Tree-Free Products Are Disrupting Big Industry and Saving Thousands of Trees

0:00 Imagine trying to change an industry that has not shifted in a hundred years. This is exactly what today's guest set out to do. He looked at foam cups, plastic packaging, and tree race products and said, we can do better. And for almost four decades, he has been proving the sustainability is not a trend as a system that can replace the waste we no longer need. We're gonna be talking to the CEO of Emerald ovations. Ralph Culley about all of his evolution in this business and the communication education he provides his clients with on a daily basis. We're gonna talk about that all in today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. Let's start the show.

0:40 Hey everybody. Welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. I'm your host, and/or Lewin, Marine biologist, and. Science communicator. I'm here to let you know what's happening with the ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean by taking action. The How to Protect the Ocean Podcast is part of a podcast network called the Speak Up for Blue Network, where we podcast with purpose. And on today's episode, we're gonna be talking about business for purpose with sustainability. Ralph Van Colley is the CEO of Emerald Eco. And he's here to talk about his evolution of starting this company and growing it at big scales, like we're talking like millions of products in large corporation hands, to be able to not only feel good about the products they use, but also know that it is sustainable.

1:26 And we're gonna be talking about that. Speaking of sustainability of treeless bait or tree free products, we know trees are important, but we know seagrasses are even more important because they can sequester up to 10 times more. Carbon dioxide, then trees, like forests And so forth. And so we need sea grass meadows, but to be able to need sea grass meadows, just like we're gonna be talking about in this episode of communicating how many trees a product can save. We're gonna be talking about the sea grasses and how much they benefit our ocean. What science, conservation and restoration projects are out there on the Seagrass Effect podcast, and we want to launch it, but we need your help. If you want to join the crowdfunding project to help launch this podcast, all you have to do is go to speak up for blue.com/seagrass.

2:11 That's speak up for blue.com/sea grass. It's about time that we talk and educate ourselves about sea rests meadows and their importance to not only us for climate change and sequestering carbon dioxide, but also for cleaning up bays, making sure our coastal communities are biodiverse, and making sure that they protect us from wave energy And so forth. It's gonna be really great. All you have to do is go speak up for blue.com/seagrass to check it out and donate to the campaign when you donate to the campaign. A portion of that donation goes towards restoring a seagrass project that we're gonna be documenting through the podcast. So go to speak up for blue.com/seagrass and help restore a seagrass meadow today.

2:53 Alright, let's get back into it. This is something that I feel like is really important because we talk a lot about businesses that are in the startup phase. This business is well beyond the startup phase and it's in action. It's selling, it's scaling. It's great. And Ralph is on the podcast today to talk about. Not only like the products that he sells and how the company is focused on sustainable tree free compostable alternatives to traditional paper and plastic products. But he is here to talk about the education that he provides on a regular basis, not just to new prospects, right, potential customers, but even the customers that he has now, to let them know how much they are doing for the environment just by buying these alternative products. That's what's great. Imagine being able to say, Hey, just by buying these products, we've saved 8,000 trees.

3:37 That's the level of scale that that we're talking about here, and it's a large corporations. Ralph also talks about how it's difficult to change the behaviors of legacy corporations that are not ready to change just yet. However. He's not going to stop in trying to get them to change. I think having somebody like this, like Ralph on the podcast, to be able to perpetuate this message and to say, Hey, you know what? There are businesses out there that are working at scale that are really changing the world and we don't know about these all the time, and he's there to not only communicate to his customers, but also to communicate to the world what he's trying to do and how important it is for our world to be able to accommodate. This and adapt of these types of products at scale.

4:19 I think that's great. 'cause a lot of the times when we look at things, we look at a lot of new companies that are in fashion or that are in like products such as these. They're all in the startup phase and they're trying to get going and trying to get going. But we're looking at a company that deals with large corporations that are buying at scale. They're buying millions and millions of products, and I think this is something that we need to hear more about. So I was really happy to have Ralph on the podcast. So without further ado, here is the interview with Ralph Manali, CEO, and founder of Emerald e Ovations, talking about a company focused on sustainable tree free and compostable alternatives to traditional paper and plastic products. Enjoy the interview and we'll talk to you after. Hey Ralph, welcome to the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

5:01 Are you ready to talk about all things sustainability and business? Well, thanks for having me here, and/or and absolutely. Ready to roll. All right. I'm looking forward to this. I don't get to have a lot of, uh, business people on, people who own businesses, entrepreneurs who own businesses that are very based in sustainability. And Emerald e uh, eco is a business that is based around sustainability. So I can't wait to dive in, like. Why you started it back when you did in like 1997, how you've grown it, the evolution of the business, all this kind of stuff. I'm looking forward to getting into, but before we do that, Ralph, why don't I just ask you who you are and what you do?

5:44 Okay. Well, um, uh, true blue plastics and paper individual that's been in the business for almost four decades, um, wow. Much of what I've done over the years is. Work to help companies, uh, not only, uh, move forward in their business endeavors, but, uh, looked at how things that we do every day, uh, particularly in the business industries, we're in paper and plastics is like on the top of the charts when we talk about sustainability. So it's been a, it's been a great ride over the last three and a half, four decades. Uh, but mostly what I am most interested in. Is changing an industry that hasn't changed in a hundred years.

6:26 Mm-hmm. Um, and it sounds easy, but it is a challenge. And, uh, fortunately I surround myself with some very intelligent people and, uh, we've done some great things over the last few years. That's awesome. So take me, take me back to 1997 when this vision of like reducing waste and everything started, where were you, uh, where were you at in, in, in life in general and in business and, and how did this, all this vision start? You know, like where did it come from? Well, my first, uh, real job was in operations and I ran food operations for a large enterprise back in the late eighties, into the nineties. Um, I then. Uh, decided to spin off into the supply side.

7:08 I saw opportunities where in the business world, what we were in food service consuming enormous amount of products in disposables. Mm-hmm. When disposables wasn't a bad word back then. Right? Right. Interesting enough, I decided to get into the supply side to see if I can change that, that dynamic. And, um, it didn't happen overnight quite honestly, but in the late nineties I was, uh, spun off one of our business groups, which is in general distribution and supplies mostly. Food service, disposables, packaging materials. All back then, when, if there's a younger audience may or may not remember the days of the foam products.

7:49 Yes. The foam products dominated the world. Yes. What I recognized was that these foam products were a problem, and I realized that back in, back in the nineties and decided to spin off a business group, uh, from Georgia Pacific back then and started what ultimately is what we have today. But it's been a long road. Um, and again, the changes that, uh, have evolved. Quite honestly, it become much more apparent in the last three to four years mm-hmm. Than they have in the last 30 years. Uh, but our objective is to change the consumer habits. Uh, and to do that it takes, um, a lot of education, which we lead with in our business.

8:31 So is is Emerald ovation's a B2B or a B2C type of company? Or a little bit less. Well, we, we, we tr we are a B2B business. Uh, and what we do is we sell our materials, which is the finished goods. Yeah. We make over 370 finished goods in our alternative technology, which is, uh, uh, actually it's fiber material that is utilized to make our finished goods. That technology has evolved over the last 10 years for us personally, Um, So we do sell to large business footprints, and the reason we do that is because, um, we recognize it takes consumption in volume to really move the needle in what we're all fighting for, how to save our planet, not only the oceans, but the forest And so on.

9:23 So, yeah. We spent a lot of time in the big business enterprises and today we have some of the largest corporations utilizing our material. Contrary to what we may hear companies are, uh, certainly, uh, interested in changing their habits, uh, with, with. Materials that aren't performing properly for the environment, and quite honestly, it's the younger generation that's moving that needle. We're seeing that acceleration in the last few years where the decision makers are now in their late twenties, early thirties. Yeah. Who actually are very engaged. What is a highly consumable essential, right? Every time you go out to a takeout place or when you're utilizing stuff at home, whether it's a towel or tissue products, um, these are everyday essentials.

10:10 Uh, but it's going to take continued education in order for us to. Um, make sure the consumer understands. So, large enterprises, we get the biggest impact. We're touching about 1.4 million consumers a day with our products. So certainly, uh, that impact is being realized, uh, with some of the tool sets that we provide our clients. That's amazing. You mentioned, you know, talking about like behavior changes, like it's, it's kind of interesting when you talk B2B, you're talking to corporations, you're probably talking to people who are purchasing your products. One or two people, maybe a team of people that, that are engaged with you, uh, and your sales team to, to engage with those products.

10:52 Does the education have to be to that team that you're selling to, or the entire corporation or the leadership of that corporation? And I'll go on just to, to add to that, how are you being able to, um, sort of penetrate that market with your products compared to, you know, plastics And so forth? That's a great question, and/or, and uh, it really is, and there's probably 10 answers to that question, but, uh, lemme sum it up as best I can. Um, yes, the answer is, uh, we do. Present our platform to what we call C-level, uh, decision makers and companies. Um, they are the individuals who, uh, can break the barriers that are built into the supply chain.

11:36 Today, many legacy companies today have been around for a hundred, a hundred plus years. Yeah. Um. They're not changing their habits, they're still gonna continue using petrochemicals. Mm-hmm. Uh, they're still gonna be using toxins in their towel and tissue materials. It's just part of the business model that they've built, Um, So these decision makers are not, unfortunately, are not those day-to-day, um, purchasing agents, which are important in the equation. Mm-hmm. Um, once they bring in the C levels, uh, they better understand why it's very important to change the habits of what is a very traditional old legacy supply chain.

12:16 Interesting. Yeah. I, I mean, it's gotta be, uh. Frustrating. At the same time as, as innovative. When you start to bring these products to, to people, what is the people who do decide to go with you? What is the reason? Are they they going, is it like a, a price point that they're going for and like they don't really care about the sustainability as long as it works well and everything like that? Because I know some companies like, look, as long as the product is is working and it's good for them and the price is there, then it, it'll work with you and it's just a matter of, you know, your sales magic to kind of get to get them over the hump. Or do they actually care about sustainability? You mentioned like some of the younger decision makers, they actually care about sustainability and they're very engaged in it.

12:57 Like is it a little bit of a balance or is that how it started out where it's just like, price point, it works, let's go with it, And then of course the magic of the sale of the salesperson? Or is it like a little bit of like, no, we're engaged and and, and we wanna see more sustainability because it's part of our vision as a corporation. I don't wanna get too complex in what our business model really does deliver to the clients, but I will give you the highlights, um, because those are very, very good points. Um, you know, we're not just a green product and there are a lot of folks out there that say I'm using a green product. Um, but when they actually challenge that supply chain of what that green product is, where does it come from? What is it made from?

13:37 Where does it go? Uh, they never get a clear answer. Um, it's, it's borderline greenwashing. To many, many, many degrees. Uh, that's something that I've, uh, been very adamant about in our company is our, our business model is not only built on what is the finished product, it's, but where did that product come from? Yeah. Uh, where. Aggregators of the raw material. And because we control the raw materials in these highly renewable fibers that we aggregate across the world, um, in fact, we just built a plant in Arkansas that's generating five tons of miscanthus, which is one of the fiber products we use in our fiber, uh, uh, food service packaging.

14:19 Um, the point is, um. We take it from the inception raw material, we control the entire fabrication of that material to finished goods. And because we do that, we are able to actually measure the impacts that our clients are rewarded with when it comes to how many trees are saved, how much water is saved, how much carbon reduction, because we control the metrics of the materials and that separates us. Clearly across every other kind of green product that's out there. Um, but we're very proud to be the only tree free producer of paper in the USA today.

15:00 Um, we're, we're advancing a technology that, um, is really at a very early stage, uh, but your, your listeners and your whole, um, concept in the oceans plays a, a huge role in this, right? Yeah. I mean, it's a, a direct reflection. There is two largest sequesters of carbon. The ocean is one of 'em. The second is forest. Yes, Um, So we are very, very, uh, in tune to um, why do we cut trees down to make coffee cups? Why do we cut trees down to make toilet tissue And no one can give us an answer Um, So we took it to the next level Um, So we do not cut trees down.

15:42 Our water consumptions in the fibers are measured. Uh, they run, they represent about 12 to 15% of what actually is being used in most other kind of products, particularly resident based products. So we're significantly less than water. Our renewable fibers are harvested sometimes twice a year, unlike trees, which. Need 30 years to grow, uh mm-hmm. With a lot of water. Yeah. Um, cutting those trees down is, uh, represents about 18% of the sequestered carbon on the planet. And, uh, we all know from basic elementary school trees give off oxygen and take carbon.

16:23 Mm-hmm. But there's a lot of other reasons as we get, um, into what we do as a company, we really are consultants in the space. Mm-hmm. Soil erosion is a big issue in this country. Um, you know, we're losing somewhere between 1.4 and 1.5 billion tons of organic soil a year. How does that get replaced? Particularly if you're cutting forest and clearing, uh, you get runoff and, and there's a lot of issues that we we're addressing, uh, as a, as a company that I think messaging. Your types of, uh, listeners and messaging the business world, uh, is necessary.

17:03 And part of that is the education. I love that. And the education is huge. What type, what, like when you present it to, uh, someone who's about to buy from you or, or like a per a perspective client, what type are you talking about? Soil erosion. Are you talking about the importance of trees? Are you talking about how, you know, other, other, uh, suppliers might be using, you know, products made from trees, plastics, And so forth? Is that the type of education that you're, that you're providing, you know, to the, to the, the prospective client? Yes. And in fact we do that every day. Uh, it, it is all part of the reason, uh, in the business world.

17:44 We're talking to c-level decision makers, uh, because they, they understand the magic of being able to not only utilize materials like this that are very innovative, but be able to. Um, you know, uh, be proud of the, uh, results they're getting. Uh, the metric reports that we offer our clients are being used in shareholder letters are being used, uh, to promote their, to their stakeholders across all their business channels. Um, those metrics are important and that is, um, the difference between what we do as a company. Education, uh, is widespread, and we have some very, very robust platforms.

18:26 We have an actual academy, which we have now close to 3000 graduates that are industry graduates. Not a traditional consumer, but folks who are actually making decisions in the corporate world or those in the supply chain that actually sell our materials. Um, that's, that, that is the envi, uh, Emerald Sustainability Academy. Um, that is. Very active. Yeah. Uh, we also have a podcast, which we just did recently. So, um, we are communicating, um, yeah, as best we can in a very loud, noisy world. So it's organizations and podcasts like yours, and/or, that needs to spread the facts of what the differences is in environmentalists.

19:09 Well, and I, I, I completely agree with you. I like how you're constantly providing different ways that people can communicate or people could listen to the communication and the education that you provide, whether it's a podcast, whether it's a newsletter, whether it's an email, uh, whether it's in, you know, business. Pamphlets And so forth. Digital and, and you, you sending it over to, to customers and clients because I mean, that's what is, it's really, uh, a, a, a thing like we, the people need to be educated on the importance, on the urgency to go towards these products and start using these products. And I just love the scale that you're doing it at, uh, with large corporations that would traditionally buy. Sort of the, the, the regular products that we would get that are wasteful and bad for the bad, for the environment, you know, tenfold.

19:52 Right. You know, when you, when you look at this, probably even more Um, So I, I really think that's an interesting thing. When, when did you find that you were really. You know, making a dent in the market, like, 'cause it's gotta be a difficult thing to get in educating people. 'cause people are like, well this is just regular day stuff that we use. Why do we need to do something different? When did you really find that you were making that dent and getting people to listen and understand like, the importance of using products like yours? What's interesting stat is, um, 10 years ago, 3% of the actual decision makers, consumers. Um, uh, represented what we would today say is a tree hugger, right?

20:35 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so you fast forward a decade and it's still hasn't moved the needle that much. Right? Tree huggers are still less than 10%, right? It's about 9%. Um, So we don't need to focus on the tree hugger because they're committed. Right. Of course, when they hear about what we're doing, they're, they're all in. Um, but it's the other 91, 90 2% that needs to be educated and the difference between what they may think is a green product mm-hmm. Versus. What is a revolutionary innovative technology that is radically different? Right. And again, coming at a price points are very comparative. Right? When, where we, we bring in budgets that are, you know, within 99% of current budgets and bring all this value add.

21:22 So, um, it's not about the money, it's about the education. Yeah. And for us to communicate that to, uh, individuals. Uh, why we, uh, uh, point our interest in our con our, our, our energies into the larger footprints is 'cause they make a big difference. Um, you know, we have clients that are saving, you know, 8,000 trees a year. Uh, you know, uh, I mean, you know, these are mul, these are forest right that are being saved. Yeah, absolutely. These are real material differences and as we work in that marketplace, we need to educate those decisions. Those 92%, uh, don't, you know, believe so much in mm-hmm.

22:05 How they make a difference. But that's our job. Our job is to make them believe when they see the difference. And, uh, that's the education. And I love that. Uh, I want to just dive a little deeper into this, 'cause I think this is so fascinating 'cause such an important part of your business. To change people's behavior. You, you know, you mentioned like, yeah, we got the, the tree hug as you're preaching to the choir with them because Yeah. Hey, like, we know what we need to do. We need to protect the environment. We're gonna, we're gonna seek out. You know, businesses that actually are more sustainable, that are not greenwashing And so forth. The 92 other percenters that, that we talk about, a lot of them are just going through life because they have to go through life and they're just going with whatever product is in front of them.

22:47 That's, you know, sort of the status quo kind of thing. Um. What is, is the, what sounds, what you're saying here is like you present them with tangible measurements of numbers of, say, trees that you're saving or, you know, num of, of, of like areas you're saving. Is that, what is that What actually works is like you presenting like by buying these products, if you buy this amount of, say. Paper towels and utensils and, and toilet paper And so forth, you are saving, you know, 8,000 trees. Is that, does that come in with an order? Is that like, those facts is, that's what's, you know, changing their mind or making be like, Hey, this could go into a shareholder newsletter, or we can use this to tell our, our staff and, and you know, sort of our customers overall that this is what we use.

23:35 Is it those numbers that are actually working? Well, there's two things. Um, first I gave you a stat of the last decade of the changes, uh, on those percentages. Yeah. What we are predicting over the next 10 years that we're going to see those decision makers, because it's a younger decision making demographic, uh, we think that's going to triple right, and they don't necessarily have to be tree huggers, but they're going to be. Very, very concerned about what, what their future is for young, younger folks and their grandchildren and children And so on. So we see that stat changing dramatically. The second part of that is, yes, numbers do make a difference, right? Um, uh, and, and we all know that.

24:17 And, uh, part of the algorithms that we built into our system, which took many years and quite a bit of investment, um, uh, really demonstrates. Clear and concisely to these decision makers and these companies, and we got cruise lines, hotels, and, uh, major, you know, financial institutions across the country. Those numbers do make a difference. Yeah, they are. They, they hit home when someone recognizes, and when we do make our presentations, we do give them, um, uh, hypotheticals on their impact reports because we go in as consultants, we actually analyze their footprints, analyze their consumption, analyze the materials they're currently using.

25:00 So when you add it all up, uh, they get an environmental impact report. Who's going to say no to saving seven, 8,000 trees? Right? A hundred percent. And, and, and don't get me wrong, there are a few that do, but yeah, when we get those presentations, uh, we're awarded the business 80% of the time. So, uh, it's interesting, um, it again. There's an old, that old saying, and, and those are the, um, listeners that may, may remember this. There was a great saying back in the seventies and eighties that an educated consumer is our best customer. Yeah. I, I tend to tell my folks, make sure you understand that is a fact.

25:41 The more you educate a customer, the more they're going to recognize the difference between what you are providing versus everything else. I love it. I, I just think it's, it's, uh, I, I completely agree with you. I think it's, it's a fantastic, you know, thought process when you go through, like, do you have a team, like in your marketing department that's just, you know, there to get the latest measurements. Understand the product better, provide that communication, you know, the, the, the podcast, the newsletters, all that information that, you know, making sure the presentations are up to date. Do you have like a team, like do you have scientists on there too, like to, to talk about this? Like where is the information coming from?

26:21 Well, you, you, you, you named about five different parts of our business, right? Yeah, I think so. Okay. Uh, and, and, and thank god I don't have to wear all those hats. Right. But, uh, when it comes to marketing communications, um, you know, I think we have the best team in the business. Not because, um, I'm, I'm saying that I'm right. Of course they are the most educated in a, in a technology that is rather new. Right. And they have a great way of communicating that, uh, and bringing it back down to layman's terms, uh, because, you know, to answer your second part is, you know, do we have scientists? Well, we do r and d every day. Um, right. There is a lot. To what it is we've done over the last 10 to 20 years.

27:04 Right? Uh, uh, evolving from single products to 370. Um, that means we need to understand every part of the makeup of the material. So, uh, we own all the formulations, uh, based on all the r and d and we're continue to do r and d. We're gonna be rolling out some very interesting. Packaging material for consumer packaging, uh, for major brands. Nice. That are very much looking to advance their image, uh, with their packaging, along with their actual product. Unreal. So a natural product. Yeah. Chemical free product. Uh, our new material's gonna be all of that, so they're gonna have highly, uh, compostable materials made from tree free materials.

27:45 So it's, it's interesting. We're constantly evolving so. It's, I love that. I love that. Now, let me ask you this, I, I live in Canada. Uh, is there any way that, that your products make it up to Canada or is it just right now in, in the us I, you know, there may be products finding its way into the Canadian market. I don't know. Uh, we do have some distribution in, in all parts of the country. So in, in that case, they may, may go, but, um, we're always looking, uh, to our neighbors north. Yeah. Yeah. To our neighbor south. Uh, we love you all. And, uh, at the end of the day, it's, it, this is a global, uh, expedition, right? For sure. This is something where, um, if we can change the minds of the consumers, they will change the minds of these legacy players.

28:30 Who, in my mind, I, I, is one of my goals. Yeah. Yeah. To get these legacy players to adjust because we're never gonna be as big as them. Right. And, but if we, if we can get the consumers to change their minds, they'll get these big legacy players to do what we're doing. They have the capabilities. Yeah. They just don't have the, uh. The urge to do it yet, but they will. Yeah. And, and is there consumers that will provide them with that urge? You know, you vote with your wallet a lot of the times, and I think that's really important. On the Canadian front, I think the biggest difference is you just have to have packaging in French and English, and once you're there, you can come, come north. So please consider that. Uh, if you need help, let me know. Uh, but I think that's something that's, that's really important.

29:13 I'd, uh, you know, Ralph, this has been amazing for you to drop by and, and let us know about, about the products. You know, you have. Paper towels, plates, uh, napkins, toilet papers, bowls cut like coffee cups, uh, like other cups, like I even ice cream cups like you get out of, you know, I think Kleenex, everything like tissues, everything. Uh, then it is all zero waste tree free, compostable, and plastic free. I love what you're doing, not only for your company, but also for the planet. And I wanna thank you for continuing to drive this market and continuing to change it. Because we know it's not easy and we know it's, you know, sometimes probably like beating yourself up about it.

29:53 Try, try and get more and more, especially when you talk about some of these legacy companies changing their minds, and I can urge you to continue to do what you do. We will help you in any way possible, um, and, and love to, to have you back on to talk more about any new products that you're coming on or anything new you wanna talk about. Uh, please let us know. We'd love to have you back on and, and thank you for all the work you do. Thank you And/or, and I encourage you to keep your, keep your audience very, very educated on what's going on out there and the new things that are there because you're absolutely right. They change the minds of the legacy players every time they buy something different. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Ralph. Really appreciate it. Great seeing.

30:35 Thank you Ra, for joining us on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. Love what you have been doing for the last nearly four decades and are gonna be doing well into the future. You have a great team surrounding you. You have a great team that's communicating a lot of great things about the products and why it's important to have these products. You have a podcast, which we'll link down in the show notes, and you'll see throughout this intro and outro, you'll probably see the footage of the types of products that they have and the environment that they live in is always great. If you are listening to this and you are a C-level suite person who can make decisions on buying products for your corporation that are sustainable, I highly recommend. You go over to Emerald ovations, give them a call, get in contact, and let them change your corporation's world.

31:18 I think it's really great to be able to do that. So I think companies like this is what we need to talk about more because they're changing the world, and I really appreciate them for doing that. So thank you, Ralph, for joining us. I wanna thank you for listening to us. If you have any questions or comments about this episode, please let me know in the comments below. If you're watching this on YouTube. And if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast app, apple, Spotify, Amazon, whatever that might be, please get in touch with me through two ways. You can go to Instagram and DM me on at how to protect the Ocean that's at How to Protect the Ocean. Or you can go to speak up for blue.com/contact, fill out the form. It goes straight to my personal email. Other than that, I wanna thank you so much, so, so, so much for listening to this episode and all the other episodes that you've listened to.

32:00 Don't forget to subscribe and share these episodes with people that you love. And you want to see change in a beautiful world that we can have sustainable products at scale. I wanna thank you so much for joining us on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. I'm your host Angela, and from the True Nord strong and free. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time and happy conservation.