"Murdaugh" Episode Twenty One | "The Stand" Day 2

0:18 Hey everyone, and welcome back to Exposed Scandalous Files of the Elite. I'm your host, Jim Chapman, and we are back with another Murdall series. This twenty first episode in that series. And the last time that we left you, creating, Waters was just eating Alec Murdall's lunch on that stand. But we're going to continue on with it, and we're going to start with this first clip where Waters continues to focus on Murdoll's stealing. Now, why so much focus on that? And I bring that up because several people who listen to this round one of questioning that we play last week they had that question and I had that question initially. But I want to go ahead and answer the question as to why Creighton Waters was focusing so hard on the money aspect of this case. And in my opinion, this was to prove motive, which is the most important aspect of this case. Remember, the burden to proof all rest on the prosecution, and they lacked any solid evidence that Mardall committed these murders. They had no murder weapon, they had no eye witnesses, no DNA that would point to Merdoll specifically as the killer. So everything they had in this case was circumstantial everything. And that's the very question they had to answer, what circumstances

1:50 would cause Alex Mardall to kill his son and his wife? And the answer, the only. Answer is money or the pressure created by the lack of money. The lack of money caused Alex Murdall to do a lot of crazy shit. First he stole from his clients, Second, he stole from his firm. And third the prosecution is wanting to convince that jury that he killed his wife and his son because of the massive money issues that he was having, And honestly, it was the only motive they had. Waters had to convince this jury that it was enough to lead to Alex committing these murders. So in this first clip he kind of continues on that course and he takes Alex down what I would term as Alex's despicable road of deceit.

2:52 Listen to this murder. Good morning, mister Waters. All right, let's see if we can move forward with this a little bit. See we can go back to some things we may be able to agree on. All right, you all right, first thing is is that the money you were stealing, in addition to your income. And the money you were borrowing was not just to pay for drugs. Would you agree with that? Sure? All right? And would you agree that you're stealing in addition to the money you were borrowing increased over the years as we moved towards June of twenty twenty one?

3:43 Repeat that, please, says. Would you agree that you're stealing increased over the years as we move towards June of twenty twenty one? Yes, sir, right? And would you admit that you're stealing increased in particular after the boat wreck? I know, sir, I don't agree with that. You don't agree with that. I think I continued to do it, But I don't as I sit here today, I don't think I took more money that I should not have taken after the boat wreck than I did before the boat wreck. Okay, but again, those documents speak for themselves, mister Waters, and if that's the case, then that's the case. But as we sit here, I think that I probably wrongly took from clients and people that trusted me more as much money before that boat wreck as after.

4:45 Right, And I'm not trying. I'm just trying to get through this. So we don't get bogged down like we did yesterday, all right, I understand, all right, So you wouldn't agree with me that in twenty nineteen alone you stole about three point seven million dollars. No, I think that's correct, all right? And you would you agree with me the other that that figure in twenty nineteen was generally higher than any other year that you've been stealing since twenty eleven. In any year. Sure, i'd agree with that. I thought you were talking about overall the whole you know, the whole cycle. But yeah, I would agree that in twenty nineteen I stole more money than any other year.

5:31 Would you agree with me that from twenty fifteen on, your legitimate income, while still very strong, was diminishing as a general matter. Well, I think whatever my income is speaks for itself. But as a general rule, a planet's Laurie doing what we do. Income ebbs and flows. Some you have some really good years, you have some really lean years, and no, I think I had some. I think I had some good years. Maybe not the you know, four and five million dollar years, but I think I had some two and three million dollar years in there. And and my case load was such that you know, I had one of the things I was working on that Monday was one of the biggest cases that I've ever.

6:23 Been involved in, inbout the Dominu case, Right, yes, sir. And so you know I think it was cyclical. I think it, So I don't without looking at the record specifically, I don't necessarily agree with that. Okay, So you don't remember, then, no, I do remember. I don't think I agree with that. But again, those records will speak for themselves. Okay, all right, So would you agree with me that in twenty fourteen your reported income was over a million dollars Jackson?

7:04 The objection's overrule. Reported income, like tax lines are reported. I assume you have a document that says that. And if you're reading that from a document, I don't dispute it. I mean, I'm happy to show it to you if you lateen. I trust you, mister Waters. So all right, I appreciate that. All right. Twenty fifteen, would you agree that your reported income was ever two million dollars? Again, I don't dispute that, right. Twenty sixteen reported income nine hundred thousand dollars, okay, twenty seventeen reported an income two hundred and eighteen thousand dollars okay to twenty eighteen reported income of seven hundred and forty nine thousand dollars roughly okay, and twenty nineteen reported income of six hundred and fifty five thousand dollars okay.

7:53 And see that that I mean to me, that demonstrates exactly what I'm talking about, how it goes up in now. And would you agree with me that though during those periods of time where you were making that kind of money, you continue to steal. And I think you've already said that you're stealing increased as we moved through those years. As a general matter. Absolutely, I don't dispute, and I have never disputed since I was confronted on Labor Day weekend that I took money from my clients. We've gone through that well. But I'm asking you if you're if you're income.

8:40 Offense your So the point is is I have never since been confronted that day my brother and my partner came to talk to me that I have stolen money that did not belong to me, that I misled people to do it, people that I cared about still care about a lot of them, that I love and still love, and I misled them to do it, and I was wrong. I have never disputed that from day one, and.

9:22 We've been through that. All I'm trying to establish right now with you, mister Murdoch, is as we move towards June twenty twenty one, what your financial condition was like. Okay, I agree, you've testified to that multiple times. All right, so let me ask you this during this time that your income is what we just went through, and you've conceded that your stealing was increasing, were you also borrowing significant amount of money from Palmeta State Bank? Yes, I'd always borrow a significant amount of money from pal Meta State Bank or for the last more than the last de so yes, sir, I'd agree with that.

10:03 As we moved to June of twenty twenty one, did you have a million dollar line of credit with a bank that was pretty much maxed out? Yes? Or no? And as we moved to June of twenty twenty one, so. In June of twenty one, sure, yes, all right? And did you also have a six hundred thousand dollars line of credit that was pretty much maxed out around that time? I did? And did you also over the years repeatedly borrow six figures from your law partners. Well, I borrowed money from a law partner. Which one Johnny park Johnny Parker, Okay, And that was a fairly common occurrence over the years.

10:47 It happened multiple times. Would you agree with that. I agree that it happened multiple times, all right. And you would agree also that you would sometimes use some of the stolen money to pay that back. I won't dispute that. I don't know that that's the case. I know what I saw mister Bernie testify to in using that particular accounting method. You know, I see that, So I don't dispute that, all right. And would you agree that you also, when you needed money, occasionally borrow as much as five and six figures from your father, mister Randall, I did. And would you also agree that over the years, particularly as we moved to June of twenty twenty one, you would use stolen money to pay that back.

11:39 I don't dispute that if that's what the records show. All right. And you just mentioned you're in the testimony of Carson Bernie and the banker and all that you would agree with me that as we moved to June of twenty twenty one, at least in liquid funds, you were running out of the money. In liquid funds? Is in money on hand or money that I. Could get, money that you could liquid funds. You're a lawyer, you know what liquid means. Well, I don't know what you mean by liquid, mister Waterson. So money you could readily access, assets that you could readily access to pay your ever increasing debts. No, sir, I don't agree with that. You don't agree with that.

12:19 I do not agree with that, and I'll tell you why. All right? And so are we talking about June? I'm talking about as we moved to gin okay? But what time period are you talking about? Let's talk about January to Gine. Okay, January to Jine, January to June. You know, I could borrow money from my father. I could borrow money from Johnny Parker. I could go to the bank and borrow money. I had substantial equity in the Edistone house, as we've talked about. Which was in Maggie's name, correct. Well, it was in Maggie and my name, all right, So you know that definitely was in both of our names.

13:05 Mozelle was in Maggie's name, the substantial equity in that that could have been barred against. So under the terms as you defined liquid assets just now money that I would have access to. I disagree with on that for those reasons that I just said. Can we at least agree that generally the way the compensation structure for a legitimate money that you earned in your law firm, the vast majority of your compensation does not come except in one lump sum in December. Can we agree to that, right, we get a salary, we would receive a salary. I believe our salary was one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars, and then the income that was earned would be paid in the form of a bonus at the year end.

13:54 All right, And then would you agree with me that that is why you stole the Feris fees in March of twenty twenty one, because you were in desperate need of funds and you could not wait soil December to access those funds. I think there's probably a lot of reasons why I stole those funds, but I certainly would believe, or don't dispute did that's one of the reasons and what do. You agree with me that the seven hundred ninety two thousand dollars that you stole of those Ferris funds, that you exhausted those within about two months.

14:34 I don't know the time period, but I know that they I know that I exhausted them. Now again, I'm trying to get through this quickly because there's a lot more to talk about, obviously, but we went through a number of questions yesterday about the various clients that you stole from. Correct you remember that. Let's cut the back and forth we had yesterday. Do you remember all that? Sure? I did? Okay, all right, And so I'm going to try to short change this, but I think it's important. That released.

15:17 Say the names of the people that were involved. But let's just do this to see if we can to the comment you're on and approve me. I'll rephrase your own. The clients that we're talking about. These are all real people, yes or not. There are all real people. There are all good people. There are all people that I care about that I cared about then, and a lot of them people that I love, Okay, and I did wrong by them. Yes, you hurt the people that you love, I know, so.

15:59 Sustain. These were all people, every single one of them, that you at least had a personal conversation. With at some point during the course of your representation. All of my client representation. Absolutely, I had multiple conversations with all of my clients. And these were people, every single one of them, real people that you looked in the eye and convinced them that everything was right. And Hunter four oh three repetitive accumulatives spent two hours doing the. Shoesterday's simple questions that apply to everybody, and then I'm moving on proceeds.

16:39 I would have had conversations with all of my clients, and at some of the conversations would have been on the telephone. I would have had conversations where I might not be looking them into the eye. I would have had plenty of conversations where I did look them in the eye. Every single one of them. Look them in the eye at least once. Is that fair? Sure, every single one of them you look them in the eye and develop their trust in you. Is that true? Every client that I had, at some point I looked them in the eye, and I believe that I had the trust of my clients. Whether that came from me looking them in the eye or not. I can't answer that, but I will agree with you that every single client I looked them in the eye. And I believe that the people that I stole money from for all those years trusted me.

17:32 And I'm gonna show you what's been previously admitted to states three twenty nine, I believe it is, and three fourteen, and I'm just going to ask you to cruise those freadsheets really quickly. All right, So I'm sorry, what was your question? I just asked you to look at them. Maybe I had a chance to review those documents I have, And would you agree with me for every single name on here or either clients that trusted you that you stole from or instances in which you stole from your law partners who trusted you as well. I agree with that, all right, So we don't need to go through each one of these correct.

18:13 Agree, mister Waters. Like I've told you, I'll go through whatever you want to go through. But each one of those clients is just what we've already talked about. Good people, find people, upstanding people. They trusted me, every single one of them. I did, and I do still care about and many of them I love and considered him close friends like Baron Boyer. Absolutely, it's a perfect example. And you stole from Baron Boyer. I did. Do you recall a conversation that you have with Ronnie Crosby in which he told you that Barrot was desperate for money because he needed his wife to stay in a hotel near him while he was undergoing treating for terminal cancer around the time that you stole from him, all that.

19:11 Jackson's over. I don't recall that conversation, but you know, I knew Barrett was sick. That you know, Barrett is a unique situation. I mean, Barrett, Barrett. Is and was. Dear to me as a friend. But I mean Barrett and I had a long, long history, you know, I guess really and I lied probably more by omission, lies by mission and stealing that money. But that's a perfect example.

19:52 You keep asking about me having these conversations and looking people in the eye. I mean, that's a perfect example. I mean when I stole that money, he was no where around. It was more based on lies by a mission. And Barrett and I had such a history. These real estate deals that you're asking me about Barrett was one of my good friends, and we had been in these real estate deals together. Barrett was just an interesting person. He was a shrimper, was born and raised in Allendale County, and he moved down to the coast and as shrimping. I don't know that we need Barrett's entire life story. No, but it's important. But I understand this based on the question you asked.

20:35 I don't think his entire life story is responsible on him. And I'm not intending to give his life story. I'm just telling you a little background about your friend. So Barrett started started getting into real estate, and he was really good at it, and so I started getting involved with him. And that he could go out and find pieces of property that were really cheap, get them and sell them and make money. Well, we got in some of these deals, and we got in this bar and some other people. Well, when the recession hit, one of the reasons these land deals caused me trouble is because the people that I was in these deals with no longer could pay. Where whereas I might have gone in and I was a twenty percent person, I'm now all of a sudden, either I have to default at the bank and affect credit affectability to borrow or I have to pay one hundred percent, And so that's what I did.

21:39 I paid one hundred percent, and so there were years where I was paying. Instead of a fifth or a half, I'm paying the whole thing, and it equated to hundreds of do it equated to millions of dollars, which is one of the ways why I ended up with the Moselle property, because I had paid more than a million dollars in money's for Barrett, and that was part of the deal in the trade in me purchasing Moseille. Telling me as you felt like you were entitled to steal from it. No, No, you know what I will tell you this that you know, when you're doing the things wrong that I was doing, you have all kinds of ways of justifying it. And I'm not saying that makes it right by any means, because it's not is wrong. I've said that a hundred times. But when I was doing it, and I was as addicted as I was, and the things I was doing, there's all kinds of things that you you know, to be able to look yourself in the mirror, you lie to yourself. And I guess self justification for these bad things. You know, I guess this is what I was doing. But you know, Barrett had owed me so much money that when I took his money, I just didn't tell him. So it was it was

23:12 a lie about omission. All right. All these people on these two exhibits, these were real people that needed this money. Is that correct? I'm sure they did, But it was more important to you that you stole their money on top of the forty percent of legal fees that you were taking. Repetitive slack question. I stole their money. It was more important to you than their needs. Is that correct? Objection objections the rule. I don't remember sitting down and calculating, okay, is this more important?

23:54 You know? One of the self justifications that I talked about, mister Waters is and this is one of the things. Again, I want to make it clear, I don't as I sit here today, I do not believe that any of this justifications that I'm talking about made any of this okay, because I don't. I've owned up to all this money I stole. I've tried to since I was confronted, and I continue here today. But one of the justifications at the time when I was taking pills and doing the things I was doing. Was I may ask a partner, okay, how much is this case worth? And if one of my partners and I may not even give them all the real facts, okay. So if they said this case is worth one hundred thousand dollars, okay, and I go out and I get them three hundred thousand dollars, you know, that's one of the stupid little things. Okay, Well this isn't the same. And that's one of those justifications that I use, and looking back on this that I don't know how I did. But so to sit down and say, did I evaluate that they needed the money more than I did? You know, I don't think I did that.

25:14 I think I was selfish and I I think I just took the money. I think I understand. I asked a series of questions yesterday about at least relating one conversation you had with one of these clients, and I'm just gonna ask you this one. Do you remember looking Tony Sadfield in the eye and lying to him. I remember lying to Tony Satterfield, and I remember looking him in the eye on many occasions. And lying to him. Yeah, lying to his family.

25:58 I lied to his family. I don't know if I did it in person, but I know I had phone conversations with him where I lied to him. Now, another contributing factor for the stealing, at least was Murdall's own emission of being addicted to painkillers. But while Murdall emits to being an addict, Waters is really suspicious that he's kind of overblown this a little bit. And in the next clip they discuss his addiction and his firm's reaction to discovering that addiction. Let's talk a little bit about the pills if we can, Okay, And you've already testified and a says other people that you were still able to function as a lawyer over the years despite the pills that you reuse.

26:52 It's right, right, yes, sir. And you were able to during this period of time to engage in these relatively complicated tufts that increased over the years that we've just talked about despite the pill usage. Is that correct? I was? I was? And you were also able to during the time period convince your staff that nothing was a mess with all these exhibits despite your pill usage.

27:33 I mean, most of those didn't require convincing my staff. But just so we're on the same page again, I acknowledge that I certainly allowed them to be misled. I certainly allowed them to do things that I shouldn't have done on my behalf, knowing that they trusted me. How many how many pills were you using a. Day depends on. A number of items, most most importantly how strong the pill was.

28:15 Okay, well, let's talk about Let's say start maybe in January of twenty twenty one and move forward. Can you describe to the jury what your daily pill intake was like. I think at that time most of what I was purchasing was thirty milligram pills instant release oxy codone that probably mixed in with some oxy contin, which is made of oxy codone. It's just time release. I would have been taken anywhere from fifteen one hundred milligrams maybe to maybe a thousand or maybe a thousand milligrams or twelve hundred milligrams on a day. I didn't take as much or didn't have as much up to I mean, there are days, many days, a lot of days, most days were more than that, and many days would be you know, twenty more than two thousand milligrams a day.

29:46 How many pills is that? It depends on the strength. Well, let's say that you just mentioned if I took thirty, If I had thirty milligram pills, you figure one hundred pills would be three thousand milligrams. One hundred, So you're taking sixty a day or something like that. And there were days where I took more than that, there were days I took less than that. And how would you take them during the course of the day. I mean, how many are you taking at one time? How frequent in this time period? And let's say January to June.

30:28 You know, there's a point in time and I'm not sure when it was. I think it was well before that where And you have to understand this, this is something that I didn't I can still remember the first time I ever took an oxy contradoc can. I ask you to answer my question and I'll let you explain all you want. And my question was how many were you taking a day during this time from January to June? Answer that first place, and if you want to explain, I'm happy. To let you do. So I'm not positive. And here's why. It's because over the years, like as I was saying, the first oxy contin one, OxyContin made me literally made me sick. And that was when I was transitioning from hydro codone to oxycodone.

31:14 And it made me sick because there's a really, really really strong one and so you know, one OxyContin pill was like ten hydro codone pills. So but anyway, as I took more and more and over the years, it just you know, you build up a tolerance to pain pills, and so what might give me this energy? The reason, one of the reasons I became so addicted is you know some people talk about pain pills and how they make them lethargic and you know where they can't do anything and they feel opiates gave me energy.

31:54 I mean, I. It whatever I was doing and made it more interesting. You know, it made me want to do it longer, uh, you know, to go on to drive. It made driving. It's just it just at the beginning, it made everything better. But I took so much just to keep it got to a point where I was taking so much just to not backslide or go into withdraws or have all those symptoms. And so. It got to the point where I was taking the amounts that I came to be taken in the time period you're talking about January to June. So it evolved over time. It wasn't like it just started in mister Waters.

32:45 Can you just give me one one example of the day during that time period? Sure? So, I mean, just did you take start at eight o'clock in the morning or or whatever time you got up and take one and then won every thirty minutes. I mean, I were giving you a chance to explain depend It. Would totally depend on any numerous circumstances. So starting a day, one of the main things that this would depend on was how late the day before I had taken pills and how many I had taken, and did I take them during the night, did I wake up during the night and take them? So you know, let's just say that it had been a while since I took any and I slept and I woke up, all right, then I would immediately immediately, first thing, take pills because if it's been a while, A lot of times, if you slept and hadn't taken pills, you'd wake up and you could tell the beginnings of those I'm not going to say they were really withdraws, but that agitation that you feel when you don't take it, and you could tell it, so you had to take it right away, and so I would start off first thing I would do with take pills.

34:03 And that's how strong the withdrawals are for apio. It's correct that you feel that agitation until you can take another pill. Yes, I mean, but I mean that's just agitations to tip of the iceberg when it comes to withdraws, opiate withdraws. I think you said in your Must play for the Jury and the telephone conversation with special Agent Kelly that and you talked about with draws just how strong. They are, how you're willing to do anything to make them stop. Correct. I think what I said is almost anything. Almost anything. We'll describe that please.

34:45 I mean you're sick, yeah, I mean you're physically you know, you are physically sick. You it's like having the flu, when you ache and you join, it's hurt, you don't want to get up, you can't get up, and that's after a while. It starts with what you're talking about, agitation. And you know, Fidget, everybody talks about how fidgety. I was, But it starts. With with that, and then it goes to you know, you just you might be sitting here and just all of a sudden, sweats running down your face, all over your body. I mean you like you ran a marathon.

35:35 I mean you literally sweat that much. The next thing that comes on after about I don't know twelve hours is I call it jumpy legs, but I mean you literally, I mean you, there's no way that you could sit right here in this chair. I mean you couldn't. You couldn't remain sitting. I mean you would have to get up and move around, and I mean it's like your legs don't want to work. And that lasts for about twenty anywhere from eighteen to twenty four hours. During during that period, the uh, you know, the intestinal issues come in and I mean you literally you can't control yourself.

36:27 You have. Diarrhea, like you have food poisoning, you throw up. I mean you physically physically sick. How many times did you try to selft de talks. Mister Waters Dozens dozens, if not hundreds. You know, there's so many I can't tell you. And those those symptoms you just described are extremely powerful and made it very difficult to do that. Is that correct?

37:08 Made it difficult to to try to self detis Oh, it's it's extremely hard. You mentioned yesterday that you were paranoid. How long had that. Been going on? Well, no, I didn't say that I was paranoid. What I said was as the addiction evolved, there would be situations where you would have these paranoid thoughts. And when those first start. I can't tell you when they first started, but I. Mean how long before June or twenty twenty one alone? Alone? No? No, no, no, no, it was you know, it was as my addiction got worse. I mean it was a significant period of but you know, we have these faranoid thoughts.

38:05 I usually a matter of seconds. I mean it was something again my whole life. You wouldn't see me where I didn't have pills on me, and that's where I kept them. I kept them on me because I was scared to put them somewhere for fear somebody would find them. So I kept them on me. So if you saw me, I had pills on me. I had a pocket full of pills on June to eighth. On June eighth, when I was sitting in in David Owen's patrol car. So I always had them on me and I might turn I might be going to edistonwe and I turned on Hampton Street right out here, and a police car pulls out. Boom, have paranoid thoughts, you know it just but I could always say, I'm not doing You're not doing anything wrong.

39:14 He's not following you, and I can get past it in a matter of seconds. Did anybody in your family ever see you. Having these severe withdrawals? Absolutely? And Max, Paul, Paul, Bus, my dad, Randy, John Marvin, And just to be clear, Randy and John Marvin never saw me having withdrawals before September.

40:01 They show me, and I think you can clarify that. Prior to Jane twenty twenty one, who in your family saw you having these severe withdrawals? Bus, Paul, Paul, Maggie, my dad. Do you. Remember in calling remember calling Paul a little detective. I don't know that I ever called him a little detective, but I think Maggie did. I may have. I mean, I Paul was very intuitive, so I heard Mary. I heard I heard Mary him call him a little detective.

40:47 I know Maggie used to call him that. Did that have anything to do with the pills? Well, yeah, yeah, it had something to do with it. But I mean Paul was always that way, but that that what led him to be called a little detective. Certainly there were times when when Paul found pills. Inquitting just a month before the murders, Is that correct? No, sir? All right, you recalled six five twenty three. That was enter int evidants, which is a tax from Paul to you, I do, which is said that Maggie found pills in your back, right, tell me about what.

41:37 Happened after that. You asked me about Paul finding them, but it was Maggie that found. Him, fair enough, So it was Maggie that found him, Yes, sir, okay, but Paul is the one to reach out to you, correct. On that occasion, yes, sir. And what was the discussion after that? I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was about that I'd had an eye surgery the I don't know what day it was, but days before that, the day Maggie found that, Maggie drove me to the doctor for me to have my cataract removed whatever late whatever they call that surgery I can't remember. I had a cataract taken out an outpatient. You go in for a couple hours and you come out. And it was during COVID and so Maggie wasn't allowed to come into the doctor's office, and so she sat in the car and I had left pills in a computer bag and sitting out there board guesse. She started looking at my computer and found them in the computer bag. So she found those pills.

42:54 All right, And so she obviously told Paul, and Paul texted you correct about finding those pills. That's correct. And May one, that's correct. And you've heard your sister in law Mary and testify that Maggie called him the little detective about the pills. You heard that testimony in the courtroom. I did hear that, all right. So did they start to watch you like a hawk and get on you about your pill usage during the month of May. No, they did not know, mister Waters, this battle that I had with addiction, it had been going on for years, years, and so they had been watching me like a hawk for years before May. May was just one occurrence where I let them down.

43:52 Again. They have been watching you like a hawk for years. Is that correct. About my pill addiction. Yes, sir, that is correct. This Simon May. That wasn't the only time that Paul found pills. Where Maggie found. Pills, was up correct? Now, there were a number of times where Mag's found pills, Paul, Paul found pills, Bus found pills. I mean, it was ongoing. It was just an ongoing battle for me.

44:34 And after they found those pills in May, that being Maggie and Paul, were they trying to get you to soft detox? No, sir, not at that point in time. They just let it go. No, they didn't let it go. But at that point in time, Paul, Paul and I had already had a discussion based on I can't remember exactly when it was, but there'd been a previous occasion a good while back where there had been a previous occasion where either Maggie or Paul had found pills, and Paul had come to me and asked me, and I told him, you know, I was back on the pills. We had had a long talk. As I said, I don't remember exactly when it was. Before that, Paul and I had a long talk and.

45:39 We'd agreed. I had agreed and I detoxed so many times I'd been to detox. I detoxed at home with Maggie's help, detox at home with doctor's help, detoxed on my own, tried to and it just it just detail and just didn't work. It just you couldn't. You could detox, but you couldn't. No, no, you, I couldn't. I couldn't stay off of them.

46:19 And so. I promised Paul, Yeah, that as soon as this, as soon as we finished with his criminal case, that I would go to rehab. And and on this particular occasion, Paul knew that his worried about me so much with pills that on this particular occasion, I think that Paul Paul convinced Maggie that I got those pills in anticipation of the eye surgery, but that I never took them so that she would not worry that I was.

47:38 Once again, now you're claiming that about the time in May that Paul talked to Maggie and the semester of that, or you're talking about a different time. I'm not claiming that, mister Waters. That's a fact. This is what happened. We're hearing that now, correct, hearing what now what you just said, Well, you just asked me this, mister Waters. You keep making issue about the first time you hearing these things. When I got arrested and I went to jail, we began reaching out to you to talk to you about all of these things, to try to tell you everything that I had done, to give you all these details to help y'all go through these financial things. And up until the time that y'all charged me with murdering my wife and child, you would never give Jim Griffin a response to iron imitations to sit down and meet with you.

48:32 So you're telling me I never responded to Jim Griffin? Is that what you're saying here today? I'm telling you. Are you saying that you ever before yesterday reached out to anyone through yourself or through your attorneys and reached out anyone in law enforcement or the prosecution and told them the story about the kennels? Are you telling me that I'm what I'm telling you? First? Please, sir, answer my roquestion. First, did you ever reach out to anyone in law enforcement or the prosecution and tell that story that you told us jury yesterday about the kennels? Before yesterday, did I ever reach out to law enforcement to say I want to tell you about the Kennel's. No, sir, I did not. What happened with the Fifth amendmic line word this questioning about him volunteering information on these charges violates his Fifth Amendment rights, and we strongly object anymore.

49:23 We have to make a motion. Objections overrule. What I did was So that's my question. First, said Greg, he did not bring it. He was talking about financial staff. Mister good sir, yes or no question? Before yesterday? Did you ever bring up what you told the story about that kennels to anybody in the prosecution or anybody in law enforcem. No. I didn't have the opportunity to, mister Waters, because you would not respond to my invitations to reach out and tell you about all the things that I'd done wrong and to talk about bringing this to a head, to talk about bringing this se clution. I understand how many people I hurt. I understand how angry my partners are and how hurt they are, and I understand how hurt these people that I stole money from are. I understand how hurt they are. And one of the things that I believe is getting past this may help them get some closure. And so since at least January, I've been trying to sit down with y'all to talk to y'all and never ever got a response to the multiple requests. Requests, yes, sir,

51:01 multiple requests I would ask about this. Let's yes, sir, sir. Did Mark Ball ever hear your story to the jury about the kennels until yesterday? Their buddy and law partner, Mark Ball. I haven't spoken to Mark Ball since I went to. Rehab, and these were the same law partners that you were listening to the night of Is that what you testified to this jury earlier? You testified to that earlier? Did you know? I don't understand your questions. Didn't you testify earlier that you were listening to your law partners on the. Night of the incident? Was I listening to them? Yeah, you testified to that simple question, sir.

51:44 I'm sure I was. When are you talking about? On June eighth, in the early morning hours, you testified to this jury that you were listening to them, But you never told them the Kindel's story either, and they heard it for the first time yesterday as well. Isn't that correct? Yes, that's the first time they heard it at fig. That Ronnie Crosby ever heard that would have been yesterday. If he was listening, that would have been the first time he heard. Johnny Parker ever heard that was yesterday. Yes first time Danny Henderson. Who was representing you in the boat case, ever heard that was yesterday. Yes, yesterday is the first time that I have said that openly. But that's not what you were asking me, mister Waters. But you can go ahead.

52:30 First time your brother Randy heard that was yesterday. If he was listening. And mister Waters, just to be clear, I was begging for a meeting with y'all to try to bring this to a clothes to talk to y'all about everything up until the time that y'all charged me with hurting Maggie and Paul. Now, after that point in time, I stopped obviously listening that you. Were begging for a meeting and information and you but you had met the information and was never conveyed that you wanted to change your story. After multiple interviews with law enforcements about what happened that night, including the most important fact of all, which is when the last time you supposedly saw your wife and son alive.

53:15 Was I don't know exactly what was conveyed or not because to you, because I wasn't part of All I know is what I was trying to do was to sit down. I understood to bring all this to a close, that y'all would want me to sit down and go through all of these financial things, all of these things that i'd done wrong, and to try to bring that to a close. I was repeatedly trying to sit down with y'all. The reality is, mister Murdock, is the reason why no one's ever heard that before is because you had to sit in this courtroom and hear your family and your friends, one after the other come in and testify that you were on that Kenel video. So you, like you've done so many times over the course of your life, had to back up and make a new story that kind of fit with the facts that can't be denied.

54:07 Isn't that true, sir? No, sir, that's not true. Okay, You've done that over and over again over the years with all of this that we've been talking about, haven't you. I've done what over and over again. The second that you're confronted with facts that you can't deny, you immediately come up with a new lie. Isn't that correct, mister Waters. We've established I have lied many times, But I can't sit here and tell you that what are you talking about facts that I can't deny that I would disagree with that proposition that you're putting out that that was what I did all the time. But in doing that, I admit again that I have lied to people that trusted me.

54:54 So we can agree that the prosecution and law enforcement. And so many of your friends and family heard for the first time your story about the kennels yesterday, after all these weeks of testimony. Can we agree on that. The law enforcement, my partners, and my friends heard me say that for the first time. Yes, I agree with that. That your own lawyer was repeating your story that you were at home napping as late as November of twenty two on national television.

55:36 I don't I don't know that you don't know that. Now in jail, we don't get newspapers and the TV we have is. Limited, so so your own lawyers, at least as late as November twenty two, didn't know this story that you've told to this jury. After five weeks of your family and friends coming in and saying, yeah, that'say him on that video. I gave your honor of Alex's attorney client privilege communication totally improper. This certain response. He has brought up his communications with counsel, and now that is fair game. You're on this communications through council are alleged communications with the prosecution.

56:16 He didn't. There's no attorney client privilege to national television interviews. The objections overruled. Are you waiting for me to answer, mister Waters or did I answer? I think the points made all right. You said you were unaware of that national television interview. Though what you say. Unaware of what national television interview. The one where your lawyer repeated that story is late as November of twenty twenty two. Your story that you were actually homeless sleep at the house. The only the only national TV ad that I'm aware of is not ad program is one that mister Griffin was involved in. Was a are you referring to like a dateline something? Okay? HBO? All right, like, so yeah, I am aware of that, And what I believe the case to be is that I believe that when that was in its works, that mister Griffin made those statements sometime substantially before November of twenty two, as early as around the very beginning of twenty twenty one.

57:37 Let's talk. At least what I understand to be the case. Let's talk some more about your test some money from yesterday, and you're telling this jury even I'm something that's clear as skinnel video, that your story doesn't change when you have to make them fit the facts that no longer can be tonight. Know what you're telling this jury. I don't understand that question. Say that again. I said, you're telling this jury that you don't change your story to make the facts fit evidence. You can no longer deny what's going on in this courtland. I'm not telling the jury anything about that. All right, all right, let's move on. Let's talk some more about that issue. Let's talk about the confrontation on June the seventh, the Genie secondary which you told was no big deal.

58:36 Isn't that what you test five words to that effect. I think what I testify to is that to me, it certainly didn't seem like a confrontation. Gennie came to me and was almost apologetic. And this is what I believe, mister Waters, is I believe that what Jennie Seconder and my partners have had to go through through since September has been hard. I know they I mean, I could see it. I could see the hurt that I caused them.

59:17 And I know that they're betrayed, and I know that they're angry, and I know that they're hurt. And I want to make clear to this that while I disagree with what Gennie said as to it being a confrontation, because I don't believe that it was. I don't think that she was lying. I think that she feels it. I think that, you know, she believes that that's the case after all this time that she's had to deal with this. But on June the seventh, when she came to me, she was almost apologetic. She you heard her say that she said that she wouldn't be doing her job if she didn't do this, And it was made clear to me that someone had said this that I had to make sure that income came through the firm, that I couldn't structure money. In other words, I had the impression that there was concern that maybe, like Mark Ball and Ronnie Crosby said that maybe I was hiding hiding fees because of the civil boat case. But that conversation is so quick, mister Waters that you keep using the term confrontation. I didn't take it as a confrontation.

1:00:37 And you're telling this jury you're not making that issue fit, make your story fit with those facts by saying it wasn't a big deal. And Jeanie, she's hurt, so she's ever reacting that. No, that's not I'm standing testify. What I'm saying is exactly what I just testified to that to me on that day, that was not a conference titation. It ended almost as quickly as it began, and I didn't think about it again for a period of time until after everything happened. You testified earlier. You get paranoid if a police officer turns out behind you, But you're not getting paranoid when Genie comes in here and says, I need an answer about these fees.

1:01:25 Nah, because no, things like that wouldn't cause the paranoid thought. And in the paranoid thinking, it was always related to pills. It was always okay. That reaction that somebody just gave. Me was always related to pills. Do they know something did something somebody said it was I mean the times, That's that's what when I when I had to deal with paranoid thinking that. You know, if if a judge confronted me in the courtroom about it piece of evidence, or if Genie asked me about that, those are not things that gave me paranoid thinking.

1:02:12 Okay, And you testified the same thing about the boat hearing on June tenth. Not worried about it, no big deal? Correct. No, I didn't say that it was no big deal, but I said that my main concern about those motions coming up on June to tenth dealt more with the venue motion than they did with the motion to compel. I believe is what I said, you saw on this jury that you didn't testify yesterday that you weren't concerned about it. I wasn't overly concerned about it, and I'm sure I had some level of concern because the venue motion was it was a it was a big issue in the case.

1:03:03 Well, when you concern enough about it to blow up on Mark Tinsley at the trial orias conference and say what are you doing? Both No, absolutely, unequivocally never happened. If the Pharis fee issue. Comes to light on June the seven, You're not gonna be able to borrow money from Johnny Parker anymore, are you? If the Pharis fee hypothetically speaking, if the Pharis fee came to light on June to seventh, well, here any point in time, if the Feris fee came to light, Johnny Parker would not loan me money. If Johnny knew that I had taken fees, I would not have been able to borrow money from Johnny Parker.

1:03:49 So at this point, Waters has finally worked up to the events leading up to June seventh, as well as the final moments when Maggie and Paul and the aftermath of the murders. And it's very telling what Murdall has to say about all of this. Here's that club you. Got a chance for do that to start up? Yes, sir, all right? And do you recognize what those are? Generally? I do? And what are they text between Maggie and h and what day did they take place? Junius sixth during the sex.

1:04:29 Twenty twenty one? Is that correct? That's correct, yes, sir, all right. This time the state would offer states five seventy two and outs objection, s. Admit without objection. All right, tell the jury where were you when these sects were taking place? I was in the hotel. And where what city were you? Then? Columbia, South Carolina. I'm not exactly sure where they were when they first started, but they would have been somewhere between the hotel, a restaurant in the ball field. All right. But when you send this text on. June sixth, eleven forty one, you say, y'all in seat already? Correct?

1:05:13 Yes, that's what I did say, all right, and they say yes. Maggie says yes, we like these seats. Is that correct? So that's correct. I didn't notice that. So at that point in time, they are in the. Ballpark, all right. And then you respond better than last night they extended check out to one gonna come then? Is that correct? That's what that text says, yes, sir? All right, so you're back of the room. Is that right? Yes, sir. Later on you text after she asked you to bring a charger and says Muggy, You text, I'm dreading it. See you in a little bit.

1:05:54 Is that correct? That's what I said? Yes, sir? She responds don't come, but then asks about the charger and says it's hot. Is that correct? Yes? I assume you were reading it exactly, so yes, sir. She eventually responds, not crowded, but not the place of that. Come if you don't feel well, very hot, muggy. We are inside, sitting at the bar, very nice indoors. Is that correct? That's what it says, yes, sir, And then you respond out, U by accident, they are making me leave, so I'll see y'all on the few.

1:06:37 Is that correct? That's correct? And who was making you leave? Where it was past checkout time at the hotel. After you've gotten an extended check out? Correct? It appears so. And the reality is is that you were in that hotel. Suffering from withdrawls when that's going on. Is that correct? I was beginning to yes, sir. And the reality is is that your wife and your son were on you at that time period because they had found. Pills just a few weeks prior.

1:07:18 No, sir, that's not correct. Let's talk about June seventh. Okay, you got up that morning or what time do you think you got up and left that day? After having the benefit of looking at all these records. I don't know what time I got up and looking at the records, obviously I've been up for a while, but it fears I left shortly afternoon. Okay, and you went to work? I did, yes, sir, And. What were you working on at work?

1:08:00 I was working on this Dominion energy case was primarily what I was working on. That we had motions coming up later in that week. As I said earlier, it's I believed at the time that it was the biggest case that I'd ever been involved in, and there were motions coming up in that I was bearing. Danny had been Danny Henderson, my partner that was helping me with this civil case from the boat wreck, had been on me about getting a financial statement, and I finished doing that so that it could be given to Danny. It's primary is what I remember doing. Obviously I talked to Genie.

1:08:57 But okay, and what times you leave? And I'm sure I did some other routine office things, but I can't tell you. What they are, all right, what times you leave? It appears that I left around a little after six from the records. I thought i'd left earlier than that, But I mean, the records were seemed to be pretty clear. And you were, in fact, I think you said in both many of your interviews that you were working on the boatcase that day as well your financial declaration. Yes, I prepared the financial declaration. I didn't do any work in this civil case, so my work in that is what I did. I prepared the financial statement, which took me a little bit of time to get the details on that, but I mean that was the work I did own in preparation for the emotions coming up.

1:10:02 And what time did you get home? And looking at the records, it looks like I got home a little before seven, six forty five, I think six forty something. Then you and Paul rode the property and you've told law enforcement you shot are twenty two. That's correct. You told law enforcement that you never saw any blackout. Did I never see a blackout. At that point in time when you and Paul were riding the property. No, I do not see a blackout.

1:10:45 Did you tell law enforcement that you and Paul were around going around looking for hogs? If I said that, and if I told them that, you know, you don't look for hogs in the daytime, all right? That just the hogs are deep in the swamp in the daytime. So I can tell you that Paul and I were not riding around looking for hogs. But what we were doing is we were going from food plot to food plot, and we were looking for hogs signs. All right. What a hog will do is come out and root and they tear up food plots, they tear up, they tear up everything, and so that was one of the things we were doing. But we were not hog honting. We were not looking for hogs.

1:11:34 We did not have the three hundred blackout with us. Paul didn't have the gun that he the black out, but he favored with him while y'all rode the property. The gun that's in here, any wifer, There was no three hundred blackout with me and Paul. All y'all had was a twenty two. And that was a twenty two pistol. But we didn't have that with us at that time riding the property. Right, and you testified you've seen the snapchat video of you on the tree. Is that right? I have seen that, and you don't have to speak the time of that video, DDE.

1:12:18 I don't even know what time that was taken. But whatever the gentleman came and testified to I don't dispute that, all right? And what time? Well, let me ask you this, When did you go back to the house. Were you with Paul or were you by yourself? I was by myself when I went back to the house. I went back to the house basically when Maggie got there. When Maggie got there, all right? And where had Paul gone prior to that? Was he back of the house already or he came after you? Paul was at the shot when I went back to the house, all.

1:12:58 Right, So you beat him to the house. Of what you're saying, is that right? I beat him to the house. You were at the house prior to him getting there? Yes, all right? And you say Maggie was there at the same time or there before you or there after you. That's what I'm not absolutely certain about. I believe that Maggie came through the kennel entrance, and going back and looking at these records and these times, I believe she came through the kennel entrance while Paup, Paul and I were at shop. But either way, I got to the house very shortly after Maggie got there, and I believe that she came through, and I believe that I went right behind her. And when did you take the shower that you've been talking about this, Joe.

1:13:44 I believe when I first went in the house. I mean, I would have talked to Maggie for a second, but i'd seen her that morning, so I would. Left your clothes on the floor. I'm not sure it makes sense to me, giving what blunc Is said, but I couldn't tell you one way or the other. Now, what time was out you think, and looking at the records, I think that was a little after eight. And you're saying Maggie was already there at that point. When I got to the house. Yeah, And what did you do after that?

1:14:27 I came back out tat out on the couch to eat dinner. What bout what time was that? A few minutes later? And me didn't take me along the shower. And you say Paul was already eating at that point he was You say he left first. What I said is he got up and he finished eating and he left our immediate vicinity. Now, I don't believe he left at that point, given what I've looked at time records, and I believe that he was around the house for a little bit longer. And just to be clear again, but I didn't see him.

1:15:16 All of this detail was. People were hearing for the first time yesterday, like we talked about before. Correct say that again, all of this detail that we're going through right now is not anything that you related before. We're all hearing this for the first time yesterday. Jackson, You're honor fifth moment privilege. Jackson's overrules. So yes, I did not tell law enforcement. Actually I don't think law enforcement asked me what I did when we first went to the house, but I clearly lied to law enforcement about what I said yesterday. Okay, And all of this the last time you saw your supposedly saw your wife and child, all of this detail, you, as a lawyer and a prosecutor, didn't think that was important to.

1:16:08 Offer on your own. Well, I think it's important you told this jury how cooperative you you've been and how much information you want to provide. But you left out the most important parts, didn't you. I left out I left out that. I sure did. You don't consider that one of the most important parts. I think it's important, all right, tell me about what happens next, tell me about how Maggie and Paul end up out down at the kennels. I'm still not absolutely certain exactly how they ended up at the kennel, but in looking at the time frames and looking at the GPS points, I think I pretty well no, because I wasn't sure if Maggie had walked to the kennel's or ridden to the kennels, and I wasn't exactly sure how Papaul got there. But I'm all but certain that Maggie and Paul went to the kennel together.

1:17:11 All right? And what was the discussion? You said that they were going down there, but you didn't want to go, Is that right, Maggie? What I said is, Maggie asked me to go to the kennel's with her, and I wasn't gonna go. I said, I'm not gonna go. And how long after she left did you supposed to go down there? It was very quickly. And what did you tell this jury and all these new facts as to the reason you. Changed your mind? Why'd you change your mind? I just had a shower. When you go to the kennel, you always end up shot. Dogs are running around. You always gonna end up doing more work. All right, it's hot, I'd already had a shower. I didn't want to go to kennel.

1:18:02 I understand that, So why's change your mind? Because Maggie wanted me to? So you thought about it for a few minutes and then decided to go down there. I don't think I sat and contemplated, am I gonna go? Am I gonna go? I think that, like many things Maggie wanted me to do, if I didn't do it at first, I ended up doing it. And you took the golf cart down to the kennel's. That's correct. How long did that taken? Drive from the house down to the kennels in a golf cart? You know? And looking at the records from own star and all of that, it seems to take about a minute in the golf cart. Nope, in the in the suburban, so I would think it's probably in looking at those speeds over what twenty twenty four miles an hour, I would think it takes double that. I think it takes a couple of minutes.

1:18:50 All right, So you'll can see the least a couple of minutes to drive down there. I think, yes, in a golf cart. That's correct. When the kennel video was going on, Had you arrived before that? I believe that I had. Okay, how long do you think you had been there before that was going on? Not long because when I got there, and looking at the kennel video, you can see Paul Paul standing in the kennel. When I got there, Paul Paul wasn't standing in the kennel.

1:19:34 It wasn't in the kettle anymore. Well, he wasn't in the kennel like he is in the video, right he's I mean, he's probably and I don't know exactly, but I know he wasn't in the kennel. He was like in the driveway. He was fooling with cash. He was in the driveway, but like close to the kennel, but not in the kennel like he is in the video. So the video happened after that, according to you, video happened after I got after you first saw Paul. You're saying he wasn't in the kennel. When did the video happen? I believed that to be the case. Okay, after you had arrived, is that correct? Yes? And very shortly after I arrived.

1:20:17 But after I arrived, all right, And did you tell Maggie at that time that you were going to go to Almetam? I did not. Did y'all discuss it at all? According to you, to. These new factors test to find, I don't believe. So. Did you have any conversation with her? Oh? Yeah, Had you had a conversation Did you have a conversation with Paul about the dogs, about Cash's tail prior to going down there? Prior to going down there? I don't. Did I have a conversation with Paul about. Talked to him about Cash and some problem with this tale prying to going down there?

1:21:00 Did you have any knowledge of that tire to. Going down I'm not sure. As I sit here today, I don't recall that. But I don't. I don't, I don't think so. When you first arrived in the golf cart, where. Did you pull up to? I pulled up right where Maggie was, which is where she was standing on the spot where she could see in between the chicken coop and the storage room of the kennels where the dogs were back up in those planet pines behind the kennels to the left of the chicken coop. And what did you do after that?

1:21:44 I went back to the house. No, I mean, did you you pulled up? You get out of the the uh, the golf cart? When I know when I pulled up, I stayed on the golf cart. And stayed on the golf cart. How long did you stay on the golf cart? However long I was down there? Then? No, I got off to take the chicken from Bubba? How long were you down there before you took the chicken off? Very short time? Like what. A couple of minutes? And what were you doing during the couple of minutes before you got over there to deal with Bubba? Talking to match? All right? And what did y'all talk about? I don't know. You don't remember, no, sir.

1:22:24 I do know that Maggie was very concerned about Paupaul, and. You remember a lot of detail about all these new facts that you don't remember what you talked about. I don't remember the exact details of what we talked about. I believe that at that time we may have talked about Paupaul, But I'm not certain. Were you withdrawing at this time at this time, No, sir, you won't withdrawing at all.

1:23:07 No, I would only withdraw when I didn't have pills. Then you're saying you had pills. Yes, down there for a couple of minutes, I think you said, now before you get off the golf cart. About yes, sir? All right, and. Where do you go at that point? I take the chicken from Bubba? All right, so you get up. Well, I mean Bubba's you know, Bubba's come out there with this chicken. I mean he's showing us, hey, I caught this chicken. And I take the chicken from Bubba cart.

1:23:49 He came up by the golf cart, and he came up to Maggie and I which I was on the golf cart. She's by the golf cart. I mean, he's not coming to the golf cart, but he's coming to us. Is this during to come up to the y or is this after the cant video? Well? No, you hear Maggie say he's got a chicken. That's what she's talking about. Is Bubba caught a chicken? All right? All right? So is the cant video still going on? Before you go get the chicken? I mean you've heard it correct, you've heard in this courtroom. I don't know exactly I don't know exactly, but in close timing to Bubba coming out of those woods with the chicken, I got up and took the chicken from him.

1:24:29 Okay, let me ask you this, where the dogs. Barking and carrying on or going out into the woods or acting like they sent somebody was around that they didn't know? Were the dogs acting like there was somebody around it they didn't know? Yeah, like dogs do. No, they weren't. There was nobody there was around that the dogs didn't know. Dogs didn't didn't to your indication sense anything out of the ordinary. They were just chasing. After the beginning, there was nobody felts around. Good for them. Just since.

1:25:11 You've heard the kennel video, would you agree with me that it lasts for about fifty seconds? I agree with that, so it would have ended around eight forty five and forty five seconds. Would you agree with that? I do agree with that. Did you have the chicken out of Bubba's mouth at the end of the kennel video or did it take longer than that? You know, I can't remember exactly when in the video he came up up with the chicken, but I would have had to. I would have had a chicken out of his mouth within ten fifteen seconds of Maggie saying, he's got a chicken?

1:25:53 All right? And so then what did you do? I put the chicken up? All right? How long did that take? Did you get out of the golf cart to do that? I did, all right? And you had to go walk to where it was? Well? Yeah, I mean it a few feet, but I did that, yes. All right? So how long did that tag worth? We're at eight forty six? Now, how long did that take? The seconds? The seconds? All right? And what did you do after that? Got back on the golf cart? And what did you do after that? I left? You left? Now, I'm going with golf cart and left. Well, that's what I was getting ready to say. Did I get on the golf cart and leave that second? Probably not? But did I get on the golf cart and leave very quickly after that? I did?

1:26:38 Okay, Yeah, I think you're testified. Yesterday I got out of there. I did. Why'd you get out of there so quick, mister Murdock? Because it was chaotic, it was hot. Then I was getting ready to do exactly what I didn't want to do. You're getting ready to do what you didn't want to do. That's correct. Yeah, I was getting ready to wet. I was getting ready to work. I went back to the air conditioner. So did you say goodbye? According to your new story, did I say goodbye? Yeah? Did you talk to them at all? Or did you just get the chicken? Put it on there, jump on there. And take off. I wouldn't have just gone off. I mean I would have said I'm leaving, okay. Did I say goodbye bye and again go ahead? I mean there would have been some you know, there would have been some exchange. I'm not staying here.

1:27:32 Well what was that exchange? I mean you have you've had such a photographic memory about these new stories? What what? What? What happened here? It's not I can't tell you the exact words, And you. Don't remember. Your conversation after you put that chicken up. Did y'all talk about the chicken? No, I don't think we did. Did you talk with Paul about cash as sale. After the chicken? Yeah? No, I know I didn't do that. Did you tell Maggie I'm going to go check on. Him at that point? No, don't. I don't tell Maggie's hide out here. If they gonna go back. I certainly would have said something to that effect, all right.

1:28:13 So, unlike everything else for the new story, you just can't recall what that would have been. Well, you know, I mean you're making that categorization. I think there's other things about that that I can't remember. But if the question is, can I remember exactly what words I used when I gave Maggie some salutation when I'm leaving, I can't tell you what those were, all right, But it would have been something to the effect of I'm leaving. All right, okay, but you would con see that there was at least some conversation that you would have just put the chicken on there and jump ran back to the golf cart and taken. Off right out talking to Maggie. I would have never done that.

1:28:53 All right. So well, let's uh, you want to say, a minute? Does that sound about right? A minute for what to have just whatever interaction it took for you to then, according to your new story, drive. Back to No, sir, it wouldn't have taken me a minute. It would have been it would have said, It would have been I'm leaving, I see you in a minute. Okay, So thirty seconds. I don't think it would have taken thirty seconds. But I mean, I'm fine with you using whatever time you want to apply. What I don't think it's asking. About real life here and how people interact with one and another. Mister Murdoch, I mean, so what you're telling this jury I called your fuzzy on these kind of details, is that you jetted down the are he dealt with the chicken and jetted right back.

1:29:39 No, sir, no, sir, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't jet down there, and I didn't jet back. I got up after Maggie asked me to leave, after Maggie asked me to go with her, and I didn't. I got up, I went and got on a golf cart. I drove down there. I did what I did. I said I'm leaving, or something to those words, and I went back. All right, Well, if it's about eight forty six, If the Kennel video ends at eight forty five and forty five seconds and it's about eight forty six, we at least can see that maybe it was about a minute before you got on that golf cart and headed back, just reasonable real life.

1:30:20 Maybe, yeah, I mean, I don't think it was that long? But maybe sure? All right, so, but I don't think it was that long. I mean, exactly what I thought was gonna be going on at that kennel. Why I didn't want to go there to begin with, is exactly what was going on. Yeah, well I get that and I left. Are these also convenient facts in your new story that have to fit with the timeline now that that evidence has been thrown. In your face? No, sir, does that sound like. Real life to you? That you jet down there and jet back? Mister Murdoch, mister waters As, I just told you. I didn't get on my golf cart and jet down there. I didn't jet back. The reason why you have to about these details, mister waters Hagle.

1:31:03 Just answer before another question presented. I'm a smaller question. I'm a slower. Are you responding to the last question? Yes, sir, I'm responding to your question. And you're using words that I'm not using, and and I'm that's your categorization. I'm entitled to ask my questions. To you, sir, absolutely, and I'm gonna answer them. All I'm saying is I'm taking issue with the manner in which you're changing what I'm saying. And you disagree. This is a new story.

1:31:44 You disagree with that characterization. Yes, this this is the first time that this is being told openly. And you disagree to my characterization that you've got a photographic memory about the details that have to fit now that you know these facts, but you're fuzzy only other stuff that complicates that. You disagree with that. I do disagree with that. I think that I I think did I have a good memory about a lot of things on this? How about this? We've got the Kenel video ending at eight forty five forty five, So just to take care of the chicken, put it up. I was gonna say eight forty seven.

1:32:26 But somewhere around there, I think you said somewhere around there was that fair Just to do whatever you need to do and get on that car before you head back. The Kennel video ended at eight forty. Five, in forty five seconds, at eight forty six. It certainly could have been eight forty seven before I left out of there, I think it was sooner than that, but it could have been. That's sixty seconds in seventy five seconds correct after it ends. If it ends it eight forty five and forty five seconds a minute in fifteen seconds. You characterizes yesterday as I got out of there, right, that is exactly what I did. So if we're at eight forty seven, I think you said benefit giving you the benefit of doubt, it's two minutes to get.

1:33:12 Up back to the house, correct, proximately? All right? And when you got back to the house, where'd you park the golf cart? Same place I'd gotten it from, right where Mark Ball testified that it was all right? And what door did you go in? I would have gone in the front door. And if you left. Around eight forty seven. And it took about two minutes to get up to the house, what time did that make it, mister Murdock? If I left at eight forty seven, and if it took me two minutes, that would make it eight nine.

1:33:52 When you testified you went inside and the TV's are right? I did go intide and the TV was on? Okay, And you laid down? Is that right? I did? Right before? You said you had been napping for an hour or so. We're napping that entire time, and now you lay down on the couch, that's correct. All right? And maybe doze for a second, maybe according to your new story, how long did you dose? If I dozed? Extremely short time, extremely short time. Because you wouldn't agree with me that at nine o two you're up and moving according to the data.

1:34:34 I agree that according to that data, my phone's recording steps at whatever time it is nine o two something. How long did it take you if you're at the house at eight forty nine, how long before you went laid on the couch. I would have gone straight to the couch. Probably I may have gone about a sink, or you know, I may have gotten a spit cup, but it would have been basically straight to the couch. Straight to the couch, Yes, sir, And you're telling this jury that that's what happened. And we were back at the house at eight forty nine, and you lay down on the couch and does for a second, and then you're up with more steps in a shorter time period than you had done all day.

1:35:24 Well, I mean your number is eight forty nine. What I'm telling this jury is that I went down there, and when I took that chicken from Bubba, I would have said something to Mags. I got back on that golf cart and I drove back to my house. After getting back to my house, I went inside and in short order I went to the couch. That's what I'm telling this jury. Did you go anywhere else in the house, mister Waters, I. Can't tell you specifically about that. I don't think so, but I may have. Did you have that ten blackout in a twelve game shotgun on that golf cart when you drove down there.

1:36:09 No you didn't. No. Did you see them when you were down there? No? No. So we got you back around eight forty nine, and you're leaving at nine oh two, correct, And you didn't see any weapons down there. You just happened to be back there. You didn't hear anything at all. Did you hear anything at all, mister Murdot during that time period? No? I did not. You didn't. Didn't you tell law enforcement that you thought you heard them pull up? Then you tell law enforcement that I did think they had pulled up? All right? So that was that you did think that? Yes? All right? So now you're saying there was a car pulling up. No, you didn't testify to that yesterday, did you in your new version of events? No? I don't instruct mister. What I don't believe there was a car pulling up.

1:36:52 Okay, but that's what you told law enforcement, didn't. No, I told law enforcement that I thought they had pulled up. All right, But you're saying you didn't hear blackout shots supposedly, but you could hear that, correct. I didn't say I couldn't hear blackout shots. But I'm saying that I thought when I got up from taking a nap. If I took a nap, but when I got up from laying down, as I was getting ready to go to my mom's, there was a point in time where I thought Maggie and Paul had come back. You also told him that you thought you heard a wild cat and maybe it was a person or something like that as well.

1:37:38 No, that's not what I said. Why did you say that? I said, when I went outside, that there's a house cat, that's all what just gone wud And he hangs around, He goes from hanging around the shop, goes from hanging around the house at different times you might and there be times you don't see. And he had been around the house, and when I went outside, I believe that cat was over there. And you made a point of mentioning that law enforcement. I never thought it was a person, but. You made a point of mentioning back for law enforcement. Correct, in the course of discussing it. I did tell them that, but.

1:38:20 You never told them all. This new story that you've constructed in light of this trial, is I correct. I did not tell them that I went to the kennel. I lied about that. And at the same time, you also looked at this jury and tried to tell them that you had been cooperative in this investigation. Other than lying to them about going to the kennel, I was cooperative in every aspect of this investigation. Maybe the most important fact of all that you were at the murder scene with the victims just minutes before they died.

1:39:00 Right. I did not tell them that I went to the kennel quote, I did not tell them that I went to the kennel unquote that right, there is this whole fucking case for the state of South Carolina. Think about that. Why lie? The absolute worst thing you can do in that situation is a lie. So we'll continue with the testimony next week.

1:39:45 Still a ways to go in this one, and I want to thank all of you for listening. I want you to check out the Patreon if you have not done so. We do all kinds of stuff on there. Files. You got commercial free early release, this bonus episode. You get quarterly gifts if you are top tier patrons. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. I refer to those folks as my celebrities. That's exactly what they are. And I could not even bring you the podcast i'm bringing you today without all of those folks and the extra support that they give this show. So thank you very much, and until next time for exposed scandalous files of the Elite, I'm your host, Jim Chapman.

1:40:31 Much love,