Gulf Coast communities and oil drilling: Who really pays the price for new offshore leases?

0:00 Today's episode is the third installation of talking about the US offshore oil and gas drilling plan. This is different than the other two that we've done because it really focuses on the Gulf of Mexico and the people around the Gulf of Mexico and how the oil industry has treated the people in the Gulf of Mexico area over the years, especially in Louisiana. We're gonna be talking to Scott. S. Of the Healthy Gulf organization and he is coming to us from Louisiana, born and raised. His grandfather used to drill for oil and has seen the damage that has been done and how promises weren't made by the oil industry. And we're gonna talk about why that's such an important part of.

0:43 Speaking up and speaking out against this new leasing plan, not only from what's happened in the past, but what it can do in the future. We're gonna talk about that on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. Let's start the show. Hey everybody. Welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, Marine biologist and science communicator here to tell you what's happening with the Ocean, how you can speak up for the Ocean, and what you can do to live for a better Ocean by taking action. Now on today's episode, we're gonna be talking about the US oil and gas drilling plan and the leasing permits that have been put out, pretty much covering over a billion acres of the us. Ocean, like what they manage within their exclusive economic zone.

1:26 We're gonna be talking to Scott Ess. He is the community science director of Healthy Gulf that manages and looks after the Gulf of not America, of Mexico. He's been living in Louisiana and his grandfather even lived in Louisiana, grew up in Louisiana and drilled for oil in Louisiana. And he tells a story in this episode of how. His grandfather saw what had been done, like what they created, And then also how it was left and how it continues to be left, and we're gonna be really focusing here. I wanted to pay particular attention how he focuses of how the oil and gas industry are not taking care of things that they have done in the past. Oil wells that they've drilled. They're not decommissioning them. That means they're not shutting them down properly, but they want to drill for more.

2:06 They want to get leases for more. They also talk about how some leasing strategies. Are not tied to drilling at all, but tied to borrowing more money. It's really interesting to talk about what is happening in the oil and gas industry in the Gulf of Mexico, but also to see what has happened to the people and how the people have been treated over the last number of decades that the oil and gas industry has been in Louisiana as well as the Gulf States. So we're gonna talk. All about that with Scott, and this is an ongoing, uh, series. I'm gonna be talking to other people hopefully in Alaska. I've got another piece that might be coming up with the Gulf States as well. It's all surrounding how the oil and gas industry affects not only the environment, but local communities.

2:47 And this episode really brings it home. We talked to Joseph Gordon from Ocean. We talked to Pete Stauffer from the Surf Rider in the last two episodes, and now we're gonna be talking about the Gulf States. In this episode, it's gonna be a really important to listen. To how people have been treated by the oil and gas industry. You'll hear the big talking points about how it creates jobs and does it really create jobs. That's the big thing that we're gonna be talking about today, as well as how it's treated people in the past and how it's treated land in southern Louisiana in the past as well. We're gonna talk about that, all that today on this interview. Enjoy the interview with Scott Eustis of Healthy Golf, and I'll talk to you after. Oh, I just have one question before we start. Yeah. How do you pronounce your last name? Is it Eustis? Eustis. Perfect.

3:27 Beauty. Alright, here we go. Hey Scott. Welcome to the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. Are you ready to talk about the Gulf of Mexico as well as this new offshore oil drilling plan? Yes, indeed. We're here in New Orleans ready to protect the Gulf and ask your listeners to join us. And pursuing a better economy for, uh, what's left of Louisiana. And, uh, even though we're always gonna be in the water, so join us. Love it, and stop in this, you could call it a plan. It ain't much of a plan because, uh, the oil industry absolutely leaves a lot out when they plan.

4:12 Uh, you know, so yeah, totally. We're gonna talk about it. It's gonna be fun to, to talk about it, to get to, uh, to all the specifics of, of what's happening and what people should think about when they think about the people that live in and around the Gulf of Mexico. 'cause I feel like sometimes it's underrepresented and, and we just think of it's oil and gas. But that's not the case at all, and we're gonna find out that out today. Um, but before we get into all of that fun stuff, uh, Scott, why don't you just let us know who you are and what you do. Yeah, Scott used to see him. I'm the Community Science Director at Healthy Golf. We're a 30-year-old plus organ environmental organization, uh, dedicated to collaborating and serve.

4:59 Those people that love the Gulf of Mexico and want to see it restored to its natural splendor. The Gulf is an amazingly biodiverse Ocean. It's got a very gentle one Tie a day. You know, you don't have that in Maine, Seattle, you know, we've, it is a very gentle Ocean, and especially here in New Orleans, in Louisiana. But also in mobile. Uh uh, uh, also in Port Arthur, you have these great freshwater rivers that enter this gentle Ocean and make miles and miles of estuary that just. They do nothing but produce food Um, So it's really hard to be a vegetarian in New Orleans because the Ocean is just bringing the shrimp literally right to my doorstep.

5:51 You know? Uh, the Ocean is just here, you know, mother Nature is just providing, and we'd really like to return. Gulf and its economy back to that maritime way that where it's oriented around hearth and home food and shelter. Uh, but we do have a long way to go. Uh, yeah, it seems like there's. It seems like there's a lot of, uh, activity in and around the Gulf or planned activity. I mean, there's, we know that there's a lot of, uh, oil and gas platforms already there. Yeah. Um, we know that the market for oil and gas has been up and down.

6:33 Especially since 2014 when, when we had a big crash. Yeah. Uh, And so we're, we're gonna, we're gonna get into to all that because I feel like it's really, uh, it goes to show how, you know, the, the communities are treated in, in that, in that area. And, and, and I feel like, you know, a lot of the times we just don't get to know the culture. Of the, the, the Gulf States. Right. Because there is, there is a, a specific culture around that. And that's what I want to get into now. So Scott, you, uh, you know, grew up in, in New Orleans, you grew up in, in Louisiana. You, your grandfather grew up in there. Can you tell us a little bit about that family history and that connection to the Ocean?

7:16 Um, no, just from the perspective of, of your family and maybe even the community that you grew up in. Right. I mean, Louisiana, we have all types. I, I'm a little bit Cajun a little bit coming from the East coast back in the day, generations and generations. But we all, uh, native folks were drawn to the water again, because this is where a lot of the food was. Uh, African-American folks have also contributed a rich culinary. If you come to New Orleans, you're eating food out of the Gulf and this wonderfully productive ecosystem. Uh, my family were accountants, engineers, and after World War ii, my granddad, uh, left forestry to drill.

7:56 And of course he's drilling in Plaquemines and Terrebonne, two parishes, like local counties, uh, on the water, on the Gulf. And, um. Made a living, uh, drilling for golf oil company doesn't exist anymore. Uh, made good money. I, I think at that time, you know, post World War ii, the Gulf provided energy and it's like thinking about the way my granddad thought of oil. He thought of it as this gift of energy from Mother Earth that could ease pain and provide. Opportunities for the economy. That never happened before.

8:38 And so there, there was this promise at some point of, of oil, um, to change, change the economy of Louisiana from the plantation economy that we had. I'm sad to say, uh, 50 years on that did not the promise. It was not fulfilled. And so today, um, especially after the price crashes in 2014 And then in 2020, And then we're looking at very low oil prices, uh, next year, you know, every time the value of oil dips companies cut and run from their workers and from their environmental obligations.

9:22 So for about the past 10 years, especially. Healthy golf has opposed new leasing, not only for climate reasons and Hurricane Katrina taught us that we need to be very wary of climate change in Louisiana. Mm-hmm. But just, you know, this government is not gonna listen. Oh, we should still comment to this government on climate change, but we really think that there should be no new leasing until all those wells. That were drilled in my grandfather's day get picked up because the oil, you know, you're commenting on a plan for leasing. But I gotta tell you, the oil companies do not plan, like other industries plan where they, they're gonna put a piece of infrastructure in the Ocean.

10:11 But if you're a wind project off Virginia or New York, you have what's called a decommissioning plan. Whatever we build in the Ocean has a life cycle. And you know it, if you buy a car, you know that car. It's not gonna last forever. You know, and you have a, we need a plan in place from the day of sale. Um. If you're gonna put something in the Ocean, you need a plan to take it out. And what we have seen, especially since 2014, is that, uh, oil has been crashing and yeah, like they say, oil is cyclical, right? Mm-hmm. And, or boom and bust. Mm-hmm. Well, for Louisiana it is just been bust.

10:51 Bust and we're looking in, if we're looking at $40 oil next year, it's gonna be a third bust. And what that means is companies like Chevron and Shell, uh, even bp, uh, all of their legacy wells that maybe are 50, maybe 80, a hundred years old sometimes, rather than hiring Louisiana oil workers. To fill those oil wells with cement and mm-hmm. Cut the steel out of the Ocean and recycle the steel on shore. Uh, rather than finishing the job that was promised, the industry continues to cut and run.

11:35 So we, we have this, it is called decommissioning, right? You, yeah. You build the rig, you drill the well, that's commissioning and decommissioning as you take it out. Well. This industry doesn't take anything out of the Ocean. And as a result, we have hundreds of oil spills sitting there in Plaquemines Parish. Uh uh, that should have been taken out, 40 years, gone, but still sit there and they don't produce. Anything or they produce drops of oil, but then leak gallons. Mm-hmm. And, and what's more We have since 2014, we have seen nothing but layoffs, layoffs, layoffs.

12:16 So since 2014 we've lost 20,000 jobs out of the oil field. Wow. Meanwhile, there's a lot of work to be done. Mm-hmm. By oil workers to fill these broken wells with cement. Take 'em outta the Ocean. 'cause we got a lot of other business to attend to. Um, we at healthy golf want offshore wind. Um mm-hmm. But even if you're not fully on board with that, just the, the shrimping fleet or a poey fleet, uh, we need to remove these derelicts wells. So that a shrimp boat doesn't hit one in the middle of the night and have a calamity, um, or even just a shrimp boat drag in the wrong place.

13:00 Um, shrimping is not as lucrative as it once was. If you're a shrimper and your net is fouled by an old pipeline, that's about 4,000 bucks just to start. And you may be, it might be a bad, it's a bad month if not a bad season. Yeah. So, I mean, we need to Yeah. Make space for new economic opportunities in the Gulf because what you have is this industry that, uh. They're just, uh, they're not hiring engineers, they're just laying off workers And so we don't want any new leasing, And so they fix all the broken stuff they've left from the old leases.

13:44 I mean, that makes sense. You know, like, like you said, that in every other industry they have to clean up their mess and, and this is a, this is a mess. As you mentioned, there's, there's oil wells that have not being used, not being used in production, and they continue to leak. It continues to mess up fisheries, it continues to mess up, uh, tourism because you're seeing all this oil come in in certain spots. Plus the local community, of course, is affected as well from a health perspective as well as an environmental, uh, perspective. Now, one thing you mentioned before we, uh, before we started recording, which I thought was interesting, it was this lease plan. And, and where this lease plan is going. Like this is a plan to lease out spots to eventually drill, right?

14:27 But I think some people are like, oh, well they're gonna, once they buy these leases or once they buy up these leases, they're gonna start drilling right away. That's not how it works. Scott, can you explain how that works and when are we looking at when these leases would actually be drilled? If they're drilled? Yeah. We need people to comment to the government about. This, this lease plan, 'cause a, a lease today is almost a plan to drill 10, even 20 years from now. They can, they sit on that lease first. There's a lot of, it's the Ocean. It's not easy to get there. So, uh, sometimes they lease it out before they have the capital in the, you know, get a loan to do the survey work.

15:12 Right. They might drill a survey. Well, 'cause these oil deposits. Are two, three miles underneath the mud. And that's all. Yeah. If you're drilling through a mile of Ocean on top of that. So these are incredibly complex, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, operations. They're incredibly expensive. Um, and. Since 2014 and fracking, it's just been so much easier for the oil companies to hire trucks rather than boats. Right? Right. So it's still, uh, to this day, it's much a bigger return on investment for them to hire trucks and frack in West Texas or North Dakota than it is to make a long-term plan to drill for oil deposits in the Ocean.

16:05 So what that means is. A lot of your smaller operators, uh, won't even be bidding. Mm-hmm. It means is, um. You see the lease sail. The lease sail is every speck of Ocean we got. And that's, yeah. Kind of offensive 'cause it's, you know, we have great coral reefs in places. Mm-hmm. In some places of the gulf. In other places we have sand resources. Mm-hmm. That we would like to utilize for coastal and ecosystem restoration. We have fairways, we have places that will be good for wind power. So when you see these plans drop and they considered no one and nobody, and they just let oil industry take whatever they want, that I would, that's not a plan.

16:52 So, uh, Yeah. Yeah. Uh, wait. I, and I think, uh. When, for example, when the wind power leasing happened in the Gulf during the last administration, they purposely excluded about 14 categories of other activities. For one, they didn't lease wind power close to shore, let's just say, well, let's just move it away from people in general. Mm-hmm. Two. Uh, they excluded. Shrimping areas. They looked at something called AIS, which tracks the larger fishing vessels, and they say, oh, where are people shrimping? Let's not even consider leasing those areas for wind.

17:32 Mm-hmm. They did other things like we have an endangered whale. There may only be 30 to 40 uh, rices whales in the Gulf. Mm-hmm. It's a whale. It's like a half size blue whale. A rl. Right. A filter feeder. An amazing animal that we want to thrive and Prosple and we know we need to exclude a certain areas of bottom upwelling where that the Ri Rices whale feeds from. We need to exclude those areas from oil activity. If we want that species to not go extinct. And the wind Yeah, the wind power.

18:13 People are like, yeah, we don't, we don't need to go there. Um, and, but when they lease for oil, they just lease everything. I, I think what you see since 2014 too, these are almost all single bid leases almost exclusively. And you know, so you know that these leases are contracts. Between the United States and the oil companies. We're just selling the farm for pennies. You know, we want the United States to get the most value out of it. If they're gonna make so much money, what do we see from it? You know? And we're really, yeah. When we, when we lease single bid, uh, we are getting the bottom, uh, of the barrel.

18:58 We're not getting a good deal. Uh, the other thing mm-hmm. Is that. Oil is, you may have heard it in seventh grade. It's a non-renewable resource. So what really? Another dynamic that's gone on really since 2008. Uh, wait. It's run out y'all. We've been drilling in the Gulf for a hundred years, and especially these wells. Some of these wells were old when my grandfather was working on 'em. Uh, so it really, you know, in the industry. So, oh, we'll have new technology. We'll do this. We'll pump CO2 down. No you won't because Yeah.

19:39 Yeah. Uh, it, it's, it's, it's, again, it's just if as long as we're fracking in North Dakota, as long as we're fracking in West Texas, the value proposition of hiring this giant boat crew, hiring geologists and divers and, and environmental scientists to live on boats for months at a time mm-hmm. To do this like. These almost like space missions to find the oil. Mm-hmm. Uh, the economics only play out if you're an Exxon or Chevron, and they only play out if you find super large deposits of oil.

20:21 And, and what that means is they need to go super deep, which is super dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. And they need to drill. Yeah. Super deep under the earth and it's mm-hmm. Literally hot as hell down there And so, mm-hmm. Right now in the Gulf there haven't been many new jobs in drilling, but there has been what they call 20 K plays way, way far out off of Green Canyon and beyond. This is, these are 250 miles from the Louisiana border. Very, very far, um, to go very, very deep, uh, to find what you call 20 K. And what is, what is 20 K?

21:09 Uh, I believe that's 20 K pounds of pressure. These are areas that were leased. They were leased in 2006. Mm-hmm. But when, uh, and they found, they surveyed it, they found oil in these super deep plays that had a lot of big play. In 2006, the oil industry did not have the technology to drill it because if they had drilled these plays in 2006, the pressures would've been so high. No human technology would've been able to contain the geyser of pollution coming out from Mother Earth. So what we see now, Chevron has said, oh, we finally hacked it.

21:52 We're gonna go super deep. Super hot, super high pressure, but I think we should be, you should be very concerned if you're off Florida or Alabama. 'cause it just means that it's, we're we're getting riskier and riskier. Mm-hmm. And riskier after we, we've already had the disaster of 2010 to tell us if any. They'll say, oh, it'll never happen. It's a low probability event. Yeah. But we've seen, we've already been through it and our ecosystem still hasn't recovered. Mm-hmm. From 2010. No, our, we've got 26 species of cean in the Gulf and the rice is whale hasn't recovered.

22:37 Our bottle nose, dolphin population is not recovered. The beaks. D whale, none of our well species have recovered from. The last deep water drilling disaster in 2010. And what this lease sale proposes, um, is to go deeper and hotter into hell. And, uh, and the other, and that's the reason why what's new about this sale is for the first time they're gonna drill off the coast of Florida. It's driven by these deeper plays that they could find. But we know, uh. We know that that's, that would be an even worse economic disaster because, uh, healthy Gulf, we, we, we look at the economics when we comment on these things, we look at the jobs and we have gotten the state of Mississippi to ban drilling, uh, on its coast because the, the consequences to tourism and to the coastal economy fishing.

23:44 Everything on the beach. The cost of a drilling disaster off of Mississippi is not worth the benefits of the oil, and that's to the Mississippi tourism economy, which, I mean, I love vacationing on the coast of Mississippi, but it's not the national draw that, uh, everyone knows it's Florida to be. It's underrepresented. Let's be honest. We've been, I've been on the coast of Mississippi. Those beaches are beautiful and people don't realize it. It's like a hidden gem of the south. You know, I don't think people realize how nice those beaches actually are and it's good for the state. It's a great place. Yeah. It's our little paradise. But you know, it's not the big dollar that Florida is.

24:27 Right. But still, right. That humble dollar in Mississippi is enough for Mississippi. Mm-hmm. To say, no, we don't want the oil here. Uh, yeah. The, the benefit, so is that, is that regulation? Yeah. Is that regulation, uh, for Mississippi? 'cause it's a state. Yeah. Within the nine, it's in their water. Nautical mile. Yeah. Yeah. It's in their state water. So, so they ran beyond that. They can't, yeah. Okay. Okay. So Mississippi running the numbers came up with, you know, the cost of destroying the water, destroying the animals, and our food. You know, a lot of oysters, a lot of shrimp O off from the city too. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It, it just doesn't, it's not worth the revenue from oil.

25:11 Uh, and, And so for, for us, for the first, this president banned drilling off of Florida for that reason, first time death. Yeah. And Mr. Rubio, uh, you know, when he was senator, uh. He also was part of a congressional ban of drilling off of Florida for that reason. So now mm-hmm. But these, it's only worth it to drill in the Gulf for these super deep, super hot, super far places. And that's why for the first time they're contemplating going, uh, off of Florida. But we've learned nothing. You know, I, it's, Yeah, it's true. It's a very arbitrary decision by this government.

25:56 To decide to forget everything mm-hmm. That we've learned since 2010 and to totally forget about what the industry has done to Louisiana for generations. And it's only if the government remains totally ignorant to the economics that, that they could possibly get away with leasing this stuff. So that's why we need people to comment on. Yeah. All of the costs. The industry brings to the golf when it drills Well, and let's be honest too, like you've mentioned it a, a couple of times where this high pressure, deep, deep, uh, sort of, it's an experiment really.

26:40 They say they can do it, but they've never done it before. So it's really the first time. And I remember when the BP oil spill happened. The deep water horizon happened. They said, oh yeah, well, you know, we're not used to deep going that deep, right? And so we had trouble capping it because it was so deep, and now they want to go deeper where there's more pressure, where it's gonna be hotter water coming out. It makes no sense. Like you said, it's like they're ignoring the pass and a recent pass. It's not as if it's like 50 years ago, right? This was only 15 years ago. And so the fact that they want to go deeper and it's really the first time they're doing it. No, no, we got it. We've ha we've hacked the way of doing it. It doesn't mean they've got it.

27:22 You know what I mean? It doesn't mean they've got it. And in the middle of this, BP is laying off engineers in Houston. So it's one thing if you say, Hey, you know what, we're gonna try something new. You know what? We're gonna hire up and we've got 20 new smart guys to help us figure it out if something goes wrong, we are doing the opposite. BP is laying off thousands of workers outta Houston. We are, they're outsourcing engineering. A lot of things can be done remotely or they can argue that they can, I don't, I have my doubts right, but we're seeing of course, so we don't wanna increase the risk. While we're getting rid of the human element that could fix problems, it's a total recipe for a disaster for the Gulf.

28:09 Mm-hmm. Um, and really, uh, the argument they'll make in court is that this is jobs and it's so thin gruel at this point. Uh, they'll announce, uh, we're laying off 5,000 people from the Gulf, And then next month it's like, well, we gotta have this lease sale. For jobs. It's like, yeah, what? Or they'll blame me. Like, so I've been blamed personally as an environmentalist. Like, Scott, you're, you're stopping jobs from coming to the Gulf. It's like, what are you talking about? You know, Chevron and PP control who is employed and they have done a terrible thing. So this lease sale is almost like our one point of leverage to say you don't get to start new business.

28:55 Yeah, until you handle all your old business, you know, so we say no way. Absolutely. I completely agree with that, and I think that's a big myth within the oil and gas industry is that it provides local jobs. At one point it did provide local jobs, but the way they treat it, and especially with the way oil in the last 15 years has gone down, up and down, up and down so quickly and companies are ready to. Just, you know, cut their ties and leave, as you mentioned. Right. And just lay off more and more people. A lot, you know, leaving, you know, oil wells open and not, not fixing them up.

29:36 It can be, it, it just, it kind of just destroys that community and takes them away from what they used to be doing, which was fishing. Yeah. And tourism and all these other, and just living off the land and enjoying the land and enjoying what they were. One thing, Scott, I, I wanted to let you know, I, I didn't tell you this before. I did tell you I worked for lumcon, uh, about 20 years ago, 25 years ago now. Wow. I'm old, uh, 25 years ago. Um, but then I went back in 2018, uh, I was invited back as part of a group of, of science communicators that went back to lumcon, the executive director at the time, Craig McLean, wanted to put on what he called, uh, what did he call it, oceans.

30:19 Well, maybe it was 22 Ocean. 2020. No, it was 2018. It was Ocean's, ocean's 2018. And it was, it was like this. He, he didn't tell us what we were going down there for, but he did tell us that we're gonna have a topic and we're going to explain and just kind of take over the narrative of that particular topic. And so it was a big reveal. When we got down there. There was probably about 30 or 40 of us. Right? Yeah. And the topic was. Southern Louisiana Yeah. Yeah. And what has happened to southern Louisiana over the past like 30 to 60 years? Yeah. And one of the things that I learned that I did not know was the land there in southern Louisiana.

31:00 Whether it was, uh, owned by, you know, occasions or it was owned by Louisianians and, and, but also, you know, indigenous or native peoples and things. We spoke to some indigenous people there. Yeah. And they were saying that the land has been cut through so many times by boats and by oil companies who just cut through that land that like, it got to a point where like the grave sites, like their cultural grave sites would like come up. Like, you know, graves would be up and I like just cut through and, and they lost land because of it. And a lot of people were losing land because that land kept getting destroyed through those cut throughs.

31:42 Yes. It seems as the, the, the oil and gas industry has just continually taken and taken and taken from people in southern Louisiana as well as the Gulf States in, in other cases and just hasn't really given back. What they, what they have taken in no way, way, and the amounts they've taken. And that's why, in no way. So, uh, that is why, uh, Plaquemines Parish, one of the coastal local governments, a county in the Gulf south of New Orleans, uh, as well as many other coastal parishes, uh, sued Chevron, bp, shell, all of them, they sued the company.

32:24 My, uh, my grandfather worked for. But I, and to put the land back, I was raised, Yeah, I, when I was raised, um, And then in the nineties to date myself, you know my, mm-hmm. My grandfather was excited 'cause when he drilled in the seventies, in the eighties, he watched those cut throughs happen. He watched the land disintegrate, start to disintegrate, and we're very disintegrated now. He knew it was wrong, even though, hey, I wouldn't have this grandkid without that salary, but also for sure what's gonna be left for him. He was excited that I had an environmental mind and he, those, these new laws were being passed in the nineties in the state of Louisiana to force oil companies to restore it.

33:14 So he is like, Scott, my boy, go to school for ecology. Come back and I know exactly what needs to res be restored. Love it. Because I was out there doing it. I love it. So I think, you know, there's a lot of people who worked in the oil industry that have watched the industry fall short on its promises, and that's why in 2018, Plaquemines Parish engaged in 21 lawsuits against these same oil companies that are leasing. And recently they secured for one oil field, one oil field. Black Women's Parish secured a $750 million settlement, um, from Chevron and other companies.

33:59 This is a state law and it's only the damages after 1980. Uh, however, Chevron is appealing to the United States Supreme Court right now. Because that was one oil field. Blackman's had 20 other lawsuits like it. And really the damage to our coast is in the tens of billions of dollars. Um, which should tell you the value of restoring it is in the a hundred billion dollars range. I, I think we have a very successful coastal restoration program in Louisiana. After bp, it got, you know, it's a horrible ecological crisis.

34:42 But Louisiana for what we are, we don't have the greatest reputation on handling our money. But I think the cultural program has been a beacon of transparency and accountability and has really, uh, built back barrier islands, um, with that BP money and I can't tell. It's amazing to see. Tens of thousands of migrating birds using those islands now. Oh. That if we had not had that, that lawsuit, settlement money. Yeah. You know, we wouldn't have the animals. So I, Louisiana is a dramatic place with a lot of loss. And I've also seen since 2010, the eco, it's not the, the estuary is not the rainforest.

35:28 You know, it, it is an ecosystem that. We, we can, uh, put it back to function. Uh, not completely, not perfect, but we, it's amazing to see, um, what the restoration program has done. And it's amazing also to see a place like Plaquemines Parish, very pro oil and gas. But you know what? No one knows how dumb this industry is, like the workers do. So you really think about that lawsuit as the oil workers suing to pry the money out of the big bosses and Um, So.

36:16 That's on the state government side. The Native Americans, of course, we have climate change and that's a, another, a harder road to hoe. But the Native American environmental movement in Louisiana has, they've petitioned the UN that this negligence of these cut throughs, negligence of these oil canals, negligence, and the canals are still there. 'cause these wells are still there from 1930. Yeah. Uh, so, you know. It's, it's, it's a dereliction of duty. Uh, and you know who can fix it to begin with is oil workers. We need the companies part of these settlements, that seven $50 million that's gonna go toward hiring oil workers to take care of those wells from 1940.

37:07 Fill them with cement, cut the steel below the mud line. Restore the vegetation at the surface so we can have our golden meadow once again, we can have our solar powered fish farm to where it was. Maybe we can't go back to how beautiful it was in the sixties, but Right. Hey, we can make a functional and beautiful place. So I think. That's the context that actually, if the oil industry says, oh, we gotta do it for jobs, there are 10 times the amount of oil workers jobs to be had per, you know, dollar for dollar in decommissioning.

37:51 Mm-hmm. In, in plugging, decommission all these old wells full of cement And then taking them out. Of the marshes so we can heal the marshes. Yeah. Again, so it's not about jobs. It's hell not about jobs, and it's like this oil dominance, energy dominance. What is that? You know? I don't know, man. Our, you know, I love the United States forever. Uh, it's my country. But if we're trying to sell people oil, we don't have the best reputation right now for being a good salesman. Is that, if that's the idea that what we need Yeah.

38:33 To oil to sell to other countries so we can influence them. I, I don't know if that's really where the world is at right now, you know, I think Right. What? Brazil, they have their own oil, uh, who's gonna buy oil from us? I mean, yeah. Saudi Arabia has so much oil, and again, you talk about it's cheap to drive a truck rather than to rent a boat. Well, in Saudi Arabia, they just push a button, you know, they Yeah. Yeah. And so, I mean, and I think the oil industry is really scared. They, all of these assets, these leases, they'll lease the Ocean And then they'll go get a loan on that from the bank.

39:18 Right? And they've been doing that for a generation, they're doing that for generations. So we have a lot of existing leases in the Gulf that industry has never touched. And so you say, well, why don't you drill that first before drilling new ones. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's, I, you know, it's, it's because some of those leases seem to serve as mere financial assets that they can tell the bank, oh no, that, that, that's money in the future that we have. Yeah, the lease, uh, seems like the game is, but here you go. They get that loan And then they spend it. So now what do they have debt? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I think you see the industry is hungry to.

40:02 You know, they gotta run really fast to stay in place or their debt is gonna catch up with them. Um mm-hmm. Especially if the oil price crashes again, I think when these price crashes happen, all this, yeah. The whole house of cards comes tumbling down And then they look for where to cut. They look on who to fire. They look for which environmental projects to just jettison. And it, it's, sorry to say, but the industry, uh, has just been bust and bust and bust for those of us in the Gulf to where, uh, we don't think that they're chasing solutions to their debt problem rather than, Yeah.

40:53 Instead of actually trying to, yeah, there are, we have solar, we have wind. There are so much better ways to produce energy for the domestic and international market than drilling for oil. What we have is an industry that's kind of desperate and desperate to keep that, uh, their debts from becoming due. Yeah, so that's also really what's driving. You'll see leases that are sold for cheap by the federal government to these companies that will never be drilled. Because they just serve this far off as tokens in this weird financial game.

41:35 So, you know, why are we even here? Mm-hmm. It's 2025. Mm-hmm. We need to pick up the trash. That Chevron left in 1940. Yeah. And I think we had healthy golf and a group called True Transition have produced some reports on this, uh, of how many, that's really where the jobs are. That's really where economic opportunity lies for coastal Louisiana. 'cause if we can pull these old pipelines out, hire oil workers to fill the old wells with cement and take 'em out of the marsh, we can, we can really take our ecosystem restoration to the next level, which is what we have to do to survive the rising sea.

42:23 Yeah, agreed. I mean, you make a very good point on all of these. On all these cases, uh, you know, there's public comment is, is open for people to take action. Now, you know, you, you've talked a lot about what you, what you need people to do, especially in the Gulf States, you know, people care about, about their land, they care about their coastline, they care about their water. They care about going out and enjoying nature. You know, a lot of people when they go to do public comment, they don't really know what to say. Yeah. What would you recommend that they say that would make it more impactful and and influence decision makers on whether they should go ahead and continue with this plan?

43:06 Well, I would say there's a lot of reasons we wanna protect the rice as whale from global extinction. We mentioned the plight of indigenous peoples of Louisiana. How they have petitioned the UN on forced displacement, so you shouldn't lease. Mm-hmm. Because it's this promise to flood their homes and cemeteries and put them under the sea forever. Um, if that moves, you comment on that. If I, if it's economics, I would say no leases for anybody behind on their decommissioning duties. And I gotta tell you, that includes Chevron. That include, that's everybody.

43:47 There's a lot of old wells that are leaking oil into the Gulf that Chevron needs to hire us. Hire Louisiana boats. Mm-hmm. Hire Louisiana workers to plug before we give them permission to rip and run on a new part of the Ocean. I think that's, I think that's maybe our piece that you won't hear from Floridians or, or other good people of the Gulf is. Don't lease anything. Don't give 'em another inch of our Ocean before they've cleaned up their old junk. Um, yeah. Uh, because again, and that's where the jobs are, that's where the future is.

44:29 And, uh, that's what we've, we're, we're here to say, um, there's more boats right now. More Louisiana boats. Well, I shouldn't say that. Let's say this. There are just as many Louisiana offshore service vessels building offshore wind off Virginia and New York right now. Mm-hmm. Than there are, you know, developing and drilling oil in the Gulf of Mexico. We, we have so many people outta work. I think we were really looking forward to offshore wind as the future of energy and to bring. Our maritime industry back.

45:11 Um mm-hmm. So it's absurd that we're still playing this game, drilling holes to hell. We could be doing. Yeah. So many more smarter, uh, economic, uh, we could have, we could, we're still drilling holes to hell when we know we could have a much smarter and sustainable economy. Absolutely. Very well said. Uh, Scott, this has been so great to have you on the podcast. Uh, it's, it's inspiring. I'll tell you, I've never heard of anybody speak more passionately about the Gulf of Mexico in my life, and I do appreciate that.

45:53 I think it goes to show you're not the only one. I know there are a. People in, in south, in, in, you know, the Gulf States in the southern US who love the Gulf of Mexico, who visit there every year. Yeah. Enjoy their beaches, enjoy the water, who live off the land, live off the water. And it's very important that we keep them in mind, that they speak up as well as others to support them in making sure that their livelihoods and their lifestyles are protected. And I think that's an extremely great point. You've made those points clear in what, why. We need to do and what the oil companies need to do by cleaning up their stuff before they even go on to doing something new. And I do appreciate that. I hope the administration hears that from people, not, not only, but with, but yourself.

46:36 Like that you're talking about it, but everybody else who understands this now and how important it is, Scott, this has been. A huge pleasure to get to know you, and a huge pleasure to have you on the podcast. Love to have you back on to talk more about the golf 'cause that's a special place in my heart. Um, you know, since I've been working there, um, we'd love to, to chat with you again. Oh yeah. Anytime. Andrew, thanks so much for the time and thanks for everybody who's listening. Thank you, Scott, for joining us on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. What a fantastic storyteller. I used to work in the Gulf of Mexico and out stationed outta Louisiana at Louisiana University's Marine Consortium. It was a great place. It was a lovely, wonderful place. We actually talking just before we interviewed about how the sunset and that marsh land is so beautiful.

47:21 And there's actually a live camera from lumcon. I don't know if it's still up, but there was a live camera from LUMCON where you can see the sunset and you can see how beautiful it is and how peaceful it is. It's so, so wonderful. Unfortunately, it's getting flooded right now 'cause the sea level rise. It may not be there for very long in the next decade or so, but that's okay. LUMCON will still survive their building, a new building in HOA and gonna be great. But the one thing that I love is Scott really emboldens the passion that. The people in the Gulf States have for the Gulf of Mexico, he talks about how, you know it's a boating community. Louisiana especially is a boating community. It's a boating state. People love to be on the Ocean. They love to fish. They love to just enjoy the weather.

48:02 They love to enjoy the water. They want shrimpers. They have crabbers, they hunt alligators And so forth. They just live off the land and they love. Nature. They love fishing in their lakes. They love just being around the water. They love beaches, they love their beaches. He talks a lot about being on a beach in Mississippi, which is very undervalued in the tourism industry, but they do have beautiful beaches, And so it's just amazing to see the passion around the way he speaks very poetic and encapsulates the passion that people have for the Gulf of Mexico. In the Gulf of Mexico states, and I just think it's such an important aspect to how people see the Gulf of Mexico and how important it is to protect it. Even, you know, the differences between some of the Gulf states, you have Florida, who doesn't want drilling at all, but it's okay to do it in Louisiana.

48:48 It's very interesting to see how that happens. So please keep an eye on that and look at how people are targeted and different states are targeted. When this comes into play and we see people trying to get leases so that they can drill potentially in 30 years down the road in making sure that climate change just keeps happening and keeps happening and keeps happening. These leases are not gonna be drilling by the next year or by the next two years. It's gonna take a long time. And just as Scott said, it's gonna take 20, 30 years before these things are even tapped. And what they need to do is look after the wells that haven't. Been decommissioned first, and there's a lot of jobs within that. So how about we worry about that before we worry about drilling new holes? There should be an essence or just a hint of responsibility by these oil and gas companies, but the government allows them to get away with it.

49:32 Not just the government, this administration, but other administrations as well. It's everybody. And so we need to ensure that doesn't happen anymore and that we protect the people. Protect the environment and the people who depend on that environment of the Gulf State. So I think this was a great episode to really focus in on the people and why the Gulf of Mexico matters so, so much. So this is gonna be an interesting episode. I hope you enjoyed it. I'd love to hear your comments down below. If you're watching this on YouTube, if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast app, whether it be Spotify, apple Podcast, Amazon Music, whether you're listening to this on my website, speak up for blue.com. Go to speak up for blue.com/feedback. Let me know what you think. You can leave a voice message. Or you can just type in your message, whatever you'd like to say about the episode.

50:13 And also you can follow us at Speak up for blue.com/follow on any of those podcasts. So I wanna thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the True North Strong and Free. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time and happy conservation.