Feb. 20, 2025

"Murdaugh" Episode Twenty One | "The Stand" Day 2

"Murdaugh" Episode Twenty One | "The Stand" Day 2

In this episode of “Murdaugh,” It is Day 2 of Alex Murdaugh taking the stand , where Prosecutor Creighton Waters uncovers inconsistencies, highlighting themes of truth, betrayal, and the impact of desperation for Alex.

#murdaugh #AlexMurdaugh...

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Season 1
In this episode of “Murdaugh,” It is Day 2 of Alex Murdaugh taking the stand , where Prosecutor Creighton Waters uncovers inconsistencies, highlighting themes of truth, betrayal, and the impact of desperation for Alex.

#murdaugh #AlexMurdaugh #exposed #podcast #trial #creightonwaters

Timestamps
25:30 Murdaugh Lies and Client Betrayal
41:20 The Addiction Revelation
46:51 Family Dynamics and Addiction
1:07:26 The Day of the Incident
1:16:32 Final Moments with Maggie and Paul

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Hey everyone, and welcome back to Exposed Scandalous Files of

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the Elite. I'm your host, Jim Chapman, and we are

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back with another Murdall series. This twenty first episode in

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that series. And the last time that we left you, creating,

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Waters was just eating Alec Murdall's lunch on that stand.

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But we're going to continue on with it, and we're

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going to start with this first clip where Waters continues

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to focus on Murdoll's stealing. Now, why so much focus

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on that? And I bring that up because several people

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who listen to this round one of questioning that we

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play last week they had that question and I had

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that question initially. But I want to go ahead and

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answer the question as to why Creighton Waters was focusing

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so hard on the money aspect of this case. And

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in my opinion, this was to prove motive, which is

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the most important aspect of this case. Remember, the burden

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to proof all rest on the prosecution, and they lacked

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any solid evidence that Mardall committed these murders. They had

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no murder weapon, they had no eye witnesses, no DNA

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that would point to Merdoll specifically as the killer. So

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everything they had in this case was circumstantial everything. And

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that's the very question they had to answer, what circumstances

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would cause Alex Mardall to kill his son and his wife?

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And the answer, the only.

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Answer is money or the pressure created by the lack

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of money. The lack of money caused Alex Murdall to

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do a lot of crazy shit. First he stole from

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his clients, Second, he stole from his firm. And third

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the prosecution is wanting to convince that jury that he

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killed his wife and his son because of the massive

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money issues that he was having, And honestly, it was

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the only motive they had. Waters had to convince this

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jury that it was enough to lead to Alex committing

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these murders. So in this first clip he kind of

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continues on that course and he takes Alex down what

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I would term as Alex's despicable road of deceit.

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Listen to this murder.

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Good morning, mister Waters.

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All right, let's see if we can move forward with

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this a little bit.

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See we can go back to some things we may

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be able to agree on.

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All right, you all right, first thing is is that

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the money you were stealing, in addition to your income.

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And the money you were borrowing was not just to

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pay for drugs.

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Would you agree with that?

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Sure? All right?

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And would you agree that you're stealing in addition to

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the money you were borrowing increased over the years as

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we moved towards June of twenty twenty one?

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Repeat that, please, says.

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Would you agree that you're stealing increased over the years

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as we move towards June of twenty twenty one?

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Yes, sir, right?

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And would you admit that you're stealing increased in particular

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after the boat wreck?

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I know, sir, I don't agree with that.

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You don't agree with that.

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I think I continued to do it, But I don't

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as I sit here today, I don't think I took

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more money that I should not have taken after the

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boat wreck than I did before the boat wreck. Okay,

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but again, those documents speak for themselves, mister Waters, and

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if that's the case, then that's the case. But as

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we sit here, I think that I probably wrongly took

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from clients and people that trusted me more as much

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money before that boat wreck as after.

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Right, And I'm not trying.

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I'm just trying to get through this. So we don't

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get bogged down like we did yesterday, all right, I understand,

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all right, So you wouldn't agree with me that in

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twenty nineteen alone you stole about three point seven million dollars.

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No, I think that's correct, all right?

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And you would you agree with me the other that

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that figure in twenty nineteen was generally higher than any

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other year that you've been stealing since twenty eleven.

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In any year. Sure, i'd agree with that. I thought

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you were talking about overall the whole you know, the

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whole cycle. But yeah, I would agree that in twenty

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nineteen I stole more money than any other year.

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Would you agree with me that from twenty fifteen on,

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your legitimate income, while still very strong, was diminishing as

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a general matter.

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Well, I think whatever my income is speaks for itself.

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But as a general rule, a planet's Laurie doing what

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we do. Income ebbs and flows. Some you have some

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really good years, you have some really lean years, and no,

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I think I had some. I think I had some

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good years. Maybe not the you know, four and five

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million dollar years, but I think I had some two

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and three million dollar years in there. And and my

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case load was such that you know, I had one

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of the things I was working on that Monday was

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one of the biggest cases that I've ever.

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Been involved in, inbout the Dominu case, Right, yes, sir.

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And so you know I think it was cyclical. I

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think it, So I don't without looking at the record specifically,

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I don't necessarily agree with that.

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Okay, So you don't remember, then, no, I do remember.

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I don't think I agree with that. But again, those

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records will speak for themselves.

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Okay, all right, So would you agree with me that

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in twenty fourteen your reported income was over a million

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dollars Jackson?

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The objection's overrule.

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Reported income, like tax lines are reported. I assume you

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have a document that says that. And if you're reading

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that from a document, I don't dispute it.

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I mean, I'm happy to show it to you if

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you lateen.

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I trust you, mister Waters.

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So all right, I appreciate that. All right.

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Twenty fifteen, would you agree that your reported income was

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ever two million dollars?

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Again, I don't dispute that, right.

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Twenty sixteen reported income nine hundred thousand dollars, okay, twenty

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seventeen reported an income two hundred and eighteen thousand dollars

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okay to twenty eighteen reported income of seven hundred and

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forty nine thousand dollars roughly okay, and twenty nineteen reported

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income of six hundred and fifty five thousand dollars okay.

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And see that that I mean to me, that demonstrates

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exactly what I'm talking about, how it goes up in now.

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And would you agree with me that though during those

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periods of time where you were making that kind of money,

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you continue to steal. And I think you've already said

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that you're stealing increased as we moved through those years.

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As a general matter.

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Absolutely, I don't dispute, and I have never disputed since

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I was confronted on Labor Day weekend that I took

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money from my clients.

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We've gone through that well. But I'm asking you if

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you're if you're income.

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Offense your So the point is is I have never

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since been confronted that day my brother and my partner

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came to talk to me that I have stolen money

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that did not belong to me, that I misled people

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to do it, people that I cared about still care

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about a lot of them, that I love and still love,

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and I misled them to do it, and I was wrong.

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I have never disputed that from day one, and.

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We've been through that. All I'm trying to establish right

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now with you, mister Murdoch, is as we move towards

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June twenty twenty one, what your financial condition was like.

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Okay, I agree, you've testified to that multiple times.

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All right, so let me ask you this during this

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time that your income is what we just went through,

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and you've conceded that your stealing was increasing, were you

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also borrowing significant amount of money from Palmeta State Bank?

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Yes, I'd always borrow a significant amount of money from

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pal Meta State Bank or for the last more than

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the last de so yes, sir, I'd agree with that.

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As we moved to June of twenty twenty one, did

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you have a million dollar line of credit with a

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bank that was pretty much maxed out?

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Yes? Or no?

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And as we moved to June of twenty twenty one, so.

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In June of twenty one, sure, yes, all right?

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And did you also have a six hundred thousand dollars

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line of credit that was pretty much maxed out around

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that time?

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I did?

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And did you also over the years repeatedly borrow six

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figures from your law partners.

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Well, I borrowed money from a law partner.

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Which one Johnny park Johnny Parker, Okay, And that was

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a fairly common occurrence over the years.

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It happened multiple times.

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Would you agree with that.

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I agree that it happened multiple times, all right.

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And you would agree also that you would sometimes use

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some of the stolen money to pay that back.

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I won't dispute that. I don't know that that's the case.

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I know what I saw mister Bernie testify to in

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using that particular accounting method. You know, I see that,

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So I don't dispute that, all right.

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And would you agree that you also, when you needed money,

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occasionally borrow as much as five and six figures from

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your father, mister Randall, I did. And would you also

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agree that over the years, particularly as we moved to

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June of twenty twenty one, you would use stolen money

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to pay that back.

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I don't dispute that if that's what the records show.

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All right.

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And you just mentioned you're in the testimony of Carson

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Bernie and the banker and all that you would agree

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with me that as we moved to June of twenty

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twenty one, at least in liquid funds, you were running

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out of the money.

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In liquid funds? Is in money on hand or money

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that I.

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Could get, money that you could liquid funds. You're a lawyer,

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you know what liquid means.

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Well, I don't know what you mean by liquid, mister Waterson.

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So money you could readily access, assets that you could

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readily access to pay your ever increasing debts.

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No, sir, I don't agree with that.

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You don't agree with that.

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I do not agree with that, and I'll tell you why.

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All right?

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And so are we talking about June?

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I'm talking about as we moved to gin okay?

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But what time period are you talking about?

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Let's talk about January to Gine.

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Okay, January to Jine, January to June. You know, I

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could borrow money from my father. I could borrow money

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from Johnny Parker. I could go to the bank and

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borrow money. I had substantial equity in the Edistone house,

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as we've talked about.

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Which was in Maggie's name, correct.

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Well, it was in Maggie and my name, all right,

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So you know that definitely was in both of our names.

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Mozelle was in Maggie's name, the substantial equity in that

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that could have been barred against. So under the terms

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as you defined liquid assets just now money that I

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would have access to. I disagree with on that for

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those reasons that I just said.

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Can we at least agree that generally the way the

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compensation structure for a legitimate money that you earned in

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your law firm, the vast majority of your compensation does

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not come except in one lump sum in December.

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Can we agree to that, right, we get a salary,

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we would receive a salary. I believe our salary was

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one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars, and then the

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income that was earned would be paid in the form

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of a bonus at the year end.

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All right, And then would you agree with me that

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that is why you stole the Feris fees in March

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of twenty twenty one, because you were in desperate need

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of funds and you could not wait soil December to

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access those funds.

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I think there's probably a lot of reasons why I

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stole those funds, but I certainly would believe, or don't

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dispute did that's one of the reasons and what do.

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You agree with me that the seven hundred ninety two

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thousand dollars that you stole of those Ferris funds, that

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you exhausted those within about two months.

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I don't know the time period, but I know that

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they I know that I exhausted them.

240
00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:48.440
Now again, I'm trying to get through this quickly because

241
00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:51.600
there's a lot more to talk about, obviously, but we

242
00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:55.960
went through a number of questions yesterday about the various

243
00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:00.639
clients that you stole from. Correct you remember that.

244
00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:04.200
Let's cut the back and forth we had yesterday.

245
00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:04.840
Do you remember all that?

246
00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:05.440
Sure?

247
00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:05.720
I did?

248
00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:08.000
Okay, all right, And so I'm going to try to

249
00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:11.240
short change this, but I think it's important.

250
00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:14.039
That released.

251
00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:19.600
Say the names of the people that were involved. But

252
00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:21.320
let's just do this to see if we can to

253
00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:24.320
the comment you're on and approve me. I'll rephrase your own.

254
00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:33.720
The clients that we're talking about. These are all real people,

255
00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:34.240
yes or not.

256
00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:38.120
There are all real people. There are all good people.

257
00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:42.799
There are all people that I care about that I

258
00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:46.960
cared about then, and a lot of them people that

259
00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:51.960
I love, Okay, and I did wrong by them.

260
00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:54.360
Yes, you hurt the people that you love, I know, so.

261
00:15:59.039 --> 00:15:59.480
Sustain.

262
00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:03.639
These were all people, every single one of them, that

263
00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:06.639
you at least had a personal conversation.

264
00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:08.759
With at some point during the course of your representation.

265
00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:11.159
All of my client representation.

266
00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:16.360
Absolutely, I had multiple conversations with all of my clients.

267
00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:20.320
And these were people, every single one of them, real

268
00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:23.440
people that you looked in the eye and convinced them

269
00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:24.440
that everything was right.

270
00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:29.639
And Hunter four oh three repetitive accumulatives spent two hours

271
00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:30.000
doing the.

272
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:35.480
Shoesterday's simple questions that apply to everybody, and then I'm

273
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:36.960
moving on proceeds.

274
00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:42.120
I would have had conversations with all of my clients,

275
00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:45.080
and at some of the conversations would have been on

276
00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.440
the telephone. I would have had conversations where I might

277
00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:50.240
not be looking them into the eye. I would have

278
00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:52.600
had plenty of conversations where I did look them in

279
00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:52.960
the eye.

280
00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:54.679
Every single one of them. Look them in the eye

281
00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:55.200
at least once.

282
00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:59.600
Is that fair? Sure, every single one of them you

283
00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:02.480
look them in the eye and develop their trust in you.

284
00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:03.200
Is that true?

285
00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:10.559
Every client that I had, at some point I looked

286
00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:12.640
them in the eye, and I believe that I had

287
00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:14.920
the trust of my clients. Whether that came from me

288
00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:19.200
looking them in the eye or not. I can't answer that,

289
00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:22.079
but I will agree with you that every single client

290
00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:24.440
I looked them in the eye. And I believe that

291
00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:29.759
the people that I stole money from for all those

292
00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:31.240
years trusted me.

293
00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:34.559
And I'm gonna show you what's been previously admitted to

294
00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:39.720
states three twenty nine, I believe it is, and three fourteen,

295
00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:43.640
and I'm just going to ask you to cruise those

296
00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:45.240
freadsheets really quickly.

297
00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:47.640
All right, So I'm sorry, what was your question?

298
00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:48.839
I just asked you to look at them.

299
00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:50.720
Maybe I had a chance to review those documents I have,

300
00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:55.920
And would you agree with me for every single name

301
00:17:56.200 --> 00:18:03.920
on here or either clients that trusted you that you

302
00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:07.160
stole from or instances in which you stole from your

303
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:10.319
law partners who trusted you as well. I agree with that,

304
00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:12.079
all right, So we don't need to go through each

305
00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:13.640
one of these correct.

306
00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:19.920
Agree, mister Waters. Like I've told you, I'll go through

307
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:21.960
whatever you want to go through. But each one of

308
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:26.319
those clients is just what we've already talked about. Good people,

309
00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:33.440
find people, upstanding people. They trusted me, every single one

310
00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:36.720
of them. I did, and I do still care about

311
00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:42.880
and many of them I love and considered him close

312
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:47.359
friends like Baron Boyer. Absolutely, it's a perfect example.

313
00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:49.000
And you stole from Baron Boyer.

314
00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:49.559
I did.

315
00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:52.920
Do you recall a conversation that you have with Ronnie

316
00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:56.720
Crosby in which he told you that Barrot was desperate

317
00:18:56.799 --> 00:18:59.279
for money because he needed his wife to stay in

318
00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:03.119
a hotel near him while he was undergoing treating for

319
00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:06.480
terminal cancer around the time that you stole from him,

320
00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:09.960
all that.

321
00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:12.160
Jackson's over.

322
00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:15.720
I don't recall that conversation, but you know, I knew

323
00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:19.559
Barrett was sick. That you know, Barrett is a unique situation.

324
00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:24.400
I mean, Barrett, Barrett.

325
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:26.839
Is and was.

326
00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:35.039
Dear to me as a friend. But I mean Barrett

327
00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:41.160
and I had a long, long history, you know, I

328
00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:46.240
guess really and I lied probably more by omission, lies

329
00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:51.960
by mission and stealing that money. But that's a perfect example.

330
00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:54.720
You keep asking about me having these conversations and looking

331
00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:57.400
people in the eye. I mean, that's a perfect example.

332
00:19:57.680 --> 00:19:59.799
I mean when I stole that money, he was no

333
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:03.880
where around. It was more based on lies by a mission.

334
00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:09.680
And Barrett and I had such a history. These real

335
00:20:09.799 --> 00:20:12.559
estate deals that you're asking me about Barrett was one

336
00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:14.559
of my good friends, and we had been in these

337
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:18.559
real estate deals together. Barrett was just an interesting person.

338
00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:21.880
He was a shrimper, was born and raised in Allendale County,

339
00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:27.839
and he moved down to the coast and as shrimping.

340
00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:31.440
I don't know that we need Barrett's entire life story.

341
00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:34.000
No, but it's important. But I understand this based on

342
00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:35.079
the question you asked.

343
00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:38.359
I don't think his entire life story is responsible on him.

344
00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:41.480
And I'm not intending to give his life story. I'm

345
00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:45.359
just telling you a little background about your friend. So

346
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:50.880
Barrett started started getting into real estate, and he was

347
00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:54.359
really good at it, and so I started getting involved

348
00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:56.200
with him. And that he could go out and find

349
00:20:56.279 --> 00:20:58.880
pieces of property that were really cheap, get them and

350
00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:02.240
sell them and make money. Well, we got in some

351
00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:06.279
of these deals, and we got in this bar and

352
00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:12.119
some other people. Well, when the recession hit, one of

353
00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:14.960
the reasons these land deals caused me trouble is because

354
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.839
the people that I was in these deals with no

355
00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:21.480
longer could pay. Where whereas I might have gone in

356
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:25.480
and I was a twenty percent person, I'm now all

357
00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:28.640
of a sudden, either I have to default at the

358
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:36.039
bank and affect credit affectability to borrow or I have

359
00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:39.559
to pay one hundred percent, And so that's what I did.

360
00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:43.559
I paid one hundred percent, and so there were years

361
00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:48.039
where I was paying. Instead of a fifth or a half,

362
00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:51.160
I'm paying the whole thing, and it equated to hundreds

363
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:53.480
of do it equated to millions of dollars, which is

364
00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:56.839
one of the ways why I ended up with the

365
00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:02.359
Moselle property, because I had paid more than a million

366
00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:10.599
dollars in money's for Barrett, and that was part of

367
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:15.599
the deal in the trade in me purchasing Moseille.

368
00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:17.200
Telling me as you felt like you were entitled to

369
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:17.759
steal from it.

370
00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:22.440
No, No, you know what I will tell you this

371
00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:28.440
that you know, when you're doing the things wrong that

372
00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:30.640
I was doing, you have all kinds of ways of

373
00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:34.680
justifying it. And I'm not saying that makes it right

374
00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:37.119
by any means, because it's not is wrong. I've said

375
00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:39.680
that a hundred times. But when I was doing it,

376
00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:44.279
and I was as addicted as I was, and the

377
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:46.880
things I was doing, there's all kinds of things that

378
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:50.799
you you know, to be able to look yourself in

379
00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:58.920
the mirror, you lie to yourself. And I guess self

380
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:02.039
justification for these bad things. You know, I guess this

381
00:23:02.119 --> 00:23:04.839
is what I was doing. But you know, Barrett had

382
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:08.559
owed me so much money that when I took his money,

383
00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:12.880
I just didn't tell him. So it was it was

384
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:14.240
a lie about omission.

385
00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:15.160
All right.

386
00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:25.599
All these people on these two exhibits, these were real

387
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:26.799
people that needed this money.

388
00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:27.440
Is that correct?

389
00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:31.599
I'm sure they did, But it was more important to

390
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:35.759
you that you stole their money on top of the

391
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:38.400
forty percent of legal fees that you were taking.

392
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:41.680
Repetitive slack question.

393
00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:42.839
I stole their money.

394
00:23:43.400 --> 00:23:46.160
It was more important to you than their needs.

395
00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:46.799
Is that correct?

396
00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:49.680
Objection objections the rule.

397
00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:53.440
I don't remember sitting down and calculating, okay, is this

398
00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:54.279
more important?

399
00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:54.799
You know?

400
00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:57.720
One of the self justifications that I talked about, mister

401
00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:01.440
Waters is and this is one of the things. Again,

402
00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:05.000
I want to make it clear, I don't as I

403
00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:07.759
sit here today, I do not believe that any of

404
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:11.440
this justifications that I'm talking about made any of this okay,

405
00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:15.440
because I don't. I've owned up to all this money

406
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:18.240
I stole. I've tried to since I was confronted, and

407
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:22.839
I continue here today. But one of the justifications at

408
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:26.960
the time when I was taking pills and doing the

409
00:24:27.079 --> 00:24:34.039
things I was doing. Was I may ask a partner, okay,

410
00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:36.759
how much is this case worth? And if one of

411
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:38.799
my partners and I may not even give them all

412
00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:42.720
the real facts, okay. So if they said this case

413
00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:46.000
is worth one hundred thousand dollars, okay, and I go

414
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:49.880
out and I get them three hundred thousand dollars, you know,

415
00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:56.160
that's one of the stupid little things. Okay, Well this

416
00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:59.400
isn't the same. And that's one of those justifications that

417
00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:01.839
I use, and looking back on this that I don't

418
00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:05.200
know how I did. But so to sit down and say,

419
00:25:05.799 --> 00:25:09.720
did I evaluate that they needed the money more than

420
00:25:09.799 --> 00:25:14.279
I did? You know, I don't think I did that.

421
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:18.640
I think I was selfish and I I think I

422
00:25:20.359 --> 00:25:21.119
just took the money.

423
00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:32.640
I think I understand. I asked a series of questions

424
00:25:32.759 --> 00:25:35.880
yesterday about at least relating one conversation you had with

425
00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:38.799
one of these clients, and I'm just gonna ask you

426
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:42.200
this one. Do you remember looking Tony Sadfield in the

427
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:44.440
eye and lying to him.

428
00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:48.880
I remember lying to Tony Satterfield, and I remember looking

429
00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:51.799
him in the eye on many occasions.

430
00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:55.920
And lying to him. Yeah, lying to his family.

431
00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:01.440
I lied to his family. I don't know if I

432
00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:04.880
did it in person, but I know I had phone

433
00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:06.759
conversations with him where I lied to him.

434
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:11.759
Now, another contributing factor for the stealing, at least was

435
00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:17.160
Murdall's own emission of being addicted to painkillers. But while

436
00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:22.000
Murdall emits to being an addict, Waters is really suspicious

437
00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:25.480
that he's kind of overblown this a little bit. And

438
00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:29.119
in the next clip they discuss his addiction and his

439
00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:32.359
firm's reaction to discovering that addiction.

440
00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:38.720
Let's talk a little bit about the pills if we can, Okay,

441
00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:46.880
And you've already testified and a says other people that

442
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:49.000
you were still able to function as a lawyer over

443
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:51.799
the years despite the pills that you reuse.

444
00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:53.599
It's right, right, yes, sir.

445
00:26:54.680 --> 00:27:01.240
And you were able to during this period of time

446
00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:05.880
to engage in these relatively complicated tufts that increased over

447
00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:08.839
the years that we've just talked about despite the pill usage.

448
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:09.480
Is that correct?

449
00:27:09.640 --> 00:27:09.920
I was?

450
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:12.279
I was?

451
00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:23.359
And you were also able to during the time period

452
00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:25.599
convince your staff that nothing was a mess with all

453
00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:29.279
these exhibits despite your pill usage.

454
00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:40.119
I mean, most of those didn't require convincing my staff.

455
00:27:40.359 --> 00:27:45.319
But just so we're on the same page again, I

456
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:53.359
acknowledge that I certainly allowed them to be misled. I

457
00:27:53.559 --> 00:27:58.880
certainly allowed them to do things that I shouldn't have

458
00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:03.400
done on my behalf, knowing that they trusted me.

459
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:06.920
How many how many pills were you using a.

460
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:08.160
Day depends on.

461
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:14.799
A number of items, most most importantly how strong the

462
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:15.359
pill was.

463
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:18.880
Okay, well, let's talk about Let's say start maybe in

464
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:21.480
January of twenty twenty one and move forward. Can you

465
00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:25.079
describe to the jury what your daily pill intake was like.

466
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:29.759
I think at that time most of what I was

467
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:41.720
purchasing was thirty milligram pills instant release oxy codone that

468
00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:47.559
probably mixed in with some oxy contin, which is made

469
00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:53.160
of oxy codone. It's just time release. I would have

470
00:28:53.240 --> 00:29:15.640
been taken anywhere from fifteen one hundred milligrams maybe to

471
00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:28.400
maybe a thousand or maybe a thousand milligrams or twelve

472
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:31.559
hundred milligrams on a day. I didn't take as much

473
00:29:31.799 --> 00:29:34.839
or didn't have as much up to I mean, there

474
00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:38.680
are days, many days, a lot of days, most days

475
00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:42.240
were more than that, and many days would be you know,

476
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:46.279
twenty more than two thousand milligrams a day.

477
00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:47.480
How many pills is that?

478
00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:53.400
It depends on the strength. Well, let's say that you

479
00:29:53.559 --> 00:29:58.319
just mentioned if I took thirty, If I had thirty

480
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:05.359
milligram pills, you figure one hundred pills would be three

481
00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:07.039
thousand milligrams.

482
00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:14.880
One hundred, So you're taking sixty a day or something

483
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:15.119
like that.

484
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:17.079
And there were days where I took more than that,

485
00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:18.640
there were days I took less than that.

486
00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:20.599
And how would you take them during the course of

487
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:23.559
the day. I mean, how many are you taking at

488
00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:26.240
one time? How frequent in this time period? And let's

489
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:27.279
say January to June.

490
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:30.839
You know, there's a point in time and I'm not

491
00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:33.319
sure when it was. I think it was well before

492
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:37.839
that where And you have to understand this, this is

493
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:41.799
something that I didn't I can still remember the first

494
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:45.119
time I ever took an oxy contradoc can.

495
00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:46.799
I ask you to answer my question and I'll let

496
00:30:46.839 --> 00:30:47.680
you explain all you want.

497
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:49.640
And my question was how many were you taking a

498
00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:53.599
day during this time from January to June? Answer that

499
00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:56.000
first place, and if you want to explain, I'm happy.

500
00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:56.200
To let you do.

501
00:30:56.319 --> 00:31:00.359
So I'm not positive. And here's why. It's because over

502
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:03.480
the years, like as I was saying, the first oxy

503
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:10.160
contin one, OxyContin made me literally made me sick. And

504
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:13.960
that was when I was transitioning from hydro codone to oxycodone.

505
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:16.880
And it made me sick because there's a really, really

506
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:20.799
really strong one and so you know, one OxyContin pill

507
00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:26.799
was like ten hydro codone pills. So but anyway, as

508
00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:30.720
I took more and more and over the years, it

509
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:33.880
just you know, you build up a tolerance to pain pills,

510
00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:39.119
and so what might give me this energy? The reason,

511
00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:42.279
one of the reasons I became so addicted is you

512
00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:44.519
know some people talk about pain pills and how they

513
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:47.759
make them lethargic and you know where they can't do

514
00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:53.880
anything and they feel opiates gave me energy.

515
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:54.839
I mean, I.

516
00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:59.960
It whatever I was doing and made it more interesting.

517
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:05.160
You know, it made me want to do it longer, uh,

518
00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:07.400
you know, to go on to drive. It made driving.

519
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:12.279
It's just it just at the beginning, it made everything better.

520
00:32:12.680 --> 00:32:16.519
But I took so much just to keep it got

521
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:18.920
to a point where I was taking so much just

522
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:24.440
to not backslide or go into withdraws or have all

523
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:25.279
those symptoms.

524
00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:25.920
And so.

525
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:33.799
It got to the point where I was taking the

526
00:32:33.880 --> 00:32:37.680
amounts that I came to be taken in the time

527
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:42.519
period you're talking about January to June. So it evolved

528
00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:45.759
over time. It wasn't like it just started in mister Waters.

529
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:48.039
Can you just give me one one example of the

530
00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:49.160
day during that time period?

531
00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:49.680
Sure?

532
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:51.880
So, I mean, just did you take start at eight

533
00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:53.960
o'clock in the morning or or whatever time you got

534
00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:56.160
up and take one and then won every thirty minutes.

535
00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:59.240
I mean, I were giving you a chance to explain

536
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:01.559
depend It.

537
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:07.839
Would totally depend on any numerous circumstances. So starting a day,

538
00:33:08.119 --> 00:33:10.200
one of the main things that this would depend on

539
00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:14.839
was how late the day before I had taken pills

540
00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:19.240
and how many I had taken, and did I take

541
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:21.000
them during the night, did I wake up during the

542
00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:26.920
night and take them? So you know, let's just say

543
00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:30.039
that it had been a while since I took any

544
00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:34.480
and I slept and I woke up, all right, then

545
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:41.279
I would immediately immediately, first thing, take pills because if

546
00:33:41.319 --> 00:33:44.440
it's been a while, A lot of times, if you

547
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:48.000
slept and hadn't taken pills, you'd wake up and you

548
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:52.920
could tell the beginnings of those I'm not going to

549
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:55.839
say they were really withdraws, but that agitation that you

550
00:33:55.960 --> 00:33:58.599
feel when you don't take it, and you could tell it,

551
00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:00.240
so you had to take it right away, and so

552
00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:01.920
I would start off first thing I would do with

553
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:02.519
take pills.

554
00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:05.839
And that's how strong the withdrawals are for apio. It's

555
00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:09.119
correct that you feel that agitation until you can take

556
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:09.679
another pill.

557
00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:16.880
Yes, I mean, but I mean that's just agitations to

558
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:23.079
tip of the iceberg when it comes to withdraws, opiate withdraws.

559
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:27.320
I think you said in your Must play for the

560
00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:31.760
Jury and the telephone conversation with special Agent Kelly that

561
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:36.039
and you talked about with draws just how strong.

562
00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:37.719
They are, how you're willing to do anything to make

563
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:38.239
them stop.

564
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:38.880
Correct.

565
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:41.760
I think what I said is almost anything.

566
00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:44.360
Almost anything. We'll describe that please.

567
00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:49.960
I mean you're sick, yeah, I mean you're physically you know,

568
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:57.119
you are physically sick. You it's like having the flu,

569
00:34:57.320 --> 00:35:03.119
when you ache and you join, it's hurt, you don't

570
00:35:03.159 --> 00:35:07.159
want to get up, you can't get up, and that's

571
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:12.320
after a while. It starts with what you're talking about, agitation.

572
00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:16.119
And you know, Fidget, everybody talks about how fidgety.

573
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:21.119
I was, But it starts.

574
00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:25.559
With with that, and then it goes to you know,

575
00:35:25.719 --> 00:35:28.360
you just you might be sitting here and just all

576
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:32.559
of a sudden, sweats running down your face, all over

577
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:34.840
your body. I mean you like you ran a marathon.

578
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:40.679
I mean you literally sweat that much. The next thing

579
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:45.320
that comes on after about I don't know twelve hours

580
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:49.960
is I call it jumpy legs, but I mean you literally,

581
00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:53.400
I mean you, there's no way that you could sit

582
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:56.559
right here in this chair. I mean you couldn't. You

583
00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:59.119
couldn't remain sitting. I mean you would have to get

584
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:01.239
up and move around, and I mean it's like your

585
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:04.880
legs don't want to work. And that lasts for about

586
00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:13.440
twenty anywhere from eighteen to twenty four hours. During during

587
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:18.719
that period, the uh, you know, the intestinal issues come

588
00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:27.280
in and I mean you literally you can't control yourself.

589
00:36:27.400 --> 00:36:27.679
You have.

590
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:38.960
Diarrhea, like you have food poisoning, you throw up. I

591
00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:42.280
mean you physically physically sick.

592
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:45.400
How many times did you try to selft de talks.

593
00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:55.840
Mister Waters Dozens dozens, if not hundreds. You know, there's

594
00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:57.320
so many I can't tell you.

595
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:04.519
And those those symptoms you just described are extremely powerful

596
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:07.199
and made it very difficult to do that. Is that correct?

597
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:11.840
Made it difficult to to try to self detis Oh,

598
00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:14.480
it's it's extremely hard.

599
00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:21.679
You mentioned yesterday that you were paranoid.

600
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:23.639
How long had that.

601
00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:24.119
Been going on?

602
00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:29.599
Well, no, I didn't say that I was paranoid. What

603
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:33.079
I said was as the addiction evolved, there would be

604
00:37:33.159 --> 00:37:39.199
situations where you would have these paranoid thoughts.

605
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:40.800
And when those first start.

606
00:37:41.639 --> 00:37:43.960
I can't tell you when they first started, but I.

607
00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:48.000
Mean how long before June or twenty twenty one alone? Alone?

608
00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:48.119
No?

609
00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:51.119
No, no, no, no, it was you know, it was

610
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:58.880
as my addiction got worse. I mean it was a

611
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:03.920
significant period of but you know, we have these faranoid thoughts.

612
00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:08.880
I usually a matter of seconds. I mean it was

613
00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:17.119
something again my whole life. You wouldn't see me where

614
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:20.199
I didn't have pills on me, and that's where I

615
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:22.400
kept them. I kept them on me because I was

616
00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:25.159
scared to put them somewhere for fear somebody would find them.

617
00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:27.760
So I kept them on me. So if you saw me,

618
00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:29.960
I had pills on me. I had a pocket full

619
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:35.880
of pills on June to eighth. On June eighth, when

620
00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:44.320
I was sitting in in David Owen's patrol car. So

621
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:50.079
I always had them on me and I might turn

622
00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:54.559
I might be going to edistonwe and I turned on

623
00:38:55.159 --> 00:38:59.599
Hampton Street right out here, and a police car pulls out. Boom,

624
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:08.719
have paranoid thoughts, you know it just but I could

625
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:14.719
always say, I'm not doing You're not doing anything wrong.

626
00:39:14.920 --> 00:39:17.960
He's not following you, and I can get past it

627
00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:19.599
in a matter of seconds.

628
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:26.960
Did anybody in your family ever see you.

629
00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:30.760
Having these severe withdrawals?

630
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:43.480
Absolutely? And Max, Paul, Paul, Bus, my dad, Randy, John Marvin,

631
00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:53.760
And just to be clear, Randy and John Marvin never

632
00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:59.800
saw me having withdrawals before September.

633
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:03.599
They show me, and I think you can clarify that.

634
00:40:03.719 --> 00:40:05.880
Prior to Jane twenty twenty one, who in your family

635
00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:08.119
saw you having these severe withdrawals?

636
00:40:08.599 --> 00:40:14.519
Bus, Paul, Paul, Maggie, my dad.

637
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:24.199
Do you.

638
00:40:26.679 --> 00:40:32.079
Remember in calling remember calling Paul a little detective.

639
00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:37.079
I don't know that I ever called him a little detective,

640
00:40:37.159 --> 00:40:39.880
but I think Maggie did. I may have. I mean,

641
00:40:40.039 --> 00:40:44.440
I Paul was very intuitive, so I heard Mary. I

642
00:40:44.519 --> 00:40:47.480
heard I heard Mary him call him a little detective.

643
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:49.199
I know Maggie used to call him that.

644
00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:51.880
Did that have anything to do with the pills?

645
00:40:55.920 --> 00:41:00.199
Well, yeah, yeah, it had something to do with it.

646
00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:03.360
But I mean Paul was always that way, but that

647
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:07.480
that what led him to be called a little detective.

648
00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:13.679
Certainly there were times when when Paul found pills.

649
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:18.400
Inquitting just a month before the murders, Is that correct?

650
00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:20.320
No, sir?

651
00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:26.360
All right, you recalled six five twenty three. That was

652
00:41:26.519 --> 00:41:28.800
enter int evidants, which is a tax from Paul to you,

653
00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:34.360
I do, which is said that Maggie found pills in

654
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:36.920
your back, right, tell me about what.

655
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:37.639
Happened after that.

656
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:39.880
You asked me about Paul finding them, but it was

657
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:40.960
Maggie that found.

658
00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:44.400
Him, fair enough, So it was Maggie that found him, Yes, sir, okay,

659
00:41:44.639 --> 00:41:48.199
but Paul is the one to reach out to you, correct.

660
00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:50.639
On that occasion, yes, sir.

661
00:41:51.760 --> 00:41:53.159
And what was the discussion after that?

662
00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:58.559
I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was

663
00:41:58.639 --> 00:42:05.079
about that I'd had an eye surgery the I don't

664
00:42:05.159 --> 00:42:07.880
know what day it was, but days before that, the

665
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:11.280
day Maggie found that, Maggie drove me to the doctor

666
00:42:11.360 --> 00:42:20.719
for me to have my cataract removed whatever late whatever

667
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:22.639
they call that surgery I can't remember. I had a

668
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:25.079
cataract taken out an outpatient. You go in for a

669
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:28.800
couple hours and you come out. And it was during

670
00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:32.159
COVID and so Maggie wasn't allowed to come into the

671
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:35.679
doctor's office, and so she sat in the car and

672
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:44.320
I had left pills in a computer bag and sitting

673
00:42:44.360 --> 00:42:47.920
out there board guesse. She started looking at my computer

674
00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:50.800
and found them in the computer bag. So she found

675
00:42:52.039 --> 00:42:53.079
those pills.

676
00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:58.400
All right, And so she obviously told Paul, and Paul

677
00:42:58.840 --> 00:43:02.239
texted you correct about finding those pills.

678
00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:06.320
That's correct. And May one, that's correct.

679
00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:09.320
And you've heard your sister in law Mary and testify

680
00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:11.880
that Maggie called him the little detective about the pills.

681
00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:13.840
You heard that testimony in the courtroom.

682
00:43:13.960 --> 00:43:15.400
I did hear that, all right.

683
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:19.760
So did they start to watch you like a hawk

684
00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:22.000
and get on you about your pill usage during the

685
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:22.599
month of May.

686
00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:29.480
No, they did not know, mister Waters, this battle that

687
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:37.000
I had with addiction, it had been going on for years, years,

688
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:41.199
and so they had been watching me like a hawk

689
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:48.320
for years before May. May was just one occurrence where

690
00:43:48.360 --> 00:43:49.320
I let them down.

691
00:43:52.599 --> 00:43:52.920
Again.

692
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:56.199
They have been watching you like a hawk for years.

693
00:43:56.320 --> 00:43:57.239
Is that correct.

694
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:03.840
About my pill addiction. Yes, sir, that is correct.

695
00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:05.639
This Simon May.

696
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:08.920
That wasn't the only time that Paul found pills. Where

697
00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:09.679
Maggie found.

698
00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:10.400
Pills, was up correct?

699
00:44:11.960 --> 00:44:18.480
Now, there were a number of times where Mag's found pills, Paul,

700
00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:26.320
Paul found pills, Bus found pills. I mean, it was ongoing.

701
00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:32.199
It was just an ongoing battle for me.

702
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:37.119
And after they found those pills in May, that being

703
00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:40.280
Maggie and Paul, were they trying to get you to

704
00:44:40.360 --> 00:44:41.079
soft detox?

705
00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:46.239
No, sir, not at that point in time.

706
00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:47.639
They just let it go.

707
00:44:48.199 --> 00:44:51.840
No, they didn't let it go. But at that point

708
00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:55.360
in time, Paul, Paul and I had already had a

709
00:44:55.440 --> 00:45:05.760
discussion based on I can't remember exactly when it was,

710
00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:10.119
but there'd been a previous occasion a good while back

711
00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:19.159
where there had been a previous occasion where either Maggie

712
00:45:19.199 --> 00:45:21.599
or Paul had found pills, and Paul had come to

713
00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:26.039
me and asked me, and I told him, you know,

714
00:45:26.719 --> 00:45:31.639
I was back on the pills. We had had a

715
00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:34.760
long talk. As I said, I don't remember exactly when

716
00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:36.440
it was. Before that, Paul and I had a long

717
00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:37.960
talk and.

718
00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:40.400
We'd agreed.

719
00:45:41.039 --> 00:45:47.280
I had agreed and I detoxed so many times I'd

720
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:51.360
been to detox. I detoxed at home with Maggie's help,

721
00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:55.960
detox at home with doctor's help, detoxed on my own,

722
00:45:56.119 --> 00:46:00.559
tried to and it just it just detail and just

723
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:08.760
didn't work. It just you couldn't. You could detox, but

724
00:46:08.920 --> 00:46:14.159
you couldn't. No, no, you, I couldn't. I couldn't stay

725
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:14.880
off of them.

726
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:20.199
And so.

727
00:46:27.280 --> 00:46:36.599
I promised Paul, Yeah, that as soon as this, as

728
00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:40.239
soon as we finished with his criminal case, that I

729
00:46:40.280 --> 00:46:54.960
would go to rehab. And and on this particular occasion,

730
00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:05.880
Paul knew that his worried about me so much with

731
00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:19.760
pills that on this particular occasion, I think that Paul

732
00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:30.360
Paul convinced Maggie that I got those pills in anticipation

733
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:33.320
of the eye surgery, but that I never took them

734
00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:36.679
so that she would not worry that I was.

735
00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:43.400
Once again, now you're claiming that about the time in

736
00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:47.079
May that Paul talked to Maggie and the semester of that,

737
00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:48.599
or you're talking about a different time.

738
00:47:48.679 --> 00:47:51.039
I'm not claiming that, mister Waters. That's a fact. This

739
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:55.239
is what happened. We're hearing that now, correct, hearing what

740
00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:58.280
now what you just said, Well, you just asked me this,

741
00:47:58.599 --> 00:48:00.880
mister Waters. You keep making issue about the first time

742
00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:04.199
you hearing these things. When I got arrested and I

743
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:07.480
went to jail, we began reaching out to you to

744
00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:10.000
talk to you about all of these things, to try

745
00:48:10.039 --> 00:48:12.079
to tell you everything that I had done, to give

746
00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:14.320
you all these details to help y'all go through these

747
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:18.559
financial things. And up until the time that y'all charged

748
00:48:18.639 --> 00:48:21.880
me with murdering my wife and child, you would never

749
00:48:25.079 --> 00:48:30.519
give Jim Griffin a response to iron imitations to sit

750
00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:31.320
down and meet with you.

751
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:34.840
So you're telling me I never responded to Jim Griffin?

752
00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:36.039
Is that what you're saying here today?

753
00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:37.239
I'm telling you.

754
00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:40.519
Are you saying that you ever before yesterday reached out

755
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:43.840
to anyone through yourself or through your attorneys and reached

756
00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:46.480
out anyone in law enforcement or the prosecution and told

757
00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:47.880
them the story about the kennels?

758
00:48:47.880 --> 00:48:50.119
Are you telling me that I'm what I'm telling you?

759
00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:51.320
First?

760
00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:52.679
Please, sir, answer my roquestion.

761
00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:56.920
First, did you ever reach out to anyone in law

762
00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:00.239
enforcement or the prosecution and tell that story that you

763
00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:02.159
told us jury yesterday about the kennels?

764
00:49:02.239 --> 00:49:06.960
Before yesterday, did I ever reach out to law enforcement

765
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:09.400
to say I want to tell you about the Kennel's. No, sir,

766
00:49:09.519 --> 00:49:09.840
I did not.

767
00:49:11.159 --> 00:49:15.920
What happened with the Fifth amendmic line word this questioning

768
00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:20.239
about him volunteering information on these charges violates his Fifth

769
00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:23.079
Amendment rights, and we strongly object anymore.

770
00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:25.280
We have to make a motion.

771
00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:28.360
Objections overrule.

772
00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:33.800
What I did was So that's my question.

773
00:49:33.880 --> 00:49:35.679
First, said Greg, he did not bring it.

774
00:49:35.800 --> 00:49:37.360
He was talking about financial staff.

775
00:49:37.480 --> 00:49:49.320
Mister good sir, yes or no question?

776
00:49:50.639 --> 00:49:54.599
Before yesterday? Did you ever bring up what you told

777
00:49:54.639 --> 00:49:57.639
the story about that kennels to anybody in the prosecution

778
00:49:57.719 --> 00:49:59.079
or anybody in law enforcem.

779
00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:00.920
No.

780
00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:04.719
I didn't have the opportunity to, mister Waters, because you

781
00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:10.599
would not respond to my invitations to reach out and

782
00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:13.599
tell you about all the things that I'd done wrong

783
00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:18.000
and to talk about bringing this to a head, to

784
00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:21.400
talk about bringing this se clution. I understand how many

785
00:50:21.440 --> 00:50:27.320
people I hurt. I understand how angry my partners are

786
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:30.599
and how hurt they are, and I understand how hurt

787
00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:34.880
these people that I stole money from are. I understand

788
00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:37.719
how hurt they are. And one of the things that

789
00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:41.719
I believe is getting past this may help them get

790
00:50:41.800 --> 00:50:46.599
some closure. And so since at least January, I've been

791
00:50:47.159 --> 00:50:51.639
trying to sit down with y'all to talk to y'all

792
00:50:52.800 --> 00:51:01.000
and never ever got a response to the multiple requests. Requests, yes, sir,

793
00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:07.360
multiple requests I would ask about this. Let's yes, sir, sir.

794
00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:11.679
Did Mark Ball ever hear your story to the jury

795
00:51:11.719 --> 00:51:13.320
about the kennels until yesterday?

796
00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:16.199
Their buddy and law partner, Mark Ball.

797
00:51:16.760 --> 00:51:18.840
I haven't spoken to Mark Ball since I went to.

798
00:51:18.880 --> 00:51:23.039
Rehab, and these were the same law partners that you

799
00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:25.239
were listening to the night of Is that what you

800
00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:26.719
testified to this jury earlier?

801
00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:30.039
You testified to that earlier?

802
00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:30.440
Did you know?

803
00:51:31.719 --> 00:51:32.920
I don't understand your questions.

804
00:51:32.920 --> 00:51:35.320
Didn't you testify earlier that you were listening to your

805
00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:36.239
law partners on the.

806
00:51:36.320 --> 00:51:37.199
Night of the incident?

807
00:51:39.480 --> 00:51:40.320
Was I listening to them?

808
00:51:40.440 --> 00:51:42.599
Yeah, you testified to that simple question, sir.

809
00:51:44.360 --> 00:51:46.760
I'm sure I was. When are you talking about?

810
00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:49.480
On June eighth, in the early morning hours, you testified

811
00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:51.159
to this jury that you were listening to them, But

812
00:51:51.239 --> 00:51:53.760
you never told them the Kindel's story either, and they

813
00:51:53.800 --> 00:51:55.679
heard it for the first time yesterday as well. Isn't

814
00:51:55.679 --> 00:51:56.119
that correct?

815
00:51:57.599 --> 00:51:59.840
Yes, that's the first time they heard it at fig.

816
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:03.679
That Ronnie Crosby ever heard that would have been yesterday.

817
00:52:03.400 --> 00:52:05.079
If he was listening, that would have been the first

818
00:52:05.119 --> 00:52:05.639
time he heard.

819
00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:08.119
Johnny Parker ever heard that was yesterday.

820
00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:12.679
Yes first time Danny Henderson.

821
00:52:12.760 --> 00:52:14.840
Who was representing you in the boat case, ever heard

822
00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:15.679
that was yesterday.

823
00:52:17.320 --> 00:52:20.480
Yes, yesterday is the first time that I have said

824
00:52:20.519 --> 00:52:27.079
that openly. But that's not what you were asking me,

825
00:52:27.159 --> 00:52:29.920
mister Waters. But you can go ahead.

826
00:52:30.079 --> 00:52:32.519
First time your brother Randy heard that was yesterday.

827
00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:35.920
If he was listening. And mister Waters, just to be clear,

828
00:52:36.559 --> 00:52:39.559
I was begging for a meeting with y'all to try

829
00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:41.760
to bring this to a clothes to talk to y'all

830
00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:45.559
about everything up until the time that y'all charged me

831
00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:50.559
with hurting Maggie and Paul. Now, after that point in time,

832
00:52:53.960 --> 00:52:55.880
I stopped obviously listening that you.

833
00:52:55.920 --> 00:52:59.000
Were begging for a meeting and information and you but

834
00:52:59.079 --> 00:53:01.840
you had met the information and was never conveyed that

835
00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:06.119
you wanted to change your story. After multiple interviews with

836
00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:10.199
law enforcements about what happened that night, including the most

837
00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:12.639
important fact of all, which is when the last time

838
00:53:12.760 --> 00:53:14.880
you supposedly saw your wife and son alive.

839
00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:18.960
Was I don't know exactly what was conveyed or not

840
00:53:19.480 --> 00:53:22.920
because to you, because I wasn't part of All I

841
00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:26.000
know is what I was trying to do was to

842
00:53:26.119 --> 00:53:32.119
sit down. I understood to bring all this to a close,

843
00:53:32.679 --> 00:53:35.039
that y'all would want me to sit down and go

844
00:53:35.239 --> 00:53:38.639
through all of these financial things, all of these things

845
00:53:38.679 --> 00:53:41.840
that i'd done wrong, and to try to bring that

846
00:53:41.920 --> 00:53:46.760
to a close. I was repeatedly trying to sit down

847
00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:47.159
with y'all.

848
00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:50.199
The reality is, mister Murdock, is the reason why no

849
00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:53.119
one's ever heard that before is because you had to

850
00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:56.079
sit in this courtroom and hear your family and your friends,

851
00:53:56.400 --> 00:53:58.199
one after the other come in and testify that you

852
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:00.960
were on that Kenel video. So you, like you've done

853
00:54:01.039 --> 00:54:03.079
so many times over the course of your life, had

854
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:05.360
to back up and make a new story that kind

855
00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:07.119
of fit with the facts that can't be denied.

856
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:08.280
Isn't that true, sir?

857
00:54:08.719 --> 00:54:09.840
No, sir, that's not true.

858
00:54:09.960 --> 00:54:14.599
Okay, You've done that over and over again over the

859
00:54:14.679 --> 00:54:16.119
years with all of this that we've been talking about,

860
00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:16.480
haven't you.

861
00:54:17.960 --> 00:54:19.400
I've done what over and over again.

862
00:54:19.559 --> 00:54:22.960
The second that you're confronted with facts that you can't deny,

863
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:28.960
you immediately come up with a new lie. Isn't that correct,

864
00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:31.800
mister Waters.

865
00:54:32.039 --> 00:54:35.880
We've established I have lied many times, But I can't

866
00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:37.480
sit here and tell you that what are you talking

867
00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:41.480
about facts that I can't deny that I would disagree

868
00:54:41.519 --> 00:54:44.360
with that proposition that you're putting out that that was

869
00:54:44.599 --> 00:54:47.360
what I did all the time. But in doing that,

870
00:54:47.519 --> 00:54:50.960
I admit again that I have lied to people that

871
00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:51.639
trusted me.

872
00:54:54.079 --> 00:55:00.360
So we can agree that the prosecution and law enforcement.

873
00:55:01.480 --> 00:55:04.320
And so many of your friends and family heard for

874
00:55:04.440 --> 00:55:08.960
the first time your story about the kennels yesterday, after

875
00:55:09.400 --> 00:55:10.800
all these weeks of testimony.

876
00:55:11.679 --> 00:55:12.559
Can we agree on that.

877
00:55:14.440 --> 00:55:20.519
The law enforcement, my partners, and my friends heard me

878
00:55:20.599 --> 00:55:22.760
say that for the first time. Yes, I agree with that.

879
00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:28.199
That your own lawyer was repeating your story that you

880
00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:31.880
were at home napping as late as November of twenty

881
00:55:31.920 --> 00:55:34.639
two on national television.

882
00:55:36.559 --> 00:55:38.400
I don't I don't know that you don't know that.

883
00:55:38.920 --> 00:55:43.760
Now in jail, we don't get newspapers and the TV

884
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:44.440
we have is.

885
00:55:44.480 --> 00:55:47.079
Limited, so so your own lawyers, at least as late

886
00:55:47.119 --> 00:55:50.079
as November twenty two, didn't know this story that you've

887
00:55:50.119 --> 00:55:52.440
told to this jury. After five weeks of your family

888
00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:54.039
and friends coming in and saying, yeah, that'say him on

889
00:55:54.119 --> 00:55:54.519
that video.

890
00:55:54.840 --> 00:55:57.760
I gave your honor of Alex's attorney client privilege communication

891
00:55:57.960 --> 00:55:58.719
totally improper.

892
00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:03.039
This certain response.

893
00:56:03.559 --> 00:56:07.159
He has brought up his communications with counsel, and now

894
00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:12.320
that is fair game. You're on this communications through council

895
00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:15.079
are alleged communications with the prosecution.

896
00:56:16.599 --> 00:56:22.119
He didn't. There's no attorney client privilege to national television interviews.

897
00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:24.480
The objections overruled.

898
00:56:26.039 --> 00:56:27.920
Are you waiting for me to answer, mister Waters or

899
00:56:28.039 --> 00:56:28.679
did I answer?

900
00:56:28.920 --> 00:56:33.280
I think the points made all right. You said you

901
00:56:33.320 --> 00:56:36.199
were unaware of that national television interview. Though what you say.

902
00:56:38.360 --> 00:56:40.719
Unaware of what national television interview.

903
00:56:40.519 --> 00:56:42.519
The one where your lawyer repeated that story is late

904
00:56:42.519 --> 00:56:45.039
as November of twenty twenty two. Your story that you

905
00:56:45.159 --> 00:56:47.480
were actually homeless sleep at the house.

906
00:56:49.159 --> 00:56:56.400
The only the only national TV ad that I'm aware

907
00:56:56.480 --> 00:57:03.280
of is not ad program is one that mister Griffin

908
00:57:03.440 --> 00:57:07.000
was involved in. Was a are you referring to like

909
00:57:07.079 --> 00:57:12.199
a dateline something? Okay? HBO? All right, like, so yeah,

910
00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:15.880
I am aware of that, And what I believe the

911
00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:18.800
case to be is that I believe that when that

912
00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:23.039
was in its works, that mister Griffin made those statements

913
00:57:23.119 --> 00:57:31.280
sometime substantially before November of twenty two, as early as

914
00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:35.480
around the very beginning of twenty twenty one.

915
00:57:37.239 --> 00:57:37.960
Let's talk.

916
00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:41.000
At least what I understand to be the case.

917
00:57:41.519 --> 00:57:43.800
Let's talk some more about your test some money from yesterday,

918
00:57:45.280 --> 00:57:48.119
and you're telling this jury even I'm something that's clear

919
00:57:48.159 --> 00:57:51.519
as skinnel video, that your story doesn't change when you

920
00:57:51.639 --> 00:57:53.400
have to make them fit the facts that no longer

921
00:57:53.440 --> 00:57:54.000
can be tonight.

922
00:57:54.480 --> 00:57:55.440
Know what you're telling this jury.

923
00:57:56.960 --> 00:57:58.920
I don't understand that question. Say that again.

924
00:57:59.559 --> 00:58:04.400
I said, you're telling this jury that you don't change

925
00:58:04.440 --> 00:58:07.559
your story to make the facts fit evidence. You can

926
00:58:07.639 --> 00:58:10.719
no longer deny what's going on in this courtland.

927
00:58:12.119 --> 00:58:16.239
I'm not telling the jury anything about that.

928
00:58:16.639 --> 00:58:19.920
All right, all right, let's move on. Let's talk some

929
00:58:19.960 --> 00:58:30.719
more about that issue. Let's talk about the confrontation on

930
00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:33.920
June the seventh, the Genie secondary which you told was

931
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:34.559
no big deal.

932
00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:38.000
Isn't that what you test five words to that effect.

933
00:58:40.599 --> 00:58:42.880
I think what I testify to is that to me,

934
00:58:43.400 --> 00:58:47.440
it certainly didn't seem like a confrontation. Gennie came to

935
00:58:47.599 --> 00:58:52.960
me and was almost apologetic. And this is what I believe,

936
00:58:53.119 --> 00:58:58.000
mister Waters, is I believe that what Jennie Seconder and

937
00:58:58.159 --> 00:59:03.119
my partners have had to go through through since September

938
00:59:03.960 --> 00:59:10.679
has been hard. I know they I mean, I could

939
00:59:10.840 --> 00:59:16.280
see it. I could see the hurt that I caused them.

940
00:59:17.079 --> 00:59:20.440
And I know that they're betrayed, and I know that

941
00:59:20.519 --> 00:59:24.840
they're angry, and I know that they're hurt. And I

942
00:59:24.920 --> 00:59:28.599
want to make clear to this that while I disagree

943
00:59:28.960 --> 00:59:33.280
with what Gennie said as to it being a confrontation,

944
00:59:33.840 --> 00:59:36.119
because I don't believe that it was. I don't think

945
00:59:36.159 --> 00:59:38.559
that she was lying. I think that she feels it.

946
00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:42.079
I think that, you know, she believes that that's the

947
00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:45.519
case after all this time that she's had to deal

948
00:59:45.599 --> 00:59:48.039
with this. But on June the seventh, when she came

949
00:59:48.119 --> 00:59:52.639
to me, she was almost apologetic. She you heard her

950
00:59:52.840 --> 00:59:56.239
say that she said that she wouldn't be doing her

951
00:59:56.360 --> 00:59:59.119
job if she didn't do this, And it was made

952
00:59:59.199 --> 01:00:05.480
clear to me that someone had said this that I

953
01:00:05.639 --> 01:00:08.239
had to make sure that income came through the firm,

954
01:00:08.719 --> 01:00:12.840
that I couldn't structure money. In other words, I had

955
01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:19.440
the impression that there was concern that maybe, like Mark

956
01:00:19.519 --> 01:00:22.159
Ball and Ronnie Crosby said that maybe I was hiding

957
01:00:22.599 --> 01:00:28.119
hiding fees because of the civil boat case. But that

958
01:00:28.239 --> 01:00:32.280
conversation is so quick, mister Waters that you keep using

959
01:00:32.360 --> 01:00:36.119
the term confrontation. I didn't take it as a confrontation.

960
01:00:37.119 --> 01:00:39.880
And you're telling this jury you're not making that issue fit,

961
01:00:42.159 --> 01:00:44.920
make your story fit with those facts by saying it

962
01:00:45.079 --> 01:00:48.719
wasn't a big deal. And Jeanie, she's hurt, so she's

963
01:00:48.760 --> 01:00:52.119
ever reacting that. No, that's not I'm standing testify.

964
01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:55.119
What I'm saying is exactly what I just testified to

965
01:00:55.639 --> 01:00:59.559
that to me on that day, that was not a

966
01:00:59.639 --> 01:01:04.119
conference titation. It ended almost as quickly as it began,

967
01:01:04.840 --> 01:01:11.559
and I didn't think about it again for a period

968
01:01:11.599 --> 01:01:15.159
of time until after everything happened.

969
01:01:15.639 --> 01:01:18.400
You testified earlier. You get paranoid if a police officer

970
01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:20.960
turns out behind you, But you're not getting paranoid when

971
01:01:21.039 --> 01:01:23.960
Genie comes in here and says, I need an answer

972
01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:24.880
about these fees.

973
01:01:25.519 --> 01:01:33.119
Nah, because no, things like that wouldn't cause the paranoid thought.

974
01:01:33.239 --> 01:01:37.480
And in the paranoid thinking, it was always related to pills.

975
01:01:37.880 --> 01:01:42.000
It was always okay. That reaction that somebody just gave.

976
01:01:41.920 --> 01:01:43.400
Me was always related to pills.

977
01:01:43.440 --> 01:01:48.400
Do they know something did something somebody said it was

978
01:01:49.719 --> 01:01:53.440
I mean the times, That's that's what when I when

979
01:01:53.480 --> 01:01:57.199
I had to deal with paranoid thinking that. You know,

980
01:01:57.360 --> 01:01:59.880
if if a judge confronted me in the courtroom about

981
01:01:59.920 --> 01:02:05.880
it piece of evidence, or if Genie asked me about that,

982
01:02:06.320 --> 01:02:11.840
those are not things that gave me paranoid thinking.

983
01:02:12.519 --> 01:02:17.119
Okay, And you testified the same thing about the boat

984
01:02:17.159 --> 01:02:18.400
hearing on June tenth.

985
01:02:19.119 --> 01:02:20.480
Not worried about it, no big deal?

986
01:02:20.719 --> 01:02:21.039
Correct.

987
01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:24.880
No, I didn't say that it was no big deal,

988
01:02:25.480 --> 01:02:32.639
but I said that my main concern about those motions

989
01:02:32.719 --> 01:02:38.000
coming up on June to tenth dealt more with the

990
01:02:38.880 --> 01:02:43.639
venue motion than they did with the motion to compel.

991
01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:45.599
I believe is what I said, you saw on this

992
01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:48.239
jury that you didn't testify yesterday that you weren't concerned

993
01:02:48.480 --> 01:02:48.800
about it.

994
01:02:52.159 --> 01:02:55.679
I wasn't overly concerned about it, and I'm sure I

995
01:02:55.800 --> 01:02:59.639
had some level of concern because the venue motion was

996
01:03:00.559 --> 01:03:02.880
it was a it was a big issue in the case.

997
01:03:03.679 --> 01:03:05.519
Well, when you concern enough about it to blow up

998
01:03:05.559 --> 01:03:07.559
on Mark Tinsley at the trial orias conference and say

999
01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:08.079
what are you doing?

1000
01:03:08.159 --> 01:03:12.800
Both No, absolutely, unequivocally never happened.

1001
01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:18.360
If the Pharis fee issue.

1002
01:03:19.480 --> 01:03:24.199
Comes to light on June the seven, You're not gonna

1003
01:03:24.199 --> 01:03:26.599
be able to borrow money from Johnny Parker anymore, are you?

1004
01:03:27.760 --> 01:03:31.199
If the Pharis fee hypothetically speaking, if the Pharis fee

1005
01:03:31.280 --> 01:03:36.760
came to light on June to seventh, well, here any

1006
01:03:36.840 --> 01:03:38.960
point in time, if the Feris fee came to light,

1007
01:03:39.079 --> 01:03:42.559
Johnny Parker would not loan me money. If Johnny knew

1008
01:03:42.639 --> 01:03:47.199
that I had taken fees, I would not have been

1009
01:03:47.199 --> 01:03:48.960
able to borrow money from Johnny Parker.

1010
01:03:49.599 --> 01:03:54.079
So at this point, Waters has finally worked up to

1011
01:03:54.239 --> 01:03:58.239
the events leading up to June seventh, as well as

1012
01:03:58.360 --> 01:04:02.840
the final moments when Maggie and Paul and the aftermath

1013
01:04:04.239 --> 01:04:08.239
of the murders. And it's very telling what Murdall has

1014
01:04:08.440 --> 01:04:12.239
to say about all of this. Here's that club you.

1015
01:04:12.280 --> 01:04:13.760
Got a chance for do that to start up?

1016
01:04:13.880 --> 01:04:14.840
Yes, sir, all right?

1017
01:04:14.920 --> 01:04:16.199
And do you recognize what those are?

1018
01:04:16.440 --> 01:04:16.800
Generally?

1019
01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:19.880
I do? And what are they text between Maggie and

1020
01:04:20.079 --> 01:04:21.800
h and what day did they take place?

1021
01:04:28.159 --> 01:04:30.000
Junius sixth during the sex.

1022
01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:30.599
Twenty twenty one?

1023
01:04:32.280 --> 01:04:34.800
Is that correct? That's correct, yes, sir, all right.

1024
01:04:34.840 --> 01:04:37.000
This time the state would offer states five seventy two

1025
01:04:37.039 --> 01:04:38.960
and outs objection, s.

1026
01:04:38.960 --> 01:04:40.039
Admit without objection.

1027
01:04:42.280 --> 01:04:46.159
All right, tell the jury where were you when these

1028
01:04:46.239 --> 01:04:47.239
sects were taking place?

1029
01:04:48.360 --> 01:04:49.320
I was in the hotel.

1030
01:04:50.199 --> 01:04:51.760
And where what city were you? Then?

1031
01:04:52.039 --> 01:04:57.000
Columbia, South Carolina. I'm not exactly sure where they were

1032
01:04:57.800 --> 01:05:00.920
when they first started, but they would have been somewhere

1033
01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:04.639
between the hotel, a restaurant in the ball field.

1034
01:05:05.199 --> 01:05:05.519
All right.

1035
01:05:05.599 --> 01:05:07.039
But when you send this text on.

1036
01:05:08.920 --> 01:05:12.599
June sixth, eleven forty one, you say, y'all in seat already? Correct?

1037
01:05:13.960 --> 01:05:15.840
Yes, that's what I did say, all right, and they

1038
01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:16.360
say yes.

1039
01:05:16.719 --> 01:05:18.440
Maggie says yes, we like these seats.

1040
01:05:18.559 --> 01:05:21.159
Is that correct? So that's correct. I didn't notice that.

1041
01:05:21.320 --> 01:05:23.079
So at that point in time, they are in the.

1042
01:05:23.119 --> 01:05:29.000
Ballpark, all right. And then you respond better than last

1043
01:05:29.079 --> 01:05:32.840
night they extended check out to one gonna come then?

1044
01:05:33.039 --> 01:05:33.599
Is that correct?

1045
01:05:33.719 --> 01:05:35.079
That's what that text says, yes, sir?

1046
01:05:35.159 --> 01:05:36.320
All right, so you're back of the room.

1047
01:05:36.440 --> 01:05:36.880
Is that right?

1048
01:05:37.079 --> 01:05:37.480
Yes, sir.

1049
01:05:45.960 --> 01:05:49.400
Later on you text after she asked you to bring

1050
01:05:49.480 --> 01:05:52.760
a charger and says Muggy, You text, I'm dreading it.

1051
01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:53.920
See you in a little bit.

1052
01:05:54.119 --> 01:05:54.679
Is that correct?

1053
01:05:54.920 --> 01:05:56.119
That's what I said? Yes, sir?

1054
01:06:01.440 --> 01:06:04.719
She responds don't come, but then asks about the charger

1055
01:06:06.079 --> 01:06:08.559
and says it's hot. Is that correct?

1056
01:06:12.840 --> 01:06:16.239
Yes? I assume you were reading it exactly, so yes, sir.

1057
01:06:18.920 --> 01:06:23.960
She eventually responds, not crowded, but not the place of that.

1058
01:06:24.039 --> 01:06:26.079
Come if you don't feel well, very hot, muggy.

1059
01:06:26.159 --> 01:06:29.119
We are inside, sitting at the bar, very nice indoors.

1060
01:06:29.239 --> 01:06:29.800
Is that correct?

1061
01:06:30.039 --> 01:06:33.760
That's what it says, yes, sir, And then you respond out,

1062
01:06:33.880 --> 01:06:36.320
U by accident, they are making me leave, so I'll

1063
01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:37.599
see y'all on the few.

1064
01:06:37.760 --> 01:06:38.360
Is that correct?

1065
01:06:38.559 --> 01:06:39.199
That's correct?

1066
01:06:40.079 --> 01:06:41.159
And who was making you leave?

1067
01:06:41.239 --> 01:06:44.960
Where it was past checkout time at the hotel.

1068
01:06:47.360 --> 01:06:48.880
After you've gotten an extended check out?

1069
01:06:48.920 --> 01:06:49.239
Correct?

1070
01:06:50.039 --> 01:06:50.679
It appears so.

1071
01:06:51.639 --> 01:06:56.159
And the reality is is that you were in that hotel.

1072
01:06:57.599 --> 01:07:00.920
Suffering from withdrawls when that's going on.

1073
01:07:01.119 --> 01:07:01.679
Is that correct?

1074
01:07:01.920 --> 01:07:03.199
I was beginning to yes, sir.

1075
01:07:04.599 --> 01:07:10.000
And the reality is is that your wife and your

1076
01:07:10.039 --> 01:07:13.320
son were on you at that time period because they

1077
01:07:13.360 --> 01:07:14.199
had found.

1078
01:07:14.559 --> 01:07:16.039
Pills just a few weeks prior.

1079
01:07:18.880 --> 01:07:20.000
No, sir, that's not correct.

1080
01:07:26.639 --> 01:07:33.280
Let's talk about June seventh. Okay, you got up that

1081
01:07:33.440 --> 01:07:36.599
morning or what time do you think you got up

1082
01:07:36.679 --> 01:07:37.639
and left that day?

1083
01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:42.400
After having the benefit of looking at all these records.

1084
01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:46.880
I don't know what time I got up and looking

1085
01:07:46.920 --> 01:07:48.920
at the records, obviously I've been up for a while,

1086
01:07:50.280 --> 01:07:53.559
but it fears I left shortly afternoon.

1087
01:07:54.199 --> 01:07:56.280
Okay, and you went to work?

1088
01:07:56.760 --> 01:07:58.159
I did, yes, sir, And.

1089
01:07:58.280 --> 01:07:59.599
What were you working on at work?

1090
01:08:00.519 --> 01:08:06.280
I was working on this Dominion energy case was primarily

1091
01:08:06.400 --> 01:08:10.079
what I was working on. That we had motions coming

1092
01:08:10.199 --> 01:08:15.079
up later in that week. As I said earlier, it's

1093
01:08:16.279 --> 01:08:20.880
I believed at the time that it was the biggest

1094
01:08:20.960 --> 01:08:26.960
case that I'd ever been involved in, and there were

1095
01:08:27.039 --> 01:08:31.520
motions coming up in that I was bearing. Danny had

1096
01:08:31.600 --> 01:08:35.720
been Danny Henderson, my partner that was helping me with

1097
01:08:35.880 --> 01:08:40.359
this civil case from the boat wreck, had been on

1098
01:08:40.520 --> 01:08:46.159
me about getting a financial statement, and I finished doing

1099
01:08:46.279 --> 01:08:50.760
that so that it could be given to Danny. It's

1100
01:08:50.840 --> 01:08:54.359
primary is what I remember doing. Obviously I talked to Genie.

1101
01:08:57.319 --> 01:09:01.079
But okay, and what times you leave?

1102
01:09:01.159 --> 01:09:05.800
And I'm sure I did some other routine office things,

1103
01:09:05.880 --> 01:09:06.880
but I can't tell you.

1104
01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:09.079
What they are, all right, what times you leave?

1105
01:09:10.119 --> 01:09:13.159
It appears that I left around a little after six

1106
01:09:13.760 --> 01:09:17.319
from the records. I thought i'd left earlier than that,

1107
01:09:17.520 --> 01:09:22.640
But I mean, the records were seemed to be pretty clear.

1108
01:09:23.600 --> 01:09:25.479
And you were, in fact, I think you said in

1109
01:09:25.560 --> 01:09:27.319
both many of your interviews that you were working on

1110
01:09:27.359 --> 01:09:30.840
the boatcase that day as well your financial declaration.

1111
01:09:33.760 --> 01:09:36.680
Yes, I prepared the financial declaration. I didn't do any

1112
01:09:36.800 --> 01:09:46.960
work in this civil case, so my work in that

1113
01:09:49.359 --> 01:09:51.359
is what I did. I prepared the financial statement, which

1114
01:09:51.359 --> 01:09:53.880
took me a little bit of time to get the

1115
01:09:53.960 --> 01:09:57.199
details on that, but I mean that was the work

1116
01:09:57.279 --> 01:10:02.680
I did own in preparation for the emotions coming up.

1117
01:10:02.880 --> 01:10:03.960
And what time did you get home?

1118
01:10:06.079 --> 01:10:07.880
And looking at the records, it looks like I got

1119
01:10:07.960 --> 01:10:11.720
home a little before seven, six forty five, I think

1120
01:10:11.920 --> 01:10:13.319
six forty something.

1121
01:10:14.279 --> 01:10:20.319
Then you and Paul rode the property and you've told

1122
01:10:20.399 --> 01:10:23.239
law enforcement you shot are twenty two.

1123
01:10:24.279 --> 01:10:24.840
That's correct.

1124
01:10:26.439 --> 01:10:30.279
You told law enforcement that you never saw any blackout.

1125
01:10:32.359 --> 01:10:34.119
Did I never see a blackout.

1126
01:10:34.159 --> 01:10:35.600
At that point in time when you and Paul were

1127
01:10:35.680 --> 01:10:36.359
riding the property.

1128
01:10:36.880 --> 01:10:38.439
No, I do not see a blackout.

1129
01:10:45.560 --> 01:10:48.239
Did you tell law enforcement that you and Paul were

1130
01:10:48.279 --> 01:10:49.920
around going around looking for hogs?

1131
01:10:52.479 --> 01:10:58.840
If I said that, and if I told them that,

1132
01:11:00.239 --> 01:11:03.119
you know, you don't look for hogs in the daytime,

1133
01:11:03.680 --> 01:11:06.239
all right? That just the hogs are deep in the

1134
01:11:06.319 --> 01:11:09.039
swamp in the daytime. So I can tell you that

1135
01:11:09.119 --> 01:11:12.239
Paul and I were not riding around looking for hogs.

1136
01:11:12.960 --> 01:11:15.479
But what we were doing is we were going from

1137
01:11:15.520 --> 01:11:18.079
food plot to food plot, and we were looking for

1138
01:11:18.279 --> 01:11:21.079
hogs signs. All right. What a hog will do is

1139
01:11:21.119 --> 01:11:23.520
come out and root and they tear up food plots,

1140
01:11:23.600 --> 01:11:27.159
they tear up, they tear up everything, and so that

1141
01:11:27.399 --> 01:11:30.800
was one of the things we were doing. But we

1142
01:11:30.920 --> 01:11:34.359
were not hog honting. We were not looking for hogs.

1143
01:11:34.840 --> 01:11:38.000
We did not have the three hundred blackout with us.

1144
01:11:38.840 --> 01:11:41.920
Paul didn't have the gun that he the black out,

1145
01:11:41.960 --> 01:11:46.000
but he favored with him while y'all rode the property.

1146
01:11:47.119 --> 01:11:50.239
The gun that's in here, any wifer, There was no

1147
01:11:50.399 --> 01:11:52.279
three hundred blackout with me and Paul.

1148
01:11:52.439 --> 01:11:53.880
All y'all had was a twenty two.

1149
01:11:55.640 --> 01:11:58.479
And that was a twenty two pistol. But we didn't

1150
01:11:58.600 --> 01:12:03.000
have that with us at that time riding the property.

1151
01:12:03.439 --> 01:12:10.840
Right, and you testified you've seen the snapchat video of

1152
01:12:10.920 --> 01:12:11.520
you on the tree.

1153
01:12:11.720 --> 01:12:12.159
Is that right?

1154
01:12:12.399 --> 01:12:14.319
I have seen that, and you don't have to speak

1155
01:12:14.319 --> 01:12:15.439
the time of that video, DDE.

1156
01:12:18.119 --> 01:12:20.920
I don't even know what time that was taken. But

1157
01:12:21.039 --> 01:12:24.760
whatever the gentleman came and testified to I don't dispute that,

1158
01:12:25.039 --> 01:12:25.319
all right?

1159
01:12:26.239 --> 01:12:28.199
And what time?

1160
01:12:30.560 --> 01:12:33.439
Well, let me ask you this, When did you go

1161
01:12:33.600 --> 01:12:37.079
back to the house. Were you with Paul or were

1162
01:12:37.119 --> 01:12:37.760
you by yourself?

1163
01:12:37.880 --> 01:12:40.079
I was by myself when I went back to the house.

1164
01:12:40.159 --> 01:12:43.279
I went back to the house basically when Maggie got there.

1165
01:12:43.760 --> 01:12:47.800
When Maggie got there, all right? And where had Paul

1166
01:12:47.920 --> 01:12:51.359
gone prior to that? Was he back of the house

1167
01:12:51.359 --> 01:12:52.520
already or he came after you?

1168
01:12:54.199 --> 01:12:56.039
Paul was at the shot when I went back to

1169
01:12:56.159 --> 01:12:58.479
the house, all.

1170
01:12:58.439 --> 01:13:00.079
Right, So you beat him to the house. Of what

1171
01:13:00.159 --> 01:13:01.000
you're saying, is that right?

1172
01:13:01.239 --> 01:13:02.279
I beat him to the house.

1173
01:13:02.640 --> 01:13:04.560
You were at the house prior to him getting there?

1174
01:13:05.399 --> 01:13:06.279
Yes, all right?

1175
01:13:06.479 --> 01:13:09.279
And you say Maggie was there at the same time

1176
01:13:09.439 --> 01:13:11.039
or there before you or there after you.

1177
01:13:11.479 --> 01:13:14.680
That's what I'm not absolutely certain about. I believe that

1178
01:13:14.840 --> 01:13:17.640
Maggie came through the kennel entrance, and going back and

1179
01:13:17.720 --> 01:13:20.199
looking at these records and these times, I believe she

1180
01:13:20.319 --> 01:13:22.600
came through the kennel entrance while Paup, Paul and I

1181
01:13:23.159 --> 01:13:28.800
were at shop. But either way, I got to the

1182
01:13:28.920 --> 01:13:34.680
house very shortly after Maggie got there, and I believe

1183
01:13:34.800 --> 01:13:36.720
that she came through, and I believe that I went

1184
01:13:36.840 --> 01:13:37.479
right behind her.

1185
01:13:38.079 --> 01:13:40.119
And when did you take the shower that you've been

1186
01:13:40.439 --> 01:13:42.039
talking about this, Joe.

1187
01:13:44.039 --> 01:13:46.760
I believe when I first went in the house. I mean,

1188
01:13:46.800 --> 01:13:49.079
I would have talked to Maggie for a second, but

1189
01:13:49.199 --> 01:13:51.680
i'd seen her that morning, so I would.

1190
01:13:54.079 --> 01:13:55.079
Left your clothes on the floor.

1191
01:13:55.600 --> 01:13:57.800
I'm not sure it makes sense to me, giving what

1192
01:13:57.920 --> 01:14:05.439
blunc Is said, but I couldn't tell you one way

1193
01:14:05.520 --> 01:14:11.039
or the other. Now, what time was out you think,

1194
01:14:11.960 --> 01:14:13.720
and looking at the records, I think that was a

1195
01:14:13.800 --> 01:14:14.600
little after eight.

1196
01:14:15.920 --> 01:14:18.119
And you're saying Maggie was already there at that point.

1197
01:14:20.560 --> 01:14:21.600
When I got to the house.

1198
01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:25.920
Yeah, And what did you do after that?

1199
01:14:27.039 --> 01:14:29.359
I came back out tat out on the couch to

1200
01:14:29.399 --> 01:14:29.880
eat dinner.

1201
01:14:30.840 --> 01:14:31.840
What bout what time was that?

1202
01:14:33.520 --> 01:14:35.399
A few minutes later? And me didn't take me along

1203
01:14:35.479 --> 01:14:35.920
the shower.

1204
01:14:38.199 --> 01:14:41.880
And you say Paul was already eating at that point

1205
01:14:42.079 --> 01:14:45.800
he was You say he left first.

1206
01:14:48.640 --> 01:14:51.279
What I said is he got up and he finished

1207
01:14:51.359 --> 01:15:00.439
eating and he left our immediate vicinity. Now, I don't

1208
01:15:00.439 --> 01:15:04.600
believe he left at that point, given what I've looked

1209
01:15:04.640 --> 01:15:07.880
at time records, and I believe that he was around

1210
01:15:08.920 --> 01:15:14.600
the house for a little bit longer. And just to

1211
01:15:14.640 --> 01:15:16.039
be clear again, but I didn't see him.

1212
01:15:16.239 --> 01:15:17.800
All of this detail was.

1213
01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:19.920
People were hearing for the first time yesterday, like we

1214
01:15:20.000 --> 01:15:26.159
talked about before. Correct say that again, all of this

1215
01:15:26.279 --> 01:15:28.800
detail that we're going through right now is not anything

1216
01:15:28.880 --> 01:15:30.760
that you related before. We're all hearing this for the

1217
01:15:30.840 --> 01:15:32.319
first time yesterday.

1218
01:15:32.840 --> 01:15:35.399
Jackson, You're honor fifth moment privilege.

1219
01:15:36.039 --> 01:15:36.920
Jackson's overrules.

1220
01:15:38.119 --> 01:15:45.439
So yes, I did not tell law enforcement. Actually I

1221
01:15:45.439 --> 01:15:47.479
don't think law enforcement asked me what I did when

1222
01:15:47.520 --> 01:15:49.920
we first went to the house, but I clearly lied

1223
01:15:49.960 --> 01:15:55.600
to law enforcement about what I said yesterday.

1224
01:15:55.920 --> 01:15:59.039
Okay, And all of this the last time you saw

1225
01:15:59.239 --> 01:16:04.960
your supposedly saw your wife and child, all of this detail, you,

1226
01:16:05.359 --> 01:16:07.479
as a lawyer and a prosecutor, didn't think that was

1227
01:16:07.520 --> 01:16:08.000
important to.

1228
01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:08.720
Offer on your own.

1229
01:16:09.960 --> 01:16:12.319
Well, I think it's important you told this jury how

1230
01:16:12.399 --> 01:16:15.119
cooperative you you've been and how much information you want

1231
01:16:15.159 --> 01:16:17.279
to provide. But you left out the most important parts,

1232
01:16:17.359 --> 01:16:17.680
didn't you.

1233
01:16:18.880 --> 01:16:21.640
I left out I left out that. I sure did.

1234
01:16:22.319 --> 01:16:24.239
You don't consider that one of the most important parts.

1235
01:16:25.039 --> 01:16:34.039
I think it's important, all right, tell me about what

1236
01:16:34.159 --> 01:16:36.920
happens next, tell me about how Maggie and Paul end

1237
01:16:37.000 --> 01:16:38.079
up out down at the kennels.

1238
01:16:40.960 --> 01:16:46.199
I'm still not absolutely certain exactly how they ended up

1239
01:16:46.239 --> 01:16:48.600
at the kennel, but in looking at the time frames

1240
01:16:49.359 --> 01:16:53.840
and looking at the GPS points, I think I pretty

1241
01:16:53.880 --> 01:16:57.239
well no, because I wasn't sure if Maggie had walked

1242
01:16:57.279 --> 01:17:01.199
to the kennel's or ridden to the kennels, and I

1243
01:17:01.279 --> 01:17:08.399
wasn't exactly sure how Papaul got there. But I'm all

1244
01:17:08.479 --> 01:17:11.640
but certain that Maggie and Paul went to the kennel together.

1245
01:17:11.800 --> 01:17:12.159
All right?

1246
01:17:13.319 --> 01:17:14.479
And what was the discussion?

1247
01:17:14.560 --> 01:17:16.760
You said that they were going down there, but you

1248
01:17:16.800 --> 01:17:18.720
didn't want to go, Is that right, Maggie?

1249
01:17:18.800 --> 01:17:20.680
What I said is, Maggie asked me to go to

1250
01:17:20.760 --> 01:17:25.399
the kennel's with her, and I wasn't gonna go. I said,

1251
01:17:25.399 --> 01:17:26.039
I'm not gonna go.

1252
01:17:26.439 --> 01:17:28.600
And how long after she left did you supposed to

1253
01:17:28.680 --> 01:17:29.119
go down there?

1254
01:17:31.560 --> 01:17:33.159
It was very quickly.

1255
01:17:34.399 --> 01:17:37.199
And what did you tell this jury and all these

1256
01:17:37.279 --> 01:17:38.600
new facts as to the reason you.

1257
01:17:38.680 --> 01:17:43.079
Changed your mind? Why'd you change your mind?

1258
01:17:44.000 --> 01:17:47.840
I just had a shower. When you go to the kennel,

1259
01:17:48.479 --> 01:17:51.800
you always end up shot. Dogs are running around. You

1260
01:17:52.000 --> 01:17:56.039
always gonna end up doing more work. All right, it's hot,

1261
01:17:56.560 --> 01:17:59.800
I'd already had a shower. I didn't want to go

1262
01:17:59.840 --> 01:18:00.720
to kennel.

1263
01:18:02.680 --> 01:18:04.840
I understand that, So why's change your mind?

1264
01:18:05.239 --> 01:18:06.479
Because Maggie wanted me to?

1265
01:18:08.239 --> 01:18:10.000
So you thought about it for a few minutes and

1266
01:18:10.039 --> 01:18:11.039
then decided to go down there.

1267
01:18:11.319 --> 01:18:14.319
I don't think I sat and contemplated, am I gonna go?

1268
01:18:14.520 --> 01:18:18.359
Am I gonna go? I think that, like many things

1269
01:18:18.439 --> 01:18:20.079
Maggie wanted me to do, if I didn't do it

1270
01:18:20.159 --> 01:18:21.880
at first, I ended up doing it.

1271
01:18:22.119 --> 01:18:23.960
And you took the golf cart down to the kennel's.

1272
01:18:24.159 --> 01:18:24.680
That's correct.

1273
01:18:24.760 --> 01:18:26.920
How long did that taken? Drive from the house down

1274
01:18:27.000 --> 01:18:28.399
to the kennels in a golf cart?

1275
01:18:29.279 --> 01:18:33.840
You know? And looking at the records from own star

1276
01:18:34.079 --> 01:18:36.319
and all of that, it seems to take about a

1277
01:18:36.399 --> 01:18:40.640
minute in the golf cart. Nope, in the in the suburban,

1278
01:18:41.119 --> 01:18:43.840
so I would think it's probably in looking at those

1279
01:18:43.880 --> 01:18:47.239
speeds over what twenty twenty four miles an hour, I

1280
01:18:47.279 --> 01:18:49.399
would think it takes double that. I think it takes

1281
01:18:49.439 --> 01:18:50.359
a couple of minutes.

1282
01:18:50.119 --> 01:18:51.680
All right, So you'll can see the least a couple

1283
01:18:51.720 --> 01:18:53.920
of minutes to drive down there. I think, yes, in

1284
01:18:54.000 --> 01:18:54.560
a golf cart.

1285
01:18:54.760 --> 01:18:55.279
That's correct.

1286
01:18:59.560 --> 01:19:03.479
When the kennel video was going on, Had you arrived

1287
01:19:03.560 --> 01:19:03.920
before that?

1288
01:19:08.960 --> 01:19:09.960
I believe that I had.

1289
01:19:10.319 --> 01:19:12.319
Okay, how long do you think you had been there

1290
01:19:12.399 --> 01:19:13.239
before that was going on?

1291
01:19:13.560 --> 01:19:18.199
Not long because when I got there, and looking at

1292
01:19:18.279 --> 01:19:25.920
the kennel video, you can see Paul Paul standing in

1293
01:19:26.039 --> 01:19:31.119
the kennel. When I got there, Paul Paul wasn't standing

1294
01:19:31.199 --> 01:19:31.720
in the kennel.

1295
01:19:34.159 --> 01:19:35.359
It wasn't in the kettle anymore.

1296
01:19:35.760 --> 01:19:38.479
Well, he wasn't in the kennel like he is in

1297
01:19:38.560 --> 01:19:42.760
the video, right he's I mean, he's probably and I

1298
01:19:42.840 --> 01:19:45.239
don't know exactly, but I know he wasn't in the kennel.

1299
01:19:45.279 --> 01:19:47.680
He was like in the driveway. He was fooling with cash.

1300
01:19:48.039 --> 01:19:53.720
He was in the driveway, but like close to the kennel,

1301
01:19:54.800 --> 01:19:58.800
but not in the kennel like he is in the video.

1302
01:19:59.560 --> 01:20:04.960
So the video happened after that, according to you, video

1303
01:20:05.039 --> 01:20:07.000
happened after I got after you first saw Paul.

1304
01:20:07.119 --> 01:20:08.640
You're saying he wasn't in the kennel. When did the

1305
01:20:08.680 --> 01:20:09.239
video happen?

1306
01:20:09.640 --> 01:20:10.920
I believed that to be the case.

1307
01:20:11.119 --> 01:20:13.319
Okay, after you had arrived, is that correct?

1308
01:20:13.720 --> 01:20:17.279
Yes? And very shortly after I arrived.

1309
01:20:17.359 --> 01:20:20.000
But after I arrived, all right, And did you tell

1310
01:20:21.399 --> 01:20:23.000
Maggie at that time that you were going to go

1311
01:20:23.079 --> 01:20:23.680
to Almetam?

1312
01:20:24.000 --> 01:20:24.439
I did not.

1313
01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:26.159
Did y'all discuss it at all?

1314
01:20:26.840 --> 01:20:27.760
According to you, to.

1315
01:20:27.840 --> 01:20:30.119
These new factors test to find, I don't believe.

1316
01:20:30.199 --> 01:20:36.600
So. Did you have any conversation with her?

1317
01:20:36.840 --> 01:20:36.960
Oh?

1318
01:20:37.079 --> 01:20:40.359
Yeah, Had you had a conversation Did you have a

1319
01:20:40.399 --> 01:20:44.720
conversation with Paul about the dogs, about Cash's tail prior

1320
01:20:44.840 --> 01:20:45.680
to going down there?

1321
01:20:48.359 --> 01:20:54.920
Prior to going down there? I don't. Did I have

1322
01:20:55.000 --> 01:20:56.760
a conversation with Paul about.

1323
01:20:56.960 --> 01:20:59.159
Talked to him about Cash and some problem with this

1324
01:20:59.279 --> 01:21:00.560
tale prying to going down there?

1325
01:21:00.640 --> 01:21:02.600
Did you have any knowledge of that tire to.

1326
01:21:02.760 --> 01:21:06.239
Going down I'm not sure. As I sit here today,

1327
01:21:06.359 --> 01:21:11.760
I don't recall that. But I don't. I don't, I

1328
01:21:11.840 --> 01:21:12.399
don't think so.

1329
01:21:13.680 --> 01:21:16.319
When you first arrived in the golf cart, where.

1330
01:21:16.199 --> 01:21:16.840
Did you pull up to?

1331
01:21:17.840 --> 01:21:20.640
I pulled up right where Maggie was, which is where

1332
01:21:21.319 --> 01:21:23.880
she was standing on the spot where she could see

1333
01:21:24.039 --> 01:21:28.560
in between the chicken coop and the storage room of

1334
01:21:28.760 --> 01:21:33.279
the kennels where the dogs were back up in those

1335
01:21:33.319 --> 01:21:36.600
planet pines behind the kennels to the left of the

1336
01:21:36.680 --> 01:21:37.479
chicken coop.

1337
01:21:39.239 --> 01:21:43.520
And what did you do after that?

1338
01:21:44.560 --> 01:21:45.600
I went back to the house.

1339
01:21:46.119 --> 01:21:47.760
No, I mean, did you you pulled up? You get

1340
01:21:47.800 --> 01:21:50.359
out of the the uh, the golf cart?

1341
01:21:50.560 --> 01:21:52.159
When I know when I pulled up, I stayed on

1342
01:21:52.279 --> 01:21:53.039
the golf cart.

1343
01:21:52.960 --> 01:21:54.319
And stayed on the golf cart. How long did you

1344
01:21:54.319 --> 01:21:55.119
stay on the golf cart?

1345
01:21:55.520 --> 01:21:59.520
However long I was down there? Then? No, I got

1346
01:21:59.600 --> 01:22:01.039
off to take the chicken from Bubba?

1347
01:22:01.600 --> 01:22:03.560
How long were you down there before you took the

1348
01:22:03.680 --> 01:22:04.079
chicken off?

1349
01:22:05.520 --> 01:22:06.239
Very short time?

1350
01:22:06.720 --> 01:22:06.920
Like what.

1351
01:22:12.840 --> 01:22:13.640
A couple of minutes?

1352
01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:16.520
And what were you doing during the couple of minutes

1353
01:22:16.560 --> 01:22:18.199
before you got over there to deal with Bubba?

1354
01:22:18.520 --> 01:22:19.199
Talking to match?

1355
01:22:19.520 --> 01:22:19.800
All right?

1356
01:22:19.880 --> 01:22:20.920
And what did y'all talk about?

1357
01:22:21.800 --> 01:22:22.239
I don't know.

1358
01:22:23.079 --> 01:22:24.520
You don't remember, no, sir.

1359
01:22:24.640 --> 01:22:29.239
I do know that Maggie was very concerned about Paupaul, and.

1360
01:22:36.039 --> 01:22:38.119
You remember a lot of detail about all these new

1361
01:22:38.199 --> 01:22:39.880
facts that you don't remember what you talked about.

1362
01:22:46.600 --> 01:22:50.800
I don't remember the exact details of what we talked about.

1363
01:22:50.840 --> 01:22:55.119
I believe that at that time we may have talked

1364
01:22:55.159 --> 01:23:01.680
about Paupaul, But I'm not certain.

1365
01:23:03.000 --> 01:23:05.920
Were you withdrawing at this time at this time, No, sir,

1366
01:23:06.119 --> 01:23:07.079
you won't withdrawing at all.

1367
01:23:07.359 --> 01:23:15.239
No, I would only withdraw when I didn't have pills.

1368
01:23:15.960 --> 01:23:20.720
Then you're saying you had pills. Yes, down there for

1369
01:23:20.760 --> 01:23:22.560
a couple of minutes, I think you said, now before

1370
01:23:22.600 --> 01:23:23.800
you get off the golf cart.

1371
01:23:26.399 --> 01:23:27.239
About yes, sir?

1372
01:23:27.359 --> 01:23:28.319
All right, and.

1373
01:23:29.880 --> 01:23:30.920
Where do you go at that point?

1374
01:23:32.119 --> 01:23:33.359
I take the chicken from Bubba?

1375
01:23:33.560 --> 01:23:34.600
All right, so you get up.

1376
01:23:35.600 --> 01:23:39.119
Well, I mean Bubba's you know, Bubba's come out there

1377
01:23:39.239 --> 01:23:41.880
with this chicken. I mean he's showing us, hey, I

1378
01:23:42.000 --> 01:23:48.119
caught this chicken. And I take the chicken from Bubba cart.

1379
01:23:49.159 --> 01:23:51.000
He came up by the golf cart, and he came

1380
01:23:51.079 --> 01:23:53.439
up to Maggie and I which I was on the

1381
01:23:53.479 --> 01:23:55.640
golf cart. She's by the golf cart. I mean, he's

1382
01:23:55.720 --> 01:23:57.920
not coming to the golf cart, but he's coming to us.

1383
01:23:58.279 --> 01:23:59.479
Is this during to come up to the y or

1384
01:23:59.560 --> 01:24:00.640
is this after the cant video?

1385
01:24:02.680 --> 01:24:02.840
Well?

1386
01:24:02.920 --> 01:24:05.600
No, you hear Maggie say he's got a chicken. That's

1387
01:24:05.640 --> 01:24:08.520
what she's talking about. Is Bubba caught a chicken?

1388
01:24:08.720 --> 01:24:10.760
All right? All right?

1389
01:24:10.880 --> 01:24:13.399
So is the cant video still going on? Before you

1390
01:24:13.560 --> 01:24:14.319
go get the chicken?

1391
01:24:15.600 --> 01:24:18.079
I mean you've heard it correct, you've heard in this courtroom.

1392
01:24:18.199 --> 01:24:23.199
I don't know exactly I don't know exactly, but in

1393
01:24:23.680 --> 01:24:26.279
close timing to Bubba coming out of those woods with

1394
01:24:26.439 --> 01:24:29.119
the chicken, I got up and took the chicken from him.

1395
01:24:29.319 --> 01:24:32.199
Okay, let me ask you this, where the dogs.

1396
01:24:34.319 --> 01:24:36.800
Barking and carrying on or going out into the woods

1397
01:24:36.960 --> 01:24:39.279
or acting like they sent somebody was around that they

1398
01:24:39.319 --> 01:24:39.640
didn't know?

1399
01:24:42.560 --> 01:24:44.640
Were the dogs acting like there was somebody around it

1400
01:24:44.720 --> 01:24:45.199
they didn't know?

1401
01:24:45.479 --> 01:24:46.439
Yeah, like dogs do.

1402
01:24:47.880 --> 01:24:49.159
No, they weren't.

1403
01:24:49.279 --> 01:24:52.439
There was nobody there was around that the dogs didn't know.

1404
01:24:54.640 --> 01:24:58.000
Dogs didn't didn't to your indication sense anything out of

1405
01:24:58.039 --> 01:24:59.920
the ordinary. They were just chasing.

1406
01:25:00.039 --> 01:25:04.640
After the beginning, there was nobody felts around.

1407
01:25:05.720 --> 01:25:06.520
Good for them.

1408
01:25:08.319 --> 01:25:09.439
Just since.

1409
01:25:11.600 --> 01:25:13.800
You've heard the kennel video, would you agree with me

1410
01:25:14.039 --> 01:25:18.880
that it lasts for about fifty seconds? I agree with that,

1411
01:25:19.960 --> 01:25:22.359
so it would have ended around eight forty five and

1412
01:25:22.439 --> 01:25:23.199
forty five seconds.

1413
01:25:23.199 --> 01:25:23.960
Would you agree with that?

1414
01:25:25.119 --> 01:25:25.920
I do agree with that.

1415
01:25:26.640 --> 01:25:30.359
Did you have the chicken out of Bubba's mouth at

1416
01:25:30.359 --> 01:25:32.760
the end of the kennel video or did it take

1417
01:25:32.840 --> 01:25:33.399
longer than that?

1418
01:25:34.039 --> 01:25:36.359
You know, I can't remember exactly when in the video

1419
01:25:36.520 --> 01:25:38.880
he came up up with the chicken, but I would

1420
01:25:38.920 --> 01:25:40.479
have had to. I would have had a chicken out

1421
01:25:40.520 --> 01:25:51.159
of his mouth within ten fifteen seconds of Maggie saying,

1422
01:25:52.640 --> 01:25:53.439
he's got a chicken?

1423
01:25:53.800 --> 01:25:55.800
All right? And so then what did you do?

1424
01:25:56.239 --> 01:25:57.239
I put the chicken up?

1425
01:25:57.319 --> 01:25:57.640
All right?

1426
01:25:57.720 --> 01:25:59.279
How long did that take? Did you get out of

1427
01:25:59.279 --> 01:26:01.199
the golf cart to do that? I did, all right?

1428
01:26:01.279 --> 01:26:02.840
And you had to go walk to where it was?

1429
01:26:03.479 --> 01:26:03.680
Well?

1430
01:26:04.279 --> 01:26:08.800
Yeah, I mean it a few feet, but I did that, yes.

1431
01:26:08.680 --> 01:26:08.960
All right?

1432
01:26:09.000 --> 01:26:11.279
So how long did that tag worth? We're at eight

1433
01:26:11.319 --> 01:26:11.800
forty six?

1434
01:26:11.920 --> 01:26:12.880
Now, how long did that take?

1435
01:26:13.000 --> 01:26:13.520
The seconds?

1436
01:26:14.199 --> 01:26:14.800
The seconds?

1437
01:26:15.439 --> 01:26:15.760
All right?

1438
01:26:16.199 --> 01:26:17.199
And what did you do after that?

1439
01:26:18.000 --> 01:26:19.199
Got back on the golf cart?

1440
01:26:23.000 --> 01:26:24.359
And what did you do after that?

1441
01:26:25.199 --> 01:26:25.720
I left?

1442
01:26:26.079 --> 01:26:28.920
You left? Now, I'm going with golf cart and left.

1443
01:26:29.159 --> 01:26:30.880
Well, that's what I was getting ready to say. Did

1444
01:26:30.960 --> 01:26:33.119
I get on the golf cart and leave that second?

1445
01:26:33.279 --> 01:26:35.600
Probably not? But did I get on the golf cart

1446
01:26:35.640 --> 01:26:38.640
and leave very quickly after that? I did?

1447
01:26:38.800 --> 01:26:39.920
Okay, Yeah, I think you're testified.

1448
01:26:40.000 --> 01:26:41.119
Yesterday I got out of there.

1449
01:26:41.319 --> 01:26:41.640
I did.

1450
01:26:44.880 --> 01:26:46.760
Why'd you get out of there so quick, mister Murdock?

1451
01:26:47.800 --> 01:26:50.960
Because it was chaotic, it was hot. Then I was

1452
01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:53.560
getting ready to do exactly what I didn't want to do.

1453
01:26:56.159 --> 01:26:57.800
You're getting ready to do what you didn't want to do.

1454
01:26:58.119 --> 01:27:00.960
That's correct. Yeah, I was getting ready to wet. I

1455
01:27:01.079 --> 01:27:04.000
was getting ready to work. I went back to the

1456
01:27:04.039 --> 01:27:04.760
air conditioner.

1457
01:27:05.800 --> 01:27:07.520
So did you say goodbye?

1458
01:27:08.800 --> 01:27:13.000
According to your new story, did I say goodbye?

1459
01:27:13.319 --> 01:27:13.520
Yeah?

1460
01:27:14.439 --> 01:27:15.880
Did you talk to them at all? Or did you

1461
01:27:16.000 --> 01:27:18.000
just get the chicken? Put it on there, jump on there.

1462
01:27:17.840 --> 01:27:18.520
And take off.

1463
01:27:18.560 --> 01:27:20.760
I wouldn't have just gone off. I mean I would

1464
01:27:20.800 --> 01:27:23.720
have said I'm leaving, okay. Did I say goodbye bye

1465
01:27:23.920 --> 01:27:25.720
and again go ahead? I mean there would have been

1466
01:27:25.840 --> 01:27:31.800
some you know, there would have been some exchange. I'm

1467
01:27:31.840 --> 01:27:32.439
not staying here.

1468
01:27:32.680 --> 01:27:33.600
Well what was that exchange?

1469
01:27:33.640 --> 01:27:35.760
I mean you have you've had such a photographic memory

1470
01:27:35.760 --> 01:27:36.760
about these new stories?

1471
01:27:36.840 --> 01:27:37.000
What what?

1472
01:27:37.319 --> 01:27:37.359
What?

1473
01:27:37.560 --> 01:27:38.640
What happened here?

1474
01:27:40.079 --> 01:27:43.079
It's not I can't tell you the exact words, And you.

1475
01:27:43.119 --> 01:27:44.039
Don't remember.

1476
01:27:45.640 --> 01:27:48.119
Your conversation after you put that chicken up. Did y'all

1477
01:27:48.159 --> 01:27:48.960
talk about the chicken?

1478
01:27:51.159 --> 01:27:52.399
No, I don't think we did.

1479
01:27:52.560 --> 01:27:54.720
Did you talk with Paul about cash as sale.

1480
01:27:55.800 --> 01:27:56.560
After the chicken?

1481
01:27:56.840 --> 01:27:57.039
Yeah?

1482
01:27:57.840 --> 01:27:59.720
No, I know I didn't do that.

1483
01:28:00.119 --> 01:28:02.039
Did you tell Maggie I'm going to go check on.

1484
01:28:02.119 --> 01:28:04.399
Him at that point? No, don't.

1485
01:28:04.720 --> 01:28:07.039
I don't tell Maggie's hide out here. If they gonna

1486
01:28:07.039 --> 01:28:07.319
go back.

1487
01:28:08.960 --> 01:28:11.560
I certainly would have said something to that effect, all right.

1488
01:28:13.199 --> 01:28:16.000
So, unlike everything else for the new story, you just

1489
01:28:16.039 --> 01:28:17.920
can't recall what that would have been.

1490
01:28:18.520 --> 01:28:23.000
Well, you know, I mean you're making that categorization. I

1491
01:28:23.079 --> 01:28:25.399
think there's other things about that that I can't remember.

1492
01:28:25.479 --> 01:28:28.760
But if the question is, can I remember exactly what

1493
01:28:29.359 --> 01:28:36.399
words I used when I gave Maggie some salutation when

1494
01:28:36.439 --> 01:28:38.640
I'm leaving, I can't tell you what those were, all right,

1495
01:28:39.000 --> 01:28:40.760
But it would have been something to the effect of

1496
01:28:41.119 --> 01:28:42.000
I'm leaving.

1497
01:28:41.920 --> 01:28:44.239
All right, okay, but you would con see that there

1498
01:28:44.319 --> 01:28:46.319
was at least some conversation that you would have just

1499
01:28:46.359 --> 01:28:48.640
put the chicken on there and jump ran back to

1500
01:28:48.680 --> 01:28:49.760
the golf cart and taken.

1501
01:28:49.560 --> 01:28:51.359
Off right out talking to Maggie. I would have never

1502
01:28:51.439 --> 01:28:51.720
done that.

1503
01:28:53.239 --> 01:28:53.560
All right.

1504
01:28:53.680 --> 01:28:56.159
So well, let's uh, you want to say, a minute?

1505
01:28:57.239 --> 01:28:59.600
Does that sound about right? A minute for what to

1506
01:28:59.720 --> 01:29:02.359
have just whatever interaction it took for you to then,

1507
01:29:03.079 --> 01:29:04.680
according to your new story, drive.

1508
01:29:04.600 --> 01:29:07.920
Back to No, sir, it wouldn't have taken me a minute.

1509
01:29:07.960 --> 01:29:10.000
It would have been it would have said, It would

1510
01:29:10.000 --> 01:29:13.720
have been I'm leaving, I see you in a minute.

1511
01:29:15.319 --> 01:29:17.159
Okay, So thirty seconds.

1512
01:29:18.239 --> 01:29:20.079
I don't think it would have taken thirty seconds. But

1513
01:29:20.359 --> 01:29:22.640
I mean, I'm fine with you using whatever time you

1514
01:29:22.800 --> 01:29:24.840
want to apply. What I don't think it's asking.

1515
01:29:24.640 --> 01:29:27.119
About real life here and how people interact with one

1516
01:29:27.159 --> 01:29:31.000
and another. Mister Murdoch, I mean, so what you're telling

1517
01:29:31.079 --> 01:29:33.840
this jury I called your fuzzy on these kind of details,

1518
01:29:34.560 --> 01:29:36.720
is that you jetted down the are he dealt with

1519
01:29:36.760 --> 01:29:38.039
the chicken and jetted right back.

1520
01:29:39.119 --> 01:29:43.800
No, sir, no, sir, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't

1521
01:29:43.880 --> 01:29:46.840
jet down there, and I didn't jet back. I got

1522
01:29:46.920 --> 01:29:49.800
up after Maggie asked me to leave, after Maggie asked

1523
01:29:49.840 --> 01:29:52.439
me to go with her, and I didn't. I got up,

1524
01:29:54.359 --> 01:29:58.079
I went and got on a golf cart. I drove

1525
01:29:58.199 --> 01:30:02.159
down there. I did what I did. I said I'm leaving,

1526
01:30:02.319 --> 01:30:05.479
or something to those words, and I went back.

1527
01:30:05.800 --> 01:30:08.960
All right, Well, if it's about eight forty six, If

1528
01:30:09.000 --> 01:30:11.119
the Kennel video ends at eight forty five and forty

1529
01:30:11.159 --> 01:30:14.479
five seconds and it's about eight forty six, we at

1530
01:30:14.560 --> 01:30:16.720
least can see that maybe it was about a minute

1531
01:30:16.800 --> 01:30:18.840
before you got on that golf cart and headed back,

1532
01:30:19.159 --> 01:30:20.439
just reasonable real life.

1533
01:30:20.720 --> 01:30:23.920
Maybe, yeah, I mean, I don't think it was that long?

1534
01:30:24.000 --> 01:30:27.119
But maybe sure? All right, so, but I don't think

1535
01:30:27.159 --> 01:30:30.079
it was that long. I mean, exactly what I thought

1536
01:30:30.199 --> 01:30:32.680
was gonna be going on at that kennel. Why I

1537
01:30:32.720 --> 01:30:35.079
didn't want to go there to begin with, is exactly

1538
01:30:35.159 --> 01:30:37.680
what was going on. Yeah, well I get that and

1539
01:30:37.800 --> 01:30:38.199
I left.

1540
01:30:38.640 --> 01:30:42.600
Are these also convenient facts in your new story that

1541
01:30:42.720 --> 01:30:44.800
have to fit with the timeline now that that evidence

1542
01:30:44.840 --> 01:30:45.600
has been thrown.

1543
01:30:45.359 --> 01:30:45.840
In your face?

1544
01:30:47.000 --> 01:30:48.439
No, sir, does that sound like.

1545
01:30:48.479 --> 01:30:50.359
Real life to you? That you jet down there and

1546
01:30:50.479 --> 01:30:50.880
jet back?

1547
01:30:50.960 --> 01:30:54.279
Mister Murdoch, mister waters As, I just told you. I

1548
01:30:54.359 --> 01:30:56.800
didn't get on my golf cart and jet down there.

1549
01:30:57.479 --> 01:30:58.439
I didn't jet back.

1550
01:30:58.840 --> 01:31:02.399
The reason why you have to about these details, mister

1551
01:31:02.479 --> 01:31:03.239
waters Hagle.

1552
01:31:03.800 --> 01:31:06.399
Just answer before another question presented.

1553
01:31:07.279 --> 01:31:08.720
I'm a smaller question.

1554
01:31:09.479 --> 01:31:13.920
I'm a slower. Are you responding to the last question?

1555
01:31:14.439 --> 01:31:21.000
Yes, sir, I'm responding to your question. And you're using

1556
01:31:21.119 --> 01:31:26.279
words that I'm not using, and and I'm that's your categorization.

1557
01:31:26.479 --> 01:31:28.279
I'm entitled to ask my questions.

1558
01:31:28.000 --> 01:31:32.199
To you, sir, absolutely, and I'm gonna answer them. All

1559
01:31:32.239 --> 01:31:36.920
I'm saying is I'm taking issue with the manner in

1560
01:31:37.039 --> 01:31:40.079
which you're changing what I'm saying.

1561
01:31:40.319 --> 01:31:41.039
And you disagree.

1562
01:31:41.119 --> 01:31:41.960
This is a new story.

1563
01:31:44.560 --> 01:31:45.960
You disagree with that characterization.

1564
01:31:48.319 --> 01:31:51.960
Yes, this this is the first time that this is

1565
01:31:52.039 --> 01:31:53.039
being told openly.

1566
01:31:54.039 --> 01:31:57.000
And you disagree to my characterization that you've got a

1567
01:31:57.039 --> 01:32:00.119
photographic memory about the details that have to fit now

1568
01:32:00.199 --> 01:32:03.680
that you know these facts, but you're fuzzy only other

1569
01:32:03.720 --> 01:32:04.800
stuff that complicates that.

1570
01:32:05.000 --> 01:32:05.720
You disagree with that.

1571
01:32:06.279 --> 01:32:10.159
I do disagree with that. I think that I I

1572
01:32:10.279 --> 01:32:12.720
think did I have a good memory about a lot

1573
01:32:12.760 --> 01:32:13.359
of things on this?

1574
01:32:14.319 --> 01:32:14.800
How about this?

1575
01:32:15.000 --> 01:32:18.439
We've got the Kenel video ending at eight forty five

1576
01:32:18.560 --> 01:32:22.920
forty five, So just to take care of the chicken,

1577
01:32:23.079 --> 01:32:23.640
put it up.

1578
01:32:24.520 --> 01:32:25.960
I was gonna say eight forty seven.

1579
01:32:26.239 --> 01:32:28.319
But somewhere around there, I think you said somewhere around

1580
01:32:28.359 --> 01:32:31.840
there was that fair Just to do whatever you need

1581
01:32:31.880 --> 01:32:33.680
to do and get on that car before you head back.

1582
01:32:35.439 --> 01:32:37.399
The Kennel video ended at eight forty.

1583
01:32:37.239 --> 01:32:41.279
Five, in forty five seconds, at eight forty six.

1584
01:32:41.880 --> 01:32:44.199
It certainly could have been eight forty seven before I

1585
01:32:44.319 --> 01:32:47.000
left out of there, I think it was sooner than that,

1586
01:32:47.079 --> 01:32:47.720
but it could have been.

1587
01:32:48.079 --> 01:32:53.920
That's sixty seconds in seventy five seconds correct after it ends.

1588
01:32:54.600 --> 01:32:57.279
If it ends it eight forty five and forty five

1589
01:32:57.359 --> 01:32:59.800
seconds a minute in fifteen seconds.

1590
01:33:00.039 --> 01:33:02.439
You characterizes yesterday as I got out of there, right,

1591
01:33:03.479 --> 01:33:06.039
that is exactly what I did. So if we're at

1592
01:33:06.039 --> 01:33:09.399
eight forty seven, I think you said benefit giving you

1593
01:33:09.439 --> 01:33:12.119
the benefit of doubt, it's two minutes to get.

1594
01:33:12.079 --> 01:33:15.319
Up back to the house, correct, proximately?

1595
01:33:15.760 --> 01:33:16.079
All right?

1596
01:33:16.279 --> 01:33:18.600
And when you got back to the house, where'd you

1597
01:33:18.640 --> 01:33:19.359
park the golf cart?

1598
01:33:20.920 --> 01:33:23.720
Same place I'd gotten it from, right where Mark Ball

1599
01:33:23.800 --> 01:33:25.680
testified that it was all right?

1600
01:33:26.000 --> 01:33:27.399
And what door did you go in?

1601
01:33:29.039 --> 01:33:30.199
I would have gone in the front door.

1602
01:33:31.960 --> 01:33:33.399
And if you left.

1603
01:33:35.199 --> 01:33:38.399
Around eight forty seven.

1604
01:33:39.800 --> 01:33:41.720
And it took about two minutes to get up to

1605
01:33:41.800 --> 01:33:44.960
the house, what time did that make it, mister Murdock?

1606
01:33:45.359 --> 01:33:47.680
If I left at eight forty seven, and if it

1607
01:33:47.800 --> 01:33:51.239
took me two minutes, that would make it eight nine.

1608
01:33:52.239 --> 01:33:55.680
When you testified you went inside and the TV's are right?

1609
01:33:56.680 --> 01:33:58.640
I did go intide and the TV was on?

1610
01:33:58.960 --> 01:34:02.479
Okay, And you laid down?

1611
01:34:04.159 --> 01:34:04.560
Is that right?

1612
01:34:04.840 --> 01:34:05.159
I did?

1613
01:34:05.600 --> 01:34:07.640
Right before? You said you had been napping for an

1614
01:34:07.680 --> 01:34:08.159
hour or so.

1615
01:34:08.279 --> 01:34:10.840
We're napping that entire time, and now you lay down

1616
01:34:10.880 --> 01:34:12.680
on the couch, that's correct.

1617
01:34:12.680 --> 01:34:13.000
All right?

1618
01:34:13.319 --> 01:34:17.960
And maybe doze for a second, maybe according to your

1619
01:34:18.079 --> 01:34:20.880
new story, how long did you dose?

1620
01:34:22.239 --> 01:34:23.000
If I dozed?

1621
01:34:24.199 --> 01:34:26.680
Extremely short time, extremely short time.

1622
01:34:28.039 --> 01:34:29.800
Because you wouldn't agree with me that at nine o

1623
01:34:29.960 --> 01:34:34.159
two you're up and moving according to the data.

1624
01:34:34.439 --> 01:34:38.159
I agree that according to that data, my phone's recording

1625
01:34:38.239 --> 01:34:41.600
steps at whatever time it is nine o two something.

1626
01:34:45.880 --> 01:34:47.600
How long did it take you if you're at the

1627
01:34:47.640 --> 01:34:50.159
house at eight forty nine, how long before you went

1628
01:34:50.279 --> 01:34:50.920
laid on the couch.

1629
01:34:51.199 --> 01:34:53.560
I would have gone straight to the couch. Probably I

1630
01:34:53.680 --> 01:34:58.159
may have gone about a sink, or you know, I

1631
01:34:58.239 --> 01:35:04.079
may have gotten a spit cup, but it would have

1632
01:35:04.159 --> 01:35:06.279
been basically straight to the couch.

1633
01:35:06.439 --> 01:35:09.479
Straight to the couch, Yes, sir, And you're telling this

1634
01:35:09.600 --> 01:35:13.600
jury that that's what happened. And we were back at

1635
01:35:13.640 --> 01:35:16.159
the house at eight forty nine, and you lay down

1636
01:35:16.159 --> 01:35:17.920
on the couch and does for a second, and then

1637
01:35:18.000 --> 01:35:22.399
you're up with more steps in a shorter time period

1638
01:35:22.439 --> 01:35:23.880
than you had done all day.

1639
01:35:24.640 --> 01:35:27.359
Well, I mean your number is eight forty nine. What

1640
01:35:27.439 --> 01:35:30.920
I'm telling this jury is that I went down there,

1641
01:35:31.439 --> 01:35:34.479
and when I took that chicken from Bubba, I would

1642
01:35:34.520 --> 01:35:36.880
have said something to Mags. I got back on that

1643
01:35:37.000 --> 01:35:40.159
golf cart and I drove back to my house. After

1644
01:35:40.279 --> 01:35:45.119
getting back to my house, I went inside and in

1645
01:35:45.319 --> 01:35:50.520
short order I went to the couch. That's what I'm

1646
01:35:50.560 --> 01:35:51.319
telling this jury.

1647
01:35:51.399 --> 01:35:56.279
Did you go anywhere else in the house, mister Waters, I.

1648
01:35:56.319 --> 01:36:00.680
Can't tell you specifically about that. I don't think so,

1649
01:36:02.079 --> 01:36:02.680
but I may have.

1650
01:36:04.359 --> 01:36:06.560
Did you have that ten blackout in a twelve game

1651
01:36:06.640 --> 01:36:08.800
shotgun on that golf cart when you drove down there.

1652
01:36:09.199 --> 01:36:10.680
No you didn't.

1653
01:36:11.720 --> 01:36:11.760
No.

1654
01:36:12.119 --> 01:36:13.720
Did you see them when you were down there?

1655
01:36:13.960 --> 01:36:14.640
No? No.

1656
01:36:16.199 --> 01:36:18.560
So we got you back around eight forty nine, and

1657
01:36:18.680 --> 01:36:21.600
you're leaving at nine oh two, correct, And you didn't

1658
01:36:21.600 --> 01:36:24.039
see any weapons down there. You just happened to be

1659
01:36:24.119 --> 01:36:25.880
back there. You didn't hear anything at all. Did you

1660
01:36:25.960 --> 01:36:28.600
hear anything at all, mister Murdot during that time period?

1661
01:36:28.920 --> 01:36:28.960
No?

1662
01:36:29.079 --> 01:36:29.479
I did not.

1663
01:36:29.800 --> 01:36:30.199
You didn't.

1664
01:36:30.880 --> 01:36:32.960
Didn't you tell law enforcement that you thought you heard

1665
01:36:33.199 --> 01:36:33.840
them pull up?

1666
01:36:34.239 --> 01:36:37.000
Then you tell law enforcement that I did think they

1667
01:36:37.079 --> 01:36:37.640
had pulled up?

1668
01:36:37.680 --> 01:36:38.000
All right?

1669
01:36:38.039 --> 01:36:39.960
So that was that you did think that?

1670
01:36:40.319 --> 01:36:40.520
Yes?

1671
01:36:40.720 --> 01:36:41.039
All right?

1672
01:36:41.159 --> 01:36:44.119
So now you're saying there was a car pulling up. No,

1673
01:36:44.359 --> 01:36:46.239
you didn't testify to that yesterday, did you in your

1674
01:36:46.279 --> 01:36:47.279
new version of events?

1675
01:36:47.880 --> 01:36:51.520
No? I don't instruct mister. What I don't believe there

1676
01:36:51.640 --> 01:36:52.520
was a car pulling up.

1677
01:36:52.600 --> 01:36:54.880
Okay, but that's what you told law enforcement, didn't.

1678
01:36:55.000 --> 01:36:57.279
No, I told law enforcement that I thought they had

1679
01:36:57.319 --> 01:36:57.760
pulled up.

1680
01:36:58.800 --> 01:37:02.560
All right, But you're saying you didn't hear blackout shots supposedly,

1681
01:37:02.640 --> 01:37:03.800
but you could hear that, correct.

1682
01:37:06.119 --> 01:37:11.159
I didn't say I couldn't hear blackout shots. But I'm

1683
01:37:11.239 --> 01:37:15.439
saying that I thought when I got up from taking

1684
01:37:15.520 --> 01:37:19.119
a nap. If I took a nap, but when I

1685
01:37:19.199 --> 01:37:23.119
got up from laying down, as I was getting ready

1686
01:37:23.680 --> 01:37:26.720
to go to my mom's, there was a point in

1687
01:37:26.880 --> 01:37:30.000
time where I thought Maggie and Paul had come back.

1688
01:37:32.279 --> 01:37:34.479
You also told him that you thought you heard a

1689
01:37:34.560 --> 01:37:36.600
wild cat and maybe it was a person or something

1690
01:37:36.680 --> 01:37:37.399
like that as well.

1691
01:37:38.560 --> 01:37:39.800
No, that's not what I said.

1692
01:37:39.880 --> 01:37:40.560
Why did you say that?

1693
01:37:41.039 --> 01:37:48.159
I said, when I went outside, that there's a house cat,

1694
01:37:48.279 --> 01:37:50.960
that's all what just gone wud And he hangs around,

1695
01:37:51.279 --> 01:37:53.560
He goes from hanging around the shop, goes from hanging

1696
01:37:53.560 --> 01:37:56.119
around the house at different times you might and there

1697
01:37:56.199 --> 01:37:59.479
be times you don't see. And he had been around

1698
01:37:59.520 --> 01:38:05.279
the house, and when I went outside, I believe that

1699
01:38:05.439 --> 01:38:06.199
cat was over there.

1700
01:38:07.760 --> 01:38:09.840
And you made a point of mentioning that law enforcement.

1701
01:38:09.920 --> 01:38:11.720
I never thought it was a person, but.

1702
01:38:11.800 --> 01:38:13.640
You made a point of mentioning back for law enforcement.

1703
01:38:13.720 --> 01:38:18.439
Correct, in the course of discussing it. I did tell

1704
01:38:18.520 --> 01:38:19.920
them that, but.

1705
01:38:20.039 --> 01:38:21.000
You never told them all.

1706
01:38:21.079 --> 01:38:23.640
This new story that you've constructed in light of this trial,

1707
01:38:23.760 --> 01:38:24.239
is I correct.

1708
01:38:25.000 --> 01:38:27.399
I did not tell them that I went to the kennel.

1709
01:38:27.520 --> 01:38:28.359
I lied about that.

1710
01:38:28.840 --> 01:38:31.039
And at the same time, you also looked at this

1711
01:38:31.159 --> 01:38:33.119
jury and tried to tell them that you had been

1712
01:38:33.199 --> 01:38:35.239
cooperative in this investigation.

1713
01:38:39.119 --> 01:38:43.600
Other than lying to them about going to the kennel,

1714
01:38:44.920 --> 01:38:48.079
I was cooperative in every aspect of this investigation.

1715
01:38:49.920 --> 01:38:52.079
Maybe the most important fact of all that you were

1716
01:38:52.119 --> 01:38:56.920
at the murder scene with the victims just minutes before

1717
01:38:56.960 --> 01:38:57.399
they died.

1718
01:39:00.399 --> 01:39:00.520
Right.

1719
01:39:02.119 --> 01:39:03.680
I did not tell them that I went to the

1720
01:39:03.760 --> 01:39:09.119
kennel quote, I did not tell them that I went

1721
01:39:09.960 --> 01:39:16.960
to the kennel unquote that right, there is this whole

1722
01:39:17.720 --> 01:39:21.279
fucking case for the state of South Carolina.

1723
01:39:22.239 --> 01:39:24.039
Think about that. Why lie?

1724
01:39:25.199 --> 01:39:30.079
The absolute worst thing you can do in that situation

1725
01:39:31.479 --> 01:39:45.720
is a lie. So we'll continue with the testimony next week.

1726
01:39:45.880 --> 01:39:49.600
Still a ways to go in this one, and I

1727
01:39:49.680 --> 01:39:52.399
want to thank all of you for listening. I want

1728
01:39:52.439 --> 01:39:54.399
you to check out the Patreon if you have not

1729
01:39:54.640 --> 01:39:55.039
done so.

1730
01:39:55.239 --> 01:39:57.600
We do all kinds of stuff on there. Files.

1731
01:39:57.800 --> 01:40:01.479
You got commercial free early release, this bonus episode. You

1732
01:40:01.560 --> 01:40:04.840
get quarterly gifts if you are top tier patrons. I

1733
01:40:04.920 --> 01:40:07.840
can't tell you how much I appreciate it. I refer

1734
01:40:07.960 --> 01:40:11.560
to those folks as my celebrities. That's exactly what they are.

1735
01:40:12.520 --> 01:40:15.399
And I could not even bring you the podcast i'm

1736
01:40:15.479 --> 01:40:18.359
bringing you today without all of those folks and the

1737
01:40:18.560 --> 01:40:21.880
extra support that they give this show. So thank you

1738
01:40:22.159 --> 01:40:28.359
very much, and until next time for exposed scandalous files

1739
01:40:28.399 --> 01:40:31.119
of the Elite, I'm your host, Jim Chapman.

1740
01:40:31.880 --> 01:40:32.479
Much love,