Worried Sick

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0:44 Denzel Washington, welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to do the same. Carol, welcome to the show. Thank you so much, really pleasure to be here. Hey, it's great to have you on this show. What I'd love for you to do? And I find that the journey, the story, the background is always so interesting for the people that are listening. What is your story? What is your background? How on earth did you get to this point that you're doing what you're doing, and also who are you in your background? Sure, I always say it's a circuitous route. It has lots of twists and turns to it, which I think most people's lives do. But currently I'll start with where I am currently in track back a little bit. Currently, I'm a consultant and I specialize in confidence and communication for executives who want who be more visible in the workplace.

1:46 How I got there was an interesting tale. So I was the daughter of a military man, and I moved around quite a bit when I was growing up, primed me for connecting to people, or learning how to connect to people. I had to figure out how to make friends with people wherever I went, and from that I became fascinated with people I just like them. And fast forward, I went to school and I got a degree in psychology and communication because I again am very interested in how we connect to ourselves and then how we connect to other people. And I came to New York City, and at first I pursued an acting career because that's where I thought I was going to land. But soon I realized that what I was very much interested in was sharing my knowledge, not playing a part in a play.

2:50 So I went to school and that's where I got the degree in psychology and communication, and then I got a master's in social work. I opened a private practice, was in private practice as a therapist for a while, and then I had the bug to be in front of people again, not as a performer, but just I liked that whole idea, and I started to go out and speak about psychological issues, stress, depression, anxiety, where it all comes from. And people started to approach me about teaching them to present, and I had never really done that before, and organically I started to build this other career of helping people communicate what they do in a more confident way. So that's the whole journey condensed.

3:45 Okay, great and great story. And so my question is, obviously you're working people in business now on how to communicate and, as you say, if there's giving talks and so forth, how to present themselves. How does that apply to the everyday individual that may not be in that level of business. Well, the way it applies is that we still need to be able to have a sense of confidence, and then a sense and an ability to be able to communicate our confidence no matter what situation that we're in maybe we're dating for the first time in a long time. We want to be able to talk about ourselves from our own personality, not anybody else's. We want to be able to share ourselves and have the confidence to do that.

4:35 Maybe you're a parent and you are involved in the PTA and you have some ideas that would make things better for your children in school. You want to be able to communicate that. Or maybe you want to get involved in your community and you have some ideas how to make your community better. You want to be able to communicate your ideas because you can have great ideas. But if you are nervous or shy, which we all are to some degree, but if you can't get the words out, if you can't get your ideas out, it's not going to help you feel like you're advocating for yourself and other people. And what percentage would you say that, at least the people you know, and in general, what percentage ofes actually hold back on what we really want to say because of that lack of confidence, you know, I.

5:28 Couldn't even give it a percentage. It's interesting. I've never been asked that before, but I would say it's situation dependent because I talk a lot when I go out and speak about confidence, that we could be confident in one area, and then we have this area, which I call our confidence kryptonite, where either it's a certain person or personality type or a situation that causes us to hold back. So I think we all have times in our life when and we can't speak up the way that we want to. If it's an ongoing problem, that's when I think it requires some introspection and some self study.

6:13 Well, and you talk about personality types, So that just triggered something for me. Do you use do you use personality types? And do you find that there are specific personality types? And by the way, I'm very familiar with the disc the advanced disc not just the general one. Do you find that different personality types kind of have a proclivity either to be able to, you know, share their thoughts and so forth, where others tend to be a little bit more shy or a little bit less confident. And does it have to do with personality? Well, it's interesting. I don't use personality types. I've never done any kind of pathology diagnosing. Even when I was a therapist, I generally sat with who was in front of me. Of course I studied it in school, but it was really like, what am I getting from this person?

7:05 And what I tell people when I coach them is there's a certain half and I'm generalizing here, but there's a certain half of the population that can say what they mean and they can jump in and express their opinion. And then there's another half of the population who require a bit more of a launching pad to get into situations where they're expressing their opinion. Now, the first group, that standard is been the one that many of us have been held to. That's the way we should all be. We should just speak up and speak out. But that's not true. This other group of people, who have many, many important things to say and great insights, need to embrace and accept that they can converse and share their opinion using a different style. And it is just as legit.

8:03 Okay, And I'm gonna I'm gonna hit this just a little bit, okay, and I don't disagree, But what what my thoughts are is, you know, you've got your extra you've got your extrovert left brain. They don't. They have no problem saying what they think. You know, it's just the way it is. I think there's a smaller percentage of that, but anyway, and then you have the left brain analytic person who you know, like the the doctors and so forth, that are just you know, really focused on things and they like to be kind of left alone and just analyze and so forth. Whereas you get over to the other side, which are the right brain, which tend to be more friendly and love to get along with people, chat chat chat, all of that. But what I find also is that they seem to be ruled by emotions a little more. And do you do you find that it's those internally emotions and even sometimes subconscious emotions, emotions that are limiting their confidence to be able to say what they want to say or what are the factors that are causing that lack of confidence in your mind?

9:13 So the ones if you're saying specifically, people who are very emotionally impulsive, that quote unquote impulsive, who either get overwhelmed emotionally when they have to share something or they are reactive in a very emotional way. Is that what you're asking about? That exactly? Yeah, and now I forgot the question. What was the question? Again? As we clarify that what. Is causing the lack of confidence in your experience? What is it that causes this lack of confidence for individuals who really want to be able to speak their mind or speak their truths, and yet they're not and they don't sure.

9:55 I have found that either it's early conditioning and messaging that if you have been told or you learned by listening that you were a certain way that who you were was not a good enough person, that tends to have people hold back. They feel that if they were to express themselves they might be shamed or blamed, and then they carry that into professional environments or into their community. So it's not just so I'm a little nervous about sharing my opinion, it's I'm afraid that if I speak my truth, I'm going to get in return fill in the blank. Whatever you received growing up, whether it was criticism or yelling or being told to be quiet, and that causes people to start to shut down and feel a deeper insecurity. Because confidence, for me, is really a self esteem issue. If you don't feel good about yourself, you're not putting yourself out in any way. And I feel like that that early messaging is what causes people to hold back.

11:11 So when you're working with a client that you can obviously see that that is occurring, how do you help them to actually get in and do that deep inner awareness and work that most of us really are in some cases are afraid to do well. I always ask a couple of questions, like, are you aware of why you're holding back? I mean, since I'm not acting as a therapist in those situations, but having the therapeutic training really really helps, and in a in a coaching situation, I'm not crossing those modalities. Coaching is coaching, therapy is therapy, though of course, of course they they don't they intersect. Yeah, I always believe that though you should know your scope of practice. If I'm a therapist now, I'm a therapist now. If I'm a coach now, I'm a coach now. But to get to your question, so I'll ask a couple of questions, are you aware if you're not? Sometimes people are aware specifically about childhood stuff.

12:17 Some people have shared with me cultural stuff because I coach people from different countries and they're aware of the cultural messaging about being seen, and then from there I really then offer strategies and techniques for them to practice, and then we talk about it, and then we practice it again, So it's what is it? And then how do we move forward with it? And then a lot of discussion of how did that feel? I felt good, I felt bad, I felt nervous, What do you think would help? So it's a lot of conversation and attunement, as you know, which is what helps people will move forward well.

13:03 And you know, as you talk about that, you talk about strategies of how to move forward and so forth. Do you really delve into that subconscious stuff? And as you then develop the strategies for them and help them to develop strategies within themselves, do you find that that tends to go away? Or have they just kind of outweighed the other part of it, or do they find that they actually find peace and let go of those internal beliefs and experiences that they had as children or otherwise over time? Certainly they do. I mean sometimes I will work with someone over a long period of time, an executive. I'll do a contract and I really see it, which is the pleasure of coaching. When you're doing when you're applying strategies.

13:53 What I think, because my whole background is I'm somatically trained. I'm a big body mind person, so I have training as a body oriented therapist and you probably have seen this as well. You can see when it clicks. You can see when someone just relaxes or lights up, and you can also see when there is that I don't want to go any further. I don't want to go any further here, so we don't. That'll be for another session. I'll take them to that point and then move on from there. But I have seen people their face opens up, their posture changes, and then because I record sessions, if it's a presentation session, I record sessions. I then say, look at this, how you felt about yourself on the inside is actually not what's being reflected on the outside.

14:55 That's also a great tool for them. Wow. Wow, So you talk about the body mind relationship and the body mind intelligence. You know, we talk about IQ, we talked about emotional intelligence. This first time I've heard about body mind intelligence. Can you share what that is? Certainly I was trained and experienced myself a somatic type of therapy, which is based on the belief in theory that we not only process trauma and stress in the mind, but we also process it through the body and that over time, if we don't process that stress, if it's not released, it shows up in psychosomatic symptoms, such as I had a client who had tremendous jaw pain, like just a lot of pain. It caused her headaches, went to the dentists.

15:53 Nothing wrong, nothing wrong, but keep telling the story afterwards. Nothing wrong. What it was was the clenching of the teeth and the holding back of anger or sadness. And as we started to explore that area and the emotional release happened, and it took time, the headaches and the jaw at tension went away. So that's what I mean that. So on one level, it's an emotional it's the body's an emotional processing machine, so to speak. But also that that brain gut connection is a very strong connection, which is why sometimes we feel like, I don't think that's a good situation. Whereas to the brain on paper, it looks perfectly fine. If we can learn to get those two an alignment brain and gut, great resource.

16:53 Well, and I laugh because I am a retired dentist. I guess you didn't know that. Oh I didn't know that. And I used to treat people with that jopping and for me when they would come in, and of course if you're not familiar with it generally lately, it's like, well, doctor, I have TMJ, I really have pain. And I'm looking at him going, no, you have two. You have one on the left and you have one on the right, So now tell me what are your symptoms. And of course I wish I had talked to you way back when because I had never thought at that time about the emotional aspect of that. I looked strictly at the neuromuscular and skelettal aspect of that, which again we were able to help and resolve, but we had to go into literally the deep reason why we had to go into the diagnosis of what's really causing this, whereas a lot of dis sah, yeah, I have TMJ. You got to get operated.

17:49 And it's like, so did you discover what they say to you, I've been under a lot of stress or I'm grinding my teeth, and you would explain, you know, what was happening. What I For me, what I found is they're driving. You know, for many of them, the reason they're grinting their teeth is because the relationship between the neurological, the muscles and the nerves and the jaw itself was not in balance. And as we got that in balance and then started to hit some of those muscular areas that were causing the headaches and so forth, with either injections or whatever, it went away. But there were some that didn't. And like I say, it would have been wonderful to talk to you way back when, because then I could have said, all right, it's time for you to see a therapist and let's figure out what's going on here, right.

18:38 And I am one of those people. Sometimes it is definite, it's physical and that's it. You know. I'm not always like, oh, it has to have some psychological route to it. But if you've tried physical things and it's not going away, why not give it a give it a try and see if there's something underneath that pain. I think of the author, famous author Judith Hermann, and she wrote a book called Trauma and Recovery. And one of the things, if I'm remembering correctly, in that book is that people who experience trauma often have stomach issues not based on acid reflux, though of course, over time, if you're stressed, your acid reflux is going to rise, but they were trying to treat it. Then go to doctors and try to treat the stomach physically, when in reality there was this emotional component and both can be addressed well.

19:40 And that was my point. And you know, it's so interesting that you know, you get on the doctors will put you on medication because you have some kind of physical ailment. And as you probably know, and I've certainly experienced in all my interviews with people and some of the personal stuff that I've gone through, that emotions affect the health of individuals absolutely. So often all they do is they go in and start taking the meds, which causes all sorts of other side effects, rather than really looking at what the emotions are that perhaps are creating. That. That's right, and sometimes because that emotional trauma is so strong, it tips the body into a physical state which has to be addressed as well. But I think that the dual approach, if things aren't changing, is going to give people the most empowerment.

20:41 Well, I agree, and I think what I've seen is a lot of times when people work on the emotions, the physical goes away. Yes, yeah, and you talk about it, you talk about stress, and obviously medically stress creates that higher level of cortisol which causes all sorts of issues with rights with our bodies. So I know you talk about stress, what are the three key areas of stress? So there is the first of all, stress can be good stress, and that's sometimes I think stress is the bad word, but there can be good and bad stress. So good stress might be oh, I'm buying a home for the first time, or or having a child for the first time, or I'm going back to school, whatever it is. And then the bad stress can be shows up as the isms wlcoholism, alcoholism, substance abuse, gambling issues.

21:38 That when stress gets to the level where there's a constant state of anxiety from different sources and you don't know how to manage it, you're going to find I call it it's a way to self sooth. It doesn't serve you in the end, but you try to figure out a way to get through that stress by having a couple of drinks at night, or shopping or going to a casino, or taking some kind of substance to do exactly what you said to lower the cortisol. The stress response from the nervous system. So stress can come from work, it can come from relationships, it can come from a political environment, election season, it can come from what's happening with the environment. And it's really about learning how to get some detachment from those situations so you can function in your life well.

22:34 And as you as you talk about stress, and of course you know, as I shared with you, I just got back from Thailand and I spent nine months over there. Wow, it was. It was fascinating to me because once I get there, I tend to be that analytical individual. That's one I knew what you know Dennis is, and well, not necessarily, but when I started really researching out, I just wanted to understand what is it because I would go around the different areas and here are these people that are dirt poor. I mean, if they're lucky, they may make three to four hundred dollars a month maybe, And yet you know, you don't see all the emotions of junk that's going on, but I do see outwardly the sense of peace and the calmness, and they seem to be at peace with themselves. Then as I started to study that a little bit more, I recognize that in ninety five percent of them are Buddhists. That you know, Buddha talked about suffering, stress, that type of thing, and how we can achieve the point where we don't experience that anymore.

23:42 That's in my mind, exactly what you're doing when we talk about confidence is how do you help someone to get to the point where that stress is not deleting their confidence and allowing them to really speak their truth, speak their minds when they would like to. Absolutely it's that you know Buddhism, and I don't study Buddhism, but I know that it's all about getting that sense of detachment from suffering. That doesn't mean you don't care, doesn't mean you won't contribute, but you are not being pulled underwater by the overall suffering and pain in the world.

24:22 And so when I work with people, I have them, whether it's in a coaching session or in a group session, to say, it's that classic what's the worst case scenario? What would happen if you forgot where you were in your presentation or you started to speak up in a meeting and you lost your way, Because that's the big fear, like, oh my gosh, I've got to be perfect or say it wonderfully. And when you dismantle the irrational fear that's probably based on an old experience, when you really dismantle it and poke holes in it, and people go, oh, I guess I wouldn't be yelled at or berated the way I was as a child, because I'll say to them, if someone were to do that to you, you'd have a lot more options than you did as a child.

25:22 You'd be able to get up, you'd be able to walk out and be able to go what's going on here? You don't have to take things the way you did when you were in a powerless position in the past. And people just need to be reminded that they have a sense of autonomy, that they have a sense of empowerment, and that the world, it's going to sound funny, is not against them in the way they might think the world is to varying degrees. So I had a lot to do with their perception of the world. Absolutely, it's perception that's that self esteem route to confidence. If you don't have a good sense of that you are valuable and that you're a good person, and that that's giving your power away to other people, and then they have all the power to dictate how your day is going, your career is going, and your relationship is going well.

26:16 And we're talking about that internal confidence crusher, but I know that there are external confidence crushers, and I'd love for you to talk about that, and then maybe we'll chat about how do you overcome that too, and how do you deal with that? Sure confidence crushers are the people who say and do things when you are at your happiest. So, for example, let's say you in the workplace, we'll use that one as the first one. You come into your regular group of friends that you hang out with and you say, I've just gotten promoted. People who are on your site will be like fantastic. A confidence crusher will say, oh, look to you, I guess you're gonna leave me behind when you when you rise the corporate ladder in a very sarcastic teasing way. And then if you respond to it, oh no, no, that's not true. Oh I was only kidding.

27:20 How many times have we heard that? Not a good thing? Again? We have to look at why would someone in your happiest moment want to pierce that with teasing? Which is that kind of teasing is different the kind of teasing you have with your friends who love you, or your family you love you. I'm not putting down teasing, but that kind of response is someone who's a confidence crusher. Or you go to share with a friend that you're just starting a new business. I'm starting a new business. I've decided to quit my job, I've saved up money, and they go, wow, in this environment, I wouldn't do that.

28:01 I mean, your chances of success are pretty bad. The immediate negative response is coming from a confidence crusher. Usually that response is from someone who's jealous and thwarted in their own ambition. So it's interesting to again think why would my friend respond out of the gate with that negativity. Again, it's different than someone saying to you, Hey, Doug, great idea sounds like terrific. Can I ask you a couple of questions or I want to I want to explore that with you or challenge you. That's a very different response when someone shares good news with us, unless they've told us that, you know, they found a bag of money outside of a bank, I don't know, we should usually respond to with happiness. And then the final one is confidence crushers who who question everything that you do in a in a critical way. Well, I've decided I'm going to get married to so and so, Really what about this? And what about that? Do they earn enough money?

29:22 Are you going to give up your place? Why would you do that at this point in your life? So instead of the oh, that's fantastic, I'd look to hear more and then if you hear some red flags you can question. But again, confidence crushers come from a place of low self esteem. And how do you and here's the other question, how do you help people to understand that it's nothing about them, but rather it's about the confidence crusher and whatever emotional issues he's dealing or she's dealing with. I think it's that detest that we're talking about. First of all, you're like, ooh, that doesn't feel good when that person says that. To really, and sometimes this comes from you have to step away in order to go Why did my colleague at work respond so negatively? And sit and think? Is that their usual response to the world?

30:21 Are they threatened by me achieving? Why is that? You don't have to fix it, but to take some time to think and to really affirm for yourself that someone responding negatively to good news. It's there's something off there. When I was going through my coaching certification, the fellow brought up something. He says, Now, he says, in relationships, this is what you should do, but don't ever do it. And it's like okay. He says, when you're in a situation where as you're talking about someone is unkind is a confidence crusher. He says, the question you want to ask is, so what emotions came up that make you feel that way within yourself? And he says, you don't want to do that, You're going to get a divorce in a relationship. But the reality is is you can do that in your mind. And you if you have gotten to the point where you have enough confidence when someone does that, you can think to yourself, all right, I wonder what challenges have you had in your life?

31:29 What emotions you're coming up within you that you would actually do that to a friend or that's otherwise otherwise. And you can because people say to me, well what do I do in the moment? You can? I say hand it back. So I come in and I say, oh, I just got to raise I'm going to be promoted as a manager, I guess you're going to leave us all behind silence, or you could say what do you mean? Hand it back? Ask them what do you mean? Well, it seems it's like you know, you're just going ahead. Yeah, aren't you happy for me? Like challenge it in the moment, So that's one thing if you want to practice that.

32:10 Or you could say, we'll see, Oh I've got to take a call and get out of the energy. You don't always have to take on things immediately. So the choice is to engage by handing it back. The choices. If you know the person well to say, you know, Doug, that's kind of a strange response to me telling you something that's making me happy. Can I ask you why? Oh it was a joke. Well, I have to tell you it's not really funny to me. Oh, you're so sensitive. And again, how you're responding to me is kind of strange. What's going on? Or you do the quick Well we'll see if the corporate ladder takes me high and I got to go, I have an appointment, So engage, explore or get out.

33:02 And how many people do you find because of whatever subconscious limiting beliefs they have tend to surround themselves with confidence crushers rather than surrounding themselves with those positive responsors. This great question, so many so many people do and until they start to become aware of huh. This energy is very similar to the energy I grew up with. So, for example, in my first book, I show the story of a colleague who gave up a successful career in finance, was thriving because she wanted to become a nutritionist. That was her passion, and she had a parent who was like, why are you doing this? You have a great job, Why would you take that risk? Again, the parent had fear and was projecting it onto my client, and so my client said, I'm doing it. I'm sorry. My colleagues said I'm doing it, and she achieved a registered dietitian degree.

34:15 The first person she wanted to call was that parent, who had a negative response the whole way, and we had a discussion because we were friendly at that point, like why do you want to do that? How about filling up with people who are really genuinely happy for you before you make that call. So we tend to recreate unconscious subconsciously, actually a family dynamics. We just tend to do it. We end up with versions of our caretaker's other father, grandmother, aunt, whoever it is, whoever raised us.

34:56 We tend to recreate those dynamics in our relationships, both the positive qualities and the negative ones. Well. And as I was doing different you know, studies and so forth, when I went back to business school, uh, and it was very much on behavioral approaches in many respects. One of the things that came out was, you know, when you have an environment that is not uplifting, you need to disconnect. And you know that that can be really tough, particularly if it's family members, if it's parents, if it's brothers, if it's sisters, or even in work. And I'm sure where you're working in the you know, in the corporate community, how many times do you find that there's a culture there that is affecting your client to the point where they really need to disconnect and maybe even move on to a different job or whatever that happens to be.

35:47 That's right, change where you can, if you can make some changes, if you can take it on, if you can say to that person, even if they are superior in the sense of their role, hey, something's going on. Here can we talk it through. But you're right. If it is not changeable, you have to you have to separate, or else you will be talking about the stress. You'll start to get overwhelmed by the stress, and it'll affect your body, mind and spirit well. So as we talk about that authentic communication, let's define that. What is authentic communication and how do we actually not only experience it, but do it.

36:34 I believe first it's the first step is accepting yourself as this valuable person, because once that's in place, all other things flow, whether you make a mistake, whether you have a success, if you feel I'm coming from the best place possible. I didn't mean to hurt my colleagues feelings, I didn't mean to hurt my partner, my romantic partner's feelings. I did, but I'm really a good person. It's not because I'm horrible. You can then learn to express like a gate comes off. You can then. Say things like I really messed up, I really messed up, and I'm so sorry. Please accept my apology. Let's work it through. So authentic communication comes from having an authentic sense of self, and then how you do it. Remember, people don't have to reach that standard of just being the most gregarious person in the room. They can be a quiet person and still speak authentically because they believe that what they have to say will contribute to the conversation.

37:44 And sometimes if you really have that confidence, you'll learn not to say anything in that particular environment. Very very true. Pick up the vibe in the room, right, this is not a good place to step in. Very true. That's that trust, yes, And as you're working with people, and you know, there's different words for it, that inner confidence, that divine within. How do you help people that have gone through all of that trauma and literally have that belief system that I'm not good enough, I'm really no good blah blah blah. How do you help them to understand that the goodness literally is there innately within them and that they can go from that perspective rather than anything else.

38:31 One of the simplest yet it is the hardest exercise that I give to people. Simple in what I ask them to do, but hard for them to do is an acknowledgment exercise. And I will say to them, for the next week or two weeks, I want you to track every compliment that comes your way from the large ones to the small ones. So that could be. A large one could be wow, you really gave a great presentation. It's very effective. A small one could be thanks mom, great spaghetti, whatever it is, or someone's saying to you you look great in that blouse or nice tie, whatever it is. Track it now so that seems easy, and then people will reluctantly and will do it because they The biggest thing, Doug, that I've seen is people tend to dismiss compliments. People whose self esteem is not in place will be like, yeah, well yeah, but yeah, not as good as so and so whatever it is. The hard thing is then to share it, either with me or another person. That's when people feel ooh, am I allowed to do that? Am I allowed to share with Doug that I got a compliment at work? Can I share with my best friend that my date told me

40:03 it was the best date ever because of how nice I was. It's the permission to first accept the compliment and then share it. I love it. So you've written some books and I think as the last one was word Sick or is that is that your latest book? Yes? Latest in a while back. Yes, but so the word sick And I know that there's more to that name than just that I saw I wrote down, what is that book all out about? And why did you write it? I wrote it because, again it was out of my fascination with how worry does affect us in mind, body, and spirit. That there is such a thing as chronic worrying where it becomes a defense against the world. So a chronic worrier is someone who checks the weather forecast, is the one who plans for all contingencies on a trip. Again, they're positive parts to that, but they can't relax. They can't be like, well, if it rains, it rains, or I don't have to keep watching the most gloom and doom news broadcast just in case. Chronic warriors are just

41:34 in case people, and it can start to wear them down because they are living life with a caution that can hold them back from their own dreams and desires. Yes, yes, and again, chronic worry is a way to manage anxiety. That's what's driving it. It's an anxiety. Are there times when when when being a good warrior is a good thing, Absolutely, But if it's keeping you from going for that promotion or dating or moving because you're so afraid of the what ifs. That's something you have to start looking at.

42:19 Or as we talked about earlier, you have the jaw or the stomach or the shoulders, or you're so physically tense you can't enjoy your life well. And it's tough. You know. I talked to my kids and you know, and myself about new adventures, and I think that that's the big challenge is, Oh, here's a new adventure. I'd really love to get involved in it. And yet, as you say, then comes the worry, Then comes the stress, then comes the confidence lack of and it can stop you from actually doing something new as an adventure that may be an incredible experience, right, And so.

43:01 With a chronic warrior, one of the best ways to unhook from that is to disrupt it. So if you find yourself I'm going to go, I'm going to plan a trip. We're going to go to the Grand Canyon. Oh what if it rains, What if the canyon floods, what if someone falls over the edge. I mean, all of this doom and glue when that starts to go and you have to disrupt it, get up, get out, wash your dishes, play a game on the computer, go outside. You can get your mind to focus on something else so that rumination doesn't drive you to never leave your house.

43:43 All righty, and time runs by so fast, so we're running out. But what I'd love for you to do is share with the audience if there was a message that you wanted to share with them, a short message, what would that be. It has to do with that. Confidence is something that can be relearned. Usually start out with it, but it can be relearn and one of the ways that you can learn it again is to focus on yourself and to start doing things like acknowledging the compliments that you get during the week, maybe even working with someone who can help you and remind you that you're a good person.

44:27 But start with you first, clear out all of the blocks that are stopping you from being the person that you want to be. It will pay off. I love it. So how do people find you? Carol? Sure? You can go on my website which is Carol with a k KA r O l Ward dot com. And on my website, I actually have a tab for some free resources that people can download. One is a goal setting download. One is a stress reduction audio download set to original music, and one is a quick presentation tips checklist just you can access those there.

45:10 And do you work with clients outside of the organizational community with individuals? I do. I primarily work with people who are trying to expand their small business and I help them figure out what's in the way from them becoming more visible. So it's a very strategic approach to what's in the way. And then here's the actions that you can take to become the thought leader that you want to be. I love it, well, Carol, thanks so much. This has been a great. Discussion, great talking with you. I love it, and folks, thanks for listening. Hope you've enjoyed it and look forward to having you join us again soon as a doctor. Doug saying no mistay O totted every year