Be the You That’s More You: Healing, Identity & New Beginnings

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0:44 Denzel Washington, welcome to inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to do the same. Kristen, Welcome, Hi doctor, How are you doing good? Hey, I'm excited to have you here. I think that your story is going to be very fascinating for people. And you know, like I always like, I always say, it's so interesting to hear someone's story and see how they have taken that story and become someone who is making a difference for others. And so what I'd love for you to do, is sure your story, go back as far as you need to, and kind of share your story about what brought you to this point of doing what you're doing.

1:31 Yes, I would love to do that. So most recently, I just published a book called Be the You That's more You than You've ever been. And if you want me to circle back to the origins of that book, we actually have to backtrack to nineteen ninety nine. I wrote the book back then and subsequently got into a marriage that was psychologically abusive. And when you're in that kind of manipulation and control, you don't realize it's happening until you're basically nothing. So I did miraculously get out before I was completely gone, and it took a while to settle my nervous system down once I did, and I did that ultimately through meditation. Now meditation takes a lot of forms, but that's what that's what I did, and I started to hear, I started to connect again with my truth, my true self, whatever you want to call it. My true self told me to go find the book I wrote in nineteen ninety nine. I barely remembered I wrote it, but I'm a digital hoarder, and I had it digitally, so I dug it out and the book started with the first chapter was eight exercises, And as I went through the exercises, I realized that what they were designed to do was to and cover your truth, uncover connect you back to your inner voice

3:04 that is all knowing. And I thought to myself, who wrote these exercises? They're brilliant, But I also use them to find my way back to myself. In the process of doing that, through going through the book that I originally wrote then and have now largely rewritten, but kept the same sort of structure goal. So through that process, compounded by meditation and journaling, I was advised my true self, as weird as that may sound, to create something called the Paara More Paradox ecosystem. And the basis of that ecosystem is the book be the you that's more you than you've ever been.

4:00 Wonderful now, you know, And it's interesting what I find interesting, And I happen to come from a theological background, so forgive me if I go somewhere you don't want to go. But what's fascinating to me is this concept. Of the me and all of a sudden, this inspiration or whatever you want to call it that actually comes to us, and I think it's fascinating to know that it's there, it's real, it isn't something that's just made up. That it's true inspiration that is available to you. And as you say, meditation makes a huge difference with that because as you meditate it, it takes you away from all that other external stuff and allows you to kind of tap into that. And I think it's important for people to understand that you know what it's there, and it's there for you, and that's important.

4:56 So let's talk a little bit about what I find it interesting. As I've interviewed numbers of people and even considered this myself. I got I've got four kids, okay, And you know, as we talk about parenting, I always wonder, and I do have discussion with my kids about this, but I always wonder what things did I do as a parent that I wasn't even aware of that might have had an effect on them and their perception to the point that it might not have been a positive experience for them. And we've discovered there are a few of those things. But when you talk about psychological abuse. And I think for a number of people that are listening, both women and men, because men go through the same thing, explain what were some of the things that were going on that number one, really were causing that psychological abuse and number two, why you didn't pick up on that's what was going on.

5:57 That It brings out a deep breath in me because you know, when I tell you that the abuse, anybody who hasn't gone through it, and even some people who are in the midst of it, it doesn't sound like abuse, right. It's not the getting socked in the face. It doesn't leave you know, scars and bruises and cuts and swollen you know, parts of your body. And that is all. I am definitely not downplaying that. I mean, it's awful, it's it's terrible. That being said, it is something you can see, right, psychological abuse is so subtle that and it's designed for you not to see it happening. So examples, and you know, the thing is, it's not it's not any one thing. The things that I tell you are going to be seem so like stupid really, but it's the constant every second of the day, every second of the day, these things happening that whittle away at you so that you just don't exist anymore. So it's things like waking up, bringing a cup of coffee, being told that the coffee is not right or that it could be better. Don't talk until she's had her cup of coffee.

7:18 Once she's had her cup of coffee, I'm allowed to talk, but I have to stop talking at five because that's when the TV comes on and the drinking starts. And we both were guilty of drinking. So it's not not just her. It's the Let me teach you how to clean a cutting board because you don't do it right. Let me teach you how to choose an avocado and then cut the avocado and then serve the avocado. Let me teach you how to what detergent to buy, which changed. When she's depressed, I have to purchase the cheapest products, and when she's in a different state, I have to to do organic, and you know know, so I could never get it right. You know, it's I mean, the list goes on, but it's all these little trivial I used to take pictures of products in the grocery store and text them to her and say, you know, which brand do you want in which flavor? Because if I got it wrong, it wasn't a yell, it wasn't a punch, It was a deep sign eye roll. And maybe you know you waste so much of our money by getting the wrong thing, that kind of thing constant.

8:36 How far this is what fascinates me. And believe me, we have all experiences me too. How far did you get into that relationship before you started noticing things? Or was this from the very get going? You just did not pick up on the red flags? So upon reflection, it was from the get go, but it did amplify as time went on. But the reason I I think I didn't see it. I actually just had this revelation a couple of weeks ago that she used my prior trauma against me. So I had been sexually assaulted and raped when I was young, and I had a lot of fear around safety, my physical safety, and she was a police officer, and so she created a life where I believed in order to be safe, I had to be kept safe by her, and so in effect she turned my abuse into the control mechanism.

9:41 When I was fifty three, so four years ago, I underwent intensive trauma therapy. A lot of people have heard of EMDR. This was done by an EMDR therapist, but it's something called progressive counting, but it's the same sort of thing. It was eight hours a day for six days, and when I left his office, he said to me, now, for the next two years, things are going to change, because you've just set down a huge load. And quite frankly, those words scared me because I didn't want things to change. I mean, change is scary, right, And I also didn't think I had a bad marriage because we never fought.

10:25 But what I didn't realize was we never fought because I was trained to never disagree right. And so over the next two years things did change, and I would have these moments of realizing that it wasn't right, but whenever I did, we actually would have all little conflicts because all of a sudden I wasn't behaving, I wasn't staying in line. So it started early on, it got intensified as time went, and certainly once she started to sense that the grip she had on me wasn't as solid, the control efforts escalated. But in a way that's good, because it escalated to a point where I could actually see it. You know, my dad calls it the frog in the pot, which I'm sure a lot of you have heard of. You know, you put a frog and boiling water, it hops out. You put a frog and water and gently increase the temperature, it boils to death, you know. And that's what my dad called me. It was the frog in the pot.

11:30 Wow. And so at this point in time, what are you doing? What are you doing? Are you retired? Are you coaching people? Are you helping people? What? What are you doing other than bringing forth that book which will be published one where you broadcast this? Yeah? So the book is the foundation of there's sort of two things I'm doing. There's my big passion project, which is the umbrella under which everything else is housed. A pair more paradox. Ecosystem is made up of a book, a journal, an app, T shirts which sound like they don't belong, but they do if you look at what they are, a course which is still under development in a community. And did I mention the app? I think I did. That's not really my money maker, so to speak.

12:27 And I have no idea if it ever will be. It exists because I was told to do it. And I think it will help people. The more career part of what I do is I'm a certified divorce coach and while I work with all populations, straight men, straight women, whatever, my specialty, my niche that I really want to speak to is lesbian women in psychologically abusive marriages. There are some special nuances to worse when you're in a gay relationship. I happen to be a lesbian, so it's easier for me to you know, zero in on that. And there are certainly special nuances that happen in psychologically abusive divorces, and so I have decided to target that group specifically because I think I can bring a lot of special experience.

13:27 But I do work with you know, other people as well. Okay, so, and. You bring up an interesting point because what you're talking about is applicable to straight marriages, whatever, but you're focusing on that lesbian situation and you talk about special nuances. And for those that are listening that may be experiencing this and fit into that category, what are the nuances or someone who is lesbian that is experiencing that. Yes, And I I just realized that is a super important question that I'm going to answer in plenty of detail, but I just realized I didn't clarify a pair. More paradox, the full ecosystem is not gay specific. It's not divorced specific.

14:15 It's about anybody facing that existential question of who am I? So people retiring, empty nesters, you know whatever. So let me put that to the side down to address your questions. So with lesbian relationships, whether they are psychologically abusive or perfectly healthy, we weren't allowed to marry until relatively recently. So for example, I've been married for twenty two years, but the first part of that wasn't legal marriage. We did wind up getting legally married, but it wasn't legal. A lot of women I know lesbian couples don't bother, didn't bother getting married formally because they'd already been in their marriage for ten fifteen years, Like why do we need the piece of paper? So, in either situation, whether it's a committed relationship that was never sanctioned by the government or whether it actually was a formal marriage, some of the nuances that crop up are around the asset division.

15:31 If you aren't legally married, you know, do you really get the proper distribution of assets if you have a child. In some places, and sometimes that could be a pretty serious challenge, the birth mother would definitely be seen as the mother, and the question is whether the other partner is or not. In some cases yes, in some cases no. You compound that with the psychologically abusive component, and this part pertains to straight men straight women, and you are absolutely correct that straight men fay psychological abuse. And that's actually one of the other things is I think a lot of people think women can't be the abusers, and they certainly think women aren't going to abuse other women, right, And so that psychological abuse combined with the female female relationship is even more complicated because people in their community, people in their family and friends, they don't necessarily see that that can happen. And then again with the psychological abuse component, the manipulation and control that was in the marriage doesn't stop, you know, with the divorce that often amplifies,

17:05 and it takes a lot of different shapes in a lot of different forms. And so many people are saying, oh, my spouse is a narcissist or my ex is a narcissist. That now it's being dismissed, and in some cases they really are a narcissist, like in some cases, we all have some narcissistic behavior. We all do. And again, during a divorce, you're not so great traits tend to be the ones that come out. And so I think sometimes the victim, the person that is enduring the abuse, will get discounted by saying they've been psychologically abused, because that's kind of the thing that you say.

17:50 Yeah, and there's sometimes no other explanation. And as you say, a lot of times you don't even know what's going on until finally something happened that you go, oh my goodness, I just I just had no idea. So and again as we get now and even more into the discussion about you know, and we're talking straight relationships, we're talking gay relationships, both. Men and women. And with your paramount with the other thing that you talk about, you brought up some interesting things. You've got the people who all all their kids have left, and so we're talking about change, we're talking I remember listening to a presentation the other day, and the presentation was about new beginnings and realizing that, you.

18:37 Know what, you can always have new beginnings. And I found it fascinating that we don't realize the emotional challenges that occur when change takes place in our life and we're in what we might refer to as a new beginning, whether we have chosen to do that or whether it's a result of something else. Yes, so how does how does someone? How does someone start to deal with that? With which part just the change? Just that? Yeah? So, and again the the book is I didn't I didn't start looking at the divorce coaching until after the book was you know, written and off to get printed.

19:21 Really well sort of anyways, separate things. The book has nothing to do with divorce or any of that. What it does have to do with, and what it's designed to do, is answer that existential question of who am I? People going through divorce tend to ask themselves who am I? People leaving a psychologically abusive marriage definitely are asking who am I? But as we just you know, touched on empty nesters, people facing retirement, even some of the like thirty year olds who graduated from college, you know, eight years ago, they got their first job and they've been at it for five, six, seven years, and they're looking around going, oh my god, is this all there is?

20:10 Like is this, I have this one hundred thousand dollars debt, and is this what I'm going to do the rest of my life? You know. So it's not just people our age, doctor Doug, but it's also you know, it can also be young people, just anybody. In fact, I used to work for a team of cognitive behavioral therapists. So my job was to interview potential clients or patients and match them to the right therapist. And I was floored by how many of these thirty year olds who were in New York City were asking that existential question, you know, and they they would even use that word existential and just trying to figure out who who they are. So, yeah, the I don't even remember exactly what your first question was.

20:58 But yeah, I used to drive my assistance crazy when I had my dental practice because I would ask multiple. Questions and there's like, which one are you talking about? That's one of my trilogies. But but let's go into this. Let's talk about identity. Let's talk and I know, identity collapse in and how do you begin to discover that inner self, that self that really as people talk about it, has that truth, that divinity, that light. How do people get to that point? And and I guess one of the important things is is you talk about you know, whether they're in their thirties or whatever, and thank you for the compliment our age.

21:45 So how do how do people get to the point where they start to discover that? And how important is that in making the changes in their lives that benefit them? Yeah, I mean the only way to have true motivation is to live by live in alignment with your truth. You know, like a lot of people have goals and they talk about I just I have to get motivated to do steps X, Y and z, And if they're having trouble doing that, it's because they're not doing what their truth wants them to do. You mentioned having a theological background and saying he said something about, you know, I don't know if I'll say some things that you don't want me to say or whatever, and I don't know what those things would be. But it's the same thing, you know, God, I call it source, but it doesn't really matter what you call it. It's the there's something that is bigger than me, Like I'm not the boss here, there's something else that's the boss. And the way to get at So for me, what I believe, and I don't impose my blo leaves on anybody, And I think you can believe something totally different and still get value out of my book and my process. But what I personally believe is that we come from source God and we are here to do something magnificent, brilliant, all of

23:18 us are. The gift is or the challenge or that's gift and challenge is to remember what we came here to do. And in order to remember, we have to quiet ourselves. So that first step is quiting the mind. Really, if you're in a trauma place, it takes a lot of work to quiet the mind and certain your nervous system has to settle a little before I think this is even conceivable, and meditation helps with that. But the problem with that word is that the word meditation is that it freaks people out, and a lot of times not it freaks people out because they think they can't do it. There, you know, sort of the you know, general stereotype of meditation, you know, sitting cross legged and saying, oh, you know, that is a really hard kind of meditation, you know, super super hard. And I tried that back when I wrote the book the first time back in the nineties, and I felt like a failure because I could never turn off monkey mind.

24:37 Right. Fortunately, there are more types of meditation out there than you can count. Even walking through the forest and paying attention to the rustle of the leaves and your footsteps on the pavement and your dog panting next to you, that is meditation. Eating your food with mindfulness, you know, really tasting and experiencing the different textures of the oatmeal and the fruit and the protein powder and the nuts and the like. Really like not watching TV while you're eating, not scrolling on your phone while you're eating, but actually experiencing eating. That is meditation. So it doesn't have to be this far off thing that is so hard to attain. Prayer, you know, prayer is meditation, but finding the one that works for you and there will. The one that finally worked for me was a meditation process that doctor Joe Despenza uses. But I don't do that meditation anymore because now I want something different. But I'll probably go back to his later, you know. So it's not like there's one kind for you. It's there's one kind for you now that will resonate more, and that may change and evolve, and to be afraid of it, that there's there's something that will work for you.

26:04 Quite and you know, it's interesting. I've done Doctor Joe's too, and it's interesting how you do get to a point where right, I want to move in a slightly different direction. And yeah, I love my walking meditations. I do those at least three times a week for over an hour and have found places that I can go with beautiful lakes and the trees and so forth. So and then listening. And what I have found is I've done all sorts of things, so vigil and you know, bineural, all of those things. I have found for me, what seems to resonate most is singing bowls and so I went on YouTube and downloaded you know, some of those. And so I think it's important for people to understand, as you say, prayer also, and I find I combine that. Actually, I think meditation and prayer can be combined. But I think the point is, as you say, the mindset, the fact that you take yourself out of this everyday constant bombardment of thoughts and all the noises and all of that and get to the point where you can, as some people say, be still and just start to listen to that inner voice and realize that you know what there is, that intervoice's available to you if you just take the.

27:26 Time to listen. And yeah, sometimes you're going to listen and do something to go, oh, that was a mistake, but guess what, that's how you begin to learn. And oftentimes what we think are mistakes. I mean, you look at your situation. I look at you know, my situation in history, and can look at things and say. Wow, that was a mistake. Or we can look at things and go, I'm so grateful because here's what I've learned. And because I've learned this, now I can. Make a difference in other people's lives, and I think that's important for people to understand. You know, I was on your website. I found the comment that you made in and I want to go over in a minute. It says you've spent your life molding to others expectations. You've exhausted by roles that never quite feel right, and you know that there's more to you, but you don't know how to reach it. You feel lost, but you haven't given up, and you know I think that's such an important.

28:22 Thing for people to understand. And this is I think where awareness comes in is in this first line, you've spent your life molding to others expectations. Talk about that a little bit, your experience and what you have observed with other people. Because as you're going through this divorce counseling. I don't know, but I would assume that you have to get into that inner self of becoming and realizing that you have become molded to someone else's expectations. Yeah, and actually we all do it all of the time, right, it's you know, I I think sometimes once we start to realize that molding, we experienced shame, you know, like how could I do that? Or you know, why did I do that? But there's a uh survival mechanism that all of this molding originated from, you know, so you know, maybe like severe independence is to you know, keep you from getting hurt by others. You know that the molding came about as an adaptation or as a survival strategy, and we all do it, and so there's no shame in any of that. And but but it is so the step after fighting the mind is awareness, and that

29:54 is awareness of everything. It's awareness of yourself and you're so that that loop and I've heard some of your other podcasters talk about this, and Doctor Joe talks about it. But the thought, feeling, behavior, experience loop that we get stuck in that loop. If you can become aware of it as it's happening, which if you practice quieting the mind you can start to do. Once you break that loop, you can start to be more intentional and conscious about your experience, your your reality. So yeah, so the molding, I mean that that happens to everyone all the time.

30:47 It happens more severely or we get more lost in it when we're being controlled and manipulated and gaslighted and you know, all that stuff. But it's there for everyone. There's nobody that hasn't, you know, maybe a baby right when they pop out, but soon after being on this planet they start to mold as well, you know. And we are the effect of society of you know, parenting, even that intentional good parenting. Whereas I said, you know, for me and I think I was a pretty good parent, my kids will say I am. But at the same time, we still have those discussions about their perception and the things that I unknowingly communicated, the words I use, the attitude I expressed that caused them to become molded or to develop that inner belief system that ultimately starts to show later on in their lives. And I think that that's so important that we recognize that, you know what it isn't as you say, it's not our fault, and this whole concept of original badness and all of that is it just doesn't exist. And it's just like we really are that child of the divine and recognizing that we have become molded, we have become that chameleon, We

32:17 become that fake person, not even aware that that's not ourselves until at some point in time, as you say, we have that sudden awareness that, Wow, what I'm experiencing here, whether it's the job or life or whatever. Isn't who I really am. In any stories that you can share with people that you've worked with, where you've been able to work with them and seen a dramatic change in their lives, yeah. I think as I reflect through several of them, the consistent shift in their life has been around punch atribution.

33:01 Usually my dog is barking? Is that bothering? You okay, okay, let me pick back up. Is usually in the form of contribution, where I think use the words child of the divine. You know, once they get a glimpse of that part of them that is the child of the divine, they they have a message delivered to them in whatever form that tells them what they're supposed to give back. And it usually has something to do with creative expression or healing or uh, you know, contributing to the welfare of somebody else. Like it's it's always around that. And actually, you know, one of you said something about when you were talking talking about mistakes or like, you know, we tend to think, oh, was that a mistake? And it made me think of and and I this isn't what you were necessarily saying in that moment, but something you were saying right before that made me think of this, which which is when we hear a message, if it is critical, doubtful, catastrophic, negative, that is not the child

34:34 of the divine, that is our monkey boin that is our parents or our teachers or whatever. If we're hearing something that is supportive in you know, enlivening, empowering, exciting, uh, joyous, you know, praising that is the child of the divine. Yes, And even in relationships, recognizing that whoever you are having to have that relationship with, if you are getting as you experienced, that control, that unkindness, all those types of things, Recognizing that, you know what, this isn't about me, this is something that they are having that challenge with, And I think that becomes the beginning of the awareness that Okay, you know what, I can step away from this for a minute, even if it's just mentally and you know, step away from this and realize that's not me, and then to start that discovery process of who am I.

35:43 So I want to go back to I love the stories. Any stories. Are just not comfortable telling a story about someone that I. Am an open book and an open book. That you've worked with that literally what they were facing and how you help them and what their outcome was. I do have tate to tell specific stories, which is why I tend to kind of lump the picture altogether, because usually when you get into the deep details, if they're specific enough, I just worry about treading on, you know, privacy. Yeah, if it's about me, I'll share anything, but about other people, I'm just a little bit more more cautious about that.

36:34 Well, as you began to develop that mindset, as you went to I'm sure, as you became certified in different areas obviously, as you went to doctor Joe, which is very enlightening if you went to some of his programs, at what point in time and how on earth did you end up ending that relationship that was so psychologically abusive to you. The visual I have in my head is not exactly what happened. What it felt like, I crawled on for pause, you know, out the door, and pulled myself into my car and drove off. That's what it felt like. But what it really looked like was I went back to the therapist that did trauma therapy with me to save my marriage. She didn't want to go to couples counseling at first. She wound up sort of half ass trying later, but I went to the therapist to save my marriage, and then the process of that woke up to the fact that no, that is not what I needed to do, and I needed to get out. But because I was trapped in a psychological abuse, I didn't realize I could leave.

37:53 So I asked for a divorce and was told that, uh, it wasn't a good time, basically that we had to wait until some random time summer. And I then came back with a place I wanted to move to, and I had made sure that it was close enough we could share custody of the pets, and you know, the cost was reasonable and blah blah blah, and I was told I couldn't. I couldn't move out. The reason that was given was basically financial control, and so I acquiesced to that. So I went out and found an even cheaper place and more less desirable place, but again furnish would take the dogs. Less expensive. Still told Nope, too much, you can't move out. And I was sharing this with a friend, well, you know, talking about how the trapped I felt, and she we're on a walk and she just sort of stopped and looked at me and said, you're a fifty five year old woman. You don't need her permission. And it was like this bucket of cold water just splashed on my face. That had never occurred to me that I could leave, that I didn't need her permission. So I realized I wasn't going to be able to leave if she was home, and you know this is not I like admitting I did this, but

39:24 I did. She went out of town. I found a furnished house, I packed up my car, drove the stuff in the pets there and emailed her. And you left because it was the only way I could get help, you know. And that's a great story. And I think it's important for people to understand that sometimes you have to be dramatic in your life in order to get out of these situations. And the fact that you worked so hard with you know, going to therapist to try to save it, and then it realizing ultimately that you know what is not going to work. So as we as we run out of time here, and we could go on for quite a while. I think I'm loving your discussion here. What would be that final message that you'd like to share with those that are listening today.

40:17 The art of hearing your truth doesn't have to be super time coming. It can be taken in little bites, the little moments of breath of quiet. My book is divided into sections with exercises questions to get at your truth. You can do a question a day, an exercise a week, and whether that's with my tools or some other tools. It doesn't really matter. The point is you don't have to spend five hours a day up on a mountain to get your truth, know your passion and what you're here to bring. To the wonderful.

40:57 Okay, thank you? And so how do people find you? And how will people be able to find your book? The book is on Amazon and again it's called Be the You That's More You than You've Ever been. It's a big book and the website pair of more paradox and it's spelled one way, but I think I've got all the wrong spellings also routed to it, but I'm sure you'll include it in the notes. Yes, yes, all right, Christen, thank you so much. This has been really insightful. And your transparency, I think it's so important and for people to understand that as we learn to become more transparent, not only do we begin to understand who we truly are, but the value that we give to other people by doing that is so important.

41:52 So thank you, Thank you, doctor Doug, thank you you. Ed, and folks, thanks for listening. I hope you've enjoyed this one and look forward to having you join us again soon. So this is doctor Dyke, saying no mistake.