The Search Warrant, The ATF and Brian Malinowski

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March twentieth, twenty twenty four,
in the early morning hours, while sleeping,

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Brian Malanowski and his wife are awakened
by the crashing sound of their front

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door being forced open. Panicked and
scared, Brian grabs his firearm and peers

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down the dark hallway. He sees
a large figure headed towards him and fires.

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Brian misses, but sees the bullet
ricochet strike the assailant just as the

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assailant returns fire, striking Brian Malanowski
in the head and killing him. Brian's

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wife, frozen in fear, is
snatched from the bedroom and dragged outside for

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four hours as her husband laid dying. When the smoke cleared, it was

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discovered that this operation was courtesy of
the ATF. In the ensuing investigation into

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this incident is shocking. Welcome to
exposed scandalous files of the elite, the

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search warrant, the ATF, and
Brian Malinowski. Hey everyone, welcome back.

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First, I want to say I
appreciate everyone following us liking a shareness.

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It's why we have the success that
we have so early on and we

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couldn't do it without you, So
please continue to do that. And as

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always I like to get right into
our exposed file for today, So stay

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tuned after this episode for some announcements
upcoming in y'all this story that I'm about

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to tell you, you are not
going to believe this happened. I'm going

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to start off giving you a little
history of what the ATF does. And

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the ATF is the Alcohol, Tobacco
and Firearms division of the government, and

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just as you would think, firearms
are a big part of what they do,

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especially as it comes to licensing.
If you're a pawn shop or if

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you are a gun dealer of some
sort, they're the people that are going

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to make sure that you're following all
the rules, whether it's background check,

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along with other rules. And we'll
get into some of those. So March

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twenty first, twenty twenty four,
and I'm sourcing the Arkansas Democrat Gazette and

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the headline says Little Rock Airport director
Brian Malanowski is dead after ATF shootout,

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commissioner confirms. So I'm going to
read you a quick article that's going to

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put this into context. And this
was on March twentieth of twenty twenty four.

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This was from NBC's website guy by
the name of Patrick Smith, and

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it says the executive director of the
Bill and Hillary Clinton National Airport in Little

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Rock, Arkansas, was shot Tuesday
as federal officials arrived at his home to

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serve a search warrant. Brian Malanowski, fifty three, the airport's executive director,

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was injured during a firefight after six
am as the Bureau of Alcohol,

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Tobacco and Firearms and Explosive A agents
arrived. He was injured with gunshot wounds

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and treated on the scene by paramedics
before being transported to a local hospital that

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from the Arkansas State Police. One
ATF agent received what police called a non

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life threatening gunshot wound and was also
taken to the hospital. Malanowski's older brother,

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Matthew fifty five, of Pennsylvania,
was at his bedside Wednesday and said

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he didn't know whether his brother would
survive. The article goes on to say

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some other things, but the pertinent
stuff I just gave you, all right,

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So how does this happen? How
does an airport executive, as a

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matter of fact, the highest paid
official in the city of Little Rock,

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Arkansas, end up not only getting
shot in a raid, but being the

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target of the at and the interesting
thing about this case, and let me

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give you a little history on this. I was unaware of this and was

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doing research for some other cases that
I'm working on. Came across the congressional

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hearings that are actually occurring right now
with the director of the ATF, saw

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a particular clip that kind of caught
my eye, watched the clip, and

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then ended up watching a three hour
congressional hearing on this case. And I

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couldn't believe what I heard, and
I couldn't believe that I hadn't heard about

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this previously. So as I did
my research, and I guess, as

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luck would have it, the search
warrant that was originally sealed on this case

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had been unsealed by a judge,
so I was able to get my hands

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on those search warrants. And let
me explain to you how search warrants work.

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In order to get a search warrant, you have to have permission from

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a judge. They have to sign
off on that search warrant. In order

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to get them to sign off on
it, you have to turn in at

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what's done as an affidavit for probable
cause, and that affidavit is basically a

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letter detailing all your evidence that you
have that makes you think it is necessary

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to search someone's house or search someone's
car, things of that nature. In

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this case, a search warrant was
signed for Brian Malanowski's house and Brian Malanski's

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vehicle. Now it's important to note, and you want to keep this in

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mind, it was a search warrant, not an arrest warrant. They're very

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different, and the way that you
go about serving those should be very different.

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So I've went through the affidavit of
probable cause and the search warrants so

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that you don't have to. And
I'm going to cover to you exactly what

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happened to put Brian Malanowski on the
ATF's radar. And I'm also going to

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cover with you some obvious things that
they did that I feel were wrong.

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And before I get into any of
that, let me say something. Ninety

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nine point nine percent of the ATF
are great people. They're doing great things.

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There's good and bad in every profession, as we know. But after

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reviewing this case, I'll give you
this little hint about what I personally think

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about it. There was a big
time failure of leadership here and it led

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to someone's death. As I told
you, there was a warrant to search

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and seize the home and vehicle of
Brian Malanowski. And I'll go ahead and

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give you a spoiler alert. I
guess on this he was shot and killed

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during the execution of this warrant.
And this warrant was based on him being

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what's known as an unlawful of guns. Okay, so a gun dealer without

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a license. Think of it that
way. When you are a gun dealer,

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you have to have a license.
And the difference there between someone that's

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licensed and someone that's not is someone
that's licensed has to perform a background check.

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If you go to a pawnshop you
buy a gun, they're going to

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run a background check on you to
make sure you're not Osama bin Laden or

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somebody. Right, if you go
to a gun show, you don't have

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to have a bout background check ran
on you because those are considered in a

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lot of cases hobbyists. And I'm
not going to get into the legalities one

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way or the other necessarily, but
just to let you know the difference between

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those two situations. So at some
point in time prior to this search warrant.

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As you may be aware, there's
a situation where Brian Malanowski got on

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the ATF's radar. So let's talk
first about how he ended up on their

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radar. It appears that there was
a confidential informant in Canada that took pictures

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of these firearms. And we really
don't know a whole lot about that.

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We just know somehow he came in
contact with some firearms, he took pictures

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of them, he sent those to
the Canadian police. The Canadian police then

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ran the serial numbers. They could
see the serial numbers, and some of

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these pictures ran the serial numbers and
some of them came up with Brian Malanowski's

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name, So they traced those seral
numbers. So the ATF gets this information

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and they're like, who's this Brian
Malanowski guy, And of course they start

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kind of digging into who he is. And as they start looking into him,

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and this is what they'll do.
The first thing they'll do is we'll

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see how many firearms you have bought
over time? Right, So they in

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this case, they looked at a
three year period and they saw that Brian

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Malinowski had bought one hundred and fifty
guns in that three year period. That's

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a lot of guns. It's not
illegal. You can buy as many guns

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as you want, there's nothing illegal
about that. But you're going to raise

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some eyebrows at the ATF if you
do that, because it is a lot

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of guns. And what they're doing
at this point is they're trying to build

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probable costs. They're basically trying to
say it's more probable that he is a

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gun dealer than not basically engaging in
the business of selling firearms without a federal

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firearms license. People do this.
It occurs. They may be trying to

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avoid the paperwork aspect of it,
because you have to run those back round

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checks when you're a licensed firearms dealer. They may be trying to avoid the

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fees. There's fees to maintain that
license. So it may be totally innocent

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why they're doing it. And I
say innocent in the respect that they may

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be not necessarily trying to have bad
intentions and sell, you know, firearms

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to a country that's not friendly to
the United States something like that. They

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you know, they're just selling them
at gun shows or whatever. But it's

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a problem. I mean, you
don't want guns ending up in the hands

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of a bunch of felons if you
can avoid it, right, So that's

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their suspicion. They're trying to build
probable calls on that, and the radar

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goes up because of the amount of
firearms he's purchased. Then it gets more

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interesting. They they start looking at
what type of firearms he was purchasing,

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and a lot of these twenty five
models of the same Okay, so a

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glock forty two a person that's not
dealing in firearms for a litting right,

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they're not going to buy twenty five
block forty twos. Just not going to

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happen. This guy had at least
multiples, so three or more of the

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same brand and type of gun purchased
over and over again out of those one

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hundred and fifty guns. So he
was buying identical brands manufacturers of guns,

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and that raises flags. Then they
find a firearm and the way they found

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that firearm, and this firearm was
licensed also to Brian Malanowski. The way

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they found it, they pulled a
guy over and the police go up to

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the it's a traffic interaction. He
was speeding. Police go up to the

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vehicle they smell marijuana. The search
of the vehicle and they find a firearm

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registered to Brian Malanowski or that was
the original purchaser of that gun. Well,

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this happens three times within short order
with three different people, so now

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he's really on the radar. So
at this point they go back, they

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start going back to distributors and they
get what's done as forty four to seventy

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threes. These are the forms that
if you're a gun dealer and you sell

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a gun to an individual, you
have to turn in what's known as a

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forty four seventy three and that's just
paperwork so that a background check, et

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cetera can be ran on that individual. And Brian Mantlanawski was buying these guns

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legally from a dealer. From a
matter of fact, it was a particular

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website he was going to, and
so the paperwork trail was there, and

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that's how they knew how many not
only how many guns he had bought,

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but the brands of guns he had
bought. They start at that point undercover

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operation. And Brian Malanowski was very
active in going to gun shows and having

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booths in gun shows as a matter
of fact, and an undercover agent starts

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going to these gun shows and he
sees Brian Malanowski there and he's setting up

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boosts. Right, He's got guns
laid out on a table. He's talking

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to people and he's telling them how
much a gun cost. Look, use

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your common sense on that. He's
definitely selling firearms as more of, let's

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say, a side hustle than a
hobby. Okay, And that's not going

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to be my argument in this situation
because to me, it's apparent he was,

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you know, technically breaking the law. So they're looking at the totality

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of these circumstances in order to build
this search warrant. They put together a

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case. They even have have a
particular ATF agent buy guns from Brian Malinowski

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at gun shows. You know,
they're surveilling him constantly, and he knows

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none of this is going on.
He has no clue about any of this.

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So they get the warrants signed for
both his vehicle and his house.

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Now, again, these are search
warrants. These are not arrest warrants.

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There is a difference. But why
do they want these search warrants? Well,

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they want to look at his electronics, they want to get a hold

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of that. They want to look
at his cell phone, they want to

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look for paper records, they want
to look for receipts, they want his

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actual firearm inventory. Because they don't
necessarily have all the proof yet for an

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arrest, but they're pretty sure the
search warrants will lead to that. So

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that's why they don't have an a
arrest warrant at the time. A judge's

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not going to sign one. They
don't have enough proof, at least that's

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the way they felt, so they
didn't try to get in a rest warm

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and that tells you something in that
too. You want to stay off of

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the ATF's radar. Don't buy multiples
of the same gun. It's legal to

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do that. You're not doing anything
illegal, But unless you have a good

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reason for doing that, you're probably
going to go on that radar. I

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mean, maybe it's you and your
wife and you buy two of the same

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block. You know, you get
matching blocks. There's nothing wrong with that,

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and that's fun. You can do
that, but be aware you're probably

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gonna go on the ATF radar.
I've heard that you should never buy two

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guns within five days of each other
for that same reason. It'll kind of

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raise a flag with the ATF.
Personally, Hey, I'm a law abiding

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citizen. I'll buy twenty if they're
for my personal use. I'm not going

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to hesitate to buy as many guns
as I feel like I want to buy

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at that time. If the ATF
wants to come talk to me about it,

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that's fine too. And let me
say this, the ATF probably a

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lot of those guys are hobbyists too. If you go into a career and

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you decide to go into the ATF, you probably love firearms. But there's

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good and bad in every profession.
I'm gonna tell you what. Somebody screwed

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the fuck up on this one.
So they get that search warrant, and

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on the search warrants, they have
a certain day that that search warrant has

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to be served by these particular search
warrants. The date was the date that

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this whole incident went down, the
twentieth of March. That was the last

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day they had. And you can't
serve search warrants just any time of day.

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As a matter of fact, in
this particular case, they could not

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serve that search warrant before six o'clock. Can't show up at five. You

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got to show up at six,
and I think the cutoff on that was

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ten o'clock at night, so they
had that window. Obviously, my opinion,

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they're going to serve it as early
as possible. You have a better

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chance of catching someone while they're groggy, their mind is not all about them.

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It's early in the morning. So
they meet at a date and it

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was not the twentieth it was the
prior week and they needed a Walmart and

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someone determines, uh, oh,
Brian Malanowski is non home. And that's

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a key part to this case.
Listen to what I just said. They

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had everybody ready to go, they
meeted a Walmart parking lot. It's early

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in the morning. Someone figures out
Brian Malanowski is not home, so they

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call it off. Now why why
call it off? The person doesn't have

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to be there to serve a search
warrant. They can be forced states a

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way, you can break in their
house and search whatever you want. You

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have a warrant to do that.
But they didn't. They wanted him there,

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and you're gonna see why as we
go on through this podcast. So

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the search warrant does not get served
that day, it gets served on the

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twentieth and I just read you at
the beginning of this podcast a little article

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that covered the quote unquote shootout if
you will between Malanowski and the ATF.

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So i'll pick up there, and
as I told you, Brian Malanowski was

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shot. He was brought to the
hospital, and I'm gonna read you this.

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This was March twenty first of twenty
twenty four. This is from the

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Arkansas Democrat Casette. Little Rock Airport
Director Brian Malanowski dead after ATF shootout.

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Commissioner confirms the executive director of the
Bill and Hillary Clinton National Airport was shot

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in the head by federal officials in
a shootout Tuesday morning and has died with

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a heavy heart. We announced the
passing of our executive director, Brian Malanowski.

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This from Bill Walker, who was
the chair of the Little Rock Airport

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Commission. Brian was a sixteen year
employee of the airport. Under his leadership,

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our airport has experienced significant growth and
success, expanding services and offerings to

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our community in state. And he
also offered condolences to Malanowski's family and friends.

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It goes on to say he opened
fire on officers as they attempted to

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search a search warrant at his home
located in West Little Rock. A man

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that was making two hundred and sixty
four thousand dollars a year was the head

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of the Little Rock Airport, the
highest paid official working for the city of

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Little Rock, dead in a shootout. Now, none of that money necessarily

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matters, but it's important to the
story in that this guy was not your

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typical arms dealer and he atf knew
it. They're not stupid, they have

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common sense, and it's my belief
this could have been completely avoided and a

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man's dead now because of it.
So what happened, what happened during that

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raid, And I want you to
put yourself what really grabbed me during this

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story is this could have been any
of us. And I'm going to tell

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you why right here. And the
New York Times did a great job of

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really covering what happened. So I'm
going to reference that the loud noises outside

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their bedroom door woke them before dawn. Brian Malinowski bolted up and looked at

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his wife stay back. She remembers
him saying, after he reached you to

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the drawer for his gun and loaded
it, he crept into a hallway of

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their home in Little Rock, Arkansas, and saw figures in the darkness.

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He started shooting and was met with
a return fire. The people shooting back

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in him were agents of the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Division, executing a

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search warrant on suspicion that Malanowski had
repeatedly sold guns without a license. What

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made this different for many confrontations was
that mister Malanowski was a respected official in

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the community and a director of the
Little Rock Airport. Mister Malanowski shot an

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agent in the foot as the agents
fired back, a bullet struck Malanowski fifty

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three in the head, and two
days later he died in the hospital.

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His death has been met by outrage
from his family, friends, and gun

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rights supporters in Arkansas and beyond,
who say the raid on March nineteenth was

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ill conceived, unnecess necessary, in
a shocking case of government overreach. Why

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couldn't this be avoided, his wife
said in a recent interview at her home,

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where newly patched bullet holes lined the
walls. Republicans in Congress are asking

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the same question, and a hearing
Thursday, the House Judiciary Committee grilled the

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director ATF's Stephen deddelboch about this case, one of the latest tension points in

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the country's bitter divide on access to
guns, but in a heavily armed nation

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where legal gun sales are linked with
other violent crimes, Some law enforcement experts

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have defended both the investigation of mister
Malanowski and the need for serving search warrants.

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Early in the morning, shortly after
the raid, the ATF revealed that

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it had been investigating mister Malanowski for
months on suspicion he was selling a large

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number of firearms at gun shows without
a license sometime soon after he bought them.

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The law at the time was vague, exempting people who occasionally sold guns

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as a hobby, but not spelling
out how many sales was too many.

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The evidence gathered by the ATF convinced
a judge to sign a search warrant,

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leading the agents to enter the home
on a quiet cul de sac that morning.

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And it goes on to discuss,
you know, he was a well

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respected member of the community, wealthy, lived in a wealthy neighborhood, etc.

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Some important things to note. Why
was he killed? Well, here's

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what happened. When the smoke cleared
the ATF shows up at that same Walmart

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on the twentieth of March, and
it is ten to twelve vehicles, estimated

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between forty and fifty agents, and
they descend upon Brian Malanowski's house in a

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quiet little subdivision. They get out
of the vehicles and the ring camera captures

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this. They go to the front
door. One of the ATF officers has

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a piece of black tape ready to
go and he sticks it right over the

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ring camera. Now, why do
you do that? Then they kick open

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the door. That's right. They
had what's known as a no knock warrant.

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Now, are there situations where a
no knock warrant is okay? Yes?

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Yeah. If you've got a serial
killer in a house and you're pretty

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sure of it and you've got an
arrest warrant, you're not exactly gonna want

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to knock on the door and say
police, you know, open the door.

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Likely the assailant will run. But
Brian Malanowski was not someone that you

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would need to have a no knock
warrant to serve a search warrant. For

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the law says you, these have
to be extremely limited circumstances where you have

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a no knock warrant, And there's
a reason for that. If you're on

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the other side of that door,
you don't know who's busting in your house.

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Brian Malanowski and his wife were in
bed asleep, the front door bust

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open. It's still dark outside.
They hear this, they wake up,

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and what's he do? The same
thing? I would do the same thing.

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Likely everybody listening to this would do. You grab your gun, you

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load your gun. You look down
the hallway, you see figures. Nobody's

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identified themselves, nobody's announced themselves.
Hey, atf put your hands up.

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How do we know this Brian Malanowski's
wife because they didn't have body cameras on.

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Not only did they cover the tape
on the door, they didn't have

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on body cameras, which body cameras
are designed to protect both the citizen and

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the police. Look, let's be
honest. Body cameras are on everybody for

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one reason. You want to avoid
a circumstance whereas he said, she said,

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And a body camera is gonna tell
the truth. It has audio on

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it, so you're not only gonna
hear what occurred, but you're gonna see

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what occurred. It protects both the
police and the citizen. None of them

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have body cameras on, and we're
gonna get into why they say they didn't

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have them on and why I think
they didn't have them on in just a

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minute, but they bust in.
Brian Malanowski jumps out of the bed.

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He's protecting his wife. He shoots
down that hallway when he sees these figures,

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he has no you know, this
is the this could be the devil

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himself coming to kill me. He
shoots a bullet, hits something, The

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ricochet hits the ATF agent's foot.
They fire, meaning the ATF shoot Brian

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Malanowski in the head. He eventually
dies two days later in the hospital.

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They then grab his wife, pull
her out of the bed. Now her

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husband's just shot. At this point, maybe they said, worre ATF come

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on, I don't know, but
they grab her, They pull her out

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of the house. They put her
in a police car for four hours.

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Several times, while she's sitting in
that police car, she's asking, how's

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my husband? You know, this
lady's probably crying, she's in pieces.

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How's my husband? They won't even
answer. Major failure here. Whoever led

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these men to do that needs to
be fired immediately. You fucked up.

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You're a dumb ass. Use some
common sense. They've been investigating that guy

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for months, they knew his movements, they were following him. This guy

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is not the head of a gang
that is dealing arms with the mafia.

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This guy is the head of the
airport in Little Rocket. Look. He's

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doing this probably because he loves guns. It's a side hustle. Did they

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have a right to get a search
warrant? Was that search warrant? Vallot?

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Absolutely? This guy was definitely selling
guns beyond a hobby. If you're

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buying that many guns and you've got
thirteen guns laid out a gun show,

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00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:26.359
you're probably doing it more as a
side hustle than a hobby. And he

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probably should have been registered. So
I'm not saying they were in the wrong

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for the suspicion. And I'm not
saying this guy was not dealing guns without

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a license, because as much as
I hate to say it, he probably

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was. It looks to me like
he was. But this was not a

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guy that if they knocked on the
door and said, mister MALLANASKI it's the

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ATF. We need you to open
up. He's coming to the door.

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This guy's not running out the back
window. He's got a wife and he's

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got a job where he's making three
hundred thousand dollars a year that he don't

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want to lose. He probably would
have admitted to it. Hey, it's

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not he wouldn't have got the death
penalty. He'd have gotten some trouble,

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but he's not going to go shooting
at the ATF over this. He would

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have probably played dumb and just said, I didn't rise. I was supposed

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to have a license. I thought
you could sell it a you know,

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a gun show without a license.
And he partially would have been correct.

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I mean, it is very unclear, and we're going to get into that.

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But now he's dead. So as
I read you in that article,

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and this just occurred last week,
hearings with the House Judiciary Committee started and

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they had several different people testify.
One of them was the ATF director himself,

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00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:52.839
guy by the name of Stephen Dedelboch. Another one was the family attorney

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00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:59.160
for Brian Malanowski, who also,
interestingly enough, had a lot of experience.

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00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:00.599
He was a federal pros akeater,
so he kind of knows how that

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00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:04.160
side of government works, and I'm
going to play you a clip, and

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00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:11.720
this clip is representative Jim Jordan from
Ohio, and it kind of opens the

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00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:18.519
hearings on the ATF planning that raid
on Brian Malinowski. And it's pretty hard

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00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:22.200
to beat the way Jim Jordan sums
it up here. So I'm going to

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play that for you. Here's that. We'll begin hearing with opening statement.

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Chair recognizes himself. Government's not supposed
to change the rules without a vote of

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Congress. Executive branch executes the laws. Legislative branch passes the laws. But

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00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:40.559
when you bypass that format, which
is exactly what the ATF has done,

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00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:42.920
you get all kinds of bad things. First, it was the pistol brace

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00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:48.720
rule. November twenty six, twenty
twelve, the ATF told the inventor of

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the pistol brace quote he would not
be subject to the National Firearms Act.

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Last year they changed the rule after
twelve years, change the rule. By

356
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:05.319
the way, the pistol brace was
put together to help disabled veterans be able

357
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:08.160
to shoot, be able to practice
and shoot at the range. Now with

358
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:12.640
the rule change, if you don't
turn it in get rid of it,

359
00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:16.400
you become a felon. Then it
was a policy change that the ATF enacted.

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The ATF now says if a Federal
firearms licensee makes a mistake on the

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00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:25.759
form, even if it's a clerical
mistake, well that now equals a quote

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00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:30.359
wilful falsifying of records and they could
lose their license. In fact, one

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00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:36.799
hundred and fifty seven FFLs lost their
license last year. In this gotcha game

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00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:42.200
that the ATF is playing with people
who are in the business of selling firearms,

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00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:47.359
and the pressure to deal with what
the ATF comes out and finds you've

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00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:52.480
made some mistake on the form,
many people are just voluntarily giving up their

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00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:57.720
FFL twenty four in twenty twenty one, sixty nine in twenty twenty two to

368
00:32:57.839 --> 00:33:04.319
eighty people last year gave up their
license versus dealing with the hassle from the

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00:33:04.359 --> 00:33:08.559
agency that's supposed to help them comply, not put them out of business.

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00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:15.720
And finally, there's the new definition
of who actually needs a Federal firearms license.

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00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:19.880
Since nineteen sixty eight, the definition
said it had to be your principal

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00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:24.720
livelihood. Principal livelihood in the business
is selling firearms. You needed that if

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00:33:24.759 --> 00:33:30.640
you were doing that you needed an
FFL. But this past Monday, new

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00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:36.000
definition was put in place said if
you're earning a profit atf doesn't be able

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00:33:36.039 --> 00:33:38.720
to can't really define what that means. To sell one gun to your cousin,

376
00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:43.240
made ten dollars, made fifty dollars
on the sale of a gun,

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00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:47.759
two guns to someone ten guns.
In fact, they couldn't even tell how

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00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:53.160
tell the court how it works,
this new definition. When you make up

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00:33:53.200 --> 00:34:00.000
the rules as you go, bad
things happen. You lose your life,

380
00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:04.240
livelihood for a clerical air, you
become a felon for having a pistol brace

381
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:09.000
they told you was legal for twelve
years, and you might even get shot.

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That's what happened to Brian Malanowski just
two months ago. We have Brian's

383
00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:20.360
widow with us today. She was
here with us yesterday heard some powerful testimony

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00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:23.920
from US attorney Bud Cummings, who
represents the Malanowski family. In fact,

385
00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:29.679
I'm gonna read from mister Cummings testimony
that he gave in this room yesterday.

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00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:34.119
It's legal to buy, trade,
and sell guns without a Federal Firearms license

387
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:38.000
if you are a collector or hobbyist. But at some point the ATF decided

388
00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:44.039
that Brian Malanowski had crossed a murky
line and he was no longer a hobbyist.

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00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:50.079
Because of that, ATF concluded he
was required to purchase a two hundred

390
00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:54.719
dollars federal firearms license before he sold
any more guns. I call it murky

391
00:34:55.480 --> 00:35:00.679
because there is no bright line test. It's truly subjective, but one thing

392
00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:07.599
seems certain. Bryan Malanowski received no
warning. His family, his friends,

393
00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:12.639
his work colleagues would all guarantee you
he loved his career and he would have

394
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:16.400
never knowingly jeopardized it over a weekend
hobby. His real job, his main

395
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:22.360
job, the only job was he
ran the Bill and Hillary Clinton Airport in

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00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:25.400
Little Rock, Arkansas. Highest paid
official in the municipal government made two hundred

397
00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:30.559
and sixty thousand dollars a year.
But on March nineteenth, at six oh

398
00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:37.559
one am, over one hour before
sun up, ten car loads of ATF

399
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:44.440
agents and Little Rock Police Department officers
came to the Malinowski home to execute their

400
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:49.559
search warrant, not an arrest warrant, search warrant. At six h two

401
00:35:49.639 --> 00:35:54.760
forty six am, ATF agents in
full swap gear approached the front door They

402
00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:59.159
had a piece of tape ready to
cover the camera lens of the doorbell camera,

403
00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:04.719
which they did. Next, Missus
Malanowski heard only a loud crash as

404
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:08.280
her front door caved in. Her
husband, Brian, woke up to the

405
00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:13.159
sound of the crash, found a
pistol, loaded a magazine, and left

406
00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:19.599
the bedroom to investigate. Brian warned
his wife to stay behind in the bedroom,

407
00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:24.639
but Mayor stubbornly followed him down the
hallway. The ATF apparently killed electricity

408
00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:29.840
to the home. The front room
was usually well lit at night, but

409
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:34.719
missus Malanowski saw only darkness as she
peered down towards the front entryway. She

410
00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:38.519
could only see shadowy outlines of presumed
home invaders standing in her front hallway.

411
00:36:39.159 --> 00:36:45.000
That's what Brian saw too. Brian
fired a few shots at the intruder's feet

412
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:49.239
to drive them back out of the
front door. The ATF shot Brian in

413
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:53.400
the head. His wife was standing
inches away from him a mere fifty seven

414
00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:59.559
seconds. Fifty seven seconds he lapsed
from the time. Agents covered the doorbell

415
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:06.960
camera until gunshots erupted and Brian was
fatally wounded six two forty six to six

416
00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:13.079
SOHO three forty three agents immediately dragged
missus Malanowski into the front yard. She

417
00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:16.719
was barefoot, wearing minimal night clothing, and the temperature was thirty four degrees.

418
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:22.000
They locked her in the backseat of
a car and detained her there for

419
00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:27.960
four hours, refusing her many requests
to check on her husband. Her husband

420
00:37:28.039 --> 00:37:31.840
she had just seen shot, wouldn't
allow her to get close or even use

421
00:37:32.119 --> 00:37:37.800
the neighbor's bathroom. Even though policies
have been in place at both the ATF

422
00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:42.440
and the Little Rock Police Department for
the past three years requiring the use of

423
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:47.280
body worn cameras when executing any search
warrant, the Department of Justice tells us

424
00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:54.079
that no body cameras were used.
If this isn't the weaponization of government,

425
00:37:54.519 --> 00:37:58.840
I don't know what is. I
don't know what is, mister Dettelbach.

426
00:37:58.880 --> 00:38:01.159
We're gonna have questions about this and
a host of other things the ATF has

427
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:07.000
done under your watch. So that
was a pretty good summation of the events

428
00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:14.400
of that day. And then Representative
Jordan he had the opportunity to question the

429
00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:22.280
ATF director Steven Dettelback directly about that
deadly raid on Brian Malinowski, and he

430
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:25.880
wanted to know specifically, what were
you trying to hide? Why did you

431
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:34.079
put that tape on the ring doorbell
camera? Why weren't you wearing body cameras

432
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:37.800
that day? So here's that,
mister dettelback. What were you trying to

433
00:38:37.880 --> 00:38:44.360
hide on the raid on March nineteenth
to mister Malinowski's house, disabled the doorbell

434
00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:49.239
camera, cut electricity to the house, and you didn't wear body cameras.

435
00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:52.760
What were you guys trying to hide, mister chairman, Uh, not trying

436
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:59.159
to hide things. In fact,
after the after the guy's cut electricity to

437
00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:05.000
the house, after the that's a
question I'm trying to answer after the Okay,

438
00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:07.239
if there's no question, that's sign
No, that is a question did

439
00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:13.119
you after the After the incident,
we along with the Little Rock Police,

440
00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:19.440
called for an independent investigation being done
by the Arkansas State Police and the local

441
00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:22.679
prosecutor. No, that's not trying
to hide anything. I asked three questions,

442
00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:24.679
why did you put the tape on
the doorbell camera, why'd you cut

443
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:28.519
the lights? And why didn't you
wear the body cams? And what are

444
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:32.360
you trying to hide? And mister
chairman, the reason that we called for

445
00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:36.800
the investigation is We're not trying to
hide anything. The reason I'm not going

446
00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:40.639
to talk about what's going on in
that investigation is to respect its independence and

447
00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:45.920
out of fairness. There's a reason
for the Department of Justice policy that's existed

448
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:50.519
for so many decades about not commenting
and pending matters. It's not fair to

449
00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:57.679
people it and it risks the perception
that people are trying to influence in Why

450
00:39:57.679 --> 00:40:00.599
do you ignore the rules? Because
don't if the rules don't. The rules

451
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:07.840
say you should only use a no
knock entrance into a property if it's the

452
00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:09.480
only way, if it's the absolute
best way to do it. I can

453
00:40:09.559 --> 00:40:15.639
read from Miss Monico's directive limit the
circumstances in which agents may seek to interdwelling

454
00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:19.639
and pursue into a warrant without complying
with the knock and announce rule because of

455
00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:22.239
the risk pose to both law enforcement
and civilians. So you want to limit

456
00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:25.280
this, why'd you guys, why'd
you guys do it all in fifty seven

457
00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:32.280
seconds? Respectfully? With respect to
what I said before, is that we

458
00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:37.440
are not trying to hide anything.
An independent agency is investigating it, and

459
00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:40.039
we pursue into long standing policies are
not going to come. Department of Justice

460
00:40:40.039 --> 00:40:44.840
has already told us you guys weren't
wearing cameras. I'm just asking why I

461
00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:49.000
for the cameras. I'm our body
weren't camera policy. I can talk about

462
00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:52.199
that even I think I can answer
the question without talking about talking about some

463
00:40:52.280 --> 00:40:55.480
things relative to the investigation, but
not others. We want all the answers

464
00:40:55.519 --> 00:40:59.760
to what's going on here. I
will tell you with respect to the body

465
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:04.119
work and camera policy. The Department
of Justice announced that policy when it was

466
00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:08.519
announced, as we have communicated to
your staff and you, it was announced

467
00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:14.679
that it would be phased implementation.
Atf is implementing that policy. We've implemented

468
00:41:14.679 --> 00:41:19.079
it in just under a third of
our field divisions. We have not received

469
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:22.519
three separate requests for program funding from
Congress to do so, but we are

470
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:28.599
still doing it. I watched a
hearing a couple of weeks ago officers did

471
00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:31.599
the Little Rock police officers who accompanied
you on this raid? Did they wear

472
00:41:32.519 --> 00:41:39.039
body cams? Again, not commenting
on this specific case, but in general,

473
00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:46.519
the Department of Justice written policy allows
local law enforcement on these types of

474
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:55.079
operations short term operations to follow their
own guidelines and policies if they wish in

475
00:41:55.239 --> 00:41:59.679
bodywarn cameras. And what I wanted
to say is the policy was to wear

476
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:02.199
weren't wearing them that day. We
want to know why did you tell them

477
00:42:02.199 --> 00:42:12.039
not to wear them? Mister chairman. Again, it is simply unfair at

478
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:15.679
this point, while there's a pending
investigation, that's a simple question. We

479
00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:17.840
just want to know why they weren't
following the rules. Their rules say where

480
00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:22.800
body cameras? Your rules say where
body cameras? You weren't wearing body cameras.

481
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:24.199
I go back to my original question, what were you trying to We

482
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:27.760
saw the video where you walked up, you put the tape on the doorbell.

483
00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:30.079
We know there were no lights to
the foyer, and we have missus

484
00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:32.079
Malinowski here who can testify to that. And we know you weren't wearing body

485
00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:37.559
cameras. What were hiding again,
mister chairman, We're not hiding anything.

486
00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:44.079
And with respect to the bidy war
camera policy, the people there, why

487
00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:49.639
on twelve Why on the twelfth did
you not go and search the home.

488
00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:52.239
You were all circled up ready to
go, but a week before, on

489
00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:55.519
the twelfth of March, you don't
go. You go in the nineteenth why'd

490
00:42:55.519 --> 00:43:01.480
you decide not to go on the
twelfth? Chair? Uh? These operations

491
00:43:01.719 --> 00:43:07.800
and by the way, we do
about eleven thousand operations each year, they're

492
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:13.039
very dangerous operations. ATIP doesn't do
anything that is not dangerous. Well it's

493
00:43:13.079 --> 00:43:16.079
not quite true, but many of
them are very, very dangerous. And

494
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:21.519
those operations are handled by people with
decades of law enforcement experience. They planned

495
00:43:21.559 --> 00:43:25.679
them. Look at you got him. This is little uniquet. You got

496
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:29.880
a citizen, the highest paid official
in the municipal government, Little Rock,

497
00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:32.800
Arkansas, making two hundred and sixty
thousand dollars a year running the airport.

498
00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:38.360
No criminal background history, no,
no, nothing, and he's dead at

499
00:43:38.440 --> 00:43:43.519
a at a at a pre dawn
raid when it sure looks like you could

500
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:45.519
have served this search warn't when he
wasn't there, but you decided not to,

501
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:50.239
decided to wait till he was home
when you did it on March nineteenth,

502
00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:53.840
and as a result, mister Malinowski
is no longer with us. Well,

503
00:43:53.880 --> 00:44:00.880
first of all, let me just
say this, mister chairman. Any

504
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:06.880
time that there's a loss of life
that is that is a profound incident.

505
00:44:06.920 --> 00:44:09.880
And of course on behalf of just
myself, ATF and all law enforcement.

506
00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:15.079
We are very sorry when those things
happen. Also, an agent was shot

507
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:17.519
that day, and I'm sure you
are sorry that that occurred. Of course,

508
00:44:17.559 --> 00:44:21.480
all the more reason to follow the
no knock warrant, not to have

509
00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:23.480
a no knock warrant take place,
and follow the rules, mister Chairman,

510
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:31.320
As somebody who has worked with law
enforcement for decades, there's a great temptation

511
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:37.440
when a horrible incident happens to prejudge. Sometimes people even try to use it

512
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:42.320
to advance agendas. The cops who
are in the field and the families who

513
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:45.599
want the answers. And my time
is expired. It's important to note that

514
00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:52.559
there were some police from the City
of Little Rock there, Okay, wasn't

515
00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:59.000
just the ATF and those folks usually
have and I'm ninety nine percent sure the

516
00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:01.920
city of the Little Rock no different. They have a policy they have to

517
00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:06.519
have their body cameras on, and
all of them have body cameras. It's

518
00:45:06.559 --> 00:45:13.559
amazing how the ATF, with a
billion dollar budget doesn't, but the city

519
00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:16.960
of Little Rock or these smaller cities
throughout the country can afford body cameras.

520
00:45:17.559 --> 00:45:21.800
We'll get a little bit more into
that, but it's important to note that

521
00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:24.400
if they weren't wearing them, it
was because they were told to take them

522
00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:30.199
off. I think an investigation is
going to show that. But we'll continue

523
00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:37.320
on and Representative darryl Isa, who
is a Republican from California. He spoke

524
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:43.400
about the ATF's decision to conduct a
no nock rate, specifically on Brian Malinowski,

525
00:45:43.599 --> 00:45:47.119
and he brought up some interesting points. And here's that I recognize myself

526
00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:55.119
now, Director, you accused the
dead men of a crime of illegally selling

527
00:45:55.119 --> 00:46:00.159
in the back seat a weapon,
and would I hear that correctly? Respectfully,

528
00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:04.920
what I did was talked about the
public search warrant, Affidavid, that

529
00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:09.199
was and proved understand. But you're
standing by your search warrant. You're standing

530
00:46:09.239 --> 00:46:14.360
by the fact that in the search
warrant you're alleging that he had committed a

531
00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:17.280
crime. Is that correct I,
Chairman, Respectfully, I was making the

532
00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:23.400
point that you're not being respectful answer
the question. The question is did you

533
00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:30.000
allege that he had committed a felony, that a crime in your affidavit.

534
00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:35.039
The judge did find that. Okay, well, I'll take that as the

535
00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:37.679
judge found it because you alleged it. So you alleged a crime, but

536
00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:43.719
you didn't seek to arrest him.
Did you do you have an arrest warrant

537
00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:49.280
for mister Melinofsky. My understanding that's
a yes or no. Director I understanding

538
00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:52.480
is it. My understanding is that
there was not an arrest warrant. I

539
00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:54.320
don't have the full investigative file,
but that is my understanding. You came

540
00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:58.840
here, you knew we were going
to ask you saw yesterday, and now

541
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:01.920
you're you're playing one of the games
that the Chairman and I didn't like during

542
00:47:01.960 --> 00:47:06.320
Fast and Furious. We don't like
it now if you want to be back

543
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:09.840
here again, because you can't seem
to know what you should know, what

544
00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:17.840
Missus Melanowski deserves to know. If
some group of ten car loads of people

545
00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:23.360
showed up and kicked in a door
in the dark of night, and somebody

546
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:28.440
came and shot at them, we
wouldn't be talking about somebody getting shot in

547
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:35.320
the toe. We'd be talking exclusively
about a planned murder of somebody who may

548
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:37.519
or may not be armed, but
who had every right to have weapons in

549
00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:42.960
their home and expectation they had weapons
in their home, and expectation that they

550
00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:46.199
might use it. All of that
you don't have to be atf to know.

551
00:47:46.760 --> 00:47:52.960
So let's go back on track here
again. If you had a belief

552
00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:59.800
that he had committed a crime,
and if your intent was to arrest him,

553
00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:07.320
then that would explain why a week
earlier you've called off an already authorized

554
00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:09.559
search because you were only going to
search for the weapons. You weren't going

555
00:48:09.639 --> 00:48:17.480
to search for him. Isn't that
correct, respectfully, mister Chairman, I

556
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:22.440
am not able and will not It's
not fair to do this during the pendency

557
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:28.320
of a criminal investigation. Look,
it's always I'm sorry, but DJ and

558
00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:32.000
you guys, it's always you can
go on forever. Hunter Biden's over.

559
00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:37.079
Why didn't you do a no knock
on him at his home with the Vice

560
00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:39.480
president? To be clear, this
isn't our investigation. We and the Little

561
00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:45.840
Rock police asked an outside investigation be
conducted by the Arkansas State Police. It's

562
00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:52.079
their investigation, and I you that, and I hope they appropriately find that,

563
00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:59.599
in spite of qualified immunity, that
you blew it badly enough that in

564
00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:04.920
fact, criminal charges should be considered. I hope they see whatever the truth

565
00:49:04.960 --> 00:49:09.360
is What is the penalty for the
crime alleged on the Alpha David for selling

566
00:49:09.559 --> 00:49:14.480
a weapon not as a licensed dealer. What's a penalty? Oh, my

567
00:49:14.559 --> 00:49:17.920
lord, mister chairman, I believe
it's a ten year felony. And there

568
00:49:17.960 --> 00:49:20.960
are two different crimes. This might
be a five year and a ten year

569
00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:22.760
felony. Okay. I want to
get back to you to make sure that

570
00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:27.079
there's a series of statutes that run
all in a row there. I want

571
00:49:27.079 --> 00:49:30.360
to make sure I'm not sing up
the statue of years or it's ten years.

572
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:36.000
It's not a death penalty. Is
that correct? There is not a

573
00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:40.280
death penalty for that statue, noment
Okay. So mister Melanowski was not in

574
00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:45.280
any danger or being executed for what
he is alleged to have done, and

575
00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:52.239
no longer can defend himself because he's
dead. But he was killed doing what

576
00:49:52.360 --> 00:49:57.800
any normal citizen does when people enter
their home in the dark of night and

577
00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:04.119
they don't know who they are.
If he had body cameras, maybe maybe

578
00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:09.360
missus Melanowski didn't hear right. Maybe
you said police and identified yourself. Maybe

579
00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:13.960
he said I don't care, and
maybe he fired the shots. I don't

580
00:50:13.960 --> 00:50:19.280
believe that and I don't think you
do either. I believe he had every

581
00:50:19.480 --> 00:50:24.880
real belief that he was defending his
wife and family. He fired warning shots,

582
00:50:25.159 --> 00:50:30.639
a ricochet hit a police officer or
an ATF agent, and you killed

583
00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:37.360
him. Those are the facts.
I have been investigating ATF for many years,

584
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:43.599
and ATF agents have rightfully so,
and you know, with great preparation,

585
00:50:43.719 --> 00:50:47.000
I'm sure, come forth and been
our whistleblowers, and we've consistently seen

586
00:50:47.039 --> 00:50:52.320
there are two ATFS, the one
we need and want and deserve, and

587
00:50:52.360 --> 00:50:58.199
the one that plays fast and loose
like ten cars, going in deliberately with

588
00:50:58.599 --> 00:51:01.639
a warrant that did not entire and
arrest when in fact, if you wanted

589
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:05.880
to arrest him, it would have
been reasonable to arrest him at work and

590
00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:08.679
simultaneously go into his home. If
you had done that, he'd be alive

591
00:51:08.719 --> 00:51:13.880
today, and we'd be talking about
other things, including whether you acted legally.

592
00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:17.480
Without I yield back all of this
that I'm playing you right now.

593
00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:25.039
All of these folks in the Senate
are bringing up some really good points.

594
00:51:25.239 --> 00:51:31.360
And I thought that Matt Gates,
a Republican from Florida, really put Stephen

595
00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:39.199
Dedelbock in a corner with the utter
confusion on how they classified gun sellers versus

596
00:51:39.280 --> 00:51:47.599
hobbyist. So here's that exchange between
ATF Director Stephen Dedelboch and Representative Matt Gates

597
00:51:49.079 --> 00:51:54.519
during that House Judiciary Committee meeting.
Gentlemen from Florida's recognizing thank you, mister

598
00:51:54.559 --> 00:52:00.159
Chairman. So the ATF has a
final rule. I think the comments and

599
00:52:00.199 --> 00:52:04.960
the rule itself accumulated to about four
and sixty six pages that define who is

600
00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:10.039
engaged in the business of firearms dealing? So how many firearms does someone have

601
00:52:10.119 --> 00:52:15.320
to sell to be engaged in the
business of firearm dealing? Congressman, As

602
00:52:15.320 --> 00:52:22.199
you know, that matter is being
litigated in several courts, So sticking to

603
00:52:22.239 --> 00:52:27.400
what's already in the public record,
the rule itself is sixteen pages, skipping

604
00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:30.800
lines, and there's about, as
you say, over four hundred pages of

605
00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:38.360
explanation. And so there are factors
that are conduct based, not numerical based,

606
00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:44.519
but conduct based. Also, we
received many comments. One of the

607
00:52:44.519 --> 00:52:51.320
comments that we received was from I
think Senator Cornyan who expressed a view that

608
00:52:51.519 --> 00:52:53.800
there was no numerical threshold. Others
had a different view. Ye in the

609
00:52:53.840 --> 00:52:58.199
House Judiciary Committee, we probably won't
look to Senator Corden as the oracle of

610
00:52:58.239 --> 00:53:01.159
all things gun rights. But you
know as to the so you're saying there

611
00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:06.519
really is no number. I'm saying
that Congress our job. Our job is

612
00:53:06.519 --> 00:53:10.599
to implement the statute that Congress rights
Ye a regular person for a regular person

613
00:53:10.960 --> 00:53:15.199
that one form or another acquires guns, and they're trying to figure out how

614
00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:19.760
many of these guns do I sell
before I have to register as a dealer.

615
00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:22.199
What you're saying is there is no
bright line there. I'm saying that

616
00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:27.920
there is now more information than ever
in the form of that role for specific

617
00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:31.920
conduct base I think I think just
for a regular person, more information than

618
00:53:31.960 --> 00:53:37.360
ever is probably less helpful than if
you sell three guns, you're not a

619
00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:39.360
dealer, and if you sell four
guns then you are a dealer. Right.

620
00:53:39.719 --> 00:53:45.000
And this rule that you guys have
drafted, it's currently enjoined. Right,

621
00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:50.159
it has no effect. There is
uh. There are three cases that

622
00:53:50.239 --> 00:53:52.039
I know of, maybe more going
on now. One of the judges has

623
00:53:52.119 --> 00:53:59.119
issued equitable relief. So in Texas, a judge has stopped the implementation of

624
00:53:59.119 --> 00:54:04.880
this law for three reasons. One
is that there's no minimum requirement, and

625
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:09.840
the court is found this court in
Texas that you aren't just giving effect in

626
00:54:09.880 --> 00:54:16.199
life to Congress's statutes. You've in
fact exceeded your authority because Congress would have

627
00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:22.480
never allowed some sort of sliding scale
where sixteen pages of single space whatever determines

628
00:54:22.519 --> 00:54:25.920
whether or not you're a firearm dealer, not how many guns you sell.

629
00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:31.119
There's a second reason that court in
Texas said that this would not have effect,

630
00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:37.679
and it's that actual profit is not
a requirement of the statute, only

631
00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:43.679
the predominant intent for profit. How
do you understand that ruling? Again,

632
00:54:44.199 --> 00:54:47.199
that's in litigation. The Department of
Justices positions on each and every one of

633
00:54:47.199 --> 00:54:52.079
these matters is public. It is
laid out in many, many pages of

634
00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:55.719
briefing, and so would I would
ask people to look at our briefs that

635
00:54:55.760 --> 00:55:00.199
we filed in the court, and
I would commend your attemp. But someone

636
00:55:00.320 --> 00:55:01.360
is just trying to figure out whether
or not they have to get a federal

637
00:55:01.440 --> 00:55:07.480
license or be subject to your guys
breaking their doors down and potentially killing them.

638
00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:10.400
You would think that you'd want that
to be easily understandable. And here,

639
00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:15.960
even if someone isn't turning a profit, but they might want to turn

640
00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:19.320
a profit, they could be subject
to this regulation, and the court found

641
00:55:19.320 --> 00:55:23.320
that troubling. And then the third
reason the court identified is that your rule

642
00:55:24.800 --> 00:55:32.480
doesn't just give meaning to Congress's statute, but that quote arbitrarily evisceraates the safe

643
00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:37.000
harbor for provision. So there's a
safe harbor for provision of this law that

644
00:55:37.039 --> 00:55:43.159
says if you're just engaged in the
occasional sale or exchange or purchase of a

645
00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:49.519
firearm for a personal collection or a
hobby that this wouldn't this regulatory structure wouldn't

646
00:55:49.519 --> 00:55:52.920
affect you. But what the court
is saying here in blocking your rule is

647
00:55:52.960 --> 00:56:00.159
that you have a viscerated the safe
harbor that exists for the hobbyist. Do

648
00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:04.559
you have a reaction to that ruling? Again, yes, our position is

649
00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:08.119
not that, but it's under a
litigation we have filed extended. We here

650
00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:10.800
we are make your argument. I
mean, they're sitting here in court trying

651
00:56:10.800 --> 00:56:15.440
to figure out what Congress means.
What we're saying is there should definitely be

652
00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:19.320
a bright line in terms of guns. You shouldn't have to have this pondering

653
00:56:19.400 --> 00:56:22.679
question about profit motive, and you
shouldn't eviscerate the safe harbor that's what we're

654
00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:27.119
saying. So what's your argument as
to why the safe harbor should be eviscerated.

655
00:56:29.239 --> 00:56:32.760
Our argument is to look to the
statute that Congress wrote. The statute

656
00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:36.639
that Congress wrote, And I just
want to make clear that people understand this.

657
00:56:37.199 --> 00:56:40.280
There was an earlier comment about the
word livelihood. That's not in the

658
00:56:40.360 --> 00:56:44.360
law anymore. That Congress wrote.
Congress took that out of the law.

659
00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:49.719
It doesn't exist anymore. So we
start with the statue. That's where things

660
00:56:49.800 --> 00:56:52.480
always begin and end. I know
you started with the statue, but what

661
00:56:52.519 --> 00:56:54.760
this court is saying is that you
have exceeded the statute. You've done it

662
00:56:54.760 --> 00:56:58.960
in a way that eviscerates the safe
harbor, that blurs the lines, and

663
00:56:58.960 --> 00:57:01.400
that creates no decle way for people
to comply with the law. And the

664
00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:05.000
reason I think you guys are doing
that is you want to make it more

665
00:57:05.039 --> 00:57:09.639
difficult for people to engage in the
legal, lawful, and constitutionally contemplated manner

666
00:57:09.719 --> 00:57:14.599
to transfer firearms. And you're trying
to criminalize an entire enterprise. And that's

667
00:57:14.599 --> 00:57:16.599
why you see it's trying to curtail
some of your funding and your authorities.

668
00:57:16.960 --> 00:57:20.719
I see my times expired, this
chairman, I you'll think, I mean,

669
00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:24.880
I think that sums up the confusion
right there, and something needs to

670
00:57:24.920 --> 00:57:31.840
be done about that. And another
thing that came up during these hearings was

671
00:57:31.960 --> 00:57:37.880
discussion on the pistol brace. And
just real quick, a pistol brace is

672
00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:42.119
a brace that goes up around the
elbow. It attaches to the butt of

673
00:57:42.159 --> 00:57:49.159
a pistol and it's designed to make
the pistol stable so that you can aim

674
00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:53.480
it better and it also takes some
of that recoil away. Now, why

675
00:57:53.599 --> 00:57:58.440
was this invented. It was actually
invented back in I think it was twenty

676
00:57:58.480 --> 00:58:02.599
fifteen for veterans, injured veterans who
like to go and shoot, but they

677
00:58:02.599 --> 00:58:09.559
were injured in war and maybe they
didn't have use of their arm like they

678
00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:15.079
used to from bullets, maybe hitting
nerves, things like that. So this

679
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:20.719
guy invented a pistol brace to help
with that. And as of May thirty

680
00:58:20.800 --> 00:58:24.119
first, if you own this pistol
brace, now it's completely legal up until

681
00:58:24.239 --> 00:58:28.519
May thirty first, of twenty twenty
four. As of May thirty first,

682
00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:31.800
just prior to this audio dropping,
if you own a pistol brace, you're

683
00:58:31.880 --> 00:58:37.079
legal. But they just changed it. So now you're a felon if you

684
00:58:37.119 --> 00:58:40.760
own a pistol brace and it's connected
to your gun. Representative Kelly Armstrong of

685
00:58:40.920 --> 00:58:47.000
North Dakota covers this in this next
clip, and the reason that I'm referencing

686
00:58:47.079 --> 00:58:53.559
it is it is an example here
where the ATF may be overreaching with citizens

687
00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:58.920
of the United States, and that's
right here. You'll deal back. Jennaen

688
00:58:58.920 --> 00:59:02.239
from North Dakota's recognized we're conflating two
issues here. A man is dead and

689
00:59:02.360 --> 00:59:07.679
an officer was shy, not because
of rank and file law enforcement doing their

690
00:59:07.719 --> 00:59:12.400
job, but because somebody made a
leadership decision in order to execute a warrant

691
00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:17.280
in the most dangerous way possible given
the circumstances of that case. And we

692
00:59:17.320 --> 00:59:22.079
could sell six AM and standard operating
procedure. You can do that everywhere else.

693
00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:25.880
I've represented three officers and officers involved
shootings. I spent ten years dealing

694
00:59:25.920 --> 00:59:30.440
with search warrants. I know the
facts of this case. I know where

695
00:59:30.440 --> 00:59:32.440
the guy worked, I know that
he was surveilled, and I know that

696
00:59:32.519 --> 00:59:37.719
they chose to implement a warrant in
a way that absolutely maximized the risk of

697
00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:40.559
harm both to the person being served
the warrant on and to the officers serving

698
00:59:40.559 --> 00:59:43.719
the warrant. But I'm going to
move on. I'm going to move on

699
00:59:43.760 --> 00:59:46.719
to something else quick. Federal gun
charges are what we call strict liability crimes.

700
00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:50.199
Right, If you have a gun
and you're a prohibited person, that's

701
00:59:50.239 --> 00:59:52.519
the crime. There doesn't need to
be intent. There doesn't need to be

702
00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:54.719
any of those things. Right.
I disagree. So if you're a felon

703
00:59:54.800 --> 00:59:59.079
in possession of a firearm, you
can intent. You can say I didn't

704
00:59:59.079 --> 01:00:02.440
know I was a felon. No, but there's an intent requirement in Congress's

705
01:00:02.440 --> 01:00:06.760
statute. You can read nine twenty
two G. One. It's in the

706
01:00:06.800 --> 01:00:12.679
statute. Congressman, you said earlier
that ATF's responsibility is to implement the laws

707
01:00:12.679 --> 01:00:16.320
that Congress passes. Right, Correct, When did the US House pass a

708
01:00:16.440 --> 01:00:22.159
rule classifying a pistol brace as a
short barreled rifle? That rule making is

709
01:00:22.159 --> 01:00:30.880
based upon the National nineteen CORESS pass
a law they didn't nineteen. In nineteen

710
01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:35.039
thirty four, Congress passed the National
Firearms Act, which said that short barreled

711
01:00:35.119 --> 01:00:39.840
rifles were unusually dangerous. I'm not
asking you about short barreled rifles. I

712
01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:45.039
know what short barreled rifles are qualified
as in the National Firearms Act. When

713
01:00:45.039 --> 01:00:47.760
did Congress pass a law saying pistol
brace is qualified. When did Congress pass

714
01:00:47.840 --> 01:00:53.159
Congress passed that they are covered by
the national pass the law? When did

715
01:00:53.159 --> 01:00:57.440
the President sign the law? He
didn't. The first pistol brace was sold

716
01:00:57.480 --> 01:01:00.000
in twenty twelve, a guy walked
into a gun store, bought it legally,

717
01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:04.440
walked out of the gun store with
the pistol brace, with the pistol

718
01:01:04.440 --> 01:01:07.199
brace rifle. No need for two
hundred dollars, No needed for a stamp.

719
01:01:07.199 --> 01:01:09.079
So you're saying, if there's a
new brand of gun that didn't exist

720
01:01:09.079 --> 01:01:12.960
in nineteen sixty eight, that the
Gun Control Act doesn't apply to it.

721
01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:15.920
I'm saying, in twenty twelve,
a guy in Dickinson, North Dakota,

722
01:01:16.039 --> 01:01:21.360
walked into a firearms store and bought
a gun legally correct with a pistol brace.

723
01:01:21.440 --> 01:01:22.880
Didn't need to do a stamp,
didn't need to do a two hundred

724
01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:29.199
dollars didn't need to do a two
hundred dollars registration. Again, we look

725
01:01:29.239 --> 01:01:31.800
at I think say, no,
this is a factual question. The first

726
01:01:31.840 --> 01:01:37.039
pistol brace was sold in twenty twelve, Did the person who purchased it need

727
01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:40.599
a stamp? And did he need
did he need the federal government's permission to

728
01:01:40.599 --> 01:01:45.920
buy that gun? The two thousand
perspectfully, the twenty twelve, the thing

729
01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:50.679
that has been talked about in this
committee previously was never brought to market.

730
01:01:51.559 --> 01:01:55.320
Okay, so twenty fifteen. It
would depend upon the actual design of the

731
01:01:55.440 --> 01:02:00.480
individual item. There were numerous different
items being manufactured. You spend twenty years

732
01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:05.280
as a prosecutor, twenty years as
a prosecutor. You know the answers to

733
01:02:05.320 --> 01:02:07.960
these questions. I done asking them. I'm just going to go with numbers.

734
01:02:07.239 --> 01:02:14.440
From twenty twelve until two thousand and
twenty three, the ATF estimates that

735
01:02:14.480 --> 01:02:19.239
there are three to three to seven
million pistol braces sold on the civilian market,

736
01:02:19.599 --> 01:02:22.760
not requiring the two hundred dollars stamp
from the NFA for a short barreled

737
01:02:22.840 --> 01:02:29.920
rifle. Now what Congressional Research Service
says there are ten to forty million of

738
01:02:29.960 --> 01:02:34.920
those those things purchased in the same
period of time. Manufacturer sales estimate are

739
01:02:34.960 --> 01:02:40.559
significantly higher than the ATFS estimate to
include, and those estimates exclude twenty twenty

740
01:02:40.559 --> 01:02:45.320
twenty twenty one. In twenty twenty
two, now the Deputy Chief of the

741
01:02:45.320 --> 01:02:51.559
ATF has stated that prior to June
one, twenty twenty three, two hundred

742
01:02:51.599 --> 01:02:57.800
and fifty five thousand, one hundred
and sixty two registrations on retroactive purchases were

743
01:02:57.840 --> 01:03:00.280
received by the ATF. Does that
sound accurate? I don't know who that

744
01:03:00.400 --> 01:03:04.079
person they're going to have a title
like that, but the number sounds like

745
01:03:04.119 --> 01:03:08.280
the number of people that during a
certain period of time sought registration. The

746
01:03:08.360 --> 01:03:12.239
number does sound familiar, but I
don't know the quote there. If I

747
01:03:12.239 --> 01:03:16.000
got a rancher in southwest North Dakota
who's hunting snow geese to a Federal wildlife

748
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:20.920
refuge and a US four in,
a US agent comes out. He purchased

749
01:03:20.920 --> 01:03:24.519
that rifle legally in twenty fifteen,
and he's out shooting shooting geese with the

750
01:03:24.519 --> 01:03:29.079
shotgun. US Fish and Wildlife comes
to his car and sees a gun in

751
01:03:29.119 --> 01:03:32.079
there with a pistol brace. What's
the penalty for him, now he bought

752
01:03:32.079 --> 01:03:37.920
the gun legally twenty fifteen. Well, again, it's five that that cares

753
01:03:37.000 --> 01:03:39.800
in in max for two hundred and
fifty thousand dollars five. You talk about

754
01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:45.320
costs, you talk about budget cuts. So let's just assume the low end

755
01:03:45.440 --> 01:03:50.760
number of the ATF numbers on three
to seven million read three million license three

756
01:03:50.800 --> 01:03:55.079
million guns that were purchased legally without
any extra requirement. The ATF has gotten

757
01:03:55.079 --> 01:04:01.239
two hundred and fifty five thousands of
those registered. You were roughly saying two

758
01:04:01.320 --> 01:04:06.920
point seven million people are now felons
in possession of firearms for something they purchased

759
01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:12.599
legally. I respectfully disagree with a
lot of the characterizations in your question.

760
01:04:12.719 --> 01:04:17.239
The last administration Attorney General bar issued
guidance on this before we even before ATF

761
01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:23.920
even got to this, people were
unnoticed for years and years and years that

762
01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:27.880
you can't take something and break it
into two and then put it together and

763
01:04:27.920 --> 01:04:30.880
treat it differently than the person who
buys it in one piece. They bought

764
01:04:30.880 --> 01:04:33.719
a gun legally, and you guys
retroaight actively made it illegal in a different

765
01:04:33.760 --> 01:04:39.239
qualification. Respectfully, I disagree that
is not what the facts reflect. The

766
01:04:39.280 --> 01:04:45.280
gentleman, you've heard all those clips, You've heard the story. Do I

767
01:04:45.320 --> 01:04:50.719
think that the ATF had valid probable
cause and that that warrant for his vehicle

768
01:04:50.760 --> 01:04:55.719
and his home that were signed.
Do I think that those were valid and

769
01:04:55.719 --> 01:05:00.559
that they should have been signed.
Yes, I personally think that Malanowski was

770
01:05:00.679 --> 01:05:05.679
breaking the law. I do think
that he was dealing in guns, but

771
01:05:05.760 --> 01:05:11.920
it kind of stops there. I
don't think that Malanowski had any ill intent.

772
01:05:13.039 --> 01:05:20.159
I don't think that Malanowski was intentionally
selling these to felons. I don't

773
01:05:20.360 --> 01:05:24.639
think any of that. I think
this is a guy who loved guns,

774
01:05:24.719 --> 01:05:29.559
had a hobby, and was just
kind of skating that gray line and he

775
01:05:29.639 --> 01:05:33.800
stepped over into the black at some
point. That being said, the response

776
01:05:34.039 --> 01:05:39.960
is what I have issues with.
My questions were why didn't they serve that

777
01:05:40.039 --> 01:05:45.039
search warrant the week prior? My
personal feeling is they wanted to arrest him.

778
01:05:45.480 --> 01:05:49.519
They knew that the person doesn't have
to be home, and in order

779
01:05:49.559 --> 01:05:55.559
to serve that search warrant they could
have done it. Then no one so

780
01:05:55.760 --> 01:06:00.000
far, and I watched that entire
hearing is answered why not why didn't they

781
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:04.280
are serve it at that time?
But mister common sense does, and mister

782
01:06:04.320 --> 01:06:13.519
common sense tells me that the true
intent was for them to arrest Malanowski when

783
01:06:13.519 --> 01:06:17.320
they served the search warrant, but
they had to search the house first to

784
01:06:17.440 --> 01:06:24.480
find enough probable cause to arrest him, and they were confident they would find

785
01:06:24.519 --> 01:06:27.760
it there, and I think they
wanted to scare the shit out of him.

786
01:06:27.920 --> 01:06:31.719
The second issue the body warned cameras. Even local police weren't wearing them,

787
01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:39.840
y'all. That proves to me the
ATF's intent to hide something. Maybe

788
01:06:39.880 --> 01:06:45.079
your agents didn't have body cameras,
but the local police do. And if

789
01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:48.320
you told them to take them off, and that's the only reason they would

790
01:06:48.320 --> 01:06:54.360
have been off, it's because they
were trying to hide something. And putting

791
01:06:54.400 --> 01:06:58.880
tape on that doorbell camera to serve
the search warrant not an arrest warrant.

792
01:06:59.280 --> 01:07:01.480
If you're serving a rest warrant,
I get it, you don't want that

793
01:07:01.559 --> 01:07:04.920
person on the inside to be seeing
your movements on the outside. But come

794
01:07:04.960 --> 01:07:08.880
on, we've talked about this the
whole time. Use your common sense.

795
01:07:08.920 --> 01:07:12.559
This guy was not a danger and
you knew it. Putting tape on that

796
01:07:12.639 --> 01:07:16.960
doorbell camera trying to hide I had
a problem with them serving the no knock

797
01:07:17.000 --> 01:07:20.280
warrant, and I've kind of discussed
that earlier, But not only did they

798
01:07:20.639 --> 01:07:25.519
serve a no knock warrant on a
search warrant and not an arrest warrant.

799
01:07:25.559 --> 01:07:30.280
They didn't announce themselves entering his home. You know atf come out with their

800
01:07:30.320 --> 01:07:35.280
hands up. They didn't even do
that. This is my biggest issue out

801
01:07:35.360 --> 01:07:41.400
of this whole case. They knew
full well that this guy would not be

802
01:07:41.440 --> 01:07:44.719
a danger. He was one of
the most well known people in a little

803
01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:48.320
rock, very wealthy, had way
too much to lose to just not comply.

804
01:07:48.920 --> 01:07:55.960
His wife was there for Christ's sake. That was done to instill fear,

805
01:07:56.599 --> 01:08:01.360
plain and simple. Then after all
this, you've already shot this woman's

806
01:08:01.480 --> 01:08:08.400
husband and eventually it killed him.
They keep his wife in a police car

807
01:08:08.519 --> 01:08:12.360
for four hours, won't even answer
her questions as to how her husband is

808
01:08:12.480 --> 01:08:18.920
doing while they searched the house.
Sorry pathetic. And they sent ten unmarked

809
01:08:19.159 --> 01:08:27.800
police car vehicles anyway, and agents
and riot gear to his home. Some

810
01:08:28.119 --> 01:08:32.520
estimated between forty and fifty agents.
That's a great use of my money,

811
01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:42.359
great use all those guys being paid
for. Brian Malinowski, You're not,

812
01:08:43.079 --> 01:08:46.840
you know, picking up Pablo Escobar. I hope some heads roll on this

813
01:08:47.439 --> 01:08:50.479
because they need to. A man
is dead. That didn't have to be

814
01:08:50.640 --> 01:08:55.600
dead. And as I said,
it could have been any one of us.

815
01:08:56.119 --> 01:08:59.840
If that ever happens in my house, you come bust through my door

816
01:09:00.239 --> 01:09:05.119
and you don't announce yourself, I'm
shooting and I might be dead after how

817
01:09:05.119 --> 01:09:10.039
many out there that's listening right now
can say they're not doing the same thing

818
01:09:10.439 --> 01:09:14.159
that could have happened to any one
of us. He didn't know who was

819
01:09:14.159 --> 01:09:16.239
busting in his door, He didn't
know who those figures were in the hallway.

820
01:09:16.319 --> 01:09:38.359
They never announced themselves. As atf
everybody's shooting right. Thank you so

821
01:09:38.439 --> 01:09:45.600
much for listening to today's episode and
listening to every episode that we drop on

822
01:09:45.760 --> 01:09:53.039
Exposed. We have some great episodes
coming up for you. I may drop

823
01:09:53.159 --> 01:09:58.560
another episode in just a couple of
days because our boy Pete Diddy is in

824
01:09:58.640 --> 01:10:01.560
trouble again. I don't know if
if those parts will ever end with Diddy.

825
01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:05.760
Every time I think I put him
away for a little while, something

826
01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:11.119
else happens, and something else indeed
has happened. And until next time,

827
01:10:11.359 --> 01:10:15.239
I'm Jim Chapman, your host of
Exposed, Scandalous Files of the Elite.

828
01:10:15.439 --> 01:10:16.079
Much love,