Interview with the Fascinating Jay Golden

[Music]

 

Dr. Ray: Hey, welcome to Self Talk. I'm your host, Dr. Ray Self, with my special guest here, Jay Golden. 

 

Jay: Hello there.

 

Dr. Ray: This is going to be a very, very special show. I want to thank you all for joining. We're doing a video podcast today. And as usual, the show is brought to you by International College of Ministry, enrolling right now. If God's called you, you know it's time. Go to icmcollege.org. icmcollege.org. Enrolling 24 hours a day, every day. Work on your own schedule. You know the deal. We appreciate you. But let's get started. I am excited. I've got a friend of mine here that's a, a very unusual guy.

 

Jay: And you're excited? 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah, I'm excited. Can you believe it? You, you know, you know, this, this statement sounds kind of strange, but uh, you may be the world's most interesting man.

 

Jay: Well, I hope not. [Laughter] 

 

Dr. Ray: I mean, maybe besides Jesus. I don't know, but anyway [Laughter]

 

Jay: No. 

 

Dr. Ray: So Mr. J. Golden here is a PGA professional. 

 

Jay: Golf.

 

Dr. Ray: If you know it, that's uh, golf. 

 

Jay: If you know what swing if– you get on the– get there.

 

Dry Ray: [Pretends to swing a golf club]

 

Jay: That's good. He's, you know, can take chopping wood. Now he has to hit a golf ball, which is a whole other story.

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah, I know. That's why the golf ball keeps getting split down the middle. 

 

Jay: I like it.

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah, it's like split, split wood. Split golf balls. You know, I can hit a golf ball as far as I can throw my club, right? 

 

Jay: That's good.

 

Dr. Ray: Okay. So… 

 

Jay: Don't do that. Don't do that. 

 

Dr. Ray: So Jay is a, is a PGA golf professional, teaching professional. Uh, former long drive competitor. Uh, also former golf coach to Arnold Palmer. Now guys, I love golf. So I'm gonna get excited about golf. I know some of my listeners, you're not golfers, but hey, bear with me. It's a great game. And, and I love golf.

 

Jay: For those of you that don't play, you're lucky. Don't tell anyone I said that. [Laughter]

 

Dr. Ray: Jay also is, is a, a well-known comedian, stand-up comedian. I think you've worked with guys like Jerry Seinfeld. 

 

Jay: Well, not exactly, but more golf comedy. I've done a lot of golf comedy. Also, regular comedy, but uh… 

 

Dr. Ray: That's like, it's like my game, right? 

 

Jay: Comedy? 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah.

 

Jay: Well, it's not easy being a comedian with no jokes, but that doesn't stop me, which [laughter] is part of what we're going to talk about today.

 

Dr. Ray: Amen. Um, also, trickshot artist, uh, painter, uh, very renowned painter. More about, is it, um, Monet? Is your… 

 

Jay: Vincent Van Gogh. 

 

Dr. Ray: Vincent Van Gogh. Vincent Van Gogh. Golf Digest did a great article about you some years ago called Golf's Renaissance Man. 

 

Jay: Yes. Because of many of the things- golf inventions, golf arts, golf poems, golf cartoons, golf comedy, videos- right now unemployed in 30 professions, but that's also part of the story today. 

 

Dr. Ray: Unemployed in 30 professions. And it's just a, it's, it's an amazing thing. Every time I'm around him, I find something else he does. I know you're a musician. I know you're a comedian. You're a painter. You're a writer. You're a producer. 

 

Jay: You saw one of my comedy shows.

 

Dr. Ray: I did see one of your comedy shows, and I laughed toward the end when it was over.

 

Jay: You le— It's funny, he could be up there…

 

Dr. Ray: [Laughs]

 

Jay:  …with what he just– 

 

Dr. Ray: No, it's great, great, great…uh, uh, musician, writer. You’re poet, uh, poet.

 

Jay: Straight is great. I wrote that.

 

Dr. Ray: That's so good. Did you think that all by— 

 

Jay: Straighter is greater. 

 

Dr. Ray: I– 

 

Jay: …and straightest is greatest. Those are my three best poems.

 

Dr. Ray: And an impressionist. Especially Rodney Dangerfield. 

 

Jay: Yeah, I do, you know, Rodney Dangerfield. I met him and, and I, like [begins to impersonate Rodney] I'll tell you, golf is tough. Okay. I went to a pro. I said, "How could I take 10 strokes off my game?" He said, "Skip one hole." Okay, I'll tell you it's tough.

 

Dr. Ray: [Laughter] Take a hole out of my game. That is so good. That is so good. But seriously folks, if we can be uh, if you know much about me, you know I'm really big on purpose, you know, uh, re– Redeeming Your Past and Finding Your Promised Land. Getting over your stuff, overcome the schemes of the enemy, and get into your promised land. Your promised land, I believe God has a place for all of us. He called us to be doing what we are created to do. And we want to talk today about purpose and gifting. In the book of Jeremiah, the scripture says, before you were in your mother's womb, God knew you and He ordained you. He was talking to Jeremiah, but the principle is before we were born, we've all been ordained for a purpose. We have gifts, we have talents, we have abilities, and God wants us to do this, to be this, and to operate in this. And Jay, it's very interesting because you have a lot of gifts. 

 

Jay: Well, thanks. But I believe everyone has a lot of gifts. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. 

 

Jay: Everyone has a lot of gifts. You know, they may, someone may say, "Oh, I don't have gifts." Well, you, you could do mechanics. You could cook. You could take care of kids. You could earn a living. You could, uh, sing. You could– everyone has so many gifts. And that's one of my uh, and, but what I've done in terms of golf, let's say. I've been playing golf, uh, my whole life and teaching and learning and been around the game in so many ways, but I have combined my interests, hobbies, and skills with golf. So, since you like golf and you say, "Oh, he's a golf artist and a golf poet and golf singer and, and a golf teacher and a golf comedian." You know, you, like, because– but it's all related to golf. But what I'm saying is that if people have a certain job or you, you like something about life, if you combine your interests, hobbies, and skills with something that you really know, that you really love, it makes you more noticed, whatever that means, for your family. They enjoy it more. People that are in that field, gives you more recognition. Maybe it could lead to better jobs or better promotion or starting something. But if you could combine your interests, hobbies, and skills with, with your main love, let's say, that simplifies it to some extent.

 

Dr. Ray: So you're saying your interests, hobbies, and skills, which you have a lot, all tie into your purpose, your created purpose. 

 

Jay: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: Wow. And so that makes it kind of fun, I would think. 

 

Jay: And you know, as much golf as, as I've played and taught, I, I think I'm the world's greatest teacher because when I give a lesson, that person never comes back. [Dr. Ray laughs] That's how great I am as a teacher. But yeah, that's, that's what I try to do. It's that I tie it in with golf. And as a result, the power of golf, you know, I've been around so many celebrities in every sport and, and politicians and President Bush, the father, we talked about golf and you know, but combining, combining, combining, and that has brought me a lot of notoriety. You know, I kid around, I’m unemployed in 30 professions, and to some extent that's true, that, but I enjoy– it– as much golf as I played, I've gotten much more enjoyment and fulfillment from the golf art, the golf comedy, the golf speeches, the business, talk about business golf. I've gotten more out of it than actually playing the game. 

 

Dr. Ray: And speaking of golf art, you are a prolific artist. You, you, you paint a lot. Matter of fact, I have a number of your paintings. 

 

Jay: And I…talking about numbers, I covered all the numbers, right? When I painted it, I covered the numbers.

 

Dr. Ray: There you go. People don't know it's by the number.

 

Jay: I've done hundreds, maybe a thousand or more paintings. And, and once again, very few have been bought, you know, but I try to make a couple bucks here and there, not really, but I give them away. Give them away. If I could add a little color and a little uh, happiness to someone and their house, for their house as a present. If you– my paintings, if you put it in a guest room, people will not stay as long. These paintings have value. I don't want to tell you what happens when you put them in the bathroom, but it helps you go. 

 

Dr. Ray: Ooh.

 

Jay: But, but I'm just saying that. And, and art is one of the things that I really like, and I like Van Gogh a lot, and I like that type of freedom with painting. And I'm actually going to do a painting as we're speaking, and it's going to be of the 12th hole at Augusta where they have the Master’s, Augusta National. And by coincidence, that's Amen Corner.

 

Dr. Ray: Amen. Amen. You've been a blessing to this ministry. I know a few years ago you have, had done a painting of the three wise men, uh, going to, to Bethlehem, and it's just a gorgeous painting, and you actually donated the painting and a number of prints to the ministry. We've always been very grateful for that. They really helped us a lot. 

 

Jay: Oh, good. 

 

Dr. Ray: And so, uh, it's an amazing– I mean, you know, let me ask you, how many people do you know are renowned painters, comedians, and PGA professionals? 

 

Jay: Hahaha.

 

Dr. Ray: I mean, I mean, you know, you're on a short list for sure.

 

Jay: Yeah. Well, well, thanks. And as we continue to talk, if I may, I'm going to start doing this painting, and I'm doing it for a few reasons, but I just want to say a few things first. First of all, when I do a painting, and if you do a painting, I, I truly believe this, and that is two things are important. Number one, while you're doing it, you're enjoying it. If you like doing er, er, er [mimes painting small straight lines], fine, but I like a lot more freedom. Sort of a Van Gogh impressionism, expressionism. It's freer. It's more, it's…for me, more fun while I do it. That's number one. And number two, you know who I want to like this painting? Me. I want to like it because no matter what painting you do, and this is true whether you're going to…songs or poems or bake a cake or food, some people will like it, and some people won't like it. I believe that the main person with your God-given gift, the main person is for you to like it. So, number one is that it's fun to do. And number two, that I like this painting. I hope you like it. That would be great. And if you want to, uh, donate a million dollars to the ministry, it will be…

 

Dr Ray: I think that's a word. I think–

 

Jay: I’ll even– I'll even sign it, even though that, a lot of times that brings down the value, but I'm going to, hopefully enjoy while I do it, of the 12th hole at Augusta. I'll talk a little bit about the painting while I'm doing it, but hopefully we're going to talk mostly about fulfilling your God-given gifts. 

 

Dr. Ray: And you're, you're talking about God-given gifts. You're talking about purpose. And that's been a passion for my life. Finding, I call it finding and fulfilling your call. I have done conferences all over the US on this particular– and even overseas about finding your call. Um, and Jay is uh, getting ready to show part of his purpose here. I will tell you something about your purpose. When you're doing your purpose, it feels natural. It feels you. You come alive when you're doing it. Maybe it's painting, playing golf. It can be uh, thousands of things, but it makes you feel alive. Also, I'll tell you something I, I've learned about it and something Jay didn't mention. He said, "Yeah, I– it's for me, and I like it,” but normally when you're doing your purpose, other people are benefiting from it.

 

Jay: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: And I cannot tell you how many lives that Jay has touched, not only with his– he doesn't really call himself a minister, but actually he is.

 

Jay: Ha ha.

 

Dr. Ray: He is. He touches a lot of lives. Amen. Touches a lot of lives on the golf course and, um, and he just, he just helps people. He serves people. Uh, he makes people smile. And he paints, he, he makes people laugh. He, he writes beautiful poetry. All this stuff is part of his purpose and his call. And I think it makes you feel alive while you're doing it.

 

Jay: It does. You know, and thank you for saying that. I wouldn't have even thought of that, but he has a way with words. I don't know… Oh, that's because they're from the Bible.

 

Dr. Ray: Could be, yeah.

 

Jay: Good stuff. Anyhow, uh, I don't know…But what you said, it just, it feels natural, you know? It feels like it's your– it's easy to do. It's your purpose. And I agree with that 100%. And you say that I encourage people, that I help people here and there. You know, when you're doing– when you're doing your purpose, you don't even feel that. You just feel like you're being natural, that you– it's in your heart. You're doing it yourself. And this– and let me just explain a little something about this painting right now. This is going to be the sky. Over here, there are going to be uh, trees. There are going to be trees here. Augusta National. And this…over here there's uh, this is where the putting green, there's grass, there's water, and right now I would say I'm finished. I think this is great. I don't care if you like– I love this. 

 

Dr. Ray: It's great. It's– my granddaughter did one just like it just the [laughter] other day. But she's only four.

 

Jay: But in general, what I'm doing is putting in a few lines. See, there's going to be the bridge. There'll be some grass here. The putting green. There's going to be some uh. flowers, some azaleas over here, the, the azaleas. And, but I'm putting some lines in first, just like a coloring book. And it's always a great way to start. And I'm sure there are things in the Bible that, before you do something, set up the foundation. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. 

 

Jay: Is that true? 

 

Dr. Ray: That's absolutely true. 

 

Jay: In what way is that true?

 

Dr. Ray: Well, the foundation, of course, what we teach, uh, at ICM, we– the foundation is Christ. But your foundation is, is, is, it's, it's what– it's, it's your launching pad. Like for– this is a launching pad for your painting. We all have to have a launching pad. It's– sometimes it's our home. It's our marriage. It can be, be our church. Uh, it, it, it's, it's God. That's our foundation. And you set your, you set your roots. You set your foundation. And from there you flourish. It's like um, uh, your foundation might be the roots, the, the roots of the plant. And the plant bears fruit. But the thing I want to say too is when you're in– doing your purpose, you're in your wheelhouse; it feels natural. It feels like this is you. It makes you feel alive. It makes you feel fulfilled. And what the enemy does, what Satan does, unfortunately, is he tries to derail you. He will put schemes against your life to try to keep you away from your purpose. 

 

Jay: And would you say that some of these schemes would be him telling people to say to you, "It isn't good. You shouldn't do it.”?

 

Dr. Ray: Absolutely. 

 

Jay: That happens all the time. And that's why I say make yourselves happy. Your God-given gift.

Dr. Ray: Yeah. Absolutely. And it does. And it, and it, and your gifting makes you feel fulfilled and alive. You know, my story was, you know, I'm called to be a minister. I'm called to be a writer. I'm called to be a minister. And I spent 45 years of my life in the wrong field. I was in business, but I wasn't called to business. And I never found peace. I never found happiness. I never found fulfillment. So when I got into what God called me to do, I started to find my fulfillment and my peace. Jay is very interesting because he has so many gifts and so many talents, and it fulfills him. But I don't think he understands as well as how many people he blesses. Uh, he's touched my heart so many times, I can't even, can't even tell you.

 

Jay: Well, I did not know that. Well, thank you for saying that. That's very nice.

 

Dr. Ray: I'll just tell you a story. Um, I was just– some years ago I was on the golf driving range, uh, in my little town here of Winter Park, 

 

Jay: And I told him, "Quit while it's still up to you," but he didn't listen to me. [laughter] 

 

Dr. Ray: I mean, so, uh, I had learned through the grapevine who he was. There's this PGA professional that kind of hangs out there at this, at this golf course. And he's just walking behind me, and all of a sudden, he just starts giving me golf tips and helping me with my golf swing. I mean, I didn't ask him for it. Um, but he just started helping me and, and I watch him, and he goes around; he just helps people, and of course, it kind of made me nervous, like, wow, there's a, there's a kind of a well-known PGA professional watching me play golf.

 

Jay: Ha ha ha.

 

Dr. Ray:  You know, what do I now, now? I can't. Can’t, can't hit the ball. I mean, I started shanking, doing all kinds of stuff. 

 

Jay: Ha Ha.

 

Dr. Ray: But I'll never forget, here's this guy who's, who's literally famous, takes time out of his day just to stop and help me. And it, it, it touched me. I said, "hm, this guy's a little interesting." I mean, who would do that?

 

Jay: I did not know that. 

 

Dr. Ray: So, it [laughter] was, it was good.

 

Jay: I did not know that. But just in general, uh, it, it's like you help people to find their purpose, to enjoy their lives, to be more loving, to, to let God into your life and Jesus. And, and if you do, you will have a more fulfilled, you will have a better life. And, and that's what you do. And in my…small way, I would say compared to what you do, but I do try to help people and, and I've dedicated myself to a lot of things in relation to golf and one of them certainly is teaching and uh, and I enjoy– it comes naturally to me and, and, and just like when you see someone who's… who you could help, you would almost feel bad not helping. 

 

Dr. Ray: That's true. That's true.

 

Jay: In fact, just recently, Dr. Ray, uh, my wife was, uh, she's a kindergarten teacher for 30 years, loves kids. Every kid, every level, helping, helping, helping. And one of the girls on the playground, one of the… was uh, playing with some boys. They had a scarf, and they put it around her neck, and she got a mark around her neck. Girl goes home. Mother said, "Where'd you get that mark?" And the, the girl said, "My teacher did it to me." Oh, boy. So now there has to be an investigation with the city, the state, the schools. And it broke my wife's heart that someone would even think it or say it. And Dr. Ray spoke to her on the phone and made him feel so– made her feel so much better, saying what happened to him once and then said other beautiful words. So we– you'd feel bad if you didn't do that.

 

Dr. Ray: [laughs] 

 

Jay: That's true, right? 

 

Dr. Ray: It's just– it's just it's about people. It's just about people. You're– and you know, I explained to her that no weapon formed against her will prosper. We have a promise. I tell my students a lot: if you haven't been falsely accused, you're probably not a Christian. It's kind of part of the job. Uh, Satan's job– The Bible says that Satan is the accuser of the brethren. That's what he does. He falsely accuses. But these weapons do not prosper. God ends up getting the glory in the end. But the, the point is, when you're in your purpose, other people benefit from it. Yeah, it feels good to you. It feels, it makes you feel alive. It makes you feel happy. It is wonderful. But other people around you benefit. That's why it's so critical. That's why God wants you in your purpose, in your promised land, not for you to feel good, which is fine. I mean, He enjoys you feeling good, but the benefit to other people.

 

Jay: In what way is it a benefit to other people?

 

Dr. Ray: Because, when– God is unselfish. In other words, He loves you, and He wants you in your purpose, but because He's a loving father, He wants you to be not just self-centered, but other people-centered. Okay? A matter of fact, in Galatians, it says, "Consider others greater than yourself." So, God is always interested in the community, not just you. So I've always said this, "Your purpose will fulfill you, but your purpose will always bless other people." Not just God's love, it just is God's love. And Jay, with all his talents and gifts and the comed– comedy and the painting, you're getting ready to be blessed by this painting, by the way,

 

Jay: Ha ha.

 

Dr. Ray: …and the golf. He doesn't realize, but he is touching lives, and he's making other people feel better about themselves, and he's making other– he's bringing joy to me.

 

Jay: You know how I'm bringing joy? Because you're seeing me doing this, saying, “I could do better than that.” [laughter] 

 

Dr. Ray: That's, that's right. That's right. That's true. That's true. That's true. And so, um, the other day, we– he invited me to play a few holes of golf with him. And, you know, honestly, it's nerve-wracking. I mean, if playing golf–

 

Jay: For me, it's nerve-wracking.

 

Dr. Ray: No. Well, he's afraid I was going to hit him. [laughter] And then when I threw my club, he had to duck. But– yeah, right. But playing golf with a PGA professional, you know, a little, you feel a little pressure there. Oh my gosh, this guy's a professional. He used to coach Arnold Palmer, and he– I got to hit the ball with this guy. But it's, it's an amazing gift. And what I, I love is uh, his humility. You know, he doesn't, he doesn't ask for anything. He doesn't brag. He just, he just does his thing and people– he's happy, and he makes people happy.

 

Jay: I, I hope so. And, and, and thank you for saying this because I would never think of the things that you're saying. You know, these nice things he's saying about me. I don't even notice it. I don't know about it. And uh, I'm not even sure I believe you. [laughter] To be honest.

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah, it's true. It's, it's all… 

 

Jay: So if I could just describe this for one minute here,

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. 

 

Jay: ..and, and that is uh, see, this is the uh, amen corner, 12th hole at Augusta and this is one of the most difficult par 3s, and the here's the bridge that you go across to get to the other side and it's and it's called the Hogan Bridge and of course uh, Ray’s Creek and this hole has, even though it's only 135 or 140 yards, they have people that gotten hole in ones, twos, threes, and twelves in the Masters. You hit one in the water, it hits the edge of the bank, it comes back. So, this is one of the most difficult holes. This is going to be the putting green on this side here. And then I'm going to put, and I put a sunset. And then I'm going to put some azaleas, paint on top of paint. I know what a lot of you are thinking. What a waste of paint. But so far, I actually like this, to be honest. Uh, there's something about this that I like. It's going to be the green and hitting across the water, and someday, you said you'd like to play there someday. Is that right?

 

Dr. Ray: Oh man. If for, for the non-golfers watching this and listening to this podcast, the 12th hole at Augusta National Golf Course…

 

Jay: Where they have the Masters every year. 

 

Dr. Ray: Where, where they play the Masters, which is the most prestigious golf tournament in the world, I don't think that would be an argument. This 12th hole is iconic. It is beautiful. It is famous. As a matter of fact, you can Google 12th hole at Augusta… 

 

Jay: But not now. 

 

Dr. Ray: Not now. Not, not right now. But when we're done, when we're done. And it's just, it's just a famous uh, landscape. It's a, it's a famous uh, scene, uh, and, and, very historic. Uh, not…just, I mean, even if you're not a golfer, it's, it– look it up, the 12th hole. And this is an impressionistic, uh, Van Gogh view.

 

Jay: Vincent Van Gogh. 

 

Dr. Ray: Vincent Van Gogh.

 

Jay: You see, Van Gogh would say it's not what it looks like, it's what it feels like. And I've heard people talk about this whole…professionals. And, when you see a, a realistic painting of it, it's serene, it's calm, everything looks beautiful. But when you're standing on the tee, “Uh oh, where am I going to hit it? I hope I don't hit it in the water.” This is more of what it feels like. And that's what Van Gogh said. I don't paint what it looks like. I paint what it feels like. And here are the Azaleas and a sunset sky, and…and I'm enjoying doing it. I like–

 

Dr. Ray: It's a very interesting statement. It– you're painting the emotion.  

 

Jay: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: You're painting the feeling. 

 

Jay: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: Of the hole. So, there's a– in a way there is a feeling and a, and a message in your painting.

 

Jay: It's not what it looks like. It, it's what it feels like. That's what Van Gogh said. That's what a lot of impressionists said. Although some people call my art depressionism. But I don't listen because I– as long as I like it and maybe someone out there likes it, and uh…See, here's the Azaleas. And… 

 

Dr. Ray: And your artwork is on display in galleries, is it not?

 

Jay: It has been in galleries, but it's mostly on display. Hundreds of my paintings. In my garage. [laughter]

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. You're, you're being very humble, but your your paintings are are actually famous and well known and have been displayed in some prominent galleries, you know, in, in, in America. What you're seeing here, folks, is uh, history being made. 

 

Jay: Yes. This, that– 

 

Dr. Ray: A, a, a painting in my office. 

 

Jay: That's one way to do it.

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. [laughter] 

 

Jay: And of course, Dr. Ray also paints. You know, three bathrooms, $85. He'll paint for you. Absolutely. Absolutely. 

 

Dr. Ray: But you know what he's demonstrating here, and the reason for this is, he's demonstrating purpose. He's demonstrating a God-given gift. I want you to get this. You're witnessing a God-given gift uh, in action during this podcast. And I think that's, that's critical for all of us. He's laughing, joy– he's smiling doing this. He feels good doing this. This is a gift he wanted to do for the show today. And it, it's– part of, it's part of his purpose. And guys, you have giftings. You have talents. You have purpose.

 

Jay: So many. So many. You have so many gifts. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. So many. And, and, and get in them. Do them. 

 

Jay: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: God created you to do this. 

 

Jay: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: And when you're doing what God created you to do, you feel alive. You feel peace. You feel fulfillment. It feels good. And it's God's will for you. It's God's created will for you. And don't let anybody take it away from you. 

 

Jay: Right. 

 

Dr. Ray: Don't get distracted. Don't get tempted. Get into it. This is the reason you were born. And and matter of fact, Jay's doing his purpose, but I'm being blessed, and I hope that you're being blessed by this. And that's, that's the point of it. Okay?

 

Jay: And, just for example, with, with artwork. You could do something that looks perfectly realistic, and someone will say, "My camera does a better job than that." But someone else will say, "That's the greatest thing I've ever seen." Then someone else will put a dot with a circle and one line there, and someone will say, "It looks like a two-year-old drew that," and someone else will say, "That's the purpose of life. I love that painting." You'll always get yeses and nos. But if, if you like it, you really get to your core. Whether you're writing a song or baking a cake or doing something with law or anything, if you love it, you are fulfilling your purpose and your God-given gift. Is that right?

 

Dr. Ray: That's perfectly right. That's absolutely right. You'll love your gift. You'll– it's you. It, it's you. It's, it's naturally you. I know when I’m doing the things that, that I'm created to do, for me, I feel alive. I –this is Ray. This is, this is Ray. And for me, it uh, it's, it's, sometimes it's preaching on Sunday morning at a church. Um, uh, uh, developing courses, teaching, developing courses that just makes me feel alive, and hopefully it benefits other people.

 

Jay: I'm sure it does. 

 

Dr. Ray: Now, know this too, on, on a serious note. Um, the Apostle Paul wrote, we should not be ignorant of Satan's schemes. The primary scheme against your life is to stop you from doing your purpose. And he uses weapons like, um, fear, uh, anxiety, uh, temptations, um, uh, rejection, abandonment. Um, the big one, actually the biggest scheme that people face is illegitimacy. Illegitimacy. Am I really worthy? Am I really good enough? Am I really called? Am I really– It's called a question mark. Am I really legitimate? Am I legitimate? Am I important? Do I value…Do I have value? Do I matter? It's called the spirit of illegitimacy. But all these are schemes to stop you from fulfilling your purpose. See, Satan doesn't care about you, but he does care about your purpose. He's concerned about your purpose because your purpose benefits other people and also benefits God. So, don't let him stop you. Be aware of the scheme and know it's a scheme, and you can overcome this. Absolutely, you can overcome this. 

 

Jay: A good point and great point, the main point. If you love doing what you're doing and you like it, that's your gift. That's what God wants you to do. And part of it, how many times when you do something will people say, "That's not good. That song doesn't sound good. This isn–” don't even ask. Don't you do it. If you love it and it feels good to you, that was the purpose to do it.

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah, it does. And not everybody is going to be in agreement with you. Not everybody is going to like what you do. But you know what? It's you...And it will be people. Now, some people are going to say, "Ah, that painting just looks like a, I don't know, mishmash of stuff here." But me, I love impressionistic painting. This bless– I mean, blesses my heart. My mother had impressionistic paintings in our house growing up. And she taught me about impressionism. Of course, she was big on Monae. Um…

 

Jay: Jay Monet.

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. And so, ha ha, I, I love this. I, I love impressionistic painting. And so just to have Jay in my office here making this painting is, is incredible. And a lot of people love it. Some people go, "No, this is not for me." But that's not going to stop him. 

 

Jay: No…And, to me, it's, it's starting to take form. The tee, when you hit, is back here, you know, way back, and then, you hit to the green, you walk over the bridge, but Augusta National, uh, it's in the spring with the Azaleas. I put in a sunset. Uh, here's the green. I, it's, I'll, I'll put in a, a flag. I don't know if I can…we'll work on that a little. But uh, this is, and then the next tee, this is the 12th hole. Then the 13th hole, the tee is back here, and then they walk this way to the 13th hole, which is also a very famous hole. Amen, Amen Corner is 11, 12, and 13. That's Amen Corner. And I'm not sure why they call it that, but that's especially why I wanted to do this painting with Dr. Self and Amen…Amen Corner. And I wanted to just give an example of, of something that I like. I like putting it on loose. I like it. It's what it feels like; it's, it's not what it looks like. Van Gogh. Van Gogh, who did a thousand paintings and only sold one in his lifetime. 

 

Dr. Ray: Wow.

 

Jay: Do you think people told him that they didn't like his paintings? Oh, uh, definitely. But did that stop him? No. And it turned out that he was right big time and they were wrong.

 

Dr. Ray: Good point.

 

Jay: So… 

 

Dr. Ray: And you still have both your ears. I'm really proud of that. 

 

Jay: I am. I mean, I, well, that's good.

 

Dr. Ray: That's a whole nother story. Look it up, guys. Okay. [laughter].

 

Jay: But, and that's why a lot of my paintings I will call Vincent Van Golf and.

 

Dr. Ray: Wow, I love it.

 

Jay: …here, over– look, the action, that this is what– when you play this hole, which Dr. Ray hopefully one day will be playing this hole. But when you play this hole and stand on that tee, see what happens a lot of times is that, see, this is really downhill here. See, this is the way the grass grows here. Down. There's a– like that. So if the flag is here and you're a little short, the ball trickles, trickle, trickle, trickle back into Ray’s, Ray’s [with emphasis] Creek. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. Absolutely. That's speed. Remember Jordan Spith blew it, the hole. 

 

Jay: And, and then you have to hit from here. So there've been very high numbers on the hole. And that's why I was, I was fortunate enough to be around Gary Player one time, one of the greatest players in the history of golf, Gary Player. And I asked him, oh, and he was saying that when he played this hole, that's another thing. Because of these trees, the wind swirls. See, in general, when the wind is going in one direction, if it's straight behind you, you use a little, a club that hits a little shorter. If it's straight into you, a club that hits a little longer. If it's left to right or right to left, you take it into consideration. But these trees make the wind spin around. So I said to Gary Player, I said, "So when you're on, when you're on that tee, what do you do?" I promise, this is what he did. I said, "Gary, when you're on that tee, what do you do?" He said this: [mimes praying]. He prays. 

 

Dr. Ray: And the wind swirling makes it very, very, very difficult. 

 

Jay: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: The wind also can be uh, representative of the Holy Spirit. So it's a whole nother, whole nother, whole nother topic for that. So I have in my office, Jay Golden, actually creating one of his famous works of art for you on Self Talk. Isn't, isn't this amazing? Absolutely amazing.

 

Jay: And maybe uh, if it's possible, Dr. Ray, that you could uh, put this- I don't know if you're able to put it on your uh, your website or some way post it somewhere and if someone likes this they could…download it on their computer, print it, and you could have a copy of this as well. 

 

Dr. Ray: All right, we'll see if we can make that happen.

 

Jay: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: Make that happen.

 

Jay: And that's it. The 12th hole. But the 12th hole at Augusta, and uh,, but the main thing for today and you've, your words were so beautiful, and that is everybody has their God-given gifts, and don't let, don't let things get in the way. Love them. Use them. And what I did to get my name more recognized, like he was saying, Golf's True Renaissance Man. If you look up Golf Renaissance Man, you could read some of the other things that I do: golf movie scripts and poems and, but the main thing that I've done, I took one thing, golf, and I combined my interests, hobbies, and skills with golf to get more enjoyment and maybe make a little bit of a name for myself. People in my family, it brought them more happiness in a lot of ways. And I don't know if we could do a little close-up on this. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. Yeah. Let's look at that. There we go.

 

Jay: How do we do this? 

 

Dr. Ray: Toward me a little bit. There you go.

 

Jay: I want– It's hard. [laughter]. 

 

Dr. Ray: There we go.

 

Jay: But, 12th Hold at Augusta, Vincent Van Golf. But as Dr. Ray said many times, follow your loves, your interests, hobbies, and skills to get more fulfillment from golf– and from life and to sh– to inspire others. 

 

Dr. Ray: And I, I want to say this,, and that's, that's so true. I know that sometimes we get pressured into people pleasing and doing what we think will make other people happy and trying to please people. But the main thing is you want to please God. And when you're doing your purpose, and you're fulfilling your created call, not only does it make you happy, it benefits other people, but also makes God happy. And so, um, find it. And sometimes, I know with me, other people had to help me find my purpose. I was out of my purpose for so long, like 45 years of my life, I was out of my purpose. I was in business. I wasn't called to be a businessman, but I was stuck in business because I wanted the money and blah, blah, blah. And people helped me; my friends and family helped me find my purpose. There's always somebody there who can see it in you if you don't see it in yourself. 

 

Jay: Yes. Beautiful.

 

Dr. Ray: Amen. Amen. Well, thank you. 

 

Jay: Thank you. 

 

Dr. Ray: Jay Golden, Golf's Renaissance Man. Look him up. Google Jay Golden, Golf's Renaissance Man. Read about him. There's a lot on the internet about you. Most of it, eh, pretty good. No, it's, it's, f– it's fantastic. It's very, very interesting. Matter of fact, I've always said that you're one of the most interesting guys I've ever met in my life. 

 

Jay: Wow.

 

Dr. Ray: So, thank you for being part of, of Self Talk today, with Dr. Ray Self. Hey, don't forget to share the show, download it, subscribe, go to the website for the show, um, icmcollege.org/selftalk. If you'd like to donate, that'd be fantastic.

 

Jay: Million dollars. All the money goes to the college and the purpose.

 

Dr. Ray: Well, thank you. That'd be good. Million bucks would be good. ICM College–

 

Jay: And you'll get this one [points to painting]. 

 

Dr. Ray: Okay, we'll give you that. Okay. Amen. Amen. Thanks for being a part of the show. I, I appreciate– again, my guest, Jay Golden. And God bless you, Jay. Thanks for taking time out. 

 

Jay: God bless you. Thank you very much.

 

Dr. Ray: Okay. God bless you all. Bye-bye.