COP30 Belém: The Hidden Decisions That Could Change the Ocean Forever

0:00 World leaders celebrated the results of COP30, but a closer look reveals that there are gaps that could shape the future of the ocean. In this episode I explained what was left out and how those decisions ripple through marine ecosystems. That's what we're gonna talk about on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. Let's start the show. Hey everybody. Welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, marine biologist and science communicator here to tell you what's happening with the ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean by taking action. Today I am breaking down the major criticisms of COP30 and explaining what they really mean for the ocean.

0:44 We talk a lot about climate. We talk a lot about the people. We're gonna be putting in people 'cause you can't have people without a planet really. But we're gonna be talking about that. We're gonna talk from like, from weak language on fossil fuels to confusing finance rules. And that new two-track system that may bury ocean science, but also may get a lot more done. This summit leaves behind so, so many unanswered questions. We're gonna be talking about that and we're gonna be talking a lot about how specific coastal habitats like seagrasses can really benefit our fight against climate change. 'cause seagrasses are a carbon sink. It takes in CO2 much, much more at a higher rate than like trees and forests.

1:25 And so having sea grasses, mangroves, like kelp forests, all these different types of coastal plant meadows and coastal habitats are gonna be really important. And that's why I wanna launch a seagrass podcast with your help. You can crowdfund that. If you go to speak up for blue.com/seagrass, you can help launch by crowdfunding the Seagrass Effect. It's a podcast that looks at research, science, conservation as well as restoration projects. While you're doing that and sharing that information, not only among just you and everybody else that listens to all these different podcasts, but you also share it among researchers who are kind of disconnected in this whole seagrass around the world. So we want to connect those seagrass researchers and the research, the conservation, the restoration, all sorts of things in the science.

2:08 And you can do that by funding the launch of the podcast by going to speak up for blue.com. Forward slash seagrass. Not only do you help share information among researchers and amongst yourselves, but you also contribute to restoring Seagrass Meadows, which are wonderful. When you restore seagrass meadows, it just makes not only helps fight climate change, but it brings biodiversity up. It stabilizes the local area that you're doing the restoration in. And it brings back water quality, brings back just that stability and it's really great. So speak up for blue.com/seagrass is the place to go to be a part of that launch. But today we're talking COP30 and I'm telling you, every time I do this, I get a little worried. I hear COP30, everybody's making a big deal about it.

2:50 And you know, in the past they've had it in countries where fossil fuel dominated and there's a good and bad to that. The bad is that it's in a fossil fuel country. Some of the governments they actually control the fossil fuels like the oil and gas industry. Others don't control it, but they, a lot of their economy is based on oil and gas, the fossil fuels. And so it kind of becomes a little bad because they're gonna obviously want to continue to use fossil fuels and oil and gas that's all in the Middle East, that's been there in the past and in parts of Asia. It becomes a very difficult aspect to really think about how can these COPs, you know, 28, 29. How could they do really well when it's in country that is based where the focus is on oil and gas.

3:31 Now, a lot of countries are very energy based and fossil fuels is still one of the most dominant energy suppliers or sources that we have. But we need to move away from that. So that's what these COPs are for, these Conventions of Parties to discuss climate change, to use the Paris Agreement as a focus on this and to divest our energy needs away from fossil fuels, which are harmful to the planet and more towards renewable energy. Those were what we hope every time we get into a COP it would do that. This time it's in Belem. I think I'm pronouncing it probably Belem, Brazil. It's a very important area. You have the Amazon Forest, you have a lot of indigenous populations there. A lot of different indigenous populations that have a direct consequence of deforestation, not having a say in their future, getting impacted by mining, by farming practices throughout the Amazon.

4:22 So that's a big problem. And Brazil still has an oil and gas sector, so it's a very interesting place to put the COP30 for this year. And so we're gonna see what happened in this, and I'm gonna tell you it's not the best news. There's some silver linings in there but not the best news. So we're gonna go over those weaknesses. And the big thing was the weakness in fossil fuel commitments. So COP30 did not adopt any kind of clear fossil fuel phase out. They just didn't even include any text around it, which is what we were hoping for. Many of the countries, there's about 80 countries, including Columbia and others who pushed for stronger language and said, Hey, why don't we have this? But the resistance from the producers softened the final decision. Just to let you know, United States didn't even show up, didn't even bring a delegation.

5:05 But there were over 200 fossil fuel lobbyists that showed up to the conference. Two COP30. Imagine that. They did the same thing. The chemical and oil and gas and the fossil fuel lobbyists did the same thing when we talked about the Plastic Treaty. They sent an abundant amount of lobbyists to put in the interest of the oil and gas industry for plastics, oil, and gas, or the fossil fuel industry is very interested in producing plastics. It's 30% of their revenue. Chemical companies and so forth are also very interested in plastic production. And so here, obviously with COP30, we're talking about climate change. Fossil fuels is a huge cause of climate change, and there's a lot of money to be made in oil and gas and other fossil fuels.

5:45 They don't wanna lose that. So they wanna do everything they can to disrupt these sort of meetings and take over the meetings and make sure that their interests are heard. Now, of course, when you have 200 lobbyists, you're not gonna have a lot of people talking about other things like renewables and stuff, and we don't have big lobbyists. I don't know the numbers, but 200 for the fossil fuel industry seems like quite a bit and disruptive quite a bit. So not having the fossil fuel language and divesting away from fossil fuels and no actual commitments. Very disappointing. Really takes away everything that was done at COP30, in my opinion, just having that. Then there's the vague climate finance structure and text. So essentially adaptation finance is supposed to be tripled by 2035, but it's a little far.

6:29 That's. That's far away. Not a little far away, that's far away. The problem is that there's just no clear plan on how the money will be raised or delivered. Who's going to give the money? It used to be where the developing countries that are using fossil fuels will be primarily responsible for providing money to those countries that are affected by climate change, by sea level rise, by increased storm surges and increased storm intensity and so forth. Countries like the US, Middle Eastern countries that have a lot of fossil fuel industry. Canada, a number of other countries we're going to be, have to, you know, put in money to help out these other countries that are affected by the consequence of using a lot of fossil fuels or being producers of a lot of fossil fuels. And so that obviously is a huge problem.

7:10 And it really shows how coastal communities cannot wait for any kind of slow funding because of storms, 'cause of floods, salt water intrusion and fisheries decline that are happening now. They can't wait for 2035 to get this type of money. We have to come up with a better plan. And that's just lack of the United States not being there, lack of other countries not really ready to put in formal language or stronger language to really commit the finance. And maybe it's because of the state of the economy and the world, I don't know. But obviously this is not helping and not having clear commitments to climate change reduction and having vague climate finance language really puts and dates and commitments really puts a dent, a huge dent that takes away everything for COP30.

7:53 Like, why do we even bother having these meetings? So that's a problem there. 59 indicators were adopted, but critics say that the process was rushed to come up with these indicators. And some indicators are difficult for many nations to measure. I'm gonna just read out some of these indicators that I was able to drum up here. It's really interesting. We just have like the top 10, but I won't read all 10 'cause they're kind of long. So there's proportion of population living in areas of high water stress due to climate change or facing increased water scarcity under projected climate impacts. Then there's the share of food and agriculture production that is climate resistant. That's an indicator in national production and the number of countries with operational early warning systems of extreme climate events or related events like flood storms, coastal inundation in place and accessible to vulnerable populations.

8:40 Then there's others, like number of persons or percentage over the population whose livelihoods are supported by adaptation actions. For example, payments for ecosystem based adaptation or employment in climate resilience sectors. A proportion of national and sub-national budget that is allocated to adaption action or is part of the means of implementation and adaption. So there's a bunch of those types of things. 59 indicators. But like I've been part of workshops, like science workshops where we come up with indicators, science indicators to measure conservation, to measure indication of protection plans and making sure something's going well. It's extremely difficult to get everybody to agree. It takes years. It doesn't take one meeting to do this. So obviously they're rushed.

9:20 Now, with that said, there's an argument to be made that these 59 that were proposed could change at the next meeting or in between, and others could be proposed instead. There's lots of research that goes into these types of indicators. I'm sure there are a lot of people who are working on those, which would be a good episode to discuss, but I'm sure that if you put up a plan, just like a marine protected area when you put them up, might be a paper park at first. You want to build on that, but at least you get it designated and you can build on it over time. So that could be one of the reasons why they just decided to rush it. Obviously, something that's not great 'cause good indicators actually matter. So they determine how countries, poor coastal erosion, marine ecosystem health, storm impacts, fisheries vulnerability, and sea level risk.

10:01 In fact, I saw a news piece recently, a video where, I think it was in Alaska where one of the indigenous population new or in populations, their houses were sinking because the frost, like the ground that used to be frozen, the permafrost is now melting. And so their houses are just sinking. You can't have a house that's sinking. They pump out hundreds of gallons a day of water that's coming in and this is where they've been living. This is gonna be an area where they eventually might have to move. And that's very disappointing. And, you know, obviously, very intrusive. It's scary, downright scary for people to live in, that kind of stuff. So that's something that's really dangerous. And then at the end of the ceremonies, they announced a two track system, a new two track system.

10:44 So this is gonna separate. So there's gonna be political meetings that handle high level commitments, and then there's gonna be technical meetings handling implementation, like data and reporting, and these indicators. Now some critics say that the split weakens the accountability and can hide scientific issues, especially ocean issues. Now, let's be honest here. The ocean always takes a backseat in climate talks. You see a lot of forestry talk, but you don't see a lot of seagrass talk, of kelp talk, of mangrove talk, of salt marsh talk. Those are areas in the ocean where we can maximize and scale up the amount of carbon dioxide that is absorbed in these areas.

11:25 That is a huge, huge thing. We need to fix that. I don't know how that's gonna get fixed, but we need to bring more ocean issues to the table and not just focus on land issues. This is a huge problem we see in Climate Week New York, Climate Week Toronto. Ocean takes a back seat. Not enough ocean representative at these places. That can't happen anymore. But when you have this two track system of one, politics, politics, politics talk about nothing, which is what they do. You get scientific indicators and all the technical aspects, which without the politics might actually get worked in without people knowing. So, you know, certain indicators that are used or certain research that's done may not get a high level or overview or may not get a lot of exposure.

12:11 That doesn't mean it's not happening or it doesn't mean it's not going through. And it might take away from any kind of political will. So for instance, we know Donald Trump. When he hears something he doesn't like, he tries to kibosh it right away. What he doesn't know might not hurt him, you know? And same with other countries. What they might not know is pushing forward might not hurt them. So there's that, but that's really bad when we have to think about that though. This process should be done together, should be done with politics, with policy, and as well as the technical teams, as well as the science teams should be working together. But this is not what's happening at this point. So like marine topics often sync to the background when it comes to policy discussions and especially when it becomes separated from science.

12:51 So let's start getting our politicians and our delegates that are going to these meetings to bring up the oceans more. And that's what we can do, is we can actually just bring this together, and make sure our government representatives are talking about the ocean. That's a big, big thing. It's why do this podcast increase ocean literacy? So if you're a government representative, you're listening to this, let's talk more about the ocean, the good parts, the bad parts, what we need to fix it. Every second breath comes from the ocean, and that's because it takes carbon dioxide outta the atmosphere and it returns oxygen, but it can only handle certain amount of carbon dioxide and methane gas and so forth, and greenhouse gases. Alright, one thing that we never talk about at the beginning, and unfortunately, I keep this to the end, unfortunately, I don't know why.

13:31 However, there are gaps in justice inequity. In fact, at one point during the talks, Gavin Newsom was talking at COP30 at the beginning. And there was a protest, an indigenous protest. A number of representatives from the indigenous communities that in the Amazon came in, they wanted to be heard and they were taken out by security. And it just goes to show that people are not being heard. The government delegates that go there are not talking about the right things. And maybe Gavin Newsom didn't know about this protest when it was happening, but I find it interesting. Gavin Newsom, the Governor of California is a big proponent of going to more renewables and divesting from fossil fuels and, doing something about climate change. But at what point does this not become just like life right now?

14:15 You have someone who's trying to do something about climate adaptation and climate change and reduce climate change, and then you have this indigenous population that's like, we're losing our homes, our food is changing, our home is like lost because of a lot of different aspects, including deforestation, weather changing, rivers changing, and so forth. And here we are. We're not being heard. We don't have a voice. And I think that's a real problem. Also, small island states demanded they wanted more secure protections. We didn't really see much coming outta that. And of course, you know, coastal communities like that depend on reefs, mangroves and fisheries. They don't get their voice heard at these COP30s. That is a disgrace. That should not happen. The people who are affected the most should be the people at the forefront talking about what we need to do and why it has to be so important.

14:59 Developing countries could adapt better than other countries that may not have the means or the infrastructure to adapt to climate change. But developing countries that can adapt a little bit more, we don't take it seriously. We don't take climate change serious enough. I'm gonna say that right off the bat. We do not take climate change serious enough. We need as developing countries to understand, to stop debating whether climate change is happening or not, and to understand, take accountability that some of us are causing it more than others, and we need to fix this. We need to help other countries out as a planet, not just helping ourselves. That's something that has to happen and having these gaps in justice and equity at COP30 and any of the COPs is just an absolute disgrace and needs to be changed.

15:40 Now, there is opportunity here. To really bring oceans to the main front. The big thing is, is storytelling. We need to tell the stories of the people, amplify the stories, not just tell the stories. Amplify the stories of the people who are affected most by climate, change from the ocean. And that needs to happen. The oceans continue to warm. The fact that we don't have any commitment on reducing fossil fuel usage. It's absolutely awful. It's going to affect the ocean in a negative way. We're gonna see more bleaching. We're gonna see a higher increase in ocean temperatures, which means devastating storms are gonna continue to rise. We're gonna see sea level is gonna continue to rise. Ocean acidification is going to continue to rise, which is not only gonna affect corals, but it's also gonna affect malice like oysters, mussels.

16:25 This is food that we eat, folks. A lot of people depend on this food, not just for luxury, but also just they actually need it for sustenance. Marine ecosystems that lack funding, they need restoration like seagrass restoration and adaptation, but there's not enough funding for ocean. We need to ensure that there's enough funding for oceans. And then of course, the implementation of all of this will depend on the bodies that often do not communicate their work publicly. So we need to amplify that communication. And this is where science communication comes in. Like we can be the bridge. Talk about science, talk about the ocean. You have platforms. It doesn't matter how big. We all have platforms. For a lot of us that are listening to this, a lot of you that are listening to this podcast want to do science communication or already doing science communication, get part of an advocacy group, amplify others who are telling these stories.

17:10 And make sure we understand that divesting away from fossil fuels is the best way to reduce climate change impacts and climate change. So I think, you know, this is something that, when I look at COP30, I rarely see progress. I see a lot of uncertainty. I see a lot of frustration, but we know the science is actually clear. The ocean is absorbing all this carbon dioxide and all this heat that our climate system just, it cannot, it can't handle it anymore. And if global leaders do not strengthen the commitment soon, the ocean will continue to carry out the heaviest burden. And we are going to see that firsthand as ocean people, people who value the ocean for what it is. So the biggest thing that we need to do is support ocean-based climate solutions in your own communities.

17:53 That is something that's good. Seagrass restoration. Mangrove restoration, salt Marsh, coastal wetlands. These are gonna be extremely important to protect coral reefs, to protect dugongs, to protect all these animals, but also to protect the systems that allow us to get oxygen every second breath. The ocean, just in general. It's gonna be huge. So I think this is gonna be interesting to see how this progresses forward. Obviously there's a lot of work to do and we have to do it from the ground up. 'cause obviously the top down is doing absolutely nothing and I think it's very, very difficult to deal with. I encourage you to continue to follow this episode, this podcast I continue to follow others who are speaking on the policy actions in your own countries.

18:33 Support those leaders. Become those leaders and let's get the ocean back into the climate talks. Let's get climate talks to actually discuss reducing climate change and committing to climate change by putting the right people in place. And there are a lot of people that are in governments right now that do not take this seriously, that are out for greed, out for their billionaire friends. And it's just disgusting. It's not just the us, it's all around the world and we need to change that. But that's what I'm gonna say. All I'm gonna say on COP30, I'd love to hear what you think. Let me know in the comments below. If you're watching this on YouTube, if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast app, Apple, Amazon Music, Spotify, whatever that might be, hit me up on Instagram at how to protect the Ocean.

19:14 It's at How to Protect the Ocean. DM Me. I would love to hear your thoughts and of course, you can go speak up for blue.com/. contact to contact me through my email. Just fill out the form. I wanna thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the True Nords Strong and Free. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time and happy conservation.