Defining your own career: Entrepreneurship when you live with a disability (with Raimy-Rose Lewis)

[00:00:04] Bronwyn: Hey, mental workers. You're listening to the Mental Work podcast, the podcast about working in mental health for early career mental health workers. I'm your host, Bronwyn and today we are talking about entrepreneurship and disability.

For many people living with a disability or chronic illness, traditional work environments are not built to accommodate their needs. This can lead to feelings of frustration, burnout, and exclusion from the workforce altogether. But what if entrepreneurship offered an alternative path? One where flexibility and self-advocacy are at the core.

In this episode, we're exploring the intersection of disability and self-employment, the challenges of managing a business while navigating chronic illness and what inclusive workspaces could look like.

Here to help us out is our fabulous guest, Raimy Lewis. Hi, Raimy.

[00:00:51] Raimy-Rose: Hi, how you going?

[00:00:52] Bronwyn: Yeah, good. Thank you. How are you doing?

[00:00:55] Raimy-Rose: I am good. I'm good.

[00:00:57] Bronwyn: Excellent. It's such a pleasure to have you on the podcast today. Could you please tell listeners who you are and what your non-work passion is?

[00:01:04] Raimy-Rose: Yeah. So as you said, my name is Raimy. I am a disability advocate, personal trainer, specializing in Hyper Mobility and EDS. Um, and I also have a podcast as well called Sick of It.

[00:01:17] Bronwyn: Excellent. And oh, yes, please keep going.

[00:01:20] Raimy-Rose: Yeah, the non-work passion. Um, probably TV and movies. I watch a lot, a lot of TV and movies.

[00:01:27] Bronwyn: Do you have a genre or is there something that's grabbing your attention right now?

[00:01:31] Raimy-Rose: Um, movies. Favorite genre is horror, um, tv. Oh, there's a lot of good shows out at the moment. White Lotus, The Pit Severance, there's just so many good ones out.

[00:01:45] Bronwyn: Yeah, there are. I literally just finished severance, so Severance was my deep dive TV show right now. And then I was like, oh, I should go to White Lotus. But then I was like, do I have the time? Maybe not.

[00:01:55] Raimy-Rose: It's worth it.

[00:01:56] Bronwyn: It's worth it. Ah, I'll have to get into it. Um, thanks for sharing that with us. So how did you come to be interested in entrepreneurship? You said you're a personal trainer and you specialize in particular areas. What led you to pursuing this path?

[00:02:11] Raimy-Rose: Um, I think I've always liked the idea of working for myself, but as I went along, I, you know, my background was in marketing and media communication, social media and everything like that, and as I went along, I realized just how unsustainable working in a traditional workplace was gonna be, and that probably the most I'd be able to do is part-time. And that's not really the ideal forever, like in this economy. You know, most people can't really get by working on part-time.

Um, so I think I always liked the idea of working for myself, but then at the same time, I was kind of pushed into it by having a disability, by having Hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome. And I had struggled a lot to get into fitness. I was never like a sporty person or anything like that. And I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to work out because every time I would, I would get injured within like two weeks. Ankles, tearing stuff, pain.

Um, and I tried a bunch of different things, and eventually I found pole dancing and aerials and I really loved it. And that kind of made me want to get into fitness more particularly because I did not have any upper body strength.

But as I said, it was difficult. It was difficult going to a gym and not injuring myself. So then I kind of slowly learned how to exercise with hypermobility and EDS, and I was like, why don't I just do this? Because there's so many PTs out there that don't have this knowledge, and it's not that common in the fitness industry. Um, I remember when I went to a PT, um, and there, there was nothing wrong with them, but I literally felt like I was gonna throw up at the end of the session and like that, when you have chronic fatigue, when you have energy issues, that doesn't help. Like you leave the session feeling worse and you're gonna feel worse for like days and days. Whereas exercise should give you energy and it should make your life better, not be hurting you. So I decided just to do it myself.

[00:04:28] Bronwyn: Yeah. Wow. And just for listeners who don't know what EDS is, so Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, could you just give us an overview of what that is, and it sounds like it. It has implications for exercise as well.

[00:04:40] Raimy-Rose: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So it's a connective tissue disorder. It's genetic. Um, it's where connective tissue like collagen for example, is, I don't know, I always just say it doesn't work properly. It doesn't work like it's supposed to. Um, and there's 13 different types. The hypermobile type is the most common. But because that connected tissue like collagen is everywhere through your body, like literally everywhere, it can affect pretty much any part of your body.

So as far as exercise goes, things like dislocating, joints slipping out, um, the higher mobility, having a larger range of motion than you should, uh, so overextending, you are easily injured, harder to heal. And then there's a lot of other stuff that comes with it as well, like digestive issues, migraines, chronic fatigue, um, more likely to have mental health issues. And then like even things like organ failures, like heart problems, like literally just anything.

Um, but yeah, particularly for exercise, exercise can do a lot of harm, but it's also one of the best like medicines for it because your joints are so unstable, by strengthening those muscles you offer support. But for a lot of people, they go and they do exercise and it just makes them feel worse, or they just end up dislocating or tearing something.

[00:06:09] Bronwyn: So it sounds like you really need a specific way of exercising, like perhaps the traditional ways of, I guess, pushing someone to their limits and you do 50 burpees and 50 pushups, et cetera, might not work for a person with EDS.

[00:06:24] Raimy-Rose: No, definitely. And um, I think one of the biggest problems is also a lot of people struggle to get a diagnosis, so it's considered a rare disorder, but it's more likely that it's just undiagnosed and not rare. Um, so not knowing the signs to look for. Um, I've already, even with just in a few months of doing a PT, I'd picked up like two people, I'm like, you're definitely hyper mobile and you, I think you might have EDS. Um, and you need to know how to pick up on that. But yeah, if you are exercising the same way it can cause a lot of damage, like going too hard, too quick, pushing too hard, uh, not doing activation exercises before the main workout. And even the things like stretching, like stretching is not recommended for people with hypermobility.

[00:07:12] Bronwyn: Ah, interesting.

[00:07:14] Raimy-Rose: So if a PT is doing stretching at the end of the workout, it might actually make them feel worse. But yeah, it's just little things like that.

[00:07:24] Bronwyn: Yeah. So you worked out through your own personal experiences, how to make exercise work for you, it sounds like.

[00:07:30] Raimy-Rose: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:31] Bronwyn: And then it's like, okay, I, I know now how to help myself with exercise and I guess it sounds like you found a lot of like pleasure and enjoyment in exercise. Like it sounds like Pole and Ariel were a lot of fun for you as well.

[00:07:43] Raimy-Rose: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I mean, I, I always encourage anyone, whether you have EDS or not, to find the part of exercise that you enjoy, 'cause that's why you're gonna stick at it. If you find exercise to be torture, you're not gonna stick with it. But also like, just the benefits of exercise. I mean, just for anyone. Yeah, like everyone gets mass benefits from exercise, but particularly with that hypermobility, you really need to build that strength. There's a lot of issues that people have; pain dislocations, tearing, ankles rolling, and a lot of them I'm like, okay, well you need to be doing strength training. That's what's gonna fix that, or that's what's gonna help that.

[00:08:23] Bronwyn: Could you just clarify for us, what, what field were you working in before you did PT? I guess I'm interested, it's like how did you, how did you get into PT? Like what study did you do?

[00:08:33] Raimy-Rose: Um, well, so I've done all my, uh, certificates in PT now, miser three set four. I've done my nutrition. I'm doing my women's certificate training, but before then I have a Bachelor's in media and communications.

[00:08:46] Bronwyn: You did say, you did say, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So it's a, it's a field shift. Like, was that scary for you?

[00:08:52] Raimy-Rose: Uh, no, 'cause I had done it quite a few times. I've had a lot of jo-, I've had a lot of jobs since I, um, since I graduated uni. Um, and yeah, I worked all over business marketing, social media, content writing, office admin, and I initially tried to actually transition to teaching, uh, because I wanted to do fitness, but I was like, you know, I'm not... what you think, like I don't look or seem like what you think of when you think of a personal trainer. So I kind of got scared and was like, no, I'll just do teaching. But then I dropped out because I didn't actually want to do that.

And then I was like, no, I'm going to do fitness. So I mean, I was already starting from scratch or I'd already left business and marketing, anything like that. So not really, but it's always, um. you know, interesting jumping back, you have to start from square one and build everything back up again. It's a lot of work, but I've done it a couple times, so.

[00:09:53] Bronwyn: Okay. Wow. Yeah. 'cause it is a lot of work. Like having started my own business myself, yeah, I know how hard it is to, to build up a business. Is it pure self-confidence and pure backing yourself or are there supports along the way that helped you?

[00:10:08] Raimy-Rose: Um, I think it's mostly just me. I mean, I definitely have like some supports, but I've always just been quite independent and if I have an idea and I think it's decent, I just do it. And then there's just no room for shame or self doubt. If you're trying, like if you're trying to build a business, you have to go like 100% in, otherwise it's just not gonna work.

[00:10:31] Bronwyn: Totally. Absolutely. I picked up earlier when you said, I think you said I might not look like PTs? And I just wondered like how you overcame that as well, that maybe that self-limiting belief.

[00:10:46] Raimy-Rose: I mean, I'm still like overcoming it, but I think, you know, like I'm like a size 16. I'm not, you know, I don't look like a typical personal trainer or what you think of typically, but I think the industry itself has changed, um, and is shifting. Um, you know, you don't have to be like a size six to be a personal trainer. And I think just because you don't look a certain way does not mean you don't have the knowledge to help people. Um, and specifically I think what I am specializing in, you know, I don't think you have to look a certain way to do that either. I mean, I'm definitely still like, you know, dealing with it, but I just, as I said, like I think you just kind of have to be like, okay, I don't have time to worry about this. I've just got to do it, and put the shame and the pride away.

[00:11:38] Bronwyn: No, I think that's really admirable and I respect you saying that, like you're still working through it as well, because it might not be something overnight where you're like, whatever. Like, fuck the patriarchy, I'm gonna look how I look.

[00:11:48] Raimy-Rose: Yeah.

[00:11:49] Bronwyn: Um, so yeah, it is a, it is a process.

[00:11:53] Raimy-Rose: Yeah. And I think it's good as well. Like you can always jump on social media, jump on TikTok and you'll find, you know, other midsize, other plus size PTs, um, and they're doing like amazing things and I think that's always helpful as well.

[00:12:08] Bronwyn: Yeah, absolutely. It's, I've, I've been interested in exercise for ages. I have ADHD and it's just one of my core ways that I look after myself, and I used to be a group fitness fanatic, and so I used to go to all the group fitness classes and I was delighted when I saw people of different sizes and shapes, and it's like your size and shape does not, you know, if you are a slimmer person, it does not have any bearing on whether you can successfully take somebody through a class, like you're not automatically more qualified.

[00:12:35] Raimy-Rose: Yeah. Yeah. Your fitness level is not determined by your size. And I, I think when I first started, I was a little worried. I was like, oh, when I turn up to interviews, what are people gonna say? Like, they're gonna look at me. Um, but I didn't have. Any of that. If anything, this is like probably the first industry where me saying I have a disability has been like encouraged and supported. Like if anything, it's given me an advantage in getting jobs and working in the fitness industry, which has been really good.

So yeah, no one's really battered an eye at either of those things like they are encouraging diversity and when they're hiring PTs, they don't want five PTs who are all exactly the same. They want like different PTs. They want diversity.

[00:13:23] Bronwyn: That's really awesome because one of the questions I wanted to ask you was about misconceptions about disability and in this space in particular in PT, and it sounds like that is a misconception that people might have, that you might get rejected because you have a disability, but your experience has been the opposite.

[00:13:38] Raimy-Rose: Yeah, and I can't speak for people who like, 'cause I have an invisible disability, so I can't speak for people who don't have an invisible disability, who have a visible one. I don't know if the reaction would be different. But for me, um, yeah, it's actually been very accepted and I think more people have like, talked to me or offered me interviews or offered me jobs because of that thing that I, 'cause I offer something different from other PTs.

[00:14:09] Bronwyn: Yeah, absolutely. And thanks for pointing out, yeah, the distinction between invisible, invisible disability because there may be different experiences for different people. Yeah, Are there any other misconceptions that you reckon people have about entrepreneurship or disability and I guess the interaction between them?

[00:14:25] Raimy-Rose: I think probably, I guess what a lot of people like able-bodied people don't realize is that for most people with a disability, entrepreneurship is something that they have to do. Like, you know, I, I said for me, like I've always wanted to work for myself... But I don't know if I would've chosen this path if I didn't have a disability, 'cause it's, it's, it's a hard path to go down and there's a lot of people with disabilities who can't even work part-time or can't have any sort of regular job. And for them, that's their only option is to work for themselves. That's the only job that's going to give them that flexibility to actually work and make an income. So for some of them, I don't even know if they like it, they, they're just honestly, might not have any other choice.

[00:15:13] Bronwyn: Yeah, it's a really good point because usually when people hear entrepreneurship, they're like, oh, wow, what a go-getter. And it's, and you know, it's quite like, okay, you go. Um, but there might be different feelings and emotions going on for some people. They're like, I don't actually want to do this. This is what I'm forced into doing.

[00:15:29] Raimy-Rose: Yeah, because it, it is easier a lot of the time doing a traditional job. You go in, you do the hours, you do the work, you get paid. You don't have to start from earning $0 and do everything like do admin, do social media, do marketing, do like every single role. It is like an easier path to go down and for a lot of people, they probably make a lot more money. But for a lot of people with disability, they just don't have that option.

[00:16:00] Bronwyn: Yeah, and it, it can be really hard to make money as well, like running my own private practice, like finances are huge consideration and it's like, how am I gonna pay rent for the place that I'm leasing? How am I gonna pay for these expenses? How am I gonna pay for insurance? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. There's a lot of expenses that come with running your own business. And then of course, on top of that, you have to take into account sick leave, super, tax. Um, so yeah, it's a lot.

[00:16:27] Raimy-Rose: Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. It's, it's not the easiest path to go down.

[00:16:31] Bronwyn: No, um, but you're giving it a go and it seems to be working out pretty well for you.

[00:16:37] Raimy-Rose: Yeah. Going pretty well so far.

[00:16:39] Bronwyn: Yeah. That's good. Yay. And I guess bringing it back to, so you live with EDS and it sounds like that comes with a few other challenges as well. How do you navigate your health while running your business?

[00:16:52] Raimy-Rose: Um, I think it helps that my health is probably at the moment, like the best it's been. It's genetic, I was born with it, so I've had 27 years of trying to figure stuff out. Um, and as I was doing disability advocacy work, like just figuring it out, doing more research into it, um, finding specialists that can help with the individual symptoms.

So that definitely helps. But I think honestly, just the flexibility that having a business gives you is the main, like, that's why I can do it. Like, I don't know if my health would be in the same place if I was working another job, like a traditional job right now.

[00:17:34] Bronwyn: Yeah.

[00:17:34] Raimy-Rose: There's just so much flexibility. Like I call the shots, I decide my workload, everything like that. So it's a lot of work and it's actually probably like the most work I've done in a long time. But it is flexible. Like some of those things I can do on my couch, and then my schedule, I can make myself. So that means that I can work more, but be in a better health position.

[00:18:00] Bronwyn: Awesome. Yeah, it's, it's so interesting hearing you say that. The image I get in my head when you say that is of me lying on the couch in my office because that's what working for yourself allows for. It's like, you can schedule client one and then I can be like, okay, I can nap for two hours here,

[00:18:14] Raimy-Rose: yeah,

[00:18:16] Bronwyn: ...and then I have client two. Um, so it, it really does allow for that time management and I guess consideration of your own needs.

And I guess like mental health is a really huge part of managing chronic illness and self-employment as well. Like it can be quite isolating. And I just wondered, have there been any challenges, have there been any challenges for you mental health wise in running your own business?

[00:18:38] Raimy-Rose: I mean, it's just stressful, like. There, there's, there's so much stress, um, involved. I think I have a hard time switching off. My brain is like going like, all the time, constantly. Okay, gotta do this, then I gotta do this, and then I should start doing this, and then I've got to do this. And then, oh, okay, why am I I doing this wrong?

So the switching off is hard. And then, yeah, just like the stress, like if you have a bad week, you're like, oh no, this is the end. I'm, I'm done for. And the buildup is so, like, things don't just like happen overnight. You don't just, be like, oh, I'm doing thousands of dollars in a week, and then I've only been doing this a month. Like it takes time to build up. So I think it's just, it's stressful in general.

[00:19:26] Bronwyn: Yeah, I mean, just picking up on what you said there, realistic expectations for yourself. So don't expect to be bringing in like $50,000 in your first month.

[00:19:34] Raimy-Rose: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that'd be nice, but...

[00:19:36] Bronwyn: Yeah.

[00:19:37] Raimy-Rose: ...it's not happening.

[00:19:38] Bronwyn: -be cool. I mean, like it, and if you can make it work, sure go for it. But, um, most people do not. In fact, most small businesses don't even make a profit in like the first few years.

[00:19:48] Raimy-Rose: Yeah, that's what I always like, tell myself. Um, and yeah, it just, it just takes time and you just have to keep going. Like, I think, you know, like I've been posting on social media for, I don't know, like seven, eight months now. And, um, my phone's going off constantly because one of the videos I posted two days ago is almost at a million views.

[00:20:10] Bronwyn: Wow. Awesome.

[00:20:11] Raimy-Rose: But all my other videos got like 2000 views. So it's like, it just suddenly happens, like, and you, you just have to keep doing it until things start to work out. Like, yeah.

[00:20:25] Bronwyn: No, totally. So yeah, persistence, keep on doing it. And how do you manage your mental health otherwise, like you said, it was hard to switch off. Are there ways that you do help yourself with mental health and I guess managing that stress?

[00:20:39] Raimy-Rose: Yeah, I just, um, I've been like redoing a schedule. Like I just make a schedule and I've redone it like five times until I figure out what works for me the best. And I think also putting time limits on the other tasks. So when you're like doing a PT session, you know that's the time. But things like admin, social media, you could spend hours and hours and hours doing that stuff because there's always more you could do.

So I like to put time limits now. Like, okay, you spend 30 minutes on that and that's it. You spend an hour on that. Otherwise, I'm working like 50 hours doing this stuff, and it's not even stuff that I'm technically getting paid for, it's just stuff that supports the business. So that's what I found helpful is putting time limits on those things and scheduling like the days that I am doing them on.

[00:21:28] Bronwyn: Yeah. Awesome. So it's important to maintain your schedule, and I'm glad that's working for you with your mental health. I'm wondering about clients who don't understand you as a person who lives with a disability. Like I'm imagining there might be some times when you may have to cancel or reschedule sessions depending on how you're feeling and how your body is going. How, how might you manage that?

And I, and I guess I'm asking you as well, because we do have a lot of listeners who are mental health workers and they live with their own chronic illnesses or disabilities. And sometimes yeah, clients can not be understanding. How do you manage that?

[00:22:02] Raimy-Rose: Um, I think so far I've been pretty lucky, whereas I think it's only happened like once or twice so far, and it's been okay. But I guess just being like open at, from like the beginning, especially if you're working with other clients who have like chronic illnesses or disabilities, they're probably more likely to understand. But I guess just being like open from the beginning, like, you know. This is what I have, this is how it affects me. And then just putting a system in place for what happens when you have to cancel a session. Like are you giving them a free session next time? Are you giving them half off? Like what is the thing that you've put in place to kind of make up for that?

Um, and yeah, I think just communication, like from the beginning. Um, because yeah, you're not like a big business. It's like, one person. So unfortunately if you are sick, then that's it. Business is closed for the day. There's no one else to do it, so.

[00:23:05] Bronwyn: Yeah, absolutely. And setting those expectations from the start is very important. And I like how you said if you're working with a disabled population as well, they may be better understanding, which makes a lot of sense. Um, so you might be less likely to have people who I guess are irate or angry about you canceling or rescheduling. People may be understanding and you get to model it for them as well.

[00:23:31] Raimy-Rose: And I think like in business when you are, especially when we're working like a service based business, I know it's harder at the beginning, but sometimes like a client that... a difficult client is just a client. You don't want. Like, sometimes you have to say no and be like, okay, well I don't think I'm the right person for you, or, I'm sorry I can't help you. Here's someone who can. And that's really hard at the beginning because like every client is like, oh my God, you know, you're counting like clients by one. Like, oh, I've got 12 clients and I've got 10. But I think you do have to have certain like boundaries and you can say no to people.

[00:24:11] Bronwyn: Yeah, it's so true. I remember very early on when I started my own practice, I had a client come with an opportunity to do counseling for like everyone around them, sort of thing. And it was this situ- specific situation that they offered, uh, my help with. And I was talking to my supervisor and they were like, do you actually want to do this? And I was like, no, but, it would be a really good opportunity. Yeah. And they're like, probably don't do it. And I didn't do it and I'm really glad that I didn't.

[00:24:39] Raimy-Rose: Yeah. Yeah, it's hard to say no at the beginning. Um, but then you don't wanna end up like a few months on the track with a bunch of clients who are just making your life really difficult.

[00:24:50] Bronwyn: Totally. Absolutely. 100%.

So you've moved into entrepreneurship, but as we talked about earlier, some people with disability, with chronic illness, they may be at work still, and I wanted to learn from you what you thought about how workplaces could be more, I guess, inclusive or accommodating for the needs of disabled people to help them stay at work.

[00:25:17] Raimy-Rose: Yeah, I mean, I think just flexibility and it's kind of a big issue at the moment because there's certain, like Australian government parties that, ah, that want to get rid of working from home. Like, and not only does that affect disabled people, that affects women, it affects mostly just minority people. Like, it mostly just doesn't affect men.

[00:25:41] Bronwyn: Yeah.

[00:25:42] Raimy-Rose: And like that's a big- we shouldn't be moving away from flexibility. We should be moving towards it. Like working from home, like I've worked from home. It's. In when I worked an office job before, and it's such a big difference from having to work in the office. You can wake up later, you don't have to get ready. Like if you, have you heard of Spoon Theory

[00:26:05] Bronwyn: Yes, I have. Yep. But could you just tell listeners, in case listeners haven't heard of it?

[00:26:10] Raimy-Rose: Yeah, so Spoon Theory is where like someone with a chronic illness or disability only has a certain amount of spoons in a day, and they might have the same amount of spoons as a regular person, but it takes them more spoons to do something. So it might take two spoons to get up, one spoon to get ready, two spoons to go to work. So that's half your spoons. Already gone and you've only just gotten to work, and that doesn't include the workday and the rest of the day.

So if you're working from home, that's five extra spoons that you've got in energy during the day. So I think we, yeah, we need to be moving back to towards flexibility. It's a shame that working from home only happened because the majority of the population suddenly couldn't go to the office because that's something that a lot of disabled people have been asking for for a long time. So we need to move towards that.

And I think, I mean, they're talking about the four day work week. I think that's great, but why do we have such like rigid schedules for work. I under-, I know for some jobs I get it, but there's a lot of jobs where you can do your whole day of work in like four or five hours. So why we have to be there for eight, nine hours? It doesn't make any sense. I think this system itself just needs to change, and I think individual businesses don't have to go with the flow of what everyone else is doing. Like you can change things up yourself, you can make your own rules.

[00:27:43] Bronwyn: Hmm. Yeah, I am so on board with you. It's, it's just illogical to me. So I started out as a psych before COVID, so before 2020, and helping people get more work from home accommodations was one of the key things that I did with clients. Because in my mind, it was so logical. I was like, if client has one more work from Home Day, their mental health will measurably improve. They will be happier and more productive and have better wellbeing. But getting an employer to see that was next to impossible. And I was like, oh, it's such an easy solution from my perspective. Um, and it's like the work that they had, they could do at home easily. They could stay in contact with the team easily.

[00:28:23] Raimy-Rose: It just doesn't make any sense. Um, yeah, like I was trying to work from home before COVID as well, and it was like impossible to do. Like people didn't want you to work from home. Um, and it, it's like, but why? Like, I'm literally-, I had a job where, um, I just worked for someone. So it was just us, just two of us. And I would have to go into the co-working space and work, but she wouldn't be there 90% of the time, and I'm just working on my laptop, so I'm like, why am I here? Why did I travel 40 minutes to just sit on a laptop and work by myself? Why don't I just do this from home? It doesn't make any sense.

[00:29:00] Bronwyn: No. No. Yeah, and there's been lots of big studies, 'cause this is actually an area that I'm interested in, in, in, but there's been lots of big studies, I think in some, um, east Asian countries where they've looked at, one of the studies that I read was like, they offered workers the opportunity to work from home a certain number of days per week. And then if you didn't want to, then you could go into the office, which provided a great naturalistic experiment. You could see like, what's the productivity of these workers who chose to work from home versus those who chose to stay in the office.

And there was no difference in terms of productivity, but the people who chose to work from home were happier. Um, so their mental health was better. Which is like, that's a, that's a really good outcome and a really good conclusion. I feel like really good support from working from home, and I think those sorts of studies have been replicated. It's like you give people the choice and if they can work from home a little bit and come into the office like one day a week so you can have that team connection. If you need that, then people do well.

[00:29:55] Raimy-Rose: Yeah, I know even like the four day work week, like they've shown that people are more productive working less days a week, so... I don't know. They just, I don't know. They just want to keep us down. They wanna keep the rat race. I'm not sure, but like, it's just, it's not that hard. Like the researchers there, just do it. And if you don't trust your employees to do the work, then you're hiring the wrong people.

[00:30:21] Bronwyn: Totally. Absolutely. Mm. And so this would make a big difference for folks with disability, with chronic illness, like you said, a lot of other minoritized populations. Um, so yeah, it's a big deal that I guess workplaces could make a tangible difference by considering this.

[00:30:37] Raimy-Rose: Yeah.

[00:30:38] Bronwyn: So this podcast is mainly for early career mental health workers. So early career psychologists, social workers, counselors. How can they support disabled clients who wanna pursue entrepreneurship, but their clients feel a little overwhelmed by the process? How can we help them?

[00:30:53] Raimy-Rose: I mean, I think it depends on the person, but I mean, I think understanding that disability is like a full-time job in itself. And then as we said before, like this, you know, maybe they want it, maybe this is something they've always wanted to do, or maybe they just don't feel like they have another choice than to go down this way.

Um, and I think, understanding that it's gonna be really difficult because owning a business is so much work and it's so hard, and it's like climbing Mount Everest, like it's a long trek up and it's like one step at a time and then having a disability at the same time. And I think it can be really stressful because a lot of people with disabilities don't make a lot of money and they might not be making any of their own money or making very little, and they want it to speed up the process.

So I think just supporting them, helping them. I realize that it's, it's gonna take time, but that doesn't mean that they can't do it. Finding a way that works for them to work, but also manage their disability, like helping with schedules, helping with, and I think stress as well is gonna be like the big thing. I think managing your time, managing your stress, and working out how to manage running a business and having a disability at the same time.

[00:32:13] Bronwyn: Yeah, absolutely. I don't think many listeners, like people who work in this space, I was just thinking if there's people who maybe have negative perceptions of people with disability and like that they can't do it, but I would hope that people who work in this space don't have those negative perceptions.

[00:32:29] Raimy-Rose: Yeah, me too. I mean, I would hope so. Um, especially in mental health. I think if we're talking like, more GPs and doctors then? Um, unfortunately, probably yes. I think mental health is a bit of a different space and I think people with disabilities, like they're normally pretty resilient and a lot of them are their own advocates, so they're normally pretty strong and independent and used to being pushed down a lot. So I think a lot of us are like actually quite resilient and yeah, I think mental health space, I feel like everyone's, as far as I know, pretty like accommodating and positive towards people with disabilities.

[00:33:12] Bronwyn: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I guess maybe just reinforce it then that it's like if your clients are excited about a potential venture, like get excited about it as well. I've had lots of clients tell me things and they're not necessarily things that I would pursue, but they're ideas that are still really awesome. And it's like if they wanna pursue that, like go for it. Get on board.

[00:33:31] Raimy-Rose: Yeah, I think... and just being like, well, you know, just do it. Like honestly, just do it. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Most people who do entrepreneurship, who have a business have had multiple businesses that have failed or not been super successful before they have like that big business that works. Even I've, I've done it. I've done like little things aside and none of them have worked and like, this is the thing... like it takes, you know, you just do little experiments and you have ideas. I think that's one of the biggest signs of entrepreneurship is just having little ideas, and they might not work out, but you just have to keep going because then eventually you find the thing that works.

[00:34:09] Bronwyn: Exactly. Absolutely. Raimy, you have a podcast you mentioned at the start that it's called Sick of It. Could you just tell us what it's about?

[00:34:17] Raimy-Rose: Yeah. So sick of it is a, I say, a life and disability podcast. So it's just all things disability. So we have guests on, um, talk about different disabilities. We'll talk about different issues like entrepreneurship. Uh, we just had one talking about Lyme disease in Australia. Like it's just pretty much anything chronic illness, disability you can think of, we talk about it.

[00:34:43] Bronwyn: Awesome. And I'll make sure that I pop a link to that in the show notes. I assume it's available everywhere that you listen to podcasts, like you can get Spotify and everywhere else. Excellent. Okay. And last thing, what do you hope listeners will take away from our conversation today? What do you wanna leave them with?

[00:34:57] Raimy-Rose: I hope that able-bodied people kind of realize the relationship between entrepreneurship and disability, and I hope disabled people realize that it is hard, but like you can create a successful business, and if you're thinking about it, and you're struggling, like in a traditional workplace, just give it a shot. Like what's gonna happen? You just, it's just not gonna work out. Okay, that's fine. It's not like a big deal.

[00:35:26] Bronwyn: Yeah, totally. And Raimy, if listeners wanna learn more about you or get in touch, where can they find you?

[00:35:32] Raimy-Rose: Yeah, so, um, PT is The Hypermobile PT on pretty much everything. And then personal is just Raimy-Rose or Raimy-Rose Lewis on everything. I'm pretty easy to find 'cause my name is not that common.

[00:35:47] Bronwyn: No. I mean, which is a good thing. Yeah. That's pretty awesome. Well, Raimy, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. It's been a real pleasure speaking with you and having you on and hearing your perspectives.

[00:35:57] Raimy-Rose: Thank you for having me. I've loved being on.

[00:35:59] Bronwyn: And listeners, if you found this conversation valuable, please follow The Mental Work podcast. Leave a rating and review and share this episode with a friend or colleague who might benefit from it. It really helps people find the show.

That's a wrap. Thanks for listening to Mental Work. I'm Bronwyn Milkins. Have a good one, and catch you next time. Bye.