Dec. 25, 2025

Super Kilonova Surprise: Unravelling the Mystery of Cosmic Explosions

Super Kilonova Surprise: Unravelling the Mystery of Cosmic Explosions

In this episode of SpaceTime, we uncover groundbreaking astronomical events and the latest advancements in space exploration.
First Ever Super Kilonova Detected
Astronomers have made a significant discovery with the potential detection of the first ever super kilonova explosion. This extraordinary event, cataloged as AT 2025ULZ, is believed to have been triggered by a double supernova explosion, producing both gravitational waves and electromagnetic radiation. Lead author Manzi Kasliwal from Caltech's Palomar Observatory discusses how this unique phenomenon could reshape our understanding of stellar evolution and the formation of heavy elements in the universe. With only one confirmed kilonova event to date, this new discovery presents an exciting opportunity to explore the complexities of cosmic explosions.
Blue Ghost 2 Spacecraft Shake Test
Firefly Aerospace's Blue Ghost Mission 2 spacecraft has undergone rigorous shake testing at NASA's Environmental Test Laboratory. This critical assessment simulates the intense vibrations and acoustics experienced during launch, ensuring the spacecraft can withstand the harsh conditions of a rocket ascent. JPL engineer Michael Williams explains the importance of these tests in preparing spacecraft for successful missions, as the Blue Ghost 2 aims to deliver multiple payloads to the lunar far side next year.
Shenzhou 20 Capsule Returns Safely
China's Shenzhou 20 spacecraft has successfully completed an unmanned return to Earth after sustaining damage from space debris. Initially intended to bring a crew of Tigernauts back home, mission managers opted for a safe return without the crew due to concerns over a crack in the capsule's viewport. This decision highlights the importance of safety in space missions, while also providing valuable data for future flights.
www.spacetimewithstuartgary.com
✍️ Episode References
Astrophysical Journal Letters
NASA Reports
Nature Communications
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/spacetime-your-guide-to-space-astronomy--2458531/support.
(00:00:00) This is Space Time Series 28, Episode 152 for broadcast on 26 December 2025
(00:00:47) Astronomers detect what could be the first ever super kilonova explosion
(00:15:30) Firefly Aerospace's Blue Ghost 2 spacecraft undergoes shake testing at NASA's JPL
(00:20:10) China's Shenzhou 20 capsule returns safely to Earth after damage from space debris
(00:25:00) New study reveals the benefits of swearing during physical exertion

The Astronomy, Space, Technology & Science News Podcast.

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This is Spacetime Series twenty eight, episode one hundred and

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fifty two, for broadcast on the twenty sixth of December

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twenty twenty five.

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Coming up on space Time, detection of what could be

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the first ever.

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Superkiller nover explosion. The Blue goes to spacecraft, gets all

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shook up, and China's damage shen Zu twenty capsule returns

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safely to Earth. All that and more coming up on space.

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Time Welcome to space Time with Stuart Garry.

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Astronomers have detected what may be the first ever superkiller nova.

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It's thought this deep space event was caused by a

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star exploding in a supernova not once, but twice. The

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historic double explosion reported in the Astrophysical Journal Letters may

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have produced birth gravitational waves and electromagnetic radiation. When the

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most massive stars reach the end of their lives, they

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blow up in spectacular supernova explosions, which then seed the

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universe with heavy elements such as carbon and nickel. In fact,

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the iron in your blood and the calcium in your

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bones is made in stars. But another type of explosion,

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a killinova, occurs with a pair of neutron stars, a

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super dense cause of stars that have already gone supernova

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smashed together forging even heavier elements such as gold and uranium.

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Such heavy elements are among the basic building blocks of

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stars and planets. Now, so far, only one kilan nova

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has been unambiguously confirmed to date, an a historic event

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known as GW one seven zero eight one seven, which

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took place back in twenty seventeen. In that event, two

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neutron stars merge together, sending ripples through space time in

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the form of gravitational waves as well as electromagnetic radiation

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in the form of light waves. That cosmic blast was

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detected in gravitational waves by the National Science Foundation's Ligo

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Laser INTERFROMEEDA Gravitational Wave Observatories in Louisiana and Washington State,

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and by its European counterpart, the Virgo Gravitational Wave Detector

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in Italy, and it was also detected by dozens of

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ground and space based telescopes. Now, Astronomer is a reporting

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evidence of what could be a possible second Killanova event,

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but the case is not yet closed. In fact, the

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situation's much more complex because the candidate Killinova, cataloged as

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at twenty twenty five ULZ is thought to have stemmed

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from a supernova blast that went off hours earlier, ultimately

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obscuring astronomer's view.

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The studies.

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Lead author Mansie Castlewell from Caltex Palamar Observatory, says the

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eruption looked just like the first Killanova in twenty seventeen,

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at least for the first three days, but then it

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started to look more like a supernova.

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She says.

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The evidence suggested this odd ball event may be a

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first of its kind super killinova or a Killinov spurred

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by a supernova. Such an event had been hypothesized, but

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never before seen. Evidence for the possible rarity first came

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on August the eighteenth, when the twin detectors of Ligo

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and Louisiana and Washington, as well as Virgo in Italy,

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picked up a new gravitational waves signal. Within minutes, the

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team that operates the detectors sent an alert to the

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astronomical community letting them know that gravitational waves have been

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registered from what appeared to be a merger between two objects,

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with at least one of them being unusually small. The

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alert included a rough map of the source location. Astronomers

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are continuing to analyze the data, and it's clear that

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at least one of these colliding objects is less massive

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than a typical neutron star. A few hours later this

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vicky transient facility, a survey camera at the Palmer Observatory

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pinpointed a dly fading red object about one point three

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billion light years away, which they then cataloged as at

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twenty twenty five ULZ, and which is thought to have

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originated at the same location as the source of the

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gravitational waves. About a dozen other telescopes quickly set their

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sights on the target to learn more. Those observations confirmed

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that the eruption of light had faded fast and glowed

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in red wavelengths, just as the GW one seven zero

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eight one seven killanover had done eight years earlier. In

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the case of that killing over, the red colors came

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from heavy elements like gold. These atoms have more electron

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energy levels than lighter atoms, so they block out more

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of the blue light that let red.

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Light pass through.

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Then, in the days after the blast at twenty twenty

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five ULZ started to brighten again. It turned blue and

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showed signs of hydrogen. Its spectra all very suggestive of

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a supernova, not a killing over, more specifically a stripped

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envelope call collapse super and ova. Thing is, supernervae from

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distant galaxies aren't generally expected to generate enough gravitational waves

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to be detectable by the Lago and Virgo observatories, whereas

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killer novae are, and this led some astronomers to conclude

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that eight twenty twenty five eul Z was triggered by

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a typical supernova and not in fact related to the

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gravitational wave signal. Casswalls says several clues tipped her off

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that something unusual was going on. Although at twenty twenty

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five ul Z didn't resemble a classic killinova, it also

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did not look like an average supernova. Additionally, the Lago

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Virgo gravitational wave data had revealed that at least one

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of the neutron stars in this merger was less massive

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than our Sun, and that's a hint that one or

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two small neutron stars may have merged to produce a killinova.

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Bit of background.

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Now, neutron stars are left over remains of massive stars

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that explode US type to supernovae. Stars go through their

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lives fusing progressively heavier and heavier elements hygi gender helium,

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helium to carbon and oxygen, and eventually all the way

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to iron. However, no matter how massive a star is,

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it can't fuse iron into heavier elements, and without the

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outward push of nuclear energy keeping the star imbalance, it

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collapses inwards under its own gravity in the process, exploding

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in the tremendous blast called the core collapse or type

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two supernova. The super dense remnants that are left the

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crush core of the original star is called a neutron star.

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They're the densest objects in the universe other than black holes.

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In fact, just a t spoon of neutron star material

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would weigh billions of tons. Neutron stars are thought to

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average around twenty five kilometers wide and with masses ranging

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from one point two to around three times that of

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our Sun.

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Now.

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Some theorists have proposed ways in which neutron stars could

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be even smaller, with even less mass than the Sun,

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but none of these have been observed so far. The

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theorists have inverked two possible scenarios to explain how a

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neutron star could be that small. One hypothesis involves a

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rapidly spinning star going supernova and then splitting into two

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tiny subsolar neutron stars in a process called fission. In

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the second scenario, known as fragmentation, the rapidly spinning star

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again goes super and Ova, but this time a disk

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of material forms around the collapsing star, and this lumpy

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disc material then coalesces into a tiny neutron star in

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a manner very similar to how planets form. With Lago

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and Virgo having now detected at least one subsolar neutron star,

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it's possible, according to theories proposed by co author Brian

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Metzga from Columbia University, that two newly fort neutron stars

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could have spiraled together, merged, and erupted into a Kilanova,

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which then sent gravitational waves ripping through the cosmos. As

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the Killanov churned out heavy metals, it would have initially

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glowed in red as seen by Vicki and other telescopes,

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and the expanding debris from this initial supernova blast would

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have obscured the astronomy view of the hidden killin over.

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In other words, super and Ova may have given birth

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to twin baby neutron stars that then merge to make

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the killin ov The only way theorists have come up

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with a birth subsular neutron star would be joined the

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collapse of a very rapidly spinning star. Metzkus says if

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these forbidden stars pair up and merge by emitting gravitational waves,

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it's possible that such an event would be accompanied by

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a supernova rather than be seen as a bear killin' over.

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But while this theory is tantalizing and interesting to consider

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the author's stress, there's still not enough evidence to make

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any firm claims. So the only way to really test

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this super killin'over theory is to find more of them.

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This is space time still to come. The blue Ghost

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to spacecraft gets all shook up, and China's damaged Shenzu

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twenty capsule returns to Earth empty.

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All that and more still to come on space time.

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One of the most important tests that spacecraft goes through

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prior to its launch is a good shake, rattle and

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roll passing. The riggers of this test helps confirm whether

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spacecraft will survive the violence of a rocket launch. The

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eight and a half minutes it takes spacecraft to fly

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from the launch pad into orbit involves brutal shaking and

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astonishingly loud acoustics, so test facilities on the ground need

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to be able to accurately mimic those conditions in order

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to ensure mission hardware can't survive the real ordeal. And

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that's where a facility like NASA's Environmental Test Laboratory at

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its ship proportion Laboratory in Passing to California comes in.

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Dozens of spacecraft have gone there where it's subjected to

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powerful jants, extended rattling, high descibel blasts, the sound and

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temperatures arranging from frigid to scorching. The latest to get

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this treatment our Firefly Aerospace's Blue Ghost Mission two vehicles,

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which is slated to launch the lunar Farcide next year.

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First built back in the nineteen sixties and then modernized

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over several years, the Environmental Test Laboratory has prepared every

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NASA spacecraft built or assembled at JPL for the rigors

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of space, from the Ranger spacecraft back at the dawn

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of the space age, to the Mass Perseverance Rover which

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is currently on the surface of the Red Planet, and

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the Europa Clipper mission, which is currently on its way

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to the Jovian System, and that legacy is also supporting

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industry efforts to return to the Moon as part of

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NASA's Commercial Lunar Payload Services Initiative and its Artemis campaign,

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which will bring astronauts back to the lunar surface in

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the next few years. In recent months, a full scale

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model of fireflies Blue Ghost Mission two spacecraft was put

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through its paces in the Labs Vibration and Acoustic Testing facilities.

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Lessons learned with this structural qualification unit will be applied

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to upcoming testing of the actual spacecraft that will fly

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to the Moon next year. JPL Environmental Test Laboratory Engineer

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Michael william says there's a lot of knowledge gained over

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the years, passed down from one generation of JPL engineers

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to the next, and that's all brought to bear to

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support today's missions. The Environmental Test Laboratory team led environmental

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testing for Fireflyer's Blue Ghost Mission ie lander back in

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twenty twenty four, and they were able to see the

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spacecraft achieve a soft moon landing in March. Fireflis next

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Commercial Lunar Payload Services Initiative. Delivery involves a dual spacecraft

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configuration carrying modible international payloads, as well as the company's

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own Elightra dark orbital vehicle. Stacked below the Blue Ghost

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lunar lander. Standing more than seven meters high, the full

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stack is more than three times as tall as the

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mission Ie lander. Over several months, a structural qualification model

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of the full Stack was clamped to a shaker table

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inside a clean room at JPL and repeatedly rattled in

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three directions while hundred of sensors monitor its rapid movement. Then,

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inside a separate acoustic testing chamber, giant horns blast that

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add it from openings built inside the rooms. Forty one

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centiment of thick can't create walls. These horns use compressed

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nitrogen gas to pummel the spacecraft with up to one

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hundred and fifty three decibels of noise that's light enough

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to cause permanent hearing loss in a human. Each type

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of test to JPL involves several increasingly intenselterations between rounds.

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Jpo's dynamics environment experts analyze the data to compare what

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the spacecraft experienced to computer model predictions. Sometimes that a

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screpancy leads to hardware modifications. And sometimes it's simply a

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tweak to a computer model. Of course, engineers and technicians

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are careful to push the hardware to its limits, but

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not beyond. Williams says you can either undertest or overtest,

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and both are bad. If you overtest, you can break

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the hardware. If you under test the hardware can end

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up breaking the launch vehicle. So it's a fine line.

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The problem is there are some tests you simply can't

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do on structural qualification models since the model itself isn't

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launching to the moon. Firefly's recent environmental test laboratory visit

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didn't include several types of trials that are generally completed

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only for flight hardware. A launch pad bound spacecraft will

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also undergo electromagnetic testing in order to ensure that signals

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from its electronic standard to fee with each other or

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with ground systems, and what's probably the best known environmental

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test flight bound hardware is baked or chilled at extreme

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temperatures in a thermal vacuum chamber. The modible thermal vacuum

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chamber facilities at JPL include two large historic space simulators

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built within NASA's first few years of existence. One chamber

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that's almost three meters in diameter and another that's almost

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eight meters across. Still, the completion of environmental test Laboratory

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testing on Firefly's structural qualification model helps prove the eventual

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operational spacecraft will survive its ride out of Earth's atmosphere.

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Aboard SpaceX's Falcon.

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Nine rocket, Fireflies BLUEGOS two mission team are out turning

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their focus to completing the assembly and testing of the

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actual flight hardware for launch. Once at the Moon, the

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Blue Ghost Lander will touch down on the far side,

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delivering its payloads to the lunar surface. These include Lucy Knight,

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a radio telescope that's part of a joint effort by NASA,

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the US Department of Energy, and the University of California, Berkeley.

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There's also a payload developed by JPL called User Terminal,

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which will test a compact, low cost s band radio

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communication system which could enable future far side missions to

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talk with each other and to relate orbiters. Meanwhile, Fireflies

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are lightra dark orbital vehicle will have deployed into lunar

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orbit the European Space Agency's Lunar pathfind their communications satellite.

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Both Bluegos two mission vehicles will remain in orbit around

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the Moon acting as relay satellites, sending data from the

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lunar farside back to Earth. And it's all possible thanks

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to testing at the environment Tesla Borro this report.

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The mission of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory is to explore

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space in pursuit of scientific discoveries that benefit humanity. To

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fulfill this mission, tests performed at JPL's Environmental Test Laboratory

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ensure spacecraft can survive the rigors at launch and operate

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in the extreme environments of space. Every JPL spacecraft is

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tested in the Environmental Test Laboratory. Vibration testing simulates the

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mechanical vibrations experienced during launch. In order to have a

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successful mission, JPL spacecraft must first survive the ride to space.

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The reverberant chamber simulates the acoustic noises and sound waves

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generated from launch. Acoustic testing is particularly stressing to large

261
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surfaces such as spacecraft bodies and antennas. Shock testing simulates

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the shock waves that occur during some operation events from

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launch and throughout the mission. The tunable shock beam provides

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a reliable and repeatable method for simulating these highly energetic

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and instantaneous conditions. The spin balance machine measures mass properties

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00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:20.240
for accurate guidance and control of spacecraft as they navigate

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through space, enter orbits around a planet, and land on

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the surface of Mars. Static load testing simulates the intense

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structural loads experienced during launch and landing. Instrumentation services are

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provided for all environmental testing to monitor the hardware under

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test and record and process the critical test data. Test

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method consultation is provided to all JPL flight programs to

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help plan and prepare for their testing needs. Thermal vacuum

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chambers can simulate the extreme temperatures and vacuum of space

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and of other planets the spacecraft is orbiting Earth, landing

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on Mars, or exploring the outer planets of our Solar System.

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Thermal vacuum chambers of different sizes and capabilities are available

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to meet all the different environments and testing needs of

279
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JPL missions. The twenty five foot Space Simulator is the

280
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largest thermal vacuum chamber at JPL. Built in nineteen sixty one,

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the chamber is twenty five feet in diameter and over

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eighty feet tall. Using high powered lamps and mirrors, the

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twenty five foot Space simulator can simulate a uniform solar

284
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beam with an intensity of up to two suns from

285
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Voyager to Cassini to Perseverance and the Mars Helicopter. The

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00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:43.799
twenty five foot space simulator provides the precise environments to

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test and certify JPL spacecraft for their mission in the

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quest for scientific discovery under the extreme conditions of space

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and other planets. Environmental testing is essential to every JPL mission.

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This is space time still to come. China's damage Shenzu

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twenty spacecraft returned safely to Earth empty and later in

292
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:19.599
the science report, a new study claims profanities aren't just fun,

293
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they may actually be a secret superpower. All that and

294
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more still to come on space time. After being rejected

295
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for its planned crew returned mission to Earth following damage

296
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by space debris, China's Shenzu twenty spacecraft has undertaking a

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successful unmanned return to Earth, landing safe and sound in

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the inner Mongolian Desert. The spacecraft was slated to carry

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three Tigernaughts back to Earth last month following their six

300
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month stay aboard Aijing's Tiangong space station, but as they

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were preparing their craft, the Shenzi twenty crews spotted damage

302
00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:09.960
to the capsule's viewport, describing it as a triangular paint

303
00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:13.440
like mark. They then proceeded to photograph the damage from

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00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:17.359
mudible angles and under different lighting conditions. At the same time,

305
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cameras on the space station's robotic arm took supplemental external images. Eventually,

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mission managers identified the floor as a penetrating crack, something

307
00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:31.960
most likely space debris hit the spacecraft hard that would

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00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:34.200
be responsibles, thought to have been just a millimeter or

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00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:37.799
so in size, but traveling at very high speed. Ground

310
00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:42.000
teams then conducted simulation tests and commissioned two research institutes

311
00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:45.680
to perform their own wind tunnel testing for independent verification.

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The findings all suggest that in the worst case scenario,

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the cracks could spread, causing the outer paint to detach,

314
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which then could lead to the failure of the inner

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00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:59.440
pressure ceiling glass. That would mean cabin depressurization and the

316
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ingress of high speed super hot gases, killing the crew.

317
00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:06.720
Mission managers decided it was simply too dangerous to send

318
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:10.119
the crew back to Worth aboard the spacecraft. Eventually, they

319
00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:13.599
instructed the returning crew to instead use the newly arrived

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Chanzu twenty one spacecraft. The Shenzu twenty one had docked

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00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:21.359
just days earlier, carrying a replacement crew. Of course, it

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00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:24.440
was a risky decision because it meant that Shenzu twenty

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00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:27.039
one crew were now without their own escape system in

324
00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:30.079
the event of an emergency abought the space station. The

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00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:33.799
good news is China had a spare capsule and rocket available.

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They launched the Shenzu twenty two spacecraft days later, providing

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a new return vehicle for the orbiting crew, and it

328
00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:44.759
wasn't a total loss. The Shenzu twenty un manned return

329
00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:48.200
mission has provided lots of meaning for real ward experimental data,

330
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:52.680
which will be applied to subsequent flights this space time

331
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:11.240
and time that to take another brief look at some

332
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:13.519
of the other stories making news and science this week

333
00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:17.000
with a science report. There are new warnings today that

334
00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:20.920
dingy fever is increasing, claiming lives on Australia's doorstep, and

335
00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:24.640
that Australian outbreaks are often traced to travelers returning home

336
00:21:24.680 --> 00:21:28.319
from popular holiday spots in Asia are reporting. The general

337
00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:32.079
Nature Communications warns that the problems expected to get worse,

338
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and so Australian researchers are now rolling out an early

339
00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:39.000
warning system to help detect outbreaks in Southeast Asian nations.

340
00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:43.440
Dingy fever affects some four hundred million people globally each year,

341
00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:48.480
and it's expanding across tropical and subtropical regions. Being able

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to predict DNGY outbreaks weeks or even months in advance

343
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will save lives, the studies authors say. New computer models

344
00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:58.920
and early warning frontline public health teams are now being

345
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rolled out across selecttion regions of Vietnam's Mekon Delta. This

346
00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:05.960
will be one of the first large scale early warning

347
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:10.119
systems to be trialed in the real world, and it's

348
00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:13.519
not the early mescado borne disease medical authorities are worried about.

349
00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:16.839
There's a fresh warning today about an increased risk of

350
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catching ross river virus as temperatures increase across Australia. A

351
00:22:21.559 --> 00:22:24.160
report in the Australian New Zealand Journal of Public Health,

352
00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:26.960
which is around three thousand cases of the mosquito borne

353
00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:30.839
disease and now being reported in Australia each year. Ross

354
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River virus causes a rash, fever and joint pain, which

355
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in some cases can lead to chronic symptoms. Australian researchers

356
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:41.880
of analyzed thirty studies investigating the impact of temperature on

357
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:45.519
Ross River virus infections, as well as on Barma forest virus.

358
00:22:46.119 --> 00:22:49.519
They say higher maximum temperatures were linked to higher Ross

359
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:53.359
River risk for most of coastal Australia, although some studies

360
00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:56.799
found minimum temperatures appear to increase infection risk in Darwin

361
00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:00.960
and some inland regions of South Australia, Victoria in Queensland,

362
00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:06.160
but research on inland Australia remains limited. The best way

363
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:09.319
to avoid infection is to keep covered when the squitas

364
00:23:09.319 --> 00:23:14.359
are about, especially at dawn and dusk. A new study

365
00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:17.640
claims profanities aren't just fun. There may be a secret

366
00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:22.319
superpower boosting your strength and staying power. The findings, reported

367
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:25.359
in the journal American Psychologist, are based on research asking

368
00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:27.640
one hundred ninety two people to either turn the air

369
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:31.039
blue or say something neutral every two seconds while doing

370
00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:34.440
push ups, and they found that foulmouth participants did more

371
00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:37.519
push ups for longer than the others. The authors think

372
00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:41.240
it maybe because swearring helps you overcome inhibitions, pushing you

373
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harder in tests of strength and endurance. Debate on the

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benefits of drinking water fluoridation has been raised again in

375
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the United States, and that means people in Australia are

376
00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:55.880
also taking notice. Fluoridation's long being heralded as a public

377
00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:59.400
health triumph, but some US counties and even a few

378
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:04.039
entire staff have now switched off their fluoridation equipment skeptics.

379
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:07.359
Timendum says he's said to see such a backward step

380
00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:08.079
being taken.

381
00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:10.480
It's such a sad situation whereas all these sort of

382
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:13.880
established medical practices which have been proving to be highly

383
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:16.720
effective are being wound back just because of some pseudo

384
00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:19.799
scientific claims and things. It's now fluor rite fluoride has

385
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:22.480
been around for ages. In Australia, it's been around since

386
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:25.559
nineteen fifty three, so that was in Tasmania actually, as

387
00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:27.960
in America, it's been around eighty years or so, and

388
00:24:28.039 --> 00:24:31.359
it's been thoroughly proved to be effective in reducing two

389
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:33.920
decay and that sort of thing, especially amongst the young people,

390
00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:37.079
and that has a major financial, sort of a health

391
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:40.559
benefit down the track. And yet nonetheless this practice of

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00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:43.920
local councils, et cetera adding fluoride to the drinking water

393
00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:45.480
has been under assault.

394
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:47.359
What are the main arguments against it?

395
00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:51.039
The major issue that excessive fluoride will actually damage your teeth.

396
00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:53.160
To atual you scrape away the enamel surface and things,

397
00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:54.559
you need a hell of a lot of flu rideing

398
00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:56.799
water to do that. It does have effect, you need

399
00:24:56.920 --> 00:24:58.880
a lot more flu ride than you're getting, which is

400
00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:01.440
basic dose is one granpar leader and the same thing

401
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:03.799
with a study and you put it in quotes to

402
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:07.279
show that supposedly kids with fluoride in the water drinking

403
00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:10.160
water have a lower IQ. The reports are sort of

404
00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:12.599
very dodgy on various grounds. One is that it's sort

405
00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:15.359
of in places where the water quality is variable a

406
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:17.880
small number of people, and even the authors that have

407
00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:19.920
they always do need more research and they can't have

408
00:25:19.960 --> 00:25:23.480
a firm conclusion. But the experience over eighty years shows

409
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:26.519
that fluoride has a major benefit. The problems is for

410
00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:30.039
some local councils and some governments and things of state governments,

411
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:32.359
whether it's in the USA or in Australia, whatever, is

412
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:35.880
that they're being lobbied by anti fluoride groups, which are

413
00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:38.440
the same people buy large as the anti vaccination people,

414
00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:41.519
but also su spurious claims allied to the fact that

415
00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:44.119
it does actually cost money to put the fluoride in

416
00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:46.680
the water. Where it's necessary to put it in the water.

417
00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:48.279
There's a lot of natural water which has the high

418
00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:50.200
levels of flu right, you don't need to have fluoride

419
00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:52.519
to the water, so they're already. So yeah, it's a

420
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.200
very sad situation. Queensland in Australia has the lowest level

421
00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:58.359
of fluoridation in Australia and it's getting worse.

422
00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:00.880
And what are we finding with people that did not

423
00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:01.680
have fluoridation.

424
00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:03.880
You start off with the good side is that fluorid's

425
00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:07.839
been credited with massive reductions in tooth decay, and then

426
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:10.160
the opposite happens when you take away the fluoride that

427
00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:12.240
pretty quickly, like you're talking with in a matter of

428
00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:16.519
about five years or the incidence of tooth decay rapidly increases.

429
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:19.119
There was a thing in Ontario. They voted to stuff

430
00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:22.880
fluoridation in twenty thirteen. They voted on it, which is unusual,

431
00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:25.759
not in just the council. Less than six years later,

432
00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:29.759
the County Health Agency reported that old screenings at schools

433
00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:32.319
were showing that the percentage of kids with decay or

434
00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:35.640
requiring urgent kret increased by fifty one percent. So in

435
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:38.720
other words, you've got kids needing urgent dental requirements and

436
00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:42.279
those who didn't require any care decreased by forty three percent.

437
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.839
The incidents of the dangers of not having fluoride are obvious.

438
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:48.640
It's fairly immediate, and it was clear, and yet you

439
00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:52.599
still have. It was first put in Sydney in nineteen

440
00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:55.200
sixty eight and the fluoride rate at least a few

441
00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:58.119
years ago. Had a look at a map from twenty seventeen,

442
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:01.839
the fluoridation rate was nineteen three percent in New Southwell

443
00:27:01.880 --> 00:27:04.920
one hundred percent round camera, but seventy six percent then

444
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:08.440
was Latin queenslay member is getting lower. So in Australia

445
00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:11.440
it's been going largely for fifty years or so. It's

446
00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:12.599
proved worthwhile.

447
00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:31.640
That's the skeptics timendum, and this is Spacetime, and.

448
00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:33.000
That's the show for now.

449
00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:36.920
Space Time is available every Monday, Wednesday and Friday through

450
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:42.039
bytes dot com, SoundCloud, YouTube, your favorite podcast download provider,

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You've been listening to space Time with Stuart Gary.

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This has been another quality podcast production from bytes dot com.