Wikie and Keijo Orcas: The Breakthrough That Could Save Them, Or Come Too Late

0:00 You are not going to believe this. France just made a major move that could change the fate of two captive orcas forever. But here's the part that no one's talking about. This decision does not mean they are leaving tomorrow. We're gonna talk about that and the Whale Sanctuary Project on this episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. Let's start the show. Hey everybody. Welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. I'm your host, and/or Lewin, Marine biologist and science communicator here to tell you what's happening with the ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean by taking action. On today's episode, we are going to be talking about two orcas in France who might make a trip across the Atlantic into Canada to join the Marine Sanctuary Project in Nova Scotia.

0:50 This. I'll be honest, I never thought we'd actually get to this point. This is something that I didn't think was gonna happen anytime soon. I thought it was gonna happen down the road. I've done two episodes on this before on these latest developments, but before we were talking about belugas in Marine land in Canada. Now we're talking about two orcas in Marineland and TIB is in France. And we are going to be talking about that by going through a bunch of things. We're gonna talk a little bit about the orcas and give you a little bit of history on that. We're gonna talk about what France actually decided, why this is such a big change from earlier rejections that France has made. What still has to happen before any of these orcas go anywhere?

1:31 And what the Whale Sanctuary project has to say about this and what Canada has said and not said, why this moment matters for captive citations globally, and what to watch out for next. We're gonna talk about that all today, so I can't wait to do it. But let's just get into what this means and who are the orcas that we're talking about. So we're talking about Wiki and Caho. They are right now in Marine land. Tib in France, And so just a little talk. They were both born in marineland of anti tib, so Wiki the birth in origin. So Wiki is a female Icelandic orca, born on June 1st, 2001. So she's about 24 years old at marineland of anti tib in France, meaning that she's never lived outside of captivity.

2:13 So her parents were captive orcas captured in the wild for the parks breeding program. Wiki grew up in the concrete tanks and performed shows throughout her life. She became known internationally for learning to mimic some human speech sounds, which is kind of interesting. And then Wiki has given birth to two calves at Marineland Moana, who was born March 16th, 2011, unfortunately died October, 2023. And Caho the other orca that we're talking about, which was born in November 20th, in 20. 13. So Wiki has been in concrete tanks for 24 years now as of 2025, so a release would be great for her. And Ke Jo, as I said before, born November 20th, 2013, at the same facility like his mother, ke Jo has never left.

2:59 Captivity growing up in the park tanks and being part of the performances until citation shows were actually banned in France, similar to Canada and the US Ke Joe's Wiki's younger son, his sibling Moana, died in 2023, And then Ke Jo has been in those same tanks for about 12. Years. Now, here's the situation. So Marine Land was the only facility in France housing orcas in 2021, French law banned captive whale and dolphin shows putting an end date of December, 2026 for all animals still being held. So no shows for those animals. As a result, Marineland closed to the public in January, 2025, but Wiki occasional remain in those tanks pending relocation decisions.

3:40 Now, those tanks, unfortunately, are deteriorating in the care and the water quality's getting worse, so there is a bit of a hurry in that respect. But unfortunately, like the previously facility house, a small group of orcas, Moana died as I mentioned. And there was also Anu Wiki's brother died in March, 2024, leaving just Wiki and Keho, the two orcas that are left in France. So unfortunately, like I said, observers and animal welfare groups, they've reported on the decay tanks and poor water quality since the parks closure. Raising concerns about the orcas wellbeing as they wait relocation. Now relocation is a very difficult thing as we've seen in Canada. There's certain ways that government can step in and be like, Hey, we don't want them to go to another theme park, but we don't really have another.

4:22 Option at this point. So this is a problem right now where water quality's getting worse, the tanks are decaying because there's no money coming in because the park has shut down. What do we do with these orcas? So here's what France has actually decided as of the date of this recording. It could change. It has changed in the past. They essentially said that they are signing over the two orcas. To the Whale Sanctuary Project in Nova Scotia. Now the key thing here is that they're signing over. We don't know what that means. I'll clarify that in a second. But this is interesting 'cause they're changing their tune from a couple of months ago when they said No, there's no way that the Whale Sanctuary project is ready for relocation at this point in time.

5:04 And so we're not even thinking about it. But now they've actually said they're signing over these two orcas. So essentially what that means is they're endorsing with the Whale Sanctuary Project as an option. So it doesn't mean that they're saying, Hey, France has not formally identified that the Whale Sanctuary project is gonna be the place, but they've formally identified as the preferred and ethical destination for the orcas and committed to working towards that outcome. I know a lot of you aren't gonna be happy about this. People aren't buying into the Whale Sanctuary project for a number of. It could be because one, they're American and they're working in Canadian waters. They haven't gotten funding, which we'll talk about in a second. Nothing is built yet, which we'll talk about as well. So there's a lot of people who are against it.

5:45 This is not me endorsing it as well. There's a lot to happen here. I would like to see these animals free at some point. Is it gonna be the Whale Sanctuary project? Who knows? But there's a case for it. So this is a huge change. As I mentioned before, France previously rejected the relocation plans, citing a, you know, readiness and timing concern. So the fact is there's nothing built for this whale sanctuary in Nova Scotia. They don't have permissions, they don't have a lot of things, so there's a lot of things that happen. But this newsstand signals that the government now accepts the sanctuary model as a viable and compliant with French animal welfare law. So they must have done some talking or more research into what was planned here.

6:25 And again, I've said this in other episodes, this sanctuary, as I've talked to the people of the whale sanctuary before, I've done interviews with them before, a link to the show that I've done with them. It's interesting to hear what they have planned. This is not a plan where they just throw the animal in And then just leave it. These animals have been a captivity for all of their lives, both animals. So they have to say, okay, Wiki and Keho are here. Say they arrive. What happens? They have to have full-time care. They have to have people feeding it all the time. They have to have veterinarians on staff to be able to look after these animals and make sure that they are okay. There's gonna be a lot of people looking at this. This is a sanctuary model, just like Kako from the movie, free Willy, just like that, that animal.

7:06 They have to watch everything. They have to observe things, they have to test things out. It is an experiment, but it's also an experiment of two very sensitive animals have gone through a very traumatic life so far. And so this is all gonna be new to them. And so they're gonna have to watch this as much as possible. So it's not as if they're just releasing it into the wild and hoping for the best. So there's a lot of stuff that still has to happen before we go into it. So here it is. I'm gonna talk to you about what. Hurdles need to be cleared before this can happen. So the sanctuary infrastructure still needs to be completed. It hasn't been completed yet. Funding must be secured. That's probably why the sanctuary infrastructure hasn't been cleared. But also the transport logistics and veterinary plans must be finalized.

7:49 And the biggest thing that are really stopping all of this. Canadian permits have to happen, and regulatory approvals are still required, even so the people who live around there still have to approve the sanctuary. And at this point, everything that I've seen, it doesn't look good. It doesn't look good. So there still has to have a lot of things that need to happen before that happens. And also Marine Land's role in cooperation still matter in this. So they have to prep the animals, they have to get it going. I don't know from French law if they have to approve it. I don't think they have to approve it, but I think the government of France has kind of taken over and hoping for the best for these animals. So we'll see what happens, but momentum has increased. Just the process needs is not finished yet.

8:30 And when we talk about funding, this is a huge thing, right? So the sanctuary welcomed France's decision that they wanna see this happen. They've confirmed coordination with French authorities and with Marine Land of ies, and they've emphasized a realistic timeline that could extend into the 2026. A lot of things that I've seen, and I can't confirm if this is right or not, but I've seen summer. Of 2026. That's six months away. That's not far. So that's gonna be really interesting to see if this happens. But the optimism is paired with caution. Right now in the bank, the sanctuary project has $2 million. They need probably 12 to $15 million to complete the project, the infrastructure, the care of the staff, all that kind of stuff. This is like a big thing now.

9:12 Something that we've haven't talked about yet is what Canada has and has not set. So the Canadian Department of Fisheries and Oceans, which is in charge of animal welfare within the government of Canada, has not issued any specific public statement about France's decision yet as of this recording, we have not heard from Canada. This doesn't mean that they've rejected the idea and it doesn't mean that they've approved it. It just means that the process is probably still under review and they're probably speaking with French authorities to find out. How this is gonna go forward. So silence is not necessarily approval or denial, it's just procedural right now. And this could take longer than summer of 2026. I feel like that's an optimistic date. I'd love to hear what you think. Let me know in the comments or go to speak up for blue.com/feedback.

9:55 I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. This is a big thing for releasing captive citations globally. This is a big deal, right? This decision strengthens the legitimacy of ocean sanctuaries as alternative to tanks. It sets a precedent for other countries and raises expectations that governments must act when captivity is no longer legal or. So this is a big change. Like we've seen huge changes in the last like 15 to 20 years around cean captivity, so whale captivity, dolphin captivity. We've seen some aquariums release or plan to release captive dolphins. We've seen some aquariums, release caico, like orcas has happened before.

10:37 We're starting to see precedents of this. We're starting to see just captivity in general of whales and dolphins and citations just stop altogether. And so something has to be done with these animals now that they can't be taken care of. And now that there's no money coming into these facilities 'cause they haven't changed their business model, how do we protect these animals from their inevitable death in, you know, a very dismal. Tank that's probably falling apart and that the water quality is going to crap. Let's be honest. That's what it's really going to. So Wiki and Kajo could influence far more than their own future. They could be the precedent of releasing captive whales into seaside whale sanctuaries.

11:17 That's a huge thing. Here's what you need to look for in the next steps of what's gonna happen. Formal Canadian permitting steps need to be taken. We need to hear from the Canadian government, the DFO Department of Fisheries and Oceans, and we also need to hear what's gonna happen with these permits. Now that another government, a national government, is saying, Hey, you know what? We're willing to part ways with Wiki Keho and have them come over to Nova Scotia. We think it's actually a good idea. Also construction milestones at the sanctuary must be met. We need to see funding announcements to be met. I have a feeling if this happens, there will be funding, whether it's crowdfunding or somebody else is gonna pony up a lot of money. But you know, 12 to $15 million still needs to be raised for the sanctuary to be constructed and actually happen.

11:59 And of course, official timelines from France. And or the sanctuary need to be released. We need to see what's gonna happen in all this. When's construction gonna be done? When's the permitting gonna happen so that the construction could be done? Funding is gonna come through. We'll see when that happens. All these milestones and timelines need to be shared at some point. But let's be honest, we've never been closer to a Marine sanctuary like this, a whale seaside sanctuary than before. You know, we've have seen it in the past to see it in Canada, my home country. Kind of cool. Will this fail? It could. It could fail. That's the problem is like these are the lives of two sentient beings, and we do not wanna see them die prematurely from being released or even the travel over here, but we also don't wanna see them die.

12:43 A dismal death and a tank that's falling apart and with. Terrible water quality. I'd love to hear your thoughts 'cause I know a lot of you wanna share your thoughts. Let me know what you think in the comments below. If you're watching this on YouTube, if you're listening to this on the audio podcast, that's wonderful. I love the fact that you're listening to that. Let me know what you think in our feedback link. Go to speak up for blue.com/. Feedback and let me know there. I would love to have a discussion with you. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'm not here to agree or disagree, I just want to hear what you think. So thank you so much for joining me today and listening to the saga that we've seen for captive whales and seeing if this is actually gonna happen. We are closer than ever and it's gonna happen probably. Faster than we think, whether we like it or not.

13:24 So let's see what happens. Stay tuned, subscribe, follow whatever you need to do to make sure that you stay updated on this story and others around the ocean. I wanna thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. I'm your host, and/or and from the true nor strong and free. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time. And.