92. Creating a Thriving Business Community: Key Insights and Strategies

00:00:00
Happy holidays. This is Deirdre Tshien from Capsho, and I'm joined by my co-founder, Bona Rai. Hello. Happy holidays. This is going to be a little bit of a different episode, as you can probably tell already, because it's, you know, with the holidays here, it's a bit of a time of reflection, and we've been doing a lot of reflecting over the last few months, really, the whole quarter, and we've made a lot of changes.

00:00:27
Some of you who've been on the journey with us probably know a lot of what's been happening, but we thought we'd use this moment to think about something or talk about something that we've really been trying to think deeply about and figure out ourselves. We haven't yet figured it out, so this is almost a cathartic episode. Yes. We're welcoming into one of our little team meetings where we talk about this. And what really came about is at the time of recording this, we literally, the week before this goes live.

00:00:54
So over the weekend, we actually went to Waco. Yes, it was my first time. Yes. Waco, Texas, which is. I don't know if a lot of people know much about Waco, Texas.

00:01:04
It doesn't strike me that people would. But again, I know very little about these things. Okay, so basically, the whole story leading up to this is that we have some really good friends here in Austin, and they are huge fans of the show fixer upper, which I had no idea. We did not know about this at all. But they were like, okay, there's this show called fixer upper.

00:01:26
Actually, they didn't even give us any context. They were just like, hey, you want to come to this thing in Waco on the weekend? We're just like, yeah, sure, whatever my calendar saying then. And then before then, we were like, oh, just tell us a little bit more about what we're doing. And they're like, yeah, it's Chip and Joanna.

00:01:45
I think gaines have the show called fixer up, and they do up houses for clients all in Waco. And basically they created this, what would you call it? Destination. Yeah. With a ton of different components to it.

00:01:58
Like, they've got a cafe, they've got a bakery, they've got shops. And they were doing this Christmas themed thing at this destination in Waco. And our friends were just really excited to go because they're huge fans. And so we're like, cool. Yep, we'll head over there.

00:02:11
And the cool thing was, they were like, okay, before you go, you should watch at least one episode of Fixer upper. I was like, okay, cool, watch one episode and you watched three, right? I ended up watching three because I love feel good. I mean, I do love renovation shows, let's be honest. And so it was good, though, because I had a bit of an idea going into their destinations called silos at Waco, about what it was that they were trying to build.

00:02:36
And it was really cool because going into that, I immediately got this sense of community around it, which is really. It's not something that happens a lot. It's not like you go into any kind of destination, and maybe you do when it is a destination. Sorry. In my mind, I was thinking like a Dunkin donuts.

00:02:55
It's not like you feel like a sense of community going into just anything, but this definitely had, I thought, a sense of community. I don't know about you, Bona. You didn't watch any fixer upper, so you had nothing going into it. Yeah, I was going to say I'd really just had the very. I think I had the summary from you and when you'd watched it.

00:03:10
So it was actually not a bad thing, I guess, for me to almost be the control around not having watched the show, not really knowing all of that background, not really understanding Waco, Texas as a thing. And I would agree with you to say immediately what smacked me in the face in a good way, I think, was the sense of family, because that's really what these guys are all about. And I think it was just because it's quite thoughtfully curated, the space. And that is immediately obvious. So, to your point, a dunkin'donuts, or a McDonald's or any of these other places, they do have design and layout, but it's not necessarily designed for you to come and stay there for as long as possible and feel connected.

00:03:46
It's like to do something for you, which is to give you your food or your coffee. Yes, for sure. And so that got me thinking about this whole. Because we've definitely been struggling with this community word. I know that.

00:03:59
What was it, like, probably two months ago? Not even. I don't know how many weeks ago. Yeah, we were sitting down and I was like. I literally, because I was exhausted by this time.

00:04:08
And I was like, I know we have to crack this nut, this community nut. And I think I was so overwhelmed by what community means and how we bring it to life for capture. And the thing that I know that people listening to this might be like, but what do you mean? Capture has such a strong community around it, and I think we do, but I don't know how it happened and I don't know what. And to be honest, that scares me because in a way, if you don't know how it happens, you don't know how to replicate it, you don't know how to make it sustainable.

00:04:41
That was all the things that were going through my mind and I was like, is the community just the fact that we have this thing on heartbeat and it's like a digital gathering place for people? Is that what it is? Because I'm going to be honest, I don't know if that's a place that I myself personally want to be spending time in. And so I was just going through this a little bit of a community cris around a vocab show. So that's kind of what we want to talk about.

00:05:08
Yeah, I think it's a really big one because to your point, a lot of communities do start organically, I think. I don't really know the fixed rapper story or any of these other people who've done it really well. Sure, I think there's going to be a handful of people that think very intentionally to go, that's the end game. But it seems like a lot of the time that organic magic that just happens and people start to coalesce around you or the idea or whatever it is starts to happen, and then you go into the mode of like, oh, okay, we've actually got people here that we want to serve. I think that's where it started, even for us at heartbeat, to say, okay, there's all these people.

00:05:37
Now. I think the difference, d if I may, was probably that we, as a software companies, when you were first starting out, we made ourselves very available to our people because we wanted to build the product. We're very product focused and we made ourselves available. And when you make yourselves available, you create connection. And when you create connection, there's just naturally a sense of community.

00:05:55
I look back on those early days. Now, we weren't connecting with people that had all this time in the world. They were joining us for beta testing calls between meetings or on school pickup, just before school pickup. And they said that people were making time because of the connection, I think so. I think that's where it starts for a lot of.

00:06:12
And then executing against is the hard part. And I think that's where we're in the. We've done it somewhat, let's say, and it's not ideal, is what we're feeling. So now we're just going back to basics to say, hang on a minute, what is community? And maybe the gathering place is really just a final sort of, I don't know, consideration.

00:06:30
A big consideration. But that's probably not the starting point. Yeah. And that's something that I do want to. This was a big one for me.

00:06:38
And I don't know if people listening to, if you're listening to this and going like, well, duh, DJ. But a big one for me was like, I guess I always, in my mind, thought the community was, you start with the place. And I think I was saying to you, Bonna, before we even hit record, that it was like, I don't know if that was something that just came out. Because of COVID Yes, because Covid happened and we couldn't physically gather anymore. So then the whole digital circle with Facebook groups, with all that really started to grow.

00:07:08
And so I don't know why, but suddenly in my mind, a community just meant have a Facebook group and get people to join. And that's a community. I think that's right, though, because I think that we were, to be fair, during COVID the location was hyper focus because of the fact, to your point, for the first time in our lives, we had to intentionally think about the where as a starting point because of all of these safety considerations. But also we're like, where is going to be the best place to create the real, as close as possible, the real life stuff. So I think to your point, that is actually really, it's a weird point in history that we had to go through and then that just because then Facebook groups, I remember blowing up and doing really well and circle and all of these places.

00:07:49
So it becoming the dominant consideration, I think that's right. And fairly so, too. Yeah. And so suddenly it's like, in my mind, community just got replaced. The word or the definition of a community just became Facebook group or insert place became a platform.

00:08:06
Yeah. Literally. And I, wow, that was. Okay. This is helpful, actually, because I'm starting to unravel in my mind the starting point and what it is that I now need to really flip in my mind, if we go back to what it is that we're trying to do in building a quote unquote community, it's let's put aside the place and the form of it.

00:08:27
Right. Let's actually dig into what a community means, maybe to us to begin with, and then what that could mean to anyone listening to this. And I would hazard a guess that as an entrepreneur, most of us want to build a community in some form. Now, I'm not going to say, you have to have it, because I'm never going to say that. But definitely, if you're trying to create probably that feeling of connection and maybe even create a feeling more than just the thing that you sell, then a community makes sense.

00:08:59
And again, when I say community, I do not mean place. I don't even mean a membership, because I think that's also what's become almost another definition of community, right. Is like a membership. And people will pay me to be part of this community with. That's also not what I mean.

00:09:17
Right. Let's just strip it right all the way back to basics. That could very much be the outcome. But it's not the thing. You're right.

00:09:24
That's just the form of something versus the actual substance of community. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so when I think back to a few weeks ago when I was like, feeling overwhelmed and we were sitting around a table and I was like, I don't know what to. And Ash said something really insightful. He was like, okay, what is the definition of community to us?

00:09:41
And we went around and he kind of summed it up and he was like, it's really about connection and access. Like two things. Connection and access. Connection with us and with each other, and access to us and to each other. And now when I think about that again, because my starting point is like a group, like a Facebook group or something, a place, I'm like, oh, okay, well, that makes sense because that's how they connect with each other.

00:10:09
But I'm like, is that right? I don't even know now if that is right, because a connection is deeper than. And I realized this actually going to wake to silos at Waco because we weren't there and knew people that were also wandering the grounds. Right. Like, the connection isn't talking to someone.

00:10:28
Yeah. And it could be to like, I want to meet this person, but for me it wasn't that primary. Yeah. The connection was actually a feeling of knowing that you're somewhere that, how do I say this? That other people are also there for.

00:10:42
Does that make sense? You have a common. Yeah, it's not actually like in almost a very, what's the word? Direct way where you're like, let me go and meet more people there and connect with them literally through conversation or something to say, hey, we're also insert commonality, but it's just actually being in a place that's assumed and you get to experience just with your friends or maybe even there by yourself. I don't know how people do this, but you experience that feeling because it's already a given that you have that common values, whatever that is.

00:11:12
It could be, like I said, it could be family, it could be that you actually like to create and curate spaces that are beautiful. It could be you. I don't know, there could be a ton of things, but I think that's probably what you're connecting with. And if on top of that, you happen to meet people there and you strike up a conversation, and then you meet people and connect with them in that sense that we understand it, that's great. But that's not, to your point, the driving factor.

00:11:37
You just know that when you go there, you're going to feel that feeling. Yeah. So it's actually a much deeper. And this is really good for me, even talking it out, because I always thought that community and connection was like, at that level of. I almost feel like it's, I want to say superficial.

00:11:52
It's not superficial, but it's like the top layer. Right. It's like the tip of the iceberg. Yes. And it's actually not that there's actually so much more underneath that, which is where the connection comes in.

00:12:02
And that's actually what starts to build community. It's not actually connecting people to each other, it's actually. How do you create a connection to an individual person, to the values or the vibe, let's say, of the thing that you're building. Yeah. And I would say.

00:12:17
I'm just going to say this. I don't know if it's really true. I would say that then if you take that another step further, like, why is that important? I think what ultimately happens for that person, in this case yourself or myself going to silos, is that when you connect more deeply with that value, or that's been brought to life around you, and it's the external, but really it's the internal, and then it actually, I think, makes you feel more deeply connected with yourself, or at least the part of yourself that either is aspiring towards that value or that is important. Maybe you've forgotten.

00:12:47
It could. That's. And it would be interesting to see what Carl and Alex, who are friends who took us there, how they would put it, because they obviously have a very external, obvious value attachment to what chip and Joanna have built. But I think that's what it is. And the reason I think people, I think back to even why I remember I was saying to you, these people are so busy, but they're making time to jump on calls with us for cap show.

00:13:10
But I think it's because that internal kind of like intrinsic drive comes from they like the person they are when they're interacting with your brand, because then it becomes very natural. And people make time, not to a point, go hang out at a Facebook group and comment on people's posts. But whatever it is that you've created, they make time for it because it makes them more deeply connect with the value you represent, because that makes them feel more connected with themselves. And on top of that, with other people too, potentially, but not in every interaction. Yeah, interesting.

00:13:43
So I think that makes a lot of sense. And then, so when we think about access, then, and this is where I get a little bit unstuck because I'm like, okay, so access is access with us, which people do have. People dm me, they email me, all of that. They have access to you, obviously. So access is definitely always there, which I think people do appreciate.

00:14:03
And then there's access with each other. And the more I was like, okay, was this then why community has become Facebook group? It's the whole access to each other. But I don't think that's also the case because I'm saying this very generally, but really, I mean it for us, right? Because there are some communities and groups and stuff which are thriving because the ideal person that they're building it for is their ideal audience.

00:14:28
When we thought about what that meant for us, it's like, well, actually our whole thing is that we're helping these really busy entrepreneurs do this hard thing. They don't have time to be hanging out in a Facebook group or in heartbeat or wherever else. And that took us because we're like, why is no one here? Why is no one joining? Why does this not seem to be working?

00:14:50
And it's like, well, because people, our people either don't have the time or this isn't something that's important to them, or as in being in gathering spot is not important to them. And so we really have to look at that and go, does that make sense for us? And if it doesn't, then what does access actually look like with each other? And I don't know if you had thoughts around this as well. I do.

00:15:10
I can't pretend that they're fully formed and they're very much percolating. But even as you were talking and the first part of our conversation, I was like, okay, if we keep extending that approach to the word access, to your point, I think what we've done to date is just hit the first layer and absolutely access to us via means and methods we know of that are like real time. That makes sense. But then you go, that's not sustainable either. And that's definitely not what we should build this upon.

00:15:35
That almost just feels like that's available for those emotionally, as an emotional moment between, say, friends. But even if I think about friendship, we're also busy, that we probably meet maybe like once a month or things like that. But the feeling of friendship is always there, especially those friends who you can catch up after three months and just pick up where you left off. Where you left off. What actually goes into that friendship beyond just the text and the call when you can?

00:16:01
So I think it's kind of going, if we continue this trend of going a layer deeper, to me it feels like, and now we have, I guess, the ability to think about creating access in different ways. When I think about access with each other, yep, there's maybe how we've thought about it. But really what we're finding for Capsho is when people want to connect with other Capchauvians, they want to be either inspired or they want to be validated. And what I mean by that is, if they're feeling a little stuck with their content, maybe, or their business, it could be as simple as going, what did people in this situation do? And it may not be jumping on a Facebook group and talking to someone because maybe you didn't feel like talking to someone right now because you're feeling down.

00:16:41
Right. But hey, if I could access information, and obviously you have to repackage information to be more enticing than just words or things to consume. But to say, hey, so and so was at this stage in their business, and this is what they did, it could just be a case study that is really inviting to read or engage with. But now they feel a sense of community and inspiration with someone else that they may not even meet in real life, let's be honest. But maybe they could, we could facilitate that.

00:17:07
So I think it's really actually thinking about those more micro moments, because that's still access. Yes. And the number of feedback that we get even about with you, where people have said they've been captrovians for ages, and they're like, I just love Deirdre's podcast, or I was listening to her talk about this, and you've forgotten you've even done that show, right, or that particular episode, but they feel connected to you. And I'm not talking about parasocial relationships, but it's more like that's a level of access that you're creating by being vulnerable in that moment and being open. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to jump on a call with this person to create access, but it's just having, I think, those things available.

00:17:45
But probably the challenge for us is like, having it available in a way that we can contextualize it for them versus just going, go and search for it and find it, put the onus on them. And I don't know the answer to that, but I feel like that's how people want to feel connected, and then we can obviously layer that on with real life interactions. And I think that's really important. It's not just a purely, just asynchronous situation, but I think that's what it is. Kind of meeting someone where they are right now with what they need, which is a very difficult task.

00:18:16
Not suggesting that, but if we start off with that to go, like, how might we do that? Versus going, oh, I need to be on my emails and my DMS at all times. And you could be, but even then you're hoping that they reach out. Right. That's the other part of it, too.

00:18:29
And that might not always be the case for them. And you bring up a good point because we talk about, obviously we talk about content so much. We are in the business of content, and that's kind of. I think this is a hidden weapon, or I don't mean to make it sound like a bad thing. It's like a benefit, a hidden that we're wielding.

00:18:46
It's too. It's a positive weapon. A hidden benefit of content is that it is access to you. Yes. We're very intentional, as you know, to be like, shelve the shoes and be focused on just a handful of platforms that you can be on.

00:19:05
And we would always say you have more than one because then you're actually allowing people to have more access to you. That's a really different way of thinking about content, rather than just the very superficial. I have to be everywhere so that I can try to be visible. Yes, it's that. But it's actually why you're doing it is because you want people to have that access.

00:19:26
Absolutely. And I think we're already doing it. Maybe you and I didn't sit down and have this conversation, but to your point, if we take the example of the LinkedIn newsletter again, you've already decided to be on LinkedIn, so it's not adding something else. And we had that conversation about feeling overwhelmed and then deciding to shelve the shoulds and you said, let's just rebrand the newsletter to shelve the shoulds. And the tone of the newsletter has changed from being obsessed with adding value and giving information, which is, like you said, adding value has to be important, but where it's more vulnerable, where it's more saying, hey, this is with the lens of entrepreneurship, and this is, hey, you can't do all of these things.

00:20:02
But this is what I've done. This is where I've. And it sounds very. When you say it like that, it's very obvious. But I think it's just those tweaks to say, okay, now, hopefully people reading the newsletter or who are following you on LinkedIn, they're always there, but now hopefully feel a different level of access to you because you are being kind of, you're just changing the perspective a little bit.

00:20:23
The content and the level of value you want to provide is still there. And to your point, we're already investing the time and energy to be on these platforms. I think it's just changing the intention and thinking about it with the, okay, how can I be more connected with the person reading this, even if it's, whether it's one person or 1000 people, and how can they feel a level of access to me? And then it's kind of going, we'll take it further to say that the call to action, if someone's reading this and really feeling it now, we have to be more intentional about where we lead them next, to give them more access without it being time on you, like literal time on you. So I think that's how content can play a really good role in this.

00:20:59
And the people who are great at this have been doing it for a long time. I guess we just didn't have the community lens on it. And that's where they'll feel connected. And you're not asking more of their time to go, actually, if you want that, jump over here and introduce yourself and talk to ten people. I don't want to be doing that right now.

00:21:14
Yeah, maybe once a year. And I totally get that because as an introvert, as someone who's shy and digitally awkward, that's not something that I would want to be part of. So why. To say that people would, I think even extroverts necessarily don't want to do that, right? Yeah.

00:21:34
So why would we force that on other people? Okay. This has been quite, I hope as you're listening to this, you're like, you're probably really confused about this episode because you're like, I don't know where this is going, to be honest. We didn't know where it was going either, so apologize for that. I do like to be a little bit more prepared as for the podcast, but I thought this was a really good one, just to almost round the year out with, because Christmas was, by the time this goes live, Christmas was yesterday.

00:22:00
Yeah. Exciting. And I find this period now, this magical period between Christmas and new year, everything's going to get done. Everything's going to get done. But also it really is a time of reflection.

00:22:12
And for us, 2024 is creeping up incredibly quickly. So incredibly quickly. And we kind of love and hate them. Like, I hate them, because, no, I have so much more to do. Don't leave me, 2023.

00:22:27
I'm not ready. I'm not ready. But I also love New Year's because it almost feels like a clean slate in a way, right, where you can just be like, all right, we tried all the things and a lot of things did not work. So how do we make this even better going to the year? And one of these things for us personally is community.

00:22:44
And I would hazard a guess that for a lot of anyone listening to this, even if you have a really well performing community, whatever that means and looks like to you, there's always scope for it to be better, maybe even just needs a refresh. I find that communities are like that, that it's never just said and this whole. And we're definitely going to go into way more detail in Capsho's life. Actually, Bono and I have a dedicated session just on community. And this is just a start.

00:23:17
Right? Like how we're thinking about it now is the start, but we're going to be, by the time that Capsho's live rolls around, which is going to be in, oh, my gosh, a month's time. Even less. Even less. We're going to have very tangible steps in terms of how we've thought about it, what we've implemented, and what we would encourage fellow entrepreneurs to be, how we would encourage them to think about their community as well.

00:23:39
But it's just such a great time because community, I think, is the blood source. The blood source? No, the blood. I feel like it's not it, but I don't know what it is. Yeah, it's related.

00:23:50
Yeah. But it's the heart, the lifeblood. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I knew blood was in there. I genuinely do believe it's the lifeblood of thriving business, because if you don't have a community, there's no way that you can create raving fans.

00:24:05
And I don't mean community like a Facebook group or I do mean community in the way that we're thinking about it now, which is that connection, that access. And it's like deep connection and deep access, because without that, people, you're just another commodity. You're just another tool. Right? Another bill.

00:24:23
Yeah, another bill, exactly. So unless you can build that community, whatever that means and looks like for you, then I would hazard a guess that you don't have a business like a truly sustainable one. And so this is what I've been thinking about more and more, and this is what we're going to be putting a lot of mind to and what we're going to be sharing more about at Capchovians Live. So this is now the call to action for this episode, which is if you do not have your ticket to capture and slive, you are missing out on a massive, massive opportunity to really kick 2020 off in the year 2024 off in the right way. Because I know I'm speaking from the sense of, yeah, we're putting some things together, but I personally am so looking forward to learning from the other speakers, myself, personally, for our business and connecting with all of the other.

00:25:13
It's a very intimate group that's going to be there, but connecting with everyone to be like, well, what are you doing and what are you thinking about and what are you focusing on? How can I support? But also, in a way, how can we maybe work together or collaborate to make the things that we're looking to do even better in 2024? That's what I selfishly, it's like creating this event for me to get things out of it. But the great thing is by doing that, I'm guaranteeing that everyone else is going to get that, if not more totally as well.

00:25:44
Yeah, that's what I'm excited. I'm excited about. So if you don't have your ticket to capture live, go to www.capchovianslive.com. And that is happening in Orlando in January, 23 and 24th. So it's today workshop intimate style event, and we are going to be looking after you the whole two days.

00:26:05
It's going to be amazing. It's going to be amazing. Okay, well, thank you so much for joining us. I hope you had an amazing Christmas or however you like to celebrate with your family and friends and your close ones. And I cannot wait to really go into 2024 with you with a bang.

00:26:24
So thanks for listening. This is Deirdre Tshien. This is Bona Rai. And stay awesome. Bye.