Instacart's Pricing Retreat + Amazon's Alexa Gets Hungry | Fast Five

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E L O q.com hello and happy new year.

You are listening to Omnitalk's Retail Fast Five, ranked in the top 10% of all podcasts globally and currently the only retail podcast ranked in the top 100 of all business podcasts on Apple Podcasts.

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It's January 7, 2026, our first show of the New Year.

I'm one of your hosts, San Mazinga.

And I'm Chris Walton.

And we are here once again to discuss all the top headlines from the past week and weeks, making waves in the world of omnichannel retailing.

Chris, to kick us off, some of the listeners may have heard in the introduction that we have a new sponsor in 2026, but Valox.

So maybe, maybe would you mind telling the audience a little bit about them?

Yes, absolutely.

And Valak is part of their division of the Rollick Group, which is an E Commerce grocer out of of Europe.

And they're actually doing E Commerce grocery profitably.

And we're going to have Richard McKenzie, the CEO of a lock whose idea, whose basically goal is to take the technology that they're using to do that from the Roll It Group and bring it out to other grocers and retailers.

And so we're going to have him on later in five insightful minutes to explain exactly how he, he goes about accomplishing that and is working with others to do that.

So can't wait to have him on.

And thanks to them for sponsoring our work.

It's great to have them to start the year.

Yeah.

Can't think of a single grocery retailer that doesn't want to do E Commerce grocery profitably.

So that's, that's a good one to have into the mix.

So welcome Valak.

Yeah, kind of an imperative.

And, and if anyone wants to meet up with him at, at NR or FMI in the next couple weeks.

I don't actually know if he's gonna be at fmi, but he's gonna definitely be at nrf.

So, yeah, hit me up and I'll, I'll, I'll make sure you guys get connected.

Well, speaking of nrf, we are heading there this weekend, so be sure Omnich fans to make sure to check out first our Omnitoch Must See Tech Preview, which will be airing Thursday, January 8, tomorrow at 12pm Eastern.

And we will be bringing you interviews from some of retail's brightest and greatest from the Fusion group booth at 4921 on the expo floor.

Come say hello.

Come say hi to Chris and I and to the Fusion Group.

We'll have our own recording studio there.

We are so excited to bring you all of our coverage this year from NRF.

All right, starting the year, happy new year.

It's 2026.

In this week's Fast Five, we've got news on Kroger launching a new discount program to lure more snap recipients into its stores.

Amazon launching a browser based Alexa plus for meal planning.

Tried it out myself this morning.

And Save Mart placing Amazon Returns kiosk within its stores.

Snooks piloting a really interesting concept to combat gift card fraud.

And as I mentioned at the outset, Velox CEO Richard McKenzie stops by to give us five insightful minutes on what it means to stand out and be profitable as an online grocer.

But we begin today with some what I would call pricing CYA out of Instacart.

And yes, what might not come as a surprise to many after our coverage of this story toward the end of last year.

Headline number one is that Instacart says that it's ending a price testing program that allowed retailers to charge online shoppers different amounts for the same products, according to Grocery Dive.

The decision comes just weeks after Instacart landed in the hot seat following an investigation by Consumer Reports and Groundwork Collaborative that found grocery prices could differ by as much as 23% between customers on the E commerce platform.

Instacart said that the report misclassified its tests as dynamic or surveillance pricing that utilized consumer data to update prices.

The company said it was running short term randomized AB pricing experiments that were, quote, never based on supply or demand, personal data, demographics or individual shopping behavior.

End quote.

Retail partners can still set different prices for items, however, on a store by store basis on instacart, just as they can with physical stores, Instacart said Chris, this is now the A and M put you on the spot question first.

Put you on the spot question of 2026.

A&M wants to know how should retailers and brands think about the trade off between sophisticated pricey experimentation and retaining long term customer trust, especially in an increasingly AI driven retail environment?

Oh wow.

Wow.

We start off, we start off hot.

In 2026.

I get the first put you on the spot question for the very first headline.

Lucky me.

All right, well, I'll get to that.

I'll get to my answer to that in a second.

But first, you know, I'm glad this topic's leading the show because I think there's much more conversation to be had around it than we had, you know, a couple weeks ago.

You know, my initial inclination, Anne, is that Instacart had to do this.

And for me it all comes down to cognitive dissonance.

So like grocery shopping is different than how we buy airline tickets.

We walk into the store same as everyone else and see one price on the shelf.

Everyone knows that, which is why the whole thing makes people feel like they are being taken advantage of or taken advantage of or potentially being manipulated.

So the right way to do this and to get to the question at hand to answer that from A and M is I don't think you make your prices different, but you make your discounts different.

You leverage your retail media networks via discounting.

As more volume moves online.

Far few people, I think this is my opinion, if any, honestly would have a problem with getting served up discounts.

And cognitively it's already happening by way of individualized reward schemes and also through display advertising.

So it's just an evolution in that, in that arena.

That's where I'd be putting my focus and my time to get the most out of my pricing strategies.

Yeah, I think that makes sense and I think I agree we'll start to see more retailers go this way.

You know, it's, it's, I give you my loyalty or my information, you give me a deal that's catered specifically to me and my shopping behaviors.

I think that feels, definitely feels much more acceptable from a consumer standpoint, but I still don't know that I agree that grocery shopping online via Instacart is different than how we buy airline tickets.

Like, I guess I'm less, I don't like how they were, how they were scheming and charging.

But I think that the media has really blown this out of proportion.

Like the same report said, oh, it costs customers twelve hundred dollars a.

Well, that's, that's if you, you know, amortize that over the course of a year.

This was a short term experiment, so I guess I don't have as much issue with it.

We see retailers still doing this today.

There's a different place online when I, you know, go on target.com and then I buy something in the store.

Will they correct it for me if I bring it up?

Sure.

But I think there's still something to be said of having the con like Instacart is still a convenience to me.

And so I think that, you know, I'm glad they're ending this program.

I think going the loyalty scheme route makes a lot more sen.

But I think the key here is really for retailers to be paying more attention to the fact that customers are more savvy when it comes to price transparency.

They are looking now at grocery shopping the same way they're looking and comparing gas prices the same way they're comparing Uber and Lyft prices and, and airlines.

You know, like this mentality is now available at consumers fingertips with some of the tools that we've talked about on this show to upload your, their grocery list to ChatGPT and find the best price available wherever they are or wherever they want to do their shopping.

So I think that's the key takeaway.

You have to think really long and hard about what your strategy is going to be.

I like your option of the, the loyalty schemes instead of the variable pricing, but I still don't think that we'll see variable pricing go away completely.

And I don't know that I'm upset, upset about that.

When you're using something like Instacart.

Yeah.

So, okay, so you're kind of talking out of both sides of your mouth to be honest, because you're saying like you're okay with it.

Actually you, it sounds like you as a consumer are okay with it, but then yet you like that Instacart is discontinuing the practice.

So like, so help resolve that dichotomy.

I think, I think if you're going to shop via Instacart, you are paying a premium.

It's a convenience.

If you're shopping via Shipt, if you're shopping via any one of those programs, it's not walking into the store like you're talking about and you're looking at Heinz ketchup at, you know, the Kowalski's or Cub foods and you're looking at Target.

It's, it's, that's a different shopping mentality.

So to me, I think that if there's going to be a premium charged on, on somebody doing your grocery shopping for you, you should not expect price parity across the board.

But that's not what this is about.

This is about, this is about you electing to use in.

You say you electing to use Instacart and then me electing use Instacart and me getting a different price from you for using it.

I mean, it's happening, it happens with all kinds of convenience products.

Like I just, I mean the same thing happens with Uber.

Are you getting upset because an Uber costs you one price and cost me one price?

No, we're all at the, It's a convenience thing for us.

So I think there's.

Instacart has to make money.

How are they going to make money?

It's going to be based on supply and demand.

And so I guess I don't, I guess I don't take as much issue with it in a convenience setting when it's something for you.

Yeah.

So if you're instigated that should you just held your ground.

I don't, I think there, I feel like there's still some, there was some manipulation happening here in the way that they were doing it.

But I would have, I think I would have held my ground a little bit more if I was Instacart.

And I know that's probably not a popular opinion, but, but Instacart's a business.

They have to still try to make money.

There's a lot of people that are going to choose not to use Instacart as a result of this.

And that's a repercussion that Instacart's going to have to consider.

And I think actually positions the grocery retailers in an even better spot to do their own fulfillment, which we'll talk about in a little bit because customers are, are working specifically with one grocer versus, you know, going on Instacart.

I need something last minute, I want it delivered.

Yeah.

And the other, the other factor here is we haven't even talked about the government side of this.

The government gets involved in this.

The government doesn't like this type of thing.

And for, and in my opinion, for good reason because I actually disagree with you 100%.

I don't, I don't think, I don't think this, this works, particularly in the grocery arena because of the cognitive dissonance of when I go into a grocery store, I get the same price as everybody else, the same regular price.

So.

All right, headline number two.

Kroger has launched a new discount program whereby people enrolled in SNAP, WIC, Medicaid or similar programs can get a 20% discount on produce and half off the cost of the grocer's Boost membership program.

According to a Kroger press release, customers can enroll in the program through Sheer id, an online verification service provider, and verification is valid for five months.

Verified savings customers are also eligible for 50% off annual and monthly Boost membership plans, including boost essential at $34.50 per year or $4.50 per month and boost at $49.50 per year or $6.50 per month.

And little known fun fact, according to Grocery Dive, SNAP customers typically outspend their non Snap shopper counterparts on groceries.

A fact I was not aware of.

And what do you think the strategic rationale is behind Kroger's new discount program for Snap recipients?

I actually think this is a really smart move from Kroger and something that they had to do because Aldi Walmart, they were eating Kroger's lunch when it came to their share of grocery, especially discounted grocery and produce.

And so I think this means this looks to be a smart move for Kroger to attract a consistent customer base who I also didn't know.

Apparently the SNAP recipients outspend their non SNAP counterpart.

So I think this is going to be a direct hit and at Aldi and at Walmart.

But the biggest challenges that I see in this and, and I think what Kroger will really have to invest in this is going to be a huge marketing push is to get awareness of this program out there.

It's a great deal.

There's the incentives are wonderful.

20% off produce and a very discounted delivery program.

Amazing opportunity for SNAP participants.

But, but getting people to switch their routines is difficult.

And so I think that they're really going to have to push how they're getting out there and trying to get this groundswell of people who are using SNAP benefits to understand this is the place to go.

Kroger and the boost membership are very advantageous for you in a variety of ways.

And I think that that could be a pretty big hurdle to get over.

But there's.

The incentive is certainly there.

But Chris, what are your thoughts about it?

Would you have advised Kroger to do this if you were, if you were.

In the boardroom so net that you like it, you like it a lot?

That's what I'm taking from this.

I think from, from Kroger's perspective, yes, they, it was something that they had to do to try to gain share, especially with all the other things with Ocado, you know, that relationship sunsetting and all the other things that they have going on.

I think to, to really get gain share again in relevance with, with a, a customer base that's concerned about price, they have to do it.

Yeah, I actually, I 100% disagree.

I don't like this at all.

I think when you're in a position where you're having to compete on price, particularly at this demographic, it's not a, it's not an advantageous position that I would want to be in if I'm Kroger.

And you know, for that reason I agree with you in some things you said.

I think this has Walmart and Aldi written all over it.

You know, I think it's like, it's kind of like we're in the boardroom, we're looking forward and we don't like what we see.

And it's potentially even a move of desperation.

Because the aggressiveness, it's a very aggressive stance here that makes me think they're worried about losing share.

We know from Brick meets clicks report last year, last month that Walmart is gaining share online, they're likely gaining share in store.

Bloomberg just did the big article on Aldi yesterday too, so we know they're doing well.

And my hunches, Kroger looks out and doesn't like what it sees.

And so the other part I don't like about this, Ann, is once you do this for this base, a 20% discount, that's really hard to unwind and that's going to be in your annual numbers year over year over year.

And that's just going to be a continuing profit hit going forward.

So I don't know, it seems drastic to me.

I think, I think I applaud the compassion and what they're trying to do here in terms of the community that they're trying to help here by getting groceries that people need into their, into their homes less expensively.

But I worry for Kroger in the long run, if this will play off and there wasn't a better way to accomplish something similar.

What would you advise them to do then to compete against Walmart and Aldi?

I don't know.

I mean, I think that's, that's, that's a great question.

Like, you've got to look at, you know, you, you mentioned the Okada relationship.

They're trying to figure that out.

They've got to figure out the pro, the economics and profits of that.

But ultimately, at the end of the day, the real differentiation comes into the question we always ask on the store.

Why am I coming to a Kroger store to begin with?

Which is why I've actually always been kind of short on Kroger in the long run because I don't see them differentiating themselves five to ten years out.

When you look at what Aldi can do, what Walmart can do and what some of the other competitors can do.

And you have Amazon out there in the E commerce space, which we're going to talk about in the next couple of headlines, also doing what they're doing.

So it's kind of a tough, it's a tough question to answer.

I don't have the answer.

It's kind of how I feel about the department stores as well.

Like, it's just kind of a model that might be starting to lose its sway with the American consumer.

And that's what concerns me.

Yeah, that's, I mean, it's a It's a good point.

I think there's a lot to be considered.

The point I think that is most important that I would be looking at as KRoger Is this 20% discount on the produce.

How do you figure out like, I think right now it's only good for January or some, some shorter period of time.

But I think how do you figure out to invest in keeping something like that available to these SNAP participants that because one month is not enough to carry this on like you, you have to take, you know, consider it like is this a marketing expense?

Are we pulling from the marketing budget to compensate for this 20% off that we're going to be giving people?

It requires a completely new way of thinking for Kroger to, to still stay relevant.

Which I think is, is a good point that you, you brought up there at the end.

All right, let's go to headline number three.

Amazon has integrated instant meal shopping into its browser based Alexa model.

According to Chain storage, the latest version of the Amazon Alexa voice enabled device complete with meal planning and shopping features is available via browser.

Initially introduced in February 2025, Alexa combines more than 70 large language models and agentic capabilities supported by the Amazon Bedrock platform on Amazon Web Services.

Functionality includes end to end meal planning and customers can also ask Alexa for a full week's menu and have a week breakfast, lunch and dinner options.

With their personal preferences taken into account, customers can then ask Alexa to add every recommended item that they need to their Amazon Fresher Whole Foods Market cart ready to order.

In addition, users can drop a recipe link into Alexa and ask it to customize the recipe to their specific dietary restrictions and add it to, to their recipe library.

Shoppers can then convert the full recipe into ingredients and have them added to their shopping list.

Chris, are you buying or selling the new Alexa plus browser edition for meal planning?

And you actually tried this it sounds like.

So I want to hear what your thoughts are.

I did, I did, I did.

I'm one of the new early users.

It says, it says hey, welcome, you're a new early user.

It's a great feeling to have this morning that I, that I received was trying it out.

Yeah, I actually, it's, it's actually pretty darn slick and I'm actually, to answer your question, I'm buying this and it actually puts some gloss on Amazon's what I would call to date, lackluster grocery strategy.

And number one, I find it's really interesting that Amazon is launching this and immediately talking about its use for meal planning like that's what they're talking about.

That's crazy when you stop and think about it.

That tells me Amazon is really, really jonesing to find growth out of grocery.

They are a hundred percent want that business.

Number two, Alexa has an installed user base and the Alexa owners like I think of, like our old buddy Carter Jensen used to be on the show a long time ago.

They're probably likely the first adopters for this type of tech.

So that is also a very good thing.

Number three, no one knows which agentic AI interface for grocery shopping will win out and Amazon stands as good a chance as any to win that battle in my opinion, even though ChatGPT may have the early lead in terms of like brand recognition.

So the cop.

The other part I like about this, the combination of Whole Foods, Amazon, Amazon's marketplace partners does mean, it does mean if you want to shop this way, you can complete your entire weekly grocery trip through an interface like this.

And like I said, I tried it out this morning.

I did give me five paleo breakfast menu options for a week.

It did it.

And then I said I want to Prepare them in 10 minutes or less because I don't want to do the work.

It gave me more options.

I didn't have time to go and order it and see, and trial it out and see how many of the items can come directly from Amazon from the recipe.

But hey, it's got me intrigued and I'm interested in it.

So yeah, I'm, I'm buying this one.

Yeah, I think I agree.

I mean I get why Amazon is doing this for all the reasons that you shared there.

They're really trying to continue to build out the Amazon ecosystem similar to.

It reminds me of now of like how Apple, the Apple ecosystem is.

So I like that a lot because I've never been an Alexa fan, so I've always, I've always kind of kept it outside.

It didn't seem to have enough use or enough use cases for me to actually bite down, bite the bullet and get one.

But you know, the problem that I have with this is that you're still reliant on two retailers for your groceries.

And that's the problem that I have.

Like, I don't know that one.

I'm, you know, I can go to ChatGPT and get, put in the same query and get a whole list of different options I can get.

Retailers across the board are not limited to just Amazon Fresh Delivery and, and Whole Foods.

And I think that there's still a price, a price perception problem with Whole Foods when I'm ordering Paleo breakfast, things like those products are expensive.

So I think, you know, without quality being significant enough to me and with the, the price perception that I'm going to be paying more for my products delivered from Whole Foods, even though I can get them in one cart, I think my best move as a consumer is to go to an independent source like ChatGPT, type in the same query, have those items added to my cart, check out through, you know, Walmart, Chat GPT, assuming they add groceries, which I guess that that's something that they haven't done right now, but check out and see, do a price comparison and say where, where in all of my grocery universe can I get this list of ingredients for the best price possible and then be able to make a decision versus just being limited to what's within the Amazon and Whole Foods product environment?

Yeah, and yeah, it's a great question.

And the question comes down to how many people are like you versus how many people are just okay with getting products they can trust enough from Amazon and then supplementing the higher priced products they want to from Whole Foods and, and the other options too.

Let's not forget Amazon has a marketplace of grocers available to it that are selling through the platform.

We've always asked why they're doing that.

I don't really understand that, but they do.

And we're going to talk.

You know, there's quite a few of them that are out there that are part of that stable.

So it's wild.

All right, let's bring Richard onto today's show.

Joining us today for five insightful minutes is a guest with.

We have been really excited to get on the show since we first met him at Grocery Shop last year.

Richard McKenzie, the chief executive officer at Veloc, a division of the Roelik Group.

Richard, welcome to omnitalk.

And let's get right to it.

For listeners who may not know Roelik, give us a quick overview of who you are, how Volok fits into them and how your model differs from typical online grocers.

Thank you, Chris.

I think Roelic for me is a bit of a, is a bit of a hidden gem.

So we do about $2 billion, give or take in revenue in five countries in Europe, but we're growing at 30% a year, which when you just add up what that means in terms of putting on growth every year is frankly quite remarkable.

And our proposition for the customer is just great.

So we're offering a really full basket and that's the full complexity of grocery, fresh bakery, fresh food, and everything you would find in a shop.

And we're delivering it fast.

So it's done in standard Delivery time is three hours.

We're doing that out of 12 distribution centers, which we're now automated.

And those distributions, they vary in size, but they're typically 50,000 square feet to 100,000 square feet.

So they're really quite compact in terms of what they do.

Because we're centralized, it means that we can deliver really excellent customer service.

So we're getting customer NPS scores.

Our weighted average across our markets is something like 88, which, again, is just better than anything I've seen elsewhere.

And then what we're doing with Veloc, we're taking that technology, making it available and so that we can work, or our technology can work with other grocers and they can start to offer a similar type of service that we're offering to our customers has been so successful for us.

Well, Richard, you mentioned it a couple of times.

Everyone's talking about how unprofitable online grocery can be, but you mentioned twice you are doing this profitably.

How has Roelik managed to do this?

I'd say there's a few things.

The first, actually, I already mentioned one, is it's full basket.

And actually, if you do full basket, you get a big basket.

So if you're doing, I don't know, $120 baskets, you've got the margin there to pay for some of the picking and the packing and even the delivery.

The important thing is to get that range so you get that basket in there.

The second thing we run, then we just make sure the fulfillment centers are efficient, they're automated.

We get a really good uph of the labor costs in those stay down.

I'd say.

The third thing I'd also highlight is they've got to be the right size.

So if you build them too big, they're not utilized, and you just end up with the kind of, what's been called monuments.

So for us, build them the right size, and then you can get.

Also you can get them closer into the town.

So you're managing the last mile, you know, so you're keeping that.

So we.

We build them really compact and try and keep them as close into the town as possible.

And the last thing, and I think we'll come on to this a bit more, is the system.

It's got to be joining all this up between the last mile, the fulfillment center.

Orchestrating all of this is difficult, and you've got to do that, to keep the waste down, to keep the kind of the unused labor down.

So just kind of, that one system I think is also really important.

Right.

And you've been building this technology for over the course of the last decade.

Um, so you've, you've worked a lot of those things out.

As you offer this to other operators.

What would you say makes your technology, the underlying technology, unique?

Look, I think I'd almost gonna start with a philosophical point that we, we started here kind of with the customer proposition.

So, you know, we started by saying, what do you have to do to win?

You need a full basket, you need, you need fast delivery.

And then we kind of work backwards from the proposition to say how do you make the technology work for that?

So we've kind of gone backwards to say actually how do we create the software stack that enables the orchestration of the bakery getting everything out of the door really quick?

And that's kind of, I think just what's different is actually our technology has come kind of customer backwards rather than saying, what can we now do with this, this technology?

I'd say the second point is, you know, we're grocers, we're fundamentally grocers and we've built it kind of with that operator mindset.

So, you know, we've got one software brain, for want of a better word, that makes this kind of easy to operate.

And you'll know that these, these centers, you know, a grocer is good at running a shop, it's good at running a distribution center.

Running fulfillment centers are a little bit different.

So we've had to kind of build this software that really kind of enables that to happen in this kind of joined up way, which just to give you an idea of the complexity, we run seven picking zones in most our fulfillment centers.

This software will orchestrate simultaneous picking of all of those zones.

So it's then brought together and consolidated in the back of the van about 30 minutes after the fulfilment centers receive the order.

And that's just a complicated set of operations to run.

And I think that's kind of, that's to me what we kind of, what makes it different.

You know, we've seen a lot of grocers, particularly here in the United States of recent, that have hit the recent headlines that have struggled with automation or even pause major automation projects.

Why do you think Rolex approach works when those haven't worked in the past?

Yeah, it's a, it's a very good question.

And let's, let's Be totally honest, it's been a journey for us.

We started this automation journey kind of four or five years ago.

And I think one of the first things we learned is not just about the automation.

You've got to actually think about this in a really joined up way.

So being candid, when you take the standard software off the shelf, you get with it.

It is just not built for grocery.

It doesn't do the orchestration, it doesn't do the speed.

It doesn't really think about what's perishable, what the shelf life is, what the temperature zones are.

It doesn't manage that complexity of grocery.

So we've gone through that journey over five years of taking the software, progressively rewriting it and making it grocery first.

And I think that to me has kind of been the key for us.

It's taking the technology and making it grocery first.

Because frankly, most people haven't thought grocery in the scheme of warehousing is relatively small.

We wanted to make that thing that worked for grocery and then we eat our own lunch.

We're the operators here and we have to make it work.

Let's be honest, we wouldn't have had a business if we didn't have this working.

And I think that's kind of part of the reason we're here.

And now as CEO of Lock, I mean, you're trying to make this technology available to others.

So let's get you out of here on this.

Like why?

Why are you doing that?

Because you said you eat what you cook, but why are you trying to make this available to others?

Now look, I think for us, the problems we've solved with Roelic are actually genuinely the same problems as a lot of grocers around the world have.

How do you deliver efficient?

How do you deliver an excellent customer proposition, efficiently make it profitable?

And E commerce is kind of that thing that grocers have tried to ignore.

But actually as the customer wants it, the customer is driving this.

And you're seeing growth everywhere around the world and particularly in the US.

We.

Will create more value and our platform will create more value if we can get more people operating it.

From our point of view, this is now a new growth leverage for the ROELIT group.

We can now use this to actually enhance our growth.

But from a point of view of our partners, they get a provider who's got skin in the game because this is something, this is our technology that we make work and we have to make work.

So for us, it's a perfect fit.

And frankly, we also just want to Prove we have a strong belief that E Commerce Grocery can be successful, profitable, and we just want to prove that works.

All right, well, we are anxious to see how it goes for you, Richard.

So thank you very much for appearing on today's program.

My pleasure.

Thank you.

Headline number four.

Save Mart and Amazon are partnering on in store return kiosks according to chainsaw as the SaveMart companies is implementing Amazon return kiosks across its SafeMart, Lucky and FoodMax banners after a successful pilot program.

I cannot say pilot for the life of me.

Pilot program in 15 stores across California and Nevada.

The service expanded to 140 additional stores by the end of December.

Kiosk will be available at all remaining stores by February 2026.

The program allows customers to return eligible Amazon items during their grocery run with no shipping box, tape or label required.

Bags and labels are provided at the kiosk where customers scan a QR code, bag their items and drop them off securely.

And what do you think of Amazon return kiosks at Save Mart, both for Save Mart and also for Amazon?

I love it.

I think that.

Do you need a person behind the desk that's taken up time to accept all of these Amazon returns that are flooding these retailers?

I don't think so.

I think that we've reached a stage in consumer adoption where they're used to, okay, I scan a QR code, here's my package.

Especially without having to do boxes or labeling.

I think, you know, if, if this setup is working in the test stores that Save Mart has been doing this in already, they've, they've kind of evaluated all the things from returns fraud to all the other items that, you know, you know, whether or not they're getting the right items back.

I think it, it makes sense to me that we try to speed this up and then take Save Mart team members who were bogged down.

I mean, during the holidays, I don't know if you were at a Kohl's or at a Whole Foods.

I spent some time in there and the line returns were just insane.

And that's taking, you know, Whole Foods employees, in this case or Kohl's employees off the floor when they could be restocking shelves, they could be assisting customers.

And so I think this eliminates that huge, huge bottleneck of, of the retailers having to put their own teams on taking in these returns because I don't think that the, the reward was there for them.

I, I also think that, you know, from Amazon's perspective, this is great.

You have how many new stores now that customers can opt into to return things.

You get things back to the Amazon sellers, back into the marketplaces more quickly.

And for customers, it seems like this is going to be an overall better experience for them too.

They have the products that they're looking for when they go into the Save Mart stores because the stores are better stocked, they have access to associates if they need them to help them find things because they're not stuck behind an Amazon returns counter.

And it actually allows those customers to get in, grab the things that they need, the one stop shop instead of having to wait in lines or have a more cumbersome experience.

So I think it's a great ad for both parties and I'm excited to see what happens once they expand this more broadly.

You like it for both?

Wow.

Okay, wow.

Well, I love it for Amazon, I hate it for Save Mart.

I hate it Amazon.

I'm like, sure, why not?

The more locations, the better for them.

That's like a no brainer.

And putting, I think the interesting thing about this is putting these inside a grocery store has far more customer utility than saying going to a UPS store or even a Whole Foods and definitely a Kohl's.

You know, if I throw, if I want to, you know, shot fire some shots at Kohl's this morning.

But you know, for Save Mart, I just don't like it.

I think it's a short sighted effort that still takes capital and it takes the focus of your employees.

So I think it's a little naive to say like, you know, the Shademart employees don't have to do anything because if a customer's having been a store manager and worked in a store, if a customer's having a problem with that kiosk, they're going to go to the store people to help them solve it.

And that's a pain in the ass.

So you know, it's just like in Kohl's, like you're letting the rooster in the head in the, into the hen house number one, which I don't like.

And you're tying your traffic into something that has nothing to do with selling groceries and could easily be replicated by any of the other grocers with which you compete.

So in the long term it does nothing for you to differentiate yourself competitively.

So again, I'm on the stump of with this story and with Kroger, it's like where are we really focused?

What are we really trying to do?

What are we as leadership team trying to pull off to create long term differentiation?

That's why I don't like it.

I think this is distracting and it doesn't amount to anything in the long run.

You know Kohl's, at the Kohl's over the holidays they had three people assigned to Amazon returns.

I think if you have a kiosk, having one person manage it just like a self checkout still gives you an opportunity to, you know, have that person floating giving guests a one on one high touch experience.

So to me it doesn't seem like like an issue there to deploy you know a single resource that can be used for multiple things in that area.

And I think you are getting more traffic for groceries versus a Kohl's or something like that.

Like you don't need to buy something at Kohl's every day but the milk, egg and bread trip that could be accomplished while you're returning something or the, the fill in trip I think for grocery makes a lot more sense.

All right, let's go to headline number five.

Snook Markets is seeing some absolutely incredible results in preventing gift card fraud in a 10 store pilot.

According to Chain Storage, the regional grocery chain deployed the new Digimarc Corp. End to end gift card security solution in 10 Chuck stores in the St. Louis area for a 10 week period with 100% of Digimarc protected gift cards activated successfully and no reported fraud on any cards secured by digimarc.

If the scanner detected any evidence of tampering, the gift card wouldn't activate stopping fraud before it reached customers.

Scan cards with untampered watermarks activated instantly.

Specific store level results of the pilot included almost nine in ten 87% of cashiers and pilot stores said that cards protected by the digimarc solution activated as fast or faster than traditional gift cards resulting in faster checkout.

Cashiers also said they no longer needed to open complex packaging or examine gift cards for fraud, which further streamlined checkout.

No training was needed for customers at self service checkout and there was no impact to any other workflows or processes in stores or the supply chain.

Chris, what do you think of the gift card use case for invisible Watermarks?

And I love this use case.

We pride ourselves on this show of scouring the headlines each and every week and pulling out what we think is immediately applicable to everyone.

And this is one of those headlines that meets that grade 100%.

The results you mentioned, I mean they speak for themselves.

Basically zero fraud over 10 weeks.

That's just incredible.

Like that's gobsmacking.

Stop you in your tracks, digest like it's just nuts.

So, and if you want to go down a rabbit hole, listeners look up on YouTube, all the links people will go to, to, to, to, to fraud people with gift cards.

You know, and like, I remember my buddy Dave Stack telling me about, like, people put these in microwaves to get the little, like, you know, things that you scratch off to get them to peel off easily.

And then they have replacement stickers that they can put on them.

And, and that's, and then that's essentially what they do.

They get the codes, they put them back on the shelves, then they wait for some unsuspecting dupe to come in, activate the card, and then all of a sudden they steal the money.

So that's what's nuts about this.

Digimark's invisible barcode essentially works to prevent all of that type of activity from happening.

It's stellar tech and it's a stellar, stellar use case of invisible watermark technology, in my opinion.

Yeah, I think the other part too, that I'd add, I agree, Chris.

You know, they're also building on top of an existing technology that Schnooks has already invested in, which I think is a really noteworthy thing to call out here.

They're already using digimark's invisible barcodes for a lot of their bulk items.

And I think for, you know, all of the tech companies and tech partners out there listening, like, this is a great case study in how you continue to develop your existing relationship with your clients.

You listen to what their needs are.

What, what else can digimark do for their Snook client?

And here was a great example.

Where were they seeing fraud?

First it was in bulk items, now gift cards.

And they can attack this problem to the results that you were just talking about.

I mean, it's very impressive.

I think digimarc deserves a lot of kudos here for being a true partner with Schnooks to figure out, you know, how do we continue to serve the Schnooks customer and work with the Schnooks team?

And the amount of fraud, Chris, did you know, like, I was looking at this gift card fraud, almost $200 million just in the first three quarters of 2025 last year.

They don't even have the holiday numbers added into that, which I'm sure is so much more.

But this is a huge problem.

25% of fraud complaints taken by the FTC are related to gift card scams.

And they're not getting mad at Starbucks or wherever the gift card is for.

They're getting mad at the retailer who's selling them the gift card.

So I think this has just eliminated problems across the board and I think is a really, really great example of technology that's getting in and making some real bottom line changes for retailers in the industry.

Yeah, and the fact that you could potentially take that down to zero.

Right.

Nuts.

You know, I mean, the criminals will figure something out eventually, but in the short term, like, if you can get in front of this, you as a retailer can make a pretty significant impact to your bottom line pretty quickly.

So I, I love this move.

It's great.

All right, let's go to the lightning round.

Chris, question number one.

I heard this headline and had to ask you about it.

Big news from LEGO out of ces.

This week, LEGO has announced smart bricks, a computer that fits into a 2x4 brick that enables your LEGO creations to now have sound, light and motion.

And they will debut as part of their Star wars sets on March 1st.

Chris, how much of a priority will it be for you to have one of these smart bricks in your LEGO collection?

Wow.

Yeah, no, I'm not, I'm not jumping on this one, but, you know, but if LEGO wants to create a life size Darth Vader, I'm all in whenever that gets released.

So Lego, if you're listening, help a brother out, make my dreams come true.

Life size Darth Vader build kit.

That's what I want, that's what I'm dying to get.

And I would spend a ton of money on that.

I'd probably put myself into Hawk just to get that.

All right, next one.

Ashley Tisdale recently quit her toxic mom group.

This has been blowing up the headlines lately, which reportedly included several other celebrities because it ended up reminding her of high school cliques and left her feeling, quote, unquote, frozen out at a vulnerable time.

And have you ever been part of a toxic mom group?

I'm curious, have you ever felt this or experienced anything that she's describing?

No.

That sounds awful.

I would silence that text thread right away.

No, all my, my mom groups are very supportive.

I rely on them heavily.

And I, I want to say I've got a good, a good string of maybe half a dozen of them, depending on what the sport is or how we know each other and how long we've known each other.

But no, always, always great recommendations and links to products in those feeds.

I have always said if, if there was a retailer that could tap into these mom text threads, you would be billionaires, because those products go viral in, in a, in a matter of seconds after Every gathering, there's a list of several.

Several products that, that people should take advantage of.

So no, only good things, not bad.

I would immediately cut those out.

Chris, question number three.

This also made me think of you.

Lowe's home improvement stores and Cinemark theaters are doing a bring your own bucket popcorn promotion.

And anyone who brings In a Lowe's 5 gallon bucket can fill it to the brim with popcorn for free.

I have two.

A two parter.

One, would you partake in the Lowe's five gallon bucket of popcorn party?

And two, butter, salt or naked popcorn.

Where do you go?

How big?

First of all, how big is a five gallon bucket?

That sounds enormous.

It's like a utility bucket, you know, that you, like, sit on and I mean, it's big.

It's big, right?

Yeah, right.

That you put like spackling in or something, you know, like, that's kind of what I'm.

That's kind of what I'm envisioning here.

But so to answer your question, hell yes, I would bring in a five gallon bucket ant.

And to go even further, butter, 100%, multiple layers.

You got to put the butter in as you're putting the popcorn in so that it gets a nice even distribution.

And I would put enough salt on that five gallon bucket to cause me immediate hypertension.

And that's how I would answer that question.

Immediate hypertension is a requirement.

Any time I eat popcorn.

I love my salt.

I love it.

All right, this one is nuts.

And I was hoping that we get word of this by the time we recorded, but we haven't yet.

There are reports and have you been seeing this?

There are reports of a new Stranger Things episode to be released today, AKA the real finale.

So how excited would you one be if this turns out to be true?

And what grade would you give the actual finale, Previous finale, whatever you want to call it.

I don't know that I want another finale.

Oh, my God, are you kidding?

I don't think I do.

But I would obviously watch it.

I would absolutely watch it.

And you know what?

I was at the our local grocery store last night, Chris, and they were setting out like Junior Mints dots and like Charleston Chew movie theater boxes.

And I was like, maybe this is happening.

Like, all of the grocery stores got the word before everybody else did.

Could be Valentine's Day too.

It could be.

But I was really satisfied with the finale.

I don't know.

I, like, thought it.

I thought it ended in a good way where, like, not everything was perfect, but, you know, the things that Needed to.

The loose ends that needed to be tied up were.

Were tied.

So I'm.

I'm good with how it ended, but clearly you are not.

So what are you hoping for in this?

This?

Well, what I think would be the most baller move of anyone ever to do this.

Like, I think it's such a coup from a marketing perspective if they actually do it.

So it's a brilliant idea, whoever ultimately came up with it and if they execute on it.

But no, I hated the finale.

I thought the finale was like, kissing my sister.

It was like, that's it.

That's what we got here.

This is great.

Okay, fine.

But I'm going to bring Ella in on this one.

Ella?

Ella?

Have you seen Ella?

Are you a big Stranger Things fan?

Did you watch it?

What is your take on the finale, and how much would you like to see this new episode?

I would be incredibly excited if they dropped one.

I think the Duffer Brothers are brilliant, so I honestly would not be surprised if they dropped one tonight.

Were you happy with the previous finale?

Where are you?

Kind of left.

Like, I was.

We were like, yes, I see both.

Your opinions, because I'm with Anne.

I was.

I was okay with it.

Like, I was happy with.

Everyone kind of got their happy ending.

But to your point, Chris, like, so many different things could have happened, and it could have been so much better, too.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Yeah, 100%.

100%.

What did you guys want?

Like, that's.

I can't.

I still don't understand.

Like, what were the things that you felt like you wanted, like, way more.

I didn't need the first of all.

I didn't need the 40 minutes of, like, all the stuff that happens afterwards.

I was like, okay, whatever.

And then you didn't even tie up the loose ends.

Like, the.

All the dead army people at the base.

The doctor.

What is her name?

Dr. K. You have no idea what happens to her or anything.

Like, the whole thing didn't make.

I didn't understand how Elle was using her powers, but Ella, I don't know.

What do you think?

Well, I also think.

I think the ending of them ultimately killing Vecna, like, there's no way they would have killed Vecna that quickly with, like, a flamethrower and Will's powers and l. Like, there's no way they needed more.

But Winona Ryder hacked his head off, you guys.

I felt like they gave her redemption for, like, her entire life.

Winona Ryder just got to go in and Hack the head off of Vecna.

Spoiler alert for those of you.

Yeah, but did she really kill him?

That's the question that we're going to find out today.

You know, like.

Or, you know, it's the whole thing at Dream.

I don't know.

There's just so many plot holes in that episode, and I just.

The whole thing at the end where they're, like, sitting around and they're, like, talking about how they're living in different places and going to college.

I'm like, this is just weird.

I did see this might be a big stretch, but when they put the binders back on the shelf.

Yes.

It had, like, Mike.

It had all their names, it spelled out Act 2, and then they put.

The binders back and it says a.

Lie, so we didn't see that one.

It does.

Yeah.

No, there's.

I'll send you some rabbit holes on this one, too, Ella.

There's.

There's.

There's a lot of really good things that people spend a lot of time on this, so.

And if the Duffer Brothers are that brilliant, like, holy cow, like, these guys are brilliant if they actually end up doing this, because those.

I agree with you, Ella.

They're.

They're geniuses if they pull this off.

But.

All right, Ella, without further ado, what headline for you won today's show?

We got off on a good sidetrack there.

Yeah.

Well, I'm actually picking Amazon integrating instant meal shopping into Alexa.

Plus, I actually had a story over the holidays that my mom made, like, every single dish from ChatGPT, and she was so proud of it.

She calls her chatgpt Chad.

So she would be like, oh, where'd you get this?

It's like, well, Chad made it.

And, yeah, I don't know if it's something to be proud of or not, but big picture, people are wanting this streamlined process of making meals and knowing, like, when I should take it out of the oven, when I should put it in.

So I think the added step of getting groceries, too, is amazing.

My only thing is the user experience.

Like, is it going to be a simple process for someone like my mom or my nana to dive in and be able to do it?

That's my question.

Yeah.

Well, she seems to be doing it with Chad.

Chad sound like they're getting along swimmingly.

Wow, that's.

That's amazing.

Wow.

Good.

Good perspective again, as always.

All right, well, that wraps us up.

Happy birthday today to Jeremy Renner, David Caruso, and to the only man who can deliver the line for the love of Zeus's butthole, the incomparable Nicholas Cage.

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