29 - Interview with Mo Shalash of The Brew Crew in NY

Gjergj Dollani: Alright, welcome to a very unique episode of Ristrato Time Starting and Running Your Own Coffee Shop. Now, if you've been following this podcast for a while, I think the last time I recorded was maybe a couple of years ago. but I I kept going back to it to as part obviously as as part of of the book grounds, and and I wanted to make sure that That I was able to provide people with a lot of the questions and answers that they had. So so I figured, you know, it's it's time to actually bring on someone as well on the podcast who has had a similar experience to mine. So I'd like to introduce the guest for this episode. His name is Mo Shalash. He is the founder of Brew Crew in New York, New Jersey. and one of the things that struck me about Mo is that we have a very, very similar background and

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: we took the same kind of dive and I figured and a and again, you know, it was it was a discussion that Mo had reached out to as well, where we figured, you know, it'd be really fun to just have a conversation about sharing stories about how we started, what other things we messed up on. So, I'm opening the floor to you, Mo. Welcome.

Mo Shalash: thank you thank you Jeff. I mean I'm I'm very I'm very happy being part of this show and thank you for the introduction. And as I when I saw you first time on LinkedIn and then I started like scrolling in your profile I said we have really a lot in common so it would be great that we have a chat and see now here we're talking about our experience. So I'm very happy to be part of this podcast and that's my first podcast ever. So thank you for inviting me.

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be a good Yeah,

Mo Shalash: Yeah. Yeah, so

Gjergj Dollani: it's gonna be a good discussion. you know, ultimately, I think one of the things that drew me to this specific recording is your history of how you decided that you wanted to start your own coffee shop. so do you wanna walk us through that journey a little bit?

Mo Shalash: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean so I mean I've been I've been an employee all my life, right? So I worked I worked for a a very big company, consumer goods company, and I worked for almost fifteen years in a lot of locations. And I was always fascinated by coffee shops, right? I always used to visit coffee shops everywhere. I used to travel, right? And try their coffees, try their pastry, try their bakery. my wife is a great cook too, so you know, you reach that point in your career where you say, Okay, I wanna do something different, I wanna try and in my last year in my corporate career, I mean I was really thinking about like my corporate leap and what should I do. and then I started like thinking about having coffee shop, right? And and the journey is finding what to do is totally different th was totally different than the journey starting the coffee shop and and I've learned a ton right so what really drove me to do the to do to have a coffee shop was was my passion for like visiting coffee shops and then as well like my like my wife's passion for shit I think Yeah, let me

Gjergj Dollani: Okay. Yeah, that's that's fine. I so yeah, no no worries. Basically the thing is, you know, just kind of when when you're responding,

Mo Shalash: Hmm.

Gjergj Dollani: just kind of think in mind yeah, just think in mind short, right? Like the people that are listening,

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: their attention span is like five seconds. You know, so if you don't have the hook in five seconds, so basically like just out dive into you you're making the right points, right? Like coffee shop, I loved coffee shop, my wife loved cooking, you know, and I wanted to make a change in my career, which is basically everybody's story, right? And and that's where people will connect with it. So just let's let's just start

Mo Shalash: Yeah, simple.

Gjergj Dollani: that question again. Yeah, go ahead. So what the question was what drove you to make the lead

Mo Shalash: Yeah. I mean I yeah, so so I've been an employee in all most of my life. worked for a big consumer goods company and I've traveled a lot of places in the world. I had my wife with me. We used to visit coffee shops, get fascinated by the offering and always dreamed to have one. And and simply when we d I decided to leap, my career we decided that together we opened the coffee shop that we had in New York. Whatever I learned before that journey and whatever I learned after I did it was totally different, right? So so yeah I mean that's it yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: That's that's that's a great segue to the next question, right? Because for all of us when we're starting this and especially if we haven't been in the industry, we don't really know what it is to be behind the bar, we kind of have a vision of what we would look like behind the bar.

Mo Shalash: Ha ha.

Gjergj Dollani: Right, what we would be doing, right? And how perfect our situation would be from whatever we're looking at across the you know, across our table or across the chair. So tell tell me a little bit about your vision. What you think you were going to

Mo Shalash: Okay.

Gjergj Dollani: see there?

Mo Shalash: I mean I'm a very simple guy. I managed huge teams, big businesses, complex operation. So I was visualizing that the coffee shop is gonna how many people I'm gonna manage? Like maybe ten. How many customers are there? Maybe two hundred. I mean how hard it's gonna be, right?

Gjergj Dollani: Right. Right.

Mo Shalash: how big is the budget? I mean I manage budgets that are way bigger than this, like hundreds of millions. So so I was actually looking

Gjergj Dollani: Right.

Mo Shalash: looking at it from a lens of like I had a ton of experience. in my career and I have done it in different places so how hard it's gonna be like opening a coffee shop and starting one from scratch I completely like knew nothing about how hard it is right so so I approached this as a as I was just sharing with you like I mean I was full of ego of my knowledge full of full of like I know how I will know how to do it just give me a couple of months and and It turned out to be a total different experience. I learned a ton and way more than what I have learned in my career.

Gjergj Dollani: And what do you think was the biggest lesson there?

Mo Shalash: yeah I I think the I think the biggest lesson I have learned is is how you how you really st start understanding that the more simple, humble, basic you become as a person operating your business is what really drives the discipline, the focus, the commitment to keep going every day and survive, how hard it is to start. Right. So I I think my biggest learning in this year is you know when you have when you go into this business into this business like the retail business, you don't shut down, right? You d y that is you work every day, seven days a week. I I mean my first year I closed three days Christmas, New Year, and Thanksgiving. That's it. So so the consistency ripped out all the ego I had and made me like

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah.

Mo Shalash: get grounded, right, to

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah.

Mo Shalash: to how can you really run a business, right? With that mindset. So changed my mindset I believe.

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah. I I think that's the that's the problem a lot of people have and they they all think they're kind of gonna go in, they've managed complex situations and they think, Okay, well,

Mo Shalash: Ha ha.

Gjergj Dollani: you know, three eighteen year olds, seventeen year olds, you know, clean here, do that there, you know, brew a coffee here, change the filter over there, like how hard can it be? But I don't think people realize That the stakes have changed, and I think that's the biggest difference. And I I want to hear that from you as well. That the stakes have changed, right? Like when you're in a corporate setting, there's structure, right? Like there's there's

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: things you can do, things you cannot do. You have somebody who can you can pass on your stress to whether it's somebody below you or somebody above you, and you can be like, Listen, hey, this is a difficult situation. I'm not sure how to hold it, how to take care of this. You know, can you come and help me with this? Right, and it's their responsibility to help you with that. That here, you got nobody, you're it. Yeah, you know, you're

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: kind of you know standing in the bathroom in front of the window on the sink, kind of going, What did I get myself into? And then you know, am I my god, you know, am I gonna make rent? Am I you know lawsuits, things? It's just I I think that's the that's the thing that people don't understand, and I think that's the part that. I've always if somebody comes and asks me and says, Hey Jerry, you I'm I'd love to open a coffee shop. Even if they have the money, like I'll try to talk them out of it. Not not because I don't want anybody to own

Mo Shalash: Ha ha.

Gjergj Dollani: a coffee shop, but because I yeah, you know, I feel like it's my s it's I'm not I would be doing them a disservice if I told them, Yeah man, go for it. You know, you can do it, right? Do you feel that way?

Mo Shalash: Yeah, I mean I have a question for you. Would you do it again?

Gjergj Dollani: Absolutely. Like

Mo Shalash: Ha!

Gjergj Dollani: so you know, but but here here's

Mo Shalash: Huh.

Gjergj Dollani: the thing, right? So I would do it again. I would do it again. I would do it again, but I would do it differently. And I and I talk about this a lot. I would do it differently because I wouldn't take the leap like you did and I did. Right, with kind of like this this total ego driven, I've done better

Mo Shalash: Yeah, exactly.

Gjergj Dollani: things, who cares, you know, how hard can this be? Right? And then you kinda realize, shit, this is actually pretty hard. You know?

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: and I would do it differently. What I would do, Mo, is I would go in as a partner, so not specifically kind of owning it myself or running it myself. Again, you know, if if I if money was no issue and somebody said, you know, here's a million dollars, who cares? Right? Like I would absolutely go run it myself and and hire a manager. I guess that's the the the difference, right? I'd hire a manager, I'd hire somebody who was actual responsible for the 24 seven of the operation. I can go in and like a specialist, because now you've become the specialist. You can diagnose problems You know exactly what's coming down the bike, you know what the inventory should look like. If not, you know what happens with employees. So I would do that. I would go in as as as the knowledge person and as the last line of defense. But I would not I would not go in, you know, open the doors at five in the morning and then clean up, take

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: the trash out, you know, and and And then have to go in on on the weekends at restaurant depot to buy milk and you know like you know boxes of that

Mo Shalash: On the weekends, on the weekdays. Anytime. Anytime. Yeah, I mean I keep thinking about that question by the way.

Gjergj Dollani: What'd you do again?

Mo Shalash: I I think I think I would do exactly what you're saying. which is to partner to invest. I think the good thing that happened is I knew the weeds of the industry and if you really wish to go into hospitality, I think You need to do it yourself for some time in order to know the how to how to make it, right? So you get your money up on when the transaction is swiped, right? But it's a slim margin. It takes time to recover your capital, but then you get guaranteed returns. And I would definitely do it as a partner investor, as a strategic consultant, but I would never open the doors at five AM again. Right.

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah. question because it you know you're you're

Mo Shalash: Yeah, but

Gjergj Dollani: you're talking and some of the things that you're saying kind of made me think about my experience. there's one thing that you said that this is a cash business right that that

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: it that the margins are really thin and I don't think people understand how thin the margins are. Do you want to talk a little bit more about that?

Mo Shalash: They don't. yeah, so so that's one of the things that I I mean so that shows whatever you study and then whenever you start something it's totally different, right? So you go put an investment, s name it, whatever, quarter million, half a million, and then you think you're gonna break even in eighteen months and then And then after I mean during up to break-even you're gonna make you're gonna you're gonna be able to after the break-even you're gonna be able to recover your pay money and so on. and I th I guess people look at it as simply a bank account you put your money, hold your money and then it pays you back. Which is

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah.

Mo Shalash: total totally different than reality, right? So what happens in these type of businesses is why people like retail in my opinion, because the transaction or the money comes in upon transaction. It's not like distribution, it's not like the any other kind of businesses where the money comes whenever the customer has money to pay. Alright. so so but the thing is when you start, let's say you have a wonderful start, okay, which everyone wishes for. You find that you are chasing your tail because, yes, maybe your income is increasing or your revenue is growing, but your cost is growing too. And

Gjergj Dollani: Mm.

Mo Shalash: because it is a slim margin, you find the game is very hard to manage. You still need to spend it way ahead of recovering whatever you're spending. And that's why why people why these businesses fail in the first couple of years, because they don't estimate well in order to grow to the that revenue how much money they should have had in their pocket in the first place. And I

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, yeah.

Mo Shalash: and then and then people get like sh driven into these businesses because they are like nice and fun. And cash, as I was saying, but then figure out that in order to survive for 18 months, you might need 18 months of expenses. then it turns around. Yeah, I mean it depends on how fast you grow. If you can grow, if you can grow as fast very fast, you might need even more money earlier. And it's it's like an engine, yeah. You need to increase revenue, so you need to put in money, you need labor, you need product, you need marketing. So imagine

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah. Yeah.

Mo Shalash: that. you go from one month to the second month's like double revenue you think you made it right but the fact is on a thin margin business your expenses has doubled and most probably you don't have any margin to collect. Right? So so and it becomes like a cycle.

Gjergj Dollani: So let's let's dive in a couple of numbers, right? W when you say thin

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: margins, give me a ballpark percentage wise. So what's what's thin? Yeah, what's what's thin? When they you know, so people understand, right?

Mo Shalash: So so whatever I knew before the b yeah yeah Yeah so so when I whatever I read about before going into the business was always saying fifteen to twenty percent which is completely not thin actually this is great. What is thin is I I I think in the first three years if you reach a double digit you have made it.

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you.

Mo Shalash: Alright. so I think extremely thin is seven and eight percent. and I I now s up to now I didn't reach a double digit margin, right? So

Gjergj Dollani: What's what's your what's your biggest cost center? Like what's your biggest, you know, cost bucket, if you will? Mm? Labor. Labor. And

Mo Shalash: labor. Labour. Labour, of course. Yeah, labor. in a coffee shop it should be labor. And between me and you what can get me

Gjergj Dollani: W wh

Mo Shalash: you go ahead.

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, no, I was just gonna ask. Sorry, 'cause I'm you you're talking and and you know, my A D D kick kicked in and I'm thinking something else, you know.

Mo Shalash: Yeah. That's right. You're thinking. Yeah. Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: What's what's now the the the minimum wage in in New York and Jersey? Or both, I guess.

Mo Shalash: Yeah, it's it's yeah, it's sixteen and half.

Gjergj Dollani: Sixteen and a half. Okay. And and has it been growing up like progressively over the past five years? Like a a dollar a year or something like that?

Mo Shalash: grows up i i i it grows up ever a dollar or yeah, I believe it's a dollar a year. and and they have the plan laid

Gjergj Dollani: Does this use the same one?

Mo Shalash: out. Yeah, and they have the pl they have the plan out I believe till twenty thirty, so it's gonna keep crawling. And

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah. And and what do you think? 'Cause I don't want to get into like the the politics of of of wage, you know, specifically

Mo Shalash: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: for these types of businesses with like three percent profit margin if if that, right? Like you know.

Mo Shalash: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: do you how often do you think on average the increase your pr I mean that's a tough question. I'm probably gonna take this out. But You know what, let's let's skip this 'cause I I was I was going to say, you know, like Yeah, I was

Mo Shalash: Yeah, no worries. It's it's yeah, it's cutting out too.

Gjergj Dollani: I was gonna say obviously at the end of the day you're still passing the cost to the consumer, you know, by increasing the prices and and and it's like it's a it's a it's a really

Mo Shalash: Yeah. I I honestly

Gjergj Dollani: weird, you know kind of a situation because you want people to make a lot

Mo Shalash: Yeah, but you you

Gjergj Dollani: of money, but at the same time I had that issue

Mo Shalash: Tosh.

Gjergj Dollani: too. I again where this is off the record, but I had that issue too where

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: it's like, you know, okay, you're asking me to pay something Yeah, you know, it's like you're asking me to pay 'cause

Mo Shalash: I give them a raise once per year. I give them a raise once per year.

Gjergj Dollani: the the the problem is not the minimum minimum wage. The problem is that in order to get somebody who's good, you're gonna have to pay them seventeen, eighteen, nineteen dollars. Yeah.

Mo Shalash: You will never play me. You'll never play minimum. I ha I have people that takes twenty one, twenty-two. And I have one guy that comes on one comes on yeah, twenty-four, yeah. yeah. I mean I

Gjergj Dollani: yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I was some people were making more money than I was. Yeah. Yeah.

Mo Shalash: mean you need you need you because you know what I've learned and I don't know if you wanna pi I I think people is the most thing important thing in this business. Not your offering, not your location and so on. It's who you hire, how you hire it and how yeah. Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. So let's let's let's go back. Let's go back. Okay, the the question is the the question is going to be so again, we we were talking about minimum wage and and the reason why I asked is because obviously like you said labor is is the biggest expense. But tell me

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: what's your what's your thought, your philosophy on labor? 'Cause I when we were talking a little bit earlier, you mentioned something really nice.

Mo Shalash: Yeah, I mean I I mean I personally believe the one thing that was going to get me out of business was not merged. It was labor. So yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah. But but also that 'cause you said it better, that people are said it again, like what's gonna make or

Mo Shalash: So

Gjergj Dollani: break your business?

Mo Shalash: So in my opinion, what I have learned in the those two years that the thing that's gonna make or or break your business is the people you hire and how how you hire them, right? And

Gjergj Dollani: Mm.

Mo Shalash: and who you choose. And I think

Gjergj Dollani: Mm.

Mo Shalash: this business, the coffee business, is not based on offering, on aesthetics, on I think this can help you to get what we they call in marketing the attention, but it will not get the retention.

Gjergj Dollani: Hmm.

Mo Shalash: And you need the retention for this business. I I I

Gjergj Dollani: Hmm. Hmm.

Mo Shalash: mean if one customer comes one day and and pays a hundred dollars and never see them back, and it means nothing. Right? But if the customer shows up every day asking for one of my baristas, ordering the same order, and then praising the barista in front of me, I know

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah. Yeah.

Mo Shalash: I made the retention, I know I made money. And it's interesting.

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah.

Mo Shalash: I mean, yeah, I mean what you learn in initially when I started, I didn't want to pay a lot of like high wages so I hired like junior staff and that was going to get me out of business because yeah

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, I agree with you. I had the similar situation. Yeah.

Mo Shalash: yeah I mean they don't show up and that's one of the issues I had I mean You need employees in this business, people that like the business, like the type of work that they are doing. They are very nice in like to treat customers and and they won't I mean so you pay, I mean we talked minimum wage, I don't care about minimum wage. My minimum the minimum wage is my point of entry. I would hire someone if I see that they have the skills that I need in my crew. That's why I call it the brew crew, right? But I'm sure I'm sure I mean my experience with labor was intensive so in the first six months that's another fun story. I mean I I worked in several regions before opening coffee shops. Several regions, right? and I mean I did interviews like hundreds of interviews in every region when I was an employee. When I started to hire for my business, it was a total different animal. I had in order to be able to I mean I I'll tell you the statistics I had like in the first six months I had hundred and twenty interviews. I offered yeah

Gjergj Dollani: Th this is for the shop.

Mo Shalash: for the shop, yeah. 120

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, I I believe it. Yeah.

Mo Shalash: Yeah. And I I offered 40 and the forty worked last two of them worked more than two months. The thirty-eight remaining either they completely vanished along the way or they I had to release them or they didn't even show up the first day at work. So so even w I mean the funny part is I thought I can do it, I can hire people from my shop, but I completely struggled the first six months. Then I figured out how to do it and that's that's another ego point that has been released.

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, yeah. And and Yeah, s say save save that point 'cause that question is coming, but

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: that's that's definitely one thing that when you asked me would I do this again, that's actually one of the biggest consideration sets for me. Like I do not want to deal with just the the the the HR part of of the business. Right? Like I I don't want to be hiring anybody. I don't want to be firing anybody. And then you have to do a lot of that, and it's so draining because there are people that you

Mo Shalash: Wells.

Gjergj Dollani: fire because they deserve to be fired. There there's most of them fire themselves, like they just don't show up, right? Like, you

Mo Shalash: yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: know, that's the easy part. But then there are some that really want to be there, and you're like, if if my margins were better, I would keep you here because you're an asset. But You can't really make good coffee. And I love your your attitude. I love how you clean. I love how you stalk. I love how you do everything else. But if you can't actually just brew the coffee and do a good job at it, I'm sorry I just don't have the money to keep you here. And I've had to do that to a couple of people that in in other situations

Mo Shalash: S cutting out.

Gjergj Dollani: I would have just kind of closed one eye. Yeah. Sorry?

Mo Shalash: It's Curry now. I don't know

Gjergj Dollani: Can you hear me?

Mo Shalash: I don't hear you well. I don't know if it if you it was recording. Now I hear ya, yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: Are you 'cause

Mo Shalash: Now I hear you. You hear me now?

Gjergj Dollani: I yeah, I'm looking at my stats here and it just it looks like you know, my internet is on well, the

Mo Shalash: It was recording fine.

Gjergj Dollani: upstream now is at ninety nine percent, so

Mo Shalash: Yeah. I mean it's showing seventy seven.

Gjergj Dollani: Okay.

Mo Shalash: Have mine.

Gjergj Dollani: On your side? Do you have like a

Mo Shalash: Yeah, so maybe the problem is on our side? Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, 'cause I've I'm looking at the upload speed here, it's ninety nine percent. That's fine. I'll I'll

Mo Shalash: Sorry to cut you out, but yeah, go ahead.

Gjergj Dollani: I'll yeah, it's it's good now. Like I see it very well now. No, what I what I was gonna what I was saying was you know, I'll I'll just go back and say w when you

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: asked me would I do this again, I would, but the only reason why I would not want to jump in Probably one the main reasons is I don't want to do the HR part of of the job. And

Mo Shalash: No.

Gjergj Dollani: I don't think people understand this very well. You can take all those books. There's the idiot's guide, there's the two guys guide of the shop, whatever.

Mo Shalash: No one talks about that. No one.

Gjergj Dollani: Everybody talks, yeah, everybody talks about the you know, what to buy, how this, that, the space, who to talk to. But

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: but the fact that you're actually And and yours was it sounds to me like you went through a more stricter process of hiring people. I I didn't, I thought I did, but now I'm I'm I'm listening to your experience and I'm like, I guess I didn't do enough. because I did interview a lot of people, but I can tell you, over the first year, I when I did the tax returns, I had 40 people on my

Mo Shalash: yeah. Me too.

Gjergj Dollani: on my thing, you know, and and this shop at

Mo Shalash: Yeah, me too.

Gjergj Dollani: its peak has never had more than seven or eight people on

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: on the payroll, right? But then you look at the end at the end of the year and it's forty

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: people and you're going like, Wow. How? What happened? Yeah.

Mo Shalash: I I had forty envelopes. Actually I had forty-five envelopes for tax return. Yeah, no one and and the interesting part, no

Gjergj Dollani: Isn't that But it's it sucks, right?

Mo Shalash: I I think I think when I tried to prep to this journey, I had a I mean I I mean I have had been able to read a lot of content and watch a lot of read a lot of books and watch a lot of content about how to prep yourself for that lake going into retail, going into a coffee shop and so on, and no one really mentions that. And

Gjergj Dollani: Mm.

Mo Shalash: and if and I mean this is I think was one of the biggest challenge I had. Now my retention is very

Gjergj Dollani: Wha why do you think that is?

Mo Shalash: high.

Gjergj Dollani: Why do you think that why do you think people leave that part up when when they're trying to guide you through a coffee shop?

Mo Shalash: I I I think because that's the real deal.

Gjergj Dollani: yeah, I agree with you.

Mo Shalash: But because I think that's the real deal. People wants to forget about when they go out of the business they want to forget about it and they just don't mention how hard it is to Yeah, I I I and I believe now that the only reason I'm still in business because there is I have four people their retention is more than one year and a half. And and if you look at my attrition is way lower. and now I have

Gjergj Dollani: Mm.

Mo Shalash: summer and winter employees so so like holidays that they come in and show up and so on. So yeah I mean it's people and by the way I mean if you j we just talk in labor, let's talk about customer. So no no one really talks and on all these books that perhaps you're going into retail never talks about the customer right and how hard it is to manage the customer, especially for someone who never did that before. I

Gjergj Dollani: So tell tell me more about it. Yeah, tell tell me more about it. What's your what what kind of what angle or what's your experience?

Mo Shalash: I I think my experience in in this was I think this one I I think I learned a lot about serving people from the coffee shop. And what does serving people really mean? I did a lot of mistakes so I don't know where to start. But but but we had a challenge like in the first few months we had a challenge to really understand What the customer wants. Either from offering, from pricing, from packaging. from people working and so on. So and and and you know the the biggest reward you have in in your store is a Google review for example. Or someone put

Gjergj Dollani: Mm.

Mo Shalash: a post that is good about your place. And my biggest

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah.

Mo Shalash: worry was always to see a bad post, right? And that used to happen often, right? So the amount of customers

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah.

Mo Shalash: that that that we couldn't serve in the way because we were still building our operation, our I mean yeah we we make great coffee but can we make 100 great coffees in a single hour? I think this is the real test of your business, your people, your equipment, and no one really tells you anything about that, and that comes with time. Time and finding the right people. Yeah, good.

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah. But that I think I I mean again, you know, that's that's the definition of service, right? The definition

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: of service is that you're not going to get the same thing every time. Right? For everyone, even for you, going back you can go back to the same coffee shop every time it's never going to be exactly the same, right? Like your your coffee will look different. Whoever is making the coffee, some will do better lata art, some will not at all. Some will froth it too much, some will make it too cold, too hot. You know, it's it's it's never been like it will no never be perfect. But I I agree with you and actually that's what I want to ask. It's I actually want to find out what you think about Yelp. Or or any of these

Mo Shalash: Yep.

Gjergj Dollani: services that that rank you or rate you.

Mo Shalash: yeah, I mean yeah, I mean. no. Yelp I had a I mean I have a very bad history with Yelp. So so yeah, I mean I don't I I mean I I put

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, you know, I go back to I

Mo Shalash: yeah, yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: No, I was just gonna say I I go back to Anthony Bourdain's response to to Yelpers, you know, where he is like his his response, the short response was F you know, like in in those kinds of words. And and

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: and and and the longer part of that, so like he starts with, you know, F And then the longer part of that

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: is the longer part of that is I've taken years of my life to perfect my craft and everybody that works with me works in the most extreme conditions to ensure that what we put out is the best thing we can put out, right? And then you show up with absolutely zero effort, zero experience, zero thought, take a bite, and then just go out there and say, I hate this or this place sucks right it's like like

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: right like it the the just that the scales are so uneven where you can just with one sitting in your I don't know basement and just kind of go this was the worst coffee I ever had in my life and it just undoes Hundreds of hours of sweat, blood and tears, money, life dedicated to a craft, for just some random dude to say, It's not good, you know?

Mo Shalash: Yeah, I mean I mean I I honestly I mean I think I think you're being nice. Because when they mention only the craft, that would be great. I've been mentioned by name sometimes. So so so

Gjergj Dollani: yeah, but

Mo Shalash: yeah. But and and I personally think that these platforms has two use right one one use is the announced use and there is another use where people just use them sometimes even to like get a coupon get a voucher get a some some some some attention right and

Gjergj Dollani: yeah, yeah.

Mo Shalash: and I I have personal experience with Yelp that I wouldn't that I wouldn't tell

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah.

Mo Shalash: but But but yeah I yeah go Yeah

Gjergj Dollani: We we had one guy. Yeah. Go ahead.

Mo Shalash: go ahead, go ahead. No you have the story. Yeah definitely the story goes first.

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, yeah, tell them the story.

Mo Shalash: No you have a story. You know yeah yeah yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: I thought okay. No, it's it's it's a very typical Yelp story. You know, it's it's nothing

Mo Shalash: Yeah yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: we had one guy, we had like a I think if you go through the thing, there's like one one star review, you know, if if that. and and that one star review was no, there's there's two. And I'll tell you the two. One of them was this place was the worst place. It was not advertised as blah blah blah. And you know, and the and the guy had posted pictures of it, okay? Of the of the place. I look at

Mo Shalash: yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: it and it's like it's like some place backyard in Colombia. You know what I mean? Like like

Mo Shalash: yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: Colombia, like not Colombia, Maryland, Colombia, Maryland, you know? And

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: I'm and I'm and I write to Yelp and I'm like, this is not. this this is not our location. It even the name is not the same, you know? Crickets. No response. That stayed there, right? The other one was, you know, and of course I would respond to every one of them, you know, kinda like, Hey, this is not our location. I'm not sure what this is. We're working with the updoor remove it even though they they never even bothered, right? But the next one, which really I took to heart and and I wrote or res a Long response to was somebody had come in at like let's say 2 p.m. or something, and his re his his comment was I walked a half mile to come to this place because I was so excited to try the blah blah blah and it's closed. What respectable shop closes at 2 or 2:30 p.m. on a Wednesday or something like that? Right now. I'd put a note at the door. Of course it was like I'd taken a sheet out of somewhere with like sorry no power or something like that, right? And and and I was like I wrote to the guy and I was like hey i understand you're upset and I understand that I've that you were really excited and you walked very far to come here and and we would have loved to have served you, you know, the the thing that you love. But the problem is that we can't operate without electricity. Like if if even the bathroom is broken, that means I have to close the shop because I can't work with a bro broken bathroom because I it's I violate DC regulations or something

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: like that, right? So I said, and you know, I would love for you, you can come back, we'll give you whatever, blah blah blah at a certain time. I would love for you to remove this one star because it only took you 10 minutes. To sit down, upset, and and basically shit on this place. But for all of us that work here, this changes how many people walk into the shop, how people see this shop, this one star, because people are not gonna go in and read the reviews. If you go from 4.8 to a 4.2, you know you're gonna lose like one out of every 20 people that will see the review, right? Like, this is a 4.2. I don't go there, I only go to 4.5 and up, right?

Mo Shalash: Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, it's impacts imp yeah, it impacts

Gjergj Dollani: And and I don't think people realize

Mo Shalash: your visibility on the platform.

Gjergj Dollani: So so to me, either you just don't care and you know, that's that's that's what it is. It just kind of shows your character, or you just don't know, you know, what kind of an impact your cause you'll write that, you're upset, and then you'll walk and you'll forget about all this ever happened.

Mo Shalash: Yeah, walk away.

Gjergj Dollani: The rest of us have to deal with your consequences for as long as we're open, you know? so that's to me

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: to me is the biggest problem and Obviously, you know.

Mo Shalash: I think I took it so in my first year I took every single review very seriously. either internally or replying to customers, right? If we had an opportunity because I mean any if every opposition had an opportunity. If someone had a fair feedback I would definitely take it. Right packaging issue, something that came missing something and so on. So we r we really and we acted upon that. We used to do retrain the people, do pictures, post the pictures

Gjergj Dollani: Mm-hmm.

Mo Shalash: in front of the stations and so on. So we really took it that and so and then the the ones that I couldn't do anything and try to manage the customers 90% out of ten it was a wasted effort right and and

Gjergj Dollani: Mm.

Mo Shalash: I think I think my skin grew thick right so on top of that and I think

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah.

Mo Shalash: what you should do is to hear every feedback take the take the constructive one and work on it definitely the one that is not constructed Bombasa manage the customers all the same so always give them always reply, always give them an input and so on, but have zero expectations at least. And I'm gonna tell you, it's for a new business that is starting, it definitely a one star is hurts a lot, right? And some people it's very hard for them t

Gjergj Dollani: it's terrible. Yeah, yeah.

Mo Shalash: to to get that. But but yeah I mean I I have lived with customers right so I know them by name. I I mean I have a lot of fun stories. I have lot of learnings. but the when it comes

Gjergj Dollani: What's your biggest learning?

Mo Shalash: to the review. I think my biggest learning is I think

Gjergj Dollani: What's what's your biggest learning on the review?

Mo Shalash: my biggest on the review piece I mean I shared it but I think my biggest learning about

Gjergj Dollani: No, just your biggest learning with your customers.

Mo Shalash: I th I I think customers the most important thing you need to do is to be able to serve them what they want. Not what you think they need. And sometimes just a good good behavior, good attitude if best attitude can walk you out of the biggest problems. And I personally didn't imagine that in the beginning, right? I'm a I mean corporate guy. So every problem has a solution. We need to find the easiest, safest, simplest

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mo Shalash: solution. But I I but I what I've learned being behind the counter and dealing with customers, sometimes a smile and being genuine can talk you out of a big problem. Right? Even if someone spilled the coffee on themselves and they could go report report that to and make a big fuss about it right so so so it it is named hospitality for a reason because you need to be somehow a hospital for customs alright so yeah

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, yeah. You hit on a on an interesting point. you hit on the on the on the point of legality, and I think that's also another thing that people don't really talk about. I think we

Mo Shalash: yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, we we we hear it as a joke, like as an anecdote, like hey move that move that hole hose from from from the floor 'cause like somebody will trip and will sue us, you know what I mean? It just it like people say it as a joke. but

Mo Shalash: yeah. Yeah, that's not a joke, no.

Gjergj Dollani: but there's Yeah, there's there's absolute truth to that joke. You know, it's it's so funny. I'll t I'll tell you a funny story. I'll tell you a

Mo Shalash: That's not a joke now. 100%, 100%. Someone slip in your store. yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

Gjergj Dollani: funny story. Yeah, I'll tell you a funny story because it it really kind of caught me by surprise and I just c I Again, you don't know what you don't know, right? Like you you you know,

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: you you you open and you really kind of are this like child, right? Like this happy child with with your favorite toy and you can't wait to like go out in the hallway and share it with your friends, right? Like to show everybody, look at what I got, right? Like what I look what I put together,

Mo Shalash: Yeah. Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: right? And I don't know if I ever shared this story, but you know, So the the the coffee shop was in a classic old DC building that was built in the 1910s or 11s, right? It's beautiful art deco, it's it's just a beautiful building, you know, about a block from the White House. and I opened the shop, maybe I'd been open for about a month. And then this woman walks in. It wasn't busy. It was maybe like three people in there total or something like that. And she walks in and just kind of goes from one side all the way to the other side. And you know you're kind of sitting behind the counter and you just kind of you you know somebody's on a mission, right? Like their and their mission is not necessarily to get coffee because they're not stopping at the counter. They're just going from front to back. No,

Mo Shalash: They're going they're going to the bathroom. Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: no, no. It just literally front to back open, just

Mo Shalash: okay. Okay.

Gjergj Dollani: went to the bathroom records. That was the only door that was on the other side and she's like what's in here and I was like the bathroom she's like okay and then walked around you know a little bit and then came to to my to to the counter and she said you know your building your your your your coffee shop doesn't have handicapped access and there's a room full of of accessibility lawyers right across the street. We're keeping an eye on your place. You know? And I'm like I'm sitting there

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: kinda going like like 'cause it's it's so it you're you're so torn, right? Like, of course you want to be welcoming to everybody and especially somebody who needs accessibility,

Mo Shalash: No.

Gjergj Dollani: right? Like I did not build this building. I did not open it without permits. there's a and I I saw I I looked at her, I said, Well, you know, the side door has you can just roll in from the side door. She's like, There's a half an inch lip on that one. They're not gonna be able to get in there. Now I I mean I apologize. I I'm not you know like again, i it's it's hard for me to kind of put myself in that position, right? Like to be like, this is you know but I was like, you know, I said I have all of the licenses you know, from the city, from the y you know, from the county,

Mo Shalash: To open the cops.

Gjergj Dollani: from you know from the district and even, you know, like I don't know if this is something you want to take up with the city or with with the landlord, but like I'm not sure what what we're arguing about, you know? And she's like, Well, we're keeping an eye on you and then she walks out, right? And I'm kinda sitting there and I was like

Mo Shalash: Wow.

Gjergj Dollani: Damn. You know, it's Here I here you are, you know, you have this passion, you wanna do this thing, right? And then and everybody's coming out from the woodwork w with maybe the best of intentions, but they're coming after you for like things that you just kind of like you n you know, like and the one thing that I thought of is like, do I have the right insurances? Do I do I need to

Mo Shalash: Yeah yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: look her up? Do I need to like, you know, I went to the landlord, I was like, yeah, I was I went to the landlord,

Mo Shalash: Talk a lawyer. Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: I was like, this is what happened. Like you know what I I never thought I'd be exposed to something like this, you know, because I I mean everything is by the law. And so you have that, you have

Mo Shalash: Yeah, that's a huge thing people don't talk about too. Like you you feed people, right? So and you have a place that is in the street where people can walk in front of it, walk into it and so on. So that means and you you're actually dealing with people most precious habits, which is drinking or eating, right? So so there

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah.

Mo Shalash: is a huge liability that as well when you go into this business people really don't talk about. And and you explore right away. I mean I have too many examples like I had in the first first six months. that that are similar to that. and if I when I remember now when you're saying and when I remember what I feel now, I believe like yeah, you grow over these stuff and these challenges could have taken a lot of effort, time and even money from you in the f when you do when you do start a coffee shop, right? And and no one really told me about that, right? So I had to figure it out myself. I I I mean it just takes one customer that calls that calls in and say, Okay, I don't feel well after whatever I eat at your place. That you start feeling like okay, now I'm liable

Gjergj Dollani: How do you

Mo Shalash: for all that. And and and that happened to me.

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, and how do you how do you prove, right? Like how do you how do you kinda

Mo Shalash: yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: go, Yeah, but w you know, where else did you eat today? Or like what'd you eat today? Or you know, what's your you can't you can't go into those kinds of situations. what do you do you plan on expanding? What's your what's your goal with your shop?

Mo Shalash: So so it's very interesting. So I mean I I opened the first shop, my only plan was either scaling or exit. Or scale then exit. Right? So that

Gjergj Dollani: Mm.

Mo Shalash: that was my vision. Now I I mean I'm in a total different position, right? Now operation is stable. We still have our issues. But operation is stable.

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah.

Mo Shalash: I can see the margin growing. but I mean still I mean I I mean I started breaking even but I'm still my payback is not gonna be less before before then three to five years. So my biggest my biggest focus now is to help other coffee shop owners. And and it's very interesting. So I'll tell you a funny story, okay? So we do the coffee, the iced coffees in cans if you have seen them before. Right.

Gjergj Dollani: Yep, yep, yep.

Mo Shalash: and I mean I thought I'm gonna do this idea. Aesthetically it's beautiful. We're gonna go viral from day one and then we're gonna make it. Which was not the case. However before we start w before

Gjergj Dollani: Yep. Right.

Mo Shalash: we started there was a there was another location that opened that did the same it is like almost ten miles away and it did the same concept concept like putting the ice coffees in cans and so on and this place went viral like with queues and so on and then i I mean for somehow I th I thought that these are like my virtual competitors so I always used to try to see what they are doing new what kind of drinks they have even when someone comes for an interview as a barista and she just tell me like she used to work over there I would hire her right away just to know what they do right and

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Mo Shalash: and honestly they had a massive start and a massive expense In two years they had four locations and they were growing like no tomorrow. And then

Gjergj Dollani: What what do you what do you think it was?

Mo Shalash: I think I I I think they got lucky with I think they did invest very well in the marketing and they got lucky and they started spending money here and there opening this other locations and then f one day in the summer I was with my wife actually back in Egypt and by the beach and she was like swiping on Instagram and she saw an ad of them selling the franchise. Or not the French are selling the four places. And I was like, what they're selling? What happened? I wanna know. And then I had I mean I went to them and I had a huge discussion and we built a relationship and I'm helping them out now. So what happened with them was They grew very fast, they didn't know how to operate it, they left it to managers, they didn't run it, lack of management, a lot of bills went unpaid, they nearly was going out of business officially without punch putting money money in. And somehow they really didn't put time as owners not to run it but even to do like minimum management requirements when you own a place like this. So without going into a lot of details but like rent was not being paid for like 12 month for one of the locations so so and you know this is a

Gjergj Dollani: That's that's where the market of money came from.

Mo Shalash: most probably this is how they fuel the other places. But you know, I mean if you don't pay rent for for in a coffee shop for twelve months, you have no way out. Right. You will not be able to pay ever again. Yeah. Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: man. That's hey, that's that's a that's a good sixty thousand dollars to use on growing, you know?

Mo Shalash: And and and then I mean I I'm gonna be transparent. So I offered them to buy. I don't have the money just to be clear, but I offered them to buy. And then I offered them to partner and then what ended up is I'm helping them out. And in this journey I've learned a lot. Right? I've learned a lot

Gjergj Dollani: Mm.

Mo Shalash: about how people really go into this business and how different owners Yeah. Yeah, sure.

Gjergj Dollani: Let me let me ask you a quick question. So so 'cause I'm sure there's a there's listeners who are in that sim situation, right? Like they're they're they're they're seeing their customers kind of, you know, even if they're growing, they're seeing their numbers declining, right? Sometimes you can have a lot more customers

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: and you can have a you know, your expenses

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: are growing too and that your income is is whatever. But

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: what do you think would be your two biggest levers of change for this chain to make them stable and then profitable.

Mo Shalash: What I told them first is people. I would fire half of the people you have and go find different people, train them,

Gjergj Dollani: Mm.

Mo Shalash: and be with them. And I to I not showed them why, right? And I I mean you you cannot imagine, right? If you run it if you run a place, it's not about just making coffee. I mean I went in as a customer, regular customer, I ordered coffee, she didn't smile in my face, she didn't look me in the eye. She made good coffee. I'm fine. Overall I didn't want to tip her. And then I mean she didn't build any discussion. And I'm I was just a reg like showing up as a regular customer. So I I told them, I this is the hospitality business. If you cannot take care of your customers, I you you should not take north. Should be nice. greeting and so on. So so people will build your business. So first thing I told them is focus on the on their people. I mean and and management here plays a big role in training and hiring, right? They don't need if you're trained and hire the right people, they don't need to be supervision supervised all the shift. They will need support some time of their shift, but they don't need the twenty-four hours supervision. And then the second thing is you know there is a tendency when you don't make when you want to make more money in this business is you know wanna make more money, let's add products.

Gjergj Dollani: Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mo Shalash: Let let's make a new offering. Let's make a new type of latte. Let's make it I mean it's huge. business owners in this realm think that the way to generate money is to compete with themselves. That's my opinion. Right? Because when you go go ahead, I mean at the end the traffic is the traffic, right? if you wanna make another offering to make your traffic stop taking what they have and take another offering, that's your choice. I would rather for on reducing my offering, cutting my costs, increasing my margin in the fast way. So that's the two things I would do. And this is what I told them. So they kept coming in with me, we will put gelato, we will do this, we will start cooking, we will do that. I told them, I mean no no no I told them you know what you should do is cut your menu. Train your people,

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah.

Mo Shalash: make them perfect. I mean I I I always think about that like the Apple concept. Like the difference between Apple and Samsung. Apple has four phones. Samsung ha Samsung has Samsung has like what? How many? Hundred? I mean you I so if when you are definitely in trouble on margins the right way in my opinion is cut your menu. I personally did the assessment for my store and I told them I will do it okay but I will take time. I mean I have 80% of my revenue comes from 40 items out of 110. Right so so why am I keeping the remain

Gjergj Dollani: You have a hundred and ten items.

Mo Shalash: yeah and this is counting everything. Yeah, I do have a big menu full of coffee shop, that's true. And that's co yeah, that's counting like I I do count like caramel macchiato

Gjergj Dollani: Hmm. Cos you you also have

Mo Shalash: food.

Gjergj Dollani: I mean you you also have food, right? Like so there's all food options.

Mo Shalash: Yeah, I have food, yeah. I I have like I have around around like twenty sandwiches and plates. And then I have and then I do

Gjergj Dollani: Okay.

Mo Shalash: I do record like each drink as a single item, right? Like caramel macchiato is a drink, right? pumpkin spice. So that's why the count is

Gjergj Dollani: Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah.

Mo Shalash: big. but I th again forty forty out of a hundred and ten makes eighty percent of my revenue. Right. And I I think yeah go. Yeah, so that

Gjergj Dollani: No, go ahead, yeah, I think yeah.

Mo Shalash: Those are the two things that I'll definitely focus on. The labour and then should

Gjergj Dollani: Are you familiar with pop-up label?

Mo Shalash: Pop up label.

Gjergj Dollani: Are you familiar with Pop-up Bagel? Pop up bagels. Pop-up bagels? Okay. So like

Mo Shalash: yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm I am familiar, yeah, I'm familiar with yeah, yeah, I'm familiar with them, yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: their their menu is like. Their bagel menu is like five bagels. You know? You can only have like or four choices, that's it. You know? And and I think maybe like

Mo Shalash: That's it. Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: three or four drinks. Like I think their total menu is like ten items in total. You know? And They just opened one here in y you know, not too far from where I live. I wasn't familiar with them at all. My wife is like, my god, you know, Popa Bagels is here, you just I I'm gonna go stay in line and there's a line literally wrapped around the the the the street

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: to go there. And I'm thinking like, Okay, well I mean, like Jesus Christ, like Like what could possibly be in these bagels that will make me stay in line for two hours to try their I

Mo Shalash: Get it bigger.

Gjergj Dollani: don't know chive bagel or whatever. You know what I mean? Like when there's so many

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: different options around and and basically I heard a podcast where they had the CEO of of of this chain because apparently it's growing very, very fast. And basically,

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: she's like, the key to our success is simplicity, which is what you're talking about. Two, we're impossible to miss. Like we're in your face anywhere you get to see us. So, which basically tells me they have

Mo Shalash: okay.

Gjergj Dollani: an insane marketing budget and they don't like they'll just like build awareness,

Mo Shalash: Poor eight.

Gjergj Dollani: build awareness, build awareness, right?

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: and and then And then and then the other thing that they do is they launch each product as a drop. Right? So instead of just kinda like which is what I would do, you know, I I I I try to do mini drops, but I didn't have the the bandwidth, I didn't have the you know, to do it, where you basically like you Build it up for the for for three months. It's coming, it's coming. my god, it's gonna be like this and it's you know and then

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: you know, it's three days. The first to be in line is going to get, you know, a golden goose and whatever, and then all of a sudden there's a line around the building because you just launched a new bagel with like salmon spread or something like that, you know, which is what everybody has.

Mo Shalash: That's it.

Gjergj Dollani: But there's but there's there's a a lesson there that and and that's I feel like that's what you're alluding to that less is more right that that more is less in terms of money or revenue and less is actually more because you concentrate

Mo Shalash: Yeah the a hundred percent.

Gjergj Dollani: you concentrate your forces yeah man this listen this this has been good I have one last

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: question as we're kind of wrapping this up What do you feel how do you feel about the ratio between you know drink products and food products at a in a shop? Like

Mo Shalash: It's cutting out again now, I can't hear you.

Gjergj Dollani: what should they you know from a menu perspective, right?

Mo Shalash: Sucks. It sucks. Anybody? I I can't hear you,

Gjergj Dollani: What happened? you're frozen.

Mo Shalash: just a second. it's cutting out again. I don't know. Now it's back.

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, was my question was, you know, obviously you have a a food menu, you have your coffee menu. What do you think is the right

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: mix of percentage mix of food versus beverages, you know, to maximize your bottom line?

Mo Shalash: I think seventy thirty. Seventy thirty that would be great.

Gjergj Dollani: Seventy one and thirty one.

Mo Shalash: sa s seventy drinks, thirty food. again

Gjergj Dollani: Okay.

Mo Shalash: It in a coffee shop you need to make a certain number of shots every day or you're not doesn't you're you're not a coffee shop, right? So so

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah.

Mo Shalash: what you focus on is what what you call a ticket price, right? Like it's like each

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah.

Mo Shalash: customer coming in how much they're paying, right? Are they buying for themselves and the people at home, people at work, which is great, or are they buying for themselves drink and sandwich for lunch and so on so so so yeah I would say 70 30 that's the ultimate I don't I'm not there yet but but yeah I'm still building it I think yeah that's that would be the what I would look for with my experience in the food business it it's very good to mix it with coffee because what happens is I have days where coffee demand is low and food goes up. Which is somehow it plays together as a hedge effect. Right? And you know everyone

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, yeah.

Mo Shalash: in this business I mean loves winter because winter is less business. So they try to as much as can as they can like put all their vacations put ev all their downtime in winter, right? however I I my my second winter I I did perform better not because of coffee. I think I performed better because of food. My food mix was higher

Gjergj Dollani: Mm.

Mo Shalash: and it improved my ticket price. So I had less customers but my ticket price was higher. Right? Versus like June for example which is I had way more customers but my ticket price was low. So

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, I No, I there's a it's a really interesting observation 'cause you said winter

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: is where where your your sales decline, whereas

Mo Shalash: Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: for us here at DC generally is the opposite. summer is

Mo Shalash: yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: where summer is the worst and actually DC in general has the worst summers for for the food business. Like in general, food you know, these types of businesses they decline about, you know, fifteen to twenty percent depending on where you're located, right? But DC it could go it could go down as much as fifty percent because

Mo Shalash: Wow.

Gjergj Dollani: we're also we're we're also built around the US politics and like Congress is not in session in August. Yeah, so they leave all

Mo Shalash: Everyone goes everyone go goes off.

Gjergj Dollani: of the support services leaves,

Mo Shalash: Ha ha

Gjergj Dollani: you know, the consultants and everybody and it's this city, if you are a restaurant in D C you are struggling in the summer. Big time.

Mo Shalash: I got I'm yeah and and and that's that's another thing about like when you start a coffee shop you ch pick the location you need to be ready in terms

Gjergj Dollani: Location

Mo Shalash: of money. Yeah, you need to be ready terms of money to cover those first two summers at least. right? Or you put your margin aside

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah, yeah.

Mo Shalash: to cover it, I mean or or you're gonna as we used to scall, you're gonna burn your furniture. You're gonna lose your people, not pay them,

Gjergj Dollani: Yeah.

Mo Shalash: and then and and that's it. So we start from scratch.

Gjergj Dollani: Awesome. Well, Mo, it was awesome to have you here. we should do this again. and

Mo Shalash: Mm me too, Nato. Yeah.

Gjergj Dollani: it's it's been it's been it's been great, it's been fun. I think a lot of people will will find this interesting and and where can people find you?

Mo Shalash: I mean you can find me, I mean I'm very active on LinkedIn. So you can Google me like or you can search me on G LinkedIn as Mohab Shalash O H A B Shallash is S H A L A S H so and Jerj I personally very thankful for this opportunity. I when I saw your again I'm mentioning this again, but when I saw your account I was like wow some I mean maybe people are like could be have different backgrounds be in different places but they share a similar path similar journey and and I mean I know we can talk for hours and definitely we will and I know I will learn from you even more in

Gjergj Dollani: Awesome.

Mo Shalash: our discussion so thank you very much for your time I appreciate it

Gjergj Dollani: I I I think I think I have a lot to learn from you. you know, 'cause because obviously I I think what what makes this interesting is, you know, I come from a marketing background, you come from a supply chain background, and I think it's kind of interesting how we view our businesses. You know, I was more interested in in product, price and promotion. And I'm sure, you know, you you looked at input output you know you know.

Mo Shalash: Yeah. Process structure tools systems.

Gjergj Dollani: That's right. That's right. Mine is like my process was who can make this better? You do it. All right. Cool. All right. Thanks, Mo. Have a good one.

Mo Shalash: Thank you. You too.