ACE Your Life

0:01 This program is designed to provide general information with regards to the subject matters covered. This information is given with the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services. Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas. At the end of the day, it's not about what you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up, who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.

0:44 Denzel Washington, welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to. Do the same. Michelle, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. It's great to have you. I'm looking forward to this. You come with some incredible credentials, and so you know, it's going to be interesting with all of those credentials to talk to you about a number of these things that I've talked to other people about, maybe not with as high credentials as you. Have, So it's gonna be really fun. I'm gonna have some interesting questions for you, so. I'm super excited. Before we start, can you explain and share with the audience your journey who you are. Don't be afraid to talk about what you've accomplished and why.

1:35 You know, we all have questions of why are you doing what. You're doing now, and that would be one of my questions I'd like you to answer. Yeah, So I'll give you an example of why I'm doing what I'm doing. Okay, yesterday, for example, I had a person who I was saying, she's in her twenties, and I started seeing her when she was maybe eighth grade something like that, and her parents, of course made her come in and it was involuntary, and she came in because she was having some I guess disruptive behavior. Again, academically, she was doing fine, but she was being a little bit let's say, disrespectful and combative at home, so they thought it would be important for her to come in, and they were concerned how that was going to carry over into her friendships, you know, across the board. So, of course, because she was coming in involuntarily, she was not happy to be here, and she really gave me a hard time, but we did form a connection and I did whatever I could with her, but it was you know, more supportive in nature, I would say, and just really make her feel supported and comforted and also that she could like openly express herself. Fast forward, she came and she was really working on anxiety. That was the core of the issue that was coming up for her, which I discovered that a lot of the combative behavior was coming from underlying anxiety, which I shared with them. Anyway, fast forward she ended up after seeing her for a bit of time, and then she circled back to me.

3:04 Now she's in her twenties, and I felt like I really really got a good picture of her, understood her. She circled back and she said to me, you know, gosh, I gave you such a hard time when I was younger, but I'm really ready to work now and I'm coming back because I'm serious about it. Fast forward. This is a kid who literally was so rigid and so tightly wound and so protective and defensive, and you know, all the adaptations you can imagine coming up to the surface. And then yesterday she announced to me that she's considering being a therapist as a career option. Now, if you told me that when she was in eighth grade, I would have fallen off my chair because she was going to be an attorney and she was going to this school and it was going to look this way and that that was it. Anyway, and then she just recently a couple months ago, got into this really healthy first and healthy and you know, intimate relationship and it's going really well. And anyway, the transformation is vast. I cannot even tell you. And she said to me, she expressed to me the read. I said to her, Wow, this is a big change of heart. What's going on? Where did this come from? And she said, I realize how much therapy has helped me over the time we've been together.

4:25 And I really want to do something that's significant and meaningful. And I really feel like I could make an impact like you've made for me. And again, this is a kid who does not like to be vulnerable. She does not express herself emotionally. I could go on and on, and I you know, I really I almost like welled up in tears. I have to tell you, because this is like her authentic self, her like golden shadow coming to the surface. And I said to her, I said, I am seeing like feminine qualities come up like I used to see like this aggression and defensiveness, right, but like we're peeling away this onion in the surface and look what's showing up. Like how beautiful and that you were able to share with me, how much I've meant to you, Like how meaningful that was to me. Anyway, That's why I do what I.

5:19 Do, Okay, And you know what we don't We don't get enough of that feedback. I mean, it's you. Know, I've talked about this a lot, and I remember when I was teaching some classes in church and at that time I was very involved and so forth, and it was so frustrating because it's like, you know, am I making a difference for these people? And just one time someone came in and said, hey, I need to tell you, and it's like, wow, that made all the difference in the world. So please talk about who you are as far as your background, your you. Know, I have a private practice in Harrison, New York. I am the founder of a foundation which is a nonprofit and it's called Through My Eyes th HRU and it offers free clinically guided videotaping for chronically medically ill individuals who want to leave a video legacy for their children and loved ones. Yeah. I've done that for the past ten years. I've done over three hundred videos, and I'm really looking actually at this point, to expand it because I really want it to be more nationally based.

6:23 I'm looking for a partnership. I'm looking for anything. Literally, I have absolutely I'm open to anything because I am so so passionate about the mission and I see how helpful it is for people. So it's my baby that I really want to nurture so badly. I'm an adjunct faculty member at NYU New York University, and I teach a course how to integrate mindfulness practice in Clinical Practice, which I love you to therapists, which is so lovely. And then there's so many things that I do, but I'll just kind of cut to the chase and zoom right to the next thing. I recently published a new book. It's my second book, and it's called Acier Life. Unleash your best self and live the life you want. And it's predicated under acceptance, compassion, and empowerment. That's what A stands for. I am a Psychology Today blogger and I have almost two million readers, which is so exciting. And then I also publish on my YouTube channel a guided meditation every Thursday morning. Okay, a little bit about me.

7:28 That's who you are. So I have a question, and I hope this is not going to be offensive, Okay, because so often, and I've experienced this personally when we talk about talk therapy and I think you understand what I'm saying. Oh yeah, I had so many people say to me, you know what, I spent years and years and years in talk therapy and all we did was talk, yes, And all I did was pay the therapist to listen to me talk, Whereas I've had others tell me every once in a while they'll meet someone who gets to. The root cause. So when you were talking about your client that had anxiety, how did ultimately.

8:12 Yeah, did you get to the root cause of what was causing that anxiety? And how do we fix it? So tell me your thoughts on that, and sar, what's the difference between talk therapy and everything you do? Because I know there's a lot of things you do, and we're going to talk about that some more. Yeah, that's a great question, and I wish more people would ask questions like that, because there's different types of therapies that's better fit for different types of people. You know, I think when you talk traditionally about talk therapy, what I'm hearing you say is more supportive in nature, that's not. And again it takes different kind of shapes and forms, you know. I think for certain people that's very helpful and that's all they want, you know. And I say to them when I see they're just kind of droning on and on and on and telling their story and that they need the support, they need to be heard, that that is primary for them, I'll say to them.

9:11 It seems to me, right like you've kind of listed these, you know, several challenges you want to work on. But I'm also hearing that you really want to tell your story, you really want to be heard. Do you want to focus today? And really just you know that I offer you support? Is that? You know? So I give people a choice because inevitably, if I lead them in a direction, that's my agenda, not theirs, right, So that doesn't work for everybody, It just doesn't. So what the type of work that I do personally, and I have many people who come to me who say they've been in therapy and it hasn't been helpful. So I do want to say that. Yes, So I think what what makes my I'm going to say my experience, my knowledge, you know a little bit different is I have skills in different areas.

10:00 So I do something called E MDR, which is I movement desensitization reprocessing, and that does more work with a subconscious and it's more like in our child's you know, deeper work. I do work around polyvagel theory, which is more somatic. Right, things that happen in our bodies that you know kind of come up as a result of anxiety and other things. Right. So, for example, you know, I do cognitive behavior therapy, which again is a different type of So I do I pull I'm going to say, from a lot of different therapies. And my method that I came up with through my experience and my work with people, called the East Method, is very systematic and it actually works on stuckness.

10:45 The goal of it is to move through any type of barrier stuckness challenge that anyone has. We all have stuckness if you're a human being, Okay, we all have stuckness. It's part of our humanism and right, So it doesn't matter what it is. It could be interpersonal related, it could be a relationship, it could be career oriented, it could be a personal barrier, it could whatever whatever, and it really helps you kind of to moul through that. So whatever comes your way throughout your life developmentally. And I use it with you know, teenagers, I use it with adults. I use it with people with all different ages, and they use the lingo, which is really cool too.

11:27 They'll say, like, I didn't quite lean into my values, you know, this week, and I realize I have to really kind of focus on this, you know, this value that I've been a little bit kind of neglecting. So I think it depends where the person comes from, you know, what their kind of knowledge base is, what their interest is. You know, some people, I'm a very direct person. I don't give advice because if a therapist is giving you advice, then that's not necessarily helpful because I don't have to suffer the consequences of other people's actions. So I can't tell it be telling you what to do. I could say hmm. It seems like there's options you have. I'm seeing this option, this option, this option, Right, what do you think would work best for you? What do you think you know about these options? You know?

12:16 So, so let's get into the E. M. D R. Because you talk about getting back into that real subconscious, and you know, there's there's this whole theory that goes on and on and on and on about and I happened to believe it, by the way, about the subconscious and how that literally is creating our life experiences. And as we talk about subconscious not only our own personal experience growing up as children, but also when we get into the DNA history and all of that type of stuff, where we literally inherit some of these emotions and beliefs from ancestors years ago and behaviors. Yeah, yes, yes, So.

12:58 How do you how do you help people to really number one, identify that you know, what you're experiencing is something that you are creating, and we need to figure out what is it subconsciously that's causing you to create that very issue in your life. Yeah. So I think what you're talking about two things. One is we live in our subconscious. We do you know, we're ninety five percent of literally of our time is spent in our subconscious believe it or not. Okay, So when you drive to the grocery store or you do your morning routine, you're not thinking about what you're doing. You're just doing It's it's literally your roats. Okay. Sometimes you can even think about what are you eat today? Right, like these simple things where you realize you just were not paying attention. I'll be in the shower sometimes and I'll be like, did I wash my face? I can't remember if I washed my face, and I start laughing and I'm like, oh gosh, Like you know, I better watch it again because I don't remember because I'm not paying attention. So we don't We're not in the present moment.

14:04 We're constantly, constantly flooded with thinking about the past and thinking about the future, and the past puts us in a space of regret and guilt. Right. The future puts us into this worried space. And the only thing we actually know is the present moment. Right. I know, right this second, as I'm speaking to you, i am safe. I know that I am grounded. Right. I can't tell you what's going to happen in five minutes from now, I can't. I mean, maybe the fire alarm is going to go off in the building and I don't have to run out. Could happen? I don't know, right, So we really have That's what mindfulness is all about. It's really getting into the present moment and intentionally, nonjungmentally being in that space. And that's what we strive for because then we connect to ourselves, to others.

14:54 Et cetera. So that's one thing. The second thing is you're talking about patterns that are creating over time. Now, the reason why that's the case has to do with our neurobiology. So I think it's important to recognize I see the videos going a little wonky. I think it has to do with our neurobiology. And you know, something to recognize about our neurobiology is we are constantly in the space of emotional avoidance, which is I talk about in my ted X talk circumventing emotional avoidance because our brains are wired to avoid discomfort and danger or perceive danger. So when we go through something in our lives, okay, there's a mapping that happens. There's literally these neural pathways that get formed, and the propensity is to repeat because it's familiar, and familiarity is comfortability. Now, when I say the word comfortable, that could be confusing because you're like, okay, but it's not comfortable because I'm doing this behavior that's actually self taught sabotaging. It's actually ends up being uncomfortable. No, your brain likes to take the path of least resistance. That's what it does. That's how it's wired. It's very reptilian.

16:17 It says, if we're cavemen and cave women, yeah. Well yeah, and we have to be right. I mean, I think that's we have to be right. So when those emotions come up and those failures come up, we have to say, Okay, I'm right, rather than admitting that I'm responsible and in fact I may not be right because something else is controlling my life. That's right. So I'm noticing the video is a little wonky. Do you want me to refresh? Let's keep going, okay, because I could refresh it if you want me to. But okay, yeah, well, if you refresh it, we lose right and. We might not get knocked off. We'd have to kind of reboot and stuff. But totally.

17:00 Okay, yeah, all right, So am d R, what what is that? I mean, I'm familiar with a number of different methodologies to get back to that. I happen to use NLP when I was doing that. But em DR, I've never really heard much about that, and I'd love for you to explain to the audience and what that is. So I cannot endorse it enough. Literally it is. I've seen miracles happen with my am DERR work. Literally, So it's traditionally known to work with post traumatic stress disorder, and it has traditionally been used with war veterans to help them through you know, obviously post traumatic stress. But I use it and it's now a lot more widely used for all different kind of issues. I use it for stuckness, I use it for anxiety, I use it for I mean literally anything. It's you know, people kind of so the nu once behind it, if you want to know a little bit more about it is we don't understand, okay, in terms of our cognition and our biology, why it is that when somebody experiences something, it kind of gets caught or stuck between the amygdala and the prefrontal cortex. Okay, and then what ends up happening is we either repeat patterns or behavior or when something comes up that reminds us that we make an association to that thing, whether it's like from our senses because we smell, touch,

18:30 taste here, et cetera, or because it reminds us you know, in our memories or somatically in our bodies because of body sensations that we have that same reaction. Okay, we don't understand why that happens. So like, for example, the example that I always say is like during nine to eleven, right, people who are in the vicinity of the World Trade Center, whenever they heard a plane go overhead, they would have a startled response. And the question is, how does that make any sense? Why would people have these startled responses? Before this ever happened, they were completely okay, and then the chances of it happening again is one in a million. So why their body and their mindules that intellectually? Like if I would speak to the person, they would say to me, I don't understand why I'm having this reaction, Like I know, I'm okay, I don't get it. We don't understand why that happens. We do understand that our brain is wired to protect us. So it literally clings if you and again i'm kind of you know, you know, you know, trying to express it in a way that you can understand. Of course, So it clings to this memory and it doesn't allow it to fully integrate in a beneficial way. It gets fragmented, so that your brain continues to protect you. So every time the plan goes overhead and you get that startled response, it's the brain saying, don't forget, remember what happened. You could be in trouble, you know, protect yourself. Safety. Safety, safety. That's why it

20:03 does that. And we have to actually appreciate that, because our brain is so incredibly generous and kind and warm and loving that it's trying to protect us from danger. But we get so angry at it and frustrated with it, and then we resist and we come bat and we disregard and we deny and we do all these sorts of mind tricks in order to remove ourselves, you know, from this position. So what EMDR helps with, there's it's called eye movement desensitization reprocessing. We do it through our senses. So for example, actually you could see the bar behind me. There's a bar here that's a light bar which I use, and it has a little light beam that goes back and forth, and it's all different colors because sometimes colors could trigger us also, So I usually use two modems.

20:52 And it could either be visual, which is the light beam going side to side and you would be looking at the light beam. It could be tactile, which are too buzz which vibrate. It could be audio, which is a little kind of buzzing sound that goes from side to side, and they all are coordinated. They go, you know, and they calibrate to the same modem, and then we process whatever happened or whatever comes up while we're doing the uh you know, the processing, you know, the the desensitization through the processing, and that helps literally to un jimmy that information that's fragmented so that it is more integrated and our brain is online and recognizes that we're not in danger, or that we don't need to react that way, or that we're an adult now, we're not a child anymore, or whatever. So I do use it for example, for people experience trauma. I've used it, you know. Unfortunately, for repe survivors I've used it all sorts of issues. Literally, I had a person, I mean, just as an example, who I mean horrible, horrible tragedy. You know, her husband.

22:02 They were in the middle of a store, like the day before Christmas, and the husband had a massive heart attack and died in the middle of the store and left two young, little, tiny children. So Number one, you could imagine she was petrified to go into that store because of the memories, and she was flooded with memories of what happened when that happened. And I worked with her, and you know, after working with her for some time, she remember she texted me one day and she was like, You'll never believe this. I went into the store and I did not have any reaction. I did not have any visceral reaction to being in the store, which, again, if you think about that, is incredible.

22:44 So you're really literally as you're doing that, you're helping them to let go of those situations or really, well, the. Memory, the memory isn't fragmented anymore. It's integrated. That's I mean, if we had to ye say it in terms of what happens in our cognition. So it's integrated. And now by integrating it. Does that let it go to the point that it's no longer affecting their behavior. That's the whole Yeah, that you want them to get to a space really where their brain understands that they're not in danger, right or the brain understands that they're capable because they're an adult to protect themselves, or whatever it is that you're working on. It depends what it is.

23:25 There's so many different things that kind of come up. I mean, I know when I was doing my own training, like literally, I remember there was one incident that happened in my training where I was I was amazed because if I would have been doing traditional therapy, it would have been five years of therapy that happened in literally two sessions. Wow, wow, no job, Yeah, no joke. So, and you mentioned that you do guided meditation also on your YouTube channel. How important is meditation and how much do you use meditation with your patient to really help them to overcome some of these issues?

24:05 So, you know, meditation is a type of mindfulness practice. There's thousands and thousands of different types of mindfulness practices. Yes, well, people kind of get confused of what mindfulness is and I you know, again, I teach a fifteen week course on it, so you can imagine how much information about it. So what it essentially, if I had to kind of numb it down, you know, kind of numb it down, it's really creating space between the thinking and the doing, right, because I said, our mind is constantly gravitating towards you know, the future and the past. So it's really helping us to be in the present moment. So meditative practice is very, very helpful. And again it's not for everybody. But I look, like I say about exercise, you can't just throw the baby out with the bathwater and say, Okay, you know, jogging or running isn't for me, So I'm not going to exercise Like if A doesn't work to b c D, until you go through Z and find something that's compelling and find something that's beneficial in, something that you could connect to and something that you're going to you know, use routinely. Same thing with mindfulness, yeah, or meditative practice.

25:14 You have to really find what works and make it a routine. That is the really important piece of it. But it's really intentionally and non judgmentally being in the present moment. Okay, And so you talked about your ACE method. I'd love for you to get into a little bit more depth on that because that really is your approach for people, right Yeah. Yeah, So it's really an integration of like I said, the work that I do, how I help people really get through their stockness and live a valued life, you know, like I said, it's a life of meaning, a life you know, living living and being your best self because essentially life is short and we really don't have time to waste. You know, we see, we see every moment as you know, time goes by like this, you know.

26:03 So it's predicated, like a senator, acceptance, compassion, empowerment. And what I do in my books and the work that I do is I teach people about their norcognition, you know, about their thinking process because a lot of people don't know how our brains are wired. And it's very essential to know that in order to make change because we have a lot of barriers and a lot of challenges. Constantly they're thrown at us that cause us not to be routined in our behavior. And that's why I essentially I ask people like how many of you have you know, kind of changed your habit or behavior, and everybody's hands go up. How many of you have maintained it over time? Hands go down. So there's so many resources out there that help us right to change habits, but not to sustain habits. That's part of the issue, and that's where my work comes in, Like, I want this to be sustaining.

26:55 I don't want this to be temporary, temporary, not helpful. And when it's tiver it's actually could be even in some ways counterproductive, because then we end up beating ourselves up even more and more right, because a self fulfilling prophecy, it becomes a narrative of the way we see ourselves. This is too hard, I'm such a loser. Why can't I do this? You know, there's something wrong with me? And I could go on and on. So it's predicated acceptance is under you know. So after teaching about again our no recognition, I teach about our values. And you know, you may say, to me values, well, I know what my values are. That's most people say. And I'm going to say, you think you do, but you may know, yeah, that's right. I teach you how to really hone in on what your values are so that you're doing a value, a valuation, an assessment on a daily basis, because that.

27:48 Is how do you do that? I have asked this question before, you know, because we talk about values, and so often our values are based on what we've. Been taught that they need to be. How do you help someone to get to the point where they really understand they're true? Yeah, so that's actually one that's only one type of values. Okay. So there's values that we acquire, which is what you're talking about, there's values that we aspire, and there are values that are circumstantial. So it's part of understanding what types of values come up for you. It's part of understanding how you're defining your values. It's part of understanding what actions you're going to take to lean into your values.

28:31 And I do a whole series of exercises to help with that. I did a workshop, you know, last week, and somebody came on, you know, they were asking questions, and somebody said, oh, I don't understand. You know, my value is this and it hasn't changed. And I said, that's not your value, sorry, and then I started probing and then I said, no, this is your value. She was like, oh my goodness, I never thought about it that way, Thank you so much. Like it's such a different perspective. People don't really realize at the core of what's driving kind of what's driving that passion, whatever that is right, what's meaningful, what's important to you? So and then afterwards, I do you know under acceptance, compassion, empowerment.

29:12 The first part of the chapters talk about the barriers, and then the second part is how we integrate it into our lives, and I use a lot of experiential exercises. I also end each chapter with a guided meditation with a QR code that people can link onto and actually use a guided meditation to really integrate the information, because I'm all about integration. So acceptance is embracing who you truly are. People are fearful of doing that because they're scared they're going to live a life of mediocrity and accepting who they are ultimately is not what they want to be accepting of. So we're talking more about without expectations and conditions and qualifications, and I teach about that, you know, compassion is I'm talking bo both to the self, which we're never taught by the way, never true, and which essentially results in compassion towards the other, So it helps with both and it really transforms the relationship we have with ourselves and the relationship we have with people outside of ourselves externally. And then empowerment is really about the doing, like what do we want to be doing in our lives so that we could walk away and we could essentially say that we're living our best life.

30:35 We're living we're our best self, and we're living the life we want. And in you know, in my subtitle, I use the word unleash, and I use that word purposefully because my belief is that is it is already within us. It just needs to be uncovered. It needs to be unleashed. And part of what keeps it from being unleashed is all of these challenges and barriers and so cultural moraise and you know, our genetics and on and on and on that keeps us in this space and doesn't let us thrive, you know, and doesn't let us really move beyond what, like you said, is in our subconscious. So when we are unleashing it, we're actually able to connect authentically to who we are. Like I shared that first example with that you know client, that I'm working with She's connecting tour and she said that, and she you know what she said to me, which was so amazing. She said to me, it's so funny that you see that because I talked about femininity and all this stuff. She it's so funny that you're saying that, because one thing that I tell this new guy that I'm dating his boyfriend, is that he brings out the dainty side in me. And I was like, how ironic is that? How ironic is that that's that authentic kind of person in you that hasn't been able to really be unleashed because it was fearful of being vulnerable.

32:00 All So, So here's a question that constantly comes into my mind, and I was just thinking about this this morning. In fact, I just wrote a blog about it. Is how how do we equalize those past memories, those past subconscious so they're not really the past subconscious stuff? And how do we move forward? Because I think oftentimes we get so focused on what we're talking about, the subconscious imprints all of that, that that's our main focus and we never really free ourselves to move forward and experience a different life. And how do we do that?

32:41 Yeah, after again, it's you know, part of what I help people with is coming to a space where they're living more present in the present moment, because I think what you're talking about is people living in the past, right or yeah, so we're talking about really being here. You know, if you said to me, and I say this sometimes and people like, well, look at me, like you know, if you said to me, you know, how would you feel if you died tomorrow, I would actually say to you, I would die with a smile on my face. And I mean that from my heart. I wouldn't be happy to die, of course, because I want to be here for my future grandchildren, but I would I would be I would be content because I really feel like on a daily basis, and I evaluate this, I'm not just speaking it. This is actions I take that I could explicitly point out which actions I'm speaking to right, I'm acting on behalf of it that I feel like I am living meaningfully every moment of my life.

33:46 And again not to say that I'm perfect, because I'm human and I falter, and i make mistakes and I'm imperfect like everybody else, but I'm able. Instead of bereating myself and condoning myself. I'm able to recognize my human ass I'm able to exercise self compassion, and I'm able to empower myself to take guided action on behalf of my values and empower myself to live the life that I truly want to even if I had an off moment, that's okay. Well, and so you're talking about the skills the steps, so for instance, and it will use me as an example. Okay, I'm your new client or your new patient. So I keep focusing on all the subconscious I keep thinking about it all of the time, and even as I'm meditating, I'm trying to have those come up so I can figure it out.

34:41 And that has become my focus. But what are the steps and the skills that you want to help me with so that I can start to really live in the present and not let that become my focus, but rather be able to move forward and realize that I can create a different life for myself. Yeah, so I would want to find out where the focus is leading you to, Like, I don't have a problem that you keep focusing on your past. The thoughts, the thoughts and the feelings are not the issue. It's the behavior that could be challenging. I can't control you can't control your thoughts and feelings, Okay, we can only control the actions that we take.

35:25 Okay. When I tell that to people, they're like, huh yeah. Like, if I tell you get that thought out of your mind, good luck, because the fact that I'm saying that to you, your mind is actually going to repeat it, and then you're going to get frustrated with yourself. Why you keep on thinking that thought. That's just the way our mind works. We can't control that. There's utility to that. Our mind is doing that, like I said, to protect you, and if you understood that, you would appreciate it rather than getting frustrated with it. Okay, So I would say, wow, oh, your mind is so protective. It really wants you to remember this and it has some utility for you. Right.

36:07 So let's take a moment when we notice that happening. Okay, right, let's just notice it. Wow, my mind it's pretty feisty right now. It's like going ten miles an hour. It really wants me to focus on that. Interesting, Okay. And when I focus on that, what am I thinking? What am I feeling? What behavior does it lead me to? Right? So it's not the thought or feeling that's the problem. It's the behavior that could be the issue. And is that where mindfulness comes in to where you literally are mindful enough that you recognize that are coming in, but you handle it in a different way.

36:49 Yes, it transforms the way you see your thoughts, it transforms the way you essentially the relationship you have with now, and then it transforms your behavior on behalf of them. That's really what we're going for, right. We don't want to be impulsive, we don't want to be patteritonistic, we don't want to be living like again, leaning outside of our values, because that's going to make us feel defeated. It's going to make us feel disappointed, it's going to make us feel frustrated, and on and on and on for good reason, for good reason. So I'll give you like a little example. But like let's say somebody is trying to cut down on sugar. I don't know making this up right, They're going to watch their diet cut down on sugar, which is you know, tends to be challenging for many people. Right. And my first book actually because you know, I have a subspecialty in health and wellness, that's definitely a big interest of mine as well. So if if somebody says, right, they know that when they have dessert a cake in their house, right, they'll say to themselves, Okay, I'll just have one bite and they end up eating like three pieces. I don't know right now, why do people keep falling into that rots Because when the thought comes in and I'll say to the person, what was happening in your mind between when you thought about it and when you acted and ate the three pieces?

38:20 And they'll say to me, I wasn't thinking. There was no thought that was coming through my mind. I saw the cake, and next thing I know, three pieces are in my mouth. I don't know what happened. I said, really, well, let's slow down a little bit. Let's really slow you down, and then I'd give them a list of thirty rationalizations, right, that come up when we have that thinking in between the thoughts and the actions. And then they start giggling, Oh my gosh, yeah, I thought like, okay, tomorrow'll eat less. I'm like, yeah, she really shouldn't have had this because I really had a nice dinner and I don't really need them on and on. Okay, now, in order to avoid the discomfort of those thoughts. Okay, which is what we do. We deny and we avoid. They'll just eat the cake. And then what happens once they eat the cake?

39:10 Then they feel awful about themselves. I can't be disciplined. What's wrong with me? I'm always self sabotaging myself. I'm never going to be good at this, and on and on again, and then the next time it happens, same thing, right, because they have the belief that they're not good at it and that they're not going to be successful, So they fall right into the same trap. If they slowed down and they paid attention and they became less avoidant of the uncomfortable thoughts and feelings and the somatic feelings in their body, they could, like I said, take a step back and say, oh gosh, there's that thought. Now I have a choice that I could make right at this moment. Now, let me connect to my values right and let that lead me rather than my thoughts and feelings things.

40:01 Oh, I love that. I love that. That great example. So yeah, I guess as we as we get near. The close, Yeah, And I just want to say one more thing. What we practice grows stronger. Okay, I was going to ask you another question too, because you talk about compassion. I hear a lot of people talk about, you know, you need to love yourself before you can love others. You know, we need to have compassion for ourselves. And just briefly, how does someone truly develop compassion for themselves? Because society fights against that completely in my opinion, and. By the way, not for nothing, but we have less compassion towards others too, don't you think?

40:46 Oh? Yeah, absolutely, And what's going on in society? I mean, let's be real. I mean in the US, I mean, gosh, I've never seen like, at least since I've been born, I've never seen such instability, such aggression, such inflexibility such. Yeah, I mean, it's really it's quite scary, I have to say, it's really. It makes me really sad. It makes me really sad that my children are living through this, honestly, you know, and it takes different forms, you know, through the years, but like, I just have never seen it this this, you know, at this level. Let's put it that way. So you know, compassion is a funny word because it feels it almost you know, sounds like you know, everyone needs to be compassionate and love each other, you know, we need to love ourselves. And you know, no, that's not what it is.

41:43 You know. If I say to you you are worthy, you know, that makes people really uncomfortable. It's interesting because I just yesterday wrote a blog on this. Yeah, it's my third one on self compassion. I just published it. It's actually out today, so take a look at it. But it talks about a methodology by which to acquire self compassion. Now, when we speak to children, we don't say to them, how do you feel about what you accomplished? We say how does so and so feel? Or like I'm so proud of you? No, how do you feel? And that's a very very different, different way of acculturating people to evaluating their own behaviors and their own accomplishments. And if you want to integrate the thought and feeling I am worthy, you need to actually believe that because you're taking action on behalf of it. It doesn't happen haphazardly just because, like you know, there's all these articles and there's all these you know, blogs and whatever online about like acquiring self love and happiness. You know, so if you look in the mirror and say I love myself a thousand times. Right, it's going to seep in good luck because I could tell you that if I'm not doing something, you know, directly to enhance my confidence and self love not happening.

43:17 It just isn't. I could tell to myself till I'm blue in the face, and it's not going to happen. So what do I do? Real quick? What do I do? So it's it's my method. It's my method. I mean, it's if you're living according to your values, if you have self acceptance, if you're taking action on behalf of your values, you are going to have self compassion. There's exercises too that you do to enhance self compassion. So like even you know, like the butterfly. This is called the butterfly. But it's a soft touch, you know. So when I do lean into my values, and it could be so a core value of mine is kindness. That is a really core value of mine. Any act that I do that leans into my value of kindness. And I don't care if it's saying hello to somebody in the hallway or it's asking somebody, so, how's your grandmother?

44:07 I know she fell yesterday or whatever it is. I sit, excuse me, and I take the moment and I integrate that, and I said, I leaned into my value of kindness. I am kind. I am a kind human. So compassion ends up being the result of following. That age method. Is not something that we can push. Is the result of becoming who we. Are cultivating yourself. And also, by the way, if I asked you, do you think people are worthy intrinsically? What would you tell me? Absolutely? But guess what? Then I say to the person, well, why don't you think that way about yourself? And they start they start giggling.

44:53 Just like I did. Yeah, It's like, why is it that you think that way of everybody else but you can't think that way about yourself? That's great, all right, So I'm gonna have to cut it because we're out of time. But what would be the message that you'd like to share with the audience. I'm going to say this again, every moment is precious, and I mean that with my heart. I see such tragedy. I mean, just yesterday I got a message that a friend's partner lost their twenty five year old to fennel poisoning. Okay, yeah, this happens. I see these messages all the time. Last week I had a client's friend who died of a massive heart attack at age forty five. Okay, we don't have time. We don't have time to waste. Every moment is precious and we need to live every life meaningfully.

45:46 Yeah, well, thank you. And how did people find you? Again? My website is a great way and it's my name Michelle, which is two l's, and Maidenberg is m Ai d n B e erg. You could again subscribe to my YouTube channel, I could subscribe to my Psychology Today blog, and you could find me and my book on my website. So I love connecting with other people. Wonderful Michelle, thanks so much. I really appreciate you being on the show. And folks, thanks for listening. And for those that are watching, apologize for the video stuff. That's going on. I've been discoing like the whole time. This has been really cool.

46:28 Yeah, absolutely so, folks, thanks for listening. Have a wonderful week. This is doctor Doug saying I'm stay