Explore the Ocean Floor: Why Mapping the Deep Matters and How You Can Get Involved

0:00 Have you ever wondered why it's so difficult to explore the ocean floor? It's a lot. It's the deep sea. There's a lot of pressure down there. It's, you know, 3000 meters deep at some points and even more at others. It's a very difficult environment to work in, but there are people around the world who are trying to map the ocean floor, who are trying to find ways to know more about the ocean floor, and I am very delighted to have on. Tim Kerns, executive director of MAP the Gaps, who is putting on a conference that is called Ocean Floor Explorer. It's happening at the end of October from the 26th to the 29th in Victoria, bc. It's gonna be open and it is open to international.

0:42 People who are interested in exploring the ocean floor and mapping the gaps, we're gonna talk about some of the major topics like funding, technology and storytelling, and getting people interested around the world of how they can get involved in finding out what's part of the ocean. All on this episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. Let's start the show. Hey everybody. Welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with the ocean, how you could speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean by taking action. You know, it's really interesting when things come full circle in 2003, 2004, back when I was a young lad and just getting into, you know, the ocean and ocean conservation and ocean science.

1:29 I did an advanced diploma doing a GIS analyst, and I did this diploma. It was an eight month diploma on the other side of Nova Scotia. I was doing my master's in and around the same time at Kid University on the Bay of Fundee side, and I can't happened to come across this advanced diploma. My supervisor's like, Andrew, you gotta take this. You should take this. I was like, it's a long drive. Compared to where I was living in Halifax was an hour and a half there and back, and I had to go every day of the week. It was a big investment, but it was probably the best investment that I made in my life because not only did I get an advanced diploma, that's helped me stay employed for a long time. But also I met some great people, and one of those people was a teacher that taught me remote sensing, and that's Tim Kerns.

2:09 Over the years, Tim and I kind of, you know, we parted ways after he taught me for a year. He went down to California, he stayed on the West coast and he did a number of different things, which we interviewed him on last time. He was on the podcast earlier in the summer. And I'll link to that interview down below in the show notes. But you know, we kind of reconnected through this project and it was through the podcast that I was able to learn about, map the gaps through a couple of friends and the networking that I've done through the podcasting. Then we got to reconnect and knowing that, hey, I know Tim Kerns, he's the executive director of Map to Gas, but he is also used to be my teacher when I was doing an advanced diploma in GIS analysis. And so I was like, this is really cool. This is gonna be such an easy interview 'cause we've known each other for so long and just haven't talked in a while.

2:52 So, you know, we spent a number of hours on the phone and over Zoom and over Riverside. Not only recording podcast episodes, but just discussing the importance of mapping the ocean floor and what that is going to look like and how to fund it. And now we're talking about a conference that he's helped put on for a number of different years, and it's a symposium and now a conference, and it's in BC and it's bringing people from all over the world together to discuss. How we're gonna map the ocean. We're getting closer and closer to doing it. We need to move faster and faster to do it. So this is getting even more important each and every year to start understanding how we could map the gaps, looking at different models from marketing to storytelling, to investing to funding. To actual use of technology and then mapping the gaps and then what to do with the data.

3:36 After that, it comes on the heels of the High Seas Treaty being ratified by 60 countries, which just happened a couple of days ago, or over the weekend, or just before the weekend. As of recording this podcast, September 22nd, and it is awesome just to see how everything is coming together full circle. And I love this, and I love the fact that I've been doing this podcast for so long, for 10 years and being able to. Reconnect with people that have been in my life that are doing new things and being able to bring their story and story of the stuff that they're working on, the projects that they're working on to you, to the audience who've been listening to me for whether it be 10 years, one year, less than a year, a couple of weeks, you be able to understand what's happening in the ocean and how we're trying to not only map the ocean, but just understand it and just in general.

4:20 And I think it's such a big thing that we have to do. It's something that I'm looking forward to being able to bring you and the information to bring you. So with all that said, this is gonna be a great interview, learning about the conference. If you want to go to the conference, please, you can register below. I would love to see you there. I'm gonna try and get to there as well. So if you want to do that, just register below. But here's the interview with Tim Kerns. Enjoy and I'll talk to you after. Hey Tim, welcome back to the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. Are you ready to talk about mapping the ocean floor? I am always ready to talk about mapping the ocean floor, especially when it involves undiscovered discoveries. Oh, I love it. I love it, man. Being prepared.

5:00 This is awesome. Uh, Tim, this is great to have you back on. We talked last time, uh, about Map the Gaps, the organization that is here, uh, that we're gonna be talking, focusing on today. But actually we're gonna be focusing on the conference that map the guests puts on, uh, and it's, it is Explore the Ocean Floor and it's happening at the end of October. In Victoria, bc Beautiful of Victoria, bc. Uh, and we're gonna talk about what's gonna happen there, why we think people should go. Uh, and I think this is a, a perfect opportunity for the audience that we have here to go to a conference, to, uh. Kind of network with a number of different people across different sectors of marine science, conservation, ex exploration, and so in technology, um, plus investors and funders and all these different types of people who are going to be there.

5:49 Um, it's gonna be great. So we're gonna be talking about that, but Tim, before we get into that, can you just remind people of who you are and what you do? All right. Well, thanks Andrew. It's great to be on your, uh, podcast again. Yes. Uh, and I feel like we've known each other a really long time now. A really long time. I've gotten to know you, uh, very well in the last couple months, which has been a real pleasure and a treat for me. Uh, so yeah, my name's Tim Kerns. I'm the Executive director of MAP the Gaps. I've been involved with Ocean Floor Exploration my whole career, going back to the late nineties. And uh, it's something that I'm very passionate about. And one of the reasons that I am is people sometimes ask, why do people like you? Do what you do? And part of it is that, uh, innate sense of discovery and exploration that almost all humans have, right?

6:31 Yes. Of being able to see and visualize something at the bottom of the ocean. That I know no other human has ever seen before. It's absolutely wild. And then the other part of why we do it, of course, is for the discoveries. Uh, either anthropogenic or cultural, or scientific mm-hmm. That can be, um, uncovered. Right. Really, I, I would say unearthed, but I think it's un oceaned and, uh, un oceaned. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Rex plane wrecks, canyons, hydrothermal vents, volcanoes, you know, interesting features. Sand dunes, uh, super wild marine life that may live down there. So yeah, we haven't even discovered before, like there's so many things.

7:12 We often say 75% of the oceans are unexplored, but really thinking of it of another way, 50% of Earth hasn't been explored. Like that's, yeah. Imagine buying a house and then af being in it for a while and realizing, yeah. I've never been in half this house before. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah. And uh, so that's how I like to look at it. I, and I love that now, you know, why do you like, you, you, we know why you love the ocean bottom. Like, we know why you want to discover and explore and you want other people to do it as well. What's your biggest pitch when somebody's like, why should I care about the ocean bottom? Like, what's the, how's it gonna benefit us? You know, in the long run? Well, there's, there's two big drivers for that I think.

7:55 And, uh, and sometimes we would call that the value proposition, right? Mm-hmm. What's the mm-hmm. Economic return on investment for me to invest in mapping the oceans? And it sort of depends on who you talk to. There's definite, um, uh, blue economy. Mm-hmm. That's what we refer to technology and innovation, uh, and the economic, uh, benefits from around this type of effort. Uh, there's just been a recent study published by the United Kingdom Hydrographic Office in June. I invite people to check it out. Um, I'll give you the link and we can put it in the, in the comments below. Absolutely. Um, and that describes how much of a return on investment there is, which is substantial. So from an economic standpoint, whether that's around better understanding, uh, the ocean for the resources that may be.

8:41 Uh, realized from it, understanding tidal energy and tidal currents, um, how the ocean moves benthic habitats. Mm-hmm. Um, of critters that live in the ocean, of course. Um, but then there's also that other side of it, which is the discovery side, and I think that provides a lot of. Maybe. Maybe it's not a direct economic value. Mm-hmm. But there's a real human value to that, which is knowing that we're exploring what's in our own backyard and knowing that the data that goes from that, particularly if it ends up in the public domain and is used for conservation purpose. Then we can better protect what we don't yet understand. And that, I would say that's the number one driver for most humans to get involved in this effort, which is how can we possibly protect the oceans if we don't understand the characterization of what they look like on the bottom?

9:32 Yeah. And it affects so many things from climate change to, uh, sea level rise to conservation and marine life to better protecting, uh, potential mining sites, right? Uh, which is making a lot of news headlines these days. Yeah, it's amazing. You know, when we, when we look at the, the ability that we have to do so to actually map the ocean bottom, the effort it takes that we think it'll take to do so, the challenges that we have to face or that we will face. To map the ocean bottom. It's big, it's vast, it's expensive. There's a lot of challenges with depth and pressure and so forth. Um, there's a lot of stuff going on.

10:13 I no doubt know that there is technology and people there who want to do this together to be able to map the ocean bottom for our collective wellbeing as, you know, humans who live on this planet. Um, but when we talk about such a a, a, a large. Thing to do, uh, knowing, like last time when we spoke, we talked about doing it in, in like small sections and then continue to make it larger and larger and build upon that, uh, and look at funding models and everything. But when we, when we discuss an idea like this, it's not just one person has this idea. There are many other people around the world, pieces around the world who are just like, we want to do the same thing. This is how we're gonna go about it. This is how we're gonna go about it.

10:54 And the best way to bring those people together to discuss and to for everybody to like share those ideas is a conference like, you know, ocean Floor explore. Like this is, you know, a conference where that'll help bring people together so that they can actually discuss all the different aspects of what it will take to map these gaps. Right? What it was gonna take to explore that, that ocean floor. And so. To do this. Like, I, now we know why we're doing this. We know why you like, map the gaps is hosting this conference, uh, in, in collaboration with, with other organizations, but really it's map the gaps driving this. I like, how are you bringing all these together? How are you? Like, is this, you know, 20 years of you?

11:37 Decades of you like being in the business and, and meeting people, uh, and saying, okay, these are the people would be good for this. Or I know this organization out here is working on this, or this investor is interested in this. How do you start bringing people together like this and, and how do you get the word out? Uh, that's a great question. Well, uh. I am sure you've heard the term, the network effect, right? Yes, absolutely. And uh, and I'm fortunate that I've worked in a number of different organizations over the course of my career and I'm a reasonably social and outgoing human being. Yes, you are. And I've met a lot of people and I have good relationship with lots of people as well. I've also been running a Map the Gap symposium since 2016.

12:17 And I've been fortunate to have attracted a bit of a following, not me personally, but Map the Gaps has attracted a following, has a lot of relationships with companies and organizations who are familiar with the symposium series and have had interest in the past or have attended in the past. Uh, I also in the people who attend the conferences. Uh, often it was 70, 80% was the first time they'd been to a mouth to cap symposium. Mm-hmm. Although this event has remained relatively small in terms of numbers being a hundred, 150 people, it's small enough that it still becomes more of an intimate affair. Where the networking opportunity is really, really good.

12:59 Mm-hmm. Which ultimately ends up amplifying the message of what we're trying to do. And I've also been fortunate through the math the Gap series to partner with different host organizations each year and have the benefits of sponsorship that come with. Uh, different companies and organizations that wanna support the event. So ranging from National Ocean National Oceanography Center in Southampton a couple years ago. International Hydrographic Organization in Monaco in 2023. Um, uh, in the Chilean Navy in 2016 was the first one, uh, that I was involved with doing. And then other organizations sponsoring, like Geosciences Australia, uh, geosciences Australia, noaa, uh, seabed 2030.

13:44 Mm-hmm. Key Carta Gro Schmidt Ocean Institute, Kongsberg, you know, there's all these ocean mapping related tech, and that's just a few of them who, who have come and supported these events now. I'm limited in my sphere because I'm not connected with. Wealthy individuals or investment firms or hedge fund managers and stuff, right. So I'm part of what we're doing through Ocean Floor Explorer, and that's what makes this conference different from the other map. The GAP symposium is really trying to develop this message of how can we expand the funding footprint and the mechanisms for ocean floor exploration. But it's not just the money, it's also how would we go about doing it?

14:28 And the how then brings in the technology, but also the people. Because sometimes people say, can you map? Can't you map the ocean from space? Or why can't you map the ocean from space? And the simple answer is, well, you can map some of the ocean from space. We need to rely on something called satellite derived bathymetry. Companies like Te Carta who will be here, are speaking at the conference, right? They have amazing algorithms and technologies for being able to produce. High resolution maps of the ocean floor from space, right? However, that technology is limited to a certain water depth and water clarity, so well then we have to rely on other technologies that can transmit sound from vessels to the bottom of the ocean.

15:11 But even that is limiting because not all sonar equipment can go all the way to the bottom of the ocean. So then you need bigger sonar equipment with bigger vessels that need to go further offshore. And so I like to think of this and my good friend Vicki Farini at uh, Lamont Dougherty Earth Observation would say it's a puzzle and we all need to contribute our own puzzle pieces to, uh, to this, whether it's funding, participation, technology, approvals. Right. Even ideas. Mm-hmm. This is where the startup communities come in. We've got index tech from, uh, the UK is coming. A very, very young startup company, but amazing ideas.

15:54 Uh, I think they're still in university, in fact, but that's the startup, that's the younger generation perspective with new ideas, new perspectives that we need to embrace. Yeah, because if we keep relying on the same people and the same organizations doing it, it's never gonna happen. So that's part of the purpose of the conference, is to bring all these people together and let's have the conversation about what do we need to do. I love it. It, it's, it's, uh, it's one of those things where there's so many different aspects. Me as like a, as a marine scientist, right, and loving technology and stuff, I see the benefits from a research standpoint, from a conservation standpoint to know as much information as possible. But I find sometimes when I'm in that I might, I get this tunnel vision where I'm just looking at, okay, what's good for marine research?

16:39 What's good for the benefit of conservation? You, you have come from a very different background than I have in terms of, you've coming from, uh, you know, you, you taught remote sensing and GIS and coming and, and you've, you've had a very, uh, interesting and diverse background, you know, going forward, like after that, uh, when we met in, in, in 2003, 2004, uh, working for ESRI and then, and then having a couple of your own, uh, co co-founding and founding companies of your own, what was the most surprising aspect of. Uh, this of of exploring the ocean and trying to get people, more people to map the gaps. What was the, the, the most surprising part that is a big part of, you know, the, the symposium now?

17:25 Well, one surprise I have, and may, may sound a bit negative, is it's actually hard to get people excited and I think that speaks to. The lack of awareness of a, how big the oceans are. And, and I don't mean that, uh, you know, critically of people. I think people, of course, it's hard to appreciate just how big the oceans are. Uh, I think some people don't appreciate how unexplored they really are. Mm. And that's because other mapping platforms like Google Earth, right, where you, you can see base maps of the ocean. Some of them are derived by interpreted measurements over.

18:06 Um, dozens of kilometers, which is fine to give us a general picture. Yeah. But go to any Google Earth and zoom into a few spots of the ocean and you'll see how degraded and pixelated, uh, quickly it gets. Mm-hmm. But many people don't realize that, that it's already been mapped. In the 1960s, national Geographic produced an artist rendition. It's very famous, of course, was on the cover. Uh, and many people thought back then, well, the oceans have been mapped because of this, this beautiful illustration. And it was really, that's exactly what it was. It was an illustration of what the depths looked like. Yeah. In part, based on, uh, uh, in part, based on measurements. Um, but nonetheless it was still, uh, largely an illustration and an artist rendition.

18:49 So that's a couple of big challenges. And then I think a third challenge, of course, is getting people to get excited enough about getting involved. Mm. And that's, that takes maybe some commitment or passion or investment. And that's part of what Ocean Floor explore is about, which is how do we ex excite people? Yeah. Whether they be people with money or people with ideas, or people with technology or people with approval and regulatory processes. How do we get them ex excited and involved? So to me those are kind of the challenging parts of this conference. I would love it if this conference was 500 people or a thousand people. Right. Um, and maybe the next time we do it, it will be.

19:29 Mm-hmm. But for now, we're, uh, I feel like we're at the beginning of a conversation for how do we get serious about exploring the ocean floor and how do we take the power of what Seabed 2030 has been doing for the last, uh, eight or nine years, and convert that. Uh, energy into actionable exploration. And, uh, that's the, to me, the really exciting part about the next decade I think, of what we're moving into. And I think there's like a, a, a push and pull or an advantage and disadvantage of, of getting more and more people involved. You know, when you get more people involved, it's great 'cause you get more eyes on it, more years on it, more ideas. And it's, and it's great to, to put those ideas forward and evaluate those ideas.

20:12 But then you get some, like, again, the, the conservation side coming out and you get people who want to, you know, exploit. The ocean for a lot of different things. Like, like we've exploited land in the, in the past, and that could have consequences, uh, in that. So I, there's, there's advantages and d disadvantages, of course. Um, but right now the advantage of just is, is, I, I agree with you. I, I feel like sometimes the deep sea, just like sometimes in space. It's so out of context for us. It's like a lot of us don't, probably won't go to space in our lifetime, um, some more than others, but it is cost a lot of money a apparently to go, to go to space if you want to go to space now. Uh, and that's for like two minutes, but it even like the depth of, of the sea, it's very difficult to get there.

20:53 It's expensive to get there and so it's very difficult to tie that. To people's and understanding of like, Hey, this is why this is important. Um, and I feel like storytelling comes in to that aspect too, of, you know, having great stories to. Discuss the importance of the deep sea, uh, discuss the mystery of the deep sea and, and what we don't know yet about, you know, the bottom of the ocean that could help us in the future, or just the knowledge of that could help us in the future, even protecting it in the future. Do you find that, like, I know you, you have been, you, you and I have a, a common, uh, a common friend and colleague, uh, Natalie Gilson, who's been, you know, is, is a big part.

21:34 Of the storytelling context of a lot of, of Canadian organizations, uh, working for Pisces. And do you find that's like putting in it in that context, do you think that's like a gap that people have? Not only just in in ocean in general, but especially in like exploring the deep sea and trying to bring that out, that emotion out for people to say, Hey, you know what, like this is why this is important. Yeah, a hundred percent. That's a great question. Uh, we have a whole session called, uh, communication strategies, uh, uh, at Ocean Floor Explorer, uh, moderated by Sophie Silks from coast. And then, as you mentioned, Natalie Gilson from Pisces is on it, as well as Joy Ani from Schmidt Ocean and Heather Manix from Compass.

22:20 Um, that's precisely the purpose of that session is to talk about communication methods and strategies. How do we reach people? How, how do we get people excited? Because not everyone gets excited by science, uh, or science for the sake of science, especially if it's not in context to something that they're familiar with. Mm-hmm. And whether those stories are. Here's an example. Just, uh, Dr. Don Wright from Esri. She's the chief scientist and, uh, uh, first woman of color to go to the deepest part of the ocean. Yeah. With Victor Vivo. Uh, a few years ago, she just recently did an interview with NPR, and as part of that, one of the NPR illustrators made a, a comic strip, uh, describing her journey, but also the importance of deep sea mapping.

23:10 Yeah. And it was a great way to illustrate and communicate. Uh, something that's so important to so many people. And, but it was also a unique perspective because you don't see a lot of comic strips or comic style, uh, you know, presentation pieces or media assets on, on this, on this topic. And that's just one. I think another one is, and maybe we will learn at ocean floor explorers, can we do something with mass media? Mm-hmm. Can we leverage social media more? To make people aware, get people excited, and get people interested and, and, uh, invested in this either financially or, or, or otherwise. And, uh, so I, I think that's a huge part. That's probably one of the biggest challenges is, is identifying that's, that's another gap map.

23:53 The gaps isn't just about the physical mapping, it's also about bridging those gaps of who's doing what and who's involved. Yeah. Uh, that's why the tagline for the company is Connected Oceans and Connected People, because really this is a people, this is, this is a human mission. This is not a science mission. No. Absolutely, and I, I think something that always gets me, you talk about storytelling and getting people interested in deep sea, there's, uh, I, I, I doom scroll quite a bit on online. I try and keep it to oceans and football that's in hockey. That's my, that's what I try and keep it to. But every once in a while, I come across this. This, this video, and it's these deep sea biologists. They're in a ROV and they're like, they find these animals and they're like, oh, look, it's such and such animal.

24:37 Or it's like a new octopus species, or this is, we haven't seen this one in a while. And, and there's really cute little animals and like really interesting shapes and sizes and colors and bioluminescence and everything like that. And they're, you hear like the, the geekiness in the science of like the nerdiness in the scientists being like, oh, look what we have here and it's all this kind of fun. And I feel like that helps. I feel like when people can see that there are actual animals that are living at the bottom, when there's actually things and, and there's characteristics that are similar to what we see on land or even in the oceans, like in the shallow oceans. People really get involved in that. And I feel like there's a component there for. Uh, you know, for, for just mapping the ocean bottom in almost like a, a, a double benefit or as they're mapping the bottom, people can take these types of pictures and take these type types of videos and be like, look what we found in this area.

25:26 And nobody would've known this if we didn't, if we weren't down here, and stuff like that. And really just generate the curiosity and, and really, uh, inspire the curiosity of more people to get, to get to the deep sea, uh, and be able to like. Hear from the people who are exploring it from yourself and others who will be at this conference who are like, no, we're gonna go to the bottom, or we're gonna see the bottom. We're gonna send ROVs at the bottom and we're gonna be talking about them. And I think that's like. One of the big, big storytelling grabs that we can take and take advantage of when, when people are gonna the bottom to get people interested in funding more projects or just like, Hey, I wanna see this area in the Indian Ocean or this area in the, in the Mid-Atlantic bite, or something like that to see what's there, you know?

26:08 Um, right. I think that would be, I think that would be a really, a really cool thing, um, to have in, in that aspect. Right. Well, let me speak to that. So, uh, one of the, the keynote for Monday, October the 27th is Moron Harris, uh, also known as, uh, the imaginative scientist, right? And she's got hundreds of days at sea, a very accomplished human being as an oceanographer and a researcher. And she'll be speaking specifically at the conference about those. Perspectives of discoveries on the ocean floor and, and maybe she'll talk about how some of them could even be used for advancing medical science. Mm. So imagine if we can make discoveries on the sea floor that would ultimately end up benefiting humans from a medical perspective, either through treatments for diseases or medicines or whatever it may be.

26:58 And that's a whole unique perspective, but it makes it extremely relatable. To humans, of course, of the importance of doing this on the second day. Then we've got Victor Visco, of course, another phenomenal and accomplished adventurer and human being will be talking about technology that he's developing, which would help aid this effort. And, uh, so once again, two very different mm-hmm. Keynote speakers, but helping, uh, add perspective in that human dimension. Um, to this, we've got a number of other companies who will be showcasing their technologies at Ocean Tech Live. The demo Day, which is hosted by Coast, uh, the Center for Ocean, uh, applied Sustainable Technologies here in Victoria.

27:39 And that's, uh, just across the street from the Victoria Conference Center, and there'll be a dozen and a half at least companies there. Presenting technologies. Not all of them related to ocean floor exploration, but, and that's okay. I mean, right. A lot of the technologies that are being developed in the blue economy space, um, ha, have in some part be, are able to survive because of the bathymetry that's been mapped in these areas. We've got seaweed, uh, technology companies. We've got technologies making semi-autonomous and autonomous vehicles. We've got telecommunication companies. Um, companies that are making really important sensors that need to go on vehicles that go under the bottom of the ocean, you know? Yeah. So all of this relates to ocean exploration and ocean discovery, and, uh, they're a part of this event because of what we're trying to do.

28:27 So I think there's, once again, that networking effect of amplifying the message, getting more people interested and excited about ocean, and ocean technology and ocean floor exploration is real. The real key here. It is such a key. And, and again, there's so many different types of people coming, like with a lot of different backgrounds, international backgrounds, uh, not just Canadians, where, where this is taking place, uh, which is, which is really impactful things because people are gonna bring their own stories, their own, uh, style of, of, uh, doing professional projects and, and getting together and speaking together. How big is it for, for the conference and for the symposium? Um, to get people from different backgrounds, like from all over the world to come together.

29:09 I think we mentioned before, before we record, there's gonna be people from like the Middle East, from, from Asian countries, from South America, from all over the place, uh, to come together and, and be able to exchange ideas and then at the conference. How is that gonna be facilitated other than just. You know, having dinners together and lunches together and so forth, and just being in the same room. But are there any, uh, parts of the, uh, of, of the conference that are gonna be dedicated towards just exchanging ideas? Uh, yeah, so that's a great idea. There's. Pardon me. A great question. Uh, it's fantastic having international representation. Uh, it really speaks to the diversity of who's involved mm-hmm. In this activity, this global activity.

29:51 It's not a, not a North American or right. Western Nation initiative. This is a global initiative. Uh, really being led by CBE 2030. I mean, and they've got over 200 companies that are from all over the world who are part of this, in addition to national governments and academic institutions that are part of CBE 2030 as well. So, CED 2030 has done a great job and they of course, will be representing the, um, their organization. And their efforts, they're bringing the Bathie sphere, which is this inter interactive physical globe display. So members of the public could potentially come, or maybe people who are attending the conference could interact and learn about that and visually see what's happening. International representation also brings different perspectives and different ideas, and there is a, in addition to the networking and the questions after the sessions, uh, there's a whole workshop on Tuesday afternoon.

30:44 That's October the 28th. Called aspirational funding mechanisms for mm-hmm. Floor exploration. And that's co-hosted with, uh, Jeb Co, which is the general bath metric chart of the oceans and map the gaps. Bring together thought leaders to spark conversation. No presentations, no long monologues here. This is about asking a few hard questions. Getting some unique perspectives and then getting people in the room to talk about it. Mm. To talk about their experiences, their crazy ideas or new ideas or perspectives, and, and then hopefully convert that into an action plan that we can then carry forward beyond this conference. Uh, it's, it's no good just to talk about this stuff.

31:25 You have to capture the ideas. Yeah. And then you have to put, you know, an action plan. Uh, so I'm very much looking forward to that Aspirational, uh, funding models, uh, workshop with, uh, Jeb bco. I think it's gonna be a really interesting perspective. There's two lenses to that. One is inside national jurisdictions and another is outside because mapping in inside territorial waters. Carries, uh, a different price tag for one. Yeah, a different level of complexity when there's, uh, national governments involved, there could be levels of national security permitting, bureaucracy, who knows, right? There's lots of different reasons for why it's challenging to map inside national waters.

32:06 Conversely, there's also lots of reasons why it's challenging to map outside of. National waters. Uh, just because it's the high seas doesn't mean it's easy. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so we'll be talking about, uh, strategies for how to explore that as well. Well, and, and just to mention, uh, the, the. The Highs Seas Treaty just got ratified. They just hit the 60, 60 country mark, so that could be more of a conversation than ever because they, there might be some rules, uh, in that treaty around mapping the ocean floor. So hopefully there could be some benefits to discussing that in this conversation when it just, just got ratified this past weekend as of recording this. So, uh, in, in September. So this is, this is good news and it's good to be able to have an international audience that are probably interested.

32:51 I mean, we're obviously, we're interested in mapping. All of the oceans. So it's not just the ones within the exclusive economic zones, but uh, but even in the High Sea. So it's good to have some rules and, and regulations around that and getting countries to, uh, put that into place. So that'll be, uh, that'll be really nice. So, right. Yeah. So that'll be good. Um, okay, so, so just to, to move on a little bit too, is getting more into the funding because I feel like that's a real, obviously a really important part that a lot of the times. Uh, may considered not as sexy in terms of like, it's better to like watch a video of someone going down to the bottom of the ocean and being able to see what's on the bottom and map the bathymetry and, and all that kind of stuff. Um, but funding is, is essential in that, uh, we're not talking about funding just from.

33:38 Foundations and grants and so forth. We're looking at like private companies, investors, venture capitalists that will be attending these, this conference and having these discussions and, and you know, trying to understand the dynamics of what could come out of this. What's the, like, we, we talked a little bit about the funding mechanisms and, and things like that, but. What do you hope to, at the end of this conference to have, uh, an idea of or better understanding of when it comes down to funding? Uh, that's a great question, ed. At the end of the conference, what I would really like to have an understanding is inside national jurisdictions or.

34:20 What are the top five pathways to funding? Is that through high net worth individuals? Is that corporate donations? Mm-hmm. Is that, uh, people like my mom who want to give a hundred dollars? Right. Ocean floor discovery. Is it school groups that want to be able to, uh, identify or adopt a little piece of the ocean floor as their own? In exchange for a great map that they get to hang on their wall. Mm-hmm. Uh, is it a high net worth individual that wants to make a name, a lasting legacy for themself by, uh, sponsoring 1% of the Indian Ocean or something? Yeah. Um, is it, is it a, is it an approach to national governments to share the, uh, share the investment and everyone chip in.

35:09 Um, across the board. And so we can have sort of an international collaboration maybe at the UN level, and we have representatives of the UN who will be at the meeting to talk about internationally, how can national government support this. Mm-hmm. Maybe people chip in, maybe, so there's, that's another strategy. And all of these may take. Many years to execute, but at least it would be more clear than what we have today, which I think is not a coordinated or consolidated list of the different vehicles that are available for funding this type of initiative. Uh, so that would be my. Probably single largest, uh, takeaway from that is the identification of realistic funding mechanisms that could be then further explored.

35:54 Yeah, at subsequent conference, sub subsequent workshop, or maybe more targeted events that say, all right, well if we're gonna do something with national governance, all right, then how do we work within. The, um, uh, intergovernmental Oceanographic Commission and the International Hydrographic Organization to work together with these national governments to up their contributions. I, I don't know the answer. Mm-hmm. Of course. Mm-hmm. That's hopefully what we're gonna get out of. Or maybe the answer is, well look, every day people would be interested in this, so how do we reach them? Maybe we need to develop a campaign, a marketing campaign. Yeah. To get them excited about this and give them an opportunity and a pathway. To get involved, to get excited to make an investment or a, or a donation, I'm sure.

36:37 And Tim, I see a perfect opportunity to talk about corporate donors as well. I see a perfect opportunity for the NHL team, the Seattle Kraken, they're deep sea species. They're trying to represent. This is a perfect opportunity for them to maybe get some right off the coast, you know, off the coast where they are in Seattle. Like, let's, we'll just send this clip out to them and see if they're, they're interested in, in investing into the deep sea and protecting their crack and their deep sea, uh, their deep sea squids, because I mean, that's, that's just perfect. It's right there. It's, it's right there. They can come to the conference, send their mascot, whatever they want to do. Just an idea. Just an idea. Wow. That's perfect. And, and to add that the Kraken probably don't realize that Map the Gaps is actually registered in the state of Washington, uh, as a nonprofit company. So there you go.

37:17 It's perfectly appropriate. Absolutely a hundred percent agree. Uh, and, and you know, speaking of like what we want, like what you want to get out of this or what you want the conference to get out of this, um, you know, when we talk about funding, obviously we can probably go into each and every category. Um, but what do you want, like when, when the people come, you know, we're looking at about 150 people, maybe a little bit more. Um, if we can get 200, great. Uh, what do you. Want them to get out of this conference? Like the people who attend, what do you, what's the goal when they go to this conference? What, what thought process should they be in and, and what mindset should they be in to say, Hey, I'm gonna get as much as I can out of this conference?

38:02 Uh, well, uh, as long as I've been doing these conferences, Andrew, 2016, I've had a little, uh, catchphrase or what you call it, um, for what the purpose is. And the purpose is to listen and to learn. And engage. So ultimately that's what I'm hoping attendees will get out of the event, is to be a part of it. Yeah. And not feel like they're just attending and, and being an observer. Mm-hmm. But actually engaging and being able to take that either back to their homeowner home organization or back to their school or back to their community, whether it's technology or investor or whatever it is. Um, and be able to noodle on that and then eventually translate that into some sort of action.

38:45 Yeah, maybe there's their own, uh, individual contribution. Maybe it's an organizational contribution, maybe it's influence that they have over some politician or group to affecting policy or investment. Um, and then I think the other thing that I always try to do at these conferences is really instill a sense of community, uh, the professional and personal networking that you get. These are the types of events. Like I said, it's small enough that you can meet everybody, you can approach anybody, uh, and hopefully walk away with a new colleague or a friend. Mm-hmm. Um, that's part of the purpose of these events as well. And we provide lots of networking time, lots of coffee breaks, lunch breaks, social events and receptions in the evening, and those are 100% dedicated to people using that opportunity to network.

39:31 Meet new people, uh, learn from others, listen to them, and, uh, and ultimately engage. No. Amazing. And I, I think it's interesting too, like one of the things that I always tell people is, is especially in a, in a conference like this where you're getting so many different types of sessions and topics, is to go into the sessions you're not familiar with. And learn from them. Learn what's happening in the funding areas, learn what's happening in the tech areas. Learn, learn what's happening during the pitch fest and, and the investor, and see how people are tr are, are, you know, pitching themselves and, and what discussions are happening in each of these sessions. That they can get the most and get a whole, a comprehensive understanding of what's happening.

40:12 Don't just sit in your niche, in your topic area and just do that, you know, do that, but also explore others. Um, if there's time and you're able to go to those sessions, it looks like there's plenty of time from the schedule which is up. I'll put the link in in the show notes, but it's uh, ocean floor explore.org/schedule. And you can see what you can test out at the beginning and be like, okay, I'm gonna go to the funding model because I don't know a lot about funding and I wanna be a part of this conversation. Like you said, you know, you know, it is just, you're there. You, you soak it up and then you engage. And I think it's really important for people to do that and have the confidence to do that and, uh, 'cause the people will be open to any kind of ideas. And I think that's really, uh, really important. But Tim, this has been such a great.

40:54 Uh, privilege to have you on and to be able to share, uh, ocean floor explore, uh, with, with the people of this audience, which I, which I love to death. And so I want to thank you so much for, for coming on and would love to have you back on, of course, to talk. Uh, about the conference and, uh, what happened at the conference. So we'll do like a follow up one. I think it'll be a lot of fun. Um, but if people want to go, they haven't, they haven't, uh, thought about doing it yet as of now to, to register. But if they wanna register, um, is there a, a specific link that they can go to? Um, I'm looking on the website here. It looks like it's ocean floor explorer.org/register. Is that the, that's the right link. That's correct.

41:34 And there's still room, there's still time to register up until, uh, around, uh, October the 15th if you haven't registered yet. Okay. I do know that the hotel room blocks are pretty much sold out, almost sold out. So if, uh, people are interested in booking that at the Grand Pacific Hotel, then they need to get on that quickly. Uh, that's ocean floor.org/slash travel, uh, to find out the details on that. There's also a discount with Alaska Airlines and FRS Clipper coming up from Seattle. Okay. So there's, there's still opportunities and for people to get involved. Um, and it's a single track conference, uh, meaning that all the sessions, you don't need to choose that they'll, they're all sequential. Perfect. And, uh, I look forward to having hopefully lots of people, uh, sign up and attend.

42:18 Yeah, I think it'll be, it'll be really great. So we'll put the link there. Sign up, uh, let them know when you signed up that you heard it from How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. This is all done for free. Folks. I'm not getting any money outta this. I, this is something that's just super interesting to me and I want people to attend and, uh, and, and get the most out of it. So go sign up@oceanfloorexplore.org slash register. And Tim, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing this. And I look, I look forward to attending and, and being a part of the conversation. Great. Thanks Andrew. Always a pleasure and I look forward to the next one. Alright, see ya. Thank you, Tim, for joining us again on the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. It was great to have you on. Great to learn more about the conference. Now that the schedule's out, I think it's gonna be interesting for everybody to go and learn about what's happening.

43:01 As Tim said, it's a one track type of conference where everything, you know, you're not gonna miss out on anything. A lot of times conferences put on so much that the sessions are at the same time and you have to like, oh, how do I get to this one and this one at the same time? I can't do it. This is one track. You just learn everything right off the bat. You have that ability to join each and every session and take part and participate. I think it's gonna be really interesting to do that. So I want you guys to head out there, go to Ocean Floor explore.org/register to register for the conference. It's not an expensive conference if you're on the West Coast already, it's right there. If you're international, there's ways to get there. I'd hope to see you there. And if you do get there and people say, Hey, how did you learn about this conference?

43:42 Say is from how to protect the ocean. I love to just get that name out there and be like, oh, I don't know what, how to protect the ocean is, it's a podcast that you need to listen to and get more and more people listening to the podcast as I try and get more and more people to go to these conferences. So I think that's gonna be something that's extremely important and I would love to see you guys get there and be able to be there and be able to take part and be able to have. A say in mapping the ocean in the future. So that's it for today's episode. If you have any questions or concerns or comments, please let me know. You can put your comments in the comments below if you're watching this on YouTube, or you can go ahead and get ahold of me on Instagram at how to Protect the Ocean. Just DM me. At How to Protect the Ocean. And if you really want to get access to me, go to speak out for blue.com/contact and you'll be able to fill out the form.

44:26 It goes right to my personal email. I'd love to get back to you as soon as possible. I wanna thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the True Norstrom and Free. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time in Happy Conservation.