Kroger’s Sunk Cost Trap, Ulta’s Mirakl & Why Klarna’s Walmart Deal Is ‘One’ For The Ages

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Today is March 19, 2025.

I'm your host Ann Bazinga.

And I'm Chris Walton and we are.

Here once again to discuss all the top headlines from the past week making waves in the world of omnichannel retailing.

Chris Things are just rare.

Rearing to go, Rearing to go.

Rearing to go.

In raring to go.

Raring to go.

Yeah, that sounds very Irish coming off St.

Patrick's Day.

My.

I know Irish ex used to say that all the time.

We're raring to go, Chris.

Raring to go.

What are you rare to go for, Ed?

Because it's Shop Talk next week.

Already it's upon us.

It's coming.

And tomorrow I want to make sure that everybody listening knows we have a special LinkedIn Live event tomorrow at 11am Central, 12pm Eastern.

We are going to bring you exclusive interviews with some of the top retail technology providers that you must see at Shop Talk next week.

Are you getting excited for that, Chris?

Oh, heck yeah, I am.

And I mean, and one of them is actually featured in one of this week's headlines, too, so I can't wait to talk about that.

But, yeah, no, we got a whole host of great companies we're planning to preview.

But you know what else I'm excited about?

And because I want to give them some props here before we get started, this is definitely the year the robot, you know, Kroger, you know, number one grocer in America, is piloting robotics in their stores with our friends at Simbi.

That's.

That's huge news.

So that was our sponsor for getting that to roll out.

That's awesome.

Yes.

Big time.

Big time.

I'm really excited to kind of stick by them and find out how things are going.

You think we'll get the inside scoop somehow?

Oh, I.

I think so.

And I think you and I are dialed in on.

On the.

On all things robotics.

But, you know, I'm taking.

I'm taking a victory lap for the year the robot, too.

And I may not be the retail profit Doug Stevens, but I think I've definitely got the core.

I think I've courted the market on the Omnichannel Oracle, and what do you think?

Oh, yeah, I do, but people are ditching Omni Channel, Chris, So that's.

It's got a short lifespan.

You're going to have to come up with something a little more the Unified Commerce Unicorn.

Should I be that?

Shout out to my friend Ben Miller.

He'll appreciate that joke, but.

All right, Ed.

Well, should we do this week's headlines?

Yeah, let's get to it.

All right.

Awesome.

Today's headlines are brought to you by Commerce Next.

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All right, in today's Fast 5.

And we've got news on, as I mentioned before, Ulta Beauty launching a new digital marketplace.

Wayfair opening its second large format store in Atlanta, Klarna becoming Walmart's exclusive buy now, pay later partner and Marc Lorre's startup Wonder once again going on an acquisition spree, this time acquiring Tastemade for a cool $90 million.

But we begin today with rather interesting news out of Kroger on the other side of things.

And yes, let's go on to headline number one, Chris Kroger is launching a standalone e commerce business unit.

You heard it right.

According to Grocery Dive, Kroger has formed a business unit centered on its online operations and promoted its chief information officer to head the new team, the supermarket chain announced.

The group brings together the personnel, quote, contributing to every aspect of the online customer experience, end quote For Kroger.

Yael Cosset, who previously served as the company's chief digital officer before becoming senior vice president and CIO of Kroger in 2019, will lead the e commerce unit as executive vice president and chief digital officer.

Kroger Chairman and newly appointed CEO Ron Sergeant said in a statement, quote, accelerating Kroger's e commerce growth is a top priority.

As the architect of Kroger's digital strategy, Yale will continue to make it easier for customers to shop our fresh, affordable food, end quote.

Chris, I got a two parter double header for you.

Two parter Number one, do you agree with Kroger's decision to create a standalone e commerce unit?

And number two, you're getting the A and M put you on the spot question, which is it seems like this formal organization of Kroger's e comm business is long overdue, especially with the ocado struggles.

What do you think this says?

That they put their chief information officer atop it versus an operational leader?

Please.

All right, Dazzle, nice delivery on that one too.

And to get this show started off right.

All right, man, I'm going to come out hot on this one.

And I think my Buddy Carl on LinkedIn who messaged me about this story, you know I have two friends named Carl on, you know that with K's too, which is just random Carl.

But, but anyway, I'm coming out hot.

I'M coming out of the gates hot on this one.

And first off, I, I don't like this move at all.

And secondly, to get to the A and M question, I don't agree.

I don't agree that the premise of this move is long overdue.

I don't agree with the premise that this move is long overdue either.

Really.

Okay, Yeah, I do, 100%.

I say that for a couple of reasons.

So, one, this flies in the face of whatever you want to call it, good omnichannel, unified commerce, whatever the heck the buzzword is, harmonized retailing, shout out to Steve Dennis.

It flies in the face of that.

It just does.

As you know.

And this is coming from someone who piloted an omnichannel organization structure at Target to help them develop their omnichannel approach, an approach that others sense like Walmart have adopted.

So I can tell you firsthand, this is really the only way to go.

Because doing it, doing it the opposite way with a standalone division creates all kinds of disjointed problems in the organization.

So just.

And priorities.

Yeah, yes, Right, priorities.

Everything like, yes, focus.

You start getting turf battles, everything.

So strategically, I just fundamentally disagree with the organizational approach.

But second, I think there's another big issue here and that it's that I worry that Kroger is falling into what I call what what many would call the sunk cost trap.

They made the big Ocado investment.

They don't appear to have gotten the return that they wanted.

So now they're throwing good money after bad and good people after bad.

So it's a classic case from the first year of business school of what not to do because you're doubling down on trying to fix the mistakes of your past.

Which also explains why they're putting someone that they trust with a good track record to try to fix it.

But to A M's question, how much.

How much can a digital guy fix what is essentially a piece, that being okado of a much larger puzzle for how Kroger gives its consumers what they want.

So this move, you know, net.

Net.

Particularly in the absence of a former CEO or the absence, there's, you know, they just had to get rid of their CEO so they have to see some guy in place.

Right.

It seems like, I mean, this seems like it could be the start of a dumpster fire, to be honest.

I just don't get this at all.

And.

But I don't know.

What do you think?

Talk me off the leg?

No, I think this is a really dubious.

I'm not going to talk you off the ledge today, Chris.

No, because you're not going to be my balance.

No, because this, to me, felt like a move that you would make in 1999.

Like, the, the real problem for me in this, in this whole story is every aspect of the online customer experience.

Like, yeah, that's the problem here.

It should.

I don't think we can think in channels like this anymore.

I mean, that's the whole point of this move towards unified commerce.

Like, people aren't just doing.

No, no.

Consumer of Kroger is just shopping online or just shopping in store.

It's about the total experience.

And the success of any of these grocery businesses depends on a strategy that's focused on, you know, meeting the customer at all these touch points.

So I think it's.

It just seems strange.

The other thing that I would add is Yale has been in this role at Kroger.

He's done a tremendous job, but look at all the stuff that he has underneath him, too.

Oh, go ahead.

No, no, you keep going.

No, you got.

No, I'm right with you.

You keep going.

Yeah, like, he's in charge of Retail Media, 8451 Insights and Content, Financial services, personal finance.

Like, how I get that you have to ladder up and there's people that are underneath him.

But again, this just seems like way too many competing priorities.

And especially when you throw things like retail media and like, insights and content and financial services into the mix.

Like, those are huge sources of revenue for Kroger and for any future that Kroger has.

And so I feel like this is, this is just asking too much of one person.

And in a way that just exactly like you said, Chris, like, there's too many competing interests, priorities.

And I don't know how you set Yale up here for success, but it just, it seems like the.

The totally wrong way to be thinking about it.

And especially given, you know, coming out of all the news that's happened at Kroger with the CEO leaving the failed merger with Albertsons, like, it just feels like a place where they're.

They're just like putting all their faith in Yale and not setting them up for success.

Yeah.

And what I was going to say, what you got me thinking about too, is like, I actually, there's a little bit from this story that actually makes me question how well Yale is actually done in his job, too.

Because if you think about, if you think about meeting the needs of the omnichannel consumer.

Right.

There's the front end side of it.

And there's the back end side of it, the back inside of it clearly hasn't been working.

But you're saddled with a big investment that you made where the infrastructure is the infrastructure.

So there's only so much you can do about that.

So then you get, then you start to say to yourself, okay, was it not working because they haven't marketed right or they don't have the experience right.

To, to get the volume they need to make the investment pay off in the way that they want?

So, so it's one of those, you know, it's one of those two things.

And so like if it's the, if it's the latter, then you're like, well, wait a second, is this the guy, the right guy to run it?

If they haven't been able to figure out the marketing and the front end experience of this, to make it work and to get it in the consumer because they've tried these online only plays in markets and they've had to shut those down.

They've had to close facilities.

So for some reason they're not getting, even though they're talking about how much their digital volume is growing, it's not growing to the extent that they actually want to make this a cardo investment pay off in the way that they want in the right areas of the country.

So, so there's just so much going on here, which makes this story so bizarre to me.

Yeah, I totally agree.

Yeah, I mean, oh, good luck to you, Kroger team.

I don't know what else to say at this point.

Yeah, it sounds like, I mean, God, they got to get somebody in there quick now because this could just blow up in their face here over time.

All right, headline number two.

Ulta Beauty is launching a third party marketplace.

According to Chainstorage, on a dedicated page of its e commerce site, Ulta Beauty announced that Ulta Beauty Marketplace is scheduled to open in the fall of 2025.

The retailer said that the marketplace will be a curated platform offering.

Is any marketplace ever not curated, by the way?

And a curated platform on.

I think it's a dig towards Walmart.

I think people just say curated platform.

Walmart and Amaz because they're just like Walmart and Amazon will let anybody on the platform.

So that's what I get take from that side.

I think it's a merchant thing too, honestly, too.

I think it's both.

And they kind of cut from the same cloth too.

But the platform will offer a quote cutting, will offer quote, cutting edge tools and Powerful tech end quote, as well as dedicated support from a Marketplace team.

Ulta is accepting applications via a digital form on its site and said more information is coming soon.

Ulta Beauty Marketplace also runs on a platform from digital marketplace technology provider Miracle, a longtime sponsor of this podcast, I might add.

And what do you think is propelling Ulta to jump on the Marketplace bandwagon?

Like so many others, this is such.

A smart move because for the first time as an Ulta customer, it allows me to access all of the makeup and health and beauty and wellness products that I want in one spot.

There's still, you know, it's, it's just like the grow.

It's very analogous to grocery.

Like, I can't get all my groceries at Kroger or at Walmart.

I still make a stop at Trader Joe's or Sprouts or these other places.

And that's still very much the case when it comes to beauty.

And so what I love about this is that it allows me now to, you know, get the, the, like, luxury cosmetics brands that I shop at Ulta for, but then it also gives me access to all of these D2C brands.

It also gives me access potentially to drug brand brands, too.

And I can use my Ulta loyalty points on this stuff.

Like it's taking and making the best possible shopping experience for me.

Not to mention there's all the money they can make from retail media from all of these new brands that they're bringing on their platform.

And finally, I think the beauty of this is that never before has a retailer in this category been able to see some of the adjacencies that are happening with their brand, that with products that are outside their four walls.

Like, Ulta knows that I buy this moisturizer and this foundation and this concealer.

But they haven't been able to see, like, what products am I shopping for in drug.

What products am I shopping for online with, like a specialty retailer?

And so I think this is just creating a flywheel for Ulta that will just propel them into the future.

And I, I absolutely love it.

But, Chris, I'm not the merchant of the group.

So tell me what your thoughts are.

Like, what are there complexities to this that I'm not thinking about when it comes to, like the curated marketplace?

No, I think you nailed, I think, I mean, I thought you, I thought you nailed it.

I think you know what you're essentially getting at.

And I was going to bring this up later, but you actually made me think about it now.

I was going to bring it up in the fifth headline.

But, you know, I go back to the podcast we did with Claire Cherry on Investor perspectives in retail, and if you haven't listened to that, folks, it's a really great one.

And she changed my thinking about many of the trends that are happening, or at least opened my eyes to them.

And, you know, I think what you're getting at here is there's so much activity on social media, so many startup brands on kind of the hell, the kind of the food or beauty products as medicine kind of trend like to.

For healthy, live, healthier living.

Right?

Yeah.

So as a.

As Ulta, there's no way that you can keep up on those.

And there's no way also you don't want to invest in them on a national nationwide store rollout either.

It's just silly.

So you.

But you want to give your customer access to those, and that's essentially what they're doing here.

So I don't know.

And I come back to it.

So the other point that I make, too, is we've talked about this being the year of the robot.

My God, it's also the year of the marketplace.

I mean, in the last three months, since the start of 2025, we've got best Buy, Janie and Jack, now Ulta.

And for me, I mean, ultimately, to me, I think the rationale for a marketplace is so simple for the reason, and it goes to what you were just saying, but they're much easier to do than they ever were before, you know, and hence, because of companies like Miracle, they just make standing them up much, much easier.

Right.

Two, as a retailer, to your point, you don't own the inventory, so you can give your customers more options, which digital, as we've said a thousand times, and you hit on this too, is about personalization and options, and therefore, you get high added margin from doing this.

And then third, which is the point we haven't really talked about yet, third is retail media.

Like Ulta's, growth is slowing.

So it wants sales and retail media to be the bump to help juice its performance, clear and simple.

And I think every retailer is starting to see that.

And that's why you're seeing this growth.

And that's why, I mean, honestly, 2025, man, it's explosive on the marketplace front.

Yeah.

Yeah, I.

I am very, very happy with this.

And you're pumped about this?

I am.

Well, I just.

I think that the loyalty angle is so smart, too.

Like, I think this is the category where loyalty really, really matters.

And the points that you get.

Like my, my purchasing decisions in the locations that I'm choosing to purchase from are driven by my loyalty points that are associated with, you know, with Ulta.

So I'm making choices about that.

And now that I have so much more to choose from from the online marketplace and being able to get all those brands in one spot, I think is, is another thing that you can't discount here with the, with the marketplace standing up.

And to your point before too, like, if I know that, if I know.

And so like, for example, if I know you're buying a beauty product, like I imagine there's some correlation there with what food you want to buy.

So the CPGs are going to probably want to advertise on this platform from a retail media perspective.

So, so I mean it just, it just gives so many angles to scale, you know, the retail media play as well.

It's fascinating.

Yeah, high frequency, it's like, it makes so much sense especially coming out of grocery, like this is the next high frequency place that you're purchasing over and over and over again.

And so the data is, you know, almost as valuable now as grocery store data.

It's like one of the second categories that people, after that, that people are shopping again and again and again.

So.

All right, well, let's move on to headline number three.

Wayfair plans to open 150,000 square foot store in Atlanta in 2026 according to chain Storage.

Yet again, the online home furnishings giant will open its second large format store at the District at Howell Mill shopping center in Atlanta.

Set to open in 2026, the 150,000 square foot space will offer an immersive one stop shopping destination for all things home.

The Atlanta store will mark Wayfair's second large format location.

The first one of course opening in May of 2024 at Eden's Plaza in Wilmat, Illinois.

And the Wilmette store has reportedly delivered outstanding results contributing to sales from the state of Illinois growing more than 15% faster than the US overall from the store launch through the end of 2024, Wayfair said.

Chris, on a scale of one to 10, how much do you like the idea of Wayfair expanding to yet another large format store for footprint?

Oh, and I'm, can I say 11?

I think, I don't, I don't know if there's a number above 11 actually, you know, I don't know.

Spinal Tap, I mean, tapped us out at 11, but I think I would.

Say 11 is appropriate.

Sure, sure.

But tell us why and, you know, and, you know, I mean, you know this better than anybody probably on a.

On a degree that I probably won't even share on this podcast.

But, you know, I've got a little.

There's a little Walton Wayfair history going back here.

So after we finished up our store, the future.

Yeah, after we finished up our store, the future work.

This is back in 2017, so eight years ago, I met with Wayfair CEO Nerd Shine and.

And talked to him about heading up his physical store efforts.

And at the time, I'll never forget it, I was very bullish on them going after Ikea directly with a larger format store because of their.

Their distribution network and their expansive aesthetics that they could offer their consumer relative to ikea.

And he thought I.

He thought I was nuts.

Like, he thought I was crazy.

He literally laughed when I told him.

Was it from that idea or just you and your personality?

No, I.

It was that idea.

It's like he was.

He's basically like, no way.

Well, now he's like, no, no, we're gonna go small.

We're gonna go small and we're gonna experiment.

I'm like, fine, you can do that, but it's not gonna work.

And here we are eight years later, and the idea appears to be working.

People are.

Here's the other thing.

I asked Placer AI to pull some data for me on this.

People are lingering in this store longer.

They're lingering in the store on average, 50 minutes compared to an average home furnishing experience of 40 minutes.

And it appears to be driving sales in Illinois, as you mentioned.

And so why.

And why was this the right way to go?

Because furniture shopping.

I've said this a thousand times on the show, and I think you're finally coming around to it, because I know we've had some debate on this, but it's a big fricking chore that's built around the big moments in your life.

And Wayfair has a ton of breadth and variety that it can offer to help people get this chore done.

So keep in mind, here's the other point.

Wayfair sales base.

I hadn't thought about this in a while.

Wayfair sales base is $12 billion.

A 15% uplift from the right store concept on that base only adds to that.

And so, quite honestly, 15% feels low actually, too, when you think about physical versus digital commerce, you know, in the long run.

So, Net.

Net.

I love it.

And I would say my one final closing thought, because I got to get the dig into is I'd say to my buddy Nerd, why the heck did it take you so long?

Like why.

Why are we, why are we see.

Why are we waiting here eight years to see this when the idea was there beforehand?

But anyway, maybe because they had it.

They had the same curse that everybody has been in where they thought that their independent owned brands meant more to people than they really do too.

I mean that was the thing you.

They went into those all modern and like small format stores thinking that people would recognize those Wayfair brands but.

Or not, I don't know.

But I think it was more than that.

I think it was more like they're very left brain organization, very E commerce centric.

They just want to dip their toe and experiment in.

Whereas at the end of the day to have a physical concept that works, you have to have a point of view.

You have to have a reason why you can't just experiment piecemeal.

You've got to come up with the whole concept.

Sounds like they've done that, they're refining it.

I can't wait to see it.

You've seen it in Chicago.

So I mean, what's your take here?

I listen, I think that the most important thing here, which is kind of again like just a no duh analysis, is that this fills a very important white space in the furniture market where if you are a person shopping for well designed furniture right now it's either Ikea, where you're getting cheap stuff that's not going to last a long time but looks good, or you're going in the opposite direction and you have, you know, West Elm Ashley Furniture Restoration Hardware or you have to go to Marketplace really right now like to get used versions of the high quality stuff.

There's nowhere that you can go with confidence.

Like there's still a lot of people who will not buy a couch on Wayfair.

Like they just don't want it.

They're not going to.

It's still a price point that's high enough to not give them the confidence and the hassle really like the convenience is the second part.

Like not only is this stuff like assembled in most cases like or.

Or you just have to screw like legs on.

If you're thinking about like a couch from Wayfair versus the IKEA alternative of spending the whole afternoon like no, no, no, no.

This is serving a need for well designed furniture at a middle of the road price point.

And it's more convenient.

Like you can take some of this stuff home same day you Also could return it to the store same day.

Like, it's no wonder that they're able to do a good business that we're seeing a 15 increase in, in sales in Illinois alone.

And then the last part, too, that I, I don't know for sure, but I'm curious.

And we'll talk to Fiona Tan on my panel next week at Shop Talk.

But I'm also wondering if they aren't able to now correlate data from in store, like somebody actually sitting on the couch with, like, the online reviews for something.

Like, why didn't somebody buy the couch in the store and why?

Or like, you know, if the reviews were bad online, like, people won't buy that thing.

How can they take the data from what people are experiencing and what their habits are, what they're buying or not buying in store, and correlate that with what people are doing or not doing on the website?

That's something that I wonder, like, as AI comes into the fold and helps people, like, distill this information, like, will they be able to improve their omnichannel operation overall because they have both data sources to support, you know, the sales or, or lack thereof of their product?

Yeah, and I can tell you don't even need AI for that.

I mean, I was doing that back at Target with a project called Digital Denver where we just did showroom of lawn and patio furniture, and the items in the store immediately exploded online.

So, yes, you should be able to correlate your data for what you're showing in store.

And if it's not getting a bump online, get it the hell out of the store as quickly as possible and replace it with something else.

So, yeah, there's just so many.

There's so many smart ways that a store can amplify your experience.

The one caveat I have about the story is the 15 sales lift on why the store is working.

Seems a little bit thin to me because you want the store to work on its own, you know, as.

As well as for it to work in the long term.

So you've got to figure out how to make it a profitable venture in and of itself.

Otherwise it'll be too expensive to operate.

So that's the one part.

But again, it's only.

It's.

I don't even think it's been open a year yet.

So we'll see as they roll this out and refine the concept and get it.

Get it understood more fully.

All right.

Headline number four.

Klarna will be the exclusive provider of Buy now, pay later loans for Walmart taking a coveted partnership away from its rival Affirm.

According to cnbc, Klarna will provide loans to Walmart customers in stores and online through the retailer's majority owned fintech startup, OnePay.

OnePay, which updated its brand name from One just this month, will handle the user experience via its app, while Klarna will make underwriting decisions for loans ranging from three months to, to 36 months in length and with annual interest rates from 10% to 36%.

The new product will be launched in the coming weeks and will be scaled to all Walmart channels by the end of the holiday season or by the holiday season, not the end of, but by the holiday season likely leaving, leaving it the retailer's only buy now, pay later option by year end.

And I'm curious, are you surprised at all with Walmart's decision to tie itself to one exclusive buy now, pay later provider like Klarna?

You know, I was more surprised I guess that they made the move away from a buy now, pay later provider that they had a pretty established relationship with.

Like, I can't imagine that that was a very easy move.

So I think there must be some good things that Klarna is bringing to the table here that get, that have made Walmart who I think is a very smart retailer and is making some smart moves with this, their, their one arm of the business that we're maybe, and maybe we're not reading about all those in the article.

I think it comes down to the best thing here for Walmart customers is that nothing changes for them like they are still, we can still use one without having to sign up for anything additional.

Like I stay in the Walmart app and I have to imagine that that was part of the terms of this agreement where like, you know, Klarna is just doing the underwriting here.

They're not changing.

Like I don't have to sign up for a Klarna account and leave the Walmart app and like it's just, it's frictionless for the consumer.

It's just taking away maybe something that Klarna is just better at than Walmart is.

And I think the other thing here is that this is also a big deal for Klarna.

Like they're a more global company but now signing on Walmart, now they have visibility into the large, you know, the largest US Market with Walmart and now comprehensively like they have that selling point for any other retailer that they go off of that they have the most global data which gives them you know, much more opportunity and I wonder if it doesn't help to make it more easier to spot bad actors too.

So like, if I know, you know, somebody's using Klarna at a retailer, you know, in Europe and somebody's using Klarna in Walmart, like, will they have better visibility to that dashboard of, of, of maybe people that are not using this service effectively or who are not paying back their loans, like, does that give them greater visibility too?

I don't know that for sure, but it would be something that I'd be curious about.

But were you surprised?

Like, where, where do you think about this?

Yeah, when I first read the headline, I actually was a little surprised because I do see a world, or at least I thought I saw a world where Klarna Affirm, Sezzle, Navy, NPL provider are like Visa, MasterCard, Discover, American Express.

They're just an option that you can use to pay wherever you want.

And ultimately in the long run.

But, but then I dug in and I think it's a really smart move from Walmart because it's basically, it's, it's a land grab, it's a, it's a positioning of, of one pay to be, you know, the thing that Walmart customers use, you know, and one pay for those unfamiliar, according to CNBC and the statistics they put in the article.

You know, it's a standalone business venture of Walmart and it has a, currently has a valuation of over $2 billion.

And here's the other part I didn't know.

And its revenue already is at $200 million a year.

That's nuts.

So this deal to me is about powering one pay as in one pay powered by Klarna like you said.

So, and Walmart has millions of people going through its stores every day.

If it can get people using its payment capabilities, not just in Walmart but also throughout the world, that means huge growth potential.

This is a growth strategy, folks.

This is what I talk about.

This is what I hit Target over the head for all the time.

This is a growth strategy.

That's why Walmart is so impressive here.

And the other part, and I don't know if you tried it, but I tried it yesterday.

It is so easy to sign up.

It took me less than three minutes to get signed up for it.

I got a 10 credit immediately.

I can get another 50 credit if I do some other things really quickly as well.

So it's, you can see where this is going.

You know, Walmart wants, I mean it's kind of a Page out of, like, Elon Musk and his Tesla payment thing.

Oh, boy.

Walmart wants to be the payment conduit.

Yes.

You know, for America, essentially.

And, and God, you can see how you can actually start to see how this could play out.

And so for that reason, I think it's actually a really smart move that they're just tying themselves to one partner, because that, that's the goal here at the end of the day, is just giving your customers something they can rely on.

You don't need to give them a lot of options at the end of the day either.

So just give them something they can rely on so you can focus on building that out.

Super, Super Smart by Walmart.

I.

I love this story.

Yeah.

And so easy.

Like, it's so easy whether you're checking out at the store, like, you can tap one page, like on your phone, if you're using your wallet.

Right.

It's so, so simple to do.

And that's what I love the most about this.

Like, there's no messing around.

It just kind of further establishes that relationship and that trust in Walmart as a retailer, too.

So.

All right, speaking of Walmart, let's talk about an ex Walmarter.

Headline number five, Wonder.

Marc Laurie's food delivery startup, Chris, once known for its fleet of kitchens on wheels, said it has acquired the media company tastemade.

According to the Wall Street Journal, the purchase price was around $90 million.

Man, I want Mark Laurie money.

How do I get Mark Laurie money, Chris?

How do we do it?

Because it sounds amazing.

Timberwolves, you know, tastemade.

Gotta know how to sell treads.

Buy whatever you want.

Okay, well, according.

According to people familiar with the transaction here, the deal is also the latest step in Wonder's effort to create a meal time super app, encompassing elements such as takeout delivery, meal kits, and now an international production company, content studio, and advertising business.

Wonder in 2023 put the kibosh on its plan to build a nationwide fleet of kitchens and vans that cooked hot curbside meals.

Shifting to a less costly model, its flagship business now offers pickup delivery and dine in from multiple restaurant brands, prepping dishes in a large central kitchen and cooking them to order at 38 restaurant locations.

It also acquired the meal kit brand Blue Apron in 2023 and the food delivery startup Grubhub in 2024.

The acquisition means viewers who want to watch a famous chef make her signature pasta on a tastemade streaming channel, for example, may soon be able to easily order the dish to their door through Wonder.

Grubhub or Blue Apron.

Tastemade co founder and CEO Larry Fitzgibbon said.

Chris, does Wonder's taste made acquisition make you more or less inclined to buy into Wonder's super app for mealtime positioning?

Oh, man, the super app positioning.

No, but I want to explain that, Ann.

And I'm dying too.

But yeah, first of all, the valuation for Wonder is out of control.

I mean, three and a half billion, I think they said 2022 is the last valuation, if memory serves, and don't quote me on this, but I feel like Walmart acquired jet for 3.6 billion.

If I'm not mistaken, it was something like around that.

So like, so this is, this is like nuts.

It's out of control.

But I gotta tell you, Anne, like, I don't know, maybe I hit myself on the head last night as I was getting out of the shower or something, but I kind of more and more like what he's trying to do here.

But instead of the super app for meal time, my handle would be like a personalized on demand chef for anyone that wants one.

That's really, I think, what hooks me here.

I love that.

Meal time, I just don't get that.

I'm like, what is that?

But if you give me a personalized chef for everyone, if anyone in the world can have a personalized chef, that's cool.

And, and Lori, like I mentioned earlier at the show, he's hitting on all the trends here.

He's hitting on food is medicine, the inspirational social commerce and conversational commerce angles as well.

So you know, how.

But the.

Mike, my one question with this though is how, how in the world does anyone ever make money with that idea?

Like, the logicians of it seem just impossible to line up all the ingredients to be everyone's chef on demand.

But.

But maybe there's like a middle ground here, an in between position that Wonder's trying to go for, that I just don't understand yet.

And so, like, but just on the pure audacity side of venture capital, going after something big and bold for an idea that has a hook and could work.

I think for that reason, I think it's a great idea and I actually like it.

And I don't know what's wrong with me.

I don't know if I have a fever.

I'm having a fever dream.

I don't know.

But I actually like something that Mark Lorre's doing now.

I think people need to be cognizant of just how big they need to get behind this idea, which he's very good at doing.

But fundamentally as a concept, I, I, I like it in principle.

Okay.

But I, so I, one, I love your, your I, your concept of like democratizing personal chefs for all people.

But Chris, like, if you had a personal chef, what is the beauty of having that personal chef?

Like, the beauty of it is like all the ingredients that, and again, you're gonna, there's gonna be have to be a high willingness to pay for this too.

But, but, but the beauty of it is that the beauty of it is like, you know, if you have dietary restrictions or whatever you're in the mood for, you can go on the app, you can get in, you can actually just look through your social media feed and you know, with AI it should over time be able to understand all those things.

So it can serve me up like 10 things I find inspiring for dinner.

Boom, click it.

I want it here it comes to my house.

That's, that's kind of cool.

Yeah.

Well, what you're getting to and the question that I was asking you is really, you have choice because right now when you get home and you want something to eat, you either have the option of making it, ordering all the ingredients, or going to the store to get all the ingredients or doordashing something and you know, you're getting the best case scenario.

And so what I actually really like about this is that when you look at all the pieces that Lori's bringing together here, he's bringing in the more opportunity and choice for the consumer.

I think it still plays on Gen Z, especially their willingness to like door dash anything.

They'll doordash food instead of making it.

But instead of worrying of paying the fees to have that meal prepared, you could also potentially be like, you know what?

I, I'm in the mood for tacos tonight.

And you can do Blue Apron to your house in, you know, no time at all.

You and maybe that's a little bit less than ordering prepared tacos from your local taco restaurant.

Like there, I think it's g giving people a little bit of an ability to lever up.

So cook it, you're saying, if you want.

Exactly, exactly.

So I think that's the smart thing here.

Or you know, you're getting inspired by, like you said, watching a cooking video and you want to do that thing.

Do you want to make it yourself that night or do you want it to come prepared for you?

Like, I think it's taking all of.

Those trade offs, all that.

Yeah, exactly.

That you cannot do right now.

And that's where it's like, if we're using the term super app, I think that's where the, the beauty of this is, not that it's going to be like solving all of your problems and you only have one app that you're like, it's not Alibaba or something in China.

It's really just how do you figure out how to give people the most cost benefit and convenience benefit here to get what they want in a shorter amount of time that Blue Apron couldn't do on their own.

Grubhub can't do on their own.

And now, finally, you have an advertising platform where all of these brands now can potentially come in to help, maybe even subsidize some of those delivery fees like that.

All of this money is being fueled into this organization to again, continue to provide maybe more opportunities now for consumers to get this at a lower price.

Like you.

You watch the full video or the full ad like we do on YouTube, and then you get $5 off at the end your delivery or you get free delivery.

Like, there's so many levers here that I think Mark Laurie is.

Is very smartly positioning for the next generation of food consumption and ordering.

So that's.

That's where I think the magic really, really comes into play here.

Yeah, yeah, right.

Yeah.

No, you bring up some good points.

The devil's, of course, in the details of can you actually make this work at.

Oh, God, like.

Like assembling all those ingredients and getting them to be able to do this?

It just seems, like, impossible to me without, you know, charging just a hell of a lot of money.

But I don't know.

Maybe.

But I think the point you're bringing up, though, is really interesting.

Is like, you know, the one.

It is a universal point of friction.

Food, you know, and what we eat is constrained by what we have available and what we know how to do.

And so this is eliminating that point of friction in people's lives, potentially as a concept, because it gives you choice.

And, you know, what does Bezos always say?

Choice is one of the universal truths of the human psyche.

And so I think you're hitting on it.

And I think, yeah, so we both like this.

I'm surprised.

I was kind of surprised that you're kind of in on this too.

So that's fascinating.

Well, at this point in time, like, if Mark Laurie is going to do it, I need to learn a thing or two.

He needs to write a book so we can all learn how to.

How to just like, open our mouths and no words come out and people just start throwing money at us.

This is, I, I need to figure out how to, how I can make a career out of that.

So I'll follow.

Interesting.

Until this, yeah, until the, until, you know, until we find out what happens, you know, we'll probably follow him on the next one too.

It's an interesting pivot though too.

Like, you know, they start out with the food trucks and we're always like, how's that going to scale?

You can't scale that.

You can't have food trucks everywhere.

You know, that's just not economical because you need one everywhere you go.

But, you know, if they can find a centralized kitchen, you know, and figure this out.

I don't know.

I, I.

Greater men than you and greater men and women and everyone else than you and I have, have, have probably more experience on, on the, the cloud kitchen aspect of this and, But, God, I, it's audacious.

Okay, well, we're going to move from cloud kitchens to Irish pubs, so let's go to the Lightning.

Now we're talking question number one for you.

Heineken is helping fourth generation Irish pub owner Joe Joseph Josie McLaughlin, who owns McLaughlin's Bar, to find his next successor.

The only requirement that Josie has here is that you must have the last name McLaughlin.

Chris, I'm wondering, would you consider changing your last name From Walton to McLaughlin to save this man's family bar and move to Western Ireland for a new career as a barkeep?

Too right I would add.

Too right I would add.

And as Irish would say, I might as well be hung for sheep as I am hung for a lamb.

Because I mean, my question would be, how long, how long does, how long does it take to do the name change?

I don't know if they'd want me running a bar.

I don't know if I'd actually want to at the end of the day.

But yeah, sign me up.

Oh, my God, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Why didn't you know?

I don't get that, I don't get that expression.

Yeah, it just means like that.

I don't know, let's look it up later.

I can't explain it either, but I, I know I become Seamus O'Walton for an Irish bar.

Yes.

100.

All right.

God.

Next one.

Unimpressed Mariah Carey went viral this week for her reaction to I heart music to iheartradio music awards 2025 tribute.

What is one time you remember not reacting to something the way those around you expected that you should?

I'm wondering if you had something in mind when you.

Like, I didn't.

If there's something.

Okay.

I was like, I'm trying to think if I've done that.

Like, when we've been working together, the only thing I could think of was my 30th birthday.

But that is a long story.

I had a.

My husband at the time had a surprise birthday party for me, and it was like, there's a lot of things.

He held it on my dad's birthday, which.

And, yeah, I don't.

We'll have a drink and talk about this for a much longer time, because there's a lot of things that.

That did not go right at that party.

We'll just say that you're not stoked by the attempt.

Yeah, no, I was not surprised.

I was concerned.

We'll put it that way.

So anyway, that was the first thing that came to mind.

So I didn't have anything in my history about this.

No, I.

I honestly.

I know.

I can't even think of one now, so.

Yeah.

All right.

All right, Chris.

The Four Seasons resorts are offering a 20.

Or.

Sorry, a $200,000 excursion.

Not 20,000.

No, no.

That takes you via private jet to all three of their locations where White Lotus seasons one through three have been filmed.

If you had $200,000 to spend on a vacation, is this a trip that you would consider.

My God, yes, 100%.

And, yeah, if I had $200,000 to spend frivolously on stuff like this.

Yes, 100%.

I mean, white Lotus is the best vacation porn that there is.

My question is, where is season four and where do you think they go?

I mean, I kind of want them to do, like, the mountain or skiing version, but I don't know if you can make that sexy enough.

I don't know.

You know?

Like, I.

I don't know, but I'm curious.

We.

You know, my wife and I debate that all the time.

Like, where is the next one going to be?

You know, we're like, yeah, the Maldives.

Go to the Maldives.

Like, what do you do?

You know?

Or.

Or South America, probably.

Yeah.

Where's it going next?

You know, But.

But, yeah, that.

So, yes, 100%.

Yeah, I'm all about it.

All right, last one.

The Happy Gilmore 2 trailer is out.

And your three favorite Adam Sandler movies, Billy Madison.

That's where I remember.

When you were seeing Carl, do you remember that reference where he's like, carl?

Yeah, Carl's trying to tell him he can't spend his money.

Billy Madison, Happy Gilmore.

And then Uncut Gems.

I loved that movie.

I love uncut gems.

That was in my.

My three, too.

Yeah.

What are yours?

Yeah, mine are Happy Gilmore, probably Happy Gilmore number one, Uncut Gems number two, and then Big Daddy number three, I like.

Oh, that was cute, too.

I forgot about that one.

But no, Billy Master all the Way, too.

I don't remember what that's called, but he did that basketball movie, too, which I can't for the life of me remember the name of it, but.

Yeah, no, he's got a.

He's got a.

Quite the encyclopedia of good films.

And you're.

You're not coming to my bar mitzvah was actually very good, too.

You're.

You're absolutely not invited to my bar mitzvah.

It's like his whole family's in that movie.

It was very, very well done.

Yeah, I thought it was Wedding Singer's good, too.

And that's another good one.

You know, Remember the Wedding Singer?

That almost.

Or what was the Bobby Boucher one, too?

The Water Boy.

The Water Boy.

Yeah, that one was funny.

That was a good one, too.

I've never seen.

They're all.

The Water Boy.

They're all good.

Yeah, he's.

He's a unique talent.

They're, They're.

They're all.

They're all marginally good.

Some are marginally better than others.

All right, happy birthday today to Bruce Willis, Theo Vaughn, Shout out to him for making the podcast.

And to the woman who made Shower Crying an art form in the Big Chill, the great Glenn Close.

And remember, if you can only read or listen to one retail blog in the business, Make It Omnitok, the only retail media outlet run by two former executives from a current top 10 US retailer.

Our Fast Five podcast is the quickest, fastest rundown of all the week's top news.

Our daily newsletter, the Retail Daily Minute, tells you all you need to know each day.

Stay on top of your game as a retail executive and also regularly feature special content that is exclusive to us and that Ann and I take a lot of pride in doing just for you.

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Until then, on behalf of all of us at omnitalk, as always, be careful out there.