Climate Solutions for the Ocean: How Restoring Kelp Forests Could Change the Future of the Seas

0:00 Kelp forests are disappearing fast, and with them we lose one of the most powerful life support systems the ocean has to offer. They shape entire ecosystems, feed communities, buffer, coastlines, and even help stabilize our climate. Yet most people barely think about them unless they see seaweed washed up on the beach. Today we changed that. Scott Icic is here from Ocean Wise. He joins us on the show to reveal how sea forestation is becoming one of the most exciting and overlooked solutions for ocean health, climate resilience, and community wellbeing. We're gonna talk to Scott on this episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. Let's start the show.

0:42 Hey everybody. Welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. I'm your host, and/or Lewin, Marine biologist and science communicator here to tell you what's happening with the ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean by taking action. And today we're gonna be talking about seaweed, not sea grass, which is much different than the podcast I'm trying to start called the Seagrass Effect, which you can go to speak up for blue.com/seagrass to help crowdfund that sucker to get it going. And let's talk about seagrass. Today we're gonna be talking about a seaweed, a particularly important seaweed called kelp and the kelp forest that they create and how they help shape biodiversity, how they help shape ecosystems, how they sequester carbon, how they are a climate change mechanism to bring climate change down.

1:29 This is the be all known all of habitats that we don't talk about. And why don't we talk about 'em maybe is because they're not as sexy in terms of. Coral reefs, right? They don't have these brilliant colors. They're green. Sometimes a little orangey, sometimes a little different types of green, sometimes a little brown, but they are in these beautiful habitats. Maybe not clear water. Maybe that's why they're not sexy, but they have all of these animals that are around it from invertebrates, like sea urchins and starfish to Marine mammal. Like sea otters and sea lions and seals to fish of all different types and colors that are just interesting looking, unique, looking, weird looking. Some are bright orange, some are gray, some are brown.

2:10 Some are just beautiful, absolute beautiful, and they're found not just on the BC's coast, which we're gonna be focusing today. They're found all over the world and they're such an important habitat that we just don't talk about. But today. We are here to talk about it because we're here to talk to Scott Boic, who's the director of the Sea Forestation Program at Ocean Wise. Now, ocean Wise is this Canadian organization that is an international organization, but it's based in Vancouver. It covers a lot of different things. It covers climate change, it covers whales, it covers ocean pollution and plastics. It covers overfishing. It covers so many things within those larger programs that have become something of interest for Canadians and something of interest for the international community.

2:52 They collaborate internationally with a number of different countries and researchers all over the world and they play a big role. And in Canada it's important 'cause I'm obviously, I'm Canadian, but it's important because there aren't a lot of organizations that are based in Canada that are focused on the ocean. Ocean Wise is one of them, and I think it's a huge part of Canada. It's a huge part of making Canadians leaders in ocean conservation, and I really appreciate Ocean Wise, I've wanted to have somebody from Ocean Wise on for my entire time doing this podcast, being able to have Scott on the podcast. Is such an honor and to be able to hopefully bring on more people from Ocean Wise to be able to talk about the different programs is great.

3:33 So here we're talking about sea forestation, how they're restoring kelp forests to help protect 'em and help bolster kelp forests within the ocean. Especially along the BC coast. We're gonna talk about, you know, what it's like to grow them, how fast to grow them, how long they have to grow in sort of like a nursery area, like in a building compared to when they had to bring them out. Spoiler, it's not that long. There's a lot of different things that we talk about in this place and even the barriers to having a big scaled sea forestation around the world like that would be amazing. And we talk about those barriers, funding so forth. But it's great. So I want you to listen. I want you to let me know what you think. So here is the interview with Scott Boychuk. He's the director of Sea four Station at Ocean Wise.

4:14 Enjoy the interview and I'll talk to you after. Hey Scott, welcome to the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. Are you ready to talk about Ocean Wise Kelp and Sea Forest Station? Hey And/or, thanks for having me on the pod. I'm excited to chat, uh, a little bit about Sea Forestation with you today. Fantastic. This is gonna be a lot of fun. I, this is a bit of a bucket list for me. 'cause Ocean Wise, as a Canadian, ocean wise has been such an important part of Marine conservation in general for, for decades for me. And so I've been watching Ocean Wise for a while. I've been watching the programs develop, uh, especially like, you know, the, the, just, even just the seafood program, the sustainable seafood program for Ocean Wise develop over years after year after year and become such a, a mainstay for, uh, Canadian restaurants and grocery stores And so forth.

4:58 And now, you know, ocean Wise has become such, this huge conservation organization and a lot of different programs, especially the Sea Forestation program, which we're gonna be talking about. 'cause I'm very excited. I feel like it doesn't get talked about enough. So I'm really glad we're gonna be able to talk about it today. We're also gonna talk about Ocean Wise, 'cause 'cause I want, I have some questions that I want to get to know. And of course, I, I wanna get to know you Scott, and, you know, I want our audience to know who you are and all that stuff. So let's get into that. First, uh, Scott, why don't you just let us know who you are and what you do. Yeah, sure. Thanks a lot. Uh, well, um, my name is Scott Ick and I'm the director of Sea Forestation at Ocean Wise. Um, I've been in this role for about three years and have a background in education and international development and business.

5:40 Um, I lead, uh, ocean Wise's, sea Forestation initiatives, uh, in British Columbia and in Chile. And, uh, yeah, excited to dig into all things kelp. Uh, it's an exciting place to be right now. And, uh, and thanks for your, uh, support and interest, uh, in Ocean Wise, uh, over, over the last few years. Absolutely. Now, you've had, uh, a, a pretty wide array of background, but very much environmental focused. What led you to that, especially someone with an MBA? You know, like the, we, a lot of times when you get an MBA you go into the person is generally going into some sort of business, uh, 'cause you know, it's a, it's a, it's a master's in business. What sort of steered you towards that, that environmental focus throughout your career?

6:24 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, I mean, not to go on too, uh, long a winded, uh, biography here. But, um, it, it really started for me when I was 19. I, I spent a year in Indonesia, um, in Sumatra, in Northern Sumatra. And, uh, I just remember my first time driving past some of the, honestly, the clear cut rainforest. And I found out that that was being replanted with, uh, with palm trees for palm oil and just growing, growing up in Edmonton, um, kind of a, a young kid understanding what the impacts of globalization, uh, were on, on, on the planet. Uh, really kind of opened my eyes to some of the more global environmental issues that, that we were facing.

7:05 Um, you know, that was a, that was around 2004, 2005. Um, you know, I feel like. Uh, I guess not so much a special time, but a unique time, at least in my own personal journey for the environmental movement And mm-hmm. Uh, that just got me kind of on this, on this path. I had always been interested in environmental issues and spent a lot of time outdoors with my family growing up and had that connection to, uh, the land and the ocean. But, um, that was, uh, that year was really a moment for me that I decided to dedicate more of my, my time and, and really my career towards those issues. That's interesting too. And, and you know, leading up to ocean wise, you know, which is very obviously focused on, on the ocean.

7:46 You know, you talk about, you know, you know, going to Indonesia, an island, an island nation, you're seeing a lot of stuff on land. Did you have a, an interest or did you have an idea of the issues that were going on in the ocean, especially around, um, coastal habitats? You know, things like kelp, obviously not in Indonesia, but things like kelp, seagrasses, coral reefs, you know, salt wa, salt water, salt marshes And so forth, and mudflats, uh, a lot of different coastal habitats that are around. But you know, the, the, um, the problems that they were having. Had you had a lot of knowledge of that before, uh, coming to Ocean Wise? Um, before Ocean Wise, yes. But I can say at 19, not so much as I said, you know, pretty much when I locked, growing up in Edmonton.

8:30 Right. You know, we, we got to the Pacific a few times, uh, growing up. But, uh, I think, you know, through, over the course of my twenties and, uh, and thirties and certainly going back to school, um, for international development, you know, saw the importance of the ocean. Not only its intrinsic value, um, but also kind of how many people, hundreds of millions of people, and really all of us depend on a healthy ocean for our day-to-day wellbeing. Um, So it was, uh, you know, I, I don't have a degree in, in Marine biology. Mm-hmm. And I, I agree that sometimes the MBA is, uh, is unique in, in the nonprofit kind of environmental sector, but, uh, we can touch on that a little bit, um, more, but certainly I think the ocean is kind of having a moment right now more mm-hmm.

9:16 More broadly in the public, um, in the public eye. And people are. Uh, really more people are really understanding the importance of, uh, of ocean health. And I think it's so important that people with MPAs, people with, you know, various business backgrounds or various backgrounds understand, you know, things that are happening to the environment. You know, the, I think this is a very important aspect to ocean conservation in general, because, you know, it's not just scientists. Like, I always tell people, I focus that a lot in this podcast where it's not just scientists that need to be involved in the ocean, it's, it's everybody. We all live part of it, we all benefit from it, but we all part are like, are part of the consequences of what we're seeing in, in the ocean.

9:58 And to be able to have people who are at different stages in life, different cultures, different, you know, professional backgrounds And so forth, have that ability to open up and just be like, yes, we need to do better and recognize it. Uh, and, and do be in positions like, you know, like your position as director, you almost need to have an MBA or it benefits you to have an MBA so that you can manage these, these sophisticated problems. Right. And, and I Do you find. In your experience and the people that you've, uh, interacted with at the same level, like within an MBA program? 'cause I believe you did the MBA, the executive MBA program at Queens, correct? That's correct, yeah. Which you get a lot of people from various backgrounds who are already working. You know, this is something that's done on top of it.

10:40 It's, it's very, uh, I had a couple friends who have gone through it. It's, it's an intense program. It's a great program. Obviously Queens University is one of the best. Uh, and it's, it's, but you're getting people from all over the place. Did you have that mindset when you went into like your, your MBA of like, okay, I'm gonna go into the nonprofit sector And then to speak to people, or, or have, or were you influenced by people who were also within your cohort to do the same? Hmm. Yeah. Interesting. Well, I was in the nonprofit sector before joining or before going through the executive MBA as well. I was, uh, in Ottawa for five years with the United Nations Association in Canada. Right. Um, and I think, you know, part of the motivation for going into the MBA was just to kind of round out a skillset.

11:26 Um, you know, in, in nonprofits and certainly larger nonprofits, like Ocean Wise, we operate, uh, very much like, uh, you know, a business in many ways. We've got big budgets to balance. We have revenue, uh, targets to bring in. There's, uh, there's milestones and project management activities, uh, that must be kind of delivered on time and on budget. So those types of skills are very transferable from the MBA to the nonprofit sector and organizations like Ocean Wise. And, but I would also say kind of the main takeaway for me, um, from the Queens program and, uh, showed out to all my wonderful colleagues that, uh, suffered, uh, with me through that, uh, 18 months was really, um, understanding how to develop and, um, and sustain high performing teams.

12:14 It was really around team teamwork and leadership, um, and understanding that. Uh, you know, how to fit the pieces of the puzzle together to achieve a common goal. And that, that type of a mindset, I think is transferable, um, in, in any organization and in many aspects of your life. Um, and I think I, I've tried to do what I can to bring some of those lessons and, uh, and learnings, uh, to Ocean Wise and to the Sea Forest Station team. Fantastic. Can you just kind of give people an idea if they haven't heard of, of Ocean Wise before, what Ocean Wise is, And then after that, can you just kind of, um, tell us what attracted, I mean, we, I, I bet you, I can tell you what attracted, but let let us know what, what personally, what attracted you to work, uh, for Ocean Wise.

13:01 Um, well, ocean Wise is a global conservation organization based in Vancouver, British Columbia. Um, our mission is to build a global community that takes meaningful action to protect and restore the ocean, uh, in tackling plastic pollution over fishing and climate change, uh, through research, education, uh, innovation and direct conservation, uh, to ensure healthy Marine ecosystems and, and thriving, uh, communities. And we're doing a lot of great work. I'd encourage people to, uh, pop by the website or follow us on social media to learn more. You can sign up to the newsletter. We've got a great, uh, external communications team that's, uh, providing, uh, fun and interesting and important updates about our work on, on a regular basis.

13:44 And certainly we are looking for more ocean supporters to, to follow the movement and get involved, uh, with Ocean Wise in a variety of different ways. Uh, you know, I was, this is, uh, my sixth year actually with Ocean Wise. So I've been here for, uh, for some time and, you know, it was just a wonderful opportunity to get into a new arena. I did not, as I mentioned, I didn't have a Marine biology background, but from a, from a climate and environmental perspective, I, I clearly understood how important the ocean was. And I, and I, I guess if I wanna apply perhaps some of the, uh, some of the skills or lessons I learned in the NBA, I thought it was kind of a, a rising stock.

14:25 You know, I thought it was a good bet, you know, to get into the ocean game. There would be lots of work, lots of development. I mean, the ocean. Uh, the ocean has received a really, a disproportionately small amount of funding in the environmental movement. And yeah, and even as a subset of that kelp has even been more largely overlooked. Um, but yeah, uh, you know, certainly the opportunity within Ocean Wise, um, the opportunity to move to Vancouver and, and be actually a little bit closer to home with my family in Alberta, were important reasons, but, um, really just an exciting opportunity to get more involved with, uh, with Ocean conservation. Well, it's fantastic because, you know, one thing I, I know in.

15:08 In Canadas, there aren't many organizations that are strictly dedicated to the ocean. There are a lot in the us unfortunately there aren't as many here. Mm-hmm. And Ocean Wise is one of those few that really stand up for the ocean, not only from an advocacy level, but from a science level, from a conservation level, from a community level. You seen the, the organization seems to hit at every, you know, from, from, uh, the ground up essentially, you know, from, from politics off the top to ground level to community and, And so forth. It's, it's very grassroots at the same time. And I, that, that's one of the things that I really admire about it. Uh, and, and I just, I just love that fact now. One of the programs, it has many, is like, so there's, there's like overarching, you know, sort of topics like, like climate change, ocean pollution and plastics overfishing that, you know, whales is, is a huge thing.

15:59 Mm-hmm. Now, under the climate change program, there's the sea forest station program, which is, is what you're the director of. And we're here again, we're gonna focus the rest of the conversation on this because it's, it's such an important aspect because I don't think a lot of people really understand how important coastal habitats, especially kelp forests are to our environment, are to the climate change, um, you know, race, I guess to reduce climate change. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of, of kelp and just this, the sea, how the sea forestation program came, you know, kelp is obviously a big part of it. If there's other, you know, habitats that are part of it as well.

16:41 Can you just kind of give us a little bit of a brief description before we dive in a little deeper? Yeah, sure. Well, I mean, there's so much to say about, uh, the importance of kelp. Um, and I, I think you're right. I mean, lots of people, um, you know, seaweed and kelp are not kind of everyday topics for, for, for for many Canadians, you know? Mm-hmm. Unless perhaps, um, you've got some nori on your plate at the sushi restaurant or, you know, something else like that. But, you know, and in fact, kind of on more of the more kind of seaweed, aquaculture side of things, you know, some of the products, um, and some of the components of kelp, you know, primarily alginate is used in, in hundreds of everyday kind of consumer products that people might not be aware of.

17:21 So there is this kind of, uh, there is this background of the importance of the seaweed industry globally, um, that, uh, uh, that is growing quickly. And I think, um, you know, from a. From a land or from a world and kind of constrained land resources, you know, uh, um, a commodity perhaps such as seaweed that requires no, no land, no fresh water, no fertilizers or additives, you know, could play an important role in, in the future of food security and, uh, and, and climate, uh, around the world. But the Sea Forestation Initiative at, at Ocean Wise is really focused on restoring and protecting wild kelp forests. Um, we have seen a global decline of around 50% of the world's kelp forests, that that hasn't happened evenly around the world.

18:08 There's large kind of temporal and spatial, uh, differences in different regions, and there's a variety of different factors for the decline of kelp. But, uh, climate change and various ecosystem imbalances are, are two of the kind of primary suspects for. For most of the declines, um, I would say one example is the Marine heat blob that moved up the west coast of California and Washington and, uh, and Oregon and, and BC in Alaska in 20 14, 20 15 wiped out about 95% of California's bull kelp, uh, which has not, uh, has not recovered. And so, you know, those types of losses, um, are really devastating for the near shore ocean ecosystems because Kelp provides just so many var, so many different ecosystem services from support, um, for fisheries, uh, from buffering against coastal erosion, uh, from supporting just a, a wide variety of, of Marine, uh, biodiversity.

19:11 Um, and nutrient cycling, not to mention kind of the carbon, uh, sequestration and drawdown potential, uh, that kelp and seaweed has in general. There's, there's just a, a rich, uh, a rich abundance of ecosystem services that kelp forests provide that we, we really need to urgently, uh, protect. Yeah, it seems like there's, as you mentioned, there's been this huge boom in, you know, putting, you know, kelp in clothes like, or making clothes from it, from making yarn from it, And then food as well as, And so there's a lot of these different things that are popping up even in the, and and they, they wanna do it sustainably, of course. And even in the point where, um, you know, forests are redu are, are reduced by, by significant amount 'cause of climate change.

19:55 Coastal development, a lot of different things that are, that are happening. So the, the, the, the, the system itself is in trouble from losing kelp, um mm-hmm. Even with the fact of, you know, sea star wasting disease, you know how we realize sea star wasting sea stars of that, of that disease that, that were, that succumbed to those diseases were such an important part of keeping sea urchins down. We didn't realize that at, at the beginning until they were, they were lost, lost some more phos, real forest realizing that. And, And so it's, it's, there's so many things that are activating after it, it makes sense to have this sea, you know, sea forest station kind of program to come up. So this is, is, is, is this a, um, a, a program where you're protecting existing kelp forests or working to protect existing kelp forests as well as restoration?

20:44 Or is it more of a restoration project that will sort of boost, you know, the, the kelp forest that we see today? Yeah, so we are focused, uh, more on the active restoration of kelp forests in bc. There, um, there are a lot of, there are some groups who are doing some very important mapping, um, and kind of longer term mapping in the province, uh, right, to really understand the trends of, of kelp forests in, in British Columbia and, and what is happening, uh, on that side of things. We started four years ago, um, the Sea Forestation Initiative, and right now we have some important projects going on in British Columbia.

21:24 Um, actually just yesterday it was a, it was a long and very wet day in house sound, uh, with, with an incredible team. Uh, we were out planting some of the green gravel that we. Had grown at our kelp nursery at the Pacific Science Enterprise Center, uh, in West Vancouver. We have, uh, a space there generously, uh, loaned to us from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. And this is where we, uh, trial innovative restoration techniques. Um, and this was the third year of successfully growing some sugar kelp on, on green gravel, which is, uh, UA unique restoration technique. Um, I won't go into too much detail now, right? Maybe we can focus on it, uh, a little bit later if there's a more specific question.

22:08 But, uh, we were out inhouse sound, uh, uh, yesterday out planting that green gravel at the restoration site. So, uh, that was a big milestone for us. Um, it's a lot of work to get that, uh, to get that project kind of to that point. And we were very pleased that the wind cooperated, uh, although not so much, uh, the rain and we'll be at that site, uh, three or four times over the, in 2026 to monitor the progress. Um, and we were delighted to see some of the, the kelp that we had planted last year at the site, doing well with reproductive tissue, uh, the source on the blades, which was, uh, which was a great win as well. And we, we have another, uh, slightly larger project in Barclay Sound in partnership with the Sayat First Nation.

22:53 Um, and this is a slightly different approach where we are actually trying to, uh, manage the urchin population at an urchin barren. So I was glad that you brought that up very much on top of your sea forestation, uh, and/or, which is, which is great. And we do have an urchin issue in British Columbia. Mm-hmm. Um, as you mentioned, uh, urchin populations have exploded, um, significantly due because of the functional extrication of sea otters in British Columbia during the fur trade. Uh, you know, most estimates suggest that we lost around 99% of the sea otters and, uh, And then the sea star wasting disease, uh, as you mentioned as well, yeah.

23:36 Those two primary predators of the urchins, uh, being abstinence have led to really a significant boom in the urchin population. And urchin populations will eat through an entire kelp forest And then remain dormant or kind of in a zombie state where they are actually, um, starving and they're not usually not commercially viable, but they will remain there and, and really prevent the kelp forest from recovering. And we see huge reductions in biodiversity at those urchin variants. I think you me, you, you mentioned a really interesting point because here in Canada, we, we on, I know on the east coast and probably on the west coast, if you can, if there's a, there's fisheries for urchins, you know?

24:18 Mm-hmm. And they, they use their, their row like in, in like, like caviar and things like that. And you can get some really cool, uh, it. They taste interestingly, you know, it's a cool texture and stuff and it's a big, it's a big thing here in Canada as well as elsewhere. Um, but you mentioned like they're not in, they're not in good condition enough to actually fish out. So like what do you, what do you do with them? You know, in terms of like how, like in a place where you talk where it's just like a sea and barren where they're not gonna prevent kelp 'cause you're not gonna spend the money 'cause the money and the time and the effort. You just mentioned how, you know, you're not in the best conditions all the time. You know, you know, the BC coast is beautiful, but it does rain. There is wind, it's a coast, it's a Pacific ocean.

25:00 Uh, And so sometimes the conditions aren't perfect. So there's a lot of work. This is, it's a lot of people hours to put in and, and you know, it's, it's, it's a grunt work to, to put all these, these kelp in. And so you wanna make sure you have the right spots for it. So, you know, like, you know, when you have a, a site where you have this barren of, of urchins that are not viable for fisheries. Do you just skip over that, that area? Do you get rid of the urchins in that area? How does that work with, with, when it comes to a complicated site like that? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's a great question. And this is, this is, uh, part of, uh, how kind of the regulatory environment plays a role in, in this work as well.

25:45 And we've connected with, uh, several experts, um, from the University of Auckland and, uh, a few, uh, a few other organizations in California and Australia, um, who have done some really interesting work on urchin management. And in those jurisdictions, they are permitted, um, uh, through a variety of different means, but, uh, sometimes through kind of like a scientific permit or a restoration permit to actually go and call. Uh, the urchins. Mm-hmm. And the example from New Zealand is, um, there were kind of four two hectare sites. Um, and they were, uh, allowed to call the urchins to get that urchin density down from about 20 urchins per square meter to one or two.

26:29 And that's kind of what you need to get, um, the density down to, to relieve the grazing pressure of the urchins enough for the kelp to have a, a good chance to recover. Um, in Canada right now, we're not quite at that. Mm-hmm. And we're not quite at that stage yet where we're able to go and call. And of course that would be a conversation with, with the First Nation and of course, and other local community members as well, if that was, uh, if that was something they were, um, interested or in, or supportive of. Mm-hmm. And, you know, we've been developing all the projects that we've. We've trialed and are currently doing in British Columbia, uh, with First Nations. We don't have, um, any projects that, uh, don't kind of engage the First Nation early on and, and throughout the project.

27:14 But, um, interestingly, um, in the New Zealand example, there was actually some initial resistance to the culling of the urchins. Of course. Yeah. But they kind of got permission to try it, and the results were very positive. The kelp bounced back very quickly, actually. As long as you just kind of take that pressure off, you know, nature proves its resiliency, uh, usually time and time again. And then once the kelp forest was kind of back and they could see this really positive outcome, the, the social support and kind of that social license, uh, was actually quite a bit stronger to continue and to expand. And so I think in this sense, it's a little bit of a short-term pain for long-term gain situation.

27:59 Uh, of course we don't want to, we don't wanna call the urchins, but if the end outcome is a, is a healthier kelp forest, more balanced ecosystem, and all the other benefits that a thriving kelp forest would provide, then I think we have to weigh the options in front of us. Well, and you'd also see a rebound of those urchin populations within that area as the kelp forests grow. You know, providing that safe hiding spots in a, in a, in an area where they can eat, but eat sustainably and not destroy the regrowth of, of the kelp forest. So I think it's, it's a great point that you, that you raise there. 'cause you know, sometimes when you see these things work and how fast they come back, you know, kelp, forest kelp like, grow really fast and I don't think, you know.

28:42 Yeah. So it's, it's a great, um, it's a great organism to work with because they grow so fast, uh, and they grow so tall. So it's, it's great to see. You mentioned earlier, I, I wanna talk about a little bit of that growth. 'cause you mentioned earlier there's a, there's an area that DFO lent, um, a, a sort of a structure, I guess like a building that you can, that you can plant these, uh, how long do you allow the kelp to grow? From, I guess seedling or property goal to to, you know, to an out planting before you actually go put it out. Like, how long does it take to grow? Uh, And then, Yeah. And when do you to, to a point where you're like, okay, these are ready to go out to the, to the ocean Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. And, uh, we really enjoy giving, uh, giving the odd tour, um, particularly to some of the school groups we've, uh, uh, had at the kelp nursery.

29:30 It's, uh, it's great to show people the process, um, because it really is quite novel, uh, for a lot of people. And I have to give a lot of credit to, uh, max and Dana on my team to c forestation to c forestation specialists who have, uh, really led the work in the nursery over the last, uh, two years. And I would say almost the problem we have is that we've become too good at growing kelp in the nursery and it grew too quickly. Um, and once you actually, uh. Refine and kind of, uh, nail down the right conditions for kelp, it can really take off. So we probably would've, uh, we'll probably move up our timelines about two weeks for the next batch that we will start, uh, in January. Um, but to answer your question, it takes about six weeks.

30:13 So, you know, the very, the overly simplistic, uh, kind of steps of growing kelp in the nursery is, uh, will go out, um, to a local population, uh, of kelp in, uh, around late September, mid-September, collect some of the sous, uh, from the blades. And the sous is just where kind of the, the reproductive tissue of the kelp, um, is. And once we can, once we have that, we'll take it back to the nursery. We'll kinda actually sterilize it in iodine so that, uh, we kind of remove some of the other organisms. We want the kelp to grow, but we don't want everything, uh, else attached to the kelp to grow in the lab.

30:54 Okay. Um, that we have. So we want to try and. Mitigate some of the other growth. And then actually we layer that source, um, in, in paper towel, uh, overnight and put it in the fridge. And that kind of stresses the kelp to release the spores. Then we come back the next day, put it in a solution, put it in some sterilized sea water, and, uh, the water instantly goes cloudy. And that's what we call kelp soup. And, and we've never, I don't think anyone's ever tasted it. Um, but, uh, this is what we put on the, on the cobbles, on the rocks, uh, which kind of are really the basis of the green gravel technique that I mentioned earlier. Yeah. And we'll spray those spor, we'll spray those four fights.

31:36 Uh, the, the Mita fights on the, uh, green on the boulders and essentially. There's a lot more to it in terms of the monitoring and the nutrients and the lights and the temperature. But, uh, after about five or six weeks, we'll start to see just a little bit of fuzz on the rocks, and that's the baby kelp that's growing there. And then we can go and take those, uh, rocks out to house sound as we did and place them at the restoration site. So it's, um, it's become quite a science Yeah. For us. And I, you know, max and I were there, uh, three years ago with the first batch, having never grown kelp before. But uh, Yeah, when we saw. Uh, when we saw the first calp underneath the microscope, uh, in the fall of 2023, we were, we were delighted Um, So we've come a long ways.

32:21 Well, even thinking like, I thought they'd have to be a lot bigger. I thought they'd have to be, you know, like, say like two feet or, or things like that. The fact that she's like, no, once they start to, like, you start to see them on the rocks, you can just put the rocks. That's really cool. Mm-hmm. To see, And then it'll go, it'll, it'll just grow from that. Um, I, I really, I, I think that's amazing. I, I didn't think it would be that, that surprised me. That got me. Yeah. I wasn't, I wasn't ready for that. Yeah. That's pretty cool. That was cool. Uh, that's awesome. Uh, now we mentioned, you know, the, the, the ecosystem services that kelp provide, which is, which is great. Um, and, but before, as we get into, you know, growing them and you said, you know, you're going to monitor them, you know, over the year mm-hmm.

33:03 Mm-hmm. As you, as you grow, um, as they grow. Uh, why is monitoring such an important, like, standardized monitoring and like, there's a, there's a field guide, uh, like, like there's a, there's a guidebook, you know, that Ocean Wise and, and Camp Force Alliance put out. Why is that important, you know, to use in the field for monitoring and why is standardized monitoring important for this, this project or program? Yeah. Um, also a great question. I think that's, uh, and that this is really a focus for us, uh, at Ocean Wise in the Sea Forestation initiative, uh, over the next, uh, year and two and really beyond, and. Even to go back to an earlier comment that you mentioned at, uh, around the site and Barkley sound, um, around kind of the biodiversity uplift.

33:46 This is where we're going to be installing an underwater camera, um, to monitor, you know, the recovery of the kelp forest and understand better kind of the urchin behavior and urchin dynamics as well. Yeah. Um, and it's gonna have Yeah, a live stream to YouTube so people can know. That's what I was waiting for. That was my next question. That's awesome. Yeah. And so we're, uh, yeah, we're really excited about that. And uh, you know, I think there's, there's certainly a very, uh, rigorous science component to that, but also I think the communication and just bringing people a little bit closer to our work in a very remote part, um, on the west, uh, west side of Vancouver Island there on Barkley sound. It's, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's difficult to get to and I think we.

34:29 We are trying our best to bring this work a little bit closer to people in their everyday lives, make it more accessible. So, um, but that's a big part of the monitoring piece. And we were delighted to publish the monitoring, reporting and verification, uh, guidebook, uh, last year with the Kelp Forest Alliance. Uh, they've been a strong supporter of ours, and I would encourage folks if you're, if you are interested in kelp restoration Yeah. To go check out, uh, the website. There's a lot of interesting resources there and, and they're doing, uh, great work to kind of coordinate the global community of practice around kelp restoration. And they have a database there, uh, to upload restoration projects.

35:11 And really, one of the main motivations to draft the MRV guidebook was to help standardize the way that kelp forest health are measured and monitored. So that. Uh, when organizations, communities, and other practitioners in this space are uploading their data, hopefully the idea is that more of it would be used or would be collected using the same methods. So we can compare more easily, apples to apples, oranges to oranges, And then hopefully understand, uh, a little bit better about which techniques have worked best and which, where there's room for improvement. And really to help the, the sharing of knowledge and lessons learned.

35:52 So, um, you know, the monitoring for us is extremely important to understand what has been working and what has not. I think it's just as important. Uh, you know, we, we have a, we've set a culture inside the organization, organization and inside the initiative that, you know, we need to fail fast and learn from those mistakes and build off that. But we also don't wanna. Duplicate the wheel. So, you know, under having those databases, like with the KFA and also some of the regional hubs that, uh, and communities of practice that we're a part of, kind of allow us to allocate time and resources in the most effective way. Um, and uh, and I guess even just to add onto that quickly, you know, the monitoring is important from all, both kind of a carbon drawdown point of view.

36:40 You know, we'd be interested to help or we'd be interested to start understanding a little bit more, uh, in detail the carbon stock of the kelp forest. Yeah. As well as the biodiversity gains that we see between an urchin baron and a kelp forest. And then also the social and cultural value, um, to the forest, to communities and, and indigenous nations that, um, have used kelp forests in a variety of ways, um, for millennia. It's, it's really interesting you meant that It's leading into my, you my storyline is perfect with you because you lead right into my next question, which is, which is fantastic. Um, I, I was gonna ask about, you know, the, the, the biological or ecological goals And then of course the climate related goals, which is such an important part these days as we're really starting to see climate change rear its ugly head in, in the consequences that we're seeing.

37:30 Kelp forests are such an important, they play such an important role for carbon capture and climate mitigation, but they also play a role in, in sort of like biodiversity and habitat restoration. Do you have to balance those goals? Is that something that you have to worry about? Are there trade-offs? Like in certain areas, you're, you're more hopeful for carbon capture, so maybe there's a species that's a little bit better in carbon capture, or there's a species that's a little bit better in fostering biodiversity and, and more of that, that builder. Um, I don't know much about the, the, the interplay between the species, and of course it'll depend on where you're restoring because you want native species and things like that. But I guess the, the original question is like, do you have to have, do you have to balance those, the ecological goals and the climate related goals?

38:16 Yeah, it's a good question. I wouldn't say, um, I wouldn't say that we, I wouldn't say that there's many trade offs. I mean, I guess if you wanted to use some. Extreme examples, but this wouldn't really be restoration. I mean, there are some groups who have tried growing seaweed in the ocean, open ocean and sinking it, you know, as a way, as kind of a CDR technique. So yeah. Um, you know, that there's, there's pros and cons around that, I think. Absolutely. You know, I think, I think there's probably more, there's better ways to, to use that seaweed in that biomass, and there's probably for sure more effective ways to, to pull carbon in a, in a better way out of the atmosphere. But, uh, you know, I, I'm also not closing the door on any options because we really do need kind of, uh, everything in front of us and all hands on deck, um, in, in the fight against climate change.

39:05 So, um, but for us, I mean, we're focused, um, we're focused on the resiliency and the health of the kelp forest And then, you know, all the associated benefits that come after that, um, uh, are, are really just kind of the, the positive outcomes that, that we're hoping for. You know, kelp as a, as a climate ally. Certainly I would say five years ago, um, maybe a little bit longer, it was, uh, there was a real buzz around kelp is kind of a, a climate change ally in silver bullet. And it certainly is. Yeah. But I, you know, it's not, it's not going to, uh, sequester as much carbon perhaps as some people thought.

39:47 Um, you know, it does grow very quickly. It can grow up to a foot or 45 centimeters a day with some species. It can draw down a lot of carbon. Um, but what percent of that gets buried in ocean sediments or exported to the deep abyss and how much is actually sequestered for longer periods of time mm-hmm. Is a really. Difficult question to answer. Mm-hmm. And that's why the kind of the carbon credit market for kelp forests have, uh, have not really become mature yet. Um, right. So yeah, our focus is more so on the biodiversity. We really want to get a better grasp of those benefits, um, and, and other ecosystem services down the road.

40:31 Yeah. Um, but right now, I, you know, within the Sea Forestation initiative, we're treating kind of the carbon and the climate piece as a little bit of the cherry on top. Um, the rest of it for sure. Yeah. I mean, you're getting, you're kind of getting both when you do it, you know, and that's, that's the benefit of, of, of growing kelp. Uh, you know, we focus, I, and as a biologist, you know, obviously I focus on the ecological goals. Uh, we've talked about climate, we haven't talked about the benefits to sort of the social benefits. So the be benefits to indigenous communities, the benefits to communities at large. Um, you know. How are those incorporated into the Sea Forestation program to ensure that, you know, uh, you know, social dimensions, so social dimensions are included?

41:18 Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's also, also a great question. Um, you know, I think we've, uh, we've. We've done some great work with the Scha First Nation to bring out some, uh, some youth from the community with us on the boats. You know, as we go to the restoration sites. We had, um, help from three wonderful high school students, uh, last year who were, uh, you know, kind of rolling up their sleeves and getting their hands dirty. And I Nice, uh, really, uh, hats off, uh, to them 'cause it was hard work for a few days. I think that's an, an important opportunity, you know, particularly with, uh, with young people and young professionals to showcase various careers and conservations. I mean, uh, there's a lot of different, uh, there's a lot of different career pathways for young people.

42:04 Um, and I know that, uh, you know, in, in rural and remote communities, you know, these types of, uh, jobs can provide some really great livelihoods for folks, um, in the communities where perhaps there's, uh, more limited options. And I think with the nation, um, you know, I wouldn't, uh, wanna speak on their behalf, but I, I know that, uh, we have been fortunate to spend some time with, uh, with some of the elders at the s at First Nation. And, um, you know, to summarize or to paraphrase a little bit, I mean, thankful that, uh, we're out there and we're trying to do some of that work with them, but also, um, wanting to lead that work themselves. And that's, uh, that goes towards the restoration activities and the monitoring.

42:46 Um, and we've been, uh, really, really pleased to work as closely as we have with the nation. But we're, we've got some funding to. Provide some other dive training, uh, for community members. And that's part of the capacity building, uh, within the nation that we, we hope, um, will kind of, uh, allow more of the, more of the, the nation to, uh, lead more of the activities in Barclay sound at the restoration sites through the actual, um, delivery of the restoration activities and the monitoring and the reporting. There's a whole bunch of interesting data analysis work that we're gonna have to have done. And, um, I think the, the cultural value of kelp has been there within the community, uh, for a very long time and something that we're, um, excited to, to kind of help grow again.

43:39 Yeah. And, and growing this, this Sea Forestation program, are there specific, I guess, economic or, or policy mechanisms that will, that like, are essential for scaling this program? Hmm. Yeah, so that's interesting. Interesting question. I, I just had a very interesting conversation with, uh, with someone about kind of the economic benefits of restoring kelp forests. Yeah. And that's something that, um, you know, I, the federal government is more interested in. Um, you know, I think it started, um, in some ways with the 30 by 30 agenda and creating more MPAs.

44:20 But I think there's a little bit more, um, desire to understand, okay, the MPA has, the Marine protected area has been created, but what is the economic benefit associated with that? How do you measure the conservation benefit of that? And I think right now, you know, the ecosystem services of kelp, there's, uh, it's almost, it's certainly an underestimation, but, um, Dr. Aaron Eger, um, who is the executive director of the Kelp Forest Alliance, I mentioned earlier. Uh, released a paper last year with an estimate of some of the ecosystem services values of different species of kelp. And the rough numbers were, uh, that each hectare of kelp per year produces around 60 to $145,000 us, um, per hectare per year.

45:12 And that's just accounting for some of the fishery supports And then some of the carbon sequestration and nitrogen fixation. So, you know, all of the other ecosystem services values is not included in that. So that's why I, I say that number is, is likely an underestimation, but our issue right now is that we can't bring that ecosystem services value into these projects in a meaningful way. And until we do that, I think it's going to be difficult to have the budgets and the financing to scale restoration, um, to, uh, a really globally significant level. Um, because we, because they're chronically undervalued, you know, is really the issue, you know, and, and if they are producing a hundred or $150,000 per year in ecosystem services, um, then how do we, how do we make the business case to the right investors or whatever to actually invest in kelp forest because they are really one of the greatest investments we can make in the ocean.

46:17 Yeah, no abs absolutely. They, they definitely are. It's, it's something I think you get, you get your, your best bang for your buck, I feel, with, uh, with, with Kelp Forest. So I think it's, that's our new logo on the Sea Forestation initiative is, uh, kelp is the best bang for the buck. So I love it. I love it. I mean, you know, I just, you look in a kelp forest, I, I live in, just outside of Toronto and I go into the, uh. The, the aquarium, the Ripley's Aquarium. Yeah. They have a great display for, for, uh, for kelp forests. You see all the species that are there, like just the fish species, they're not talk, they didn't, they don't show sort of the invertebrate species. They don't show, you know, the Marine mammals that are, that live in there and that, that thrive in there, you know, the sea stars And so forth.

47:02 It is such an important aspect to, uh, you know, for stability, for biodiversity, for security. Uh, it is just, it's just great. Um, but, you know, there's a lot of things that go with, with restoration. It's not as easy as we're making it sound right now. You know, you've talked about some of the, the, the physical, you know, problems with that, but you know, what, what are some of the like. The biggest scientific or even practical uncertainties when we look at global kelp restoration right now. Mm-hmm. Like the efforts. Mm-hmm. So like, is it genetics, is it resilience, monitoring, or resilience or monitoring ecosystem interactions, invasive species like climate change.

47:44 What are some of the things that are really hindering or some of the biggest barriers, uh, towards, uh, restorations and kelp restoration? Yeah. Well, I mean, unfortunately it's a little bit of all the above. All of the above. Yeah. And I, uh, you know, I think, uh, certainly, you know, I've sound like a broken record probably on, on the funding piece, but, um, you know, we, it is, it is expensive work. These are remote locations. And I think, you know, the, the rough stat is that about 95% of kelp restoration projects are one or two hectares in size because. They're quite expensive, you know, to, to operate and to do, uh, to kind of grow at scale.

48:26 So there's certainly a financial component, but I think as we, as we look to the future, it's, uh, you know, we've got questions around where are the best places to focus restoration efforts in a world, uh, in a warming world, and warming, warming ocean. Um, we've got an interesting project with, uh, with the University of British Columbia and the University of Victoria to do some past modeling of kind of the, of kelp forest, uh, spatial extents, um, in bc but also, And then kind of looking forward under a few different climate scenarios, where might we, our efforts be best placed and other efforts be best placed in the province to, uh, focus on restoration efforts?

49:08 Because there is a thermal tolerance that kelp has, and above that, above that temperature, it cannot reproduce, it cannot survive. And. It's what we've seen, um, in certain spots, uh, throughout the province. You know, most notably I'd say in the state of Georgia, we are seeing much higher temperatures. And so then it, it also goes into the question of, you know, what kind of, um, selective adaptation we might pursue. There's, there's kind of a genetic, there's a genetics part of this, which is I think, quite controversial and rightly so. But, you know, how do we protect, protect the genetic diversity of BC's, kelp forest, but also how do we best, um, set ourselves up for a warmer world?

49:50 And there are pockets of kelp that have proven to be perhaps a little bit more resilient to higher temperatures. You know, should that, should those genetics kind of act as the foundation for future restoration efforts? Um, you know, these are, these are, these are hotly contested questions for sure. That's for sure. And I, I think they deserve a lot of scrutiny. But, um. You know, I think we, we do need to recognize that things are changing very quickly around us. So, um, you know, there's a regulatory component. You know, I would, uh, I would argue that Kelp has really flown under the radar and most global environmental, um, uh, agreements. And, you know, I'm not exactly, don't quote me on this, uh, uh, a hundred percent, but I know kelp has received just a fraction of the funding that Coral reefs have, for example.

50:39 Um, despite kind of having kind of a five to seven times larger area than coral reef reefs. And I don't wanna get all the coral reef, uh, restoration folks angry at me. I'm not picking, I'm not picking a fight, but, um, absolutely, totally agree with you. Totally. Couldn't agree more with you. Yeah, no, it's, it's, uh, yeah, you know, we need to, we need to increase that funding for kelp forests as well. For sure. Um, you know, they cover, um, 30% of the world's coastline, so, um, not insignificant for sure. You know, looking at, you know, we talked about funding, we talked a lot of, a lot of the, the barriers, uh, facing it, uh, facing kelp restoration. Looking forward, past, say 2030, what does success look like for sea forestation?

51:22 You know, like what are we looking at? Scale outcomes change you would make, uh, you know, cons like that, that you would make or would make use, say like consider ca sea forestation as a win for oceans and climate. Yeah. I think, you know, beyond 2030, I think we would, uh. Uh, be able to look at, you know, hundreds if not thousands of restoration projects, you know, at the community level where kelp forests are, are thriving again, and, and resilience and really having the data to, to back that up. You know, being able to kind of visualize the, the success, um, of that work and having kind of a, a co-managed and, you know, a local solution to some of these issues because there's no one right way to go about kelp restoration and, and, uh, folks with, uh, with local knowledge, uh, and the history of, of the place will best know how to go about and what's most appropriate.

52:18 Um, you know, I, I think the work that the KFA and, and others are doing is great in terms of connecting the global community of practice around kelp restoration. I'd like to see that, um, you know, strengthen these local regional networks that we're a part of, um, are growing and strengthening. More people are. Into, into kelp. I was actually, uh, well, max, Dana and I were lucky enough to go to the International Seaweed Symposium, uh, this year in Victoria in May, and it was, uh, it's kind of like the Olympics of seaweed where there's 500 PhDs and in psychology and, and seaweed, uh, that, uh, we're just so impressive and there's so much interest, interesting research, uh, going on in the area so that, that needs to continue to, uh, to develop.

53:02 And I would say, um, you know, the alignment with the government regulations and the regulatory frameworks, um, you know, to, uh, to support the restoration work that is going on in, in the near shore ecosystems and, and around, uh, around Canada. Really, I would say that, uh, we, we could be, uh, doing a bit more to remove some of the challenges facing restoration organizations. Um, on that side of things. And then, and really once we, you know, if we can get alignment on some of the funding and the regulatory piece and, and the community buy-in, then I think the door opens for, uh, really significant success in the coming years.

53:45 I'm a science communicator, right? That's what I do. This is the podcast. It's to inform people. I have a lot of early career researchers. I have a lot of, and scientists and conservationists. I have a lot of people who are activists on here. I have a lot of people who are just interested in knowing what they can do to, to live for a better ocean. That's my, that's my my tagline. Mm-hmm. As a science communicator, and I have a lot of fellow science communicators. What can we do, what do you think we can do to, to build sort of that broader public awareness for these underwater forests and, and the restoration that's so important to keep these forests going? Yeah. Great question. And it's, it's, uh. We have, uh, we've also struggled, I would say, because it's hard to bring people to kelp forests.

54:31 You know, I, um, they're, they're, they're under the water. It's often quite cold, uh, and et cetera, et cetera. So, I mean, one way that, uh, we have done this at Ocean Wise is through our mobile education programs. We have our. Our sea dome, which is, uh, a bit, uh, like an inflatable dome. You can fit about 30 kids inside and there's a 360 degree 4K video that projects on the inside of the dome. And so it's kind of like you're underwater. And, uh, it's been extremely successful, uh, over the last few years, uh, reaching, uh, tens of thousands of, of students across Canada. Um, And so that's one way that we're trying, I think, you know, there's, uh, I recently saw some virtual reality headsets that you can, uh, put on and you dive underneath the water and through the kelp forest.

55:18 And I think that's one of the most immersive, really, really moving ways to go about it. Yeah. Talk about connecting to the ocean, right. Without getting wet. Yeah. Like it's such a, it's it's really Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's really incredible. Um, yeah, Um, So I would say, you know, continue, you know, from, from a science communication standpoint, I think, uh, continuing to bring guests on who can talk about kelp forest and their importance in different ways, I think we need to. Raise awareness around just how important kelp forests are and what they provide. Um, uh, you know, not that they, there's also a, just a wonderful intrinsic value to kelp forests. But, um, you know, from a more, from a kind of an objective standpoint, they provide just so much benefit to, to humanity that, um, it's, it's very much in our best interest, uh, to, to protect and restore.

56:09 And, uh, I would say try and, uh, try and learn more about kelp in your region. You know, if you are near, if you are near the ocean, um, you know, go along the shoreline and see what, uh, type of seaweed or kelp is washed up. You know, it's, it's, uh, sometimes I feel like it's, uh, it's not that well known. People are stepping on it and maybe slipping on it. Uh, sure if they take the wrong step, but, uh, these are really important, uh, species and ecosystems that are usually pretty close by if you're, if you're somewhere near the ocean in Canada, that's amazing. So, you know, are you a diver, snorkeler? Yeah, I do both. Yeah. Okay, perfect. When you, if, if you've gone diving on a, on a kelp forest, uh, what, what's, when you go diving or when you're in there, what's your favorite part of, of, of diving in a kelp forest?

56:58 Like what do you look for or hope to see every time you go diving on a kelp forest? Yeah, it's a really special experience. Um, I would, it's, it is really like stepping into another world. I mean, in a kelp forest, it's a, it's a three dimensional structure. You know, the light shines through and just, you know, the most beautiful way. Um, as long as the visibility is is good. Yeah. And, uh, you know, there's, they're just, the, the abundance of the biodiversity and other, and Marine species inside the kelp forest is, uh, is, is so impressive. You know, it, they're, they're, they're kind of quiet. It's a little bit hypnotic, you know, they're waving back and forth in the water and, uh, it's just a very special experience.

57:39 So, you know, when I'm, when I'm there, I'm just trying to. Take it all in, be in the moment. Um, you know, enjoy the, the rare kind of, uh, time that I get to, to be in the water and among, among the kelp. I know, uh, max and Dana are kind of in there a little bit more, uh, than, than I am. But I'm trying to, to change that. And, uh, I think, I think ultimately they just give me hope, you know? Yeah. I think that's, they're, they're just, they're such a, they're such a positive aspect. Mm-hmm. Um, they're such a po they're, they're, they're a source of positivity in, in the world right now, and it just reminds me of that every time I'm near them. I think it gives such a, a beautiful look of what we don't understand about the ocean.

58:22 I think when, when a lot of people picture the ocean, they picture coral reefs, they picture mm-hmm. Or, or just blue and nothingness, you know, like in a, in a, say, open ocean. When you look at a kelp forest, there's so much to look at. Like from the ground up, you know? Mm-hmm. And not only just the kelp forest, but the fish, like I said, the invertebrates, the, the, the sea stars, the even the sea urchins. You might see a sea otter, you might see a seal or a sea lion, you know, coming through every once in a while. You know, there's all these different aspects of it up and down that, that, that Pacific coast and it's, it just gives you a, a different breadth of what the ocean can be.

59:02 Uh, you know, and it's, it's absolutely gorgeous. I've never gone diving on, on, uh, kelp forests. I look forward to doing it someday. It is on my bucket list because it's one of my favorite exhibits at any aquarium, uh, that I go to. And it's something that, you know, I look forward to. And it, and it provides that, just that connection, like you said, like the hope that you could have a productive ocean. And I think having any way we can, whether you want to get wet and connect or you want to go virtual and connect, I think any way to connect is such an important aspect to understanding, uh. Just the, the biology that's down there, the importance of, of it down there and how people really rely on these, on these habitats to, uh, to survive.

59:44 I just want, I just wanna say thank you so much, uh, for, for coming in and talking about sea forestation. I'd love to have you back on, or anybody else who's part of Sea Forestation back on, or even ocean wise at large. You know, it'd be, it'd be really great to have more people talk and give that, that, you know, audio or visual of what, uh, these areas look like. Um, it's such an, an important aspect to not only Canadian life, but ocean life in general and, and kelp forests are, are our future and they need, they, they were part of our past and they need to be part of our future as well. So, uh, I wanna thank you so much for, for coming on. It's been a, a great experience to meet you and, and hear all about, uh, sea Forest Station. Yeah. Well thank you for having me on And/or. That was, uh, fantastic.

1:00:24 And, uh, you know, if you find yourself out, uh, here in Vancouver in the, in the darker Rainier months, that's when we're. I'm kind of most active in the water. So there's a, there's a possibility there. And, um, yeah, we've got lots of other, uh, uh, really wonderful folks at Ocean Wise. If there's other subjects that we want to explore, um, there's, there's lots of, uh, important work to be done, uh, to improve, uh, ocean Health, and I think we'd be delighted to come back on the show, uh, in the future. So, yeah. Thanks very much. It's been a pleasure. You bet. Thank you, Scott. I appreciate it. Thank you, Scott, for joining us on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. It's great to have you on. I hope it's not the last time I see you. I hope we'll see you many, many times.

1:01:04 We can talk about specific projects, of course, ocean Wise, anybody from Ocean Wise would love to have you on the podcast to talk about the different programs. This is a huge thing for me, like to be able to connect with somebody from a great organization like Ocean Wise is absolutely massive. As a Canadian, as a Marine biologist, as a science communicator, to help disseminate this information to you, I think it's super important and must be done more so hopefully we'll have them back on for more. Let me know what you loved in this interview. Was it the fact that we talked about restoration and the mechanisms of restoration? Was it the fact that we talked about. How important kelp forests are. Was it the fact that we talked about some of the barriers to scaling up a program like this? Let me know what your thoughts on kelp forest. Let me know if you use a product that has kelp in it.

1:01:47 I would love for you to tell me. Let me know in the comments below. If you're watching this on YouTube, if you are listening to this on your favorite podcast app, Spotify, apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, whatever that might be, love to hear from you. If you go to speak up for blue.com/feedback, you can either write a comment or you can leave a voicemail. I'd be happy if you want, just let me know in the voicemail to play that voicemail on the next episode, answer your questions or listen to your comments. I think that would be something that's really great. It's a new program that I'm trying out. I'd love to hear your feedback. It goes directly to me if you don't want it to be shared. No worries. If you want to be shared, that would be great. I could share that as well. Speak up for blue.com/feedback.

1:02:28 If you're watching this on YouTube, you can use that too, or you can use the comments below, but I just want to build that community, get more interaction. Love to talk about the ocean. As you know, I talk about three times a week, probably more than that, behind the scenes, but I really love to do that, so check it out, subscribe, you know, follow whatever you need to do. I love all of you. I love the fact that you wanna learn more about the ocean and I get to be the person to tell you about it. Then I wanna thank Scott and Ocean Wise and Sea Forest Station for coming on the podcast to let us know more about Sea Forest Station. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm your host, and/or Lewin from the True Nord Strong and Free, and for the host of this How to Protect The Ocean Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. Have a great day. I'll talk to you next time, and happy conservation.