Target Turns The Dial Back to 2005, E-Grocery Surges 28% & Bed Bath Wants Your Coupons | Fast Five

Hello and welcome to this week's Omnitalk Fast 5.

This week's podcast was recorded from my hotel room in Vienna, Austria, where it is hot, hot, hot to say the least.

But not, not as hot as this week's headlines producer Ella.

Let's roll this week's teaser trailer.

I do grocery delivery and it saves me money.

Not only saves me time, the wage rates.

In Sweden, the starting wage rate in a grocery store is $35 an hour.

And yet they can make E GR to work.

What the heck's going on over there?

I have a really hard time calling something a feel good story.

If the CEO says only two out of five stores are in very good condition.

Jen, who is this month's omn star?

If I was to do a one to ten gimmick scale, I'd give this like a 99.

Jen Han, welcome back.

How you been keeping?

I've been keeping well.

How are you, Chris?

I'm good, I'm good.

I'm a little bit warm.

I'm a little bit warm.

You know, wearing a suit when it's 95 degrees and 50% humidity in Europe with very little air conditioning is not my favorite thing, Jen.

But, but I'm, I'm bright eyed and bushy tailed and excited to join you.

Have you join us for the podcast this week?

Without a doubt.

Yeah.

Well, you know, I'm a big fan of hot yoga.

I think we've talked about that before.

So if you could just think of your suit as sort of being inside of a sauna.

Like I pay for that kind of heat.

So maybe that'll help you through your last, what week you have there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm here for like three or four more days.

You've already got me thinking Namaste.

And namaste.

This is going to work.

This is going to work.

Jen, I want to ask you about one other thing before we get started.

Day two is jury duty.

What's your history with jury duty?

I have very little history with jury duty and I need to knock on some wood here, but I have not been called to be on jury duty yet.

Really?

You have not ever?

I've not either and, but I've now got it next week for the first time.

I get back from Europe on Saturday and I've got jury duty on Monday.

I feel like I, I feel like the gods do not like me right now.

Jen, you finally get back and then they're like, and you can go sit in this wooden chair.

Yeah, yeah.

You can call in every day to see if we need you.

Yes, yes.

Story of my life.

See if somebody needs me.

But.

But yes.

So for that reason, Jen, and the reason I'm bringing this up on the front end of this podcast is for all the Army Talk fans out there.

Because of that, we are not going to have a podcast next week.

We're hoping we can have one the week after, but that's still a little tbd.

But we'll let you know if that changes.

But yeah, so that's the thing, Jenna, you know, you probably can understand this too.

Being an entrepreneur, jury duty is tough for entrepreneurs.

It's kind of a big deal.

Yes, yes.

I'm hoping you're not giving me any type of juju that means, like, it's headed my way next, because I don't think that that works.

But we can just call it a summer break for Omni Talk.

You're just taking a one week summer break.

That's right.

While Chris has to go to jury duty.

That's right.

That's right.

Namaste.

Namaste.

Namaste.

So many times you can say Namaste during this podcast.

All right, Jen.

Well, before we get to the headlines, we always reserve a spot for you to highlight this month's Omnistar because for those listening, whenever Jen is on the show, we love having her because she is so much closer to the ground in terms of knowing which retail executives are really making the grade inside their organizations.

And for those new to the podcast, our Omnistar Award is the award we give out each month in partnership with Corso to recognize the top omnichannel operators out there.

Not the pundits, not the so called experts.

God knows we've got enough of those.

But the real life retail operators making a difference in their organizations.

And let's not forget Corso's AI copilot coaches retail leaders to optimize store performance at every level, transform retail operations from data overload into data powered.

So, Jen, who is this month's Omnistar?

All right, so this month's Omni star is Gabe Disbrow.

Gabe is the president and CEO at Lever Supermarkets.

They're out of Denver.

An independent that operates a few different chains or what do I want to say?

Banners in different markets across the US before moving into the independent space, Gabe was actually.

He was with Target, your alma mater.

He spent some time with Aldi, my alma mater.

And I just think it's been really cool to see how Gabe has transitioned into the independent space.

He's very heavily involved with The NGA now does some work with nga.

I believe he's on the board, does some work in D.C. to advocate for independent grocers.

And he's a big proponent.

If you ever talk to Gabe, he's a big proponent of.

He lives his life this way, but everyone on his teams, he's like, I just want to do epic.

So this is, I hope I can say that word.

You can blurt me out.

Well, you just did.

But honestly, he's just, he's one of those operators and those leaders that gives autonomy to say like, I don't want to get in your way of doing what's right for the customer and the business.

So it's really fun to watch.

And he's an incredible leader.

So congrats to Gabe.

Yeah, congrats, Gabe.

Yeah.

And I saw that, Gabe, to your point, he was an executive team leader at Target back in the day.

So, yeah, shared roots.

Gabe, congratulations.

And also, you know, out of Colorado as well, where we've got some ties there in addition.

All right, Jen.

Well, let's get to this week's Fast5, which is of course brought to you with the help and support of the A and M consumer and retail group Miracle Corso, Ocampo Capital and Valak.

In this week's Fast 5, we've got news on June E grocery sales surging 28% year over year.

Kroger reporting Q1 2026 earning with E Commerce turning a profit for the very first time.

Bed Bath and Beyond asking customers to bring in their old coupons.

Target teaming up with fashion icon Isaac Mizrahi in a brand new creative director at large roll.

And Rita Karabage, the Chief Strategy officer at the Roll IT Group, joins us for five insightful minutes on the latest lessons learned in making E groceries profitable.

But we begin today with a major leadership shakeup.

Ajo Delez naming a former Amazon exec as its new US C CEO, headline number one is of course brought to you with the help and support of the A and M Consumer and Retail Group.

The A and M Consumer and Retail Group is a management consulting firm that tackles the most complex challenges and advances its clients, people and communities toward their maximum potential.

CRG brings the experience, tools and operator like pragmatism to help retailers and consumer products companies be on the right side of disruption.

All right, Jen, here we go.

Number one.

According to Grocery dive, Ajo Delez has nominated Claire Peters, former VP of Worldwide Fresh at Amazon, to serve as the new CEO of Ajo Delez USA effective September 8, pending shareholder approval, Peters will succeed J.J. fleeman, who is departing at the end of June to eventually become CEO of Dollar General on January 1, 2027.

Peters brings 30 years of international retail experience, having also held executive roles at Woolworths Group in Australia and Tesco in the UK and Thailand, including serving as Tesco's chief operating officer in Thailand.

Jen, as our resident talent expert and if you are Ajo Delez, is this the succession move you would have made?

We're starting out really hot here today.

I actually, I like this move.

There's a lot of information.

I do.

There's a lot of information.

If we were handling the wreck, if we were working to fill this role, that I would need to understand.

But with the information I have, I really like this move.

I think it certainly signals that they're ready to do something different.

I don't think it's expected.

I think it's new and different on purpose.

I mean, this is a legacy industry, right, And a legacy organization.

So they obviously could have promoted from within, but hiring Claire to me says we're ready for change, we want different moving forward.

I'll help.

I'll hold.

Delays is a.

Is a super complex business, right?

It's not just one organization operating a handful of different formats.

We're talking about a distinct, I should say a parent company that operates distinct companies, brands, business units.

Each one of them have their own leadership team, their own culture, customer base and strategies.

100%.

And I think it takes a pretty dynamic individual to do all of that, to be CEO of all of that.

Really.

Well, obviously I wasn't involved in the interviews for Claire, so I don't know that for certain, but I do like some of what I see in her background.

So looks like she has some consulting background on top of that grocery experience.

And obviously with Woolworths and Amazon.

Not even necessarily traditional, especially not traditional US Grocery.

But again, I, I see how some people might have questions about this, but I'm a fan of it if it's for the right reason of yes, and we're ready to be different.

We're not ready.

We don't want to stick to sort of traditional grocery and get stuck in what has been done.

We're ready for someone to come in with fresh eyes, fresh perspective, and chances are Ahold has the, the talent to support her in terms of like, what has been done in the context in the grocery industry that's there.

To me, this signals like we're ready to be different.

And I, I think I support that move.

On their end.

Got it.

I guess one plus side is she knows Amazon's grocery strategy probably pretty well, you know, which is probably a good.

A good thing to bring to the table, you know, to whatever degree she talk about it, you know, which is something you have to keep in mind.

But so that's interesting, Jen.

So, like, to me, the only thing I'd say is, like, that bar feels really low to me in terms of, like, we just want somebody that can shake it up.

Like, couldn't you find somebody with US Grocery experience that could shake it up?

Sure.

There were other candidates considered that had more traditional US Grocery experience.

I. I'm just saying that with the information I have and what I see, like making this move says whatever she brought to the table was different enough that they were willing to adjust their bar.

I'm sure their original bar said they had to be U.S. grocery, and I'm not certain of that.

Right.

But I think whatever she brought to the table was enough that they said, okay, great.

Like, this isn't the exact resume we would have looked for originally, but after meeting her, she's exactly who we need for the job.

Yeah.

And I guess she does have some US Grocery experience, having run Amazon Fresh, although we don't know how that went, but I guess it does.

It does count.

What about the fact too, Jen?

I mean, the one misgiving I have in terms of like, and I don't know, Claire at all, but I just think this isn't the.

I think for me personally, this isn't the resume I would want, and particularly when I put it in context, because the actual parent ahold Deleze, they have a new CEO coming in too, who's also an outsider, which means now you have an outsider running the global brand, and now you have an outsider running the US Operation, too.

It just seems like a lot of change at one time.

So I just.

For that reason alone, I. I don't love it.

And I don't love the fact because I do think the US Grocery market is very, very specific in terms of how it works and how it operates, that I think not having someone that has some track record of success in that market, you're kind of taking a flyer on.

On him or her, no matter who it is.

Yeah, it does.

It does certainly seem like they're willing to bet on her based on whatever they learned about her in the interview process, because it is one of those, again, while I actually am energized by it, because I'm like, yeah, let's do something different.

Yeah, it certainly isn't what I would have expected.

Right.

I wouldn't have expected that.

So this feels like a resume that when we're working on a search, we might have to talk the client into the interview.

Right.

We might have to say, look, I know based on this resume, it's not exactly what you wanted to see, but I'm telling you, after speaking to this individual, you want to hear what she has to say.

And sometimes those are the best candidates, the people that would have been sort of automatically turned down if we really were strict on resume alone.

So I hear what you're saying, and I do.

I would certainly have questions.

I just think, to me, what it's signaling, both of those hires being outsiders, is that the board, you know, I think they're just ready for change, and they're bringing in that change by this change in leadership.

And it's.

It's always going to be a risk.

They're.

They're betting on these decisions, but perhaps a necessary one.

Okay, so headline number two.

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All right, Chris.

So headline number two.

New data from Brick Meets Click and Mercatus shows us e. Grocery sales hit 9.8 billion in June of 2025, which was a 28% surge year over year, with all three fulfillment methods posting gains of 25% or more.

So a couple of notes here.

According to Brick meets Click, recent grocery shopper survey, Delivery sales reached 3.8 billion, up 29% year over year.

Pickup jumped nearly 25% to 4.3 billion, and ship to home surged nearly 33% to 1.7 billion.

Wow.

Yeah.

All three of those jumping over the 25%.

The report attributes a significant share of delivery growth to the rise of what it calls the.

The free delivery era, I. E. The membership and subscription programs that effectively eliminate delivery fees as a barrier to adoption.

Meanwhile, in store, grocery sales slipped during the month driven by the surge online and a continuing shift in warehouse holds.

Identify as their primary grocery store.

Walmart is a central villain in the story.

If you are a traditional supermarket capturing nearly a full additional percentage point in primary grocery store share compared to June of 2024.

Hard discounters like Aldi also gained roughly 1.5 percentage points in primary store share, while supermarkets lost more than 2 percentage points overall.

Okay, lots of numbers there, Chris.

Yeah, lots of numbers.

Lots of numbers.

Love numbers.

Yes.

So my question to you, the 28% year over year growth in e grocery is staggering.

But what jumps out most to you in this data and what's the single most important thing you think a regional grocer should be doing right now in response?

Okay, so, so to the second part of that question, I say Jen.

I say look to Sweden.

Jen, look to Sweden.

And I'll explain why more in a second.

But before I do that first, I want to answer the first part of that question.

So.

Because I think there's a number of things to be gleaned from this data.

Number one, people are supposed to be cash strapped right now.

You know, the macroeconomic times are tough.

Gas prices are high.

So e groceries should be.

E groceries should be a relatively more expensive way for people to get their groceries.

Because even subscription programs, when you get right down to it, those cost money.

They're not.

While they give you free delivery, like you said, the free delivery area era, not era area, free delivery era.

They're not free.

They cost money.

So that tells me that the important thing to remember here is people are really time starved.

They're using this service because they need something that gives them time back in their day and they're just trying to get by.

And so they're kind of almost leveraging up the delivery as kind of a way to just help them get through life and to fund whatever it is they need to fund.

The second point I'd make is ship to home surging the most.

That's pretty important because I wonder how much Amazon's grocery interstitial, you know, before you actually make the purchase is starting to impact that.

Like as you go and buy your HDMI cables or whatever, it's pretty palpable that they say, hey, do you want to buy an avocado?

Do you want to buy a banana?

I mean, I almost get hooked into buying bananas every time, Jen, when I see that, like, it definitely arrests you when you're in their app.

And so my hunch is that it's probably impacting this more than we think, as in addition to Walmart actually having the success that we've talked about on the show a lot.

But then finally Sweden.

So I joked about Sweden and I'm dead serious about it because I was having a good conversation with somebody and I think what the regional grocers need to look at is like the examples are out there of grocers in areas that have very tough economic challenges to deal with.

And so Sweden, incredibly high wage rates.

I was talking to the folks at Strongpoint and the wage rates in Sweden, the starting wage rate in a grocery store is $35 an hour, and yet they can make e groceries start to work.

And so, like, that's where I'd be looking.

I'd be going, I'd be saying to my teams, I'd be like, let's benchmark what the heck's going on over there, or hire a consultant to do it for you.

Whatever it is, whatever it takes.

Those are the markets where I'd be looking very hard to say, what can we learn from them, what can we take, what can we apply really quickly?

Because if they can make it work, you've got time to figure out how to make this whole thing work.

Yeah, I like that.

I love that it isn't about paying less to the employees that are getting it done.

Right.

It's a.

There's a way to do both.

So I, I guess I didn't realize that I would say look to Sweden, but maybe that's my response as well.

Chris.

Look to Sweden.

Look to Sweden.

Like a Seinfeld episode.

Look to Sweden, Jen.

Yeah, Producer Ella.

I feel like we have to have some type of Sweden clip coming out of this.

But anyways, yeah, I mean, what I thought about was if I'm a regional grocery chain, I mean, this seems pretty simple, but it's just that we have to find a way to differentiate our delivery if we're regional from the big players.

Right.

Because at scale, they're going to do it differently and probably better in some ways than the regional players can.

But there has to be a way, and I think that has to be very important because we can't rest our laurels on, oh, they're going to keep walking in the store for us because we're local and we're right around the corner because the data is showing something totally different.

So whatever that might be, campaigns, marketing around how you're supporting local through E grocery through.

Even if you're buying online, this is how it impacts.

I don't know what it is.

Right.

But I think there has to be a way to differentiate and continue to look at how can our customers feel something slightly different and better if we're delivering their groceries to their doorstep than Amazon, Walmart, you know, the big players.

And I'll make a comment on your strapped for cash piece.

Chris.

Yeah, I agree with you.

Everyone's strapped for time.

I mean, maybe that's always the case.

But I certainly hear that from everyone today but myself.

I do grocery delivery and it saves me money.

Not only saves me time does.

That's the thing.

It does, it can.

Yeah.

So I think people are catching on to that as well.

Which is a whole nother situation we need to look at in grocery.

Like those, those purchases that I used to make if I walked in the store, but they weren't on my list.

Like how are then they're all trying.

Right.

With the ads to get those still in front of me.

But honestly, when we look at our budget month to month, when I get groceries delivered, I hit it every time when I go into a store, I end up with Tupperware and sprinklers and who knows what, right.

Candy bars from every section.

So I actually find that I personally save money and time with this and I think the consumers are seeing the same thing.

Yeah, that's a great point, Jen.

That's a really good point.

Yeah.

Because it goes back to what we've talked about with smart cards the whole time too.

Like, you know the, the tough part about shopping the grocery stores, you don't see your bill until the very end unless you're like calculating it all up, you know, as you're shopping, which is very, very hard to do.

Whereas online you get that right away.

You can see what you're spending in relation to your budget and easily remove items.

Which is hard to do in a grocery store too because you can get, you know, down seven aisles.

You're not going back to put it away necessarily either or, you know, or you could be one of those people and I guess just put it in whatever aisle you want.

But I hope, no hope, I hope no one's doing that because that's just mean for the grocery, for the store associates that are working the store as.

A single consumer ordering that grocery people share lists.

Right.

Or share carts.

But I don't have my kids hanging out of the cart asking for Twinkies.

Right.

I don't have.

There's just not the same consumer behavior online that there is in store.

And so spend wise I'm able to just get what I had on the list.

I'm at my house, I can see if I have sour cream instead of just.

I'll get the sour cream in case I don't have it.

Right.

There's a lot of reasons I've had to make this case to many people that delivery is actually saves me money.

I don't know of everyone but myself.

I'm the Use case.

That's a good point too.

Cause you're bringing up the parent no factor.

If you got kids, you don't have to say no.

You just are in total control of it and that is what it is.

So Jen, before we, before we move on, I'm curious, so if you are a regional grocer, is this a five alarm fire statistic for you?

I don't think it's surprising.

Are you?

I mean, I, I do think it's, I mean, five alarm fire, that sounds very dramatic.

So I'm, I'm hesitant to say yes.

I know.

I do think it's a must have.

I think there's only one that I'm aware of that has said they're never doing it and that's Trader Joe's.

They're never doing E Commerce.

Right.

But if I'm a regional grocer and I haven't figured out how to do this profitably, which most of them haven't, I would say this is my number one, one of my top focuses.

So one of my five alarm fires.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

So, yeah, basically you're saying the building's not burning down yet, but you gotta make sure the sprinkler systems are working.

That's kind of how I would take that.

We just have to be taking it seriously, which I think most of them are.

I think they're taking it seriously.

But a way to, different small way to differentiate.

Get some creativity onto your team instead of just, hey, this is what Walmart does.

We're going to keep doing this.

It's like how can you differentiate?

Should definitely be important.

I don't think these stats are surprising.

I think we all felt it.

I think they all knew these stats were coming.

So the, the stats necessarily aren't the five alarm fire.

But if you haven't figured out or if you don't have big plans to figure out delivery, I think it could be a five alarm fire.

The ship to home is what's, is what's growing, you know, and that's, that's, that's people going directly to the retailer to get the groceries they want delivered.

So.

All right, Jen, great discussion, great points.

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Headline number three.

Kroger reported Q1 fiscal 2026 results this week, posting $46.1 billion in total sales, which was up about 2% year over year.

But its identical sales, excluding fuel, rose just 1%, which came in below expectations.

However, according to Grocery Dive and Kroger's earnings release, the purported milestone of the quarter was that Kroger's E Commerce business, including its media operations, turned a profit for the first time ever in Q1, ahead of management's original timeline.

Adjusted E Commerce sales grew 19% in the quarter, led by delivery, and Kroger Precision Marketing profit grew more than 20%.

CEO Greg Forens said he has visited over 100 stores since taking the role and observed that roughly two out of five are in very good condition, two out of five are in moderate condition, and one out of five needs meaningful improvement, which if you're keeping score at home, means that more than half the store base has work to do.

Kroger, meanwhile, held its full year 2026 guidance steady.

Jen, how would you assess where Kroger stands in its turnaround right now and is the digital story the feel good story Kroger is pitching it to be?

I mean, I think this is positive momentum.

I like to celebrate all the little wins.

So I'll call this a small win in the fact that E Grocery and Retail Retail Media are turning a profit for the first time.

I mean, we just talked about that in the last headline.

We have to be able to do that profitably and perhaps they've already looked at Sweden.

Chris I don't know, maybe that's their secret.

But I I so I definitely see it as positive momentum.

I just, I have a really hard time calling something a feel good story if the CEO says only 2 out of 5 stores are in very good condition.

I realize we're talking a lot about E Grocery, but we've, I mean it's very clear the store still matters, the footprint still matters.

And I like the honesty there.

I like that he's just putting it out there.

Like I have visited this many stores and two out of five are in very good condition because you have to be able to name it to fix it.

Yeah, I like it.

But there's obviously significant work to be done in a turnaround if your stores are in that situation.

So for it to be the feel good story about the turnaround, I think we'd have to see both E Grocery and the stores improving.

And right now it feels like the stores aren't there yet.

Yeah, I agree.

I think the E Commerce Headline, you know, I think it feels like a data point that gets, gets shared out when there's nothing else good to talk about.

That's kind of what I'm thinking about it when I think back to how, you know, how I read the tea leaves on earnings announcements but because I don't think it's really a feel good story at all.

I mean just based on the data we just went through exhaustively in the last headline, Jen, they're losing share like that, that's not keeping pace.

The 20, what 19, 20% growth, you know, that I come, that I, that I remarked on like that's losing share relative to the other, the other headline we talked about.

That's not good.

And the other point I'd make too, about the store side.

He's been in position.

I went back and looked, Jen, he's been, I'm curious what you think on this too.

He's been in position now for six months which is a decent amount of time in grocery because we're not talking about apparel here.

We've got nine month lead times and it's gonna take a while to readjust everything.

So you're already losing share in E Grocery.

Half the store base needs improvement self admittedly to his credit, can he really just flip the switch operationally and turn things around when Amazon and Walmart are gunning for them the way that they are?

I, I kind of actually think this is not a feel good story at all and it's kind of a warning story in terms of like this, this, this Kroger story could get a lot worse before it gets better.

But I don't know Jen, talk me off the ledge.

Don't jump Chris.

Meatballs don't jump.

Jen.

Eat the Swedish meatballs.

Hear you on that.

I, you know, it's awesome that they turn a profit, but with you bringing up the stats from the last headline.

Yeah.

Every single category from the last headline was improving 25 or more while they're boasting, you know, 19 and 20.

Right.

So to me that shows that they're not really keeping pace.

I don't know, like I don't know what he's done in the last six months.

Exactly.

I agree with you.

Six months is a good amount of time.

I would say 12 months is, is fair to judge a CEO on turnaround steps because sometimes it can take three to six months to even name it to fix it.

Right.

So per, I would only assume that if he's putting that stat out there about the stores, his number one priority is I'm going to go fix this and put a different, different stat out in six months.

Right.

So I don't think you should jump.

But I do agree with you that there are a couple of warning signs here that don't look so pretty.

Hopefully they're just bringing them to light so they can fix them.

Yeah, I'm looking over the edge of the bridge to see how high it is.

That's kind of where my head is on this one, Jen.

I'm not, I'm not sure either.

And from the people I talk to, people love him too.

People that have worked with him love him.

They think that he's the single best retail operator merchant they've ever seen.

And so, so I give him a lot of credit.

But, you know, hopefully, you know, hopefully he is, he's got a plan and he's going to execute on it.

And he's, it's funny because actually between when I put my thoughts together for this headline and you and I are recording this, I actually saw him out on social media talking about his, you know, I think his 5F plan to get Kroger where it needs to be.

So hopefully you can do it.

All right, let's welcome Rita onto today's show.

Joining us for today's five insightful minute segment is Rita Karbage.

Rita is the Chief Strategy officer at the Rolla Group, as I know many Omnitalk fans and listeners are already aware.

And she is here to talk with us about the current state and the evolving economics of online grocery and what it really takes to make the model work in the long term.

Rita, let's get you started off with this question.

Online grocery, I mean, I've heard it a lot.

It's been called structurally unprofitable for years now.

But what has actually changed of late and what still does need to change for the math to actually work?

Yeah, that label was real painful, but real.

We're talking about small baskets, manual store picking, inefficient last mile.

And that meant grocers were losing somewhere between five and ten dollars on every order.

Nobody was wants a business like that.

The operators really making it work today are the ones who have shifted to a full basket, really delivering a weekly shop at over $100 as an average basket.

And they've rebuilt their whole infrastructure around online.

So they've rebuilt compact, high throughput fulfillment centers with the right level of automation.

We're talking about 500 to 100,000 square ft that are close to where the customers are with concentrated demand and not these Oversized monuments that we saw in the early days.

These are really the winners who have changed this discipline and stopped promising everything everywhere for free to their customers and started to rebuild their networks around something that really works both for the customer promise and the unit economics.

So Rita, I'm curious because, you know, we've been seeing same day grocery delivery, particularly over here in the States.

I think it's even more so in Europe.

It's, it's quickly becoming the default grocery expectation.

And I can think back to in the, just in the past month alone, we've seen big announcements from Walmart and Amazon to that end.

And they're doing it by way of, quote unquote, the dark store concept, which is the fulfillment center that is, you know, close to the consumer locally, where the, where they know the demand is going to be.

And to me, you all at Valak and Roelik are the proof point that that model actually works.

So, so how do you, how do you think about that?

Is that a requirement, the dark store approach, Is that a requirement to making this model work in the long term to get to same day?

I'm a firm believer in same day.

For a long time people said customers don't necessarily care about same day, but they actually do and they want it as short as three hours or even 30 minutes these days in the U.S. it can be profitable.

As you said, you're thinking about density and demand.

So really building those sites very, very efficiently around where the customers are and automating everything from picking to labor management to how the route is distributed for the last mile.

And it can really work.

The promise itself isn't the problem, it's how you execute it.

Yeah.

And to get the efficiency of same day right, they don't need to be necessarily located in the store, which is where the industry at least over here was trying to go initially.

Because you guys don't have stores, you know, at the roll it group and you're doing it successfully.

Absolutely.

We have 12 different fulfillment centers.

We don't have any physical stores.

We've really built the model around online.

And this is where the grocers who win will do it.

It's about really building the model around delivery and not trying to repurpose your infrastructure from the store to deliver online.

So let's roll it back a little bit.

Let's talk about store based picking.

Does that model still make sense in certain instances?

And how do you decide when you need to go away from it and create a dedicated fulfillment center like we were just discussing?

I think there's still a case for store based picking.

When you're talking about an online penetration that's still slow.

When you have good store coverage, you have spare capacity in that store and you're promising next day delivery or delivery in 8, 10 hours.

We're using that store space and your staff and your stock can be really a low entry point to online.

You start to need more capacity when you're exceeding about 300 orders per day.

When you're hitting about 500, you have to start thinking about MFCs because what happens is your physical shoppers start to compete with your pickers and that's about experience for everyone.

The numbers start to really make sense when you go over 500 and that's when you can really improve your UPH.

You can really, really reduce your picking labor hours.

You can significantly improve your cost per order as well.

Rita, is it all about order volume too?

Or does the control of the customer journey also factor into when you think you need to kind of unplug from the third party platforms too?

The way that we've thought about it at Rolik Group is we've built everything around the customer proposition and this is what drives the service that we're creating at Veloc, right?

If we're promising the customer same day, we need to build an infrastructure that delivers on same day.

If you're a physical grocery store, you need to be thinking about the in store experience for your customer just as well as the online experience for those customers.

If you want to win in the future, those channels have to work side by side and not in silos.

You have to think about the entire customer journey because your omnichannel has to be, you know, one operating system and they can't compete.

The minute they start competing, you're losing the customer both in store and online.

All right, well, let's get you out of here on this then.

I'm curious, what do you think is going to define the winners in online grocery over the next decade?

Chris, Online grocery is not going away.

You know, by 2030 it's going to make up 30% of all grocery and that's not a small number.

So we need to really start thinking as omnichannel as one operating system and not three silos.

You know, shoppers are already mixing online within store.

So winners really have to think about that entire customer experience and and start optimizing for both.

Everyone's talking about AI these days, right?

We've talked about fulfillment centers and automation for years.

But what we need to think about right now is how all of those systems interact together.

So from demand planning to replenishment to labor planning to routing to robotic picking to price and promo optimization to the last mile and the routing, all of those have to play together so that you're delivering on your promise.

And if that promise is same day, then that's what you're optimizing for.

I think that the winners really will have made clear choices on how they use their stores, where they add dark stores, where they build an FC and what that looks like.

I think that's a great nugget to end on because you're saying there's the infrastructural question and then there's also the software side of this that is going to become even more important to make the model work.

And it all comes back to what you said at the throughout this discussion, which is you have to build the model that meets the demand not of just of your customer today, but of where your customer is going in the future.

So thank you so much, Rita.

That was excellent.

Thank you so much for having me.

Chris.

Number four is brought to you by Ocampo Capital.

Ocampo Capital is a venture capital firm founded by retail executives with the aim of helping early stage consumer businesses succeed through investment and operational support.

Learn more@ocampocapital.com all right, headline number four.

I can't wait to hear your thoughts on this, Chris.

Bed, Bath and Beyond has launched its legendary Coupon Hunt, a 21 day nationwide event running June 22 through July 13, inviting customers to dig out their old iconic blue 20 off coupons.

According to Retail Dive, customers can bring any old Bed, Bath and Beyond coupon to participating Bed, Bath and Beyond and the Container Store and Kirkland's Home locations nationwide.

And each coupon brought in serves as a sweepstakes entry for a grand prize of $100,000 everything home refresh using products from across the Bed, Bath and Beyond Inc. Family of brands.

Okay, so Chris, this is also the A and M put you on the spot question of the week.

So glad A and M chose you instead of me this time.

This is fun.

Yeah.

So here it is.

Do you see this coupon sweepstakes approach as a clever way to rebuild loyalty?

Or does it risk training customers to expect gimmicks instead of long term value?

Oh man, I don't know what this trains customers to expect because on the, on the gimmick scale, if, if I was to do a 1 to 10 gimmick scale, I'd give this like a 99 gen. That's how, that's how gimmicky I think this thing is.

This is the most gimmicky promotion I think I've, I've can remember in quite some time.

And aren't there only like, aren't there only like 22 bed, bath and beyond stores that are even open like that carry the Bed, Bath and Beyond name?

So like, I don't even understand how this makes any hay whatsoever to begin with.

And, and your hook is bringing in old expired coupons.

I mean, I don't know about you, Jen, but I don't even miss Bed, Bath and Beyond and I definitely don't miss the coupons in my drunk drawer.

Maybe some people do, but I think they're just doing this because they can.

And I hope they're not resting on their laurels that this is gonna, or putting any big hopes on this because, because I just don't think it's gonna drive anything either.

And which I'm guessing it's, I'm guessing they're not putting anything big into it because if the grand prize is a hundred thousand dollar home refresh, it feels like they're hedging their bets already in terms of the number of coupons that they, they think or are estimating they're gonna get back.

You know, like they're, they're, they're kind of dipping their toe into this gimmicky promotion in and of itself too.

But I don't know, Jen, do you agree with me or are you like, oh yeah, I've already gone through the, I've already gone through the junk.

Jordan pulled them all out and I'm heading there this weekend.

Chris, like, what's your take?

I could not agree with you more, Chris.

I think this is just a ploy for a little bit of buzz and attention, but I can't see a whole volume of people digging out old coupons to a store that they thought was shut down and never coming back again.

Some people might have them.

Those are the loyalists.

But I would guess those loyalists already know about the.

Maybe you say 22 stores that are still out there and they're still somehow shopping the brand.

It reminds me of this, this crazy story I heard about this fourth of July.

Jeep is offering a very gimmicky thing where if the US Wins the World Cup, I believe it is, if the US Wins and your name is George Washington and you submit a entry, you're one of the first hundred George Washingtons to submit an entry, then you get like a free Jeep Wrangler or something.

But I was laughing so hard as I heard it because I was like, how many George Washington's are there?

And this is so interesting, but it's one of those things where like it might create a headline.

We're here talking about it.

There's some buzz, but I, I can't imagine that it's going to drum up real business for them.

No.

Well, the Bed, Bath and Beyond coupon thing was the most gimmicky headline until I heard about the Jeep George Washington giveaway.

That's crazy.

Yeah, George Washington.

So if anyone's listening and your name's George Washington, please look it up.

Yeah.

Or if you really need a Jeep, go and change your name and hope for the best with the World cup soccer team for the US and their hopes.

Who knows?

You never know.

Stranger things have happened.

All right, Jen, let's get to the last headline, headline number five.

And headline number five is brought to you by Valak.

Valak is a proven e grocery technology built by grocers for grocers.

Exactly the type of technology we like here at Omnitalk.

They unite proprietary software with right size automation to make same day delivery profitable.

Learn more visit volock.com that's v e l o q.com and I also just went and and visited and got an inside tour of their Austrian operation and it's pretty impressive.

So I said go to Sweden.

You can also go to Austria.

Everybody too.

If you're interested to learn more, just let me know.

All right, headline number five.

Target is named fashion icon Isaac Mizrahi as its first ever creative director at large.

A brand new role in which Mizrahi will advise on product design, mentor Target designers and help the retailer reclaim its cheap, chic identity.

According to Target's corporate press release, Mizrahi will serve as a creative advisor across key product and design milestones, including new product concepts, design innovation and emerging trends, working alongside Jenna Fox, Target's senior VP of design.

This summer, Target will also launch a new mentorship program giving select designers from established leaders to emerging creatives direct access to Mizrahi through one on one sessions, immersion experiences, inspiration trips and design workshops.

Jen, does the return of Isaac Mizrahi to Target excite you?

It didn't come out of this headline like, oh, I cannot wait to see what Target comes up with.

I do think it's interesting.

I think it's, you know, if Mizrahi is here as a creative director and a sort of support system for, I think you Said Jenna Fox.

Right.

And any other designers there, I would be curious what their thought is on it.

Is it more like, oh, we must really need help because now he's stepping in to help out, or are they excited about it?

Like, wow, this is going to be fantastic.

We need this type of, you know, fresh ideas and someone to bounce ideas off of.

I'm not.

I'm not sure.

I'm not really convinced that lack of creative design was the biggest issue for Target today.

So I don't think this could hurt.

But when you say, does it excite me?

Like, is this where Target really needs to be headed?

I would say probably not.

I think their biggest opportunity is service in the stores.

I think they've lost that sort of red shirt service that they used to be known for.

But staying ahead of the curve creatively can't hurt.

I guess that's my thoughts.

I'm really interested on your thoughts because you have more Target history and context to go from here.

Yeah, I agree with you.

I don't think this is the biggest issue.

I think the biggest issue is operations and great merchandising, you know, both in store and online.

You know, the product design, I think, has always been in the ethos of Target, and if they lost that in the short amount of time, that really says something, which is why I don't.

This, this, this headline doesn't inspire me at all.

It doesn't wet my.

My whistle one bit, Jen.

I think, you know, in fact, I think a lot of what I discussed in the headline actually seems silly.

Like the whole tutelage thing.

I mean, like we just said, you have a history of great design in your organization and you need tutelage.

I mean, come on.

Come on.

That's just bogus to me, and I'm going deep on the press releases this week.

But, like, that's just something you say to beef up the press release to make it sound cooler than it is if you step back from it.

So all the designers are taking trend trips anyway, so that part just doesn't make sense to me.

But the thing I really don't like about it, Jen, the reason it doesn't excite me at all.

And I'm gonna share an anecdote on this one.

I remember back when Target did the Missoni partnership.

I'm sure you remember that too.

It was a big deal, right?

Blew out in minutes.

Like, the supply and the stock was gone in just seconds.

And there was talk of doing again.

And I remember the CEO Greg Steinhoff at the time said you know, I asked the then cmo, Michael Francis, he said.

I asked him, like, should we do it again?

And Michael Francis told him.

I don't remember exactly what he said, but he said something like, no, you'll never do this again.

And he said, why not?

And he said, because you can't go to the well again.

It's just not.

It's not cool.

You can't.

Our job as Target is to continually push the envelope and re up ourselves.

And so going back to the well on Isaac Mizrahi, who was last in your assortment in the late 2000 oughts, that's the opposite of that to me.

And so it's.

To me, it's almost lazy.

And it also potentially gives, you know, too much control to one person, the way this is described, too.

So I don't like it for that reason, too.

But the biggest reason I don't like it is it doesn't it.

We just said it at the outset.

You got to merchandise, and so you got to do better.

You got to try harder.

You got to push the envelope harder than going back to the retread idea.

That worked once.

And how well it worked is still a big question to me too.

You sort of have that Target background and history more so than I do.

I'm not against this.

I just don't.

I don't know how many eggs they're putting in this basket.

I guess I hope that the eggs are going in the other baskets, and this is just sort of a fun headline that they can share.

Yeah.

But, you know, like we always talk about on this show, you're 10,000 people.

Right.

And so, like, was.

Would.

Would the new Isaac Mizrahi assortment get you into Target again?

Would you get excited to go see it?

No.

No.

There you go.

But also, he's creative director over all of the categories.

Am I right?

So it's not like an assort.

It's not like just apparel.

And he's coming out with a line or just home goods, and he's coming out with a line.

I mean, I think there are some great lines at Target today.

I think some of their home stuff is.

Is amazing.

I think they have a few clothing lines that are fantastic.

Um, so.

So, no, I don't exactly know, like, how they would even roll that out, because it's, you know, it's just that he's responsible for all of it.

He's helping everyone with the role.

Right.

Where's it going to begin and end?

Right.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

How are you actually even going to feel the zhuzh, so to speak, relative to how you already felt the zhuzh.

Right.

And it's an expensive zhuzh, I gotta imagine as well, when you bring somebody like that in, too, again, against your previous overhead to do what you said you thought they were doing fairly well.

All right, well, let's go to the lightning round.

Jen.

Alan Greenspan sadly passed away at the fine age of 100 years old.

God, I wish we could all live to be that old this past week.

Jen, who is your favorite economist of all time?

I've never asked anyone this question.

Who is your favorite economist of all time?

You're always asking me these very good questions, Chris.

I don't know that I have a favorite economist, per se.

Not sure that that will shock you, but I guess I'm going to answer with, his name is Nate Kornaki, I think is the way you pronounce it.

He's more of an analyst, but he's the guy that, like, on election night, he's watching polls.

Yeah, but he also, he does sports.

Like, they'll bring him on SportsCenter and they'll do the same thing for, I don't know, playoffs or something.

So I like him.

I like his energy, and I just like anything he says.

I'm very into it.

So I'm going to.

He's not an economist, but that's my answer.

He's.

He wears the khakis and he gets really excited about the dad.

Rolls up his sleeves, right?

He always says his sleeves rolled up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know who you're talking about.

I know he's talking about.

Yeah, for sure.

Fun.

So can I say him?

Because I don't have an economist.

Yeah, for sure.

He's like a dorky guy with glasses, rolled up sleeves.

Yeah, I know who you're talking about.

Yeah, he's fine.

You could.

You can.

You can.

You can.

You can.

You can claim him as an economist.

There's no right answers here, Jen.

It's a lightning round, so I'm going to ask you what I think is a much easier question.

We are right in the middle of Amazon Prime Days.

Do you participate in the prime Day frenzy?

And if so, are you holding anything in your cart at the moment?

Oh, man, I, you know, I'm not a big Prime Day guy because I'm not that big.

I'm not a big, like, consumptive spender.

Like, I don't.

I don't buy myself or my family that much stuff.

Just, you know, randomly on deals.

And.

And I've also Been in Europe, so I'm not even plugged into it this year.

Like, I actually forgot until, like, this morning that it was even happening, which just tells you how.

How immersed I've been in European retail for the past three weeks.

But.

But it did give me an idea for October, which I'm going to talk to producer Ella about when we get done with this show, because I. I got some ideas percolating for.

For the Omnitok fans.

But what about you?

I take.

I take it you've got.

I take it you've got.

You've got something.

You got your eye on, something that's in your cart for Prime Day?

No, no, I don't.

Sometimes on Prime Day, I'll pop in and just browse, but I'm not.

My spending habits are not.

I don't do a ton of research.

And so if I, like, wanted something, needed something, I probably wouldn't even think to say, oh, I heard it might go on discount on Prime Day.

So I'm not really a Prime Day girl, but, man, there are a lot of people that, they know all the deals and they're in their carts.

I might look in the next day or so if I have time for a few things for camping.

So we go up north a lot in the summer and I feel like I need deals if I'm going to buy things for camping.

Right.

Like those.

It's our second home as such, but it's on wheels.

Right, right.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

So I'm not a huge Prime Day girl.

All right, all right, next one.

Jersey Mike's recently overtook Chick Fil A as Florida's favorite fast food chain.

Jen, I know how big of a fan you are of fast food.

Do you agree with the surveyed Floridians?

I should tell my kids that you think I'm a big fan of fast food.

They're like, mom never stops.

But yes and yes.

Because I love Jersey Mike's.

We're big Jersey Mike's family over here.

We get the.

The giant subs and we cut them into like three or four and we just share a bunch of them for dinner on a lazy night where we don't feel like cooking.

And Chick Fil A, I know everybody loves it.

I love their service as well.

But I've never been as wowed as most people with Chick Fil A to begin with.

So I am definitely, definitely agreeing with the Floridians on this one.

All right, you heard it here first, folks.

What about you?

Do you like Jersey Mike's or Chick.

Fil A. I do like Jersey Mike's.

I.

The.

The giant subs are just like too big for one person.

Like, I could never eat that by myself.

But, like, I've tried and failed.

But.

But, yeah, no, but I think it's.

It's a.

It's a close.

It's a.

It's a two horse race.

It's close.

Like, I think it depends on the day for me, Jen.

It depends on my mood.

I could go either way.

I don't think I could ever say one is in the lead versus the other, you know?

Okay.

Better than Taco bell for you.

100%.

Better than Taco Bell for me, Jen.

100%.

Right, the last question here for you.

So next week we're headed into the fourth of July weekend.

I know the grocery stores are all stocked up on their hot dogs and their buns and all things condiments.

Right.

In honor of our independence and the country's history, do you have a favorite US President or historical figure?

Oh, my God.

That's a really tough question to answer given the fact that probably all my answers have been canceled by the culture at some point in time, you know, without even knowing.

Historical.

Historical.

Historical.

Right.

Yeah.

So I think my favorite residential historical figure would be.

I think I got to go with Andrew Jackson.

You know, he's on the $20 bill, but really, because he's got the best nickname, Old Hickory.

Old Hickory is a baller nickname.

I'd be lucky to have a nickname like that.

I've never had a nickname, Jen.

I'm kind of jealous of.

Of any nicknames.

And yet here's a guy that's Old Hickory.

That's just.

That's just awesome.

I love that.

All right, well, today's podcast was produced with the help and support, as it always is, of Ella sirjord.

Ella, come on in here.

Which headline won the week for you?

Which headline discussion or just topic in general won the week for you?

Yeah, I mean, the most relatable headline for me right now is E Grocery.

And Chris, we've talked about this a lot, but I found myself using pickup almost every time for my groceries.

And I can imagine delivery is next.

I haven't quite gotten there, but I agree with you, Jen.

Time is money.

I save so much much money.

It saves me energy and also building it into my schedule.

Like saying, hey, I'm gonna pick up at 4pm it makes my week so much more seamless.

And Chris, I have to shout out your LinkedIn video with Vlock and seeing the behind the scenes the future of grocery is almost scary.

Like, I sent it to my entire family and I said, you guys need to look, look, look at this.

There are robots picking up groceries in Europe.

Is it coming to us?

I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, no, I forgot.

I forgot we had that conversation yesterday.

You and I spent like 10 or 15 minutes after, after we put that video out, just talking about, like, you know, hey, yeah, maybe I need to try grocery delivery, you know, more so, I mean, you're already getting your Starbucks delivered like we talked about, but maybe you need to try it.

Sounds like.

Jen, what percentage of your grocery.

Grocery buying is actually done online now?

Easily.

80 Plus.

80 Plus.

Wow.

Yes.

I'm a very, like, routine girl over here, you know, keeping the family and the business and everything.

Rol, I have a couple of grocers that I do online orders for every week.

I don't just do one.

I have different things I like at different.

And then I would say we make one stop a week for specific things or if one of us has time.

But honestly, it's always dependent on time.

Like the delivery is clutch for busy parents.

Busy.

Everybody's right.

And Ella, you have to give it a shot because I don't like that with pickup, I have to schedule it in.

It's like, oh, I have to be there at 4.

Well, guess what?

I have to drop a kid off in Byron center at 6:30.

And then I have, you know, I don't want to have to be anywhere.

I like it when they deliver it while I'm in a meeting.

And then we just have to bring it into the fridge.

Yeah.

What's your most used app?

Mine is Aldi.

I use Instacart for two of the grocers that, that we order from regularly.

And then we go directly.

We're in Michigan, so we go directly to the Meijer app.

App for the loyalty.

Because you do get your loyalty and such when you deliver straight from them.

This is so great.

God, I'm like a kid in a candy store listening to YouTube talks.

This is so great.

Ella, just so you know, Instacart delivers Aldi, right?

So I deliver Instacart and Costco via.

I'm sorry, Aldi and Costco via Instacart.

Okay.

Because the one thing with Aldi's pickup is you have to pay a fee.

But I like it because it's not as busy as Walmart.

Yeah.

And we have special things we like at all the retailers.

So I'll give you like, some lists and things you can Try.

Okay, great.

Thank you.

We're all in.

Chris, what is yours?

I'm curious.

Are you still in store shopping?

Most of the time?

Yeah.

I'm.

I'm more of a.

Because I got.

I got grocery stores that are really, really close to my house, like within like a quarter mile.

Okay.

So for me, I'm like more buying in, in the moment, more so than, than anything.

So, like, I try not.

I try not to pantry load.

I try really hard not to pantry load and just go out and get the groceries when I need the groceries.

So.

So for me, it's more about stopping in real quick.

But I shop like I'm on a mission.

Like, I'm never like going down the aisles browsing.

I'm never like, caught by something new.

You know, I just.

I know what I'm going in.

I'm going in and I'm going to get it.

You have kids home for the summer, right?

Like, you don't pantry load?

I have to pantry load like no other for these darn kids while they're snacking.

I shouldn't say that.

I pantry load.

I go in and pantry load for what I want.

So, like, I guess I do, like, I'll go in and, you know, buy the uncrustables, buy the frozen waffles, all that stuff.

But like, I keep it.

I keep it pretty sparingly, like just for the breakfast and the lunches and the dinners.

I try to do more on demand, depending on, you know, I got two boys, they're finicky as hell, and I hope they're listening and change their ways at some point.

But, you know, like, so, like, for them it's like, you know, what do you guys want?

I don't.

It can never get the two of them to agree either.

So it's always kind of an in the moment decision and I run out and get whatever it is that's.

That's needed, Jen, European of you, like, it's more traditional there to grab the groceries you need for that day.

More of a walking culture.

You can do that.

Yep.

Yep.

No.

100%.

Yeah.

That.

That is a great way to describe me and my lifestyle, actually.

That's what I aspire to.

So thank you for that.

I'll take that as a compliment, Jen.

Yes.

On that note, happy birthday today to Aaron Moriarty, Mindy Cowling, and to the woman my friend Jordan Burke once met on the sideline of his child's soccer game and never fails to remind me about it.

The wonderful Minka Kelly.

Thanks, Jordan, for always remembering to twist the knife in my chest so deep.

And remember, if you could only read or listen to one retail blog in the business, make it on me Talk.

Our Fast5 podcast is the quickest, fastest rundown of all the week's top news and our daily newsletter tells you everything you need to know each day.

Stay on top of your game as a retail executive and also regularly feature special content that is exclusive to us and that we take a lot of pride in doing just for you.

And it's called the Retail Daily Minute.

Thanks as always for listening in.

Please remember to like and leave us a review wherever you happen to listen to your podcast or on YouTube.

You can follow us today by simply going to YouTube.

Jen, if people want to get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that?

You can find me on LinkedIn.

Jenn Hahn J E N N J H N Or you can find us at our website, www.jrecruitingservices.com yes.

Yes.

And Jen, thank you so much for joining us as co hosts for this week's Fast five podcast.

And thanks as always for being our resident talent expert.

So we always love having you and the expertise that you provide and all the specific people and human related questions.

So until next week, on behalf of all of us at Omnitok Retail, as always, be careful out there.