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March 28, 2025

"Murdaugh" Episode Twenty Six | Sisterhood

"Murdaugh" Episode Twenty Six | Sisterhood

In this episode, Jim brings you the emotional story of the side you have not yet heard from, Maggie Murdaugh’s side of the family.  Hear the personal testimony of Maggie’s sister Marion Proctor in today’s episode.

Timestamps
16:39 Marion Proctor's...

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Season 1

In this episode, Jim brings you the emotional story of the side you have not yet heard from, Maggie Murdaugh’s side of the family. Hear the personal testimony of Maggie’s sister Marion Proctor in today’s episode.

Timestamps
16:39 Marion Proctor's Emotional Testimony
26:00 Family Dynamics and Community Reactions
27:53 Maggie's Life and Interests 32:20 The Tragic Night
34:21 Memories and Last Visits
39:22 Aftermath of the Murders
45:24 The Investigation's Focus
50:23 Insights into Family Relationships
1:14:53 Concerns About Alec's Safety

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WEBVTT

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Hey, everyone, and welcome back to Exposed Scandalous Files of

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the Elite. I'm your host, Jim Chapman, and we're back

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with another edition of the Murdall series. And this is

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an additional episode this week, and it comes down to

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a large amount of questions I have received recently as

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to what Maggie Murdall's family had to say about all

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this with Eleck Murdad.

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We really focused.

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On Elc Murdoch's family, of course, with those jailhouse phone

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calls that I play you, it's all about Elec Murdoch's family,

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but we haven't heard, or haven't told you a whole

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lot about the other side of that family, and that's

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Maggie Murdoch's family, who really love just a beautiful lady

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who seemed from everybody that knew her to be very

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loved and all of those sorts of things. So one

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of the testimonies that I did not play you during

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the trial was that of her sister Mary and Proctor.

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It was an extremely emotional testimony, and so as I

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reflected on that, I feel like it would have been

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a disservice to leave that out because it's really very interesting,

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really shines a light on who Maggie Murdoch was. So

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I'm going to play that for you today and it's

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going to answer a lot of the questions as to

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how Maggie Murdoch's side of the family felt about all

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this as it relates to those murders at Mozelle. So

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here's what that testimony sounded like when Mary and Proctor,

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her sister, took the stand.

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I'm maryan Proctor Procto.

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R Afternoon is Crocker, go ahead and tell the jury

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do you have any relationship to Maggie and Paul.

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I am Maggie's sister, and Paul was my nephew.

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People that Mike just a little bit closer or slide

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to chair up just a little bit so you don't

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have to lean forward, okay, And is that a fresh

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follow of warm Maryland?

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It is?

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Yes, go ahead, And if you would tell us a

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little bit about yourself, just where you grew up and

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just a little bit about yourself so they.

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Get to know you just a little bit, Okay. I

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grew up in Wilmington, North Carolina, Maggie and I did.

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She was my only sibling with two parents, and we

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both went to college. Both married both lived in South Carolina.

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We've been here ever since. I'm married. I have to daughters,

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and we lived in the Charleston area.

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Did where did Maggie go to college South Carolina? Did

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she go somewhere else and then transfer to South Carolina?

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She did?

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How far apart are you and Maggie five years?

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And? Uh?

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Your parents?

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What are their names?

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Terry and Kennedy?

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And do y'all have any other siblings or was it

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just you and Maggie and growing up being seven years apart?

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As as younger folks were, was that a bit of

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an age difference as y'all grow up?

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It was for children, that's a lot. So you know,

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I was in college, she was in high school. So

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we weren't super close when we were children, but later on,

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as our lives became more similar, we became very close.

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And how long ago do you think that relationship grew

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very close?

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When the children were little, we did a lot together.

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It was easy. As they got older, with you know,

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their commitment sports and things like that, it was mostly holidays, Christmas, Thanksgiving,

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and then when we both became empty nesters, we were

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having a really good time.

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I'll talk almost every day, almost every day. Tell the

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jury a little bit about Maggie. How would you describe

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her as somebody, just so they can get an idea

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of who she was.

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Maggie was sweet. She was kind of a free spirit.

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She was always up for anything that was going on.

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She loved her family. She loved her boys. Buster and

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Paul were her world. She loved my parents. We you know,

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joked how we would grow all together and take care

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of them. And she was just a really, really good person.

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Was Maggie a tomboy at all? Or was she more

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of a girl's girl.

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No, she was definitely a girl's girl. But she made

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the best of having two boys. She was right in

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there fishing, hunting. She didn't grow up doing that. We

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used to laugh that she'd get in the deer stand

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with her Southern Living magazine and the boys would tell

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her she was making too much noise turning the pages.

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And then, you know, fishing. She loved going out on

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the boat, she loved being at the beach, she loved

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going to the islands. I don't know that she really

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fished that much, but she just wanted to do what

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they were doing. She wanted to spend time with them.

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What about the Gang Cocks.

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She was a big game Cock fan.

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Are you a Gamecock fan?

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I have a big Clemson fan.

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I'll still imagine walk.

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We got along great, we did, and we were together

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a lot on those Clinton Carolina days and we would

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have a big time.

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Being kind of a girl's girl. Did she like spending

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time with you and your daughters and getting a chance

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to do those sorts of things?

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She loved it. She and my girls loved their aunt Maggie.

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She always, you know, said that she was their favorite aunt.

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And she just, you know, loved catching up on all

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the latest makeup and you know, hair trends and shoes,

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and she just loved doing girls stuff with us.

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Did I did Maggie work over the years or was

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she focused on on taking care of the boys and

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raising them.

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She was mostly a stay at home mom. She had

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a little shop in Hampton for a while. She and

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miss Lebby didn't together, so that was fine. She was

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really involved with the boys' schools, you know, all their

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sporting events. I don't think she probably ever missed one,

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but she was mostly a stay at home on.

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What about Paul? Did you get to know him? Obviously?

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Is your nephew.

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Yes, tell the jury just a little bit about Paul

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and what he was like.

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Paul was a sweet, sweet boy, misrepresented in the media.

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He had such a kind side to him. He was

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always wanting to help, you know, Aunt Mary, and kind

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of bring does Uncle Bart need some wood? He brings

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us a load of wood. He he was a console

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and I loved him a lot.

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Was uh, Maggie very involved in the family finances to

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your knowledge, not at all. Explaining to the jury a

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little bit.

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If you would.

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She they had a comfortable life. Maggie was happy. She

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It wasn't a lavish life, but it was a comfortable life.

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And I mean money just it. It was never an

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issue for her that she knew about.

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That she knew about. I think you said you don't

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think Maggie ever bounced check book as finances wasn't.

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She didn't. So I was the sister who balanced it

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to the penny and went crazy if I made a

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mistake in my checkbook. Maggie's was in the floor of

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her car with all of her bills thrown all over it,

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and she didn't. Organization was not her best skill.

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Mister Randolph, Paul's grandfather did you know him, I did,

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and then his his spouse was who Miss Libby towards

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the end of Maggie Paul's life, can tell the Jerry

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just a little bit about Miss Libby's health.

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Miss Libby had Alzheimer's and it wasn't too bad at first,

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but she she's been declining for years and it's real

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bad now. She I think she stays in bed all day.

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She doesn't recognize her family, and she has to be

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helped to do everything. She can't feed herself, or go

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to the bathroom or do anything well.

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Back in June of twenty twenty one, was their conditions

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similar in that regard? Yes, Back in June of twenty

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twenty one, was mister Randolph suffering any health issues.

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Mister Randolph was really sick. He had had lots of

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different things wrong with him, and I think that his

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days were coming close to an end.

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In the days leading up to Paul or Maggie's death,

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had the family received some not encouraging news about mister Randolph's.

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Correct correct, I think that they felt like everything had

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been done for him that could be done, and I'm

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not sure mister Randolph wanted anything else done to him.

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Either it had been along the road for him.

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Backing up a little bit, the family, I like in

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Maggie's family properties. Did they have a house in Hampton

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at one time?

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They did? They built that house?

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And did they have a beach house?

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They did?

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And where was that?

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And when did they get the beach house?

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Roughly?

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Do you recall, Oh, gosh.

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I really don't know, they've had it for a long

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time fifteen I really, I really don't know. I'm sorry.

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And what about Mozille? They had that property as well.

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Yes, Mozille was their most recent property. And it was

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kind of a hunting plantation type place, great setup for

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hunting everything and lots of beds for elk to have

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men come out and have hunts, and not Maggie's favorite

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place to be, but the boys loved it.

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And in the summertime, where did Maggie typically prefer to

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be at a stow?

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Well, he loved the beach.

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Yes.

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Do you are you familiar with.

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What people refer to as the boat crash? I am,

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And to your general recollection, that happened around February of

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twenty nineteen, correct after the boat crash. Did the family,

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and particularly Maggie feel like what she felt is some

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sort of backlash in the community or some sort of

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negative reaction that bothered her.

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She did.

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That was a devastating blow for their family. It was

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It was a horrible accident, but it was an accident,

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and Maggie felt like the community communed, the Hampton community

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had turned against her, and Paul was being mistreated. People

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would say mean things to him, call him names social media,

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you know, inappropriate things were said to him. Inappropriate things

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were said to him when he went back to school,

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and it it was very hard on the family. It

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was very stressful. Is that.

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Also part of the reason that Maggie preferred staying in Edisto?

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I think so. Yes.

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During this time period, did Maggie start looking for a

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house somewhere else?

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She did, She would well, they sold their Hampton house

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and she was looking in the Hilton Head Bluffton area

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for something. She had been looking in that area for

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a while.

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Okay, did she find anything she liked?

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She did.

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She found one house that she just loved and she

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called me and my parents to come down and take

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a look at it. And I believe Elk was there too,

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and she really thought that they might make an offer

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on that house, but in the end they did not.

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I think Elick advised her that the timing was just

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not right with the boot case going on, their case.

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Going on, so we moved closer to June seventh or

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twenty twenty one. I believe you testified that the family

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had received some bad prognosis on mister Randolph.

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Was that correct?

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Yes. Maggie called me that day and said she was

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at Edistow. She had some men working on the house

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and mister Randolph was not doing well at all, and

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Elc really wanted her to come home that night. She

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hadn't planned on it, but that he needed her to

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come home, and Paul was going to be there too.

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And I said, well, Maggie, I said, you know, Elec

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and his dad are super close, and that's probably what

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you should do. Go be with him if he needs you.

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She said that Alec wanted her to come home that night. Yes,

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what was your understanding, Maggie's in CenTra what they were

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going to do that night.

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I was under the impression they were going over to

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Almita to visit.

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00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:57.960
His parents, and that's why Alec wanted Maggie to come home. Correct,

239
00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:01.320
And that was from your kind conversation with her. Yes,

240
00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:03.519
she called you to let you know that that's what

241
00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:15.840
Alec had called her about. Yes, you said she was

242
00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:18.360
having some work done at Ata stove on June seventh.

243
00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:22.039
Yes, just maintenance work, getting it ready for the summer.

244
00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:31.720
You encouraged her to go to Moses.

245
00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:33.360
I did.

246
00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:37.519
Is that the last time you talked to her?

247
00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:55.519
Yes, all right?

248
00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:01.519
You remember about what time of day that was?

249
00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:06.519
I think it was around four o'clock in the afternoon.

250
00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:09.599
I think she was Maggie loved to call me when

251
00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:13.519
she was driving. She was always driving from you know,

252
00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:18.960
Zelta at a strad Charleston, and I think it was

253
00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:20.240
around four that afternoon.

254
00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:24.839
What was the rest of your daylight?

255
00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:27.920
Just a normal thing, just a normal day.

256
00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:31.440
Good about that evening?

257
00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:38.079
Actually we were not in bed. We were watching a movie.

258
00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:39.839
It was just sparked me at home that night.

259
00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:44.319
Probably tell me how you found.

260
00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:48.359
Out, John, I didn't even realize this was going on.

261
00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:50.640
We were watching a movie and Bart had gone up,

262
00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:53.640
gotten up to I got go into the kitchen and

263
00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:58.720
he had a text from John Marmon saying that there

264
00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:03.880
had no I'm sorry It text from Randy saying that

265
00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:09.480
there had been a tragedy and could Bart please call

266
00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:12.839
him on his cell phone. He had called on Eleck's

267
00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:16.799
cell phone, but wanted him to call wanted Bart to

268
00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:18.200
call him back on his cell phone.

269
00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:20.279
So what happened?

270
00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:25.319
So Bart went outside and called him So I still

271
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:27.680
didn't know anything was going on, and told him that

272
00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:31.039
Maggie and Paul openshop finger.

273
00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:34.720
Did I'm sure reaction.

274
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:42.240
I just believe it. I didn't think it was true.

275
00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:46.400
I said, there has to be a mistake. I said,

276
00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:50.680
there's got to be some explanation. It just it just

277
00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:51.400
can't be them.

278
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:54.519
What'd y'all do?

279
00:18:54.599 --> 00:19:06.000
After that, we gathered up our things and we went

280
00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:14.880
to tell my parents, and they lived in Somerville. My

281
00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:18.960
mom had just had knee replacement surgery. So when we

282
00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:21.319
got to Somerville, I called and I said, Mom, we're

283
00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:24.480
on the way and we've got we've got some bad

284
00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:26.519
news to share, but I want I want to be

285
00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:31.119
with you. And so she was sitting in her recliner

286
00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:37.759
chair with her leg all bundled up. And so we

287
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:40.480
got there and both of my parents were there, and

288
00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:47.359
I think my mom went into shop. She just couldn't

289
00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:51.599
be still and she just kept making these noises and

290
00:19:54.519 --> 00:19:55.480
it was just the worst.

291
00:19:57.920 --> 00:19:59.359
Did you go to Mozilla at any point?

292
00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:02.920
We pretty much stayed with my parents all night. We

293
00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:05.720
went back home, showered, and then we all went to

294
00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:06.759
Mozelle the next morning.

295
00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:13.440
Over the next few days, were all staying back in

296
00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:16.240
Somerville and going to Mozelle? Or what were you and

297
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:18.039
and your parents doing in bark.

298
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:23.240
So we had a family coming in from Kentucky and

299
00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:26.599
some of them were staying with me, some of them

300
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:28.839
were staying with my parents. But we we were in

301
00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:36.279
Mozelle every day. We were playing in the funeral doing it,

302
00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:40.519
but just we were in Moseelle after every day after

303
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:41.680
that until the funeral.

304
00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:46.279
Did that shock of finding out last for a while?

305
00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:49.400
I'm sorry, did that shock of finding out last for

306
00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:49.759
a while?

307
00:20:50.920 --> 00:20:55.119
It's still hard to face.

308
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:03.240
When you got to Moselle, did you see Alick?

309
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:05.000
I did.

310
00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:11.359
Y'all hug?

311
00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:12.640
We did.

312
00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:14.720
Cry.

313
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:15.759
We did.

314
00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:25.079
Over the course of the next couple of days, or

315
00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:28.119
in the aftermath as the shock was wearing off just

316
00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:30.440
a little bit. Did you have any conversation with Alec

317
00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:31.319
about what had happened?

318
00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:39.880
I didn't talk to elk a lot. Elick was just

319
00:21:40.039 --> 00:21:43.160
really busy, and the whole town was coming to see him,

320
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:49.319
and he was very, very very torn up. I did

321
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:56.160
at one point ask him if Maggie suffered, and he

322
00:21:56.319 --> 00:22:02.960
assured me that she did not. Now I don't know

323
00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:08.400
that I think that's true. And I asked if Paul

324
00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:13.279
had suffered, and he said no. And then later I

325
00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:16.680
I asked him, I said, Elic, do you have any

326
00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:18.960
idea who's done this? I said, we have got to

327
00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:24.240
find out who who could do this? And he said

328
00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:28.799
that he did not know who it was, but he

329
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:31.160
felt like whoever did it had thought about it for

330
00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:32.279
a really long time.

331
00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:34.920
Whoever done it had thought about it for a really

332
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:37.559
long time. Does that strike you as odd?

333
00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:39.519
I just didn't know what that meant.

334
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:55.000
We ever, privy, we're having any discussion with.

335
00:22:56.759 --> 00:22:57.079
Anything.

336
00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:58.799
Alex said about whether or not he went to the

337
00:22:58.880 --> 00:22:59.680
kennels that night.

338
00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:04.000
I personally did not talk to him about that, but

339
00:23:04.119 --> 00:23:07.079
he told my mom that he had dinner with Maggie

340
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:10.359
and Paul and then he took a nap, which she did.

341
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:14.400
That was kind of a routine. He would lay down

342
00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:17.039
on the sofa to night after work and take a nap.

343
00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:32.319
He said he never went to the kennel correct after

344
00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:42.279
your conversation with Maggie, your last conversation with her, did

345
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:43.960
it strike you his eye that she didn't go to

346
00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:46.039
the kennel's or go Jaunia without it?

347
00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:47.319
Yes?

348
00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:48.559
And why is that?

349
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:53.240
Because that's the whole reason she went home that night.

350
00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:59.559
Did you think from your conversation with Maggie that she

351
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:01.279
was playing him to see mister Randolph too?

352
00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:02.880
I thought so.

353
00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:07.759
I didn't realize that mister Randolph wasn't there at the time.

354
00:24:09.079 --> 00:24:25.079
That was a surprise to you. In the days and

355
00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:31.160
weeks following Maggie and Paul's murder, did that like ever

356
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:32.519
say anything about the boat case.

357
00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:43.799
Uh. We would talk about the boatcase, and he was

358
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.720
very intent on clearing Paul's name.

359
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:49.880
What did he say?

360
00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:58.440
He said that this number one Stember one goal was

361
00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:03.000
clearing Paul's name. And I thought that was so strange

362
00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:06.000
because my number one goal was to find out who

363
00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:07.359
killed my sister and Paul.

364
00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:12.359
But that wasn't alex concern main concern.

365
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:17.039
I know, he, I know he, I know he must

366
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:21.599
wanted that too, but it's just I don't know how

367
00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:23.119
he could have thought about anything else.

368
00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:37.799
But he talked about the boat case. Did he ever

369
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:42.799
act scared or afraid that the real, the real killers

370
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:44.839
were out there somewhere or anything like that, or was

371
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:46.160
he concerned with the boat case.

372
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:49.160
We were afraid. We didn't know what was going on.

373
00:25:50.359 --> 00:25:54.920
My family was scared. I was scared for elcam Buster.

374
00:25:55.640 --> 00:26:02.599
I felt like they needed protection. I think everybody was afraid,

375
00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:17.440
and Felic didn't seem to be afraid.

376
00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:30.960
Did he also talk about getting busted back into law school?

377
00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:32.079
Yes?

378
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:45.720
After the murders. Maggie loved those dogs, didn't she She

379
00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:51.039
like going down there and playing with them. Would she

380
00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:53.880
tend to walk down there or would she take another way.

381
00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:59.200
To get down If she was dining, she'd walk. Sometimes

382
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:03.519
she'd ride her bus, and she take her car. She'd go,

383
00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:06.079
you know, just whatever she thought liked, take her car,

384
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:08.680
pick one of the golf cart things.

385
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:15.720
She wasn't to hunt her though.

386
00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:16.039
It was.

387
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:24.480
What you think about us? Those uh arch style guns

388
00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:28.440
that the boys said, uh.

389
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:32.599
She seemed to be fine with those. I remember when

390
00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:34.839
she wanted to give them those for Christmas. And I

391
00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:37.920
just just growing up with girls and not in the

392
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.839
honey world. I said, Maggie, why would you give those

393
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:44.720
boys those guns, and she said they'd love to shoot hogs,

394
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:48.640
and which I understood that the hogs were tearing up

395
00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:51.799
their property, but it just scared me that they would

396
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:54.759
that the boys would have such a dangerous weapon. But

397
00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:56.440
I know nothing about guns.

398
00:27:56.799 --> 00:28:25.039
So oh, one second problem, like, if testify, please answer

399
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:26.279
any questions the defense may have.

400
00:28:29.519 --> 00:29:21.640
Mister Griffin, Hey, I'm sorry, this is hard for me to.

401
00:29:23.960 --> 00:29:26.240
Maggie was a very special person, wasn't she?

402
00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:27.559
She was?

403
00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:33.599
And she and Alec had a very special relationship, didn't

404
00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:38.559
they did? And they had a very special family, did

405
00:29:38.599 --> 00:29:38.799
they not?

406
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:39.640
They did?

407
00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:44.880
And they loved to do things together as a family,

408
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:45.440
didn't they?

409
00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:46.160
They did?

410
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:49.359
And they and it just wasn't.

411
00:29:50.680 --> 00:29:55.319
Alec and Maggie and Paul and Buster. But your parents

412
00:29:55.400 --> 00:30:00.559
were part of their family, right, Yes? And I doubt

413
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:04.160
you've heard all the testimony here in court, but a

414
00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:08.720
lot of Paul's friends referred to your dad as Papa Tea.

415
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:11.119
Is that what people refer to him as?

416
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:11.559
Yes?

417
00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:14.119
And your mother at Grandma?

418
00:30:14.599 --> 00:30:14.799
Yes?

419
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:17.000
And it sort of seemed like.

420
00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:24.319
Paul and Buster's friends were part of your parents extended family.

421
00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:24.880
Is that right?

422
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:25.440
Yes?

423
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:28.480
And and.

424
00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:33.480
You and your husband and Barn and.

425
00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:40.559
Your children, y'all would all vacation together with not necessarily

426
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:46.640
with Buster and Paul's friends, but with Maggie and Alec

427
00:30:46.759 --> 00:30:51.839
and Paul and Buster and and y'all did things as

428
00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:55.799
a family a lot we did. And Alec was really

429
00:30:55.880 --> 00:31:01.440
close to your parents, wasn't he? Yes, And he considered

430
00:31:01.640 --> 00:31:03.559
your dad as one of his best friends.

431
00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:05.759
I believe he was very kind to my dad.

432
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:11.720
And and y'all, y'all with vacation.

433
00:31:13.960 --> 00:31:15.759
I think you and your husband have a house and

434
00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:18.839
the keys, you would vacation there, right, correct?

435
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:24.160
And and you would do a lot together. You play

436
00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:26.319
something off Lake Kiwi.

437
00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:27.559
Correct?

438
00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:35.759
And I mean you said Maggie was a you know,

439
00:31:35.799 --> 00:31:40.440
a girl, but she took to the boys and and

440
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:46.400
learned to be a mother of two rambunctious sons.

441
00:31:46.519 --> 00:31:47.519
Right she did, and.

442
00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:59.240
And and and you said earlier that about sporting events,

443
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:01.960
that Maggie never never missed.

444
00:32:03.240 --> 00:32:03.599
Any of.

445
00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:07.160
Paul and Buster's sporting events.

446
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:07.839
Is that right?

447
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:13.319
And Alex was there right by Maggie at every sporting event.

448
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:16.599
Wasn't coaching coaching most of the time?

449
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:17.200
Right?

450
00:32:49.079 --> 00:33:02.599
The the weeks leading up to the horrific day of Janus, Yeah,

451
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:04.559
you had a family.

452
00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:08.640
Get together up at Kiwi. We did, and you had daughter?

453
00:33:08.920 --> 00:33:13.039
Was you're having a baby shower for your daughter, right right,

454
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.160
You're about to be a grandmother for the first time.

455
00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:16.279
Yes, yeah.

456
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:19.359
And and where was it?

457
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:25.519
When was it? Where my daughter lives in Greenville, Okay?

458
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:25.960
And the.

459
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:31.079
And and it was the weekend I think of May

460
00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:31.759
twenty first.

461
00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:34.880
I think it was the weekend before Memorial Day?

462
00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:38.519
Weekend, right, And I'm gonna show you a photo and

463
00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:54.599
see if you recognize this photo and it's defendant's exhibit. Yes,

464
00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:58.480
do you recognize that I took that picture? You took

465
00:33:58.519 --> 00:33:59.000
that picture?

466
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:00.480
I did you know? Honor?

467
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:03.359
We would introduce depend it's one twenty two in evidence.

468
00:34:03.079 --> 00:34:04.559
In this time, no objection, you're off?

469
00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:09.840
Can you pull on one twenty two?

470
00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:10.079
Though?

471
00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:17.239
You know, I'm not sure Marion, if Jerry has actually

472
00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:18.840
seen a picture of Maggie in this troll.

473
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:27.000
She's obviously the only female here this photo. And you'll

474
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:34.280
favor each other greatly, right, we do. And this was

475
00:34:34.840 --> 00:34:39.440
a weekend just a couple of me, you said, the

476
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:45.679
weekend before Memorial Day, right, And and desk Buster on

477
00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:51.440
the left, Yes, and that's Paul, right, and then Maggie

478
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:55.760
Alex right, correct, Okay, think you can take that down.

479
00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:23.679
Did did you see Maggie again after being with her

480
00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:28.400
up above Greenville? I did not, So that was the

481
00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:29.800
last time you were together with her.

482
00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:39.960
They were at Edistove for Memorial Day, and then the

483
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:42.119
next weekend was my Birthday and we were back in

484
00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:45.639
the upstate, and then I got the call on Monday.

485
00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:47.400
Can you understand.

486
00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:53.440
The weekend atter Memorial Day, Alec, Maggie went to Columbia

487
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:57.360
for a the Super Reagonal baseball game with Buster and

488
00:35:57.480 --> 00:35:58.400
his girlfriend Brooklyn.

489
00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:00.360
Right, you were aware of that, I am.

490
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:03.800
And and you mentioned that.

491
00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:06.599
Maggie was a big Carolina fan and Alex was a

492
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:07.519
big Carolina fan.

493
00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:07.800
Right.

494
00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:11.159
They both graduated from there, and they went to a

495
00:36:11.239 --> 00:36:14.119
lot of the Carolina sporting events as a couple.

496
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:18.199
Yes, right, And.

497
00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:30.679
And leading up to June seventh. Let well, let me

498
00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:34.800
back up. And I know we've talked about this, and

499
00:36:35.079 --> 00:36:36.920
I don't want this to come out the wrong way, but.

500
00:36:41.320 --> 00:36:45.039
Maggie did a lot for alex mom and dad. But

501
00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:48.920
didn't it make her somewhat sad to go over and

502
00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:50.960
visit his mother because.

503
00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:51.320
Of her condition?

504
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:55.440
Absolutely, And it was really not high on her list

505
00:36:55.519 --> 00:36:58.239
of things that she wanted to do.

506
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:02.800
Maggie went there a lot. She just didn't feel like

507
00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:05.280
she needed to go every day like Alec.

508
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:06.679
Like to go.

509
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:10.960
And and Alec would go every day and sometimes.

510
00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:12.639
More than once a day, as much as he could,

511
00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:13.639
he did, and.

512
00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:18.400
He but.

513
00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:25.599
Maggie cared for mister Randolph.

514
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:27.679
And I know if she loved him I'm talking about

515
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:31.800
she would, you know, prepare food for him and tried

516
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:33.039
to spoil him, wouldn't.

517
00:37:33.079 --> 00:37:36.639
She was the no salt diet and they were all

518
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:40.360
struggling to cook food that he would eat with no salt.

519
00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:46.599
And she experimented with different things, hopefully that he would enjoy.

520
00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:47.079
Right.

521
00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:52.360
The whole family was taking turns and trying to provide meals.

522
00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:57.039
And you know now that on the seventh, I think

523
00:37:57.159 --> 00:38:00.920
in the afternoon, and we'll established this later, but you know,

524
00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:03.800
around four four thirty, uh.

525
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:06.400
Mr Randolph got admitted back to the hospital in Savannah.

526
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:09.199
I know that now, right.

527
00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:15.400
And and you said earlier that that you expected from

528
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:18.320
your conversation with Maggie that she was gonna go over

529
00:38:18.440 --> 00:38:23.039
to I'll Meeta and see Alex's parents on the evening

530
00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:26.920
of of the seventh. But and and you found it

531
00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:30.199
odd afterwards when you found out she did it. Correct,

532
00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:35.599
But knowing that Alex's dad was not there and he

533
00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:39.599
was back in the hospital, it doesn't really seem that.

534
00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:40.760
Odd anymore, does it?

535
00:38:42.679 --> 00:38:43.239
Probably not?

536
00:39:23.960 --> 00:39:24.000
You?

537
00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:32.840
Uh? You?

538
00:39:33.159 --> 00:39:37.559
You and Barrett received the awful phone call from the

539
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:40.679
ninth of the seventh about Maggie and Paul's death. Right,

540
00:39:41.079 --> 00:39:41.400
we did.

541
00:39:42.119 --> 00:39:45.079
And it was from John.

542
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:47.639
Marvin Randy Right, Sorry, I spoke earlier.

543
00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:51.960
And and one of the requests was that you and

544
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:55.840
Bart go and tell your parents in person. Right.

545
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:02.719
I don't know that they requested, but I knew we

546
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:03.920
had to do that in person.

547
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:06.119
So you did that in person, Yes, And then the

548
00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:13.280
next day you came to Mozille with with with your parents.

549
00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:13.960
Correct.

550
00:40:14.119 --> 00:40:25.920
And and Alex was he grieving greatly, terribly. People have

551
00:40:26.559 --> 00:40:29.079
were described him as being destroyed.

552
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:29.400
Is that?

553
00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:31.719
Would you agree with that assessment?

554
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:32.159
Yes?

555
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:44.079
And and Buster was there, yes, okay, And I jumped ahead,

556
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:47.719
and but but leading up, Maggie.

557
00:40:50.519 --> 00:40:54.440
Enjoyed being with being at a stow over Mozille in

558
00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:55.119
the summertime.

559
00:40:56.239 --> 00:40:59.559
Correct. I think most people would get right.

560
00:40:59.719 --> 00:41:01.519
Enjoy did a lot more than being at Mozille.

561
00:41:03.159 --> 00:41:05.880
But Ali had to stay at Moseille, or did stay

562
00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:08.440
at Moseille because his work was right there in Hampton,

563
00:41:09.400 --> 00:41:16.920
and Alec was constantly wanting Maggie to come back and

564
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:18.480
stay with him at Moseille.

565
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:25.480
Perhaps I'm not I'm not sure. I don't think he

566
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:27.519
really liked being by himself.

567
00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:35.760
When he asked Maggie to come back on the seventh.

568
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:39.320
I mean, you didn't think that that was really an

569
00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:43.440
unusual request, because he he wanted to be with Maggie, right,

570
00:41:43.719 --> 00:41:45.360
He didn't like to be by himself.

571
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:48.000
I did not think it was unusual, and that's why

572
00:41:48.039 --> 00:41:49.239
I encouraged her to do so.

573
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:57.639
And and and you from your conversation with Maggie, you

574
00:41:57.719 --> 00:42:00.400
knew that Paul was going to be there, correct, right.

575
00:42:02.519 --> 00:42:10.079
And and do you know what whether do you know

576
00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:12.119
what why Paul was gonna be there? Had you heard

577
00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:13.639
I had?

578
00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:20.239
I didn't know at the time. I know now, m M.

579
00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:28.480
But anyway, he so, and you encouraged Maggie to to

580
00:42:28.599 --> 00:42:32.400
go be with Alec because you know, his dad was

581
00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:41.320
in bad shape right right now after.

582
00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:48.320
After Maggie and Paul were murdered, you know, mister Randolph

583
00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:52.119
died two days later, I believe her three days so

584
00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:54.719
it was a very difficult time for everyone, wasn't it.

585
00:42:57.000 --> 00:42:58.280
And it's and they were.

586
00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:05.400
Two funerals, one on a Saturday for Maggie and Paul

587
00:43:05.559 --> 00:43:12.079
and one on Sunday from Serandolph Frank. And then after

588
00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:17.039
a day or so, did did Alec and Buster come

589
00:43:17.079 --> 00:43:18.679
to Somerville and stay with your parents?

590
00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:19.159
Yes?

591
00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:22.079
And did they stay with your parents a lot after

592
00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:22.639
the murders?

593
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:25.880
Yes, especially Elick, Yeah, Elick.

594
00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:29.400
And you to your knowledge that eli ever spent another

595
00:43:29.559 --> 00:43:31.599
night at Moselle after the murdy he did not.

596
00:43:36.920 --> 00:43:39.599
She stayed, uh, with your parents. She stayed.

597
00:43:40.679 --> 00:43:43.800
He visited with you and your husband and family down

598
00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:46.119
at Key West at some time end of July.

599
00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:46.599
Is that right?

600
00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:47.119
He did?

601
00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:52.440
And then he and Buster came up to Greenville up

602
00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:53.119
at one point.

603
00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:53.960
Uh, they did.

604
00:43:54.239 --> 00:44:04.440
And and then and he was staying with uh, you know,

605
00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:08.360
his brother Randy at times. He was all over the place,

606
00:44:08.559 --> 00:44:19.199
he was. Now you mentioned that.

607
00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:23.440
After after the murders, that that Alex said that he

608
00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:28.920
was that he was very intent on clearing is Paul's

609
00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:30.880
name from the boating accent?

610
00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:31.199
Right?

611
00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:36.960
And and you knew that that Maggie felt very strongly

612
00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:45.480
that Paul was not driving the boat when the beautiful, tragic,

613
00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:50.000
beautiful Mallory Beach came to her tragic death, right, correct?

614
00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:53.639
I mean Maggie was adamant she was on a mission

615
00:44:53.679 --> 00:44:55.599
to clear Paul's name, was she not?

616
00:44:56.920 --> 00:44:57.280
Sort of?

617
00:44:57.800 --> 00:44:58.159
Sort of?

618
00:44:59.719 --> 00:45:00.360
And she he was?

619
00:45:03.599 --> 00:45:08.760
And you're not critical of Alex for warning to clear

620
00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:11.239
Paul's name after he was murdered, you allre you.

621
00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:17.639
I am not critical about that at all. I think

622
00:45:17.719 --> 00:45:22.559
that was his way of honoring Paul after he was gone.

623
00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:25.639
I just.

624
00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:32.559
Thought his priority should have been focusing on finding out

625
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:33.840
who killed Maggie and Paul.

626
00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:38.760
And how do you know that wasn't a priority.

627
00:45:41.679 --> 00:45:47.159
We never talked about it. We never talked about finding

628
00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:53.239
the person who could have done it. It was just

629
00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:59.519
odd and we were sort of living in fear because

630
00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:04.079
we thought this horrible person was out there and we didn't.

631
00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:08.480
We were mostly afraid for Elk and Buster, but we

632
00:46:08.599 --> 00:46:14.960
didn't know the motives behind the killings. We thought it

633
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:19.920
probably had something to do with boat case, right, And

634
00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:27.000
we thought that up until September, right, and then things

635
00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:28.280
started to change a little bit.

636
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:32.800
Sure, were you aware that Alec was started carrying a

637
00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:33.920
gun after the mark.

638
00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:40.039
You didn't they always carried a gun. He always carried

639
00:46:40.039 --> 00:46:42.360
again on his person.

640
00:46:42.440 --> 00:46:44.960
Did he started carrying again? Were you aware of that?

641
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:46.599
I knew he usually had one in his.

642
00:46:46.719 --> 00:47:18.039
Car, right, I I wanna ask you just some sort

643
00:47:18.079 --> 00:47:30.320
of one topic kind of questions. Uh, Bubba was Maggie's

644
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:33.519
an Alex dog. Is that Bubba could be a little

645
00:47:33.559 --> 00:47:34.039
hard headed?

646
00:47:34.119 --> 00:47:40.639
We've heard, uh, but I'm sorry, Yes, Baba, I think

647
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:41.760
Bubba could be a handful.

648
00:47:42.679 --> 00:47:45.719
But it pretty clear that Alex could control Bubba pretty well.

649
00:47:46.119 --> 00:47:48.000
Yes, And.

650
00:47:54.599 --> 00:47:57.920
And Maggie enjoyed going down to the kennels as far

651
00:47:57.960 --> 00:47:59.480
as you know, to play with the dog.

652
00:47:59.639 --> 00:48:03.159
She did, right, And and she was a dog lover,

653
00:48:03.519 --> 00:48:03.840
she was.

654
00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:05.559
And of your dog lover, I am.

655
00:48:05.719 --> 00:48:06.239
And you'll have.

656
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:08.519
Dogs.

657
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:13.519
What you know that they didn't allow dogs in the

658
00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:16.280
house at Moiselle, correct, because.

659
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:20.719
Of I don't I don't know what allergies? Yeah, allergies, right,

660
00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:23.840
But she had They had a big porch and there

661
00:48:23.880 --> 00:48:27.400
were dog beds all outside on the porch, and you know,

662
00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:31.719
huge buckets of water. And when I was there, the

663
00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:33.679
dogs were always up there at the house.

664
00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:37.159
Did you know there was an electric fence around.

665
00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:39.559
I did not know that there was an electric fence.

666
00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:46.079
But and did did Maggie and I like let dogs

667
00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:47.440
in the house down.

668
00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:47.880
Out of stuff?

669
00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:54.280
I don't think so. They stayed mostly underneath the house.

670
00:48:54.800 --> 00:48:56.920
She had a big pen.

671
00:48:56.880 --> 00:49:00.239
Down there, and they had a dog run type thing else.

672
00:49:05.159 --> 00:49:05.360
Yes.

673
00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:12.400
And did you ever go to ali stove and visit

674
00:49:12.519 --> 00:49:17.840
with Yes, with Maggie and Alan and the family. Yes,

675
00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:24.679
and and uh with Paul's friends and Buster's friends welcome.

676
00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:32.519
At always at and at Moseille. Yes, and Maggie loved

677
00:49:32.599 --> 00:49:35.119
having the boys friends around, right.

678
00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:44.719
And I think you mentioned this, but Mozille was Moseille

679
00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:49.400
Paul's passion. Yes, he loved that place. Yes, and Ali

680
00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:51.320
enjoyed being there with Paul.

681
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:52.039
Is that right?

682
00:49:52.840 --> 00:49:53.320
He did.

683
00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:25.599
One second yard, just just very briefly.

684
00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:33.280
I in your own words, you tell a Jerry what

685
00:50:34.119 --> 00:50:36.239
you believe alex relationship was with Paul.

686
00:50:38.039 --> 00:50:44.480
I think they had a a very good relationship. They

687
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:47.719
they loved all the same things. They loved to hunt,

688
00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:49.760
they loved to fish, they loved to work the land.

689
00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:55.440
I think the plan was for Paul to take over

690
00:50:55.559 --> 00:51:03.840
Mozille one day, and they had a great father son relationship.

691
00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:07.119
And in your own words, can you tell the jury.

692
00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:11.480
What do you believe alex relationship with Maggie was?

693
00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:17.239
It was good. It wasn't perfect, but Maggie was happy

694
00:51:17.880 --> 00:51:25.519
and I think i'm she was happy.

695
00:51:26.519 --> 00:51:28.000
Thank you. That's all the questions I have.

696
00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:30.639
Direct please court your honor.

697
00:51:36.199 --> 00:51:39.719
And Maggie called you on the afternoon of June seventh

698
00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:44.280
of twenty twenty one. She reported to you that her

699
00:51:44.360 --> 00:51:46.599
whole purpose for going home was to go with Alec

700
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:51.920
to visit Almeeto. Is that correct? What did Maggie tell

701
00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:55.320
you her whole purpose was in going home and Alec

702
00:51:55.400 --> 00:51:58.559
wanting her to come home on June seventh, twenty twenty one, She.

703
00:51:58.760 --> 00:52:00.760
Was going home to be with I can visit his

704
00:52:00.880 --> 00:52:01.840
parents at Almeta.

705
00:52:02.840 --> 00:52:05.639
It was it was such a point of contention that

706
00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:07.119
you actually encouraged her to go.

707
00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:08.000
I did.

708
00:52:10.599 --> 00:52:19.800
You're asked some questions about you testified about Alec not

709
00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:22.960
being focused on trying to figure out who killed Maggie

710
00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:26.360
and Paul. And then something happened in September?

711
00:52:26.480 --> 00:52:26.920
Is that right?

712
00:52:27.639 --> 00:52:28.000
Correct?

713
00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:31.400
And that changed for you as you started to look

714
00:52:31.400 --> 00:52:33.519
at the motive. Is that correct? That's what you just testified?

715
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:33.960
Correct?

716
00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:34.559
Correct?

717
00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:37.679
And in scepter September he got fired from the law firm.

718
00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:43.000
Right correct, and it started to come out about years

719
00:52:43.119 --> 00:52:47.679
and years of theft and misappropriation with clients. Is that correct?

720
00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:50.599
Objection leading sextions thing?

721
00:52:50.800 --> 00:52:54.239
What came out in September that changed your calculus and

722
00:52:54.840 --> 00:52:57.280
objection exceeding the scope across.

723
00:52:58.000 --> 00:52:58.840
Sections of rule.

724
00:53:01.119 --> 00:53:04.880
We were on our way to a football game and

725
00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:07.599
we received a phone call that from a friend of

726
00:53:08.119 --> 00:53:10.760
ours saying, how sorry.

727
00:53:10.559 --> 00:53:17.199
They this issue that has not been ruled for yours day.

728
00:53:18.320 --> 00:53:20.400
Ladies and gentlemen, have you go to the jury room.

729
00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:32.360
Please do not discuss the case nature of the objection.

730
00:53:33.880 --> 00:53:37.760
She was about to testify that she had heard about

731
00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:38.719
the roadside shooting.

732
00:53:40.679 --> 00:53:43.159
The state is not going into the roadside shooting yet

733
00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:45.360
Your Honor is not ruled on whether that's admissible or not.

734
00:53:46.039 --> 00:53:50.239
We object to under four oh three. Instead of being admissible, and.

735
00:53:52.159 --> 00:53:56.039
The subsequently that is the objection evidence of the roadside shooting.

736
00:53:56.440 --> 00:53:59.519
It just opens up a whole new avenue of issues.

737
00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:03.960
Secondly, what she knows thus far as would be hearsaying,

738
00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:09.039
which is a technical objection. But the certainly we objected

739
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:10.719
any evidence of the roadside shooting.

740
00:54:11.519 --> 00:54:14.519
Of course, Your Honor at this point of course, this

741
00:54:14.679 --> 00:54:18.039
is responsive to a question that was raised on cross

742
00:54:18.119 --> 00:54:22.000
examination by mister Griffin, in which she testified something happened

743
00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:24.639
in September. So for that reason you just begin with,

744
00:54:25.199 --> 00:54:27.239
I believe that door has opened as to her to

745
00:54:27.320 --> 00:54:30.239
explain what it was the change of that period in time,

746
00:54:30.280 --> 00:54:34.159
which was the nature of my question to her. Additionally,

747
00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:40.480
I think if we look beyond that, there is a connection,

748
00:54:40.599 --> 00:54:43.000
if we want to talk and have in camera hearing

749
00:54:43.039 --> 00:54:46.199
about her answer in about four three and four oh four,

750
00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:50.199
there is a logical connection between what happened in the

751
00:54:50.280 --> 00:54:54.760
roadside shooting and what happened on June seventh, twenty twenty one.

752
00:54:55.239 --> 00:54:58.559
And that connection is, of course that the evidence will

753
00:54:58.599 --> 00:55:03.360
show that as the temperature increases, as there's a confrontation

754
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:07.800
for Alec Murdoch, then things like this happened, and that's

755
00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:11.039
what happened on September. But as it relates to this

756
00:55:11.159 --> 00:55:15.280
specific witness, this was an answer that came up during

757
00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:18.679
the defense cross and it's fair to explore with this witness,

758
00:55:18.719 --> 00:55:22.000
now what changed in September, which she's already testified to

759
00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:25.280
from a defense question, and what was the question.

760
00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:29.639
That prompted the response that you now indicate opened the

761
00:55:29.719 --> 00:55:30.920
door opens the door.

762
00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:37.840
This, so in that that particular question, and in her response,

763
00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:41.559
he asked her and he had been of course engaging

764
00:55:41.599 --> 00:55:45.039
in great detail about the family relationship and and that

765
00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:47.360
sort of thing, and put up a picture and all

766
00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:50.880
the rest of it, and asked her about, you know,

767
00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:54.039
her assessment at that particular time, and she went in

768
00:55:54.199 --> 00:55:57.880
and started to explain that. And he was specifically asking

769
00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:02.719
about Alec being con learn about clearing Paul's name in

770
00:56:02.800 --> 00:56:06.719
the boat case. And then she explained further that and

771
00:56:06.800 --> 00:56:08.320
he asked her if that was any big deal, and

772
00:56:08.360 --> 00:56:10.320
then she went on to explain her answer, and that's

773
00:56:10.360 --> 00:56:14.199
when she talked about how everything changed in September. And

774
00:56:14.320 --> 00:56:16.679
that was what I was exploring, what happened in September,

775
00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:19.159
which has been testimony before this jury. And I think

776
00:56:19.239 --> 00:56:23.760
now fair game for them to understand what happened in September.

777
00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:29.280
Sir, Yeah, that was not the question of the question.

778
00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:32.239
That was my question to mister Waters, and he's explained

779
00:56:33.079 --> 00:56:34.639
a whole lot. I don't know if he if he

780
00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:37.760
responded to my question, maybe you will. What was the

781
00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:42.079
question that you posed that generated the response about her

782
00:56:42.199 --> 00:56:44.599
concerns and her concerns changing.

783
00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:47.079
That the question that I asked related to her.

784
00:56:48.079 --> 00:56:53.400
I said, you testified previously that you didn't believe Alex

785
00:56:53.599 --> 00:56:56.599
was concerned about finding out who did this.

786
00:56:57.280 --> 00:56:59.480
Or more concerned about clearing Paul's name.

787
00:57:00.039 --> 00:57:02.320
And then she says, well, it seemed to odd he

788
00:57:02.440 --> 00:57:05.119
wasn't concerned about finding out who did this?

789
00:57:05.360 --> 00:57:08.039
And I said, why do you think he was not concerned?

790
00:57:08.519 --> 00:57:11.199
And then she goes into testifying, well, initially we thought

791
00:57:11.239 --> 00:57:15.760
it was the boating accident, and then after September we

792
00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:19.679
thought perhaps it's something completely different. And I mean I

793
00:57:19.840 --> 00:57:22.840
was exploring her testimony on direct and she offered up

794
00:57:23.079 --> 00:57:28.840
the issue of the roadside shooting. So I didn't ask

795
00:57:28.880 --> 00:57:31.079
anything about the roadside shooting here, and I was asking her.

796
00:57:31.280 --> 00:57:35.599
Why she thought Alec was not trying to you know,

797
00:57:35.679 --> 00:57:37.960
what was the basis of her belief that Alec wasn't

798
00:57:38.239 --> 00:57:39.440
trying to find out who did this?

799
00:57:42.679 --> 00:57:45.519
All right, it's the waters And I apologize if I

800
00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:49.039
wasn't more clear. I don't remember the specific question, but

801
00:57:49.280 --> 00:57:49.519
what I.

802
00:57:49.559 --> 00:57:57.440
Do court reporters off, we'll have Miss Harris if you'll

803
00:57:57.519 --> 00:58:03.079
go back a bit to mister Griffin and his questioning

804
00:58:04.280 --> 00:58:23.880
of Miss Proctor and solely consumed about the Uh. I

805
00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:27.440
don't know how far that was Maggie being consumed about

806
00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:34.119
the boating accident, and m if it's not too far

807
00:58:34.239 --> 00:58:36.920
back from there on up to where where you are now,

808
00:58:48.639 --> 00:58:50.320
and if you need a break, we can take one

809
00:58:51.239 --> 00:58:52.119
to locate it.

810
00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:00.880
By the question.

811
00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:14.079
I'm looking for, you're not critical about Alex wanting to

812
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:15.079
clear Paul's name.

813
00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:17.599
You need to be loud enough for me to hear

814
00:59:17.639 --> 00:59:19.079
you at least here.

815
00:59:21.480 --> 00:59:27.760
Sorry, Okay, okay, okay.

816
00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:32.800
You're not critical about Alex wanting to clear Paul's name

817
00:59:38.920 --> 00:59:43.119
after he was murdered, are you. I am not critical

818
00:59:44.039 --> 00:59:47.960
about that at all. I think that was his way

819
00:59:48.039 --> 00:59:51.119
of honoring Paul after he was gone.

820
00:59:54.199 --> 00:59:55.280
I just thought.

821
00:59:57.920 --> 01:00:02.920
His priority should have been focusing on finding out who

822
01:00:03.039 --> 01:00:04.079
killed Maggie and Paul.

823
01:00:06.039 --> 01:00:08.760
And how do you know that wasn't a priority.

824
01:00:10.880 --> 01:00:12.039
We never talked about it.

825
01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:14.360
We never talked about.

826
01:00:16.199 --> 01:00:18.039
Finding the person who.

827
01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:26.639
Could have done it. It was just odd and we

828
01:00:26.760 --> 01:00:30.639
were sort of living in fear because we thought this

829
01:00:31.039 --> 01:00:33.280
horrible person was out.

830
01:00:33.159 --> 01:00:37.199
There and we didn't. We were mostly afraid for Alex

831
01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:41.000
and Buster. We didn't know the motive behind the killings.

832
01:00:43.119 --> 01:00:46.280
We thought it was probably had something to do with

833
01:00:46.400 --> 01:00:51.639
the boat case, right, And we thought that up until September,

834
01:00:54.039 --> 01:00:58.039
all right, and then things started to change a little bit.

835
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:02.880
Are you aware that Alex started carrying a gun?

836
01:01:08.360 --> 01:01:08.719
All right?

837
01:01:08.880 --> 01:01:13.079
Mister Waters, your honor again if these were in direct

838
01:01:13.079 --> 01:01:16.800
responses to his question as he was exploring her statement

839
01:01:16.880 --> 01:01:19.000
about his concern on the boat case, and in fact,

840
01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:22.599
the reference to September was actually in response to a

841
01:01:22.719 --> 01:01:25.599
follow up question that the defense continued down that line

842
01:01:25.639 --> 01:01:29.360
of questioning. That answer has now come out, and I

843
01:01:29.519 --> 01:01:33.599
think that the witness again is entitled in this fair

844
01:01:33.679 --> 01:01:34.079
game at this.

845
01:01:34.119 --> 01:01:37.199
Point before what changed in September?

846
01:01:38.239 --> 01:01:40.280
What you meant by that, yes, sir, what she meant

847
01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:40.519
by that?

848
01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:42.760
And what changed in September?

849
01:01:45.800 --> 01:01:52.079
Do you talk to them? So we received a phone

850
01:01:52.119 --> 01:01:55.239
call from a friend of ours who said, uh, he

851
01:01:55.400 --> 01:01:57.679
was so sorry to hear about my brother in law.

852
01:01:58.360 --> 01:02:00.719
And the call came in to my husband, Bart, and

853
01:02:00.840 --> 01:02:03.079
Bart said, what are you talking about. We don't know anything,

854
01:02:03.840 --> 01:02:06.400
and he said, well, your brother in law's been shot.

855
01:02:07.880 --> 01:02:13.000
And we literally stopped the car, pulled over on the

856
01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:16.239
side of the road, and it was just the worst

857
01:02:16.400 --> 01:02:20.960
feeling in the world because I thought whoever had killed

858
01:02:21.000 --> 01:02:24.920
Maggie and Paul had now shot Elick, and I was

859
01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:32.760
horrified that Buster was next. So we made a phone

860
01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:39.880
call to Buster, and Buster said his dad had been shot,

861
01:02:40.400 --> 01:02:43.920
but that he was okay, and he was on his

862
01:02:44.039 --> 01:02:46.239
way or in the hospital at that time, I can't remember.

863
01:02:47.719 --> 01:02:54.440
And then at some point, and I'm not sure, I

864
01:02:54.599 --> 01:02:57.320
think I was in shock at some point we spoke

865
01:02:57.400 --> 01:03:01.880
with Jim Griffin that day and he told us that, yes,

866
01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:05.159
Eli had been shot, that he had been fired from

867
01:03:05.239 --> 01:03:08.079
the law firm because he had been caught stealing money.

868
01:03:12.880 --> 01:03:15.159
All right, thank you, sir.

869
01:03:17.239 --> 01:03:21.519
Again, that's that's her explanation. Uh, And I believe that's

870
01:03:21.599 --> 01:03:24.800
fair game in this particular instance, to this particular witnesses

871
01:03:24.880 --> 01:03:30.320
testimony that had come out on cross examination, and I

872
01:03:30.440 --> 01:03:34.480
probably would have h one follow up. Additionally, I should

873
01:03:34.519 --> 01:03:36.360
mention as well, I think there's two other matters that

874
01:03:36.480 --> 01:03:39.760
probably we should explore while the jury's out in fearness, uh,

875
01:03:40.800 --> 01:03:42.679
to the other side and in court that I wanted

876
01:03:42.679 --> 01:03:46.079
to inquire that we're in reference to cross examination. Are

877
01:03:46.159 --> 01:03:47.159
those are different issues?

878
01:03:48.679 --> 01:03:50.719
I was going going in to tell me what they are?

879
01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:57.199
So sure, Uh, there were obviously extensive cross examination about

880
01:03:57.320 --> 01:03:59.920
the family relationship. And there's been extensive evidence offered by

881
01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:03.599
the defense on the cross about the family relationship. And

882
01:04:04.079 --> 01:04:06.480
there were two questions. I was going to ask her

883
01:04:07.440 --> 01:04:18.960
about fidelity concerns and also the Maggie and the family

884
01:04:19.039 --> 01:04:25.400
wrestling with opioid abuse and pill usage by the defendant

885
01:04:31.119 --> 01:04:35.159
has been issues that Maggie had wrestled with and had

886
01:04:35.239 --> 01:04:36.360
expressed to her.

887
01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:44.519
All right, mister Griffin, Well that as to the I

888
01:04:44.519 --> 01:04:46.400
don't know if you want me to address the roadside shooting,

889
01:04:46.880 --> 01:04:52.000
but that's certainly I mean that opens up Pandora's box

890
01:04:52.039 --> 01:04:52.960
of four oh four B.

891
01:04:54.039 --> 01:04:54.519
They want to.

892
01:04:54.519 --> 01:04:57.239
Introduce the roadside shooting his motive. How can you have

893
01:04:57.360 --> 01:05:00.840
motive after the fact, And so it's not a it

894
01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:04.440
should not be amissible one to four h three. But

895
01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:07.880
but just what she says, it is not that harmful.

896
01:05:07.960 --> 01:05:10.079
But they're not going to stop there. You're honor and

897
01:05:10.239 --> 01:05:11.760
and I did not open the door.

898
01:05:11.840 --> 01:05:17.639
I said, you're proving her about Alex's fear. Doesn't Alex,

899
01:05:18.599 --> 01:05:20.920
were you aware that he started carrying a gun? Well,

900
01:05:20.960 --> 01:05:24.119
he always carries gun in his car, but then he

901
01:05:24.199 --> 01:05:30.239
started carrying in his pockets. So you're having her cross

902
01:05:30.320 --> 01:05:36.039
examining her to suggest that Alex was living in fear,

903
01:05:37.119 --> 01:05:41.719
as evidenced by the fact that he uh continued or

904
01:05:41.800 --> 01:05:44.519
started carrying a gun, not in his vehicle but on

905
01:05:44.679 --> 01:05:50.719
his person, and she in her response as well, I

906
01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:55.880
never didn't appear to me that he was living in fear.

907
01:05:55.960 --> 01:05:59.519
I didn't know anything about that, and responding to you

908
01:05:59.679 --> 01:06:07.800
until in September when this occurred. For whatever reason, now

909
01:06:08.039 --> 01:06:15.039
with the truth of what occurred, she's not testifying as

910
01:06:15.039 --> 01:06:18.880
an investigator. She said she heard he'd been shot and

911
01:06:19.000 --> 01:06:25.719
that gave her changed her reason for concern in some way,

912
01:06:25.840 --> 01:06:31.480
whatever that might be. I don't know. Did you still

913
01:06:31.559 --> 01:06:35.599
have a reason for concern? Are you about Alice's safety

914
01:06:35.719 --> 01:06:39.239
or or did it was it changed? Was it altered.

915
01:06:41.559 --> 01:06:47.639
That day? And for some time after that, we were

916
01:06:47.760 --> 01:06:53.039
very concerned for the family. We felt like someone was

917
01:06:53.119 --> 01:06:59.400
after them. But then we started finding out about other

918
01:06:59.519 --> 01:07:02.480
things that have been going on in Elex's life.

919
01:07:04.639 --> 01:07:09.880
And and this is in part based on your conversation

920
01:07:09.960 --> 01:07:11.239
with mister Griffon.

921
01:07:17.079 --> 01:07:19.599
This is everything that has come out since then.

922
01:07:20.320 --> 01:07:22.639
Did you did you say that you had a conversation

923
01:07:22.760 --> 01:07:23.239
with mister.

924
01:07:23.119 --> 01:07:25.840
Griffin that day that we found out that Elick had

925
01:07:25.880 --> 01:07:28.199
been shot. We did have a conversation with mister Griffin

926
01:07:28.239 --> 01:07:28.840
and Jesus.

927
01:07:28.599 --> 01:07:30.920
Everyone told you that he'd been fired and that he'd

928
01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:32.239
been caught stealing money.

929
01:07:32.400 --> 01:07:40.880
Correct, well absolve Herefore, what.

930
01:07:41.000 --> 01:07:43.920
Kind of quality does that put you in? Uh, you're

931
01:07:43.960 --> 01:07:47.239
going to be a witness as well? Well?

932
01:07:47.320 --> 01:07:47.639
It is.

933
01:07:48.400 --> 01:07:52.440
That's a Hearshae statement, without a doubt, It's classic her shiate.

934
01:07:53.400 --> 01:07:56.400
This is the basis for her fear and not having fear,

935
01:07:56.480 --> 01:08:01.159
which is something you or fear or believing that Alex

936
01:08:01.320 --> 01:08:06.239
was in fear, that's something that you're approbing. Aside from

937
01:08:06.280 --> 01:08:14.280
that issue, how about the family relationship issue fidelity? Hope

938
01:08:14.320 --> 01:08:17.520
youoid abuse concerns your.

939
01:08:17.439 --> 01:08:21.119
Honor with regard to fidelity. We can hear what she

940
01:08:21.239 --> 01:08:24.439
says about it, but the evidence, as I understand it

941
01:08:24.560 --> 01:08:26.199
is ten or fifteen years ago.

942
01:08:26.279 --> 01:08:28.079
I don't know how long ago, but it was more

943
01:08:28.119 --> 01:08:28.880
than ten years ago.

944
01:08:29.479 --> 01:08:33.079
There was some issue about someone that Alegant known in

945
01:08:33.159 --> 01:08:34.520
college reaching out to him.

946
01:08:36.039 --> 01:08:38.239
Maggie got angry about that they had.

947
01:08:38.680 --> 01:08:41.119
Got ten fifteen years ago or recently.

948
01:08:41.079 --> 01:08:47.239
Yes, yes, and that Maggie got angry about it. Contacted

949
01:08:47.359 --> 01:08:49.199
the woman's husband who says.

950
01:08:50.560 --> 01:08:51.399
It's not true.

951
01:08:51.560 --> 01:08:53.920
I know who she's seeing because I have a private

952
01:08:53.960 --> 01:08:55.520
eye owner that led to a divorces.

953
01:08:56.439 --> 01:08:58.039
A fifteen year old conversation.

954
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:05.000
Yes, and then then the opioid stuff, your honor is.

955
01:09:07.199 --> 01:09:11.439
I'm not sure what information she's going to share about that.

956
01:09:11.720 --> 01:09:15.800
Frankly, well, you had one earlier witness read a letter

957
01:09:15.880 --> 01:09:18.399
about him being in rehab that.

958
01:09:18.479 --> 01:09:23.079
They introduced, yes, sir, that you published. I's sorry in

959
01:09:23.119 --> 01:09:26.880
evidence you ever decond.

960
01:09:29.279 --> 01:09:32.119
Mister Waters those issues.

961
01:09:32.720 --> 01:09:35.000
First of all, with the first.

962
01:09:35.680 --> 01:09:42.000
Step down for a break, don't discuss your case. You're fine, okay, good,

963
01:09:42.119 --> 01:09:42.479
all right.

964
01:09:43.960 --> 01:09:46.800
With the issue of the first matter, I think it's

965
01:09:47.119 --> 01:09:52.079
certainly a fair question to say, I did Maggie ever

966
01:09:52.159 --> 01:09:55.119
expressed to you any concerns Were there ever any concerns

967
01:09:55.159 --> 01:09:59.960
and issues with the defendant's fidelity? I think that's clear

968
01:10:00.680 --> 01:10:04.840
in response to the extensive it's been offered by the defense.

969
01:10:05.720 --> 01:10:08.520
You said, has she ever such as fifteen years ago?

970
01:10:08.880 --> 01:10:11.039
Well, I think that my follow up question would be,

971
01:10:11.439 --> 01:10:15.079
was that something that remained in Maggie's mind over the

972
01:10:15.199 --> 01:10:18.760
years up until she would know that? I think that

973
01:10:18.840 --> 01:10:20.800
if I asked her that question, she could express an

974
01:10:20.800 --> 01:10:22.560
answer to that, yes, sir, What.

975
01:10:22.720 --> 01:10:23.520
Is the answer to that.

976
01:10:26.239 --> 01:10:28.880
It was an affair that happened or Maggie thought it

977
01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:36.920
was an affair that happened many years ago. They were

978
01:10:37.119 --> 01:10:42.479
able to resolve the issues, but Maggie still brought it up.

979
01:10:43.880 --> 01:10:44.920
Recently when.

980
01:10:47.920 --> 01:10:52.840
A year ago she did not think anything was going on.

981
01:10:53.319 --> 01:10:55.079
She just it still bothered her.

982
01:10:56.720 --> 01:10:58.520
All right, Yeah, just.

983
01:11:00.079 --> 01:11:05.159
During when that event occurred, did she make Alec leave

984
01:11:05.199 --> 01:11:06.479
the household for a period of time?

985
01:11:06.840 --> 01:11:07.119
She did?

986
01:11:13.840 --> 01:11:15.319
Frame when this happened, I mean.

987
01:11:16.359 --> 01:11:18.760
Fifteen years ago or how long ago was that?

988
01:11:19.119 --> 01:11:21.119
It was a very long time ago. I'm not sure,

989
01:11:23.279 --> 01:11:26.199
a very long time ago, I think.

990
01:11:26.520 --> 01:11:28.920
Again, I'm not trying to make it bigger than it is,

991
01:11:29.000 --> 01:11:31.399
but I think given the issues that have been squarely

992
01:11:31.439 --> 01:11:34.079
in front of the jury, the States entitled, at least

993
01:11:34.119 --> 01:11:38.199
in a limited fashion to offer this, uh some testimony

994
01:11:38.239 --> 01:11:41.720
in this regard that you know that there everything was

995
01:11:41.800 --> 01:11:45.439
not perfect, As the defense is repeatedly elicited and so

996
01:11:45.640 --> 01:11:48.560
on that particular issue. I only propose a limited question

997
01:11:49.079 --> 01:11:52.560
that you know, had Maggie ever had any concerns about

998
01:11:52.600 --> 01:11:55.760
fidelity and had those concerns continue to bother her? And

999
01:11:55.840 --> 01:11:58.560
that would be the extent of my proposed examination for

1000
01:11:58.560 --> 01:11:59.359
her on that issue.

1001
01:12:01.079 --> 01:12:04.720
All right, anything else for two thousand and seven is

1002
01:12:04.760 --> 01:12:07.439
our understanding two thousand and seven fifteen years ago?

1003
01:12:07.760 --> 01:12:10.279
Well, yeah, two thousand and seven was fifteen.

1004
01:12:10.039 --> 01:12:13.000
Years ago, and that's when it occurred.

1005
01:12:13.199 --> 01:12:18.359
Well that's been established. Give me something new. Well, other

1006
01:12:18.439 --> 01:12:20.199
than repeating fifteen years ago.

1007
01:12:21.319 --> 01:12:26.159
Four three, it's not admissible under four h three. Unfair

1008
01:12:26.279 --> 01:12:30.439
prejudice outweighs the probative value of this whether it still

1009
01:12:30.520 --> 01:12:35.800
bothered her. I mean, she testified that they weren't without

1010
01:12:36.039 --> 01:12:39.239
their problems like all married couples, but they had a

1011
01:12:40.359 --> 01:12:46.000
good marriage. I mean, it's been addressed, and it's highly inflammatory.

1012
01:12:48.920 --> 01:12:56.720
That's why your questions have to not lead into things

1013
01:12:56.760 --> 01:12:59.439
that might be inflammatory. We're going to be in recess

1014
01:12:59.520 --> 01:13:03.359
for about fifteen minutes. The witness can testify as to

1015
01:13:03.439 --> 01:13:08.279
her concern as to what occurred on September seventh that

1016
01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:20.600
changed her concern about Alex living in fear. She cannot

1017
01:13:20.680 --> 01:13:25.600
testify as to on a fidelity issue because that's too

1018
01:13:25.720 --> 01:13:28.680
remote in time and we tend to confuse the jury.

1019
01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:33.800
She can testify that she discovered that he'd been fired

1020
01:13:34.119 --> 01:13:38.960
and that and that he had a drug problem.

1021
01:13:44.720 --> 01:13:48.560
Depending how that testimony goes, we would have Hear'Say objections

1022
01:13:48.600 --> 01:13:50.680
that she's testifying as to what someone told me.

1023
01:13:52.000 --> 01:13:54.399
She's not testifying as to the truth of it. She's

1024
01:13:54.520 --> 01:14:01.640
responding to why her concerns were change changed based on

1025
01:14:02.680 --> 01:14:05.920
uh in part of her conversations with you. No, no,

1026
01:14:05.960 --> 01:14:08.399
I understand that agent from mister Murdoch.

1027
01:14:08.680 --> 01:14:13.159
Well, I understand that my point I just stood to

1028
01:14:13.319 --> 01:14:17.560
addresses the family wrestling wrestling with opioid and pill use

1029
01:14:17.640 --> 01:14:18.359
by the defendant.

1030
01:14:19.119 --> 01:14:22.720
That that is hearsay if if that's how she knows.

1031
01:14:23.439 --> 01:14:26.199
Problem, I mean, if you want to talk about specifically.

1032
01:14:26.279 --> 01:14:32.119
I don't know to what degree she discovered his drug problem,

1033
01:14:32.600 --> 01:14:35.199
opioid addiction or whatever it is, but it's already an

1034
01:14:35.199 --> 01:14:36.039
evidence anyway.

1035
01:14:36.279 --> 01:14:36.399
You know.

1036
01:14:36.560 --> 01:14:39.319
I understand. I'm just advising the court that I will

1037
01:14:39.359 --> 01:14:41.119
be making hearsay objections that that's.

1038
01:14:43.600 --> 01:14:45.760
Anything else before the jury comes.

1039
01:14:48.119 --> 01:14:49.079
Not from say this time.

1040
01:14:54.399 --> 01:14:56.359
The objections overrue and may continue.

1041
01:14:57.079 --> 01:15:02.840
May please court your on, Miss Proctor. When we left

1042
01:15:02.880 --> 01:15:06.199
them break, I was asking you what happened in September

1043
01:15:06.880 --> 01:15:09.840
that caused you to change your assessment. Can you describe that.

1044
01:15:09.880 --> 01:15:10.720
To the jury please?

1045
01:15:12.079 --> 01:15:14.920
On September fourth, we were headed to a football game

1046
01:15:15.439 --> 01:15:17.600
and my husband Bart received a phone call from a

1047
01:15:17.680 --> 01:15:20.960
friend saying he was so sorry to hear about what

1048
01:15:21.119 --> 01:15:25.079
had happened to my brother in law. And we had

1049
01:15:25.159 --> 01:15:29.239
no idea what he was talking about, and he said, well,

1050
01:15:29.479 --> 01:15:31.800
we've heard, you know. He told us he had been shot.

1051
01:15:33.279 --> 01:15:35.760
So we pulled over on the side of the road.

1052
01:15:36.159 --> 01:15:41.319
We were all in hysterics. We called Buster and Buster said, yes,

1053
01:15:42.680 --> 01:15:44.520
that his dad had been shot, that he was being

1054
01:15:44.560 --> 01:15:49.119
airlifted to the hospital, that they thought he was hoped

1055
01:15:49.119 --> 01:15:50.000
he was going to be okay.

1056
01:15:51.319 --> 01:15:52.560
So we.

1057
01:15:54.319 --> 01:15:59.439
Wanted more information, so we called Jim Griffin and he

1058
01:15:59.600 --> 01:16:02.119
told us us that Alec had been shot in the

1059
01:16:02.199 --> 01:16:06.079
head and that he had been fired from his law

1060
01:16:06.159 --> 01:16:07.880
firm for stealing.

1061
01:16:09.239 --> 01:16:11.039
What was your concern when you heard that he had

1062
01:16:11.079 --> 01:16:11.520
been shot.

1063
01:16:15.199 --> 01:16:18.399
Initially I thought he might be dead. I had just

1064
01:16:18.520 --> 01:16:24.159
lost two of the family members, and I felt like

1065
01:16:25.039 --> 01:16:27.359
they were being targeted. At that point, I felt like

1066
01:16:27.479 --> 01:16:28.880
the family was being targeted.

1067
01:16:30.520 --> 01:16:34.239
Subsequent to that, did your concern that the family was

1068
01:16:34.319 --> 01:16:36.119
being targeted? Did that change as well?

1069
01:16:37.439 --> 01:16:43.640
Over the course of a few weeks, we were still

1070
01:16:43.680 --> 01:16:48.479
on high alert, worried for buster. But at that point

1071
01:16:48.760 --> 01:16:52.960
information started coming out about some things that Alick had

1072
01:16:53.000 --> 01:17:00.399
done financially that we hadn't no idea about out.

1073
01:17:01.840 --> 01:17:04.560
And that changed your assessment about what you heard about

1074
01:17:04.600 --> 01:17:05.479
him being shot as well?

1075
01:17:05.600 --> 01:17:06.479
Is that correct.

1076
01:17:09.159 --> 01:17:24.000
Answer the shooting that was an event in itself the

1077
01:17:24.119 --> 01:17:24.920
road side shooting.

1078
01:17:37.079 --> 01:17:40.119
You just stated that the shooting itself, the roadside shooting,

1079
01:17:40.159 --> 01:17:43.359
was an invent itself. Did other information come to your

1080
01:17:43.359 --> 01:17:45.760
attention to change your assessment about the roadside shooting at

1081
01:17:45.760 --> 01:17:54.920
a later time, Yes, and changed that initial concern that

1082
01:17:55.079 --> 01:17:56.479
Alec was somehow being targeted.

1083
01:17:56.680 --> 01:17:56.840
Yes.

1084
01:17:59.359 --> 01:18:02.199
Did Maggie have a nickname.

1085
01:18:02.199 --> 01:18:02.880
For Paul.

1086
01:18:04.800 --> 01:18:10.720
As Little? What is detective?

1087
01:18:11.079 --> 01:18:13.720
Little Detective? And what did that mean?

1088
01:18:15.479 --> 01:18:24.159
She felt like that he was always looking to make

1089
01:18:24.199 --> 01:18:32.119
sure his dad was behaving. And what specifically was the

1090
01:18:32.199 --> 01:18:37.880
concern pills prescription pain pills.

1091
01:18:40.119 --> 01:18:46.560
Have had Maggie expressed to you concern over time about

1092
01:18:46.720 --> 01:18:54.359
the defendant's pill usage. Yes, how long had that been

1093
01:18:54.439 --> 01:18:54.720
going on?

1094
01:18:57.319 --> 01:19:00.199
I am not sure, but I think it had been

1095
01:19:00.239 --> 01:19:01.359
going on for some time?

1096
01:19:02.359 --> 01:19:05.920
And did that concern continue up until recent times as

1097
01:19:05.960 --> 01:19:08.239
we moved to their bagging Paul's murder?

1098
01:19:10.079 --> 01:19:10.279
Yes?

1099
01:19:14.560 --> 01:19:17.560
And what did specifically little detective mean as it related

1100
01:19:17.600 --> 01:19:18.159
to the pills.

1101
01:19:21.199 --> 01:19:26.159
If there were pills in the house that his dad

1102
01:19:26.399 --> 01:19:29.800
was taking that he wasn't supposed to, Paul was determined

1103
01:19:30.079 --> 01:19:30.960
that he would find them.

1104
01:19:32.720 --> 01:19:34.199
And did that happen on occasions?

1105
01:19:36.319 --> 01:19:36.720
I think so?

1106
01:19:36.920 --> 01:20:02.479
Yet hold on for me once a night. What specifically

1107
01:20:02.600 --> 01:20:06.960
changed your perception of the roadside shooting? Now, for your initial.

1108
01:20:06.720 --> 01:20:12.640
Concern, the.

1109
01:20:15.279 --> 01:20:19.760
Story that was initially told about what happened came to.

1110
01:20:19.840 --> 01:20:22.119
Not be true, the story told by who.

1111
01:20:25.279 --> 01:20:25.560
Ellen.

1112
01:20:27.079 --> 01:20:39.000
Yes, yes, thank you, anything further, thank you may step down.

1113
01:20:41.039 --> 01:20:46.479
Just so sad, I just could not imagine. And for

1114
01:20:46.640 --> 01:20:48.920
those of you that have siblings out there, I'm sure

1115
01:20:49.000 --> 01:20:50.399
you could not either.

1116
01:20:52.199 --> 01:20:53.000
And there you have it.

1117
01:20:54.680 --> 01:20:59.640
A little bit from Maggie Murdoch's family. And next week

1118
01:20:59.760 --> 01:21:02.840
will pick up again where we left off with episode

1119
01:21:02.920 --> 01:21:06.159
twenty five, and that is more regarding Clerk of Court

1120
01:21:06.479 --> 01:21:11.880
Becky Hill and the repercussions of her jury tampering.

1121
01:21:13.000 --> 01:21:14.159
So look for that.

1122
01:21:15.640 --> 01:21:21.359
And until next time for exposed scandalous files of the Elite,

1123
01:21:22.159 --> 01:21:23.600
I'm your host, Jim Chapman.

1124
01:21:24.560 --> 01:21:25.159
Much love,