How To Become a Relationship Architect to Crush Sales

1 00:00:12,304 --> 00:00:15,605 Welcome to the sell the sizzle podcast. 2 00:00:16,390 --> 00:00:22,869 If you need to sell an idea, a product, or a service, this is the show for you. 3 00:00:22,869 --> 00:00:27,684 We're gonna be sharing sales secrets so you can be a sizzling success. 4 00:00:28,304 --> 00:00:29,204 Let's go. 5 00:00:35,820 --> 00:00:37,020 And welcome, Sizzlers. 6 00:00:37,020 --> 00:00:37,979 This is Mick Holly. 7 00:00:37,979 --> 00:00:39,760 I'm so excited today. 8 00:00:41,179 --> 00:00:43,765 Season 2 of sell the sizzle. 9 00:00:43,905 --> 00:00:50,225 I'm sure you got tired of listening to me and my voice in season 2 is all about speaking to 10 00:00:50,225 --> 00:00:57,100 luminaries who've helped people companies grow their sales and their capabilities, and I am 11 00:00:57,100 --> 00:01:01,129 delighted delighted to have on the show Jake Starle. 12 00:01:01,804 --> 00:01:08,204 He's a fractional chief learning officer, and he's gonna explain what that is, but I was 13 00:01:08,204 --> 00:01:15,530 fascinated to learn that he has trained over 10,000 people in 6 different countries. 14 00:01:16,924 --> 00:01:24,465 And one of his benefits of his capability is he transforms salespeople into relationship 15 00:01:25,459 --> 00:01:25,959 Architects. 16 00:01:26,180 --> 00:01:27,239 I love that. 17 00:01:27,619 --> 00:01:32,180 And when a bunch of those architects get together in companies, he's managed to help 18 00:01:32,180 --> 00:01:33,959 companies grow their sales threefold. 19 00:01:34,545 --> 00:01:36,245 So Jake, welcome. 20 00:01:36,625 --> 00:01:37,685 We need you. 21 00:01:39,034 --> 00:01:40,564 Mick, thanks for having me. 22 00:01:40,944 --> 00:01:41,584 Pardon me. 23 00:01:41,584 --> 00:01:42,625 This is a true honor. 24 00:01:42,625 --> 00:01:43,365 Thank you. 25 00:01:44,180 --> 00:01:44,899 Oh, great. 26 00:01:44,899 --> 00:01:45,140 Great. 27 00:01:45,140 --> 00:01:48,979 And what part of the world are you, are are you are you residing in? 28 00:01:48,979 --> 00:01:50,659 I mean, you've you must travel a lot. 29 00:01:50,659 --> 00:01:51,715 You've been in Mick countries. 30 00:01:51,795 --> 00:01:54,854 I have to ask, yay, are all those English speaking countries? 31 00:01:56,274 --> 00:01:56,594 No. 32 00:01:56,594 --> 00:01:57,155 They're not. 33 00:01:57,155 --> 00:01:59,254 But luckily, all my audiences were. 34 00:01:59,314 --> 00:02:00,920 So that was the helpful part. 35 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:02,119 Okay. 36 00:02:02,119 --> 00:02:03,079 Very, very good. 37 00:02:03,079 --> 00:02:04,140 Very, very good. 38 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,780 And I did answer your question in Norwich, Connecticut. 39 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:08,060 Norwich. 40 00:02:08,444 --> 00:02:08,765 Okay. 41 00:02:08,765 --> 00:02:09,805 We call it Norwich. 42 00:02:09,805 --> 00:02:11,165 We call that Norwich in England. 43 00:02:11,165 --> 00:02:12,465 I'm from England originally. 44 00:02:13,004 --> 00:02:15,085 But I've been in the States for 26 years. 45 00:02:15,085 --> 00:02:18,224 So Norwich, I've gotta learn to pronounce it correctly. 46 00:02:18,430 --> 00:02:20,209 So I don't defend every anybody. 47 00:02:21,870 --> 00:02:26,030 So so so tell me, Jake, a little bit about your background and and your career. 48 00:02:26,030 --> 00:02:29,454 I think you and I started that career the same way. 49 00:02:30,715 --> 00:02:32,414 I bet we have. 50 00:02:33,194 --> 00:02:37,259 My career is 30 years in training and development through a number of different 51 00:02:37,259 --> 00:02:37,759 companies. 52 00:02:38,379 --> 00:02:41,520 I kind of got my start through pharmaceutical industry. 53 00:02:42,194 --> 00:02:47,314 And then over the past 10 years, I've really diversified quite a bit, now in 10 different 54 00:02:47,314 --> 00:02:47,814 industries. 55 00:02:48,594 --> 00:02:53,050 So, yeah, we, I'm sure background is remarkably similar. 56 00:02:56,069 --> 00:02:56,569 Yep. 57 00:02:56,629 --> 00:03:02,585 I, like you, I started off as a pharmaceutical medical rep, but is, you know, one of couple of 58 00:03:02,585 --> 00:03:07,645 the products that I had were, treated, you know, men mental illness. 59 00:03:08,105 --> 00:03:15,229 And as part of my patch, I had all of the psychiatric institutions, which Mick then were 60 00:03:15,229 --> 00:03:17,090 like big prison populations. 61 00:03:17,389 --> 00:03:24,564 So I would go into these places, you know, it it it was it was quite bizarre, but but, very, 62 00:03:24,564 --> 00:03:25,384 very educational. 63 00:03:25,925 --> 00:03:31,530 So, yeah, so you've you've got a background in sales, and now you you you tell me what does a 64 00:03:31,530 --> 00:03:35,150 what does a fractional, chief learning officer mean? 65 00:03:35,504 --> 00:03:37,003 That's a great question, Mick. 66 00:03:37,025 --> 00:03:39,504 You you only work you only work some of the times? 67 00:03:39,504 --> 00:03:41,284 I I won't want one of those jobs. 68 00:03:42,305 --> 00:03:45,110 You know, in a way, yes, in in a way, no. 69 00:03:45,590 --> 00:03:49,990 As you know, the the chief learning officer role is nothing more than a gussied up term for 70 00:03:49,990 --> 00:03:54,229 head of training and development, VP of training and development, but it kinda sits in 71 00:03:54,229 --> 00:03:55,050 the c suite. 72 00:03:55,735 --> 00:04:01,194 What fractional means is exactly what you said, Mick, we do the work you need in a fractional 73 00:04:01,254 --> 00:04:02,314 period of time. 74 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:10,379 So a company might contract with me for, 16 hours a month or 20 hours a month. 75 00:04:10,655 --> 00:04:13,474 Or they may contract with me for 3 months. 76 00:04:14,094 --> 00:04:19,189 And the fractional piece of it comes in that, a, I'm part of the C suite. 77 00:04:19,189 --> 00:04:22,410 So I'm part of the decision makers, the people that Holly shift the company. 78 00:04:22,470 --> 00:04:24,729 That's part of the definition of fractional. 79 00:04:25,305 --> 00:04:30,185 The second part is I work for you to your point for a fraction of the time, so you don't have 80 00:04:30,185 --> 00:04:33,404 me 40 hours a week, 52 weeks out of the year. 81 00:04:33,980 --> 00:04:40,220 And the last piece of it is I give you all of the experience I have and everything I can 82 00:04:40,220 --> 00:04:45,524 bring to the table for a fraction of the price So you're not gonna pay me this whopping salary 83 00:04:45,584 --> 00:04:48,884 with benefits and perks and equity in the company. 84 00:04:49,264 --> 00:04:55,800 You're just gonna pay for what you need And I'm gonna provide you with, hopefully, more than 85 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:56,540 you need. 86 00:04:58,199 --> 00:04:58,699 Fantastic. 87 00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:01,400 And what's that secret sauce that you're offering, Jake? 88 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:07,675 What tell tell tell me about what you built over that 30 year career that creates these 89 00:05:07,675 --> 00:05:08,735 relationship architects. 90 00:05:09,610 --> 00:05:15,209 Well, I have a degree in psychology, and the human mind has always really fascinated me, but 91 00:05:15,209 --> 00:05:20,634 there was really one milestone point in my life, and that when I first got into sales, I 92 00:05:20,634 --> 00:05:22,955 was fascinated by the question. 93 00:05:22,955 --> 00:05:23,855 How are you? 94 00:05:24,314 --> 00:05:29,819 I marveled at the fact that everybody asked it yet nobody really cared what the answer was. 95 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:35,259 And you know as well as I do, Mick, when you're in a conversation, when you say, how are you? 96 00:05:35,375 --> 00:05:40,415 Unless you're talking to somebody close to you or a family member, you're not expecting to 97 00:05:40,415 --> 00:05:43,074 hear a diatribe or how they really are. 98 00:05:43,979 --> 00:05:45,839 So it started to get into conditioning. 99 00:05:46,379 --> 00:05:48,860 Why are we conditioned to respond the way we do? 100 00:05:48,860 --> 00:05:50,860 And and how can we overcome that? 101 00:05:50,860 --> 00:05:58,305 How can We as salespeople get by these little conditioning things that we do out of sheer 102 00:05:58,305 --> 00:05:58,805 habit. 103 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:00,279 Give you a great example. 104 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,279 My wife and I were Christmas shopping, and I walked by a guy and our eyes locked. 105 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:05,660 And I said, hey. 106 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:07,480 And he looked at me and goes, fine things. 107 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:08,300 How are you? 108 00:06:09,055 --> 00:06:13,555 I didn't even ask the question, but that's the type of conditioning. 109 00:06:14,095 --> 00:06:18,250 So over the past 30 years, I've developed a program that helps you break through that 110 00:06:18,250 --> 00:06:23,529 conditioning, and it helps you understand that from the time you dial the phone and it rings 111 00:06:23,529 --> 00:06:26,830 on your customer's side, that phone ring is conditioning. 112 00:06:27,764 --> 00:06:32,004 They already have a preform thing in their head of what's gonna happen when they pick up that 113 00:06:32,004 --> 00:06:32,504 phone. 114 00:06:32,884 --> 00:06:36,870 So the thing that's different about me, Mick, is I don't give you a sales script and tell you 115 00:06:36,870 --> 00:06:40,149 that verbiage is everything and and everything's gonna be better. 116 00:06:40,149 --> 00:06:46,584 I teach you how to get in and around the psyche of your customers to enable you to have an 117 00:06:46,584 --> 00:06:51,164 honest, trustful conversation to see if you can genuinely help. 118 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:53,360 Oh, wow. 119 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,139 This is this is this is interesting. 120 00:06:55,199 --> 00:06:57,379 I an image just came into my head. 121 00:06:57,439 --> 00:07:01,540 I hadn't really thought about it, this way, Jake, until he just talked to me about it. 122 00:07:01,584 --> 00:07:06,725 Is that is that when that phone rings, it's like, you know, Pavlov's dog experiment. 123 00:07:07,024 --> 00:07:07,425 Right? 124 00:07:07,425 --> 00:07:12,129 The dog starts rolling the bell the bell you know, when when you hear the phone ringing, 125 00:07:12,350 --> 00:07:13,629 you're thinking, okay. 126 00:07:13,629 --> 00:07:16,589 And and certain expectations and conditioning takes place. 127 00:07:16,589 --> 00:07:17,745 You don't even know that. 128 00:07:17,824 --> 00:07:20,485 And, that's that's fascinating. 129 00:07:21,024 --> 00:07:26,870 So, yeah, and one thing, Jake, I know when I talk to salespeople. 130 00:07:27,170 --> 00:07:30,710 I've, like you, I've talked to thousands, trained many, many hundreds. 131 00:07:31,330 --> 00:07:38,664 One of the things that that they really fear the most or dislike doing the most, but what I 132 00:07:38,664 --> 00:07:43,180 advocate has the most value is the cold call. 133 00:07:43,180 --> 00:07:49,759 So talk about the conditioning and and and how your techniques might, you know, disarm that 134 00:07:49,955 --> 00:07:53,795 initial conversation, which is, you know, it's a pattern interrupt for that person on the 135 00:07:53,795 --> 00:07:54,675 other end of the phone. 136 00:07:54,675 --> 00:07:55,955 They weren't expecting it. 137 00:07:55,955 --> 00:07:57,654 That's why it's called cold. 138 00:07:58,919 --> 00:07:59,419 Right. 139 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:00,300 Right. 140 00:08:00,439 --> 00:08:02,199 And, you know, you have a great point. 141 00:08:02,199 --> 00:08:06,039 That does strike fear into many people's hearts, but there's a couple of things to think 142 00:08:06,039 --> 00:08:06,539 about. 143 00:08:07,194 --> 00:08:10,394 So first of all, think about the last time. 144 00:08:10,394 --> 00:08:14,709 Think about the last time that your phone rang, your cell phone rang. 145 00:08:14,949 --> 00:08:18,569 And you looked at the caller ID and you went, oh, no. 146 00:08:19,189 --> 00:08:21,289 I just don't have time for that person. 147 00:08:22,404 --> 00:08:26,985 That happens on a business end or on a gatekeeper's end every time the phone rings. 148 00:08:27,444 --> 00:08:30,425 You are the caller ID of that person. 149 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,279 And they're already trying to think about how to get by that. 150 00:08:34,279 --> 00:08:37,500 So the whole idea, Mick, is a pattern interrupt. 151 00:08:38,334 --> 00:08:40,014 So I can do this a couple of ways. 152 00:08:40,014 --> 00:08:42,514 The first is I can have stark honesty. 153 00:08:43,855 --> 00:08:44,355 Hey, Mick. 154 00:08:44,414 --> 00:08:45,375 My name is Jake. 155 00:08:45,375 --> 00:08:46,115 And yes. 156 00:08:46,389 --> 00:08:48,809 I apologize, but this is a cold call. 157 00:08:49,509 --> 00:08:55,804 That being said, if you can just give me 20 seconds, I may be able to prove value to to 158 00:08:55,804 --> 00:08:57,424 keep us on a little bit longer. 159 00:08:58,125 --> 00:09:04,000 You know, you think about how that pattern interrupt that stark honesty it's it's 160 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:05,699 disarming for the other person. 161 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,019 It's not something they anticipate. 162 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:14,975 Another way Mick to get around that cold call is if you think back to that person on the 163 00:09:14,975 --> 00:09:19,535 caller ID you didn't wanna talk to, you didn't wanna talk to them because your brain does 164 00:09:19,535 --> 00:09:20,595 immediate research. 165 00:09:21,860 --> 00:09:22,419 Pardon me. 166 00:09:22,419 --> 00:09:23,720 I'm getting over a call. 167 00:09:24,179 --> 00:09:26,120 So your brain does immediate research. 168 00:09:26,500 --> 00:09:30,365 It says I've talked with this person before, They dominated the conversation. 169 00:09:30,904 --> 00:09:31,804 This was horrible. 170 00:09:33,384 --> 00:09:37,139 To get by that as a salesperson, do your research. 171 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,180 Let's say I'm calling a transportation company. 172 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:41,759 Hello. 173 00:09:41,759 --> 00:09:43,300 This is X Y Z Transportation. 174 00:09:44,225 --> 00:09:44,545 Hi. 175 00:09:44,545 --> 00:09:45,665 My name is Jake. 176 00:09:45,665 --> 00:09:49,605 I just wanted to tell you how much I was looking forward to Mick up the phone. 177 00:09:50,144 --> 00:09:52,870 I did a bunch of research before I called you today. 178 00:09:52,870 --> 00:09:56,089 And I'm amazed at how well you've done over the years. 179 00:09:56,870 --> 00:09:59,210 Just right off the bat. 180 00:09:59,750 --> 00:10:05,735 Again, disarming not your standard routine, but to break conditioning, you have to break 181 00:10:05,735 --> 00:10:08,075 patterns, and that's just two example of dozens. 182 00:10:09,669 --> 00:10:14,570 I do like that, second one, Jake, in in that you've clearly, communicated. 183 00:10:14,789 --> 00:10:18,855 Look, I've done some research I'm not just a tie, you know, tie kicker here. 184 00:10:19,235 --> 00:10:21,315 I have I have set your company up. 185 00:10:21,315 --> 00:10:25,889 I know what you do, and I think a good rationale for why we should have a 186 00:10:25,889 --> 00:10:26,389 conversation. 187 00:10:26,769 --> 00:10:30,450 I think it sets the scene quite well, but it does have that pattern interrupt. 188 00:10:30,450 --> 00:10:37,514 You saw that that initial stumbling across and going straight into, you know, which they 189 00:10:37,514 --> 00:10:38,830 really don't want to hear. 190 00:10:39,549 --> 00:10:39,790 Yeah. 191 00:10:39,790 --> 00:10:44,509 And if you think about the pattern Mick, think about the psychology of conditioning and 192 00:10:44,509 --> 00:10:45,009 perception. 193 00:10:45,710 --> 00:10:50,615 If I have if I'm sick, how many times do we think to ourselves? 194 00:10:50,835 --> 00:10:52,115 When am I going to be better again? 195 00:10:52,115 --> 00:10:54,054 Am I ever going to feel good again? 196 00:10:54,514 --> 00:10:59,449 We start to go down an alleyway that we need to interrupt. 197 00:11:00,470 --> 00:11:08,024 So our perception and our conditioning leads us to some strange mindsets, but when we break 198 00:11:08,024 --> 00:11:13,779 that, it's amazing how it brings us so quickly Mick to reality again. 199 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:15,840 I like that. 200 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,740 So now we're at now we're in the now we're in the flow. 201 00:11:19,144 --> 00:11:21,164 We've gotten the patent interrupt over. 202 00:11:21,384 --> 00:11:26,524 We've we've earned a little bit of space with that person on the other end of the telephone. 203 00:11:28,519 --> 00:11:34,700 What what do you what do you then advocate in terms of making that conversation as powerful 204 00:11:34,759 --> 00:11:37,924 and as valuable for both parties as possible. 205 00:11:38,784 --> 00:11:43,445 So the first part of it is just understanding them and who they are. 206 00:11:44,029 --> 00:11:50,509 I Holly advocate for not selling your product at all for the first 1 to 2 minutes you're on 207 00:11:50,509 --> 00:11:51,024 the call. 208 00:11:52,004 --> 00:11:56,305 Mick it your mission to find out about them and not trivial stuff. 209 00:11:56,305 --> 00:11:58,085 Like, are you the decision maker? 210 00:11:58,465 --> 00:12:00,404 You know, how much business do you do? 211 00:12:00,639 --> 00:12:02,980 It's like, let's say I'm selling health benefits. 212 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,940 So my question is, do you really enjoy this process? 213 00:12:08,159 --> 00:12:10,259 I mean, how often do you go through this? 214 00:12:10,625 --> 00:12:12,725 I'm starting to empathize already. 215 00:12:13,345 --> 00:12:16,384 And that person's like, you know, I hate even talking to you guys. 216 00:12:16,384 --> 00:12:18,820 We have to go through this every year at this time. 217 00:12:19,299 --> 00:12:19,700 Wow. 218 00:12:19,700 --> 00:12:21,960 So how many times have you wound up switching? 219 00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:27,720 So in that first 1 to 2 minutes, I don't even wanna broach what my product is. 220 00:12:28,475 --> 00:12:30,335 Because here's the cool thing that happens. 221 00:12:30,794 --> 00:12:37,215 If I start to talk to you about me, Mick, and you and I have not established a relationship, 222 00:12:38,769 --> 00:12:40,710 That can sour it really quick. 223 00:12:41,009 --> 00:12:44,290 But if I've talked about you for a little bit, Mick, and I've made you feel good about 224 00:12:44,290 --> 00:12:48,575 yourself, your tolerance for what I'm about to say grows dramatically. 225 00:12:49,514 --> 00:12:54,660 So it's one of those psychological techniques that says, Mick other people feel good about 226 00:12:54,660 --> 00:12:57,299 themselves, empathize with what they do. 227 00:12:57,299 --> 00:12:58,340 And before you 228 00:12:58,340 --> 00:12:58,740 do that? 229 00:12:58,740 --> 00:12:59,639 Oh, they're back. 230 00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:00,200 Yep. 231 00:13:00,715 --> 00:13:05,934 And the more you do that, the more they're gonna be tolerant of any message that you have. 232 00:13:06,075 --> 00:13:08,710 Our problem is salespeople is we dive right in. 233 00:13:08,950 --> 00:13:13,350 And you've established nothing and you're asking something of them, and you just haven't 234 00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:14,570 earned the right yet. 235 00:13:15,725 --> 00:13:15,884 Yeah. 236 00:13:15,884 --> 00:13:19,985 So I think you're saying establish a level of empathy. 237 00:13:20,284 --> 00:13:22,524 Show some genuine interest. 238 00:13:22,524 --> 00:13:24,944 You've been interested in them. 239 00:13:25,429 --> 00:13:32,815 And that will allow a little bit of reciprocity so that they would then concede and be open to 240 00:13:32,815 --> 00:13:35,315 you talking about you or your services? 241 00:13:36,254 --> 00:13:36,754 Absolutely. 242 00:13:37,695 --> 00:13:38,195 100%. 243 00:13:39,294 --> 00:13:44,910 And Mick, if you think about that in a way of how companies currently do business in sales, 244 00:13:45,610 --> 00:13:50,085 they will say, I'm gonna we make a sale 1 out of every 100 calls. 245 00:13:50,545 --> 00:13:53,365 We close a big Mick, 1 out of every 200 calls. 246 00:13:53,665 --> 00:13:56,950 But, Mick, we don't look at anything else in life like that. 247 00:13:57,350 --> 00:14:03,429 If I were to start dating tomorrow, I wouldn't say I have to date 365 people before I can find 248 00:14:03,429 --> 00:14:04,169 my match. 249 00:14:04,995 --> 00:14:06,375 I study. 250 00:14:07,154 --> 00:14:08,595 I look up who they are. 251 00:14:08,595 --> 00:14:11,315 Maybe I go on a dating website and I find out more. 252 00:14:11,315 --> 00:14:12,834 I I look at their Facebook. 253 00:14:12,834 --> 00:14:14,214 I improve my odds. 254 00:14:15,059 --> 00:14:20,500 But in sales, for some reason, a lot of the companies I deal with don't do that, and it's a 255 00:14:20,500 --> 00:14:21,320 real disconnect. 256 00:14:27,845 --> 00:14:29,955 It's for your sound is cut out again, Jake. 257 00:14:30,549 --> 00:14:31,289 I apologize. 258 00:14:31,589 --> 00:14:32,490 Oh, you're back. 259 00:14:34,149 --> 00:14:34,629 Yep. 260 00:14:34,629 --> 00:14:35,370 That's okay. 261 00:14:36,870 --> 00:14:41,404 So, yeah, you were making the you were making the point about doing your research to, in 262 00:14:41,404 --> 00:14:43,085 order to to improve your odds. 263 00:14:43,085 --> 00:14:48,070 So, yeah, I mean, you've worked with many, many hundreds of companies, I'm sure, thousands of 264 00:14:48,389 --> 00:14:51,210 people as you, talk to. 265 00:14:51,910 --> 00:15:00,095 What do you see as being the the common pitfalls or challenges that you see that you 266 00:15:00,095 --> 00:15:02,274 can you feel the need to correct. 267 00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:10,009 One of the biggest common pitfalls to me is that we look at processes like sales. 268 00:15:11,325 --> 00:15:16,065 And we try to automate them or make them an absolute process. 269 00:15:16,285 --> 00:15:19,825 So it's gotta be an open objection handling and a close. 270 00:15:19,965 --> 00:15:25,480 And Again, that's not how we deal with any of our conversations in day to day. 271 00:15:26,419 --> 00:15:29,559 So return sales into something a little bit more robotic. 272 00:15:30,524 --> 00:15:33,424 The other thing we don't do is inspect what's going on. 273 00:15:33,485 --> 00:15:39,129 When I start working with a company, I encourage the CEO and the CEO Call up your 274 00:15:39,129 --> 00:15:39,629 company. 275 00:15:40,169 --> 00:15:44,089 Act like a consumer and tell them you're interested and tell me if you like how you're 276 00:15:44,089 --> 00:15:50,014 handled, or call your customer service group and say you have a concern and see how you're 277 00:15:50,014 --> 00:15:50,514 handled. 278 00:15:52,174 --> 00:15:53,315 And let me know. 279 00:15:53,375 --> 00:15:57,809 And I will tell you, Mick, 9 out of 10 people come back to me and go, Oh my god. 280 00:15:57,870 --> 00:15:58,190 Yeah. 281 00:15:58,190 --> 00:15:58,690 Okay. 282 00:15:59,149 --> 00:16:00,209 I see what you mean. 283 00:16:01,149 --> 00:16:07,004 So we become the sales machine, and then we don't inspect the impact it's making on our 284 00:16:07,004 --> 00:16:07,504 customers. 285 00:16:08,044 --> 00:16:12,144 So people get to, like, live in the dark. 286 00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:16,120 It's interesting you you use that example. 287 00:16:16,659 --> 00:16:20,120 You can see here that that the 10 x, Jake. 288 00:16:20,179 --> 00:16:23,384 I'm a member of the I'm a Mick x business coach. 289 00:16:23,384 --> 00:16:24,845 I work with Grant Cardone. 290 00:16:25,304 --> 00:16:25,785 Great. 291 00:16:25,785 --> 00:16:33,860 And he he's the 10 x mentor, and practically every big event that he goes to, he's talking 292 00:16:33,860 --> 00:16:40,915 about how you, treat your customers, how you respond because the more rapidly you respond, 293 00:16:41,535 --> 00:16:46,835 the more chance you have of connecting with those people and the better the impression. 294 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:53,319 So what he generally does, he gets his his his cell phone out, and he dials his 1800 number 295 00:16:53,319 --> 00:16:59,105 for his he has a team of marketers who are making outbound calls, customer service people 296 00:16:59,105 --> 00:17:00,245 who are answering calls. 297 00:17:00,704 --> 00:17:06,899 And if that phone isn't answered in three rings, he gets very, very irate. 298 00:17:06,899 --> 00:17:10,952 So very quickly, somebody picks up, and they always say, yep, Holly. 299 00:17:10,980 --> 00:17:17,085 This is, Grant Cardone company, what can I get you help on today? 300 00:17:17,865 --> 00:17:21,565 And, you know, it's very, very, you know, trying to trying to help you. 301 00:17:22,789 --> 00:17:25,849 And it's a very, very powerful thing to inspect. 302 00:17:26,470 --> 00:17:33,034 And so the that's the genuine value and culture that he's built around the organization around 303 00:17:33,034 --> 00:17:34,414 that responsiveness. 304 00:17:36,554 --> 00:17:40,890 And he also keeps them on the toes because they never know when he's gonna be calling, but He 305 00:17:40,890 --> 00:17:45,309 knows whether his team is on the ball or not and for a CEO running a big enterprise. 306 00:17:45,609 --> 00:17:52,065 That's that's a that's a it also amplifies that value and communicates it to the employers. 307 00:17:52,065 --> 00:17:52,884 This is important. 308 00:17:53,105 --> 00:17:54,144 This is why I'm doing it. 309 00:17:54,144 --> 00:17:55,585 It's not to check up on you. 310 00:17:55,585 --> 00:17:59,500 It's just to emphasize that this is critically important and we can stand out and 311 00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:04,380 differentiate in the marketplace because people are Holly, really bad at responding and 312 00:18:04,380 --> 00:18:06,159 answering the telephone. 313 00:18:07,164 --> 00:18:07,484 Yeah. 314 00:18:07,484 --> 00:18:13,565 And and I think, Mick, we're leading into a dangerous area because a lot of people are 315 00:18:13,565 --> 00:18:17,190 thinking, well, AI responds right away, it's gonna be great. 316 00:18:17,490 --> 00:18:23,590 And I do think there's some value to that, but it really loses that human touch. 317 00:18:24,115 --> 00:18:30,295 Like, a great example is I bought a big product online the other day, and I had a live 318 00:18:30,434 --> 00:18:31,680 representative helping me. 319 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:37,519 And after I gave my credit card and I purchased a product, I noticed a distinct shift in 320 00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:38,019 verbiage. 321 00:18:38,934 --> 00:18:41,115 And I knew I had been attended by a chatbot. 322 00:18:41,174 --> 00:18:44,054 So I wrote in and I said, where'd my rep go? 323 00:18:44,054 --> 00:18:46,534 And they said, oh, they had something else to attend to. 324 00:18:46,534 --> 00:18:47,755 I'm here right now. 325 00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:52,259 I will never ever buy from that company again. 326 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,960 So you took away a live person once you got my credit card and and handed me over to something 327 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:57,460 else. 328 00:18:58,744 --> 00:19:03,625 I think we're heading into some dangerous waters where if we don't moderate how ai is 329 00:19:03,625 --> 00:19:07,730 used, it it's gonna lead to It's Holly dishes. 330 00:19:08,990 --> 00:19:15,144 And I I think AI is very powerful if it's used in the in the correct fashion. 331 00:19:15,205 --> 00:19:15,705 100%. 332 00:19:16,005 --> 00:19:16,404 Right? 333 00:19:16,404 --> 00:19:20,965 I mean, if if if if you want some information, I mean, people, when they're first shopping, 334 00:19:20,965 --> 00:19:25,110 they want information if it could send you that information, but then you want somebody 335 00:19:25,570 --> 00:19:30,964 particularly on a more complex transaction or a larger transaction, you want somebody to help 336 00:19:30,964 --> 00:19:34,505 you navigate through all of this data, these facts that you've assimilated. 337 00:19:35,125 --> 00:19:35,444 Right. 338 00:19:35,444 --> 00:19:36,904 And it gets a little confusing. 339 00:19:36,964 --> 00:19:39,460 And somebody with the voice of authority. 340 00:19:39,599 --> 00:19:47,200 You've seen other people buy, know where some of the, major areas of concern are going to 341 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,075 explain it That's hugely, hugely powerful. 342 00:19:50,134 --> 00:19:54,634 So AI should take away those mundane tasks for that human interaction. 343 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,680 Building that relationship, building that trust formula that you talk about in building that 344 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:06,835 relationship architect is what's really going to, a, you know, seal the deal, but, Jake, as 345 00:20:06,835 --> 00:20:12,380 you mentioned, you you should be looking at customers for life It's not a transaction. 346 00:20:13,799 --> 00:20:14,299 We 347 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,000 we should be able to serve these people, and that company didn't serve you well. 348 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,304 You're certainly not gonna be you know, a customer for life. 349 00:20:22,605 --> 00:20:23,105 Right. 350 00:20:23,565 --> 00:20:23,964 Yep. 351 00:20:23,964 --> 00:20:24,625 I agree. 352 00:20:26,845 --> 00:20:28,924 Now you have, a book coming out. 353 00:20:28,924 --> 00:20:29,585 I understand. 354 00:20:31,190 --> 00:20:31,690 Yeah. 355 00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:33,450 Hopefully in Mick. 356 00:20:33,509 --> 00:20:34,309 Fingers crossed. 357 00:20:34,309 --> 00:20:38,869 Hopefully in May, I have a book coming out called the 210 rule why Cadence Trump's 358 00:20:38,869 --> 00:20:39,369 content. 359 00:20:40,445 --> 00:20:47,105 And, it it really applies to not only salespeople, but it applies to trainers, public 360 00:20:47,164 --> 00:20:54,080 speakers, the boardroom to the living room, it's my philosophy that cadence in a 361 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:59,625 conversation is supremely important over just about anything else. 362 00:21:00,404 --> 00:21:02,884 Well, tell me what you tell me what you mean by cadence. 363 00:21:02,884 --> 00:21:04,105 This is very curious 364 00:21:04,970 --> 00:21:05,470 Sure. 365 00:21:05,609 --> 00:21:10,590 So the cadence by my definition is the back and forth in a conversation. 366 00:21:11,210 --> 00:21:14,154 And, Mick, you've know this well as a podcaster. 367 00:21:14,455 --> 00:21:21,115 If you have a guest that does it back and forth you, it makes for an entertaining podcast. 368 00:21:21,349 --> 00:21:29,470 But if you have a guest that talks for 40 minutes and and doesn't wanna kinda scale Mick, 369 00:21:30,085 --> 00:21:32,025 it can really start to lose people. 370 00:21:32,884 --> 00:21:38,839 So my philosophy and what I found over the past 30 years of teaching in Mick countries, by the 371 00:21:38,839 --> 00:21:39,079 way. 372 00:21:39,079 --> 00:21:42,700 This was consistent along every country I I was in. 373 00:21:42,759 --> 00:21:43,240 What was it? 374 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,464 What were those what were those countries just for out of curiosity? 375 00:21:46,845 --> 00:21:47,345 Sure. 376 00:21:47,805 --> 00:21:53,904 It was actually Germany, Japan, China, Canada, and the US. 377 00:21:54,140 --> 00:21:54,779 That I Mick? 378 00:21:54,779 --> 00:21:57,100 Oh, you you've got a lot of air miles there. 379 00:21:57,100 --> 00:21:57,420 Yeah. 380 00:21:57,420 --> 00:21:58,400 I got a couple. 381 00:21:59,100 --> 00:22:06,355 And, so The 210 rule basically says that for every 2 minutes, you have an interaction with 382 00:22:06,355 --> 00:22:07,095 your customer. 383 00:22:07,315 --> 00:22:09,174 So don't go farther than that. 384 00:22:09,910 --> 00:22:13,450 You can go shorter than that if you want, but don't go beyond 2 minutes. 385 00:22:13,910 --> 00:22:18,630 And at the end of every 10 minutes, make sure that you kinda round it all up. 386 00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:22,394 You some made So, Mick, I've been talking for the past 10 minutes. 387 00:22:22,774 --> 00:22:24,615 Let me just make sure we're on the same page. 388 00:22:24,615 --> 00:22:25,835 Do you have any questions? 389 00:22:27,150 --> 00:22:31,869 The important thing to understand about the 210 Mick is that it's the police taper on the 390 00:22:31,869 --> 00:22:32,369 timing. 391 00:22:32,990 --> 00:22:37,744 It can be every 30 seconds you interact and every 2 minutes you round things up, or it can 392 00:22:37,744 --> 00:22:43,524 be every minute you interact in every 5 minutes you try to to summit. 393 00:22:43,940 --> 00:22:45,960 But what it does is it creates a cadence. 394 00:22:46,339 --> 00:22:46,819 I talk. 395 00:22:46,819 --> 00:22:47,380 You talk. 396 00:22:47,380 --> 00:22:47,940 I talk. 397 00:22:47,940 --> 00:22:48,660 You talk. 398 00:22:48,660 --> 00:22:51,960 And then we summarize to make sure we're on the same page. 399 00:22:52,625 --> 00:22:58,144 So all I did was wrap a timer around it and start to teach it, and the results were 400 00:22:58,144 --> 00:22:58,644 amazing. 401 00:22:59,799 --> 00:23:00,119 Yeah. 402 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:01,420 I like that, Jake. 403 00:23:02,039 --> 00:23:07,099 My my, great sales mentor was a character, Jerry. 404 00:23:07,355 --> 00:23:09,674 He said, mate, you got you got two ears and one mouth. 405 00:23:09,674 --> 00:23:15,775 I want you to use them in those proportions, which was a very basic message of don't talk 406 00:23:15,835 --> 00:23:16,894 all of the time. 407 00:23:17,259 --> 00:23:20,859 I think you've brought a level of sophistication and clarity to it, Jake, which 408 00:23:20,859 --> 00:23:24,880 is, you know, just don't get into a monologue or a soliloquy. 409 00:23:25,585 --> 00:23:30,944 And just rant and and try and get all of your points out, you know, in 10 minutes, you know, 410 00:23:30,944 --> 00:23:33,669 stop and, you know, ask questions. 411 00:23:33,730 --> 00:23:39,490 And then in the summary, you're demonstrating a very powerful sales skill, which is active 412 00:23:39,490 --> 00:23:39,990 listening. 413 00:23:40,265 --> 00:23:41,484 Did I hear you correctly? 414 00:23:41,625 --> 00:23:47,384 And it gives you an opportunity to perhaps say what you heard in a different set of words so 415 00:23:47,384 --> 00:23:51,769 that the person you're talking to goes, ah, Jake's really got it. 416 00:23:51,769 --> 00:23:57,664 He's listened to me and he's playing it Mick, not by rote, but he's interpreted it put it in 417 00:23:57,664 --> 00:24:00,484 his own words, I'm feeling that we are communicating. 418 00:24:00,704 --> 00:24:03,765 We have a dialogue, not a one way conversation. 419 00:24:04,464 --> 00:24:11,430 So I like that 210 you know, cadence, 2 minutes stop, ask a couple of questions, move along, 420 00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:16,794 and then, you know, in an hour meeting, if you didn't check, you were on the right course, 10 421 00:24:16,794 --> 00:24:21,914 minutes in, you you you could be in a Holly wrong destination by the end of it. 422 00:24:21,914 --> 00:24:23,454 So I love the little checkpoint. 423 00:24:24,059 --> 00:24:29,039 And to help you recalibrate and redirect based on their feedback. 424 00:24:29,740 --> 00:24:35,465 And you bring up an excellent point, Meg, that you can get so far out that it's tough to turn 425 00:24:35,465 --> 00:24:35,965 back. 426 00:24:36,105 --> 00:24:40,505 They actually did some research on this, and I found this to be true that for every 10 minutes 427 00:24:40,505 --> 00:24:45,519 you talk, you generate about 2 minutes of questions with whoever you're talking to. 428 00:24:45,820 --> 00:24:47,100 And when that's a 429 00:24:47,340 --> 00:24:47,660 Stop. 430 00:24:47,660 --> 00:24:47,980 Stop. 431 00:24:47,980 --> 00:24:49,019 Stop there, Jake. 432 00:24:49,019 --> 00:24:49,920 Stop it. 433 00:24:50,325 --> 00:24:50,804 Scissors. 434 00:24:50,804 --> 00:24:51,704 Listen to that. 435 00:24:51,765 --> 00:24:57,765 Every 10 minutes you talk, you generate 2 minutes worth of questions, which are which are 436 00:24:57,765 --> 00:24:58,904 now in your head. 437 00:24:59,559 --> 00:24:59,880 Right? 438 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:04,380 And and they're they're they're desperate to leap out of there, but but if you don't give 439 00:25:04,919 --> 00:25:10,024 your listener the chance, then their head starts to get scrambled, I guess. 440 00:25:10,804 --> 00:25:11,944 Exactly right. 441 00:25:12,164 --> 00:25:14,184 And then something miraculous happens. 442 00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:20,869 When and this is something I'm not sure I hear often enough in the sales training realm is 443 00:25:20,869 --> 00:25:25,835 that the listening is great and going back and forth great, but here's the benefit to 444 00:25:25,835 --> 00:25:31,055 salespeople is if you and I have a good back and forth, and I'm generally interest genuinely 445 00:25:31,194 --> 00:25:33,970 interested, you start to like me. 446 00:25:34,509 --> 00:25:40,315 And what happens is me making you feel good is what makes you like me. 447 00:25:40,315 --> 00:25:45,455 And what that does is that sets a precedent for conversations to come. 448 00:25:45,755 --> 00:25:50,690 So I'm not only helping myself with this conversation, but when I call Mick back. 449 00:25:51,070 --> 00:25:55,869 If we had a great conversation, he felt good, he's gonna pick up that phone, and he's gonna 450 00:25:55,869 --> 00:25:57,890 be very open to what I have to say. 451 00:25:58,345 --> 00:26:03,065 So the benefit is is of course the active listening, but, man, it's that feel good. 452 00:26:03,065 --> 00:26:08,730 It's that little bit of an endorphin rush you get from being heard and acknowledged and 453 00:26:08,730 --> 00:26:10,349 wanting to have that happen again. 454 00:26:11,690 --> 00:26:18,035 So let me ask you this, Jake, in terms of, you know, having the right kind of cadence. 455 00:26:18,095 --> 00:26:21,875 What's your perspective on a sales script? 456 00:26:23,830 --> 00:26:24,890 It's a good question. 457 00:26:25,349 --> 00:26:28,170 I have a love hate relationship with sales scripts. 458 00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:31,414 So in the beginning, when a rep's just getting started. 459 00:26:31,475 --> 00:26:35,975 I don't think the value of a sales script can be oversold. 460 00:26:36,595 --> 00:26:40,134 I think they need a foundation, a backbone from which to start. 461 00:26:40,980 --> 00:26:46,279 The issue that I have with the sales script is that once a representative finds their voice 462 00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:52,835 and they find their pattern and they find their cadence, The script should be tossed aside. 463 00:26:54,015 --> 00:26:56,674 One of the things I emphasize highly is being adaptive. 464 00:26:57,380 --> 00:27:02,120 And being adaptive means that your script isn't always gonna go as planned. 465 00:27:03,140 --> 00:27:07,714 And if you get good enough of conversation, and good enough with allowing a cadence. 466 00:27:08,575 --> 00:27:12,654 You're every 2 minutes when you do an interaction, it's gonna give you a pause to 467 00:27:12,654 --> 00:27:13,154 readjust. 468 00:27:13,819 --> 00:27:19,099 Every 10 minutes when you ask to to summarize and ask for any questions, you get a pause to 469 00:27:19,099 --> 00:27:19,599 readjust. 470 00:27:20,914 --> 00:27:30,640 So the 210 rule factors into the cadence to hopefully decrease Mick, reliance on a script I 471 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:36,900 think if a person's on a script after the 1st 2 weeks, you need to look for somebody else. 472 00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:38,740 And that's not meant to be insulting. 473 00:27:39,224 --> 00:27:44,125 It's meant to say that salespeople are some of the most gifted orators on the planet. 474 00:27:44,585 --> 00:27:49,240 And being a gifted ordered means you don't have to rely on a script. 475 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,099 You can adapt on the fly. 476 00:27:52,039 --> 00:27:54,299 I hope you don't get too much hate mail on that. 477 00:27:54,785 --> 00:27:55,105 No. 478 00:27:55,105 --> 00:27:56,945 I I I support what you're saying, Jake. 479 00:27:56,945 --> 00:28:02,144 I believe that in the beginning, a sales script is absolutely essential because you're you're a 480 00:28:02,144 --> 00:28:02,865 little at sea. 481 00:28:02,865 --> 00:28:03,924 You're a little nervous. 482 00:28:04,039 --> 00:28:08,140 And and you need and if you don't have a road map to follow, you can get lost. 483 00:28:08,519 --> 00:28:08,759 So you 484 00:28:08,759 --> 00:28:11,720 need to have a script that's got a series of steps to it. 485 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,000 I know I've gotten this far. 486 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:19,625 I know I need to say these things, and it gives you the ability to, at least have something 487 00:28:19,625 --> 00:28:21,965 that helps you marshal your thoughts. 488 00:28:22,664 --> 00:28:30,230 But but what what I'm I'm thinking in what I've learned in in what you said, Jake, is in the 489 00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:33,465 script itself, I would build the 210. 490 00:28:34,005 --> 00:28:39,785 I would actually build in the script 2 minutes, ask a question, and then after 10 minutes, 491 00:28:40,339 --> 00:28:46,900 pause and say, this is this is what I think I heard is that is would that be your 492 00:28:46,900 --> 00:28:47,400 understanding? 493 00:28:48,180 --> 00:28:55,204 And you build that little bit of flexibility, even though when I'm I'm I'm still pretty 494 00:28:55,204 --> 00:28:57,365 staccato, I'm following the rules. 495 00:28:57,365 --> 00:29:02,319 I've got my training wheels on it does give you a little bit of and eventually, you know, you 496 00:29:02,319 --> 00:29:03,839 you can you can let that go. 497 00:29:03,839 --> 00:29:04,799 The flow comes. 498 00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:06,900 The voice comes as you've talked about. 499 00:29:07,174 --> 00:29:11,974 And now we can adapt, but we must never forget these points where we want to give that 500 00:29:11,974 --> 00:29:15,115 opportunity for that feedback, for that interaction. 501 00:29:15,710 --> 00:29:21,809 That cadence to change for the for the for you for you to give your, you know, your, prospect 502 00:29:22,190 --> 00:29:25,695 the opportunity to you know, give their voice to that conversation. 503 00:29:25,995 --> 00:29:27,535 So I I I like that. 504 00:29:27,674 --> 00:29:33,369 The script, you know, have the 210 cadence built into it until you can get flow. 505 00:29:33,589 --> 00:29:39,714 And then as you become more skilled, just remind yourself Sometimes we get a little 506 00:29:39,714 --> 00:29:40,195 excited. 507 00:29:40,195 --> 00:29:41,974 We forget the 210, don't we? 508 00:29:42,674 --> 00:29:43,174 Yeah. 509 00:29:43,394 --> 00:29:47,414 And one thing I tell people is that everybody can do this. 510 00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:49,269 We do it as kids. 511 00:29:49,269 --> 00:29:51,430 Think of two five year olds talking to each other. 512 00:29:51,670 --> 00:29:52,309 That's my mom. 513 00:29:52,309 --> 00:29:53,269 Which one is yours? 514 00:29:53,269 --> 00:29:53,910 I like black. 515 00:29:53,910 --> 00:29:54,734 What do you like? 516 00:29:54,815 --> 00:29:55,855 I really dig trucks. 517 00:29:55,855 --> 00:29:56,835 Do you like trucks? 518 00:29:57,054 --> 00:30:01,134 You know, it's a natural 210, and and it's even shorter than that. 519 00:30:01,134 --> 00:30:01,375 Right? 520 00:30:01,375 --> 00:30:05,490 It's 30 seconds every 2 minutes, whatever you wanna call it. 521 00:30:06,029 --> 00:30:12,244 I just truly feel that when people get on the phone to sell a product, or as entrepreneurs, 522 00:30:12,384 --> 00:30:13,684 they go to sell themselves. 523 00:30:15,025 --> 00:30:18,565 Somehow that just goes away and we shift into another gear. 524 00:30:18,910 --> 00:30:24,049 And my job is to get people to harken back to that and redevelop it. 525 00:30:24,269 --> 00:30:27,329 And with some people, it's a day, with other people, it's weeks. 526 00:30:28,775 --> 00:30:32,715 So, Jake, let me do a 210 on you. 527 00:30:32,775 --> 00:30:35,195 Let's see if I've understood what you've said. 528 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:44,154 I'm I'm taking away 3 powerful thoughts that, our sizzlers listening to this call can take 529 00:30:44,154 --> 00:30:45,934 away and really utilize. 530 00:30:46,394 --> 00:30:53,214 Number 1, it's it's overcoming that pavlovian conditioning that when the the phone rings 531 00:30:53,819 --> 00:30:58,380 right, using the the normal words isn't gonna get you there, but some kind of pattern 532 00:30:58,380 --> 00:31:03,684 interrupt is really, really, which is either being very, very straightforward or saying 533 00:31:03,684 --> 00:31:07,224 something that you learned about their company, and that's the reason for your call. 534 00:31:08,565 --> 00:31:17,070 That's secondly that, I love that this one that for every 10 minutes of of of speaking, you 535 00:31:17,070 --> 00:31:18,769 generate 2 minutes of questions. 536 00:31:19,549 --> 00:31:25,394 Therefore, 210 gives you the opportunity at those points to ask. 537 00:31:25,615 --> 00:31:26,994 Do you have any questions? 538 00:31:28,230 --> 00:31:31,769 Because we know that they do because I've been speaking for a while. 539 00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:38,345 And and the one thing I would encourage is that not to become then another conditioning? 540 00:31:38,964 --> 00:31:44,319 You know, we say, got any questions when you're not really expecting them to say anything, and 541 00:31:44,319 --> 00:31:46,480 the prospects not expecting to say anything. 542 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,279 They just let you move on, and you and you sort of sit back. 543 00:31:49,279 --> 00:31:49,440 No. 544 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:49,599 No. 545 00:31:49,599 --> 00:31:52,480 Really, you know, I have been talking for quite some time. 546 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:57,994 I'm I know he will have some questions and then you pause and stay silent and give them the 547 00:31:57,994 --> 00:32:05,250 opportunity to then vocalize their questions as opposed to just, you know, the bell going and 548 00:32:05,250 --> 00:32:06,950 you just keep barreling on. 549 00:32:07,410 --> 00:32:08,424 So did I 550 00:32:09,225 --> 00:32:09,705 Go ahead. 551 00:32:09,705 --> 00:32:14,924 Did I did did did I did I summarize you some of your teachings, preferably there? 552 00:32:15,057 --> 00:32:16,769 Mick you for that. 553 00:32:16,769 --> 00:32:21,670 And and, Mick, you hit on something really cool too is the silence piece. 554 00:32:22,369 --> 00:32:28,545 They just did a study not long ago that found that Americans in general find it very 555 00:32:28,545 --> 00:32:31,684 difficult to deal with up to 4 seconds of silence. 556 00:32:32,359 --> 00:32:37,559 They found in Japan, they can deal up to 8 seconds of silence with no problem in a 557 00:32:37,559 --> 00:32:38,059 conversation. 558 00:32:39,399 --> 00:32:46,994 So silence is so important because if you can stay quiet, it almost forces the other person 559 00:32:47,134 --> 00:32:47,955 to talk. 560 00:32:48,390 --> 00:32:53,269 Scientists actually think it triggers the fight or flight syndrome in your brain, and that's 561 00:32:53,269 --> 00:32:55,130 why we get so uncomfortable with silence. 562 00:32:55,190 --> 00:32:57,144 But Mick what you said is brilliant. 563 00:32:57,205 --> 00:33:03,545 After you ask that question, just be quiet and let them share what they're thinking. 564 00:33:04,690 --> 00:33:07,410 I think it's another element of Cadence, Jake. 565 00:33:07,410 --> 00:33:15,384 It's that, you know, we've now also slowed down and created a moment for that vacuum to be 566 00:33:15,384 --> 00:33:19,325 filled with thoughts coming from coming from them. 567 00:33:19,679 --> 00:33:21,519 And, we get so excited sometimes. 568 00:33:21,519 --> 00:33:25,700 We're trying to get to the close, and we haven't really given the opportunity to hear 569 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,674 what the the prospect really wants to talk about Holly wants to say. 570 00:33:30,054 --> 00:33:30,554 Fabulous. 571 00:33:31,015 --> 00:33:37,990 Well, look, I got a couple of questions for you, Jake, that, I ask all my guests so I'm 572 00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:38,490 curious. 573 00:33:39,350 --> 00:33:41,130 What was your first sale? 574 00:33:43,085 --> 00:33:45,985 Well, this is an odd one because it's not a traditional sale. 575 00:33:47,164 --> 00:33:51,985 When I was living at home many, many moons ago, I got my first tattoo. 576 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:59,984 And I think that my sale was selling my mom not to fly off the deep end. 577 00:34:00,224 --> 00:34:01,585 And it was a great sale. 578 00:34:01,585 --> 00:34:05,204 I had, boy, I had nailed this script. 579 00:34:05,265 --> 00:34:07,924 I was ready to to defend everything. 580 00:34:09,079 --> 00:34:16,974 It it was really well laid out and, I sold her not to kill me or or to use a you know, cheese 581 00:34:16,974 --> 00:34:22,414 grater to get it off my Mick, but I remember it was a terrifying first sale, and this was when 582 00:34:22,414 --> 00:34:23,929 I was in my teens. 583 00:34:24,630 --> 00:34:31,434 So, I think that's the 1st real life changing sale I've ever made. 584 00:34:32,715 --> 00:34:33,215 Excellent. 585 00:34:33,275 --> 00:34:33,755 Excellent. 586 00:34:33,755 --> 00:34:35,295 I can see you're a bit of a rebel. 587 00:34:35,355 --> 00:34:36,255 I like it. 588 00:34:36,474 --> 00:34:37,275 I like it. 589 00:34:37,275 --> 00:34:44,289 And then and then the second question, what was the most creative way you got a new customer? 590 00:34:46,750 --> 00:34:53,655 So when I was in pharmaceuticals, Mick had a product that, as you know, it takes him a while 591 00:34:53,655 --> 00:34:55,835 to to kick in and to become effective. 592 00:34:56,534 --> 00:35:01,960 And we had a competitor that became effective a long time later after you had taken our 593 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:02,460 product. 594 00:35:03,079 --> 00:35:10,974 So one technique I used to use was if I presented to a clinician at lunchtime and my 595 00:35:10,974 --> 00:35:15,855 product kicked in, I think it was at that time, and it's been a while since I've sold it. 596 00:35:15,855 --> 00:35:19,690 But it it the product kicked in like 14 to 16 hours later. 597 00:35:20,389 --> 00:35:25,690 And so I would set my alarm, and I would call the answering service. 598 00:35:25,764 --> 00:35:28,025 And I would say, don't bother the doctor. 599 00:35:28,404 --> 00:35:33,199 Just take a note and tell him Jake said our product just kicked in. 600 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,699 Then I would set another alarm, and I would call them later on for when my competitors 601 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:42,179 product kicked in, and I would leave another message for the answering service. 602 00:35:42,775 --> 00:35:44,155 And it was amazing. 603 00:35:44,534 --> 00:35:51,914 It it really worked because in my earlier days of sales, I was that guy that fact vomited. 604 00:35:52,190 --> 00:35:54,530 So I knew they weren't taking everything away. 605 00:35:55,230 --> 00:36:01,170 And so I thought maybe by hitting home when we kick in versus how our competitors kicked in, 606 00:36:01,925 --> 00:36:03,125 it would make a difference. 607 00:36:03,125 --> 00:36:07,125 And I can tell you pretty conclusively it made a huge difference because I would inevitably 608 00:36:07,125 --> 00:36:11,530 get a call from a doctor somebody saying, I can't believe you called me at 2 AM just to 609 00:36:11,530 --> 00:36:12,429 tell me that. 610 00:36:12,730 --> 00:36:14,190 So it it was very impactful. 611 00:36:15,369 --> 00:36:19,675 That's a great story, and I think you just shared with me before we come into studio that 612 00:36:19,675 --> 00:36:23,355 you were the top salesperson globally for your company. 613 00:36:23,355 --> 00:36:25,835 So that's that's a really innovative approach. 614 00:36:25,835 --> 00:36:26,394 I love it. 615 00:36:26,394 --> 00:36:26,875 I love it. 616 00:36:26,875 --> 00:36:27,614 Thank you. 617 00:36:27,730 --> 00:36:31,010 Well, look, Jake, I've enjoyed speaking with you today. 618 00:36:31,010 --> 00:36:36,150 You shared some really, really good, points, which I'll include in the show notes. 619 00:36:37,635 --> 00:36:40,375 How can people get in connect in contact with you? 620 00:36:40,994 --> 00:36:44,994 I have 2 key ways people can get in touch with me that you can either go to 621 00:36:44,994 --> 00:36:45,494 jakestalkconsulting.com. 622 00:36:47,150 --> 00:36:52,449 And reach me there, or my preferred method of communication is reach out to me on LinkedIn. 623 00:36:52,670 --> 00:36:55,170 I'm on under Jake Stahl on LinkedIn. 624 00:36:56,025 --> 00:37:01,625 I have a newsletter called Fresh from Jake's Mick lab where I put out weird tips, like, you 625 00:37:01,625 --> 00:37:05,920 know, 2 minutes of questions for every 10 minutes of presenting or you know, how long 626 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,699 silence is based on culture. 627 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,380 So please feel free to reach out to me there or my website. 628 00:37:12,454 --> 00:37:12,954 Fabulous. 629 00:37:13,335 --> 00:37:13,835 Fabulous. 630 00:37:14,375 --> 00:37:21,329 And and that's jjakeandstyleissta Holly listeners. 631 00:37:21,390 --> 00:37:23,570 So you'll find him on on LinkedIn. 632 00:37:24,829 --> 00:37:33,684 So thanks for sharing your learnings across those Mick countries and 10,000 people, and you 633 00:37:33,684 --> 00:37:40,480 distilled it into 3 beautiful nuggets that, the audience can play with and practice with. 634 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,920 So, Jake, thank you for coming on the show, and good luck with you. 635 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,565 What what's the title of your book when's it gonna come out? 636 00:37:47,284 --> 00:37:50,344 The book, I'm hoping, again, fingers crossed May. 637 00:37:50,885 --> 00:37:55,364 May of 2024, and it's gonna be the 210 rule why Cadence Trump's 638 00:37:55,364 --> 00:37:55,864 content. 639 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:58,599 We'll look out for that. 640 00:37:58,599 --> 00:38:00,860 I'll I'll like a signed copy, please, Jay. 641 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:01,660 Absolutely. 642 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:03,160 Alright. 643 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:04,039 Well, thank you. 644 00:38:04,039 --> 00:38:08,934 And, uh-uh listeners will see you on the show next week. 645 00:38:08,994 --> 00:38:09,494 Goodbye.