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Dr. Rachel Docekal of the Hanley Foundation joins the show to discuss the evolution of addiction treatment and why early intervention is so critical. Discover modern evidence-based care models, practical communication strategies for parents, and how to spot behavioral red flags early.
In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Rachel Docekal from the Hanley Foundation to discuss the evolution of addiction treatment and the critical importance of early intervention.
Key Topics Discussed:
- The Evolution of Care: How treatment models have shifted from the 1980s to today’s evidence-based practices, including the importance of gender-specific programs and standalone mental health support.
- Prevention vs. Education: Moving beyond the "Just Say No" campaigns of the past to provide young people with actual coping skills and the confidence to resist peer pressure,.
- Safety & Communication: Practical, actionable advice for parents, including using "code words" and "maybe later" techniques to help children escape high-pressure, unsafe situations.
- Recognizing Red Flags: Why parents should trust their intuition when they notice behavioral changes in their children—such as changes in hygiene, friend groups, or daily routines—and why direct, honest conversation is essential for safety.
- Finding the Right Help: Dr. Docekal explains that Hanley Foundation serves as a resource for families nationwide, even if they aren't treating a patient at their facility, by directing them toward quality, reputable care in their local areas.
Voiceover
The addiction podcast, point of no return.
Joanie Sigal
So, Rachel Dosickle, I said it, right?
Rachel Docekal
Yeah.
Rachel Docekal
Yeah.
Joanie Sigal
Okay, good.
Joanie Sigal
Thank you so much for being with us today.I think that you have a lot of valuable information to share with our listeners about, you know, people who have someone in their lives who is suffering from, I say addiction, you can say substance use disorder, however we term it. We know what we're talking about. But you are part of something called the Hanley foundation, and tell us a little bit about what that is.
Rachel Docekal
Sure. So the Hanley foundation, we are headquartered in West Palm Beach, Florida, has been around for nearly 45 years.It was started by Jack and Mary Jane Hanley, but it really was a community based project from the beginning. We are still a nonprofit today, and we are focused on all things addiction. And we do say addiction.I know that we hear behavioral health, I know that we hear substance use disorder, but we are really focused on addiction and mental health and the challenges of individuals who are experiencing one or both. We provide everything from evidence based youth prevention that helps educate kids about making good choices.And, you know, really what we want to do with that prevention work is keep kids from using drugs and alcohol or at least delay that first use of alcohol until 21 or beyond. And then we have.
Joanie Sigal
And I would just add in alcohol or marijuana.
Rachel Docekal
Or marijuana. Thank you. Thank you. We, Golly, we should touch on that for sure. And then we have here in West Palm Beach, Florida, an amazing treatment facility.So we sit on about 14 acres of botanical gardens, and we are one of those pioneering organization organizations that has helped shape what is best practice, practice in treating addictions and other mental health challenges here in this country as well as internationally.
Joanie Sigal
That's great. And you made a very good point in terms of education.And I've said this many times on the podcast that I believe if we educate the young people, not just dogmatically saying drugs are bad, don't do them, say no, but actually educating them on why not and definitely why not when they're young. And I think that kids are not stupid. And I think that if we really educate them, they will be able to stand up to peer, peer pressure.And when the situation arises, they'll make the right decision.Because as I'm sure you know, in what you've been doing and what we know, you know, starting off on drugs or doing drugs or being addicted to drugs, it's really like Russian roulette. And you don't know which of those hits or which of those attempts to get high is gonna be the last one. And you're gone.And for so many young people today who are just trying something and it's maybe it's got fentanyl in it and they don't know. And you know, parents are just devastated because their child was not an addict. They just went to a party and tried something and that was the end.And yeah, anyway, so I just feel like education is, is absolutely key. So I'm glad that your foundation focuses on that.When you say that you've like set some of the standards, what are some of the, the things that you, you, your foundation focuses on or your treatment center focuses on.
Rachel Docekal
So there really has been an evolution in treating addiction. Most people are aware of decades of the big book and the like.But what they don't realize is that in the, really in the 70s and 80s is when what we know of today as, as addiction treatment started, a lot of it emanated out of Rutgers University as well as at that time a very few very excellent treatment centers across the country. So Hazelden for example, today known as Hazelden. Betty Ford was one, Hanley was another.There was an organization called Father Martin's Ashley that today is, is known as, as in there in the Baltimore, Maryland area. And Hanley as I said, was one of those organizations. So for example, gender separate treatments.And we know that outcomes for both men and women are better when they're separated and when they are not together in treatment. Hanley was one of the pioneers behind that.Hanley started evidence based youth prevention in the late 90s when just say no and all of the things that you were referring to earlier. And as somebody who is about to turn 57, I can tell you that my whole high school was filled with just say no.And those very well meaning campaigns that we now know really did not work at all well.
Joanie Sigal
Because let me just tell you something. Tell a young person no, what are they going to do? That is like a red flag that means yes.
Voiceover
It's like a challenge.
Joanie Sigal
You tell me no. Yeah, no. That means I have a one year old granddaughter and the look on her face is like, you told me no,.
Rachel Docekal
I'm going to do it. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Older adult treatments. So Hanley was the first organization in the country to ever identify that older adults.And what is an older adult? We're asked that all the time. It's not really something, something that's defined by age.I think that we think of it as maybe 65 year olds, but we have patients in the older adult program who are younger and then we have older patients who are in with men or women.But it is really that set of psychological and physical barriers that keep this population from relating to younger populations or getting well when they're, when they're with populations. We were one of the first organizations that introduced what is called an executive program.We don't talk much about our Headwaters program because it is very, very select. We only have eight beds.You know, the program is heavily curated and many times we have somebody in there who's tremendously famous, very wealthy and the. But we know that that population has a very different outlook on family, for example.So, you know, the closest relationship in somebody's life could be their trust officer versus their spouse or their child. And then mental health. We have 10 standalone mental health beds.And Hanley foundation was one of the first organizations that first identified that there were challenges happening with adolescent challenges that we now know are related to smartphones and social media and the like. We were one of the first organizations that was starting to do work with young people on suicide.And then certainly we were one of the first organizations that has standalone primary mental health beds. And you know, we were doing co occurring work for many, many years. We weren't doing just standalone addiction work, we were doing co occur work.But then we recognize that, you know, we needed these, these standalone mental health beds as well. So that's just the sampling of some of the pioneering work we've done.
Joanie Sigal
That's awesome. And you know, you, you made a point and you cannot separate really mental health from addiction.And the reason why, as far as I'm concerned, that's the truth, is because drugs or alcohol are the solution to a problem.And the problem is some sort of a mental health problem, whether it's childhood trauma, whether it's adult trauma, whether it's, I don't know, bullying in school. I mean, there are all sorts of things that can affect someone's emotional and mental well being.And when the emotional and mental well being goes south or gets off the rails, you know, a glass of wine helps make that go away, or a puff on marijuana helps make it go away. The problem becoming that when you depend on that and you can't stop, then you're looking at addiction. That's where you're at.But we know from all of the people we've interviewed that the addiction is the solution to an earlier problem. And so many people focus on the addiction being the problem. It's the solution to an earlier problem.And if you don't get what the earlier problem was or the earlier mental or emotional upset or trauma or what have you, you can't, you can't handle the addiction. It's not going to go away.
Rachel Docekal
Yeah, yeah. You are 100% right. 100% Right. And that is what our treatment program focuses on.It focuses on whatever that trauma or traumas doesn't have to be just one thing. You know, deal with that. And then we have to reteach, retrain, however you want to talk about it, people to cope.Because folks who have been relying on drugs and alcohol, they don't inherently have those coping skills that you have or I have. Listen, we all have bad days, we all have traumas that happen to us.But the question is, do I turn to that glass of wine, for example, that you're talking about to help me cope or do I feel those feelings and deal with whatever the particular situation is.
Joanie Sigal
Exactly. Or do you take a walk or do you talk to your minister or do you have someone you can talk to?I think that, and I think also that when you're dealing with younger people who have become addicted at early teens and it's, it's scary to me the number of people we talked to who started at 12 or started at 13, and my oldest granddaughter is 13 and that's just like, that's terrifying. I'm fairly certain she has a grounding and she won't go that route. But just to imagine that is, is very, very scary.And when it's young people like that, they haven't learned coping mechanisms. Perhaps an adult has forgotten or has fallen back on alcohol or drugs to cope, but they, at one point they knew how to cope.And so you have to kind of get them back to that. I think.
Rachel Docekal
Yeah, I will say that our evidence based youth prevention programs, especially in the younger years. So what am I defining as younger? I would say middle school and younger.We're not talking about drugs and alcohol really at all with elementary school students. And if we do talk about it with middle school students, we're talking about it differently than your listeners may think.We're really focusing on coping skills.And part of those coping skills is helping young people to understand really that many fewer young people are drinking and doing drugs than in the past. That, you know, okay, maybe this one person is using peer pressure to try to get you to drink or to use.But the vast majority of students, 85% here in Florida, are not drinking and they're not using drugs. And sometimes it's just that perspective change.Other times it is helping folks to identify for Example what courage is or what it means to make a good decision. Because parents haven't talked to their children in a lot of cases. And then part of what we do is we give them tips and tricks. So one of the things.Well, give you two things that I did with my kids that we do in our prevention program. One is if you're at a party and somebody is really pressuring you to use, you know, you think that the advice would be to say no, right?That's actually not the advice we give. What we say is say to the person, maybe later. You know, maybe later. I'll be right back. I have to go to the bathroom. Maybe later. I'll be right back.I'm going to go to the kitchen, whatever that that looks like. Because when that bully hears maybe later, it takes the pressure off. Okay, I'm getting somewhere. That they said maybe later.But it gives the young person the ability to escape. And the second is, have a plan with your parents. So have a. Have a code word.And mine with my kids was always, my kids would call and say, I have a migraine. They never got headaches, so we could use that one. So they'd say, maybe later, I have to go to the bathroom.They'd go to the bathroom, and then they would call. And it only happened once, but, boy, did it work. Well, I have a migraine. In case anyone hears you, hey, I have a migraine. I don't feel really well.And that's the code to the parent. Drop everything, get in the car, and go pick up your kid. It doesn't matter what time it is. It doesn't matter. Go pick up your kid. They are not safe.
Joanie Sigal
Yeah, I like that. And that's. I was going to ask you about some valuable advice for parents or families, and there you go. You said, maybe later.I might say, let me think about it. I hear what you're saying. Let me think about it.
Rachel Docekal
Yeah, let me think about it.
Joanie Sigal
Yeah, let me think about it. And then I. I gotta go right now, but let me think about it. And then I have a migraine or whatever the code word is.But I do like that because it gives it. What it does is to me is it puts the young person at cause. And so they're not the effect of whatever the bully is saying.They have a specific method of staying at cause. Let me think about it. And then knowing I can call my mom, I don't have to say someone's pressuring me to use drugs.I can say, I have a migraine or my Stomach is acting up or whatever it is. But that puts the young person in a position of cause so they don't have to do something under pressure. You know, that's where a lot of it happens.I think. What would be another good piece of advice you might give families if they. How about if they suspect that their child may be using.
Rachel Docekal
Sure. You know, I always go back to safety. We want to make sure that our kids are safe.I think we, as parents will default to, I don't want to embarrass my kid or I don't want to overreact or I don't want to say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing. Throw all that out the window. Forget about that.You know, I will tell you that parents who find a kid who's overdosed, you know, wish a thousand things would have gone differently, you know, intervene if you think something is wrong. Intervene. And I will have, you know, because of what I do, I have parents in the community who will.Will talk to me and, you know, they'll say, I just feel like something is. Is not right with my child. And the evidence that they have for that, though, they feel is flimsy.So it's things like, well, my kid always was, you know, somebody who, you know, would get up early, and now he's sleeping in. He was always very neat, and now his room is messy. He always took, like, three showers a day, and now he's not showering for a week.You know, he always had this one friend since kindergarten, and now he doesn't hang out with that kid anymore. But he's in with the new group, and he doesn't want me to meet them.You know, any or all of these things, even though they don't have anything at all to do with drugs and alcohol, they are signs that things are different. Don't ignore them. Keep your kid safe. And the easiest way to do that is to have a direct conversation.And for goodness sakes, if your kid comes home with eyes that are bloodshot and they're wobbly, or, you know, go to the, you know, take them to the urgent care. Who cares? Don't think, you know, oh, great. I'm. I'm taking my kid to the urgent care because he had two beers. Great.You're taking your kid to the urgent care because he had two beers.
Joanie Sigal
Yeah. And, you know, it's out of character and it's not. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. No, I think you're absolutely right.And I think, you know, when those red flags come up, you know, when I hear a parent say they don't want to violate their child's privacy. I'm like, wait, what?
Rachel Docekal
Yeah. Violate it.
Joanie Sigal
They live in your house? Yeah. They live in your house. They're. Yeah, they're not 21. You. Okay, you want to call it violating privacy?I would call it making sure that I know exactly what's going on with my son or daughter. And that's not an option. I mean, it's not like something I'm going to go, well, maybe I should. Maybe I shouldn't.
Rachel Docekal
That's right.
Joanie Sigal
You know, if people want more information about the Hanley foundation, where do they go?
Rachel Docekal
Sure. They can. They can call Hanley directly. We are again, we're in West Palm beach. We are at 561-841-1000.Or they can look on our website, hanley foundation.org all of our programs are on there.You know, the one thing that we haven't touched on today that I do want to make sure is it is really, really difficult for families to know where to send a loved one who's having a challenge with drugs and alcohol.If you were going to have open heart surgery and you said, hey, I'm going to go to the Cleveland Clinic, you would know that that would be a good place. One of the things that that Hanley does in our admissions department is we help people get to the right place.Hanley is an amazing place to get treatment.It may not be the right place for everybody, but if families have questions about what quality treatment is, you're welcome to call us and we can direct you to a quality treatment center and in your own area.
Joanie Sigal
I think that's huge. And in case you cannot read Rachel's jacket, it's H A N L E Y. Not there's no D in there because it's not handley. It's Hanley.Hanleyfoundation.org and the number one more time is 561841. 1000. 1000. Rachel, thank you so much for talking to us today. I think you have.
Rachel Docekal
Thank you for having me.
Joanie Sigal
Valuable information. And I like the fact that your foundation will refer people to other treatment centers if theirs is perhaps not the most fitting for the person.And that's huge. I appreciate you. Thank you so much.
Rachel Docekal
All right. Bye, bye.
Joanie Sigal
Bye, bye.
Voiceover
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