"Murdaugh" Episode Twenty Six | Sisterhood

0:11 Hey, everyone, and welcome back to Exposed Scandalous Files of the Elite. I'm your host, Jim Chapman, and we're back with another edition of the Murdall series. And this is an additional episode this week, and it comes down to a large amount of questions I have received recently as to what Maggie Murdall's family had to say about all this with Eleck Murdad. We really focused. On Elc Murdoch's family, of course, with those jailhouse phone calls that I play you, it's all about Elec Murdoch's family, but we haven't heard, or haven't told you a whole lot about the other side of that family, and that's Maggie Murdoch's family, who really love just a beautiful lady who seemed from everybody that knew her to be very loved and all of those sorts of things. So one of the testimonies that I did not play you during the trial was that of her sister Mary and Proctor.

1:17 It was an extremely emotional testimony, and so as I reflected on that, I feel like it would have been a disservice to leave that out because it's really very interesting, really shines a light on who Maggie Murdoch was. So I'm going to play that for you today and it's going to answer a lot of the questions as to how Maggie Murdoch's side of the family felt about all this as it relates to those murders at Mozelle. So here's what that testimony sounded like when Mary and Proctor, her sister, took the stand. I'm maryan Proctor Procto.

1:58 R Afternoon is Crocker, go ahead and tell the jury do you have any relationship to Maggie and Paul. I am Maggie's sister, and Paul was my nephew. People that Mike just a little bit closer or slide to chair up just a little bit so you don't have to lean forward, okay, And is that a fresh follow of warm Maryland? It is? Yes, go ahead, And if you would tell us a little bit about yourself, just where you grew up and just a little bit about yourself so they. Get to know you just a little bit, Okay. I grew up in Wilmington, North Carolina, Maggie and I did.

2:39 She was my only sibling with two parents, and we both went to college. Both married both lived in South Carolina. We've been here ever since. I'm married. I have to daughters, and we lived in the Charleston area. Did where did Maggie go to college South Carolina? Did she go somewhere else and then transfer to South Carolina? She did? How far apart are you and Maggie five years? And? Uh?

3:20 Your parents? What are their names? Terry and Kennedy? And do y'all have any other siblings or was it just you and Maggie and growing up being seven years apart? As as younger folks were, was that a bit of an age difference as y'all grow up? It was for children, that's a lot. So you know, I was in college, she was in high school. So we weren't super close when we were children, but later on, as our lives became more similar, we became very close. And how long ago do you think that relationship grew very close?

4:03 When the children were little, we did a lot together. It was easy. As they got older, with you know, their commitment sports and things like that, it was mostly holidays, Christmas, Thanksgiving, and then when we both became empty nesters, we were having a really good time. I'll talk almost every day, almost every day. Tell the jury a little bit about Maggie. How would you describe her as somebody, just so they can get an idea of who she was. Maggie was sweet. She was kind of a free spirit. She was always up for anything that was going on.

4:46 She loved her family. She loved her boys. Buster and Paul were her world. She loved my parents. We you know, joked how we would grow all together and take care of them. And she was just a really, really good person. Was Maggie a tomboy at all? Or was she more of a girl's girl. No, she was definitely a girl's girl. But she made the best of having two boys. She was right in there fishing, hunting. She didn't grow up doing that. We used to laugh that she'd get in the deer stand with her Southern Living magazine and the boys would tell her she was making too much noise turning the pages.

5:34 And then, you know, fishing. She loved going out on the boat, she loved being at the beach, she loved going to the islands. I don't know that she really fished that much, but she just wanted to do what they were doing. She wanted to spend time with them. What about the Gang Cocks. She was a big game Cock fan. Are you a Gamecock fan? I have a big Clemson fan. I'll still imagine walk. We got along great, we did, and we were together a lot on those Clinton Carolina days and we would have a big time. Being kind of a girl's girl. Did she like spending time with you and your daughters and getting a chance to do those sorts of things?

6:20 She loved it. She and my girls loved their aunt Maggie. She always, you know, said that she was their favorite aunt. And she just, you know, loved catching up on all the latest makeup and you know, hair trends and shoes, and she just loved doing girls stuff with us. Did I did Maggie work over the years or was she focused on on taking care of the boys and raising them. She was mostly a stay at home mom. She had a little shop in Hampton for a while. She and miss Lebby didn't together, so that was fine. She was really involved with the boys' schools, you know, all their sporting events. I don't think she probably ever missed one, but she was mostly a stay at home on.

7:22 What about Paul? Did you get to know him? Obviously? Is your nephew. Yes, tell the jury just a little bit about Paul and what he was like. Paul was a sweet, sweet boy, misrepresented in the media. He had such a kind side to him. He was always wanting to help, you know, Aunt Mary, and kind of bring does Uncle Bart need some wood? He brings us a load of wood. He he was a console and I loved him a lot.

8:04 Was uh, Maggie very involved in the family finances to your knowledge, not at all. Explaining to the jury a little bit. If you would. She they had a comfortable life. Maggie was happy. She It wasn't a lavish life, but it was a comfortable life. And I mean money just it. It was never an issue for her that she knew about. That she knew about. I think you said you don't think Maggie ever bounced check book as finances wasn't.

8:48 She didn't. So I was the sister who balanced it to the penny and went crazy if I made a mistake in my checkbook. Maggie's was in the floor of her car with all of her bills thrown all over it, and she didn't. Organization was not her best skill. Mister Randolph, Paul's grandfather did you know him, I did, and then his his spouse was who Miss Libby towards the end of Maggie Paul's life, can tell the Jerry just a little bit about Miss Libby's health. Miss Libby had Alzheimer's and it wasn't too bad at first, but she she's been declining for years and it's real bad now. She I think she stays in bed all day.

9:43 She doesn't recognize her family, and she has to be helped to do everything. She can't feed herself, or go to the bathroom or do anything well. Back in June of twenty twenty one, was their conditions similar in that regard? Yes, Back in June of twenty twenty one, was mister Randolph suffering any health issues. Mister Randolph was really sick. He had had lots of different things wrong with him, and I think that his days were coming close to an end.

10:28 In the days leading up to Paul or Maggie's death, had the family received some not encouraging news about mister Randolph's. Correct correct, I think that they felt like everything had been done for him that could be done, and I'm not sure mister Randolph wanted anything else done to him. Either it had been along the road for him. Backing up a little bit, the family, I like in Maggie's family properties. Did they have a house in Hampton at one time? They did? They built that house?

11:10 And did they have a beach house? They did? And where was that? And when did they get the beach house? Roughly? Do you recall, Oh, gosh. I really don't know, they've had it for a long time fifteen I really, I really don't know. I'm sorry. And what about Mozille? They had that property as well. Yes, Mozille was their most recent property. And it was kind of a hunting plantation type place, great setup for hunting everything and lots of beds for elk to have men come out and have hunts, and not Maggie's favorite place to be, but the boys loved it.

12:02 And in the summertime, where did Maggie typically prefer to be at a stow? Well, he loved the beach. Yes. Do you are you familiar with. What people refer to as the boat crash? I am, And to your general recollection, that happened around February of twenty nineteen, correct after the boat crash. Did the family, and particularly Maggie feel like what she felt is some sort of backlash in the community or some sort of negative reaction that bothered her. She did. That was a devastating blow for their family. It was It was a horrible accident, but it was an accident, and Maggie felt like the community communed, the Hampton community had turned against her, and Paul was being mistreated. People would say mean things to him, call him names social media, you know, inappropriate things were said to him. Inappropriate things were said to him when he went back to school, and it it was very hard on the family. It was very stressful. Is that.

13:24 Also part of the reason that Maggie preferred staying in Edisto? I think so. Yes. During this time period, did Maggie start looking for a house somewhere else? She did, She would well, they sold their Hampton house and she was looking in the Hilton Head Bluffton area for something. She had been looking in that area for a while.

14:05 Okay, did she find anything she liked? She did. She found one house that she just loved and she called me and my parents to come down and take a look at it. And I believe Elk was there too, and she really thought that they might make an offer on that house, but in the end they did not. I think Elick advised her that the timing was just not right with the boot case going on, their case. Going on, so we moved closer to June seventh or twenty twenty one. I believe you testified that the family had received some bad prognosis on mister Randolph.

14:59 Was that correct? Yes. Maggie called me that day and said she was at Edistow. She had some men working on the house and mister Randolph was not doing well at all, and Elc really wanted her to come home that night. She hadn't planned on it, but that he needed her to come home, and Paul was going to be there too. And I said, well, Maggie, I said, you know, Elec and his dad are super close, and that's probably what you should do. Go be with him if he needs you.

15:40 She said that Alec wanted her to come home that night. Yes, what was your understanding, Maggie's in CenTra what they were going to do that night. I was under the impression they were going over to Almita to visit. His parents, and that's why Alec wanted Maggie to come home. Correct, And that was from your kind conversation with her. Yes, she called you to let you know that that's what Alec had called her about. Yes, you said she was having some work done at Ata stove on June seventh. Yes, just maintenance work, getting it ready for the summer.

16:29 You encouraged her to go to Moses. I did. Is that the last time you talked to her? Yes, all right? You remember about what time of day that was? I think it was around four o'clock in the afternoon. I think she was Maggie loved to call me when she was driving. She was always driving from you know, Zelta at a strad Charleston, and I think it was around four that afternoon.

17:23 What was the rest of your daylight? Just a normal thing, just a normal day. Good about that evening? Actually we were not in bed. We were watching a movie. It was just sparked me at home that night. Probably tell me how you found. Out, John, I didn't even realize this was going on. We were watching a movie and Bart had gone up, gotten up to I got go into the kitchen and he had a text from John Marmon saying that there had no I'm sorry It text from Randy saying that there had been a tragedy and could Bart please call him on his cell phone. He had called on Eleck's cell phone, but wanted him to call wanted Bart to call him back on his cell phone.

18:19 So what happened? So Bart went outside and called him So I still didn't know anything was going on, and told him that Maggie and Paul openshop finger. Did I'm sure reaction. I just believe it. I didn't think it was true. I said, there has to be a mistake. I said, there's got to be some explanation. It just it just can't be them. What'd y'all do? After that, we gathered up our things and we went to tell my parents, and they lived in Somerville. My mom had just had knee replacement surgery. So when we got to Somerville, I called and I said, Mom, we're on the way and we've got we've got some bad news to share, but I want I want to be with you. And so she was sitting in her recliner chair with her leg all bundled up. And so we got there and both of my parents were there, and I think my mom went into shop. She just couldn't be still and she just kept making these noises and

19:54 it was just the worst. Did you go to Mozilla at any point? We pretty much stayed with my parents all night. We went back home, showered, and then we all went to Mozelle the next morning. Over the next few days, were all staying back in Somerville and going to Mozelle? Or what were you and and your parents doing in bark. So we had a family coming in from Kentucky and some of them were staying with me, some of them were staying with my parents. But we we were in Mozelle every day. We were playing in the funeral doing it, but just we were in Moseelle after every day after that until the funeral.

20:43 Did that shock of finding out last for a while? I'm sorry, did that shock of finding out last for a while? It's still hard to face. When you got to Moselle, did you see Alick? I did. Y'all hug? We did. Cry. We did. Over the course of the next couple of days, or in the aftermath as the shock was wearing off just a little bit. Did you have any conversation with Alec about what had happened?

21:36 I didn't talk to elk a lot. Elick was just really busy, and the whole town was coming to see him, and he was very, very very torn up. I did at one point ask him if Maggie suffered, and he assured me that she did not. Now I don't know that I think that's true. And I asked if Paul had suffered, and he said no. And then later I I asked him, I said, Elic, do you have any idea who's done this? I said, we have got to find out who who could do this? And he said that he did not know who it was, but he felt like whoever did it had thought about it for a really long time.

22:33 Whoever done it had thought about it for a really long time. Does that strike you as odd? I just didn't know what that meant. We ever, privy, we're having any discussion with. Anything. Alex said about whether or not he went to the kennels that night. I personally did not talk to him about that, but he told my mom that he had dinner with Maggie and Paul and then he took a nap, which she did. That was kind of a routine. He would lay down on the sofa to night after work and take a nap.

23:18 He said he never went to the kennel correct after your conversation with Maggie, your last conversation with her, did it strike you his eye that she didn't go to the kennel's or go Jaunia without it? Yes? And why is that? Because that's the whole reason she went home that night. Did you think from your conversation with Maggie that she was playing him to see mister Randolph too?

24:02 I thought so. I didn't realize that mister Randolph wasn't there at the time. That was a surprise to you. In the days and weeks following Maggie and Paul's murder, did that like ever say anything about the boat case. Uh. We would talk about the boatcase, and he was very intent on clearing Paul's name.

24:49 What did he say? He said that this number one Stember one goal was clearing Paul's name. And I thought that was so strange because my number one goal was to find out who killed my sister and Paul. But that wasn't alex concern main concern. I know, he, I know he, I know he must wanted that too, but it's just I don't know how he could have thought about anything else. But he talked about the boat case. Did he ever act scared or afraid that the real, the real killers were out there somewhere or anything like that, or was he concerned with the boat case.

25:46 We were afraid. We didn't know what was going on. My family was scared. I was scared for elcam Buster. I felt like they needed protection. I think everybody was afraid, and Felic didn't seem to be afraid. Did he also talk about getting busted back into law school?

26:31 Yes? After the murders. Maggie loved those dogs, didn't she She like going down there and playing with them. Would she tend to walk down there or would she take another way. To get down If she was dining, she'd walk. Sometimes she'd ride her bus, and she take her car. She'd go, you know, just whatever she thought liked, take her car, pick one of the golf cart things.

27:14 She wasn't to hunt her though. It was. What you think about us? Those uh arch style guns that the boys said, uh. She seemed to be fine with those. I remember when she wanted to give them those for Christmas. And I just just growing up with girls and not in the honey world. I said, Maggie, why would you give those boys those guns, and she said they'd love to shoot hogs, and which I understood that the hogs were tearing up their property, but it just scared me that they would that the boys would have such a dangerous weapon. But I know nothing about guns.

27:56 So oh, one second problem, like, if testify, please answer any questions the defense may have. Mister Griffin, Hey, I'm sorry, this is hard for me to.

29:23 Maggie was a very special person, wasn't she? She was? And she and Alec had a very special relationship, didn't they did? And they had a very special family, did they not? They did? And they loved to do things together as a family, didn't they? They did? And they and it just wasn't. Alec and Maggie and Paul and Buster. But your parents were part of their family, right, Yes? And I doubt you've heard all the testimony here in court, but a lot of Paul's friends referred to your dad as Papa Tea.

30:09 Is that what people refer to him as? Yes? And your mother at Grandma? Yes? And it sort of seemed like. Paul and Buster's friends were part of your parents extended family. Is that right? Yes? And and. You and your husband and Barn and. Your children, y'all would all vacation together with not necessarily with Buster and Paul's friends, but with Maggie and Alec and Paul and Buster and and y'all did things as a family a lot we did. And Alec was really close to your parents, wasn't he? Yes, And he considered your dad as one of his best friends.

31:03 I believe he was very kind to my dad. And and y'all, y'all with vacation. I think you and your husband have a house and the keys, you would vacation there, right, correct? And and you would do a lot together. You play something off Lake Kiwi. Correct? And I mean you said Maggie was a you know, a girl, but she took to the boys and and learned to be a mother of two rambunctious sons.

31:46 Right she did, and. And and and you said earlier that about sporting events, that Maggie never never missed. Any of. Paul and Buster's sporting events. Is that right? And Alex was there right by Maggie at every sporting event. Wasn't coaching coaching most of the time? Right?

32:49 The the weeks leading up to the horrific day of Janus, Yeah, you had a family. Get together up at Kiwi. We did, and you had daughter? Was you're having a baby shower for your daughter, right right, You're about to be a grandmother for the first time. Yes, yeah. And and where was it? When was it? Where my daughter lives in Greenville, Okay? And the. And and it was the weekend I think of May twenty first.

33:32 I think it was the weekend before Memorial Day? Weekend, right, And I'm gonna show you a photo and see if you recognize this photo and it's defendant's exhibit. Yes, do you recognize that I took that picture? You took that picture? I did you know? Honor? We would introduce depend it's one twenty two in evidence. In this time, no objection, you're off? Can you pull on one twenty two? Though?

34:13 You know, I'm not sure Marion, if Jerry has actually seen a picture of Maggie in this troll. She's obviously the only female here this photo. And you'll favor each other greatly, right, we do. And this was a weekend just a couple of me, you said, the weekend before Memorial Day, right, And and desk Buster on the left, Yes, and that's Paul, right, and then Maggie Alex right, correct, Okay, think you can take that down.

35:10 Did did you see Maggie again after being with her up above Greenville? I did not, So that was the last time you were together with her. They were at Edistove for Memorial Day, and then the next weekend was my Birthday and we were back in the upstate, and then I got the call on Monday. Can you understand. The weekend atter Memorial Day, Alec, Maggie went to Columbia for a the Super Reagonal baseball game with Buster and his girlfriend Brooklyn.

35:58 Right, you were aware of that, I am. And and you mentioned that. Maggie was a big Carolina fan and Alex was a big Carolina fan. Right. They both graduated from there, and they went to a lot of the Carolina sporting events as a couple. Yes, right, And. And leading up to June seventh. Let well, let me back up. And I know we've talked about this, and I don't want this to come out the wrong way, but.

36:41 Maggie did a lot for alex mom and dad. But didn't it make her somewhat sad to go over and visit his mother because. Of her condition? Absolutely, And it was really not high on her list of things that she wanted to do. Maggie went there a lot. She just didn't feel like she needed to go every day like Alec. Like to go. And and Alec would go every day and sometimes. More than once a day, as much as he could, he did, and. He but.

37:22 Maggie cared for mister Randolph. And I know if she loved him I'm talking about she would, you know, prepare food for him and tried to spoil him, wouldn't. She was the no salt diet and they were all struggling to cook food that he would eat with no salt. And she experimented with different things, hopefully that he would enjoy. Right. The whole family was taking turns and trying to provide meals. And you know now that on the seventh, I think in the afternoon, and we'll established this later, but you know, around four four thirty, uh.

38:03 Mr Randolph got admitted back to the hospital in Savannah. I know that now, right. And and you said earlier that that you expected from your conversation with Maggie that she was gonna go over to I'll Meeta and see Alex's parents on the evening of of the seventh. But and and you found it odd afterwards when you found out she did it. Correct, But knowing that Alex's dad was not there and he was back in the hospital, it doesn't really seem that. Odd anymore, does it? Probably not?

39:23 You? Uh? You? You and Barrett received the awful phone call from the ninth of the seventh about Maggie and Paul's death. Right, we did. And it was from John. Marvin Randy Right, Sorry, I spoke earlier. And and one of the requests was that you and Bart go and tell your parents in person. Right. I don't know that they requested, but I knew we had to do that in person.

40:04 So you did that in person, Yes, And then the next day you came to Mozille with with with your parents. Correct. And and Alex was he grieving greatly, terribly. People have were described him as being destroyed. Is that? Would you agree with that assessment? Yes? And and Buster was there, yes, okay, And I jumped ahead, and but but leading up, Maggie.

40:50 Enjoyed being with being at a stow over Mozille in the summertime. Correct. I think most people would get right. Enjoy did a lot more than being at Mozille. But Ali had to stay at Moseille, or did stay at Moseille because his work was right there in Hampton, and Alec was constantly wanting Maggie to come back and stay with him at Moseille. Perhaps I'm not I'm not sure. I don't think he really liked being by himself.

41:31 When he asked Maggie to come back on the seventh. I mean, you didn't think that that was really an unusual request, because he he wanted to be with Maggie, right, He didn't like to be by himself. I did not think it was unusual, and that's why I encouraged her to do so. And and and you from your conversation with Maggie, you knew that Paul was going to be there, correct, right. And and do you know what whether do you know what why Paul was gonna be there? Had you heard I had?

42:13 I didn't know at the time. I know now, m M. But anyway, he so, and you encouraged Maggie to to go be with Alec because you know, his dad was in bad shape right right now after. After Maggie and Paul were murdered, you know, mister Randolph died two days later, I believe her three days so it was a very difficult time for everyone, wasn't it.

42:57 And it's and they were. Two funerals, one on a Saturday for Maggie and Paul and one on Sunday from Serandolph Frank. And then after a day or so, did did Alec and Buster come to Somerville and stay with your parents? Yes? And did they stay with your parents a lot after the murders? Yes, especially Elick, Yeah, Elick. And you to your knowledge that eli ever spent another night at Moselle after the murdy he did not. She stayed, uh, with your parents. She stayed.

43:40 He visited with you and your husband and family down at Key West at some time end of July. Is that right? He did? And then he and Buster came up to Greenville up at one point. Uh, they did. And and then and he was staying with uh, you know, his brother Randy at times. He was all over the place, he was. Now you mentioned that.

44:20 After after the murders, that that Alex said that he was that he was very intent on clearing is Paul's name from the boating accent? Right? And and you knew that that Maggie felt very strongly that Paul was not driving the boat when the beautiful, tragic, beautiful Mallory Beach came to her tragic death, right, correct? I mean Maggie was adamant she was on a mission to clear Paul's name, was she not? Sort of? Sort of? And she he was?

45:03 And you're not critical of Alex for warning to clear Paul's name after he was murdered, you allre you. I am not critical about that at all. I think that was his way of honoring Paul after he was gone. I just. Thought his priority should have been focusing on finding out who killed Maggie and Paul. And how do you know that wasn't a priority. We never talked about it. We never talked about finding the person who could have done it. It was just odd and we were sort of living in fear because we thought this horrible person was out there and we didn't.

46:05 We were mostly afraid for Elk and Buster, but we didn't know the motives behind the killings. We thought it probably had something to do with boat case, right, And we thought that up until September, right, and then things started to change a little bit. Sure, were you aware that Alec was started carrying a gun after the mark. You didn't they always carried a gun. He always carried again on his person. Did he started carrying again? Were you aware of that?

46:45 I knew he usually had one in his. Car, right, I I wanna ask you just some sort of one topic kind of questions. Uh, Bubba was Maggie's an Alex dog. Is that Bubba could be a little hard headed?

47:34 We've heard, uh, but I'm sorry, Yes, Baba, I think Bubba could be a handful. But it pretty clear that Alex could control Bubba pretty well. Yes, And. And Maggie enjoyed going down to the kennels as far as you know, to play with the dog. She did, right, And and she was a dog lover, she was. And of your dog lover, I am. And you'll have. Dogs. What you know that they didn't allow dogs in the house at Moiselle, correct, because.

48:15 Of I don't I don't know what allergies? Yeah, allergies, right, But she had They had a big porch and there were dog beds all outside on the porch, and you know, huge buckets of water. And when I was there, the dogs were always up there at the house. Did you know there was an electric fence around. I did not know that there was an electric fence. But and did did Maggie and I like let dogs in the house down. Out of stuff? I don't think so. They stayed mostly underneath the house. She had a big pen.

48:56 Down there, and they had a dog run type thing else. Yes. And did you ever go to ali stove and visit with Yes, with Maggie and Alan and the family. Yes, and and uh with Paul's friends and Buster's friends welcome. At always at and at Moseille. Yes, and Maggie loved having the boys friends around, right. And I think you mentioned this, but Mozille was Moseille Paul's passion. Yes, he loved that place. Yes, and Ali enjoyed being there with Paul.

49:51 Is that right? He did. One second yard, just just very briefly. I in your own words, you tell a Jerry what you believe alex relationship was with Paul.

50:38 I think they had a a very good relationship. They they loved all the same things. They loved to hunt, they loved to fish, they loved to work the land. I think the plan was for Paul to take over Mozille one day, and they had a great father son relationship. And in your own words, can you tell the jury. What do you believe alex relationship with Maggie was? It was good. It wasn't perfect, but Maggie was happy and I think i'm she was happy.

51:26 Thank you. That's all the questions I have. Direct please court your honor. And Maggie called you on the afternoon of June seventh of twenty twenty one. She reported to you that her whole purpose for going home was to go with Alec to visit Almeeto. Is that correct? What did Maggie tell you her whole purpose was in going home and Alec wanting her to come home on June seventh, twenty twenty one, She. Was going home to be with I can visit his parents at Almeta. It was it was such a point of contention that you actually encouraged her to go.

52:07 I did. You're asked some questions about you testified about Alec not being focused on trying to figure out who killed Maggie and Paul. And then something happened in September? Is that right? Correct? And that changed for you as you started to look at the motive. Is that correct? That's what you just testified? Correct? Correct? And in scepter September he got fired from the law firm. Right correct, and it started to come out about years and years of theft and misappropriation with clients. Is that correct?

52:47 Objection leading sextions thing? What came out in September that changed your calculus and objection exceeding the scope across. Sections of rule. We were on our way to a football game and we received a phone call that from a friend of ours saying, how sorry. They this issue that has not been ruled for yours day. Ladies and gentlemen, have you go to the jury room. Please do not discuss the case nature of the objection.

53:33 She was about to testify that she had heard about the roadside shooting. The state is not going into the roadside shooting yet Your Honor is not ruled on whether that's admissible or not. We object to under four oh three. Instead of being admissible, and. The subsequently that is the objection evidence of the roadside shooting. It just opens up a whole new avenue of issues. Secondly, what she knows thus far as would be hearsaying, which is a technical objection. But the certainly we objected any evidence of the roadside shooting. Of course, Your Honor at this point of course, this is responsive to a question that was raised on cross examination by mister Griffin, in which she testified something happened in September. So for that reason you just begin with, I believe that door has opened as to her to explain what it was the change of that period in time, which was the nature of my question to her. Additionally, I think if we look beyond that, there is a connection, if we want to talk and have in camera hearing about her answer in about four three and four oh four, there is a logical connection between what happened in the roadside shooting and what happened on June seventh, twenty twenty one.

54:55 And that connection is, of course that the evidence will show that as the temperature increases, as there's a confrontation for Alec Murdoch, then things like this happened, and that's what happened on September. But as it relates to this specific witness, this was an answer that came up during the defense cross and it's fair to explore with this witness, now what changed in September, which she's already testified to from a defense question, and what was the question. That prompted the response that you now indicate opened the door opens the door. This, so in that that particular question, and in her response, he asked her and he had been of course engaging in great detail about the family relationship and and that sort of thing, and put up a picture and all the rest of it, and asked her about, you know, her assessment at that particular time, and she went in and started to explain that. And he was specifically asking about Alec being con learn about clearing Paul's name in the boat case. And then she explained further that and he asked her if that was any big deal, and then she went on to explain her answer, and that's when she talked about how everything changed in September. And that was what I was exploring, what happened in September, which has been testimony before this jury. And I think now fair game for them to understand what happened in September.

56:25 Sir, Yeah, that was not the question of the question. That was my question to mister Waters, and he's explained a whole lot. I don't know if he if he responded to my question, maybe you will. What was the question that you posed that generated the response about her concerns and her concerns changing. That the question that I asked related to her. I said, you testified previously that you didn't believe Alex was concerned about finding out who did this. Or more concerned about clearing Paul's name. And then she says, well, it seemed to odd he wasn't concerned about finding out who did this? And I said, why do you think he was not concerned?

57:08 And then she goes into testifying, well, initially we thought it was the boating accident, and then after September we thought perhaps it's something completely different. And I mean I was exploring her testimony on direct and she offered up the issue of the roadside shooting. So I didn't ask anything about the roadside shooting here, and I was asking her. Why she thought Alec was not trying to you know, what was the basis of her belief that Alec wasn't trying to find out who did this? All right, it's the waters And I apologize if I wasn't more clear. I don't remember the specific question, but what I.

57:49 Do court reporters off, we'll have Miss Harris if you'll go back a bit to mister Griffin and his questioning of Miss Proctor and solely consumed about the Uh. I don't know how far that was Maggie being consumed about the boating accident, and m if it's not too far back from there on up to where where you are now, and if you need a break, we can take one to locate it.

59:00 By the question. I'm looking for, you're not critical about Alex wanting to clear Paul's name. You need to be loud enough for me to hear you at least here. Sorry, Okay, okay, okay. You're not critical about Alex wanting to clear Paul's name after he was murdered, are you. I am not critical about that at all. I think that was his way of honoring Paul after he was gone.

59:54 I just thought. His priority should have been focusing on finding out who killed Maggie and Paul. And how do you know that wasn't a priority. We never talked about it. We never talked about. Finding the person who. Could have done it. It was just odd and we were sort of living in fear because we thought this horrible person was out. There and we didn't. We were mostly afraid for Alex and Buster. We didn't know the motive behind the killings.

1:00:43 We thought it was probably had something to do with the boat case, right, And we thought that up until September, all right, and then things started to change a little bit. Are you aware that Alex started carrying a gun? All right? Mister Waters, your honor again if these were in direct responses to his question as he was exploring her statement about his concern on the boat case, and in fact, the reference to September was actually in response to a follow up question that the defense continued down that line of questioning. That answer has now come out, and I think that the witness again is entitled in this fair game at this.

1:01:34 Point before what changed in September? What you meant by that, yes, sir, what she meant by that? And what changed in September? Do you talk to them? So we received a phone call from a friend of ours who said, uh, he was so sorry to hear about my brother in law. And the call came in to my husband, Bart, and Bart said, what are you talking about. We don't know anything, and he said, well, your brother in law's been shot. And we literally stopped the car, pulled over on the side of the road, and it was just the worst feeling in the world because I thought whoever had killed Maggie and Paul had now shot Elick, and I was horrified that Buster was next. So we made a phone call to Buster, and Buster said his dad had been shot, but that he was okay, and he was on his way or in the hospital at that time, I can't remember.

1:02:47 And then at some point, and I'm not sure, I think I was in shock at some point we spoke with Jim Griffin that day and he told us that, yes, Eli had been shot, that he had been fired from the law firm because he had been caught stealing money. All right, thank you, sir. Again, that's that's her explanation. Uh, And I believe that's fair game in this particular instance, to this particular witnesses testimony that had come out on cross examination, and I probably would have h one follow up. Additionally, I should mention as well, I think there's two other matters that probably we should explore while the jury's out in fearness, uh, to the other side and in court that I wanted to inquire that we're in reference to cross examination. Are those are different issues?

1:03:48 I was going going in to tell me what they are? So sure, Uh, there were obviously extensive cross examination about the family relationship. And there's been extensive evidence offered by the defense on the cross about the family relationship. And there were two questions. I was going to ask her about fidelity concerns and also the Maggie and the family wrestling with opioid abuse and pill usage by the defendant has been issues that Maggie had wrestled with and had expressed to her.

1:04:38 All right, mister Griffin, Well that as to the I don't know if you want me to address the roadside shooting, but that's certainly I mean that opens up Pandora's box of four oh four B. They want to. Introduce the roadside shooting his motive. How can you have motive after the fact, And so it's not a it should not be amissible one to four h three. But but just what she says, it is not that harmful. But they're not going to stop there. You're honor and and I did not open the door. I said, you're proving her about Alex's fear. Doesn't Alex, were you aware that he started carrying a gun? Well, he always carries gun in his car, but then he started carrying in his pockets. So you're having her cross examining her to suggest that Alex was living in fear, as evidenced by the fact that he uh continued or started carrying a gun, not in his vehicle but on his person, and she in her response as well, I never didn't appear to me that he was living in fear.

1:05:55 I didn't know anything about that, and responding to you until in September when this occurred. For whatever reason, now with the truth of what occurred, she's not testifying as an investigator. She said she heard he'd been shot and that gave her changed her reason for concern in some way, whatever that might be. I don't know. Did you still have a reason for concern? Are you about Alice's safety or or did it was it changed? Was it altered.

1:06:41 That day? And for some time after that, we were very concerned for the family. We felt like someone was after them. But then we started finding out about other things that have been going on in Elex's life. And and this is in part based on your conversation with mister Griffon. This is everything that has come out since then. Did you did you say that you had a conversation with mister.

1:07:23 Griffin that day that we found out that Elick had been shot. We did have a conversation with mister Griffin and Jesus. Everyone told you that he'd been fired and that he'd been caught stealing money. Correct, well absolve Herefore, what. Kind of quality does that put you in? Uh, you're going to be a witness as well? Well? It is. That's a Hearshae statement, without a doubt, It's classic her shiate. This is the basis for her fear and not having fear, which is something you or fear or believing that Alex was in fear, that's something that you're approbing. Aside from that issue, how about the family relationship issue fidelity? Hope youoid abuse concerns your.

1:08:17 Honor with regard to fidelity. We can hear what she says about it, but the evidence, as I understand it is ten or fifteen years ago. I don't know how long ago, but it was more than ten years ago. There was some issue about someone that Alegant known in college reaching out to him. Maggie got angry about that they had. Got ten fifteen years ago or recently. Yes, yes, and that Maggie got angry about it. Contacted the woman's husband who says. It's not true. I know who she's seeing because I have a private eye owner that led to a divorces. A fifteen year old conversation.

1:08:58 Yes, and then then the opioid stuff, your honor is. I'm not sure what information she's going to share about that. Frankly, well, you had one earlier witness read a letter about him being in rehab that. They introduced, yes, sir, that you published. I's sorry in evidence you ever decond. Mister Waters those issues. First of all, with the first. Step down for a break, don't discuss your case. You're fine, okay, good, all right.

1:09:43 With the issue of the first matter, I think it's certainly a fair question to say, I did Maggie ever expressed to you any concerns Were there ever any concerns and issues with the defendant's fidelity? I think that's clear in response to the extensive it's been offered by the defense. You said, has she ever such as fifteen years ago? Well, I think that my follow up question would be, was that something that remained in Maggie's mind over the years up until she would know that? I think that if I asked her that question, she could express an answer to that, yes, sir, What. Is the answer to that.

1:10:26 It was an affair that happened or Maggie thought it was an affair that happened many years ago. They were able to resolve the issues, but Maggie still brought it up. Recently when. A year ago she did not think anything was going on. She just it still bothered her. All right, Yeah, just. During when that event occurred, did she make Alec leave the household for a period of time?

1:11:06 She did? Frame when this happened, I mean. Fifteen years ago or how long ago was that? It was a very long time ago. I'm not sure, a very long time ago, I think. Again, I'm not trying to make it bigger than it is, but I think given the issues that have been squarely in front of the jury, the States entitled, at least in a limited fashion to offer this, uh some testimony in this regard that you know that there everything was not perfect, As the defense is repeatedly elicited and so on that particular issue. I only propose a limited question that you know, had Maggie ever had any concerns about fidelity and had those concerns continue to bother her? And that would be the extent of my proposed examination for her on that issue.

1:12:01 All right, anything else for two thousand and seven is our understanding two thousand and seven fifteen years ago? Well, yeah, two thousand and seven was fifteen. Years ago, and that's when it occurred. Well that's been established. Give me something new. Well, other than repeating fifteen years ago. Four three, it's not admissible under four h three. Unfair prejudice outweighs the probative value of this whether it still bothered her. I mean, she testified that they weren't without their problems like all married couples, but they had a good marriage. I mean, it's been addressed, and it's highly inflammatory.

1:12:48 That's why your questions have to not lead into things that might be inflammatory. We're going to be in recess for about fifteen minutes. The witness can testify as to her concern as to what occurred on September seventh that changed her concern about Alex living in fear. She cannot testify as to on a fidelity issue because that's too remote in time and we tend to confuse the jury.

1:13:30 She can testify that she discovered that he'd been fired and that and that he had a drug problem. Depending how that testimony goes, we would have Hear'Say objections that she's testifying as to what someone told me. She's not testifying as to the truth of it. She's responding to why her concerns were change changed based on uh in part of her conversations with you. No, no, I understand that agent from mister Murdoch. Well, I understand that my point I just stood to addresses the family wrestling wrestling with opioid and pill use by the defendant.

1:14:19 That that is hearsay if if that's how she knows. Problem, I mean, if you want to talk about specifically. I don't know to what degree she discovered his drug problem, opioid addiction or whatever it is, but it's already an evidence anyway. You know. I understand. I'm just advising the court that I will be making hearsay objections that that's. Anything else before the jury comes. Not from say this time. The objections overrue and may continue. May please court your on, Miss Proctor. When we left them break, I was asking you what happened in September that caused you to change your assessment. Can you describe that.

1:15:09 To the jury please? On September fourth, we were headed to a football game and my husband Bart received a phone call from a friend saying he was so sorry to hear about what had happened to my brother in law. And we had no idea what he was talking about, and he said, well, we've heard, you know. He told us he had been shot. So we pulled over on the side of the road. We were all in hysterics. We called Buster and Buster said, yes, that his dad had been shot, that he was being airlifted to the hospital, that they thought he was hoped he was going to be okay.

1:15:51 So we. Wanted more information, so we called Jim Griffin and he told us us that Alec had been shot in the head and that he had been fired from his law firm for stealing. What was your concern when you heard that he had been shot. Initially I thought he might be dead. I had just lost two of the family members, and I felt like they were being targeted. At that point, I felt like the family was being targeted. Subsequent to that, did your concern that the family was being targeted? Did that change as well?

1:16:37 Over the course of a few weeks, we were still on high alert, worried for buster. But at that point information started coming out about some things that Alick had done financially that we hadn't no idea about out. And that changed your assessment about what you heard about him being shot as well? Is that correct. Answer the shooting that was an event in itself the road side shooting.

1:17:37 You just stated that the shooting itself, the roadside shooting, was an invent itself. Did other information come to your attention to change your assessment about the roadside shooting at a later time, Yes, and changed that initial concern that Alec was somehow being targeted. Yes. Did Maggie have a nickname. For Paul. As Little? What is detective? Little Detective? And what did that mean? She felt like that he was always looking to make sure his dad was behaving. And what specifically was the concern pills prescription pain pills.

1:18:40 Have had Maggie expressed to you concern over time about the defendant's pill usage. Yes, how long had that been going on? I am not sure, but I think it had been going on for some time? And did that concern continue up until recent times as we moved to their bagging Paul's murder? Yes? And what did specifically little detective mean as it related to the pills.

1:19:21 If there were pills in the house that his dad was taking that he wasn't supposed to, Paul was determined that he would find them. And did that happen on occasions? I think so? Yet hold on for me once a night. What specifically changed your perception of the roadside shooting? Now, for your initial.

1:20:06 Concern, the. Story that was initially told about what happened came to. Not be true, the story told by who. Ellen. Yes, yes, thank you, anything further, thank you may step down. Just so sad, I just could not imagine. And for those of you that have siblings out there, I'm sure you could not either.

1:20:52 And there you have it. A little bit from Maggie Murdoch's family. And next week will pick up again where we left off with episode twenty five, and that is more regarding Clerk of Court Becky Hill and the repercussions of her jury tampering. So look for that. And until next time for exposed scandalous files of the Elite, I'm your host, Jim Chapman. Much love,