A Target Turnaround(?), CPK Kiosks & JCP Picks A Fight With Off-Price | Fast Five

Hello and welcome to this Week's Omnitalk Retail Fast 5, brought to you by the Omnitalk retail podcast network.

One of the things I love about recording this show every week is the range of topics that we get to cover.

And they are all important this week in their own right.

This week's guest host, Joe Laszlo of Shop Talk fame and I discuss everything from how fast we need our power tools to whether a noted national chain restaurant really needs its in restaurant dining experience.

Producer Ella let's get to today's show.

People go to Target these days because they have to.

And, and I think Target wants people to go to Target because they want to.

The US Consumer appetite is already moving to sub one hour, let alone three.

If you're still talking about next day, the train's already left the station.

In July of 1975, everybody was talking about the Sears catalog.

If this tech is that slick, are we going to see other brands follow suit and go in this direction?

I give them credit for something that's likely to get some attention social.

It's also a good representation of a company willing to go out and disrupt itself potentially before somebody else does.

Joe Laszlo, how long has it been since you last joined us for the Fast5?

It's been a while, Chris.

Maybe before Shop Talk in March.

So like February.

It might have been a year ago, though at this point.

Too long.

It's a joy.

Thank you for having me.

Too long.

Too long.

Yes.

I always love when you join us.

It's always fun.

So Joe, you're that.

And for those maybe that aren't familiar with Joe, you're the, you know, us head of content and insights for Shop Talk.

And my hunch is, Joe, my hunch is you're a little busy right now.

Is, is that an understatement?

It's a slight understatement.

I think while everybody else is taking off for their end of summer holidays, the Shop Talk team is very busy because we have not one, but two conferences coming up in September.

Grocery Shop in Vegas and Shop Talk Fall coming up in Nashville.

Yeah, Shop Talk Fall.

Shop Fall.

This is what, its third year, correct?

Third year in Nashville.

So what, what, what, what, what, what can we expect?

What can the audience expect?

What can the conference goers expect?

And Joe, what are you excited about too?

I'm curious.

Sure.

Absolutely.

So it's the third time we're doing a Shop Talk fall, but the first time in Nashville.

And I think the move from Chicago, its former home to Nashville, is just, I think it's it's awakened a lot of excitement about the show.

I think.

I think this year more than most, everybody has their eye on the year to come, 2027 and what that's going to hold for the industry.

And so I think having a touch point where the leaders of the best and brightest retailers and brands get together to share their insights, discuss what's in their crystal balls is going to be really, really valuable this year.

I think in terms of what I'm excited about, we are trying some new things.

We are building an agenda around a theme around retail Unplugged, partly because Nashville and music kind of felt like it is timely, but partly too because, you know, I think a lot of times you go to a show and everything on stage sounds, metaphorically speaking, like it's been auto tuned to within an inch of its life.

Like everything is very PR polished and perfect.

And I've been telling all of our speakers from our keynote stage down through our workshop rooms that we really want the acoustic set.

Tell it like it is.

Be honest, be open, be country.

And so hopefully you'll hear some of that unpolished but authentic and valuable insight across our stages.

That sounds great, Joe.

So should I bring my acoustic guitar when I'm on stage, Joe, just to like, you know, play up the whole atmosphere of the unplugged idea.

One of our speakers has asked if he can do his speech set to music with his guitar.

I've gently told him, oh my God, probably not.

I do not think we're going to go that far into the music theme.

I've joked about doing Shop Talk the musical someday, but I don't think we're there yet.

It's all going to be spoken word, but we will probably have a live band playing people onto our stage on the main stage.

That'll be kind of fun.

Oh wow, that's a cool little tease.

That's great.

Yeah.

Me singing on stage isn't good for anyone, Joe.

Although the shop talked to musical idea, I like that idea a lot.

You and I might need to talk about that after all.

Right, Joe?

Well, let's get to this week's show, which is of course brought to you with the help and support of the A and M consumer and retail group, Miracle Corso, Ocampo Capital, Voloc and RNS Logistics.

In this week's Fast 5, we've got news on Home Depot rolling out express delivery in 3 hours or less across the entire US JCPenney taking direct aim at off price stores with its new retail regret ad campaign.

California Pizza Kitchen deploying up to 1,000 automated pizza kiosks nationwide.

Yes, 1,000 automated pizza kiosks and Ann Taylor staging a brand comeback via substack and a fall fashion blitz.

But we begin today with encouraging news out of Target.

Headline number one is of course brought to you all with the help and support of the A and M Consumer and Retail Group.

B M Consumer and Retail Group is a management consulting firm that tackles the most complex challenges and advances its clients, people and communities toward their maximum potential.

CRG brings the experienced tools and operator like pragmatism to help retailers and consumer products companies be on the right side of disruption.

All right Joe, here we go.

Number one.

According to the Wall Street Journal, Target raised its full year sales and earnings forecast for the second time this year with fiscal second quarter comparable sales up 3.8% which was well ahead of Wall Street's 2 1/2% estimate.

The sales growth was powered by a 3.6% rise in traffic and an 8.7% jump in digital comparable sales as shoppers as shoppers I should say opted for same day Delivery.

Target's fiscal second quarter results also included a $752 million boost to net earnings or $1.65 per share from tariff refunds.

And the company hiked its full fiscal year outlook due to both stronger sales trends and the one time boost to its bottom line.

CEO Michael Fidelke told reporters, quote, we're encouraged by the progress made so far and we're also clear eyed about the important work still ahead, end quote.

While still cautioning that we quote, have much more work to do, end quote.

Joe, Target coming off back to back strong quarters and and it just raised guidance for the second time this year in dissecting Target's results.

What should the retailer be encouraged about and where indeed is there still more work to do as CEO Michael Fidelke.

Alludes to, I think there's a few really good signs in Target's numbers above and beyond the tariff refund which has kind of helped a whole bunch of retailers out this this past quarter and it kind of can't really count it towards long term growth prospects.

But you made the point about Same day Chris.

25% Growth in same day delivery for kind of says that, you know those, those everyday essentials that people really need.

People are turning to Target more and more in on the E commerce front.

Their store comps not as good as their digital comps but still up 2.7%.

So still up more than Wall street was expecting which kind of suggests that some of the hard work that Target has been doing to make stores more inviting to improve the way that they're merchandised may be starting to pay off in a small incremental way.

But I, I'd say that's probably where Target knows it still has some work to do.

They've already made great progress as far as the store grocery part of the business.

The fun 101 part of the business.

Games seems to be a standout for them this quarter.

And, and I think there's exciting things to come around Beauty as they kind of swap out Ulta and start building their own thing.

But I think that that'll be a big piece of work ahead of them is continuing to make the beauty offering really attractive to those shoppers.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

Joe, I, this is an interesting one for me.

I think on the positive side you first of all you got to give Target credit for the trend line.

The trend line is strong.

The two year stack was positive.

If you look at last year's Q2, they were down 1.9%.

So net net they're positive growth over two years.

So that, so that's, that's really good.

There are a few negatives though that I would call out.

One of which is one you mentioned which is digital is still slow.

To me at 8.7%.

That's still a, that's still a slow marker of growth.

Especially when you're also touting a 30% increase in same day and next day.

I find the inclusion of and next day interesting in that statistic because while that 30% might sound big, it might actually be too slow if you look at the same day growth in comparison to Walmart and Target.

So digital to me should be growing faster than it is.

The other point I'd bring up too is, you know, how sustainable is this growth pattern that they're seeing?

You've talked about it, Joe.

They've talked about it.

They've talked about the merchandising changes.

They've talked about the new in store assortments.

Well, with new in store assortments comes better inventory position because your inventory is coming in up front.

We know the in stocks have been bad.

So how much of that comp growth is just to having inventory in a way that you didn't have before?

And will you, will you be able to sustain that and grow it year over year?

Which brings me to my last point Joe, which I'm still a little bit negative on their strategy.

It just felt, I read through their earnings report.

It just feels like generic category repositioning are their strategy, which I've been saying over and over again isn't enough.

Target needs another hook, something new, something inventive, something bold.

And I'm just not seeing it in how they're talking about the business.

But I don't know.

Joe, what do you think?

I agree with pretty much everything you just said, Chris.

I, I think Target's definitely still got a lot of challenges ahead of it.

I think Target has said at the C suite level a lot of good things about what it needs to do.

I think it knows what it needs to do.

But I think, you know, we'll continue to have to wait and see how that translates down to the level of individual stores.

I think there are some positive signs, like you said, but they definitely not in a position of resting on their laurels yet.

And that, that, that question of like, you know, kind of needing something special, something really differentiated.

I think that's a challenge that all retail faces these days, right when, when people could just sit on their couch and scroll social media.

What gets them off their couch and going into stores?

And I think, you know, another way of phrasing what you were talking about is like, I think Target people go to Target these days because they have to.

And I think Target wants people to go to Target because they want to.

And that, that shift from a, have to have to visit store to pick up stuff that's a chore to the want to visit store to see what's new in the assortment, what's exciting, what isn't somebody planning to buy when they go.

That's what we'll have to keep an eye on for the next couple of quarterly earnings from them.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I know too that their SVP of food and beverage, John Collins, going to be at grocery shop too.

And I'm looking forward to meeting him.

He's an old colleague, old friend of mine.

And yeah, they've been taking a definitive approach in grocery, particularly to add newness, add items that you wouldn't find in your average run of the mill supermarket.

And so we'll see if that pays off here in the long run to continue to drive traffic.

But the store side numbers, I will say this, everyone, as hard as I've been on Target, the store side numbers are encouraging.

It's just a question of can they keep it up and do they have the strategy in the long term to be sustainable.

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All right, headline number two Home Depot has rolled out Is its express delivery service nationwide promising thousands of pro and DIY items in three hours or less and often under an hour for a flat $7 to $10 fee with no membership required?

According to Supply Chain Dive, the Service uses Home Depot's supply chain network alongside more than 2,000 U.S. stores as fulfillment hubs.

Pro and DIY customers can use the delivery service for the fee in most major markets and a $10 flat fee in Los Ang with no subscription or membership required.

Eligibility covers thousands of SKUs, including plumbing, hardware, paint and tools visible on product pages and in the cart at checkout.

EVP of Interconnected Retail Interesting title, Jordan Brogy said on the company's August 18th earnings call.

Quote now the majority of those deliveries are actually happening in less than one hour and that Home Depot will, quote, continue to work that promised time down to customers in the months ahead.

End quote.

Joe, are you surprised at all by Home Depot's push for sub 3 hour delivery or do you think they are smartly trying to stay ahead of where the Home Depot shopper is taking them?

Home Depot has been working on this for a while now.

In the run up to Shop Talk fall last year they announced that they were going to be investing significantly in faster fulfillment and delivery.

Anne Marie Campbell from Home Depot was on our stage in Chicago last year talking about why they're doing that and I think she said it was very much listening to the customer and seeing an opportunity to serve a need that currently wasn't being met very well.

That said, I mean I think for the category there's there's two kinds of reasons why people go to a Home Depot, right?

There's, there's things that are long planned like a renovation project where you don't really have like that that short time horizon when you absolutely need something.

But then there's there's the moments when something breaks when you really do kind of have an emergency repair around the house.

And I think you know whether whether an hour delivery is sort of optimal or you know, kind of that that within three hour window works.

I think e I see that Home Depot leaning into serving that need and I think, you know, they've been testing it for a year.

The fact that, that it's tested well enough that they're rolling it out nationwide kind of says to me that they're, they're, they're really smart and if there wasn't demand for it, they probably wouldn't be doing it.

So I give them the benefit of the doubt on that that they're really kind of serving a need here and have figured out the economics to make it work at that price point.

Yeah, no, I think it's a smart move.

I mean I've told this story on the podcast before about needing a toilet snake very quickly and having to go to Walmart because of how quickly they could get it to me.

But because you know Joe, at the end of the day the universal truth is that people want things fast and the US consumer appetite is already moving to sub one hour, let alone three.

And I mentioned it in the last headline to a Target.

This is why I kind of ding Target on that one because this is where things are going.

If you're still talking about next day, you're kind of the train's already left the station because we've seen it month over month in the particularly in the brick meets click data which is primarily around grocery but the growth, the grocery growth in ultra fast delivery is through the charts right now.

And now Joe, as you kind of alluded to, is home improvement the same as grocery?

No.

But who's to say it won't be more like it in the long run as far as consumer expectations go as Amazon and Walmart continue to set the expectation for things.

And so when I step back, the thing I say to myself, and that's where I give Home Depot's leadership a lot of kudos, is you know, there's more risk in being wrong and not preparing for a faster home improvement consumer expectation than there is benefit in being right and not moving in that direction.

That's, that's what I think, Joe.

Yeah.

And I certainly think there's a lot of opportunity to be thoughtful and careful about just the logistics and, and the costs of investing in faster delivery.

And I certainly Home Depot's store footprint being to fulfill from, from stores as opposed to centralized purpose built distribution centers or something like that is going to give them an advantage.

And, and I guess I'd also say there's, there's also clearly competitive pressure.

Lowe's Lowe's in its earnings report last week also talked about its faster fulfillment and delivery capabilities being a big driver to its substantial growth in in e commerce business for, for the past quarter.

So I think, I think both of the, the home improvement giants are kind of seeing this opportunity.

This, this unmet need for consumers who broken and it needs to be fixed fast.

And and I will, I will pay a little bit of money to get the thing I need faster and not have to go to the store to pick it up.

Yeah, you know, you're making me think about something too, Joe.

Like the the speed or like the ultra fast delivery actually takes away what is the inconvenience of e commerce shopping of not knowing when it's going to arrive and needing to be home?

Like if I can reliably expect my goods to be in my house in under an hour from when I push the button on my mobile phone, that takes a lot of that inconvenience away because I'm probably not going to go anywhere during that period of time where I can, you know, figure out something to do to keeps me home and keeps me there for the delivery.

Which for a lot of people is, you know, can be a big deal.

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All right, headline number three.

J.C. penney's launched a new retail rejuvenation marketing campaign aimed squarely at off price retailers, arguing its apparel and home goods are more fashionable and in better condition than what shoppers find at discounters like tgx, Ross and Burlington, according to Retail Dive in.

The campaign, dubbed a journey from quote retail regret to retail redemption.

End quote Pennies touts its apparel as more fashionable, its home goods as in better shape than what can be found at its discount rivals from August 28th through August 30th.

Yes, this weekend, everybody, those shoppers who regret a purchase made elsewhere can drop their items off at a JC Penney store and get $15 off a $50 purchase.

The campaign includes a tongue in cheek spot featuring six people apparently hooked on off price shopping with a retreat facilitator working to break the spell those stores have on them before getting them to chant cult like in favor of pennies Instead.

It's a great commercial.

I got to give them props on that one.

Joe.

JCPenney is essentially telling shoppers that off price treasure hunting is a mistake.

Is attacking a category that's been taking your market shares for years a smart, offensive move or isn't it?

Is it in and of itself also a mistake?

I Go both ways on this one, which is probably not the right.

The right answer, but I think, I think on the one hand, JCPenney has been so on the back foot for such a long time.

It's nice to see them being punchy about anything.

And, and, you know, I think an aggressive targeted campaign against or contro.

One of the places that the JCPenney shopper is shopping these days.

Why not?

Like, you might as well give it, give it a try.

To your point, it's a really funny ad.

It catches the attention.

It probably makes some people who would not been to a JCPenney in the wild go, oh, yeah, there's some points about the downsides of the treasure hunt approach that maybe I should give them another try.

Do I think JCPenney could pick on other categories that have taken traffic away from it?

Sure, absolutely.

But again, it's better than the silence.

That has been JCPenney's main marketing strategy up until now.

So I give them credit for something that's likely to get some attention on social.

And it's kind of funny.

And you know how effective it's going to be as far as driving JCPenney sales.

We'll.

We'll kind of have to wait and see on that, but at least it's getting some attention and, and social buzz has been good about it.

Yeah, that's funny, Joe.

It makes me think, like, as I project five to 10 years out, like, if I get to see a commercial down the road of, like, why are you shopping on Amazon from their fully automated warehouse where, like, the robots are picking everything and packing everything and when you could be coming into our store and interacting with a human being, you know, it makes me start to wonder if that's the direction we're going to go.

But I don't know.

I'm kind of conflicted, too.

I think on the whole, though, I'm a little.

I'm a little more on the downside of this promotion.

There's a few things that worry me.

Like, number one, I think J.C. penney's has no idea what the redemption is going to be on this.

It's a pretty compelling offer and it could be quite high.

You could get a lot of folks bringing items in.

And so one that's going to be hard to comp again against next year.

And then you also have no idea what products are coming back to you.

So it sounds like hell on earth if you're working in the stores this weekend.

So I, I salute you, JCPenney store workers, because I would not Want to have this coming down, down, down the pike for me this weekend.

I sure hope there's some fine print about just, just what they'll take back and what condition it has to be in because yeah, I could see a bunch of people finding like something that cost $2 and getting $15 in credit for it.

And I mean, again, maybe aside from the, to your point, very valid point, like what, what the in store staff is going to have to deal with with all of this stuff.

Getting a whole bunch of people in stores with $15, that may lead to a $30 purchase or a $40 purchase or a $50 purchase.

I know the numbers may work, but, but yeah, the, the logistics of it are sound, challenging.

And the other thing too is like if their deduction, if it isn't compelling or their redemptions are bad, I mean, then it's like abandoned ship.

I mean like, I'm like, oh my God, we, we can't get anybody in here with like this type of promotion and we spend the money that we're giving them.

So like that's going to be a big telltale sign for everyone at JCPenney in terms of like, oh man, is this going to be a going concern or not?

So, so it's pretty bold.

Like it's, it's going to set the course one way or the other.

Yeah.

The other thing I just don't like, I just, you're basically telling me I should shop off price with this commercial.

That's basically what you're telling me.

You're telling, you're telling, you're putting that in my mind, which I probably never actually thought about, like, you know, overtly, like, oh, I shouldn't go to J.C. penny's because I can get great deals at off price price.

Why don't I just do that?

So, so for me, it, I don't know.

As we're talking about this more, Joe, I feel like at the end of the day we're still pushing water uphill in a big way, but I don't you get the last word here.

Yeah, I, I, I see your point exactly.

About, you know, kind of the challenge of picking on a rival is you also potentially plant the seed in somebody's mind that, oh, I, I could go shop at the rival instead.

It may actually not be so, so bad.

So again, I still give them credit for a campaign that was designed to garner some social media attention and buzz.

The message I like a lot, the execution.

I think you're absolutely right about the challenges that Insource app is going to face with the execution of it.

And yeah, at the end of the day, are people actually going to follow through and bring something crappy that they got wherever, like in exchange for 15 bucks?

Depends on what else is going on this weekend.

I guess.

I don't have any plans so maybe.

I will take a Trek over to JCPenney's.

All right.

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Learn more@ocampo capital.com headline number 4 CPK California Pizza Kitchen is partnering with T Rock Global to deploy up to 1,000 automated pizza kiosks nationwide over the next three years, expanding into airports, universities, hospitals, hotels and other high traffic non restaurant locations.

According to Chainstore Aids, the rollout will initially focus on clusters of at least 20 units across 30 major US markets, with T Rock leveraging its nationwide infrastructure including 32 warehouses, a dedicated Van Feet Van fleet, I should say not feet flat van fleet and thousands of technicians to deploy, replenish, maintain and support the machines.

The kiosk use TurboChef, yes, Turbo Chef Powered Cooking Joe touchscreen technology and data driven systems and can prepare a pizza in as little as 90 seconds.

CPK began testing automated retail in 2025 with machines already operating at airports including Boston, Logan Hartsfield, Jackson, Atlanta, Dallas, Love Field and Dayton international.

And another 15 machines are set to activate at universities by the end of 2026.

Notably, this news also comes a few months after CPK was acquired by an ownership group consisting of consortium brand Partners, Eldridge Industries, R5 Brands and Convive Brands following the chain's 2020 bankruptcy filing.

Joe, this is also the put you on the spot question of the week.

The A and M put you on the spot question of the week.

Here it is.

California Pizza Kitchen has been declining in location count roughly 8% per year on average from 2021 through the end of 2025.

Is a format expansion like this likely to be successful as the brand overall contracts or is streamlining the value prop down to product speed and convenience exactly what the brand needs?

I think this is a good move.

I like this strategy on CPK's part.

It's maybe underappreciated that CPK also has a pretty strong CPG business like they're available in frozen format in a whole bunch of grocery stores around the country.

CPK's president is actually going to be on stage at grocery shop in September talking about the CPG strategy and how it fits into the broader strategy.

I don't know if we'll be asking him about expansion of vending machines around the country, but I hope we do.

So.

I think this is a good move.

I think it comes down to strategy, like where they locate these things and kind of what the other food options are in the vicinity.

But I think about most of the airports I travel through, I might actually like a Turbo Chef frozen pizza over the other things on offer.

So I think it kind of depends on environment.

CPK has the advantage of a brand that all of us kind of are familiar with, like however much or little we have kind of nostalgia for it or love for it.

Depends.

But it's at least kind of known and dependable as opposed to like a brand new brand.

And I think that'll, that'll be helpful in these spaces where it's like, oh look, it's a kiosk.

I can get a fresh hot pizza instantaneously, almost instantaneously.

I think it's a good value proposition depending on where these things are located.

So it all comes down to geography and placement and being real smart about that.

Yeah.

Two minute.

Two minutes for a pizza, Joe.

That's nuts, isn't.

Is?

I mean I, I have long been a fan of the pizza robot that actually assembles a pizza kind of fresh.

And I do not think that is what this is.

I think these are probably pre made and flash frozen and flash reheated.

But, but still, I think again, kind of given a lot of the airports I've been through recently and the other options I've had for food.

Like, I think this will be appealing to at least some people.

I, I think so too.

I mean, I like this move.

You alluded to their CBG business.

I mean I used to run frozen food at Target and I can tell you, yeah, do a, they do a dang good CBG business.

Yeah.

And so, you know, the, the, the brand resonates with people.

People understand what their frozen pizza, to your point, Joe, essentially tastes like.

And you know, I think the other point about this, when I think when I step up and I look at 30,000 Foot View, the other questions I started asking, reading this headlines and preparing for today's show.

And Joe, I'm curious to get your take on this too.

The CPK in store experience isn't really anything to write home about, you know, particularly in an airport, which is where I, where there's one in the Vegas airport where I just was this weekend and in fact, I would say that very few in restaurant pizza experiences are.

Which is why we don't have a national pizza place that we all love anymore.

Like, the Hut is gone, Joe.

Right?

Nobody goes to Pizza Hut anymore.

Godfather's roundtable, those are virtually non existent because people, at the end of the day, they just want a quality pie.

They just want a quality pie that they can count on and come back to.

And so to your point, Joe, especially in an airport setting, a quality pie in under two minutes.

Sign me up for that.

I'm worried the line's gonna be too long at the kiosk.

Honestly, once this word spreads on this.

And the other thing, I wonder about too, Joe, if this tech is that slick, right.

Are we gonna see other brands follow suit and go in this direction?

Are there going to be lots of pizza kiosks all throughout the world?

Get it on your way out the door.

It only takes you two extra minutes.

That, I mean, I don't know, I, I don't think it's that crazy, but.

Joe, talk me off the ledge here.

Yeah, no, I, I think it's potentially a compelling offer.

Pizza has long been a convenience food in the sense of.

To your point, like it's, it's not so much something people in most of the country go out for.

They get it delivered to them from Domino's or whoever.

And, and so kind of this kind of the shift to a kiosk based delivery method is just a small shift in, in venue, but kind of equal, if not more so, convenience.

And yeah, I think it comes down to keeping these things stocked, understanding kind of the demand patterns through the course of the day and kind of making sure that there's always pizza when somebody wants one.

To your point, I think maybe one of the biggest challenges they'll face is not too little demand for these things, but too much demand for them because you go to a couple of kiosks and they're sold out and then you kind of, you kind of write them off and, and that would, that would obviously undermine the value of this initiative.

Yeah.

Or.

Yeah.

Or the line's too long.

Like you're waiting five people in front of you and it's gonna be 10 minutes before you get to the front of the line to place your Kia to play your.

I don't know how many.

Yeah.

At one time too.

The article didn't say that like maybe it can, you can prepare more than one pizza at one time.

Yeah.

Or they'll, they'll put two side by side or something like that.

But, but yeah, I do think kind of understanding likely demand or you know, being fast to adapt to demand as it emerges is going to be key here.

Yeah, it's a cool headline.

It's the last headline I picked this week, but I'm glad I did because like, it's a, it's also a good representation of like a company willing to go out and disrupt itself potentially before somebody else does.

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Ann Taylor is staging a brand comeback with its first major integrated marketing campaign in nearly a decade.

This is Ann alongside a substack newsletter and a New York Fashion Week pop up activation.

According to Retail Dive.

This is Ann is Ann Taylor's.

It's like just Jack.

This is Ann.

It's Ann Taylor's first major integrated marketing campaign since 2017, centering on ads that show a busy mom sporting outfits for various occasions, including heading to work and grabbing casual coffee with a friend.

Shot in New York City as a, quote, reintroduction of Ann Taylor to the world.

End quote.

Lofty.

The campaign follows other community building initiatives, including its February debut of a substack called the Desk that publishes career and style advice content, which is part of a broader retailer trend of using newsletters to stand out on AI chatbots that scrape forums and editorial sites.

And Taylor is worth mentioning is also owned by Knitwell Group, the holding company formed three years ago that also runs Loft Tablets and Chico's Joe.

I left this one deliberate, deliberately for last because I can't think of anyone that I've talked to more about the dawn of nostalgic retail or the comeback of nostalgic retail than you.

So is Ann Taylor's first big campaign since 2017 plus a substack and a New York Fashion Week activation enough firepower, do you think, to reintroduce a heritage brand to a new generation of shoppers?

I'm of two minds about that.

I love the substack.

I spent some time yesterday reading it and like, I mean, I personally love the substack, but I am absolutely not an Ann Taylor prospective customer.

So the fact that they talk about it being their annifesto, like, I don't know if working Women like dad jokes, then I think it's an awesome move for them.

But I haven't done the market research on that, so I don't know.

But again, I think between both JCPenney kind of making a stir, going after a competitive category, Ann Taylor reintroducing itself in a bold way, using a kind of hot new marketing channel to do it substack.

I think we're seeing these brands try new ways to introduce or reintroduce themselves to their audience.

Whether Ann Taylor's specific effort is going to pay off or not, I'm not sure.

But, but I do kind of think, you know, there's this trend around people dressing up to be at work a little bit more than they did a couple of years ago.

Suits are back for guys, I assume the equivalent for women.

And the fact that, you know, a lot of younger women in the workplace these days, they probably went shopping to Ann Taylor with their moms when they were younger.

And so I think the trick Ann Taylor needs to pull off is to kind of be a mom brand that also appeals to younger people.

The way New Balance I think has succeeded at that.

But it is not easy for a brand to do that.

But, but if, if, if between like the, the refresh styles and kind of this, this kind of new attitude that, that they've kind of adopted in the substack and the other marketing channels, I think it gives them a fighting chance to do it.

But I don't know that I think it's a automatic home run.

Yeah, yeah, I think I'm conflicted on it too.

And the, the point, I think that is the strongest in, in support of it on the pro case is what you said in terms of like, for every trend there's a counter trend.

You know, first we had the athleisure wave and now we've, it's swinging back, you know.

And I've had a number of people tell me over the years that they miss Ann Taylor specifically for what it used to provide.

Because what they used to provide is hard to get, it's hard to find.

So is it a well timed comeback?

Number one, I think, I think, yeah, I think it's well timed.

Like it possibly is very well timed.

Is it taking steps to generate the right interest?

Yeah, I think so, for the most part, yeah.

I mean, Joe Laszlo, big fan of their sub stack.

I mean there you heard it here folks, so go check it out.

But you know, at the end of the day that's not enough.

It's still going to come down to great merchandising, great product, great store and digital experiences to win people back, because that ultimately is where your money is made.

Marketing is nice, but you have to deliver on the goods, too.

And so that's what it's going to come down to.

And that's going to take, you know, great efforts quarter over quarter over quarter.

And, you know, the market campaigns will help, but you got to deliver on the promise.

Yeah.

I think it's also interesting that they're kind of broadening their value proposition a bit, which can be good, but can also be dilutive.

Right.

I mean, Ann Taylor, for years was where you went to get your work attire, not so much your leisure attire.

And part of the rebrand and the relaunch, the reintroduction, is we can dress you on the weekend as well as during your 9 to 5 or 9 to 6 or whatever it is.

And again, I think on the one hand, great, why not like, expand the merchandise selection, get.

Get people in.

But on the other hand, that's also not what, you know, generations of women looked to Ann Taylor to do.

And so it risks kind of maybe watering down some of their historic strength by.

By trying to get into other.

Other parts of a women's.

A woman's wardrobe.

Yeah, that's a great point, too.

And there's a lot of competition, A lot of competition in that space.

All right, well, let's get to the lightning round.

Let's finish up today's show.

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With technology that can scale your growing e commerce operations, visit rswarehousingsolutions.com Joe, as someone born and raised in Hawaii, where do you come down on pineapple on your pizza?

Thank you for that very important question, Chris.

I try to be measured in my terminology, not go overboard into hyperbole or exaggeration.

So when I say the word abomination, I really mean abomination.

I think you do.

You're pulling punches, Joe.

Many, many things belong on a pizza, but pineapple is absolutely not one of them.

Never know how nothing makes it okay in my book.

I could not agree more with you.

I could not agree with more with you.

I think it's an abomination, too.

My wife likes it sometimes and I cannot stand it.

Yes, 100% concur.

Yeah.

Just don't, don't understand it.

I wish they picked another name than Hawaiian Pizza.

I feel like it bespurches my whole home state that they call it that question for you.

As we were talking about Home Depot, it got me thinking, just.

I live in a tiny apartment in New York.

My home renovation needs are few and far between.

But Chris, what was your most recent home repair renovation project?

And, and would getting a really fast delivery have helped you out?

Oh man, that's a good question too.

So my most recent home delivery.

This is going to grow some people out.

My most recent home delivery project was we found bats and squirrels in our attic.

And so we had to call.

We had to call.

We had to call in the Orkin Man.

Joe, remember those commercials?

We had to really call it some serious firepower.

So no three hour delivery or less would not have helped us one bit.

But man, that was, that was not fun.

That was not a fun experience at all.

That does not.

Were the bats eating the squirrels?

Were they living in harmony?

I don't know who was eating whom, Joe?

That's a good question.

I didn't, I didn't really find that out.

I'm.

I'm guessing probably better not to know.

Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah, but there was a lot of bat guada that was told that was found upstairs and like, that's not good.

And so sounds dreadful.

And you two, full day process to get it cleaned out.

Definitely needed bigger guns than, than Home Depot is able to deliver.

All right.

Given that we called out JCPenney's retail rejuvenation ad campaign, Joe, what is, in your opinion, the funniest retail ad campaign of all time?

So I'm, I'm going to take this on a little bit of a tangent because as I was thinking about JCPenney, I was doing a little bit of research and I stumbled onto this story about Sears, Sears, the other.

In my mind, like, Sears and JCPenney like went to like, like for, for ages and ages.

Back in 1975, Sears still published its fall winter catalogs, right?

Thousands of pages, 1500ish pages.

July of 1975, this catalog came out, got delivered to 15 million homes around the United States and like went viral, like way before social media, before there was any way to go viral.

This went viral because on page 602 in the men's selection, there were, there was a photo of two guys in underwear.

One of them, there was a sort of a shadow that might have looked like, might have Looked like you saw a little bit more that you were supposed to see of this guy's anatomy.

And it became the thing.

In July of 1975, everybody was talking about the Sears catalog.

And was it or wasn't it like a part of a man's anatomy that you shouldn't see in a family catalog?

There was a novelty song written about it that went to the top of the country music charts.

It was this crazy story, the man on page 602.

If you Google that or ask chatgpt about it, this is a real thing.

And it just kind of strikes me in this era of social media and people deliberately doing things that are edgy to get the buzz for it, Sears, totally accidentally, 50 odd years ago, kind of had this moment happen for it.

It was probably, frankly the best thing that happened to the Sears catalog in ages.

Everybody in the country was flipping through this catalog, Turning to page 602 to see is it or isn't it?

Oh, my God.

I'm gonna have to look this up.

As soon as I get off the call with you.

Absolutely.

Hilarious bit of retail trivia that, like, I feel like it resonates so well with the way that we live our lives today.

Back way, way before any sort of modern technology existed.

Wow.

Retail historian Joe Lazlo.

So Sears catalog man, page 602, that's what we all need to search.

Sears catalog 602, I think, I think Google will turn up like a lot of coverage from, well, kind of retroactive coverage.

A lot of people have investigated over the years with like magnifying glasses and like, like, you know, kind of digital scans and zooms to try to figure out.

It's like the loc finance monster of this series catalog.

Joe.

This is usually a family friendly show, but hey, you know, let's, let's get a little risk candidate at the end of the lighting round.

I'll, I'll wrap it up and try to take us a little more.

More highbrow maybe.

And, and kind of my last question to you, Chris.

Aside from retail, my other passion is museums.

And so I'm really curious, what's your favorite museum?

I love museums too, Joe.

That's it.

I didn't know that about you.

I, I think I've talked about this on the show, but I have this thing where I take all my kids to the presidential museums throughout the country.

And I think we've hit four of them, four or five of them thus far.

And I think my favorite museum, though, of all time, because I don't know why it stands out is the JFK Museum in Boston.

I just really like that museum.

It's just really interesting and really neat.

What's your favorite museum, Joe, as a museum goer?

So in New York, the Metropolitan Museum of Art has a branch called the Cloisters that's way up on the northern tip of Manhattan.

John D. Rockefeller bought a bunch of land up there.

He bought some land across the Hudson river in New Jersey so that it's all like pristine.

And he bought a whole bunch of old monasteries and churches from across France and Spain and other European countries and had them taken apart brick by brick and rebuilt into this purpose built museum at the northern end of Manhattan.

And it's so unlikely to me that you're in New York City and you kind of have this little taste of medieval Europe that's been lovingly created.

It's far enough off the beaten path that it's self seldom crowded up there.

They have these beautiful little gardens.

It.

I just, I don't know, there's something about it that's like literally magical to me.

So that.

That is my favorite museum in the world.

Oh, wow, okay, that's a great drop, especially for our New York listeners that maybe didn't even know that existed or, you know, people that are going to New York on a vacation too or something, you know.

Today's podcast was produced, of course, with the help and support of Ella Su Yord.

Happy birthday today to John Mulaney McCully Culkin and to the star of Aquila and the Bee, Kiki Palmer.

And remember, if you can only read or listen to one retail blog in the business, make it omnitalk.

Our Fast five podcast is the quickest, fastest rundown of all the day's top retail news and our daily newsletter, the Retail Daily Minute, tells you all you need to know each day to stay on top of your game as a retail executive and also regularly feature special content that is exclusive to us.

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Thanks as always for listening and please remember to like and leave us a review wherever you happen to listen to your podcast or on YouTube.

You can follow us today by simply going to YouTube.com omnitalkretail Joe if people are interested in joining you in Nashville for Shop Talk, Fall Unplugged what's the best way for them to do that?

Yeah, retail unplugged tickets are available now.

Our meetup process kicks off a week after Labor Day.

So now is a really good time to get a ticket to shop talk fall fall.shoptalk.com is the place to go to find out more about what we built, who's on the agenda and all of the amazing activations and fun things like store tours and whatnot that we're building.

So I'd say go there first and and then reach out to us on LinkedIn or by email or by whatever and hope to see you in Nashville.

Awesome.

Well, Joe, I can't wait to see you in Nashville as well.

I'm really looking forward to it this year.

So thank you for joining us today.

Joe Laszlo of Shop Talk.

And on behalf of all of us at Omnitalk, on behalf of producer Ella and myself, as always, be careful out there.