Abducidos, en la puerta de otros mundos

0:06 In fact, hello everyone how it is there. My name is Juan Jesús Vallejo, his journalist, writer and director of the Night of Mystery program on Caracol Radio. On November 5th, a group of woodcutters from the State of Arizona, leaving their jobs and returning home, suddenly saw an almost blinding light. One of the lumberjacks got out of the Travis Walton truck, and when he approached that light, he realized that he was in front of a flying saucer what appeared a ship from another world. Suddenly, from this ship came a huge ray of blue light and from there, Travis Walton lost consciousness.

0:56 Five days later, his companions fled to Travis Walton and told him that he had been kidnapped by beings from another world. The amazing thing about this story is that both the six loggers who went with Trabi Walton and himself all passed the polygraph in a satisfactory way, something that is impossible, unless the facts were true. This is the most important case of abdution in history, but it is not the only one, much less. There are thousands of people who claim to have been abducted by extraterrestrial ships. But if you want to know about this much more, don' t lose. The last night podcast of mystery in each cabbage radio abducted at the door of other worlds mystery night Juan Jesús Vallejo, November 5th of the year nineteen hundred and seventy- five, a group of loggers came out from Sir Graves National Park. It was a normal day. It was a group of seven people in a van after a day' s work, they kept their axes and others and went home.

2:34 That night, however, none of the seven will ever forget her when they were on a lonely road to their homes. I repeat, they suddenly saw a great luminosity in the middle of the forest. The first thing they thought was maybe it was a fire. They accelerated to get to the exact point of that great luminosity and, before their surprise, what they gave to about thirty meters of height was a metal ship shaped like a disk. One of the seven, the most curious one, Travis Walton, got out of the van to get close to the object so he could see it better.

3:23 However, at the bewildered glance of his other six companions who were in the van. That object went down, began to buzz, and suddenly a column of blue light came out of it that struck Travis Walton. They saw Travis fall to the ground. The six scared to death, thinking that the object was going to attack them, were shot out of there eventually. They turned around and returned to the scene, but Travis Walton was gone. His six colleagues in particular were named Mike Rogers who in Peterson, John Gollet, ef Steve Pears, Allen Dallice and Diam Smith. They all went straight to the police station, to the sheriff of the place where they lived, and there they reported Travis Walton missing. The first thing Sheriff Marlin gilsp did is arrest the six, thinking it was a murder case. He questioned them one by one in separate cells and before his surprise about what they said there was no

4:53 contradiction. It was all so perfect that it made the sheriff think that what they were actually covering up was murder. They went out with dogs and helicopter for three days and found absolutely nothing. The sheriff was from the town of Snowflake, where the seven loggers lived. Those three days went by, and also, in the face of the sheriff' s surprise and this was beginning to come out completely and absolutely out of the usual, they sent from the prosecution to say Gilson, who was an expert in passing polygraph tests to different detainees and for different crimes, and say Gilson made the polygraph separately to the six woodcutters and six times he said that the Is were telling the whole and absolutely the truth. If it is true that the first person to get out of the murder theory is Zay Gilson, because he trusted 100% in the reliability of his proof, he said that cheating the polygraph was impossible. Minus six untrained lumberjacks to be able to do something like that. The point is,

6:25 on the fifth day of Travis Walton' s disappearance, the phone rang in his house and he, in a stun voice. Travis Walton, commented that he was at a gas station in the state of Arizona, the state where they lived, too. His family. He ran towards him and they found him very deteriorated and as if he was really half- heard. They took him to the police station. He was taken to the hospital and once he was replaced by Travis Walton in the following thing, after impacting on him that ray of blue light and becoming unconscious. The first thing he saw was how he was lying face down on a metal bed, in an all metallic room and surrounded by beings about a meter and a half high, beings who had very white skin, nose and mouth very small, very small ears and, instead, very large skull and eyes, exactly like the gray ones you see in the movies. However, giving even more details of what he saw, he said that those beings did have pupils, that is, very similar eyes to humans. When Travis woke up in that room, he metalized me

8:01 in that bed face down, panicked, got out of bed and tried to assault the beings. The beings left the room and Travis Walton began to roam the ship. He says he made it to a room where there was some sort of star map with some buttons on it. He tried to touch the buttons manipulate that if he said there was a lever that when he touched it, even the stars moved. At that moment a human being appeared like you and me, in some sort of astronaut suit. Travi Walton tried to communicate with him, but there was no way. This one led him to a huge hangar where he saw other humans in an astronaut suit. They put a mask on his face, because he was very nervous. There he was unconscious and when he woke up, he did so on a forgotten highway in the State of Arizona. From there he walked until he found the gas station.

9:20 Travis Walton passed the polygraph. After all this and the stir he got into with the sheriff, he passed the polygraph again to Travi Walton and came out again telling the truth that seven people cheat a polygraph without training for it is impossible. Travis Walton' s story is that we' re not really alone. We do not know the intentions of our visitors, but even sometimes they kidnap human beings, they take them against their will, even if they return them. There will be cases where they do not return humans. Our visitors don' t really know. But Travis Walton' s story, if it puts on the table, that the dark plan of our visitors, is really something we don' t know. Now that they' re here and they leave a very clear footprint on our planet and on us. My name is Juan Jesús Vallejo. What you want to follow me on social networks, on my twitter is Juan ge Vallejo, Juan j de Vallejo, on Instagram, on Facebook Juan Jesús Vallejo. And this is another podcast, another mystery night

10:54 show. And here what we do is mystery journalism. We put the facts on the table and you decide what' s behind it and you don' t know what I' m doing. Author' s trips this year, from September 22nd to October 1st would be making an author' s trip to Egypt to walk by the pyramids of Giza, contemplating a work that looks like another world, so that you would sail along the Nile River, marveling at you with the magic of temples that are thousands of years old and still have a message in stone, which is a great mystery. All the information about this trip is available on the website. Three trips Juan Jesús Vallejo as I repeat, Three trips Juan Jesús Vallejo com and we start without curse. Alejandro Bernal, partner friend, how are you? All right, Juan or a greeting for you, for Richie the controls and also for all those who consume this content through the podcast that we posted on the YouTube channel of Caracol Radio ju Juan Gil. While you were relating this experience of Travis Walton, I imagined his story, because I have also seen him giving statements in interviews On purpose interviewed by Jorge Luis Sugtor. He was a friend here from the house so I could interview him Juan Ge and the story is so true. You see so much honesty, both hones and so scary when this man relates this experience and something that has to go very closely with what we' re going

12:26 to talk to tonight' s guest, Nestor Berlanda, one of the most important psychiatrists in Latin America and also worldwide regarding research related to extraterrestrials and others juange, and it' s that when you told us that Travis Walton starts wandering around the ship that observes human beings, it' s like these intelligences are manipulating him so that he doesn' t feel more scared what he' s already. Yes, it is one of the theories that he has that it really wasn' t real, but those gray beings, as he saw that they gave them so much created this holographically or something. We' ll never know the truth. The point is, well, the interview we have now with Nestor Rirlanda psychiatrist, that a man of science gets involved in investigating these kinds of cases. A man who is also a professor at the University of Argentina is extremely commendable. But it' s good that we' ve had four years of Tía Sí Juan, we' re celebrating onomastic today, four years here on Caracol Radio. Four years ago, when we were all locked up in our homes because of the health situation that happened. For John Jesus and this servant started here to bring you this space of mystery, which was initially an hour on a different schedule. We were the replacement of Colombian professional football and thanks to you, thanks to John Camacho, the directors of Caracol Radio, we are still on the air. Four years later, thank you so much for the millions of plays on YouTube, Spotify and all platforms.

13:58 People who listen to us live you want to listen right now is from your taxi or is supposed to work. Thank you very much, thanks to all that support. It is that Juan Jesús and this servant are here on mystery night, because I think we have tried to keep the magic of the radio, not tell history, look for characters who know more about those stories than we do, do a true journalism, a pleasant journalism, teaching the world that this really is mystery journalism. What he seeks is the magic of what surrounds us not seeing the world with the eyes of a child, trying to keep marveling at us and surprising us with a thousand things that are part of everyday life in the world. Although it is a journalism that can often be so gencial, not that many people see it as more this little thing And so I am tremendously happy because you know that this week I gave a talk at the University of the Forest. You have it online on YouTube on the YouTube channel of the University of the Forest. I think it' s wonderful. It was historic that mystery journalism is suddenly given a talk of mystery journalism at a Colombian university and here we are going to continue to do journalism, to have fun, to continue having friends throughout Latin America. The program, I think, also changed and evolved when we started collaborating with History Channel, as we started to have contact with researchers across the continent. And, well, with a figure, because very absurd, we have passed the hundred

15:28 million digital reproductions, on YouTube. I didn' t mean anything, and just because we were when I asked for the number in January, we were about ninety- six million Wow. We were already in ninety- six million reproductions in the playlists, to be exact, figures that I don' t believe. I think this program has become known across the continent, thanks to a man we don' t know that the artificial intelligence of YouTube started to recommend it. And, well, I don' t have the exact figures from other platforms like Spotify, but I do know that we' ve grown a lot, because in these author trips that I do, I get a lot of people who already hear the program from other platforms like Spotify. So nothing, because tremendously happy to thank all of our audience, the whole great family for the mystery that really behaves like a family, because they do not attack us nor the scinacies by networks. They' re very quiet. It ' s like playing, very calm, very quiet, already realizing that this is here and ready. Thank you very much. Obviously, not only me in Camacho, but everything that is the group Prisa and Prisa Radio, Felipe Cabrales that makes this dream come true. And well, let' s hope to continue not four more years, but I want to retire here I love radio already. Yes, and I can say in curiosity that the other day

17:00 I was interviewed on a YouTube channel in Spain. He was telling me, but what a shame that you don' t have a TV show in Spain with your numbers And so, that' s two things. I don' t want to make television again and I don' t want to go back to Spain. I' m perfect, I' m very comfortable here in Colombia and I' m happy doing radio, because the magic of radio has no other means of communication. The people, the people who hear Podcast and the entire podcast audience are a very special audience. There are people who like culture, there are people who like to get into history, in our case, because they like mystery journalism, who like to be talked about well in conditions, looking for data, looking for truthful facts and putting them on the table that, even if they seem impossible or very surreal things, are real and redraw the limits of reality. And I think that' s the key to absolutely everything. You want to add something else, John that thanks to all the great family of mystery that has made on mystery night one of the podcas we have heard in Hispanoamerica. Thank you very much, because thank you very much to everyone and after thanks to the family, to the mystery that was forced. We are going to start with the interview with Nestor Berlanda, a psychiatrist who has investigated many cases of abduction and who has several books published about it. And the interview with Nestor bel Randa starts like this. It is an experience that often begins with a sense of lost time. Other times no, other times it becomes more lucid suddenly to see a light that time

18:34 happens as it stops and in the midst of that series of abnormalities that appear beings that apparently are from other worlds, because we don' t really know where they come from and it is very difficult to try to investigate this, not only from a serious journalistic point of view, but also to enter to investigate this type of phenomenon someone who is expert in the riddles of the human mind? And no one is more expert than the riddles of the human mind than a psychiatrist. And that' s why we have the luck and the honor of having for the first time here mystery night in Radio snail, the Argentine psychiatrist, Néstor Berlanda. And Nestor, it' s my turn to ask you the question that I always ask to any guest who appears on mystery night in Radio snail, who is Nestor Berlanda for the entire Radio snail audience and mystery night. Good night to you all. Well, thanks for the invitation, thanks also to our listeners. Well, I' m a psychiatrist, and really, as someone who was linked to the investigation for a long time said, and that you knew him from Chico, here in our country, who was Fabio Serpa, whom we were going to see in the theater

20:04 when we were teenagers. Then he went weaving a friendship and he always told me you were the first omnilogue that psychiatrist. And it was actually like that. I mean, I was interested in Chico because of the omni phenomenon, because of the mysteries also of ancient civilizations and all that, and then I started to study medicine and then the specialty of psychiatry and obviously linked to the specialty of psychiatry, to the fact that suddenly the greatest mystery that we can have an account is just the human mind. And with the recollection of a lot of things you lived in Chico, I found myself out there when you look back and see in the cases you were investigating when we were sixteen, seventeen years old. We, at that time there was another group of boys, which later formed an entity several decades later, but they were two or three years older than us. Then they were eighteen or nineteen. We were sixteen, seventeen. And looking back, I realized that I was interviewing psychotic patients many times that I didn' t know were psychotic, obviously, but that we were already interviewing him. I remember that on Friday night we met at my house, there were seven or eight of us and we looked into

21:37 Mr Te' s case. I' m talking decade of the late' 70s, early' 80s. M was someone who communicated, he said to the little boys from the cigarette, that is, with the cigarette of the lubuca, cigarette lit upwards and there the little girls appeared. Well the weather, obviously later they were paraphrenic. There was no doubt about it for the fréedic. They are those who have delusions of fantastic characteristics. He was telling us we' re gonna fill stadiums while we get to know message and so on. And several of those cases one had when he was a kid. So, when you' re big enough, you' re already in the middle of what' s the psychiatric clinic. I realized that in reality, a psychiatric interview I was already doing with sixteen years before I was a psychiatrist and obviously that, although it makes a lie, it is still a teaching that one is incorporating then, one also acquires the possibility of being able to easily differentiate when someone is having something that is pathological or is experiencing an experience of another order. And that then is a fundamental tool, because at that time I remember that many of these people wanted to look for either a psychologist or a psychiatrist who could tell us whether that person was sick or not.

23:07 Today, that' s what you do yourself. No. So, my career really gave me the chance to have that background of experience, of the interview, which is the fundamental thing, of the clinical interview, which is the fundamental thing. I think in a subject like this of mysteries and more, when someone experiences things, being able to identify, being able to discern how far there might be a pathology or not. And there in such a field of intrigue. Well, I mean, Nestor Bernanda is a well- known person for his research, aside as a psychiatrist and correct me. If I' m wrong that you' re also a university professor, you' re a university professor, you' re super- known, not only in Argentina, but outside of Argentina, in the field of ufology and research the other day, a very funny thing happened to me. I, who am Spanish, was talking to a friend of mine, journalist José Antonio Caravaca.

24:06 He told me men, I don' t know what, I don' t know how much, because Mr Nestor Berlanda said with Nestor I was having coffee in Victoria between Rios last year was when we met personally. So if you' re a very well- known person, let' s say. That' s precisely because your background as a psychiatrist and your expertise as a psychiatrist makes you have to investigate certain phenomena and certain facts, a baggage that others don' t have. I' m a journalist, I can try to verify fact, but I have no idea of the pathology of mental pathologies. Well, you' ve told us what your adolescence was like. He loved the omni phenomenon studying medicine, you become a psychiatrist and once he becomes a psychiatrist, you comment that from there you see the phenomena in a different way and your investigations once he is already a psychiatrist and he is trained.

25:02 When' s the first time, the first case you say goes there. This guy doesn' t have any pathology. This guy' s not crazy. What you' re saying is something that can cost us a lot to understand. But the guy doesn' t lie about the profession anymore, so to speak with the profession on top, because one had investigated cases before having the profession. But perhaps the case that we were able to discuss on several occasions and that coincided precisely with all the time it took us. We got five years and the psychologist Juan Acevedo wrote the Book of Strangers. It was precisely the case of Julio Plamner, in the case of the pampa. In the year August nine of a thousand nine hundred and eighty- three, there we had a group that had the first contact with him and then it was a first- hand contact there, let' s say at three four days, that group remains our friends and then we saw it. Already in the year ninety- five ninety- seven we were two or three times with him, including in some television shows, also in Buenos Aires and Bueno Julio.

26:25 Plamner was a person, I mean because, unfortunately, he passed away a few years ago. He was a totally electric person, no more than a totally credible person. He was a person who had a question of selling animal food there in a Nifreda locality, in the pampa that the pope is a province, he is in the center of our country, Argentina, and nothing to do with all these issues at all, that is, totally remote. And the case of him is very fresh. What just happened to him?

27:07 The case of him is very fantastic, because he leaves the house of a gentleman who sold him all this kind of stuff and around eight o' clock at night, he' s closing goes with the car, he' s closing the quiet, the entrance to that room and suddenly he sees a light maybe so he has to cover with his hand that light that completely illuminates him. The next memory you have is to see yourself sitting on a couch like a dentist. He says surrounded by four figures, three men and one woman, because he can determine that there is a woman, because she sees the breasts of round eyes protruded one meter seventy- five meters. And he comes to that conclusion because you see him similar to the height of a friend of his and one of these beings in a place in a room that was illuminated, but he didn' t know where the light all covered with a kind of brown color came from and suddenly he sees one of these beings taking his arm, making a small incision on his wrist and then putting a tuito, a flexible tube in just the bend of the elbow and seeing how the blood

28:38 is ascending, but he doesn' t record any kind of puncture. The other memory he has is suddenly standing alone in that room. And the other memory already has him in a van without the jacket he was wearing and when he looks he was on a road if I remember correctly about seven kilometers from the room that actually turns around and he goes to see if he had left the gate closed or not, because he just grabbed this light at that moment. The interesting thing about the case is that Julio Plander has the marks on the bending of the elbow and it is very interesting because he is seen by two doctors, a biochemistry and a doctor and really what the doctor proposes is that it is actually like a suction. It' s not that there was a twig, just of course, there' s not a function, but a suction. It' s like he was sucked straight in without a needle.

29:49 And you can see because we had the luck, this group that we formed at that time, being three days away from the case, taking a f photograph of the arm and you can perfectly appreciate a red circle and a lot of white dots, like the white dots would be like the white blood cells that are left in that, that is, you don' t see a puncture hole, you see something red like swollen the skin and spots as if they were just that suck. Let' s say that not that mark didn' t have it anymore in the ninety- seven, when we saw it, but if it had a small scar at the height of the wrist, very small. The interesting thing about the Planner case, it could never be regressed. Obviously, a lost time of about sixty minutes to ninety minutes.

30:57 I mean, we don' t know what happened at that time. But the most interesting thing is that Julio Plander continued to experience things from the year eighty- three, which was the case, until the year ninety- five. Ninety- four ninety- four that we saw again. Well, I' d had two or three more events. I' d seen lights in another event. He had been driving from a different side to where he had to go in the field and was totally blindfolded, such a point that he just got off, stopped the truck, came home, stopped the truck, walked into his house and just into the kitchen of his house. There he opens his eyes and realizes he' s at home. And the most interesting thing is also that the wife, in what I know an opportunity suddenly appeared also these figures around the cam The story of Julio Plander. In my opinion, although we had a very nice relationship with Julio, we saw him before this date at a congress in the year nineteen hundred and eighty. I think it was not eighty- eighty- three. This was the case in the year eighty- seven, at a congress in the year eighty- seven.

32:25 Then we saw him in ninety- four, and we saw him in ninety- five. In ninety- seven we had a good relationship with Julio. To Julio things continued to happen and there is a story that obviously, as it is said, took her to the grave because, obviously, more things happened to her. I love cases like this, like the one that Néstor Berlanda is telling us, because there are also physical traces in this case, also investigated and corroborated by doctors, as is that point of suction in man. We were in the interview with Nestor Berlanda, as he talked to us about the details of the abduction of Julio Platnr, a tattoo in which there were physical prints, investigated and corroborated by doctors who showed that what happened to this man did not have a conventional explanation. The only way to understand his experience is that he was actually kidnapped by beings from other worlds, and the interview with Nestor Berlanda continues like this. More things happened to me.

33:35 It' s up to me to have a talk with the son I have contact with, but I want to have a talk personally to see what he can tell me. That was the first case where one can say for sure that he was a total and absolutely normal person, that all he had was to live an extraordinary encounter, a situation that did not have an explanation within the parameters of orthodox science, but that was totally and absolutely true, although we can never know what the origin is. That' s where we get into speculation and that' s where suddenly a lot of speculation comes in and maybe fantasize, too. But the fact is real. The fact is real.

34:21 We have a very particular position on the issue of salutation based on what we have seen and the cases we have investigated. But the fact was totally and absolutely real to my judgment and is something that I find tremendous. The first thing I wanted to comment on is you told us that they have a book called The Strangers. I don' t know if you can get on Amazon for all the people who hear the show? If you can get it on Amazon well, then throughout Latin America you put Néstor Verlanda in books and this one of the strangers will appear. I didn' t know you' d published for years. Strangers have a very particular story, because the strangers we wrote together with Juan Acevedo Peinado, who is a psychologist, was published in Argentina in the year I miss the date in the year two thousand.

35:15 The book entered the publishing house in a thousand nine hundred ninety- nine, ninety- eight ninety- eight and went out in the year two thousand. It was a circulation of two thousand and five hundred copies and that version in Argentina let' s say we raise one, we present a whole series of cases of actions of some of those we investigate. The cases that we consider most important and there is a whole theoretical foundation where we propose, that the whole subject of abductions has to do with consciousness that the functions are real, but that there are no extraterrestrial beings involved in our judgment, that I have the entity of itself, but they may have another origin, or they are of another nature, and that the subject of abduction is intimately related to what are shamanic initiations, that is, the process of abduction follows the same steps as a shamanic initiation, which are that of the original peoples that to make just shaman the one who travels in particular states of consciousness to the other world, who enters into contact with entities and then brings information to their community and, obviously, is subjected by the spirits of the ancestors or other entities that put objects into his body, such as, for example, quartz crystals.

36:43 The area where this happens are usually also illuminated caverns, but you don' t see where the light comes from and so on Well, practically the additions follow, they follow exactly the same sequence as the shamanic initiations. What do we present in that book? It turns out that this book was taken by bergel in Spain precisely from anomalous reissues, and is reissued by anomalous reissues in Spain in the year two thousand and eighteen. And that' s where the book has a fantastic success and suddenly the ideas that we launched at the time and that when we presented them within the Omnis congresses, they were not very well seen. Well, from the launch of the book in Spain in two thousand eighteen, Well has a tremendous success, let' s say, it moves very well the book. In fact, the stage of the book in Argentina made us put because it was anger at that time. We are talking at the end of the ninety two thousand years, the title that carries as a subtitle is extraterrestrial abductions in Argentina, that that title forced us to put the editorial. The real title that we wanted to put on the one that

38:15 has the book in Spain, which is abduction. It' s myth consciousness and reality. This is the stage of the book in strangers, which is the only one that is now in circulation the edition of anomalous reissues and he speaks it, I just saw it in Amazon Latin America, that is, that all the people in Latin America can buy the book from all the people who are listening to the podcast. And then, at the end of the interview, I' m going to ask you why I want you to talk to me about a few more cases, because I, too, on Amazon, who didn' t know that you had published a book about the story of Juan Oscar Pérez Vale, but before you put us in and give me that hypothesis and leave it in a prison room that' s hand- in - hand there that gives him a chungo. We' re gonna sort all this out, because there' s a lot of information. The subject is as follows. First of all, that book The Strange Super Mega recommended me as interviewer. I buy it that I' ve had coffee with you, but I' ve never been told that I' ve published a book with your research. Milk then what I am going to and before I give way to Alejandro Bernal, who will also ask about the experience he has told us about Julio Platner. There' s one thing I find curious about, and that' s what I love you about, what I want to ask you about. And then he goes, then he goes, Alejandro, the guy sees the light, he even puts his hand on his face. You already have that feeling of lost time. Next image, He is in a place where there are three men and a woman, where he sees what looks like

39:53 some kind of dental chair. Notice that this is very, very heavy, that you have left the suction mark, not the blood puncture. I mean, there' s a physical, physical thing of course, but my question, as a psychiatrist, and then you go Alejandro. My question, as psychiatrists you believe because I do believe that the attentions are real and that the phenomenon absolutely real. I' ve dedicated half my simple life to this and I love to ask myself this. It' s the first time you' ve asked a psychiatrist, and he' s talked about this, for example, with José Antonio Caravaca, who knows that he now has one thing called the theory of distortion, and that' s the next topic. He doesn ' t believe in nessator that what he' s seeing at that moment, Julio Blabner, is something so different from our world than what his Brain does.

40:46 I mean, I' m going to try to understand it, and the only way to understand gestures like following a dentist, this is like I ' m getting blood from the doctor, even though what' s going on is something different, because the cultural well what we know, is what I think our brain would do to keep us from panicking, but a panic of dying you see that kind of fact, because you' ve investigated it in different translations. Besides, of course, that' s very likely to happen. That' s why I was telling you that what changes with the subject of shamanic initiations is simply the scenario. The scenario changes, but the facts don' t change. The facts are the same. That' s the most amazing thing of all. And the most surprising thing of all is that when suddenly we, who work for more than twenty years investigating the States employed of conscience, investigating the topic of the yahuasca, specifically in fact, another of the books that we have published that already huasca medicine of the soul that will surely come out in April also in Spain, an expanded vision of that we publish in the two thousand. In that book we collected more than a hundred protocols, from more than five zero people who made experiences with us in different fields, in the Jungle, in the city with Chamanes and in Shamanes we made protocols, two protocols, one made by Dr Riques Traman in the

42:17 United States and another in protocol of our own. We chose a hundred of those protocols, and with that we process that information. And the book describes some experiences. And the most interesting thing And why I tell you this, because one of the people, specifically a woman, who makes an experience of an old- fashioned, nothing to do with the omni theme absolutely nothing to see relates exactly the same each and every step of a typical experience, of abduction, of a typical experience, of timefulness, a light, lost time, strange beings surround it bla bla bla appear exactly. Then we have the shamanic initiations with another scenario, but the same sequence the abductions that have their maximum expression from the nineties, where the image of the gray is consolidated, starting precisely from the lid of the book of Witter Striver, of Communion that even the stage of the book was not the being that had seen, because it was more the being that had inhabited Witter Striber. But the image that is fixed in culture is the image of gray and there are also examples of omnis and abductions in experience of expanded States of consciousness. So the common factor

43:52 we have in all three episodes is shamanism. We know that, either by different types of techniques, substances, psychoactive substances, dances, sensory isolation, are made into non- ordinary states of consciousness. Those translated are most likely to be in a non- ordinary State of conscience. There, in the book we speak of the State Theta, which is a state where the brain waves are between four and eight hers that would be the state that we always have when we go to sleep or are waking up. It is a very short state that we usually have. We believe that this is the State that produces the abduction phenomenon would also be involved in the consciousness. And, on the other hand, we also have these cases of conscientiously employed States that we have done with the investigation of the already huasca, where the same phenomenon is also reproduced. And there' s another thing that' s tremendously fantastic, it' s who he wants, but who can, according to a certain biological psycho condition. What we mean by this is that suddenly there is the first one who touched on this issue was kenneth Rin, who is a psychiatrist.

45:22 I don' t think I' m going to agree at the University of which universities, but well he got out in the United States. He took out a book called Project Omega Forgiveness. The first was the path to Omega, where he investigated near- death experiences. After that book he released a book called the Omega Project where he investigates the additions and begins to find a similarity between near- death experiences and deductions. And he specifically states that those who have been brought forward really have in gender in the vast majority traumas in childhood, situations whether they have experienced violence, abuse or traumatic situations due to childhood illnesses, which has led those children to remain fixed in the pre - socialization stage. What would it be that at the stage we say where they have invisible friends and all that kind of stuff where there' s a connection, let' s say with employed states of consciousness and with the other side, to put it some way or another part of the spectrum of reality.

46:34 Then it is as if these children have acquired the ease of entry, if guided spontaneously in these States, not ordinary of conscience. And find this in near- death experiences and in allusions. When we take this information and pass it on to the cases that we had investigated, well, exactly the same is true, that is, all the people who have had a traumatic situation during childhood. And if we go further, that' s a topic I' ve been working on for the past four or five years and that, in fact, I' m writing a book now that I hope at some point to finish it, because I' ve been announcing it for like a year and I haven' t finished it yet, which is a biological molecule that Dr. Rique Stlasman in the 1990s, which is called the molecule, which is called DME dimethyl Triptamine, dimethyl thirty mira, which is one of the compounds of the already huaasca. And Rick Strarasman in that he got the FDA to authorize him to conduct the first research with psychoactive compounds. After the ban, he does just the experience with DMT, injecting sixteen volunteers and appears in several cases of abductions. So do I. So just what I hold and what I put as a theory is that the molecule, which would

48:09 be the key that would enable the possibility of entering non- ordinary states of consciousness and living this type of experience is precisely the dimenti triptamine, and there would be these individuals who would have a greater production of dimethyl tritamine, which is a substance that we have in our brain. That of dimetrile tritamine, apart from the yahuasca shots, we have it naturally in our organism, which many psychologists or psychiatrists also think would also have to do with the theme of dreams. But Alejandro Bernal, who has been with his long hand Juange for a while, is that the case of Julio Platner seems fascinating to me, because also the press Anglosajona dedicated to him at the time. And there' s something very interesting about what happened to Julio Nestor, and he came to comment that at some point, a doctor X- rayed his spine and detected a small implant in this part of his body. Moreover, Julio went on to comment that, before these anomalous events, of these encounters with these beings, this implant produced a buzz. You know something about it, Honéstor, yes, that was told to me by Julio, in the ninety- five year we went we had an interview with him, but that information gave it to us just when I came in. We were actually going to see a

49:43 lecture, and I know there was more information, but there are things that he didn' t talk about. He sometimes commented to other researchers, but I particularly had a bitter taste left, because it was a pending account. I mean, we already told you we had a very good relationship with Julio because at the time he was also taking him to TV shows and so on, we were two professionals, a psychologist and a psychiatrist, we went on a program of an important channel of Buenos Aires and suddenly we were shooting that obviously, we were also putting our title in play. We weren' t talking, because the difference we often have with some researchers is that we do get the title at stake when we talk about some things, like what happened to John mac at the time when he started investigating these cases. But the reality is that when one works seriously, people may or may not like the other pleguet but there is a reality in contrast and the invitation is to come, first investigate and then talk. But, yeah, that' s what July told me, and he actually told me about two implants on both sides of the spine. But I never saw the X- rays, I never

51:15 could access more or a regression that could validate or extract more valid information I want. I want to tell you a number of things. The first thing you are a brave man, because notice that you quoted John Mac, who is a psychiatrist at Harvard Crría Harva, was very famous because he investigated a case in Rúa to Zimbabwe, a case known as Alejandro Bernal. Very much. I think you have a video on your YouTube channel on Mandragon. Mysteries that people can see about Zimbabwe' s Rúa case. You guys play games, actually, because I do this. If a journalist insults me the scientist and blocks him and that' s enough, but you' re in the scientific field, because it' s something else and that' s why I thank you. Also, for this interview and for your time. And then one thing, how do we pass then, Nestor, that this is the big question, because I don' t doubt a moment of what you' ve said, that the subject of abduction. And then we' ll ask you about some other case, like that of good Oscar Perez, although good as we go, I think we could give you fourteen interviews. It is not going to give us time how we actually passed, the shamans what they were doing was a journey into another world. And it is still curious that there is a series of parallels with the phenomenon of abduction, with that time lost in health, those strange beings, and also near- death experiences.

52:45 And there are near- death experiences. I recommend to people a book called The Test of our friend Mado Martínez and there is a whole chapter of near - death experiences, where people say that what they see are the famous extraterrestrial greys and such instead of angels or other type of sheath. That' s very curious. But how we went from this, that it would be a spiritual experience to what happened to Julio Planner, that there remains a physical mark of a suction or even implants in his spine to vertebrate, because this would no longer be just a mystical experience, that is, a shaman does not come from the trance with an implant or that lacks blood. Julio Planner, yes, how we could come to understand this. In this I am not going to advance the answer, because it is very good. I' m not gonna get ahead of her. Which is very curious. It is all the parallels that Nestor Berlanda has made between what the abductees suffer and what can happen in an experience close to death, death or in trances of shamanism as well. And very curious the subject of the molecule of God, that is, dimethyl tryptamine, which in people who have been translated turns out to have more than other people that has not happened, so clearly it is what a man does that scientist will start to charluz about something that had no light.

54:09 Exactly Juan Hey, I believe that when it comes to talking to researchers like a Nestor Berlanda or also with military or pilots, Juan who always comes to mind what we have reiterated also in this space are super qualified witnesses. And you will observe Nestor analyzing these types of cases with scientific rigor and also with a very simple and clear language so that we all understand it, John, which I think wonderful and clearly convert and demonstrate that Nestor Berlanda is one of the great referents at the level of this type of research worldwide. Indeed, my friend, you have already remembered the question I was asking Nestor Berlanda, which was valid. There are a series of parallels between shamanic experiences and near - death experiences with what the abductees narrate. But of course the abductees also bring a series of physical marks, such as, for example, it can be that blood suction of an arm or that there are implants left in the body, which is something tremendously strange and then I asked him listen. But instead, the shamans and these people can' t do something like that and Nestor Berlanda responded in this way. It' s just, actually the shamans do come with implants many times and with uncertain things in the body, which are quartz crystals. And if the shamans materialize things, for example, when they do harm, in fact, we have seen it we could give at Rosario' s medical school. I think it was the first course in traditional

55:43 Indo- American medicine to bring shamans to the medical school of different ethnicities. And one of those shamans was a wichol, which is one of the Indians who are in northern Mexico and who have as their sacred substance. Let' s say the peyote, the peyote cactus and the run chole showed their ceremonies in their healings and was able to extract stones, that is, that one could see them how they did, how they pulled out. That an act of good magic may be, I don' t know, but let' s say that within shamanism this, that is, materialized pachita organs, is very common. Gremberg himself says so and several researchers who have been and have witnessed it say so. So the problem is that here we have to change our conception of what is consciousness and what is reality. Consciousness and reality are two sides of the same coin. The reality that we understand as such that exists in which we are talking right now, is not what we believe, which is a construction of our brain, what we have outside. There are actually waves and there are wave interferences and information that our brain processes and transforms into this which is the world we see or the world of consensus that we

57:16 have under that premise. Someone who can move that ideal of reality, make that interference of waves outside take another volume, can just leave material things and even footprints on the body, because we are no longer. It is not that we consciousness interacts with matter, but with the universe. We' re the same. We are the same as the Universe. I mean, we don' t interact, we' re the same, we' re one more degree, we' re the same as matter with one more degree of consciousness, with one more degree of subtlety. Maybe, but we' re all in that same mass of energy, in that same wave mass. So it' s David Bond' s theory, for example, in the holographic universe, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, it' s changing when you change your conception and we start to see that, for example, red or colors don' t exist, because you couldn' t explain to a born blind man who knows a lot about mechae, mechanics, engineering, genetics, electricity, magnetism. You can explain to him what red color, for example, is a certain wavelength, that there is a certain cell in our eyes, in our retina, that transform those impressions into electrical stimulus go to the brain. More. You can explain all that to him, but

58:49 a blind man of birth will never know what the red itself is the subjective quality of the object that is called qualias, the qualias are the capacity, the quality his pons that has an object, which already the color is a qualia, It is a construction of our brain. It does not exist outside, there is a wave, but there is no redness of the red or blue of the blue. So, when we begin to investigate all these kinds of things and realize that consciousness has the possibility to change the world that we see and when that day moves the one of consciousness and the normal state expands, you can enter other states and other worlds where there are entities that interact with one, which are the famous entities of met for example, which are called there. It changes the conception of everything and you realize that everything is plastic and that everything is dynamic and that there are no limits, as we conceive it, that we are separated from each other and that we are separated from matter. Under this, I' m now working, including on a presentation I' m going to make at the next Victoria Congress, what could be the vehicle that can help all of this. Let' s say an element that is there and that would interact with consciousness for this. And when you begin to understand this, you begin to see that everything is possible.

1:00:15 And that' s where you break all the laws that you can understand, because we' re entering directly into another kind of knowledge where we talk about these things, science can get to explain it in part simply that it also changes the scientific paradigm, but that would be a little explanation. It' s really all there. It' s not like what you' re proposing is great. Before we go into a thorough investigation of what the performances are. We should thoroughly investigate what reality is, which is real and is not real, see that I agree, you were talking and the interview more about attuations, but I was remembering Oxford biologist Ruper Celdrake, also that Ruper Celdrak, who is a gentleman who tells us that reality is much more complex than we are seeing. By the way, even in texts, I think they got a talk he gave them, and that' s because the guy' s a genius. The guy' s absolutely. But notice there' s one thing more surprising than me. When I saw that slide that I presented it at the Victoria Congress, I stayed there because I was shocked the year, in the two thousand twenty- two the archives of the impossible are opened

1:01:45 at the University of Rise by the professor jeffy Crippal and there go different files of impossible. It' s all research or Wittle Straiver' s letters, which he later received, after I took out the Book of Communion. All this material is stored at Rise University and one of the materials presented was the King sli that leslie quiin is this American journalist who was the one who made known the whole question of the flights of OMNIT C Tack in the two thousand seventeen and I is in December of two thousand seventeen. New is wrong. Well, leslie King shows a slide showing in red what the real goal of the project was to w a we who had the first gelou that gave him that$ 22 million budget. I think he' s been working on Sking, Walker, Drunch and so on. And on that slide, leslie King puts in red that the first goal that that group had, led at the time by Robert Begelow, was to investigate the nature of reality. Then that ' s where you say it. Well, here he was getting money.

1:03:09 The U S government was putting in money to investigate Omnis, but actually one of the main objectives was to study the nature of reality. So, obviously, we' re finding that this has a much broader connotation than we always thought it had. It doesn' t have a lot of tremendous implications, because what' s happening in the OMNI phenomenon is that, suddenly it' s like the curtains of the reality we live in fall. How we understand that reality thanks to our sense, and people enter another world, into another reality, which is what happens to the shamans, or is what happens to the abducted. And there' s a Magimus subject I want to ask you now. Look at one of the most absurd things about the OMNI phenomenon.

1:04:05 But that doesn' t take away truthfulness is when a gentleman appears who has had a super strong experience with these types of entities and always arrives having messianic messages that the world is going to end, or that I don' t know what sheath. But just as it happens to the shamans, and I always count the same case, not because I lived it investigating an OMNI case in a town called the stopover, in the province of Girona, in Spain, in Catalonia. Well then, two gentlemen, two policemen, how good to see is not that the police saw the OMNI, is that a sphere of light about three or four meters in diameter was passing over the scale in Girona and the people terrified failing the police. That' s right. It is not that they were the ones who saw the omnius. Not the terrified people called the local police center. So the local police headquarters had a car patrolling and said hey you' re telling people you see a light, that I don' t know what they looked at. They said milk that I ' m seeing it as true, too. They followed that health, that sphere of light and that sphere of light stood beside me. I was at the site, next to a pole of electricity still giving the mark down on the ground, a circle of grass. There it didn' t grow well and nothing, because that stops there. These gentlemen get out of the car

1:05:38 and suddenly say that a being of about three meters comes out of the sphere of light towards them and one of the two policemen hands the gun. As that happens, there' s a flash and one of them. Well, she practically loses the sight of one eye. Then, suddenly, the being disappears and the sphere leaves at a total absurd speed. Well, when I interviewed the one who had the eye injury, there' s a medical part of the eye injury. That' s why that case is so important in lonfology. In Spain, the other policeman has already died of cancer I don ' t remember the name right now. When I interviewed him and so and all this I went to the scene with him, but outside the Chamber.

1:06:28 You know what he told me, that story really hit me. Mira juang told me what' s important. Not in what I saw or my partner, which almost cost him the vision of an eye says. The problem is that it gets in my head and I' m home and he tells me and my wife tells me what' s wrong with you. Says no that the being that I saw is talking to me and tells me to go back to where the power light pole and blah, blah? Bla? Bla? Bla? Bla? And I just played telling my wife how nervous I get and not going, because she' s so obsessive in my mind, that it' s like I need to go and that' s, like that ' s going to give her a message of transcendence or for her life or for and that guy who told me out of camera so I wouldn' t record it because they had been a cop and he wasn' t lying to me. Nestor was telling me the truth, I mean, why the hell is that, because I don' t know, I have no idea, but it' s amazing. Ajandro Bernard Juan g It looks at the hand of what we are talking about. There' s a statement he gave to James Lackatsky. This man was the head of the program of application of the advanced aerospace weapons system within the Pentagon, one of the programs prior to the hoop and these OMNI research initiatives, and this man spoke as the OMNI phenomenon produced phenomena of psychological manipulation. And I' m going to read you the

1:08:00 excerpt from the statement this man gave. He said the following. Everything works as if OMNIS were the product of a technology that integrates physical and psychic phenomena and mainly affects the cultural variables of our society through the manipulation of psychological and physiological parameters. I repeat statements by James la Katski, who is the head of one of the Pentagon' s research programs to the British press a few months ago. It' s just that brutal we' re not going to get into it now that they' ve said that all of a sudden, this idiot Patrick' s the one. Now this doesn' t exist and I don' t know what it' s worth, because the reality, very good touches it just contributed, the reality is worth what Alejandro Bernal is saying. But look at this thing that Néstor Brlanda is saying from my point of view, and now I would like your opinion before I ask you about some other case that we are going to take the interview with this is the following, the most important thing about the OMNIC phenomenon and the most disturbing thing from my point of view is that abductions and the phenomenon do not start.

1:09:10 A thousand nine hundred and forty- seven, when for the first time in history we speak of flying saucer, because a man named Knettarnold sees him on Mount Rainier in the State of Washington. The point is that if I go to Green Table in New Mexico and I go to see the paintings of the Hoppies, there appear some very strange beings, who look like beings from other worlds. It is that if I go to Tasili in Algeria and that is already twelve thousand years old, ten twelve zero years old, in a place that is called Javaren, which means Tamashek, the valley of the Giants, there appear some beings that carry as a sort of scapander and that are moving ungrateful and exactly like things that the adducees tell us, that is the most disturbing thing the s ieo. That is why I want another opinion ness Ireland is that it seems that it has been modulating the history of humanity through mystical and religious phenomena, because the paintings of the Tasili have a shamanic and religious end and according to that lived the good beings were going to say centuries thousands of years and the religion of ethical codes and so on, and either the Hoppies Indians or in valcamonic also the petroglyphs that there are, for example, in Italy or in many places. What do you think of this that I know is I think the big deal about the Mira question. I think we ' re talking about the same thing. Tasili' s engravings are accompanied by

1:10:45 fungi I put plo civic, specifically. In fact, there are representations that they are called the third bee being, which has its entire body surrounded by fungi and civics. And the most interesting thing, the dancing mushrooms, which are two dancing honguitos than you don' t know that they have black and big eyes, the dancing honguitos. Actually, the big black eyes. It also has a representation that is just the eyes of vision. Those who can see beyond those paintings such as the ones you named, which are of shamanic origin, most likely have to do with States employed of conscience where they were seen and met with these entities. I have no doubt that the OMNI phenomenon is a trans- historic phenomenon that has accompanied humanity since the beginning. But what we are thinking today and I speak plural because we are at this moment writing the strange two, zero and there is a third part called the strange three zero next to Juana Cevedo, that we are very involved in these issues and we already passed other questions on time. Also that we are in the presence of a local phenomenon, that is, that' s the most shocking thing, that is, it' s a historical trans phenomenon and it' s a local phenomenon. When we say that it is a local phenomenon,

1:12:15 we are saying that it is a phenomenon that has accompanied and that it is here on another plane of reality or called dimension whatever you want, but it is here with us and it has obviously been as you say, whether perhaps manipulating or as the system of control of humanity said for a certain purpose and it continues to do so, obviously, and it also has the effect that very commonly all shamanisms, which is the trixter factor, the sad factor in the figure of the sad, the mocker, have it. Inside shamanism there is a figure, an entity that seems to tell you everything and tells you nothing, that is always mocking in the sense that you are always hiding something.

1:13:06 It shows you a part, but there is always another part that remains just in the mystery. And this is what makes the OMNI phenomenon, the absurd factor. The absurd factor is also the most fantastic thing that the uni phenomenon has because you come all right in one case and suddenly there appears to you a thing that is absurd and you say this what is lying? You ' re not lying to him? Did you live that? And why did he live that? Because I think the question of absurdity is also what makes you break and print out maybe that change because it gets you out of it it' s like you' re suddenly very attentive to a talk, but sometimes you lose the concentration power of everything that' s telling you. And if you put in a joke you automatically break up and it' s like you got it, you cut the information, you saved it, and then you go back to thinking. And that absurd factor. I think perhaps the factor that does this just to incorporate that knowledge. And, in short, these people are actually changing culture, and it is for me the great kit of the phenomenon, of the OMNI phenomenon, that is, it has been with us for thousands and thousands of years, but it is not only with us. What is shaping is the world in which we live, because through beliefs and ethical commands, of different beliefs, it is like societies, it also evolves And another day, for example, we could talk about Marian apparitions,

1:14:36 of fate, but well, let' s get into another, in another story. Well, before we get into another story, I think this is the great kitter of the phenomenon. First, redefining the limits of reality, because it is those things when they appear and such a story we always have in the head or in the head of extraterrestrials. Yes, because from outside the earth, but if it' s multidimensional, if it' s from another dimension, and that' s why it' s so strange and so hard to understand. And then those apparitions are not casual and the appearance of this absurd factor, as we were talking to Nestor. Berlanda doesn' t take away truth, we don' t take away truthfulness. It simply does as more difficult to believe many times more unlikely more strange. But it has changed our culture and changed our history. And it happens when I' ve told you this a thousand times a man named Menofic. Fourth, one day he goes hunting in Egypt, thousands of years ago a pharaoh and suddenly says that the sun spoke to him, that the sun does not speak to you. Obviously, a sphere of light. He spoke to him and then told him that he had to change religion to god Aton and blah blah blah blah, and changed the capital of Egypt to bring lamarra. But not only that, the fatima thing that we have five little minutes ahead of us.

1:15:59 The issue of fate is very complex, very controversial, because in a thousand nine hundred and seventy- eight, when the fine historian of the Navy for the first time can have access to the ecclesiastical archive of what was the apparition and, in particular, to the first interviews that are given to the children, which was 15 days after the first apparition was on the 13th of May, three hundred and twenty- three. I' m losing my ball. Now I say it. I say it exactly I have it pointed out here, when it is that first appearance, which is in May of nineteen hundred and seventeen and the day, if you leave me a second staff of what I say thirteen of May, yes, on May thirteen thousand nine hundred and seventeen, when it is that first appearance at fifteen days to be exact the one who interviews him, who is a Portuguese seminarian, a professor of the seminary, which is that he is the first one who is with the children.

1:17:03 And so, the description that children make is tremendously strange. The virgin measured one meter to ten That is to say, she appears in a column of light measuring one meter ten She has no hair, she has a sphere of blue light in her hand, and when she speaks to them, she does not move her lips. He talks to them in the mind like it ' s telepathy. Indeed, it is one thing and about that that you are also commenting shockingly on the story of the Portuguese journalists of the newspaper or Século, who had the opportunity to be during the Southern dance, on October 13th in nineteen hundred seventeen, which is one for me of the journalistic records.

1:17:47 Well let' s see if the key is the next fake. It is the Marian apparition, most important the Catholic Church in the 20th century, because between fifty and seventy zero people saw the sun going on the third day of October of nineteen hundred and seventeen. The point is, the sun wasn ' t exactly dancing and it was cloudy. You couldn' t see the sun. Yeah, yeah. And also, what they tell is that the first thing you see is a tiny cloud, very strange than the cloud. What comes out is an object, like a kind of disk, like opaque glass. That' s how they describe it. And then that starts spinning. And that' s when you put on a tremendous glow and see there the photos of the people who are standing watching the sun dancing, seeing how it is sphered with light. It moved without authentic, but a real madness.

1:18:38 I' d swear the seminarian' s name was Joaquín Gómez formigado I ' ve got it pointed out here, but it' s really amazing. So this is the first person who collects all the testimonies of the children and such children that of the three children two die from the flu in nine hundred nineteen and Lucia two saints than the remaining person and that everyone who communicates the secrets of Fatima and everything to the popes. You can never be interviewed. Never in history has tremendous silence been interviewed about it. Yes, of course what we were talking about with Néstor Juange in the interview with James Lackatsky, who was an official of the Repentaagon, a man who was in charge of the Omniprevia Bureau of Investigation, which is now known as the hoop. A few months ago he was giving some very interesting statements Juange for the international press and Katski said that he was aware, after the investigations, of the reports, of the evidences and so on, that he had been able to collect in the pentagon, that the intelligence behind the phenomenon is human or not human, or a parallel evolution in our world is clearly capable of manipulating the mind and matter is something that is capable of manipulating witnesses and that he was absolutely

1:20:09 certain of that. Indeed, it has a capacity over us and a capacity for manipulation. Tremendous, by the way, the name if you corroborated it. José Niñez Formicao was the teacher of the seminary and priest who interviewed the first to interview the children and who makes this famous drawing where the Virgin appears as a kind of short skirt that covers her just below the knee and a kind of padded jacket above. And it' s funny what the kids tell him that' s in the church archive. He says we saw a lady shining brighter than the sun, but she never identified herself as the Virgin.

1:20:51 He never said that it was the Virgin Mary with an aspect closer to an astronaut than to the Virgin Reria. Yeah, sure, if you see the picture that freaks out, man, it' s crazy. One day we had to do a show just about fatima. We were talking about how the phenomenon, even throughout history, has changed our culture. We were talking at the end of the other block even about the curiosities surrounding this phenomenon regarding the fatima appearances in Portugal in the year nine hundred and seventeen of last century, and we were deepening with Nestor Berlanda on this part that may seem very absurd to us, but that is the most intriguing of the UFO phenomenon. And the interview with Nestor Berlanda continues ah Yeah, well, I promise I' ll buy your book from strangers as the interview ends and when I get there I' m leaving now two months of travel, but as I get back I annoy you to tell me some other case. But I was lucky enough in Argentina to interview Juan Oscar Pérez. And besides, there' s here on mystery night. Entrevi is here on mystery night. You can hear it if you look for it, you don' t remember the same in the name of that podcast. But there is the full interview with Juan Oscarpres, Juan Oscar Pérez, who was a gentleman, well, a very simple man of field gaucho that when he was a child the age of twelve. If I remember correctly when he was twelve. Well, well, this kid gets

1:22:28 away with a crew, with some horses and so on, and he says what he suddenly sees is good, so let' s say with some sort of container. He thought it was a kind of container or a retractor or something like that modern. And it gets to that place, it sees a ladder, it climbs up that ladder and there it sees a being about two meters and peak high that are founded on a suit like rubber, which has a kind of rubber hood and a tube as if through that tube it could breathe and see at the same time to its left. When he comes in, he sees a little being, like some kind of robot that' s biting bones, and he' s saying that you' re really thick bones, like they' re cow bones. This being accompanies him, well, he goes down, he goes down, scared to death from that place, even the being this leaves him a glove and so on a story comes out of there and well, because good Oscar Perez then tells this story that goes viral in Argentina and I think in the middle of the world. Then he goes into anonymity. But when I interview Oscar Pérez with Oscar Pérez and that ' s why I ask you that I have seen that you have a book about this story that is called behind the fog, the real story, an extraordinary encounter, and this book you also have in Amazon Latin America. Well,

1:24:00 one thing that I, when I was interviewing him, left me a lot in shock, because he is of indigenous Guaraní origin and he insisted that after that experience, then he had an abduction as well and he insisted that those beings had put him in contact with the Taitas. Taitas are like sacred men in Guaraní culture and their ancestors, and that' s as if they had given a transcendent sense to their life, how was your interviews and how was your research with Juan Oscar Pérez. Nestor Good Look. The case of Juan appears for the first time in December of a thousand nine hundred and seventy - nine in a congress to OMNI in the city of Posadas Misiones, in the north of our country, organized by FAEZ, which at that time was a federation that nucleated most of the entities since they investigated names. There the group is still oaring deer with Raúl Bertolini, who was a great medical researcher.

1:25:09 Lumelli announces this case. Later, in the year nineteen hundred and eighty - seven, this congress is held in Rosario, where Julio Plander is located. We, at that congress, organized a panel of abductees. There was Julio Plander and there was Juan Oscar Pérez After that event of the year eighty - seven, where Juan always related exactly the same, nothing was known about Juano Carpérez, absolutely nothing until the year two thousand ten. In the year two thousand ten, who speaks to them and anthropologist Diego Viegas, we decided to see again what had happened to this boy who had had that encounter when he was twelve years old. And that' s how we started. We put in a private detective to see where he could live. He gave us an orientation. I wasn' t in that place, but these strange things happen. We were in the middle of a road opposite there was another room and there was a man drinking mate under a tree and like throwing a shot in the air to see if it was like we were actually shooting a shot in the air and going down a gull. I mean. That' s because we asked him if he knew Juan Oscarpierez. There is, John, a common man. We knew he had worked in front, but it was

1:26:43 for throwing and he tells us yes, yes, I know him here I have Joanocapérez' s brother- in- law' s phone. It doesn ' t hit the cell phone and while we start, we communicate with the brother- in- law and sister- in- law passes us Juan' s phone and we talked on a cell phone with Juan and told them where you are. We are in a town in Buenos Aires, about one hundred and fifty kilometers from Rosario, and we, who had gone to this place, continue there and arrive around seven in the afternoon. There' s a picture right there. In fact, there in the book we find, after almost thirty years, Juan Oscar Pérez. Again we spoke briefly, recounted the story again. We returned a couple of months later we already did a full interview, already told us a lot of questions and in the middle of all this falls to the city of Rosario, a film director, Alan Steverman, who had made a film that was called human. We contacted him. Another strange thing. John I have to tell her, because it' s these things that is how we were just talking about things guiding us. The phenomenon guides and I' m really amazing. Vania Diego Viega, the anthropologist waits for him at the exit of the theater and says I am from the Fundación Mesa Verde You are ames A Verde says that Nestor is holmando. So says Look at the book I grabbed to come from Buenos Aires to Rosario, which

1:28:14 I brought to read in the collective. Take that out of the backpack and the book I was reading was the strange Argentine version. The next day, look at what' s not, why I wanted to write them a novel about adduction. The next day we met at the Casa de Diego, we showed him all the material of Juan Pérez. He gets excited, we ask him to make a short film for us to be able to show the case. Let' s record with him. We do one more recording, better cameras and so on. It repeats the same story again and two or three months go by. Alan is going to release his human film to Spain, Mexico and in a moment, when he returns to the country, he doesn ' t say look, he tells the truth. It' s not gonna be a short one, I already have the funds. It will be transformed into my second film and thus witness of another world, which is the film that relates John' s life, the case. Actually, life is ju Oscar Pérez, because the Omni case becomes an event in a person' s life. How an extraordinary event can change a life, a person' s life and from another world' s witness, well, the case is popular throughout the world. History Channe also appears. Well, a whole series of issues. I John, I end up with John, having a friendship to this day, We have a relationship of friends. Today very good person,

1:29:47 very good yes total and tremendous observational power you have good. I do three regressions to Juan. Three regressions. The first one looks a bit of ten minutes as a witness of another world, but that regression lasted an hour fifteen. There is a second regression in one- eyed deer and there is a third regression that was commented but did not come to light. There' s a fragment turning around. That' s why I once shared with a researcher that this third regression John relates a real experience of adduction. And when I say" adduction," it' s because he' s forced. But the most interesting thing about that abduction, and whenever you want, I can share that stuff with you. I don' t have a problem. That ' s what I mean. I have four book projects that I don' t know when I' m going to write it maybe in ten years' time you' ll see the light that the second part of John' s book, which is called in the fog, which is all that happened next.

1:30:58 This is part of what happened next, as well as other meetings. But you know it' s the most fascinating thing about that recording. The most fascinating thing is that in a moment I begin to ask Juan questions and he begins to answer me with a sound that makes with glottis. It doesn ' t open your mouth and the impression of filming that I can get to you. Filming is like I ask you. He translates it into that sound and then the answer comes to me in that sound. That was shared with a person named Czech Herlaf, who shared it without saying what. It was two Morse code specialists and the two people identified that as Mors code. Obviously we translated it. You don' t say, there' s nothing you can understand as something a message, but it' s awesome to see the recording as that sound I make answers the question I ask you. Czech Jarola te lit a small video that is called communicate in Morse gives several examples.

1:32:17 There' s the recording. I' m gonna catch up with you because it' s awesome that John lived. John continued to live things because it is very long. Let' s say so I can tell you everything that happened next. But, for example, for a time colored orbs appeared in the house, even in the room. Even a blue orb went to the father' s room and the father woke him up. The father wakes up from the luminosity of that oroe and continued to have precisely this type of encounter. It is a fantastic case, because dead beings also appear, this of the taita the word taita is father. When that comes out in a regression, when I ask you, I tell you in the second regression. In the first one he sees Grandpa, in the second regression he interacts with Grandpa and I tell him to ask Grandpa who these beings are and through Grandpa they tell him they are the Taitas my children. That' s what he says and he' s in regression. The Taitas the word taita or the word tata is father, that is in fact the meaning tata is father. The Taitas would be the parents then, as if they were the spirits, the

1:33:50 spirits of their antido exactly missed him. They stood in this life for different things. That' s why. Therefore, John is the perfect example of omnis cases mixed with this question of shamanic initiation. That is, in fact, John begins to see from the experience in dreams, he has premonitory dreams that until we could make that film in the two thousand sixteen, that John could travel a Guaraní community, he did not encourage himself to experience those dreams. And then he lives them to those dreams. And not only that, but there' s a testimony I could corroborate with John' s family.

1:34:40 I also know Juan' s family, with the sister who, from a premonitory dream, saves the sister from a robbery. I mean, why, because he sees that they' re stealing his house. There' s the door open in the house and you see the sister' s watch and you see that the clock is around 12 noon that was going to pass that the next day. Then you call them. He calls them, he calls us. The sister called her, called us. In the end the keys and look. I am this they will rob you because after the dream sees that the sister arrives at the house of all scrambled that have stolen her, grabs her some kind of heart attack and ends up in a hospital. That' s what Juan dreams. The next day, he' s talking to one of the sisters. The sister says I can' t move, I can ' t go. She tells the other sister. The other sister' s going to the house. There are twelve down to four, and by the time he arrives, there were two people trying to sweep, that is, putting in an iron to pull out the gate and enter the house. Such is so these. This event happened on July 8th, juanes' birthday on July 9th and what I was just saying about another day brought me a big cake because I had prevented the theft and when I broke that time sequence notice, this is interesting. And there we go into quantum and we' re on the subject of collapse a lot of issues, because John sees what would

1:36:16 have happened. If he was robbed, the sister ended up interning. When she cuts off the event from when she warns and does not produce, the sister does not end up inside, she ends up giving her a cake, that is, and that also involves many more things, because there is one thing that is called about the effect of Butterfly wings, maybe the life of a simple man of the pampa, who changes his life because that type of entities tell him that things are going to happen, it makes change the history of much of Argentina' s pampa and this of humanity. And that' s what we don' t know and everything we' re in. Also, investigating the omnic phenomenon and now they can insult me Juan Juange Vallejo, or wherever they want. Many times we thought if we were convinced that we really were doing what we were doing. This says a lot Jjo Benítez, and there if I agree with him, there is like a kind of invisible hand, that is behind, that moves the threads and that makes you go here, that way you count or suddenly we become as has happened with this program in Latin America that I do not believe nor I, because it happened then. This has many more implications that escape us, okay they escape us.

1:37:36 But really what we' re in contact with is another reality. The OMNIC phenomenon falls into the curtains and shows us a fascinating reality that has historical implications and today and as much as they want or do not want. And such will remain present for millennia as long as we are here on planet Earth in Fin Nestor, Berlanda. You can' t imagine how happy this interview made me. By the way, a curious detail about Juan Oscar Pérez. I was with him and I have a collection of knives taken me out here. It' s on TV in Colombia, from the collection I have of knife from all over the world. He gave me his gaucho knife. I ' ve got it right here. I have it here in the house the lord who is a love. His story is completely real. They have been investigating, they were there these characters like Jack Ballet, the astrophysicist who is known worldwide and on which is based the character even of the movie Encounters of the Third Kind, Encounters in the Third Phase, as it was called in Spain. So, anyway, a lot of tremendous implications. Nestor Berlanda, well, first recommend your books that I' m going to repeat again the name of them. One of them, the strangers, you have it again, in Amazon Latin America, that is, if you are in Latin America, you put it in Spain, easier, but there are Amazon the strangers and the other behind the fog the real story, of an extraordinary encounter, those two books and that when you read to me the strangers, I will

1:39:08 again annoy Nestor berlandáz Friend your conclusion and your closing to finish the interview. Well, as you say, I basically started when I was 13. I ' m sixty- one, almost fifty years old, investigating the mystery, going around the world. Luckily, behind these things, today I have no doubt that things are. As you say, this is a reality. It comes with us from time immemorial and things happen and one is attentive. As I said yesterday in an interview with Fernando Hilder Bravo, there are miguitas that are leaving us, as in the story of Ansel and Grette. If we follow those little friends. We' re gonna find everything in the house.

1:39:57 The theme is to stay in the friend and not to be confused on the way. But, of course, everything that we are in this somewhere we go and many times they take us just because they put the crumbs on us. This is the unknown place that I think has to do with the nature of humanity and the future of humanity. So we' ll see. I ' m convinced and if you' ve become the investigator of certain cases that cause consciences to be removed and we think about this in a different way, it' s no coincidence either. Nestor Berlanda a strong, strong hug and thank you so much for this interview. You also greet your audience very much and thank you for allowing me this spectacular interview. I take that reflection from Nestor Berlanda, when you say we have some crumbs, we are seeing part of a reality that we do not understand. Why don' t we see the whole of reality. And I thought that was magnificent. And other things about the case of Juan Oscard Pérez, which I repeat you have a podcast.

1:41:02 I' d say I put another world' s witness to that po here in the mystery night playlist is also in part of that hidden interview behind the shadow on my YouTube channel. And another of the things I' m not curious about that abduction comes that omni experience of Juan Pérez. Then he has an abduction with Oscar Perez and there appear those tattoos that he calls. His grandfather appears to him, tells him about his ancestors and, suddenly, because he begins to have premonitory dreams that are also fulfilled. It' s like it' s a phenomenon, it' s so complex and at the same time I don' t know. It' s like they give you a cake, they tell you to be sober that the world you see isn ' t reality. Not then it' s like very heavy joange To me I think that what went without this interview, apart from the experience, the expertise and the scientific analysis in this Berlanda, is that I would dare to say that the great topic that we address beyond abductions, is the nature of reality. How to try to determine it from the point of view of science, How this nature of reality is redeemed with the experiences of abductions, with the shamanic experiences that would be in a certain way, related note that you also commented in the interview Juange that, for example, our great friend Maego

1:42:34 Martínez a hug for her. In his book I got a near- death experience that would be very, very related or closely related to the archetypal figure of gres are the big head of the eyes. Huge and curious, not, as Nestor Bernanda said, that such a figure could mean in Antiquity what they see beyond the darkness by that type of eyes. And so, then it' s a phenomenon I' ve never understood and every day it fascinates me more now. Of course, the fact that a ship from another world comes here stands in the field and so and that this is much more complex.

1:43:15 Definitely the most complex cho, which is much more complex, Friend, your conclusion of your closing. Reitero, Juan Ge, a wonderful interview where we could analyze how we have to ana, as we have to glimpse in this case, the limits of reality, the nature of it as science. He is becoming more and more involved in making an analysis of this kind of very interesting topics. Juan Ge, I really hope you enjoyed this podcast and you can follow me on social media, on Twitter, Instagram and tiktok in three alebernal arroba with doubles. It is curious in ancient times, as shamans and ancient priests sought experience in which to see beyond and speak with angels and demons And it is curious how the experiences of these priests and these shamans have to do and are in a tremendous way similar to these abdutions, because suddenly he was abducted. What enters is a magical world, an unreal world, where the impossible becomes possible, where, for example, they can advance to the future, where they see their ancestors and where they see other dimensions that come to this and challenge us in a challenge that pushes us to see the world and the multiverse in which we are with other eyes And never forget that we live in a magical world, because it is full of mystery