AI Commerce Surges, Amazon Sues Perplexity & We Are Over And Out On Target 10-4 | Fast Five

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It is November 12, 2025.

I'm one of your hosts, Anne Mazinga.

And I'm Chris Walton and we are.

Here once again to discuss all the top headlines from the past week making waves in the world of omnichannel retailing.

And joining us today for their regularly scheduled monthly appearance is the AM Consumer and Retail Group's Managing Wakas Khan and Director Kelly Carey.

Welcome to both of You.

We're so excited to have you.

Kelly, I want to start with you first.

For those meeting you for the first time, will you please share with the audience a bit of your background and a bit about A and M. Kelly.

Carey, I am a director with the Consumer and Retail Group at A and M. I've been consulting with the team for about seven years and really have focused my time on all things consumer, packaged goods, beauty, helping teams think about growth, strategy and implementation.

And I think that's kind of a nice summary of A and M CRG as a whole.

We really like to help our clients work end to end.

So whether you're thinking about growth or thinking about how to optimize costs, doing a giant transformation program, we're really there to help you look at all sides of the problem and come out stronger.

So excited to be here today and talk about the headlines with you guys.

Kelly, this is not your first time on the show.

Like, how many times have you been on or have you been on so many times that you've lost count?

I'm curious.

Yeah, this is either going to be three or four, I think.

So, you know, I've got my, my little elevator pitch intro.

I've, I'm practiced.

Yeah, it's, it's an elusive club once you get to that.

Five timers.

So, yeah, there's, there's people that have been in it, but, but, but in on the opposite side of things.

We've got a first timer now, too.

Wakashi.

Yes.

Thank you.

I am a debutante, as I would.

Like to say.

So it's very happy to be here.

I'm a managing director at the CIG team.

I'm actually relatively new to A and M, but I've been in the consulting business for a long time.

My topic of interest is technology all in all its incarnations.

So I know we have some AI topics today, but it's a fun topic.

It's a fun time to be in technology.

I think it's an exciting space as well.

So we'll have some interesting conversations.

I think retailers are in for one hell of a ride for the next few years.

So happy to be here.

Yes.

Well, we're so excited to have you.

Thank you for joining us for your first time.

And now before we get in, so there's been a lot of debate, Chris, since our last podcast last week, I've been getting a lot of flack about Neo the Robot.

Have you really?

I haven't heard a single thing.

You have?

What, what is.

Well, I mean, I Mean people are, are.

Well, they're mostly in agreement, but they're like, whoa, you were really fearful.

But I'm, I'm here to double down on my fear because there are some crazy reels out there going on.

Chad Luska from the A and M community or A and M consumer and retail group sent over one that we have to check out.

I might have to post that in in the subtext for from today's podcast.

But I want to ask now that we have two people from A and M who see all kinds of things in all the work they do with their clients, Kelly and Bakash, what are you seeing and what are your thoughts about Neo the robot?

Are you in or are you out?

Kelly, I'm going to you first.

I am out on Neo.

In on where in home made services could go, oh, wow, okay.

Neo is terrifying.

Jump scare.

When I opened the Neo website, however, you know, there was a Disney Channel movie called Smart House way back in the day where like there's dishes on the counter and the home just like absorbs it into the table.

So that was always very aspirational.

I think in the future, future Neos could be better.

So the, so the humanoid component is what is really wrong.

Like you're fine with like the robots doing your lawn and like a dishwashing robot.

It's just the fact that it's like in a human form with its arms.

Yes.

Wakash, what about you?

You're the technology minded expert here.

What, what do you think of Neo, the humanoid robot?

So I'm actually cautiously optimistic.

So I would say that certainly I'm all for robots doing my lawn and I see my lawn care bill and I'm like, okay, this has to be a better way of doing this.

However, I was a little freaked out by the fact that there's a dude watching me on the other side of Neo and it's in my house.

So the whole privacy angle kind of freaks me out a little bit.

So I would say the humanoid aspect is okay.

I think the service that it performs a robot performance general, I'm definitely in.

I think it's just that remote control human is, is a little freaky right now.

So I would say I am out for the time being, but I will be in on the long term.

Fair enough.

I'm so Chris, I have no support here.

This is.

No, you don't.

Pro, Pro Neo.

I'm just going to be the only one still doing my own lawn care and dishes.

Yeah.

And laundry and cleaning the toilets because that was actually the selling point for me.

But like.

Yeah, I mean, I think Kelly's right though.

Like, there's a middle ground between room and humanoid robot that looks like it just got out of a fencing tournament, you know?

Right.

So.

So yes, there's a middle ground somewhere here where I think we could all be happy and hopefully have less housework to do.

Not to make it any more awkward, I have a. I'm an adopter of Japanese toilets.

I mean, I don't know what else to say.

It's magical, in my opinion.

And oh yes, yes, it does everything, so.

Oh wow.

I didn't even know that existed.

It's not as robotic, of course, but I think that these guys just can help.

Yeah, there's a middle ground.

There's a middle ground.

All right, well, I think we should get to the headlines.

After that fun icebreaker conversation and this week's Fast 5, we've got news on Amazon suing Perplexity Bath and Body Works, new scent campaign, Target's new 104 customer service policy, Dollar General's appointment of a new AI executive.

And of course producer Ella will stop by once again at the end of today's show to tell us which headline won the week.

But we begin today with big news surrounding generative AI commerce from Adobe ANN headline number one.

US consumers spent $88.7 billion online in the month of October, up 8.2% year over year, according to Adobe's new Adobe Analytics E commerce data for October.

Mobile drove the majority of the online spend with a 51.4% share, $45.6 billion, up 11.6% year over year compared to desktop shopping and most surprisingly, generative AI traffic.

This is the one to pay attention to, folks.

Generative AI traffic to retail sites hit a major inflection point now converting 16% better than non AI traffic sources in October of 2025.

This marks a dramatic reversal from just three months earlier when AI traffic converted 9% worse than than traditional channels.

The data, which analyzes over 1 trillion U.S. retail sites, shows AI traffic increased 1200% year over year in October.

And shoppers arriving from AI sources are now 13.6% more engaged, spending 44% longer on sites, and with 31% lower bounce rates.

Kelly, we're going to go to you first on this one.

What should the retail and CPG executives listening make of Adobe's reported higher conversion statistics from all of those people who shopped via generative AI in October?

Massive change.

Yeah, huge change.

And great question.

And I think that this is, if anything, the sign that executives are waiting for to start planning for an agentic omnichannel experience, if they haven't already.

When I heard about this headline, I was not surprised.

The magnitude of growth was certainly shocking, but also we've been seeing so many signs that this was coming both on the consumer side and on the industry leaders.

So, you know, back in the spring, our consumer sentiment survey that we run at CRG was already starting to show that 24% of consumers are strongly influenced by AI purchases.

You've had Walmart, Sam's, brands like Skims, Glossier, all these companies starting to partner with ChatGPT platform platform over the summer.

So there's just been such a move to partner with these AI platforms and start to figure out how you can have that seamless shopping experience that, you know, it seems to have clicked and now's really the time where people need to figure out how to make that work for them.

And also from a consumer angle, I think it makes sense too.

You know, digital shopping can be so overwhelming.

There's so many options, assortments are huge.

So to be able to just type in, you know, here's exactly what I'm looking for.

And have ChatGPT send you three links and that directs you right to the site.

It's so easy.

So I'm not surprised conversion has skyrocketed.

Yeah, it's really giving consumers like online the ability to get the service that they would in some of the or the specialty service they would be getting in some of those retailers too.

You know, all the confidence that ChatGPT is able to provide them in why and how it narrowed down those three options Totally.

Waqas, what do you think from a digital perspective?

You spent a lot of time in digital commerce.

How does these stats, how do they impact your thoughts about how retailers and CPG should be thinking about the future of shopping online.

Yeah, so I think we, you know, even in one of our lunch and recently we had a, we had a company founder who came and talked to us about what technology sits behind.

Some.

Of the one click buying that we see and some of the agentic buying that we see.

There is a, the current environment, even online is full of friction.

So there is even.

You have to go from one click to another to another to another if you have a profile set up.

And what you'll start to see is that even the large platform like Amazon, their homepage is cluttered with recommendations.

It's hard to tell what is sponsored, what is not sponsored.

There's A thing called relevance.

You know, how does relevance get decided?

You can imagine that for a buyer who wants something maybe sorted by price, you know, it's hard to decipher, you know, where to go.

Now the agent kind of declutters all that for you.

And now you can, you know, in our next question we'll come to it with the perplexity discussion.

It declutters all that for you.

So I can see and you get the answer that you need.

It's like the old Google times, right, where you know, you get one answer and it's, it's just so spot on that you don't want to go anywhere else.

So, so I can see the, the conversion and, and I think there's much to learn and, and I think, I think this, this is like, you cannot unring this bell.

This, this has happened.

I think we have to adapt and, and, and retailers will have to learn to, to work with generative engine optimization and many other similar situations.

Yeah, Waqas, you bring up a really good point too.

There's a headline that we covered in the Retail Daily minute this week talking about a company called Constructor that's going in and they're actually helping.

So once the generative agent of your choice has gotten you to the page, they're able to help retailers kind of deploy some technology so that you can continue that conversation with an agent versus going to the Glossier site like you mentioned, Kelly, and then having a conversation with their agent.

And so I, I think that's going to be an interesting component to this discussion too is how, you know, behaviors are changing.

So once I get perplexity directs me to that page on Glossier.

Now I have an agent that I can start to interact with with this Constructor technology that is going to help me solve other problems about that, that product at the PDP level.

So I think there's a lot that the retailers and CPGs listening need to think about when it comes to how they're preparing their own sites for some of that, who they're partnering with to help support, you know, continuing that experience for consumers.

And then, you know, how, how they're kind of rethinking this whole consumer journey to your point, because this is, isn't something you can go back on.

This is, this is the only forward motion at this point.

Chris, close us out here with your thoughts though.

What do you think that, that you would tell the, the retail and CPG executives listening about this?

Yeah, I think, I mean, I don't have much to add.

I Think the train left the station.

I'm really excited actually to talk about headline number two in terms of what is Amazon's response to whether or not they want to get on the train or not.

But you know, the experts we've been talking to have predicted this.

We had David Dorff on the show a few months ago.

He said that the holiday season would be the inflection point.

It turns out that he was correct in doing that.

So stick with us.

You'll hear all this in advance if you're an avid listener.

So we've crossed the chasm.

It's no going back.

And you know, if you step back every, every 30 years, there's a big innovation in retail and AI is that innovation.

It's the game changer.

It was E Commerce in the 90s, now it's AI and you can go back through history.

The pattern's there.

So.

So yeah, I.

There's no turning back at this point.

Which brings me to the next headline, which is.

Which is headline number two.

Amazon is suing Perplexity over its agentic shopping tool.

Wow.

Okay.

That's the response.

According to Reuters, Amazon sued Perplexity AI last Tuesday over the startup's agentic shopping feature, which uses automation to place orders for users, saying it covertly covertly accessed Amazon customer accounts and disguised automated activity as human browsing.

In the complaint, Amazon accused Perplexity's Comet AI agent of degrading customers shopping experiences and interfering with its ability to ensure customers who use the agent benefit from the tailored shopping experience Amazon curated over decades.

Based on what Wakas said, I'm curious what he thinks about Amazon's quality of curation.

Third party apps making purchases for users should operate openly and respect businesses decisions on whether to participate.

Amazon said in a statement.

Waqas is Amazon taking the right approach ensuing perplexity and attempting to thwart unauthorized bots from scraping its site.

So I think this is, this is just the first salvo in a long series of legal and otherwise challenges that I think that are bound to come up.

I think if you look at Perplexity's answer to this, I think it sheds some light on their point of view.

But I do believe that new technologies, when they come in, they do push the limits.

Perplexity has faced some challenges from the likes of Cloudflare in a prior lawsuit, but the idea really is that the engagement model of the consumer is changing.

Now Amazon on the other side, exactly as we said earlier, I think, and you were saying that Amazon has a Rufus agent of Its own.

Now my agent goes to talk to your agent and then the agents get together and figure this thing out.

There are.

It's a very cluttered space.

You want the customer to have as seamless an experience as possible.

Right now, it's full of friction.

You know, you have to think of advertising.

So there is, you know, you click on an ad and you have to go to the advertiser's website and then place another order.

If you don't have a profile set up, it's a mess.

Now for Amazon, it's actually a problem in multiple ways.

One is they've certainly developed a very large multibillion dollar ad business.

And that ad business relies on them to be able to sort of, you know, provide you recommendations and offer you certain products at a certain placement.

It's just like shelf placement, right?

So this directly threatens that business.

And I can understand that they're trying to make sure that it's done on their terms.

On the other side, what you'll also see is that there is a multitude of protocols out there.

OpenAI has its own protocol.

Google has its own shopping protocol.

There is shopping protocols from Visa, from MasterCard.

There are so many of these protocols out there that you don't know how to interact.

So even as a retailer, it's a mess for you to manage.

What kind of MCP server do you install?

How do you navigate all this?

Do you keep updating your software all the time to accommodate every new protocol that comes out?

So it's, it's a difficult space to operate.

I think Amazon's position is a bit defensive, to be honest.

If I'm a consumer, an agent that I use is representing me.

If I give the agent the right authorizations, the right passwords and everything else, I would expect that agent to go and purchase on my behalf.

I can have five things open on, on, on my website.

Amazon has had some challenges where sellers who are selling on Amazon got sort of replicated through a product that Amazon put out that looked very similar and felt very similar to them.

So even, even sellers have had some mixed experiences in the past.

So this is a messy space.

I think eventually this will settle down.

I think there will be some agreement that will be reached between the entities.

For now, Perplexity is taking a very hard position.

They've used words like, Amazon is bullying us.

They've used some challenging words there.

So I think it's a start of a long exchange that we can expect.

I would imagine that there are saner minds on the other side who are Trying to get to an agreement, but I think it's a discussion of protocols.

I think, think it'll get settled, but it will be messy until it gets settled.

Yeah.

It's interesting.

Interesting.

And I, as I think about this and Kelly, I'm gonna go to New next and I'm guessing what costs, you're gonna want to come back in too, after I say what I'm about to say.

But I think what I.

What boils down to.

We didn't even talk about the advertising implications in the first headline.

Right.

The advertisers are gonna want to go where they're converting the highest.

Right.

And so that's a big play here.

And the term that I use that I keep coming back to is first product search.

That's what's, that's what the battle is here for.

Right.

Ultimately, it's like, who gets that, that first search from the consumer?

And Amazon has always gotten that.

Now OpenAI is going after that.

So.

So the question I have for you, Kelly, is kind of, you know, if you look at the approach Amazon is actually taking here, it's kind of funny because it feels like they're now back in 1990, playing the role of the incumbent retailer who now has the threat of E commerce, and they have to decide what to do.

So they can, they can.

They're.

And they're trying, they're trying to fight the change that's coming and trying to flex their power legally to stop it.

And so you start to play this out, who stands to lose the most from this activity?

It's a hundred percent.

It's Amazon.

It's search has never been the bread and butter of Walmart.

They've just plugged into OpenAI and ChatGPT.

They've always been third banana, but they sell all the same stuff Walmart does.

So for them, there's no loss to doing that.

And all it does is hurt the first product search business of Amazon.

So if I'm Amazon, I can see the rationale of trying to dig in and fight, but I don't like how this story concludes because I think you're just trying to push water uphill.

But, Kelly, what do you think about that?

It's a great point, Chris.

You know, they have, they have a lot to lose in this in the end.

Like, if they end up winning this fight, it's, it's going to push back the progress that they're making on search and, and slow down that innovation engine, which honestly has been their bread and butter for so long.

So when competitors Enter the space.

It often has inspired them to do more and grow.

And if they're going to slow that down, I don't think it's going to work out in their favor.

Yeah, right.

Okay.

All right, so there's something there.

What cost?

What do you think?

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, this is the, you know, you said it like it's a classic technology, new technology disruption that's happening here.

And Amazon in this case is the incumbent.

So I think the answer really is that at some point the consumer demand is just not going to stop.

They will vote with their feets and clicks and eventually they will see that it's going to be a challenge for them.

So I think this seems like a knee jerk reaction or it may be a negotiation position so they want to come to a settlement.

And so, you know, many years ago I was negotiating with a software company and they came to us with $100 million lawsuit to start the negotiation.

So you can see that sometimes these actions are taken just to set it up as a play to come to a settlement that brings both parties together.

Even the perplexity CEO statement, although he starts a bit provocatively, but he ends the statement with a bit more conciliatory note that we want to talk and let's come to an agreement.

I think that's where this will head.

Yeah.

And let's also not forget that Amazon is invested in one of the big competitors, which is anthropic too.

And so if anthropic can take over, then they still win or protect themselves in here, but yet shut out their competition from giving them access to the biggest e commerce marketplace in particular in the United States.

And what do you think here, final word?

I think that's the anthropic point is a really good one, Chris.

And I think when I heard this headline, I think the lawsuit is a temporary stop, stop gap for Amazon.

And what I would really be focused on if I was Amazon is getting back like Amazon has to go to day one.

Their famous saying like you, how are you going to rethink the challenges that are upon you with these new behaviors from consumers, searching, using these agents.

And if I were Amazon, I would be looking at pushing by with prime with more agents like you know that I'm a prime member.

So if you're serving me up content and you're saying I should buy this, this product and Amazon sells it, or you know, Nespresso sells it, push me to Amazon because I can get it in two, like two days or get it faster or get, you know, have free shipping.

Like, there's, there's advantages that I think Amazon should be working on both from like an infrastructure perspective to make this simpler and to continue to push people to Amazon.

And the second thing I would say is what, you know, Wayne Purboo and Julie Hallock, who were on the podcast just last week, were talking about and I can see why Amazon is pushing shoppable video and helping provide content so that those Amazon products are showing up more frequently and more consistently with more data in those large language searches.

So that's where I'd be pushing the gas right now, not on, on lawsuits.

Because I think like you guys have all said, I think you're, you're really, you're really fighting a battle of pushing water uphill and it's not gonna, it's not going back in the bottle.

So, so yeah, I think, I think that's where my approach would be if I was Amazon right now.

All right, let's move on to headline number three.

Bath and Body Works, known for its signature holiday sense, will be bringing its smells to train stations, movie theaters and interactive kiosks inside of malls as part of its new holiday campaign.

According to retail wire, Bath and Body Works becomes the first brand ever to scent New York City's Grand Central Terminal.

With commuters encountering the aroma of fresh balsam, one of the chains three signature holiday scents in New York, Los Angeles and Chicago.

The fresh balsam fragrance will also be pumped into select theaters as movie theater goers watch the brand's new holiday ad spot.

Interactive kiosks will also pop up in 46 high traffic malls, inviting shoppers to explore all three of Bath and Body Works holiday scents.

Kelly, our beauty expert on the podcast, what do you think here?

Bath and Body Works new scented holiday campaigns.

What do you think about those and do they pass your smell test for good holiday marketing?

Awesome.

I'm gonna say I know next month is your guys best of the year podcast, but this definitely passed the smell test for me.

I think this is my favorite marketing campaign of the year so far.

What.

I am all about this.

So a couple of reasons why I love this.

First, I think it is such a genius way to create brand awareness especially for Bath and Body Works for the fact that we are living in a fragrance market right now.

Fragrance is is top growing category in beauty and it's a barbell market.

So you have a ton of growth in ultra luxe and premium.

But actually the Bath and Body Works math segment is also doing really well.

Like yeah, Myths are taking off.

That category is doing awesome.

But I personally haven't shopped at Bath and Body Works since I was in like middle school and buying the cherry blossom sent by like the boatload.

So I think you have, you know, they're in the right space, but maybe they've lost some of that awareness.

So I just think that using that actual product, the scent that people are going to buy in a marketing campaign in these high traffic locations that have this holiday heritage at the right time for holiday is an opportunity, an awesome idea.

You know, everyone's getting ready to stack up on those holiday candles.

Like, it just, it hits timing, it hits awareness.

I think they're gonna get traffic downstream to site and store.

I love the Grand Central location choice.

I love it.

Okay, Kelly, I have a follow up question for you.

Yes.

Okay.

Do you feel now Grand Central Station not always the best smelling place on the planet?

I can attest to that personally.

Balsam for probably better, but probably better than what the alternative is.

But do you, how do you think though, consumers are going to respond to this being piped in versus like opting in?

Does that have any sort of like, I don't know, does that change your opinions on this?

Like if I'm in a movie theater and now it's being like, pop, just thrown into my experience, you're not giving them the option to elect into that.

Like some of the kiosks are like, how do you.

What are your thoughts about that?

Yeah, movie theater is maybe a little bit more of an odd choice because that is really like, you know, not a place you go intending to have this fragrance thrust upon you.

Again, if you're going to like a Christmas showing, like, oh, let's go see White Christmas Replay.

Maybe not like the new Running man movie, but I think Grand Central.

I.

Don'T have a big issue with the often in a place like Grand Central where you likely have a lot of holiday decor going up and there's, you know, it's New York at the holiday season.

Yeah.

And I think there are a lot of brands who've been doing that for a long time, granted, in their four wall box.

So there is an often you're going into store.

Right.

You can leave there.

Yes.

Okay.

That's good.

That's good.

That's good.

Clarifier.

Chris, what do you think about this?

I mean, I just, I just think it's smart marketing.

You know, the fact that we're all talking about it means it's probably good.

I'm surprised that Kelly thinks It's like the best marketing effort of the year, you know, for me.

I got to give that.

I got to give a shout out to Pizza Hut.

Did you see what Pizza Hut did last week?

The Six Campaign?

November 6th and 7th, you get Buffalo wings for 67 cents.

So I'm just saying that mainly because my kids are gonna love that.

I'm talking about that.

But that's my winner.

But, yeah, I mean, from a marketing standpoint, and you know, I think it's smart.

It's getting us talking about it, it's getting people talking about it.

And Kelly's point, too, you can hit high traffic locations with sense, which is at least going to create some awareness, hopefully more so than, you know, than usual for.

For the brand.

So, yeah, I like it.

Well, cast, what are your thoughts here?

I would defer to Kelly on this one.

I have no opinions.

I would.

I mean, I go through Grand Central Station every day when I going into the city, so that part doesn't sound too bad.

I think the theater part, I agree.

I think it's a little.

Yeah, it may be a little much.

All right, headline number four.

This is my kind of the one that hits closest to home for Anna and I today.

Target has instituted a new policy that requires employees who are within 10ft of customers to smile, make eye contact, wave, and use friendly, approachable, and welcoming body language.

Huh.

I didn't even think about that until just now.

According to USA Today, if staff members are within 4ft of customers, they must personally greet guests, smile, and indicate a warm, helpful interaction.

The requirements are part of a program called Ten four.

The program is one way Target is trying to elevate the shopping experience.

The company did not say, however, when the policy will go into effect or whether employees will be reprimanded if they don't abide by the policy.

All right, Kelly, are you 10 for good buddy or 10 for over and out on Target's new in store service policy?

I think I'm over and out on this one.

Thank you.

I am actually going to say I'm firmly over and out on this.

Firmly over and out.

Wow.

Okay.

Yeah, I was not expecting that.

All right, why?

Obviously, I encourage all store associates to be friendly and helpful.

So it's not that I'm anti being friendly and helpful, but it just, it feels very forced and performative to have this, like, measured distance rule of interaction.

And I think for Target too, when.

When people go into a Target, they're not looking for this boutique guided shopping experience.

You know, you're you're either going in on a mission and you want to do your shopping and get out, or you are browsing.

But like it's, it's that treasure hunt.

You want to explore and, and find things on your own time.

I, I feel that having someone kind of in your face and guiding you through the store is, is not the model that they've been so successful with.

So it feels very awkward to me.

Wow.

Interesting.

Wow.

How the brand has changed too.

If you step back and think about what Kelly just said.

All right, and what do you think?

Do you agree with Kelly?

Do you, Are you, are you ten?

Four over and out.

Are you ten for Good Buddy on this one?

I, I don't know which, which place I land.

I think I'm, I'm more 10 for a good Buddy on it because I have a 15 year old entering the job market and they need explicit direction on what to do in a store.

Like more so than I can explain.

So I think if you are, if you do have a policy that you want to enact, like many retailers do, you need to be very specific on what your expectations are.

And I, and I think that it's coming at a time, especially during the holidays, where people do need more assistance than normal or throughout the rest of the year with finding products or trying to get a lot of things accomplished while they're at your store.

And second, I would say it does feel in my, you know, anecdotally, in my experience being in a Target, that a lot of the people that you see are very focused on fulfilling those curbside orders and so they're driving the car.

Like that seems to be the focus of the employees that I see in the store.

So I do think it would be helpful to remind them that you're also serving the customer that's standing right next to you as you're grabbing those groceries off the shelf and putting them in that cart.

So I'm not opposed to it.

I think that the media is kind of taking this off as like Target.

How dare you.

Because, you know, you're not building morale and this is being very specific.

But in this job market, with the types of people that are starting their careers at a retailer, mass retailer, like a Target, I'm, I'm not against giving very direct instruction of what the expectation is of you, of an employee, but.

Let me put you there.

That could be me.

Yeah, yeah.

Do you, but do you think this is explicit instruction?

Do you think the, the 10 and 4ft parameters are explicit or are those actually more confusing in the long run, when you get right down to it.

I mean, I, again, like, I'm dealing with a 15 year old who, yes, I would need to show him.

This is 10ft, this is 4ft.

This is what you need to do in X, Y and Z scenarios.

And, and again, like I, the job market's tough right now.

It's hard to get labor that can work in your stores that are invested in doing this.

So I guess I think it depends on the training.

Chris, to be honest.

Like, I think if.

Is that a one time thing or are they, you know, they're not going to have you pull the tape measure out from people and walk through the store.

So I guess that's my question.

It's, you know, how are they going to follow through with it then?

And what, you know, how.

I don't know.

Yeah.

And how do you monitor it?

You know, if you don't see somebody doing it, like, is the guy like, well, he was, he was in 11ft of me.

He was, you know, he was 15ft away from me.

I'm not expected to do it when I'm doing that.

Right.

Yeah, right.

That's why, that's a good point.

I think there's a lot of worms.

You know, this opens a big can of worms like this, this.

I'm with Kelly, man, I'm over and out on this.

And I'm a former store manager so I, I hired, I hired like, like thousands of these people.

I oversaw thousands of employees across the Target store base.

And so, you know, when I step back from it, I think it's crazy that when I was there it was culturally accepted.

Culturally accepted that if you cross paths with a guest, we didn't even have to train them.

It's just like the way it was expected that it be done.

And this is why I made the point with Kelly.

Like, look how far things have come in 10 years.

It was expected that we would ask, can I help you find something?

There was no ambiguity, no rules about footage, just the expectation that was culturally accepted.

And this new concept like that, it feels like, here's the other point about this that I think is important.

It feels like such an operator mentality of how you would try to solve this problem, which their new CEO is an operator, he's not a service person, he's not spent time in the stores.

And so like, okay, 10ft.

But like, yeah, like how am I going to police that?

Like now, you know, what's the parameters?

I'm going to do that.

So I just don't get it.

It.

And it tells me, more importantly, the other reason I don't like it.

It's.

Or the other thing I don't like about it is it tells me that the culture is going to be very, very hard to get back in the stores, because why would you need to reinvent the wheel in the first place if it.

If it had just continued the way it was?

But all that left during the pandemic?

And so, like, I'm just like, why can't you just go back to the practice that you had to begin with?

Like, what's so hard about that?

Why.

Why is that gone?

And why do you have to do this?

So that tells me that there's more broken here, and I think it's just going to cause more confusion and aggravation in the long run.

But wakas, what do you say here?

So we're kind of.

We're.

We kind of got a split decision going on.

On this one.

Are you good?

Are you over and out or good buddy?

On this one, I think I am leaning over and out.

I'm not leaning good buddy here.

And this may just be a reaction to just reading the headline.

Initially, it reminded me of a movie, an old Owen Wilson movie, I think.

Idiocracy.

Idiocity or something like that.

Okay.

Oh, Idiocracy.

The whole world right now will cost.

I feel like that is a great example of what it should just be called.

20, 25.

Yes, agreed.

Okay.

So.

So in that movie, they walk into a Costco.

I believe it's Costco.

And.

And there's a guy standing there say, welcome to Costco.

I love you.

And.

And then the next guy comes in, welcome to Costco.

I love you.

And this just goes on and on and on.

It just felt so contrived.

You know, of course, they were over the top making the point, but I. Chris, I really like your point that I think it's this stuff that's, you know, you.

You immerse in the culture, and you would just do it naturally if you have to police it.

And, you know, while I have teenagers as well, so I. I'm very sympathetic to the.

The specificity of instructions, but I think eventually they will learn and understand exactly how to operationalize this.

My fear is that, you know, this.

This.

This foot measurement, you know, almost gives people a pass that.

Let's not get, you know, within 10ft of anybody.

And then it just feels a little awkward.

Oh, my God.

I didn't even think about that part of it.

Yeah, right.

Oh, all right.

Let's move on to headline number five.

You guys.

$ General has named Travis Nixon as its senior Vice President of Artificial intelligence.

According to Retail Dive, Nixon is tasked with leading Dollar General's quote, business process management initiatives, end quote.

By using AI to promote optimization across areas such as supply chain, store operations and merchandising.

Nixon most recently served as the head of AI for Dropbox's security division and previously held other leadership roles at Meta and Microsoft.

Wakas how long before every retailer has a chief AI officer?

So before I answer this AI question, I'd like to remind all of us about another trend.

A few years ago, it was called the Chief Digital Officer, and a whole bunch of companies went out and there's some statistics about more than half the companies at one point had a Chief Digital officer.

And now if you look back, you'll discover that very few companies have those roles left.

And usually if either those roles are tacked onto somebody's other responsibility.

So you'll be, you know, you're the chief merchant plus the chief Digital Officer or your CIO and the chief.

So there's.

So it's because the problem with these standalone roles is that these individuals are dependent on other executives, other business partners, to actually deliver on what they're promising.

They don't own the infrastructure, they don't own the application, they don't own the store operations.

So for each one of them to have an impact, they need to work with somebody else.

And as they do that, they find that it's harder to do than before.

There was a report that was published by, a few years ago, I want to say, by a World Economic Forum, and they took the CDO title and they said, okay, you know, by the way, the lifespan of a CDO was less than two years eventually.

So they call it.

So they start with the chief dazzling officer, then this person becomes a chief disconnected officer, then this person becomes a chief depressed officer, and then they exit the company.

So I don't want to say that AI will go through the same cycle, but I think we have to be careful because AI will become part of the business.

It has to be in the business.

So everybody has to be aware of AI.

Everybody has to be, you know, receptive to the technology ideas that are coming through it and sort of permeating the business.

That's how this will last.

I think we are going through a phase in which these roles will be effective.

I think they'll raise awareness.

I think they'll.

And eventually these roles will get absorbed inside the organization.

Your chief Merchant has to know how to plan using AI.

You know, the merchandising planning has to be enabled by AI and the merchant who is responsible for it will do it naturally.

So the standalone drone exists until it becomes, quote unquote, a transformation job.

And at some point it goes away.

So that's my sense that I think it'll be fashionable and effective for a period of time, but I don't see this lasting for more than five years.

Yeah, that's a really interesting point of view.

Akash.

Chris, how do you feel about this?

I mean, do you think that then should companies be hiring this role?

Should they be using consultants to come in and be the chief AI officer to kind of embed what that those practices, those AI practices across the organization like Wakash is talking about?

Well, and this is why I love doing this show, because I never know when I'm going to learn something that I've never, ever thought about.

And Wakash just totally nailed it for me because he's 100% right.

And so if I ever get asked this question again, I'm going to say what he said that and what I think.

And the reason I say that is I think Dollar General listening to Wakash is taking the right approach.

They're making him an svp.

They're not giving him the Chief officer title like we saw from Lululemon when we talked about Lululemon doing this a few months ago.

Because he's right.

They're going to be on an island.

And you have to have the support of someone in that C suite that's overseeing you to help you get the work done that you need to get done to create the transformation in the organization that needs to happen.

And so that's the right approach, and it's probably putting it in the hands.

So the key thing to me is actually, who in the C suite deserves the responsibility for overseeing the AI and overseeing that person?

That's the key question.

And who's going to be the one most equipped to do that?

And then you have to ask yourself, do I have that right person in my C suite?

Because if I don't, then I probably need to make a change and still make a hire, too.

So that's, that's the.

And I've got.

I thank you, Wakash, because I've never thought about that.

And I think you're dead right.

That's exactly the way you got to approach this.

Otherwise you're going to see the situation like you described before.

Yeah, Kelly, how, how do you Think about this.

Yeah, I would really echo a lot of what Wakash shared.

I think from a leadership standpoint, maybe there's a temporary period of CIAI titles popping up, but really what's going to be important is every functional area of the business needs to figure out how they can apply AI to their own space.

Whether it's, you know, back office becoming more efficient, you know, there are just hundreds and hundreds of applications that can be used.

And then of course there's the forward facing consumer end.

So it needs to be embedded across the whole business.

So maybe it's not even a C level role, but some kind of guiding principles how we think about AI.

You know, educating organization on capabilities and even like letting SMEs arise in each of the different functional areas so they can figure out how to deploy within their teams more from just an operational standpoint will be really important in the next few years.

But I, I don't see it becoming a long term leadership function because it, you know, it's even almost a channel at this point.

So you, you don't have a separate Chief Retail Officer, chief ECOM Office AI Officer, and it needs to be integrated.

When I look back at my career too, and I think about how, you know, retailers approach the E commerce transformation, to Wakasha's point, they siloed it off and had they instead said, okay, digital is now the responsibility of the chief merchant, would the industry have transformed faster if more people had taken that approach?

My hunch is yes, they would.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I mean, I think, I think it goes back to what we were talking about for me at least two weeks ago when all the layoffs happened.

We have not done a restructuring yet at companies that resemble the impact that AI is having on how work is done and the right combination of leadership and teams that we need in order to support working in this way.

And I, so I think whether that's an internal person or that's an external, you know, consulting group that is coming in, bringing your teams up to speed and educating them on how to deploy AI in their various areas.

I think the most important qualifications of this person is going to be getting the teams to think together or creating like you're saying, Kelly, that a group of SMEs or even, you know, it goes back to the days of, of like what are these, these teams that are kind of trying to accomplish one task and who's the collective group of people who can help, help kind of set up a plan that doesn't break it down by silos.

Like you're talking about Chris, and really is trying to think about how are we making decisions as an organization together using this technology that can continue to fuel the growth of our organization.

And I think that's, that's something that a lot of the retailers right now are dealing with and I think are going to continue to, to make some, some missteps, make some mistakes.

They're going to have to let people go and hire people back in order to kind of figure out what the right mix is, is to be successful here.

All right, let's go into the lightning round.

Question number one goes to you, Kelly.

According to an Incogni survey, 78 of U.S. shoppers are ready to swap their personal information for perks this holiday season.

Which retailer would you give all of your information to in exchange for a healthy discount this holiday, Kelly?

I would have to go Ulta Beauty on this one.

I have, have three sisters, a mom, a mother in law, a sister in law, and I'm in gift exchanges with like three groups of girls.

So I have a lot of females to gift for and would love it.

An all ticket discount.

Oh my gosh.

That's a great one.

Just forever, like for and for a personal reason and for gifting.

I love it.

Oh, my God.

Wow.

How did your father survive high school?

Oh my God.

That would have been crazy.

Wow.

He coached rugby.

He coached rugby.

That's awesome.

That's awesome.

He had an outlet.

Wow, that's great.

Fair play to him.

All right.

Well, guys, I'm, I, I never know when I picked these questions, but it sounds like you might be a little bit of a movie guy, so I'm excited about this one.

So Andy Garcia says he is reprising his role for Ocean's 14.

What is your favorite Andy Garcia film?

I, I think it's an old one of his movies.

I know he was in, in Godfather as well, but I don't like the Godfather role.

But like, I'm an old, old time Godfather guy.

There's a movie called Things to Do in Denver when youn're Dead.

Yes, I just saw that.

Yes, I really like that.

It's a little odd choice, but you know, he's kind of like this gangster guy who's trying to mend his ways and.

But it's, it's a great movie in my opinion.

All right, great drop because you get question number three as well.

According to an Ingenico study, middle aged men over 40 will be the biggest spenders this holiday.

Where do you anticipate you will be Spending most of your holiday budget this year?

My dishwasher broke yesterday.

Neo.

You're buying Neo.

Yes.

$20,000 down the drain.

There you go.

So that is where I'm spending and my wife and I are arguing about, you know, she wants to buy another German one and I'm like, hey, the Korean seem like, nice.

Why not?

So we'll see, right?

All right, last one.

The Wall Street Journal, Kelly, reported on Monday that Italian made pasta could soon disappear from US Grocery store shelves.

Yes.

That is an actually reported headline, folks.

Which type of pasta would you miss the most?

Kelly, this one brings me a lot of sadness as a avid pasta eater.

Okay.

Brand wise, I would say the checko, which is those.

The blue box.

Yeah.

From Italy.

Noodle.

Noodle wise, probably Rigatoni.

I know there's American versions of rigatoni.

Like you could get it from someone here, but it's so much better from the Italian brands.

Rigatoni, that's a tough one.

And what would you.

What would you.

What would you most not want to go away if you had to?

Of all the pastas on the shelves.

Oh, pappardelli.

That's my favorite.

Yeah.

I feel like there are a few really great Italian.

Italian manufacturers of specialty because it's not.

It's probably break.

The breakage and throwaway cost is probably through the roof because of that noodle.

But.

Yeah.

Right.

So good.

Right?

Right.

Nice.

Can't find it.

Wow.

I have not found it at a single grocery store near me, but I know that Checo has one.

Oh, maybe.

Maybe that's why.

What's your favorite pasta before we, before we close it up.

Up.

I. I'm relatively simple on that one.

I just like spaghetti.

Spaghetti.

Okay.

And spaghetti.

Spaghetti and meatballs I can have any day of the week.

So just with the green sauce, not the red one.

So.

So that's.

That's the only twist.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

Spaghetti Andy Garcia and Korean dishwashers.

That's what we learned about you today.

All right.

That's a trifecta.

All right.

Today's podcast was produced with the help and support of Ella Seward.

Ella, come on in here and tell us which headline as our resident Gen Z, what today's show for you?

Well, you guys this week had some really good headlines.

It was really hard to pick just one.

Kelly, your insights on Bath and Body almost convinced me to switch my answer, but I have to stick with the Adobe data and the Adobe insights.

It was just really, really fascinating.

ChatGPT has been like my best friend.

We've been through so much together, but I feel like I owe it to Chat and AI to say that they won this week.

Adobe Insights.

Okay.

Have you used it to shop?

I'm curious, have you used.

Have you, have you started shopping through ChatGPT yet?

I don't know.

I don't know if I've fully started shopping through AI knowingly, but of course, like, I'll be looking on Pinterest and looking up trendy outfit inspo, or I'm searching Google and that AI Gemini bot pops up and tells me to look at these boots, right?

So of course I'm going to click on those and look at the reviews.

But I think ChatGPT and AI, it's really become this, like, seamless, normal process.

Like I'm in Target asking my chatgpt through my voice text what's in a pasta salad?

Like, it's getting way too creepy and normal.

So I can definitely see myself diving in, searching through AI in the future, for sure.

I was going to say the Google listeners are going to love the Gemini drop in there and Google Shopping drop in there.

That's good for them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, so basically you're like on the edge of adopting.

You're not quite like Starbucks delivery usage yet like you were last week, but you're on the cusp of trying this out.

That's what you're.

That's what you're telling us, right, Ella?

Yep, exactly.

It's kind of woven into how I browse, like creeping in in a good way.

So, yes, I can see myself using this in the future.

Awesome.

All right, well, that wraps us up.

Happy birthday today to Anne Hathaway, Megan Mullally, and to the man my wife would leave me for if given the opportunity.

And I would applaud her vociferously.

Vociferously for doing so.

Ryan Gosling.

And remember, if you can only read or listen to one retail blog in the business, make it Omnitok, the only retail media outlet run by two former executives from a current top 10 US retailer.

Our Fast Five podcast is the quickest, fastest rundown of all the week's top news and our daily newsletter, the Retail Daily Mail Minute, tells you all you need to know each day to stay on top of your game as a retail executive and also regularly features special content that is exclusive to us and that Ann and I take a lot of pride in doing just for you, Kelly.

If people want to get in touch with either one of you, pick your brains.

Get some consulting advice from the A and M Consumer and Retail Group.

What's the best way for them to do that?

Yeah, absolutely.

Feel free to reach out to Waqas or I on LinkedIn.

And if you want to get in touch with the consumer Consumer and Retail Group, you can find us at Alvarez and marcel.comcrg or on LinkedIn alvaroz en Marcel Consumer and Retail Group well, thanks.

To both of you for guest hosting with us today.

And thanks as always to all of you for listening in.

And please remember to like and leave us a review wherever you happen to listen to your podcast or on YouTube.

You can follow us today by simply going to YouTube.com omnitalk retail.

So until next week, on behalf of our friends at the end, a Consumer and Retail Group and myself, producer Ella.

As always, be careful out there.