Why Ocean Nonprofits Keep Struggling to Raise Money

0:00 Many nonprofit organizations struggle getting funding. And a lot of the times it has to do with who they target and how they communicate to that target audience of donors. This is the How to Protect the Ocean podcast where you get your weekly ocean news update. If you want to stay updated on how to succeed in conserving the ocean, whether you're a scientist, conservationist, or just someone who wants to protect the ocean, don't forget to follow this podcast. Hit that follow button on your favorite podcast app. So you don't miss next week's episodes and every weekday that we publish today's episode. We're going to be talking to James Meisner, who is a nonprofit consultant who helps a lot of nonprofits make sure they succeed and are able to do and accomplish the mission that they are set out to accomplish including ocean conservation nonprofit organizations.

0:53 And this is something that I have been wanting to do for a while because we struggle as ocean conservationists, we struggle to look for funding. There are more organizations than there ever have been to or trying to protect the ocean. And there's not enough funding to go around. So applying for grants doesn't always work for foundations or other donors that put together grants. And the thing is, is when you get a grant, that's great. But if you put all your eggs in one basket and try to get grants, you're not always getting what you want. Or sometimes if you don't get that grant, then you're not successful in being able to accomplish the work that you're doing. And many people have to shut down. We are not in easy times folks. Money is not just coming at the wazoo for many people and we need to be able to target the right people to get those donations.

1:40 So on today's episode, we are going to be talking to James Meisner, who is a nonprofit consultant who's here to give us tips, give you tips on how to succeed in raising money and raising money from specific donors, how to find those donors and also how to communicate to those donors. So you make sure that you are able to accomplish your mission. Here is the interview with James Meisner in joy and I will talk to you after. Hey James, welcome to the how to protect the ocean podcast. Are you ready to talk about all things nonprofit? Andrew, I cannot wait. Let's get rolling. I love it. I love the energy. This is great. This is awesome. One, I love when I got to talk to another fellow podcaster.

2:24 So we're going to talk about your podcast book. We're really going to dive in to nonprofits these days and on this episode because these days we have seen an explosiveness of nonprofits as you know, finding a job in marine conservation has become a lot more difficult. A lot of people are like, you know what? I'm going to start my own thing and I'm going to see where this can go and a lot of times they people want to go the nonprofit route, get donations and so forth. But it's not easy to manage a business like a nonprofit, especially these days. There is not as much funding as there used to be and more competition for that funding for marine conservation work. And so James, you sent me an email and said, hey, you know, would you like to talk about nonprofits?

3:04 At first I was like, I'm not sure if this fits the show, but then I remember so many people that I've interviewed have struggled with like figuring out the business aspect of it. The admin stuff. They just want to do the science. They want to do the conservation part, but it is a business and it's a difficult business. I navigate if you don't know what you're doing. So I was like, you know what, James, this would be great if you come on the podcast and talk about it. So we're going to do all of that. But before we do, James, let's get to know you a little bit more. I can't just let us know who you are and what you do. Yeah, I'm James and I have been in the nonprofit space my entire career. Okay, I started in the humanitarian space and one of the things that was interesting is when you work in the humanitarian space, you realize that the rate of natural disasters and the severity of those disasters.

4:03 Is increasing. Right now you are listening know this not everybody knows it, but I'm preaching to the choir right now and you know, spent so many years. Doing that and I absolutely loved it. There's very few people who love like business development and fundraising and not right. That's I'm one of them and then I left my day job to start a consulting firm. Environmentalism and conservation is one of our verticals because I love it. I love oceans. I love hiking anything outside is kind of right up my my alley. So that that's who I am Andrew.

4:44 I love it. I love it. You know, it's like I think it does take a certain type of person to be able to do the job that you do because you know, you're helping other organizations do great things and I think the value in that is you can help a lot of different organizations which which I love right get to where they want to go so that they can actually scaling your impact just by helping out each and every organization. So so I love that and like so how do you find working like the differences in working with like a humanities type of organization compared to something like in the natural sciences or conservation front? Yeah, that is a great question and I think it gets right to the heart of why you wanted to do this.

5:26 It's very, very, very hard to be a conservation environmental organization right now. And I think there are a few key reasons for that. Number one, there's a lot of money out there still. Okay, give it to nonprofits increased 15% in 2025. Really? It didn't really. However, okay, you have to look at where it increased. Giving is almost a $600 billion industry. Okay, Americans give nearly $600 billion a year. It's astronomically large number last year as things in the political sphere happened the shuttering of USAID Medicare Medicaid kind of changes.

6:10 Yeah. Food stamps happening. People had to make really hard decisions and I saw this in tons of environmental organizations. Am I going to give more to help this group that lost their EPA or National Park or Noah Grant? Or am I going to give to the kid that can't get food down the street? And nine times out of 10, they chose the human. That is the hardest thing in environmental fundraising and in business development. Making the connection the case not oceans for ocean sake, even though you and I would say oceans for ocean sake is great. Okay. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, but donors need to see the connection to humans. They need to see the connection to people because that is what's going to cause them to give to you when there's a crowded landscape out there.

6:56 So making that human connection is the single hardest thing, I think, for an environmental nonprofit right now. Yeah, I see what you mean. And I think a lot of organizations are turning and even science really are turning towards that human factor. We're starting to see scientists plan out their studies with local communities as it would benefit them. So maybe some of the questions that some of the scientists have that are not from a specific area when they go in and they start planning their problems or their studies. They actually plan it with the communities now because they find that more beneficial because it has more of an application, which is great. Like that's what we want. We don't want the parachute science. I'm wondering if that tie in will help fundraise for those organizations.

7:39 I mean, because you're actually putting in like, hey, we're trying to figure out this problem that this local community is having, whether it be fisheries, whether it be sea level rise or climate change or anything regarding the ocean conservation. I wonder if that would probably help is that tie in to the human aspect to get more funding for those projects, which are still equally as important because it might feed an entire village of people compared to, you know, like a one child feeding many children kind of thing. I think we have to start seeing that from a conservation perspective. It's not just ocean for ocean's sake. It's ocean for human's sake because we feel like we fell and you can tell me because you're not in the ocean space as much, but I feel like we fail as conservation as a communicators as a whole to really tie in why we should be protecting the ocean for the humans sake.

8:32 The number one thing that most of this people listen to this are scientists, right? Okay. Yes. I'm going to model how scientists can answer this question because stories are really important. I want to talk to you about North Bay education. North Bay education is an environmental organization. It's a conservation organization based on the shores of the Chesapeake Bay. Okay. So not ocean, but ocean adjacent. It's saltwater. Okay. So it's a very important watershed in the United States. Okay. Full of, you know, marine scientists there. People care about the Chesapeake. You know, we all in the DC region, Baltimore, you know, live here. What they did is they actually built an outdoor school in their conservation area. Okay. So they still are doing all of their conservation.

9:21 They're doing wetland protections. They're doing studies there. Okay. But they bring 400 kids in a week and they, the kids help with the studies. The kids participate and what you know what that did all the kids parents cared about it. The government cared about it. Oh, cause like the kids you're doing the Bay now. This is the Bay. Yeah. We know it needs to be cleaned up, but the kids doing the Bay. Oh my goodness. We're all behind it right now.

10:15 Okay. And it's important to communicate the benefit to people in it. Right. Even if the benefit is intangible. Hey, last time we did a study like this, we discovered XYZ thing would not think is awesome. But hey, we took that XYZ thing and we turned it into this that has massive implications for humans. Okay. Um, bringing that human piece in, um, as unpopular with, you know, scientists as that might be, you know, who love the ocean, ocean sake like we all do. you all do, it's gonna help you raise more money. And that's what you need to keep doing the science. Cause the government is taking that money away, you know, right now. 100%. And you know, it's something that's always in. So you would say probably tying it to that human aspect with the human benefit would be probably the number one thing a nonprofit, like a notion conservation nonprofit can do, right?

11:06 Is to tie that to the nonprofit. To increase funding and to get that side of funding, obviously you have to apply a lot of the times to grants and things like that. In today's world, you know, where like, from a consultant point of view, like, how do you, you know, tell organizations or advise organizations on how to approach fundraising? Is it just like find as many grants as you can and just apply to them all? You know, and it's hopefully one of them, one or two stick or many more. Or do you start saying, hey, you need to be aware in the, like you need to have an awareness campaign. People need to follow you on social media and be like, you know, have a big following so that when the funders go look and like, oh yeah, actually people really like this organization.

11:54 So let's find out where do they begin when they start looking like they started an organization, they have a topic they want it. It's a really good thing. It has a human benefit. Where do they begin? You know, in terms of getting that money so that they can actually do the work that they want to do. Yeah. The answer is it's not linear. There's multiple starting points. Fundraising is almost like a spider's web. A spider does not catch its prey by just one, you know, part of the web. It weaves it all together. So there's a lot of different things that have to happen simultaneously for people to become fundraisable. I like to call it. Right, right. Number one is just what's your organization's story? The human brain is designed to resonate with stories and to really be bad with data and facts.

12:40 Unless they are embedded in a story. Yeah. What is the story that your organization wants to tell? I don't care if you're going after government grants, private foundation grants, major gifts, monthly donors. You have to have a story to tell because the person on the other side is a story motivated person. Okay, so the first thing is just defining your story. Why do you exist? What is your brand story that you're trying to tell? The second is relationships. Okay, people give to other people in this past 18 months with the traditional federal funding structures kind of having been decimated.

13:21 A lot of times you're going after a private foundation. There are some private foundations out there that just care about one issue area. They are ocean foundations. But more often than not, it's a foundation that cares about 10 things. They care about the geographic proximity of the family or the business that started the foundation. They care about environmentalism. They care about at risk youth. They care about anti trafficking. They care about these different things. Okay. So just taking all of the good science that you have and throwing it into a comprehensive, you know, proposal isn't going to get the job done. Build relationships with them. Get to know them. Ask tons of open-ended questions about the things in the world that they are trying to make right or bring about.

14:05 And then that allows you to position your proposal in a way that gives it greater success of landing. In the private funding space, and this has been true before. All the government stuff happened this past year. But in the professional private funding space, they had seen a 10x increase in the number of grant applications they were receiving. That's a lot. This past year, they saw a hundred x increase in the number of private applications they were receiving. Okay. Everybody's state and federal funding kind of dried up, went away, became at risk. And people are just adopting the the pray and spray approach.

14:46 Foundation application. Foundation application. Don't do that. Okay. It's just clogging up the system and your chances of getting that are really narrow. Okay. So find five, six, seven, ten foundations that you think are a great fit for you and go after them. The other thing I would say, and this is harder in the science space, okay, because everybody kind of wants to follow a set process. Major donors, which don't have a set process. It's all about relationships, getting to know them, working on their timeline. They are still the stickiest thing you can do in fundraising. They are the most sustainable thing. Once you get a major donor who cares about your work, they're going to stick with you if you do a good job.

15:26 Forever and ever. Amen. Okay. So I know why people go after foundations because it's big dollars fast. But going after individuals, especially those that live in the areas in and around where you're working, are going to be probably the longer term play. Take longer to get there. So I understand why people get foundations first. I think in terms of differences from these large foundations money and these local individual type money. So when I'm picturing, and I don't have a lot of experience in the nonprofit area, especially in terms of fundraising.

16:09 But I think of a foundation that can give grants anywhere from like 10, 20, 30, 40, 50,000. Some are longer term grants, like 100, 200,000, depending on what you're looking at. But individuals, you know, depending on what locality you're in, that'll probably make a difference. But you're looking at probably per person is probably like maybe 20 bucks, 50 bucks, you know, per person. Oh, no, I'm talking seven bigger gifts. Oh, you're talking about big. I'm talking about big money. Okay, the ocean is like 70% of the world. Okay, guys, don't. Yeah, like don't set your sights on 20 bucks. Like go after the big. Okay. We only live and survive because oceans are healthy. Okay.

16:50 Like tell that story we talked about including people if the oceans grow a wire if the current stop if there's algaly blooms humans suffer and die. Okay. Tell that story. Think of all the cities in the US that are up against coasts. Okay. Boston, New York. Yep. Philly, not so much Baltimore. We have the Bay DC. You have the river that goes to the Bay. Yeah, Jacksonville, Miami. Go around all the ones like all the major metro areas. Yeah, are along the coast. Okay, what do rich people like to do? They like boats. Okay, they like sailboats. Okay, they like to be out there. They like to paddleboard. They like you know, they like all this stuff and they're doing it where you guys are doing your work and your research and your studies.

17:34 Tap into that. Okay, you like being out here. You like taking a kayak ride in the morning and a pot of dolphins comes by. Great. If we're not successful at saving the ocean. No more great morning kayak paddles, you know, with the dolphin. Yeah, yeah, you're gonna be doing in stinky water rather than dolphins and clear water. Yeah, yeah. These in Americans are monumentally generous. Okay. Getting a group of people who care about your work and motivating them with stories and enticing them to help save and protect the things that they love. That's great. And use the foundations for your your rigorous science peer reviewed, you know, right? Yeah, you know, research that you're doing and use the individuals for your general operating dollars, where you can do whatever you need to do to get the job done with it.

18:27 That this is great. And it sounds awesome. But how do you get in the same room as some of these people? Because they're probably in different circles. And many of us, how do you make that initial contact to these individuals who care about the ocean stuff again? Are you kayaking beside them one morning, you know, as they're doing their morning kayaks and be like, Hey, hey, like, hey, do you want to give me some money? Like, how do you make that initial contact? So I think a few different things. Okay, so I love paddleboarding, paddleboarding and kayaking in the ocean. Okay, for sure. And there's places you have to go to get the stuff. Yeah, you don't own your stuff. Before I had kids, I love sailing. Okay, but I didn't own a boat. So I joined a nonprofit that like once you got your right certifications, you could take their boats and sail on the ocean. They would host events on the things that were happening in the ocean, like above and below the seas, like stuff like that.

19:17 Right. Yeah, those places where the people who are enjoying the space already are. And after you can partner together and throw an event and you can, you know, educate their audience on something. This is going to sound absolutely ridiculous. Yacht clubs. Yeah, yacht clubs. Okay, we have served a environmental nonprofit on Nantucket. Okay. They weren't doing tons of ocean work. It was more land stuff and erosion. They partnered with yacht clubs. Okay, because the people love being outside. And they were able to host cocktail parties and events and they got tons of major donors that way. So finding where people are already gathered providing great content that a generalist can understand. Okay, remember, you're not talking to other scientists.

20:06 Yes, let me say it again. You're not talking to other scientists. So like, if you have like 100 feet down, you can go go down 10 feet. Okay, literally, are you gonna share and tell this story and what you're doing and invite them to be part of it. And then if there's something they can actually do if you can take them on some excursion, whether it's a cleaning the shores, whether it's snorkeling, whether it's diving, something that you can do with them where they can actually go see it. Oh, my goodness. And then you say, Hey, Andrew, can you and I go to coffee and we can talk about how you and your family can be part of this really important work that we're doing. Yeah. And it's code for hey, they're gonna ask you for money and they know exactly what you're gonna do and they'll say yes or no. And if they say yes, you're teed up for now. And to be clear, you don't start with seven figures, you start with 2550 100 grand depending on the family and their wealth.

20:59 But if you're finding them at these places where high net worth people go, then you know they have the money to spend on your organization. And when you're telling them the story, it's gotta resonate with them. It's not just protect the ocean for other people to protect the ocean for them as well. Right? Yeah, they have to be the central character in the story, right? Yeah, they have to be I mean, the hero in the story and the problems that you're solving, your organization is solving have to resonate with the problems that these people face in their life. Okay, and then you can talk about how your organization can help them achieve those things. Interesting, interesting.

21:41 Now, going back to even before people decide to do, I probably should have started this off with this, but before even like decided to do a nonprofit, like if if I were to start something and I want to do something for the ocean, how would I decide whether I want to do a for profit or a nonprofit because they're both businesses, they're they're managed differently. And if you get the charitable status with a nonprofit, you get that actual tax receipt or the ability to give a tax receipt, but it comes with a lot more administrative work and things like that. What what decision making goes into play when you're deciding for profit or nonprofit? I think there's a few. Number one, do you have something saleable?

22:23 Okay, is your research is your organization going to create something a good or a service? It could be a good service. It could be either that people will actually pay money for. If the answer to that is no, then you clearly have to go down the nonprofit route. Okay. Right, right. So I think that's kind of decision point number one, is there a good or a service good or service that we can take to market that people will pay us for? Okay, easy enough. But that doesn't mean you have to go to non to for profit, you can have a good or service that you convert to to nonprofit, that's totally fine. Yeah. But if you don't have that, then you're definitely in the nonprofit space. Okay. And if you do have that, you can keep kind of deciding between the two nonprofit, obviously, you're not paying taxes, federal taxes, state taxes on the money that you're bringing in. Okay. But there's no monetary value that is created outside of salaries.

23:20 There's no shareholders in a nonprofit. There's no ownership of a nonprofit. Okay, okay, so if you have a good or service that you think it's going to be the next thing and whatever. Think long and hard about before creating a nonprofit. Okay. The other thing people have to realize about nonprofits is there's a ton of federal regulation around it. You have to submit what's called a 990 form every single year. Yeah, that's publicly available. You have to do an audit every single year, you have to have a board. A for profit doesn't need to have a board if it's small, right and not publicly traded. Okay, you don't have to. So there's a lot of like a hoops you have to jump through down the nonprofit route. But if there's not a way to tangibly make money and you need to go raise it, then kind of the nonprofit is the route for you for sure.

24:10 Most science is in some way kind of connected to nonprofit work universities, academia, unless you're connected to like tech biotech, that kind of stuff. Okay, okay, interesting. So going back to the fundraising, you know, what separates nonprofits that consistently raise money from those that struggle? Yeah, most people don't realize this there are 1.5 million nonprofits in the United States. Right. A lot of nonprofits. That's a lot. That's a lot. Only two probably growing, I assume in growing every year. Okay. Only 2% of them will ever break a million dollars in annual revenue. Just 2%. And only point 4% point four will ever break 10 million in annual revenue. Okay, right. There's a lot of nonprofits out there that are really bad at fundraising.

25:05 Yeah, okay. I can see that. So to not just have fits and starts, you have to be exceptionally committed to every day putting your hand to the tiller and actually making progress on it. And it's not easy. Okay, it's not if it was easy, everybody will be above, you know, a million, everybody will be above 10 million, you have to be out there every day, you cannot, cannot, cannot stop. You cannot stop networking, you can't stop building relationships, you can't start stop storytelling. Hutzpah, I guess, you know, my Jersey roots are coming out. It's like the number one thing, okay, that will separate an organization that consistently fundraises well from one that doesn't that they're just grinding at it every day. Right.

25:50 That's number one. Number two, and we've already talked about this is is your message is your brand is your story. Yeah. And this if you this is true in the for profit space as well. The best product does not win. Right? It's simplest product wins. Mm hmm. Okay. Apple, I'll probably offend the people is not the best computer out there, a Mac, but it's the simplest computer, you know, out there. So it wins and we've got a mass market appeal. Okay. Being very simple and how you communicate. We receive 10,000 marketing messages a day, as humans living in 2026 10,000. If your message is not simple, it will just be put on the wayside. Okay. Yeah. So chutzpah be at it. Simple, simple, simple message. And number three, paint the pier, the clear picture of what you're trying to do in the world.

26:46 It's just like the ocean, right? If it's muddy and gross, no one's gonna want to dive. No one's gonna want to snorkel in it. Okay. If your vision for the world that you're trying to create the work that you're trying to do the organization you're trying to build is muddy and murky. No one's gonna want to jump in that water. Okay. So paint that clear picture and always be inviting people to help you build it. Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting too, because like that's it's great advice. I love the advice because I think this is the stuff that works, especially that first one. And it's getting out there and talking about your organization, talking about what you're doing. So it all envelops everything you've said, but you have to get out there.

27:28 That takes a lot of time and practice, of course, that comes along with with experience. When you have a nonprofit like that, and you're always, you're going out and you're always looking for, you know, donors and you're talking to you about your message to everybody. You still have to do the work while you're doing that. So, you know, like when you have this nonprofit, you have someone, whether it's a you as this as the, the executive director or someone as a growth fundraising specialist, someone has to be out there all the time, but that requires like more than one person. So how big like should the minimum amount be for a nonprofit? Like it shouldn't necessarily you'll have a board, but the core staff, is it just one person? Is it two people? Like the one person would have to be like a really good hustler in terms of getting out there and going out there and then doing the work when they come back.

28:20 So it would probably take longer to grow. But like, what would you recommend if someone if I were to start something right now in the US? What I'm not, I'm not American, I'm Canadian, but like say someone in America comes in and says, hey, like, I want to start a nonprofit. What would you recommend? Like, how many people would you recommend they start off with? And what would their roles be? I don't want to answer Andrew, how many people but I want to posit the idea of like a percentage of your budget. Okay. I find that most nonprofits that are growing usually spend between 18 and 25% of their revenues on their their fundraising marketing communications work. Okay. And that makes sense, right? If for profit does the same thing, you have to invest into your revenue engine. If you don't invest in sales, you don't make any sales. Okay.

29:05 And so as you grow, you can be constantly reinvesting, you know, you grow an extra 20%. You know, you always know that 20% 25% of that's going back in to your fundraising, I find that's the healthier way to grow. When you're small, when you're sub a million dollars, you can only afford a handful of people and you all need to be doing fundraising. Once you get bigger, okay. That's when you start getting a lot of specialty roles, you hire a fundraising director or chief advancement officer, whatever you want to call it. But you kind of stage that journey over time. But the important thing is, okay. Because I imagine there's a lot of listeners out there being like, Yes, I have to get to this number and then I hire somebody and get it off my desk.

29:49 As the CEO or the executive director, you never get it off your desk, you will always be spending between 40 and 60% of your time on fundraising, marketing, business development, that is just the job. So I want you to be prepared for that as you think about your growth journey ahead. So when we're looking at, you know, obviously a nonprofit wants to have a specific impact on what they want to do, right? And so they have a mission, they want to drive that mission, they want to have that impact. How do you scale that impact with and allow fundraising to help you scale that impact? And does that have to go into the message that you're telling the fundraisers?

30:29 Oh, my goodness, absolutely. Okay, if you want to clean up this watershed, yeah, let's just take that as an example. I know people are doing all kinds of different things when do the watershed cleanup, you have to let people know how much it's going to cost. Okay. If they give, let's just use round numbers, a million dollars, and they think it's going to accomplish the watershed cleanup, but you know, it's going to cost $10 million to really do the watershed cleanup. Like you just created this massive misalignment between you and your giver, right? So you have to let them know how much things are actually going to cost as you scale impact now, okay, oceans are really big. And I imagine that a lot of projects, you're going to come back with it's going to take a billion dollars to do this.

31:15 Um, you have to do it in bite sized chunks for people, okay, they don't believe that you can actually do it. They're not going to get to it has to be just audacious enough to whet their appetite for like big bold things, but not so audacious. They're like, I'm not gonna put my money to this because dudes never going to be able to figure it out. Okay, so it needs to like, I always tell people that they overestimate what they think they can do in a year. Okay. And they underestimate what they can do in three years, right? Gotcha. Okay, so if you're trying to do a project, try to create a three to five year horizon on it and it can be big. And you can invite people into that over those, you know, three, four, five years.

31:58 And if you're trying to do your $10 million project in year one, and you've never done it before, chances are it's not going to go so well as people go through their different growth phases, whether it's, you know, startup, whether it's, you know, you've been in it for three to five years, whether it's 1020 years down the road. At what point James is you as a consultant, what what point is it good to have someone like yourself to come in and sort of reassess everything do like a strategic audit or what have you basically hire a consultant to help you through to get to that next phase? Like, when is that time to have somebody? Is it better just to have somebody on retainer? Like, how does it work?

32:38 Yeah, that's a great question, Andrew. And the answer is kind of different for everybody. There are some people that started nonprofit that just intuitively kind of get it. They know how to do the hustle. Okay. And I would say, hey, get to your million million plus point before you think about bringing somebody else in. Okay, just keep doing the good work if it's working. Then I would say as you start to see your revenue line plateau a little bit, it's not going up into the right as much as it was before. I think that's the time to kind of call somebody in to get to get to health check. We provide a service called a strategic fundraising accelerator. It's an eight week kind of pressure test, if you will, to see how you're doing. And we make three to five recommendations to get you to the next level. Okay, I like that for smaller organizations because it's time bound. It's not retainer work.

33:28 But anytime you kind of hit a plateau, you're going to want to do some some kind of deep soul searching to figure out, okay, what got me here isn't going to get me to the next level. So let's let's figure out that is. Then I would say once you get to the like 345 million dollar level, that's when you really start to say, okay, we need to start bringing in different expertise, we need a foundation person, probably a government relations person, you know, depending on what you do, a major gift officer, a mid level gift officer, an annual fund monthly giving, that's when you start to get into retainer space, where you can bring a group like ours in, there's lots of good groups out there, it's not just ours, and say, hey, like, we really need someone to build the machine. For us to get this really going.

34:11 Because that journey from a million dollars is hard, but the next, you know, threshold at 10 million is much harder. And that's where you really need to bring in some expertise. That's amazing. That's amazing. I did catch most of that. I didn't get the last part. But that all James, that was that was awesome. It I really do appreciate as we recorded this, we had some difficulty with with connection, but I do appreciate you coming on the podcast, giving people advice. I think it's something that we don't get a lot as in this, in this sort of space in in in this kind of field of ocean conservation and science. And you know, I really do appreciate you coming on the podcast and kind of giving it to a lot of people giving the advice to a lot of people who are just starting out or who've had an organization for a while, you know, may have gone through a lull and trying to figure out fundraising, maybe just got, you know, comfortable with maybe a little bit of a conversation. And you know, you know, you can get ahold of us, you can get ahold of us, you can get ahold of me on LinkedIn, okay? I'm on LinkedIn every day, I respond to all the messages myself. So follow me on LinkedIn.

35:26 Visit our website, the keypost group.com k i p o s the keypost group.com. You can schedule a meeting right there. And we have a podcast called on the ground where every week we interview a nonprofit leader who's on the ground actually doing the work about their fundraising journey. Learn from them provide some help if we can. And it's a great way to get to see what different peers are doing in different spaces and I would say probably a third of them are environmental or conservation organization. So three ways to get a hold of us LinkedIn website and the podcast. Well, James, I want to thank you so much for joining me on today's episode. It's been a real pleasure. To have you on the podcast. I'll put all your your contact information below so people can get ahold of you. And we really do appreciate what you do not only for the oceans, but for all the nonprofits that you help your your scaling your impact in an immense way. We appreciate what you do. So thank you so much. Awesome. Thanks for having me here.

36:20 Thank you James for joining us on today's episode of the how to protect the ocean podcast. It was great to have you on. I love the fact that we had actual actionable tips to be able to do better for our nonprofit organization. I've had the opportunity for the last few weeks to get on, you know, online with some people talk to them about how to protect the ocean. I've had the opportunity for the last few weeks to get on, you know, online with some people talk to them about their ocean conservation through Pisces oceans, the company that I work for now and as the ocean communications manager. And we know we've talked a lot to organizations who have struggled in finding funding and tapping in because they don't have a lot of resources. Their people are working hard at a lot of tasks and their communication is not as good as they want it to be and it can be better. And so sometimes having that ability to kind of take a step back and have someone else look in and give some tips because you're stuck, not stuck, but you're used to the routines that you're used to. And it makes it easier to have a lot of people working hard on the task.

37:18 So I highly recommend that you give a set of shout out to James if you are interested in improving the efficiency of how you can run your organization and making sure that you get the right donors as well as the people who are doing the work that you are doing. as well. So I highly recommend that you give a shout out to James if you are interested in improving the efficiency of how you can run your organization and making sure that you get the right donors as well as making sure that your communication strategy is on point through that. And of course, if you always want, if you ever want to check out strategy through my company, Pisces oceans, not my company, the company I work for, you can do so. I'll leave the link in the show notes. And also James's links will be in the show notes as well. Look, James, you were amazing. I can't wait to have you back to talk more strategies to build up nonprofit organizations. And if anybody has any questions or comments, please let me know all this. My socials are in the show notes.

38:10 You can just DM me there. And of course, don't forget to follow this episode. If you're new here or you haven't followed it yet, please follow it. It helps us get up the charts so that other people can discover the podcast. And I think that's the biggest thing for me. I don't necessarily want to grow the episode or the podcast a certain way. I really like the community that we have. But I want if people are out there looking for a resource for ocean conservation, I want them to be able to find this podcast because I feel like, you know, there's value in this podcast for them. As you are listening to this, you know, as many times as you do on that week. And of course, don't forget you can always contact me just to say, hey, Andrew, I really love the episode or I love the podcast. I always like to hear that. It boosts my confidence, which really helps me because I work hard on this. And I think that's what the most important thing is. And so the next step is to really make sure that you have a good time. And I hope you guys enjoy it and I'll see you next week.

38:53 I always love to hear people's thoughts, how you listen to the podcast, like what apps you use, also like what you like about it, what you'd like to hear on the podcast in the future. So don't forget to hit me up. I'm always willing to chat with people. And I wanna thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Join me next week when we talk about Forage Fish and we talk to Jack Daly from Oceana, Canada about a new report that they put out on Forage Fish. It's not great, you're gonna wanna hear why and we're gonna wanna hear how we can fix it and we can fix it fast. So thank you so much for joining us. Have a great weekend and happy conservation.