Can Bacteria Actually Eat Plastic?

0:00 If you listened to the episode yesterday, we had Anya Brandon, Dr. Anya Brandon, who talked about microfibers. And in the interview, she actually made a joke about the future of having a machine in your apartment that can break down all your plastics and you can reuse the materials for something else. Then she kind of laughed at herself for even thinking that. But it kind of got me thinking. It's like I get a lot of these you know, videos or things like that from friends who are like, hey Andrews, is there such thing as bacteria eating plastic? And can we use this as an innovative innovative way to, you know, clean up our plastic habits and and clean up the plastics to recycle them to something better?

0:40 and it, you know what, I was like, I don't know. Well let's let's look. I know there's times where yes, that's happened, but we don't know at the scale and can we actually run that on a full scale like plants that are actually able to do this, like like you know, warehouses or manufacturing plants that can actually break down bacteria using bacteria eating plastic. Or is there another way that we can do this where we can actually get ahead of this plastic pollution epidemic that we're in? And you know what? We're gonna find that out on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast because this is where you find out all ocean news, new innovative ways of ~ helping protect the ocean. As well as just getting updates on what's happening in the ocean. That's what we do here today. So if you like that kind of information, you're new here, welcome. We've been doing this since twenty thousand fifteen.

1:23 and we'd love for you to join the community. So all you have to do is just follow this podcast on your favorite podcast out that you listen to it right now. and you'll get more information Monday to Friday. ~ and it'll be a lot of fun. We do an interview at the beginning of the week. Sometimes we're at the end of the week. We're gonna switch it to the beginning of the week, and then we're gonna do solo episodes to break down that interview just exactly. what we're doing today. So in that interview yesterday, if you had a chance after this episode, go listen to that interview yesterday. It should be the episode right before this. you know, Anya said, like, said, you know, and and I think it's worth restating kind of like what she claimed here. It's like plastic degrading bacteria research is still it's roughly a decade old, but it still hasn't come close to the meaningful at scale business type that we really need. And and, you know, it's in it's more realistic as a compliment to recycling or wastewater treatment than you know, a cleanup miracle. So like right now, right off the bat, I would say, no, don't consider this our way out.

2:19 It's not even close to what we need right now. And we're gonna break that down as to why in in in in more detail. Now, ~ I asked her, you know, why this is happening and and I said like, are we creating a technology for a problem that like we don't need to solve? Because that's essentially what is is is coming up here. And she compared or like, you know, an overpromised tech fixes to something like the Ocean Cleanup Project. If you were on Ocean Decoded Live on my YouTube, ~ you could see how I talked about the ocean cleanup and how that was a technology that we didn't really need that actually made it worse in the ocean than better. and that like these pitches, you know, for fast fixes for something that really needs to be stopped at the source is is they're just distractions, right?

2:59 It it's just like when a politician when trying to when they're trying to answer a question and they refer to something different just to get out of answering that question because they know people aren't gonna like the question. Right. Now Anya was being pretty modest of of what was actually like the the landscape that we're here, right? and going into what the plastic eating bacteria landscape is like. And so, you know, today we're gonna talk about that. It's actually a a pretty messy one, ~ we talk about the bacteria question and whether it's actually a ready to go kind of thing. So let's go there because I think that's what's really important here. now first thing to to let you know is like the bacterium that started this whole field is called Idianella Sacchianis. Okay, Sacyanis, sorry. we it was discovered breaking down the PET plastics in Japan back in 2016. It was actually peer reviewed, published in published Published paper in science. Now in in 2025, researchers at NRL, UMass Lowell, and the University of Portsmouth engineered an improved version of that what we call PET AS enzyme that made enzymatic PET recycling ~ dramatically cheaper.

4:02 And the there's less acid and base chemical use is down 99%. Running the cost is down 74% and the energy use is down 65%. And their modeled costs like the enzyme recycled PET about a dollar fifty one per kilogram. That's US. ~ and it actually undercuts the the virgin plastic by by about 30 almost 40 cents at a dollar eighty seven per kilogram. So it's cheaper, it's uses less energy, it it the costs are are are cheaper to go down, and of course the chemical use is down 99%, which is all which is all great. and this is like a you know a government and university source. This is incredible as this space gets. The catch is though, ~ and it's the same thing that Anya said, is like this is still just in a development set phase.

4:46 It's not at a commercial scale yet. no firm deployment date has happened so far. and it really depends entirely, you know, someone actually investing to build the first US plant. So like the the it's there, it's not commercialized yet, and it's not as scale work we use, but it's still, you know, it it it there's a possibility for it to happen. Not saying that it'll never happen. There's a possibility for it to happen. Now, you know, I hate to say it on your skepticism as scientists, like we all do, like this is not near where we are. So that makes sense, right? even the best lab breakthrough in this space is still lab only and it's still only happening. So we still have a lot of stuff that that needs to go on.

5:28 Now, there are companies who are trying to do this. They're trying to do use this enzymatic PET recycling. one company is a French company, Carbios or CACBOS. I think is how you pronounce it. they built an entire business around this enzymatic PET recycling at an industrial scale, which makes it probably the best real world test of whether this technology can leave the lab. And and I'll be honest, like it's still early, right? So I I don't want to down this this company because you know it everything is early in this technology. And like this is really the first that I see from from the the the looking around and research that I've been able to do. This is the first company that I've seen that actually. is wants to bring it to that industrial scale. So so let's give it a some some grace in terms of what's happening, of course. but like their flagship in plant in Longue Longueville, Longue la Ville, France is not operational yet.

6:21 The construction was delayed six to nine months due to financial problems or financing problems. And then the cash reserves dropped from 112 million euros in two November 2004 to 72 million euros in June 2025. And they cut about 40% of their workforce in January 2025. So as you can see, the the space is still quite volatile. There's a lot of money involved. You're looking at 122 112 million euros and 72 million euros. That's a lot of money in this space. So the people are serious about this stuff. They've just haven't been able to get the the the ~ industry up and running and and this warehouse up and running and this technology at a scale. Now, according to sources, they've they've pivoted towards Asia.

7:03 a new joint venture with a Chinese PET producer Wang Kei New Materials targeted about 50,000 ton plastic or sorry, 50,000 ton plant in Zhaijiang, in China. the construction is planned for early was planned for early 2026, commissioning targeted for about early 2027, but I can't verify that. So the timeline is still it's moving fast and that can change. but there's really no like a like that like there's no real solidification in this. Like a a shareholder group that was that from Carbios still is raising concerns about the the the deal with China, like the China company, the Chinese company. and Carbios has denied the allegations that there is any kind of concerns to be worried about, and it filed a legal complaint again calling it a destabilization campaign.

7:51 So again, there's still a lot of stuff. There's nothing I can really verify other than the source that I got it from here, but like this is all in motion, right? But the biggest takeaway here is like like even the most promising enzymatic recycling company in the world still can't get one plant running. So we are still not there. It's not to say that it'll happen. It's just the question is real, is like how far are we from this at scale, right? So there are people in interested and it could happen to move it forward, but we're not sure what's gonna happen with this at this point. Right. now the other thing, you know, it that like this plastic eating tech, it's it's it's kind of like it's a little bit controversial, right? Or the other thing that people call plastic eating tech.

8:33 I think that's the difference, right? We have this bacteria that eats plastic, like the PET plastic, but then we have others that they call it back they call it plastic eating, but is it really plastic eating? Right. So I want you to know that the other quote unquote plastic eating tech is chemical recycling. Right. It's called pyrolysis. And it's it's not biological. It's a chemical way of doing it. It's basically breaking down the plastic with extreme heat that goes makes it go back into oil or gas. So you gotta remember that plastic is a petroleum product. So it is made from petroleum products. So it's made from oil and gas. So if you if you heat it, you can get oil from it. How clean that is to really reuse as you know, gas or oil or anything like that, I don't know. But people, you know, the people are are doing this.

9:19 and it's also it's like people when people hear like new plastic recycling technology in the news, that's what people are picturing a lot of the time, right? It's not the bacteria eating thing because that's still not there as we as we talked about, right? ~ now it's it's it's pitched as a solution for plastics, but that can't be mechanically recycled, right? It's just broken down into this this oil and gassed kind of material. So it's not really there. Now an advocacy group named Beyond Plastics. They label this as their like advocacy. So it's like it's not peer-reviewed. This is advocacy. ~ these ~ facilities cur they say these facilities currently handle under 1% of the US plastic waste.

10:00 one example, the Free Point facility in Ohio takes in 170 ~ million pounds of plastic and produces only 26 million pounds of new plastic. So it's not really recycling, it and and the rest becomes a byproduct. So the US EPA actually regulates pyrolysis. As incineration, not recycling. And the EU excludes it from the EU excludes it from its ex as from its recycling definitions outright, largely because most output, you know, becomes fuel to burn and not new plastic. Right. So it's not recycling, it's more of just breaking it down back into its original form, which is less than what it was. And it's a way, it's it's something that could be done. ~ but the same advocacy source clays like multiple pyrolysis pyrolysis facilities have shut down or gone bankrupt.

10:45 While running at a fraction of state of capacity, and that the emissions of these plants can run far higher than making virgin plastic. So again, you're using a high heat to break down this air, this, this, these chemicals, like this this basic chemical product into oil and gas. The rest become byproduct, but there's a lot of chemicals, nasty chemicals in there. Where's all that going? How is it being treated? There's a lot of questions there that I haven't answered in this in this episode, but it's it's kind of goes beyond the scope, but it can be, it can be dangerous, right? ~ but this is, you know, it's not peer-reviewed. This is what advocacy organizations are saying. So I want to make sure that it that I I state that. ~ an industry, you know, disputes this type of framing.

11:25 But when you really look at it, it is melting it down using high heat. So with high heat comes energy use, comes this. Probably not the better than the bacteria eating plastic, but, you know, it is something that, you know, that can that can take away some of the plastic. Right. now the thing is here is we ask, like when people send me these videos, like, hey Andrew, can we actually do this? Is this something that's being done on a regular basis? The thing is, like when we look at the plastic pollution problem that we have in the ocean, this is not even coming close to what we can do. Right. And not saying that it's not getting there. We always have to go through our steps to get there to use the technology to get there. But it's not the biggest thing that we can do right now, right?

12:09 The most scientifically credible path, the enzyme the enzymatic recycling of the bacteria recycling, you know, it might finally reach like a cost that's that's that has like per parity with like the virgin plastic on paper. But the company that's that's the furthest along is still, you know, is is is building at a real scale. It still can't put a get a full like one plant fully running. Right. And the chemical recycling has more facilities announced, but the critics say most of what it comes out of it. the other end isn't just new it's not new plastic at all and plus it could cause more problems for you know climate change not not helping the situation as well right so look we are ~ you know are we creating a technology for a problem we don't need to resolve you know not maybe maybe you know but I think it reinforces the point that hey you know reduction reuse reduce and and and and just like refuse you know, is is really where we get furthest with plastic, you know, that and so we don't make it in the first place.

13:12 and that is still waiting on a fix. That's a that's a big thing. And and when we talk about plastic, there's plastics in many forms. When we talk about the plastics that we all think of, the hard plastic and things like the single-use plastics are the ones that we don't need to use. ~ it's going to come from not only individuals, but really government ~ sort of leadership on this to ban single-use plastics from being used because they are not good for the environment. And the amount of plastics that are getting into the ocean, we can't clean up as much as we use. Like even if we have all the boats along all the rivers in the world, it'll that that'll that'll be almost an impossible feat to even get to. But we need to just stop it at the source.

13:52 We need to stop using single-use plastics. We need to stop getting it. That will reduce a huge amount and that needs government leadership. Yes, we can reduce the use of that single-use plastics. And we're starting to do that. but sometimes they cause other problems. You never know. ~ but the f the fact of the matter is, is that we are we we are in a crisis right now with plastic pollution. It is everywhere. It is in our lungs, it is in the air, it is in the water, it is everywhere. And we need to reduce it quickly, or we are going to start seeing it, the effects. We're already starting to see the effects in our own health, but we're gonna see it for generations and generations on top. So we're gonna talk about plastic all this week, and we're really gonna be focusing in next episode on you know, following an ordinary source of plastic that you wouldn't necessarily think about, and that's microfibers that Anya talked about on your on her interview yesterday.

14:44 We're gonna go from the washing machine all the way into the ocean on tomorrow's episode. So don't miss that episode. So if you want to, if you don't want to miss it, just hit that follow button if you haven't done already. It'll be right in your feed tomorrow morning. But I want to thank you so much. That's the end of this episode. If you have any questions or comments, if you're listening to this on Spotify that allows you to have comments, God, I wish podcasting platforms would allow more comments. ~ please, you know, hit me up with a comment. I'd love to be able to hear what you have to say because this is the beginning of a conversation and I want to hear what you have to say. Do you know more about this this type of product or plastic eating bacteria that you might have some more insights on? Let me know. Hit me up either on Spotify comments or you can ~ hit me up on a DM Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, wherever you see me, or even LinkedIn, actually, probably the best way to get a hold of me.

15:30 But I want to thank you. That's it for today's episode. I want thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. Have a great day. We'll talk to you tomorrow and happy conservation.