Walmart Stores Of The Future, Morrisons Robots & Why Saks Just Set Omnichannel Back

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It's May 7, 2025.

I'm one of your hosts, Ann Mazinga.

And I'm Chris Walton.

May already wow.

May.

It's gonna be May.

Chris.

It's gonna be May.

And we are here Once again to discuss all the top headlines from the past week, making waves in the world of omnichannel retailing.

And, Chris, we couldn't start May without a very special guest joining us today.

We have none other than the VP of content for Shop talking grocery shop, the one, the only, Mr.

Ben Miller.

Let's get a round of applause.

Mr.

Ben Miller, welcome.

Welcome to Omni Talk.

Hi, Anne.

Hi, Chris.

Great.

Thank you for having me back.

Really good to be here.

It's always great to see you, man.

The brother from another mother across the Atlantic.

I love it when you're on the show.

And he's kind of coming into European season as well.

You're coming to my side of the pond, which is great.

Looking forward to that.

Yeah, it is.

Yes.

We're heading out there next week and then we're going to be out there again for Shop Talk Europe, right at the beginning of June, right, Ben?

Yeah.

Second to the fourth of June in glorious Barcelona.

So it's coming around really soon.

It's going to be our third year in Barcelona now as biggest Shop Talk Europe yet.

So, yeah, looking forward to seeing you and lots and lots of our community then.

Yeah, I just heard this morning, 4,500 attendees planned.

Ben, what are you most excited about?

Yeah, the, the proposition of the show is very much unlimited possibilities and unlimited opportunities in European retail because we are, you know, unfailingly optimistic, which is always nice at the moment.

Turn the news off, come and get a bit of optimism for a few days.

But within that, we think we've got a role to be sort of your guide, your guide through this universe of, of opportunities.

So there'll be lots around retail media.

We've got a whole afternoon dedicated to retail media.

We've got lots about the physical store and unlocking physical stores.

We've got search and discovery and we've got fantastic meals, meetings, programs, parties.

So, yeah, it's going to be a really good few days.

You did a much better job explaining that, Ben, than I did saying center of the universe.

So thank you.

It will all become clear.

Although Barcelona feels like the center of the universe.

I was with my buddies at the Kentucky Derby this weekend.

They were asking me, they're like, what's your favorite conference venue?

And I, it was.

No doubt it was Barcelona.

I, I just love going to Barcelona for a conference, as I think everyone.

Everyone does, right, Ben?

Yeah, it's a beautiful place.

In early June is Barcelona at its best?

Although, you know, I'm sorry to all my Catalan friends, I think Today's a national day of Catalan morning after Barcelona knocked out of the the Men's Champions League last night.

But I did, I, I did, I did mess friends to say, don't worry, you're going to win the Women's Champions League.

You'll be asked in the final.

So there is, there's still solace, but I imagine it's quite quiet on the streets of a Suran blast this morning.

Thanks, Ben.

All our Spanish listeners literally just turned off this podcast like, I'm done.

I don't want the memory of, of the bad match yesterday.

Pour a little cava out for them.

That's fine, that's fine.

Well, let's get to today's show.

But before we get started, this is the first show of the month, which means it's time to give out this month's Omnistar for those new to the podcast.

Our Omnistar award is the award we give out each month in partnership with Corso to recognize the top omnichannel operators out there.

Not the pundits, not the so called experts, but the real life retail operators making a difference in their organizations.

Coro's AI co pilot coaches retail leaders to optimize store performance at every level, transform retail operations from data overload into data power.

This month's award goes to Ray Khalid, the store manager of the Mississauga Ontario Walmart Canada store of the future.

And I got to meet Ray on our travels to Canada just a few weeks ago and he and the Walmart team were so gracious in showing us around the store.

And Ray, particularly with my store management background, impressed me with his knowledge of his operation overall and the management of what honestly was a very, very large scale operation.

And I could not believe how many people were inside that store come 6pm at night.

It was insane.

An intense amount of traffic and Ray had it all dialed in.

Yeah, Ray, you are amazing.

You did such a good job not only with the operations part of the store, but you can just tell how well respected you are with your team.

I mean, everybody that we came across in that store and just in sitting down and really talking with him, he really is invested in not only making sure that the store is running correctly, but that each of the, the teammates in that store feel valued, feel that their role is important.

And he does everything he can to make sure that he is available and accessible to them with whatever they need.

When you have that much traffic going through the store, Chris, that's, that's got to be a welcomed relief for all those Teammates.

Yeah, and the dude's got a second job.

His second job is giving store tours to executives and, and, you know, geeks like us too.

And if you haven't seen our video yet, you should check it out.

I think it's got almost 50, 000 views on YouTube of the Canadian Walmart store the Future.

It's very worth checking out and it might come up in today's conversation as well, because in today's fast five, we've got news on Walmart US Store the Future in Texas.

See, I told you, folks.

A major UK supermarket market's introduction of robots into its operation Pinterest supposed emergence as a search engine.

Lowe's rolling out AI assistance for store associates and infios.

Omar Akilah, a good friend of ours, stops by for five insightful minutes on how AI will impact order management system design.

But we begin today with what was just.

I can't think of a better word to say than just wild news out of Amazon and Sachs.

And yes, Ben, Chris, headline number one.

Amazon and Saks Fifth Avenue have launched in a luxury e commerce storefront.

According to retail dive.

The new shopping section is called Luxury Stores at Amazon.

It features a selection of merchandise curated by Saks Fifth Avenue, including women's and men's ready to wear beauty, shoes, handbags and accessories.

Merchandise is available through Amazon's app and website.

The launch is accompanied by specially designed digital displays inspired by the windows of Saks Fifth Avenue's New York flagship ship.

And the online storefront is also being promoted via a window installation at the Saks Fifth Avenue New York flagship store.

Ben, we're going to go to you first.

Our guest today.

Did Saks just signal its ultimate demise with the new Amazon partnership, or do you think the partnership is the right move to make?

Thank you.

And I think there's two perspectives on this.

There is.

There's the Amazon perspective and the Sax perspective.

Yeah.

So let's do Amazon first.

Okay.

So who wouldn't want luxury consumers on the platform?

High spenders, high net value, high margin goods.

And it's something that Amazon has been trying to do for a while.

They've had these kind of luxury stores since about 2020 and there's been really limited traction to this.

And somebody said to me the other day, which really resonated.

They were talking about luxury retail and they said to me, luxury retail is the game of making people want things they really don't need.

Which I thought was great.

And that's absolutely not what Amazon is designed for.

That's the antithesis of Amazon.

So there's always been a mismatch.

So for Amazon, bringing the Saks brand onto the platform and crucially getting access to their supplier relations, that's a win.

And that win for them is probably what led them to invest in this new Sax Global formation last summer.

And ever since they did that, this move has felt pretty inevitable.

So, and that in that context is really important because Amazon, along with Salesforce and Authentic Brands Group helped finance Saks the acquisition of Neiman Marcus.

So they helped finance the creation of Saks Global.

And I think that's the rub.

Yeah, really, if you start going from the Saks perspective, there's been so much coverage about this acquisition we could, I'm sure we could do a podcast series in its own right.

But yeah, I think, I think everybody's aware it's not going very well.

It's got a huge amount of debt.

It's raised over 2 billion in junk bonds to finance the acquisition.

He's got a really large debt repayment coming up soon.

So you know, Cash Sachs has to find the cash flow to be able to make that payment.

And he's got to keep Amazon, one of his big investors on side.

And, and I think when you strip it all back, I think that's what's driving this activity above anything else.

Interesting.

So you, so you think there's no value?

If I'm reading between the lines, you don't think there's value from a consumer perspective.

You just think you, you think that it's, they're not going to be going to Amazon for luxury.

That's, that's just, this is a, this is a move to pacify investors, not so much or keep the peace, not so much for the consumer.

I think the rationale is really strong for why Amazon would want to try and make this happen.

I think it's really challenging to see why from a Sax perspective.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Chris, where do you land on this?

What are your thoughts?

Yeah, I mean a couple of thoughts.

On what, on what Ben's, what Ben said and then kind of add my own twist to it too.

I think, you know, for Amazon it's kind of a no brainer in a way, but I would caution the idea of Amazon being able to get all the brands under the Saks umbrella onto the platform because the brands still have to give permission to sell.

And I lived through that at Target when we, we acquired some high end cooking online websites with the idea or the premise that we would get access to their brands.

Which turned out not to be true.

We saw the same thing with Moosejaw and Walmart.

The kerfuffle that they had trying to do the same thing.

It just doesn't happen that way as much as people want to think that it does.

So but you know, for Amazon.

So like let's try it.

But the other point I would make on the sex side for on the investor side, this movie, I mean this thing is just silly.

I mean to me it's like signals the death knell of eventually sacks.

Because the most ridiculous part of the announcement to me is that someone at Sachs actually thinks it makes sense to use the windows along fifth Avenue to advertise this.

It's like don't come into our store.

Everyone walking by on the greatest shopping street in America.

You know, you could just go to get the goods on Amazon.

I mean that is just absolutely asinine when I say that out loud.

I mean you guys have to agree with that.

I think so.

I don't know.

It's driving awareness, right?

Like it's, it's awareness to consumers that you could that now they are available.

Awareness of the death of your business model.

Like if people start to do that, your stores are going to become obsoleted that quickly.

And so it just goes back to my point again of barring a few exceptions, department stores are the 21st century retail equivalent of the horse and buggy.

They're going away.

And this is just a further example of it.

And man, I think the proof's in the pudding.

I think that's a really interesting point around the department store model.

And I think the exception to that is the success that Nordstrom's having.

And right.

Not Nordstrom is having because it recognizes that at the moment to sell luxury you need experience, you need personal selling.

You know there is, Yeah, I think there's lots of stories about the number one personal seller in the Neiman Marcus estate having moved to Nordstrom and taken her account book with her and she's turning over the equivalent of a, of a department store on a.

On her own through personal selling.

So is this ultra high end market whereby a physical environment of departments of curated products really resonates now as the economies contract, is price and convenience going to become more compelling to consumers and more compelling for brands of route to get there?

Possibly.

Does luxury have a level of protection from that?

Possibly.

But I think there is still a role to play for that connection.

That experience.

You've just got to look at the buzz of the print store in New York, create Experience and you can sell luxury.

So I'm not, I'm not quite sure that the department store in luxury isn't the right thing to do.

I'm not sure that Saxon necessarily taking the right route to unlock it.

Yeah, right.

You have to position it that way.

That's why I said, barring few exceptions, for the most part, it's going away.

Just like there's still horse and buggies riding around Central park if you do it right.

Right.

You know, like you have to position the store experience in the right way.

And this particularly putting the devoting your windows to selling on Amazon is not that.

I don't know, guys.

I'm going to come in here with a different perspective.

I think that on one hand, I totally agree.

Like, the department store as we know needs to evolve or it's going to die.

And does this Amazon connection dilute the Sam's, the Saks brand a little bit?

Maybe.

But I do think that there's an important thing to call out here and that is that we've said that it's okay for Walmart.com to sell luxury, but now we're saying it's not okay for Amazon.com to sell luxury.

I think there's a major disconnect there because I think when you think about.

How people are selling, that's a different question.

But that's, that's from a different starting point and that's, that's Walmart selling luxury, having access to luxury.

That's different than.

Then that's to the point about Amazon.

Yeah, it makes sense for Amazon.

But you know, for the, for the point of Saks, that's Saks going on.

Amazon is different than the Walmart example.

There's still a point of Saks going on this to keep their business model alive.

The convenience stuff is, is number one here because if you still order something from Saks, from Nordstrom, from any of these retailers, the shipping, you know, for me to cover shipping, even when I'm spending a certain amount of money to get free shipping, it still takes, I'm still waiting a week for an order from Nordstrom, for example.

Now I can go on.

If I'm a luxury shopper, I've already been in the store, I know what handbag I want, if I want that delivered to me or that dress delivered to me for an event the next day.

And I already have all of my Amazon information there and I can get it in one day.

I think there's value to that.

And that's not something that with the current Sax model they're able to deliver on.

Second, I think when it does come to searching for something like yesterday, I'm looking for basic black T shirts, but I want a high quality black T shirt.

When you start to think about things like Rufus that Amazon's deployed where I can have an engaging conversation with somebody.

So the new version, the, the like now version of what that sales associate was able to help me with online in a store, when you think about how that's happening on Amazon and now I can be served up not just Amazon essentials T shirts, but I can also say, you know, Rufus, I want something that's a little bit more high quality and maybe I'm getting a James Purse T shirt that I would only be able to get if Saks is on the Amazon platform.

So I, I do think that there's value and this is Saks and Amazon kind of evolving together into the new definition of selling luxury.

Wow, we're starting off hot today.

So shots fired there.

But okay, I'm going to refute the point on two things.

The first part of that, just use by with Prime.

Then why do you have to do all this?

Like you could get all those shipping benefits just by linking up with Buy with Prime.

You could, but I think that assumes that people are going directly to Saks.com which we know they aren't going Saks.com as frequently and they're going to Amazon.

But that was the premise of what you said.

Like they can't, they're shopping there and they're not confident in the delivery and the experience.

So okay, then get confidence in the delivery experience by leaning on with Buy Prime.

But then the second point is you're thinking about this in isolation.

You have to remember too that Amazon already has items available from these brands on their website.

So this isn't changing the experience.

Not all of the brands.

Well, the, the brands.

Anyone that wants to put a brand on the website as a third party seller can do that and that's been a problem on Amazon for years.

So.

So the search experience is not really going to be augmented by this in any way, shape or form as well.

So.

All right, headline number two.

Walmart has debuted a new store of the future down in Texas.

According to Chainsaways, the new Supercenter is located in Cypress, Texas which is both its first ground up supercenter in four years and the first new construction of store of the of a store of the Future in the U.S.

walmart plans to build or convert more than 150 stores to this new superstore model over the next several years.

Highlights of the new store include a full service fuel station with eight pumps serving up to 16 vehicles.

A modern pharmacy with a health service room and drive thru a refreshed vision center offering expanded services elevated departments in fashion, baby, home and pets.

An ability for customers to use the Walmart app to engage with the store including scheduling, TV mounting, enhancing registries or booking tire installations.

Something I love to do.

Storewide digital shelf labels and updated Walmart branding and QR codes throughout the store to unlock digital tools, resources and instant access to an expanded assortment.

Ben, how much are you buying into Walmart's new store of the future moniker moniker for this new Texas installation?

Oh man, I wish that was open a month ago.

So I went after shop in spring I went down to Texas spent some time with retail partners.

We did we shot some videos for our kind of grocery shop, an inside grocery shop series that we doing so I'd have loved to have seen it in the flesh I guess.

What thoughts on this?

Number one, I'm amazed.

It's the first new ground up supercenter for four years that took me back but the recent remodel supercenters that I've been in are really good stores.

They're operationally, they're really well run, really consistent, strong operational standards.

What we're seeing is the increased connection of linking those digital journeys from in home to in store that SAMs are doing and they're probably a little bit further along the journey with what they've done in Grapevine.

So that's really strong QR codes to unlock expanded assortments, getting people to drive in the app.

So you've got more app usage and then you can drive media sales through the app, you can drive Walmart plus et cetera.

So all makes sense.

You've then got the efficiency bit.

It's one of our big things at the moment is driving efficiency and engagement and the connection between the two.

So again there's a lot here they're talking about about continued rollout of digital shelf edge labels that we talked about before.

So there's a lot that is positive.

I think.

I think probably the interesting thing is is this the store of the future concept?

I mean you guys run futurelabs, you're better at this than I am.

For me, no, this is a store of now.

So this is a really good execution of what retail looks like.

And I think the the watch out for me is if you've got if there's other retailers who are looking at this thinking that this is sort of the future, then they're behind this is store of now.

And there's other things going on elsewhere in the Walmart estate to show you what some of the things in the future might be.

I agree this is the problem with the term and I don't know if Walmart's using this term or if the media is using this term, which is why we do what we do, which is this, this is not a store of the future.

It's the pro.

It's essentially the prototype of the future.

Right, and that's what you're saying you're thinking too.

I can tell by the way you're nodding your head.

It's like, like, you know, it's not, it's not even that, that futuristic.

It's, you know, compared to what we saw in Canada, which was much more futuristic.

But even that is kind of a prototype of the future design.

It, it just seems like a pragmatic, you know, incremental evolution versus like a revolutionary store of the future idea.

At least that's my take.

And what do you think?

Do we, are we gonna agree on this one?

Are we gonna, yeah, no, I think.

Are we gonna start off salty?

I don't like that I get called salty for just disagreeing.

I said we are gonna start off salty.

I say you, I said we.

I, I think, I think you guys are right.

Just, it's just this is the new, new format stores for Walmart.

I, I think there's, especially at this Texas location, it sounds like they're just setting up a store that will better allow Walmart to compete and to position itself, especially in Texas with major competitors in the same demographic.

Like, like H E B.

I mean they're making their own tortillas in store.

They have a highly curated bakery.

Like maybe we'll see more grab and go food in this store that really allows Walmart to be in that same consideration set that you're getting from other major players in that Texas market.

And I think if this was a true store of the future in the sense that Chris, you and I learned when we were building Target, store of the future.

It's like there's got to be more that's in, in test mode than there is like live in the physical store.

This to me is that concept that is just, just new, you know, the new format for Walmart.

If it was a store of the future, I would expect to see a lot more test, like small scale tests going on than what we're seeing in the Store and more on the side of consumer facing technology, associate facing technology, supply chain technology than what we're hearing about specifically in this format.

Yeah, 100%.

100%.

There'd be more concept work in terms of different things that they're trying to see if they can change the operating dynamics of the business model itself to squeeze more, you know, profit and sales out of, out of the operation.

So yeah, 100.

And that's the other thing too.

I imagine they're doing all kinds of things with employee tools and technologies, you know.

Right.

But they're probably doing that across the chain already and they've probably talked about that a little bit, but I was surprised that that wasn't more pronounced in the announcement, so to speak.

Right, yeah, it's something that they talked about it Shop talk.

So Cedric Clark's interview, the EVP talked about the store app that they're using and how they're unlocking efficiencies.

So yeah, I think we know it's happening and I think, look, it's the supercenter format is such a solid format, you would not want to be competing against that store.

I think it's just not a futuristic concept bringing new things we haven't seen before.

Rather it's the latest iteration of lots of really good things that they're putting together into one space.

Yeah, it's a Walmart makeover.

I mean it really is.

That's what when you, when you look at it it's like, oh, Walmart's had this glow up and this is a new store.

We're gonna, we're attracting a new demographic.

We're gonna show them that experience when they step foot into the box versus just, you know, what their previous preconceived notions were of a Walmart store.

Yeah.

Meanwhile I walked into my local Target yesterday and, and like I've it, I've got pallets down every aisle and there's like floral, floral forests as I enter the store.

Like I'm like what the heck is going on here?

This looks really different.

But anyway.

All right, well let's move on to headline number three.

Ben, we're really going to need you for this one.

Because Morrison's becomes the first supermarket in the UK to introduce human sized aisle robots.

According to Metro Simbi's tally, robots can now be spotted in three Morrison stores, whether be Redcar and Stockton and will be primarily used to check stock.

Ben, this question goes to you.

Have you seen Morrison's new robots in action yet?

Number one and two, what's Your take on them.

So I have not seen them in Morrisons like you mentioned.

It's a three store trial and all the stores are up in the north of England.

So A which is a good distance from London where I'm based.

But I do know a man who has so shout out to my old team member Toby Pickard over I.G.D.

who met with Morrisons and the Simba team last week.

And so I spoke to him last night, he kindly gave me the lowdown and he'd been up to see them.

So yeah, as you say, free store trial.

They've got tallies who are autonomously looping the stores twice a day checking up to 30,000 products an hour.

I really look, the use case is familiar.

We've talked about it.

You guys talked about it on the show before.

We've had retailers like BJ and Snooks talk about it at previous grocery shop shows.

They're checking inventory and they are checking pricing and promotions accuracy and simply talk about saving up to about 50 labor hours a week using it.

And what do we think?

Well, inventory management is everything in groceries.

It's everything.

And your P and L is based on getting the balance right between availability and waste, especially in short shelf life.

So, you know, this is Morrison's in my age, it's just the latest retailer turning to robotic technology to try and help drive that balance and drive the efficiency.

Yeah, Ben, I agree with a lot of what you're saying.

I mean, I think the other thing for me is that the, the Morrison stores are typically much smaller in size than what we've seen in some of the BJ's and schnooks footprints that they're rolling out in the U.S.

so what this tells me is that, you know, there's actually still value in the investment in the robots doing the type of work that you're talking about saving the 50 labor hours a week even when you might have fewer SKUs and a smaller, you know, store floor pad that they're wandering.

So that, that to me is kind of the, the icing on the cake of what you just said because it, it's, it's proving out the use case regardless of, of store format.

Chris, are what are your thoughts here?

Tally, we talked about it, but this is a new, new, new, new format across the pond.

Chris?

Yeah, no, I mean I think it's just, you know, further validation of 2025 being the year of the robot, which we've said.

And kudos to Simbi for, you know, basically inking all These new partnerships.

And so to me, like, if you're not at least, least having this conversation internally as an executive in terms of the value that robots can bring, you know, I think you're missing out the point.

I'd add to what Ben said is inventory is important, but the other thing that's really important when you're a grocer particularly is pricing.

You got to get your pricing accurate too, because you know you don't have the right sign on.

It means you're missing out on the vendor income that the CPG brands have are going to provide you to run a promotion to move those units through your store.

So that's also especially vital.

All right, let's bring Omar on today's show.

Joining us now for five insightful minutes is Omar Akilah, the SVP of product at Infios and a former colleague of both Ann and myself at Target.

And Omar is here to discuss how AI is already and also will impact order management systems in the future.

Omar, let's start with this.

You've spoken about, you and I have spoken about this a lot.

You've spoken about order management being modular.

What does a modular order management system mean for retailers and why do you think it's an approach that many retailers would benefit from.

At the end of the day, companies are looking to unlock strategies and capabilities, not installing a bunch of S systems, right?

You think of oms, you think of tms, you think of wms, those were built more of a lumping of capabilities and functions in a dated view of the world.

The world today is much more dynamic.

And so I'm looking for functions that will unlock a strategy as opposed to installing a system and going through the time that it takes to do all of that.

So growing with, with, with our customers is absolutely essential to the mission at Infios.

And we do that by unlocking capabilities through modules, right?

Not full systems.

Meaning we're now coming in order management system.

We talked about inventory, we talked about optimization.

What if you're, say, what if you are a TikTok shop today and you do expand into additional channels?

What you really need is inventory visibility and maybe order optimization.

You're okay on orchestration.

You can get orders to the right fulfillment channels.

That's what we talk about when we talk about modular, right?

Being able to understand where the customer is, right.

Basically, you know, to, to meet the customer where they are and then grow them into the future they need.

And then we have the full capability suite, right, to help them get, you know, add each module on as they grow, we see that as the essential.

And, and you're seeing that a lot.

Chris, you talk about Shopify and the environment there, you see, you know, think about small.

Once you grow out of Shopify and you grow into the next segment, you know, where do you go?

What do you do?

Are you going to continue to install a bunch of point solutions and then you have to manage all of them or are you looking for modular solutions that grow into quote unquote suites, right.

That, that cover the breadth of the future and functionality that you need.

So we see whether it's order management, transport management, warehouse management, it's really about the functions and the capabilities, not about the systems that you're trying to unlock at whatever phase or stage you are in the business.

Omar, how is then predictive AI and machine learning kind of transforming the way that retailers are starting to think about omnichannel, order, orchestration and fulfillment.

So being able to understand what the data is telling you to optimize the right outcome for both you and your customer becomes absolutely essential in the future.

And we see that AI is the backbone and the foundation of order management.

From AI agents that help customers complete their orders to optimization and predictive AI to help help ensure that you're actually protecting the right amount of inventory and optimizing the right decisions relative to which fulfillment channel should fulfill this order for you to end to end anomaly detection, understanding that a problem is happening within the supply chain, being able to adapt and react in real time to solve this.

At the end of the day we see that AI will play a role in the supply chain end to end and it needs to be.

But the one thing we fundamentally believe is it has to be purposeful and guided by real use cases, not the buzz and the terms that you're hearing today.

For those listening like Omar is our go to when we have questions about oms.

He is the first person that I call whenever I have a question about this.

And so, so I want to ask you, I want to put you on the spot here.

So what are some concrete examples that you can share of, you know, when AI is used in real time and how it's actually impacting business decisions?

Think of inventory, single pool of inventory, how do I segment that, optimize it, protect it so that I ensure that I'm getting the right outcomes for my customers and my business.

Example, if I have a retail store, I know the inventory is not very accurate.

I need to protect the inventory.

If somebody wants to place a pickup order, I need to protect Enough of it to ensure that I'm not giving them a bad experience by them walking in the store and the inventory is not there, or while balancing the fact that I need to expose enough to not lose that sale.

Right.

But then when I actually take the order and I now need to potentially ship the order to that same customer because they decided instead of pickup, they're going to actually ship it, now I'm looking at that same inventory because I may want to ship out of the store because the store has both items.

One of them may not be as, as accurate as the other, but I'm willing to take that chance because consolidating an order for me is going to be more cost effective than splitting an order.

So that's where the intelligence of AI comes into play to understand, given each use case, how should I behave?

And trying to do that as a user, you and me, trying to do that in Excel spreadsheet or rules within an order management system.

Imagine how many what if rules you'd have to set up.

No, thanks.

Yeah, not, not something we're interested in.

Well, Omar, let's get you out of here on this very important question.

As you look ahead into the future, how do you think that AI and machine learning are going to reshape order management over like, let's just say the next three years?

And what role do you think modular intelligence driven systems like this are going to play in the future?

Absolutely.

I think at the end of the day, they need to be my companion.

Right?

Yeah.

As opposed to someone that's replacing my job.

They need to help me make the right decision.

They need to help me onboard the right solutions in, in the fastest way.

They need to ensure that I'm actually optimizing my cost from onboarding the solution all the way to managing the solution.

They need to ensure that they're actually helping my customers and, and enabling my customers to understand things like where's their order, you know, what can they modify their order to.

Potentially even creating an order, ultimately it should make things easier as opposed to more complex.

So in a world where things are changing by the minute and everything's getting more complex by the minute, we're looking at AI.

We see the role of AI and modular systems to make it easier for companies to do business by rationalizing all of the data that requires to make the right decisions and influence customers as well as business decisions to the optimal outcomes.

I mean, especially with your example of the spreadsheet.

So instead of managing the spreadsheet and all the complicated, what if scenarios that no one can possibly manage.

You're basically saying let's use AI and let them, let's manage the AI to do this more efficiently.

So absolutely.

From spreadsheets to even ages, right?

When I, when I pick up the phone and I call someone and I ask them, hey, you know, where's my.

Or there's some basic information that we can use AI to actually ensure that that agent that's servicing the customer for a basic question can, you know, AI can augment that and that same agent can actually go to the more complex and more strategic things that I need them to do for me.

Thanks, Omar.

Thank you.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Headline number four Adobe says that Pinterest is emerging as a search engine.

According to Chain Storage, new Adobe Express data reveals consumers are finding new uses for Pinterest.

About 2 in 5 U.S.

consumers, or 39% to be exact, recently surveyed by Adobe Express have used Pinterest as a search engine.

Survey data reveals that Gen Z respondents in particular are driving this trend at 47%, followed by millennials at 39%, Gen X at 37% and baby boomers at 25% of respondents.

More than one third of respondents also 36% said they start searches on Pinterest in instead of Google with Gen Z again being the Most likely at 39%.

Fascinating.

And 6 in 10 respondents said Pinterest search results feel more tailored to them than Google results, including 71% of Gen Z respondents.

And we had cheap, we had Chat GPT last week and now Pinterest.

Should Google be even more scared this week?

I mean this is some really interesting data.

What's your read on this headline?

Yeah, and let's not forget that Meta announced their, you know, search competitor with ChatGPT this last week too.

So yes, I would say this is something that everyone needs.

Every platform right now needs to be thinking about the role that they play in new search behaviors.

And I think Pinterest has an especially important role to play because I think that what we're finding, especially with younger, the younger demographic is was clear in some of the stats that you just gave.

Chris us image based search is growing in popularity.

This is how people are.

They're discovering products.

And now we heard Sean Scott from Google again at at Shop Talk just a few weeks ago said that 20% of image based searches are are commerce related.

So they result in a commerce based purchase.

And I think that Pinterest is playing a really important role here.

I contacted two people who are in their designers and stylists and they are using Pinterest all the time, exclusively for search.

I don't personally with my own search behavior, but they said, they said similar things to what you are calling out here.

It's more tailored to them.

It gives them visual representation of the things that they're searching, which again I think is so contrary to how we've all searched in the past.

It's always been text based search and now that we have tools like Lens, like, you know, search image based search finders on sites like Wayfair or on Pinterest, you're able to search in this new way.

And for a lot of people it's merging those worlds of discovery and search together and, and giving you a new way to do that.

So I, I think that this is actually bigger news and, and probably one of the, the bigger moves from Pinterest.

I know they've been trying to do this for a long time, but I think that it's going to be a big move for them as they kind of stake their claim as being the go to for visual based search when you're looking to find a product or find similar products to something that you see out in the world.

Ben, what, what did you agree with?

What do you disagree with?

What would you add to what Ben said or to what angel said?

So on substance, I comp, I completely agree, Anne.

I completely.

I think, you know, the fragmentation of search is one of the big trends that retailers and brands need to be paying attention to right now.

It was one of our big trends in the shop retail site guys that are prepared for our Vegas show back in March.

And, and I agree that Pinterest are doing some really good work in this space.

I think there's been some more recent announcements just this week about some of the AI tools that they're building in.

So really great.

And this is something that's got real world implications of, you know, understanding how to, and where to influence shoppers and how to help them discover products is huge and it leads to where you invest your marketing dollars.

So I think it's a big trend.

I want to understand, but I'm gonna have to go on a rant.

Can I, can I have a rant?

Yeah, please do.

All right.

Because I've got to give, I want to give a slap on the wrists for Adobe Express, their PR team on this, the journalists who've done it.

This is not good research.

This is so, I mean, whenever you have did research, he's got to pass the sniff test really quickly.

And the headline is 36% of consumers start their search on Pinterest instead Google.

That's just not right.

Yeah, like, come on, come on, just stand up in your office, get 10 people.

Where do you start your search?

Put your hands up.

If it's Google or Pinterest, you can disprove that one.

So the analyst, I have dug into it.

This is a survey based on just 800 people on one day in March.

That's not enough to draw conclusions on.

There's no details on geographic representation.

And then the numbers that they quote are actually only for people who've said yes, they do use Pinterest.

So actually this 36% stat is only 36% of the nine of the 39%.

We're getting really geeky.

But even then I'm not buying it.

So look, I think there's a really important story here.

I've got the privilege in my role of getting to assess and coordinate work with research companies about the topics that we put on show.

I would not put this research on our stage.

This, this, there's some great, really great, innovative consumer research out there and unfortunately this falls short of it.

It's such an important topic.

That's why it's kind of wound me up.

So I, anyway, rant over unless, please disagree with me.

But I, I, I don't buy the numbers at all.

No, I, I'm seeing Hallelujah.

I wanna, I'll say why I don't want to go back to Ed to see if she wants to reframe her points.

But like, like, yeah, I mean, hallelujah.

This is why we started this show is to pick apart what is real and not real in the media from the perspective of, of the three of us really, as examples of people that have done and lived this, you on the research side, us on the retailer side.

And 100.

Like, I don't even know how they're defining search because when was the last time I went to Pinterest for general information, like, who was president in 1962?

Like, I'm not going to Pinterest for that.

And that's part of a search query.

So like, I don't understand that.

And then the other point, Ben, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll take your rat and, and see, I'll call the rat and, and meet it at where it was.

But like, getting people to search on Pinterest is one thing, but getting them to conduct commerce is another thing.

And we've heard, I've heard on stage many times at shop talk and Other conferences is pictures positioning themselves to do that.

And even the article says the retailers don't know how to use it for that.

And so that's still a fundamental problem.

But I am buying 100, like you said, into search changing and people need to think about it because I mentioned the Kentucky Derby at the outset.

I said this to Anne yesterday.

We were sitting back at the end of our weekend and I said to my buddies, I said, you know who won the weekend?

Chat freaking GPT.

We were using chat GPT every single day, every single hour to do everything.

It was wild.

And I've never seen adoption to that point so quickly happen.

And so yes, that's, that's absolutely gonna, going to continue to change the landscape here.

But Anne, what do you think?

Are you revising your, your bullishness on Pinterest at all given not in a shopping context?

Not in a shopping context at all?

Because I think that you're talking, I totally agree with what you guys are saying from a search perspective.

Like if I'm going to find out who the president was in, you know, 1923, like, yes, I'm not going to go to Pinterest for that search.

But I think if you're talking about intent to purchase or intent to inspire a commerce based purchase, I do think that Pinterest has a role to play here that we have to give credit to.

I do think that there are people who are going to Pinterest for these searches.

We may not be of that group that's doing that, but I do think that it's important for brands to recognize, even when you're going to chatgpt or Perplexity or Gemini to conduct searches for product or you're using Lens for a search for product, they are returning Pinterest results in those searches.

So I think there, there is a connection point here.

I think it's just, just not all search is going in that direction.

And that's why I was, I was really focused in at the beginning of this conversation on the ways that search is changing with image based search being a, a core function that Pinterest can provide here.

Yeah, and, and I, look, I, I really agree and this is what, this is what wound me up about that press release because you're absolutely right and you, and it's so important for everybody to understand how this is changing.

I think data that I've seen that I would more buy into says, yeah, okay, look across the whole search environment, Google dominates and search engines dominate, but commerce is different.

So yes, search engines are really important.

Google dominates.

But then retailer owned properties both online and in store, that's how people discover products are really important.

And within that market, Amazon Search completely dominates.

And then you've got social media and social media is 10 to 20% and it's growing and it's changing.

But within that Meta still dominates.

That's why Meta and Amazon and Google have got such huge advertising businesses.

But the social media bits for useful search is growing.

We've seen it through TikTok, we've talked about that before and Pinterest is absolutely part of that.

What then becomes really interesting is to think how do you influence that if some of your traditional marketing tools and your sponsorship aren't available?

And that's exactly what Perplexity told us in their keynote at Shop Talk Spring said.

We are not providing the ability to influence search results commercially.

We want it to be organic.

And that has been paying to influence search results is the number one bit of digital marketing.

So you remove that.

We still don't know what that market looks like.

So that, that, you know, I think it's fascinating and search is changing so quickly and our ability to, to influence is changing so quickly with it.

Well, and I would argue even Ben, that Google's not in a position to do that yet either.

Like Google's still so focused on returning the right search results that they're still working to get, get to the level where commerce is integrated into the Google search too.

So I think that's where we get to this is fair game search, Search for commerce is fair game right now.

And everybody who is any, you know, any search engine, any social platform, any brand, you all need to be really thinking about how you're getting involved and what unique proposition you have to a consumer to come to you first, first for search.

I didn't even talk about the agentic AI angle in that whole discussion either, which just adds a whole nother layer to the discussion, which we don't have time for today.

But we talked a little bit about it last week.

I mean your head just starts to spin in terms of where this all goes, right?

Absolutely.

All right, let's go to headline number five.

Lowe's has rolled out an AI assistant for Store Associates according to Chain Storage.

Again, Lowe's is introducing Milo Companion, an AI enabled employee app developed in partnership with OpenAI.

The app provides access to product details, project advice and inventory information and also speeds up the employee onboarding process.

According to Lowe's, the launch of Milo Companion to all associates across its more than 1700 stores marks the first time a retailer has successfully implemented this type of technology at scale.

Milo Companion uses generative AI to let associates obtain answers to customer inquiries using natural conversational prompts, including voice to text for faster hands free use.

The prompts can include inquiries like what kind of fertilizer works best for Bermuda grass?

Or how can I fix a leaky faucet and receive actionable information on the handheld devices that they already use.

Ben, you get this question and it is also the A and M put you on the spot question they want to know.

Ben, if Lowe's customers can now access the same AI assistant as In Store Associates, do you think they'll eventually just turn to their phones for In Store Home improvement asks?

I think it's a really good question and I think it's okay that it doesn't have to be an either or and I think both are absolutely fine.

So I really like this.

This is a great use case for AI.

Why is it a great use case for AI?

There are certain categories where you a higher level of customer service is really helpful, but when you walk into the store, you've got no idea if the person you're speaking to has been in this category selling these products for 20 years or was just recruited last week and knows less about it than you do.

So providing tools to help that consistency of experience is great.

And you know what, if actually you're stood in front of the fixture and you just want to do that same query on your phone, that's okay.

It's like the checkout versus self checkout option.

Sometimes introverts just like to walk around the store without talking to anybody and that's okay as well.

So let's not see it as a negative.

Yeah, I think it's fine.

You're democratizing the data and you're providing a better quality of response to everybody regardless of how they want to access it.

And I think for that, great.

Well done Loz.

Yeah, I agree.

I'm going to knock the reporting on this one a little bit too because I feel like, like it's, it's just highlighting that particular use case of how to fix a leaky faucet and not what I think Lowe's set out like.

I think Lowe's deserves more credit for what they set out to partner with ChatGPT to create with this Milo assistant, which really after talking to a Lowe's executive earlier this year who worked on this project, which really was about how do we use this for onboarding, how do we help our, our associates in the store who just, just started their summer job at Lowe's, understand very quickly, like what time does our shipment get in, how quick, you know, what's our warranty like on these power tools so that they can quickly have that knowledge.

And then Lowe's was using that to help them better train associates in the future.

Like they're using that data in that way.

And I agree.

I think the idea that as a consumer, I'm going to go up to the 16 year old for their first summer job at Lowe's and be like, how do I fix this leaky faucet?

You'll know real quick whether or not you're getting the expert there or somebody who's just going to collectively look at ChatGPT or this Milo assistant with you on it.

But I think there's still value here in what Milo was set out to do.

But Chris, do you agree with that or are you, are you still, are you thinking that you're not going to, you'd look this up yourself?

I think 100% I look, I'd look this up myself, but I think there's still value in it.

You know, like if, if I don't know how to fix a leaky faucet, I don't want to stand there as a sales associate get, you know, chat GPTs that for an answer for me when I could just do that myself.

That just makes, that makes no sense.

So, so, and again, in addition to media though, I think, I think Lowe's PR deserves some, some, some tarnish here on, on their, on, on them as well.

And, and I like Lowe's pr.

We've worked with them a lot of times.

But like, like Chase Rage didn't get the line about the fertilizer and the leaky faucet on their own.

That was fed to them through like their communications team.

And so they're, they're picking up and running with it.

And so, so, and that's where the disservice comes in I think for the, the retail industry overall, because they're looking at this, they're seeing those use cases and then some people are probably going, oh, do we need tools to arm our sales associates to make them better at their jobs?

Probably not in this way because at the end of the day we already know people go into the stores and think that they know more than the associate anyway because they probably been in the job for like two weeks.

Right.

So that phenomenon is still going to be there.

But from a, from a training perspective, it's important.

Even as a great tool to assist the high consideration sale where, you know, like, you're, you're having to walk people through a flooring installation as an example or something like that.

Like, that can then prompt the sales associate for like, these are the questions you need to ask based on the responses that you're hearing from them to understand more about who they are.

Or you can pipe the loyalty program into those employee devices too and get all the benefits from the questions that you can ask in a highly assisted sale.

That stuff matters.

But, but, but the way the story is positioned, there's, there's no way.

There's, there's no way I'm asking somebody.

I'm just gonna chat GPT whatever fertilizer I need for my Bermuda grass, you know?

Right.

I mean, or you'd have looked it up.

Like, you'd have looked up how to fix your leaky faucet and made the list before you go into.

Yeah, right.

For something simple like that.

100%, yes.

All right, well, let's go on to the lightning round, you guys.

Ben, question number one is for you.

A recent article in Food Dive warned of the elimination of some of our most nostalgic childhood foods due to regulatory changes in ingredients and inflation, among other things.

What nostalgic food would you be most sad to see wiped off of grocery store shelves?

Or perhaps it's already been wiped off of shelves in the UK because you're much further along than we are in.

The U.S.

i know it's.

It's still there, and it's still there in the US Lots of nostalgia for the.

So in the, in the UK we come Kellogg's Variety Pack.

I think in the US they're called Fun Pack.

You know, you get eight little different types of Kellogg's cereals.

So there was like a birthday treat, and it was the only time that I ever got sugary or chocolatey breakfast cereals.

So love those.

And my girls still love those to today, so we still have them.

My oldest is needed 18.

And yet we still have variety packs for birthdays.

So, yeah, lots of nostalgia for those.

Oh, my gosh, I love that.

I thought you were gonna say Curly Whirly.

That was the first gift that you gave us, Ben, was a Curly Whirly that we, Chris and I got to enjoy, thanks to you.

But, but Kellogg's Variety Pack.

All right.

Keep making it Kellogg's.

Nicely done.

All right, number number two, it's National Teacher Appreciation this week here in the United States.

Ben, who is one teacher in your life that you would like to give a nod of thanks to on this podcast.

Oh, man.

I'd like to give a nod to Mr.

Sheehan.

And Mr.

Sheehan was my grade seven to nine business and economics teacher.

So at a small school in sort of rural Yorkshire, completely opened my eyes to the world of commerce and finance.

And I've been fascinated ever since.

So, yeah, thanks, Mr.

Sheeran.

I appreciate you.

Oh, my God, that's amazing.

Mr.

Sheehan.

Changing lives one kid at a time.

Question number three, Ben.

According to JOR CEO Kristen Sevilla in a recent payments article, 76% of retailers outside the US will not shop U.

S brands because they can no longer do so profitably.

What is one clothing item that you would smuggle back to the UK to sell out of your boot and make a killing off of?

I love the use of boot, raven and trunk.

Thank you.

And look, I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole.

I'm calling BS on that.

Stat that as well.

But let's not.

Let's not go there.

Let's not go there.

I mean, yeah, the world where you can't get Nike or CKR Ralph or Converse on New Balance outside the US we're okay.

But if I could, I've got a.

I've got a wardrobe full of North Face stuff that I wear when I go hiking.

So I would bring a suitcase load of North Face stuff for me to keep me going.

And then maybe with some.

Some new.

New Balancers.

And then I have a suitcase for a classic Nike sneakers that I could sell as well.

Because there'd be.

If you could no longer get Nike sneakers outside of the US you could make.

I'd make a killing on those.

You would.

That would be.

That would be a great strategy.

Ben.

Ben's.

Ben's bargain boot.

That's what.

That's what's happening.

Bargain boot.

I like that.

Triple B.

Yeah.

That's great.

And who knew we had a hiker on the podcast?

Dad, for those longtime listeners, you know how big of a fan I am of hiking.

All right, Ben, last one who won the match gala.

Oh, my God.

So this was a hot topic in the Shop Talk office yesterday, a conversation I very quickly realized I could add no value to whatsoever.

But I did listen.

So my colleagues Rebecca and Josephine today are running content for our new luxury show, and they were raving about Lana Del Rey's look, which.

Which was from Valentino.

Now, I think there might be some ballad, some bias going on because Andrea Caffeine from Valentina is one of our really engaged ad board members.

So that might have swung it.

But you know, I'm gonna go with them as I I know nothing in this space.

So Lana Del Rey is what they've told me to say.

Wow, my mine was Diana Ross because when was the last time Diana Ross was in the news?

But Ed, what's yours?

You're the fashionista of the three of.

Us, I mean there was a lot to love.

I think Dochis look look was amazing, the Louis Vuitton short set.

But I think the person that for me won like theme wise it was Janelle Monae that like the reveal of her outfit was so good and man, I love the Met Gala.

So good.

Very nice.

All right, Happy birthday today to Eddie Bryant, Brecken Meyer and to the woman who who wrote to me what is still the most raw and real movie about life in high school, Amy Heckerling, who gave us Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

And remember, if you can only read or listen to one podcast in the business or retail, read or listen to one retail blog in the business.

I should say make it Omniton, the only retail media outlet run by two former executives from a current top 10 US retailer.

Our Fast Five podcast is the quickest, fastest rundown of all the week's top news and our daily newsletter, the Retail Daily Minute, tells you all you need to know each day or to stay on top of your game as a retail executive and also regularly feature special content that is exclusive to us that Ann and I take a lot of pride in doing just for you.

Thanks as always for listening in.

Please remember to like and leave us a review wherever you happen to listen to your podcast or on YouTube, you can follow us today by simply going to YouTube.com omnitalkretail Ben, if people want to get in touch with you in any way, shape or form, if they want to snag tickets to Shop Talk Europe, what's the best way for them to do that?

So I can always be reached on LinkedIn such as benmiller, shoptalk, and shoptalkeurope.com for the last few remaining tickets for Shop Tour Europe.

And if you're gonna come, especially if you're a retailer brand, make sure you signed up by the end of this week because that's our deadline for the cut for the meetings program.

That's right.

That's right.

Great drop, Ben.

All right.

Well, Ben, thanks so much for being with us.

We love the conversation, love the rant, love the debate.

This show got a little more salty than usual.

As I said, at the top of the show.

So until next week, on behalf of all of us at Omni Talk Retail, as always, be careful out there.