Feb. 27, 2025

"Murdaugh" Episode Twenty Two | "The Stand Concludes"

"Murdaugh" Episode Twenty Two | "The Stand Concludes"

In this episode of *Exposed Scandalous Files of the Elite*, Jim continues the “Murdaugh” series with a deep dive into Alex Murdaugh’s final day on the stand, focusing on his testimony and the critical moment when video evidence places him at the scene...

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Season 1

In this episode of *Exposed Scandalous Files of the Elite*, Jim continues the “Murdaugh” series with a deep dive into Alex Murdaugh’s final day on the stand, focusing on his testimony and the critical moment when video evidence places him at the scene of the murders of Paul and Maggie Murdaugh.

#murdaugh #AlexMurdaugh #exposed #podcast #trial #creightonwaters

Timestamps
02:48 Key Evidence
18:15 The Timeline of Events
29:11 Phone Calls and Alibis
41:34 The Almeda Visit
56:01 The 911 Call and Aftermath
1:15:48 The Investigation Unfolds
1:48:42 The Distrust of SLED
2:30:56 The Murdoch Family Dynamics
2:41:07 The Roadside Shooting Incident
2:50:37 Decimation by Cross-Examination

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WEBVTT

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Hey everyone, and welcome back to Exposed Scandalous Files of

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the Elite. I'm your host, Jim Chapman, and we are

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back with another mrdall series, this twenty second episode, and

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this is going to be the lengthiest podcast today. I'm

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wrapping up Alex Mardaugh's testimony with this episode. So while

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this episode is lengthy at some three plus hours, it's

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absolutely partnent that you hear it. And as has been

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the practice with all the episodes I've done in this

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mart All series, at certain points during the testimony I'll

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break in and discuss those points throughout the podcast. Now

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let's get into it. And the last time that we

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left you, Alec was on that stand in Creighton Water

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was diving in on the biggest lie of all, the

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fact that Alex lied to the police regarding being at

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those kennels. He played the video in which Elick was

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in the background of a snapchat his son Paul was

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taking and Alex's voice very distinct fussing at one of

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the dogs over having a chicken in his mouth. So

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we're gonna pick up at that point in the testimony,

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and in this first clip you're gonna hear prosecutor Waters

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further questioning the fact that he lied about being at

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those kennels, which remember, this is probably the biggest key

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in the case because it places him at that murder

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scene just prior to his son and wife being killed.

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Waters also hammers down on his claim of movement just

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after discovering Paul and Maggie tragically murdered. And it is

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a bat of we. And here's that first club.

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When you picked up that chicken, was there any blood

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on it?

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I don't believe, sir.

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Did you wash your hands or all at that.

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Point in time. I don't believe that I did.

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And when you say you were there, you said Maggie

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was near nearby you Is that correct?

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Right?

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Was she messing with the hose at all.

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At that time? No, she was not.

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Did she mess it with it the entire time that

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you were there, according to your new facts today.

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While I was there, she did not touched she. She

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was not fooling with a hose at all.

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All right, I'm gonna I'm.

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Gonna put up on the screen stakes five nineteen, which

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is the condensed timeline. If I could have a computer input, please,

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it's the condensed timeline. Mister Griffin.

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Gemini.

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All right, you see that out there? H mister Murdat, Yes, alright,

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I'm on page five. You see that uh sell challenge.

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There's something on my screen? Yeah, I do see that.

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Would you agree with me that it reflects no cell

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tower activity on your phone from six fifty tonight?

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Ow fo, I do agree with that.

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Let me ask you this one from Murdock. Did you

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take your phone with you down to the kennels? According

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to the new facts that you're testified to you yestrain today.

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I must not have. You must not have if this

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is accurate?

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No, SIRH is that typical for you?

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Sure?

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It is absolutely tell if and when I'm going now,

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it wouldn't be. It would be unusual if I was

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going out for any extended period of time, or if

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I was going.

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Even on the property.

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If I was going somewhere for an extended period of time,

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I would usually have my phone. But for me to

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go knowing that I'm going to the kennel and coming

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right back, that's not unusual at all. I mean, you've

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heard the testimony about the service out there. The service

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is terrible. You have to be in a particular spot

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and you have to find the spot.

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So the answer is, you don't know whether you took

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it down there.

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I believe that I probably did it based on this data.

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Based on this, but unlike the photographic memory about other things,

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you don't remember whether or not you had your phone

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on you.

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Mister Waters, I've never claimed to have a photographic memory,

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but I do not specifically remember if I had my

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phone that night. I do not dispute it based on

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these on this data, and that's not unusual for me.

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So it's like you don't remember, according to your new story,

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the last conversation you have with Maggie.

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No, I remember, I remember having my last conversation with Maggie.

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Looking at this screen, you have the map up there

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were on page six, and it shows you arriving back.

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It's Mozille at six forty two. You don't just few

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that now.

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As I cry, No, that's that's what this data appears

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to show.

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Look at the data. Moving on to page seven, you

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have Paul arriving about seven oh four. Is that correct?

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You don't have any reason to dispute that.

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Well, that's what it says.

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He arrives at forty one forty seven Mozelle Road. Which

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is the address of the shop. The house is forty

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one fifty seven. I believe that Paul actually got there

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a little bit before that, but I think that's approximately accurate.

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I think Paul got there a little bit closer to

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seven o'clock.

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You would agree, though, that's the earliest data point that

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reflects his presence in Mozilla.

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If that's what the records show.

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You don't dispute that.

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I don't dispute that that's if that's the earliest data point.

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But again, I believe he got there a little bit earlier,

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and I tried to look at these records to see

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if I could just if that could be refuted, and.

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I believe he got there a little closer to seven

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or a little bit before seven.

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Now that's a good point. You looked at these records

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a lot before you had your testimony Astrain today, didn't you,

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Muster Murdo.

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I've looked at these records other than the on Star

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records that just came when they were provided to me.

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Sure, I've looked at them.

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Right here, we have some steps on your phone, twenty

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nine steps, and then down at the bottom we have

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eighty nine steps. Is that consistent when you and Paul

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were together on the property.

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I mean sure, we would go to different locations on

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the property. Sometimes we would get out, sometimes we wouldn't.

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We get out and walk around.

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We look at.

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Stuff, We do things. For example, you saw me messing

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with the tree. There'd be other ones. We may get

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out and look at a feeder mey be other ones

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we get out and look at how signs.

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Where hogs are rooty. So it would be perfectly consistent

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with what Paupaul and I were doing that day.

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And eight oh five to.

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Eight o nine.

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Would you agree that that's the last steps recorded on

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your phone before nine oh two when you become a

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very busy beat.

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If that's what these records show, I see I took steps.

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It's record show I took steps between eight oh five

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and eight oh nine.

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Right, So would you concede then that you're at the

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house around eight oh nine.

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I would have thought so, yes, mkay.

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And you said Paul was already back at that point, No,

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I said just the opposite. When did he get there?

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Alright?

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You talking about when I left the shop and went

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to the house, when Maggie was there. Ye, No, As

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I said earlier, Paul and I were at the shop. Mmm,

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Maggie got home. I left Paul at the shop and

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I went to the house. And I think you were

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saying that I said, I met Paul at the house,

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and I said, correct.

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Paul was still down at the shop when you were

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at the house. Correct.

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When I first went to the house, Paul was still

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at the shop, I.

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Believe, alright. And was Maggie there when you arrived.

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At the house, Yes, I believe she.

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Was, alright.

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And eight oh nine is the last steps that you

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have on this phone before nine oh two.

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Correct, that's what the data shows.

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Looking now at page fifteen. I'm sorry, page fourteen. Your

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stuff that you say when you got the house at

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eight o nine and Paul is still out of the shop.

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But don't these records reflect that Paul is hanging with

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GPS dad at the house at eight oh eight.

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This record appears to show Paul at the house at

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eight oh eight.

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All right, So.

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Those records don't fat with your news story that you

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testified yesterday and today. Is that correct?

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No? I don't believe even right now, mister Watersa, that's right.

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I'm not saying. What you're doing is you're taking eight

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oh nine and saying.

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That I'm at the house, and I mean that may

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or may not be right. But what I'm saying is

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is that when Maggie came through, I left, and I

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believe that Paul stayed at the shop.

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Now, did Paul come right behind me? I'm not sure.

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But when I when I left him, I believed that

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when I left to go to the house, I believe

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that Pause stayed at the shop for a minute.

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When you got to the house, did you put your

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phone down?

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I'm sure I did.

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Did you put it in the car in the suburban?

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Did I put it in the suburban when you got

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back to the house.

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Did you put it in the suburban? Suburban parked out front?

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The suburban would have been part wherever I parked it,

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which is where I believe on the side.

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Okay, And did you put the phone your phone in the.

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Suburban at that time? No, I did not.

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Where'd you put it?

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I'm not sure where I put it?

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You're not sure about that either, Huh.

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No, I'm not sure. When I went into house, I'm

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not sure where I put my phone. I would think

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that I you know, I would think that I put

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it down somewhere probably by the couch.

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Didn't you testify yesterday when you were being asked by

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your lawyer about that pause at Almeda when you were

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living leaving and you had a very specific recollection of

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your phone had fallen down in the crevice and you

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had to pick it up, can get it out? You remember,

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testify unto that I do, But you don't remember what

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you did with your phone when you got back at

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this point, huh.

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I mean, those are two distinct different things. I'm coming

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in the house and I put my phone down. I

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don't have a routine.

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Spot that I put it in right on this corner

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or right there, you know, I would I would assume

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that when I went in the house, I.

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Put it somewhere, either on the table you go by,

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going to the going to the couch.

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I may have taken it to the bathroom when I

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take a shower.

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It may have taken me of a few minutes to

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go to the shower. So I can't tell you exactly

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where I put it.

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The story is an awful specific recommend recollection when you

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need it to try to make the new story that

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the jury's hearing and everyone's hearing yesterday and today with

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the data, correct, But you're awful fuzzy on far more

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important things, aren't you?

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Which which question here? I answered the first and first no,

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I don't believe that's convenient, and I disagree with your

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categorization of the description.

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All right, but you you remember the console story, but

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you don't remember where you put your phone, whether or

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not you took it down to the kennels, whether it

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was on the uh, you put it in the suburban.

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Don't remember any of that. But dad, going, you remember

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that console story, right?

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Well, I don't remember the console story, but you know

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in that suburban, and it's not the first time that

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00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:35.039
it happened. But when that phone got down there, you

239
00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:36.759
had to go to great efforts to get it out,

240
00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:38.840
and you couldn't just reach over there and get it out.

241
00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:42.600
All right.

242
00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:45.480
You say when you got to the house that Maggie

243
00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:50.440
was already there, Yes, okay, And we saw your last

244
00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:51.639
steps were in eight or nine.

245
00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:57.720
Well that's what you saw when this data recorded my

246
00:13:57.799 --> 00:14:03.240
last steps. But if you heard this testimony too, mister Waters,

247
00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:09.039
you know that's not a precise. That's not a precise, y'all.

248
00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:10.759
You heard the testimony, you know what it is.

249
00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:14.159
Well, how did you get back to the house remind us.

250
00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:17.519
From the shop. Yeah, I went in the white pickup truck.

251
00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:18.759
Went in the white pickup truck.

252
00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:19.720
Okay.

253
00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:22.279
And when you got into the house, where did you go?

254
00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:27.360
We've already discussed this. I took a shower.

255
00:14:27.879 --> 00:14:30.879
Whether I did things for a moment before I went

256
00:14:30.919 --> 00:14:34.039
to the shower, I'm sure I talked to Maggie because

257
00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:36.480
she'd been gone, and if she came through the kennel,

258
00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.960
which I believe she did, we only talked briefly, so

259
00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:42.440
I would have talked to her, but I would have

260
00:14:42.519 --> 00:14:43.720
quickly gone to take a shower.

261
00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:50.960
Okay. Going over the page sixteen, you would agree with

262
00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:57.000
me that the data reflects Maggie started logging steps and

263
00:14:57.080 --> 00:15:01.159
her phone just connecting from the Mercedes around eight seven, team, right.

264
00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:07.399
I agree at age seventeen her phone ends connection to

265
00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:08.960
her Mercedes.

266
00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:09.960
And starts logging steps.

267
00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:12.480
I don't see that, but I don't dispute it.

268
00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:14.840
All right, Well, you see the purple line talking about

269
00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:16.559
just connecting from the Mercedes.

270
00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:19.000
See, I see where you're talking about. So yeah, I

271
00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:21.799
see at ege seventeen her phone starts logging steps. I

272
00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:22.320
agree with that.

273
00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:26.120
Okay, So what you can see that that appears to

274
00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:26.960
be when she arrived.

275
00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:31.799
Uh No, I don't believe that's when she arrived. I

276
00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:32.360
believe that.

277
00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:38.120
I mean, it was very normal for Maggie when she's

278
00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:41.480
driving to jump out of the car, run inside, go

279
00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:44.879
to the bathroom, do things and either send me or

280
00:15:44.919 --> 00:15:47.600
Paul or go back or bust her, or go back

281
00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:51.919
to her car herself and unplurk her phone. So I mean,

282
00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:53.720
I agree that's when her phone's unplugged.

283
00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:55.519
But I believe that Maggie got to the house a

284
00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:58.519
little bit before that. That's the whole reason why Paul

285
00:15:58.519 --> 00:15:59.519
and I went to the house.

286
00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:04.759
Okay, But you're saying Paul arrived after Maggie. Is that

287
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:07.240
what you're saying got the house?

288
00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:13.679
I believe, So, yes, sir, that's what I recall. And

289
00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:18.080
Paul arrived at the house after I arrived at the house.

290
00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:23.759
I believe. And if Paul.

291
00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:27.000
Got to the house around about at the same time,

292
00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:35.279
he wasn't inside with Maggie and I.

293
00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:34.559
When I take it to the shower.

294
00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:37.960
So you say, if Paul got he wasn't inside with

295
00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:45.799
Maggie and you. Is that what you said? Mister Murdock,

296
00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:48.559
Is that what you said, sir? You said, if Paul

297
00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:50.639
got the house prior to that, he wasn't inside with you.

298
00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:51.759
And Maggie, is that what you said.

299
00:16:51.799 --> 00:16:55.080
I'm saying he was not inside when I went to

300
00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:55.840
get into the shower.

301
00:16:56.440 --> 00:17:02.480
Okay, right again, looking back at this down point eight

302
00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:04.440
a way, we see a little blue dock right there

303
00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:05.240
in the middle of the house.

304
00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:14.880
Do yeah, that's what these records show. And it also

305
00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:19.359
shows that circle that folks testify to what in the

306
00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:23.799
range of what it could be with him. So I mean,

307
00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:25.279
it clearly could.

308
00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:27.880
Leave of that circle. Look at what was right in

309
00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:33.160
the middle of that circle, almost like somebody drew a

310
00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:35.160
circle around the house, don't you adreak, Yeah, I do.

311
00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:37.400
But also in that circle is where you would park

312
00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:40.680
a truck if you pulled up, So you know, and

313
00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:43.759
I'm not saying that he wasn't in the house at

314
00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:45.960
some point in time there, but when I went to

315
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:47.319
get in the shower, he wasn't in.

316
00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:53.839
The house, and he very easily could have been there

317
00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:54.920
and been parked in the yard.

318
00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:09.240
All right. You agree at the bottom of page sixteen

319
00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:13.480
that about eight thirty, Maggie starts tracking stuffs again on

320
00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:15.400
her phone.

321
00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:17.640
Yes, sir, that's what the data shows.

322
00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:36.799
Let's hit the wrong button, and.

323
00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:39.680
You would agree with me that about eight thirty eight,

324
00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:44.119
Paul's fine shows him back up with the countels.

325
00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:50.920
Well, yes, sir, I agree that at eight thirty eight,

326
00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:53.880
let me see which one.

327
00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:55.799
It's hard for me to figure out which one of

328
00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:59.079
these rings, But at eight thirty eight it shows Paul

329
00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:02.079
in which every one of those rings is fifty six

330
00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:17.799
meters why.

331
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:13.200
And I have no reason to believe he wasn't at

332
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:13.640
the kennel.

333
00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:18.480
And then eight forty four fifty five, we've already gone

334
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:20.640
through this because that's the kennel video, right, Yes, sir,

335
00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:23.559
that's correct, and you would agree with me that it

336
00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:27.240
lasts about fifty seconds.

337
00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:33.799
Correct, Yes, sir, I agree with debt, and you would.

338
00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:37.839
Agree with me. Moving on to page nineteen, that both

339
00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.039
Maggie and Paul's phones locked for the final time around

340
00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:41.759
eight forty nine.

341
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:50.400
That's what the data shows.

342
00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:56.440
After that, you agree that Maggie's phone around eight fifty

343
00:19:56.440 --> 00:19:57.960
three shows some steps being taken.

344
00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:00.319
That's what the data shows, yes, sir.

345
00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:02.880
Leader doesn't showho's carrying ever, That's what it shows is

346
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:03.440
that correct.

347
00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:10.839
That is correct, And then.

348
00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:13.160
You would agree with me that from nine oh two

349
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:17.279
tonight o six, your phone finally comes to life and

350
00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:20.359
it starts showing a lot of stuffs.

351
00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:22.200
I do agree with that.

352
00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:22.880
What were you doing?

353
00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:26.079
I was getting ready to go to my mom's house.

354
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:27.960
Getting ready to go. I thought you like a shower already.

355
00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:29.319
You were just laying down on the couch. But what

356
00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:30.440
all you need to do to get ready to.

357
00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:31.160
Go to your mom's house.

358
00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:34.480
I mean, there wasn't anything to get ready in that aspect.

359
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:37.759
I was getting ready to go. I was preparing to

360
00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:40.759
leave to doing what. I don't know if I got up,

361
00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:43.160
I went to the bathroom, I don't know. I can't

362
00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:44.640
tell you exactly what I was doing.

363
00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:46.720
And that's far more steps in the shorter time period

364
00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:50.160
than any time prior, as you've seen from the testimony

365
00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:52.119
in this case. So what were you so busy doing?

366
00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:54.400
That's going to the bathroom?

367
00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:56.680
No, no, no, I don't think that I get on

368
00:20:56.759 --> 00:20:57.720
all the bathroom.

369
00:20:57.759 --> 00:20:57.799
No.

370
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:01.640
I didn't get on a treadmill place, nope. I didn't

371
00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:04.720
jog in place, No, sir, I did not do jumping that.

372
00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:07.319
What were you doing with Murdoculo's four.

373
00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:10.839
Minutes preparing to leave for my mom's house.

374
00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:13.160
What what does that mean? I mean, you're in the

375
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:15.960
front room on that couch where you say you laid down.

376
00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:18.640
The suburban's just right outside. What all are you doing?

377
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:19.240
I don't know.

378
00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:21.119
If I got up and went to my room, went

379
00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:23.599
to the gun room, went back in that.

380
00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:26.200
Doing what You've been so clear in your new story

381
00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:29.240
about everything, What were you doing during these four minutes?

382
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:35.799
I disagree with your assertion about every detail.

383
00:21:36.359 --> 00:21:39.839
I don't recall. I know that I was getting up

384
00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:42.079
and I was leaving. I was going to check on

385
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:44.240
my mom.

386
00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:49.039
That's specifically what I was doing. I don't I don't know. Okay,

387
00:21:53.720 --> 00:21:56.039
I know what I wasn't doing, mister Waters. And what

388
00:21:56.119 --> 00:21:59.079
I wasn't doing is doing anything.

389
00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:04.599
As I believe you've implied that I was cleaning off

390
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:07.640
or washing off or washing off guns, or putting guns

391
00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:10.039
in a rain coat. And I can promise you that

392
00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:11.319
I wasn't doing any of that.

393
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:15.160
Okay. Also, during this four minutes where you got two

394
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:19.880
hundred and eighty three steps, not only are you moving

395
00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:21.559
around a lot, but you're making a ton of phone

396
00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:23.799
calls because that in that same time period, you see

397
00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:26.680
this rip line right here where over that four minute

398
00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:30.160
period all those steps were taken. That's also when you're

399
00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:32.039
calling making all these phone calls.

400
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:36.480
Isn't it, mister Murdoch, Well, I made the phone calls.

401
00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:37.319
Slas and making phone calls.

402
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:41.039
Is that what I'm allowed to answer? Before mister Waters

403
00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:46.559
steps on him again with another question, please thank him.

404
00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:49.440
You were making all these phone calls while you were

405
00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:52.200
taking all these steps. Would you conceive that where you

406
00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:53.400
don't remember what you were doing?

407
00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:58.839
Well, I was making phone calls and that shown here

408
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:02.000
at nine oh five, I call my dad. You know,

409
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:05.839
I don't know that I was taking steps like you're saying,

410
00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:08.359
I'm taking steps. I heard the same testimony you heard,

411
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:12.759
mister Waters, and you know steps can be recorded any

412
00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:16.039
number of ways. I don't have a specific recollection of

413
00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:16.640
walking around.

414
00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:18.119
I don't know if I was hitting my phone like

415
00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:20.599
the guys showed or doing whatever that makes steps.

416
00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:22.519
But you know you were hit with your phone like

417
00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:24.240
that while you were making all these phone calls.

418
00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:26.759
No, what I'm saying, mister Words, I don't know that.

419
00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:30.200
I'm just giving you an example. You're saying that I'm

420
00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:33.559
running around taking these steps and while I'm doing that,

421
00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:35.559
I'm making telephone calls.

422
00:23:35.720 --> 00:23:37.359
What I will agree with is.

423
00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:41.599
That this data shows that there was two hundred and

424
00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:42.880
eighty three steps.

425
00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:48.119
Recorded on my phone, and sometime during that period, I

426
00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:50.279
made certain phone calls.

427
00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:53.960
Okay, all right, So not only for whatever it is

428
00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:58.279
is recording steps, which you're also making a ton of

429
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:05.559
phone calls, including missed calls to Maggie who is eleven

430
00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:06.400
hundred feet away.

431
00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:10.039
Supposedly you're using the term a ton of phone calls.

432
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:12.920
What I agree is that I made the phone calls

433
00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:16.720
that are listed on these call data records.

434
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:17.200
Which.

435
00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:20.480
You know are very normal phone calls from me.

436
00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:28.279
Do you know why so many phone calls were missing

437
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:31.480
from the log around this relevant time period when law

438
00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:36.000
enforcement downloaded your phone on June tenth.

439
00:24:35.079 --> 00:24:37.559
From my phone? Yeah, no, I don't.

440
00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:39.160
Did you delete them, mister Murdock?

441
00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:44.519
Not intentionally, just around time June seventh, all these calls

442
00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:46.440
were missing, but you had nothing to do with that.

443
00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:49.039
Between June seventh and June tenth.

444
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:52.000
No, sir, I did not, and I did not delete

445
00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:53.839
phone calls from my phone. Mister.

446
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:56.119
What is one of the most important things in this

447
00:24:56.240 --> 00:25:01.880
whole thing for me has been getting this data that

448
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:07.480
I believe would exist. Phone calls and phone records would

449
00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:10.640
be part of that. I've been in enough civil cases

450
00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:14.920
and used phone records enough times to know that you

451
00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:18.119
delete a phone call from your phone, it doesn't disappear.

452
00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:23.559
So I can tell you this jury and everybody who's

453
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:28.680
listening that I did not intentionally delete phone calls from

454
00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:29.200
my phone.

455
00:25:29.319 --> 00:25:31.960
Yeah, because you started talking about that. You're a former

456
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:36.079
prosecutor correct, and former lawyer doing civil cases. We went

457
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:39.480
through that yesterday and boy, you're busy bee on my

458
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:42.240
phone right out of the gate A nine are two?

459
00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:42.519
Right?

460
00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:46.440
Production's overruled.

461
00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:51.640
Am I a busy bee? Yep, I am using my

462
00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:57.839
telephone at I think I call at nine oh five,

463
00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:00.119
I start and call my dad, and I agreed that

464
00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:01.279
I made other phone costs.

465
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:03.400
And one of the first things you started talking about

466
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:07.839
with law enforcement is these calls that you made to Maggie.

467
00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:11.400
Correct you remember recall that from your first statement to

468
00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:12.119
law enforcement.

469
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:15.400
One of the first things did I said to law enforcement?

470
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:16.960
Yeah, that's one of the things you talk about I'm

471
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:19.319
talking about with your interview with Special Agent Dave Owen.

472
00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:24.519
I don't remember that being the first thing we talked about.

473
00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:28.359
But if mister Owens asked me about it, then I

474
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:32.079
didn't you I did?

475
00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:36.599
You don't recall, No, I don't. I don't recall.

476
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:38.400
Would you just give me if I said you brought

477
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:41.839
it up that I brought up? What brought up what,

478
00:26:42.279 --> 00:26:44.839
mister Murdock, your phone phone.

479
00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:45.400
Calls to Maggie?

480
00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:45.799
Yes?

481
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:48.680
Did I brought up phone costs to Maggie to David Owens.

482
00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:52.480
I'm asking you, is that one of the things that

483
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:55.000
you talked about in your first interview with Dave Owen,

484
00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:58.400
that you pulled out your phone and started looking at it,

485
00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:00.240
that you brought that up. Do you recall that?

486
00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:03.039
Well, but that's not what you asked mister Owens. You

487
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:03.960
asked me.

488
00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:06.079
Was that the first thing that I talked to him about,

489
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:09.359
and that was the discrepancy. I certainly don't dispute that

490
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:15.400
mister Owens and I talked about phone calls, but that's

491
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:16.119
not what you said.

492
00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:18.720
So just to be clear, Well, the real reason, mister

493
00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:26.559
Murdoch is that you, as a lawyer and prosecutor, are

494
00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:29.640
up at nine oh two finally having your phone in

495
00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:33.119
your hand, moving around and making all these phone calls

496
00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:36.160
to manufacture and alibi. Is that not true?

497
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:37.839
That's absolutely incorrect.

498
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:43.279
So that's just another circumstance and coincidence in this particular case,

499
00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:48.759
right around the time that you lied to law enforcement

500
00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:50.920
about maybe one of the most important facts in the case.

501
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:56.240
I meant before the question, it is an absolute fact

502
00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:59.759
that I am not manufacturing an alibi.

503
00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:02.680
As you say, how do you remember so much detail

504
00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:05.200
about everything else, but you don't remember what you were

505
00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:08.200
specifically doing to generate two hundred and eighty three steps

506
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:10.559
while you're making these all these phone calls in the

507
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:11.880
same four minute period.

508
00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:16.400
I remember, unequivocally, without any doubt, with as clear a

509
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:20.480
mind as I could have at any time.

510
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:26.720
Did I never manufactured any alibi in any way, shape

511
00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:31.400
or form, because I did not and would not hurt

512
00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:33.079
my wife and my child.

513
00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:36.680
So I know for a fact, did I never ever

514
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:39.720
ever created an alibi?

515
00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:42.039
Why don't you remember what you were doing when you

516
00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:46.000
were so busy for this four minute critical period. I

517
00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:48.960
do remember what I was doing other than I was

518
00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:50.559
getting ready to go.

519
00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:53.559
Well, that's because that's what I was doing.

520
00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:24.119
Okay, Well, let's keep going. You made those calls to

521
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:29.920
Maggie in that four minute period you had just seen

522
00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:33.759
them a few minutes ago. When you say you went

523
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:37.839
down there and came right back, why didn't you just

524
00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:43.519
take that quick little left elen hundred yards away and

525
00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:46.559
stop by. See why they didn't answer the call. You're

526
00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:48.319
obviously wanting to get in touch with them. Why didn't

527
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:53.440
you go down to the kennels that were so close by?

528
00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:55.240
There was no reason to.

529
00:29:59.240 --> 00:30:03.519
I mean, can multiple miscalls to Maggie and she's so close,

530
00:30:04.599 --> 00:30:06.720
and there's a driveway right there, why do you not

531
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:08.799
just go down there and say, hey, guys, I'm heading

532
00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:09.240
over there.

533
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:11.519
It wasn't important to do that.

534
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:15.359
Me me making those phone calls is simply me letting

535
00:30:16.119 --> 00:30:18.359
I believe I called Maggie in I believe called I

536
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:22.839
called Paul. But that that that's simply me just letting

537
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:25.279
them know that I'm leaving for a minute. I'll be back.

538
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:31.640
The fact that that they don't answer, it's not unusual

539
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:37.000
at all. Now, it is odd, it is unusual that

540
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:38.279
they never called me back.

541
00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:42.519
And but but at that moment, the fact that there's a.

542
00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:45.799
Miscall when when I know they're on the property, I mean,

543
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:51.079
that doesn't even register at all. That's perfectly normal to

544
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:53.240
try to call somebody who's on the property and not

545
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:57.039
be able to get them. And and as far as

546
00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:00.680
not going down there, there was no sense of urgency.

547
00:31:01.079 --> 00:31:06.960
Maggie was with Paul. You know, she should be as

548
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:11.079
safe as she could be.

549
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:17.359
Man, she sure.

550
00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:31.839
Did you talk with Maggie about going to Almeda when

551
00:31:31.839 --> 00:31:33.519
you were at the kennels?

552
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:35.960
No, I don't believe I did.

553
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:40.359
Did you talk with Maggie about going to Almeda during supper?

554
00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:44.839
I know that we had talked about it, I had talked.

555
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:46.880
I don't believe we talked about it at supper, but

556
00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:49.039
we may have. I know that I had talked about

557
00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:52.119
that I was going to go over there, and then

558
00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:55.240
I decided that I wasn't going to go over there.

559
00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:58.599
But what was your conversation a supper? Tell me specifically,

560
00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:02.079
if you could, please, that's all going to all meet him.

561
00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:05.400
I can't tell you that we specifically talked about that.

562
00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:07.640
The only thing that I can tell you we specifically

563
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:09.160
talked about that supper.

564
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:12.240
Was Paul Paul all right? And what was the conversation.

565
00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:24.200
Maggie was just concerned Paul.

566
00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:27.519
Paul had been having For a young person, Paul had

567
00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:31.480
been having high blood pressure and he's very resistant to

568
00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:32.279
go to the doctor.

569
00:32:33.079 --> 00:32:37.319
And this has been going on for a little while, but.

570
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:41.640
Lately Paul's feet had swollen, and for twenty two year

571
00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:46.079
old to have start having swollen feet concerned both of us,

572
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:49.400
and it particularly concerned Maggie, and we talked about that.

573
00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:55.400
Okay, did y'all talk about mister Randolph and all?

574
00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:58.000
I'm sure we did.

575
00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:01.400
Do you remember that group text and in about uh,

576
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:03.680
whether or not anybody was gonna go see mister Randolph

577
00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:04.839
at the hospital the next time?

578
00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:08.200
Do I remember it coming in? I don't remember it coming.

579
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:09.400
In because you didn't read it until the next day.

580
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:11.200
But I've seen it. I've seen the data.

581
00:33:11.559 --> 00:33:14.839
Why didn't you? Did you ever text the group and

582
00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:17.119
say you were going to al Meeta at all?

583
00:33:18.680 --> 00:33:18.720
No?

584
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:23.599
Did Maggie ever? Did you and Maggie ever specifically discuss

585
00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:26.000
her going along with you to al Meeta?

586
00:33:28.519 --> 00:33:29.880
I don't believe that we did.

587
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:33.200
I know that there was a point in time where

588
00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:37.880
I said Maggie might go, but it's highly unusual for

589
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:42.519
Maggie to go and visit just my mom. That that

590
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:48.000
whole situation, it just made it made Maggie sad and

591
00:33:48.079 --> 00:33:52.599
she didn't like to go, so you I don't believe

592
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:55.279
that we did, but I do acknowledge that at some

593
00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:57.400
point I said she might go for some reason.

594
00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:02.880
You told law enforcement on in multiple cas that, first

595
00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:05.599
of all, Maggie was claiming to stay at Autistow the

596
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:06.920
night of June seventh. Correct.

597
00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:08.719
I did say that, all right.

598
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:11.960
And you also said that you came to find out

599
00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:14.639
that she came home of her own accord. Correct. You

600
00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:16.840
told that to law enforcement. Is that true?

601
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:20.320
She did come home of her own accord.

602
00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:22.639
That she decided on her own to come home because

603
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:24.960
she was worried about you. Didn't that what you said?

604
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:28.679
I did say that. I believe that to be the case.

605
00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:28.760
All right.

606
00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:32.000
But since we've despite what you told law enforcement, we've

607
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:36.719
seen the texts that you actually called her and asked

608
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:38.880
her to come home on the night of June seventh.

609
00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:40.320
No, sir, that's not correct.

610
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:41.320
That's not correct.

611
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:43.320
No, sir, that's absolutely not correct.

612
00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:43.559
Right.

613
00:34:43.639 --> 00:34:46.719
So you heard your sister in law, Marian taysifight in

614
00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:49.199
just that fact of a conversation she had with Maggie.

615
00:34:49.239 --> 00:34:51.440
But you're saying that's not true.

616
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:54.079
I don't believe that's what Marion said.

617
00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:59.280
And your defense put in this exhibit Exhibit one oh seven,

618
00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:03.639
where Maggie texted Blanca and said, Alec wants me to

619
00:35:03.639 --> 00:35:04.079
come home.

620
00:35:05.320 --> 00:35:06.559
I've seen that. I agree with that.

621
00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:09.679
He's not it up on the stream. Up. I've got

622
00:35:09.679 --> 00:35:11.159
a long handle with here. I just told it up.

623
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:14.599
You've seen this text.

624
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:17.760
I have seen that, mister water is the only dispute

625
00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:19.119
I have with what you're saying.

626
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:23.119
Is you're saying that I called Maggie and wanted her

627
00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:23.679
to come home.

628
00:35:24.280 --> 00:35:27.679
I always wanted Maggie to come home, and I would

629
00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:30.239
have talked to Maggie about coming home before she ever

630
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:36.800
left to go to Charleston and to Edistone. And I

631
00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:41.239
can tell you this, and I didn't realize this at

632
00:35:41.239 --> 00:35:44.360
the time, but I realize it now that.

633
00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:48.480
Maggie was already undecided.

634
00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:52.719
Now I didn't know this, but Maggie was already undecided

635
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:55.599
about staying at Edistone.

636
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:57.599
I can promise you that, because.

637
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:03.760
Bubba and gret were in their kennels, as y'all well know,

638
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:05.719
that night.

639
00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:11.199
That day, if Maggie was certain that she was spending

640
00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:11.880
the night at.

641
00:36:11.800 --> 00:36:14.639
Edistowe, at a minimum, Bubba would have been with her

642
00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:17.320
and probably both dogs would have been with her. It

643
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:20.119
was very unusual for her to spend the night anywhere

644
00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:26.039
without one of us or those dogs. So that tells

645
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:30.000
me that when she left that morning, she was already

646
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:32.719
seriously thinking about coming back.

647
00:36:33.159 --> 00:36:34.920
So you're saying that you never called her and had

648
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:38.440
a conversation that day asking her to come home. Specifically,

649
00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:41.039
on the night of June seventh, twenty twenty one.

650
00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:44.639
Maggie and I had a couple of phone conversations that day.

651
00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:49.000
What I'm telling you is that before she left. No,

652
00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:51.559
I don't believe we had a phone call about that.

653
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:53.599
We may have discussed during the phone call, but I

654
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:55.800
didn't make a phone call to her to ask her

655
00:36:55.800 --> 00:36:59.199
to come home. I had already told her I wanted

656
00:36:59.239 --> 00:37:02.440
her to come home. I always wanted her to come home.

657
00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:05.159
You heard Mary and say that too, that I always

658
00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:06.239
wanted Maggie with me.

659
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:09.679
Maggie thought enough of her to talk about it with Mariyan.

660
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:10.199
Didn't she.

661
00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:13.239
The fact that I wanted her to come home?

662
00:37:13.400 --> 00:37:13.760
Correct?

663
00:37:16.679 --> 00:37:19.239
Well, sure, I mean that's what Marian said.

664
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:22.440
So you're denying that you called Maggie and specifically asked

665
00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:23.440
her to come home that night.

666
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:27.320
I didn't make a phone call to Maggie to ask

667
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:30.360
her to come home that night. I asked Maggie to

668
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:36.199
come home long before she ever left, and I probably

669
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:39.079
asked her again each time I talked to her, But

670
00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:41.760
I didn't make the phone call specifically.

671
00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:53.960
For that, as you're saying. And to be clear, I'm.

672
00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:57.639
Certain that if Maggie was certain that she was spending

673
00:37:57.639 --> 00:38:02.320
the night, bubb would have been with her and probably Grady.

674
00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:17.519
All right, why did you tell law enforcement there that

675
00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:19.840
you found out after the fact that Maggie wanted to

676
00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:22.400
come home because she was concerned about you. Why did

677
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:24.119
you phrase it that way? If what you're saying to

678
00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:27.679
the jury now was accurate, why would you phrase it

679
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:28.079
that way?

680
00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:30.280
Because I believe that to be the case that.

681
00:38:30.199 --> 00:38:32.280
You found out afterwards. But now you're saying you knew.

682
00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:35.360
No, I'm saying I found out afterwards why she came home,

683
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:39.880
mister Waters, and she came home because she was worried

684
00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:43.360
about me. So I'm going to be clear about that.

685
00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:50.079
I did not learn that until I think today, after

686
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:50.960
she got killed.

687
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:56.400
But you're saying that you found out that after the fact,

688
00:38:56.400 --> 00:39:00.239
that you're telling this jury that you knew the things

689
00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:02.880
that you just said about her wanting to come home,

690
00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:06.159
and you were unaware of what Marian would say at

691
00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:06.760
that point either.

692
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:09.239
No, I'm saying at that time I had not thought

693
00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:13.599
about bub and Grady. Since that time I thought about that,

694
00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:16.119
I'm certain of that. At the time, I thought Maggie

695
00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:20.039
was staying at Edistowe, all right. She was going to

696
00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:23.719
Edistow to meet the people to do the work.

697
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:27.559
Maggie loved to stay at Edistowe. There's no doubt about that.

698
00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:31.159
It would not be unusual at all for her to

699
00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:33.239
stay at Edistowe.

700
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:37.400
But just like every other time, I had already asked

701
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:42.360
her please come back, come back, always wanted her to

702
00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:51.719
stay with me always, But I did not learn about

703
00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:57.400
and Maggie even texted me I'll see you in a

704
00:39:57.440 --> 00:40:01.599
few hours. But I I did not know why she

705
00:40:01.719 --> 00:40:13.800
decided to come back until later. It's what I'm saying,

706
00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:18.920
and I learned it from Blanco. Blanca actually showed me

707
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:25.480
the text that she sent her talking about being worried

708
00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:25.880
about me.

709
00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:35.800
You would agree with me that you sent a text

710
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:40.079
to Maggie at nine to eight fifty eight while in

711
00:40:40.119 --> 00:40:43.519
motion in the suburban that's reflected by the data.

712
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:54.199
I do, which was because I couldn't reach them by

713
00:40:54.199 --> 00:40:57.760
the telephone and I wanted them to know where I was. Okay,

714
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:02.280
which is what we do.

715
00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:09.280
And you got to our meet around nine twenty two.

716
00:41:11.480 --> 00:41:15.360
I believe that's correct. I can go out, Uh, I don't.

717
00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:18.000
I don't have any reason to dispute.

718
00:41:18.039 --> 00:41:38.079
That made some more phone calls along the way.

719
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:42.440
I did make more phone calls along the way while I.

720
00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:45.119
Was riding, called Chrus Wilson.

721
00:41:45.719 --> 00:42:01.920
I did call Chris Wilson, got a short conversation with him.

722
00:42:02.079 --> 00:42:02.559
Is that right?

723
00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:07.880
I did have a conversation for half a long the record.

724
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:10.000
Show about a one one hundred and thirty one seconds,

725
00:42:10.039 --> 00:42:11.320
So that sounded aut right.

726
00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:14.679
If that's what the record show two minutes.

727
00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:17.840
Called your brother John Marvin for about a hundred and

728
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:20.280
six seconds in coding connection times, that sounds about right.

729
00:42:20.360 --> 00:42:21.599
It does sound about right.

730
00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:31.880
Arrived at nine twenty two.

731
00:42:32.119 --> 00:42:33.000
Is that sounded al right?

732
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:35.000
It does?

733
00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:49.599
And then at nine twenty four you call that's the

734
00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:51.920
landline at I'll meet us. Is that correct?

735
00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:55.559
That is correct?

736
00:42:57.599 --> 00:42:59.239
And then you went inside? Is that right?

737
00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:06.440
Yeah? That's right, that's right. Called the house phone to

738
00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:07.559
get Shelley to let me in.

739
00:43:10.519 --> 00:43:13.440
And when you were asked by law enforcement how long

740
00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:15.679
you were at your mother's house, you said forty five

741
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:17.440
minutes to an hour. Wasn't that correct?

742
00:43:18.440 --> 00:43:20.599
I think I said a couple of different things, but

743
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:23.920
I think at one time I did say that. But

744
00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:28.719
you know, routinely through these things, I kept saying, you know,

745
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:32.519
when you get this data, you'll see exactly when you

746
00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:35.039
look at my phone, you'll see exactly when you do

747
00:43:35.199 --> 00:43:40.920
you know, So you know, me giving the times was

748
00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:46.480
always given with the thought that, Okay, there's on star

749
00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:48.599
out there, there's whatever.

750
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:51.800
Well, when you had a conversation with miss Shelley after

751
00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:54.400
the fact, you actually asked her to say that you

752
00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:56.719
were there longer than twenty minutes.

753
00:43:59.320 --> 00:44:04.599
You know, I heard Shelley's testimony. I believe Shelley to

754
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:11.079
be a good person. I wasn't trying to influence Shelley

755
00:44:11.159 --> 00:44:16.280
on any particular length of time because at the beginning

756
00:44:16.280 --> 00:44:19.960
of this I believe that data would show what data

757
00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:23.440
would show, and for me to tell her to say

758
00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:26.960
something when my own star's going to show something different

759
00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:28.639
just doesn't make any sense.

760
00:44:29.320 --> 00:44:34.800
So you know, I can't answer that. What my recollection

761
00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:35.320
is is.

762
00:44:35.239 --> 00:44:38.400
That I told Shelley that law enforcement would be talking

763
00:44:38.440 --> 00:44:41.400
to her. We may have discussed how long I was

764
00:44:41.480 --> 00:44:44.559
there at that point in time. If I thought I

765
00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:47.559
was there forty five minutes, I may have said I

766
00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:48.840
was here forty five minutes.

767
00:44:48.920 --> 00:44:52.559
But you know I can't tell you, right.

768
00:44:53.320 --> 00:44:58.920
That's that Blocker testify too, that you talked to her

769
00:44:59.119 --> 00:45:02.840
about the close that you were wearing. It made her uncomfortable.

770
00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:08.039
Correct asked that question again.

771
00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:13.639
It's similar to your conversation with Blanca that she testified

772
00:45:13.639 --> 00:45:15.800
about when you talked to her about the clothes that

773
00:45:15.880 --> 00:45:19.400
you were supposedly wearing. What made her feel uncomfortable? Do

774
00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:20.480
you remember that testimony?

775
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:21.800
Sir? What's similar to that?

776
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:25.239
Well, that you're talking to both of these individuals about

777
00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:28.360
their testimony in a manner that's inconsistent with what they know.

778
00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:30.199
No, I don't, I don't think.

779
00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:31.119
I don't.

780
00:45:31.159 --> 00:45:33.280
I don't think your assertion is accurate. You have to

781
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:33.960
understand this.

782
00:45:34.519 --> 00:45:38.159
On August the eleventh, when I went to meet with

783
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:44.599
David Owens, and in that David Owens asked me about

784
00:45:45.079 --> 00:45:47.639
he showed me that snapchat and asked me about clothes

785
00:45:48.280 --> 00:45:56.519
that I had on. And shortly after that, the next

786
00:45:56.599 --> 00:46:02.840
time I was with Blanca. I asked Blanca about those

787
00:46:02.840 --> 00:46:06.119
clothes because David Owens.

788
00:46:06.360 --> 00:46:07.480
Had asked me about him.

789
00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:11.159
It was making made an issue about it, and so

790
00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:18.000
I checked with Blanca to see what I specifically asked Blanca,

791
00:46:18.119 --> 00:46:20.800
and it was an issue to me. So I got

792
00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:23.119
Blanc and I said, I need you to sit down

793
00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:24.280
and talk with me about this.

794
00:46:24.280 --> 00:46:29.639
This is important. Do you remember my clothes.

795
00:46:30.760 --> 00:46:34.960
When you came to Mozelle that day? And she remembered

796
00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:38.280
exactly what she testified to. She remembered that my pants

797
00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:40.719
were there. She wasn't sure if the shirt was there

798
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:44.679
at that time. I think she actually thought the shirt

799
00:46:44.719 --> 00:46:46.800
was there, but she was clear that she wasn't sure

800
00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:47.239
about that.

801
00:46:49.760 --> 00:46:52.639
But oh no, no, she wasn't unsure, but she didn't

802
00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:57.679
remember but assumed that it was. So that was the

803
00:46:57.719 --> 00:47:02.079
conversation that and why I was asking Blanca.

804
00:47:02.519 --> 00:47:05.199
Right again, you're very specific about your memories of that conversation.

805
00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:06.199
Is that correct, mister Murna.

806
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:10.679
You dang right. I'm consistent about that because a very

807
00:47:10.719 --> 00:47:16.239
short time before that, David Owens is asking me questions

808
00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:20.599
and telling me I'm a suspect in the murder of

809
00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:23.960
my wife and my child and asking me about my clothes.

810
00:47:24.039 --> 00:47:27.360
You dang right, it was important. It was important, right,

811
00:47:27.400 --> 00:47:30.719
and you dang right. I remember why I went to her,

812
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:31.719
and for what reason?

813
00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:34.559
Because the only thing you're concerned about is yourself. You're

814
00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:39.000
not concerned about giving accurate information to law enforcement. Correct.

815
00:47:41.360 --> 00:47:43.599
What's the reason for that, mister Murdock. Why don't you

816
00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:46.480
want to give accurate information to law enforcement? Why do

817
00:47:46.519 --> 00:47:49.480
you want to talk to these women who both are

818
00:47:49.480 --> 00:47:51.920
employed by you or your family and try to influence

819
00:47:52.119 --> 00:47:53.079
what they were going to say.

820
00:47:54.239 --> 00:48:00.239
I did want to give law enforcement accurate information. I

821
00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:06.480
told a lie about being down there, and I got

822
00:48:06.519 --> 00:48:10.280
myself wedd to that. But I wanted to give them

823
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:14.559
as much I knew that I hadn't done this, and

824
00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:18.599
I wanted to give them as much accurate information as

825
00:48:18.639 --> 00:48:22.440
I could. But the reason I went to Blanca is

826
00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:25.800
specifically because David Owen's talking to me.

827
00:48:25.719 --> 00:48:27.079
On allis eleven.

828
00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:38.159
And see that you're under way about nine forty two,

829
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:45.559
heading back nine nine forty three.

830
00:48:46.119 --> 00:48:46.400
I do.

831
00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:24.920
Turn on Mozelle about ten o one.

832
00:49:27.239 --> 00:49:35.760
Turned into Moselle at ten oh one. Yeah, sorry, it

833
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:37.400
looks to me like I turned into Mozelle.

834
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:40.920
At ten o'clock, ten o'clock on the dive. Sorry, yes, sir,

835
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:53.440
at the house at ten oh five, Yes, sir.

836
00:49:57.639 --> 00:50:00.639
Remember that's when you went back to the kennels after

837
00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:02.119
you came back from al Meata. Correct.

838
00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:07.400
I went to the kennels after I went to the

839
00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:13.159
house at I went from Almeta's to the house to

840
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:14.599
the kennels.

841
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:20.199
And we got to the scene. You got out of

842
00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:23.880
the car, according to what you told law enforcement repeatedly,

843
00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:34.239
and went and checked the bodies, correct, before you called

844
00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:35.840
nine one one. Is that correct?

845
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:38.679
No, serio, that's not correct.

846
00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:41.159
You don't you're saying you didn't say that to law enforcement.

847
00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:43.719
I don't know what I said law enforcements for, but

848
00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:49.920
I can tell you this. I pulled up and I

849
00:50:49.960 --> 00:50:58.000
saw Paul. I jumped out of that car, and I

850
00:50:58.039 --> 00:51:00.639
went back to my car and a car nine one

851
00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:04.679
one as quickly as I could. That point in time

852
00:51:05.079 --> 00:51:07.760
when I got on the phone, then is when I

853
00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:14.360
went to them and did the things that I did.

854
00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:20.760
So what you're saying is not accurate.

855
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:23.960
You're saying that you didn't say, very specifically the law

856
00:51:24.039 --> 00:51:29.480
enforcement that you went to them prior to calling nine

857
00:51:29.519 --> 00:51:35.559
one one, When after you got out of the car.

858
00:51:36.199 --> 00:51:38.639
You told law enforcement repeatedly that you went over and

859
00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:40.679
checked the bodies before you called nine one one.

860
00:51:42.039 --> 00:51:43.159
No, I don't.

861
00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:47.679
If I did say that, I don't believe that's accurate.

862
00:51:48.679 --> 00:51:51.320
Did I check Maggie and Paul before I called nine

863
00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:51.760
one one?

864
00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:52.559
Correct?

865
00:51:52.880 --> 00:51:55.519
No, sir, that's not that's not I don't that's not accurate.

866
00:51:56.360 --> 00:51:57.840
At least, that's not what I remember.

867
00:51:58.119 --> 00:51:59.880
That's not what you remember saying, or that's not what

868
00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:01.199
she's say now happens.

869
00:52:01.760 --> 00:52:06.519
No, that's not what that's not what I believe happened.

870
00:52:07.119 --> 00:52:09.000
Okay, but you don't deny that's what you said.

871
00:52:11.719 --> 00:52:15.199
Did I said? Did I check Maggie and Paul before

872
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:16.159
I called down one one?

873
00:52:16.360 --> 00:52:16.480
Right?

874
00:52:18.159 --> 00:52:19.599
I don't believe that's what I said.

875
00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:35.039
Now, I know I checked them, but I don't believe

876
00:52:35.079 --> 00:52:54.400
I checked them before I called now one one.

877
00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:56.320
Because I I can pretty well remember vividly when I

878
00:52:56.440 --> 00:53:23.920
checked Paul Paul. I was already on the phone with none.

879
00:52:59.679 --> 00:53:26.840
On looking at this data. Yeah, to show the vehicle

880
00:53:27.320 --> 00:53:32.239
parking at ten oh five and fifty five seconds, Yes, sir,

881
00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:39.599
ten oh five fifty seven. The suburban arrives at the

882
00:53:39.639 --> 00:53:40.760
Kennels you agree with that.

883
00:53:45.320 --> 00:53:48.840
I'm sorry, said anagains word at ten oh.

884
00:53:48.719 --> 00:54:03.440
Five fifty seven. It shows the suburban arriving at the kennels. Okay, okay,

885
00:54:04.639 --> 00:54:08.599
the nine won one call? Was that ten oh six fourteen?

886
00:54:09.639 --> 00:54:10.000
Okay?

887
00:54:10.320 --> 00:54:13.519
Just about twenty seconds later? You agree with that?

888
00:54:17.239 --> 00:54:19.800
I think that sounds right. Yes, sir, it may not

889
00:54:19.880 --> 00:54:26.440
make sense, but that goes back to what I'm saying

890
00:54:26.599 --> 00:54:42.239
is I pulled up, I saw, I saw them, and

891
00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:48.280
I know I jumped out of my car, but I

892
00:54:48.360 --> 00:54:55.400
believe that before I checked them. In fact, I'm almost certain,

893
00:54:56.559 --> 00:55:01.480
and then I went back and I got my That's

894
00:55:01.480 --> 00:55:03.760
when I went and got my phone and I called

895
00:55:03.800 --> 00:55:09.440
down one one, and then after I called now one

896
00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:12.119
one they I mean there was a little while where

897
00:55:12.119 --> 00:55:16.760
there wasn't. I don't think there was anything going on,

898
00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:21.719
and I believe that that is the time period that

899
00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:34.000
I went and checked on them.

900
00:55:34.039 --> 00:55:35.960
I don't want to believe at this point that what

901
00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:38.159
you're saying here today, now that we have this data,

902
00:55:38.199 --> 00:55:40.400
that's not exactly how you expressed it the law enforcement

903
00:55:40.559 --> 00:55:41.519
in your prior statements.

904
00:55:41.599 --> 00:55:44.559
Is that correct, No, sir, I disagree with that. So

905
00:55:44.599 --> 00:55:47.800
I totally disagree with that mister waters, will you point

906
00:55:47.840 --> 00:55:48.800
to what you're talking about?

907
00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:10.119
All right, sir, you got the hounds? Like what seven?

908
00:56:21.440 --> 00:56:21.559
Right?

909
00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:22.119
Miss word up?

910
00:56:22.840 --> 00:56:26.960
Just take your full name for me, Richard Alexander.

911
00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:34.039
I mean think of the last thing so you get correct.

912
00:56:34.719 --> 00:56:38.440
Yea you are d A U g H.

913
00:56:40.280 --> 00:56:46.320
Can you go by alex Yes, sir, h be a

914
00:56:46.360 --> 00:56:47.559
birth mister wardop.

915
00:56:48.719 --> 00:56:51.880
May seven, nineteen sixty eight.

916
00:56:53.480 --> 00:56:59.360
To sold for eight zero three nine four two one

917
00:56:59.400 --> 00:57:00.280
two two heaven.

918
00:57:05.039 --> 00:57:07.760
Yeah, and so what would your name?

919
00:57:09.199 --> 00:57:18.639
Yeah?

920
00:57:11.320 --> 00:57:22.239
Okay, all right, as a state of from David Owen

921
00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:25.840
being a floor on this Caulk County, I'm sliff.

922
00:57:28.840 --> 00:57:30.519
I have to do this. I understand.

923
00:57:30.639 --> 00:57:31.719
I totally understand.

924
00:57:31.840 --> 00:57:37.119
So you don't. You don't have any problem with it, So.

925
00:57:40.079 --> 00:57:41.679
Just start the top. Take your time.

926
00:57:43.480 --> 00:57:46.360
Like when I came back here, I mean I pulled

927
00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:49.000
up and I could see him, and you know, I

928
00:57:49.039 --> 00:57:50.039
knew something was bad.

929
00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:51.039
I ran out.

930
00:57:51.719 --> 00:57:56.159
I knew it was really bad, and yeah, little boy

931
00:57:56.400 --> 00:58:00.320
over there, I could see it was h.

932
00:58:08.440 --> 00:58:12.239
H h h.

933
00:58:19.079 --> 00:58:24.119
I could see his brain m.

934
00:58:27.800 --> 00:58:30.920
H m hmmm.

935
00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:39.000
And I ran over to Maggie. Actually, I think I

936
00:58:39.119 --> 00:58:41.199
tried to turn Paul over first.

937
00:58:44.039 --> 00:58:47.320
Uh, you know, I tried to turn him over, and

938
00:58:48.119 --> 00:58:49.440
I don't know I figured.

939
00:58:49.159 --> 00:58:49.679
It out.

940
00:58:51.960 --> 00:58:53.920
Him cell phone popped out of his pocket.

941
00:58:54.039 --> 00:58:58.719
I started to try to do something with it, thinking maybe,

942
00:58:58.760 --> 00:59:02.880
but then I put it back down really quickly. Then

943
00:59:02.880 --> 00:59:05.559
I went to my wife, and I.

944
00:59:07.360 --> 00:59:16.039
Mean I could see did you touch maybe?

945
00:59:16.079 --> 00:59:16.719
And off I did.

946
00:59:17.119 --> 00:59:19.360
I touched some boat I tried to take.

947
00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:21.920
I mean, I tried to do it as will limited

948
00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:23.320
as possible, but I.

949
00:59:23.800 --> 00:59:30.239
Tried to take their thoughts on both of them.

950
00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:33.719
And you know, I called nine one one.

951
00:59:35.239 --> 00:59:40.320
Pretty much right away, and she was very good.

952
00:59:47.039 --> 00:59:49.679
I talked to her. I told her I was going

953
00:59:49.760 --> 00:59:51.760
to get off the phone to call some family.

954
00:59:53.599 --> 01:00:03.159
I did that, and the family members did you call him?

955
01:00:03.519 --> 01:00:04.400
My brother Ry?

956
01:00:05.760 --> 01:00:13.239
And I called my brother John, and I tried to

957
01:00:13.280 --> 01:00:16.400
call the little boy. Real good trends right around the

958
01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:17.280
corner from here, but.

959
01:00:17.280 --> 01:00:25.679
I think you get him.

960
01:00:25.679 --> 01:00:28.840
That person who's in name I was rugged around the corner.

961
01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:30.079
Is that who you're talking about?

962
01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:31.360
That's correct.

963
01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:38.559
But going back to your question, I mean, that's that's

964
01:00:38.599 --> 01:00:41.639
the way I remember it. What I said right there,

965
01:00:42.199 --> 01:00:46.760
And you know you're over your question about did I

966
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:52.280
do these things before I called now one one? That's

967
01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:55.079
not what I said then, And that's not what I

968
01:00:55.119 --> 01:00:55.760
remember now.

969
01:00:56.679 --> 01:00:58.559
So you're saying now that you want out.

970
01:01:00.119 --> 01:01:00.280
Act.

971
01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:02.280
You came back, got your phone, and that's when you

972
01:01:02.280 --> 01:01:03.039
called nine one one.

973
01:01:03.119 --> 01:01:05.519
I'm not saying that now, mister, I am saying that now,

974
01:01:05.559 --> 01:01:07.480
But to me, that's what I said then.

975
01:01:07.639 --> 01:01:11.239
I mean I told her I called nine one one

976
01:01:11.320 --> 01:01:11.800
right away.

977
01:01:11.920 --> 01:01:13.719
I didn't have there was no time to do to

978
01:01:13.840 --> 01:01:18.920
things that I'm talking about doing in the time between

979
01:01:19.960 --> 01:01:21.159
getting there and.

980
01:01:24.320 --> 01:01:25.360
Calling nine one one.

981
01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:28.119
When you talked about calling Rogan and he said that

982
01:01:28.159 --> 01:01:29.400
he lives right around the corner.

983
01:01:29.519 --> 01:01:31.199
Correct, that's correct.

984
01:01:32.679 --> 01:01:35.920
But Rugan wasn't staying there at the time. That's the

985
01:01:35.960 --> 01:01:37.920
whole reason that Cash was at your kennel, right.

986
01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:42.480
You knew that, well, Rogan was staying in Beaufort a lot,

987
01:01:42.559 --> 01:01:43.880
but he was home a lot too.

988
01:01:43.960 --> 01:01:46.440
I didn't. I didn't know where Rogan was on a daily.

989
01:01:46.199 --> 01:01:52.039
Basis about keeping his dog Cash of the kennels when

990
01:01:52.039 --> 01:01:54.440
he was staying with his girlfriend and working down in Beaufort.

991
01:01:54.960 --> 01:01:57.320
Yes, he had asked me that, but I mean that

992
01:01:57.360 --> 01:02:03.360
had been some time before. I didn't know you making

993
01:02:03.400 --> 01:02:04.920
a big deal about this, mister Waters.

994
01:02:04.960 --> 01:02:09.079
But that particular night I didn't have a clue where

995
01:02:09.159 --> 01:02:12.519
Rogan was staying or not staying. I was trying to

996
01:02:12.559 --> 01:02:17.440
find somebody to come out there with me. I'd called Randy,

997
01:02:17.760 --> 01:02:18.880
I'd called John.

998
01:02:21.000 --> 01:02:24.920
And Rogan was the next best alternative. And Rogan is

999
01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:29.079
so close. I mean, Rogan, of all these kids that

1000
01:02:29.119 --> 01:02:34.880
you've heard Rogan giftson Roro is like a Rogan you

1001
01:02:35.000 --> 01:02:38.000
prefer when I call him. Rogan is truly like a

1002
01:02:38.079 --> 01:02:41.320
son to Maggie and I. And he was such a

1003
01:02:41.360 --> 01:02:43.679
good friend to Buster, and he was such a good

1004
01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:46.920
friend of Paul. And you've been through everything I.

1005
01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:50.280
Have, you'll see that two weeks or three weeks prior

1006
01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:54.519
to this, I ran out of gas when Bus and

1007
01:02:54.519 --> 01:02:58.840
Paul Paul weren't home, and Rogan's the person that I

1008
01:02:58.880 --> 01:02:59.960
called to bring me gas.

1009
01:03:00.519 --> 01:03:07.079
Okay, nobody suspeating in any of the rugging would have

1010
01:03:07.079 --> 01:03:07.480
helped you.

1011
01:03:09.199 --> 01:03:15.440
Keep playing around well when you walked up blood, any

1012
01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:20.679
other anything else? I mean there was somebody things, yes, sir,

1013
01:03:20.960 --> 01:03:23.519
I mean, like any other evidence of the lease of

1014
01:03:23.599 --> 01:03:25.000
the phone fell out of pocket.

1015
01:03:25.599 --> 01:03:27.960
But did you see anything else that.

1016
01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:31.719
Didn't belong or shouldn't belong or that was a part

1017
01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:32.440
of fall.

1018
01:03:34.320 --> 01:03:34.840
No, shirt.

1019
01:03:34.960 --> 01:03:36.480
Not no, not.

1020
01:03:39.440 --> 01:03:41.199
No shirt about Maggie.

1021
01:03:41.800 --> 01:03:42.320
No shirt.

1022
01:03:42.719 --> 01:03:48.480
You can't see anything of room. Now, what made you

1023
01:03:48.480 --> 01:03:49.320
come out here tonight?

1024
01:03:50.760 --> 01:03:54.599
I went to my mom's late stage Alsheimer's station. My

1025
01:03:54.719 --> 01:03:55.960
dad's in the hospital.

1026
01:03:57.800 --> 01:04:01.039
My mom gets anxious when she does. I went to

1027
01:04:01.119 --> 01:04:05.719
check on them and Maggie. Maggie's a dog lover, she

1028
01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:09.280
fools with the dogs, and I knew she'd gone to

1029
01:04:09.360 --> 01:04:09.800
the count.

1030
01:04:10.400 --> 01:04:11.360
I was at the house.

1031
01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:22.639
You just have to find that in the wake of this,

1032
01:04:23.679 --> 01:04:26.599
you didn't know what you said the law enforcement. That

1033
01:04:26.679 --> 01:04:27.519
was what you just said.

1034
01:04:29.440 --> 01:04:32.199
No, I mean, I know I know a lot of

1035
01:04:32.199 --> 01:04:34.400
what I said to law enforcement. But there's a lot

1036
01:04:34.440 --> 01:04:38.519
of things in looking back at this.

1037
01:04:38.639 --> 01:04:43.440
Video, for one, did I want one call? For one?

1038
01:04:43.719 --> 01:04:46.760
I mean, there's a lot of things that I didn't remember.

1039
01:04:47.440 --> 01:04:55.199
Okay, But right then and there, just not long into

1040
01:04:55.239 --> 01:05:04.079
this interview, made a conscious decision to why right there

1041
01:05:04.599 --> 01:05:08.599
play that again. You said I was at the house.

1042
01:05:14.119 --> 01:05:16.079
And I knew she'd gone to the camp.

1043
01:05:16.760 --> 01:05:17.679
I was at the house.

1044
01:05:18.920 --> 01:05:19.599
I left that out.

1045
01:05:20.880 --> 01:05:23.480
We play going to back it up?

1046
01:05:23.519 --> 01:05:23.760
Smore?

1047
01:05:24.039 --> 01:05:25.840
Well, yeah, we can keep listening to it.

1048
01:05:26.239 --> 01:05:32.440
Anything from what made you come out here at night?

1049
01:05:33.840 --> 01:05:37.440
I went to my mom's late stage all sammuspation.

1050
01:05:37.679 --> 01:05:42.840
My dad's in the hospital. My mom gets anxious when

1051
01:05:42.880 --> 01:05:47.000
she does. I went to check on them and Maggie.

1052
01:05:47.159 --> 01:05:48.320
Maggie is a dog lover.

1053
01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:52.280
She fools with the dogs, and I knew she'd gone

1054
01:05:52.320 --> 01:05:52.880
to the camp.

1055
01:05:53.519 --> 01:05:54.480
I was at the house.

1056
01:05:57.159 --> 01:05:59.119
You want to hear it again, No, sir, but I

1057
01:05:59.159 --> 01:06:01.679
don't you made a ancious decision to lie right there,

1058
01:06:01.760 --> 01:06:03.880
this early into an interview, sitting in the front seat.

1059
01:06:03.880 --> 01:06:04.280
Correct.

1060
01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:05.519
I don't believe.

1061
01:06:05.559 --> 01:06:08.039
So you didn't make a conscious decision to lie.

1062
01:06:08.199 --> 01:06:11.320
I don't believe that. I don't believe that was lying

1063
01:06:11.400 --> 01:06:12.079
at that point.

1064
01:06:12.800 --> 01:06:13.800
Okay, tell me why not?

1065
01:06:16.920 --> 01:06:19.079
Because Maggie had gone to the kennels and I was

1066
01:06:19.119 --> 01:06:19.679
at the house.

1067
01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:23.119
Okay, so you think you were being That was not

1068
01:06:23.159 --> 01:06:24.079
a lie at that point.

1069
01:06:24.440 --> 01:06:26.199
I don't believe.

1070
01:06:26.199 --> 01:06:28.519
So at what point did you decide to lie?

1071
01:06:28.719 --> 01:06:30.639
I'm not sure, but it was in that It was

1072
01:06:30.679 --> 01:06:32.800
in this interview. I believe that it was.

1073
01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:35.519
Okay, what's this interview where you're sitting in the front seat. Correct?

1074
01:06:35.800 --> 01:06:39.039
It is. You're not in custody, correct, I'm not in custody.

1075
01:06:39.239 --> 01:06:44.480
They're giving you water, letting me cheat Tobacca treating you politely.

1076
01:06:44.679 --> 01:06:46.599
Correct, they were treating me very politely.

1077
01:06:47.119 --> 01:06:49.360
What was it that they click when so you said

1078
01:06:49.559 --> 01:06:51.840
this interview that it collecked that that I'm a lie

1079
01:06:51.960 --> 01:06:53.639
about the most important fact that I know.

1080
01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:57.679
I'm not sure exactly when in it that I lied

1081
01:06:58.079 --> 01:06:59.480
decided to lie.

1082
01:06:59.159 --> 01:07:02.599
But I believe it was during this interview.

1083
01:07:03.639 --> 01:07:07.480
I believe all those things that I talked about, you know,

1084
01:07:08.679 --> 01:07:10.440
those things that have gone on, the things that.

1085
01:07:10.360 --> 01:07:11.360
People have said to me.

1086
01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:18.679
About don't talk to anybody without a lawyer. Partners all

1087
01:07:18.760 --> 01:07:20.719
told me that, or if a lot of my partners

1088
01:07:20.719 --> 01:07:25.280
told me that. My dear friend, Chief Alexander was one

1089
01:07:25.320 --> 01:07:27.360
who said that I overheard.

1090
01:07:27.920 --> 01:07:30.199
I believe it was Sheriff Hill. I'm not positive I

1091
01:07:30.239 --> 01:07:33.079
overheard him tell I believe Mark Baul or Gray Holmes

1092
01:07:33.159 --> 01:07:35.559
don't let him talk to anybody without a lawyer.

1093
01:07:35.880 --> 01:07:43.840
And what I believe is that based on my distrust

1094
01:07:43.880 --> 01:07:47.079
of sled and getting in that interview. And I'm not

1095
01:07:47.119 --> 01:07:49.119
positive about this, but I believe when he asked me,

1096
01:07:49.920 --> 01:07:53.199
you know, about my relationship with my wife and my son,

1097
01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:55.880
I believe that's when I decided to lie.

1098
01:07:56.239 --> 01:07:59.000
But I'm not the GSR too because that's what you

1099
01:07:59.079 --> 01:08:00.400
touched about to yesterday.

1100
01:08:00.679 --> 01:08:01.880
That certainly contributed.

1101
01:08:02.280 --> 01:08:05.079
And you're dope paranoia too, you said that as well.

1102
01:08:05.119 --> 01:08:12.039
Correct, Well, those things are what triggered the paranoia that started.

1103
01:08:13.239 --> 01:08:15.079
As my addiction evolved.

1104
01:08:15.679 --> 01:08:19.000
Right, So, you're.

1105
01:08:21.840 --> 01:08:24.960
An experienced lawyer and you've been a prosecutor, and you

1106
01:08:25.000 --> 01:08:27.119
took the advice of your law partners that you should

1107
01:08:27.119 --> 01:08:30.079
have a lawyer there as you read that as oh,

1108
01:08:30.119 --> 01:08:31.640
I should lie.

1109
01:08:31.920 --> 01:08:34.800
No, that's that's not That's not what that means, is it,

1110
01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:35.479
miss Vernock.

1111
01:08:36.199 --> 01:08:40.000
That's not You're not that's not an accurate statement what

1112
01:08:40.119 --> 01:08:41.159
you just said, mister Order.

1113
01:08:42.760 --> 01:08:46.680
I just repeated what you just said. You said was

1114
01:08:46.720 --> 01:08:49.800
one of the factors was your law partners, and now

1115
01:08:49.800 --> 01:08:54.000
you're bloming. Sheriff Hill and Greg Alexander told you that

1116
01:08:54.319 --> 01:08:56.600
you needed a lawyer before you talk to the police,

1117
01:08:56.840 --> 01:08:59.319
and you took that somehow is meaning I need to

1118
01:08:59.359 --> 01:09:01.640
lie as a lawyer and a prosecutor.

1119
01:09:01.760 --> 01:09:03.239
No, that's what you said, mister Waters.

1120
01:09:03.239 --> 01:09:07.359
But I mischaracterizing it from your perspective, mister Murdock, because

1121
01:09:07.359 --> 01:09:10.039
I think that's then that what you've heard isn't not

1122
01:09:10.079 --> 01:09:10.640
what you just said.

1123
01:09:10.720 --> 01:09:12.960
Excuse me, No, sir, that's not what I said.

1124
01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:13.960
That's say it again.

1125
01:09:14.439 --> 01:09:16.640
I believe those guys were trying to help me. I

1126
01:09:16.680 --> 01:09:19.199
believe they cared about me. I believe they thought that

1127
01:09:19.319 --> 01:09:24.720
I was in a condition such that I shouldn't talk

1128
01:09:24.760 --> 01:09:25.479
to anybody.

1129
01:09:26.239 --> 01:09:31.520
I mean, I mean those guys had to prop me up,

1130
01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:36.119
help me get myself together, just to be able to

1131
01:09:36.119 --> 01:09:38.159
go talk to David Owens. I mean, they were trying

1132
01:09:38.199 --> 01:09:40.439
to help me. But before that, that was just.

1133
01:09:40.520 --> 01:09:45.560
One of the many things that I believe led to

1134
01:09:45.640 --> 01:09:52.279
that situation, sitting in there where those paranoid thoughts came

1135
01:09:52.319 --> 01:09:57.279
to me, them talking about not talking to anybody without

1136
01:09:57.319 --> 01:10:04.000
a lawyer, Brian Varona Doe checking my hands, the fact

1137
01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:07.760
that I got a pocket full of pills in my pocket.

1138
01:10:08.199 --> 01:10:08.319
Uh.

1139
01:10:09.079 --> 01:10:17.520
I was the person who found Maggie and Paul, my

1140
01:10:17.720 --> 01:10:25.079
distrust for Sled. All of those factors combined and made

1141
01:10:25.159 --> 01:10:27.680
me decide to lie. I also know him asking me

1142
01:10:27.840 --> 01:10:35.800
about Maggie and Paul Paul contributed to that paranoia. All

1143
01:10:35.840 --> 01:10:38.079
I'm saying is, I'm not disputing that I lied. I'm

1144
01:10:38.119 --> 01:10:42.560
just saying, at this point, you're saying I made a

1145
01:10:42.600 --> 01:10:46.560
conscious decision to lie here and I'm saying, I don't

1146
01:10:46.600 --> 01:10:48.920
think I made a conscious decision right there.

1147
01:10:50.720 --> 01:10:51.319
I believe so.

1148
01:10:51.600 --> 01:10:55.199
Had you already had your GSR down at this point, yes, sir, okay,

1149
01:10:55.680 --> 01:10:57.720
I had, and you already talked to your law partners

1150
01:10:57.720 --> 01:11:01.199
and talked to and heard sherif Phil Now you're I'm

1151
01:11:01.239 --> 01:11:04.840
not even know Sheph Alexander now as well for your lives.

1152
01:11:05.039 --> 01:11:06.880
No, mister Waters, I'm just out of that one.

1153
01:11:06.880 --> 01:11:08.640
You didn't say that yesterday, and you just out of

1154
01:11:08.720 --> 01:11:09.039
that one.

1155
01:11:09.560 --> 01:11:15.439
Please be given an opportunity answer the question objection.

1156
01:11:19.680 --> 01:11:21.199
Confess her last answer.

1157
01:11:23.000 --> 01:11:28.159
Mister Waters, I'm not blaming anybody. I accept full responsibility

1158
01:11:28.279 --> 01:11:31.560
for what I did. What I'm saying is what I

1159
01:11:31.600 --> 01:11:37.960
believe contributed to me doing that and the reason why

1160
01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:40.079
I did that. I think those folks were trying to

1161
01:11:40.119 --> 01:11:46.840
help me, So I don't blame them.

1162
01:11:46.880 --> 01:11:48.319
I think they were worried about me.

1163
01:11:49.800 --> 01:11:51.720
I don't dispute that. But you're saying you took that

1164
01:11:51.840 --> 01:11:53.479
advice as I need to lie.

1165
01:11:53.920 --> 01:11:57.479
Now, what you're doing is you're isolating one single.

1166
01:11:57.119 --> 01:11:59.720
Thing, isolating anything. I've mentioned all the factors. You've added

1167
01:11:59.720 --> 01:12:01.319
some new ones, but I mentioned all the factors that

1168
01:12:01.359 --> 01:12:03.560
you're blaming a lie.

1169
01:12:03.720 --> 01:12:04.560
That's not what you did.

1170
01:12:04.560 --> 01:12:07.800
What you asked me is you said, I took my

1171
01:12:07.880 --> 01:12:11.159
partners telling me not to talk to somebody without a

1172
01:12:11.239 --> 01:12:15.520
lawyer as a reason to lie. And that's an inaccurate statement.

1173
01:12:15.840 --> 01:12:20.000
That was one of the factors that went into a

1174
01:12:20.079 --> 01:12:23.600
series of hang on, mister orders, a series of events,

1175
01:12:24.039 --> 01:12:28.399
all right, that caused me to have.

1176
01:12:29.760 --> 01:12:34.079
Paranoid thinking. All right, and then I lied.

1177
01:12:36.199 --> 01:12:38.520
All right, But at some point it happened during this

1178
01:12:38.680 --> 01:12:41.439
interview that you you crossed over. You're saying that you

1179
01:12:41.520 --> 01:12:45.000
came into this interview intending to be fully disclosing to everything,

1180
01:12:45.199 --> 01:12:47.880
and something happened in this interview that sent you over

1181
01:12:47.920 --> 01:12:49.880
the edge, and you said, hey, let me lie about

1182
01:12:49.920 --> 01:12:52.279
the last time I saw my wife and child A

1183
01:12:52.319 --> 01:12:53.760
lot I supposed to be great to me.

1184
01:12:55.560 --> 01:12:59.399
I certainly didn't go into that interview, I believe, intending

1185
01:12:59.439 --> 01:13:02.279
to loss for words. I wasn't capable at that point

1186
01:13:02.319 --> 01:13:08.039
in time of planning anything or thinking through anything.

1187
01:13:08.239 --> 01:13:10.239
So somehow during this interview, all of a sudden, those

1188
01:13:10.279 --> 01:13:12.039
senses came to you to plan and do that.

1189
01:13:16.199 --> 01:13:21.600
When I got to thinking in that paranoid way that normally,

1190
01:13:22.560 --> 01:13:26.560
as I said, I mean I could take a deep

1191
01:13:26.600 --> 01:13:27.920
breath and make it go away.

1192
01:13:28.560 --> 01:13:31.079
I never had a situation.

1193
01:13:30.680 --> 01:13:35.000
Where it lasted more than a matter of seconds. That night,

1194
01:13:37.840 --> 01:13:44.560
after all those things had happened, it didn't go away

1195
01:13:45.279 --> 01:13:51.279
in a matter of seconds, and I decided to lie.

1196
01:13:51.600 --> 01:13:54.800
Now, are y'all like me at this point? Can you

1197
01:13:54.800 --> 01:13:58.319
hear it in his voice? Alec is getting more and

1198
01:13:58.479 --> 01:14:04.920
more nervous on that stand now, to be sure, he's

1199
01:14:05.199 --> 01:14:08.239
practiced what he is going to say regarding why he

1200
01:14:08.439 --> 01:14:12.800
lied a thousand times in his head. But the thing

1201
01:14:12.840 --> 01:14:17.039
he didn't prepare for, could not prepare for, was the

1202
01:14:17.159 --> 01:14:21.880
hammering that Waters was laying down on him. He was

1203
01:14:21.920 --> 01:14:30.079
simply getting out litigated and outsmarted by Waters. Awesome lawyer

1204
01:14:30.199 --> 01:14:33.119
work right there, So we'll continue.

1205
01:14:33.279 --> 01:14:36.000
Those are the clothes that you ultimately gave to Dave Owen?

1206
01:14:36.119 --> 01:14:36.560
Is that right?

1207
01:14:37.960 --> 01:14:40.079
Those are the clothes I gave to David Owens.

1208
01:14:40.760 --> 01:14:43.560
At what point did you get you be able to

1209
01:14:43.640 --> 01:14:45.960
chuck the pills you say? Or in your pocket? When

1210
01:14:46.000 --> 01:14:46.439
did you do that?

1211
01:14:47.239 --> 01:14:49.079
When I was in my bedroom and you're.

1212
01:14:49.000 --> 01:14:50.880
In the bedroom. Yes, sir, where's Puddom?

1213
01:14:52.000 --> 01:14:53.960
I'm not sure where I put him? But ultimately they

1214
01:14:53.960 --> 01:14:55.279
would have gone in my suitcase.

1215
01:14:56.479 --> 01:14:58.039
So that's when you did it. Do you have a

1216
01:14:58.079 --> 01:14:59.239
specific recollection of that.

1217
01:14:59.439 --> 01:15:01.960
No, I don't. I just knowed I took them out

1218
01:15:01.960 --> 01:15:02.520
of my pocket.

1219
01:15:02.720 --> 01:15:05.359
If we watched this whole video, you think you could.

1220
01:15:05.399 --> 01:15:06.680
If we just watch the whole thing, you think you

1221
01:15:06.680 --> 01:15:09.800
can say, Okay, that's the moment where my senses came

1222
01:15:09.840 --> 01:15:11.439
to me and I decided I was going to tell

1223
01:15:11.479 --> 01:15:13.439
this major lie.

1224
01:15:14.319 --> 01:15:17.399
I don't know did it happened like that, but I

1225
01:15:17.479 --> 01:15:19.399
mean I may be able to tell you some things

1226
01:15:19.439 --> 01:15:20.760
that contributed to it.

1227
01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:22.920
We watched the whole thing, We've heard that.

1228
01:15:25.680 --> 01:15:32.000
I just want to be clearer though, at least on

1229
01:15:32.079 --> 01:15:37.399
this one. At some point during this interview, when you

1230
01:15:37.439 --> 01:15:44.760
were able to plan your lie about this event and

1231
01:15:44.840 --> 01:15:48.720
you made that decision, But it wasn't what we just played.

1232
01:15:48.720 --> 01:15:50.520
There wasn't yet. There was some point after that.

1233
01:15:52.119 --> 01:15:53.560
I don't think that's a lie. Right.

1234
01:15:53.600 --> 01:15:56.720
There is the reason why I don't think that has

1235
01:15:56.720 --> 01:15:59.359
occurred before this, because what I'm saying there.

1236
01:16:01.159 --> 01:16:04.880
I believe to be truthful. And I know this.

1237
01:16:05.239 --> 01:16:09.439
I know for a fact that when David Owens asked

1238
01:16:09.479 --> 01:16:12.119
me about my relationship with my wife and my child,

1239
01:16:12.239 --> 01:16:15.119
I know that that played a role in that. And

1240
01:16:15.199 --> 01:16:19.920
I believe that, and I may be wrong, but I

1241
01:16:19.960 --> 01:16:21.640
believe that this was before that.

1242
01:16:22.119 --> 01:16:24.239
You ever heard the expression not telling the whole truth

1243
01:16:24.359 --> 01:16:25.359
is the same as telling a lie.

1244
01:16:25.560 --> 01:16:26.119
Sure I have.

1245
01:16:29.159 --> 01:16:33.600
That's something you understood as a lawyer and a prosecutor.

1246
01:16:35.079 --> 01:16:39.760
Yes, all right, just work, Just take your full day

1247
01:16:39.760 --> 01:16:43.239
form please, Richard Alexander Murder.

1248
01:16:48.159 --> 01:16:49.479
And it's doing the last thing so.

1249
01:16:49.520 --> 01:16:54.560
That they correct am you are the A U G H.

1250
01:16:56.439 --> 01:17:02.680
And you do about Alec, yes, sir, and David Earth

1251
01:17:02.680 --> 01:17:03.399
will start up.

1252
01:17:04.880 --> 01:17:10.279
May twenty seven, nineteen sixty eight. We'll give some number

1253
01:17:10.279 --> 01:17:14.199
for you eight zero three nine four.

1254
01:17:14.079 --> 01:17:25.520
Two one two two seven and so what was your name? Yeah?

1255
01:17:25.840 --> 01:17:32.359
Then all right, as I stated, I'm David Owen and

1256
01:17:32.479 --> 01:17:34.439
the floor writing with cal County.

1257
01:17:34.439 --> 01:17:38.960
I'm a slid. I hate to have to do this.

1258
01:17:39.119 --> 01:17:39.720
I understand.

1259
01:17:39.880 --> 01:17:44.680
I totally understand. So you don't. You don't have any

1260
01:17:44.720 --> 01:17:45.720
problem with it.

1261
01:17:46.159 --> 01:17:56.760
So you hadn't decided to lie right there?

1262
01:17:57.760 --> 01:18:02.560
Right, I don't believe.

1263
01:18:02.600 --> 01:18:09.560
So you told David Owen that you understood that he

1264
01:18:09.600 --> 01:18:11.439
had to ask questions and you do what you need

1265
01:18:11.479 --> 01:18:12.039
to do, right.

1266
01:18:12.359 --> 01:18:15.880
It is what I told him talking about at what

1267
01:18:16.039 --> 01:18:18.960
point during that interview in the car with Dave Owen

1268
01:18:19.000 --> 01:18:24.079
that you decided to start lying about the murders of

1269
01:18:24.119 --> 01:18:24.840
your wife and son.

1270
01:18:25.920 --> 01:18:29.720
I'm gonna pick up this video real quick now, gonna

1271
01:18:29.720 --> 01:18:33.600
play the whole thing, but I'm gonna start from two

1272
01:18:33.600 --> 01:18:34.720
minutes and nine seconds.

1273
01:18:38.159 --> 01:18:39.800
Just start to talk. Take your child.

1274
01:18:41.520 --> 01:18:44.079
Like when I came back here, wet clean it up,

1275
01:18:44.119 --> 01:18:44.920
little love, And I.

1276
01:18:44.840 --> 01:18:47.560
Could see him, and you know, I knew.

1277
01:18:47.359 --> 01:18:50.159
Some one little bad. I ran out. I know it

1278
01:18:50.239 --> 01:18:57.000
was really bad, some little boy over there. I see it.

1279
01:18:56.840 --> 01:19:32.720
Was and I could see his brain. Yeah, and I

1280
01:19:32.800 --> 01:19:37.479
ran over the maggot. Actually, I think I tried to

1281
01:19:37.520 --> 01:19:44.239
turn Paul over first. Uh, you know, I tried to

1282
01:19:44.279 --> 01:19:47.520
turn him over, and I don't know I figured it out.

1283
01:19:50.000 --> 01:19:52.399
Hissel phone popped out of his pocket.

1284
01:19:52.079 --> 01:19:56.760
I started to try to do something with it, thinking maybe,

1285
01:19:56.840 --> 01:20:00.720
but then I put it back down really quickly times

1286
01:20:00.760 --> 01:20:03.600
and I went to my wife, and I.

1287
01:20:05.399 --> 01:20:14.159
Mean I could see, did you touch Megan?

1288
01:20:14.239 --> 01:20:14.359
All?

1289
01:20:14.520 --> 01:20:16.079
I did. I touched them both.

1290
01:20:16.640 --> 01:20:19.039
I tried to take I mean I tried to do

1291
01:20:19.079 --> 01:20:22.439
it as limited as possible, but I tried to take

1292
01:20:22.520 --> 01:20:31.920
their talks on both of them.

1293
01:20:28.479 --> 01:20:33.840
And you know, I called nine one one pretty much

1294
01:20:33.920 --> 01:20:35.479
right away, and.

1295
01:20:37.359 --> 01:20:38.359
She was very good.

1296
01:20:42.399 --> 01:20:45.840
Mh I talked to her.

1297
01:20:46.600 --> 01:20:48.359
I told her I was going to get off the

1298
01:20:48.359 --> 01:20:49.800
phone to call some family.

1299
01:20:51.640 --> 01:20:52.319
I did that.

1300
01:20:55.079 --> 01:21:01.680
And mm hmmm, Amester, did you call him? Call my

1301
01:21:01.720 --> 01:21:02.279
brother Ed?

1302
01:21:03.800 --> 01:21:11.279
And I called my brother John, and I tried to

1303
01:21:11.319 --> 01:21:14.439
call him little boy, real good friends right around the

1304
01:21:14.439 --> 01:21:23.000
corners from here, But I didn't get him.

1305
01:21:23.399 --> 01:21:27.960
What all was around Paul when he walked up blind?

1306
01:21:29.439 --> 01:21:35.399
Any any other anything else? I mean that it was somebody, Yes, sir, I.

1307
01:21:35.359 --> 01:21:37.960
Mean like any other evidence. I know you set the

1308
01:21:37.960 --> 01:21:40.279
store and fell out of the pocket, But did you

1309
01:21:40.359 --> 01:21:44.319
see anything else that didn't belong or shouldn't belong or

1310
01:21:45.159 --> 01:21:46.479
that wasn't part of all?

1311
01:21:48.640 --> 01:21:50.840
No, sir, not no, not.

1312
01:21:53.720 --> 01:21:53.800
No.

1313
01:21:53.960 --> 01:21:58.199
Sure How about Maddie, No, sir, you didn't see anything around?

1314
01:21:58.199 --> 01:21:58.319
Now?

1315
01:22:02.199 --> 01:22:03.600
What made you come out here to night?

1316
01:22:05.039 --> 01:22:08.680
I went to my mom's Lake Stage Alzheimer's station.

1317
01:22:08.880 --> 01:22:10.279
My dad's in the hospital.

1318
01:22:12.079 --> 01:22:15.319
My mom gets anxious when she does. I went to

1319
01:22:15.399 --> 01:22:19.560
check on them and Maggie. Maggie used the dog loved

1320
01:22:19.920 --> 01:22:23.479
she fools with the dogs, and I knew she'd gone

1321
01:22:23.520 --> 01:22:24.079
to the count.

1322
01:22:24.720 --> 01:22:25.640
I was at the house.

1323
01:22:26.720 --> 01:22:28.560
Just to be clear, you say you hadn't made the

1324
01:22:28.560 --> 01:22:30.880
conscious decision to start lying about your wife and sons

1325
01:22:30.960 --> 01:22:36.600
murder right there. Correct, I don't believe, So okay, let's

1326
01:22:36.600 --> 01:22:37.479
continue on, mister.

1327
01:22:37.960 --> 01:22:43.039
I can't. I can't tell you exactly when that decision occurred.

1328
01:22:43.880 --> 01:22:47.560
Yeah, you can't describe to the jury the moment you

1329
01:22:47.640 --> 01:22:50.520
decided to lie about your wife's son and your wife

1330
01:22:50.560 --> 01:22:51.279
and son's murder.

1331
01:22:54.159 --> 01:22:56.680
I can't tell you exactly when that moment occurred.

1332
01:22:58.760 --> 01:22:59.479
I left the house.

1333
01:22:59.520 --> 01:23:02.399
I went sud say earlier that when David O when

1334
01:23:02.479 --> 01:23:07.239
asked you about your relationships, that was a tricker point, right, Well,

1335
01:23:07.279 --> 01:23:07.680
that was.

1336
01:23:07.600 --> 01:23:09.079
Certainly one of the things that.

1337
01:23:10.720 --> 01:23:15.760
Contributed or made me paranoid. Now you know there were

1338
01:23:15.760 --> 01:23:21.880
already things that had gone on that that that occurred,

1339
01:23:22.520 --> 01:23:27.199
as I said, that put me in that mindset.

1340
01:23:27.800 --> 01:23:32.239
But exactly when I decided to lie by that, I

1341
01:23:32.279 --> 01:23:33.119
can't tell you.

1342
01:23:34.000 --> 01:23:37.800
So the things again, you talked about your your dope paranoia,

1343
01:23:38.800 --> 01:23:43.640
the fact they taken GSR, and you talked about the

1344
01:23:43.720 --> 01:23:47.880
advice of your law partners and Sheriff Hill and Greg Alexander,

1345
01:23:48.640 --> 01:23:52.039
and then you talked about your distrust of sled. Somehow

1346
01:23:52.039 --> 01:23:55.159
from this the circumstances and demeanor of this interview right here.

1347
01:23:55.479 --> 01:23:58.960
Correct, You know, my distrust from Slid didn't arise from

1348
01:23:59.279 --> 01:24:05.000
this interview. My distrust for Sled arose from a couple

1349
01:24:05.000 --> 01:24:08.239
of things, and it really several things.

1350
01:24:08.079 --> 01:24:15.720
It arose from the way they had been involved in.

1351
01:24:16.560 --> 01:24:22.800
SLED had been involved in the investigation into Paul's criminal charges,

1352
01:24:23.520 --> 01:24:28.600
and they had been involved in there was an issue

1353
01:24:28.880 --> 01:24:32.920
that had gone on with some rumors about Busher and Paul.

1354
01:24:33.000 --> 01:24:40.560
They had been involved in that where you know Busher

1355
01:24:40.680 --> 01:24:41.479
North Paul had.

1356
01:24:41.399 --> 01:24:46.039
Anything to do with what I'm talking about, and Sled

1357
01:24:46.079 --> 01:24:48.720
would never said, never said that, even though they told

1358
01:24:48.720 --> 01:24:51.760
the lawyer that they never say that. And there had

1359
01:24:51.800 --> 01:24:57.800
been another incident where SLED had charged Dreg Alexander, my

1360
01:24:57.800 --> 01:24:58.600
my friend.

1361
01:24:58.640 --> 01:25:00.640
In this case, they shim.

1362
01:25:02.479 --> 01:25:04.880
And in fact I thought the agent that was involved

1363
01:25:04.920 --> 01:25:08.880
in that was David Owen. But the charges against Greg

1364
01:25:08.960 --> 01:25:16.279
Alexander were so they were so wrong that my dad

1365
01:25:16.319 --> 01:25:19.199
and I made a conscious decision, even though he was

1366
01:25:19.239 --> 01:25:22.319
a career prosecutor, made a decision to go to the

1367
01:25:22.359 --> 01:25:28.960
courthouse and sit with Greg Alexander while his trial went

1368
01:25:29.000 --> 01:25:30.000
on because.

1369
01:25:31.880 --> 01:25:34.640
Ten years ago, right, it was a while back, you know,

1370
01:25:35.680 --> 01:25:37.319
you don't know if Dave Owen was a slide ten

1371
01:25:37.399 --> 01:25:38.039
years ago.

1372
01:25:38.359 --> 01:25:42.199
No, No, I checked on that, because that night the

1373
01:25:42.199 --> 01:25:46.000
officer who was involved in that case and bringing clearly

1374
01:25:46.119 --> 01:25:48.960
manufactured charges against Greg Alexander.

1375
01:25:49.920 --> 01:25:51.760
Before you sat down from this interview, you were asking

1376
01:25:51.800 --> 01:25:55.399
somebody about whether or not about Greg Alexander ten years

1377
01:25:55.399 --> 01:25:56.760
ago and the waken what had occurred.

1378
01:25:56.800 --> 01:25:58.079
Oh no, I didn't ask anybody.

1379
01:25:58.119 --> 01:26:00.279
Okay, So that wasn't what you were assion you were

1380
01:26:00.279 --> 01:26:01.000
sitting in this card.

1381
01:26:01.199 --> 01:26:02.239
No, I wasn't discussing that.

1382
01:26:02.279 --> 01:26:04.680
I'm miss telling you that I thought David Owen was

1383
01:26:04.720 --> 01:26:08.319
the same agent that was involved in that case. Now

1384
01:26:08.960 --> 01:26:11.119
I learned later because I checked on it.

1385
01:26:11.359 --> 01:26:13.760
I learned later that it was a different David sled

1386
01:26:13.840 --> 01:26:17.359
agent first named David, with a different last name.

1387
01:26:17.880 --> 01:26:20.399
I learned that later. I'm just saying that was all

1388
01:26:20.520 --> 01:26:22.119
part of that process.

1389
01:26:21.720 --> 01:26:22.760
Going on in my mind.

1390
01:26:22.840 --> 01:26:25.039
So you're saying that you're sitting here right now thinking

1391
01:26:25.079 --> 01:26:27.720
that this Dave Owen, in this circumstances and demeanor of

1392
01:26:27.720 --> 01:26:30.319
this interview, you're thinking that guy had been involved in

1393
01:26:30.359 --> 01:26:33.800
the prosecution or investigation of your friend ten years ago.

1394
01:26:34.079 --> 01:26:36.399
I did, Okay, So here's a new one. You just

1395
01:26:36.399 --> 01:26:36.920
mentioned us.

1396
01:26:36.960 --> 01:26:38.560
Correct, No, that's not a new one.

1397
01:26:39.319 --> 01:26:41.800
That's part of the circumstances are new. I mean, I'm

1398
01:26:42.000 --> 01:26:45.680
fairly specific, don't you think when I mean, the story

1399
01:26:45.760 --> 01:26:46.760
keeps evolving, keep going.

1400
01:26:47.159 --> 01:26:49.479
Now you asked me about this, mister Owen.

1401
01:26:49.520 --> 01:26:52.079
What I said is part of this whole I mean,

1402
01:26:52.760 --> 01:26:56.520
mister Waters, the whole part of this whole process involved

1403
01:26:57.079 --> 01:26:58.239
my distrust for Sled.

1404
01:26:58.720 --> 01:27:01.560
That was part of a big part of my distrust

1405
01:27:01.640 --> 01:27:02.399
for sledg.

1406
01:27:02.920 --> 01:27:04.640
You know, we can all see it on your face

1407
01:27:04.640 --> 01:27:05.600
in this interview, can't we.

1408
01:27:06.840 --> 01:27:07.520
I don't know.

1409
01:27:10.239 --> 01:27:11.840
But you said and when what you just said a

1410
01:27:11.840 --> 01:27:14.640
little bit ago, that wasn't the lie. That wasn't conscious

1411
01:27:14.680 --> 01:27:16.239
decision yet, so let's keep doing it.

1412
01:27:16.399 --> 01:27:18.520
No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying I don't believe

1413
01:27:18.560 --> 01:27:22.479
that it was. I don't know exactly when I made

1414
01:27:22.479 --> 01:27:25.079
the decision to lie about.

1415
01:27:24.800 --> 01:27:26.840
That, all right, all right, if you say it, let

1416
01:27:26.880 --> 01:27:28.399
me know. Okay, Cat for.

1417
01:27:32.479 --> 01:27:37.479
Just a little while, tried to call her, laugh, tested her,

1418
01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:38.800
no response.

1419
01:27:46.640 --> 01:27:50.279
When I got back to the house, the house was obviously.

1420
01:27:49.840 --> 01:27:52.319
Nobody was in there. So see if they're still up

1421
01:27:52.359 --> 01:27:56.720
fears fooling around, Paul's gonna be getting set up to

1422
01:27:56.840 --> 01:28:00.720
plant or sunflowers, seeds got sprayed and and he was

1423
01:28:01.239 --> 01:28:05.760
receiver and to do the plant the sunlight receipts. So

1424
01:28:06.399 --> 01:28:10.800
I came back up here and drove up and saw.

1425
01:28:21.960 --> 01:28:24.119
Had Maggie and Paul can argue on it or anything?

1426
01:28:25.800 --> 01:28:28.600
What was their relationship like? Wonderful, wonderful?

1427
01:28:29.359 --> 01:28:30.039
How about yours?

1428
01:28:30.119 --> 01:28:31.359
Maggie's wonderful?

1429
01:28:32.319 --> 01:28:34.960
I mean, I'm sure we had little things here and there,

1430
01:28:35.039 --> 01:28:37.640
but we had a wonderful, wonderful relationship.

1431
01:28:39.239 --> 01:28:41.279
Yours of Paul's relationship.

1432
01:28:41.359 --> 01:28:42.399
As good as it could be.

1433
01:28:45.760 --> 01:28:46.680
That was Paul.

1434
01:28:48.720 --> 01:28:49.800
Twenty two.

1435
01:28:50.680 --> 01:28:52.560
So that was the moment right there, with that line

1436
01:28:52.560 --> 01:28:56.720
of questioning, just ask some very general questions about your relationship.

1437
01:28:58.399 --> 01:29:00.359
You mentioned that before then you, mister Murray, is that

1438
01:29:00.479 --> 01:29:03.119
the moment right there? Is that the look on your

1439
01:29:03.119 --> 01:29:05.439
face when you decide to lie about an important fact

1440
01:29:05.479 --> 01:29:07.640
in your wife and son's murder.

1441
01:29:08.760 --> 01:29:11.279
I don't know, as I said, mister Waters, I don't

1442
01:29:11.319 --> 01:29:13.840
know the exact point that I made that decision.

1443
01:29:14.520 --> 01:29:19.560
Mentioned that very exchange is somehow triggering you to lie

1444
01:29:20.199 --> 01:29:22.439
about the last time you saw them a line.

1445
01:29:22.600 --> 01:29:26.159
Now, I'm not saying that that's what made me lie

1446
01:29:26.239 --> 01:29:31.960
I'm saying this whole set of circumstances caused me to

1447
01:29:32.000 --> 01:29:38.000
be in a state where I had paranoid thoughts. Okay

1448
01:29:39.560 --> 01:29:43.239
that normally, mister Waters, I could take a deep breath

1449
01:29:43.399 --> 01:29:47.800
and make go away in a second or two seconds

1450
01:29:48.560 --> 01:29:52.800
or three seconds at the most, and on this night,

1451
01:29:55.520 --> 01:30:03.319
I wasn't able to do that. But all of those

1452
01:30:03.640 --> 01:30:07.600
things that I mentioned I believe contributed to that.

1453
01:30:08.079 --> 01:30:10.560
Okay, any more you want to add now, so you

1454
01:30:10.680 --> 01:30:12.159
keep adding them.

1455
01:30:12.239 --> 01:30:13.920
I'm glad to answer any question you have.

1456
01:30:14.079 --> 01:30:16.479
Well, I mean I'm asking you. I mean, the factors

1457
01:30:16.479 --> 01:30:19.319
are gone from yesterday to today, and now even after lunch,

1458
01:30:19.319 --> 01:30:21.239
we've got some new ones. So anything else you want

1459
01:30:21.239 --> 01:30:24.800
to add right now as to factors.

1460
01:30:25.479 --> 01:30:28.399
As far as I don't believe that I've added any

1461
01:30:28.439 --> 01:30:35.920
new factors, I believe that's what I said yesterday.

1462
01:30:36.560 --> 01:30:39.720
All Right.

1463
01:30:44.159 --> 01:30:47.239
I've explained some of those factors because of your questions,

1464
01:30:47.479 --> 01:30:49.479
but I don't believe I've added any factors.

1465
01:30:50.000 --> 01:30:54.479
Okay, all right, let me move this forward just a

1466
01:30:54.520 --> 01:30:54.920
little bit.

1467
01:30:56.439 --> 01:31:03.439
Oh just so, most of this was stuff from.

1468
01:31:07.520 --> 01:31:09.479
Yeah couple on but not.

1469
01:31:14.239 --> 01:31:17.039
Yesterday in great detail about the boat case which you

1470
01:31:17.079 --> 01:31:20.159
brought up on the nine one one call and to

1471
01:31:20.439 --> 01:31:23.079
Daniel Green. Then, of course in this first interview, correct,

1472
01:31:23.960 --> 01:31:28.800
I did mention the boat wreck, all right, and you described.

1473
01:31:31.199 --> 01:31:31.279
That.

1474
01:31:32.039 --> 01:31:33.680
Do you remember what you said in this interview about

1475
01:31:33.720 --> 01:31:37.439
the boat rack? No, specifically specifically the other people involved

1476
01:31:37.439 --> 01:31:41.319
in the boat rack. You don't remember specifically? Do you

1477
01:31:41.359 --> 01:31:42.239
remember specifically?

1478
01:31:42.239 --> 01:31:44.239
I guess you said, now I remember talking about the

1479
01:31:44.279 --> 01:31:47.920
boat wreck, and did I talked about the boat wreck?

1480
01:31:47.960 --> 01:31:48.359
All right?

1481
01:31:48.600 --> 01:31:51.119
Well, I'm gonna play now from seventeen fourteen.

1482
01:31:51.520 --> 01:31:55.439
Mm hmm direct threats between any of the people on

1483
01:31:55.600 --> 01:31:58.680
the boat specifically, but I do think there's there a

1484
01:31:59.600 --> 01:32:03.319
small amount of yep yeap between a couple of them,

1485
01:32:03.359 --> 01:32:04.399
but not recently.

1486
01:32:04.520 --> 01:32:07.520
Okay, well it was the.

1487
01:32:07.600 --> 01:32:09.520
Term you use for that small.

1488
01:32:09.199 --> 01:32:10.119
Amount ye yet.

1489
01:32:10.600 --> 01:32:13.479
Yeah, And just to be clear, mister Waters, there was

1490
01:32:13.680 --> 01:32:16.479
never ever a point in time where I thought that

1491
01:32:16.520 --> 01:32:19.199
the people that were involved in the boat wreck.

1492
01:32:19.520 --> 01:32:23.279
Did this to Paul, Paul and Maggie. I've never thought that.

1493
01:32:23.880 --> 01:32:27.840
All right, I never thought that. But it's literally one

1494
01:32:27.880 --> 01:32:29.399
of the first things that you said out of the

1495
01:32:29.479 --> 01:32:30.239
nine one one call.

1496
01:32:30.880 --> 01:32:32.159
No, that's not what I said.

1497
01:32:32.399 --> 01:32:36.520
I never, ever, ever, under any point in time, believed

1498
01:32:36.520 --> 01:32:39.359
that those kids that were riding in that boat, or

1499
01:32:39.399 --> 01:32:43.039
their parents, or their parents or their families. I didn't

1500
01:32:43.079 --> 01:32:45.600
believe that any of the families the people that were

1501
01:32:45.680 --> 01:32:48.479
involved in the boat wreck had anything to do with

1502
01:32:48.560 --> 01:32:50.920
hurting Maggie and Paul. But I can tell you that

1503
01:32:51.039 --> 01:32:53.840
at that time, and as I sit here today, that.

1504
01:32:53.880 --> 01:32:58.640
I believed that boat wreck is the reason why Paul, Paul,

1505
01:32:58.680 --> 01:33:02.560
and Maggie were killed. And I believe.

1506
01:33:02.319 --> 01:33:05.680
That there was random vigilantes, the five two Vangilanes.

1507
01:33:07.039 --> 01:33:09.760
Now what I believe, mister Waters is I believe that

1508
01:33:10.720 --> 01:33:22.399
when Paul was charged criminally, there were so many leaks,

1509
01:33:26.039 --> 01:33:34.920
half truths, half reports, half statements, partial information, misrepresentations of

1510
01:33:35.000 --> 01:33:39.000
Paul that ended up in the media all the time.

1511
01:33:40.680 --> 01:33:45.800
And when I tell you, the social media response that

1512
01:33:45.960 --> 01:33:46.880
came from that.

1513
01:33:48.560 --> 01:33:51.600
Was vile. The things that were said about what they

1514
01:33:51.600 --> 01:33:53.960
would do to Papa, they were so over the top.

1515
01:33:55.520 --> 01:33:59.840
That nobody would believe anybody would get on social media

1516
01:33:59.880 --> 01:34:06.199
and do that. But I believe then and I believe today,

1517
01:34:06.880 --> 01:34:14.279
that the wrong person, the wrong person saw and read that,

1518
01:34:17.640 --> 01:34:22.079
because I can tell you for the fact.

1519
01:34:22.880 --> 01:34:27.960
That the person or people who did what I saw

1520
01:34:29.239 --> 01:34:36.600
on June seventh, they hated Paul murdered, and they had

1521
01:34:36.720 --> 01:34:41.319
anger in their heart, and that is the only, the

1522
01:34:41.520 --> 01:34:45.039
only reason that somebody could be mad at Paul. Paul

1523
01:34:45.159 --> 01:34:46.720
liked that and hate him like that.

1524
01:34:47.239 --> 01:34:49.840
Got all right, So we've got now.

1525
01:34:51.119 --> 01:34:53.560
But that's why I did then believe it was the

1526
01:34:53.600 --> 01:34:56.239
boat rack, and I believe now that the boat rack.

1527
01:34:56.359 --> 01:34:58.000
All right, So we had got nothing to do with it.

1528
01:34:57.960 --> 01:35:01.640
All right, So we've got random because of the boat wreck.

1529
01:35:02.079 --> 01:35:04.159
Now I don't know that they're random vigilantes.

1530
01:35:04.359 --> 01:35:06.119
Well, you just said it wasn't the family or the

1531
01:35:06.199 --> 01:35:08.039
kid or there are the kids or the family of

1532
01:35:08.119 --> 01:35:10.439
the other kids in the boat right footbool, So you're

1533
01:35:10.479 --> 01:35:12.680
saying as somebody off of social media and you don't

1534
01:35:12.680 --> 01:35:14.920
have any of the evidence of that. Dude, you just

1535
01:35:14.960 --> 01:35:17.079
believe that, and you're telling that jury that as you

1536
01:35:17.159 --> 01:35:19.039
try to explain the lie that you told for the

1537
01:35:19.039 --> 01:35:20.439
first time yesterday. Isn't that right?

1538
01:35:20.600 --> 01:35:22.159
No, sir, that's right, It's not right.

1539
01:35:23.079 --> 01:35:23.399
All right.

1540
01:35:23.439 --> 01:35:25.000
Well, let me ask you a question then, So what

1541
01:35:25.039 --> 01:35:28.159
you're telling this jury is that it's a random vigilante.

1542
01:35:28.640 --> 01:35:31.560
That's your twelve year old, the twelve year old five

1543
01:35:31.640 --> 01:35:35.000
two people that just happened to know that Paul and

1544
01:35:35.079 --> 01:35:38.439
Maggie were both at Mozille on June seventh. That knew

1545
01:35:38.439 --> 01:35:40.720
that they would be at the kennels alone on June

1546
01:35:40.720 --> 01:35:42.439
the seventh. They knew that you would not be there.

1547
01:35:42.479 --> 01:35:44.920
But only between the times of eight forty nine and

1548
01:35:45.039 --> 01:35:47.520
nine oh two that they show up without a weapon,

1549
01:35:48.079 --> 01:35:50.520
assuming that they're going to find weapons and ammunition there,

1550
01:35:51.000 --> 01:35:53.600
that they commit this crime during that short time window,

1551
01:35:53.760 --> 01:35:55.880
and then they travel the same exact route that you

1552
01:35:56.000 --> 01:35:59.439
do around the same time to al Meta. That's what

1553
01:35:59.479 --> 01:36:01.760
you're trying to tell this jury.

1554
01:36:02.159 --> 01:36:04.720
You got a lot of factors in there, mister Waters,

1555
01:36:05.239 --> 01:36:07.680
all of which I do not agree with, but some

1556
01:36:07.760 --> 01:36:08.520
of which I do.

1557
01:36:10.359 --> 01:36:19.920
You testified earlier that after this happened. Well, let me

1558
01:36:20.000 --> 01:36:21.560
back up just real quick. When you were driving to

1559
01:36:21.600 --> 01:36:25.439
and from Albia, Why were you in such a hurry?

1560
01:36:25.720 --> 01:36:27.520
Why are you rolling seventy eighty miles an hour down

1561
01:36:27.600 --> 01:36:29.640
that dark, beat up road.

1562
01:36:30.600 --> 01:36:31.920
I wasn't in such a hurry.

1563
01:36:32.119 --> 01:36:39.199
You weren't, No, sir, Selly Western Marks States five Septer three,

1564
01:36:39.560 --> 01:36:40.640
sud You recognize this.

1565
01:36:44.279 --> 01:36:44.840
I do.

1566
01:36:44.960 --> 01:36:46.199
I tell the jury what that is.

1567
01:36:46.680 --> 01:36:49.479
It's a nice cook, right, and what's it? In front of.

1568
01:36:51.399 --> 01:36:54.279
The house at Moseilla, and what's between the house and

1569
01:36:54.399 --> 01:36:55.800
the Mercedes.

1570
01:36:57.359 --> 01:37:00.720
The golf cart. Is that where it.

1571
01:37:00.760 --> 01:37:01.520
Was on Janey eight?

1572
01:37:01.680 --> 01:37:02.479
Do you recollect?

1573
01:37:03.119 --> 01:37:07.560
No, sir, I mean it was near there, but that's

1574
01:37:07.640 --> 01:37:10.600
not exactly where it was, No, sir, okay, Where was

1575
01:37:10.640 --> 01:37:12.039
it where we would normally park.

1576
01:37:12.079 --> 01:37:15.640
It would be a little bit closer to the shed,

1577
01:37:16.840 --> 01:37:18.960
I mean a little bit closer to the to the house,

1578
01:37:19.000 --> 01:37:19.640
to the bushes.

1579
01:37:22.399 --> 01:37:23.800
When was that photograph taken?

1580
01:37:24.159 --> 01:37:25.760
Well, do you recognize when it was taking?

1581
01:37:26.800 --> 01:37:27.520
No, I don't.

1582
01:37:27.640 --> 01:37:28.600
I don't recognize.

1583
01:37:29.199 --> 01:37:31.319
This wasn't dispute that it was around the time in

1584
01:37:31.359 --> 01:37:34.119
the aftermath of the murders.

1585
01:37:35.159 --> 01:37:36.399
After math being when.

1586
01:37:36.840 --> 01:37:39.359
I'm asking you a day, a week or hour. I

1587
01:37:39.359 --> 01:37:41.760
wasn't there, mister murder. Do you recognize that.

1588
01:37:42.520 --> 01:37:45.399
I recognized the car, I recognized the house, and I

1589
01:37:45.439 --> 01:37:50.800
recognized the golf cart. But that is not that's that's

1590
01:37:50.880 --> 01:37:54.960
not exactly how it would have been that night.

1591
01:37:55.479 --> 01:37:57.760
Can you can you describe to need them where it

1592
01:37:57.760 --> 01:37:58.800
would be different.

1593
01:37:59.119 --> 01:38:06.960
Well, it would be more in line with first things. First,

1594
01:38:07.159 --> 01:38:11.840
is when we drove the golf cart, or when I

1595
01:38:11.920 --> 01:38:14.359
drove it, for sure, and I believe when the others

1596
01:38:14.439 --> 01:38:17.439
drove it you would come in, and you would you

1597
01:38:17.479 --> 01:38:20.840
would go across the little brick walkway that's in front

1598
01:38:20.880 --> 01:38:21.079
of this.

1599
01:38:21.439 --> 01:38:24.680
So if I would have come in and gone this way,

1600
01:38:25.000 --> 01:38:26.600
or I would have come in and gone this way,

1601
01:38:26.800 --> 01:38:30.720
this is not a place that any of my family

1602
01:38:30.760 --> 01:38:33.760
would have normally partnered it. And so what I'm assuming

1603
01:38:33.960 --> 01:38:38.760
is this obviously is taken at daytime, and what I'm

1604
01:38:38.800 --> 01:38:43.039
assuming is is it was taken when Sled came to

1605
01:38:43.119 --> 01:38:45.520
that The earliest it was taken was when Sled came

1606
01:38:45.560 --> 01:38:48.079
to the house the next day, which I believe the

1607
01:38:48.119 --> 01:38:51.000
testimony is in the afternoon.

1608
01:38:51.359 --> 01:38:57.720
And at this point in time that golf cart, I

1609
01:38:57.720 --> 01:39:01.560
would assume would have been moved several times. But that's

1610
01:39:01.640 --> 01:39:02.279
not how it was.

1611
01:39:02.319 --> 01:39:04.079
Well, where did you leave the golf park when you

1612
01:39:04.159 --> 01:39:05.800
got out of it around eight forty nine.

1613
01:39:06.680 --> 01:39:09.319
In the manner in which I just talked about.

1614
01:39:09.000 --> 01:39:12.439
Okay, well help me out again. So I understand you

1615
01:39:12.439 --> 01:39:13.960
you would have come around this way or that way,

1616
01:39:13.960 --> 01:39:15.079
But where was it? Where would it end?

1617
01:39:15.159 --> 01:39:18.399
It would have been in this picture is facing to

1618
01:39:18.520 --> 01:39:21.880
the right. I got you the night the night that

1619
01:39:22.079 --> 01:39:24.159
I drove it, I believe I parked it.

1620
01:39:24.079 --> 01:39:28.960
Facing to the left would be customarily how I did it,

1621
01:39:29.279 --> 01:39:31.119
and I believe I did it that way that night,

1622
01:39:31.880 --> 01:39:35.600
and that is how I would have gotten into it.

1623
01:39:36.119 --> 01:39:39.640
That's a very specific memory. Thank you all right for

1624
01:39:40.079 --> 01:39:45.520
states five seventy three admit it without a church, but

1625
01:39:45.600 --> 01:39:46.680
I think, oh no, very briefly.

1626
01:39:48.359 --> 01:39:50.439
And see, mister Waters, you can see in the picture

1627
01:39:50.479 --> 01:39:52.720
now that you've bring us up on screen, if you

1628
01:39:52.720 --> 01:39:56.680
look to the right, you can see the actual steps,

1629
01:39:57.159 --> 01:39:59.039
and just to the left of that would be where

1630
01:39:59.039 --> 01:40:03.640
the little brick patty starts, So where I would normally

1631
01:40:03.680 --> 01:40:06.119
park it. You would roll across those bricks and the

1632
01:40:06.239 --> 01:40:08.640
end of the golf cart would be just past those.

1633
01:40:11.520 --> 01:40:14.239
And we all normally parked it that way. Because the

1634
01:40:14.279 --> 01:40:17.279
way you charge this golf cart is if you see

1635
01:40:17.279 --> 01:40:21.039
that back seat that's sitting, you can see the edge.

1636
01:40:21.119 --> 01:40:23.319
This is a three seat golf cart, and you can

1637
01:40:23.399 --> 01:40:27.000
see the back seat. And a lot of golf carts

1638
01:40:27.119 --> 01:40:31.279
have the charger. This sits on the floor or something.

1639
01:40:31.439 --> 01:40:34.319
This golf cart has a charger that's plugged in and

1640
01:40:34.359 --> 01:40:36.439
a part of the golf cart, so you flip that

1641
01:40:36.560 --> 01:40:41.520
seat up and it plugs in and the outlets are

1642
01:40:41.600 --> 01:40:42.680
right up there by the door.

1643
01:40:43.920 --> 01:40:46.840
Yeah, anything else you want to say about that.

1644
01:40:47.760 --> 01:40:50.880
I'm gonna answer any questions you have, mister Waters, Why.

1645
01:40:50.760 --> 01:40:52.800
I foresaid all that information and breaking etail?

1646
01:40:56.960 --> 01:40:58.000
Gad you did the comments?

1647
01:41:00.079 --> 01:41:00.720
This thing.

1648
01:41:04.520 --> 01:41:15.319
All right, it's just never parked that way by the family.

1649
01:41:24.600 --> 01:41:39.600
Now the computer back, please, what's up, mister murdrack. I'm

1650
01:41:39.600 --> 01:41:41.119
gonna put a second interview.

1651
01:41:42.039 --> 01:41:44.960
This would have been in June the tenth. I'm not

1652
01:41:44.960 --> 01:41:46.319
gonna play the whole thing, but I do want to

1653
01:41:46.319 --> 01:41:47.279
go through a couple of things.

1654
01:41:47.119 --> 01:41:50.600
With you, Okay, anything you want to go through this work.

1655
01:41:52.079 --> 01:41:55.199
For the record, I'm gonna start, guys today. I'm gonna

1656
01:41:55.199 --> 01:41:57.720
started at twenty three fifty five. This is the first

1657
01:41:57.760 --> 01:41:59.920
interview trouble.

1658
01:42:02.039 --> 01:42:04.600
She's been out of trouble with her stomach and her tooth.

1659
01:42:04.680 --> 01:42:05.640
I'm not positive.

1660
01:42:05.760 --> 01:42:11.680
It was sort of a routine visit and I can't remember.

1661
01:42:12.800 --> 01:42:14.680
She told me the name of it, and I can't.

1662
01:42:15.479 --> 01:42:21.000
I want to say Gordyne. Gordeen Gordeyne is who I

1663
01:42:21.000 --> 01:42:21.760
think she saw.

1664
01:42:27.319 --> 01:42:29.439
So was she back home or else upper Town.

1665
01:42:30.760 --> 01:42:34.319
Or six o'clock, seven o'clock.

1666
01:42:36.960 --> 01:42:39.239
I don't think she got back quite that early.

1667
01:42:39.279 --> 01:42:40.399
I think she got back a.

1668
01:42:40.439 --> 01:42:41.520
Little bit later than that.

1669
01:42:41.840 --> 01:42:52.279
Okay, what did you do today?

1670
01:42:52.560 --> 01:42:53.880
Were you at the officer?

1671
01:42:54.039 --> 01:42:54.920
No, I was home.

1672
01:42:55.039 --> 01:42:56.920
I can't even following out mester around.

1673
01:42:57.479 --> 01:43:01.279
I uh, I was up at the house.

1674
01:43:01.520 --> 01:43:05.720
I laid answered the knap on the couch. Probably, I

1675
01:43:05.720 --> 01:43:06.039
don't know.

1676
01:43:06.640 --> 01:43:07.560
Twenty five.

1677
01:43:09.760 --> 01:43:14.720
I called Maggie, didn't get an answer, and.

1678
01:43:16.239 --> 01:43:17.680
If I left to go to.

1679
01:43:17.760 --> 01:43:21.279
My moms, she'd said she might ride with me and Clay.

1680
01:43:21.399 --> 01:43:29.319
She normally doesn't when I go over there, and I

1681
01:43:29.399 --> 01:43:30.680
think I texted.

1682
01:43:30.239 --> 01:43:35.680
Her there when you repeated the lie that you decided.

1683
01:43:38.199 --> 01:43:40.520
Was that the moment that I decided to lie to

1684
01:43:40.560 --> 01:43:43.840
mean old Dave Owen, I don't. I don't know, as

1685
01:43:43.880 --> 01:43:45.920
I told you, mister Water, is the exact moment that

1686
01:43:45.960 --> 01:43:48.560
I decided to lie, but at that point in time.

1687
01:43:49.720 --> 01:43:52.439
But you did lie there, correct, I did.

1688
01:43:53.520 --> 01:43:55.640
And she's very good about answering the folks at the

1689
01:43:55.680 --> 01:43:57.520
house or calling me back.

1690
01:43:57.600 --> 01:44:00.560
So that was odd, But it wasn't that a good deal?

1691
01:44:02.880 --> 01:44:05.720
All right, I'm gonna go to the second interview. It's

1692
01:44:05.760 --> 01:44:10.560
been previously admitted. Let me ask you this before we started.

1693
01:44:10.840 --> 01:44:13.800
You said it earlier during your direct testimony that after

1694
01:44:14.439 --> 01:44:20.199
these crimes happened, you were around family. Family was around you,

1695
01:44:20.199 --> 01:44:23.920
your law partners around you pretty much every minute after that, correct,

1696
01:44:24.960 --> 01:44:29.039
every waking minute. Then you say that yesterday.

1697
01:44:29.199 --> 01:44:32.840
Yes they were for a long time, all.

1698
01:44:32.800 --> 01:44:35.079
Right, And this second interview is three days later.

1699
01:44:35.119 --> 01:44:35.640
Is that right?

1700
01:44:37.520 --> 01:44:38.159
That's correct?

1701
01:44:39.000 --> 01:44:43.600
And in no time with any of your close friends

1702
01:44:43.640 --> 01:44:47.520
and law partners and family do you confess the truth?

1703
01:44:48.279 --> 01:44:49.560
Do you know I did not?

1704
01:44:53.520 --> 01:44:55.520
Do you say, hey, man, I think I messed up?

1705
01:44:56.600 --> 01:44:57.680
What should I do about this?

1706
01:44:58.520 --> 01:44:58.600
No?

1707
01:44:58.680 --> 01:45:01.680
I did I telling that lot at anyone? Are you

1708
01:45:02.520 --> 01:45:03.600
until yesterday?

1709
01:45:04.000 --> 01:45:04.640
Excuse me?

1710
01:45:04.800 --> 01:45:07.800
You're not telling that lot of anyone until yesterday? Are you.

1711
01:45:10.239 --> 01:45:19.399
Not telling what life saying? I tried to tell somebody

1712
01:45:19.439 --> 01:45:20.399
that I was lying.

1713
01:45:26.960 --> 01:45:31.760
All right, red thing getting all right, crashing on my

1714
01:45:31.880 --> 01:45:32.800
twelve twenty eight.

1715
01:45:32.920 --> 01:45:37.159
Him he don't like the doctors making him go get

1716
01:45:37.159 --> 01:45:38.199
his blood pressure checked.

1717
01:45:38.239 --> 01:45:41.319
His feat had swollen enough recently. Well, so you know

1718
01:45:41.760 --> 01:45:44.920
that was there was there was a big, huge deal.

1719
01:45:45.920 --> 01:45:47.920
You know, we hung around the house for a little while.

1720
01:45:48.960 --> 01:45:53.039
I know that Maggie went to the kennels. I don't

1721
01:45:53.079 --> 01:45:55.720
know exactly where Paul went that he left the house.

1722
01:45:55.560 --> 01:45:59.399
To okay, towdy Maggie getting down to the kennels.

1723
01:46:00.039 --> 01:46:03.479
I don't know exactly, but on normal occasions she would

1724
01:46:03.520 --> 01:46:08.239
drive drive a buggy, trive, a four wheeler, or very

1725
01:46:08.279 --> 01:46:10.279
common for her to walk.

1726
01:46:11.359 --> 01:46:11.880
About Paul.

1727
01:46:12.760 --> 01:46:15.279
Paul wasn't much of a walker, but he would use

1728
01:46:15.359 --> 01:46:20.600
all of the others. But I mean, could be anyway,

1729
01:46:20.720 --> 01:46:24.439
you know, I don't know exactly.

1730
01:46:24.720 --> 01:46:25.960
I wish I could help you with that.

1731
01:46:27.560 --> 01:46:30.720
So so they left and went down to the kennels.

1732
01:46:31.039 --> 01:46:32.560
Well, Maggie went to go to.

1733
01:46:32.479 --> 01:46:34.279
The kennels and Pole left.

1734
01:46:34.479 --> 01:46:38.880
And I'm assuming, you know, I'm assuming Paul left because

1735
01:46:38.920 --> 01:46:41.600
of you know what happened.

1736
01:46:41.960 --> 01:46:43.640
I mean, I'm su went to the.

1737
01:46:43.640 --> 01:46:49.640
Kennel and what did you do? Once Once Maggie and Pole.

1738
01:46:49.520 --> 01:46:51.960
Left, I stayed in the house and.

1739
01:46:53.439 --> 01:46:56.800
I was watching TV looking at my phone, and I

1740
01:46:56.880 --> 01:47:02.720
actually fell asleep on the couch. And what time did

1741
01:47:02.760 --> 01:47:05.720
you you know, I don't know exactly what time I

1742
01:47:05.760 --> 01:47:09.239
woke up, but when y'all get my phone, you know,

1743
01:47:09.399 --> 01:47:11.279
I think one of the first things I did when

1744
01:47:11.279 --> 01:47:13.000
I got up was called Maggie.

1745
01:47:13.239 --> 01:47:15.239
Because I was going to my mom's.

1746
01:47:17.239 --> 01:47:19.159
And I know I texted her because I checked my

1747
01:47:19.239 --> 01:47:21.239
phone And what time when we said the text was?

1748
01:47:21.359 --> 01:47:22.920
Yam like nine o six.

1749
01:47:23.439 --> 01:47:25.600
I didn't see that I got it riked out for me.

1750
01:47:26.680 --> 01:47:27.600
Yes, yes, I got it.

1751
01:47:27.680 --> 01:47:30.479
So you know I texted her, so I called her

1752
01:47:30.520 --> 01:47:31.159
just before that.

1753
01:47:31.920 --> 01:47:36.000
And I mean she she did an answer at that point,

1754
01:47:37.159 --> 01:47:38.319
and I left to go to.

1755
01:47:39.760 --> 01:47:40.279
My mom's.

1756
01:47:44.279 --> 01:47:46.560
Y'all just have to look, I don't I'm not sure

1757
01:47:46.560 --> 01:47:47.239
if I called.

1758
01:47:47.039 --> 01:47:49.000
It Paul well, and that, and that's why we're getting

1759
01:47:49.000 --> 01:47:51.159
phones so we can nail down the times and forgetting

1760
01:47:51.159 --> 01:47:51.840
before everything.

1761
01:47:56.199 --> 01:47:58.000
Pretty much all that was wise, wasn't.

1762
01:48:01.039 --> 01:48:03.239
The part about me not being at the kennel.

1763
01:48:03.800 --> 01:48:05.880
Was a little also, not knowing that Paul went down

1764
01:48:05.920 --> 01:48:07.560
there and not being sure that was a lie too,

1765
01:48:07.680 --> 01:48:09.560
wasn't it. I mean, you're putting some detail on this thing,

1766
01:48:09.840 --> 01:48:10.479
aren't you?

1767
01:48:10.560 --> 01:48:14.800
Not knowing when Paul left everything about me not going

1768
01:48:14.840 --> 01:48:16.199
to the kennel was a lie.

1769
01:48:16.760 --> 01:48:19.000
And you're able to just do that. That's so easily

1770
01:48:19.079 --> 01:48:21.840
and so convincingly and so naturally, don't you.

1771
01:48:23.199 --> 01:48:24.920
I mean, that's nothing me to judge.

1772
01:48:25.880 --> 01:48:42.159
That's true.

1773
01:48:42.920 --> 01:48:47.479
It's an odd story.

1774
01:48:50.079 --> 01:48:51.359
I don't get to where I'm going.

1775
01:48:53.399 --> 01:48:53.760
Right now.

1776
01:48:54.119 --> 01:48:55.479
Do y'all have any good clues?

1777
01:49:00.800 --> 01:49:03.319
So we we're trying to put a rush on that

1778
01:49:03.439 --> 01:49:07.960
to get an answer quick and and hoping that's gonna

1779
01:49:08.000 --> 01:49:08.479
tell us.

1780
01:49:08.359 --> 01:49:12.000
Something that I mean, is it things you're thinking are going.

1781
01:49:11.920 --> 01:49:12.600
To be helpful.

1782
01:49:13.800 --> 01:49:16.319
Well, I mean to like the shop shells out there,

1783
01:49:15.920 --> 01:49:20.199
that the case ins, the DNA swabs that we took

1784
01:49:20.199 --> 01:49:22.199
from the door handle to see if anybody touched the

1785
01:49:22.199 --> 01:49:25.319
door handles, any other places that we think somebody may.

1786
01:49:25.319 --> 01:49:26.159
Have touched.

1787
01:49:27.479 --> 01:49:29.760
While they were out there. You know, we're trying to

1788
01:49:29.760 --> 01:49:33.399
collect DNA from that and that the last that which

1789
01:49:33.439 --> 01:49:35.479
had the conclusion of this. But what I'm what I

1790
01:49:35.520 --> 01:49:37.319
also ask because if we get a buckle slag the

1791
01:49:37.359 --> 01:49:40.159
DNA squad from you, your your DNA is going to

1792
01:49:40.239 --> 01:49:42.479
be there, but we need to eliminate it's one of

1793
01:49:42.479 --> 01:49:46.039
the one that wants us developed, so you know we

1794
01:49:46.079 --> 01:49:46.600
don't need.

1795
01:49:46.520 --> 01:49:48.439
To Yeah, it actually is.

1796
01:49:51.199 --> 01:49:53.840
I mean, we we have talked to.

1797
01:49:56.479 --> 01:49:59.079
Close to one hundred people trying to track people down

1798
01:49:59.079 --> 01:50:01.920
and we're still tracking without and that's why you know

1799
01:50:02.039 --> 01:50:04.560
who who follows with.

1800
01:50:04.640 --> 01:50:06.319
I want to tell you one thing while I'm thinking

1801
01:50:06.319 --> 01:50:07.199
about that.

1802
01:50:07.239 --> 01:50:11.960
Paul was really an incredibly.

1803
01:50:12.640 --> 01:50:14.560
Intuitive little dude.

1804
01:50:15.239 --> 01:50:18.600
And I mean he was like a little detective.

1805
01:50:20.520 --> 01:50:22.720
He was like a little detective of that what you said.

1806
01:50:23.000 --> 01:50:28.359
That's what I said, and he was very intuitive, like I.

1807
01:50:28.279 --> 01:50:34.319
Said, And that was what Marion described is Maggie's term

1808
01:50:34.439 --> 01:50:38.279
for how he was and keeping tabs on your pill usage.

1809
01:50:38.439 --> 01:50:39.199
Wasn't that correct?

1810
01:50:39.560 --> 01:50:42.079
That that was what Maggie said about him.

1811
01:50:42.359 --> 01:50:44.199
For some reason, you decided to bring that up in

1812
01:50:44.239 --> 01:50:45.319
this interview, didn't you.

1813
01:50:48.760 --> 01:50:50.880
I mean, that was a ian that was a trade

1814
01:50:50.880 --> 01:50:52.079
of Paul's personality.

1815
01:50:52.319 --> 01:50:55.039
I mean, I think anybody who knew him would tell

1816
01:50:55.079 --> 01:50:56.399
you how intuitive he was.

1817
01:51:05.439 --> 01:51:16.680
Yure m h.

1818
01:51:18.479 --> 01:51:20.800
All right, for the record, I'm at forty six thirty.

1819
01:51:23.600 --> 01:51:26.640
Well, thank you very much, so.

1820
01:51:29.319 --> 01:51:30.159
Let's let's drave it.

1821
01:51:30.640 --> 01:51:31.640
You don't have to call mean this.

1822
01:51:31.840 --> 01:51:33.720
You thank you for that.

1823
01:51:36.199 --> 01:51:39.279
When when yeah, well you and Paul got back to

1824
01:51:39.279 --> 01:51:39.600
the house.

1825
01:51:39.680 --> 01:51:46.119
Miss Maggie's there and y'all eat supper which has been prepared.

1826
01:51:47.079 --> 01:51:49.439
And you say, you said you laid down and took

1827
01:51:49.479 --> 01:51:53.039
a little that out and when you got up, Maggie

1828
01:51:53.079 --> 01:51:55.159
and Paul was God the Lord of daily when you

1829
01:51:55.199 --> 01:51:55.680
lay down.

1830
01:51:56.279 --> 01:51:57.359
I believed that.

1831
01:52:04.079 --> 01:52:07.560
I'm not sure, but they.

1832
01:52:07.520 --> 01:52:11.319
Weren't there when you book around nine o'clock fark or

1833
01:52:11.399 --> 01:52:14.439
so when you made you call to Maggie to letter day.

1834
01:52:16.039 --> 01:52:19.079
Nobody does in that house when I when I.

1835
01:52:19.119 --> 01:52:28.199
Left, since they've just tried to narrow that the last

1836
01:52:28.239 --> 01:52:28.720
time that.

1837
01:52:30.399 --> 01:52:31.880
Fall and you shall fallow.

1838
01:52:31.960 --> 01:52:39.079
Maggie's from y'a already suffer, Yes, sir Faling, Your answer.

1839
01:52:38.960 --> 01:52:42.359
Was yes, sir, that's correct.

1840
01:52:42.800 --> 01:52:45.920
So Waters by this point had to be thinking, unless

1841
01:52:46.039 --> 01:52:50.960
he majorly fucks up, he's got Alex dead rights on

1842
01:52:51.199 --> 01:52:55.119
this whole deal. So he decides to transition to the

1843
01:52:55.199 --> 01:53:02.039
financial aspects of his crimes and Alex's accomplices to those crimes. Specifically,

1844
01:53:02.319 --> 01:53:07.239
he focuses on Elex's friend at Palametto State Bank where

1845
01:53:07.279 --> 01:53:08.760
he got the majority.

1846
01:53:08.359 --> 01:53:09.199
Of his loans.

1847
01:53:10.039 --> 01:53:15.079
So listen to just how masterful creating Waters handles this

1848
01:53:15.359 --> 01:53:20.039
aspect of the testimony, and Alex sorry asks excuses for

1849
01:53:20.319 --> 01:53:23.159
why he did what he did, is it relates to

1850
01:53:23.239 --> 01:53:26.560
those financial crimes. You're also going to hear him ask

1851
01:53:26.720 --> 01:53:31.600
Eleck about Alex's theory of unknown assailants as the person's

1852
01:53:31.720 --> 01:53:35.439
being responsible for these murders at Mozelle.

1853
01:53:35.720 --> 01:53:40.520
And here's that about to go to the August twenty

1854
01:53:40.560 --> 01:53:45.199
twenty one interview. But between that June tenth interview and

1855
01:53:45.319 --> 01:53:53.960
the August interview, you we're not working very much, is

1856
01:53:54.000 --> 01:53:56.000
that correct, if at all.

1857
01:53:57.560 --> 01:54:00.279
No, I definitely wasn't working very much. I think I

1858
01:54:00.439 --> 01:54:04.239
was working a little bit, but no, not damn much

1859
01:54:04.279 --> 01:54:04.520
at all.

1860
01:54:06.640 --> 01:54:11.399
Did you go to Johnny Parker to borrow two hundred

1861
01:54:11.399 --> 01:54:14.720
and fifty thousand dollars in order to cover the Ferris

1862
01:54:14.840 --> 01:54:15.560
Field fees?

1863
01:54:16.520 --> 01:54:16.840
I did?

1864
01:54:17.279 --> 01:54:17.680
You didn't?

1865
01:54:17.840 --> 01:54:18.159
I did.

1866
01:54:18.439 --> 01:54:19.680
Did you tell him what that was for?

1867
01:54:20.239 --> 01:54:20.279
No?

1868
01:54:20.560 --> 01:54:22.039
I did not tell him what that was for.

1869
01:54:28.239 --> 01:54:28.720
Did you go.

1870
01:54:30.600 --> 01:54:34.239
To Rustle the Feet at Palmetta State Bank and get

1871
01:54:34.279 --> 01:54:39.279
three hundred and fifty thousand dollars in order to help

1872
01:54:39.399 --> 01:54:41.479
cover some of the Ferris fees that you had taken

1873
01:54:41.600 --> 01:54:42.680
the sound Chris Wilson.

1874
01:54:42.840 --> 01:54:43.159
I did?

1875
01:54:44.279 --> 01:54:46.800
And did you get those fees before you signed any

1876
01:54:46.800 --> 01:54:48.119
paperwork or documentation?

1877
01:54:50.119 --> 01:54:53.560
I've heard testimony about that in this case, but I can't.

1878
01:54:53.880 --> 01:54:57.159
I can't tell you the specifics of that. You don't

1879
01:54:57.159 --> 01:55:01.439
recall that, Do I recall when I said on paperwork? No, sir,

1880
01:55:01.600 --> 01:55:03.159
you don't recall that you got the money a month

1881
01:55:03.239 --> 01:55:04.199
before you had to sign.

1882
01:55:04.000 --> 01:55:04.680
An your paperwork.

1883
01:55:06.760 --> 01:55:07.920
No, sir, I don't recall that.

1884
01:55:09.640 --> 01:55:11.159
Call your phone being in the console with it.

1885
01:55:11.239 --> 01:55:13.159
I'm not disputing that, but I don't recall it.

1886
01:55:15.720 --> 01:55:20.600
Did you go to your best friend, Chris Wilson, and

1887
01:55:20.800 --> 01:55:23.239
convince him to cover one hundred and ninety two thousand

1888
01:55:23.319 --> 01:55:25.920
dollars the remaining one hundred and two ninety thousand dollars

1889
01:55:26.760 --> 01:55:30.880
in order for him to send that email to your

1890
01:55:30.960 --> 01:55:33.199
law firm as if those fees had been there all along.

1891
01:55:33.800 --> 01:55:37.279
I spoke to Chris Wilson and did not have the

1892
01:55:37.399 --> 01:55:41.119
full amount of the fees, and I got Chris Wilson

1893
01:55:41.479 --> 01:55:44.520
to put your remaining fees in his trust account.

1894
01:55:44.720 --> 01:55:46.279
And when you did that, you didn't tell him the

1895
01:55:46.319 --> 01:55:49.520
truth about your life. You just asked him to cover you.

1896
01:55:50.760 --> 01:55:52.880
I did not tell him, and he agreed to do

1897
01:55:53.000 --> 01:55:55.199
that because of his belief of who you really were

1898
01:55:56.079 --> 01:55:57.159
or who he thought you were.

1899
01:55:58.039 --> 01:56:00.680
He agreed to do that for whatever as I assumed,

1900
01:56:00.720 --> 01:56:01.760
that was a big part of it.

1901
01:56:05.000 --> 01:56:09.880
And once that six hundred thousand dollars was transferred, Chris

1902
01:56:09.920 --> 01:56:12.800
Wilson sent an email to you saying those fees have

1903
01:56:12.920 --> 01:56:14.800
been there were in his trust account.

1904
01:56:15.159 --> 01:56:16.560
Correct, That is correct?

1905
01:56:17.079 --> 01:56:20.119
And then you forwarded that email to Leek Hope and

1906
01:56:20.199 --> 01:56:22.520
Genie Seconder. Correct.

1907
01:56:23.359 --> 01:56:25.199
I know I afforded to Genie, and I've heard that

1908
01:56:25.359 --> 01:56:29.199
testimony about forwarding it to Leeko. So I believe that's correct.

1909
01:56:30.359 --> 01:56:33.800
I'll get it off from PSD because at that time

1910
01:56:34.800 --> 01:56:39.760
there were limitations on how much I could borrow.

1911
01:56:42.840 --> 01:56:57.439
Because MAGS was passed and so I was limited. I

1912
01:56:57.520 --> 01:56:59.279
couldn't get a loan.

1913
01:56:59.159 --> 01:57:04.199
Against Moselle and had to get a loan against Palmetta State,

1914
01:57:04.680 --> 01:57:06.600
I mean against uh Edista.

1915
01:57:18.319 --> 01:57:34.479
Going to the third interview, all right, I'm gonna go

1916
01:57:34.640 --> 01:57:39.119
to seventeen forty five. Three seen this, so I mean again,

1917
01:57:39.199 --> 01:57:41.239
you repeated the same lies over and over again. I

1918
01:57:41.359 --> 01:57:43.640
did effortlessly and convincingly.

1919
01:57:45.840 --> 01:57:46.680
I don't know about that.

1920
01:57:46.960 --> 01:57:48.920
Well, they can see it there.

1921
01:57:49.560 --> 01:57:50.199
I agree with that.

1922
01:57:50.479 --> 01:57:51.439
Nobody yelled at you.

1923
01:57:52.119 --> 01:57:54.640
Nobody yelled at mean, nobody, nobody. None of these guys

1924
01:57:54.720 --> 01:58:00.760
were ever discourteous to me. Nobody what I said, None

1925
01:58:00.800 --> 01:58:02.479
of those guys were ever discourteous to me.

1926
01:58:03.880 --> 01:58:06.560
You made a comment earlier that David Owens was mean

1927
01:58:06.720 --> 01:58:09.399
or something about being mean, and he was never mean

1928
01:58:09.479 --> 01:58:09.680
to me.

1929
01:58:13.439 --> 01:58:17.960
All right, But you decided to lie in part because

1930
01:58:18.000 --> 01:58:19.359
you distrusted David Owen.

1931
01:58:20.640 --> 01:58:25.760
I distrusted sled in general, and I particularly distrusted who

1932
01:58:25.880 --> 01:58:27.520
I thought was David Owen at the time.

1933
01:58:30.039 --> 01:58:31.680
Who turned out not to be David Owen.

1934
01:58:32.800 --> 01:58:34.199
So wait a minute, I want to be clear. You're

1935
01:58:34.199 --> 01:58:37.359
saying now you thought that this was some David Owen

1936
01:58:37.399 --> 01:58:39.600
that had something to do with Greg Alexander ten years ago.

1937
01:58:40.359 --> 01:58:42.720
No, sir, and I'm not saying that now. I said

1938
01:58:42.760 --> 01:58:43.640
that all along.

1939
01:58:44.000 --> 01:58:44.239
Wow.

1940
01:58:44.800 --> 01:58:48.520
The person that I saw and watched in Greg Alexander's

1941
01:58:48.560 --> 01:58:55.239
trial that was clear to me was just it was

1942
01:58:56.399 --> 01:58:59.800
terrible what they did to Greg Alexander, and the person

1943
01:59:00.520 --> 01:59:02.439
had slid who was responsible for.

1944
01:59:02.520 --> 01:59:05.560
That was a guy named David and I might even

1945
01:59:05.640 --> 01:59:06.760
get into his last name.

1946
01:59:07.880 --> 01:59:11.439
I thought that David Owens that night was that guy

1947
01:59:11.960 --> 01:59:15.760
later down the road, and it was a while.

1948
01:59:16.680 --> 01:59:18.680
I checked into that, and I found out that I

1949
01:59:18.800 --> 01:59:20.760
was mistaken that it was not David Owen.

1950
01:59:21.079 --> 01:59:22.760
When wing back and we spent a lot of time

1951
01:59:22.800 --> 01:59:24.960
going through this first statement. You're telling me now that

1952
01:59:25.119 --> 01:59:28.119
you were sitting there thinking that this was a completely

1953
01:59:28.199 --> 01:59:30.039
different guy the whole time, and that was on your

1954
01:59:30.119 --> 01:59:31.920
mind during that entire interview.

1955
01:59:35.039 --> 01:59:38.199
Yes, at the time I thought that David Owen. No,

1956
01:59:38.319 --> 01:59:40.600
I didn't think David Owen was a different person. I

1957
01:59:40.680 --> 01:59:43.720
thought that David Owens was the person that my dad

1958
01:59:43.800 --> 01:59:50.319
and I had watched just my dad, and I truly

1959
01:59:50.399 --> 01:59:55.760
thought evidence was manufactured, and I thought it was David Owen,

1960
01:59:56.199 --> 01:59:59.840
And I was wrong about that, but that's what I

1961
02:00:00.039 --> 02:00:00.600
thought that night.

1962
02:00:04.760 --> 02:00:07.439
Any other factors or details you want to about your decisions?

1963
02:00:07.439 --> 02:00:08.880
Don't want to answer any question you have.

1964
02:00:10.520 --> 02:00:11.640
You know anymore?

1965
02:00:13.720 --> 02:00:14.880
Do you have any more questions?

1966
02:00:15.119 --> 02:00:17.399
No, I mean anymore about your decision to lie. I mean,

1967
02:00:17.640 --> 02:00:19.439
I just want to let's get it all out now.

1968
02:00:21.920 --> 02:00:24.000
If you have any questions, I'd be glad to answer.

1969
02:00:24.479 --> 02:00:25.199
All right, Well, I do.

1970
02:00:32.800 --> 02:00:37.800
Tell me about the replacement blackout. You initially told law

1971
02:00:37.880 --> 02:00:40.000
enforcement that you weren't sure whether or not there was

1972
02:00:40.119 --> 02:00:41.479
one crack them right.

1973
02:00:42.119 --> 02:00:44.199
Oh, no, sir, you're absolutely wrong about that.

1974
02:00:45.159 --> 02:00:45.880
What did you say that?

1975
02:00:47.199 --> 02:00:53.079
Shortly after this, it became being told that Paul's gun

1976
02:00:53.159 --> 02:00:56.319
had been stolen and uh, the one you heard talk

1977
02:00:56.359 --> 02:00:57.760
about being stolen from the thing.

1978
02:00:58.920 --> 02:01:00.920
And I'm not sure how I learned this, but I

1979
02:01:01.079 --> 02:01:05.159
learned that somebody I believe Shlid, had gone to.

1980
02:01:07.279 --> 02:01:10.159
John Bettingfield, who made those guns, and could only find

1981
02:01:10.199 --> 02:01:14.359
paperwork for two blackouts, one of which they were saying

1982
02:01:14.479 --> 02:01:18.439
was stolen in seventeen. And that's what they were telling me,

1983
02:01:19.520 --> 02:01:22.760
and I was certain and told them that I was

1984
02:01:22.840 --> 02:01:24.319
certain that there was a third one.

1985
02:01:25.560 --> 02:01:29.359
But initially in June eighth and June tenth or June tenth,

1986
02:01:29.479 --> 02:01:32.640
you were saying that you thought that y'all had replaced it,

1987
02:01:32.840 --> 02:01:35.159
and then you kind of waivered and then eventually said

1988
02:01:35.239 --> 02:01:35.960
you did replace it.

1989
02:01:36.039 --> 02:01:36.319
Correct.

1990
02:01:36.520 --> 02:01:38.800
I don't believe that's correct. No, say that's correct.

1991
02:01:39.039 --> 02:01:41.439
No, I don't believe that's you say the law enforcement

1992
02:01:41.520 --> 02:01:44.520
that you thought that the third gun, the replacement blackout,

1993
02:01:44.560 --> 02:01:46.600
had gone missing in Christmas of twenty twenty.

1994
02:01:48.279 --> 02:01:50.680
It did go missing in Christmas twenty twenty.

1995
02:01:50.640 --> 02:01:52.880
So you're telling them that one also had been missing

1996
02:01:53.600 --> 02:01:57.319
six months prior. Right, and answer my question first, and

1997
02:01:57.359 --> 02:01:59.920
then you can explain. Did you aught tell law enforcement

1998
02:02:00.000 --> 02:02:01.920
that gun had been missing since Christmas time?

1999
02:02:03.039 --> 02:02:05.279
I told law enforcement that when we looked for it

2000
02:02:05.760 --> 02:02:09.119
at Christmas time, we could not find it, and that

2001
02:02:09.279 --> 02:02:13.880
was that was accurate. We looked for it when we

2002
02:02:14.000 --> 02:02:17.119
were trying to shoot hogs, when we had a group

2003
02:02:17.159 --> 02:02:19.560
of people out there, and we could not find it.

2004
02:02:20.239 --> 02:02:22.840
Okay, but you now know that it was there's the

2005
02:02:22.880 --> 02:02:23.800
latest Turkey season.

2006
02:02:26.399 --> 02:02:29.159
I know I know that will love and Paul. Paul

2007
02:02:30.039 --> 02:02:30.359
had it.

2008
02:02:31.920 --> 02:02:34.560
Right before Turkey season like will Love and testify too,

2009
02:02:36.760 --> 02:02:40.760
So it was around Actually it was around there at

2010
02:02:40.840 --> 02:02:42.840
some point in time there, Yes, sir, So.

2011
02:02:42.920 --> 02:02:45.680
You're saying a guy stolen a second time or you

2012
02:02:45.880 --> 02:02:49.359
just don't know. No, I'm not the twelve year old

2013
02:02:49.439 --> 02:02:50.319
sotol it a second time.

2014
02:02:53.199 --> 02:02:55.399
I never said a twelve year old stole any gun.

2015
02:02:55.600 --> 02:02:57.680
Mystery with my two people stole it a second time.

2016
02:02:59.319 --> 02:03:01.680
I don't know that it was stolen. I just know

2017
02:03:01.840 --> 02:03:04.159
that when we look for it at Christmas time, we

2018
02:03:04.239 --> 02:03:04.960
couldn't find it.

2019
02:03:05.319 --> 02:03:05.840
And I know this.

2020
02:03:06.159 --> 02:03:10.239
I know that I hadn't seen that gun in a

2021
02:03:10.319 --> 02:03:10.880
long time.

2022
02:03:13.560 --> 02:03:16.680
I've heard the testimony that people who were at my

2023
02:03:16.880 --> 02:03:21.319
house using guns and hunting with us all the time,

2024
02:03:22.399 --> 02:03:28.920
Rogan uh Buscher, they didn't I can't remember about Busher,

2025
02:03:28.960 --> 02:03:30.560
but there were several people who didn't even know that

2026
02:03:30.640 --> 02:03:33.199
gun had been replaced. So that tells me that that

2027
02:03:33.359 --> 02:03:37.159
gun did not stay where our regular guns were. And

2028
02:03:37.279 --> 02:03:39.399
I know that I didn't see it there, and that

2029
02:03:39.640 --> 02:03:41.399
tells me that they didn't see it there.

2030
02:03:41.680 --> 02:03:43.079
And of course you didn't see it there, because it's

2031
02:03:43.079 --> 02:03:43.600
got to be messing.

2032
02:03:47.840 --> 02:03:48.439
That's that question.

2033
02:03:48.520 --> 02:03:51.439
Of circumstance for your latest story to work is that

2034
02:03:51.520 --> 02:03:54.199
it's got to be kissing as well. It was when

2035
02:03:54.239 --> 02:03:56.359
you sold law enforcement. It was missing your Christmas time.

2036
02:03:56.439 --> 02:03:59.840
Now we've had testimony of this trial and now you're

2037
02:04:00.000 --> 02:04:01.760
you're still claiming that you never saw it. It must

2038
02:04:01.760 --> 02:04:04.199
have been kept somewhere else Where else would it have

2039
02:04:04.279 --> 02:04:04.680
been kept.

2040
02:04:06.720 --> 02:04:08.760
It could have been kept anywhere, mister Waters. For the

2041
02:04:08.800 --> 02:04:12.840
way Paul did guns, the way guns were handled around there, I.

2042
02:04:12.920 --> 02:04:13.760
Was terrible about that.

2043
02:04:14.279 --> 02:04:15.199
You're terrible about that.

2044
02:04:21.680 --> 02:04:22.720
I should have been stripped.

2045
02:04:24.920 --> 02:04:27.439
But you know that that third gun was fired right

2046
02:04:27.520 --> 02:04:32.800
outside the gun room door in Turkey season of twenty

2047
02:04:32.840 --> 02:04:33.640
twenty one, correct.

2048
02:04:35.560 --> 02:04:38.279
I know that now based on what Will Loban said.

2049
02:04:38.479 --> 02:04:41.439
And you know it was also fired across the street

2050
02:04:41.560 --> 02:04:45.319
y'all shooting house around that same time, don't you.

2051
02:04:46.239 --> 02:04:49.680
You know, sir, I don't know that, but I know

2052
02:04:49.800 --> 02:04:53.720
that I would assume that it was fired at the

2053
02:04:53.760 --> 02:04:57.680
shooting range, but I have no I don't have any

2054
02:04:57.720 --> 02:05:00.560
reason to believe it was done in close proximity that time.

2055
02:05:01.239 --> 02:05:05.159
A few months go by, A couple of months go by,

2056
02:05:07.479 --> 02:05:12.680
and you get confronted about your thefts from the law firm. Correct.

2057
02:05:14.279 --> 02:05:15.600
September of twenty one.

2058
02:05:16.039 --> 02:05:19.920
And unlike June the seventh when Jeannie confronted you, this

2059
02:05:20.119 --> 02:05:21.960
time they had unasstainable evidence.

2060
02:05:22.039 --> 02:05:22.319
Correct.

2061
02:05:26.880 --> 02:05:28.279
Yeah, that's correct.

2062
02:05:28.359 --> 02:05:31.119
I mean they had no weggling out of this one.

2063
02:05:31.199 --> 02:05:31.520
Correct.

2064
02:05:32.640 --> 02:05:34.239
I didn't try to while out of this one.

2065
02:05:35.159 --> 02:05:38.159
Boy. You've been weggling before, though, right. You wiggled when

2066
02:05:38.199 --> 02:05:40.199
you stole your brother's money twice. Correct.

2067
02:05:42.760 --> 02:05:46.039
I admit almost all of these things, mister Waters.

2068
02:05:46.079 --> 02:05:48.359
But that's one of the things that I take dispute with,

2069
02:05:49.600 --> 02:05:53.000
which one that I stole that money that you're referring to.

2070
02:05:53.520 --> 02:05:55.640
You're gonna dispute that. Let's hear about that. Then tell

2071
02:05:55.680 --> 02:05:59.800
me why you dispute fashion that checked twice.

2072
02:06:00.720 --> 02:06:02.600
I don't dispute cashing that check twice.

2073
02:06:05.720 --> 02:06:08.119
What you're gonna tell this jury that you accidentally didn't

2074
02:06:08.159 --> 02:06:11.319
realize that you were supposed to be receiving some one

2075
02:06:11.399 --> 02:06:14.039
hundred and twenty five thousand dollars check on one hundred

2076
02:06:14.039 --> 02:06:23.399
and twenty however, thousand dollars check two times. What I'm

2077
02:06:23.399 --> 02:06:25.720
telling twenty thousand dollars checks do you receive.

2078
02:06:26.600 --> 02:06:31.000
I got that check and this is several months after me.

2079
02:06:31.319 --> 02:06:33.439
You can look at my finances and you can you

2080
02:06:33.520 --> 02:06:36.159
can see how I was doing. I didn't balance a

2081
02:06:36.319 --> 02:06:40.319
check book. But the fact of the matter is when

2082
02:06:40.319 --> 02:06:45.960
I got that check, I asked about it and I

2083
02:06:46.119 --> 02:06:51.119
was told mistakenly that that it was for me that

2084
02:06:51.239 --> 02:06:55.079
I had I had done participated in that year and

2085
02:06:55.159 --> 02:06:58.079
thing which I did sometimes, not often, but sometimes.

2086
02:07:00.000 --> 02:07:02.760
Apparently A new check got cashed. I cashed that check.

2087
02:07:03.159 --> 02:07:07.000
Then a year later, Yeah, where did you keep that one?

2088
02:07:07.079 --> 02:07:07.319
For you?

2089
02:07:08.239 --> 02:07:09.840
I don't know where it was. It was obviously in

2090
02:07:09.960 --> 02:07:10.439
my desk.

2091
02:07:10.520 --> 02:07:12.920
But mister Waters, so you found it in your desk?

2092
02:07:13.279 --> 02:07:14.640
No, I didn't find it.

2093
02:07:14.960 --> 02:07:16.520
Well, you say it was obviously in your desk, So

2094
02:07:16.560 --> 02:07:18.920
you remember that you remember finding it in your desk?

2095
02:07:19.319 --> 02:07:21.520
No, I remember when we did you go to.

2096
02:07:21.560 --> 02:07:24.359
Finance and say, I just found this year old check.

2097
02:07:24.720 --> 02:07:29.279
Is this right? No? No, you turned to the bag,

2098
02:07:29.399 --> 02:07:29.720
didn't you.

2099
02:07:30.079 --> 02:07:30.119
No?

2100
02:07:30.279 --> 02:07:35.800
Sure, I didn't, not allowing mister Murder to answer the question.

2101
02:07:36.039 --> 02:07:41.520
So when this came up, When this came up, that

2102
02:07:41.680 --> 02:07:42.359
check got cashed.

2103
02:07:42.479 --> 02:07:46.239
There's no way that I can have a check in

2104
02:07:46.359 --> 02:07:50.239
our law firm, with the way accounting is, and that

2105
02:07:50.399 --> 02:07:52.439
I can cash a check twice and think that.

2106
02:07:54.279 --> 02:07:55.319
That's impossible.

2107
02:07:55.800 --> 02:08:00.279
So to cash a check that's already been checked, it's

2108
02:08:00.319 --> 02:08:03.399
gonna throw There's no question it's gonna throw that off.

2109
02:08:04.039 --> 02:08:06.399
What happened is I had an we used to get

2110
02:08:06.439 --> 02:08:09.119
a rent check. We get little checks. I'd have checks,

2111
02:08:09.399 --> 02:08:13.880
and they pile up the small checks. That check got

2112
02:08:14.000 --> 02:08:16.880
mixed in and it got sent to the bank and

2113
02:08:17.000 --> 02:08:25.199
it got deposited. And that was a year after. But

2114
02:08:26.119 --> 02:08:30.119
I do dispute that I stole that money. That money,

2115
02:08:31.800 --> 02:08:32.119
all right?

2116
02:08:32.239 --> 02:08:33.880
Well, I mean you brought up so any of the

2117
02:08:33.960 --> 02:08:36.600
other money you dispute seeing No, sure you brought it up.

2118
02:08:36.680 --> 02:08:38.439
I was just telling you that that was the one

2119
02:08:38.479 --> 02:08:39.560
I disputed.

2120
02:08:40.640 --> 02:08:40.960
All right.

2121
02:08:41.479 --> 02:08:44.960
And you heard Ronnie Crosby and Martin Ball testify about that, correctly.

2122
02:08:45.600 --> 02:08:48.600
I heard Ronnie and Mark testify about what they thought

2123
02:08:48.640 --> 02:08:48.920
about it.

2124
02:08:49.000 --> 02:08:52.439
Yes, sir, testified yesterday about the side of the road.

2125
02:08:55.840 --> 02:08:56.439
Yeah, yes, sir.

2126
02:08:56.880 --> 02:08:59.840
And then you heard the testimony during the States Direct

2127
02:09:00.319 --> 02:09:02.399
about what you said on the nine to one one call.

2128
02:09:06.239 --> 02:09:08.520
You heard that, didn't I did hear that. You heard

2129
02:09:08.520 --> 02:09:10.680
the nine one one call where you said you've been

2130
02:09:10.720 --> 02:09:13.439
attacked by an unknown assailant and described him.

2131
02:09:14.159 --> 02:09:14.479
I did.

2132
02:09:15.399 --> 02:09:15.720
And you.

2133
02:09:17.359 --> 02:09:20.439
Saw the video from the ambulance where you said you'd

2134
02:09:20.479 --> 02:09:22.800
been attacked by an unknown assailant and described him.

2135
02:09:22.960 --> 02:09:23.239
I did.

2136
02:09:23.720 --> 02:09:28.600
And you heard the testimony from Ryan Kelly, where you

2137
02:09:29.880 --> 02:09:33.560
again went into detail and described this attack from an

2138
02:09:33.600 --> 02:09:34.359
unknown assailant.

2139
02:09:35.960 --> 02:09:36.279
I did.

2140
02:09:37.199 --> 02:09:41.279
And you heard the testimony about your interview on September

2141
02:09:41.359 --> 02:09:44.000
sixth with law enforcement in which you went into great

2142
02:09:44.079 --> 02:09:47.560
detail and again described this unknown assailant.

2143
02:09:49.319 --> 02:09:49.640
I did.

2144
02:09:50.119 --> 02:09:53.159
And you heard the testimony, and in fact, the image

2145
02:09:53.279 --> 02:09:56.920
was put in about how you sat down with a

2146
02:09:57.680 --> 02:10:03.479
sled sketch artist and spent a period of time with

2147
02:10:03.600 --> 02:10:08.520
her going forward and creating an image of the supposed assailants.

2148
02:10:09.199 --> 02:10:10.199
I did sit down with it.

2149
02:10:11.199 --> 02:10:13.880
I was in the hospital and they came in, sat

2150
02:10:13.920 --> 02:10:16.560
down with me, asked me a bunch of questions. I

2151
02:10:16.720 --> 02:10:18.239
answered their questions.

2152
02:10:18.399 --> 02:10:19.479
And yes, you did.

2153
02:10:19.640 --> 02:10:23.600
You sat a it came up with a composite Yes, sir.

2154
02:10:24.039 --> 02:10:27.760
Sat there and answered their questions just as effortlessly and

2155
02:10:27.920 --> 02:10:30.840
convincingly as you've been trying to do for the past

2156
02:10:30.880 --> 02:10:31.279
two days.

2157
02:10:31.359 --> 02:10:33.760
And that correct, No, sir, that's that's not true.

2158
02:10:33.880 --> 02:10:39.600
In that hospital, I was, I was. I mean I

2159
02:10:39.640 --> 02:10:42.439
couldn't sit still. I was standing up. I was walking around.

2160
02:10:42.920 --> 02:10:45.479
I was using the bathroom with the lady sitting right there.

2161
02:10:45.640 --> 02:10:50.960
I was, you know, I was two days into not

2162
02:10:51.159 --> 02:10:54.560
taking three days into not taking pills like I had been.

2163
02:10:56.520 --> 02:10:59.439
So no, it wasn't effortlessly. But I mean I told

2164
02:10:59.479 --> 02:11:01.520
them what I told them. I don't dispute that I liked.

2165
02:11:01.720 --> 02:11:03.600
It was all lies, though, is the point correct?

2166
02:11:03.720 --> 02:11:04.039
It was?

2167
02:11:04.840 --> 02:11:06.640
I mean you're saying with draws, but you still were

2168
02:11:06.920 --> 02:11:09.279
able to pull off lies in great detail.

2169
02:11:10.079 --> 02:11:13.479
I lied to them, And the lie that you told.

2170
02:11:15.920 --> 02:11:20.039
Of an unknown assailant was to try to make people

2171
02:11:20.199 --> 02:11:25.840
think that the quote real guy, bad guys were back

2172
02:11:25.880 --> 02:11:27.680
again to finish the job. Isn't that true?

2173
02:11:28.960 --> 02:11:30.039
No, so that's not true.

2174
02:11:30.119 --> 02:11:32.560
That's not the effect that you intended that story to have.

2175
02:11:34.920 --> 02:11:36.920
Did it have that effect on people that you knew?

2176
02:11:39.880 --> 02:11:42.039
I don't that the exact effect that it had.

2177
02:11:43.159 --> 02:11:44.159
I don't. I don't.

2178
02:11:44.760 --> 02:11:47.000
I don't think there's many people that believed that. No, sir,

2179
02:11:47.119 --> 02:11:50.439
I know the people that were I mean, the people

2180
02:11:50.520 --> 02:11:52.560
that were closest to me didn't believe that.

2181
02:11:54.760 --> 02:11:59.159
So accountability is that your door, mister Murdock's bad things happened,

2182
02:11:59.720 --> 02:12:01.239
don't It's not true.

2183
02:12:03.000 --> 02:12:10.800
When accountability my lifestep bad things happen. What do you

2184
02:12:10.880 --> 02:12:11.880
mean by bad things?

2185
02:12:13.800 --> 02:12:16.199
June seventh happened, September fourth happened.

2186
02:12:17.479 --> 02:12:22.159
I don't believe that June seventh happened because accountability issues

2187
02:12:22.239 --> 02:12:26.920
were at my doorstep. Now I do believe in September

2188
02:12:27.800 --> 02:12:35.960
that I tried to get a man to help me

2189
02:12:36.079 --> 02:12:42.479
kill myself because issues were at my doorstep.

2190
02:12:43.880 --> 02:12:47.319
Every time. I'm sorry. For the first time in your

2191
02:12:47.399 --> 02:12:55.439
life of privilege and prominence and wealth, when you're facing

2192
02:12:55.479 --> 02:13:00.680
accountability each time, suddenly you became a victim and everyone

2193
02:13:01.239 --> 02:13:03.399
ran to your aid, isn't that true?

2194
02:13:08.119 --> 02:13:09.520
I mean I disagree with that, but.

2195
02:13:12.960 --> 02:13:16.600
I mean what you're saying for your extraordinary provocation, isn't

2196
02:13:16.640 --> 02:13:17.479
that true? Mister murder?

2197
02:13:17.880 --> 02:13:18.680
Let me just finish this.

2198
02:13:19.239 --> 02:13:21.880
You you seem to be implying two days June the

2199
02:13:22.000 --> 02:13:27.399
seventh in September and talking about accountability issues, and I

2200
02:13:27.479 --> 02:13:29.199
mean those to me, those two.

2201
02:13:29.119 --> 02:13:34.960
Things are totally different. There were no accountability issues on

2202
02:13:35.119 --> 02:13:38.319
my doorstep on June the seventh, that's what you say,

2203
02:13:38.960 --> 02:13:42.239
and in September not what other people say. I was

2204
02:13:42.399 --> 02:13:42.880
trying to.

2205
02:13:44.520 --> 02:13:48.039
Well, No, I mean been a lot of people you

2206
02:13:48.159 --> 02:14:03.159
know in September. That wasn't design to gain me sympathy.

2207
02:14:03.880 --> 02:14:07.000
That was designed for me not to be here because

2208
02:14:07.119 --> 02:14:10.199
I didn't want my son to have to deal with

2209
02:14:11.319 --> 02:14:13.000
the wake of the things that I had done.

2210
02:14:13.640 --> 02:14:15.560
But that's not the story you told. The story that

2211
02:14:15.640 --> 02:14:18.199
came out of your mouth right away was the story

2212
02:14:18.279 --> 02:14:21.000
of you getting attacked by some unknown ceiling while you

2213
02:14:21.039 --> 02:14:23.439
were trying to change a tire and run flats.

2214
02:14:23.840 --> 02:14:26.000
Well, that's just the story that you told. That is

2215
02:14:26.079 --> 02:14:28.560
the story I told. But that's because.

2216
02:14:29.680 --> 02:14:33.279
The man who shot me did not shoot me that

2217
02:14:33.520 --> 02:14:36.920
day as I intended, and I had to have a

2218
02:14:37.000 --> 02:14:38.680
story as to how I got shot.

2219
02:14:38.760 --> 02:14:39.359
So I lied.

2220
02:14:39.840 --> 02:14:42.439
So you lied, And you're saying that people in your

2221
02:14:42.520 --> 02:14:48.079
family and your friends didn't instantly believe that whoever these

2222
02:14:48.199 --> 02:14:51.399
twelve year old marauders were, were back to finish the job.

2223
02:14:53.399 --> 02:14:54.720
You keep using.

2224
02:14:54.800 --> 02:14:57.000
It happen just for a few hours after you had

2225
02:14:57.000 --> 02:14:58.520
been confronted by Chris Wilson.

2226
02:15:00.119 --> 02:15:03.000
I think probably some people may have thought that when

2227
02:15:03.079 --> 02:15:08.239
it first happened, but I think, like Randy Ronnie Mark,

2228
02:15:08.439 --> 02:15:09.279
those guys.

2229
02:15:09.079 --> 02:15:11.319
I think they knew very quickly that.

2230
02:15:13.680 --> 02:15:14.199
This was not.

2231
02:15:18.319 --> 02:15:18.359
That.

2232
02:15:18.520 --> 02:15:20.600
I think they knew this was something that i'd done.

2233
02:15:22.159 --> 02:15:24.960
Shame for you. I asked this before. But shame for

2234
02:15:25.079 --> 02:15:28.760
you is an extraordinary provocation, isn't it.

2235
02:15:28.800 --> 02:15:29.439
Mister Murnat?

2236
02:15:31.399 --> 02:15:36.680
Shame for me is an extraordinary provocation. I don't like

2237
02:15:36.800 --> 02:15:37.439
to be shamed.

2238
02:15:37.800 --> 02:15:43.079
The prospect of humiliating the legacy is an extraordinary provocation

2239
02:15:43.199 --> 02:15:44.319
to you, isn't it, mister Murdon?

2240
02:15:44.840 --> 02:15:47.000
What do you mean by an extraordinary provocation?

2241
02:15:47.960 --> 02:15:50.800
It affects you deeply. It's your biggest concern, is it not.

2242
02:15:51.319 --> 02:15:52.840
No, that's not my biggest concern.

2243
02:15:55.159 --> 02:15:56.560
You're a middle aged man like me.

2244
02:15:57.199 --> 02:16:00.640
I'm fifty four years old. I'm not sure you look

2245
02:16:00.720 --> 02:16:01.920
like you're in better shape than me.

2246
02:16:02.199 --> 02:16:08.760
So no, No, that was actually a couple of years

2247
02:16:08.800 --> 02:16:10.520
behind you in law school. But we never knew each other,

2248
02:16:10.600 --> 02:16:10.840
did we.

2249
02:16:12.359 --> 02:16:13.760
I never knew you. Know, sir.

2250
02:16:17.359 --> 02:16:23.000
Had a very successful career up until this point.

2251
02:16:24.800 --> 02:16:28.119
A question, and the answer to that is no, mister Waters,

2252
02:16:28.119 --> 02:16:30.279
I was an addict for more than twenty years.

2253
02:16:31.399 --> 02:16:34.600
All right, so out, So making millions of dollars over

2254
02:16:34.680 --> 02:16:37.559
over a decade is not having a successful career. Is

2255
02:16:37.600 --> 02:16:38.559
that what you're gonna tell the jury?

2256
02:16:38.879 --> 02:16:42.799
No, that's not a successful career. When you Okay, well,

2257
02:16:42.879 --> 02:16:45.159
let me put up my let me just all right,

2258
02:16:45.159 --> 02:16:45.479
go ahead.

2259
02:16:49.239 --> 02:16:52.319
You know it may have been what you perceive as

2260
02:16:52.399 --> 02:16:55.959
a successful career, but you know I was the one

2261
02:16:56.040 --> 02:16:56.879
who was fighting that.

2262
02:17:01.040 --> 02:17:06.840
You don't have a very high self esteem when you're

2263
02:17:06.840 --> 02:17:15.680
an addict, So I don't deem myself of success.

2264
02:17:16.239 --> 02:17:19.559
Would you agree that, at least outwardly, you're perceived as successful.

2265
02:17:20.600 --> 02:17:23.760
I made. I made, I made a bunch of money,

2266
02:17:23.799 --> 02:17:25.799
if that's what you're wanting to get at.

2267
02:17:26.319 --> 02:17:28.719
No, I'm not actually asking about the perception you were

2268
02:17:28.799 --> 02:17:30.520
perceived as a prominent.

2269
02:17:30.280 --> 02:17:34.000
I tried to be lawyer. How I was perceived lawyer?

2270
02:17:34.079 --> 02:17:38.000
I sure tried to be lived a life of possessing authority.

2271
02:17:39.959 --> 02:17:43.959
Possessing authority, yeah, we saw the badges you just admitted

2272
02:17:44.040 --> 02:17:45.799
of your prominence in the legal community.

2273
02:17:46.200 --> 02:17:48.879
I don't think that I lived a life of possessing authority.

2274
02:17:48.920 --> 02:17:50.520
I never saw myself as that way.

2275
02:17:52.879 --> 02:17:55.120
If you don't think you lived a life of privilege.

2276
02:17:55.639 --> 02:17:57.159
I think I was very privileged.

2277
02:18:02.479 --> 02:18:06.200
But as we moved to June of twenty twenty one,

2278
02:18:06.319 --> 02:18:12.120
you were suffering from a drug addiction. Absolutely, your father

2279
02:18:12.319 --> 02:18:16.840
was termly ill. When I mean as we moved to

2280
02:18:16.920 --> 02:18:17.920
June of twenty twenty one.

2281
02:18:18.319 --> 02:18:21.520
No, sir, he was very ill. He was very ill,

2282
02:18:26.319 --> 02:18:26.920
and you were.

2283
02:18:28.399 --> 02:18:32.159
Coming to a point a financial crisis.

2284
02:18:33.440 --> 02:18:33.799
I was.

2285
02:18:35.280 --> 02:18:40.280
Having financial issues like I'd had many times in the past.

2286
02:18:43.000 --> 02:18:45.159
Mister Murdock, are you a family annihilator?

2287
02:18:47.200 --> 02:18:51.840
A family annihilator you mean like, did I shoot my

2288
02:18:51.959 --> 02:18:52.799
wife and my son?

2289
02:18:53.040 --> 02:18:53.639
Yes? No.

2290
02:18:57.239 --> 02:19:01.040
I would never hurt Maggie Murder, would never hurt Paul

2291
02:19:01.159 --> 02:19:16.600
Murder under any circumstances. Say that, Excuse me say that.

2292
02:19:16.840 --> 02:19:18.760
But you lied to Maggie, didn't you.

2293
02:19:21.000 --> 02:19:22.000
I did lie to Maggie.

2294
02:19:22.280 --> 02:19:23.280
You lied to Paul.

2295
02:19:24.719 --> 02:19:29.520
Sometimes. You lied to your father, I'm sure I did.

2296
02:19:29.600 --> 02:19:30.200
At some point.

2297
02:19:30.799 --> 02:19:32.280
Did you tell him all the stuff you had been

2298
02:19:32.360 --> 02:19:33.799
up to over the years before he died?

2299
02:19:34.959 --> 02:19:35.879
No, I didn't tell him.

2300
02:19:37.319 --> 02:19:38.600
July to your brothers.

2301
02:19:41.120 --> 02:19:45.360
About financial things. Yes, I would have lied to Randy

2302
02:19:45.399 --> 02:19:46.719
at some point, I'm sure.

2303
02:19:47.440 --> 02:19:50.280
July to him about the last time you saw your

2304
02:19:51.159 --> 02:19:56.120
wife and son alive. Did j a lot of their wives?

2305
02:19:58.079 --> 02:19:58.879
I'm sure I did.

2306
02:20:00.040 --> 02:20:05.760
Mary Procter, yes, July to Bark Croctor, Yes. Did you

2307
02:20:05.879 --> 02:20:07.000
lie to the brand Stutters?

2308
02:20:07.399 --> 02:20:07.600
Yes?

2309
02:20:08.000 --> 02:20:09.840
Did you lie to your best friend Chris Wilson?

2310
02:20:11.319 --> 02:20:11.760
Probably?

2311
02:20:14.399 --> 02:20:17.799
Did you lie to your other friend, Baron Bullwear when

2312
02:20:17.799 --> 02:20:18.600
you took his money.

2313
02:20:20.120 --> 02:20:23.680
No, sir, No, I didn't lie like I told you.

2314
02:20:23.799 --> 02:20:25.920
I didn't lie directly to him. I lied to him

2315
02:20:25.959 --> 02:20:28.920
by a mission like like we talked about it me

2316
02:20:29.040 --> 02:20:29.280
he was.

2317
02:20:32.239 --> 02:20:34.120
I didn't talk to him. I didn't see him at

2318
02:20:34.159 --> 02:20:34.520
that time.

2319
02:20:35.120 --> 02:20:38.639
Did you a lot to your law partners? I did

2320
02:20:40.120 --> 02:20:44.159
July to him about the kennels, some of them. July

2321
02:20:44.280 --> 02:20:45.120
to Mark Ball.

2322
02:20:46.879 --> 02:20:47.000
Uh.

2323
02:20:47.600 --> 02:20:49.920
Yeah, I believe based on what Mark said, I believe I.

2324
02:20:49.959 --> 02:20:52.719
Did July to Ronnie Crosby. According to what he said,

2325
02:20:52.719 --> 02:20:55.000
I believe I did July to Johnny Parker.

2326
02:20:57.399 --> 02:21:00.719
I don't believe I ever discussed that with john Did you.

2327
02:21:00.879 --> 02:21:03.000
Tell him about the finances when you borrowed that money

2328
02:21:03.040 --> 02:21:04.159
in July of twenty twenty one?

2329
02:21:07.600 --> 02:21:09.959
I don't know if I lied to him about.

2330
02:21:13.159 --> 02:21:16.440
And I don't Johnny. I don't think Johnny asked me.

2331
02:21:16.479 --> 02:21:18.399
I don't think I had to lie to Johnny about that.

2332
02:21:18.639 --> 02:21:19.719
So I don't know.

2333
02:21:22.319 --> 02:21:24.520
Did you, Well, you didn't certainly didn't disclose to him

2334
02:21:24.559 --> 02:21:26.079
the truth when you borrowed that two hundred and fifty

2335
02:21:26.120 --> 02:21:26.879
thousand dollars.

2336
02:21:26.719 --> 02:21:26.920
Did you.

2337
02:21:27.040 --> 02:21:28.479
I did not tell him what I was going to

2338
02:21:28.600 --> 02:21:28.920
use it for.

2339
02:21:29.000 --> 02:21:31.360
I mean, didn't we have to say before that not

2340
02:21:31.479 --> 02:21:33.360
telling the whole truth was the same as telling the lie.

2341
02:21:34.719 --> 02:21:35.200
Sure it is.

2342
02:21:36.040 --> 02:21:37.920
You don't think that's a lie, though I don't.

2343
02:21:38.440 --> 02:21:40.879
I'm just saying, mister Woods, I'm not taking issue with that.

2344
02:21:41.079 --> 02:21:42.120
But I don't even know that.

2345
02:21:42.200 --> 02:21:44.639
Johnny and I, I mean, Johnny had loaned me money

2346
02:21:44.760 --> 02:21:47.639
numerous times. It wasn't any long sit down discussion where

2347
02:21:47.680 --> 02:21:50.040
Johnny wanted to know exactly what I was doing with it.

2348
02:21:50.559 --> 02:21:53.479
That conversation would have been I needed it. Johnny was

2349
02:21:53.600 --> 02:21:55.520
always willing to help me, and that would have been

2350
02:21:55.600 --> 02:22:00.360
the conversation. So on that specific event that I lie

2351
02:22:00.399 --> 02:22:01.239
to him, I don't know.

2352
02:22:01.559 --> 02:22:03.479
Yeah, he ended up being out four hundred seventy seven

2353
02:22:03.520 --> 02:22:05.559
thousand dollars, didn't he He ended up being out a

2354
02:22:05.639 --> 02:22:11.000
lot of money, and thank you for your qualifications as

2355
02:22:11.079 --> 02:22:18.440
to that. Did July to Leek Coke, I don't know.

2356
02:22:19.079 --> 02:22:20.920
I don't know if Lee Cope was around when I

2357
02:22:21.000 --> 02:22:21.639
said that or not.

2358
02:22:22.200 --> 02:22:24.680
Juli to Danny Henderson, I did a lot of Danny.

2359
02:22:25.120 --> 02:22:26.760
Jul to Jenny secondary.

2360
02:22:28.319 --> 02:22:31.879
I don't about finances, Yes, I did.

2361
02:22:32.280 --> 02:22:34.120
You ever didn't ever talk to her about the kennels.

2362
02:22:35.159 --> 02:22:36.280
No, I wouldn't think so.

2363
02:22:36.920 --> 02:22:38.159
July to in that Grizswold.

2364
02:22:39.079 --> 02:22:39.440
I did.

2365
02:22:39.959 --> 02:22:44.799
Juli of Christy Jerald, your other secretary for paralegal.

2366
02:22:45.239 --> 02:22:47.159
I don't believe she and I discussed. I would have

2367
02:22:47.280 --> 02:22:48.360
at some point, I'm sure.

2368
02:22:50.399 --> 02:22:51.479
JULYI to Michael Gunning.

2369
02:22:54.959 --> 02:22:57.639
I'm sure I did at some point, but mean, Michael

2370
02:22:57.719 --> 02:23:00.799
wasn't involved in any of this, so I don't know

2371
02:23:00.959 --> 02:23:03.319
that any of this ever came up with Michael.

2372
02:23:04.559 --> 02:23:06.639
July to your clients. Did you lie to Pamela Pinkney,

2373
02:23:07.120 --> 02:23:08.760
I did Natasha Thomas.

2374
02:23:10.559 --> 02:23:12.559
I don't know that I dealt with Natasha, but I

2375
02:23:12.680 --> 02:23:18.040
certainly lied about that. Again, I don't know that I

2376
02:23:18.120 --> 02:23:20.680
talked to Keene, but I certainly lied about that.

2377
02:23:21.280 --> 02:23:24.200
Arthur Badger I did the Pliler Girl.

2378
02:23:26.719 --> 02:23:29.639
That's I'm not sure that I talked specifically to them,

2379
02:23:29.680 --> 02:23:30.879
but I lied about that.

2380
02:23:31.879 --> 02:23:37.879
Dion Martin, I lied to Dion Johnny Bush Yes, Manuel Christiani.

2381
02:23:41.639 --> 02:23:44.440
I didn't have any conversations with him, but I certainly

2382
02:23:44.520 --> 02:23:45.079
lied about it.

2383
02:23:45.559 --> 02:23:55.600
Jamie Rischer yes, Randy Drawdy yes, Jordan Jenks yes, Mary

2384
02:23:55.680 --> 02:24:02.520
Duncan yes, Adrianna Hay yes, Angel Gary.

2385
02:24:04.760 --> 02:24:04.959
Yes.

2386
02:24:05.520 --> 02:24:15.520
Christopher Anderson, Yes, the least Mallory, yes, Thomas Moore. No,

2387
02:24:17.280 --> 02:24:20.559
you never lied to him. You just took his money.

2388
02:24:20.600 --> 02:24:22.239
He never had actually a lot of his faces what

2389
02:24:22.319 --> 02:24:22.719
you're saying.

2390
02:24:25.120 --> 02:24:27.159
He and I never had a conversation. But I did

2391
02:24:27.239 --> 02:24:29.520
take that I did take those that money.

2392
02:24:30.239 --> 02:24:32.319
Did you lie to Tony Saderfield? Just a couple of

2393
02:24:32.360 --> 02:24:40.040
months before June seventh, we saw the text. Do you

2394
02:24:40.079 --> 02:24:40.760
want me to get it out?

2395
02:24:42.959 --> 02:24:45.200
Just remind me. There's been a lot. Just remind me

2396
02:24:45.280 --> 02:24:45.680
what it was.

2397
02:24:48.000 --> 02:24:50.559
Let me show you what's been marked four sixty three.

2398
02:24:51.319 --> 02:24:52.239
Then I don't remember that.

2399
02:24:52.319 --> 02:24:54.879
It was that date too, that was in April twenty

2400
02:24:54.920 --> 02:24:58.360
twenty one. Was that right where you texted him and

2401
02:24:58.639 --> 02:25:01.040
tell him how hard you're working on the case, when

2402
02:25:01.040 --> 02:25:03.920
in fact you had stolen millions of dollars from him?

2403
02:25:05.959 --> 02:25:08.399
Had any Ciderfield who got up on this stand and

2404
02:25:08.479 --> 02:25:10.280
told the jury about that?

2405
02:25:10.760 --> 02:25:18.920
I texted him on April twelveth so five weeks before.

2406
02:25:21.040 --> 02:25:25.760
Jane seven, told him everything was okay, you're working hard, right,

2407
02:25:28.799 --> 02:25:29.920
it's a complex case.

2408
02:25:34.799 --> 02:25:36.520
Yeah, I told him I was working on the case.

2409
02:25:39.719 --> 02:25:42.799
He was the son of your longtime housekeeper, Gloria.

2410
02:25:46.399 --> 02:25:48.280
I'm sorry he was the son of your.

2411
02:25:48.239 --> 02:25:52.200
Longtime housekeeper, Gloria, who had served your family for many years.

2412
02:25:52.719 --> 02:25:56.360
That's correct, And you stole millions from those boys.

2413
02:25:58.959 --> 02:25:59.959
I stole those bunks.

2414
02:26:00.280 --> 02:26:02.719
And he and his family had started asking questions as

2415
02:26:02.799 --> 02:26:03.840
we moved to June seventh.

2416
02:26:04.159 --> 02:26:10.200
Did not happen, No, I mean there wasn't any rising

2417
02:26:10.280 --> 02:26:17.280
them asking questions, No, sir. I mean he periodically checked

2418
02:26:17.280 --> 02:26:21.719
in and asked me questions. But you know it had

2419
02:26:21.799 --> 02:26:29.319
come out long before this. I believe in the Island

2420
02:26:29.399 --> 02:26:34.600
packet that there had been a settlement of five hundred

2421
02:26:34.639 --> 02:26:39.280
thousand dollars, But I mean that had been months and months,

2422
02:26:39.479 --> 02:26:47.399
if I'm not mistaken, And so I didn't notice any

2423
02:26:48.680 --> 02:26:52.000
uptick in Tony asking questions. And I don't believe that

2424
02:26:52.159 --> 02:26:56.639
there was any uptick in Tony asking questions before June

2425
02:26:56.680 --> 02:26:57.159
the seventh.

2426
02:26:59.399 --> 02:27:02.079
So you just just, gratuitously, out of the blues, decided

2427
02:27:02.120 --> 02:27:06.040
to lie to him and send that text. Or were

2428
02:27:06.040 --> 02:27:08.760
there things going on externally that caused you to need

2429
02:27:08.799 --> 02:27:12.399
to head him off at the past before further questions

2430
02:27:12.440 --> 02:27:14.360
started to be asked about money. You couldn't make that

2431
02:27:14.760 --> 02:27:15.559
at back point He's on.

2432
02:27:16.440 --> 02:27:20.280
No, I don't think there was anything I mean on

2433
02:27:20.440 --> 02:27:26.040
April twenty. First, I don't know what external factors you

2434
02:27:26.200 --> 02:27:26.799
talking about.

2435
02:27:28.680 --> 02:27:30.000
Do you want to explain that one anymore?

2436
02:27:33.079 --> 02:27:36.360
Explain what whatever you want? I just want to answer

2437
02:27:36.360 --> 02:27:36.799
you question.

2438
02:27:36.959 --> 02:27:40.959
Mister Waters lied to everyone about the side of the

2439
02:27:41.079 --> 02:27:44.000
road that people that came to stopped to help in

2440
02:27:44.040 --> 02:27:47.719
the ambulance folks and the nine to one one and

2441
02:27:47.840 --> 02:27:51.639
Ryan Kelly and the composite sketch artists and all of them. Correct.

2442
02:27:53.239 --> 02:27:55.120
I lied to a lot of people about that.

2443
02:28:00.120 --> 02:28:04.799
You know why people lie, mister Murdock, because they know

2444
02:28:04.879 --> 02:28:07.040
they've done something wrong. For the most time, I do,

2445
02:28:09.319 --> 02:28:11.799
and you've been able to lie quickly and easily and

2446
02:28:11.920 --> 02:28:14.879
convincingly if you think it'll save your skin for well

2447
02:28:14.959 --> 02:28:18.559
over a decade. Isn't that true?

2448
02:28:20.319 --> 02:28:27.319
I have lied well over a decade, and you want

2449
02:28:27.360 --> 02:28:28.200
this jury.

2450
02:28:30.680 --> 02:28:38.799
To believe a story manufactured to fit the evidence that

2451
02:28:39.000 --> 02:28:45.159
you brought forth just yesterday after hearing this trial's worth

2452
02:28:45.200 --> 02:28:57.680
of testimony. No, sir, that's not correct, mister Murdock. We

2453
02:28:57.760 --> 02:28:59.920
went through this for a while. But you remember the

2454
02:29:00.040 --> 02:29:03.520
beginning of your testimony, I asked you whether or not

2455
02:29:03.680 --> 02:29:10.799
you agreed that trying to explain your presence on the

2456
02:29:10.879 --> 02:29:13.799
kennel video was the most important part of your testimony

2457
02:29:13.879 --> 02:29:16.920
before this jury? You remember that and you said, oh,

2458
02:29:17.079 --> 02:29:18.959
not the most important. I said it was at least important.

2459
02:29:19.000 --> 02:29:20.440
You recall that from yesterday.

2460
02:29:21.239 --> 02:29:23.120
I recall you asking those questions, just sir.

2461
02:29:23.680 --> 02:29:25.079
And you agree it's important, don't you.

2462
02:29:26.559 --> 02:29:30.399
I agree that as an important component, But I think

2463
02:29:30.440 --> 02:29:32.079
there's a lot of important components.

2464
02:29:33.399 --> 02:29:41.920
And you testified yesterday and during cross yesterday and cross today.

2465
02:29:43.719 --> 02:29:46.959
It's kind of evolved on the fact of the factors

2466
02:29:47.000 --> 02:29:50.440
that led you to decide to lie at some point

2467
02:29:50.680 --> 02:29:54.200
during that interview with David Owen. Correct.

2468
02:29:55.399 --> 02:29:57.879
I disagree with that, and I don't think those factors

2469
02:29:57.920 --> 02:30:01.040
have evolved. I mean, you've asked some most specific questions,

2470
02:30:01.120 --> 02:30:04.559
but those factors are still the same factors. You may

2471
02:30:04.639 --> 02:30:07.520
have asked questions and gained a little more detail, but

2472
02:30:07.639 --> 02:30:09.000
those factors haven't changed.

2473
02:30:09.120 --> 02:30:11.319
But it was the dope paranoia. It was the fact

2474
02:30:11.360 --> 02:30:14.319
that the deputy took your GSR. It was the fact

2475
02:30:14.360 --> 02:30:16.920
that your law partners and Greg Alexander and the sheriff

2476
02:30:17.000 --> 02:30:19.360
were telling you you needed to have a lawyer before

2477
02:30:19.360 --> 02:30:22.559
we talked to police. It was a factor that you

2478
02:30:22.680 --> 02:30:24.239
got in the car with Dave Owen and thought he

2479
02:30:24.399 --> 02:30:27.840
was somebody else from some case ten years ago. Correct.

2480
02:30:30.520 --> 02:30:34.799
That believing David Owens was the person involved.

2481
02:30:36.360 --> 02:30:39.680
In the case that I talked about was one of

2482
02:30:39.760 --> 02:30:42.479
the factors that caused me to distrust slid Right.

2483
02:30:42.559 --> 02:30:45.079
And then also you said that they started asking you

2484
02:30:45.200 --> 02:30:48.360
about in that first interview about your relationship with Maggie

2485
02:30:48.399 --> 02:30:50.719
and Paul, and that's one thing you mentioned as well.

2486
02:30:50.799 --> 02:30:54.120
Correct, And that was certainly something that contributed to me

2487
02:30:54.280 --> 02:30:55.440
having paranoid thinking.

2488
02:30:57.799 --> 02:31:01.040
Playing the Daniel Green bodycom video twenty twenty six.

2489
02:31:04.760 --> 02:31:06.680
Put a couple of feels.

2490
02:31:08.680 --> 02:31:11.520
About I'm gonna chick there there.

2491
02:31:13.520 --> 02:31:14.479
They are paid on it.

2492
02:31:15.559 --> 02:31:37.360
Yes, said, that's that's what it looks, right, you had.

2493
02:31:37.239 --> 02:31:47.040
A policy hair here that mm hmm, there's no grub Okay.

2494
02:31:50.719 --> 02:31:52.360
When was the last time you were here with them

2495
02:31:53.280 --> 02:31:54.559
or talk to them or anything like that?

2496
02:31:58.479 --> 02:32:03.479
Mm hmmm. It was earlier tonight. H.

2497
02:32:04.360 --> 02:32:07.040
I don't know the exact time, but I left.

2498
02:32:07.079 --> 02:32:08.319
I was struggling going an hour and.

2499
02:32:08.319 --> 02:32:10.360
A half of my mom's and I saw them about

2500
02:32:10.399 --> 02:32:11.680
forty five minutes before that.

2501
02:32:16.840 --> 02:32:22.079
And it'll scharge of dream correct, Yeah, I'm Sergey dreaming

2502
02:32:22.239 --> 02:32:25.760
And at that point in time, Sled was not there.

2503
02:32:27.239 --> 02:32:31.719
No one had gotten GSR from you, Your law partners

2504
02:32:32.120 --> 02:32:33.479
or Sheriff Hill were not there.

2505
02:32:34.399 --> 02:32:34.959
It's correct.

2506
02:32:35.520 --> 02:32:37.639
No one had asked you about your relationships.

2507
02:32:39.000 --> 02:32:41.799
David Owen was not there, It's correct.

2508
02:32:42.000 --> 02:32:44.760
But just still told the same lie. And all those

2509
02:32:44.879 --> 02:32:48.079
reasons that you just gave this jury about the most

2510
02:32:48.120 --> 02:32:52.600
important part of your testimony was a lie to. Isn't

2511
02:32:52.639 --> 02:32:53.680
that true, mister Murdock.

2512
02:32:54.280 --> 02:32:56.200
I disagree with that nothing further.

2513
02:32:57.920 --> 02:33:03.040
I fucking love that. What a way to end your

2514
02:33:03.280 --> 02:33:07.680
questioning now. At this point, the defense were buttles and

2515
02:33:07.760 --> 02:33:10.040
they focus on a couple of things with regard to

2516
02:33:10.120 --> 02:33:14.200
Alex movements and the roadside shooting and what Alex intent was.

2517
02:33:15.200 --> 02:33:15.760
And here's that.

2518
02:33:17.559 --> 02:33:23.799
This is in evidence, and this is Agent Rudowski's a

2519
02:33:24.120 --> 02:33:30.280
timeline that says Maggie Murdoch's phone iPhone shows fifty nine

2520
02:33:30.319 --> 02:33:33.959
steps traveled between eight fifty three fifteen and eight fifty

2521
02:33:34.520 --> 02:33:38.319
five thirty two. Were you walking with Maggie Murdoch's phone

2522
02:33:38.440 --> 02:33:39.280
during that period of time.

2523
02:33:39.639 --> 02:33:42.239
I wasn't welcome with Maggie's phone anytime that night.

2524
02:33:43.959 --> 02:33:47.040
And if you'll look at Agent Rudowski's entries as their

2525
02:33:48.399 --> 02:33:53.639
entry of her phone showing steps during any time between

2526
02:33:54.639 --> 02:33:57.959
nine o two and nine oh six, You see any

2527
02:33:58.040 --> 02:34:00.760
on this page from eight to fifty three read to

2528
02:34:00.840 --> 02:34:03.879
eight fifty five. No, sir, If you'll turn the next page,

2529
02:34:06.040 --> 02:34:13.840
page forty six, going down to your steps, is there

2530
02:34:13.879 --> 02:34:22.760
any recording of phone steps, phone recording steps recording to

2531
02:34:22.879 --> 02:34:25.479
the data we now have from Maggie's phone at any

2532
02:34:25.520 --> 02:34:27.399
point in time up to nine oh.

2533
02:34:27.360 --> 02:34:28.760
Two, No, sir.

2534
02:34:34.239 --> 02:34:41.040
And had you repeatedly asked Slid to get the data

2535
02:34:42.120 --> 02:34:46.239
from the on star from the cell phones to evaluate

2536
02:34:46.360 --> 02:34:49.239
whether your phone and maggie phone Maggie's phone were ever

2537
02:34:49.399 --> 02:34:52.040
moving at the same time, made that multiple requests.

2538
02:34:52.200 --> 02:34:56.600
I repeatedly asked David Owens about that information.

2539
02:35:00.000 --> 02:35:03.479
When you asked that question, You're aware that Maggie's phone

2540
02:35:03.479 --> 02:35:06.559
had been located, you know, down the road a mile

2541
02:35:07.120 --> 02:35:09.159
or I mean half a mile or more? Is that right?

2542
02:35:09.959 --> 02:35:11.879
Yeah? I knew where her phone had been located.

2543
02:35:12.399 --> 02:35:14.399
And why was it Why was it important to you

2544
02:35:14.559 --> 02:35:15.479
to get that information?

2545
02:35:16.799 --> 02:35:23.319
Because I knew that whoever had done this to them

2546
02:35:24.559 --> 02:35:29.719
had Maggie's phone, and I knew that my phone.

2547
02:35:31.680 --> 02:35:41.680
And Maggie's phone in my car were never together at

2548
02:35:41.719 --> 02:35:45.840
any point in time. Sure, now you have.

2549
02:35:48.159 --> 02:35:52.879
Given inaccurate times and many statements to law enforcement in

2550
02:35:52.959 --> 02:35:58.840
this case, have you not? I did, and we were

2551
02:35:58.840 --> 02:36:01.840
reviewed some of those in your examination. I mean one

2552
02:36:02.079 --> 02:36:06.840
was Paul getting to Moselle around five pm? Do you

2553
02:36:06.879 --> 02:36:07.280
remember that?

2554
02:36:08.120 --> 02:36:08.319
I do?

2555
02:36:08.639 --> 02:36:11.520
Were you lying to Agent Owen? Is there anybody when

2556
02:36:11.520 --> 02:36:13.600
you said Paul got there at five pm?

2557
02:36:15.000 --> 02:36:15.040
No?

2558
02:36:15.440 --> 02:36:17.680
I wasn't lying to them. I mean I thought that

2559
02:36:17.840 --> 02:36:18.360
at the time.

2560
02:36:19.319 --> 02:36:19.920
And when you.

2561
02:36:21.440 --> 02:36:23.680
Most of the times, when a lot of the times

2562
02:36:23.719 --> 02:36:26.760
when I gave times, I qualified them and say, but

2563
02:36:27.360 --> 02:36:28.399
you know you can look at this.

2564
02:36:29.000 --> 02:36:32.760
I pointed them to my office, to the car log

2565
02:36:32.920 --> 02:36:35.280
like to the key card like we talked about on

2566
02:36:35.520 --> 02:36:36.959
my phone, or my own star.

2567
02:36:38.639 --> 02:36:39.120
And when you.

2568
02:36:42.680 --> 02:36:44.399
Told the agents that you thought you got to the

2569
02:36:44.479 --> 02:36:47.719
office eight thirty nine o'clock on that morning of June seventh,

2570
02:36:48.000 --> 02:36:48.879
were you wrong? Right?

2571
02:36:49.840 --> 02:36:50.399
I was wrong?

2572
02:36:51.000 --> 02:36:51.600
Were you lying?

2573
02:36:52.760 --> 02:36:52.799
No?

2574
02:36:52.959 --> 02:36:53.639
I wasn't lying.

2575
02:36:57.719 --> 02:37:04.159
And when Deputy Green drove up and first you had

2576
02:37:04.200 --> 02:37:06.840
to first encounter with him, I believe you told him

2577
02:37:06.840 --> 02:37:10.959
that you had been gone to your mom's house for

2578
02:37:11.079 --> 02:37:12.559
an hour and hour and a half.

2579
02:37:14.319 --> 02:37:16.280
Is that right? We just heard it.

2580
02:37:20.239 --> 02:37:23.319
The last one, Yes, sir, Yeah, hour and a half.

2581
02:37:23.440 --> 02:37:25.239
I think that is what I taught him.

2582
02:37:25.200 --> 02:37:29.840
Hour and a half, and that the last time you

2583
02:37:29.959 --> 02:37:33.159
saw Maggie and Paul was forty five minutes before that.

2584
02:37:34.799 --> 02:37:35.760
Yeah, that's what I said.

2585
02:37:36.639 --> 02:37:40.719
And when you spoke to Agent Green, I mean, Deputy Green,

2586
02:37:40.840 --> 02:37:43.760
it was about I think the record show they didn't

2587
02:37:43.799 --> 02:37:46.879
arrive on the scene until ten twenty two or something

2588
02:37:46.959 --> 02:37:47.159
like that.

2589
02:37:47.319 --> 02:37:47.680
Is that right?

2590
02:37:49.159 --> 02:37:51.120
That sounds right? And I mean I think that's what

2591
02:37:51.280 --> 02:37:53.600
the record show. That sounds right.

2592
02:37:55.360 --> 02:37:59.120
And that were you lying to agent excuse me, Deputy

2593
02:37:59.200 --> 02:38:02.360
Green with when you told him what time how long

2594
02:38:02.440 --> 02:38:04.959
you thought you'd been at your mother's and the last

2595
02:38:05.000 --> 02:38:06.120
time you saw Maggie and Paul.

2596
02:38:06.639 --> 02:38:08.159
No, sir, I wasn't lying to him.

2597
02:38:12.440 --> 02:38:14.319
Were you trying to mislead him in any way?

2598
02:38:15.840 --> 02:38:18.000
No, sir, not when mister Green got there.

2599
02:38:20.360 --> 02:38:24.799
Now, you've admitted the first few questions that I ask

2600
02:38:24.920 --> 02:38:29.520
you yesterday and multiple times today, that that that you

2601
02:38:29.719 --> 02:38:33.239
lied to Agent Owen and Dephanie Rutland and Agent Owen

2602
02:38:33.280 --> 02:38:40.559
and Agent Croft and on a couple occasions about your

2603
02:38:40.559 --> 02:38:41.840
whereabouts following dinner.

2604
02:38:42.239 --> 02:38:42.559
Correct.

2605
02:38:42.920 --> 02:38:46.760
I did light to them as we discussed and impeatedly.

2606
02:38:46.719 --> 02:38:54.239
And you've explained that it was just addiction, opioid induced

2607
02:38:55.520 --> 02:38:57.399
parent paranoia just couldn't shake.

2608
02:38:58.479 --> 02:38:58.920
Is that right?

2609
02:38:59.559 --> 02:38:59.920
That's right?

2610
02:39:00.319 --> 02:39:03.840
You know, like I said, there's certain things anything make

2611
02:39:03.920 --> 02:39:06.120
you paranoid. But I could get over it really quickly.

2612
02:39:06.319 --> 02:39:09.159
But that night I did it and you had a

2613
02:39:09.360 --> 02:39:10.559
bag of pills in your pocket?

2614
02:39:10.639 --> 02:39:10.959
Did you not?

2615
02:39:11.639 --> 02:39:11.959
I did?

2616
02:39:14.280 --> 02:39:22.079
And when you got down to the kennels, We're not

2617
02:39:22.120 --> 02:39:26.639
going to repeat all that, but did you ever see

2618
02:39:26.719 --> 02:39:29.879
anybody down there? Anybody else?

2619
02:39:31.479 --> 02:39:34.680
Now, there was nobody. There wasn't anybody down there when

2620
02:39:34.719 --> 02:39:35.239
I was there.

2621
02:39:36.479 --> 02:39:41.680
And did you believe that the information, whether you were

2622
02:39:41.719 --> 02:39:45.879
there or not there, would advance their investigation.

2623
02:39:45.479 --> 02:39:46.200
An any way?

2624
02:39:46.879 --> 02:39:46.920
No?

2625
02:39:47.280 --> 02:39:49.040
I didn't. I didn't think that.

2626
02:39:50.200 --> 02:39:51.159
And why didn't you think that?

2627
02:39:52.920 --> 02:39:56.840
Because they were fine in doing good when I left there.

2628
02:39:59.200 --> 02:40:00.840
On the on on one call.

2629
02:40:01.319 --> 02:40:01.440
Uh.

2630
02:40:03.680 --> 02:40:05.879
Do you remember that the call first went to Hampton?

2631
02:40:07.360 --> 02:40:10.559
I don't remember that, but I know that now.

2632
02:40:11.479 --> 02:40:13.559
And and and what we played here in the court

2633
02:40:13.559 --> 02:40:15.959
in your testimony was the Callidon County handoff.

2634
02:40:16.840 --> 02:40:17.520
Do you recall that.

2635
02:40:19.479 --> 02:40:20.280
I do recall that.

2636
02:40:22.120 --> 02:40:24.639
I think at some point the part in Hampton might

2637
02:40:24.719 --> 02:40:27.079
have gotten played too, didn't it, but I know the

2638
02:40:27.159 --> 02:40:29.120
main part was to call them part.

2639
02:40:29.200 --> 02:40:32.600
But it's like a minute into the call.

2640
02:40:33.040 --> 02:40:35.399
But initially it went to Hampton and then subsequently it

2641
02:40:35.479 --> 02:40:36.399
was transferred to call.

2642
02:40:36.959 --> 02:40:37.399
That's right.

2643
02:40:38.399 --> 02:40:40.799
And then a minute or so into the Callington call,

2644
02:40:40.879 --> 02:40:42.319
you said, I've been up to it, now, do you

2645
02:40:42.360 --> 02:40:42.719
remember that.

2646
02:40:43.440 --> 02:40:46.840
I do remember saying that. I remember hearing it. I

2647
02:40:46.920 --> 02:40:51.280
don't remember saying that, but I remember hearing it. And

2648
02:40:51.399 --> 02:41:08.399
that's I mean that that is accurate. And by up

2649
02:41:08.479 --> 02:41:10.280
to it, at that point, I had.

2650
02:41:10.280 --> 02:41:12.120
Gone all the way up to them.

2651
02:41:12.479 --> 02:41:15.879
At that point when I first got out, I was close,

2652
02:41:15.959 --> 02:41:19.120
but I wasn't right at them, I don't think right.

2653
02:41:22.760 --> 02:41:26.520
You were asked about the roadside shooting and and your

2654
02:41:26.600 --> 02:41:28.760
intent was to end your life that day, was or not?

2655
02:41:29.360 --> 02:41:33.399
It was new question, and.

2656
02:41:37.079 --> 02:41:40.440
And you were shot but not killed, and then you

2657
02:41:41.159 --> 02:41:43.239
made up a lot to law enforcement about.

2658
02:41:43.040 --> 02:41:45.000
What happened, right, That's correct?

2659
02:41:45.719 --> 02:41:48.520
Were you trying to protect Curtis Aity Smith by doing that?

2660
02:41:50.600 --> 02:41:56.559
Was I trying to protect Curtis ad Smith? Yes, I

2661
02:41:56.639 --> 02:41:59.879
mean I don't know exactly at all had to come

2662
02:42:00.040 --> 02:42:02.200
together so quick. I don't know that I was trying

2663
02:42:02.239 --> 02:42:06.639
to protect Curtis Eddie Smith. I may have been, but

2664
02:42:06.879 --> 02:42:10.399
it was just you know, I wasn't supposed to be there,

2665
02:42:10.799 --> 02:42:11.280
and then.

2666
02:42:12.959 --> 02:42:13.319
I was.

2667
02:42:15.040 --> 02:42:16.680
When you say I wasn't supposed to be there, what

2668
02:42:16.959 --> 02:42:17.559
do you mean by that.

2669
02:42:18.120 --> 02:42:21.159
I intended for him to I mean I intended to

2670
02:42:21.239 --> 02:42:23.440
be gone. I intended for him to shoot me, and

2671
02:42:23.559 --> 02:42:25.799
I intended to be gone.

2672
02:42:26.760 --> 02:42:32.120
And the one thing, the main, my main concern at

2673
02:42:32.239 --> 02:42:38.840
that point was that I did not want Buster. I

2674
02:42:39.000 --> 02:42:42.360
did not want Buster, knowing that I had tried to

2675
02:42:42.600 --> 02:42:48.159
do that, That was my motivation in telling that story.

2676
02:42:51.079 --> 02:43:00.440
Did you eventually voluntarily conveyed Agent Kelly and others that

2677
02:43:00.600 --> 02:43:01.559
that was a fabrication?

2678
02:43:02.200 --> 02:43:05.840
I did? I did after I don't know a few

2679
02:43:05.920 --> 02:43:06.319
days in.

2680
02:43:09.399 --> 02:43:14.159
Detox, when I finally got over those initial it's where

2681
02:43:14.200 --> 02:43:14.719
I could.

2682
02:43:17.239 --> 02:43:24.760
Function. I think I told you first, Then I think

2683
02:43:24.799 --> 02:43:25.520
I told Buster.

2684
02:43:27.000 --> 02:43:29.159
Then I think I told Randy and John, and y'all

2685
02:43:29.319 --> 02:43:34.479
arranged either the next day or two days later to

2686
02:43:34.639 --> 02:43:37.120
come and we called Ryan Kelly.

2687
02:43:38.280 --> 02:43:42.639
I'll let you. You've lied to your family over many years,

2688
02:43:42.799 --> 02:43:43.159
have you not?

2689
02:43:43.959 --> 02:43:48.959
I lied to my family about my addiction, and.

2690
02:43:49.079 --> 02:43:52.399
You hid from them you were stealing client money, did

2691
02:43:52.479 --> 02:43:52.639
you not?

2692
02:43:53.040 --> 02:43:55.680
Oh? I never They didn't know anything about that.

2693
02:43:58.159 --> 02:44:03.639
And you've lied to your law partner about financial dealings

2694
02:44:03.719 --> 02:44:04.719
and perhaps your addiction.

2695
02:44:06.920 --> 02:44:10.000
Yes, and you've lied to.

2696
02:44:10.000 --> 02:44:18.239
Law enforcement about not going down to the kennels after dinner,

2697
02:44:18.319 --> 02:44:20.520
but eating dinner and taking a nap.

2698
02:44:21.000 --> 02:44:21.399
Did you not?

2699
02:44:21.799 --> 02:44:22.920
I did all?

2700
02:44:23.040 --> 02:44:23.159
Right?

2701
02:44:24.360 --> 02:44:24.760
Right here?

2702
02:44:25.319 --> 02:44:31.399
Turn up those speakers right here, The defense asked the

2703
02:44:31.639 --> 02:44:35.840
question we all want to know by this point, directly

2704
02:44:36.680 --> 02:44:39.559
to Alex Murdall's face.

2705
02:44:40.440 --> 02:44:42.319
Alex, did you murder Maggie?

2706
02:44:44.239 --> 02:44:46.639
I would never hurt Maggie?

2707
02:44:47.719 --> 02:44:48.600
Did you murder Paul?

2708
02:44:49.200 --> 02:44:55.639
I would never hurt Paul. Yes, I was under the

2709
02:44:55.799 --> 02:44:58.440
pressure that they're talking about here. I can promise you

2710
02:44:59.000 --> 02:45:04.639
I would hurt myself else before I would hurt one

2711
02:45:04.680 --> 02:45:08.200
of them without a doubt.

2712
02:45:11.360 --> 02:45:12.840
Thank you. That's all the questions from here.

2713
02:45:13.840 --> 02:45:19.079
Well, what do you think? Did he sound convincing? But

2714
02:45:19.239 --> 02:45:23.760
waters wasn't quite dumb without He provides his own rebuttle

2715
02:45:25.000 --> 02:45:27.159
with this, said.

2716
02:45:29.319 --> 02:45:29.840
That you were.

2717
02:45:29.799 --> 02:45:32.719
Concerned when you talked to David Owen about the bag

2718
02:45:32.799 --> 02:45:34.319
of pills in your pocket. Correct?

2719
02:45:38.639 --> 02:45:40.600
I mean, no, sir, I don't know. I'm not saying

2720
02:45:40.600 --> 02:45:43.159
that I was concerned about that. I don't think I

2721
02:45:43.280 --> 02:45:45.520
told you I was concerned about that. I'm just telling

2722
02:45:45.559 --> 02:45:49.040
you that was that was a fact. I had a

2723
02:45:49.079 --> 02:45:51.280
bag of pills in my pocket, and that was one

2724
02:45:51.319 --> 02:45:54.000
of the things that was one of the many things

2725
02:45:54.319 --> 02:45:56.600
that came together that night.

2726
02:45:56.920 --> 02:45:59.239
And you're trying to tell this jury that has a

2727
02:45:59.360 --> 02:46:07.239
reasonable well husband and father in this situation, concerned about

2728
02:46:07.239 --> 02:46:09.840
a bag of pills in your pocket was more important

2729
02:46:09.920 --> 02:46:14.559
to you than telling law enforcement and narring the time

2730
02:46:15.680 --> 02:46:18.159
when you last saw your wife and son a lot.

2731
02:46:19.159 --> 02:46:21.000
That's what you want to convince Ssteria.

2732
02:46:21.200 --> 02:46:24.440
Know, because I mean, the bag of pills in my

2733
02:46:24.600 --> 02:46:29.840
pocket was not what I was concerned about sitting in there.

2734
02:46:29.920 --> 02:46:31.760
It was, as I said, it was one of the

2735
02:46:32.040 --> 02:46:33.879
many things that was going on.

2736
02:46:34.239 --> 02:46:37.600
But I wasn't sitting there worried about those pills in

2737
02:46:37.719 --> 02:46:38.200
my pocket.

2738
02:46:40.440 --> 02:46:43.879
You were asked about requesting.

2739
02:46:45.520 --> 02:46:46.159
The phone and.

2740
02:46:47.879 --> 02:46:54.319
Automobile data, and that was because as a prosecutor and

2741
02:46:54.440 --> 02:46:59.719
a lawyer, you had been manufacturing an alibi to cover

2742
02:46:59.799 --> 02:47:00.479
your tracks.

2743
02:47:01.879 --> 02:47:03.600
No, so that's absolutely wrong.

2744
02:47:05.159 --> 02:47:07.879
You ad met you were wrong about a lot of

2745
02:47:08.000 --> 02:47:15.639
things and what you tall law enforcement about June seventh, correct.

2746
02:47:18.760 --> 02:47:21.799
I was I was wrong about things.

2747
02:47:27.399 --> 02:47:28.239
Some things.

2748
02:47:31.200 --> 02:47:38.799
You're asked whether or not you voluntarily confessed to Agent Kelly,

2749
02:47:39.840 --> 02:47:46.399
but you only did so after being confronted with undeniable information.

2750
02:47:47.799 --> 02:47:51.440
Correct, No, sir, that's that's not correct at all.

2751
02:47:51.520 --> 02:47:56.000
What I was told is that, and I believe this

2752
02:47:56.120 --> 02:47:59.000
came from Randy. What I was told is that Slid

2753
02:47:59.479 --> 02:48:04.440
had come up with some information that seemed like it

2754
02:48:04.559 --> 02:48:06.920
was consistent with my story and they needed me to

2755
02:48:07.040 --> 02:48:11.639
verify some things, is what they told me. And you know,

2756
02:48:13.000 --> 02:48:18.360
I knew that resources had already been wasted. I didn't

2757
02:48:18.360 --> 02:48:20.120
want them wasting any more resources.

2758
02:48:21.040 --> 02:48:24.319
And I told them the truth, but there wasn't any

2759
02:48:25.319 --> 02:48:27.239
Nobody had presented me with any evidence.

2760
02:48:29.559 --> 02:48:33.159
And you just testified that you told Jim Griffin first. Correct.

2761
02:48:34.559 --> 02:48:36.440
I believe that I told Jim Griffin first.

2762
02:48:36.520 --> 02:48:39.000
But at that time, you didn't say anything about those kennels.

2763
02:48:39.040 --> 02:48:39.319
Did you.

2764
02:48:41.559 --> 02:48:44.399
To Jim Griffin at that time? No, sirah, I didn't.

2765
02:48:45.559 --> 02:48:48.479
When you testified on direct yesterday and you were asked

2766
02:48:48.479 --> 02:48:54.879
about leaving the kennels with your new story in light

2767
02:48:54.920 --> 02:48:58.639
of the evidence has been presented in this trial, your

2768
02:48:58.719 --> 02:49:02.159
words were, I got out of there. Correct.

2769
02:49:04.159 --> 02:49:06.959
I believe that's what I said, Yes, sir, And.

2770
02:49:07.040 --> 02:49:15.639
You also said during your testimony on cross examination that

2771
02:49:15.760 --> 02:49:18.159
you hurt the ones you love the most, didn't you.

2772
02:49:19.200 --> 02:49:19.879
I did say that.

2773
02:49:20.280 --> 02:49:26.319
Than in saying that, mister Waters, I just want to

2774
02:49:26.360 --> 02:49:31.120
explain that answer, and he just asked me a question

2775
02:49:31.239 --> 02:49:34.120
about what I said, and I was going to explain

2776
02:49:35.120 --> 02:49:39.559
why I said it, As I told you earlier, you're

2777
02:49:39.600 --> 02:49:43.520
implying to this jury and to me that that was

2778
02:49:44.520 --> 02:49:48.120
me talking about hurting Maggie and Paul, and that's not

2779
02:49:48.280 --> 02:49:52.399
what that was. What that was is me saying, I

2780
02:49:52.559 --> 02:49:59.120
know I hurt my brother, my partners, my clients, many

2781
02:49:59.200 --> 02:50:03.840
of whom I told told you I loved, all of

2782
02:50:03.920 --> 02:50:04.680
whom I cared for.

2783
02:50:05.879 --> 02:50:08.840
And that's what that was. When I'm talking about.

2784
02:50:10.479 --> 02:50:15.719
How my misdeeds, how I hurt the people worst were

2785
02:50:15.760 --> 02:50:17.000
the ones I love the most.

2786
02:50:17.719 --> 02:50:19.120
I just asked you what you said, crag.

2787
02:50:19.159 --> 02:50:22.680
Mister Murda, you did ask me what I said.

2788
02:50:22.719 --> 02:50:27.040
But in asking me that, you're putting an implication on

2789
02:50:27.159 --> 02:50:29.799
there that I am explaining.

2790
02:50:31.159 --> 02:50:32.360
I just asked you what you said.

2791
02:50:32.440 --> 02:50:34.399
Okay, yes, sir, thank you.

2792
02:50:34.680 --> 02:50:35.280
Nothing from me.

2793
02:50:37.120 --> 02:50:37.440
Wow.

2794
02:50:39.000 --> 02:50:44.120
In my opinion, Murda just got decimated by Creaking Waters

2795
02:50:44.200 --> 02:50:59.000
and I personally loved it. Hey, thank you so much

2796
02:50:59.120 --> 02:51:01.159
for hanging in there with me on this one. I

2797
02:51:01.319 --> 02:51:03.559
know it was a long episode, but I didn't want

2798
02:51:03.600 --> 02:51:06.319
to drag out this series any further than I have to,

2799
02:51:06.479 --> 02:51:08.639
and we still got a ways to go yet. My

2800
02:51:08.799 --> 02:51:12.040
goal is to complete this one in thirty episodes. We're

2801
02:51:12.079 --> 02:51:15.879
on twenty two now, so we're getting close. And until

2802
02:51:16.559 --> 02:51:22.319
next time, for exposed scandalous files of the Elite, I'm

2803
02:51:22.360 --> 02:51:23.600
your host, Jim Chapman.

2804
02:51:24.440 --> 02:51:25.040
Much love,