Dr. Phillip Drum - Why Medical Marijuana should Stay Level 1 Controlled Substance - Part 3

The Addiction Podcast -: Dr. Drum, ⁓ I am excited to have you back on ⁓ I ⁓ really appreciated what you told me last we talked, but realized that ⁓ I could not speak about it intelligently.

Phillip Drum: The amount goes up. And for some reason, it's causing this hyperemesis syndrome in which people are throwing up. And it's killed people because, again, throwing up will

The Addiction Podcast -: Yeah.

Phillip Drum: disturb your electrolyte balance within your body. You lose too much potassium and now that's ⁓ potassium regulates your heart rhythm and you start having a heart rhythm. You become dehydrated. It damages your kidneys. So these people typically have to be put on IVs to hydrate them because they're constantly throwing up. The only true cure for this, stopping their marijuana use.

The Addiction Podcast -: Yeah, like, yeah.

Phillip Drum: None of the drugs that we're using are 100 % effective. We tried anti-emetics. They don't work. We've tried anti-psychotics like Haldol, Haloperidol. It kind of works maybe a little bit. One of the interesting things is, and again, we in medicine quickly learned this, what you ask the person is, have you ever found out that taking a hot shower makes it go away? And if they answer yes to that, that is cannabis-induced hyperemesis.

The Addiction Podcast -: you

Phillip Drum: And we have the diagnosis. Some people say that emergency room doctors say that I can diagnose that down the hall just by the sound that these people are making. Some people call it scromity. A combination of screaming and vomiting is what they'll hear in the emergency room when these people come in. And again, I've heard, and this is no exaggeration, around the US now, especially in those states that have legalized marijuana, you have one per MD per shift per day.

The Addiction Podcast -: Mmm.

Phillip Drum: coming in doing that. And the estimation is to the cost to diagnose this because again, we don't know is this marijuana or is this somebody having pancreatitis or gallbladder issues or we don't know. So we end up having to run like $50,000 studies to figure out. And it's typically what we call a diagnosis of exclusion, meaning we have to exclude everything else and then go, well, it's the marijuana and guess what? They don't believe us. And they end up coming back in a few more days with the same symptoms.

The Addiction Podcast -: Hmm, because I don't want to. So not only is there no such thing as medical marijuana, the marijuana actually causes way more medical problems than it is supposed to be addressing. Unbelievable.

Phillip Drum: Exactly. So let me go back to something that I wanted to cover too previously. When we discussed the different levels of controlled substance, right? So we went through the one through five, right? Those are the drugs that have an addictive potential. Somebody goes through physical and or psychological withdrawals from these substances. They get categorized then into their level of addiction potential. into one being those drugs that have no medical indication and those high adect and we were marijuana clearly fits. CS2s through five have a medically approved indication and FDA approved indication are the two through fives. And as the number goes, however, way you look at it, the number gets bigger. ⁓ Those then are FDA approved and the lower likelihood of having an addiction. in lower likelihood of going through physical and psychological withdrawals. So the lowest being a CS5, right? But CS3 is where the marijuana industry and Donald Trump recently said he wanted to move marijuana into. So moving it from a one, no medical indication, to a three, magically having approved indications, which the FDA has not done. The FDA has not approved marijuana for any indication. So magically all of sudden, One of the rules for it to be a two through five is broken, right? And so that's why we wanna see those studies. Where are those studies that prove that it is? And again, let's see the comparator study because they're claiming it works from pain. Let's see it versus an opiate or a non-steroidal and how well it does for pain. So CS3, what happens when it becomes a CS3? Here's something that a lot of people have missed. And Senator Schumer, well as other senators, Wyden and others, have constantly been pushing for years and years to make marijuana, to allow it to have banking rights.

The Addiction Podcast -: What does that mean?

Phillip Drum: meaning you could use the bank for any type of activities. ⁓ So meaning you can use a credit card to buy marijuana. Well, one of the things the marijuana industry can't do is they're not supposed to use credit cards, but what they'll use is PayPal instead. ⁓ And that's why PayPal was a big backer of marijuana here in the state of California when it was coming through. Peter Thiel, who was a member of PayPal, ⁓ owner He was a big backer, if you look back in 2016 in California, gave to Prop 64. And so anyway, they had to use cash. Cash on the barrel head is how you get your marijuana. You're supposed to get it. And then they bring their bag of cash, like Santa Claus, into the bank. They can hold an account, but here's what happens. for the bank to be FDIC insured, they have to follow certain rules. And one of those rules are that they can't be dealing knowingly with international drug cartels. So what they have to do is fill out if they're suspicious that this is drug money, they have to fill out for that account a suspicious activity report, an SAR. ⁓ So because it's a CS1 substance and the bank suspects this is coming from that marijuana dispensary that they call it, again drug den, ⁓ the bank has to fill out an SAR for that monies and that account. And they register that with the Department of Treasury. It's known that the DEA, Drug Enforcement Agency, FBI, DOJ, walk over to the Department of Treasury, hand over those suspicious activity reports we'd like to follow up on those banking accounts. Get it? So now they know who the potential drug dealers are. International cartels don't like being exposed by the banks. Therefore, we had senators that were pushing to allow the marijuana industry to use the bank through the Safe Banking Act. Get it? And it kept getting voted down. because we don't want to start allowing a federally approved CS1 substance to start being able to use our FDIC insured banks. And as we knew and as we've already seen, international drug cartels have really taken over in the US with the marijuana industry, right? We know about this. We know about the Chinese cartels, the Russian cartels. We know the Mexican cartels are here in California that are into the marijuana industry. and that would have just opened up those cartels. We've also caught them selling non-marijuana substances in these drug dens. And so that just opens up that whole pipeline. And so that's why that's been continuously blocked. They can't use the bank. So you make it a CS3, now they can legally use the banks. Because two through five substances can legally use the banks. Interesting, Didn't know that, did you?

The Addiction Podcast -: Interesting.

Phillip Drum: exposes those international drug cartels when it stays a CS1. So that, I believe, is one of the key reasons why they want to move it to a CS3. Okay? Now, let's talk about where can a CS3 substance be sold? Where do you think? Most state laws, where do you think you can get testosterone? Where can you get Tylenol with codeine? Yeah, number threes. Yeah, a pharmacy. So now, all of a sudden,

The Addiction Podcast -: Interesting. Pharmacy? pharmacies.

Phillip Drum: Wouldn't it become problematic for all state laws when you say these CS3 substances can be sold in a drug den? Why can't they sell Tylenol with codeine too? Why can't they sell testosterone? Where's our testosterone drug dens right now? They're a CS3. Get it? It becomes problematic for them when it becomes a CS3 and yet we could still sell it at a non-pharmacy or from a doctor's office. Because doctor's offices could sell controlled substances too. But they have to follow something, and that's number three.

The Addiction Podcast -: Yeah. Yeah.

Phillip Drum: It's called a prescription drug monitoring program. And that becomes very problematic for them.

The Addiction Podcast -: which is why you said the opioids have gone down because of the prescription drug monitoring programs.

Phillip Drum: That's right. And so the prescription drug monitoring programs are a system in which we have to let the state know that we've just sold a controlled substance two through five in the state of California. It's called the Cure system. I have to pay ⁓ extra money to be able to have access to the Cure system. And I have to have access as a pharmacist to the Cure system, even though I don't dispense any medication. I still have to pay for that system. It's an electronic system in which Whenever we dispense a controlled substance, we let the state know. We also have to look in there before we can even dispense it to make sure that another pharmacy isn't dispensing a controlled substance to that patient, which becomes obviously problematic because now they're gonna be doctor shopping. And so this is the way to cut down on the doctor shopping. And that, that is what caused the reduction in the opiate prescriptions is because there were prescription drug monitoring programs. And so that became white because again, the Oxycodone, Oxycontin issue where it exploded and they were doctor shopping. So this is the way to control this. The states again have gone together. We'll even share with other nearby states because if you're in South Shore Lake Tahoe, you walk down the block and you're in Nevada. And so we share then some of this data with ⁓ states that are nearby that they have access into our system. And so we checked that. So here's the question that I have.

The Addiction Podcast -: Right.

Phillip Drum: Mr. President, if you're going to make marijuana a CS3 substance, who's going to have access to the prescription drug monitoring program? Or is this CS3 not going to be part of it? So let's pretend that it is. So now you're going to have Billy Budtender going into the prescription drug monitoring program, not a pharmacist, going in and looking and seeing what other opiates, what other marijuana you're getting. because they have to go in there and look. That's the rules of a prescription drug monitoring program. You have to check and see what other controlled substances they're on. So are we going to give Billy Budtender the ability to go in there and look and see who else is prescribing or recommending marijuana for them and morphine and Ativan and Xanax and all the other controlled substances? Pharmacists can see it. Billy Budtender now needs to see it. So if Billy Budtender isn't gonna see it, then why do I have to put anything in? So everybody gets to do it. So what are they gonna do? Hire a pharmacist then to be looking into the prescription drug monitoring program to be able to dispense their marijuana? Let me give you another tip, those of you that wanna use marijuana. Now we know how much marijuana you're using.

The Addiction Podcast -: Right. Wow. Mmm.

Phillip Drum: Now we know how much marijuana you're getting, because it's in the prescription drug monitoring program. And believe me, the state's looking at it too. That's how they've been able to go after providers who are overprescribing opiates. They've caught many of them now through this program, because it's electronic. And they set rates as to what's out of the norm for providers to be prescribing opiates.

The Addiction Podcast -: Interesting.

Phillip Drum: pharmacies to be dispensing opiates. If you're dispensing with larger amounts than what's normal. the state comes to your door and goes, let's review your habits of dispensing opiates and products. marijuana drug den, they're gonna be able to see all those prescriptions, where you're getting it, who recommended it now, that'll be nice. We also, the hiding of who's recommending this goes away. They may have gotten an ability to recommend it.

The Addiction Podcast -: Hmm.

Phillip Drum: and never used it, right? Because they'll be on the records in the state saying, okay, this guy has the ability to recommend marijuana and you don't know how many recommendations they've made. Now they'll know. They'll know who recommended, who received, who dispensed that marijuana. And now with who received, we get to see how much you're getting every day, every week, whatever. And again, they may be a little concerned that gets handed over to others.

The Addiction Podcast -: Wow.

Phillip Drum: to watch out for how you're doing. So I don't think the marijuana industry has really thought this through. And if they get their substance made as a CS3, there's gonna be a lot more issues. They also don't get away with the taxation like they're getting now where the states are being able to disregard their taxation. The feds are gonna wanna cut. They're have to pay their taxes. I know in the state of California, Gavin Newsom has gotten rid of their cultivation tax. Thank you, Gavin.

The Addiction Podcast -: Hmm. Mmm.

Phillip Drum: That was one of the benefits that we were supposed to have for legalizing marijuana that he just got rid of. And the city of Los Angeles ⁓ reports came out recently, $300 million they have not received from their medical marijuana sites. 300 million. And they're saying they may give them the ability just to pay 10 and let it go.

The Addiction Podcast -: Wow.

Phillip Drum: The question is, who's paying for all those adverse effects that we know are going on? The hyperemesis, the car crashes, the psychoses, the addiction. Who's paying for all that? If they're not even collecting on the taxes that were supposed to be the big benefit, they're not collecting on the taxes. Don't believe that lie either.

The Addiction Podcast -: Wow. Right. Mm. Wow, Dr. Drum, a lot to think about, a lot for our listeners to digest. You guys need to listen to what he's talking about here and do your own research if you don't believe him. I mean, there it is.

Phillip Drum: I've been warning people about this since 1996. When the flood of medical marijuana was being proposed to the state of California, I said, what? We already have dronabinol. That, it's going to be used for cancer patients and their nausea and vomiting. It's like, we already have dronabinol. We have the active ingredient. Yeah, Delta 9 THC. And it was approved for that by the Food and Drug Administration back in 1985.

The Addiction Podcast -: I mean, yeah. I know you have. And that's what drenabinol is used for,

Phillip Drum: for chemotherapy-induced nausea and vomiting, and also for AIDS wasting syndrome, which also has disappeared. How many AIDS wasting patients do you see now? So, and again, as I mentioned last time, as an anti-emetic, it's not even on the list of the American Oncology Association. It's listed as a, if everything else fails, consider using Dramabinol. Its side effect risk profile is heavily on the side effect side. Its efficacy is not as good.

The Addiction Podcast -: Wow. Well.

Phillip Drum: and it has a high side effect profile.

The Addiction Podcast -: Well, Dr. Drum, thank you for laying all this out. And yeah, we'll put it back up again. I hope people listen. And I'm gonna listen to it myself several more times. So I'm really well versed so that when I say to somebody, there is no such thing as medical marijuana, I can back it up.

Phillip Drum: It has doesn't mean it does not meet the five criteria of the 1935 1938 Food Drug and Cosmetic Act. It does not fit those five criteria. Sorry.

The Addiction Podcast -: And there it is, and it's right there. Mainly, I think one of the biggest things is you can't regulate it. You can't regulate what's in it. Like you could go to three different drug dens and ask for the same thing and get three different things with different chemicals and different contaminants. Yeah, yeah.

Phillip Drum: There's no oversight. There's no oversight. The state is not providing the true oversight that they're supposed to. The FDA's hands right now have been, they're not touching marijuana. They have an approved marijuana. How could we make it a CS3 when the difference between a one and a three is a medically approved, FDA approved indication? You don't have it. Where is it?

The Addiction Podcast -: Yeah. Yeah. And that is, that is one of the Right, right, right. Right. Dr. Drum, thank you. Thank you for taking the time and talking to us today. We'll keep...

Phillip Drum: Thank you for inviting me. Hopefully again, the public will start listening. I know they're seeing the adverse effects. I know they are now and it's becoming more more blatantly obvious. Again, yesterday I was actually on a call was very interesting is the association between cannabis and mass murder. It's there. So are we going to continue to just pretend that the Uvalde shooter wasn't a marijuana user that the Marjorie Stoneham Douglas shooter wasn't a marijuana user the Fourth of July shooter?

The Addiction Podcast -: And we'll keep repeating the, yep, yep. Yeah.

Phillip Drum: in Illinois was not a marijuana user. The guy that ran over the dancing grandmas in Waukesha was not a marijuana user. The Boston bombers were not marijuana users. The Pulse nightclub shooter was not a marijuana user. The Minnesota church school shooting was not a marijuana. Are we going to continue to ignore those red flags that are exploding everywhere?

The Addiction Podcast -: Yep. And Dr. Drum, I would say if you went all the way back to Columbine, you'd probably find a relationship back there as well. And I wrote to the I wrote to the editor of the newspaper in Denver when that happened. And I said, you really ought to look at the drugs that the shooter was on. And this person said to me, drugs are not the problem. Guns are. And I went, you don't know what's going on.

Phillip Drum: All I'm ⁓ Right. ⁓ And see this information from Dr. Girgis is his name out of Columbia that recently ⁓ produced the scientific evidence of this ⁓ and stating, interestingly enough, and again, he explained why he chose 1996. I've mentioned 1996 multiple times and that the rate of mass murders has gone up since 1996 and the association is there. between cannabis using shooters and mass murders. It's there. And so the higher and higher THC concentrations that are constantly being allowed, you know, the NFL, the guy that went to the NFL offices in downtown Manhattan, remember that just a couple of years ago, marijuana user, okay? And our media hit it. One media outlet admitted there was marijuana in his car. He came from, course, Nevada.

The Addiction Podcast -: Yep, yep, yep.

Phillip Drum: Las Vegas, which is a major marijuana hub and using site. He drove all the way right to New York City and in his car was marijuana before he and shot up at the end. I mean, it's just case after case after case. You know, our American sniper, that movie, the guy that shot him was a marijuana user. He was out of his mind.

The Addiction Podcast -: Mmm. Well. Yep. Yep, I remember. And they didn't mention that.

Phillip Drum: No, it's, you know, and these people have even admitted it in the courtroom. Go back and look at what the Marjory Stonem Douglas shooter said in the courtroom. Marijuana ruined my life and we should not be using marijuana. What was written on the gun of the guy up in, and where did he work? The guy in Minnesota, he worked at a drug den, a marijuana drug den in Minneapolis and he had on his gun.

The Addiction Podcast -: Hmm.

Phillip Drum: You I hard marijuana. You know, it's like, come on, guys. It's right there in front of you.

The Addiction Podcast -: Yeah, wake up everybody. Yep, wake up. I'm gonna put this up. I'm gonna say again, there's no such thing as medical marijuana and see, know, people will take note and look at it and say, what is she talking about? What are they talking about? Well, there it is. And you have right there, it does not fit the five criteria that were adopted back in 1938, which makes something a medicine. Good.

Phillip Drum: another

The Addiction Podcast -: Thank you, Dr. Drum. You keep fighting the good fight and we want to have you on again. So we'll keep talking to you and keep putting it out there and making it clear.

Phillip Drum: You're welcome. Thank you. Let's let me make one last plea. ⁓ can we please get the law enforcement and the corners of the United States to be in testing for THC? This is obscene. This is, this is obscene in the state of California and Los Angeles, California. I've got documented evidence from the LA coroner who's, who states that it's ubiquitous and we're not testing for THC. And so that's completely unacceptable. If you're going to not test them, why are you testing for alcohol?

The Addiction Podcast -: Yes, sir. test for THC. ⁓ Okay.

Phillip Drum: Why are you testing for these other substances then? It's completely irresponsible because again, 100 % of, in fact, it's a minority of our population is using marijuana. So you should be testing for THC and everybody. And this needs to be released to the public. Stop hiding it under HIPAA rules. Stop hiding it under ⁓ legal case review that we have to hide this. This should be open and available for the public to see.

The Addiction Podcast -: Yeah! Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Phillip Drum: Who these mass murders and shooters and killers, what substances were they under the influence of? And let me remind you, it's hair testing that needs to be done. That will tell us the last 90 days potential use of that product because unless you're drawing that blood, as I mentioned before, within 80 minutes of the last toke, you're not gonna find it in the bloodstream. But it's in the hair.

The Addiction Podcast -: But it's in the hair. Okay.

Phillip Drum: And the hair will show usage within the last 90 days, which is typically cause that person to go psychotic. And so let's check and see what's in the hair. And if it's in the hair, then we know that that person was a chronic user of marijuana. That simple. And let's start testing for that. Otherwise, you need to be testing for oral swabs, doing oral swabs. Because again, that will show that THC as well as five other different drug classes very quickly at the roadside. Let's do this tomorrow.

The Addiction Podcast -: Got it. Got it. I agree. Thank you, Dr. Drum.

Phillip Drum: Thank you.