going to put some

861
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,520
powerful tools in designers
hands to be able to, to get

862
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,720
these answers.
The, the most exciting thing

863
00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:37,480
about that is, is going back to
the finance.

864
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:42,000
It's all about optimizing
design, including upfront cost

865
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,720
and then also projecting out
operating cost and, and

866
00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:47,600
benefits.
So, you know, I'm, I'm excited

867
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:51,720
about the potential of, of
software to speed up that

868
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:54,520
process and also to get better
outcomes.

869
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,360
So you're, you're thinking along
the lines of, because I've

870
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,760
already got energy software
we've got in Australia, we've

871
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:05,000
got the, the star rating
software that we use for and

872
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,920
building code compliance.
We've got, you know, carbon

873
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,280
calculation tools.
We've already, we've got survey

874
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,560
quantity surveying software.
Are you thinking along the lines

875
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,040
of something that incorporates
all of those things into one?

876
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,680
Yeah.
And, and the use of, of machine

877
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,280
learning and AI and, and, you
know, incorporating some of the

878
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,640
things that is just changing so
rapidly now in terms of language

879
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,440
models.
I don't see it being far away

880
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:32,920
that using some of that similar
technology to get computers to

881
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,960
do some of that hard work of
running lots of analysis on, on

882
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,800
early stage concept plans to do
that modeling, because the

883
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:41,680
model, the modeling calculations
are there.

884
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:46,720
PHPP is so robust as a, as a
model, but there's still quite a

885
00:47:46,720 --> 00:47:50,880
lot of manual input required.
So yeah, I think that there's

886
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,120
definitely, it's going to be
some pretty exciting changes

887
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:58,520
coming from using AI to have
better design outcomes.

888
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:01,560
For sure, for sure.
And if you're an architect or

889
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,400
designer out there who is not
already doing energy modelling

890
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:08,200
iteratively through your design
process, then I recommend that

891
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,560
you learn something about that
or or get your energy assessor

892
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:15,280
involved in your in your project
at concept stage.

893
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,240
Absolutely to avoid nasty
surprises down the track with

894
00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:20,480
the building code changes that
are happening here in Australia.

895
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:22,760
And despite the fact that it's
now paused for a while, that you

896
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,240
are still much better off
getting your energy iterations

897
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:30,160
started off at concept stage.
So if you have any questions

898
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,000
about that, please feel free to
reach out and ask me.

899
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:33,400
But that is definitely a good
idea.

900
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:37,400
So if you could Fast forward 20
years, what does a reimagined

901
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:38,720
building industry look like to
you?

902
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:43,320
Well, following on from what I
was saying about software, I

903
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,240
think, you know, we're seeing a
pretty rapid escalation of

904
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:51,360
what's what's possible with,
with AI Don't really love that

905
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:56,760
term, but I think that the, the
computing power is, has got to

906
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:01,480
be of, of benefit.
I'm seeing a lot of convergence

907
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:03,840
around the place and we, it's
interesting talking to people in

908
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,000
California, then also talking to
people in Australia.

909
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,240
We've got some very similar
risks there about things like

910
00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:11,560
fires, like overheating
analysis.

911
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:15,240
Eventually we all come to the
realization that that physics

912
00:49:15,240 --> 00:49:17,320
works everywhere in the same
way.

913
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:21,840
So I don't know.
I know that there's people like

914
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:26,000
to do their own thing in their
own space, but I see that

915
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,720
there's a lot of scope for not
reinventing the wheel and

916
00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:33,720
sharing as much as we can and
making them the best of being

917
00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:36,600
able to connect with each other
and share ideas and not having

918
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,880
to reinvent the wheel.
I'm hoping that happens.

919
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,920
I'm not.
You're hoping that humans get

920
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,680
out of their silos, is that?
Well, yeah, I just, we had this,

921
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,800
this this weird thing about
repeating the same mistakes.

922
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,480
There's multiple examples of
that in the building industry,

923
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,440
but I hope we can sort of break
out of that.

924
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,720
And that's one of the great
things about having a global

925
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:56,560
community like Reimagined
Buildings.

926
00:49:57,240 --> 00:49:59,520
Did you see that Matt Risinger
was in Australia earlier this

927
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:00,800
year?
I did, Yep.

928
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,520
He did a video.
Did you see his video?

929
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:06,920
Well, I saw him.
Working.

930
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:11,040
Around with with Dan Jacobs and,
you know, playing with tapes.

931
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:16,480
Yeah, well, Matt did a video
after his visit to Australia

932
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,640
talking about the abysmal state
of construction in Australia,

933
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,360
talking about how we are
building here the same way they

934
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,720
were building in the US in the
1970s.

935
00:50:25,720 --> 00:50:27,840
So talk about repeating the same
mistakes.

936
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:31,120
You know, there's lessons out
there from overseas.

937
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,240
Yeah.
So I would hope that our vision

938
00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:37,800
for construction in New Zealand
and Australia would be better

939
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:42,080
than present day North America.
Yeah, yeah.

940
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:45,240
And your massive impact ideas,
Zach, you know, let's, how do

941
00:50:45,240 --> 00:50:48,200
we, how do we accelerate to use
another one of the terms from

942
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,600
you guys, how do we accelerate
the industry here to Fast

943
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:55,520
forward past all of the crap
that we are currently walking

944
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,320
straight into and get to
something better.

945
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,800
And, and move past all of the
fear and the, the fear of change

946
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,280
that we're facing here.
And the, the lack of knowledge.

947
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:09,360
You know, this is if I had to,
if I had to put my $0.02 worth

948
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,600
in for the biggest challenge
that the industry faces, it's,

949
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,200
it's just education of the, of
the industry itself.

950
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,240
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, I think I think

951
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:23,440
unfortunately there at least at
least there are now that's

952
00:51:23,720 --> 00:51:26,720
somewhat counterbalanced by the
fact that there are good

953
00:51:26,720 --> 00:51:30,160
examples elsewhere, at least,
you know, like and I think,

954
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:33,880
yeah, I witnessed that that
whole, you know, Brussels

955
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,760
adopted pass process code in
2015.

956
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:41,640
And and before that it had a
bunch of policies that that led

957
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:45,560
up to that the Icebox challenge
was part of actually if people

958
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,800
who know the Icebox challenge,
that was the mark a marketing

959
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,360
campaign part, partly as part of
that whole deal.

960
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,320
And that there was a pilgrimage
of people from North America who

961
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,680
went to to the Brussels region
and and saw that they brought

962
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:00,440
back their learning.
And one of the first, that first

963
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,480
multifamily building built in
Portland, OR was by a developer

964
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:07,760
who was on that trip.
But also importantly, the code

965
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,480
progress that happened in the
city of Vancouver that then

966
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,680
inspired the British Columbia
that all was like it from from

967
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:18,480
that experience and that rippled
over to Massachusetts and to New

968
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,280
York and I and the Buildings of
Excellence program and I sort of

969
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:29,640
so so there's a there's the
possibility now to to say look

970
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,400
at that.
This is where we can leap to

971
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,920
that, I think didn't it didn't
exist in the 70s because we were

972
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,520
just like come, you know, like
they were figuring it out

973
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,280
somewhere in northern, like in
Canada and.

974
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:43,600
But it wasn't it.
Yeah, it wasn't our.

975
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:45,640
Exactly, but we don't have.
To do that, at least that's some

976
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,400
good news, right?
Right, we don't have to do that,

977
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,640
but we still are.
Yeah.

978
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,040
Anyway, reimagined industry for
you Zach.

979
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,200
What does that look like?
Yeah.

980
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,240
Well, I mean, one of the things
that really struck me when I was

981
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:05,000
first learning about Passive
House at Hammer at Hand, which

982
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,840
is a, you know, it's a company
where they took fine craft

983
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:13,440
really seriously, was this idea
that Passive House was really

984
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:17,240
about building better and about
returning to getting serious

985
00:53:17,240 --> 00:53:19,360
about craft.
And that's something that really

986
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:23,960
resonates with craftspeople.
So I think that there's an

987
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:28,480
element of, so my, my hope that
in 20 years is that there is,

988
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,960
that's there is a celebration of
craft and the connection between

989
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:38,040
craft and building science and
also a move toward natural

990
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,040
materials.
We've been, you know, fine craft

991
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,680
has been part of it has been
drawing on natural materials

992
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,840
forever.
That there's that and that

993
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:50,120
there's also a reinvigoration of
the crafts of crafts of the

994
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:52,400
trades, which is that's a
challenge.

995
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,880
I don't know if that's the same
kind of challenge in Australia

996
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,880
and New Zealand, but here it's
there are fewer and fewer trades

997
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:02,760
and more and more need for
skilled trades.

998
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:07,440
So I think that they're
reimagined building industry is

999
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:17,040
one that is proud of craft and
celebrated as a really like

1000
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:25,480
really attractive industry to
get into and, and just elevate,

1001
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:27,520
you know, a little bit elevated
compare.

1002
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,760
I think there's a, you know, we
have this and I, you know, I, I

1003
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:35,600
as a parent, I'm guilty of this,
this tendency to really, you

1004
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:41,200
know, put on a pedestal the four
year college degree and we need

1005
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:45,800
to be also putting on a pedestal
great builders and electricians

1006
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,520
and plumbers and all the people
who make these buildings happen.

1007
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:52,920
I work with a bunch of excellent
builders who take, you know,

1008
00:54:53,240 --> 00:54:55,760
their career extremely
seriously.

1009
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:59,120
And a trade is a an excellent
career.

1010
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:03,000
And if you go into a trade, then
you then you should get very,

1011
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,800
very good at that trade.
You know, it's not something

1012
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:10,200
that you do because you can't
think of anything else to do.

1013
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:11,640
I mean, maybe maybe that is the
case.

1014
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,160
Maybe you fall into it and and
you end up with a brilliant

1015
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:19,080
career, but I think that if
you're going to be a Carpenter

1016
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:21,320
then be a really, really good
one.

1017
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,040
Absolutely.
Or if you're going to be a

1018
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:26,400
builder, be a really, really
good one, you know, excel at

1019
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:28,800
that.
Throw your life and soul into it

1020
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:34,000
just like you would if you were
an architect or a doctoral or

1021
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,400
any other career.
It's just like any other career.

1022
00:55:37,240 --> 00:55:40,480
And not not only that, you're
messing with the contributing to

1023
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:44,520
people's lives, you know, their
entire lives.

1024
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:48,480
So it's not something to, it's
not something to take lightly.

1025
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:55,520
I suspect with with the the AI
thing that we're all going to be

1026
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:59,000
facing and living through that,
that the trades, the trades may

1027
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:03,120
be feeling pretty good about
their choices in, in careers.

1028
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,280
Yeah, yeah, at least until at
least until the wrote until,

1029
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:09,480
until the AI goes into to really
agile robots.

1030
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:11,400
But anyway, that's a different
podcast.

1031
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:13,560
I think we're starting to see
that trend.

1032
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:17,640
I have heard of a renewed
interest in, in vocational

1033
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:22,160
qualifications because people
are, you know, 18 years old

1034
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:24,880
saying why would I, why would I
become a lawyer when, you know,

1035
00:56:25,720 --> 00:56:29,880
a lot of that work is going to
be going to be done, you know,

1036
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:32,800
by chapter BT fairly quickly, if
not already.

1037
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,440
So yeah, I'm definitely
encouraging my kids to to look

1038
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,960
at plumbing and and carpentry
and becoming an electrician.

1039
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:44,920
Yeah, smart.
If I could go back, if I had to

1040
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,840
redo my career, I reckon I would
do a carpentry apprenticeship.

1041
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:49,360
Absolutely.
I think if I could go back to

1042
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:52,800
being a kid, that's what I would
do because I just love, I always

1043
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:56,960
loved, you know, making things.
I always did the woodwork at

1044
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,360
school.
I love being out on site now.

1045
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,080
Yeah, I think it's AI, think
it's a fantastic career choice.

1046
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:05,440
Some of the best conference
presentations, I the most

1047
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:09,480
memorable presentations I find
are from builders who are very

1048
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,360
nervous about speaking because
it's not their natural space.

1049
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:13,880
They'd rather be out on a, on a
building site.

1050
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:17,480
But they just give these really
authentic presentations about

1051
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:21,120
being a little bit skeptical at
1st and then getting into it and

1052
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:24,400
then at the end being really,
really proud of, of what they've

1053
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:26,960
built.
And I also, there's been a

1054
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,800
couple of interactions I've had
with, with more senior builders

1055
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,640
who started building, did it for
a few years, started to get a

1056
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:35,560
little bit worn down by the
industry.

1057
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,200
And then for whatever reason,
they, they got the opportunity

1058
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:39,960
to work on a passive house
project.

1059
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:42,320
Often that comes from an
educated client.

1060
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,880
And you see that they're
suddenly reinvigorated and they

1061
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,080
sort of remember why they
started building in the 1st

1062
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:49,680
place.
And they're talking about this

1063
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:51,840
project that they've just done
with that pride.

1064
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,680
I think there's a lot to that of
of.

1065
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:56,360
That's a really interesting
point.

1066
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:58,440
Yeah, Matthew.
And it's, I've had that a couple

1067
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:02,480
of times and I find it really
inspiring to see these builders

1068
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:06,040
that would otherwise have just
kind of retired and been a bit

1069
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:08,520
dark about the the whole
experience.

1070
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:09,480
And they get.
They do.

1071
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:12,880
This new lease of life and, and,
and I think they suddenly

1072
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:18,320
realized just how impactful they
can be in a positive way and

1073
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:20,440
really literally change people's
lives.

1074
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:22,480
And it's very, very cool to see
that.

1075
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,040
Yeah, I completely agree with
that message.

1076
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:28,360
And I think a lot of the
builders I'm talking about that

1077
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:32,520
are getting really good at their
jobs are the ones that are in

1078
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:36,280
this space because there's
something to be really good at,

1079
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,320
whereas you've just building
building code level houses.

1080
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:43,520
So is everyone that you know,
How do you really differentiate

1081
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:46,520
yourself from others in in that
area?

1082
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:50,240
And I know it's, it's a big,
it's a big leap for an architect

1083
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:54,400
or, or a builder to, to put a
line in the sand and say, this

1084
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:56,600
is, this is what I'm going to do
going forward.

1085
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:02,080
I'm not going to build stocks
and I'm not going to design just

1086
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,480
a code.
I'm now pitching myself as a

1087
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:09,160
passive house designer or a
passive house builder, more or

1088
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,480
less exclusively.
That can be a scary thing to do

1089
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:14,520
particularly, you know, we're
finding ourselves again in a

1090
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:16,640
time when there's not a lot of
building activity going on.

1091
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,760
But those that have done that,
it's, it's, it's really

1092
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:23,040
encouraging to see that people
making a business and being very

1093
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:27,440
clear about who they will work
for and what they will build as

1094
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:29,800
much as what they won't stand
for anymore.

1095
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:32,840
And it's a viable business for
so many people.

1096
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,960
When I was first getting exposed
to pass pass at at hammer in

1097
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:41,240
hand, the late co-owner and Co
founder of Sam Hagerman, who is

1098
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:43,680
a lifelong builder.
I describe pass pass as the

1099
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:46,560
unified field theory of of
construction.

1100
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:48,960
Like he just felt like it
brought together all these

1101
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,960
different disparate elements for
him and combined it with his

1102
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:58,240
focus on really precision craft
that that it just speaks to

1103
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:00,640
exactly what you're you're
talking about Matthew the.

1104
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:07,160
That sense of reinvigoration and
excitement about the work.

1105
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,120
I think we've got an industry
that's kind of going into

1106
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:12,560
different directions.
We've got one part of the

1107
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:15,520
industry that's that is
excelling and going down that

1108
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:18,240
rabbit hole and learning all of
these things about healthy homes

1109
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:20,560
and passive house.
And then you've got another part

1110
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:23,000
of the industry where, you know,
you've got fresh apprentice

1111
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,040
carpentry apprentices who are
now working on steel frame

1112
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:31,120
buildings because you know that
that's where the industry is

1113
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,560
going.
Steel is cheaper, it's quicker.

1114
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:36,600
It's, you know, all these are
the benefits to it as apparently

1115
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:40,960
in the industry.
So you've got this separation

1116
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:45,960
happening, I guess in in certain
parts of the industry that is

1117
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:49,240
kind of going in two different
directions.

1118
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:53,120
Yeah, going to try and bring
everyone over, bring everyone

1119
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:58,240
over to the to the bright side,
not the dark side.

1120
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:03,960
So for people who want to be
part of your movement, your this

1121
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:07,720
whole gamut of things you've got
going on the podcast, the

1122
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,360
reimagined buildings events and
then the collective, how do

1123
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:16,000
they, how do they get involved?
Oh yeah, do they get that right,

1124
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:18,000
by the way?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1125
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:20,280
Definitely get that right.
There's a lot there.

1126
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:24,320
There's a lot there.
Well, the come to a pass bus

1127
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:28,480
accelerator live on a Wednesday.
That what is that's Thursday for

1128
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:29,960
you in Australia and New
Zealand.

1129
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:31,680
Yeah, what time is that here in
Australia?

1130
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:34,160
Yeah, it's not.
Is it like 3:00 AM?

1131
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:35,360
Because that's often the
barrier.

1132
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:37,920
It used to be, yeah, yeah.
That it's that it is a barrier.

1133
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:40,400
Yeah.
So I mean, I engage with pass

1134
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:44,720
pass Australia, you know, you
know where where you are and

1135
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:46,000
then also connect.
Yeah.

1136
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,560
I mean, that's why we build
built a resource that reimagine

1137
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:51,840
buildings collectives to help
people to connect.

1138
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:55,440
I think that the three line here
is that, you know, everybody

1139
01:01:55,440 --> 01:02:00,680
listening probably has some
thing in their mind about the

1140
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:04,080
next step they could be taking.
You know, I think it's really

1141
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,720
that what exactly that is, is,
is different for everyone.

1142
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:11,760
But there's maybe this, this,
this leap or this stretch that

1143
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:13,960
they could be taking.
And I think what's important to

1144
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,960
recognize is that probably there
are a lot of people who have

1145
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,680
taken that step already.
And it's really important for us

1146
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:24,920
to seek community so that we can
learn from the from those that

1147
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:28,160
have done this already so that
we don't have to be repeating

1148
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:29,840
the mistakes.
I mean, kind of at that micro

1149
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:32,120
level of the Mac, you know, we
were talking at the macro level

1150
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:34,520
about the entire industries from
repeating mistakes.

1151
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:37,440
But I think that that that's
true for people as well.

1152
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:43,280
And I think that that one of the
kind of theories of change or

1153
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:45,800
organizing principles behind the
work that we're doing at the

1154
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:49,520
accelerator and, and the
collective is that when people

1155
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:52,480
share knowledge, it makes it
easier for us to do this work.

1156
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:56,280
And it needs to become easier
and cheaper and faster for us to

1157
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:59,400
do, to do the work and we do.
And that happens because we're

1158
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:00,760
sharing information with one
another.

1159
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:04,360
So I think, I think that it's
like, you know, identify those

1160
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:07,560
things that the those couple of
things that you could be doing

1161
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:11,120
that next steps you could be
taking to, you know, where there

1162
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:15,480
there and then find community to
help you take those steps.

1163
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:17,720
We're happy to be that community
for you at the Reimagine

1164
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:19,040
Buildings Collective, for sure.
Yeah.

1165
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:23,120
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's,
there's plenty of communities

1166
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:26,240
around and yours is definitely,
definitely a really strong,

1167
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:27,000
inspiring one.
I.

1168
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:29,600
Think.
It's all right, gentlemen.

1169
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:32,160
I think that brings us to the
end of our conversation today.

1170
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:37,040
But there is one question I ask
everybody at the end of my at

1171
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:39,560
the end of our conversations,
and that is out of everything

1172
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,320
that you've learnt in your
career, what is the one thing

1173
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:45,640
you want the listener to know?
Even if it's not what we've

1174
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:48,120
covered today, what's one thing
you want them to know?

1175
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:55,480
For me, I often tell architects
and builders, people in the

1176
01:03:55,480 --> 01:04:00,280
industry about how impactful
they are because we, we spend

1177
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:03,520
around 90% of our time inside
buildings.

1178
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:08,520
You know, I firmly believe that
builders and architects have

1179
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:11,920
more impact on people's health
than doctors and nurses.

1180
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,240
And that can be both positive
and negative.

1181
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:22,480
It's their choice, but it's an
incredibly impactful industry to

1182
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:25,280
be in and that can be very, very
empowering.

1183
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:27,000
Right on.
You're here.

1184
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:35,400
So I would say that what I have
learned is that the climate

1185
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:42,200
crisis is daunting and scary and
dangerous, and we have really

1186
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:46,480
important, powerful solutions to
the crisis and that when we

1187
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:51,240
scale those solutions up some,
you know, some astonishing

1188
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:55,320
things could happen.
So I take again again back to

1189
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:58,120
this notion of people learning
from one another that the whole

1190
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:01,480
story of the solar industry and
that and that, you know, mind

1191
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:05,760
blowing decrease in solar, other
cost of solar power that's been

1192
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:09,800
going on and continues to go on
that is leading to uptake of a

1193
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:11,080
solar deployment around the
world.

1194
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:15,360
That is absolutely exponential.
In fact, in the last two years,

1195
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:19,600
we doubled the solar capacity
around the world.

1196
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,560
So all of the solar panels, what
have they started that like in

1197
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:26,880
the run up to the space space
age, right?

1198
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:32,160
That whole time until two years
ago, we just built as much in

1199
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:35,760
the last two years, right?
So it's nuts what's going on.

1200
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:39,640
And that's happening because of
innovation, people figuring out

1201
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:41,240
then learning curves.
It's called the experience

1202
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:42,880
curves.
It's like there's a, there's a

1203
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:45,720
Swanson's Law, Wright's Law,
different names for it, but

1204
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:49,160
essentially every time we double
the deployment of, of solar

1205
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:51,640
panels, the cost of those panels
goes down by a certain

1206
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:53,320
percentage.
Maybe it's like 25%.

1207
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:55,520
It depends on, on, on how you
look at it.

1208
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:58,320
And that, you know, drives more
uptake.

1209
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:02,080
We can apply those lessons.
I mean, buildings are different

1210
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:05,800
from solar panels, but we can
apply those lessons to our work

1211
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:08,920
in buildings as well.
So kind of following up on what

1212
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:13,040
Matthew is saying, we have
agency and power to make a real

1213
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:17,400
difference in buildings and
let's recognize it and and do

1214
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:21,360
what we can in the time that we
have to, to make a difference.

1215
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:23,680
Excellent.
Thank you guys both for joining

1216
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:27,600
me today and for contributing
your expensive knowledge and

1217
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:30,360
enthusiasm to to my podcast and
to the industry.

1218
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:32,720
Really appreciate your time.
Pleasure.

1219
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:34,040
Thank you.
Thank you.

1220
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:38,800
How good was that?
Those two guys, Matt and Zach,

1221
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:41,880
are huge voices in the Passive
House and better building space.

1222
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:45,280
So I encourage you to sign up to
the Reimagine Buildings

1223
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:48,480
Collective, follow the Passive
House podcast, and go and learn

1224
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:50,040
from these two incredible
people.

1225
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:53,960
That is all from me for now.
If you are enjoying the content

1226
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:56,400
so far, I'd love it if you throw
the podcast to follow.

1227
01:06:56,400 --> 01:07:00,440
If you're not already, leave a
review and I will see you again

1228
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:02,880
in two weeks.
Until then, happy healthy

1229
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:03,280
building.