Punching Through Barriers: Mercedas Taaffe-Cooper on Resilience, Youth Empowerment, and Counterpunch

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Living the Dream Podcast with Curveball. If you believe, you can achieve. Welcome to the Living the Dream with Curveball Podcast. A show where I interview guests that teach, motivate, and inspire. Today's guest is Mercedes Tap Cooper. She is a registered psychologist and a founder and boxing-based resilience coach that does physical activity-based training for adolescents and she trains facilitators to scale the program. She moved from competitive kickboxing and martial arts after a decade of representing Ireland and kickboxing and winning European and world titles. She noticed a gap that young people needed practical skills for emotional regulation and connection rather than just talk-based intervention. So that led her to develop a program that compares sports training, combat sports training with psychological teaching. She has 35 years of coaching and presenting. So we're going to be talking to Mercedes about Counterpunch, her program, and everything that she's up to and gonna be up to. So Mercedes, that was a mouthful. Thank you for joining me.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Thank you, Curtis. I uh appreciate the invitation.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Well, I guess you've covered quite a bit of it there with your intro, but um yeah, I'm originally Irish. I lived in Ireland for 40 years, as you mentioned. I represented Ireland in kickboxing um quite successfully, both as coach, sorry, as a participant, but then as a coach, I transitioned into coaching. Um, I did a degree in sports and exercise science. I started PhD, I did a psychology degree. Uh, as part of my PhD study, I had to do a training in a reality therapy, which is kind of like a branch of psychotherapy. And it was really, really life-changing because after doing the week in that training, I decided to um defer or or or to discontinue my PhD and go a slightly different direction. I sold up my home and I went to um moved to uh decided to move to Australia. I mean, it took about two years, but uh I did it eventually. And I did my clinical masters in Hobart, Tasmania, here in Australia. And as part of my uh thesis for that, I uh put into action what I was thinking about and what I learned in Ireland working with young people as a counsellor. Um basically combining the physical movement of I mean, with me it's martial arts and boxing because that's what I love and that's what I'm best at, but it can be any any sport really. Um combining that with a toolbox, if you like, of resilience tools based on reality therapy, based on sports science, and based on what I'd learned in my actually now I'm feeling old because it's probably over 40 years of coaching experience, um, and put them all together into what is now the counterpunch um methodology. Uh, I trialed it up in the north of Australia in Darwin under the auspices of the Northern Territory Government, and we had a two-year trial with the Menzies School of Health research, which kind of first of all validated what we were doing, but also gave recommendations and how we could replicate it and scale it, uh, including coming up with obviously a resource pack, a resilience curriculum handouts. And for the last uh 16 years now, I've been creating, running, and trialing it here in South Australia in the beautiful Adelaide Hills where I'm now based. And about six years ago, we uh trained our very first facilitator, Damien, who has been replicating the program and basically no psychology background but a really you know massive life experience background. But we've shown that the curriculum is replicable. Uh, it doesn't depend on me, I'm not the bottleneck. But um, and now the the other the next sort of bottleneck was the fact that people had to come here to do the training. But we are literally about to launch our online program now, where the program for facilitators is completely systemized and then offer support through uh regular Zoom weekly catch-ups and create sort of um community pockets where facilitators can support each other. But I guess my vision is to see Counterpunch available globally, you know, including the US and England and Europe and everywhere, um, because I see number one, how simple it is. It's not rocket science, how easy it is to deliver, but how effective it is. Um, as somebody coming in from a clinical psychology perspective at the other end of the scale, I just know in my heart that the key really is early intervention, where we look at the behavioral um in you know, intervention uh with kids who are not yet at a level where they need a diagnosis in vertical comments, but more so just the support to get through the normal trials and tribulations of adolescence. And the secret is like, you know, at that stage of development, kids can't um their third form of communication, if you like, is processing auditory and speaking vocabulary. Like the first thing they uh basically perceive is our tone of voice and our body language, and third really is our actual words, especially boys. So creating an environment and and a pathway to experiential learning with peer mentors and peer leaders is what we have proven over and over again to make massive, massive um impact uh in an ongoing basis and can provide support right through, you know, from 10, 11 years old all the way through to the end of high school.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Well, I know that you you know you move from elite boxing to psychology to youth work to counterpunch. So uh when did you realize that uh combat sports can be more than just physical training?

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Oh, I think I realized that very early, and I think anybody who does combat sport will will will verify that. I mean, it's so much more than just the physical sport itself. But I think the real difference, if you like, with with with combat sport is just that change in physiology when you actually like punch a bag, for example. I know that for me, how I came upon it from a counseling point of view was I was working as a youth counselor in schools, and you know, typically you used to get sent all the you know invertic commust troublemakers in the class because the teacher couldn't handle them, so they sent them to you. And you were coming in like as a casual, you know, one afternoon a week or something. I think my office was the uh music equipment storeroom, so it wasn't exactly convivial to a nice communicative atmosphere. So I was trying to figure out like how do I connect with these kids? Like they don't want to talk to me, and I get that totally. So the next time I said, Oh, I'm gonna bring in a set of pads, and I'm just gonna bring in a set of gloves and let them hit the pads. And as soon as they started to do that, like there was an instant change in body language. Like what you could spend weeks doing, building up a relationship to a point where you can communicate in a talk therapy environment, we were able to do in 10 minutes on the pads. Like it was just incredible. Um, the change, the body language, the expression, the fact that the kids were quite happy to chat away while they were hitting the pads was just it was it was just such an incredible transformation that I'm like, this this is the way we need to do it. You know, we know that boxing and martial arts clubs provide a home for so many kids and you know, it's a real pathway. But the thing is that in general, boxing clubs, martial arts clubs, you know, the focus tends to be on competitors and people who are really good at the sport. But we can still use this for the other 90% of kids who might not necessarily excel in competition, but can still get the benefits from the physicality and the process and the experience of doing the content, like the you know, the complex motor skills, the drills, the progressions, and and getting that objective progression, which is huge, you know, where you have a number, like for example, start a term here in South Australia. We did another one-minute max push-ups in 60 seconds, and from last term, they all had like nearly 100% improvement, more so if they practiced. So just teaching them the habit of doing small steps consistently and how powerful that is. Like there's so much learning within just the process of doing martial arts, boxing in particular. I guess the other thing is it's an individual sport, so you're you don't have the social challenges of relating to your teammates and feeling the peer pressure of performing for your team, takes all that out of the equation as well. Um, so yeah, I mean, I I don't know where to stop really when I when I talk about the benefits of of um combat sport. And I mean, we don't have like contact. I mean, contact is just on pads or on the bag, it's not with each other, but what we do recommend is that like for us, it's it's kind of a foundation for joining our amateur boxing club. So we've got kids that can then transition into a not pro not-for-profit boxing club where they can continue just to train and belong and be part of the group and come and support the lads that choose to compete. So it creates that ongoing pathway and environment, so they can choose to like go the competition pathway or become mentors or do both. But there's a pathway, you know, you've level one, two, become shadow mentor, mentor, senior mentor. Like my offsider at the moment, Jalen, he's about to turn 22 in December. He's been with me since he was 14, he's come right through the program, and now he himself is a facilitator. So it's um it's something where when you start, you start as a counterpunch kid, maybe shy, lacking confidence, and by the end of it, you know, the whole process of the three phases basically takes you through to a new identity.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

Well, I know most parents will never consider putting their kids in boxing or martial art. So so what are they missing when they see combat sports suggests as fighting?

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Yeah, look at it. I think probably the main reason for that is the is the perception given to them from probably professional boxing, professional MMA, and so forth. Um, and I get that totally. I think for a lot of gyms, especially like people that were considering delivering counterpunch, the key thing with counterpunch is that when you're competing with other gyms for, you know, to recruit people to your classes, you're you're competing on the basis of it being martial arts or boxing. Whereas, you know, this offers you an opportunity to market a service that parents, excuse me, wouldn't even think about as an option for mental health or mental fitness, because really the actual boxing is just the medium, it's not the end goal. It just happens to be something that incorporates all of the skills base and the physical challenges that allow you to progress through the program. But as I mentioned at the start, during the actual program, there's no actual punching each other or contact with each other. It's all about just challenging yourself. Um, but as part of a group and having that belonging and that group environment and that fun sort of medium. So I guess from a parent's point of view, I would say, well, there is no contact, they're just learning discipline, they're getting fit, they're they're giving themselves a challenge where they're pushing out of their comfort zone, but in a safe way, um, and allowing themselves to get to an X level. But for you know, for gym owners, it sort of allows them to advertise on the ask, you know, parents that would never consider their kid joining a martial arts club. You know, they could look at counterpunch and go, well, actually, this is a medium for my child to develop resilience and life skills. Um, you know, I don't know about America, but here there's like a two-weight two-year wait list to see a psychologist, which, in my opinion, as a psychologist, doesn't actually work for adolescents in terms of talk therapy, especially for boys. I know from having done both that counterpunch is way more effective. So, I mean, one of my parents described counterpunch as having a third parent who can teach my child things that I as a parent can't teach them.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Well, why do you think a combat gym is such a powerful environment for adolescents? Confidence, resilience, and emotional regulation.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

I think the nature of the medium means that there's progression. And when you're an adolescent, like the biggest need that's driving adolescent behavior is well, there are two. One is the need to belong, and every martial arts gym and boxing club I've ever been a part of is like a family. So it does give you that sense of belonging without a doubt. Like I've never met a martial arts coach or a boxing coach who's not passionate about what they do and who doesn't um who doesn't want to see their participants get better in life as well as in the sport itself, and two, their power need, which is not power over, but just their need to have intrinsic satisfaction and to feel good at something, feel competent. And the nature of the progression through the skill base of boxing and martial arts means like if you take martial arts, the different belt levels give you different stages, different steps to progress. It's almost like a built-in scaffolding, if you like. So kids have something to aim for, but not something that's so far out of reach that they fail and go back below where they started. It gives them that sort of gradual stepping stone to get out of the comfort zone to find their new then, because as you know, Curtis, I'm sure all the good stuff really happens outside the comfort zone. And at the moment, a lot of kids are very, very happy to sort of sit within the comfort zone and unfortunately just kind of exist. I I use the I don't know if you've heard of Peter Sage, Michael Beckwith, but I kind of use when we talk about the progressions. I mean, we talk a lot in sports psychology parlance about progression from external control to internal control. Peter Sage referred to that as like the to me to buy me consciousness. And from you know, the to me is allowing the world to happen to me and like opting out and feeling I have no control over what happens and I just have to go with the flow. Uh, otherwise known as victim mode. Whereas the buy me is learning that actually, you know what, if I set an intention for the day, if I get up and do my push-ups and take control of one thing before I go to school to an environment where maybe I don't get to choose a lot, then I can set the tone and the frequency for the day and start to see how I can get better at just being me.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Well, what is the difference between teaching a teenager boxing technique versus using boxing as a medium to teaching life skills?

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Well, I mean, there's no difference in terms of the teaching because we do teach the skills of like basically introductory boxing. So if you're looking at the first program over 24 weeks, you're teaching them the basics of stance and movement and the basic punches, but you're also kind of, you know, gradually as you go through the program relating it across two life skills. Because the key thing here is if the boxing is in the child's or adolescent's value world, they're going to perceive and hear what you're saying. Because the key thing here is that when you're an adolescent, your stage of development is such that your frontal cortex is not fully developed at all. Whereas your emotional center, your amygdala, is fully developed. So you can feel emotions fully. And sometimes you you feel those emotions, and it's very confusing because you can't logically tell where they're coming from or what the reason is. So when they have something to channel those extra emotions and learn how one of the tools we teach is increase the gap. So if they're learning the skill and they feel overwhelmed, you know, we teach them how they can sort of bring it back down to the first step and increase the gap and offset that flood of cortisol and change it to dopamine. So they feel good, they feel challenged, but in a good way rather than overwhelmed. Um, another example might be it's one I use often in class, but if you get a kid, for example, who's been bullied at school, and every time this kid meets him in the corridor and bumps into him, and you know, your your client turns around and has a crack or whatever, ends up getting suspended, blah, blah, blah. And this happens on a repeated basis. And then you go into a boxing technique where let's say you're learning how to slip a jab or throw a jab. Every time you throw the jab, you're getting caught over the top with a right hand or rear hand, and you're going, okay, so when you do it that way, you keep getting caught. What do we need to do to change that? And they go, Well, I guess I need to like uh bring my hand back higher or change my offense or you know, use a different defense. I was like, Yeah, so you need to change what you're doing to get a different result. So every time, you know, Patty bumps into you in the corridor and you you have a crack back, what do you reckon you need to do? And then they sort of go, oh, like when you relate it to something that's in their value world and you show them why they might need to choose a different response when it's something in their value world, it's like a light bulb moment, you know, and then they can relate it across to the life experience thing and go, oh, I see now. So I think the key with the boxing or the medium is that it's easy to get combat sport into a young person's value world, and then you can use that as the as the sort of carrot, if you like, to get it across to the life skills and the life experience stuff. But at the same time, you're providing that pathway all the way through high school for them to progress and excel or become mentors or be leaders, or you're giving them a pathway to meet the power need all through the program.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Well, you have said that counterpunch is not just for kids at risk, but all adolescents. So why is that distinction so important?

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Um, I think basically, as I mentioned right at the start, if we teach these life skills to kids before there's a problem, then there won't be a problem. I mean, in my experience working in clinical and working in remote areas, you know, there's lots of services for, you know, high-end kids who are further down the path. But, you know, one principal that I worked with in Darwin described it as, you know, what about the kid that's hanging out in the back of the class? He's just swinging back on the chair, he's not causing any hassle, he's not creating attention from the teacher, but he's just not engaged. You know, those are the kids that fall through the cracks. Because my funding, or you know, the the funding where I initially piloted counterpunch actually came through suicide prevention, so mental health. And at the time, Northern Territory in Ireland, which I'm from, obviously, per capita had the highest rate of youth suicide in the world. You know, this was like 15 years ago. I don't know what the story is now, but it's still way too high. And you know, the the the key thing there is, right, less than 2% of those kids were even in the health system. So literally they weren't they had fallen through the cracks. Nobody was actually dealing with what they needed. And you can't you can't teach people to deal with suicide. You've got to just give kids the toolbox to deal with life, to problem solve, so that it never becomes something they feel the need to try.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Well, what kind of teenagers do you feel that can benefit from this structured gym environment, especially those who don't seem like natural athletes?

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Look at 90% of the kids I have aren't natural athletes. Uh, every kid. The only requirement requ that you need to do counterpunch is a capacity and a desire to participate in physical activity. That's it. They just have to want to have a crack at it and not be afraid to work up a sweat. I mean, for our facilitators, we don't target. Argue kids with a diagnosis, but for me as a psychologist, I just the universe has sent probably 50% of my kids are on the spectrum, which I don't even see as a disability. Like our leading boxer at the moment, his name's James. He came to me at 10 and a half years old with a level two diagnosis of AST. He has trained consistently. He couldn't throw two punches together when he started. And that's honest. He'll tell you that himself. His dad had to be in the room because he was prone to having meltdowns and sort of going, I want to go home, I can't do this. And literally eight years later, the this this young man has signed himself off NDIS funding three years ago. He's like, I don't need it anymore. I get everything I need from the club. He started university, he's a film student. He's working and he's driving his own car and he's a fully operational member, and he's the fittest kid in the the um the group. Um never have to get on to James about making weight. Like he's just got so much determination and skill. And you know, being honest, probably an average level of skill, but like from where he started, he's got an absolute incredible progression of skill. So I guess I'm just using James as an example. Like, if that was a medical sort of thing, he'd be the subject of you know, medical journals, because most people on NDIS, I mean, it was originally sorry, NDIS means the national disability insurance scheme here in Australia. I'm not sure what the equivalent is in America, but it's where kids get support from the government, like funding to do things. And um, you know, most people, most kids are meant to get that as a as a as a support measure through the key adolescent years or whatever, not forever and ever. And James has proof that that is the case, but in most cases, it's like most of them, most of the NDIS clients are on it for life. Do you know what I mean? So it just shows that it can be changed in the right environment where you empower kids, give them challenge, give them experiential learning, and give them a peer environment where they feel safe and comfortable to be themselves and understand that they don't have any kind of disability, they just have a different way of learning, which honestly, in James's case, is actually a super skill, a superpower. Um, so we don't focus on any problem solving as such in terms of like focus on a problem. I mean, that's why I got away from the whole medical model of psychology, because the whole thing is diagnose a problem and see how you can fix it. So if

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SPEAKER_01 26:28

you've got a kid coming in talking about the problems over and over and over, even if they didn't believe they had a problem, by the time they've repeated it a hundred times, they're convinced of it. You know, what we like to do is focus on what we can create and what the genius zone is and how we can really establish and build on that, as opposed to like constantly focusing on what is perceived by society as a problem.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Well, how can gym owners reach parents who are not looking for a combat class, but they're looking for resilience, confident, and positive role model for their kids?

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Yeah, well, basically within our um systemized program,

(Cont.) Punching Through Barriers: Mercedas Taaffe-Cooper on Resilience, Youth Empowerment, and Counterpunch

SPEAKER_01 27:06

our online program for facilitators that we're just about to launch, we've got a series of packs where they can, you know, email information and so forth, where they can talk about the program, talk about what the program does, they have their descriptions and explain basically how counterpunch works. It's all within the system and all something that we provide. We even provide a marketing folder for them to be able to approach schools, etc., and explain how it works. I mean, most parents are very open to it, especially if you reassure them that there's no contact involved during the program. Um, most of their kids will want to do it, and parents are crying out for support. Like, you know, back in my day, I don't know, I'm 61 now. When I grew up, I was very lucky. I had a full-time mom at home, but now most parents are working, both of them. So kids have to be more self-reliant and any support that's you know there for parents, they're very, very happy to jump on board and have it. And apart from anything else, it costs a hell of a lot less than you know going to visit a psychologist. And it works, it absolutely works.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Well, I know many youth programs run for a few weeks and they disappear.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

So what's exactly, exactly. Yeah, so you're so right, Curtis, because that sorry, um, that that is the reason why I want to get combat coaches and people who have a venue because I want the kids to be able to have that ongoing belonging and that ongoing place to go. I mean, when I was in the Northern Territory, there was mention of using counterpunch and going out to country and running the program for six months and then leaving. And I wasn't, I mean, there's no point doing that because the kids are just starting to build a relationship, build trust, and then what, and gone. It's it's no good. It needs to be something that's ongoing, you know. And when you have the club and we provide all those pathways, like most of our kids that come don't want to leave. Like we have kids that come 9, 10, and they come right through till year 12 in high school, and each year they're progressing and learning and mentoring, becoming leaders and feeling more and more like they belong. I just had, you know, Jalen the killer mentioned, another lad who's a mentor, Squizzy, he's 18. I just had the two of them lead their first group, Interstate. So they took a group of four lads over to Tasmania, which is an arch flight away, led them through a camp with a boxing club over in uh Tasmania. Shout out to Luke Jackson and uh sorry, Luke Woods, and they um they had an absolute ball, they had so much bonding. The two boys did a great job. Jalen like was the leader, full responsibility. And when he came, he was the kid who left school because he was being bullied, changed schools. You know, he was just a slight kid for his age. Um, like the growth, when you see how he's progressed through, he's he's just like a living example, just one of them, of the progression from the shy kid lacking confidence or having issues that's progressed through the program to now working in the program and now like an incredible coach and facilitator himself.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

Well, speaking of that, what why do you feel like uh so many combat coaches fall into the trap of helping young people for free and what needs to change to to make that work sustainable?

SPEAKER_01 30:33

That is such a good point, Curtis. Thanks for bringing it up. I mean, I was one of them. You know, as I said, I'm a coach for 40 years. I wasn't getting paid for it for a lot of that time. I think because coaches have such a passion and love for what they do, but they haven't got enough self-worth or self-belief to actually value what they do enough to charge for it. And the thing about that is that, you know, I know so many clubs in Ireland where coaches are, you know, struggling with fees just to pay the rent on the premises or whatever. And I'm like, you know, the key thing here is you deserve to get paid, you're allowed to do what you love and get paid for it, and you're going to be so much more consistent and long-term and secure for your kids if you're earning a living and you're having a fair, you know, you're actually earning a living but still giving of yourself to the to the boxing or the program or the martial arts, you know, and you you can still do that, but with a structure like Canapunch, you've got a capacity to provide a really great service, something parents are lacking and crying out for, and still do what you love and not have to go the day job to make enough money to be able to do what you love at night.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Well, tell us about any other upcoming projects that you're working on that listeners need to be aware of.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Well, currently we're working on, we're just about we're just doing some last-minute um creation of like documents and things like that. Um, but we're about to do some testing on our uh online uh facilitator training. Um, we're putting it into a learning management system, making it like uh a point where you get everything you need on the online program, and then we can have our weekly roundtable Zoom calls. Um, I'm just looking for an inner circle of 20 suitable facilitators. It's an application process, not a sales process, because we want to get the right people. People who are number one, want to work with young people, number two, have a place to host it. Number three, have the capacity to basically deliver a very basic physical uh program. They don't have to be like super athletes or anything like that. And number four, want to do it as a business. Those are kind of the four main criteria, if you like. Um, so we're basically about to really test drive that shortly, and then we'll be doing a full launch globally. But we're just going to start here in Australia and make sure we iron out all the kinks first. The program itself will always be in person, so the facilitators will always deliver the program in person to the kids because to me that's one of the key elements is that the kids come in person and have that interaction in person. But in terms of the facilitator training, I mean, we can do that through um, like basically, I've spent a lot of years creating this program. There's like six, seven videos in each module. There's a full video library of each session being demonstrated, all the techniques or whatever. I'm not trying to teach martial arts coaches or boxing coaches how to box. You already know that. I'm just teaching them how to apply it to the toolbox that we provide within Counterpunch. I guess the other thing to mention, Curtis, is that we have three main cohorts of people we think Counterpunch is suitable for. My passion, as you probably hear my voice, is adolescence, without a doubt. That's my driving mission. But we also, like our first target audience, is going to be youth entrepreneurs, people that want to do this for a living and provide a service for the kids. But we're going to be looking at providing this to agencies and service providers as well. But we also, uh, it's also a corporate leadership program. So it's something that corporate companies and leadership groups and things can can tap into 100% as well. Because in my experience, like if we teach these kids as adolescents the tools, then when you become an adult, like having worked with clients in their 50s, what you're seeing is repeat pattern behaviors. You know, they're basically repeating the pattern that they haven't resolved from when they were adolescents, when they were kids. You know, if you see a a corporate executive have a meltdown in a meeting room, you know, it's basically a tantrum. So it's like it's not something that is just for adolescents, it's for everybody. Like it's something everybody that I've had that's a facilitator that's already doing it, and we have a number of locations already up and running, they themselves will tell you that for them the biggest transformation was actually in themselves. So the facilitator themselves experiences the transformation and then they teach it having experienced it for themselves. So every every facilitator will have a bit of a unique perspective. There's no like you've got to get an A, B, or C. That's just like it's just that growth from wherever you're at to wherever you're gonna get to, you know.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Right. Well, so people can keep up with everything that you're up to, they'll actually contact info.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Yep, so probably the best protocol initially would be our website, which is just uh counterpunch, like C-O-U-N-T-E-R-P-U-N-C-H, Counterpunch.com.au. We also have uh Counterpunch Life on sorry, Counterpunch underscore life on Instagram. We have a YouTube channel, um which is Counterpunch. I'm not quite sure the address for that one. Uh we have uh Counterpunch Australia currently is our uh Facebook page. We had Counterpunch Connectorate Communicate, but Facebook in their wisdom decided to uh take it down. I have no idea why. So we we we had a quite a large following built built up on that, but that's all good. We're doing the same thing now with Counterpunch Australia. Um, and my email is just Merck, M-E-R-C at Counterpunch.com.au, but all of the information for myself and for all of our locations, if you wanted to touch base with other facilitators, they're all on the website. There's heaps of um other podcasts, media blogs. Um there's heaps and heaps of information on the website. So I'd probably recommend that as you first put a call. If you'll also see some before and after videos of some of our facilitators, so you can see firsthand the change. There's loads of testimonials from actual uh young people that have done the program and their parents. So, you know, it it's all qualitative stuff, so you can see it all on the website.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

We'll close us out with some final thoughts, maybe if that was something I forgot to talk about that you would like to touch on any final thoughts you have for the listeners.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Um, no, actually, I think I think you've covered everything, really. Well, not everything. I mean, there's so much, but uh I guess just to to reiterate that this is not rocket science. This is something that you don't have to be a psychologist to deliver, you don't even have to be, you know, an experienced coach. It's something that we cover in the program. Really, it's just having the passion, having the facility and the capacity to do it and the desire to be consistent and to do it long term. And uh just, you know, if you're already working with youth, I think the frustration, like what you mentioned, Curtis, the idea that it's a short-term program and then they're gone, or you know, you're implementing a curriculum but there's no long-term change. I mean, that idea of experiential learning and environment, you know, that's what creates the um the environment, the experience, the physical capacity, and the the mentoring is really what leads to the change. The consistency of delivery and that sort of long-term um view is is what makes the difference, you know. But I it's not rocket science. Like you don't have to be super clever or super fit or anything like that to do it. It's just a combination of a lot of things put together that just seem to work really, really well.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

All right, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, if you're a gym owner out there listening, wanting to get this program rolling, counterpoint.com.au is the website to get it going. And uh please be sure to follow rate review, share this episode to as many people as possible. Shout out to Mercedes for creating this program and making it available for a lot of people out there. And to keep up with all things living the dream, if you haven't done so already, make sure you visit www.curveball337.com and please, please, please share the website and the show to everybody you know. Thank you for listening and supporting the show and Mercedes. Thank you for your work and all that you do, and thank you for joining me.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

Oh, thanks for having me, Curtis. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

For more information on the Living the Dream with Curveball Podcast, visit www.curveball337.com. Until next time, keep living the dream.