Career, Calling, and Created for Work — A Conversation with Elizabeth Hart

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Welcome to Created for Work, a Christian podcast

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where faith meets the workplace. From Genesis

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to Revelation, God created us in His own image

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and designed us for work. In the beginning of

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Scripture, we see a God who works and creates,

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who cultivates, and who invites us to join Him

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in meaningful labor. Created for Work is a podcast

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that explores practical topics in the workplace,

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leadership, calling, and what it truly means

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to reflect God's image through our work. Creative

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at work is also for the job seeker and those

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in the workforce looking to grow in their profession.

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We will explore topics in the workplace such

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as identity and self -worth beyond a job title,

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purpose, calling, and transferable skills, courage,

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confidence for interviews, perseverance through

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rejection and waiting, and integrity and excellence

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in work and life. We'll also answer questions

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related to job search and growing your career.

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What happens when your job search lasts longer

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than you expected? When rejection emails pile

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up? When confidence feels shaken and you begin

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to wonder what comes next? How to grow in your

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career and how to show your value? Your podcast

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hosts, Elizabeth and David Hart, bring over 50

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years of combined experience in workforce development,

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training and human resources. As co -founders

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of Tailored for Success, a missions -driven nonprofit

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that empowers job seekers to become economically

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self -sufficient, they have dedicated themselves

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and walked alongside individuals in the workplace

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offering dignity, encouragement, training, and

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practical support. Through Created for Work,

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Elizabeth and David will offer their knowledge

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and provide resources, support, and most importantly,

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help you apply your faith as Christians to a

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life -giving perspective of work using the Christian

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worldview. Your podcast hosts believe that work

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is more than just a paycheck. It's a calling.

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And from the very beginning, God designed each

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of us with purpose, gifting us to contribute,

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to lead, to serve, and to reflect His character

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in everything that we do. Whether you're in business,

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healthcare, technology, nonprofit, the trades,

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human resources, leadership, or navigating the

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career transitions or simply trying to honor

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God in your nine to five, this podcast is for

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you. Each episode will explore practical workplace

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topics like hiring, leadership, conflict resolution,

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and professional growth through a biblical lens.

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David and Elizabeth will have honest conversations

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about the challenges they and others have faced

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on the job and how their faith shapes the way

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that they have responded. Because the truth is,

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you weren't just created to work, you were created

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for work. So let's get started. Welcome to Created

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for Work. Created for Work is a Christian podcast

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where faith meets the workplace. Your hosts,

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Elizabeth and David Hart, will explore many different

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topics in the workplace and for the job seeker

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who is seeking work or is struggling to find

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work. And what we thought we would do is introduce

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ourselves to you and why we have started this

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podcast. So the way this is all going to work

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is that I will interview you today, Liz, and

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on our next episode, you will interview me. Right.

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Okay. So we've got a series of questions that

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we're going to go through and we'll just take

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it from there. So tell us a little bit about

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yourself and your professional journey. All right,

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so I am the founder and executive director of

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Taylor for Success and which is a nonprofit that

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just celebrated our 25th year last September.

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My journey is that I had always wanted to be

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an attorney since high school and was working

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in the legal profession, first as a legal secretary,

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then as a paralegal and then got accepted to

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law school. But I knew shortly thereafter, starting

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the first year, that this was not for me. And

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when I decided after the first year was done

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not to return, I had to figure out what's next

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and just... During a regular Sunday night watching

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60 minutes learned about dresser success and

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what they were doing with women in New York in

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terms of giving them suits and boosting their

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self -esteem and I knew that's what I wanted

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to do. I wanted to do it as a community service

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project but not as my career until I started

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serving my first client and I knew that was what

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I wanted to do. Why don't you tell us a little

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bit about what Tailor for Success does and just,

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you know, dive a little bit deeper into Tailor

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for Success. Really, this is where all of this

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is coming from. Right. Yeah. So, Tailor for Success

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is a nonprofit organization based in Malden,

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Massachusetts. And we have four career closets

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that I am happy to say. We provide career clothing

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and workforce development services to men and

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women who are in transition from one job to the

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next, or maybe they have been out of the workforce

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for a while. So we provide business clothing

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and also professional and career development

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training. We have four closets throughout the

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greater Boston area. And like I said earlier,

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we have been in business for about 25 years.

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As a matter of fact, we have been in business

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25 years, because last September, we celebrated

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our 25th anniversary. And during that time, we

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had a get together and we had some of our original

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board members joined us on that event. We had

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some of our funders that joined us at the event.

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We had the mayor of Malden, Massachusetts, Gary

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Christensen, who continues to be a strong supporter

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of Tailor for Success. The entire city of Malden,

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really, especially the Malden government, has

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all been a very strong supporter of Tailiff for

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Success. And we've also done, I mean, and to

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our credit also, to pat ourselves on the back,

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we've also done a lot of work with Malden, with

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Malden youth, with Malden residents, so forth.

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So you and I, we co -founded Tailiff for Success,

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as we said 25 years ago. What have been some

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of your highs and lows? Yeah, a lot of times

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people think that running a nonprofit is difficult

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I mean, I think people understand that but they

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also see the glamour of it the awards and the

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accolades but running a nonprofit especially

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from grassroots to what it is now is a journey

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and there have been some great highs working

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with clients that have gone on to develop their

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careers to lows where We've moved six times.

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We've had a flood. We've had zero funding. And

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all along, we have stuck with it. And through

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the grace of God, we're still here 25 plus years

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later. Right. And you bring up because I have

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to bring this up and I have to add to it because

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I don't because you never whenever we talk about

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this, you never give it the credit that it is.

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But the difficulty of running the nonprofit,

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especially in the early years. There were your

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salary is really, it's predicated on funding.

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And on top of that, you need to keep the organization

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running. You need to keep a roof over our heads

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as far as a workplace, a place where you can

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receive clients and serve clients and so forth.

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And there have been many paychecks missed, especially

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in the early days. Those were the lows. Those

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definitely were some of the lows. But I think

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even from the lows, there was a lot that we learned

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from it. Thank God for those lows because now,

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thank God, we've got funding. I know never to

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go back to those days. And I know that one grant

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application away from being back to missing the

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paycheck. And now I have three people on my payroll

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that I have to think about. And from what I learned,

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through the lows keeps me going now, even when

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I get discouraged like anyone would, but I know

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that there's a greater good. Absolutely. And

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then one other thing that we should really mention

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too is over the years, the growth of Tailored

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for Success. As you said Liz, we originally started

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serving low -income women that were either in

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career transition, maybe underemployed and needed

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to find a way to move up and to get to be prepped

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for interviews. And fair or not, the way you

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dress for an interview, and we debate this all

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the time, the way you dress for an interview,

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a determination is made on that candidate by

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a hiring manager, probably within the first five

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to seven, eight seconds. And that's scientifically

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proven. There's been many studies. So, I mean,

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it's not numbers that we're just making up. One

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of the other things over the years that we found,

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and this was very early on, this was probably

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by what, maybe year three, four, or five, that

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there were more than women that needed our services.

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Right. Tell us a little bit about that. So when

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we first started, thanks for that too, because

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I tend to forget that we are the largest organization

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in Massachusetts that serves women and men. I

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knew when I first started to look for success

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that I did not want to just focus on women. The

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goal was to focus on the family and head a household.

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So that could be a woman or a man. But at the

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time that we started was during the welfare to

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work period. And so there were more women that

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were struggling to get off of welfare so they

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could keep some of their other benefits alive.

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But I knew that I also wanted to serve men. And

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so about five years into it, we started serving

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men. and then quickly added at -risk youth and

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young adults. And also veterans. And veterans,

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yes, don't forget the veterans, yeah, which is...

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project that came about 10 years after we started,

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but has been a pet project of both of us, I think

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for a while. So yeah, so we serve men and women

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and anyone of any gender, any age that is in

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a transition who's looking for a first job, second

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job promotion, who wants to really advance within

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their career. And the clothing is just a hook

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to get them in, right? And then once they're

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in, they become our clients. then we offer our

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career development and professional development

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workshops. Right. And in the Veterans Project,

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which by the way is called Boots to Suits, our

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first Boots to Suits event was at the State House.

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Right. And it was hosted by, it was obviously

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hosted by us. But the Veterans Agency, also a

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co -host, in fact, the Secretary of Veteran Affairs,

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Secretary Urena, when he was in charge, he also

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spoke at the event. I think we served close to

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100 veterans in that one day. But interestingly

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enough, that Boots to Suits project started out

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trying to recruit women veterans. Yes. And you

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want to talk about a low? That was one. I mean,

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listen, you know it better than I do, but that

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was one of the biggest lows we had. We did not

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get women veterans. Women veterans historically

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do not identify. Right. They don't self identify.

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And now whenever we do events for the veterans,

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we do one every year, a Boots to Suits event

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every year. We always have more men than we do

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women. We have just, you know, one or two women

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and about 30 male veterans. And there's various

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reasons for that, trauma issues and so forth.

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But, but yeah, it started out just to serve women

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veterans because I had met my first woman vet

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and we got together and decided to try to do

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this. Correct. So one last thing about Tailor

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for Success, and we'll talk more about this as

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the episodes go forward, because as I, you know,

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as we said before, created for work really is

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a spin -off, shall we say, off -tail it for success.

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It was what I believe, from my personal opinion,

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it was sort of the next step for us as our faith

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in Christ has grown. But one of the things that

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we started, I think it was two years ago, you

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had a woman reach out to you from UMass Lowell.

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And she was in charge of the career development

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group. Right. She was working with career development

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at UMass Lowell at the Manning Business Center.

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And she asked if we could help with addressing

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the students for an upcoming job fair. Right.

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And the upcoming job fair is a job fair that

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UMass Lowell has. Really, it attracts people

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from all of UMass, and it's at the Songis Arena,

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and there's over 100 employers that go, and at

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least 3 ,000 to 5 ,000 students. But what was

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interesting is so we rented a truck, we packed

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up all our clothes that we had, and we went up

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to UMass. We set up a, we'll call it a pop -up

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closet, whatever you want to call it. And that

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first year, which was two years ago, this is

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our second time we did it. This is our second

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time. This past year, we served, I think it was

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close to 700 students. Yeah, we thought we would

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get a couple hundred. Right, if that. We weren't

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sure what we were going to get. And it literally,

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I mean, they literally took every piece of clothing

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off the rack. We had a U -Haul truck full of

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clothes and we came home with a U -Haul truck

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with 10 racks and empty. So, really a complete

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and total success. And we're doing that now annually

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and we're looking at also building a project

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around that we can work this through other schools

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also. It's just an amazing way to get our services

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out there, especially to the young professionals

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as they get ready to graduate and move into the

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work world. So, let's jump back here for a moment

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back to created for work. I'm going to jump in

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with this question. How did your faith in Christ

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shape your understanding of work and vocation?

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It shaped it through the fact that everything

00:14:13.820 --> 00:14:16.980
that I have been doing has been grounded in my

00:14:16.980 --> 00:14:19.899
faith, even if I hadn't realized it at the time.

00:14:20.580 --> 00:14:27.429
And I came to know when I became When I started

00:14:27.429 --> 00:14:29.450
to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ,

00:14:29.549 --> 00:14:33.230
then I knew that what I was doing was glorifying

00:14:33.230 --> 00:14:37.870
God. And then it became my vocation. It became

00:14:37.870 --> 00:14:41.029
what I was made to do. And I'm very grateful

00:14:41.029 --> 00:14:43.149
and blessed that I get to do this every day.

00:14:43.309 --> 00:14:47.129
Even on the bad days, it's a good day. Was there

00:14:47.129 --> 00:14:50.830
a specific point when you looked at what you

00:14:50.830 --> 00:14:54.509
did differently? I remember I was in a life group

00:14:54.509 --> 00:14:58.070
and one of the women in my life group or small

00:14:58.070 --> 00:15:00.210
group, some people call it small group, said

00:15:00.210 --> 00:15:02.529
to me, I was talking about Taylor for success

00:15:02.529 --> 00:15:04.690
and what we do. And she said, well, you have

00:15:04.690 --> 00:15:07.450
a ministry. And I'm like, I don't think so. I

00:15:07.450 --> 00:15:09.950
think I just have a nonprofit. But then I started

00:15:09.950 --> 00:15:13.690
to see it differently. And I knew that the clothing

00:15:13.690 --> 00:15:16.070
and the services that we provided boost self

00:15:16.070 --> 00:15:18.590
-esteem. We always treat people with dignity

00:15:18.590 --> 00:15:22.309
and respect. But I see now that's a way of glorifying

00:15:22.309 --> 00:15:27.610
God. Right. Right. Because ultimately, God created

00:15:27.610 --> 00:15:29.990
every one of us. Right. He created every one

00:15:29.990 --> 00:15:33.230
of us in His image. In His image to work. And

00:15:33.230 --> 00:15:36.649
what God also told us to do is go forward, work,

00:15:36.809 --> 00:15:40.210
be fruitful, multiply, and have dominion. Yeah.

00:15:40.210 --> 00:15:44.100
Exactly. So we are... we were created to work,

00:15:44.440 --> 00:15:46.559
which is, again, where the podcast came from.

00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:49.019
And the other point, I think, and I know that

00:15:49.019 --> 00:15:51.059
you and I were on the same class at one point,

00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:53.700
we were taking a class called Theology of Work.

00:15:54.659 --> 00:15:57.000
And we'll talk more about that, and I really

00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:58.799
hope, and I'm going to ask him because I see

00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:02.279
him occasionally. We see him at church fairly

00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:04.259
frequently on Sundays, unless he's traveling.

00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:07.370
The gentleman who created public reading, to

00:16:07.370 --> 00:16:09.230
help create public reading of scripture, theology

00:16:09.230 --> 00:16:13.350
of work. And so he hosted a class for us. And

00:16:13.350 --> 00:16:15.190
one of the things that I found just completely

00:16:15.190 --> 00:16:17.610
amazing, and I think you'll agree with me, is

00:16:17.610 --> 00:16:21.809
that in the Bible, in the 66 books of the Bible,

00:16:22.090 --> 00:16:30.909
work is directly mentioned over 800 times. we

00:16:30.909 --> 00:16:32.970
were created to work. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing.

00:16:33.309 --> 00:16:35.690
Yeah, I do hope that we can get Andy Mills on

00:16:35.690 --> 00:16:38.490
to talk about theology of work with us. Absolutely.

00:16:39.049 --> 00:16:41.629
Absolutely. So I think we've kind of both answered

00:16:41.629 --> 00:16:45.690
this question, but what inspired you and I, which

00:16:45.690 --> 00:16:47.450
you'll ask, I'm sure you'll ask me when, when

00:16:47.450 --> 00:16:49.769
it's your turn to interview me, what inspired

00:16:49.769 --> 00:16:52.370
you to start created for work and the podcast?

00:16:52.710 --> 00:16:55.370
Yeah, what started was, as we mentioned earlier,

00:16:55.549 --> 00:16:58.730
I started a podcast called pivot point. Success

00:16:58.730 --> 00:17:02.470
is your journey during COVID love to do podcasting

00:17:02.470 --> 00:17:05.700
and did it for a couple of years. But then I

00:17:05.700 --> 00:17:09.400
found that I was not as committed to it as I

00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:11.799
had been in the beginning. I loved the stories

00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:14.240
that people told about the career journey, but

00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:16.380
something was missing. And I think it was because

00:17:16.380 --> 00:17:18.619
my faith has started to grow and I wanted to

00:17:18.619 --> 00:17:22.339
be able to incorporate that. And that's how we

00:17:22.339 --> 00:17:24.720
decided to do this, that I wanted to be able

00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:29.539
to not only talk about how you can use your faith

00:17:29.539 --> 00:17:34.380
in work, but also give job seekers hope. During

00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:36.720
their struggles. I was talking to a woman at

00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:39.119
church and she had been unemployed for quite

00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:42.299
a lot 10 10 months And it was her faith that

00:17:42.299 --> 00:17:44.599
carried her through and that's where sort of

00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:48.259
the spark came from absolutely So let me ask

00:17:48.259 --> 00:17:51.279
you this have you personally experienced a period

00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:55.940
of unemployment? career transition or Some type

00:17:55.940 --> 00:17:59.930
of uncertainty in your professional life I have

00:17:59.930 --> 00:18:03.529
many times. I have been fired. I have been, I've

00:18:03.529 --> 00:18:06.809
been demoted. I remember one time working as

00:18:06.809 --> 00:18:09.150
a legal secretary where I was demoted. Love that

00:18:09.150 --> 00:18:12.750
one. So I've always gone through different career

00:18:12.750 --> 00:18:16.930
transitions, even going from working as a intellectual

00:18:16.930 --> 00:18:20.150
property paralegal to starting table for success

00:18:20.150 --> 00:18:22.950
was a transition. And I think with every transition

00:18:22.950 --> 00:18:26.329
you grow and I always look at it as is a benefit.

00:18:26.829 --> 00:18:30.450
Okay, tell us the time you were fired. So that

00:18:30.450 --> 00:18:33.569
was when I was just out of high school. I was

00:18:33.569 --> 00:18:36.670
working at a bank as a teller was not a good

00:18:36.670 --> 00:18:40.750
teller. They kept me as long as they could. I

00:18:40.750 --> 00:18:42.710
think they were losing way too much money on

00:18:42.710 --> 00:18:47.069
me. It never balanced. I made a lot of our customers

00:18:47.069 --> 00:18:50.029
really happy. But I hope your funders didn't

00:18:50.029 --> 00:18:53.319
hear that. But I'm like better now. We've grown

00:18:53.319 --> 00:18:55.720
so far that we have an accountant that does all

00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:59.319
of our and so forth. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

00:19:00.460 --> 00:19:03.200
All right. What about what about career transition?

00:19:03.779 --> 00:19:08.500
What are some examples of? I mean, obviously,

00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:10.299
the career transition is who went from the legal

00:19:10.299 --> 00:19:13.240
industry into the nonprofit industry, but tell

00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:15.200
our listeners what were some of the thoughts

00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:18.480
that went through your mind on that? Yeah, I

00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:21.819
really just started Tailor for Success as a community

00:19:21.819 --> 00:19:24.559
service project and never thought that, never

00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:27.700
really thought beyond just starting it and certainly

00:19:27.700 --> 00:19:30.559
never thought it would last 25 years, especially

00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:33.099
where the lean times where there was no money.

00:19:33.460 --> 00:19:37.480
But the process was that as I think just as my

00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:40.099
nature, I like to research, I like to write,

00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:41.660
and I thought, you know, and I can pretty much

00:19:41.660 --> 00:19:44.339
teach myself whatever I need to know. And with

00:19:44.339 --> 00:19:48.509
this career transition and with every one, I

00:19:48.509 --> 00:19:51.789
teach myself what I need to know. So I think

00:19:51.789 --> 00:19:55.349
that if I have to give a tip for someone, it's

00:19:55.349 --> 00:19:58.150
that preparation in advance is really important.

00:19:59.210 --> 00:20:01.589
So this is a unscripted question I'm going to

00:20:01.589 --> 00:20:05.690
ask you. We've had, we, as I say, tailored for

00:20:05.690 --> 00:20:08.890
success has had over the 25 years, we've probably

00:20:08.890 --> 00:20:14.089
served what, roughly 15 ,000 clients probably.

00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:21.200
And I'm sure in those 15 ,000 clients, and you'll

00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:23.740
know this, some have said, I just can't find

00:20:23.740 --> 00:20:27.819
any information on that. Yeah. Yeah. I get people

00:20:27.819 --> 00:20:32.160
that who say I'm too old to get a job. I can't

00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:35.480
find information on anything that I want to do.

00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:40.410
I can't increase my knowledge. And maybe in the

00:20:40.410 --> 00:20:43.970
beginning, I would say, okay, well, maybe, but

00:20:43.970 --> 00:20:46.809
now where everything is on the internet, and

00:20:46.809 --> 00:20:49.609
you can learn whatever even when it comes down

00:20:49.609 --> 00:20:51.349
to when I'm working with a male client and he

00:20:51.349 --> 00:20:53.490
doesn't know how to tie a tie. I'm like, go to

00:20:53.490 --> 00:20:55.549
YouTube. There's a YouTube video. There's a YouTube

00:20:55.549 --> 00:20:57.789
video on everything. Exactly. There's really

00:20:57.789 --> 00:21:02.430
no excuses for not working or even if you're

00:21:02.430 --> 00:21:05.490
not working for not volunteering. Right. Right.

00:21:05.609 --> 00:21:10.019
Absolutely. All right. So, we had talked a little

00:21:10.019 --> 00:21:15.420
bit about Intake 1, which was a good take, I

00:21:15.420 --> 00:21:18.079
gotta tell you. This is going well, too. The

00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:21.339
question was, how can Christians view their jobs,

00:21:21.740 --> 00:21:24.779
and also, again, this is a Christian podcast,

00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:29.140
but non -Christians alike, which, if you start

00:21:29.140 --> 00:21:33.720
viewing your job this way, you may find yourself

00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:36.799
walking with God. But the question really is

00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:39.819
how can Christians view their job as more than

00:21:39.819 --> 00:21:43.039
just a paycheck? Yeah I think that once you start

00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:45.640
really looking at what you're doing how you're

00:21:45.640 --> 00:21:48.640
contributing to society in your work whether

00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:51.990
it's in the home or outside of the home you see

00:21:51.990 --> 00:21:55.910
how you are glorifying God with it. You're contributing

00:21:55.910 --> 00:21:59.470
to what He created us for, which was to be in

00:21:59.470 --> 00:22:02.789
His image. He started everything by working,

00:22:03.130 --> 00:22:06.250
and it's important to Him. Like you said, there's

00:22:06.250 --> 00:22:09.150
over 800 scriptures on work. So I think that

00:22:09.150 --> 00:22:11.289
you can at times look at it just as a paycheck

00:22:11.289 --> 00:22:14.769
if there is extenuating circumstances, right?

00:22:14.890 --> 00:22:17.549
But I think you get more fulfillment if you look

00:22:17.549 --> 00:22:20.900
at it more than a paycheck. So let's talk about

00:22:20.900 --> 00:22:22.960
the paycheck piece of it again and try to bring

00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:27.579
us to this. Have you ever worked? So let me back

00:22:27.579 --> 00:22:31.359
up for a minute. So Tailor for Success, clearly

00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:36.000
you were led here. Yeah. And the talents that

00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:39.819
God gave you when he created you, clearly you're

00:22:39.819 --> 00:22:42.180
utilizing it what you do on your day to day basis.

00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:45.160
Okay. And that I totally and completely believe

00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:49.769
that. Have you ever worked? in a job and it was

00:22:49.769 --> 00:22:52.349
just for a picture. I have. And tell us about

00:22:52.349 --> 00:22:55.950
that. Yeah, I have. It mainly, well actually

00:22:55.950 --> 00:22:58.529
in take one I thought of one instance, but I

00:22:58.529 --> 00:23:01.150
just now thought of another one where I thought

00:23:01.150 --> 00:23:03.789
it would be a really good idea when the boys

00:23:03.789 --> 00:23:06.750
were young to work in a daycare center. I thought,

00:23:06.769 --> 00:23:09.210
oh, this will be good. You lost your mind? Yeah,

00:23:09.250 --> 00:23:11.710
I did lose my mind. I don't think I lasted a

00:23:11.710 --> 00:23:14.980
week. And that was really just for a paycheck.

00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:17.559
And then another time was when I was working

00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:21.420
as a legal secretary for a temp agency. And my

00:23:21.420 --> 00:23:25.140
bond was 100 % on tail for success in getting

00:23:25.140 --> 00:23:28.319
it off the ground. But it was not something that

00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:31.720
I wanted to do. It seemed to me like a step backwards

00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:34.839
because I come from being a paralegal and having

00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:38.059
a secretary to now being one. And it just, yeah.

00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:40.740
Right. And so that also kind of correlates with

00:23:40.740 --> 00:23:44.019
a previous question about Korea transition. And

00:23:44.019 --> 00:23:46.180
one of the important things I think that our

00:23:46.180 --> 00:23:51.079
listeners need to know is that you all need to

00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:53.500
work and we have all at one point or another

00:23:53.980 --> 00:23:57.900
worked for just the paycheck because I think

00:23:57.900 --> 00:24:00.119
there's very few of us out there who don't have

00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:03.640
some level of responsibility of rent, mortgage,

00:24:04.140 --> 00:24:08.859
food, children, whatever it might be, and we

00:24:08.859 --> 00:24:11.660
have to work. Right. We need to work because

00:24:11.660 --> 00:24:14.920
we have family members, we have extended family

00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:17.660
members that we may be caring for, caring for

00:24:17.660 --> 00:24:21.319
ourselves, whatever it might be. So we're not

00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:24.859
telling anybody that if you are not doing that

00:24:24.859 --> 00:24:27.619
mission -driven job that you want or the job

00:24:27.619 --> 00:24:31.220
that you love to on Monday morning call in and

00:24:31.220 --> 00:24:34.640
quit, because that's a big mistake. And also

00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:36.839
one of the things that we have told all of our

00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:40.920
clients over the years is that what if you I

00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:43.880
can think of if it was number one tip that that

00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:46.519
I would give to any client is if you're in the

00:24:46.519 --> 00:24:48.619
if you're in the job market either looking for

00:24:48.619 --> 00:24:51.380
a job or even if you're unemployed and looking

00:24:51.380 --> 00:24:53.700
for a job the one thing you want to remember

00:24:53.700 --> 00:24:57.279
is that employers like to see candidates that

00:24:57.279 --> 00:24:59.539
have that are currently employed right right

00:24:59.539 --> 00:25:02.180
now what does that mean it might mean that you

00:25:02.180 --> 00:25:04.400
have a paycheck coming in every two weeks or

00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:06.970
every week whatever it may be Or if you're not

00:25:06.970 --> 00:25:11.470
in that circumstance, then getting out there

00:25:11.470 --> 00:25:14.490
and volunteering, volunteering for a local, for

00:25:14.490 --> 00:25:17.809
a local nonprofit, volunteering for a school,

00:25:18.150 --> 00:25:22.009
whatever, do even if you can, even if you, you

00:25:22.009 --> 00:25:24.150
could a per diem job or something like that,

00:25:24.150 --> 00:25:26.529
or go to work for a temp agent or whatever it

00:25:26.529 --> 00:25:28.710
might be. And you might not be working 40 hours

00:25:28.710 --> 00:25:31.170
a week, but you might be able to get 20, 25,

00:25:31.309 --> 00:25:33.809
30 hours or whatever it might be. It might not

00:25:33.809 --> 00:25:36.599
be what you want to do. but it shows that you

00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:40.220
are actively working or volunteering and therefore

00:25:40.220 --> 00:25:43.680
you are, and I come from the HR world, you are

00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:47.160
a much more viable candidate than somebody who

00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:49.400
I'm reading a resume and it looks like they have

00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:52.619
been unemployed for the last two years. What

00:25:52.619 --> 00:25:54.359
have you been doing for the last two years? That's

00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:56.660
the first thing that pops up into my mind. We'll

00:25:56.660 --> 00:25:58.740
dive deeper into that on other episodes, but

00:25:58.740 --> 00:26:00.680
that's one of the things that I think is important

00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:04.609
that our listeners understand. Alright, let's

00:26:04.609 --> 00:26:06.390
try to wrap this up a little bit. How would you

00:26:06.390 --> 00:26:10.369
encourage someone who feels stuck? And that can

00:26:10.369 --> 00:26:12.690
be stuck in, for our purposes, it's stuck in

00:26:12.690 --> 00:26:15.450
the process of finding meaningful employment,

00:26:15.869 --> 00:26:18.369
improving your level of employment. Let's say

00:26:18.369 --> 00:26:20.410
you might be underemployed, and there are a lot

00:26:20.410 --> 00:26:23.390
of people out there that are underemployed. What

00:26:23.390 --> 00:26:25.869
would you tell those individuals? Yeah, I think

00:26:25.869 --> 00:26:28.509
the number one thing is for people to always

00:26:28.509 --> 00:26:33.130
be lifelong learners. Use this time of unemployment

00:26:33.130 --> 00:26:37.430
or underemployment. to, and it doesn't necessarily

00:26:37.430 --> 00:26:39.869
mean going back to school. It could be taking

00:26:39.869 --> 00:26:44.589
a class, a free class online, but doing something

00:26:44.589 --> 00:26:47.990
to help better yourself. Right. Because what

00:26:47.990 --> 00:26:50.609
you'll gain the skills, but you'll also gain

00:26:50.609 --> 00:26:53.789
more self -confidence. So it's, there's many

00:26:53.789 --> 00:26:56.930
benefits to becoming a lifelong learner, or even

00:26:56.930 --> 00:26:59.329
if it's just going to the library and reading,

00:26:59.849 --> 00:27:02.430
do something to take yourself out of the situation

00:27:02.430 --> 00:27:05.349
that you're in. Right. Right. And as when you

00:27:05.349 --> 00:27:07.750
say classes, there's LinkedIn learning, there's

00:27:07.750 --> 00:27:10.390
Google has a whole series of classes that are

00:27:10.390 --> 00:27:12.970
free that you can take. Microsoft has a whole

00:27:12.970 --> 00:27:14.890
series of classes for their products that you

00:27:14.890 --> 00:27:17.309
can take and they're also free and you can get

00:27:17.309 --> 00:27:19.829
certified in any number of them and all that

00:27:19.829 --> 00:27:22.970
type of stuff. So the options are endless. Right.

00:27:23.390 --> 00:27:24.910
I always say if you have a library card, you

00:27:24.910 --> 00:27:26.309
can pretty much learn anything. That's right.

00:27:26.390 --> 00:27:27.910
And guess what? You don't even need to go to

00:27:27.910 --> 00:27:29.829
the library or you can do everything with the

00:27:29.829 --> 00:27:33.269
library online. Yeah. So there you go. If you

00:27:33.269 --> 00:27:36.009
could give one piece of advice to someone searching

00:27:36.009 --> 00:27:38.730
for a job or seeking career direction, what would

00:27:38.730 --> 00:27:44.359
it be? To maintain balance and balance is a funny

00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:47.079
word because what's balanced me may not be balanced

00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:49.839
to you But don't just focus on the fact that

00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:53.579
you're unemployed or in transition Do other things

00:27:53.579 --> 00:27:57.220
take up a hobby go for walk meet friends people

00:27:57.220 --> 00:28:00.000
tend to isolate themselves when they are in these

00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.839
Situations and that's just really not good. Definitely

00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:05.339
just get out there and maintain some kind of

00:28:05.339 --> 00:28:08.920
balance from your perspective uncreated for work

00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:12.819
what should our listeners expect to hear? What

00:28:12.819 --> 00:28:14.299
are some of the topics that we're going to talk

00:28:14.299 --> 00:28:15.900
about? Yeah, I think you're going to hear from

00:28:15.900 --> 00:28:19.480
us a lot about certainly topics around the theology

00:28:19.480 --> 00:28:22.660
of work and what is meaningful work, but also

00:28:22.660 --> 00:28:26.400
how to apply this in a way that will practically

00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:29.599
help you with your job search and to stay motivated.

00:28:30.610 --> 00:28:33.809
And if I could also add, we will be talking also

00:28:33.809 --> 00:28:36.930
about some very specific HR issues that come

00:28:36.930 --> 00:28:40.250
up, the way companies and human resource professionals

00:28:40.250 --> 00:28:43.049
and career development professionals need to

00:28:43.049 --> 00:28:47.769
work with their clients, and the level of what

00:28:47.769 --> 00:28:50.910
is really the right way to approach business

00:28:50.910 --> 00:28:53.829
from a Christian perspective. Right. All right.

00:28:53.890 --> 00:28:56.390
Couple, we call these bonus fun questions. Rapid

00:28:56.390 --> 00:28:59.009
fire questions. Yes, here we go. Your very first

00:28:59.009 --> 00:29:03.480
job. My very first job. Yeah Interestingly enough

00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:08.380
was at a library. There you go Best career advice

00:29:08.380 --> 00:29:11.099
you ever received don't burn bridges if you're

00:29:11.099 --> 00:29:14.859
leaving leave on a good note Okay, here's a good

00:29:14.859 --> 00:29:19.359
one. What book besides the Bible? Has most influenced

00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:22.789
your view of work? It's Tequila Mockingbird,

00:29:23.089 --> 00:29:25.470
Atticus Finch, who was the attorney that was

00:29:25.470 --> 00:29:28.230
representing a black man, falsely accused, and

00:29:28.230 --> 00:29:31.470
really showed me the value of having a work ethic.

00:29:32.730 --> 00:29:35.490
Interesting. I know, it's kind of odd. You ran

00:29:35.490 --> 00:29:38.049
as far away from the legal industry as you possibly

00:29:38.049 --> 00:29:40.890
could. I did the same thing. Coming back, though.

00:29:41.230 --> 00:29:44.450
Exactly. If Jesus was sitting with us right now,

00:29:46.190 --> 00:29:48.630
what do you think he would want workers to remember?

00:29:49.400 --> 00:29:52.700
That he has a plan for you even if it doesn't

00:29:52.700 --> 00:29:58.400
seem that there is a plan Just trust that he

00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:02.640
has a plan, okay, and then the last one What

00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:04.759
is one thing listeners might be surprised to

00:30:04.759 --> 00:30:10.319
learn about you? That I am an introvert even

00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:12.359
though I have to be an extrovert for my work

00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:15.819
and for a lot of different situations. There's

00:30:15.819 --> 00:30:18.000
nothing better than just staying at home in my

00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:20.180
pajamas and not having to talk to anyone, even

00:30:20.180 --> 00:30:22.980
the people at home. Even me. Even the people

00:30:22.980 --> 00:30:26.279
at home. I just, I'm an introvert. And when I

00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:29.839
have to go out and be an extrovert, I have to

00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:32.720
recharge by just being by myself. All right.

00:30:32.779 --> 00:30:34.660
Well, thank you, Liz. Thank you, David. It was

00:30:34.660 --> 00:30:36.380
a pleasure interviewing you. I can't wait to

00:30:36.380 --> 00:30:39.079
interview you. I know. I might be sick that day.

00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:41.420
All right. All right. Thank you very much. Thank

00:30:41.420 --> 00:30:42.059
you very much.