0:00 Wow. How many of you have listened to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast? I can't tell you that reaction, how much that means to us. Welcome back to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast. I'm Chris. And I'm Brandon. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead. This new camera angle makes my arms look smaller than yours. I'm noticing that and I really appreciate it. I thought you did that on purpose. No, I don't. I didn't. And I am not happy with it. Let's do this. There you go. Yo, how are you? You know... I feel so much pressure in our modern business culture to be always on and always awesome. Yeah.

0:41 You're going right for it. Well, I mean, I do. I feel it. I feel what I was thinking about on the way into work. And I'm like, how much of that is useful and how much of that is destructive? And honestly, sometimes I don't know. Yeah. You know, because I think there is, like we talk about you and I have both worked with people. And I think the reality is I'm that person sometimes or I have been. You have those people on the team that are always kind of negative Nellies. They're always living at the effect of everything around them. They don't use their agency. It's like always something is happening to them. Something is always happening to them and that energy just spills out over the rest of the team, people around them.

1:23 And so, of course, that's not good. And I was thinking about on the way in, I think it might be, I mean, there's a lot of thinkers that talk about this, but the importance of actually moving through your emotions and not... or pushing down. And I think I've done my whole life without actually learning how to do that. Yeah. I feel like what I do most of the time is I push away, push down, ignore, talk myself out of an emotion that I'm in. Suck it up, buttercup. That thing. Yeah. And I used to think that that is maybe more prevalent in the blue collar trades, this machismo. Oh, sure.

2:03 Get your shit together, not to. up by the bootstraps, you know, this kind of thing. But I just think it's, this is the modern business culture. I think the gurus perpetuate it. Yeah. Because they're always, we were just talking about this this morning. Yeah. These guru figures, this cult of personality. Yeah. Where it's like the only time they talk about negative emotions is in the past tense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they're always slaying and they're just always sharing with you how you're going to slay. Negative behavior patterns, always in the past tense. Yeah. And here's the three steps I took to overcome this negative behavior. Yeah, yeah. And this morning, I just feel, I'm like, so yeah, right now, part of me is not great. I'm pissed off about the studio cables that UPS apparently has tried three times to deliver to the wrong address that's actually the correct address.

2:51 Yeah. I'm still a little bit pissed off about our neighbor who subleases our studio from us when we're not using it and couldn't get the freaking cables to work. So he and I are snuggled up on one mic. In a ridiculously high end studio. And I'm pissed off about the fact that I can't, we can't figure out why. And it's not like there's no, you know, it's just the three steps to better cable management. Yeah, and people listening to that maybe relate. Maybe you're like, Nordak, just fucking grow up. It's cables. You'll figure it out. And that's true. Of course, it's not just that. Yeah. It's just like the cloud of life sort of descends on you sometimes.

3:31 And it's hard to see the path ahead or the horizon. Yeah, for sure, dude. I mean, yeah. That was a long answer to that. No, it's awesome. Yeah, that's better than the cursory good, legit, fine, you know, that we tossed around. Awesome. You know, you and I have been talking a lot behind the scenes because, man, I don't even know where to start with this. But there's this level of when you're growing a brand, there's things that you explore, learn tactics and strategies that you're trying to advance. You're trying to skill up in because professionally, you've identified that these are events. means. These are things that you do in order for you to do what you need to, which is grow your business, expand the reach, put the brand in the hand, as you would say.

4:16 And I think that we prescribe to a lot of these things. And so you and I as a team are exploring some of the outer edge of this. We're trying to get better at our social media presence. You and I live radically transparent in a lot of this stuff. And so I think you and I often feel at odds with, okay, there are these tactics, just like in everybody's business. There's these things that you look at and say, you got to do these things because they do work. Don't try to outsmart the system. And at times, though, it can feel at odds with the shit that's really meaningful. And so like getting on and I mean, I don't know if this is going to hurt us or not, but like getting on and doing social media posts where we're practicing hooks and doing social And it's like the three steps to do blah, blah, blah.

4:58 Look, at the end of the day, I just want to have an honest conversation with somebody about their business and share something with them that's meaningful. And there are these practices that we're trying that sometimes just feel like a bunch of bullshit. Like, I'm doing this thing that honestly 14 million other people could say, say the same damn shit better than I can, and I'm really not in love with that whole fucking thing that I just said anyways. Well, man, I think, but then there's this reality, and I'm a part of it, where none of us can freaking pay attention to anything longer than two minutes. Totally. And that's what you're battling, right? It's like, how do I grab someone's attention long enough to earn the next minute and a half where I can get into something of substance that actually has meaning?

5:42 Anyways. I had this experience, this observation, and then eventually I want to get around to the podcast you listen to because I think it's relevant to everything we're... We actually have a point. I just want to be happy, bro. I just want to be happy. I recently, I went through all my subscriptions monthly. Yeah. And I was like, holy shit. Oh man, I need to do this so bad. I signed up for Paramount Plus because of this show that my wife and I wanted to watch. And then I signed up for Fox One because World Cup and that renewed for $16.99 a month or whatever the hell. And then... And then I looked at YouTube and I'm like, gosh, YouTube premium is like $15.99 a month. I added it all up and I'm like, we've never been a cable family. You know, where you're spending like $150 a month.

6:24 And you tell yourself cable's too expensive. Yeah, and then you start piecemealing and that is cool. Now you can just like piecemeal the stuff you want, but then you start piecemealing all of it and you're like, holy shit, I'm spending like $150 a month on content. And so I got rid of YouTube premium because I'm like, I don't give a, I don't even know what the benefits were. Like I probably had... Like you less commercials or something like that. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. But here's the one thing I lost. So I have this, I guess this goes to the attention span. I now do most of my content on YouTube. Most of the podcasts I follow, I follow them on YouTube. Yeah. Because I like the video. Yeah. Like everybody else. I like to be able to see. But the irony is, is that most of the time when I do it, I'll minimize the screen and it goes to the little picture in picture.

7:08 Oh, yeah. Okay. And then I'll check my email while I'm listening to the podcast. And then I'll fart over to Facebook and I'll check Facebook. But then, of course, Facebook does this thing where if you scroll past a video, it pauses the... Yeah. Yeah, and I'm like, rah. And so then I go back to YouTube and I'm going to forget Facebook. But then I get antsy and then I go check my messages, my iMessage. And then I check email. Then I'm like, I wonder what's happened. I wonder if I got any likes on Instagram. Yeah. And so when I canceled premium, oh, and the other thing I realized is I will often listen to YouTube and I'll just shut my screen off like when I'm working out. Can't do it without premium. Without premium, that doesn't work. You have to have the screen act. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

7:48 So mad. But again, it just speaks to just how frenetic, just chaotic our minds are now. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I hate to admit it because I think, and this is the pressure of sort of this business culture we're talking about, is that anybody who's worth anything has all this shit figured out. Yeah, right. They got their shit dialed in. Yeah, yeah. So you don't want to talk about this stuff. And so we're all just sort of, so I think all of us are hungry for, just give me the three things I need to do to be awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Give me the three things I need to do to be more profitable, to get more engagement with my content. Give me the six-way path to having a better marriage. Yeah. Because I don't have the patience to think and absorb and ponder.

8:32 I don't like that part of myself. Yeah. I'm really frustrated with it. Yeah. Well, and you're not alone. I mean, the reality of it is not to jump on like some other conspiracy bandwagon, but there's a reality that the world is getting designed in such a way to nurture and drive that. And there's nothing that's really being done, you know, on a scale worth mentioning that's attempting to bring people back to, no, slow down, hang in the pocket. Actually, I think this is a great transition. Yeah. So you and I, actually what's funny is that this particular episode was actually shared with me by my son, which is just fun to be able to kind of be thinking on the same wavelength to a certain extent.

9:13 So anyways, he shared a Huberman episode with me that had Arthur Brooks on it. And Arthur Brooks, I think you've read his book, right? Or one of the more recent titles? I've seen him in interviews and whatever, yeah. He's kind of becoming the, I don't want to use the term guru. He's a scientist that has begun to specialize very specifically around COVID timeframe is when he got really serious about it. But I think he actually did it first time, the first pass on this. And I think it was through some kind of government agencies that he was a part of leading. Mm-hmm. was on happiness. Like this, what does that actually mean from a scientific perspective? And anyways, he calls it the macronutrients, macronutrients of happiness.

9:58 And man, as I was listening to this this morning, I just found it very, timing-wise, very impactful and very relevant to, kind of this headspace that we're talking about where there's a calling to be this way because that shows people that you're legit, you have it figured out because you have to have it figured out in order for you to be healthy and a contributor and worth following and worth paying attention to versus no, this is an ongoing journey and you're going to experience highs and lows in all the different phases at any given time. And the fact that you're a person a human pursuing health in these areas is why it's worth paying attention to or being in community or hearing.

10:43 It's not that you ever land up the plane, so to speak. Anyways, here's these three macro nutrients of happiness, according to Arthur Brooks, enjoyment. And this is more than simple pleasure. And he makes the distinction that like, I think his phrase he used is, chasing pleasure is a first class ticket towards rehab. So he's not saying the dopamine hit. We're not chasing pleasure. Those fleeting moments that we have when we like the food that we're eating, we're having sex, we're doing drugs, we're pursuing accolades for something, there's this fleeting sense that's a chemical response that your body's having. It's not happiness. Right.

11:23 And so he equates it to enjoyment as being a product of pleasure plus people plus memory. So example might be if I have my entire family over and we cook a really extravagant family meal, think Thanksgiving, there's all these kind of pleasurable foods that people are excited about all year to eat, but it's not the enjoyment coming from that moment where you eat too much and then you are regretting it later. It's the fact that you're surrounded by family and the smells are reminding you of the stories of the crying, the laughing. The enjoyment is coming from these, it's the pleasure plus being surrounded by people of substance and it's creating and or experiencing things that are creating memories.

12:14 Yeah, that's a sense of meaning. Meaning. Like that same spread of food. I just instantly am thinking apple pie that is overwhelmed by whipped cream. Yes. And while there's a moment of mouth pleasure, you take away the people Yeah. Out of that spread of food. That's right. If you were eating that in a closet by yourself. And I think you can immediately understand the distinction between happiness and enjoyment versus just the pleasure. Yeah. Yeah. A much richer, right, experience. And I think the experience piece, that memory is important. So, okay. So the first macro nutrient of happiness is seeking and experiencing enjoyment, not chasing pleasure. Very different. So the basics were, it's a combo of pleasure and connection.

12:57 Right. Yep, yep. So what makes up enjoyment itself is pleasure plus people plus memory. Taking pleasurable experiences and elevating them through the relationships, conscious appreciation and memories. Which is, dude, we probably could just hang out and maybe what we do in the near future is we do this. We hang out on that piece in and of itself. Today's kind of a cursory introduction to this because this is something we're going to talk more about. I think you and I have a mission that we're being called to a bit here. and we can maybe talk about that in a minute. Satisfaction, this is the second macronutrient. The reward that comes, this is really important, dude, satisfaction, the reward that comes from accomplishing something difficult through effort and struggle is, And I relate to this one so well because I am fairly introverted by default.

13:50 And when I grind kind of hard for a while, I'm a sprinter. I can't just do this same level of engagement forever. I have to run these sprints, almost like a business's 90-day cadence, right? Through a quarter, where I can find myself on a Saturday wanting to sit in front of the TV all day. And when I do, I often don't actually look back and enjoy that fact that I did that. I don't get the satisfaction because there are times, days and weeks, where my level of effort to accomplish something difficult didn't meet the standard and therefore, in many ways, my brain understands I didn't earn that sit down. I want to be careful here because for overachievers, this is also the way that you unrealistically whip yourself into constantly moving because you feel guilt when you stop.

14:38 And I can suffer from that. Yeah. So I'm trying to make a distinction here, I think, of what Arthur's talking about is, when you're honest, when we don't work, there's not a ton of satisfaction in the things that you get for free. We're just designed to earn what we're getting. And so again, the reward that comes from accomplishing something difficult through effort and struggle, this is particularly relevant to achievement-oriented people. Satisfaction comes less from possessing the prize than from earning it. And this is why things can lose their value so quickly. The award or the accolade is so come and go that if you don't pay attention to the journey, you will not experience anything that feels like satisfaction.

15:25 Because the car that you worked so hard to go get, once you get it in a week, you're over it. You're already eyeballing the next car. Yeah. You know, a couple thoughts on that. I think one takeaway from this is, goes back to the attention thing. It's, I think it's becoming increasingly hard to do eight hours of focused work in today's culture. Like our minds are so frenetic. I think part of what makes it hard for us to take satisfaction in a job well done or something that we completed, that we struggled against, Like the example you gave, or some weekends, you get to the weekend, and you feel like resting. You feel like chilling out, and you feel guilty about it because you didn't feel that sense of achievement.

16:08 Like, I didn't accomplish anything this week that I set out to accomplish. I didn't achieve everything that I was hoping for. I think... part of what that speaks to is we struggle in the eight hours to find focus and clarity and give our full attention to the things in front of us. And so we end up carrying that work through our evening, through our nights and mornings. And it's like, it's really harmful. You know, of course, there's a whole culture within Western business. I think we're starting to come back out of it of just the grind, the grind of the entrepreneur. I was just watching Andy Fursella Andy Frisella, he came with this post and it totally negged me out.

16:49 And at first I started to be self-critical. I'm like, oh, well, you just don't have this thing. But he was basically going off on the life of an entrepreneur. And it's like a lot of people romanticize. You think you're just going to grind for a few years and then get the Lamborghini and all this kind of stuff. These young entrepreneurs just think they can turn it overnight. And they realize it's a 20-year grind. You're going to suffer a lot. And if you're not suffering and agonizing about your business, you're not fit for this thing. It's kind of the message that he gave. And I just thought, wow, sucks for you, bro. Yeah. I don't want to be that. I don't want 20 years of that. Yeah. That makes me not an entrepreneur. Yeah. Yeah. part of me was just like, fuck you, dude.

17:30 Yeah. Like, I don't... Of course, not in real life, because he's big. I just don't... I don't believe that. Yeah. And I think you and I have encountered enough examples. Is there some truth in that? Of course there is. Is there a certain kind of suffering and anxiety and stress that you're going to experience as an entrepreneur that you probably won't generally? Yeah. As a W-2 employee? Oh, yeah, for sure. For sure, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like when you've never had to make payroll and like there has to be a certain amount of money in the bank account, right? It's a different level. It's a different feeling that you carry. But I just, so my point in that is, I've lately, the satisfaction piece is, I'm really trying to orient myself around how do I just maximize the eight to five time?

18:12 The seven to four, the seven to five, you know, just like, how do I maximize that normal work time in such a way that when I'm done, I feel a sense of satisfaction How do I set objectives for my day that I can live up to? And how do I cultivate an attention and a focus to kind of just chip away at those important tasks, those important achievements? And this is a little bit tangential and we can move on, but... Then I saw a post from Gary Vee this morning. So like a couple nights ago. Boy, he's done a 180. He has. Yeah. And his post this morning that I saw said, you're not lazy. You just don't love what you're doing. Yeah. That may go where we end up going.

18:54 And I thought a lot about that. And I think this is something that a lot of owners get really stuck in. Yeah. Because again, there's this business culture of, you know, just put your big boy pants on. Yeah. Alex Hormozy and Layla Hormozy right now, that's a big part of their message is just like winners basically find a reason to keep doing the stuff that they hate to get the result they're looking for. I'm oversimplifying it. And while there is some truth to that, there's always struggle that we have to push through. But I have found, I've had seasons in my life, seasons in our business here, where the struggle was more of a, almost more of a physical one.

19:35 The struggle was, I feel like going home, I feel hungry, but I want to get this thing just right. Or I want to ship this thing. I want to get this video done, but I want it fucking rad, and so I'm going to do takes until I get the video I want before I go home. Yeah. Like to me, that's that positive. That will create satisfaction. That's that positive creative energy. Yeah. When I'm sitting, and I think a lot of owners, I think hopefully will relate to this, when I'm sitting at my desk and I'm struggling to engage in the work, I know I have to, but there's a particular kind of work that it's just like, no part of my being is motivated to tackle this work. That's a different thing. Yeah. And I think what Gary Vee was saying is, successful people, and I think him even looking back at his own career, and maybe why he has been so successful, is he had just had a natural gift for identifying the work that he was both good at and took interest in.

20:28 Yep, yep. And he built his businesses, his teams around him to do all the other shit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. as often as possible. And I think what's really hard for entrepreneurs, and I feel this, and there's been times where it's been even more like this for you and I, where it's like, well, yeah, at a certain size of business, you can't. You can't. Yeah. You can't hire somebody to go do all the other shit. But I think it still begs the question, it speaks to our friend Paul Spees, who says, hey, Find the one, two, three things in your business that you can do awesome that kind of make everything else irrelevant. You can screw up a lot of other parts of your business, but get these things right. And I think that's probably the antidote. Some combination of that is the discipline that we have to pursue if happiness is a priority.

21:13 Yeah. Well, and I think what you're tapping into, and this is kind of goes back to the start of the conversation, like the three steps to blah, blah, blah is I think everybody knows subconsciously it's not that simple. Yeah. It's just not that simple. So even something as clear as saying, hey, look, find your three levers, be unapologetically focused on them and delegate everything else. Okay. In theory, that's remarkable. But I guarantee you when we get Paul on the show and we break that experience down over the trajectory of these businesses he's built, he's going to also identify there was times where he could live that fully out, maybe more so ever as right now being a $40 million entity versus, well, what happened when you were seven?

21:55 Yeah. Like, and so I think that's part of the lie is that which the three steps and it's everything's great. It's like, well, yes, and. Yeah. right? There's this dance that you're going to do in the journey. And I think often we look at it and we say, well, it doesn't feel that simple for me. So I must be a broken entrepreneur or not capable or not as good or whatever. It's like, no, no, no, slow down. We're oversimplifying the system. There's a reality. There's a lot of gray in this journey. And at times you're going to be succeeding at levels and others you're not. And at some point, some things are feasible and some things aren't as feasible and that's okay. Yeah. I like where this is going. So again, macronutrients of happiness, enjoyment is the first one.

22:36 And that was the pleasure plus people plus memory. So it's seeking those things that are pleasurable, but doing it in the correct context of relationship and building an experience memory. satisfaction, it's the reward that comes from accomplishing something through difficult effort. I think like what you were talking about there is, there is a way to be clear on what the outcome is that you're seeking and that that outcome is valuable enough to drive the hard work. I think at times in our business, if I'm just being raw, I've had a lack of clarity at times. What is the real mission? Not profit, not being good at business, not helping other business leaders be good at doing business.

23:17 What's the mission underneath us? all of that. And is that clear enough that it makes the hard work worthwhile? And at moments, I've teetered there. I think you and I have been open about that. And it's part of what may be driving some of the next phases of Floodbite is getting radically clear on for us. Like instead of being dedicated to creating the solution that creates money, what if we just created the solution based on a mission we're passionate about and live fearlessly that if there's enough folks that align behind that, the money will be there. Yeah. But that's a side note. I think, well, and I think that actually folds into what we're talking about because what you and I have witnessed over the last five, six years, in particular, because we've had so much exposure and visibility into so many businesses and business people's lives, owners' lives, is that there is absolutely not a direct line between financial success and happiness.

24:10 No. Not at all. No. Not at all. No. And yet, social media does a great job of telling that story. Yeah. That there is. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. You're going to get some pleasure out of it. No question. Might make solving problems a little easier at home. No question. Yeah, and it's funny. I was listening to a rich guy talk about this very thing. Like, money doesn't buy happiness. He's like, well, it does buy some happiness. Yeah. But I think it translates better into it buys some pleasure. I think it also does decrease certain kinds of stress. Sure. If you got a million dollars in the bank and you got a $3,500 mortgage, you're no longer worried about your mortgage and your month-to-month bills. Yeah. You got a million dollars in cash. Clearly, there's some context there. But I think that's part of what you and I have just seen in spades.

24:54 Yeah. And so then it begs the question, is our only goal as a consultant to make people more money. We've done that. Yeah. You and I've done that. Yeah. And I think what we've discovered is it's often unsatisfying. Literally on the way in with Jana. Yeah. It's a conversation on the way in. Often unsatisfying. Yeah. And I think what's so, what's even more unsatisfying is that when we get a higher level of achievement for our client, when we come alongside them, we do our part, it's even less satisfying in the sense of that achievement, that accomplishment, that higher degree of financial success that we get. doesn't change their life either. And in fact, dude, here's what makes that feel really unrewarding at times, is how quickly in a consulting relationship where you can have multiple quarters in a row, where there's clear, measurable winning that's taking place based on that partnership, but it is affecting the P&L.

25:53 It's growth in revenue, it's growth in profits, it's whatever, yeah. And you can be 12 months in and immediately that owner can be asking themselves the question, what have you done for me lately? Why is this spend still materially valuable to me? And I think that, look, that is not a hit on anybody we've ever worked with or with an owner asking themselves legitimate return on investment questions. But it just goes to show that at times when you build something that is so commoditized or has the ability to become commoditized, you realize that it's an exchange of goods for value. It's a transaction.

26:34 And that owner's satisfaction with that change to their business is fleeting just like every other monetary pleasure. And so it's like, golly, man, do we in these relationships create some freedoms and create systems where we do can get owners home more often? Like, yes, yes, and yes. But and. There is this overarching vibe in what we do that we're helping people create more material goods, and those goods, the satisfaction from them are so fleeting that it causes them to ask the question, what have you done for me lately? Because it only lasts that long. it's so ephemeral, these feelings of success. Yeah. And hitting these new watermarks.

27:15 Yeah, and I don't hold that against them. No, no, no. Just to be really clear. No. You know what I mean? I think we're just speaking broadly about this relationship Yes. of a professional services company like Floodlight. Yes. Doing consulting, coaching, whatever. Yeah, teaching, training, whatever, right? Whatever people sort of how they describe consultants, and just this dynamic. And when I think about the most satisfying client engagements we've had, either ones I've been privy to that one of our other consultants was in or that you and I directly consulted in the early years. Yeah, yeah. Like, I think of our boy T, you know? Yeah, yeah. And the types of conversations when we see him at conferences, to hear about the state of he and his wife's relationship now Yeah, yeah.

28:01 To hear about his headspace and the way he's thinking about the business now and his role in the business and how he's able to show up when he comes home from the business. That's it. Yeah. It is so much more satisfying to me. Yeah. Am I also happy that they're having their best year ever? A hundred percent. It's like that to me, that's a great. Of course, yeah, yeah. It's icing on top of the cake. It's like, okay, when you have a healthy marriage and you're able to show up in a healthy way to your children when you come home from work and then to also have a healthy business that's, okay, well, is there anything more to the American dream than that?

28:41 But I think, unfortunately, what we all tend to orient more around is healthy, growing, profitable business, and that somehow that's going to produce other good things in your life. And yet what we end up seeing oftentimes is people get the freedom, They get to where they install the general manager, they have the system and process, the standards, the expectation, all the things that we teach and coach and help people put in place. They have all of that. They don't know what to do with themselves because they've developed a pattern of not enjoying being at home because of a fractured marriage, distance, a lack of intimacy because they've never fed it, a lack of real connection with their children beyond just traveling constantly to sports activities.

29:23 Yeah. They don't know what to do or who they are, to be honest. So if you think about it, if you've spent, so going back to some of the guru speak of grind harder, you're going to suffer for 20 years, it's 20-hour days or nothing. Well, just think about how dead end that is, really. Because if you were to assume that that is true in order to build a bona fide viable business versus the... Look, not everyone's designed to go create an Elon Musk size company. Like, does Elon need to work 22 hours a day to accomplish what he's done? Absolutely. Would I want his life? Fuck no.

30:03 Yeah. Okay? So can you build a viable family business, the ones that make up the backbone of the United States' economy, and be healthy in doing so and not work 22 hours a day? You sure as shit can't. And you probably should. Because if the only thing you're doing is giving 22 hours to building the business, understand you will suffer in spades across the board elsewhere. You're going to, right? Anyways, so I think this is what you and I are feeling more of a calling to is, yes, there is a level of if you are going to be a paid-for service provider, You have to create a value that's a return on your client's investment, period. Yeah. It's no different than a service provider in the trades has to professionally deliver a quality of product on time, on budget.

30:51 That's not special. That's the baseline. Right. But I think what we're identifying is that you and I are feeling a stronger calling to what else though? Like if we're going to at minimum meet that mark, that's good. But what will be special? What's more missional? What could we potentially be differentiated by? And I think what you and I are admitting more and more to is that you and I are feeling a calling to be much more aggressively participating in. But what else could we build a community on that has value beyond the walls of your business? And you and I are brainstorming that actively right now. We haven't landed the plane, but I think what we have landed the plane on is that you and I are clear there is a calling to do so.

31:35 Yeah. And that's not a level of disrespect to anybody in the trades or blue-collar environment that's continuing to create a high level of leadership and guidance about how to build the business. Again, we want to be able to play at an appropriate level there, but and. Yeah, it really is an and. It's an and. It's an and that I think every single one of us feels in our bones and our guts. I think as AI continues to take over, right? really every facet of our life outside of the physical. We haven't seen that yet. We all know this is coming. It's coming, man. It's coming. It's starting with robo-taxis, and it's going to end with bipedal robots in our homes. And so I think with that, though, there's this craving for connection and meaning.

32:20 Meaningful relationships, feeling known and seen by others that are important to us, having deep friendships, having deep friendships, There's so much fakery and bullshit that we're all swimming in online. Oh, yeah. And it's exponentially growing. I mean, we're reaching a point where, I mean, I think you and I are betting on this, is that at some point in the next handful of years or less, the majority of the population is going to wake up and go, I don't have friends. I haven't been in a legitimate person-to-person engagement in a long time. Everything's automated. I'm barely using my brain anymore to have conscious thought because I can just ask something to do the thing for me.

33:04 And we're going to slip into this zombie state that we already wrestle with where we're starving for human engagement And real raw conversation that everything's not a fucking four-step program and it's not as simple as just being more disciplined. And we're going to not know what to do. And I think that part of what you and I are leaning into is we have an opportunity to continue to develop and create that space and provide a conduit to build community around. And again, we don't know what that's going to look like yet, but stay tuned on that because we do. It's coming. relationship is the superpower. Big time. And I think it's one of those things that will never be, it is irreplaceable. It's irreplaceable.

33:44 I think that this, I mean, and again, let's hit this last one because I think it literally is completely in alignment with what we're talking about right now. I think this is what Arthur Brooks is promoting is that there's these scientific facts that about the way that the human gene is developed and designed and built, whatever your religious preference is. Science says we need certain building blocks, and no matter how much automation, AI, and chasing of frivolous fleeting moments of awesome, it doesn't matter. We can't outsmart the building blocks. And so this last one, I'm just going to keep repeating this so they stick, Macro nutrients of happiness.

34:25 First one was enjoyment. The second one was satisfaction. The third one is meaning. Having a clear sense of why your life matters. He breaks it down into three components. Coherence. Why do things happen the way they do? Purpose. Why am I doing what I'm doing? And significance. Why does my life matter? And if it does, to whom? Okay, so I'm going to go through these one more time. And let's just, again, I'm not trying to browbeat business owners, because we are them. But I just think what we're saying is that we can't outsmart the system. Science laid the groundwork for what humans need in order for them to experience the kind of life all of us are starving to experience.

35:11 And making more money and working longer hours isn't the ticket. I mean, we can talk about it in 14 different ways. The science just says your system will not respond to those two variables the way you anticipate. Enjoyment. Pleasure plus people plus memory. Relationship. Community. Satisfaction. accomplishing something difficult through effort and struggle. Build something of substance, meaning having a clear sense of why your life matters. And this goes back to the satisfaction. Can you build a big, massively valuable company that you sell and get a giant check stroked in your name? Yes, but if what you're doing is missing meaning, You're going to get to the end of that journey and lose your identity in that sale and you won't know what to do next.

35:58 You're going to be the richest, most miserable person on the planet because you just sold what your identity is connected to. So who are you now? Isn't that so interesting? I have faces that are popping into my head right now because we know people that are in that process. Might not be a $100 million check. Yeah. But it's a big check. Yeah. And I hear that. I hear them approaching that precipice in my conversations. Yeah. Because it's inherent. It's like, well, what are you going to do once this is what you spent your whole life thinking was the pinnacle. Yeah. Yeah. is to be the $100 million guy or gal. Yeah, now what? And as they approach it, and of course, a lot of times as people approach it, right, they get a smaller number first.

36:38 Yeah. And then they got three more years of work, you know, earn outs. Yeah. And then they got another chance at the Apple. And then it's like, well, now I've got even more money. What am I going to, and I feel like most fall into the only answer. Go build more businesses. Go build more. Yeah. Go do it again. Yeah, because it's its own version of the wheel, of the hamster wheel. Oh my gosh. It just, the environment looks different. It looks way better on Instagram. Yeah. All right, as we come to a close here, let's just kind of maybe wrap up. So I think the encouragement here is- Give us three points, dude. Yeah, the three points to enjoyment. No, I think that where we're trying to kind of just land the plane is, this is a personal challenge for you and I right now.

37:20 Yeah. And we're sharing it out loud because I don't think we're alone. I think a lot of our listeners are doing some kind of mental gymnastics around this idea. And I think what you and I are just trying to become more convicted in and allowing it to shape what you and I are doing is understanding, like, I can't outsmart the playbook. Like, the reality is, is that, and I'm in complete alignment with what Arthur is promoting here, enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning have to be that life equation. I don't have all the answers on how we do it. Hmm. But if we understand that that is truth, then we have to slow down and take an honest look at what you and I are doing personally in our business and in our lives and saying, well, if we recognize this and we can't unsee what we've seen, what are we going to moderate, change, or identify in terms of priorities in our life to get closer and closer to a space where these three things are being addressed and focused on and aligned simultaneously.

38:13 And we don't have all the answers, but we're feeling an overwhelming calling as a service provider and as an influencer to our community that we believe that there's a role that you and I can play professionally in creating more of this. And so we're going to work right now and saying, we've recognized this, that this is important, and we recognize it in our soul that we do align with this, like that we feel this as truth. And we're going to look at our own business. We're going to look at our own community offering and say, is there a difference that we could be making here? Can we help more people understand that this is true and give them a space to work through this? Yeah, to live this out. To live it out.

38:54 I think it's just a different, like you say, it's about priorities. And I think it's a different playbook of priorities. Yeah. I really have a conviction welling up inside me, as it sounds like you do too, that in many ways I wish I could buy back the 20 years of my last 20 years of work. Yeah. With this understanding. Yeah. I'd have built all of my previous businesses differently. Yeah. And it isn't, my mindset would have been different. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's just, it's a matter of priorities. And it's never too late. It's never too late. Yeah. That's, I think that's the space is, understand, we looked in the rear view mirror. Yeah. Definitely are aware. Yeah. And you and I have the second half. That's right. So let's go into the paint in the second half. Here we go. All right. Thanks for hanging out, everybody. We'll see you.

39:36 All right, everybody. Heath, thanks for joining us for another episode of Head, Heart, and Boots. And if you're enjoying the show, but you love this episode, please hit follow, formerly known as subscribe, write us a review, or share this episode with a friend. Share it on LinkedIn, share it via text, whatever. It all helps. Thanks for listening.