Breaking the Circuit of Shame: Dr. Samantha Harte on Trauma‑Informed Recovery

Voiceover00:00:01

The addiction podcast Point of no return.

Joanie Sigal00:00:08

Doctor Samantha Hart, thank you for being on the podcast today.It sounds like you have a very interesting story.

Samantha Harte00:00:16

Thank you so much for having me.I. I was just saying before we hit record, I love podcasting.I absolutely love this medium of storytelling.

Joanie Sigal00:00:25

I do as well.And I was thinking, gee, does that put a lot of pressure on me because you're a podcaster too?Not really.You.To me, podcasting is really just having a conversation, you know, telling stories that are important to people who listen.And as you know, this one is all about addiction.Now tell us your story, because you have your own story of addiction.And we can then segue into how you address it with people.

Samantha Harte00:00:53

Yeah, I mean, gosh, you know, where do we even start?If I were to sort of press fast forward, I'm going to take you to the night that I got accepted into a doctoral program for physical therapy, which was also the same night that I overdosed on cocaine.

Joanie Sigal00:01:11

Oh, my.

Samantha Harte00:01:12

I think that that's important because it highlights the level at which I was seemingly functioning on the outside.And the pressure valve got so high that it burst on that night.And I went from someone who was sure she could control it to questioning whether she could.You know, it spooked me big time.

Joanie Sigal00:01:37

Yeah.

Samantha Harte00:01:38

It would be not just a long time before I landed in a 12 step room and stayed, but a really long time before I moved from sobriety to recovery.So on the heels of that overdose, I called the one guy I knew who was sober.He took me to a meeting.I read the steps on the wall.I ran out and didn't come back for a year and a half.Then when the guy I was dating, who I cheated on a gazillion times in my active addiction, found a prescription pill bottle that my father was lovingly as the family enabler, driving into Manhattan and giving to me whenever I wanted and looked at me with such disgust stain.And I thought, oh, he's going to leave me.And then if he leaves me, I'm nothing and I'm no one.I called that same guy again, went to a meeting again, and felt the same way again, but this time felt like I kind of had no other choice but to stay.And what I'm going to talk about for most of this interview today is everything that I had to learn.That is in the book that I ultimately wrote about how to actually heal from what I believe is the root cause of addiction.I did the very best that I could, working the steps as they are written.And I Loved my sponsor.He was a man who I believed when I really didn't believe anything else.He had 22 years sober from heroin addiction, and he had seemingly recovered from this hopeless state of being.And at the end of my first year, he started to act differently.I couldn't fully put my finger on it, but this beautiful light in his eyes just seemed to be dwindling.And I just said, hey, you know, I have this opportunity in my graduate program to go to la.I'm going to get a temporary sponsor.I'm not sure what's going on with you, but I love you and I want to stay friends.I didn't hear from him for weeks when I came out to California, and I got angry over that.And eventually his wife called me and said he relapsed, which was unimaginable to me.It was impossible because it was shattering.The version of this is how it works that I was tethered to.And I remember coming back to New York, meeting up with him, and that light was in, out in his eyes was not the first time, and it would not be the last time that I would have that experience of being in the presence of a ghost.Somebody whose body is alive but whose spirit is dead.Y and a few weeks later, he killed himself.Now, I say that because it is sometimes what this looks like.It is also what informed my recovery, because at that point, I didn't know there was another way.I just knew for sure that if I relapsed, I was dead, too.So I spent the next four years doing the best I could inside of the container.That was the traditional 12 steps, but mostly just hanging on for dear life to my survival skills, one of which was perfectionism.So I was very, very good at controlling, managing and manipulating the world around me.And when that eventually failed was when I hit actual spiritual rock bottom.You know, rock bottom was not my cocaine overdose.Why?Because I still had a whole slew of survival skills.You know, they call them defects in the 12 step rooms.I call them adaptations that were really working for me, that were actually not just keeping me safe, but culturally giving me rewards and accolades.And when I tried to use those skills inside of the marriage to the man that I had cheated on in my active addiction, and it failed.It finally failed.And I couldn't change his mind about how angry he still was at me.And I couldn't make him forgive me, and I couldn't make our marriage look the way I thought it was going to.I unraveled.I was five years Sober, face down in a marital crisis filled with anxiety, rage and self loathing.That was rock bottom.And that was the moment when I didn't want to die, but I couldn't go on living that way.And a woman came into my life and said, let's do the steps on your marriage.It was the beginning of shifting the framework now all these years later, because that was in 2013, I have since not only shifted the framework, I've written a book about it.And I coach people now today inside of a very progressive and trauma informed version of the 12 steps, because that is how my life began to change and how I actually started to heal.So I'm going to pause there because it's a lot and I'll share any and all things on the other side of that part of my story.

Joanie Sigal00:06:50

Well, and you said something that I think is, is important and I think it's maybe something you're going to get more into.You said there's a difference between being sober and then being in recovery.And how that communicates to me is that it's one thing to stop taking the drug and then you are sober, but you have to recover.You have to physically, mentally, spiritually get better.And that's what I took.That's one of the little pieces I took out of what you were talking about.

Samantha Harte00:07:23

Yeah, yeah.And I think for a long time I didn't fully understand what that meant and I was doing the best that I could and I, in working the steps the way that I did initially, you know, the God thing was extremely difficult for me and for so many people it is.Even though, you know, the language tries to be very beginner friendly, if you will.Right, right.That it's.That it, that it is not rooted in religion per se, that it is this sort of force.You can make it what you want, but, but then there are prayers from the Bible in there and there's the word he, he, he, and it's very confusing.And if you have trauma around religion, it can be a real barrier to entry.So, you know, I had to sort of dance around, really swallow this idea that, you know, you're calling me crazy, you know, you're calling me insane for what I've done.And, and I, and I would say I made a start.You know, I certainly learned about myself in those first five years.I got into a little bit of pattern recognition.Right.I was starting to recover a conscious sense of who I was.However, I was still deeply carrying shame, which I fundamentally believe is the root of our suffering.You know, they say in the 12 step book, you know, that resentment is the number one offender.And I believe shame is.I believe resentment is a phenomenal data point showing us where boundaries have been crossed and it's useful information.And there's a whole lot we need to do about that.Right.That we need to take responsibility for.

Joanie Sigal00:09:16

Yeah.

Samantha Harte00:09:17

But fundamentally, when I look back at my journey in the step work and all the ways that I was fighting it, what I was fighting was terror at a reenactment of a lot of the feelings that started long before my addiction did.Right.A child who's growing up in an extremely volatile home, who's experiencing a lot of trauma, whether it's emotional abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, has a deep sense of powerlessness.

Joanie Sigal00:09:52

Right.

Samantha Harte00:09:52

And learn how to adapt.You know, they.They do, and they do whatever is necessary as a kid because they have to.

Joanie Sigal00:09:59

You have to survive.

Samantha Harte00:10:01

Right.Whether that is suppressing, how they feel, whether that is pleasing, whether that is proving, perfecting, performing, whether that is freezing, whether that is fighting back, being difficult, being seemingly willful.And so all these adaptations are precisely what show up when you stop using so you get sober.But all the adaptations are right at the forefront, right at the top of.

Joanie Sigal00:10:28

Your throat, because those haven't been addressed and what caused them hasn't been addressed.

Samantha Harte00:10:32

That's right.So I was in a lot of my adaptations, and it was met often with, you know, you're in your ego, you're in your pride, you're willful, you got to get down with God or you're not going to stay sober.And this woman, when she met me in that really tender space and said, why don't we do this differently?It was the first time, you know, unbeknownst to me, that it was a trauma informed approach.It was, it was taking the container of recovery and just widening it enough for me to have my shoulders drop.And we go through the steps like this instead of saying, I'm powerless over alcohol or cocaine and my life has become unmanageable.I was very clear about that.We said, what if I investigated my powerlessness over this marriage, the ways in which I really want to control it and change my husband's mind, but I can't.What that brings up in me and the ways in which that affects my sobriety, my mental health, my emotional state, my ability to care for myself, the way I'm speaking to myself.And we trudge through the steps with that framework and we land at step nine.This is when the healing began.Because I Remember that same feeling of kicking and screaming, showing up.And I looked at this woman and was like, I can't keep saying I'm sorry to this man, you know, who I cheated on a lot seven years ago in my active addiction, who I, who I'm making a living amends to by being sober, who, who married me anyway, you know, like where, what about him?What about.When does this get to look different?When do I get to stop kicking myself for what I've done?Which, you know, I love that I finally spoke up in that moment because what actually was speaking up was my authentic self, which is what the heart of recovery is, is recovering that self.And he was just done feeling sorry for what she had, had done to this man.And this woman, God bless her soul, met me with this response.Sam, I don't want you to make an amends to him.I want you to make an amends to yourself.

Joanie Sigal00:12:54

Yeah.

Samantha Harte00:12:55

And I was like, what are you talking about?Because, you know, for some people that is their initial experience.Yep, yep.With sponsor, but it was not mine.It was not mine.And not once, not only in recovery, but in my life as a die hard perfectionist who ran on self lacerating to get the job done.You know, that's how I had edge, was to push and to say not quite good enough.Sam, no one had ever suggested that to me in my life.And I never would have thought of it on my own.Woman gave me a permission slip to start considering what it would sound like, what it would feel like, and what a woman who believed that she deserved forgiveness would do, what actions she would take.And you know, little did I know that two things were happening in that moment that I would spend the next 13 years, including present day, that I would spend my life doing that would actually lead to the recovery of my authentic self.And the two things are, number one, splitting off from that very protective part of me.Because for those five years, I was the perfectionist.Her and I were the same person.So everything she said was gospel.This is what you fucking get for what you've done, Sam.

Joanie Sigal00:14:29

Right?

Samantha Harte00:14:30

And I believed it.And when we're sober and not recovered, those protective parts will sit in the seat of CEO of our lives and they will tell us what to do and how to feel and who we are.

Joanie Sigal00:14:44

Interesting.

Samantha Harte00:14:45

And if we're not careful, we'll believe them.

Joanie Sigal00:14:47

Yep.

Samantha Harte00:14:47

Which is why it gets so fucking painful.Because believing them for long enough is unmanageable.And so we drink to shut them out and shut them up to give Them relief.So the process here was that I. I actually had my authentic self split off from my critical self.And the shame moved over.It didn't go away.It just moved over long enough so that I could hear what this intuitive part of me actually had to say.Actually what she wanted for my life.And she started to nudge me in these new directions.Sometimes in a really simple thing like, hey, Sam, you're in a marital crisis, you're in this apartment that's unfurnished, you're going to be here for a while.I wonder if we could go to a furniture store and just see what color makes you feel good.And maybe you could splash that color around the apartment because, you know, you don't feel that good right now.And this might help a little.This might take the edge off.And I remember just being like, huh, like, you know, this part of me emerged and it sounded clear, calm, curious and compassionate.It sounded nothing like the part that had been running my life into the ground.

Joanie Sigal00:16:08

Yep.

Samantha Harte00:16:09

So I knew I could trust it and I had nothing to lose and everything to gain.So I found this color, blue, which by the way, today, 13 years later, is the color of my business, my brand, my business class cards, car that I drive around.I love that it's such a.It's such a small thing.And I think in the beginning, when we're recovering and we start to hear the whisper of that part of ourselves, it's really helpful to do something in the direction it's nudging us that is tiny and simple and safe.Because when it shows up again and it makes a bolder suggestion for our lives, we're more likely to honor it.Right?And recovering is getting into tiny acts of self trust again and again and again.So I started to split off and recover my authentic self.And also because of that, the second thing that was happening there that I didn't understand fully until later, was that I was building a new identity.And identity evolution work is not woo woo.It's actually rooted in behavioral science.The way that people make lasting change is through taking small and consistent actions in favor of the person they're trying to become.And so in that split of self, I started to question not with judgment, but with curiosity, that critical part, that ashamed part, that anxious part, as it showed up.And I listened in and I attuned to it instead of believing everything it said or silencing it.And then I lovingly reminded it that it was safe now and that I was actually trying to become a woman who loved and forgave herself despite the worst things that had happened to her and despite her own worst mistakes.And so now I had to consider what that woman would say or do in this moment instead.And then I would sit in stillness and wait for the, for the nudge.And when I got it, I would act on it.Maybe it was, you know, the critical part, really wanted me to do a six mile run, even though I hate running, because if I'm not skinny enough, then I'm not pretty enough and I'm not worthy enough.But you know, this other part of me was like, that doesn't sound like, like very soothing or like self care.What if we just go on a 20 minute walk outside by the ocean and call a friend who we know is safe to share kind of what's on our heart with?And I would do that thing, right?I started casting votes towards becoming a woman who radically accepted herself and loved herself.And you know what?After hundreds and thousands of those votes, one day I looked around at my life and I was that person, you know, and this is the stuff that moved me from sobriety to recovery.

Joanie Sigal00:19:26

I love that.Is, is all of that in your book?

Samantha Harte00:19:32

A lot of it is, you know, and interesting about writing a book is you write it long before it gets published.Right?

Joanie Sigal00:19:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Samantha Harte00:19:39

The book came out in 2024, but I started writing in 2022, almost immediately after getting the phone call I had been dreading my entire life, which was that my big sister died of a drug overdose.And you know, here I was living this sober life, still going to the 12 step rooms, you know, having kind of shape shifted the language in a way that sort of worked well enough for me.And also noticing in my patients in the clinic, you know, who were coming in for physical injury, that something was off about this whole business of body pain, that there was this whole other element to their suffering that seemed emotional or spiritual in nature, not very different from a lot of the things we talk about in the 12 step rooms.So as a clinician, there was like this itch in my work that I felt like I couldn't scratch.Like I wasn't fully getting to the heart of the matter by spending an hour with them and healing their low back pain or their knee pain.And when my sister died, it was like a flag in the ground.I've got to do something about this.Really not knowing what the heck my book was going to be about.And as I was writing the book and getting more clear and I got my editorial team and they started Asking poignant questions about my why, you know, why are you writing this?Are you writing this to tell your story?Are you writing this to have it be prescriptive and help people?And I thought, yeah, you know, I do want this to be prescription restrictive.I want people to be able to do the work, just read the story.And they said, okay, well then what helped you the most?And I was like, oh, my God, when I did those steps differently, that's when my life changed.That's what this book is actually about.So I didn't know when I started that it was going to become my calling card, my rally cry for a more modern and trauma informed approach to the 12 steps of recovery.But that's what it is.And I will say to you that if I had a shot at writing it again, I definitely have a second book in me.I just don't.I don't know when it's going to come out, but it would sound even more evolved, which is a wonderful thing, right?Because that means I'm evolving than the book currently does.But to answer your question, yes, a lot of the fundamental principles are in there.But my God, now, you know, it.It has taken me all this time, you know, even though I went on a book tour, even though it got me into public speaking.And I'm very open about all of this.I have still, until a few months ago, been straddling my old world and my new one.You know, Dr. Heart Clinician who fixes your injury and helps you prevent it, and recovery coach and author and speaker whose whole heart is rooted in truly helping people get well from a seemingly hopeless state.And I have fully stepped into the addiction and trauma lane only very recently.The response has been unbelievable.And I'll tell you what was holding me back.Because this is another layer of recovery, you guys, right?Like, I have 17 years in recovery, right?But I was still stuck in an old identity that sounded like, you know, Sam, your doctorate is in physical therapy.You have no right to talk about these things.You're not a psychologist.You're not a psychiatrist.You know what you should do?You should go back in debt and get your doctorate in psychology, and then you'll have a dual degree and then you'll be unstoppable.You know, and there was this other part that was very loud that said, you came from the 12 step rooms.How dare you come up against them.You're going to get so much hate and so much criticism.And didn't the program kind of save your life?What right do you have to try and dismantle a system that has saved millions of people's lives.Now, you know, if you look at my Instagram, you know, some of it is hot.It's hot.And I'm, I'm impassioned when I speak.And you can hear that and see that when I talk to you.And the truth is, I love that the program works for as many people as it works for.And I am speaking to the person and on behalf of the person that is suffering silently or who goes inside of it and is doing the best that they can, which is what I did, but who just isn't able to fully recover because it is a system that was written 87 years ago that hasn't been updated.And we update everything in modern medicine.

Joanie Sigal00:24:53

Yes, we do.

Samantha Harte00:24:54

And I am, I am a root cause girl.You know, I've always been as a clinician, I care deeply about what is at the very heart of the problem so we can finally heal it.And I do believe in my own lived experience, in watching my sponsor relapse and kill himself, in watching my sister kill herself in her active addiction and so many other friends of mine who have lost their battle, that the root causes shame and that inherently, as they are written, the steps actually reinforce that shame and that there is another version of them.Because fundamentally, as a toolkit, as a framework, it's brilliant.If only it were made current with what we now know in 2026.So, you know, there have been some critics and there has been contention, but by and large I've got people shouting at the rooftop saying, thank God you are speaking up.I am so fucking glad I found your work.And I have 150 people inside of a community that I started two months ago.I have more business coaching people now than I've had in the last four years being confused about what lane I was standing in.Right.So.

Joanie Sigal00:26:13

Right.

Samantha Harte00:26:14

Some of recovery doesn't just look like recovering from a shame based identity.It looks like releasing the shackles of whatever's holding us back from fully stepping into what sets our soul on fire.So you're meeting me in this gorgeous space right now where I deeply know what my mission is.

Joanie Sigal00:26:35

And I will tell you that I did not in any way take away from what you told me anything negative about the 12 steps.What I can see is that you've gone beyond the 12 steps, excuse me for evaluating, and come to a whole different reality and a whole different set of tools for people to use.And I don't think there's Anything wrong with that?I mean, everybody has their own path to recovery.There is no one path that works for every single person, which is why we've done 460 episodes.Because just nothing.Work works for everybody all the time.Everybody is different.And I didn't.Just so you know, I didn't pick it up and go, oh, she's dissing the 12 steps.I didn't feel that way.I feel like you have a different approach, and your approach is obviously working for people because you have people who follow you and want to know more.And I think you're giving back, and that's huge, Samantha.I mean, it just is, you know.

Samantha Harte00:27:46

Yeah, I appreciate that.

Joanie Sigal00:27:48

And very well done for being sober and being in recovery and coming to where you are today and for giving back to people you know.Excuse me.Your podcast, your book, your personal coaching, it's huge.We need.We need millions of you.

Samantha Harte00:28:06

Yeah.Thank you.

Joanie Sigal00:28:08

It's a.It's a huge problem.So tell us the title of your book.How to.How to get it and how to find you if somebody wants to talk to you.

Samantha Harte00:28:17

Yeah.So the book is called Breaking the circuit, how to rewire your mind for hope, resilience and joy in the face of trauma.You can find it on Amazon.Just punch it in.Dr. Samantha Hart.And I would say the easiest way to contact me is message me on Instagram, which is Dr. Samantha Hart.H, A, R T E, one word.I do not have anyone managing my social media.I do everything myself.I do respond to dms and in the link in my bio, there is a way to book a free, free discovery call with me.So if something I'm saying is landing, you can literally spend more time with me at no cost.I can tell you all about the recovery room, which is the online community I started, because there's a paid version of the platform where you can access this new framework completely for free and meet people from all over the world inside of it.And there's also a very low ticket paid tier where there's going to be live coaching, guest facilitators, somatic practices, workbooks.So it's a.It's something that I'm trying to create where absolutely anyone, regardless of your financial circumstance, can fit inside of.

Joanie Sigal00:29:26

Yep.And that's huge.

Samantha Harte00:29:29

Yeah.

Joanie Sigal00:29:29

Yeah.

Samantha Harte00:29:29

Something for everyone.So it's a.Your own adventure.

Joanie Sigal00:29:33

Awesome.Samantha.Thank you for sharing your story.Thank you for everything you're doing to help people.I. I think.I think you're doing wonderful things.I appreciate you.

Samantha Harte00:29:44

Thank you.Thank you for having me on.It was.It was great to talk to you.

Joanie Sigal00:29:48

Awesome.

Voiceover00:29:53

You have been listening to the Addiction Podcast, Point of no return.For more information, reach out to us on Facebook or go to www.the addictionpodcast.com.Our email is the addiction podcastahoo.com.