From Pediatrics to Soulful Medicine: Dr. Sue McCreadie’s Journey

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0:44 Denzel Washington, welcome to inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to do. The same, Doctor Sue, and I'm going to call you doctor Sue on the show. I know, thank you. It's such an honor to be here. I just I love your your purpose, your mission, I love it all and I'm honored to be here with you. Thank you well, and I thank you. You know. What I find interesting for the audience is to understand what your background is and what brought you what journey brought you to this point where you're doing what you're doing now, because it's certainly different than what you initially started to do.

1:27 Yes, So I initially am I am a medical doctor m D. Trained physician who, yeah, I'm a pediatrician a pediatric position. But from the get go, doctor Doug, I was a little out of the box anyhow, because I went through the traditional training and I stayed on an extra year as the chief resident, which was a great year to kind of expand myself as a teacher and a leader, and also to really get clear about what I wanted to be in the world. And I really realized that I wanted to do this kind of holistic thing. I had taken an elective fourth year in med school, and that was even divine because I would have never taken this elective and alternative medicine unless my friend who was taking an elective, and you know, I was seeking an elective in pediatric neurosurgery of all things, because I really admired I really admired this woman neurosurgeon. She's the first African American neurosurgeon. I mean, she's just like one of those people you were just people mistook her for the janitor. She's so humble with her patients, and I was just like, I just want to be around her.

2:34 I just want to learn from Her name is Alexis Kennedy. And so I said, okay, I'll I said to my friend, Okay, I'll do this alternative medicine rotation with you, and how about you do this one pediatric neurosurgeon one with me. And he said okay. And you know what's so wild, Doctor dud I became an alternative medicine practitioner. She became a neurosurgeon. I believe that, which is not a small becoming a neurosurgeon. And so I love how our paths just crossed, and like he seated something for me that I was never even thinking about, and I seated something for him, and that, to me is just like such a beautiful gift. So yeah, I started out in traditional pediatrics, and from the get go I decided to launch my own pediatric practice, primarily because I just didn't see myself fitting into the traditional medicine paradigm. You know, I saw a lot of kids falling through the cracks of standard medicine.

3:30 You know, I think it's amazing what we did. My favorite place, you know, was in the ICU actually, because I thought, that's just so powerful. How we help these kids who are on desk doorstep, you know, just close the drain and you know, pop them back up and walking back out the door. It's just amazing, miraculous. And I also saw kids who just continuously, you know, kind of circled through the emergency room door. You know, we'd patch them up and send them home, and then back again they would come. And so I really gave that perspective as a chief resident, and so I decided to really you know, commit and just jump two feet in. So off I went to the races and my own practice, and in medicine, like you know, and unlike in dentistry, I feel like you guys are trained how to run a practice right, like business is part of your training.

4:20 Not really, No, it wasn't back then. I don't know about it now, but it wasn't. I don't know about it now either because I'm in my twenty third year of practice. But we were not. We were not trained in how to you know, run a business right. And I remember, like in the very beginnings being like I think I was applying for something or you know, so if you fill out all this paperwork and all this stuff, you don't know how to do. And I just had this like real moment of like I can't do this, and then I just heard this very powerful voice outside of me being like, yes, you can, like just let's go right. So I did it, and I just feel like how I evolved from pediatric physician focusing on nutrition for kids too now working with women in their forties, fifties, and sixties as a transformation expert, you know, like a life coach. I feel like the real way that I got here is kept following the breadcrumbs, you know, And it didn't really make a lot of sense a lot of the time. But there's so many times my husband's like, okay, I still believe, but how is this all coming together? Because it was all over the map. Like I actually created four different types of ways for different businesses to serve women, and none of them were really kind of meeting the mark. Either I thought it was great and they were like no, thank you, or they wanted this and I was like, Nope, don't want to do that, and so I finally just put

5:51 it down. I finally just said, God, I don't know. I've really worked at this, you know, for years and years probably at that time by like fifteen years in trying to figure out how to serve women, and I just put the whole thing down. I was like, Okay, I'm going to just semi retire. I'm going to finish off this pediatric gig and then you know, have fun with my husband and my expanding family because we have three daughters who are teens and young adults. And it was within a few weeks, if not a few months of saying I'm done that, I got another breadcrumb and I followed it and within you know, next thing I knew, I was in a three day Suminar. Next thing I knew, I was in a year long program. Next thing, you know, I'm a coach and I'm coaching women and it's been amazing.

6:38 Like I really felt like, wow, I hit my second calling. You know, my pediatric calling is definitely my first. You know, I love children, and my purpose with women is still with children. Like I really love teaching these you know, mindset, emotional mastery, skill sets and frameworks for women so that the ripple fact is to their children and their grandchildren. Well, and that's amazing. You know what what caused me to smile when you were talking about that is, you know, I just finished an interview and one of the things you were talking about is stillness. And one of the quotes we'll use it was, you know, be still and then depending on your theological background, but be still. And it's like when you finally became still, it came to you, which which I find so fascinating. Now, you know, and I know this is not the topic we're going to talk about, but I'm curious. With the nutritional focus with children on pediatrics, have you found that that has made such a difference in their health?

7:40 Oh? Wow, absolutely, I'm still blown away to this day and I've been doing it for twenty three years and I'm still amazed, Like wow, you take rooton out of the diet or dairy out of the diet or you know, and it's just like, huh, like that happened? You know. I mean the way that I see it, I really help them kind of get the plan. You know, this is your best anti inflammatory diet. These are the key nutrients you're low in. And then I set them on a plan and it's the parents who do the work right patients and persistence and daily consistency, which is the hardest of it all, and they get results. You know, I'm just amazed, truly, truly amazed. Yeah. Well, and then that's that's so cool. So it's interesting because I noticed in your bile that you thought about becoming a psychiatrist. You know what I find well, I find funny is when I was in pre dent, uh you know, I actually only was in undergrad for three years. I got accepted a year earlier. Wow, but I was I was at the point where I was almost completely out of money, and it's like, you know what, I really enjoy psychology, And I thought, Okay, if I'm going to apply to one dental school, if I get in, I'm going to school after three years. If not, I'm going to change my major. Well, I got accepted to Northwest in the rest's history. But it's interesting how ultimately you end up in another area for me, the same as you, you know, coaching people, working with people, transformational

9:12 type of stuff. So I find that curious. It's kind of like I became my own type of psychiatrist exactly. I became I became the practical psychologists in a way, because what happened was it's true, I love psychology. I love human behavior. I've always loved it. I've loved I've read self development books even in my teens and young adult. And then I majored in biopsych because I was like, how do I get this pre med thing done but really focus human behavior than any hard side. Well, oh it's great. Yeah, because I was like, why am I going to Why do I want to be this medical doctor anyhow? Because I don't really like that's not my passion. My passion isn't science. My passion is human behavior. My passion is helping. Passion is like relationships, like being of service, and so yeah, I once I got to my site rotation, I was just like, wow, this is not what I thought it was going to be, you know, and I don't know what it is now, but my experience of it then was this is a lot of medical management.

10:18 Like I just I really felt like I didn't know how I would be of best service there basically, and I've always loved kids. So yeah, now I feel like, wow, this is coming full full circle. I get to do you know human behavior and their like therapy through coaching. Well, and what's interesting is here you are an MD, and you you're doing the life coaching, and you're doing that type of thing, and in my opinion, probably all the studying you've done, all the extracurricular stuff that you've done to get your certifications whatever, is just as important and as good as having gone to school. And I found that I found that too true. You know, it's true.

11:01 I'm really like I can really if you're not, if you're listening to this, like my eyes are actually tearing up because I've carried like so much shame around, like what's wrong with me? What's wrong with me? Right? And maybe some listeners have felt that way too, Like when you're taking this really strange, you know, fascinating, extraordinary path, you know a lot of times and you're not following what everybody else is doing, the common thing is to say, what's wrong with me? Like why can't I just fit into the box? You know, And so for you to say that really validates to me, like it is worth it, It is extraordinary, it is exceptional. I have learned a lot, you know, and really being able to put all the different frameworks you know, together and also know when I'm not able to help someone when they're clearly fitting into another box. I think is so I'm really grateful for that well, and.

11:54 I think it's important for the audience. I know when I first moved to Utah and I decided I was also doing small business coaching at that time, but then I thought, well, I'll do a little bit of personal life coaching also, and I found that they were a diamond dozen. I was in a bunch of networking groups and it's like Holy Cow. And the reason I said this to you is because I think your experience, I know it was true for me too, my experience in dental school, I mean medical school, dental school, it was not easy. You really you really had to work hard. You had to understand how to be curious and learn and so forth. And then all of a sudden, moving into an entirely different area, you will apply those same rigors that you learned in graduate school and apply that, and all of a sudden you are at the level of an MD in your own area. Now only there is no degree there. It's just a sort of vcation.

12:52 How interesting you say that, doctor dry, because I you know, working in this area I've often gotten a feedback like, wow, so you really manifest the lot period and now meaning like when I say I'm going to do something, like there it is, I've done it, you know. And now that you're seeing that, what I'm realizing is what training as a medical doctor really is so rigorous that I probably learned a lot of skill sets there about how to get her done, you. Know, absolutely absolutely, So question soulful meditation, Where did you come up with that name? Oh, soul medicine. I'm sorry, soulful medicine. It was an evolution actually through a lot of writing and journaling, and I was creating a quiz, which the quiz is on my website now and oh what did you get?

13:49 Well, I'll tell you later. I'm so excited. There are there are men who take my quiz and they're so sweet, Doug, because usually they are like men in or seventies or so, and they're just following along and they'll hit reply and be like, Sue, this is amazing. That's like so glad, you're so nice. It's very comforting. Yeah, So, soulful medicine, it was just an evolution. I'm like, oh, that's what I'm really up to like, I was really trying to figure out what is this quiz delivering, and I came up with the name of soulful medicine, and we call it your Soulful Medicine Cabinet. Now, my library of resources is called your Soulful Medicine Cabinet, which I'm like, that's such a great play for a medical doctor. Your medicine cabinet is soulful.

14:34 But soulful medicine, to me, is not all rainbows and unicorns, like soulful medicine is anything that sculpts your soul or fills your soul. So soulful medicine feels good, you know, when it's expanding you. It feels joyful. It's things that bring you happiness and pleasure. Soulful medicine also can be sculpting your soul like my miscarriages, you know, is soulful medicine. Because what was happening through that fascinating package of loss and multiple loss over and over again, I learned something amazing. First, my soul grew incredible empathy for loss and how to sit with other people and loss right when you've lost life over and over again. And also though I actually learned a real practical thing in medicine that I've applied to hundreds, if not thousands of children in my practice that had I not gone through that, I would have not learned that to be able to pass it on.

15:31 So I feel like soulfil medicine also grows you so that then you can turn around and be of service to another as well. Okay, so you talk about loss, Explain it if you don't mind being a little bit yes parent here, Explain what were the losses that you experienced, because obviously that has helped you to get where you're at yet. So the major loss that I've experienced in my life are losing babies. And that process happened. Never expected it, right, like I you know, you're a newly weed, we're newly married, we're pregnant. I'm like, yeah, we're having a baby, like here starts our family. And unfortunately we lost that first baby and so I wasn't expecting that, so that was super traumatic. And also though then I I then, you know, we would get pregnant again, and then we would lose the baby again, and then it actually happened a third time, like to be pregnant and then we lost it, and I felt like, first of all, I was really pissed at God. I was like so pissed. I was like, wait a minute, you know, I start starting ting like plating fingers, like like that actually matters. I was so pissed.

16:41 I was like, I've devoted my life to kids. I want to be a mom. I've always wanted to be a bob, you know, and these babies were just flipping through my fingers. But I had a very vivid dream. I had a series of vivid dreams, and when I saw the first one come true, I knew the second one was true too, and the third one is still in rapt So this dream from like series of dreams from well, my oldest is about to turn twenty one, so this is from twenty plus years ago. But I had a series of very powerful dreams. And the second dream, the first dream, yeah, was something that would happen to a friend, and she called me the next day and told me it happened. And I was like, oh my gosh, like that's real and it was really out of the box, like this was like how is this even possible? And it happened. So it's like, okay, listen, to this dream.

17:28 The second dream was I was a patient, Doug. I was a patient in this dream, I was in one of those robes, you know, the open front robe, and I was in kind of like a setting with an open room with a bunch of patients in it, and the nurses, knowing that I was a doctor, asked me to get up, and they took me from bedside to bedside and we were showing me the labs that you know that show that you're you know, clotting labs basically, right, these labs. It kept on showing me pt PTT pt PTT pt PTT right, and I was like, I woke up and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm cladding off these babies. I need to start on a baby aspirin.

18:11 That's literally what I came up with. And I didn't know the science behind what was happening or why was clouding off these babies, but I knew that I needed to start on a baby ass for in that day, and I did. I started on a baby asprint. I also got a lot of other support, you know, from medical doctor acupuncturists, you know, slapping on the hormone. So I did a lot of things, you know, it wasn't just that. And also I later learned that the physiological problem that I was having is something that's passed on through generation and confect all sorts of bodily systems, not just clotting cardiovascular, and you know, in my case miscarriages, it can translate to all these other problems. And I see a lot of them and kids, and now I'm able to help them. So I didn't need know what was going on. But yeah, that powerful dream, I was like, boom, I get to you know, do this and lo and behold our oldest came. She's there, And really, to me, like the whole lesson of that loss is believed. Because the craziest thing was is that even though I had lost after loss, it was like with each loss, I was like, oh, I'm almost there, Like, oh, I believe this is really going to happen, you know, and my obi guing one of my best days from college is in you know, women's health doctor. She said, Sue, listen, you're halfway there. Like the hardest part can be just like getting it planted, right, Like getting pregnant is half

19:43 of the battle. Right. So yeah, so I had a lot of encouragement and finally our oldest came. So the second, yeah, go ahead. Isn't it amazing when we experience these losses? How and you say, the initial reaction is you know, I hate God and there is even there And then ultimately, with awareness and mindfulness, you look back at that and realize, you know what, that was a lesson that has brought me to this point that now I'm able to pass on to others. Others absolutely, and I think so often people if they could just understand when they were going through that, because we all do go through all those type of things, that there's a reason behind it if we look for the gratitude rather than the victimhood, that ultimately we can see where it has given us value to be able to touch the lives of others, which I think is fast. Yeah, So, as you're working with women forty fifteen sixty, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

20:45 Go ahead and finish her well. I want to say. The other loss I experience is a second trimester loss, which really felt something very different because at that point I delivered the baby at home, we went to the hospital. The baby didn't come home with us from the hospital, right. So it was a very different loss, and I think the lessons from that I learned about, you know, how we grieved differently, Like my husband grew very differently than I did, you know, so appreciating that, appreciating like the nurses there were like angels. I was like, oh my gosh, they treated this baby like she was alive, you know. And so I gave me such appreciation for hospitals in the medical setting and people treating others with such care. And you know, it gave me a big belief in the divine timing of everything, because the day I lost that baby, I was a due date for our middle child, you know, the one who came after this, and so I was like, whoa, Like, how did that happen?

21:54 Fascinating? So that gets fascinating. Those are the lessons from that. Well, when when you're working with women now in their forties, fifties, and sixties, for the most part, what do you find the biggest challenge is that they're facing. Is there some common themes that come with that that you find out? Right, you know, I'm gonna here a four to five things that I'm constantly facing with these women or these women are facing well, I. Think the biggest umbrella is change. That's what they're facing is change, and how that change shows up can show up in all different ways. I mean, change can show up and I've been divorced for a decade and i still haven't dated. You know, there's someone who's stuck, right, or change can happen in I've been married to this person and I actually don't like, you know, this is not this is not healthy for me, for our kids, or for anyone, you know. So definitely relationships, but also relationships in terms of like, wow, we've been married. We really do love each other, but we're like we you need a little zip back, you know, like where's our spark?

23:04 You know, especially when the kids are gone and you're looking at each other like who are you right? You've been both also focused on the kids, and there's definitely relationships in terms of kids, right, So now that are young adults and maybe the young adults coming back and moving in the house, right and he wants to be independent, but yet you're like, dude, you're not the independent because you're living in our house. So there's definitely relationships under the change umbrella. There's obviously physiological changes as well. And I don't do you know, hormone therapy or any of the medicine type component, but I do help women feel through the emotional process of that. I kind of think of it like second adolescence, where you know, first adolescence is like hormones. Everybody's been through that. Like you feel awkward, your body's changing all of a sudden, You're emotional where you maybe weren't before. Like you just feel really unsettled, right, and your identity is changing. So a lot of these women are maybe winding down their first career and thinking about starting a passion project or maybe figuring out, well, who am I if I'm not the mom? You know, like these kids don't really need me anymore? Now what am I? Like? What's my purpose?

24:14 Now? That makes sense? Do you find that there's a different mental culture between those women who are still married and happy this is those that have gotten divorced and are now single or whatever that happens to be. Do you find that there's a difference in mentality and emotional direction with that? I think what I see mostly because I believe, like all relationships are sacred. They're all teachers, right, and it's just like when when When does the state? When does a sacred contract end? You know? And are you just hanging on when you should have like parted ways? Right? I actually don't think of them as much different. What I do see is patterns, you know, patterns of codependency, patterns of overgiving or people pleasing yeah, and patterns of like mixed boundaries. Usually what happens is in that in the first phase of relationship, of relationship go through four phases in a lifetime. In the first phase, these relationships that are are not they're stuck. They haven't moved beyond, like you know, after the romance fizzled, right, and all of a sudden you're like, oh, you're human too. Dang, I thought my night shining farm or you're perfect. Turns out you're imperfect. I'm imperfect. And then what happens is we have a power struggle. And power struggles are actually really healthy, Like my husband and I have power struggles.

25:46 They're fun, they're playful. Right when you're dynamic and shifting, it feels good, it feels like stabilizing for everyone. But what happens is a lot of these women who are in these relationships that are either you know, yeah. One not healthy want to leave or stuck is that they're stuck in a power struggle. And you can be stuck in a power struggle even after divorce. Oh yeah, yeah, Well, and your quiz was interesting, and I will I will say to my own defense because when it came, when it came up with the with the answer is like yeah. But when I went through there, I'm going, you know what, these these really are focused on women? That the questions really were and yes, and I tried to answer some of them, how would I think?

26:31 And others are like, all right, this is it? But I realized that you know you you call them mamas. So what are what are the three or what are the four or the five categories? I call them mamas. And that doesn't mean you have to have bird the child. A mama is a wise midlife woman, a wise woman in her forty fifties or sixties, right, And so the four different types are visionary, inspirational, giver in detail, and the visionary mama. And this, by the way, is like following the disc profile, which if you've ever taken you know a personality I am. I am certified in the advantages. That's why I was curious because I'm looking at that going, Okay, that's not the result for me would have been that I was kind of a S.

27:26 Doug is not liking his results, and that's not me. Hey, Doug, though, I think it is you actually like an S is you right now? An S in? This is like a giver? Okay, So let's go through the four types. Okay, the first type is, by the way, when you're doing personality. The reality is that we all have all of these. It's just that our majority kind of we kind of hang out in one area or two areas more than the others. So we all have all of these and notus. And the idea is that each one of it has its gifts, and usually with the gift, you got the greatest downfall of it. Let's go through them. So visionary visionary mamas are like, you know, they're like the Beyonces of the world.

28:08 I'm going to talk in female language, dig ahead. They're like the Beyonces of the world. They're like twirl on them haters, you know, like they're like Gwyneth Peltrow. They're just like owning it, Like here I am in all my glory. You don't like it too bad, you know, like this is where I'm going, and we all look at them like we like bow down to them. We're like, whoa, how does she do that? You know? And so that's the upside of her, Like the visionary mama, very confident, very visionary, very knows where she's going. The downfall of she can bowl people over in the way, like she trashes relationships because she's so on her vision you know, and not consciously. We're not like consciously doing this. It's all like subconscious patterns of like not for her, Like vulnerability feels like a weakness. Vulnerability is actually where we connect.

29:01 We connect your vulnerability. The relationships can be a real challenge for the visionary mama. Inspirational mohammas are the sparkly souls of the universe. They're everything's you know, shiny. Like my nickname is like Sunshine Susie, right, Like it's just like you're sparkly, you're fun, you're always looking for the positive. People come to you because they want to hear the upside of something crappy going on, and you've got it, you know. The downside of the visionary mama is she follows a lot of sparkles, so like distraction, you know, it diffuses her energy instead of moving forward, she can just be spinning around all these shiny things. And men and for men, if you're married to that. They talk a lot.

29:43 They do talk a lot. They do talk a lot. They love to talk. The chatters. Yes, like we like to talk, like tell me about your day, how's it going? Like you know. So then the giver mama give her mamas are what they say, like giving is as easy as breathing to them. You know, they're the people who you want to come to and they just give you a warm hug. They don't have to say a lot. They're great, phenomenal listeners. They do not have to be center stage whatsoever. They're happy to just be present in the room and give you the love that you need. And their downfall, though, is they can become doormats. They overgive and codependent and codependent as a big one. So I work with a lot of giver mamas. Okay, and then and then the last one is the detailed mama.

30:35 And she is the one who's got all the flipping spreadsheets. You know, she's the organizer. She's the one who comes down. I always say, the divine is in the details. She's like organizing the car pool, she's organizing the next trip. You know, she's organizing your closet. She'd come over and organize your refrigerator happily. You know, she's just very organized. The problem is regimented. The problem is that if she's so regimented, her life can get a little dry. Like she needs some sparks, she needs some fun, you know. So I okay, so Doug is not hapvy because it sounds like he got a giver. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why because again, you know, I'm I do this and it's obviously I'm actually what you would call a visionary detail. So I'm I'm a d C. Okay, yeah, okay, But but with the one that I use, which is goes well beyond just the standard disc they get into values, motivators, all of that type of thing. Yeah, with the company that I got trained with, trained in and for me my motivator, then is that spiritual, that giving that type of thing. So what I have found oftentimes is, in fact it was fun. I took Tony Robbins. I you know, here goes my curiosity, but I'm going, okay, taken, I've done this one, so I know where I'm at because it gets into the whole innate personality, your social personality,

32:08 who you think you should be, and then you get into your conscious personality. So anyway, I did that, and when I did it with Tony Robbins, I found, you know what, that's my social personality, that's who I think I should be. That's what they came up with. And so I find it interesting that when I was answering those questions, I was answering it more of values than I was the other time. And that's why I came in. I think that's why I came in as a giving mama. Because you know I love though too is because people when I do this, they're like, wait a minute. And so like for me, I would say in general, like I'm inspirational giver. My giver comes out most with my family, my patients, my clients, right in general, like I'm always really positive. I can sometimes be like people are just like, how can you be that?

32:58 Right? So maybe out to the world, I'm that. In my business, obviously, I need to pull in some visionary right otherwise I'm not going anywhere. So I do think and like my lowest is detail, but I surround myself and I hire detail. So to me, like using a quiz like this or even advanced ones like doctor doug Uses is like knowing your strengths, you know, illuminates your weaknesses and then you can hire them, which is what I've really focused on, like in hiring detail mamas to help me run the business well. And it starts the process of that internal evaluation, which I think is what makes us so great. It's never totally accurate, I'm the first to admit that, but yeah, but what it does is it starts the conversation and as you get into that just like we were just doing there now and I'm going yeah, from that standpoint, yeah, I'm a giver mama. But the reality is is that was based on those values that I have developed over the years. But I found the same thing that when I was working with women, a lot of them ended up in the giver in the the yes, yeah, what the discs yes.

34:06 So I worked with a lot of giver moments and some detailed moments too, because I think details are like, wow, you look like you're having a lot of fun. I know, yeah, don't even tell me about it. But so so as you look at that, how do you help these women the challenges that they're facing. Obviously, if they're a giver U they're probably not always, but I would assume a lot of them are in relationships that they shouldn't be in. They're kind of codependent, as you mentioned, how do you help them to either change that relationship to where they're not codependent and they've set some boundaries, or they realize that, you know what, this is not for me, particularly if they're experiencing emotional or physical abuse.

34:53 Yes, which I have worked with as well, and you know, so here's how I do this Because you mentioned Tony Robbins. Tony Robbins is someone that I've been learning from for the past, you know, five years or so, and I use a ton of the frameworks that he's taught me. One of the frameworks that comes to mind when we're talking about there's so many, but I mean, like, for instance, I don't know if you've heard of the six human Needs frameworks six human Needs Psychology framework, which is that all humans share the six human needs, and so I'll use things like that, or I also talk about patterns. So patterns are a big thing, like see the pattern. This isn't you, it's a pattern. Where does the pattern come from?

35:35 Right? Which is how I can usually help someone who's in a codependent or an unhealthy kind of relationship. Dynamic really hard to start to understand, Like, wow, that got kind of messed up. I don't know if you've ever read that book What Happened to You? It's written by a psychiatrist and with oprah Rimfree basically going back and forth. But it's really easy way to understand the physiology trauma. And so I often kind of go back to those principles as well, because inherently, when someone's in like an abusive relationship and they're still hanging out, it's because it's still meeting one of their human needs. And even though you look at them and be like why do you stay there, it's because it's certainty for them. They know that they can gain certainty from this, and we all have a need for a certainty. So I acknowledge that, like I have a need for certainty too. I get why you would want to be certain, Like it's you're certain it's going to be uncomfy, but you are certain of that, versus stepping away from that is massive uncertainty and feels really destabilizing. So you start to talk about patterns, you start to put it into frameworks. It creates a lot of space, so it's less about something's wrong with me.

36:46 And this is a pattern that I've you know, either picked up learned from in childhood, you know, et cetera. So as you're working with moms, I know, one of the things you talk about is how do you help a mom and how does it help her children if you help her not to be a particular way with her. Okay, there's a supermom. Yeah, oh my gosh, yeah, the supermom. So not the supermom definitely. I was like, I'm going to fail at the supermom, and my kids are going to be stronger for it, for sure, because you raise independent kids and you are there to support them, you know, and then they thank you for it too, which is what happened this morning right before I jumped on you know. It's like, but a supermom's side. You asked about like the ripple, the ripple effect, and this is how the ripple effect works. Okay, so I'm thinking about one woman she's now that I've worked with for you know, a few years now at least, and she's now in her sixties, so she has adult children who also have children. That means she's a grandma now, yeh.

37:54 And in one of the marriages of her children, there's been infidelity. And that felt like a rug just got pulled underneath this grandma, like she was not expecting that that was, you know. And also she's helping that child navigate through that, Like what does that mean? Right? And so again I pulled out the six human needs framework, which is we all share the same six human needs the need for certainty, comfort, and pleasure, the need if we have too much of that, we get bored. So we also have the need for a variety. We have the need for significance, which is to be seen and heard and needed. We have the need for love and connection on conditional acceptance, belonging. We have the need for growing mentally, emotionally, spiritually. And then giving her contribution. And so I just went back again to the principles that we've already learned before with her, and I said, think about these two individuals where infidelity happened, what are their top two needs. So we did that again. Are they meeting them inside the marriage or are they meeting them outside the marriage? And as plain as day, they're meeting them outside the marriage, right, And so when you put it into a framework like that, all becomes kind of neutral, you know, and instead of thinking like I'm a bad mom because this happened, you have been for my child, and now what's going to happen to these grandkids? Right?

39:17 Instead you really shift it. And by the end of that she said, maybe this is the most beautiful thing that has ever happened for this for their marriage, and maybe they have the potential to actually grow closer through this and teach these you know, to their children. Yeah, so as you talk about, you know, it's the best thing for your kids not to be a supermom, and all this here working with women who still may have some children, but a lot of times they don't. And yet how many young women who are now moms, you know, in their late twenties their thirties that need to understand how their behavior and how their personal transfer ma and all of that can affect their children in a way that it gives their children a much better chance of independence and making good decisions.

40:10 Yeah, as I always said, I've never read a parenting book. I've just continuing to like work on myself, you know. And the more I work on myself, because everything's a mirror and all relationships, you know, are mirrors, then parenting has become easier. Parenting has become more and flow. Parenting has really taught, like I see all of it as such a great opportunity versus like an incredible responsibility. So yeah, as you look as you look at are most of the women that you're working with single or are they still married or is it even it's a. It's a mix, you know, and some of them have never been married, you know. Some of them I'm married and divorced. Some of them, I'm married and want to be divorced. Some of them are married and happily married.

40:59 Okay, So do you do try to help those women who were not happy to redevelop that relationship before divorce or do you find that in many cases is it a point where they need to understand that they can get divorced and still be happy. Yeah, I think it's really the primary message that I always give to them is not about the timing of when this gets to happen. The primary message is about loving yourself, like how you've got to because they're never going to leave or stay and shift the marriage if they don't first love themselves. How do they do that? How do you help How do you help someone? I mean, think about it. I mean we've all grown up, most of us, anyway, you have grown up with these imprints that I'm not good enough, or you know, if you're highly religious. I was born in sined, so I'm sinful, all of these type of things.

41:53 How do you help them to learn to love themselves to the point where all of a sudden it's like, Okay, hey, you know, I really do love myself. And when I do, all of a sudden, you're setting boundaries that are appropriate. Again. I kind of go back to the same thing. I always point back to myself and I say, listen, we all have the same fears. We all have the fear that we're not enough. Because we're not enough, we're not lovable. I also learned that from Tony Rappins, you know, and once you say that, it's like, oh my gosh, because women look at me and they think I'm confident, you know, they think I have it all together. You know that I don't feel like I'm not enough. I'm like, what what are you talking about? Every every day I work on, yeah, just owning myself worth, owning my deserving this, you know. And so the way that I help them do that is to mirror back to them that, like, you know, everybody feels that way. You're not strange or different.

42:54 It's a fundamental flaw of being quote unquote human that somehow you're just not enough and because you're not, you're not lovable. So let's just put that on the table and let's move on, okay, sister, because like that's just is what it is, you know. And also, Doug, it's also about marrying back to them what they are again, like through that, through that quiz, you know, the personality quiz, It's like you have amazing gifts. And that's the thing. Like if it's a giver mama and she's in a co you know, codependent, you know, whether it's with her child or whatever, this mush is if it's at work or you know, with a partner. That's why I love group coaching because I don't only do one on one coaching.

43:36 I do group coaching and group coaching is divine because the other women start marrying. You've got to mix some women in there, some with some visionaries, some with some inspirational other givers, you know, and other details. Right, so you get this dynamic of like, wow, love you so much, and also sister bully, bootstraps up, let's go. That's a boundaries. This is not okay, this is where you end. This is where they begin, you know what I mean. And so having that sometimes in the group studying the medicine, the soulful medicine is just being heard in a safe place, just owning like my saying like wow, I feel like this and that that alone is the medicine and can feel like can bring back self love because when you see another woman feel the same way, you're like, oh, okay, I guess I can love myself even though I feel this way sometimes well.

44:30 And you know, I look at that like you're just kind of taking their hand and walking with them. And I think for people to understand, to find a really good coach or mentor, it's someone who will take your hand and walk with you because they've been through it. And as you say, if you get into a group, you're all joining hands together and helping each other and I love that. Yeah, well we're done. It's like meditation for me. Time going lives is so fast is amazing. So a couple final questions. Number one, if you had a final message for the folks, what would that be?

45:11 In difficult situation when you don't know what to do, ask yourself what love would do? What would love do? And why I say that is because our natural love state is a loving state. And that's why it feels so dang awful when we're resentful or bitter or angry or pissed off or you know, it's like it's because we're disconnected from the part of us that is loving. So by asking yourself a better question, you'll get a better strategy and a better solution. So ask yourself what would love do? And then allow yourself to hear the answer. Because sometimes love would forgive. Sometimes love would set a hard ass boundary this is not okay anymore. Sometimes you know, love would bend. Love would be like, okay, I see I need to flow, I need to flex a little here, right.

46:01 So there's a lot of different answers that can come from that, but I find that that is the most centering, grounding, really like, how do I move forward? Is? What would love do? Perfect? How do people find you? How does the women in their forties, fifties and sixties find you? Come find me at doctor Sue McCready dot com, which is d R s U E M C c R E A d I E dot com. Wonderful. Thank you, doctor Doug. Thank you, this has been wonderful. We could go on fine. I guarantee if I wasn't limited to time, we could go on for another hour, so fun. Thank you for all the work you're doing and all the giving your doing. Giver mama doctor, I appreciate it very much. Thank you.

46:49 At least fortunately I'm not in the codependent relationship, so that's good. Anyway, folks, thanks for listening and south thanks for being on this show. Show folks, have a wonderful week. Join us again soon. This is doctor Doug saying now, mistake