The Power of Personality

0:01 This program is designed to provide general information with regards to the subject matters covered. This information is given with the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services. Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas. At the end of the day, it's not about what you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up, who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.

0:44 Thanzel Washington, Welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to do the same. Eric, Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Doug Hey, I'm really excited about this conversation. It's fascinating to me when we start talking about personalities and how understanding that can have such an effect in people's lives. But what I'd love for you, you know, your background has nothing to do with personalities, and so I'd love for you to share with the audience kind of who you are and you know what you actually do. And then how on earth did you get involved with looking at personalities and writing the book?

1:26 You know, it's interesting because the way I got involved with personality types is more of an on a personal level, Like it was something I always felt kind of weird when I was younger. I know, weird in a bad way, but different, right, And so when you feel a little different than you kind of try to figure out why. And so I studied it on a personal level. On a professional level, I started my own education company, and then I started to see that there were ways where I could use the personality typing to teach my teachers how to understand their own bias better, so that they can start understanding their students and understanding like how they might have a different value system than the students their teaching and not to necessarily push that value system on their students, right, And so I integrated for a decade into my own education company, and that's where I did the research for the book. And yeah, I started writing the book, and that's I was able to publish that this year.

2:14 So the education company, what is that exactly, and what do you do you know. It was basically tutoring in the home. So we provided in home tutoring for about one thousand students a year. Mainly it was students who were of need, generally in the local school districts. We worked with maybe forty or fifty school districts a year in the southern California area, and it would be one on one tutoring, So my teachers would have no excuse in terms of being able to adjust the lesson for each individual student. Right. It wasn't like they were teaching a whole classroom of kids, And for me, it was more or less a way of connecting with the students. So it's not just about, oh, teaching them math or English or English language arts, right, It's about teaching them how to like grow as an individual, because all these students had separate issues that were not necessarily academic, right.

3:06 Right. Oh, that's wonderful, And obviously you've incorporated the personality part of it. So your book. Talk a little bit about your book. What's the name of it and why write it? You know. The funny thing is that this might be a longer story than it needs to view, but I did I actually went back to screenwriting after I started my education company, and I kind of stopped doing that because I wanted to try something different, even though screenwriting was my academic background. And I was writing these pilots and I go to bars after writing with my friends and we started talking about personality types, right, and I was like, oh, well, you know, like I used to own an education company and I had my own personality typing methodology. And it just started a conversation where people are like, hey, instead of writing scripts, you should really write a book on that, and I was like, no, no, I'm just going to keep writing my pilots. And one of my friends actually put the personality types in the show she was working on, and then at that point I was like, okay, well, I guess if you're gonna put in your show and it seems palatable for a public audience, then maybe I should write a book on it. And it took me a few months and that's when I came out with it.

4:10 And it's basically my own personality typing methodology. It's called the Power of Personality, and by reading it, it should teach people how to type the people around them, including themselves. All right, And you know, My introduction to personality was when I was living in Boise. Actually, I was part of a networking group and they invited a fellow to come in and he talked about personalities and I was just fascinated by it. And at the time, I had two well, I had you know, four children, but two of my boys were not getting along. They were in high school a couple of years apart, and they were not getting along, and so I thought, you know, I wonder if this would help, and so I actually had him work with both my boys and it was amazing the change that took place. And even today, where they're in their thirties, it's interesting to see how they have used that in their lives, in choosing their careers and all of those type of things. So I'd love for you to talk a little bit about what's the important We're going to talk about your methodology in a bit, but why is understanding personality so important?

5:21 I think it's because our personalities really dictate some of our core values of what we want right. And I think sometimes there is a tendency for the majority of people because a majority of people kind of fit into a certain personality category, and there is a tendency for them to kind of push that value system on the other the minority of people, right, And I think you know, you have kids who grow up and thinking, oh, I should value these things, even though I actually value these things, and then it's that push and pull, right, And if you start trying to pursue things that you don't really match with your own values, then that's only going to lead to unhappiness, right, And it's also only going to lead to personal conflict. I think when we understand our personality type, we get a core idea of who we are.

6:05 It's like kind of like developing an anchor. And once you have that anchor, then you're kind of like safer to kind of explore the different people around you. But I think there's a danger when you don't truly understand yourself to like kind of try to assimilate into places that don't really fit you. Well, I'm even understanding others. And that was the that was the challenge with my boys, is one was a specific personality, the other one was kind of the opposite. And so, you know, one tended to take things very very specially and emotionally and the other one just wow. And so it was really interesting to see how that worked, but to see them understand that and make that change.

6:48 So let's talk about your methodology. Let's talk about the personality. How did you come up with that? Because, as you know, there are so many different types of personality profiling, and quite frankly, as I listened to this, you know, first fill, I thought, wow, this is really great, and then as I got involved in some others, I realized, you know, some of these and it was kind of at the time something really big to have that personality profile, and some of them just sucked. They just did not make sense, right. They tend to be very I find that they tend to sometimes overcomplicate things and try to make it more like based on terminology or like too specific, and then you just get into the weeds right where you're just like, oh, this is just an exercise and intellectual theorizing versus actual practical Like I see people like this, I see patterns of behavior, I see these things working and kind of adjusting from that. But yeah, mine came about based on goals and desires, right. I think a lot of them tend to focus on traits that we see on the outside.

7:51 But for me, it was more like working with students. I tend to see like two kids could go for the same things and appear similar on the outside, but when you ask them certain questions, their desire is different. Like you can have I Obwaus say, like you can have four writers who love to write and are really into writing, but write for totally different reasons. The reasons why Tolstoi might write a novel might be different or not. Might They're very different than the reasons why Hemingway right write a novel. And in talking to them, you're going to say, oh, Okay, they're very different people, even though on the outside they're doing the same things and actually might appear very similar, but at their core they have a different desire. And I think that's what kind of pushes people into certain categories or certain groups versus just kind of like whether someone is more talkative or whether someone's more organized. I think those are important, but I think there's a deeper meaning to what we.

8:43 Do right right, So what is the challenge with some of these profiling programs? For instance, I'm familiar with one. As I moved over to Utah, there was one that was so popular and I don't even remember the name of it, but I know it was just yell. It was red, yellow, blue, and white. M those were the colors. And you know I looked at him, I go, Okay, the red pretty close, the yellow is pretty close, you know, the grange pretty close, but the white doesn't even come close to anybody. So what is the challenge that you have found and why did you end up developing your own?

9:24 Well, one of the challenges, I mean, I will say that it's I laughed because there were four specific colors, right that you gave, and I write about that in the book. My system also uses kind of a set of four, and then it has like four personality types within that four, making sixteen different personality types. Right. But I write about there's a whole chapter based on the fact that archetypally, you know, whether it was Plato or Aristotle or you know, Hippocrates, we have a tendency to split things up into four, right, and with just different designations within those four groupings. But I saw that pattern of four kind of like the teenage mutant ninja turtles. You know, when you think of things like and each one fits a certain kind of category. I think one of the difficulties I found though, is that, like you were finding with the colors, they do tend to focus it's the methodology and the diagnostic process, right. I feel like that's the thing, Like you can you know if you if the diagnostic problem or diagnostic methodology is wrong or flawed, then it doesn't really matter the prescriptive measures, right.

10:24 And I feel like a lot of these books have prescriptive measures. Then, like let's say ninety nine percent of the book are these prescriptions, and the one percent that they have in the beginning is like a test that you take, right, You take like, I don't know, fifty question test and then then you know, then you read about yourself. Right, but one of the questions are wrong. So the way I wrote the book and why I came up with my methodology was in a way I was trying to teach people how to be the test because I feel like that diagnostic part is way more important than the prescriptive part, even though the prescriptive part is where everyone wants to get to you. Right, They're like, no, don't tell me how to do it. Tell me what I am so I can figure out what I'm going to do with it. You know, I'm like, well, let's take some time to figure out why we are the you know, why we are the way we are, and that might be more helpful.

11:09 Yeah, and you know, and as you mentioned earlier, there's so much that gets involved in that because you know, as you look at these personality types and as you say, literally sixteen not four sixteen, because you have the crossovers, but also you get into the values, you get into the purposes, you get into all of those things that can literally change an individual. So to try to pinpoint them into one specific one of four different personality types can become very dangerous because that's not who they really are. Right, And the benefit of doing so the four within the four is that at least the very least of year within I call them packs, right, because my animal or my methodology uses animal personality types just because it's very easy to remember. Okay, you know, like like right, if you call someone a fox, I think we all know what the fox is like, right, I mean, even in like archetyphally and movies and shows, we know who acts like a fox. But if you're within this particular pack, then you are going to be similar to people within that pack because you're going to have the same core value, but how you go about achieving that value is going to differ based on the various personalities within that pack.

12:22 And I think I started to find that out working with students, right where you're like, oh, yeah, these students are similar to each other, but they're different in a certain way, and that difference makes all the difference in terms of how to best utilize their skills and strengths. Right. Well, And you know, I find I'm fassionated about the fact that you work with students and so forth, and you know, I think that there's some real keys there that most teachers really do not apply, understand or any of that. But have you found that based on looking at the personalitays of the kids that you've worked with, which all seem to have some very specific issues, did you find that they fit into a specific personality profiling or were they all over the board?

13:10 You know? So it was It's interesting because me personally, I work with a sad amount of students, right, but as a company, we worked with like a thousand a year, right, So in that thousand, it generally fit a certain percentage, like where there be half the students are going to be like this, and then a third are going to be like this, and then you have certain minority packs that will act a certain way. I noticed, like individually. I hate to say this, but I probably work best and I'm most effective with specific personalities generally based on my own personality, right I exactly you know, like yeah, Like it's generally the personalities where I'm within that pack. So students who so I'll just say that, I call them the Shawmans, and there tend to be seekers of self knowledge, right, which can be pretty difficult as a kid, because if you seek your own self knowledge but are constantly being told this is what you should do. Do your homework, be responsible, be organized, and that might not necessarily fit you. That can cause a lot of internal struggle.

14:05 And I think growing up, I also shared that internal struggle. So working with students like that was a lot easier for me, right because I can go like, no, I know how you're feeling, but I'm a more confident version of themselves, right I should be. I'm older and supposedly wiser, and so I do tend to work better with those students. But I would say that knowing about the personalities, I will change up based on what I know. So I know certain other personalities work better with maybe a I don't say the whip approach, but certain personalities work better if you're harder on them because they don't take they don't take offense. They don't they're not super sensitive. They will try to get away with that ever they can get away with. So for them, you got to be hard on them because they'll just adjust. Right. They're like, Okay, he's not letting me get away of this, so I won't do that. But he's letting me get away with this, so I will do that, you know.

14:51 And it just depends from kid to kid. Right, And so the other thing that comes to my mind is we've got the personality, but we also have the learning style. And the reason I'm bringing this up because I know there's going to be some parents listening to this. And one of the things that I really believe is most of the time, within our educational system in the United States, they only teach to one learning style. And that's why you have so many students that struggle and then get medicated because the teachers and everybody else doesn't understand that, you know what, it's not the kid, it's the teacher and the style that they're teaching. Right. One of my favorite quotes actually is from Baldwin where I'm paraphrasing where he says, the irony of education is the one the more we become educated, the more we start to question the system that we were educated in.

15:41 Right. And I feel like with my as it pertains to the personality typing methodology, it's like I have four packs and one of those packs makes about half the population. And guess what, that's the type of population that also tends to become teachers, and specifically elementary and grade school teachers. And when you think about it, like they prioritize safety and security, right, So they're telling kids, Okay, this is how you learn. You'd learned by the safe, cautious approach, like write down your homework assignment every day, make sure you have everything planned out, make sure you have a set structure. There's a certain way to do things. How do we know that it works because it was done ten years ago, twenty years ago, thirty years ago. And we're just going to keep doing that because it's proven to be correct. And you should do that too, because that's the safe approach. And I do think it works with half the population, like a kindergarten class. Half the kids.

16:28 Anyone who's talk kindergarten knows half the kids will listen to the rules as you tell them. But then you have about a third of the class that's just running around and grabbing things and throwing things around. And I think that third it's very easy to see that that particular style teaching in our education system doesn't work specifically for them. All right, let's talk about your methodology, so weit and get more into specifics on this. So what is your methodology and how do you identify the different personalities? So the simplest way I can say it is there's four packs, and within each pack they have one core value. And yes we can all value, we can all value everything, but it's really what we prioritize, right, So the gatherers they're the largest pack and they make about half the population that I found, and they prioritize safety and security.

17:14 So when you think of like the way our society is structured, I mean the gatherers are the backbone of society. They're organized, their structures, they're detailed, they're responsible, they're dutiful, they follow the rules, do what they're told and enforce the rules and maintain order. There's a third of the population that are called the hunters. And like any good hunter, they explore. They are really good with tools, They're very physical. They tend to learn as students, they tend to learn based on visceral like grabbing things and moving things around and like kind of like seeing what works and what doesn't. Because their core value is excitement, like visceral excitement. They're the type who wants they go on a roller coaster because they feel like going on the roller coaster is going to make them feel like they're going to die, and that's exciting to them. Right The risk whereas you talk to Gather, and the gather is like, why would you ever want to feel like you're going to die?

18:02 That's the last thing I want to feel like. And you notice that's already a conflict right there, right, you know, that's the typical Bert Earning kind of conflict where you got like the organized, structured, responsible person versus the spontaneous, flexible you know, uh way of the rural the kind of person. And then you have the two minority packs that make up maybe eight percent of the population each and one is the Shaman pack which I mentioned before, and they focus on self knowledge. And then the other pack, which is also eight percent, I call them the smiths, and they focus on information. So you know, you can see they're very different value systems that each one has. And as we're working, or at least I was when I was working with kids, I could see that each one is going to respond to stimuli differently, and so the key is not trying to make them adjust to you know, the teachers response, but to make this to adjust to what they need.

18:54 Right. Do you find do you find that those you know, those sex that you talk about the animals? Do you find the groups? Do you find that they kind of correlate with some of the more well known personality systems when you talk about you know, the red, the yellow, the blue, the green type of thing. Do they fit into that profiling? They tend to Like when I look at the whenever I see anything with thores, I almost that's like my you know, the sirens go up and I'm like, oh, I wonder how it's gonna fit. And you can kind of like archetypally see oh yeah, these seem to be like the gatherers and these seem to be like the Smiths, and it tends to like I think I'm in agreement with a lot of the results of where personality types or like those structures tend to go. I'm probably my methodology differs in how to get there, like how do you because I often find that people mistype themselves when they take tests, and they hate that. Like someone say, oh, I'm like, you know, the most popular one is the MBTI, right, So someone will say I'm an IF and then I'll be like, oh, no, you're not that, and then they get mad, They're like, wait, you're talking of trying to tell me what I am. I'm like, well, I mean I don't think you are. And then I explain and they're like, oh well, and I just asked them one simple question like were you a good student? And then based on the response, I'm like, yeah, see your response is telling me nfs don't say that, and then I'll and then they start seeing patterns, and oftentimes they will agree when I say that they're mistyped and I retype them.

20:25 But really it's more or less how like you know, we don't often know ourselves right because we're not often comparing ourselves to other people. We just see ourselves, right, So I think that's what I'm there for. We're to say, like, look, no, in comparison to this person, you're very different, you know. Okay, so you're using letters right now to identify what what does that personality profile? Which particular one is that called? Oh I'm sorry so I said if because that's the MBTI version and that's what people know. But in the NFP for me is called the humpback whale. And the way I describe it is, you know, the humpback whale is the daydreamer. They're like the at their worst there martyr. They're the sacrificial lamb, you know, they're very like they're the Luke Skywalker Harry Potter type. They tend to be very self sacrificing and they take a lot of things upon themselves. They're the person who is very spiritual. They tend to be connected with nature and all those kinds of things. So like, for me, it's more of a holistic approach where I just based on patterns of behavior that I've seen and since you know, used to have a thousand kids a year, so you know, over a decade of owning that education company. That's a lot of people that we type, and that's including the parents too.

21:32 I'd often have my tutors try to type the parents and give information back, so at least, at the very least, I could take the information that my tutors collected and I could help them try to type the parents, and that way they can kind of see the conflict between parent and suit it right. Yeah, And you know, some of the well known people out there that are really promoting a lot of this self development and so forth use the disc that's the is Tony Robbins does, and there are some others that I won't name, and they actually don't call it that, but the reality is that's what it is. What are your thoughts on that one, because that's the one I'm familiar with in a certain way. So how do you compare what you're talking about to that? Are you familiar with that one?

22:23 I am? And it's interesting because that also has like a four letter dichotomy, right, and it's either this or that, right, And I feel like we're all like everyone's kind of on the same page, and we sometimes differ just on how we get there, right, what's the approach and how do we diagnose like, you know, like is it this or that? Or extroverted or introverted? You know? And I do like that. I think it's more probably externally based than necessarily internally based. My approach tends to be more and that's a lot more guessing. I guess you have to try to guess what's inside someone versus what you see on the outside. So I get like either more appealing because they're much more observational. And I think we can observe behavior and then try to interpret that behavior how we will.

23:07 And the one that I use actually uses that disc but it brings in it does the same thing you do. So it brings in the fact that there's sixteen personalities number one and number two. It does the very same thing you're doing, which is getting into the values, getting into all of those type of things. And that's okay, So let's get back into what you're doing and what you're talking about. You talked a little bit about the and I did too, and I brought it up. You know, you have your extroverts, your introverts, your right brain, your left brain. How does yours fit into that or do you kind of deny all of that and go a different direction.

23:49 Oh, I definitely wouldn't deny that. Obviously, extraversion and introversion have been around for quite a long time. I mean young white a long time, meaning like one hundred right, one hundred years, hundred and twenty years. Maybe I do think that, And in the book I write about that, I do think extraversion introversion got very popular because I think that dichotomy works really well with a certain pack. So gatherers make up about half the population, right, and they're also the most likely to volunteer for studies because they're all about doing their civic duty and their community minded. So they're definitely like, oh, yeah, I want to help people, Yeah study me, you know. And so I do think their value system and the way they respond to things definitely gets permeated throughout society more than other types. And I think with gatherers that idea of gaining energy from being around a lot of people versus gaining energy from being by yourself is absolutely pretty applicable. But I do think that there are other types that does not necessarily apply.

24:45 And one I always say is like the Smiths. Smiths tend to focus on information, right, So with those that like to separate an extroverted version versus an introverted version of a smith. It doesn't really have to do what we normal think of as extraversion introversion, whether where they get their energy from. It's more so how do they process information, because once again, the smiths seek information. So I have two specific types that I always mentioned in this example, the chimpanzee and the owl. They're both smiths. They both seek information. One is extroverted and one is introverted. And yet the difference between them is that the extroverted smith or the chimpanzee processes information by experimentation. They experiment on things or on people, and they build models, and then they see whether that model works or not, and if it doesn't, then they change it up. Whether the owl is more theoretical, they think about like, oh, like everything's calculated in their mind. They're much more observant. And I think those two things are very different than how we might define extraversion introversion. Sorry, that was a really wonky explanation.

25:51 Okay, And how would you put them as far as right brain left brain? Oh, right brain, left brain. That's an interesting right brain left brain is It's tricky, right, because they always say that Einstein what made him so brilliant was that his what was that the corpus calism was larger. That was the only thing that was different about his brain. I think his brain was only slightly bigger than the average brain. But they said, is corpus calisim was in large and that's the one that bridges the gap between the two. Yes, And you know, I don't. Haven't you done many studies in left brain right brain? Aside from knowing that the genius of Einstein was that he was able to bridge the gap between what we think of right right. All right? And so as you as you talk about that, you know, you talk about the monkey, you talk about the awl. Where would you put them extrovert, introvert? Right brain, left brain.

26:38 So the owl would technically be introverted and the chimpanzee would be extroverted. But the I like to use a lot of pop culture because people know it. So the difference I give is Tony Stark or Iron Man is a chimpanzee. Bruce Banner who plays you know who it turns out to be the Incredible Hulk, he would be an owl. And anyone who's ever seen those movies and the shows knows that those two get along very very well. They speak the same language, they know they obviously they're science based, right, they're both scientists. And you see Tony Stark, and you see he's talkative. But I don't think he would fit into the normal description of extraversion because at the end of the day, he doesn't want to be around people. Where does he want to be most fault, He wants to be in his lab by himself, experimenting and building things. And I think that's how I differ from the normal approach, is that, yeah, like I think focusing on where values take us and what pack they put us in, then that's what determines really what we are, because it's all contextual, right. Because I've had a lot of people say, well, I'm extroverted in this situation, but I'm introverted in this situation. I'm like, yeah, because really where we put our energy is based on our values and that's all context right.

27:45 So here's another question for you. And I don't know if you get into this, because as I look at it, and as I originally started learning about this, one of the key factors that I found so valuable was that there were literally three per personality types, and is not to do with the you know what we've been talking about that. It has to do with that innate personality, the personality that we think we need to be, which would be the social personality, and then the conscious personality who we really choose to be. Do you get into that at all? I do in terms I like that idea because I do in terms of like how people grow, right, because people are always asking me can we change? Like can our personality type change? And I'm like, well, I don't think we change.

28:33 I think we can. We grow and we either grow into better versions of ourselves or worse versions of ourselves. And I think if we grow and we get further away from that core value of who we truly identify with and we start changing based on what you said, like what people are telling us what we should be, I think there's a danger to that. And I think the closer we grow into our true self and understanding ourselves will grow into a healthier version of ourselves. So in that regard, I yeah, I do like the idea of like that we ask certain ways in different situations, and generally it's because of our growth path. Yes, and you know. I know that I talk a lot with people that I interview about the imposter syndrome, and I look at that from the perspective, at least with my definition that you know, you've got people that behave in a certain way in a social situation because they they are affected that this is how I have to be, this is how I have to be. Now you take that, and then you take someone who really has the confidence to be who they really are, and they walk into a social situation and they say, you know what, this is how I need to respond to these people because of who they are, and they consciously do that rather than do it because they happen to be in that victim mode. What are your thoughts on that?

29:54 You know, it's funny. I also work a lot with students who are working on their college essays. Strangely enough, love it because when you work on your college essays, that's a great opportunity for me to coach them life lessons, right because you know, the college essays are always asking like who are you? What do you love to do? And I'm going to relate it back with every student, or not every student, but most students I work with their first instinct is like, what do they want to hear? What does the reader want to hear? What should I be to them? What do I need to be? And I'm always like, no, no, tell me what do you love? What do you really love? And they're always so afraid because they're like, no, no, I have to peer this way, I have to be you say, I'm responsible and industrious and blah blah blah. I'm like, do you think they really want to hear that? You? Don't you think they're going to believe you? They read like thousands or hundreds of thousands of these things a year, right, Like just be yourself, have the confidence to be yourself, be truthful, like show that you're passionate and don't worry about what they think. And you know, ideally the students will listen, but it's after much like of me, like not forcing that, but like preaching it to them. And I feel the same way is true with personality.

30:55 Right. I think we're so focused on like what people want, that we start to forget what we want. And I think that's just one thing is more effective. I think if you just be who you are, I think people are gonna love that. And two it's better for your happiness right overall? Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. So you know, before we started, we were joking a little bit, what is your personality type? My personality type? Yeah, I'm about I'm a baboon. I'm a babboon, and I know I'm just saying random animals and people are like, oh, I also say like, babboon is not a very appealing animal. So anyone who gets an animal, they don't like my aboot, my animal is not appealing, right Like, Baboons are known for flashing their butts at people. Okay, I don't do that, but a baboon is a part of the shaman pack. So shaman's seek self knowledge. Baboons they seek self knowledge in a way where they're a little bit more aggressive at seeking it, and then once they find something they really believe in, then they're a little bit preachy and they tend to preach and voice their opinions very actively. And that is kind of what I do. And of course we have a lot of our weaknesses as well. But yeah, I'm a baboon and you know, my role I feel like in life is to voice, be a voice to like certain ideas that I like.

32:10 So definitely extravertish obviously, Yeah, definitely extravertige and kind of a combination to left burn right brain. Would you say, I probably yeah, because I mean we're very abstract baboons. And it's a good example too of you know when you say extra version, because you know, a peacock would be another example of it's of an extroverted personality type. But they're part of the hunters, and hunters seek excitement, right, So what would be fun for peacock being extroverted is very different than what be fun for a baboon's version of extra version, right, Like a baboon can go up and be a preacher and preach or like give a Ted talk on like recycling or something that they really feel passionate about. That's a different type of extraversion than the peacock's version, which is doing body shots in cabo on the you know, on the deck of a bar.

32:57 You know, that's right, that's their version, and both we gonna be able to switch places. I'm not gonna do body shots and they're probably not gonna want to do a Ted talk, right, And that's that's the difference between us. You know, Okay, and you said you're gonna tell me what type I am after we've had a chance to talk. Yeah, I mean, okay, yeah, I said I would guess. Yes, it's harder. It's harder now, Like I I I said dolphin in the beginning, because I do know like you focus on people learning and being educated and like about themselves, and but you also are pretty analytical and that kind of ranges towards the Smith to me. But yeah, I'm just gonna go with dolphin, which would be an n f J.

33:37 I don't know if you're familiar with your m b MBT. I'm not. I'm not familiar with that. I'm more familiar with disc. So oh, okay, oh, I don't know what your disc type would be, to be honest, but yeah, you'd have to take my test and figure out what animal you are, and then I could guess and then. Well, and it's interesting if we get an extra version in introversion, innately, I'm an introvert, and innately, if we get into the right brain left brain, I am a left brain introvert. That's why I went into dentistry. Very focused on the small things and that type of thing, very detail oriented, that type. But also I'm an extrovert.

34:21 So if you were to look at my disc I'm a d. I. In other words, I'm a d so I'm up there in the red and then I'm down there in the green. But an extrovert. And here's the interesting thing. Would you say that I'm an extrovert? No, because we're talking, I can give you my opinion and so forth. But put me in a room where I don't know anybody. I'm not out there talking to people. I'm kind of just sitting back and not doing anything. Get me into a room or into a situation like us where we're talking about things that are fascinating to both of us, and I'll talk as much as you. That's that's such a perfect example of why, Yeah, I don't.

35:04 That's a perfect example of why I don't always love the extraversion versus introversion dichotomy, right, because you're both based on and you're so that's your the fact that you're energized with ideas. That definitely is something that Shaman's and Smith's would have. Like, that's the thing where because they're abstract in nature, so they get excited when they talk about either their feelings or their ideas, and that's when they can, that's when they blossom, right, But most of life is tends to be more external, like the conversations like oh what did you do yesterday? Oh, how did you like bali? And then people started talking about the restaurants they went to, and that excites a large percentage of people. But it might not necessarily get a a smith or a shaman out of their shell. But once you start tomat ideas and they're like, oh no, let me, let me, let me express myself a little more in this situation. But you did say you're red, So I mean I would guess a smith, maybe a killer whale.

35:52 Have you ever seen Game of Thrones? No? No, oh darn. I love to use fictional, but like I would guess like a killer whale or killer whales, or maybe a chimpanzee. I know I'm saying like three things. That's like not necessarily fair, but I would guess a smith. Smith's love information, they love sharing ideas. They love to bounce ideas off of each other. The only difference between a chimpanzee and a killer whale is a killer whale is more of a CEO type. They're very dominant, domineering and kind of like, let's do this, where a chimpanzee is more experimental. They're kind of like fun. They like to play practical jokes on people, and they like to figure out what people are by kind of like frauding them and poking them, you know, like intellectually of course not physically, but that would be my guess.

36:36 All right, So let's talk about relationships, and let's talk about the importance of understanding not only our own but also our friends, you know, individual's wife, partner, whatever that happens to be children, how do how do we determine and understand not only how we communicate but also how they want to be communicated too, so that if necessary, we can change that. And I experienced that as a father of four. I as I studied this to the point where I finally sat down with my kids and said, look, guys, I'm I will offer my opinion instantaneously, and I need you from now on to say, Dad, I either you know, do you want my opinion or do you want me to listen and shut up? You know? And and that's made a big difference, and they still laugh about it, but it's still very valuable. So as you talk about your personality, profiling, and so forth. What's the importance of understanding both our own and the other people who are within that realm of true relationships?

37:51 I mean, like you said right there, like I think, depending on our values, we're gonna take things differently, right, Like, It's something I a story I can tell from my own life. I'm a'm on self. Knowledge is a big thing for me. It's like understand, like ethics, like understand. I mean, in my mind, there's like a right way to do things, and I just want to feel like that I'm being heard and that I'll stand on principle. So a little story of my father. I forgot it was I was really young and I was arguing with my mom because it's probably something really dumb, like I wanted to wear a type of shoe to a party and she said it was inappropriate. My mother's a gatherer. Gatherers focus are very focused on what is appropriate, what is inappropriate, right, And I get that. I'm not like criticizing it, but as a kid, I was just like, no, that doesn't even make sense, blah blah blah. And my dad, who's a smith, So I'm sewing three different animal types and three different packs. Here he's a chimpanzee, so we're very similar in a lot of ways. So we're talking and I'm like, yeah, what mom says. It's like, she's not letting me wear the shoes that I want to wear, and that's stupid. It doesn't even make sense. And he's like, Eric, you're totally right. It makes absolutely no logical sense. But does it really matter. Just say that, you know, just do it because it's just going to be easier on both our lives, and just do it. Just do it, and you know, make her happy. I was like, okay, I will do that because as long as you agree with me. It's funny because I didn't necessarily care about the actual thing, right, I was like, Okay, I'll wear the shoes that she told me. It was more the principle of the thing, and he knew that and he was being much more pragmatic about it. I was like, Okay, as long as you understand that you agree with me and you know that I'm right too, I will totally

39:22 do that because it had and I think knowing what how your kids are can really show you how to almost ay manipulate them, but connect with them in a way where you're giving them what they need. And my dad knew exactly what I needed in that moment was to just know that I was right, you know, where other personality types might not want that. You know, they actually might want to wear those shoes, right, and you might have to treat them a little differently, right. But I think that's a good example. So in your book, do you get into that part of it of how we can begin to understand how to communicate with someone because that's how they need to be communicated with versus how we may choose to communicate based on our own personality. Yeah, the book is very specific in terms of each individual animal personality type. Like it'll break it down and go, okay, this is the difference between this one and this one is and it just goes down the methodology and as you're reading it you'll start to ideally. I use a lot of examples and personal anecdotes, you know, student you know, student anecdotes, fictional anecdotes to like, kind of so that people can start saying, oh, this is the difference between this type and this type. So clearly, if this type values this and this type values this, you're gonna have to and you're this one. You got to like be able to like adjust to this one, right, Yeah, so it's pretty specific within each animal type.

40:35 So interestingly, I as I said, you know, I've done this podcast for years and one of the fascinating things I've experienced as interviewing a lot of ladies, particularly who have experienced abuse and who have been involved in codependent relationships, and what I have found is the personality value, you know, the behavioral evaluations I use. I found that they for fit very often into a very specific modality. Do you find the same thing, particularly with people who have different experiences and challenges, that they fit into a specific personality type. Yeah, you know, depending on the challenge. It generally like every personality type has its flaws, right like, and you know, and generally our strengths are based on those flaws. And for that specific one where you know, abuse, especially in a domestic situation, it tends to fit. Not to pick on them, but the gatherers have a tendency gathers trust, authority, trust, society, trust, social traditions, and in instances like that, obviously, let's face it, historically women have been in a much more subservient role traditionally.

41:45 So when you do value traditional values such as that, and a woman has that particular personality that tends to be more deferential, then they might find themselves in that situation. That personality will find that in that situation quite a bit. In fact, Like I think the personality that I have is called the bear. That's the example. They're the bear, and they're so loving, they're so loyal, they're so kind. Of course their flaws, they can be overly loyal, and obviously they're the most likely, like if you're a woman in a domestic situation, to let their significant other abuse them and just say, oh, you know, but he really loves me, you know. And that's once again consistent with their type. Now, all the other types have different flaws, and we'll find themselves in different problem situations. But yeah, that would be a good example of like the bear.

42:31 Well, and I love how you talked about the fact that those very strengths that we can determine based on that, if they go too far, can become weaknesses. You talk about you know, the red or the dee who is very strong so forth. You know, if they don't check that, all of a sudden, they become overbearing and unkind and all of those type of things. And so do you talk about that in the book, about how those strengths of our personality and become weaknesses if we don't recognize that and control it. Yes, there's actually a chapter called the dediant Roles, And of course it's kind of said humorously because I want to look I try to look at everything in a humorous light, so make it a little bit easier to digest.

43:16 And each animal personality type has a flip side, which would be basically when they've gone wrong, right, because for every like let's say a stag. A stag is your typical gatherer. They're very organized, structured, confident, strong. My mom was a stag. They are the school principal type. They are like the person who's been told their whole life that their values are right and they should share that and you know, maintain that order for everybody. That can lend itself to some problems, you know, if you're a little if you're not all there. And so their dediant role I call it the fascist because you can imagine like that, would you know, if you have that mentality, it can be very good in a lot of ways. But it can lead maybe to fascism versus other types that maybe be over consumptive. You know that I just like be too laid back and just go with the flow and their deviant roles called the tortured artist right because they just might like just consume way too much.

44:09 So I do have like every role for every personality type at their worst. So how do people find your book and how do people find you? Is particularly I would assume parents who really have a special concern about their children's learning could find your company. How do people find both? I got to remember my own websites. You can find me at a project utopia dot com and that's utopia you because I think you can find utopia within yourself right and just cover because it'spelled like YouTube. So Project utopia dot com is my personal website where you can find my bio and you know, stuff about my life, coaching and my book. You can find anywhere. What do they say anywhere you purchase books? If you want to give Jeff Bezis your money, find it on Amazon. But if you don't, Barnes and Noble's a great way to purchase it or your local bookstore. Just order it from there.

45:00 Great and is it inaudible? Also, unfortunately it is not inaudible. I've been asking my agent about that and saying, hey, can we put this on audible And apparently I need to get the rights from my publisher to do it. So ideally I'll put it on audible within the next year or so. Personally, I'll get with you. I love audible, oh had I've heard that request quite a bit. So as we close, what would be that message that you'd really like to share with the audience. I would say, find your anchor first, Find who you are, find what you want, because that anchor is going to keep you away from the storm of other or at least keep you settled when the storm of other people's values and personalities come calling. And then once you have that anchor, then you kind of explore your own flaws and your own weaknesses through other people. But find it first, otherwise you'll lose yourself.

45:52 Okay, And you know, I think that's so important and I appreciate what you're saying there. I think that to understand and to be aware of who we really are, and that goes into all sorts of issues. But to be able to do that and then take that and move forward with that, I think is so powerful. So what a blessing you are to the population out there that you've written the book, that you've gotten into this area which a lot of people don't get into the depth that you do, and particularly where you've included values and all of those type of things in relationship to quote personality I think is so accurate for people.

46:32 Well, thank you so much as are kind words, and hopefully it'll make people laugh as well. Well hopefully, And folks go get that book. I guarantee you it will make a difference in your lives. And this is doctor Doug. Thanks for listening. Hope you'll listen some more as we come into more type of podcasts. Is Doctor Duck Saying No Mistayti d rith Heir