Part Two, Rejected, Cursed, and Abused to Deliverance and Freedom

[Music]

 

Dr. Ray: Hello, everyone. I'm Dr. Ray Self, and welcome to my show, Self Talk. This is going to be a really special show because I have a special guest. Actually, our most popular guest ever, and that is Apostle Norma. Apostle Norma Hawkins is out of Texas. Uh, we're going to finish and talk more about her incredible story, you know, from rejected and cursed and abandoned and you know, you name it, she went through it to delivered and free and now a very powerful deliverance minister and, and also minister of spiritual cleansing. We want to get into that. The show is brought to you by the International College of Ministry, and uh, it's um, we are enrolling. We also have a special right now. Uh, $300 off your tuition if you enroll by Thanksgiving; so, you got to hurry. But anyway, uh, thank you for listening to this show, and uh, let's get started. Uh, be sure and share and subscribe and do all the cool things you're supposed to do. So, thank you so much. So, let's pray. Heavenly Father, I thank you for today. I thank you for this show. Holy Spirit, have your way. I ask you to bless Dr. Norma, Apostle Norma. Bless this time. Bless those that are listening, in the name of Jesus. Amen. 

 

Well, Apostle Norma, it's so good to have you. And uh, I remember our interview that we did, I guess it was what, eight months ago, nine months ago? Um, and the, the title of it was so, so amazing and so…is so true that it was just hard to believe. The title of our show with you, our last show we did was called Rejected, Cursed, and Abused, which is true, to Delivered and Free. And it's just an amazing story. And so, you've shared a lot about child– your childhood trauma, and a lot of abuse and abandonment and cursing. I mean, literally curses placed on you and all of that. And then toward the end of the show, we got into the story of your daughter, which was, um, an incredible story of what you went through with your daughter who's now with the Lord. And that's uh, that story alone was just, you know, incredible. There's so much we could talk about, but some of our listeners and have told you that they want to hear more like what happened after your daughter went to be with the Lord. And before we finish the show, I want people to know more about your ministry, your deliverance ministry in the ministry, and how you're getting people set free and how that happens and how popular that is because I think it's, it's just got to be amazing, and I want to be a part of it. So, anyway, welcome, Apostle Norma. I'm so glad you're with us.

 

Apostle Norma: Thank you, Dr. Self. I'm glad to be back.

 

Dr. Ray: So, where, I guess where we left off was you, you know, went through a lot with your daughter and finally had to uh, I guess, release her to the Lord, and just tell us more like what happened after that or what– just tell us, start where you want to start. 

 

Apostle Norma: Well, after um, my daughter, I– she went home to be with the Lord and we had the memorial service and, and after I took some time off, uh, because like I say all the time I was a, a mother also that lost her only daughter. And so I took some time off, and I was still…thank God I'm a deliverance minister, so I know not to, to covenant with grief or…but I did take some time where I was, spent some time, probably about a month and a half like in different hotels in Missouri because I didn't want to come home and then God had that time also to heal uh, my broken heart and uh, you know, even though was I saved and I loved the Lord and, and, and I was called and chosen, I was still a human and a mother and my heart was broken to lose my only daughter. And um, I, I think I, I was in Missouri, and my cousin knew this lady. She's a general older lady, and she said, "I want you come, go to this church and meet, meet this uh, her and I said, "Okay." I call her uh, pastor D. So I went to meet Pastor D. And the lady had never seen me before. So she had me get in her chair, and she began to just uh, uh, lay hands on me and pray for me. She began to speak to me about my daughter, and she said that God was going to heal the crack in my heart for my daughter. And then she told me, and I'd never heard this before, and she told me that– she said, "Have you ever heard that uh, God would seal your– He's going to seal your heart, your crack in your heart with liquid gold." And so I'm looking at her like, "No, I've never heard of that before." And she told me, she said, "Well, because He loves you so much, He's going to seal that crack in your heart with liquid gold." And so, she prayed for me and, you know, and, and I went on, and God be that healing process uh, uh, in my heart. 

 

And so, I still sat down and rest for a while. Even after He healed my heart, I sat down. I didn't do any deliverance or anything for a while. And then in 2021, um, I went to this church. My daughter was um, with this, friends with this man at Nestle. She worked for Nestle's water company. She was friends with him. And so even after she went on to be with the Lord, I still became friends with him. He started a church. I went to his church because I had, you know, even on being a deliverance minister, stuff, I just kind of shut it down, you know. And um, but God wouldn't let me be still. You– there was people that still needed ministering to or whatever. And I find myself uh, the Holy Spirit telling me this person's got this, and this person needs this. And, and what really, God did to really uh, I'll say um, bring me out of it or bring me back to where He had um, uh, called me to do was inner healing and deliverance, was, I was in, in this church one Sunday and they brought this gentleman in and he had been…demonic spirits were tormenting him so that he wouldn't even come out of the house. The wife was calling and looking for somebody to help her husband because of spiritual torment. He wouldn't come out of the house. He wouldn't do anything. And so the minister at the church I was at told her to bring him to church that Sunday. And he came to church that Sunday. And um, so as other people were prophesying and giving these other words to him, I'm no prophet that God says you don't prophesy houses, cars, lands, and husbands, I take you to the to the um, deep dark places in people and you can see and put your finger on things that other people can't see. And this is what the Holy Spirit does with me. 

 

And so when, when my turn came to minister to him, uh, the Holy Spirit said he had a spirit of fear that opened the door and was tormenting him. And uh, and God gave me a time frame, which sometimes He never really does, but this time frame, He gave me to tell Him that if the ministry said if you stay up under this ministry for 6 months and you, you be faithful and you sit here and you learn, uh, God said, and He'll restore you in six months. And so, but I did what God said to do. I, I, I called the spirit of fear out of him and, and some other spirits, and minister to him. And um, and God did it six months. Matter of fact, to this day, he's still he's fine serving, you know, in the, still in that church serving, but he got delivered. But the wife was so uh, um, amazed, and it's God, to Jesus Christ be all the glory, the praise, and uh, the Holy Spirit. I take no praise and no glory. But to this day, the wife called the pastor back and she said, "My husband would not leave the house. He was afraid to leave the house and, and, and our house was just like basically in chaos.” But she didn't call me the apostle or the prophet. She called me that woman. She said, “That woman, that woman, what she said to my husband, uh, freed my husband and he's free.” And so, you know, I knew then I was like, "Okay, God." He never left me, you know, I never left Him, but it was just that season of rest. And so it was time now for me to come out of rest and, and go forward on what He had called me to do. 

 

Dr. Ray: You know, that's, that's, that's [clears throat] so interesting because what I see here happening here is you're, you're moving prophetically, which is uh, keying the inner healing in this man, and you, and also the time frame worked out perfectly. 

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm.

 

Dr. Ray: So, you know, I, I love to flow in the prophetic gift, and it's so important. And I want to ask you, can give me the relationship between the prophetic gift and inner healing and deliverance? Because, and I think inner healing and deliverance sometimes are connected, sometimes they're different. But what's the connection between the prophetic inner healing and deliverance? 

 

Apostle Norma: For us, or for me, when it, when um, the inner healing and deliverance you have to have them both because some…I'll say sometimes God, we, we teach on the inner healing where you, you know, we go in, the Holy Spirit goes in and and deals with childhood issues, you know, arrested development, uh, all those things that happened in your childhood, but also uh, we need the prophetic sometimes to be able to, to go back and see uh, what it was that happened to you. You know, we have discerning the spirit. So, we can discern the spirits that are operating you– But the prophetic will take us back to uh, uh, we can go, we'll go back in the Spirit takes us back in the spirit realm to see uh, that uh, a child was molested or a child was abused or, or certain things happened. So we operate, uh, with both of them and um…yes… 

 

Dr. Ray: It's, really, this is like the gift of the seer.

 

Apostle Norma: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: And so the Lord allows you to see what happened and when it happened and, and what the effect was and, that, and, and because of that, then you can speak to that and address that and bring the healing to that.

 

Apostle Norma: Yes. We had some people, lady we was counseling and, and the Holy Spirit just does, you know, and sometimes I'm just, I'm so amazed myself when He says things because there's spirits and things He'll give us while we're ministering to people that, I'm looking like, “I've never, never heard of this before,” but the Holy Spirit knows everything. And so we had a lady that we, was counseling to, and she was sitting, we talk about the prophetic and healing, deliverance, connecting, and working together. And so she's on Zoom because we do a lot of– every, a lot of, majority of stuff is on Zoom. She's on Zoom. I'm looking at her and the Holy Spirit speaks to me and says in, with the prophetic, He says, “Ask her, go back, have her go back and ask her about a conversation with her stepfather.”

 

Dr. Ray: Wow.

 

Apostle Norma: And so, I'm like, okay. So I said, “The Holy Spirit told me that there was…I'm seeing a, a, a conversation with your stepfather.” Uh and, and so then she began to tear up, and she began– she told she's basically like, “How did you know?” It was the Holy Spirit and, and the gift of prophetic took us back there, took me back there; and then she said, you know, what, what the conversation was. And so, um, that's how he, they, they mesh and come together. We need the prophetic along with the inner healing and the deliverance. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. So I got a question. So, um, and I, again, the Lord lets me flow prophetically, and I do see things a lot– and a lot, many times, with me, the Lord will show me the past of a person. He'll talk to me about their present, and then He'll give me a prophetic word about their future. And He's done that with me for years. So what– the prophetic gift is so powerful in inner healing. But then there's deliverance. So, at some point, you say you went back, and you saw the abuse and, and then you're able to minister to that. But deliverance, there's got to be some demonic interference that comes in. What I see a lot of times with trauma is there's trauma and then here comes Satan in the midst of all that with his schemes and his demon– and oppression and all, all his weapons, and that has to be cast out.

 

Apostle Norma: Yeah. Yeah. When we do deliverance on people, we, we go after the spirit of trauma. It's a spirit. We…and however it entered, whether it was through an accident or a childhood molestation, we go after that trauma. But then there are other spirits that attach to it. So we don't just have, go only, just go after trauma. I'll give you another example. There was a young– a woman. And she's a grown 50, almost 60-year-old woman, and we were ministering to her, and um, she had trauma from her childhood like a 5-year-old little girl. And so we were ministering to her, and we begin to call out the spirit of trauma, uh, in her and went after these– and we, and we go after that little boy or that little girl because wherever you get wounded or hurt at is at arrested development that little boy or that little girl is in you. So we go after the little boy and the little girl. You traumatized little girl. You molested little girl. You raped little girl. You abused little girl. And we go, and I'm telling you, Dr. Self, they come up. Sometimes the little girl will speak out – it's a spirit - will speak out and say, you know, “I've been here a long time. She– I'm her comfort. She don't want me.” And we don't talk. Then we just say, shut up and come out.

And so when we went back, the Holy Spirit had us go back to her childhood as a five-year-old little girl. This is a grown woman. She curled up in, in, in the chair and was in the b– She be to go to that five-year-old little girl to that scene of trauma where the father was abusive to her and her brother and she began to cry, “Daddy, don't do it. Daddy, don't. Stop, Daddy,” you know, and, and so, you know, it was so emotional that the ones us that we were doing the deliverance, that we begin to weep. We had to get ourselves together to continue because the trauma; we could feel that pain and that trauma that that fifty-year-old little girl felt. But now this is a 60-year-old woman. But that 5-year-old little abused little girl is still there. But we cast her out, you know.

 

Dr. Ray: So the demon takes the form of her five-year-old… 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: …past and torments her. And so I guess what happens is as long as that demon's there, there's a constant influence and reminder of that. It, it's still affecting her…

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: …because that, that little traumatized girl is still there. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: So she's 60 years old, and the impact is still impacting her today.

 

Apostle Norma: Yes, yes

 

Dr. Ray: That's powerful. 

 

Apostle Norma: And have you seen grown people, a, a man 30 years old and act like a 5-year-old and throw tantrums and, and, and want their way, wreck– knocking over stuff and everything wanted their way. That 5-year-old or 10-year-old or wherever, they got abused or hurt at, that little boy or little girl is still there. And it's real. We've done multiple, multiple deliverances where we go after the little boy and the little girl. And the Holy Spirit will give us the age. Sometimes we don't know the age, but we'll wait on Him. He say, “It's a six-year-old in there. It's a 10-year-old,” you know, 

 

Dr. Ray: and that's a–…that’s a spirit taking the form of their 5-year-old or 60-year-old…

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: …former self. We literally cannot be that person. 

 

Apostle Norma: No.

 

Dr. Ray: And we're not that person, but that spirit is that person.

 

Apostle Norma: Yes, it is. And it rules them. It, It does rule them, though, until they get delivered from it.

 

Dr. Ray: Wow. And that would explain also, and I, I counsel a lot with arrested development. That would explain arrested development. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yep.

 

Dr. Ray: But then you don't– emotionally you freeze from that point forward, and you don't grow emotionally. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yep. That's it. That's it.

 

Dr. Ray: Wow. That's powerful. That's powerful revelation there. I like that. That's…

 

Apostle Norma: Yeah [laughs] 

 

Dr. Ray: …powerful. 

 

Apostle Norma: Thank you.

 

Dr. Ray: So yeah, I want to get in your deliverance class. Amen. [laughs] Healing class.

 

Apostle Norma: You can. You can [laughter] 

 

Dr. Ray: What I've always seen is this: is whenever there is a traumatic event that hurts us, but then Satan comes in to make it worse, 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: To magnify it, to attach himself to that.

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm.

 

Dr. Ray: So you, you, you get rid of Satan and in, in a way it's, it's, it's kind of good news in a way because we can cast Satan out, 

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm.

 

Dr. Ray: …you know, we can't cast our flesh out.

 

Apostle Norma: No. 

 

Dr. Ray: We can sure get rid of the influence, that demonic influence. Um, but that's interesting when that little girl that's, that constant little six-year-old girl who was traumatized, 

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm.

 

Dr. Ray: She's 60, and she's still feeling that little girl was 6 years old, and she can't get it out of her mind or out of her spirit, or maybe it's subconscious, whatever. It's still there, but then when that spirit leaves, then she gets free. Wow.

 

Apostle Norma: Yeah. Yeah. And that's– and it happens a lot. And this will even teach people and tell them where you got wounded, rejected, or hurt– that demon, because like you said, the demon, demon enters through the trauma, that demon, and he has a legal right because even children are defenseless against demonic spirits. So if you, you're a 5-year-old, 6-year-old, whatever, you’re molested at that age, the trauma, all the stuff that's take– happening, those demons have that open door to enter in.

 

Dr. Ray: So the demon enters. Let's say you were traumatized at seven years old. So, here comes the demon. He enters at that point,

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm.

 

Dr. Ray: And then he takes on that seven-year-old identity. 

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm.

 

Dr. Ray: …Seven-year-old person. And he stays there. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: And he can stay there for 50 years. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yep.

 

Dr. Ray: As a constant reminder and influence and, and to damage you and to never let you forget it and to keep you from moving forward. I, I think it– one of the main things it does, it keeps you from embracing, fulfilling the call of God on your life. 

 

Apostle Norma: That's it. That's it. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yeah…yeah. From fulfilling destiny and purpose. And you know, people…they need to be free. They need to be free. They need to be inner healed and then go through deliverance and, and get set free. And then we talk about paths to freedom. How to stay free after you get free. 

 

Dr. Ray: Mhm.

 

Apostle Norma: It's not just casting the demon out of you and you getting inner healed, but we give you also uh, scriptures and, and everything on how to stay free. 

 

Dr. Ray: How to stay free. And that's important. You know, I've, I've taught a lot, and it's not me exclusively, but there's a difference between abstaining and freedom. What you have is some people doing, is, they're just, “Okay, I don't, I'm no– I don't do that anymore. I won't do that anymore. That's not who– I do not do that.” But they're really not free. They're just abstaining. It's still in there. 

 

Apostle Norma: Right.

 

Dr. Ray: They're just trying to control it. But freedom is, you're not abstaining. It's gone. For instance, 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: …um, many, many years ago, it's actually been a very long time ago, I was a social drinker. You know, uh, I, you drink, so shall I, you know, social drinker. [both laugh] And um, and I got free from that. And, and I got completely free from that. I do not abstain from alcohol at all. It is completely gone.

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray:  It could be 98 degrees outside in the middle of the summer, middle of Florida. You could offer me a cold beer, and I won't drink it. I, I can't drink it. I'm completely free from it. I'm not, I'm not trying to abstain from it. So to me, freedom is so much better than abstinence. And I think that when this demon is cast out, that brings freedom. So you're not just trying to maintain or trying to hold on. You're free.

 

Apostle Norma: Yeah. Yeah. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah, that's so good. 

 

Apostle Norma: Because they deal, you know, they drive you through your will, intellect, and your emotions. They're in your flesh and your soul. And so they basic– control you. I've seen people go from one to z– one to 10 in anger. Just– and have clinched their hands to, and just, you know, and it's that demon, you know, that demon that, that's taken over. And so, yes, people need to be free. I believe in this day and time that we're living in, demons are manifesting more in people, and the body of Christ needs to get on board. People need to have, churches need to have deliverance ministries and the, the pastor need– from the pulpit to the front door needs to be delivered,

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. 

 

Apostle Norma: So that when these people come, they can be set free and, and, and delivered and go set other people free. When we teach our class, we say, "We teach you this class, we give you all of this…” A majority of them come to us for inner healing and deliverance, but we tell them, “Don't just hold this and say, ‘Oh, I got mine, and I'm fine.’” You know, this is to go teach, and it's to go get other people set free. 

 

Dr. Ray: You know, if you think about it, it was part of the ministry of the gospel of Jesus Christ. What did Jesus do? 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: He did deli–. 

 

Apostle Norma: That's what He did. He did.

 

Dr. Ray: And so, deliverance ministry, healing ministry, I think, should be a part of every church. I do– what you just said, I concur. A part of every church in America. Unfortunately, some traditional churches, “Oh no, that stuff's passed away.” That's really terrible doctrine. But it should be a part of the church. It was part of the ministry of Jesus. It was part of His ministry. And uh, gosh, it's so important. It's so important.

 

Apostle Norma: Yeah. And you know, Dr. Self, we have doctors, medical doctors, that are referring people to us that are saying, “I told…” they, they, they themselves went through the class. We– like I told you, several doctors. And they're referring people, say, “You know what, I can't help you, but let me refer you to these two ladies. Let me refer you to them to this ministry and um, and, and see if they can, they can help you.” And they do. And, and they do. You know, they come, and we tell them about um, inner healing, deliverance. Deliverance is for the desperate. This is our, our line we say all the time. “Deliverance is for the desperate. How desperate are you? Are you desperate enough to just let it all out? Tell it, you know, when we give you a mapping, tell the truth. You know, when you fill out your mapping papers to tell the truth, not exaggerate.” Most people, you know, we just want the truth. And the Holy Spirit's gonna make everything known that you try to hide anyway.

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah.

 

Apostle Norma: So…

 

Dr. Ray: And so for y'all are unfamiliar with uh, mapping, that is, literally it's a survey of your past,

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm.

 

Dr. Ray: …asking a lot of very specific questions. So the um, the minister can get a map of what needs to be done, and uh, it's very, very powerful. And I, I didn't hear that term for a long time till just a few years ago, but I think it's, it's very important. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: So tell me about– so you're teaching this, what you're talking about, you're teaching this now through Zoom. So tell me about your ministry, and for those that are listening, how they can connect with it.

 

Apostle Norma: Um, you can connect with us through dallasfreedomoutpost@gmail.com. Um, that's our, that's how, that's our email, and um, our ministry is, like I said, we have five weeks, five months, sorry, five months of teaching. And we teach you about rejection, um, what– fear and pride that comes with rejection. We teach you about uh, uh, ungodly soul ties that you form. Um, we also teach about uh, the sexual demons, Incubus, Succubus, Lilith, how these spirits attach themselves to you, and just how to, to be free from that and, and all the, the strongholds and everything that comes with opening the doors for the demons to come in. We teach people that some people have demonic spirits that they had nothing to do with. They came down through the bloodline. They're in, they come down, ancestral demons, or, or a familiar spirit that's watched the bloodline and waited for someone - come down through the bloodlines and waited for someone to yield to it so it can come in and, and wreak havoc in uh, that person's life that opened the doors. In my family, I talked about, we had a, a familiar spirit of alcoholism. And so my mother was alcoholic. Her brothers were alcoholics. Her sisters were, were alcoholics because this familiar spirit came down from her. My grandmother's brothers were all alcoholics. My grandfather's side. So my mom got up and got a double dose of, of a, of the demon, you know. But um, yeah, and so we teach on that familiar spirits and, and it's just a long uh, it's a, it's a awesome class. It's um, we teach, we tell real stories of what God has done for people to set people free and how uh, He's used o– us to, to get people free, you know, and people, a lot of people like, love the stories. I, I have a, a section there about my daughter that's dedicated to her, and she's got a page where she talks, a page and a half, and she titled it, this is before she, about a couple years before she died, called Knots in My Soul. And she talks about four relationships that she was in and she, and it's just awesome on how God used her to go and tell about each relationship, each guy, each relationship, but she brings it all back to Christ, that Christ was, was the one that delivered her and set her free. She thought that each one of these guys had what it was that she really needed, but they weren't. Deliverance and Christ is what, uh, Christ and deliverance is what set her free.

 

Dr. Ray: Wow. And so that email again, say it one more time. 

 

Apostle Norma: dallasfreedomoutpost@gmail.com. 

 

Dr. Ray: dallasfreedomoutpost@gmail.com. We will also put it in the show notes. So we'll have that. And you are Apostle Norma Hawkins. And so you offer a series of classes that's on Saturday, right?

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: It's a Zoom call. So it's once a week on Saturday. 

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm.

 

Dr. Ray: And what you're going to learn, you're going to learn about deliverance. You're going to learn about inner healing. You'll learn how to get yourself free, and you'll learn how to set others free.

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: You know, the mission statement of all Christians is, the Spirit of the Lord God is upon us to set at liberty those that are captive and to heal the brokenhearted. That's what it's about.

 

Apostle Norma: That's it. That's it…

 

Dr. Ray: …what it's about. This has been very, very uh, very interesting. It really has. I'm, I'm still fascinated about that spirit that takes the form of us at a young age, 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: …you know, that child, that 6-year-old. It could be a six-year-old Ray, you know, or 6-year-old…

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: And um, and it's just there and it and it lives in us.

 

Apostle Norma: It does. 

 

Dr. Ray: And what, what I've seen is so many times, until these things are dealt with, it's manifesting through people's behavior. They're being triggered by it,

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm.

 

Dr. Ray: …but they don't understand…

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: …why they're overreacting in these certain situations.

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: …called triggers, but so many times it is a demon.

 

Apostle Norma: It's a demon. 

 

Dr. Ray: …and, and that trigger can be coming from something that happened to you where the demon entered in. Demons will enter in during traumatic events. And uh, 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: …it could be something to happen to you when you're 6 years old, when you're 7 years old, when you're 8 years old. And um, I know that's true because real quick story for me, I've told this story a few times, but I, I, it's just a powerful example of this, and you have made it so clear to me. When I was in Spain, uh, some years ago, uh, southern Spain is now mostly Muslim and I was ministering in a church in southern Spain and a young Muslim guy came in off the street and I would say maybe he was 18 years old or so, 19, had a very evil look in his face and he was walking down the center, I'm in the front of the church. He's walking down the aisle of the church, coming straight at me, and I'm thinking he's probably got a bomb or he's going to kill me. 

 

Apostle Norma: Uh-huh.

 

Dr. Ray: He just looked– And all of a sudden, the Lord showed me prophetically something that happened to him when he was 12 years old, about how his father had rejected him when he was 12 years old.

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: And uh, an interpreter stopped him, and I spoke that to him. And his eyes got really large. And then I began to speak prophetically some other things about what happened to him when he was a child. The Lord was just showing this to me. 

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm.

 

Dr. Ray: All of a sudden, this young Muslim guy began to cry. Then tears came in his eyes, and he froze, and he started crying harder and harder and harder, and he fell to the ground just weeping and weeping as the Holy Spirit touched him. And then we had some other ministers there, and we grabbed his hand, lifted him up, and he accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior right there. 

 

Apostle Norma: Praise God.

 

Dr. Ray: And the coolest thing I'll never forget was his countenance changed completely from this dark, evil-looking face. His face changed, and he had a face of joy and peace, and love. And he gives me a big old bear hug. And then he starts turning around. He hugs everybody he can see in the church. And he walks out of the church, hugging, with his hands in the air. And I saw him the next day on the street in a little town called Espanon, Spain. And he was still smiling. And he ran across the street to give me another hug. And…

 

Apostle Norma: Oh, praise God.

 

Dr. Ray: …that just reminded me of that story. It was so cool. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah.

 

Apostle Norma: So, yeah, it's, it's a miracle. God, you know, He, He's, people need deliverance. They need inner healing, and we're the ones He's chosen in this day and time to do it. But we're making disciples. That's what we're doing when we teach and set for five months,  we teach faithfully for five months. We're making disciples to go and do what Jesus did. Set the captives free, cast out demons, raise the dead, heal the sick, you know, open blind eyes, unstop ears, preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. And so, you know, that's what we're looking forward to. I told you we're we're going to Baton Rouge. Uh, we'll be in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, December 4th to the 8th, uh, at um, I think it's Transforming Culture Ministries. And we'll be there uh, and we'll– this is what we're going to do. We're going to teach– preach the gospel, but we're also going to minister in the healing and deliverance, uh, to the people.

 

Dr. Ray: We have a lot of friends and, um, churches that I minister with and friends in the Baton Rouge area. So, if you're listening to me, you're in that area, anywhere close to that area, they need to email you at dallasfreedomoutpost@gmail.com. Get information on that. That'd be–

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: …people would come, I'm sure. Cool. Well, you know, Apostle Norma, thank you so much for sharing. There's so– we could be, we could talk for hours on this, I know. 

 

Apostle Norma: Thank you.

 

Dr. Ray: Maybe we may have to do a part three, okay?

 

Apostle Norma: We w– I w–

 

Dr. Ray: Let's do a part three and get more into inner healing and deliverance. 

 

Apostle Norma: Okay.

 

Dr. Ray: More specific. How about that? 

 

Apostle Norma: Let's do that.

 

Dr. Ray: If you’re listening to me, we will do a part three. Um, and we'll just talk inner healing and deliverance the whole time.

 

Apostle Norma: Yeah, okay. 

 

Dr. Ray: …touched on it now, but let's– there's much deeper I know we can go. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: Would you close us with a prayer?

 

Apostle Norma: Sure. Father God, we just thank you in the name of Jesus for what it is that you have done here today. All glory, praise, and honor, dominion, and all power belongs to you. We thank you, Father, for bringing Dr. Self and I together, Lord, that we can even speak over the airways and captives can be set free and broken hearts can be healed. And, and Father, we just thank you for all that you're doing. And we give you all the glory and the praise and the honor. And I thank you, Lord God, for the part three, is going to be greater than the other. People will listen. They will hear. They will want to know. And we thank you, Father God, for all that you have done. In Jesus’ name we pray. Amen. 

Dr. Ray: Amen and aaaa…

 

Apostle Norma: Amen. 

 

Dr. Ray: Well, folks, thank you so much for listening to today's show. My very special guest has been Apostle Norma Hawkins. She's just an incredible, powerful, anointed woman of God. I encourage you to check out her ministry, and the best way to do that is to email her again at dallasfreedomoutpost@gmail.com. dallasfreedomoutpost@gmail.com. Again, thank you for listening. Please go to the website for this show, where you can subscribe, and please share this show, download it, and share it with your friends. It really helps us. The show's been increasing a lot lately, and it's all because of you. If you'd like to donate to help the show, that would be really cool. Do that through icmcollege.org/donate. Got several funds you could donate to. That will help us tremendously. We appreciate you very much. God bless you. This is Dr. Ray Self, and you've been listening to Self Talk with Ray Self and special guest Apostle Norma Hawkins. God bless all of you. Thank you for being a part of today's show. Amen.