The Life That Looks Perfect But Feels Empty — A Conversation with Catherine Crestani

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0:44 Denzel Washington, welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to. Do the same. Catherine, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Doctor Doug. I'm exciting to see where we go today. Well, I'm looking forward to it. And you know, obviously I'm from the US because of my accent, and where are you from because of your accent. Well, I'm from just south of Sydney in Australia, so I can have some Australian twang today. Oh what I love it. I love it. So what I'd love for you to do is kind of share with the audience. What I find really interesting, Catherine, is that the background behind what brings an individual to the point that they've written a book or they've got their podcast or what they're doing, and I usually find that there's.

1:34 Some background beneath the reason why. So I'd love for you to kind of share who you are and a little bit of your background and what brought you to this point of doing what you're doing. What an evolution that has been, it's still going, still evoving, But I guess who I am now. My current title, if you will, is that I describe myself as an authority, guide and a writer and speaker, conscious leadership and human potential. And that's basically a really fancy way of saying I lead people back to themselves because so often we get lost in what everyone else expects, the verse for society expects, averse culture of family, all those things that we actually forget to follow what makes us excited and what brings us joy, so we actually want to wake up in the morning instead of hitting the snooze button ten twenty times and trying to avoid the day. So my background is this a speech language pathologist. So I did that for nearly twenty years, working with children with high needs, especially autism, spectrum disorder, and neurodivergent backgrounds, and I just never felt fulfilled. I was incredibly good at my job, and part of it is because I'm very intuitive, So I could create this beautiful calm atmosphere for those the kids that came into my space, but I could keep saying there was something more I was meant to be doing.

3:00 And even then I never just was like put on my speech therapist's role. I also did so many other things. So I would go learn from all these different people from like allied health professionals, I would go learn from doctors, I would go I was constantly looking for the next thing to make me feel fulfilled or to help me, what I thought, bring that, you know, my life to the next level. And as I continue to step into that. You know, my first business that I had as a business partnership, I built that to seven figures with my business partner, which is pretty impressive, and we went from this tiny practice to I think eight full time speech therapists just speech therapists, which is unheard of back then less so now. But things have shifted and I did that through seeing gaps in the market. And what I didn't know is my gut instincts were really strong at leading to me to where I needed to be. So once that's kind of dissolved, in the background, I've been building out my own business and my own company, which I built that up to a six figure business. The problem was I made it all around revolve around me, so I was constantly on call. Like anything went wrong, everyone called me. I never got to have holidays because if I went away, everyone would still call me with all their problems and I had to answer the phone because there was no one else to call. So you can only stress your nervous system for that long before you end up in burnout, a dream or fatigue, chronic stress.

4:31 I say, I worked twenty four seven because I had such bad insomnia. I'd wake up in the middle of the night and just go send all my delayed emails, you know, on my to do list, to get those done. And there was just this really deep yearning that something missing in my life, and my husband was actually urging me to sell the company. He's like, is it not making you happy? But I couldn't see another way out. And I was working with my nature path at the time, and he said to me, if you could do anything in the world, would it be And the unfiltered answers were like, I was, I would write, but I didn't know what that would look like. Then this was like maybe five six years ago. It just came out, you know. I was like, oh, okay, and he goes, we'll go do that and I was like, but how do I do that? But it was enough to plant that seed right and then just see how that ended up evolving.

5:19 And then from working with him because I went to him every week by this point because I was maintaining my health. He was the only thing that kept me, I think, out of hospital and from having a collapsing in exhaustion because I was constantly having all these supplements and everything. But from doing that, I realized that I needed to sell my company because when I went through kind of coming more into my spiritual gifts and that sort of reawakening component, I realized that there was something bigger I was meant to be doing, and it wasn't the job I was doing, so First of all, I had to sell my company, and my company actually fell apart before I came to that point because it took me a while. So in and this I can't make up, doctor Doug, So are you ready? So in the space of a week, I had three staff resign. By this point, I concluded I needed to start stepping back. I just wanted to be more of a manager. I was taking on too much. My health wasn't okay, and so to have three staff resign in a week for various different reasons was kind of a kick in the backside. And I actually broke down on the floor and I was rocking, and I was like, I can't do this. And my husband and my son were both like, it's okay, you can get up, and I'm like.

6:28 I don't want it. It's just too hot. I don't want to full on breakdown. So then I did get back up. Obviously I'm here. I got back up, and then I was like, all right, I'll just have to find some staff. I'll figure it out. I've done it before, I can do it again. A month later, another three staff resigned in a week, and I still hadn't replaced the first three, and by this point, I was incredibly angry. I was so angry. I just wanted to I did. I went and yelled at this place I meditate, I just want and yelled and like, what do you. One from me? You know, like this is so frustrating to do. Anyway, I accidentally took that out on a staff member too, and I did was accountable for that and when I owned that. But then a month later, so this is three up across three months. Another three staff resigned in a week. And by this point I went, you know what, these people aren't meant to be in my life anymore, and I am not meant to be running this company anymore.

7:27 And as soon as I had that realization, it's like this big weight just lifted off me. And then I made the decision, I'll either find a buyer or I'm shutting the doors. That's the point I was at, And the universe did send me a buyer, and I ended up working for him, and that was beautiful. At the same time, I kept staying in that position even after I had to, like I was able to go because my contractor kind of ended. I stayed in there because I was afraid of whether money would come from if I left, and by staying I physically started to go numb. So I lost feeling in myky I lost feeling up to the like I lost feeling it half my face. It was all just tingling and numbed. And everyone I went to I have a beautiful team of allied, like different practitioners from Cairo, you know, metaphysical, all these sorts of things. And it would shift for a few days and it would come back. And then finally I met with this couple and they went, Catherine, you already know that unless you address the underlying cause, this numbness is going to keep coming back. And I was like, oh my goodness, I'm numbing myself to go to work. You know that that's the point. And I was showing up in my system, which had been stressed for so long already, and so I was numbing myself. And so I was meditating with my coach at the time and he's like, if your heart could tell you one thing, what would it be? And this non negotiable quit came up. I had to quit my job. And I knew that that was my final warning or my health was going to tip over and be a lot harder to pull back, and so I did. I had no plan, and my

9:00 husband had to go back to work because I'm like, I'm done, you need to go back to he was stay at home dad. I'm like, you need to go back to work. I'm going to be stay at home mom. And the first day I was stay at home mum, all of my symptoms disappeared, every single one. And then that was when I really had time to start unpacking. What did I truly want in the meantime, you know, I was. I started my podcast because I knew I wanted to get over my fear of speaking my truth. That was the thing. I was like, I need to show up. I need to share all these gifts I've got, and I also want to learn from other people. So that's why I started my podcast, which then evolved into a massive connection network which I never imagined. And sometimes I still get guests in front of me and I go, wow, I can't believe I'm interviewing this author of this book that I love, you know, or however it shows up like that. But through that too, you know, I started to write. So I started to write. I hadn't I had this dream of my book that I wrote and just publish. And I had this dream and I just was like, I need to turn this into a book.

10:04 So for fifteen minutes a day, I just created this commitment practice to myself where I just wrote and I just no matter what. And it got to such a good habit that if I went to bed and have forgotten to written write my fifteen minutes that day, I would wake up and need to write. And you know, it was through all of that that I became who I am. And I share this with people and I support people, especially women, to say that they can have it all. Like my favorite expression is you can't have the cake and eat it too, And I said, but why not? Why can't you have the cake and eat it too and have everything that you want in your life? We are so limited and conditioned, and that's how I came to where I am today.

10:45 Well, and I love that you know and that story, and thank you for sharing that. I mean, you know, there's a lot of personal stuff in there, but you know, I think one of the reasons I was so interested in having you on the podcast is something that you said that we need to come home to ourselves. And actually just a few months ago, I was, you know, I was thinking, I've got to do something more. I had interviewed someone and they were talking about, you know, what kind of legacy are you leaving and so on and so forth, and you know, I love the podcast. I'm retired. Uh, But then I thought, you know, I've got to do something more. And it hit me that and it's such a correlation with what you just have said and what you're doing, because I ended up starting a whole thing that I'm just trying to develop right now called doctor Doug Reflex a quiet return. And the whole point is that, you know, so often we just focus, focus, focus on changing, and when really it just means and as you said, you sit back, you may meditate, and all of a sudden just quietly come back to who you are. So what you're talking about there, I think is so fantastic. And you know what I find interesting is what is it that causes us to go in a certain direction? You know, for you, you you ended up building this incredible business, a couple of businesses and so forth, what was the motivation behind that? And ultimately, as you've done this whole self introspection, what was it that was missing?

12:20 What were the values, What were the motivators? What were they that ultimately you realize that brought you to doing what you're doing now. I feel like a big piece of that puzzle was actually believing in my own self worth. So it was truly, you know, oh, if I if I can build my own business, and it will like I look successful on paper to other people, and if I you know, and even I was married before my husband now, and so many people would say to me, you have the perfect life, when inside I was numb and not okay, you know, I was so depressed. I cry in the shower every morning, you know, But this is what on the outside. It was that constant me of that status. And it's like, oh, you know, because we're taught success is the material checklist, right, Oh yeah, we've got the house, we've got the cars, we've got the two point five kids, we've got the animals, we've got the business. You know, we have our holidays.

13:15 But what's exciting about that? Like, once you achieve all that, what's the feeling that's left? And I feel that that's what a lot of people miss. So for me, my feeling of success is actually being at peace. It's been in that stillness, like you said, meditating the calmp But I don't have to meditate to do that. I can just sit there and find the gratitude in my life in the moment, and that is enough to bring me. That piece exactly. Yeah, and yeah, I. Was gonna say. And sometimes when it's so aligned, you just have those beautiful tears of alignment and gratitude where you realize, Wow, everything that I've worked for, everything I was trying to pull together, is truly working out, and you just get these tears appear. I just that your soul almost leaking through, saying yes, this is what it's meant to feel like.

14:06 Well, and again, you know, as I listened to different podcasts or you know, on social media and watching some things, every once in a while, someone says a word or a sentence that really hits me. And just the other day someone was talking about how people and this day it was more of a religious one, and they were talking about how people in their faith tend to pretend and he talked about how their studies have shown that that creates such stress. And what that reminded me of is here you are, you're talking about really pretending to be someone that you genuinely truly were not and the result of that was stress and health issues and all of that. And I think it's so important for us all.

14:52 I've experienced it too. I think it's so important for us all to realize that if we're experiencing poor health and we can't figure out why, we really need to look at what life are we living and is that really mine or is that someone else's. That has taught me that this is how I have to live. Yeah, and also to have the courage to inquire and then take the steps to step out of it. You know, it wasn't easy, Like I say, my first marriage breakdown, it was. It was okay to a point, you know, but at the same time, I still had to have the courage to blow up my life essentially because it was I had to sort out. I didn't even know if I'd had a house at the end of it, or a business or whatever, you know. But I had to do it, and I knew I had to do it to honor myself. And then even you know, quitting my job. It takes courage, and courage, isn't people believe that courage is the skill we're born with. But it's not.

15:51 It's something you have to develop and you do it by taking a little bit of risks each day. And I always say to people, you know, what's the worst that could happen? You know, you go ask someone to be a guest on your podcast and they say no, So what they say no? Move on? You know. It's just you know, put yourself out there and see what happens. You know. And I love that Wayne Gretzky quote you miss one hundred percent of the shots you don't take, because if you don't try, how do you even know it's a possibility. And a lot of the clients I work with, that's a big thing that it comes back to. It's like why not why not, you know, start your art business, or why not make that jewelry or why not you know, create something that brings you joy and you do it for you. And even when I was writing this book, it was for me. I needed to get this story out. I wasn't thinking of how it would cause the impact. And people say that that's selfish, but that is a condition in itself. It's actually been My old coach called itself full, you know, because you're filling up your cup and then everyone else can have the leftovers.

16:57 Well, and you know, you bring all that that is an interesting something because you know, I've just been studying selfishness and how that literally, you know, selfishness, and it correlates with ego and all those types of things. And I recall a statement that was made that if we truly want to gain a consciousness and insight of past, present, and future whatever, we need to annihilate that selfishness in our lives. And that's what you're talking about here. And you know what I find interesting. Everything we're talking about has just a general focus on individuals to truly return to who they are. But it seems like you've kind of started to focus on relationships.

17:43 Why because the universe sent them to me, don't to douge. So I was. Adamant, you know, about two months ago, three months ago, when I started writing this book, I didn't expect it to have delays that it had in it, because you know, when you're writing from that aligned place, it ends up being like a little bit of a reflection of your life. But at the same time, it went so deep into how from loneliness we make these decisions that aren't aligned or from desperation. So then I'm getting a flood of these clients because like attracts, like it's a universal law, right, So I'm getting this flood of clients who are taking on clients even though their gut said no, they took them on anyway because they wanted and we needed the money.

18:33 I was like, but they're always the most disastrous, and I know this from building businesses, right, you don't say no to those clients. If you get that gut feeling that they're going to be trouble, they probably are going to be trouble. Right. But then all these people, especially men, started to call me, going, hey, is my marriage okay? Because I do have like psychic gifts where I can, you know, intuitively tune into different situations. But the biggest thing that kept coming up is like, have you had a conversation? Have you actually expressed what you desire and what you choose to have? And have they as well? And so often we forget to have those conversations where you you know, because so often, especially in relationships, we don't enter them with an image of the end, right, we don't on our wedding day. Imagine getting divorced in five years. You know, that's not what happens. You know, we create this beautiful dream and vision of how our life will look. And what I found is a lot of people get stuck in the old dream and don't adapt because life changes, all your goals change, or your value shift a little bit because you've grown as a person, or they get stuck in this false reality that they create.

19:44 So it's like they've created this whole story in their head about what their partner feels or things without even having a conversation with them. So this is how it came in. Yeah, yeah, oh wow. Fascinating. And you talk about loneliness. I did a whole potat asked with someone talking about the concept of loneliness versus solitude and how there's such a difference. You know, if we are alone in. Solitude where we're able to just consider, be curious, and just be who we are, versus that sense of loneliness where we want something and we're lonely because we're not finding it. Talk a little bit about loneliness and how that's affecting relationships and how does that come about in a relationship.

20:32 Often there's like there's two parts kind of it because sometimes it's easier. So if you feel lonely, you can feel lonely, be certain, and be surrounded by people because people can actually see who you really are. And I guess the flip side of that is instead of facing ourselves and having a good look in the mirror, we distract ourselves and run away. And that's often what loneliness can bring to the surface, are those insecurities and those vulnerabilities because instead of looking at the mirror and embracing the darkness, you know, for me, I had to do a lot of work on my self sabotage. She shows up, she likes to throw in the towel just before I'm done with something. We had to have a conversation and she's in the backseat now she's not allowed to drive anymore, you know. And for me, like even self worth, like I had to really come down to actually I believe I am worthy, whether you expect it, like accept me or not. But it came through those moments of loneliness where I'm like, why can't I find people I connect with, or why can't I find my soul tribe, or why can't I find the right person? My husband now we were looking for each other. We just found each other because we were in good spaces where we were truly honoring ourselves in that moment, and that is a stronger foundation for a relationship than when I married my ex, which was we were young and dumb. I like to say, but you know, you just don't know any better. But so often people just you Loneliness scares people because it means they have to face themselves, so they'll use just actions to get them out of that, or they think

22:03 that they have to live to other people's expectations of what their life should look like. So instead of being okay being single, your your mom might be their nagging you're saying, are you're thirty now you should be married and having kids, or you know, it might be oh, you know, she's like really old, so she's not going to find a partner. Where actually you're quite happy being alone, Like you said in Solitude, you were enjoying your life. You're loving it, and then all of a sudden, this loneliness feeling kind of comes up because you feel like you're letting other people down, or you feel like you're not meeting your potential you and then people use technology to distract them to. You know, it's so often I go out now and you'll go to a restaurant to have dinner and people are there, like with the family or with a partner of significant other, and they're both on their phones instead of having a conversation with each other, you know, instead of facing and having those difficult conversations, they're choosing almost be alone by being in their phone, even though we're there with other people. So this is this weird shift I'm kind of seeing in technology where it's become an avoidant behavior. So a lot of people use that to avoid the loneliness in the first place.

23:14 Well, and emotional safety. You talk a little bit about emotional safety and what is it and kind of describe that and how do people fall into that trap of being safe emotionally and then what does that do to their overall experience of life. Our ego, if you will, once to keep this safe. You know, it just has this program. It wants to keep us safe. So when we start to step outside our comfort zone, all the voices start to rear up. And I always say, from being going through that sleep deprived mum stage, don't make decisions when you've worked on like two three hours of broken sleep. You know that is not going to help your emotional state because that is when that voice in your head rears its, you know, raise its voice is like, oh, she's tired, now, let's get our hooks in and keep her where she is, you know, like keep us safe. It's not a bad thing.

24:08 But at the same time, if you always stay the same and you always choose the comfortable and easy route and it feels more emotionally stable, you're never going to grow. And our soul is here to expand and grow and learn. And like you said when you were questioning the legacy, right, what legacy am I leaving? What am I actually choosing? Because you're yearning for something bigger, because we're meant to be connected with others, where like we have a natural social instinct. But at the same time, if you're choosing to stay in that emotional safety zone, a little bit of stress is okay. The stress I went through is not okay, But a little bit of stress is okay because it's just extending you that little bit further and allowing you to step and grow it. And the reason it feels uncomfortable is because it's new. We don't know what to expect on the other side, you know. And and so instead of letting your emotions always dictate the way, you kind of have to have a pause and check in.

25:06 So I always say to my clients and people I talk to, like, what does your heart want? Then check in with your gut, see if it feels safe, you know, and it's not just take a little step, you know, just see what that feels like. Try that on, and then another little step and another little step, and then we check in with our head, because our head will try and override that because it just wants to stay the same. And this is why NLP and practices like that are so important to have, because sometimes we do need to counteract those voices in our head and just find a way to acknowledge them so they don't end up keeping us small and keeping us in this little emotional safety nepp because we're not able to experience the wealth of emotions that this life can then delve up to us.

25:50 Well, and you know, it comes to my mind, you know, as we talk about all of this. You know, you obviously have people that are reaching out to you and so forth. But I also noticed that many people and I've experienced this in my own life personally. But oftentimes we just are going through life and something doesn't feel right, but we cannot figure it out, and hence the stress and that type of thing. How do you what do you find would be the initial if someone is just feeling not comfortable with their life? What is the first thing that they really need to focus on? Number one? Is it just get rid of the fear of focusing, you know, become aware that hey, you know what, this is not what I want? And then gaining some clarity.

26:41 How have you found you help someone to gain some clarity about the foundational causes of that emotional stress and that pretense that they're experiencing in their life. Well, it really depends on the person, if I'm honest, doctor Doug. But a lot of the majority of people forgotten how to dream. They've forgotten how to allow themselves to be in a situation other when than where they are. And sometimes, you know, we have to tap into that childlike wonder and awe and go, Okay, if I could have anything in the world, what would that look like? Or if I could do anything in the world, what would that look like? And it's amazing how quickly that comes, but sometimes people can't because their nervous system is so shut down and they're in that flight freeze situation. They can't allow themselves even to imagine. So often then we have to unpack and stabilize the nervous system to a point that they can then step back into imagining something.

27:40 And sometimes the idea of like a ten year plan that is overwhelming system as it is, so let's step it back to make it comfortable. Like I was saying before those little steps, Okay, what if in a month's time you could change something? What would that feel like? You know, we're in three months time and six months time, what would that look like? And then we can start to pull it out from there. And sometimes that can be a beautiful way to do that. But sometimes people just need a dose of reality. I know that sounds really weird, but sometimes people just need tough love. They need well right. And they need it just reflected back to them. And I'm like, Okay, you've just said to me you're ready to leave your marriage because of X, Y and Z, but you're telling me that you're still hoping for a change.

28:22 How long has that been for twenty years? Do you think it's going to change. No, so why are you hoping for one? And then it's like, oh my goodness, why am I hoping for a change? You know, And it's not always me encouraged them to step out of their relationship, but sometimes that's what you have to do as well. It just depends what it is. Well and interestingly enough, you know, as I've talked to a number of different coaches about relationships, one of the interesting things I've found, and you kind of brought this to mind, is that when an individual is ready to leave and you can sit. With them and say, you know what, let's work on you. Let's work on you, let's work on your communication skills, let's work on you, they find that as they truly become who they are, all of a sudden, sometimes they see the change in their spouse or their partner and things come around to where it's really nice. But you're right, there are times where the situation is such that it takes two It takes two people for that unity to come together and for both of them willing to really look inside and what is it that I need to personally change. I love how you talked about NLP because you know what I think.

29:41 As I was working with small businesses. For a while as a business consultant, one of the questions I'd asked was, you know, where do you want to be in your business? And I've kind of reversed that now into where do you want to be in life? And so you talked about it, here's my dream, here's where I want to be. All right, if you want to be there, what's the previous step that needs to be there? Well I boo boom boom boom boom. Okay, well what's the previous step before that? And what's the previous step before that? And all of a sudden you get back to that innate clarity of you know what, there's something there that is motivating me that is not what I want. And that's where NLP comes in so handy.

30:26 What have you found is you've used NLP in helping people? What does it do for them? Sometimes it's about because in the metaphysical world, our thoughts project and pull into our field what we're thinking, and a lesson wouldn't realize this, right, Like just thinking that all the time is creating that reality around you. And often our outside world is a reflection about inside world. If you start to catch those thoughts, then it can be a really powerful way to start to change that inside world. Or even being curious, why am I thinking that I have actually done that from myself and start to go okay, well why does that need to be?

31:09 Why is that the program? Where does that come from? Let me start to shift that. I even use something even simpler and I just go cancel, cancel, cancel. When it's a thought I don't want to think about, I cancel it out. I'm like, no, not having that, and that's enough to shift it. But I've done a lot of work to get to that point, you know, But if it comes back again, then I'm like, oh, okay, there's something deeper we have to go. So a lot of time where clients are used something called theater healing where we will go in and reprogram beliefs and we you do that through n OLP programming at the same time. But it's all about okay, well here's your belief what would you like it to be? Instead? Oh, we can change it. It's like, yeah, you can change anything. Where the master creators of our universe, right like, we can create everything that we want to and sometimes we forget we have this power. We truly do. You get everything around us is our creation. We're creating it. So when it comes back to working with clients, it's like, okay, well, how can we shift that? You know, where is it?

32:10 So sometimes I have to go deeper and we might do some inner child work, But a lot of the time it's about, all right, here's the thought process that you're having. What can we do to counteract that? And what can we do to create a balance so that your nervous system isn't defaulting to the old negative programming all the time, all those thoughts that you're having about yourself. And the beauty is when I work with clients is I just trust wherever I'm led, you know, I trust, Like, okay, well we need to unpack this. This is deeper than just some NLP work. We have to go back to the root cause or sometimes it's like, oh, let's just reprogram that, and they're like what, I'm like, Yeah, let's just do it. Let's throw in some tapping, let's go for it. Let's see what that looks like on the other side. And you know, a lot of the time, too, gratitude practice don't underestimate the our of gratitude, Like it's so amazing how that can bring people back to themselves as well, especially when they're in that state where they feel like nothing's going right in their life. It's like, all right, well, let's start to contrast that, what can we be thankful for right now? And where in our life can we have forgiveness as well for ourselves because often we are our own worst critic, right and we are out the one that pulls ourselves down more than those around us.

33:26 So one of the things that has always fascinated me. And when I had my dental practice, you know, people would come in and this was just kind of a side of what I did working on teeth. They'd come in out I've got headaches about major you know issues here, And I said, so, what do you think the problem is? And they say, well, I have TMJ and I'm going no, you have two one here and one here temporal mandibular joint. Now what's your problem? Well, I have headaches and okay, so let's get to the red cause. And I find is so often, you know, we talk about reality versus perception, and particularly as a child, you know, their perception is what creates their beliefs and yet their perception and we find this one, we do NLP and go back and realize that, Okay, here's your perception, but what was reality? What was really happening? Or what could we assume was reality? I had I had a client that I worked with that we did the NLP.

34:30 We went back. He was making terrible decisions, and we went back to early childhood elementary school where his teacher was particularly cruel. And as we went through that and he realized, what has nothing to do with me not being good enough, It had everything to do with that personality and emotional state of that teacher. It changed his whole perception into reality, and it changed the decisions he was making to being very successful. How do you help people to differentiate between reality and perception? I mean, we see this today. I see it, well, I don't know what's going on in Australia, but I see it in the US. Oh my goodness, the perceptions that people have versus the reality. How do you help people to move from perception to reality?

35:24 A good question? Uhh yeah, definitely. Well, you know my favorite is my clients that come to me and they're like, oh my goodness. I'm talking to this person on social media and she hasn't responded to my message yet, but she's talking to everyone else. Will she respond to my message? And I'm like, I don't know why. And then the message that always comes through from that person's from my intuition, will be why do you care so much? Like why are you putting all your energy into this perceived reality of what you think is happening. Some times it's easier to stay in the dream than actually come back to reality, and especially a lot of the times, people forget to mourn the dream that that didn't happen, you know, they forget to grieve. You know, Okay, I built this house. I was going to live here forever, and now I'm not.

36:16 I need to grieve that dream I had to go through that, you know, I married somebody, And now they like, we actually grew apart, we didn't grow together. I need to mourn that and allow the time and that. And then they forget to find the blessing in that too, So then they will also create the stories around how bad that person was to justify their decision instead of maybe you just weren't feeling that anymore. And that's okay. You know, why do you have to have the justification there? You know, why do you have to have all these things? So often the perception is because they're still stuck in a reality that hasn't happened, or it's a reality they created in such a way just from you know, might be technologies talking, or they just let their dreams not be anchored into what right in front of them. So it's okay to dream and have their visions and everything, but if you actually haven't spoken to the other person, then that's not really grounded in truth, is it. You know?

37:12 And this is what I teach people. Sometimes we have to come back to our truth as well, because our version of the truth might be different to the next persons and the next person's, But if it feels real and right to you, then check in with what's going on around you. And like you said, sometimes it is that perception of oh, you know, my husband stopped talking to me. It's like, well, did you ask him why? Oh no, okay, Well how about you be a little bit vulnerable and have that conversation. So sometimes it's about teaching people it's okay to open your heart and be a bit more vulnerable and put up all the walls and assume the worst, because that is where our imagination and our ego can often go on a galloping stampede, and sometimes we have to pull it back and go okay.

37:57 You know. This is why sometimes anchoring and being presents really powerful, because when you're present in the moment and actually looking what's happening around you, you're not being judgmental from things that happened in the past. You're not getting anxious and going into overwhelmed because you're worried about the future. But practicing the part of being present can be enough to bring you back to oh, okay, now maybe things aren't as bad as I'm perceiving, or maybe you know, I can have that conversation now because I've actually found a moment where I can breathe and realize I am where I am. And I was on a panel the other way and someone said, be where your feet are, and I was like, Oh, how powerful is that? Be where your feta. Instead of getting lost in all the misconceptions that we can have in the perceptions we're creating, being where your feet are can bring you back to reality really really quickly.

38:47 Well, and you know, it's it's interesting you talk about communication and you talk about vulnerability, and you know, it's so interesting that we're so fearful of being vulnerable enough to have a communication with individuals, whether it's our partner or why or you know, our husband, whatever that happens to be. And yet even that communication with ourselves, you know, and as you've been talking, you're talking a lot about the communication that you have had with you and you know, and how that made such a difference. And I think it's so important that we recognize that, you know what, communication is so key? But communication, what are we telling ourselves?

39:29 And is that true? And then why don't we allow ourselves to be vulnerable enough to communicate with those that are important to us and say, hey, you know what, this is how I'm feeling, and I take and I think this is a key. I take responsibility for this. So often we get into that communication and it's like, look, Catherine, this is how I'm feeling and it's all your fault. And you know that that's not the way to communicate. But to be able to take responsibility and say, you know what, these are my feelings and it has nothing to do with anything other than me, and I recognize that I take responsibility for that. I think that opens up the ability for that vulnerability on the other individual to be able to understand and not push back because they feel like they're being blamed for it.

40:19 One hundred percent. And we have this kind of weird innate programming in us that we want to win. We want to win the conversation. Yes, we want to win the battle, but why not have a win win win? Why can't everybody win an exactly. I love what you said, doctor Doug about being accountable for your own emotions and saying, yeah, this is how I feel when this happened. I felt this way because of X, Y, and Z without using the word you. And I learned this very early on. When you use the word you, you did this, you trigger correct the other person. That's right, they are already like I did what and their deference her up right, You've already shut down the ability to actively listen to because you went into the blaming kind of role.

41:07 So this is where exactly like you said, taking that radical responsibility for your emotions and for you because in the end, the only thing we can control is ourselves. We can't control other people. You know, it's really about coming back to what can I do for me and what can I do to work on me to create a new reality around me. Well, and I love that. I think that's kind of a final message that I would take for this podcast and for the audience today. So how do people find you? And do you work internationally or strictly in Australia and how do people find your book? Yeah, thank you, doctor Doug. Now I work most of my clients are weekly in America, so.

41:52 I wonder why. So you can hang out go to my website if you like, which is Willowhealing dot org, or you can come find me on Instagram. I do hang out there a bit. Just my handles, Willow Healing sh and my book. You can get through my website if you'd like assigned copy, go through there. Otherwise it's on Amazon, your favorite ebook reader and all those fun places. So and soon hopefully in more bookstores because that is my current goal at the moment. So wonderful, Well, Katherine, thank you so much. This is this has been a wonderful conversation. I think we could go on for hours, but obviously we're not going to. So thank you so much. I appreciate you being on the show, and more importantly, I appreciate that you're making a difference in other people's lives.

42:40 I think that becomes the key. Thank you, doctor Doug, and thank you for allowing me in your space. I truly appreciate the conversation too. Thanks so much. Take care With