Black Identity, Code Switching & The Pressure Black Men Face | Grown Man Game Podcast Ep. 13

speaker-0: ⁓ Welcome back to the Grown Man Game podcast. I am one half of your host Rod and this is my co-host Big Mike in the building. off of some fried chicken and watermelon. ⁓ Unfortunately, he did not have pumpkin pie. But we're going to get him right. We'll get him some pumpkin pie and maybe some alamo. Matter fact, while we're doing alamo, we'll throw a little American apple pie up in there.

speaker-1: Big Mike, what's up y'all? Delicious combo. Mmm, okay. I felt like you would set me up.

speaker-0: or something like that. No, what's up y'all? We're back again. Excited to be back. Excited to share the couch from Omanz. And ⁓ talk about grown man game, man. Talk about what's going on with us, what's going on in fatherhood and what's going on in culture.

speaker-1: Yes, sir. Big groove.

speaker-0: ⁓ man, can't stand, look, so let me say this. Let me preface it by saying, get your money, black man. Right, like if you found a niche for yourself where you can go out and get paid, people are paying you to do the thing that you are skilled enough to do. I don't want to say blessed, because I don't know that's a blessing.

speaker-1: All right, let's go.

speaker-0: but you are skilled enough to do. got the charisma, you got the character, you figured it out, right? You found your niche, you found your hole and you exploited it. But man, if it's at any way possible, you could stop trying to set us back so far. it just, there's gotta be a way, right? There's gotta be a way that we can do that same big groove, like, know, thing without being so. It's just every time I see it, bro. He can be happy. He is happy. that come on, man, just just through the taste test. Like a part of it is like a part of it is like I'm conflicted because I want him to get paid and I want him to get paid what it's worth. But at the expense of us, I don't like it. Right. And I also feel like people are exploiting him and exploiting us like they're paying him for sure. For sure. Right. But like

speaker-1: Can't be happy man

speaker-0: to do the kind of stuff that he's doing. I don't see no other creators doing that. Oh, I do actually. Other black creators. Like I haven't seen a white creator eating food and dancing and shucking and jiving. I haven't seen.

speaker-1: They don't got that flavor man, sorry

speaker-0: Come on, man, I ain't seen nobody. Nobody's got that flavored in because I've only seen black creators be exploited in that way. And maybe it's just because I'm black sensitive, right? Like I'm sensitive to that stuff because of, you know, life and culture and America in general, right? But man, just, groove, get your money, but goddamn, man.

speaker-1: We've had this conversation, right? Last night, me and Tiff kind of had the conversation, not about Big Roo, but about the white gays. And that has always been my thing. I kind of feel like anything that seems somewhat like caricatures that black people do, it is definitely frowned upon by. You know, a good amount of black people, not all black people, but a good amount of black people. I feel like this is my theory that we've been taught that we are so just... without culture, without ⁓ anything that has been added to history. We've been taught so much here in America that when we do something like that, it does something to us on the inside. Like, why are you doing that? Why are you doing that? Because I see like Asian dudes, they're not dancing, that they'd be like very, and they're big, they're big. You know, they got. The Fade, you know what saying? They got the same swagger. They got the same, you know what saying? Not to knock them, because I kind of like their stuff, but they'll be eating like, ⁓ my God, dog, this is fire. Taking, you know, big bites of like crazy food. Now they're not dancing in all the theatrics, but. I feel like that touches black people in a way in the same way that a Tyler Perry movie touches some black people in a way like, Tyler gotta be doing, man, dang. And I'm like, you know what? They think Michelle Obama is a man. They call Michelle Obama a man. This sister educated in the White House, poised, classical, the highest levels. she's big Mike to them. You know what saying? Like Obama, highest of the highest of caliber and he's a gorilla to them. So when I see Big Groove doing what he's doing, I do have that same like, at the same time, I'm like, you know what?

speaker-0: Yeah, right. Yeah, I've heard

speaker-1: Eat your chicken and dance, man. Go ahead. Because that's no matter what, if you were eating it with a fork, they'd be like, look at this nigga using a fork and spoon. You know niggas don't like forks and spoons. Like, it don't matter. They're going to be like, and it's not him that set us back. Right. It's their poison. It ain't our poison. It's their poison. Because on the other side,

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: Snoop. Wu-Tang, whoever can talk about selling dope all day. And it's not like, ⁓ come on, man. We don't do, unless you're, know, the Reverend Calvin Butts or C. Dolores Tucker or somebody, you know, back in the day. But, you know, we've just been like, ⁓ yeah, that's cool. ⁓ yeah, you sell dope, that's cool. ⁓ you a pimp, I'm pimping, pimping. That's like a celebration. Like you a pimp. I got hoes, Snoop went to the whatever awards with two women on leashes and the. Man, you see, ⁓ It was never like this, brother, setting us back. I'd much rather have a chicken dancing dude than the gangsta selling dope. I don't know. All right. But it's all, get money. They both getting money, helping their situations out, money, I feel you, I feel you, but go ahead, break it down.

speaker-0: Well, so I think there's been people that are counter to all of it, right? Counter to anything that is ⁓ conduct detrimental to the culture, right? Like, obviously you mentioned like Dolores Tucker and people like that have been against ⁓ gangsta, people have been against gangsta rap, right? People have been against the portrayals of black people in movies and commercials, just in general, right? Yeah. And there's this, because of the... almost political ⁓ propaganda against Black people ⁓ for years, there has always been a pushback on anything that makes us look outside of civilized. ⁓ And I think there is some responsibility that we all have to uphold that, to live our lives in a certain way, unfortunately. I think I sent you something ⁓ a couple of weeks ago or last week. or it's like a poll and 70 % of black people feel like they're responsible for the culture. ⁓ And that's real. And it's generated because, or they feel responsible to help out other people, other black people because of the culture, that part too. And it's real because of that, right? Because of the history that we have here in America. And so it's like, whether you chicken dancing or pimping or selling drugs, like all of that is like conduct detrimental. You should be fined, right?

speaker-1: Yeah

speaker-0: If you are cool with dancing for the money, then you should be okay with me saying I don't like you dancing for the money. Like that's the same side. Like if you're gonna take the paycheck, you gotta take the negative that comes with it, unfortunately. ⁓ Now, this kind of brings me to something we say in our house, right? Like with the girls, it's like, know, don't worry about what other people think about you, right? You can just do what you do. whatever they think doesn't matter. Their opinion of you doesn't matter. And I strongly believe that. And in the same sense of kind of what you're saying, right? Like my mom used to say, they stoned Jesus. What you think they gonna do? They crucified Jesus, what you think they gonna do to you? ⁓ And it's the same, right? So don't worry about it because if they can crucify Jesus or if they can find Michelle Obama and call her a man, they can do that to anybody. But. Maybe it's not about them, right? Maybe it's about us, right? Not about what the white gay sees, but like, damn, dog, that ain't even cool for us. Like, you just look like a fool a little bit. Like, pimping ain't cool. It's not cool. Like, it's a crime. You're taking advantage of a young woman or a woman in general. Like, it's not cool. You're selling drugs, you're killing people in the community. It's not cool. Like, you gangbang, it's not cool. Like, none of it's cool, right? Squirter. We may glorify it and we may like dance to it and rap it and all that. That doesn't mean that it's okay. Right. And I get it as a rapper or a singer or whatever you're storytelling, right? You're telling the story of your community. And most of them dudes ain't living that life no more anyway, right? Wants to get the full, fully embraced by the culture or fully embraced by the community. They start making money. They're not doing that no more. Right. And it's a reason why everybody's trying to get out.

speaker-1: Wicked shoot.

speaker-0: Right. Trying to get out of the hood. Nobody's trying to stay in the hood. It's because that's not where you want to be. So even though we're rapping about it, we're making movies about it, we don't really want to be there. So to see somebody actively trying to do it is like, ⁓ come on, man. Like, yeah, we had to shuck and jive and do these different things to get roles before. you know, Tyler had to dress up as Madea and do all the different things in order to sell tickets to get to the place where he's at right now. But I'm like, damn, man, you... 50 years old, you still gotta be Madea?

speaker-1: Hey man, you know what saying?

speaker-0: Yeah, but let that die. Let it go. You don't have to do it no more. You've done it and you've done great and you're amazing and you built a platform and you created opportunity and you set yourself up and the community up for so many great things.

speaker-1: It's a billion. Wow. And he pays his actors more than they get paid by anybody else.

speaker-0: And I appreciate all of it. And in that, you don't have to do Madea no more. You just don't. Everybody will be okay. She was a grandmother 20 years ago. Grandma 20 years ago is gone now. Do the Madea funeral and let's move on. Like we don't have to. Because man, we put ourselves in a place where we don't have to do that no more. At least I think we don't have to do that anymore.

speaker-1: Why? Why we gotta move on from Adid? Why is it? Why does it look down upon that he did that? Like it's Mrs. Doubtfire and Robin Williams or something. just like, I can't believe

speaker-0: That's always the thing, right? It's like, we'll take it and we'll compare it to a white person. Again, it's not about them, it's about us, but let's do that. True. Robin Williams was Miss Doubtfire. How many Mrs. Doubtfires were there? Okay, how many Madea went to jail? Madea went to the hood? Madea shot up Halloween? Madea? How many Madea, not even including the movies, but like there were several plays before the movies. Yeah, I like the plays better than I like the movies.

speaker-1: One. They were good.

speaker-0: I feel like the movies were played up even more to kind of to a point where I didn't like them. I liked the plays and like when I seen them, I think the first one I seen was in like Detroit in 2004, 2005 or something like that. And I was like, oh, this is kind of funny. Not hilarious, but this is good. I could get down with this. This is okay. And then it was like, we doing this again and again and again.

speaker-1: Listen, man, how many albums Too Short got?

speaker-0: Too many.

speaker-1: The Freaky Tales.

speaker-0: Even that one, there's only a couple of songs worth listening to. Too short ain't got no classics.

speaker-1: Favorite word is what?

speaker-0: Bitch, but he ain't got no classics though.

speaker-1: But ain't no what? That's correct.

speaker-0: 2stro got a classic album, a whole album. Yeah, see? See how you pause right here. He got some classic songs, but a classic album? Not even the first one. Exactly. 1000%.

speaker-1: Hey, this is the Bay Area dude saying it. Y'all get him. He ain't from Oakland though,

speaker-0: I was born in Oakland, but you can come, you can compile some two short songs and make it a great, a great, a great album, but not any one album is a classic.

speaker-1: to Santa Barbara. But what I'm saying is, no one's like, too short. Stop making your albums like this. You rich now, stop doing that. Nah, we like, yeah, that's my favorite word. ⁓

speaker-0: 2005

speaker-1: And you're going to see people in the club.

speaker-0: Yeah, Elpham nostalgia, but Too Short Album Now ain't about that. It might be. I don't know. I don't know what Too Short talking about right now.

speaker-1: I just heard him on Jill Scott's new album. He was still on some... but that's too short. Let that man get his...

speaker-0: That's the persona though, right? that's not, that's not. So it's big groove of persona.

speaker-1: The first idea. for sure. All these people are, they're just personas. so. Groovin,

speaker-0: So in that same token now, I'm gonna it. Big Groove is mine, that gets me, right? Charleston White is one that gets you. But again, it's a persona. It's just a character that he created because nobody was responding when he was asking them to help with the community.

speaker-1: The same with your, you know, your Kappa buddy. No. The one, he's dead. ⁓

speaker-0: Damn. ⁓ yeah, yeah,

speaker-1: ⁓ boy, that's just a persona.

speaker-0: Nah, I don't know if his was a persona necessarily, because it was Kevin Samuels. Because it was more, his mission was never to even interact with women, but women don't.

speaker-1: See?

speaker-0: Women women found their way into his his fear. Or more interactive. Yeah.

speaker-1: And then he started doing because that's what blew him up. So that's why I'm saying to me, that's why that's his persona. He did what started to work. This is what works. This is what I'm going to do. This is Madea. This is working. ⁓ my gosh. Boom. I'm a deal.

speaker-0: Yeah, but we beyond Madea working at this point.

speaker-1: We be on Kevin Samuel, but people still go back to him like he was the guy, you know, Kevin Samuel. But let's keep it pushing, because now it's making me think about something that I do want to get into. The comments section.

speaker-0: Let's do it. Rest in peace, Kevin Siles. Shout out to KSI. This is my capaversary we crossed 23 years ago.

speaker-1: Happy Kappa Versus. Am I allowed to say that? Yeah. Okay. All right. I forgot. They got rules. I don't want to, you know.

speaker-0: Yeah, speaking of, I seen the video the other day and this is, ⁓ I guess, just because of social media, right? Like the whole shimmying and strolling and the D9 has become more popular. And so you have like just random people doing it. And it was ⁓ this kid, he was strolling for his prom. So he's obviously in high school. And the comment section was like, ⁓ man, you got to delete this video before you make it to college, bro. They're going to get you. It was just constant comments like, what is he doing? People was going in on it. I'm like, let the young man live. Let him have fun. Let him enjoy himself. And obviously, Kappa League didn't find him. Nobody got to him. So it is what it is. He get on campus and y'all ain't going to do nothing. Y'all ain't talking about shit. Not going to do nothing. But I appreciate how big it's becoming. And if we have time, I want to get into the HBCU experience as well.

speaker-1: Okay, yeah, For sure, for sure. Some people think all that shimmy and stuff that you guys do is anti-black. Also.

speaker-0: Yeah, I've heard. I've heard. You know, we're we're not Greek or whatever

speaker-1: Nah, but the comment section, man, so we'll put up certain clips from the podcast and it is quite hilarious to me. I wonder. I wonder, pardon me, pardon me, y'all. I wonder what is going on with the male species nowadays. And you know, there's been times on the podcast where I just, I'm ready to call people out and ⁓ cuss them out, know, light work. And I'm really motivated now, because when I see the comments, I am kind of like, ⁓ It's very interesting. Very interesting. I want to just jump into just one, because this is not going to be a thing that we're going to be doing. So you don't need to, you know, make crazy comments and now you're going to be on the show. Right. Man where is it should have been more prepared right?

speaker-0: You gotta have it queued up. I don't even know what you talking about. You didn't even tell me.

speaker-1: It was the one that we were talking about where basically last episode where the girls and the boys, the girls were in lockstep following their teacher, but the boys were like all over the place. So ⁓ there were comments on YouTube. This was a lot of YouTube comments.

speaker-0: Yeah, we, yeah, people like to comment on YouTube. It's interesting.

speaker-1: Yeah, like crazy comments, but I was like, man, that's crazy. yeah, let me go my history, that'll work. Okay, there we go.

speaker-0: see what I have to deal with. ⁓

speaker-1: So, you know, it's that one, you know, we're talking about, Rob was saying the German teacher had the boys marching to a song and none of the boys had it together. It was wild. It was disgusting. It was hilarious, right? Lighthearted. Yeah. And then, you you pan to the girls, the girls are all in lockstep, ready to go, bop, bop, bop. And then, you know, we went over, we talked about ⁓ grown adult men and grown adult women. having survived on this island and how the women were just trash. They basically didn't drink water for days, dying of starvation pretty much. And the men were just having a great time, eating good, drinking good, having a good time, right? So, you we kind of juxtapose those two things together. When we posted this one about the boys not being in sync, there were people coming with dissertations. All right? Here is one from somebody. Girls are communal by nature. Right? It starts off like, oh, okay. To be a woman in yesteryears meant you had to please a collective society because being shunned or isolated from social groups used to get you ate by bears or starved or freeze, et cetera. Men are much more independent. I gotta go back because, you know, can't...

speaker-0: Prehistoricus?

speaker-1: Laugh at boys not being

speaker-0: Alright, sorry. Go ahead.

speaker-1: Men are much more independent, which is what you need for the future leaders and defenders of your social group. Men march to their own beat because if challenged, they are ready. So the boys were out of sync because they're so independent and they march to their own beat. Brother, let me tell you, okay? You have to be willing and able to fight for their opinions or POV. The nature of children is the purest to human psychology we can get and it makes intrinsic sense to why the boys would be disjointed in a group versus the girls. Next comment, boys need a man to lead them to get their respect. So the teacher was a woman. that's why they're so off beat because the teacher was a woman and not a man. It's just natural. 100,000 years of male leadership cannot change overnight. You should know better than this, right? Jesus Christ. Boys need the right leadership. Also, girls are more adept at putting on a performance. So, you know, girls like to put on a performance. That's why they, you know what saying? So, what's wrong with y'all, man? What's wrong with y'all? It was just some kids marching. It was funny. You know? ⁓ What's wrong with y'all?

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: This is why you don't have a girlfriend. Okay? This is why you were in the house, upset and angry and saying that all women are crazy because you are a cornball. And I'm a very positive guy, but it's just getting on my nerves because I just be seeing the different comments. And that's why nine out of 10 times I leave it up to ride or I try to take your example and not say anything crazy in the comments when people talking crazy like this, because this is a positive space. This is for us as men. got to connect, rise, grow. Y'all, some of y'all. I'm not talking about the men. I'm talking about the high school boys that comment. those kind of things. Like, what's wrong with y'all, man? What's wrong with y'all? What's wrong with him?

speaker-0: What's wrong with them? Well, obviously they don't have male leadership. obviously, And there may be something to that, right? I'm not at any point agreeing with that, but 70 plus percent of teachers are women, right? I work in the school. Most of the employees at the school are women, and through admin. So if you don't like it, be a teacher. If you feel like only... men can lead boys and we're 50 50 population boys and girls and in some cases more boys and girls, we should probably have more teachers. But we don't because you as men and fathers want your sons to play basketball or play football or play baseball. And you want them to drive race cars and be firefighters and police officers, but nobody's telling them to be a teacher. Matter of fact, I think if you look back. teaching has always been a career that women have been pushed towards. It's been a nurturing position. So men shy away from it. They don't tell their sons to be teachers. If that's the case, then it's probably your fault. If there need to be led, then there's no men around to lead them. No, then fix it. Become a teacher. ⁓ The other part of it is, ⁓ like I said, we're talking about prehistoric times. They'll freeze to death. They'll be eaten by bears. Like where? Where does that happen in that? Like, I don't think that's happened anywhere. don't know. I mean, there's bears here. was a bear running through the neighborhood a couple of years ago. But I don't think nobody was outside about to be eaten. That just doesn't make sense.

speaker-1: Because there's men in this community.

speaker-0: Like I get, I get the sentiment. I get that they are just kind of maybe genetically predisposed to work as a group, but that don't make sense because if you look at sports men work in groups all the time, just fine. Right. Like you go to the playground, you watch boys play together just fine. Like in groups, it happens all the time. So these are just excuses, man. ⁓ the reality is, is that we allow for, or maybe not allow for, maybe we create in young women. through society and through socialization that they do need to stick together and do things together. And we tell our sons to go climb the tree or go ⁓ fist fight or go, you know, we force independence on our boys, right? And we force group economics on our girls, a group, well, maybe not economics, but grouping on our girls, right? We want them to do play dates and we want to have them go be with another girl and spend time with other girls. And then our boys, we're like, go ride a bike and find some trouble to get into. Right. So, I mean, it could have been just as easy as watching the video and be like, damn, little boys. Wow. The girls, they got it all together. But I guess if we want to take a deeper ⁓ philosophical dive into it and turn this into a, ⁓ you know, turn this into a college course, we can really get into it. But I don't even think it's that serious. It's really not. And ultimately, like to place blame anywhere is foolish.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: Right? Like I think this teacher was just making an observation on the students in her class and a valid one. Right. Because I've I've volunteered at my daughter's school and little boys. I will say this. I've been training youth athletes for almost 20 years, 18, 18 years now. And it is easier to train female athletes than it is male athletes.

speaker-1: Sure, not to cut you off, but to cut you off. The commenters said that is because women are predisposed, right? To following versus the boys are independent in mind because they had to fight bears and gorillas. So, but go ahead, go ahead and continue man. go ahead with your foolishness, it's fine.

speaker-0: Girls are, ⁓ they work harder, they complain less, they want to be challenged. ⁓ Just in general, not all of them, obviously. And then not saying this obviously about all boys, but I will say that, ⁓ sure, they don't do some of the same physical feats, right? Like they're not jumping as high or lifting as much weight, but they work harder. ⁓ They listen better. You give them a direction once, maybe twice and they do it. Boys, you give them a direction and if there's more than five seconds between the direction and the activity, you got to give them the direction again. I don't know what that is, right? don't, don't, I don't, this isn't the battle of the sexes. I'm just telling you what I've experienced, especially the younger they are, right? But I think as they get older, it's still the same gap, right? Cause I have an 18 year old girl that I'll train and the 18 year old boy and 18 year old girl is way more locked in because her as an athlete, her window of opportunity is closing and she realizes it. So she locks in and she works harder. Little boys, people have been telling them since they was 10 that they were going to play in Major League Baseball. So they feel like they got another 20 years to goof off. And that might be it. Right. Like we talked about the maturity aspect. Maybe they are more mature. Maybe that wasn't just something they were saying when we was in middle school. Right. Maybe it is. And maybe maybe that's a problem. Maybe we need to be a little bit more mature. Maybe we do need to put some more guidance around our sons. And maybe you're right. Maybe maybe you need more male leadership, in which case we need to have more men stepping in ⁓ in real life and not in the comments section.

speaker-1: that part. You know, one thing that I do think about, and I kind of want to move on, but I checked the way that I'm about to move into this because I'm fly, like I do this for real. right. Joining together, like some girls, women have to group together for protection. And if you think about it, like I went to a high school, Alton Loma, shout out to A-High, we created a BSU there for that specific reason, not like, we want to be separate, but it's like, okay, we need to be able to come together as protection, as love, as understanding. And I think that is where we got HBCUs from, where we've got... black Greeks from there is a connection and coming to an understanding. Like if you go to a PWI, you know, college and versus HBCU, you can kind of just walk around. Everybody is, is no one's just looking at you like, what are you doing here? How'd you get here? Is this a DEI? Is this a, I forgot the old school one that we used to have. we go. Firm and of action. Is this, come you No, I worked hard and I got here. What are you talking about? But when you're in the HBCU, surrounded by a majority of black people, that's one less thing that you got to worry about. you know what saying? Break down the HBCU and this cap of graduation, anniversary, 1911. You know what I'm saying?

speaker-0: So just for anybody that doesn't know, HBCU is historically black college and university and PWI is predominantly white institution. So I went to a PWI. At my school, there was probably 120 to 150 black students. Some of those were first generation or from Africa. So that probably puts us in more like 60, right? Most of those are on sports teams. basketball, football, ⁓ track, that kind of stuff, right? ⁓

speaker-1: How many people were at the school? Just so we can get like a... ⁓

speaker-0: That's a good question. can look right. I know it's a small school. ⁓ Let me just get it.

speaker-1: animation. I said like a thousand, two thousand. Okay, well.

speaker-0: Nah, it was more than that. I think, I feel like it was. All right, so around 6,000 students, typically. As many as 7,500 if you count grad students and all that.

speaker-1: So you're like 0.00 something percent.

speaker-0: So when school is in session, there's 10,000 people in the town. School is out, know, that 6,000 is gone, it's 4,000, right? And there's 150 black people of various nationalities. I'll say that to some Americans, some from other places, right? I don't know that I felt, and I'm just going off what you said. I don't know that I felt like people looked at me like I wasn't there. I think people just assumed I played sports. They didn't really have to look at me like, why are you there? Although I, you know, I'm semi brilliant. I was smart. ⁓ But I say ⁓ my first time I was not first time I've been called a nigger before, but ⁓ first time I felt like racially charged to being called a nigger was my first week at school. ⁓ Football, you got to get there early. So we're there before school is in session. So this is like town people.

speaker-1: when it comes to the moon.

speaker-0: And we're walking through downtown late at night. We shouldn't have been. Everything is closed. It's like midnight. So we should, we was walking from the dorms trying to go to, it was a little restaurant. It was open 24 hours. So it was like the only thing open to eat. So we walking through downtown and some dudes in the truck roll by. Yeah, roll by and, you know, I'm from a neighborhood where like cars come up and they start slowing down. You on high alert.

speaker-1: That's always a trick.

speaker-0: So you can hear the truck coming, but then it's gradually getting quieter as it's getting closer and that's not normal. And some dudes just, the car slows down, kind of rolls next to us and like, niggas. And they just speed off. I'm like, ⁓ what? What do you get out of that? of all, second of all, like, damn, that's real. Like I hadn't experienced it like that because I had grown up in my neighborhood when I was a kid, pretty much all black Hispanic. And then we had some diversity when I got to high school, I went to a mostly white high school in the suburbs, but it still wasn't like that. Like nobody was calling people niggas like that. But now I get to college and that happens. I'm like, damn. But I was talking to my daughters and this is why the HBCU thing came up is, I forgot what we talking about, but I was like, man, I never really got to experience the HBCU experience. Oh, we were at Claremont. because my daughter had attracted me to Claremont colleges. And we're just talking about the different schools and whatever. you know, just people walking around and everybody was white. And I was like, man, I wonder if this like this experience for them is the same as the experience for us at HBCU. Like you're walking around and literally everybody you see is white professors, people driving the cars through the neighborhood. Like I got that vibe. We went to Atlanta because my sister graduated from Clark and literally everybody was black. like the teachers, the staff, the students, the people working, like everybody. And that's one of the things I like about Atlanta because no matter where you go, like you see people in suits, doctors, lawyers, like everybody is black and it's like that representation, right? Like you see it so you believe it's possible kind of thing. ⁓ But I'm always curious as like what that experience is really like, you know, on a day to day basis.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: How different is it then then going to a PWI as a maybe as a white I would be curious to see what it's like as a white student at a PWI versus a black student at HBCU like what is the experience like For each person and then maybe have them flip we should we should do it We should go like we should do like Drew ski and go white thing and go to white school and play it out now but I'm curious is what it's like because I think I think Some of what you said is true. Like there's some schools, I'm sure, where like you're the only black face that people will see all day and they'll be like, you know what? What are you doing here, sir? Man, like you stick out like a sore thumb. ⁓ And I felt that part. I felt like that for sure at school was like, I'd be in classes and I was only black kid. We'd go to different events and different things and be the only black person there. Things in town, we'd go to restaurants, go to the grocery store.

speaker-1: What here?

speaker-0: It's just you.

speaker-1: just you. I pretty much grew up a lot in that same situation. At a young age, I moved from a city that was just like my block was like the United Nations, and it was just black, white, Hispanic, Korean, ⁓ Iranian. The reason why I say Iran, because it's just in my head, was drilled in my head. No Michael, it is Iran, not Iran. Okay, my bad. But Iran, shout out to the Baklava, all right? Miss Fahadzidda. ⁓ But just moving from that to... 92.7 % white, you know what saying? And walking up the streets, I used to walk with rocks. I've told you this story, but I used to walk with rocks in my hands because people would drive by, grown adults, you know what saying? 30, 40, 50, 20s. Nigga, nigga. So you get tired of it. So I'm like, all right, I got something for you. I got your nigga right here. And you just, mm, whoo, whoo, whoo, throw them rocks and then just dip out. But I probably would have went to jail if they caught me too. But you know what saying? That experience taught me a lot about how people are when they feel comfortable in their surroundings, feeling like, this is how it should be. Why are you encroaching on my space? And, also it was the beauty in, I tried to make sure I did this with my daughter, but just the beauty of, because my beginning was so black and also so surrounded by different ethnicities at a young age, I was able to understand very early the differences and the beauty of those differences, right? So it was just in me. also, you know, my pops was also very, very much the dad from Boys in the Hood. So it was always just drilled in my head like boom, boom, boom. Boom, ⁓ you see this boy? Yeah, they trying to buy people out here because they want to do gentrification. I learned that at a young age, you know what saying? Just the same way, know, Trey was doing, but. Having that built me up so that I could deal with moving to this ultra white space, right? So being that the girls are surrounded by you and Ari and you know what saying? Mr. Macon and Auntie Nini or what did they call her? don't know. Auntie Nana, Auntie Grandma. We're gonna look into that and figure out why, but for another episode. Nah, but the blackness and just being surrounded by seeing black people in positions of power, seeing black people in positions of prosperity, it's just normal for them. They don't know anything else but to, ⁓ yeah, we're gonna take a trip to Jamaica. All right, let's go. It's not, know. My daughter said something to me and I was like, girl, she was like, dad, why can't that? We're basically rich. I said, what? I'd say everything we got, and mommy have to work extremely hard to get. This is not given. And no, I didn't want to tell her that we're not rich, because I don't want her mind state to be like, but also I wanted to tell her like, no, this ain't, no. Sacrifice, bruh, like no, uh-uh. But anyways, but just having that surrounding, you know, and the girls being around each other, you we talked about how our daughters, ⁓

speaker-0: Right.

speaker-1: Matty and Reese will be like, I don't know what they fenced to do, but this, you know what saying? And it's like, okay, I'm gonna let you ride with that. Cause you, you know, you're yourself and sometimes I'm gonna correct you. I'm trying my best not to put on you the survival instincts that I think I needed, but we did kind of need, but do you still need it? You know I'm saying? To cold switch. But I don't know. I don't know. It's a different generation.

speaker-0: Right. Right.

speaker-1: Generation Alpha, but yeah, man, you know what saying? So having that BSU in this school, because like you said, when you go to a bigger school, there seems to be more of a concentration of black people. It was to the point to where the blacks and the Hispanics, we would go to the METCHA meetings so often every now and then. They would come to the BSU meetings every now and then. And METCHA is, I don't know the exact acronym, but it's basically like, Hispanic version of the BSU, right? So in LA, you had blacks and Mexicans going at it because there's so many of them and the dynamic of the city was changing. But where we were, we were like lockstep with each other because we had to, you know what saying? But yeah, man, it's just an interesting thing to walk through this world.

speaker-0: With that, somewhere along the way, I kind of came back to Big Groove. ⁓ And the reason is, I can't think of the number, but there's some research out there just regarding the amount of Americans in the country that don't have day-to-day interaction with Black people, right? That don't experience Black people other than on TV, and maybe not even on TV. And then, know, the way movies are, you might get... depending on the movie, might not even get a black person in at all. Like we might be a cast, like a not cast, sorry, ⁓ an extra. like for, for him to be the experience that they get is like, damn man, that's, that's probably my, that's the white gaze part of it, right? Like for the regular population.

speaker-1: I get it.

speaker-0: Who cares? They get inundated with so many different versions of black people, which is amazing. They get to see the hip hop black, they get to see the intellectual black, they get to see all these different people. But on the off chance, because it happens to me randomly, I'll see some random person on my feed from like, damn, they still doing that? People still act like that in the world?

speaker-1: Yeah, for sure.

speaker-0: And so for them, if that's the only one because he's commanding a good amount of the algorithm, right? Like for they like burgers, he might he might be the only black person they see eating burgers. Hey, look at this nigger. I told you, I told you. exactly what Pappy said they was like. Now we now we even solidified it. And that's not his responsibility. And that's not, you know, not to put that on him. Like I said, I want I want my man to succeed and I want him to have all that he is destined to have. I just feel like we all have a responsibility to uphold a certain standard. And obviously we not going to do that all the time. We going to fail. I'm going fail at it. Right. I'm going to do something or act a certain way or say something that's going to have my ancestors rolling over in the grave. Come on, man. Like I can't believe he did that. Right. And I understand that. And so I understand that. But he don't like watermelon.

speaker-1: You What has happened?

speaker-0: Why? Yeah, but, but yeah, so I'm just saying like, just because I was thinking about at the like the PWIs, like there's a lot of people that go to those schools that have never experienced anybody outside of their race. ⁓ And that goes for all races, right? Because you have kids that come over from from overseas, right? Like we had a bunch of kids that came over from overseas. This is their first shot at America. This is America for them. And, ⁓ you know, so you can't be acting a fool.

speaker-1: Yeah, I feel you.

speaker-0: My mama used to tell us, and I said this in a previous episode, was like, when you go out the house, you represent this family. And so when you go out to social media, you represent this family. I'm sorry to put that on you, my dog, but you represent this family. And if you out there acting a fool, it reflects poorly on all of us, especially because our number is smaller.

speaker-1: which sucks, man, because that's a lot of pressure. And we all feel it, even though I'm talking about big groove. Like I feel it too. Literally, I was going somewhere yesterday, maybe to the store, and I had a chicken wing, and I'm at the stoplight, and I'm like looking around like, man, I can't eat this wing in front of these folks. They're going to be like, I told you, they driving around to eat chicken. then, on the other side of me, I was like, I don't care what you think.

speaker-0: And genetically predisposed.

speaker-1: and I kind of forced myself to eat that chicken wing right there at delight, lick my fingers. Because that's what you think anyway, if you're to look at me eating a piece of chicken and you're like, but it's still, like you said, it's ingrained in us. Like we need to prove who we are, but nah, I'm tired of that. I don't need to prove to you who I am. I want to cuss right now, but let me keep it cool. But.

speaker-0: Yeah. I think it's going away too. think, I think, ⁓ cause I don't know how old he is, but I think younger generations are starting to lose that, ⁓ that feeling of responsibility for the whole culture. Right. ⁓ I think there's a lot of blurred lines. think there's, there's so many, so many facets and so many layers to, to black culture now at this point. ⁓ and it's.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: and the lines are blurry, right? there's a, I noticed this yesterday at the track meet. So track, me and my wife talk about this all the time. We were just in this area, like, damn, where all the black people at? We go out and it'd be like us and like one other black family and it's mixed families, right? Damn, black people really just don't be out. We went to track meet, niggas was everywhere. I'm like, oh, this why ain't nobody out on the weekends. All niggas is at track meet. Got it.

speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, come on, he was- They had to track me, man. it. That's the bug game in POP 1.

speaker-0: Yeah, so, okay, everybody's at sports. Got it. So, you know, my oldest is on the track team. ⁓ She's a suburban kid. This is Rancho, right? The track team is in Rancho. But these girls, and listen, she's Black. They're Black. It's different. Right? It's baby hair. It's, ⁓ you know, just the way they talk. There's the swagger. Like, I know these girls. Like, I grew up with these kind of girls. ⁓ And she's... different and she's trying to like, they don't treat her different, they don't act like she, she, you black, we black, we all black together. But you can, you can see in the way that they move and the way they act and talk is like, yeah, it's different. And so I think as we continue to progress, there's going to be some of that that's lost, right? Like I think, feel like those girls may feel more responsibility to the culture. Whereas my daughter feels like I'm me, I'm Reagan, I'm only responsible for Reagan. Like I don't have to worry about anybody else kind of thing. or as much, right? And I wonder, is that a good thing or is that a bad thing, right? Because technically it's progress, right? I think our ancestors would be like, oh man, look, she gets to move in the world and she don't have to worry about this or that. And the white folks is treating her nice and everybody is being respectful. But at the same time, like, damn, that baby ain't, you know, at the same time, she ain't as cultured in black culture as everyone else.

speaker-1: I think, you know what, cause I experienced it myself also. So coming from my own experience and that might've been, you I was younger than her. Cause I think I was in the sixth grade. was like, you know, moving to Alton Loma, Rancho, being around white people, a lot of white people. So my transition was fifth grade. I came here in fifth grade. So by the time I hit sixth grade, I like, okay, I got white friends. I got maybe two black friends, because it wasn't a lot. Yeah, you know? And you start to talk like the people you're around, right? So my play cousin comes to spend the night everywhere. Gosh, dude. Now, I there, come on, now it's the season. But I said, I was like, oh man, that's awesome. And he looked at me, he said, shout out to.

speaker-0: It just wasn't, yeah. No option. You were like... Talking like Mickey Mouse.

speaker-1: play cuz Ray Ray, what up Ray Ray? He was like, yeah, you already know. You already know. He looks at me and he's like, awesome Mikey, awesome? And I was like, huh? No, no, no, I'm in funky fresh out the box, man. He's like, man, it's cool, man. It's cool, man. Like that's cool, man. I never heard you speak like that, but it's cool, man. It's cool. as kids, you know what saying? Just being accepting, you know, like you were saying, like they weren't tripping on Reagan, but it was like, okay, yeah, I can be me. And if this is awesome to me right now, because this is how some of my friends speak around me, then it's awesome. It's also dope, you know what saying? But yeah, man, nah, it should be fine. I think it is, I think we are moving in the right direction to the point to where...

speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

speaker-1: I was telling Tiff, like black people were doing so good, now we're able to have mental health issues and you know what saying? Like, yeah, he fine, go on. Like, no, he's depressed. He needs to be in special needs. needs, you know, nowadays, so now we're getting therapy. Now we're, because we're doing better and better. So as we continue to do better,

speaker-0: Right. With that boy.

speaker-1: certain things that were never an issue can now be an issue.

speaker-0: Right.

speaker-1: you know.

speaker-0: Fun fact, to this day, when I say awesome or if I type awesome to something, I typically use it in email replies to people. like, that was really bite of me. It still doesn't feel natural. Awesome? Yeah, that's what my auntie calls me, Rodney. It's so weird to write it, even to this day, at 43 years old. I'll write it. I don't say it very often.

speaker-1: Awesome! It was awesome! Raji

speaker-0: who I say it to or where I would say it is like, I don't think I would say awesome to you.

speaker-1: You say awesome to me, man. you trying to say? I've said you, I mean, you've, it's been like, you were like, man, that's awesome. We might've said it on the podcast.

speaker-0: He's lying That's awesome, Michael. If I just said it in regards to my kids or to like something going on with a family, yeah. Something more lighthearted for sure. like in just general conversation, like me and you just talking or we just hanging out somewhere and I said, awesome. It would hurt coming out. It would feel uncomfortable to say. But yeah, it is interesting how that works. And I of all my friends and cousins or whatever, I'm probably the...

speaker-1: Yeah, it was definitely something like.

speaker-0: I don't say that, I'm probably the whitest. You know what I mean? I'm core cousin group, right? I listen to rock. I like white TV shows. I watch Friends. My cousins are like, friends?

speaker-1: friends.

speaker-0: Dawson's Creek, you watched Dawson's Creek, dog? I didn't really watch it. I only got introduced to it because of Ari. But just stuff like that, right? Like there's certain things that, like I like country music to an extent, not all of it, but some of it. like, you know, yeah, yeah. ⁓ I like a good classical ⁓ arrangement, you know? Just different things that like, they just don't fit in my upbringing in my neighborhood.

speaker-1: It's too late.

speaker-0: but it still feels weird to like say or do certain things. Just like I'm not supposed to be doing.

speaker-1: which sucks, because you can't be Big Groove, you can't be Carlton. So you gotta find balance somewhere in the middle. That's a lot of pressure on us, man. Because I'm with you, same way. My cousins, we went to Mississippi and they said the same thing. They were like, man, why y'all talk white? We from Cali, man. don't be, hey, man, you get some of washing powder, wash that up, man. What you doing? Like, nah, like, hey, dog, go to the grocery store and get some laundry detergent.

speaker-0: I'm Yeah.

speaker-1: Like they'd be like, shit is. What you talking about? Just rinse it off. Rinse it off, man. gotta rinse it. Rinse it, dog. We had a two story house. like, yo. I was like, man, this is two story, this is Cali, man.

speaker-0: Why? downstairs. Nah, y'all got an upstairs downstairs. They don't even say a two story house. Two story houses. got an upstairs downstairs.

speaker-1: It's like, dang, man, we gotta navigate all of this, too black, too white. Dang, man. Come on, man. So just exist. There are black people that love rock. Hi, I'm Mike. He don't really like rock. He likes soft.

speaker-0: Nah, I like rock. Mike don't like Coldplay, which is crazy. ⁓ international phenomenon. Mm hmm. 30, 30 years of hits. I mean, you can deny it if you want to. Yeah. Some people like LeBron, some people like Jordan.

speaker-1: The Beats, y'all saw what he did the other night. I'm not even a heavy, y'all know, I don't even like the sports ball. But what he did the other night was amazing.

speaker-0: He sports ball. Yeah, yeah, kinda. He missed some key free throws down the stretch. Made it on himself than he had to be. But it is what it is. We probably need to wrap up.

speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, damn, we didn't got. But yeah, so this was the episode about stuff, culture, pressure, and moving forward. You know what saying? So I guess, what would be the girl man game for this episode?

speaker-0: stuff. I think you just said it. I think the grown man game for this episode is, I think it's a couple of things. One, and we talked to this before, you have to figure out who you are, right? Or who it is you want to be, either way. Who you are and who you want to be. And then just embrace that and lean into it. Just be you, right? Cause they ain't going to like you anyway, right? Like they, they crucified Jesus. So, you know, imagine what they'll do to you. So just, just be you embrace all the things that you enjoy. with a level of respect and reverence for the people who came before you, ⁓ but not so much where you can't be who you want to be. That's it.

speaker-1: ⁓ That part brother, that part. Yo, you can catch us y'all. You can catch us on Instagram, on the IGs. Go ahead and hit us up, Grow Man Game podcast. Just kidding, Grow Man Game pod. You know what saying? You can catch us there. can catch us on YouTube, Grow Man Game podcast. Just go ahead and search that. We'll pop up. You can go ahead and leave comments about how.

speaker-0: Grumman Gang Pop.

speaker-1: There's no such thing as racism and we're just making all this stuff up and it's a shallow drivel or whatever. You know what I'm saying? Fine, it's cool. It's cool. Do your thing. I will. And I'll be like, I'm tired of you suckers talking about you don't see race. You see me. Nah, you can go ahead and hit us up and you know what saying? us. Shoot us your questions. Shoot us ideas, know, different podcasts that you would like for us to.

speaker-0: Michael get offended.

speaker-1: Podcasts, I should say, podcasts, know, podcasts. Topics. Topics. Don't finish my sentences, man.

speaker-0: you had your hand out, thought you ⁓

speaker-1: And as a man, I lead myself. You heard the dude in the comments. We're gonna work together. Yeah, different podcast topics that you wanna hear. can hit us up at grownmangamepodcasts.gmail.com. And yeah, man, we'll be here. We'll be back.

speaker-0: That's another thing. Men don't work together. What about all the businesses and companies and like hunting party? Like even if you go there, right? Hunting parties. Like we got together and hunt. You ain't building all this. Shut up, man. Sorry, y'all. All right.

speaker-1: Cool. Y'all done got him mad. He don't get mad. You know what I'm Just stupid. Alright, y'all. We're gonna catch you next Wednesday.