40 Years of Fearless Paralegal Work, with Rana Holcomb

Welcome to Voices of NCAJ.

We're talking to members of the North

Carolina Advocates for Justice about what

it means to be a trial lawyer,

what it takes to be great at the practice

of law and how being a part of NCAJ

enriches their lives and careers.

Produced and powered by LawPods.

Welcome everyone to Voices of NCAJ,

the podcast for the North Carolina

Advocates for Justice. I am Amber Nimocks,

your host and director of external

affairs for NCAJ. Before we get started,

I'd like to thank our circle of leadership

members for supporting NCAJ's mission

and this podcast. If

you're watching on YouTube,

you can see a list of circle of leadership

firms at the end of the podcast.

And to find out how your

firm can join the circle,

go to ncaj.com/circle. My

guest today is Rana Holcomb,

a litigation paralegal at Daggett

Schuler Law in Winston-Salem.

At this year's NCAJ convention in June,

she received NCAJ's Robbie Price Award.

The award goes to a paralegal who has

made significant contributions in the

fight for justice on behalf

of their clients and the

citizens of North Carolina.

And nominating Raina,

attorney Ben Winikoff praised her as

a fearless litigation paralegal whose

knowledge of the law, procedure

and evidence is unmatched. Raina,

congratulations and thanks

for being on the podcast.

Thank you for having me.

Let's start at the beginning.

You wrote in remarks for the

magazine that you've always

wanted to be a lawyer and that your

mother thought you'd make a good one.

So why is that?

Well, first of all,

she said I'd argue with a stop sign

and that I'd make a good lawyer.

And that was from a very young age.

I loved history. I loved civics.

And I'm talking about

back to third, fourth,

fifth grade and just really cared

about what was going on in my community

and my state and my country.

In fact, in fifth grade,

I wrote Richard Nixon a letter about them

desegregating the schools and how the

system was trying to make it fail.

My mother was shocked

when we got a response.

She didn't know I'd

written the letter. Oh.

Wow. And this was fifth grade?

1971, I believe.

Okay. And what did the response

from President Nixon say?

Well, it was from one of

the attorney generals.

I believe his last name

was Christianberry,

just thanking me for my concern.

And basically that was it.

It was a nice letter. We appreciate

you writing us, taking the time,

caring about your community, but

nothing really substantive in it.

You were taking steps. You were an

activist when you were very young.

This is not something that your family

was necessarily modeling for you?

My brother and my sisters. We were

all pretty much of like - mind,

but we grew up in Winston-Salem,

Bible Belt, Baptist Church,

Hellfire and Brimstone every Sunday. I

mean, that's the way it was at the time.

We were of like minds and this

is not the way we treat people,

not especially when we're taught to love

one another and care for the poor and

needy.

And I was just the one with the big mouth

that said what I had to say and took

the consequences for it at times,

but that's okay. I am who I am.

You didn't have a family member who

had experience as a legal professional.

How did you choose your

path as a paralegal when you

decided that was what you

wanted to do?

Well, I was a mother of two at the time.

I had wanted to work in a law firm.

David Crawford was a local attorney

at the time who had helped me

in a family matter.

And he had gone with a

new firm and asked me if I

would like to interview for an

administrative assistant type position,

which ended up leading into

me doing paralegal work

with a tax attorney. I'm

also a numbers person,

so history and numbers

have always been my thing.

So you've worked for a number of attorneys

over the years starting in the tax

attorney space. Who else have

you helped along the way?

So I worked with from 86 to

88, Bill West, Dave Crawford,

Randy James, Jeff Wood and

Phil Banks. And then in 88,

they split. I went to work with

Griff Morgan and Kevin Morton.

And later in 91, Griff joined

Elliot, Pishko, Gelbin & Morgan,

and I was invited to come

and my time grandfathered in.

And I worked with them until 2014.

That also included Helen

Parsnet, Frederick Evans,

Alice Chen, numerous other

attorneys that came through there.

I left there in 2014 on

the very last day of my

25th year there and took

a couple months off.

My youngest son was home from overseas.

He played professional basketball there.

Spent a couple of months just

hanging out with him basically and

housework and chores and fixing

up things that had not gotten

fixed up because I was always working.

Then I interviewed with Dagot Schuler

and started in August of that year. Have

been here and worked with, of course,

David Daggett, Griff Schuler, John Koontz,

Doug Nellman, Julie Bell.

Worked directly with Doug,

Mike Clark, Andrea

Pledger when she was here,

Megan Youngblood and

Ben Winikoff mainly now.

And I have known Ben since he

came as a teenager to help us

work on some discovery and summary

judgment documents at Elliot Pishko.

So Ben's relationship with

you goes back a while, huh?

It does. And went to church

with his mom and dad for years.

It's a small world when

it all circles back.

What is it about being a litigation

paralegal that is, I don't know,

particularly exciting

or invigorating for you?

Well, one, I love helping people.

And litigation sometimes is

that hardest process for clients

because they have to relive it all.

They have to go abide by

the rules and the schedules,

and that's really hard for them.

But if you put a lot of effort in,

you work hard to gain their trust.

If you understand what's necessary to

get them to that next level through

depositions and mediation

and potentially trial,

you've built up the trust with them and

for them. You've done the hard work.

I like getting ready for all those

things. I like participating in them.

I had good attorneys that I worked

with for years at Elliot Pishko

that involved me in every

step of that process,

which helped me because I learned all

the rules of evidence and the rules of

court, both state and federal.

And I understood what was

necessary to get us to trial. And

I prepped witnesses and

did what was necessary to

get ready for trial. And

I absolutely love it.

One attorney told me that was where I

was at my best and just getting ready for

trial.

Are there any cases or clients that

you've encountered along the way

where you thought it was the right thing

to do to get into this is right exactly

where I need to be? Do anyone in

particular, one story come to mind?

Oh, numerous ones. I did a lot of

civil rights and employment law.

I worked on several race

discrimination cases,

sex discrimination cases,

several age discrimination

cases in the civil rights arena

also free speech cases where

employees stepped up and spoke out

about what they were seeing.

And I always remember those and

take pride in working on those.

In the personal injury arena, yes. I mean,

people who have had catastrophic

injuries that you know they'll

never be made whole, but

you can really work hard,

care about them, respect them,

give them everything you've got.

And I believe in that.

And I have fortunately

worked for attorneys who have

done that year after year.

There are also clients who don't have

catastrophic injuries but have been harmed

and they don't know how to get help other

than coming to an attorney. And again,

I'm proud to have worked for attorneys

throughout my career that actually care

about the quote average

Joe just will help.

And I hope most of the clients I've

ever worked with have felt that for me.

I actually have a few from

back in the '90s and 2000s

that still stay in touch with and

I stay in touch with them too.

Well, yeah, it's got to work both ways.

You couldn't have known

when you were 10 years old,

11 years old writing the

letter to President Nixon

that being a paralegal would

be the way to sort of fulfill

that need you had to address

societal ills.

That's right. I didn't know.

That was where the path that I would take.

Always knew I had a big mouth and

was going to say what I had to say.

Didn't always serve me

well as a young person,

but it has served me well as an adult.

Found a way to make it work

for you. That's awesome.

You also have an extremely active

volunteer life outside the office,

which is probably why those home chores

didn't get done because you were in

addition to being a mom

and a full-time paralegal,

you also had what looks to be

a full-time volunteer life.

What are some of the volunteer work

projects that have been most important to

you?

I worked with SCAN for about eight

years at Stop Child Abuse Now.

Went through the training to work with

parents who had issues on different

levels of abuse, but how to

help them work with anger,

frustration, raising

children. And I love kids.

What is the mission of SCANT?

I'm not familiar with that group.

It's to aid families and taking

care of their children so that

there isn't that cycle of

abuse that repeats itself.

And wonderful group of people. I

worked with some wonderful families.

One of them I'm still in touch with

to this day. Yo focus on the parent,

not so much the children.

As my mother would also say,

I'm a kid magnet And kids love me.

And so those children became mine too.

In fact,

two of them lived with me off and on for

two years in my two bedroom apartment

with my two children. But that's how

important it was to make sure they stayed.

They were twins,

stayed together while their

mother had some illness issues.

So I enjoyed doing that.

I worked for family services

up until several years ago as

a volunteer both for domestic

violence and working with

sexually abused victims,

which meant I would go to the hospital

when there was a sexual assault victim

and assist the SANE nurse or the

person or if they had their children

with them, I'd watch over them.

I'd help bag and tag evidence.

It was just the way to give to someone

who was going through a really horrible

situation. With the domestic violence,

it was a matter of taking

a call someone needed help,

someone needed the police to pick them

up and take them to a safe location. So

I'm proud of doing that, but I did

a lot of volunteer work at the Y.

I have done volunteer work here

with the safe sober program that has

gone on for 30 some years.

I also worked the Kids for Kids Triathlon,

which is a joyous occasion to

see young people participating

in that sports event and the Smiley Race,

which is the adults triathlon. It's

actually coming up this weekend,

Saturday and Sunday. So be

out there in that hot sun.

That kind of volunteer work with

the victims of domestic abuse and

domestic violence and helping the

parents in the child abuse cases,

that's got to take a lot.

That's got to demand a great deal from

you to be able to do that on a volunteer

basis especially.

I think I said when I got the award,

my kids have been supportive always.

And just about everything I've done,

just like I've been supportive

of them. Bucame with SCAN,

these kids became their family too.

And they were very interactive in it,

which I think helped a lot

because I think everyone relaxes

around children more than they do

with adults. That's just my opinion.

They weren't as involved with the domestic

violence part because they were off

in college and then working. My

son Whit was overseas playing ball.

Yeah. Tell me,

you said during your speech that the most

important job you've ever had is being

a mom to your two sons and they were

there with you to see you get this

award as with your sister.

That was really great to have that

such a nice group together for you.

It was fun. And when they found

out I won, they said, "Well, mom,

we're going with you.

We now get to see you get an award."

But they are my joy and my heart.

And they worked hard, were good

students, both graduated college,

both went to college on basketball

scholarships. Thank you, Lord.

Where did they go?

Travis went to East Carolina,

played four years basketball there.

My son Whit went to Radford

University and played four years

there.

And that summer got a job overseas

and played 10 years in Europe

professionally.

Oh, wow.

Traus played two years in the

semi-pro league here in the

state and then had a knee

injury and had to have surgery.

And after that, he's taught and coached.

My son Whit came back and he's

worked in the school system as well

and coached.

Now Travis is the assistant head coach

or the assistant coach at Forsyth Tech,

which just started its

basketball program last year.

And Whit is assistant coach

at Forsyth Country Day School.

So you must have been quite involved for

your sons to have been such successful

athletes,

you must have also been quite involved

in managing their travel careers.

That's another full-time job.

Look, I still go to games.

I went to six games this weekend

for AAU that WIT coaches.

Okay.

And during the basketball season,

if Forsyth Tech is playing in town,

I go to their game. If

Forsyth Country Day is away,

if Forsyth Country Day is in town and

Forsyth Tech is away, I go to those games.

So I switch. And if they both play

the same day, but at different times,

I go to both games. Because

I get new kids every year.

I told you I love kids or young people.

I get new young people to love

and get to know each year.

What is the secret to being

a parent of successful

kids? What's the magic

dust that we all need?

Love them a lot and don't

put up with any crap.

They would tell you that

they used to say, "But mom,

but mom." And I'm pretty structured

and I'm a disciplinarian,

not tough disciplinarian,

but if I say jump,

you say how high.

And that's the way I raise most of the

time as a single parent. Fortunately,

I had a lot of family and friends,

so there was a large village

out there that helped me.

You have a lot of life experience

and wisdom to share with paralegals.

What are some tips you would offer

someone who's just starting out in this

field?

One, have compassion. Remember

you're there to help someone else.

To always be honest,

to be reliable for your

employer and for the client.

Learn the rules of evidence.

Learn the rules of court.

Use your skills on the computer.

There is so much new stuff out there,

especially with AI.

Learn how to draft pleadings

and draft discovery.

It'll save you down the road because it

takes a load off the attorney and that's

what a paralegal should do along

with all those other things.

Give them time to be able

to do more substantive work,

give them something to go by

that they can work their magic on

after you're finished with it. In fact,

I sent Ben something today. I said,

"Now it's your turn.

Work your magic." Have good relationships

with the people you work with.

I mean, I have been so fortunate.

I have worked with wonderful people.

I've been at three firms.

One firm joined another,

so I guess that means four.

But I've worked with wonderful

people where we all trust each other,

where we have teamwork, where we

make sure we help each other out.

I help other people out, but I ask for

help too, and I'm not afraid to do that.

And I've been doing this for

40 years, 40 years in March.

I'm really not at home.

You must have started when you were 12.

And my poor kids, I

was talking about them.

They turned out wonderful because

they're just wonderful people.

They're caring and loving.

Both work two jobs.

Both have always participated in

community events and I'm really

fortunate.

You've been a member of NCAJ

for most of your career.

What has been the most useful or

helpful or fulfilling part of being a

member of NCAJ for you over the years?

Well, I was always early on thankful

that there was an organization

that took seriously what

paralegals/legal assistants did

and their role.

And at the time it was the NCATL

and they did take it seriously and

they set up a committee and

I was honored to be on the

committee that chaired

membership enrollment issues.

I got to meet wonderful paralegals

across the state that I wouldn't have met

otherwise. So we were

able to network. I mean,

it was just absolutely wonderful.

And many of those people I'm

still friends with today. In fact,

after that award ceremony,

one of the now attorney who used to be

a paralegal sent me a note and I've got

to call her. Just as a reminder,

we sat beside each other

at convention and CLE just

to check in and say she was

sorry she didn't get to see me.

And I am so sorry I didn't get

to see her, but I stay in -.

Who was it?

Well, I don't know if she'd

want me to say her name,

so I'm not going to do that. I'm sorry.

That's fine.

Just because I haven't said

anything to her, so I don't feel...

Although I'm sure she's probably laughing

when she sees this like, oh my God,

I can't believe you

didn't do that. Anyway,

but I still keep up with two of

the original members of the group

that came and worked on

the paralegal division.

We keep in touch and have watched our

children grow as we've gotten older.

Again, older, not old,

I have to remind people.

But also the CLEs have

been great. In fact,

the one I did this year that

Julie Bell from our office puts on

about disbursements had a couple of

judges in it and it was one of the most

enjoyable ones that I've done in a

while. Not that they're not all good,

but it's just having the judges

there to explain their take on the

litigation process and trials

and how monies are dispersed and

what affects how monies can be dispersed.

It was really helpful.

And so I've enjoyed that.

But I'd say the networking is probably

the biggest thing. Long answer,

sorry about that.

No, no, that's great. We love to hear

what we're doing right so that's terrific.

You've done a lot of right for a long

time and social justice issues and

everything else. So kudos to NCAJ.

Thank you. Well,

kudos to you on an amazing career and

all you've done to help be a part

of NCAJ and also for the community.

And congratulations on your

award. It is very well deserved.

Thank you very much. I

appreciate you having me.

Rana, thank you for being on the podcast

and thanks everyone for listening.

If you'd like to know more about

NCAJ and how you can become

part of any of our divisions or sections,

including the paralegal division,

you can go to ncaj.com/join.

Thank you for joining us on

this episode of Voices of NCAJ.

For more information on the North Carolina

Advocates for Justice and how to join

or support NCAJ,

please visit our website at www.ncaj.com.