The Pause Before You Answer

0:01 We'll be right back. Welcome to Inspire Vision. I am glad you are here. Kirana, welcome to the show.

1:03 Thank you so much, Dr. Do for having me. I can't wait to have this wonderful conversation with you. I'm really excited. You know, it's interesting. Where do you live? Yeah, I live in Jakarta, Indonesia. It's like, yeah, probably people knows it too. But yeah, if people don't know, yeah, it's in the Southeast Asia, right? So yeah, it's basically near Singapore, near Malaysia. That's where I live, yeah. All right, and I'm in Thailand, so this makes our timing really good. Yeah, we're so close. We're just like a neighbor. Yes, that's great. So what I'd love for you to do is kind of share with the audience just briefly your background.

1:47 Okay, my background. I think, yeah. Before I get into the journey, I also like, yeah, I do my professional work before. Yeah, I do like in the private sector. And also I do also government worker before. But yeah, I think that is something that I already left behind. Yeah, so many long years ago. And then I just become a mom and a wife too. So yeah, that is basically what I do. And then during that period, yeah, I think I found my work. path to the journey that I do right now, become an author and also strategic life coach. And so, yeah, and doing something meaningful conversation like this with you, Dr. Do, yeah, that's basically my background. I don't want to say it more like too long. I think it's not too exciting to hear about.

2:38 So yeah, we just go like going with the flow with all the conversation. Well, and I'm always curious as to what was the journey, if there was one, that brought you, as you say, you were a government worker, you were doing all sorts of things, and then all of a sudden, here's a journey that brings you to being the author and writing about what you're writing about, being a life coach or a mentor for people who are struggling. Was there a specific journey or incidence in your life that brought you to that point? Yeah, you know, I think My journey to the point that I do right now is probably coming from unexpected place.

3:22 It's coming from a comment from my youngest son that he was calling me, mom, you're so jobless. In the middle of casual dinner, which was just like having a dinner with the family. And then suddenly he said to me, mom, you're so jobless. Okay, okay. That is honest. Yeah, that is honest comment from only seven years old kids at that time. But I think that comment stayed with me because, you know, even though he didn't say it, I feel like, yeah, he was quite right about it. And then, like, he got the point because even though he didn't say it, I already feel it. You know. There's some kind of something missing in my life. I think something off, yeah, that I can do more than this, that I can capable more than this. And then I just, like, I do not pay attention, just like, Just like going with the flow, with the routine that I have to play.

4:19 So yeah, I think that comment from my youngest son is more being like catalyst for me and also some kind of wake up call for me to do the reflection and the realization. So yeah, that's it. The unexpected place coming from my youngest son telling me that I'm so jobless. Yeah. Okay, so you're jobless, and you probably could have had all sorts of different directions that you could have gone. And yet, here you are talking about what makes a good life. And why that direction? What was the motivation behind moving into that direction? Obviously, writing your book, but also seeking to help people to start to live a better life than what they're experiencing now. What was the motivation behind that?

5:08 Yeah, okay. After that comment, yeah, I do some kind of reflection because that, and then I realized that I've been drifting. I do not build something that's truly mine, okay? So I think that's the point, yeah, that I've been drifting. And then that makes me, that forced me, like, to find what's my next, right? Like, So I have to build something that truly mine so I can get some kind of that agency back to myself and also ownership back to myself. So I just at that time, I do not like thinking big. Yeah, I do not like planning the grand plan. No, I only started small. I start with only something that I know that I love the most. But it's begin like some kind of because the role that I have to play. Yeah, it like shifted in my daily plan. So yeah. That is reading.

5:59 I always been a vivid reader and I always been love reading. So yeah, I come back to that habit that I love before all of this happen. So and then I start reading a book one hour a day after the house is empty. And then that reading eventually it shaped the way how I think. It's like begin like questioning my assumption toward everything that I experience or I witness. So yeah, and then like I try to like connect it with the reading that I read in the book. And then like, and then by the end of the day, I get more like clear thinking. So yeah, that's basically also why I help people through the coaching too. Because When I get that some kind of clarity, I think it's really kind of freedom. It's really freeing for me.

6:45 So I want people to also like experience it too because when we have that some kind of clarity and we can get the more better decision, it feels like freedom and it's really freeing for us. So yeah, that's basically the coaching. And then the reading to also like make me to write a bit about all the things that I already read and then like because I already connected with the orderly event so I write it on a blog but become uh before I realized it already become hundreds and by the end of the day I think yeah it become my book cheers for the good life so yeah that's basically one tiny daily habit reading a book one hour a day I think yeah it leads me to the journey that I do right now so basically it's like that I already know the how to build this good life, I just want people to also like experience too because it feels really make us calm and also like we have a strong mind too.

7:42 And then by the end of the day, we can like have the chosen life. So yeah, that's the idea. That's it. Okay. So who's your main group of clients? Is it mainly women? Is it both men and women? Who are most of your clients as far as where do they fit? Yeah, so I think mostly it's a woman. Mostly more women, more like kind of my age, that probably they feel, yeah, the thing that I do, that I experienced before, they've been drifting and they know what to do about their life. Or probably they don't know what to chase again in their career. Yeah, something like that. It's not about private, no.

8:23 I think it's more like sometimes it's more about career too. But I also like work with, male, yeah, with the males also, and then with a group too, yeah, that's, I think, basically, with the executive too, yeah, I do the coaching with the executive and also a team, yeah, but mostly it's individual, and it's mostly, it's a woman. Okay, so here's what I find interesting, and I find this throughout Everyone that I've talked to with different backgrounds, there's a gap between the life that we're experiencing, for many, and what we truly want. And sometimes we're not even sure what we want, but what we're feeling is a discomfort in our lives that we're saying to ourselves, this is not what I want. I'm not sure what I want, but this is not what I want.

9:19 Mm-hmm. Why is that happening among the group, particularly the women that you work with? Yeah, that's, I think, the most common, yeah, common factor. Why does those women experience that? Because we've been sold version that feels good from the outside, from social media, from, you know, because we live in the modern day, modern daily world, you know, you see world too. So we're like, like more comparison. It's more like noisy to look up that version of life that probably looks good, yeah, looks good from the outside. but once again we don't know whether it's like working to us or not like we just like have to figure out so we're just not like always look up to that some kind of person that that life so yeah i think that is something that probably most people like uh always experience and also probably uh the woman also like some kind of has this some kind of identity crisis yeah because like they're like living it they have to do the role as a wife as a mom but in the same time yeah they have to do something with their self so this is some kind of like this is more like you know this is they cannot find a balance yeah about it so that's I think the most the most mainly factor why people some kind of drifting and they don't know what do they really learn and sometimes because

10:50 that that purpose yeah that direction feels like getting buried yeah buried underneath all of the busyness too That is, I think, also the factor why sometimes it's hard for people to find it. But then how we come to know what's our purpose? We have to pay attention. It's more like closer to attention. And then we get some kind of awareness. So I think this is not what I want. Or is this something that I want? We have to really pay attention. And we also have to... getting back again and again to what always keeps coming to us you know like there is a clue there because even though probably it's not feel good yeah from the uh from it's not looks good from the outside but it feels good to our to ourself and then probably it's not something that looks impressive from the outside, or probably people will tell you, I think it's not something good for you to do it. But you always keep coming back because I think this is something that matters to me. I think you have to really pay attention to some kind of clue like that because I think that is the clue that something that is really matters to you and more important to you. And then after that, you have to have that some kind of courage to live it. if you already had that answer, just leave it. You don't have to, you don't have to listen to the other people. And it's so like telling you, no, no, you cannot do that because it's not good for you.

12:19 No. If you already think it's good for you and you always come back, coming back again and again, I think that's the answer. You have to leave it. Yeah. So, so here's my question. You know, I, I grew up in the U S. Um, so my experience was the societal pressures, um, The religious pressures, mainly for me, Christianity. And there were so many pressures and expectations of how we should be, who we should become, that type of thing. Right. You live in a different, I assume you're living in a different society there, mainly Muslim, right? Yes, yes.

13:01 Majority system, yes. So how much do you find in where you grew up and where you are that societal expectations, that religion, that education creates all of those expectations that oftentimes are not genuine for an individual. And so they're failing all of those, and therefore that's the life they have to live. That's the identity that they have to have. And yet, that's not what makes them comfortable. Yeah, you know... Yeah, I live in Indonesia. It's majority Muslim and I think it's the highest population of Muslim in the world. But you know, this is, I think that's something that I have to straighten it up. Being a Muslim, it doesn't mean that we're not, being a Muslim woman, Muslim woman, importantly, especially, it's not that we're not like cannot do something and then like do something benefit for the society. No, that's I think that I have to straighten it up because probably people will think that because you're Muslim and then you tied to the conventional thing about being a wife, being a mom, and then like you cannot do anything aside of that. No, in my country, a woman and a man has the same rights to... to get the ownership to their self

14:31 and also like growing and then do something about the society. So I think that's the point, yeah, the point that living in my country. But yeah, there's some kind of, there's certain places, yeah, probably more like traditional, more village, yeah. There's some kind of place like that makes woman and also mom, yeah, they can do anything. There's still some kind of place like that. That's whether we want to admit it or not. Yeah, that's still some kind of place that force a woman just only to stay at home and also doing, just being a mom and a wife and then they cannot, but they just tell, no, you cannot do anything. You just stay there being a mom, being a good mom, being a good wife and you cannot, you cannot like do something for the society. So yeah, that's I think also the realization and also the fact, yeah, that that happening in my country where I'm living in Jakarta, right?

15:33 It's like, you know, it's like modern city and also modern society. People not expect us to do this, to do the like a traditional role, yeah, as like the village. But yeah, but yeah, still, yeah, but still sometimes we can, like a woman itself, like sometimes we're like experiencing, experiencing something that makes us more like, like, you know, like hold, hold ourself to do more, to do more for the others. And then like, we're just, I think this is not what we have supposed to do. I think I have to really some kind of hold. And then it's not like, We cannot express ourselves more freely. So, yeah, I think that is the fact that's happening, yeah, also in my country.

16:25 It has the same right, but sometimes, yes, people, a woman itself, some kind of getting a hold experience to do the thing that they want to do. Well, and, you know, as you talk about the fact that, you know, people are living on autopilot. You know, that's one of the things you've mentioned in your talking points where they're following expectations, habits, other people's definitions of success. Yes. How do you help them to start making better choices that are intentional for them? And how do you help them to begin to understand or to discover and gain that clarity of what is it that I really want?

17:09 You know, I have a I have something which I call a personal portrait, which is a behavioral analysis for an individual that goes in and talks about their three different personalities or identities. They're that innate, who they truly are, that societal expectation, and then how they happen to be living by combining those two. But also it gets into the fact that what are your true values and You know, what are your values? What are the motivators that are truly motivating you? And it seems to me that, and I've experienced this myself, that so often we are living other people's expectations to the point that we don't really know what our values are. We don't really understand what our motivators are. And because of that, we make decisions that that are not necessarily in our best interest, particularly as we look at young people who are trying to choose a profession. And oftentimes they're told, you need to be this, you need to do that. I experienced that.

18:16 My whole family experienced that with my dad. And yet they get into that and all of a sudden they realize, you know what? This is not what makes me happy. And it's because it's not meeting their values and the motivations that are truly theirs. So what is your experience with that and understanding of that? Why is it that with the people that you work with, that they are living on autopilot and they're not really living true to themselves? And how do you help them to gain that clarity of what their true motivation is, what their true values are that helps them then to start making different choices?

19:01 Yeah, you know, I'm going to start with the most easiest practical thing that probably people can do, yeah, just starting from today or tomorrow. I think it's simply pause for a while. Before like we're doing something or we want to say yes or no, yeah, we have to simply pause for a while, just get that some kind of slow down, yeah, sit down for a while and then asking questions. yourself, is this something that I really want? That is, I think, the most easiest way to do it. Because, you know, when we all more like always do something by default, yeah, as you said before, living autopilot, we're like so many like we're responding it like automatically, more automatically again and again and again because probably people expect us to do so. And probably people will always telling us to do so. And probably I think that it feels right at this time. So yeah, I will say yes.

20:01 So I think there is some kind of expectation and also We're like chasing someone's approval too. And then we're like getting this busyness and also like more like more distraction. It's easiest for us to always more automatically respond to something than just by default. So that's why I always tell to my people the work that with me, you have to slow down for a while. You have to really slow down and get post for a while and then thinking about it again. Yeah, I think, yeah, probably it's not easy for you to start. But if you always like continue doing it, yeah, slow down for a while before you want to say something, before you want to decide something, before you have to make decision. it will eventually, it will easier for you to do what next again, again. So I think this post, yeah, it will help us gain more like, first is awareness. Awareness to know what kind of pattern with always coming back.

21:00 When there's some kind of event, And then what kind of pattern that we always like always come back? Probably we always say yes, even though we want to say no. That's, I think, the pattern. And it's like some kind of awareness is really help us, okay? Really help us to do what's next again. And then after you already realize that you're aware, that you're noticing that the pattern that always come back, I think the next step is you have that some kind of gain clarity. So, okay, this is my pattern. So what I want to do about this, yeah? So, and then like, and then you find, you like asking that question again, yeah? What is really matter to me?

21:41 And what is the most important to me? Is this something that I do really want? So, yeah, basically that post, yeah, that post will help you to answer it, yeah, before you automatically react and respond by default and autopilot. So this post help you a lot. So after that, after you get that clarity, yeah, you can like leave it, leave the position that you want to choose because you already know what really matters to you. What's most important to you? And I think the question, what's our value? What's something that is really important to us and something that really matters to us? I think that is something that we have to dig deeper by one of the one of the client and each one of them, yeah, is something that we have to dig deeper because, yeah, there is something that you and yourself that have to know.

22:41 It, yeah. It's not something that I know it. It's not you, but you and yourself only. That's something that I have to dig deeper again, yeah, in my issues, usually in my coaching. coaching session. But in the end of the day, they will get clearer thinking about it. So, yeah. So basically, I think if you like just only like some kind of only a simple, simple, simple decision, I think you always can also like slow down for a while. Yeah. And then give that space for yourself to always like find the answer and also have courage to live it. Yeah. Well, and you know, what comes to my mind is that's not easy. Yeah. Because you think about this, and I look at this a lot, you know, we are so controlled by fear, and the fear of literally experiencing a different life. In fact, I just wrote an article for Substack, and it's talking about how many, you know, and this comes from, you know, living here in Thailand, and you have the Buddhism, and of course, there's this big concept of, you know, multiple lives, reincarnation, and so forth. And I'm not going there. But what I do realize is that we live multiple lives here.

23:58 We are reborn consistently when we're willing to do exactly what you said, you know, develop that clarity to realize that, you know what, I'm living my life on autopilot. This is not what, this is not who I am. But then what you have happening is the fear that comes in because to make that change, to go from something you're so comfortable with that you've been doing for years and all of a sudden move into a new life, to literally be reborn into a new, different life and experience, that is fearful. And how do you help people, your clients, to overcome that fear And be able to move forward and not let fear affect them and prevent them from experiencing that new life.

24:54 Yeah, I think what you said is quite right, Dr. Do. I think, but this is the point, yeah. I think the changing... is self is not the absence of fear right you will probably like will happening that some kind of fear I think it's human and it's also a good thing too I think if you get the some kind of awareness that oh yeah but I'm afraid how can I do this yeah That is, I think, something good because you aware, you notice that it will happening to you. I think that is a good starting point. It's to do transformation. Yeah. We're not, we cannot saying that it's the absence of fear. No. Fear will always there.

25:34 Yeah. That's a very human. And it's so, it's a good point that you experience it. That's more like noticing it. But yeah. And then what can I tell them that, okay, you, you, you experience this fear. So is it like make you want to stop or you just don't want to move? And then try to, and then try to leave that fear and just stay there. That's, that's the option, right? If you, if you choose to, to, to overcome that fear. And then knowing, yeah, once again, I get this form for me, a good life itself, more like these four areas all together, you have to strengthen it.

26:15 Okay. So first is self-respect and know that how to treat yourself. And then second is purpose. Yeah. You can know what's the direction for you to build a meaningful life. And the third one is like meaningful relationship yeah you know where to put your attention to what kind of person that you want to build the life with and also the fourth one is growth yeah you can more like always growing all the time i think when all this area like strengthened all together I think that fear probably will become eventually, will fade away and then disappear along the way. So because of that, we already like strengthened all of this together, self-respect, purpose, manipulation, also growth. I think by the end of the day, we know again and again, What really matters to us?

27:07 What most important thing to us? What do I really want? Because one with another is not more aligned with all of the things that we want to do, more aligned with all the value that we have. So I think if already just do it all together, these four, I think the fear eventually will some kind along the way it will like fade away and suddenly it disappears but again again you have to have that courage to live it again again because knowing that that is matter to you but you don't know but you what you don't want to do something about it I think it's such a waste right because you already know what's matter but you don't have that courage indeed fear is real yeah and it's it's a good point for you to aware it but do not let yourself stay there and do nothing about it and don't want to have the courage to live something that you really want, that something really matters to you. I think it's not wise for you, and also it's just such a waste of time. So, yeah, basically you have to live the courage to live it, yeah.

28:15 Yes, and I love the word courage. You know, every once in a while we try to come up with all of these different fun things, and I think of the three Cs, and I really never get into it, but it comes to my mind. You know, there's clarity. Yes. Then there's courage, and then there's consciousness. Once you have the courage, then you really need to develop that mindset, that consciousness of the direction you want to go. You know, one of the interesting things that I have done, and I love theology. I love different religions. But one of the things that I've done is going back as far as I can to the ancient times.

28:58 Mm-hmm. Because as I have viewed what's gone on with religious beliefs, regardless of which that happens to be, is that there's been a change that politically, philosophically, all of a sudden, here we are living, quote, what we think we should be living. And it's not really what was taught. And as I've looked at Hinduism, as I've looked at Buddhism, as I've gone back to original Hebrew, and even beyond that, I've not had a chance much with Islam. But I can...

29:40 my question for you is how much of that ancient wisdom that so often we don't even really look at or study, how much of that really can teach us about our lives, our modern lives, and how we should actually, and I hate the word should, but how we choose to To truly live our lives, to experience that sense of peace and joy and happiness. Yeah. So I think one reason that timeless wisdom, yeah, still matters in this modern life, yeah, and it also like helping us to navigate this modern. Life, yeah.

30:20 I think even though the world around us has changed much faster than we have, but I think the same question is remain the same. Right. Like we have this smartphone, we have the social media, we have this endless information, we have more choices and more ways to stay connected. But underneath all of that, we're still dealing with very old human question. That's the fact. That is like how much is enough? What actually matters? Who do I want to become? What deserves my attention? And how do I live well when I cannot control everything? So I think that question is remain the same when we're like living in the ancient time and also like living in the modern world, right? And then when I say like timeless wisdom, I don't mean a collection of old quotes or rules of how we should live, no.

31:15 I think I mean the ideas that have emerged again and again from generation of human experience. That's what I'm saying with the timeless wisdom. Is it like more like knowing ourself, accepting what we can control, understanding that enough is enough, like or choosing our relationship carefully and remembering that our time is finished. So those ideas aren't new, right? Like there's like old ideas, but modern life gives us plenty of new ways to forget them. That's I think the most dangerous thing about this modern world. So yeah, so I think When again, this timeless wisdom, yeah, become useful because it doesn't necessarily gives us answer. It help us remember the question that matter. That's anxious wisdom for me.

32:09 And I don't think the answer, yeah, to modern life is to reject technology or romanticize the past, no. We can't and probably we shouldn't go back. But the question is whether we can use the tools of modern life without allowing them to decide how we live, right? So technology can make life more convenient. Information can make us more informed. Productivity can help us get more done. But none of those things can tell us what a meaningful life is, right? And that is still something we have to decide for ourselves. And perhaps, yeah, that's why timeless technology Wisdom for me remains timeless. The tools, yes, changes. But the fundamental question of how to live well does not change. So, yeah, that's, I think.

32:56 How much do you find the ego comes into this whole realm of not experiencing the life that we want to? Because, you know, you talk about money, you talk about all these different things. But how often are you observing that people's happiness in their mind depends on how much they have or the kind of home they're in or some of the possessions they have or maybe even the position they are in society or whatever that happens to be. And, you know, we talk about that from the standpoint of our needs, our wants, and oftentimes our identity being determined.

33:41 by those outside elements, rather than recognizing that our identity, and this is where I get into the theology part of it, our identity is actually, if we were to look at it, that divine nature that exists within each one of us, the divinity of who we truly are, and yet we allow our ego to to determine that, okay, this is who I am because I have this or I have that. Do you find that occurs a lot with the people you work with? Yeah. I think that is one of the biggest misconceptions about a good life itself. People will assume that a good life or meaningful life or fulfillment life will instantly happen to you when you already reach that kind of milestone, probably that successful career when you have so much money in your hand. So I think that is something, the biggest misconception about a meaningful life itself. That people will tend to see that a good life, it will like instantly happening to you when you already reach that point of life. Probably life that looks impressive from the outside, right?

34:51 I think, wow, she already had that good life. But as for me, it's not the way it works, right? Because a good life itself more like not one area maximized out. When I say one area maximize out, like, yeah, you have this wonderful career, you have this successful career, you have so much money, but it's only one area of your life. There's not whole quality of your life. So, I think you cannot like have that meaningful life or also like have that good life when you always like chasing that one area. No, you will, along the way, you will feel something still missing. You will feel something off. I'm pretty sure because I experienced, I also experienced that.

35:32 I get this, really have, I have that meaningful relationship with my family, with my husband. But along the way, I feel, then I have a happy life. I do not like complaining about it. I have a happy life. But you know, somewhere along the way, I still feel something missing because I do not have purpose. I don't have that meaningful direction to build my life. Yeah, that is something, yeah. So I cannot like always choosing this one area, yeah. If you think that you already have that some kind amount of money and you have that success career and that is meaningful life. No, this is again, yeah, all of this area, four of area have to build together. Self-respect, And also purpose and also meaningful relationship and also growth.

36:13 You have to do it all of this all together. Because that is what makes you like have this more quality of life, whole quality of life. It's not only one area. That I think the most important thing people have to understand, yeah? And this is not some kind of something that you have to always check out because what really matters for us when we live in the 40, probably will feel different when we live in the 60. So you have to always like, yeah, get that some kind of clarity again to know, yeah, to know what really matters for you at that point of your life. So once again, yeah, success in it is really good. Yeah, it's real. Yeah, and probably it helps you to build a good life, but do not always define a good life with something happening to you when you have that some kind of amount of that money. No, you have to build it by all of those foundation altogether.

37:09 Yes. So any stories that you can share about clients that you've worked with where you've literally been able to help them to move from living someone else's life and having the identity that isn't truly them to actually working through that process to the point where they are now genuinely themselves and enjoying life because they have found themselves. Yeah, I think there's so many clients that already experienced it from my coaching practice. Before, clients told me that they don't know what to do with their life or probably they feel like they don't have agency to themselves.

37:53 And also, I don't know which part of the career that I want to do next because I think all is like being some kind of dead end for them. So, and then, yeah. Yeah, I help them to gain that clarity again and again, dig deeper. It's more like, you know, what's the real problem? When they say like, probably I want to change my work. Probably the answer is not like changing your work. Probably why you have to change your work? What happened, right? And then we have to dig deeper again what's happened next. So yeah, eventually it will lead us to something bigger than only the question, the first question, I have to change my work, I have to change office, yeah. That is lead to the bigger problem and problems why they want to do it.

38:42 So yeah, basically when I'm helping people, yeah, and then it's more like they like more like getting stuck in their face of life and then And in the end of the day, they gain that kind of the clarity. And by the end of the day, they know what truly matters to them and know that is something that they want to achieve for their life. So yeah, in the end of the day, they can make a better decision. I always tell them that that is not only the way. When you already know this is the way, but to get to the direction, you can probably have a little detour first, probably. And then like, eventually you will find, you will lead to the journey that you want to reach.

39:25 So yeah, that's basically that I do, yeah, with my coaching practice. And also more like getting clarity and also in the end of the day, you can get the better decision to do what's next with your life. Well, and you know, I find it interesting. We talk a lot and, you know, as I've interviewed so many people, you know, we talk about, do I need to change my job? And quite honestly, in many cases, yes. yes, your job is literally, your work is affecting you in such a negative way, you need to make that change. But I think there's also people who think, okay, I need to change my job because I'm not happy. And as I've worked with people over the years, one of the things that has come to my mind is that you don't necessarily have to change your job, but rather go back and discover what are those motivators? What are those values for you? And are there other things you can do outside of work that would help to fulfill that and then change your mindset about what work is all about? And rather work being your life, work is merely a means to be able then to experience those values and those motivators by something else that you're doing, whether it's art, whether it's music, whatever it happens to be.

40:45 And I think so. For many people, they need to understand, or it would be important for them to understand that, yes, maybe you really do need to change your job. Yeah. But at the same time, you know, maybe not. Maybe if you can find things to do outside of work that help to fulfill and then identify that that work is what's helping you to enjoy those other areas of your life, it's a change of mindset. And it makes such a difference. So As we're getting to a close, number one, how do people find you? How do they find your book? Yeah, you can find my book in the Amazon. Basically, it's Amazon US, Amazon UK, all the Amazon. And also, yeah, probably you can find also in the Barnes & Noble.

41:34 So yeah, that's my book. You can find it. And also, probably my website, cheersforthegoodlife.com, but I just noticed that it's broken. But yeah, I will figure it out. So, yeah, that's basically the home for my body of work, yeah, cheersforthegoodlife.com. You can find my book there. You can find my coaching practice and also my writing, yeah, my real thought, my understanding, and also my next event and also my speaking engagement, yeah. So, yeah, that's basically it. Okay. And for the folks that didn't understand that, it's cheersforthegoodlife, C-H-E-E-R-S. Yeah. For a good life dot com. Yes. And so what would be that final message that you'd like to share with the audience that would make a difference for them?

42:23 Yeah, I want to say this to the people that listen to this conversation. I just want you to know that a good life itself is not something that is suddenly happening to you. It's not something that will fall for you, yeah? And then like happening to you instantly, no. It is something that you have to build by one intentional choice at a time. So yeah, you have to build it. If you want to build that meaningful life by doing this self-respect, proposed relationship and growth all together. And then knowing what truly matters to you, what's really important for you and also what you really want. And you have to have this some kind of habit to pause for a while before you want to answer to something, before you respond to something, you have to do some kind of habit to pause for a while. So by the end of the day, you will not like always do it by default and autopilot. So yeah, that's from me, Dr.

43:22 Do. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you. And I appreciate your thoughts. You know, it's, I love interviewing people from around the world because I What I find fascinating is that regardless of where you're from or the society that you happen to be from, there's that commonality of goodness, of desiring to truly become the best that we can become and to experience a life of joy and happiness. So, Karana, thank you so much for being on the show. My pleasure. My pleasure, Dr. Do. It's such an honor to be in your show. I really enjoy it. I genuinely also appreciate all of your insightful talk too. So yeah, thank you so much.

44:07 Thank you. And folks, I hope you've enjoyed this. I hope there's been some things that have been said today that will make a difference in your life. So this is Dr. Doug, as usual, saying namaste. Namaste. Thank you. Every conversation on this podcast eventually comes back to that same question, not how do I get more? But is this actually who I am? If something you heard today moved you just a little closer to an honest answer, that is enough. I'm Dr. Doug. This is Inspire Vision. Until next time.