The Invisible Climate Engineers Running Our Ocean

0:00 What if some of the most important climate solutions on Earth are invisible? Not whales, not coral reefs, not even forests, microbes. Tiny organisms smaller than a grain of sand regulate the planet's climate, produce a huge number of the oxygen we breathe, and move massive amounts of carbon through the ocean every single day. Scientists are now exploring how some of these organisms could even help us capture carbon dioxide and fight climate change. But today's conversation goes beyond micros and biotechnology because our guest is asking a much bigger question. If science understands life so well at the molecular level, why does it struggle to help us understand how we live? This is how to Protect the Ocean podcast, your weekday ocean conservation podcast. If you want to stay informed about ocean science, conservation, and the people working to protect our ocean planet, make sure you follow the podcast so you don't miss next week's episode.

0:56 Today I'm speaking with Dr. Jose Angel Moreno-Cabezuelo, a synthetic biologist working in Oxford where he leads research engineering sound of bacteria, some of the oldest organisms on Earth, to capture carbon dioxide using sunlight and biology. His work sits at the intersection of biology, climate solutions, and biotechnology, using microorganisms as light-powered living factories that can help us rethink how we produce materials and reduce emissions. But Dr. Moreno Cabezuelo is also exploring something deeper. After years inside the scientific systems, publishing papers, and presenting research around the world, he began asking difficult questions about how science communicates knowledge and why so much of it fails to connect with people it's meant to serve. That journey led him right to the book, Heartbeats of Consciousness, a story that blends neuroscience, biology, philosophy, and the human experience of understanding life. Today we're going to talk about microbes that help run the planet, the promise of biological climate solutions, and why science might need to rethink how it speaks to the world. Here's the interview with Jose and Joy and I'll talk to you after.

2:02 Jose, welcome to the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Are you ready to talk about microbes and cyanobacteria? Yes, ready and really excited for that. All right, I'm excited as well. You know, we don't get to talk about microbes a lot, but they're such an important part of the ocean that I think it's really important when you when you connect with me Jose. And you're like, Hey, this is what I do. I talk about cyanobacteria. I work with it. I do research on it. And I'm like, Okay, this is cool because we need to talk more about microbes, especially when we talk about climate change, cyanobacteria. There's so much we need to get into. So we're going to talk about your research in it, how you got into and how you got your PhDs, how you got your PhDs in it, how you got your PhDs, how you got your PhDs in it, how you got your PhDs in it, how you got your PhDs in it, how you got your PhDs in it. There's so much we need to get into. So we're gonna talk about your research in it, how you got into it, how you got your PhD and so forth, and where you are today and what you're doing with this.

2:43 But before we do, let's talk a little bit about yourself and get to know you a little bit. Let's start off with who you are and what you do. Hi, Andrea. First of all, thank you for this opportunity. I am Jose Angel. I'm a molecular biologist based in Osfor, United Kingdom. I'm from nearly more than 10 years. I have been working specifically with an organism called Cenobacteria, some of the most abundant photosynthetics organisms on Earth. So I did my PhD in Spain, studying how this organism regulate glucose uptake and metabolism in species like Cinecococcus, Plocococcus, which are organisms very interesting because it dominates much of the global ocean.

3:27 And since then, I have been working in different countries, Spain, Portugal, now in the UK, including the development of fast-growing Cenobacteria strain as a renewable platform for carbon capture and sustainable bio-manufacturing. And today I am leading Cenobacteria research in a company called Cenocapture in Osfor in order to produce a wide range of compounds. Because you can use this Cenobacteria in order to produce like compounds like biomedical compounds, biofuel, and so many compounds that have a lot of applications.

4:13 But the thing about the technical details and publication, the thing that most still amaze me is this. And it is this organism that I am studying every day in the laboratory, are responsible for around half of the oxygen that we breathe. So think about that. And most of the people don't even know that they exist because we tend to protect what we see, but it is what we don't see that keep us alive. And that's why I felt such a strong connection with your podcast, Andrew, because protecting the ocean, it is not just about protecting the water, it's about protecting the invisible system that sustains life itself. So today, Andrew, I want to start the podcast in a slightly different way.

5:05 And this is a good exercise for the audience. So I want you and the audience to close your eyes for a moment. Just three seconds. Okay, done. And now, when you have them close, feel something happening right now without you having to do anything for it to happen. And your head is beating. So you cannot put your eyes and that head beats depend on oxygen. And a wrong half of that oxygen comes from microscopic marine organism, not from forest alone, from the ocean, because the ocean is not, you know, out there. It is circulating through you right now.

5:56 When we think about the ocean, you know, most of the people we imagine, whales, coral reefs, sharks, wave crossings, a cliff. But the true engine in the true engine of this, the ocean is invisible. It's the phytoplactone. And among them cyanobacteria. They are microscopic. You can see them drifting in open water. And yet they regulated atmospheric chemistry, absorb carbon dioxide and products oxygen. And actually, let me show you something. So this may look nothing special, just a green liquid in a flask. But when you are looking at here, are billions of cyanobacteria cells performing photosynthesis right now. So they are absorbing light.

6:54 They are fixing carbon dioxide. They are releasing the oxygen. So this is getting culture. We think about that. Multiply across the region of the ocean is what established our atmosphere. And what fascinated me is that something so visually and impressive is this biolike monumental. You don't need a whale to regulate climate. Sometimes you need just cells, tiny ones. So now, right, billions of them. Absolutely. Now here is something extraordinary.

7:35 Because the king of organisms you just saw in that flask, one changed entire planet. Because around 2.5 billion years ago, the unsinsane bacteria began releasing oxygen as a bioproduct of photosynthesis. And at the time, Earth's atmosphere contained almost no free oxygen. Life was mostly anaerobic. So oxygen was in fact toxic to many organisms that they started to appear. But over a million years, oxygen accumulated in the atmosphere in Wagway, Nokal, the Great Oxidation Event. And that changed everything. It transformed the ocean chemistry, it received the atmosphere, it made complex life possible. So without that shift, there will be no animals, no forest, and we won't be here now having this conversation.

8:33 The air, for example, that we bred today is in many ways the legacy of those microorganisms. And what fascinates me is this, it's the smallest organism in the ocean. One, recites the chemistry of the entire planet. Because we often think planetary chain requires, for example, something massive, for example, tectonic plates, volcanic eruption, asthetic impact. But sometimes planetary transformation comes from biology, from cells, from tiny ones.

9:16 The historical purpose matters because it reminds us that the ocean is not a passive background. It's an effective regulatory system and it has saved Earth before and also it continues to to save it now. But, Andrew, here is the paradox. Because the same organism that once received the Earth as more fair and now living in an ocean that it is changing very, very fast. Because as you know, the ocean and the peritor are rising. The surface water are becoming more stratified, which limits nutrient mixing from deeper layers. The carbon dioxide dissolves into sea water and it's chemistry and contributing to one big problem that we have nowadays, that it is decidification.

10:08 And at the microbial level, this changes of course matter. Because cyanobacteria are highly sensitive to light intensity, temperature range, nutrient availability, even a small sea can alter growth rates, community composition and metabolic balance. And because this organism sit at the base of the marine food waste, change at a level that don't stay microscopic. Because they propagate through the food waste, affecting primary productive, for example, carbon cycling and the dynamic of entire ecosystem. Because probably most of us, we have we have to say like we are warming the planet. But in reality, we are altering the operating condition of the very organism that made our system possible.

11:00 And that should make us stop. But not of fear, but auto perpestive. Because when you tune out across billion of years of earth history, you release something very important. Because we are not outside of the system. We are modifying the same biological engine that sustain us. And one of the most interesting aspects of this issue isn't, I think that isn't biological. It's psychological. Because Andrew, our nervous system able to respond, immediate, you know, visible threat, a predator, for example, running through through us, fire, a sudden storm or stress response activate when something is fast, loud and deadly threatenings. But you know, you ask yourself, like gradual ocean warming, microscopy safe in phytoplactone productivity, training carbon chemistry happen over decades, or biology, I think that doesn't register those as something like urgent, you know, because they are too slow, like too astral, too invisible.

12:19 And the most interesting thing is like we tend to protect what we see. But marine microorganism, you know, the real engine of the most failed regulation are invisible. And invisibility weakens emotional urgency. Because when I first understood that nearly half of the oxygen that we breathe comes from the organism most people never see, it generally change the way I thought about connection. It made me realize how much of survival depends on processes happening beyond our own perception. Because that idea stay with me.

13:01 Because when you, you know, when once you are understanding that invisible system sustain visible life, you start asking different questions about responsibility, about interdependence, about what is what it means to live inside an assistant you barely notice. And Andrew, when you spend years, because has been more than 10 years studied, you know, this microorganism, you begin to see patterns, because I'm going to tell you something very exciting. And most of the people probably won't know. In biology, we talk a lot about one word called omeostasis. You know, the ability of a system to regulate itself to maintain balance despite standard fluctuation. And you know, for example, the human body does this constantly, for example, temperature regulation, pH balance, oxygen level glucose concentration.

14:09 It is like not one organ acting alone. It's a network, you know, as a society of cells, each cell operating with within limits, each cell contributing to equilibrium. For example, if one cell in another system and adds only for itself, we call with the thing like we we call the cancer, because the planet got in a similar way. The ocean regulate the temperature is absorbing the carbon dioxide is distributing nutrient energy is established the atmospheric chemistry. And it is not just water, it's a regulatory system.

14:52 And understanding that sieve is produce something very deep in me, because when I was younger, I had a very simple image of how life works. I thought, you know, like most of the people of trees as the lungs of the planet. And in fact, when I was a kid, once I got a test, say photosynthesis in a big way with a big sun and green leaves on it. And that was my mental model. And then with the passage of the year, I discovered that nearly half of the oxygen we breathe comes from the ocean, you know, from this microscopic marine life. So that moment forced me to expand my understanding of interdependence.

15:38 It was no longer just trees. It was the invisible microorganism that sustained the visible life, you know, that reflection that eventually became one of the foundations of my book that I wrote, I call "Herbit of Consciousness". And in that book, Andriou, I explore the bridge between what science explains, you know, for example, neurons, cell metabolism, regulatory system, and what the conscience asks of us as human beings. Because once that you understand that you are literally breathing molecules processed by marrying microorganisms, the ocean stopped being an inventory, you know, an environmental issue, is because it's become like a personal one. And that connection between science and awareness, for me started in the laboratory, we say no bacteria. And now all of these may sound a bit heavy. But here is the part that gives me hope.

16:44 Because the ocean is not delicate. It's like a dynamic entity, you know, microbiology, community, Canada, you know, like ecosystem can reorganize, life has been responded to change for billions of years. So you know, bacteria survive for mass extinction, they survive for atmospheric collapse, they survive the condition radically different from today. And the question is not whether we allow the system enough stability to adapt. And in the laboratory and the we, when we study cell bacteria, we look to different parameters, for example, how like intensity, you know, carbon electricity, and environmental stress, affect, grow and metabolism. And we don't do this just out of curiosity, we do this to understanding the resilience, because solution to climate change will not come from panic. They will come from understanding how biological systems regulate and aligning all technologies and policy with those principles.

18:02 Because ocean protection is not only technological, it's perceptual. It's beginning when we see from seeing the ocean as a backdrop to seeing it as an infrastructure, like a living infrastructure that regulate the air, the climate and the condition that make us complete life possible. And that's if in precision is powerful, because once you understand that your next breath depends on marine microorganism, the conversation completely changed. It because less about ideology and more about biology.

18:43 And, Andrew, let's return to something simple, your breath. Right now, as you listen to this, oxygen is the first into your bloodstream, is traveling through your circulatory system, is entering billions of cells, is powering the neurons that allow to think, to reflect, to even question what I'm saying. And a wrong hallow that oxygen trace back to marine microorganism, no metaphorically, literally. So the ocean is not out there circulating through you. When I grow a heartbeat of consciousness, one of the central ideas I explore was that sign and the constant are not like a separate path.

19:29 Understanding how life works, so change how we live within it. And for me, studying, you know, what area was not just research. It was like perp-stiff. It revealed that we are not a server of the planet. We are a participant in its regulatory system, because protecting the ocean is not environmental activity. It's biological realism. It is the recognition that we are integrated into the very system that we are modifying. And perhaps when we feel that not just intellectually, but deeply, it's something as simple as a breath.

20:11 The way we relate the ocean will begin to change, because in the end, it is not just about saving the water. I think it is about understanding the life. Yeah, it's such an important aspect that we don't think about. As you eloquently explain to us, in terms of this process that plays such a big role in our lives, that we don't even realize because we don't see this happening. You know, we look at roles of how oxygen is produced. We look at role of how carbon is sequestered in the ocean deep through the biological carbon pump. And it's such an important aspect. And we've talked about it this week with each and every episode.

21:09 Take me through, Jose, your research in synthetic biology. First, just kind of explain what synthetic biology is to the audience and how you're working with cyanobacteria, just in general in your research. So I am going to explain this in a way that most of the people can understand. So synthetic biology, so my work, for example, so imagine life, for example, we have a car and we want to modify this car to do this faster, you know, like to do it better. So basically, the thing that I do in the lab is like, for example, I am not like a kind of mechanic. So I had this, for example, I remember that I saw this cyanobacteria. I take this organism and I say, okay, I am going to find a way to integrate a protein and I'm going to start in a way that I can, for example, to put something inside of the cell that allow like this, this product that I have.

22:11 I want to express, starting to produce in the cell in a way that just in a we see a two and in a media, you know, neutering with carbon and sunlight, we will be able like in the meantime that the cell are growing, we are producing this compound and we can take this compound and we can take advantage about that. So basically, my word is this. And for example, imagine that there is in this cyanobacteria, there are some toxin and we want to produce something like food grade or something. So I can take this thing and I say, okay, I need to remove this and I can do some process in the cell that I can interrupt this gene in order to create, you know, like all the modification that we can think about, like, for example, imagine that we can we want to do a faster, a strange way.

23:06 I can have a lot to the genes that are more relating to producing like some compound that can make the cell grow faster and over express this to produce more copies. It's really exciting because it's something that changed the world because we are literally using a compound that it is CO2 that the planet is like, you know, we know the situation in the planet with the CO2 and transforming this CO2 in something by by valuable life, for example, like biofuel, for example, another thing that we can do is to make it more effective. So the one compound we are, for example, under most the most interesting thing for the first time, we are starting to produce insulin in cyanobacteria that we just to release that. So thinking about the impact of about this.

23:52 So so many people having diabetes and now the platform to produce this is in equalize. So imagine that now you can produce exactly the same with an organism that in a green way that you see you choose sunlight, you produce something like a bio, a biomedical compound that is helping the life of so many people. And also at the same time, you are helping the planet. So that's to me like that. I think when I start to say I start maybe the interview in 2016. And when I see this, like this organism could change the world is like something that is something like it just resonate with me and has been more than 10 years.

24:34 And here I am because I always have been, you know, like helping the planet and it's something fascinating. The thing that we can do with this organizing and also the importance of understanding how you go and the impact in the in the real world. That's amazing. I love it. Take me back to your PhD. You know, how did you discover, you know, in terms of working with with cyanobacteria? Why cyanobacteria? Like, obviously, you said that it makes such a difference. But how did you come up with that thesis of working with cyanobacteria in synthetic biology? Like, where did it come from? Because, you know, it's not talked about a lot. I'm sure it's talked a lot in molecular biology. But did you see it in your undergrad or through your masters? Or how did you discover that working with cyanobacteria would be so important?

25:25 So I started working in the lab during my master. I was studying different organisms, like organisms that are associated with plants, like rhizobia bacteria. There are some bacteria that can associate same biopsy with plants. And I started doing synthetic biology with this organization over expressions on genes and the things when I finished this, you know, all of the people has this philosophical question, like what is the next what what is the thing that we should do? And I was having a look at the different PhD topics and the things. And there was a group in in Cordoba in the south of Spain, then there is like one of the few in the world that they are studying cyanobacteria like different type of cyanobacteria.

26:11 And there was a project like very, very exciting because they was the end of that. It was understanding the metabolism, how this organism one how because one interesting things is like, you know, like this organism can use like I mentioned, like CO2 in order to grow, to survive. But most interesting thing is like they just discovered that this cyanobacteria has inside of the cell some transport like from glucose and difference carbon transport. And the thing that they discovered is like really, really amazing because this organism when they are available, when they have life, for example, in the in the ocean that they have available carbon.

27:03 So like, for example, glucose that they are in the animal range in the ocean, they can take it from the, you know, from the from the environment. And it is like a metabolic advantage because they are like this organism and they are working in order to be very, very efficient. You know, it's like even like with the with the centuries, like with the 1000 of the year, they are always compacting the, you know, like they are very, very small genome. And every time is like, okay, how can I be more efficiently and understanding all of that thing, you know, but my main thing is like, this organism, like when I see like because in the in their website, they have, you know, like, that they organize and like produce oxygen that they they was like a lot of thing that they can do in order to save the planet, say, okay, I think this is my field, because it's like a way that I can use in order to have my planet and this blow my mind, you know, and we can do that.

27:57 You know, and with the passing of the time, I studied, you know, different strain because we have a strain that grows slow, grow fast, one of them are using from biotechnology perspective that are like the now that we are going in that there are fast growing strain. And to me, when I find this is something that say this is like, you know, one of the main reasons that I am hearing this word is from this. And with the passing of dying, Andrew, and I was like, especially with this organism, because for example, when I finished my PhD, you need to you want to continue in sign, you need a you need to do something called postdoctoral research.

28:39 So I moved to the University of Anglia Norwich, UK also, in order because it was published a paper that they was in, they were trying to, to create like a toolbox in order to modify the fast growing strain in order that they want that we can use for biotechnology. And I studied, I spent two years developing these tools in order to modify the strains in order to produce compound and the thing that's the most exciting to me because it's like has been, you know, has been like always helping with synovatry, but it's like has been aligning more, you know, in order to what it can I do to help this in a in a better way.

29:28 Like the, the topic of my research, like in order to modify this strain to produce something that we can help the planet and the same time that we are producing different wide range of compound. Yeah, no, that's, it's super exciting. When we talk about sound of bacteria and their, their role in climate change, right, you know, bringing it back to the people, you know, obviously there's a lot of medical, there's a lot of medical, I guess, practicalities that you can that you can use for people. So that's, that's really great.

30:08 From a climate change perspective, you know, they obviously play a very important role. Are there any, is there any research out there trying to get cyanobacteria more involved in sort of, you know, absorbing more CO2 from the atmosphere? Is it possible to do that? I know there's like fertilization research out there to try and fertilize that the, the, the ocean with iron, which, you know, people aren't loving with cyanobacteria. Is there any research with climate change to help reduce climate change or help basically absorb a lot of the CO2 through, through the atmosphere?

30:48 So I am going to tell you something really exciting. After I finished this postdoctoral research, I was also before to take in the decision to take the lead to move to industry. I contact with one, with one researcher in the University of Illinois in California. They, they think that it was really interesting to me. They were collaborating with the NASA in order to, to create like, they think it was, they think that they were doing like, was really, really interesting because they was doing ocean glories around the world in order to measuring the population of cyanobacteria, most of the, you know, phytoplactone, you know, different organisms that are part of that.

31:36 And in order, like, if they can quantify like in every part of the ocean, what are the, the, for example, how many like percentage of the organism, they could create like a plants in order to create a plants for climate change. But it's something that it is like a currently in studying. For example, in the ocean, there are like, you know, if I mentioned that are like so many phytoplactone is about like just not by cyanobacteria, cyanobacteria is most important. There are part of, for example, diatomins and so many organisms. But most of the, the organisms that produce most of the oxygen of the world is called plocorococcus. It's like a very, very tiny cell.

32:19 And yeah, we need to the main thing that this, this is this specific strain is like very, very sensitive because small chain in the temperature could affect to the to the population. So now it's start to to the claim in to decrease the population of a bit of this. But in order to do something, you know, at a global scale is something that is not anything. And also, I don't know if you heard about that. But there was some there was a paper. It was from probably five or seven years ago, that they, okay, there are some researchers that they want to, to, you know, like say, we, for example, having more iron to the ocean, you know, we will be in also in enhancing, you know, like the increasing of this microorganism.

33:09 But there is another response to that, that there is there is something very, very controversial because when you do that, you change the completely state of all of the all of the ecosystem that they are living together. And it is something that I think that the main thing that we need to do is taking care of the thing that we have. And yeah, because it's just a small chain could make a like a drafty list if in all of the population. For people who are listening in the audience, who are like, look, these microbes, obviously, they have some importance to them. You know, but but they're just like, we don't see these things all the time. And every time, you know, they focus on algae, you know, they think of bad things associated with algae.

33:57 How can we get people to think more positively about things like cyanobacteria or algae in general? Yes, I see this point. And also, actually, I remember in my last year when I was studying in Cordoba, people say, oh, you know, I am very, I'm feeling, you know, very bad because I have a lake in my town. And you know, this town, they have like a song, cyanobacteria that they are toxic. And we cannot, you know, like go to get like a swimming in the in, you know, during the salmon. But it is like happening, like not in a very globally way there is a of course there are some cyanobacteria that has and also some microalgae that has inside of the genome some I won't I won't be like here like very, very centrifugal way but has some genes inside that they will be able to produce some toxin normally in a very low, low concentration.

34:58 But we say that we don't see this this organism. But for example, I'm going to tell you two years ago, I was in Thailand, and it was a night and I was in a boat. And I see this organism glow, because there are some of them that has inside or then some genes that they can that they will be able to produce by Lumi sense. And it is something really, really exciting and recommend all the people that have the opportunity to see. But the message to this, like it is not like a organism that it is like a person an illness or it is not most of the strain of when I say in a strain, like I am telling like, we have like a different type of organism that you know, like me in this is like, one time we have another time, you know, like different general.

35:51 But it's not something like that for the in the overall, but for the headlight in some cases, in a very specific circumstances, there are there could be like a circus like there is a bloom of this organism, but it is not something that happily like very, very frequently on a global scale that you for example, and in the ocean and say, Oh, no, you know, I need to be care about this. Organizing that I'm going to be, it's like a represent like a threat for that. But absolutely, you know, we need to recommend all other people to read more about this and think about this. Because most of the people under you think, Oh, we need to save the forest, you know, but let's think about the ocean because it's like the other land of the planet and be concerned about this.

36:41 What is what is the thing that we can do in order to to help the ocean? Yeah, I think it's I think it's interesting because you know, we see we see a lot of people, you know, I see it now. One of the things I see right now is like, you know, sargasm is on the beaches in the Caribbean and people are freaking out because they see this and it's a climate change thing. It's increasing more because of climate change. But these the seaweed also helps, you know, sequester carbon. Same thing with with, you know, some of these microbes that we that we don't see. I guess and and there's there's such a knowledge gap in microbes, even for myself. And as I learn more and more, I start to get especially this week as I did research for the episodes this week and your episodes. I'm always impressed by what microbes are able to do in the ocean and for us as a as a planet. But if if there's, you know, if there's a lot of microbes in the ocean, you know, you know, you can do it.

37:32 You know, there's still a knowledge gap. So if there's if there's one thing you wish people understood about microbes in the ocean, what would it be? That's a difficult question, Andrea. I will I will I will try to to understand this like, no, like, like a single, you know, like a single unit, understand everything, like a chain that all of us are a part of this ecosystem. And we are living from that we are like living together. And yeah, like, for example, like put or, you know, like, thinking about the thing that we can do in order to help the planet, you know, like, for example, we see like, when you see this, for example, the new, you see like the ocean, like people putting a lot of garbage on it is like, you know, like, for example, on some countries like India, Bangladesh, that you see, like the place around that you say how this can be possible.

38:27 And for example, so many factories like we producing so many CO2 to the asthma fair about that. We need to think like this organism is helping to deal with problem, a problem, like very important problem that we're suffering nowadays are like the greenhouse effect, because as you mentioned, they are can capture this gas that this terrible gas that we are producing and we are posting in like the, the earth. Every year more, more, more, more, more, more. They have the ability, same thing that the planet even more efficiently to capture the CO2. And the same thing with it.

39:08 Okay, we are taking the CO2 and at the same time are releasing oxygen and the thing that they do in the life, like, exactly the same process. But at the end, I am releasing oxygen, but producing a compound, even like thing that you can even imagine, like everything that will change that you can think we can produce. So it is like something that I didn't start to communicate a lot about that. You know, like, for example, doing a lot of talking about this and most of the people and even when my book I start to, to talk also a bit about the sign of a theory and most of the people under you, I feel like they don't understand this and they don't have a idea about the thing that they are capable to do, because this is this, the problem is life from the secondary school that they teach, the same that I was telling, like the oxygen released by the forest, by the trees, but there is no mention in the book there's a lot of leads that I have seen in from this organism. And now I think that with the past, the time people will take a more constant and aware about this.

40:08 But I think that the situation is starting to change because most of the people that I know with the past, you know, like when I are doing like event in order to communicate this more like people are trying to be more aware about this. Yeah. And it's interesting, you know, you talk about getting people more aware. What do you think scientists should do differently if they want their work to actually reach an influenced society? Well, I think the main problem that we have is science and science sometimes we don't have enough visibility, because we produce like, for example, so many papers, you know, we publish a paper in nature or something like that, this like something like, yeah, very, very important.

40:56 But for example, you will never see like on TV, oh, this kind, this group, this group has discovered in the ocean when make urbanism that, you know, we can do something for helping the planet because, you know, like, I think that there is like the message to that to the general people. For example, it is not like something that they are thinking that they are relevant or they can, you know, like, and more audience. But I think like the main thing that we need to do is like give more visibility to scientists, because even like, for example, when science want to communicate, for example, in the past, when I was working in the unity, in the university, sorry, the way that we do it, for example, we went to different high secondary school, you know, people was in the moment that they need to, that's very, very, I really like that when I was working in the unit, because we go to give talking, for example, I made that you are just finishing, you are doing science, you know, like starting, and you're starting to see and say, okay, what should they do?

41:54 I am like something that I really feel like fulfillment, like with myself, for example, when you like, for example, give people, tell people, okay, we have this organization, we can do that, you know, it's a thing that people say starting to study in this as something that change, you know, like, see something that proves like a big chain and to that. But the thing is like, yes, I think that the main problem is like, we don't have visibility, we think like, we need to do something. But thanks to people like you, and another like entities like give visibility to science in this interview, for example, when I saw your pocket, I said like, this is like when this is something that should be like, you know, even on TV or something, why don't you know, the ocean is like, but I'm telling you, Andrew, like with the passion at the time, we will remember this word, because this will be like a massive impact.

42:46 Because now, you know, like this thing that, for example, I was telling you about the insulin, it's something that we just discovered, and we will see, we have a schedule with the BBC in order to talk about this, you will see like when this happened, it's like when people will be, oh, they know this organism producing insulin, because I think we are going to finish with all of the resource. And we had this organism that using the CO2 on this and will be like the absolutely the game changer. I completely agree. Jose, this has been absolutely amazing to have you on the podcast and be able to talk about this talk about microbes, talk about your work with cyanobacteria, I think it's such an important aspect to to the work you do. And I'd love to invite you back on to talk more about some of the work you do in the future.

43:29 And we would we'd love to hear more about microbes because we just don't know enough about microbes on this podcast and we need to know more. So again, Jose, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. And we'll talk to you soon. Absolutely. It was a pleasure. And thanks for this opportunity. And great job. And congratulations to you, Andrew, for being this really a work because thanks to boys like you, like we are like taking all of the books of the scientists and amplifying this is like the thing that we are doing the real difference. And the world. So thank you for this. You need to be proud of that. Well, thank you very much. I do appreciate it. It's it's a lot of hard work, as you know, and it's it, but it's it's the reward is worth it. And so really happy to say that, yeah, we're really happy that this this is this is being done. So we appreciate it.

44:18 Thank you so much. Thank you. Was a pleasure. Thank you, Jose, for joining us on today's episode of the how to protect the ocean podcast. It was great to have you on. Learn so much today about and just this week about microbes, you know, this is a subject matter that I was not as familiar with. But I'm bringing it to you because I wanted to teach you something new because this is where you learn about the ocean. And it's something that I feel is important that we learn all aspects of the ocean, not just something that I'm familiar with. So going outside my comfort zone, learning something new, just trying to be curious and seeing what we can cover on this podcast. And Jose just summed it up nicely in terms of bringing what biotechnology is, how we can use microbes to help us in our climate solutions and other solutions and how important sound of bacteria is something that I didn't know when I first started.

45:03 So it's great to be able to learn something new for myself. I hope you learn something new as well. And I'm going to put links to Jose so you can get access to him in a future date. And of course, if you have any feedback or questions, love to hear you love to hear from you. Just go to speak up for blue.com forward slash feedback that speak up for blue.com forward slash feedback. I want to hear your feedback either in a voicemail or just type it out. I'd love to hear your questions, comments, concerns, whatever that might be. Just hit me up. And of course, if you want more of this type of information, just hit that follow button so you don't miss Monday's episode, which is gonna be a lot of fun. We're gonna be talking about fisheries next week. So it's gonna be a lot of fun. So I want to thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time and happy conservation.