Dec. 5, 2024

"Murdaugh" Episode Thirteen | Call Your First Witness

"Murdaugh" Episode Thirteen | Call Your First Witness

In this episode of “Exposed Scandalous Files of the Elite”, Jim brings you the first day of testimony in the Murdoch trial, focusing on Sergeant Daniel Green's crucial insights as the first responder to the murder scene. Key exchanges with prosecution...

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Season 1

In this episode of “Exposed Scandalous Files of the Elite”, Jim brings you the first day of testimony in the Murdoch trial, focusing on Sergeant Daniel Green's crucial insights as the first responder to the murder scene. Key exchanges with prosecution and defense attorneys are analyzed, revealing the emotional tensions and procedural challenges faced during the investigation.

#murdaugh #AlexMurdaugh #trial #podcast #conviction #exposed #creightonwaters #cliftonnewman #Southcarolina

Timestamps
02:47 Testimony from Sergeant Green
05:49 Crime Scene Overview
10:06 Victim Assessments
13:36 The Shotgun Incident
18:22 Weapon Discussions
21:59 Evidence Preservation Issues
27:35 Contamination Concerns
37:06 Prosecution's Response
39:48 Tire Track Discussions
43:16 Officer McDowell Takes the Stand
55:44 Shell Casing Identification

The “Murdaugh case details” may be disturbing for some listeners. Exposed: Scandalous Files of the Elite provides the“latest update on the Alex Murdaugh case” throughout its ”Murdaugh” series podcast. Discover “the impact of the Murdaugh trial ” can be followed by subscribing wherever you listen to your podcasts.

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WEBVTT

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Hey everyone, and welcome back to Exposed Scandalous Files of

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the Elite. I am your host, Jim Chapman, and today

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we are back with this thirteenth episode in the Murdall

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series and it's all come down to this, y'all. The

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trial is finally here, and today I'm bringing you the

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first day of testimony. Now, as we have done in

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the past, we're gonna play some clips from the testimony,

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and when there's something poignant to discuss, as I did

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in Murdoll's questioning by police, I'll comment, we'll discuss it,

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and then we'll get back to the testimony. But before

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we get into it, just quickly, I have a new

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Patreon Global Celeb to shout out. And when I say

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global celeb, I mean global celeb. So today I am

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welcoming Miss Nicole Jordan, who is from my absolute bucket

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list place to visit News Zealand. A couple of facts

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about New Zealand now, because of its proximity to the

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coast and to the mountains, it's one of the few

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places in the world where you can lay out at

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the beach and snowski all in one day. And it

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was also the first country to allow women the right

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to vote in the entire world way back in eighteen

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ninety three. So thank you so much, missed Nicole Jordan

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for supporting and welcome to the Global celebs. Now, if

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you want to see what the fun is all about,

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check out the Patreon. We offer commercial, free early releases,

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bonus content, files, pictures, all kinds of things, and we

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would love to have you join us on the Patreon.

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Now let's get into today's episode. And this first clip

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you're gonna hear is from the very first witness called

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by the prosecution, and that was Sergeant Daniel Greene of

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the Collington County Sheriff's Office. And if you will remember,

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he was the first person on the scene at the

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sights of the murders of Maggie and Paul Murdall. I

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played you the entire bodycam footage. So what first and

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leading the questioning is Prosecutor Creighton Waters. And here is

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that clip.

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My full name is Daniel green My last name was

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g R. E. E.

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N E.

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Sargeant green had done today.

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I'm good, all right?

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I tell us where you work, wrentual.

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They call it the County Sheriff's Office.

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Okay, and you're rank a sergeant obviously, that that's correct.

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A right. Tell us just a little bit about yourself.

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Just give us just a little bit of your background

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that led you to your career in law enforcement.

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Floyd greens Sure.

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I went to school here, grew up here, went to

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college at Charleston Southern University. I got a degree in

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social studies education, taught for a little while, and then

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got into law enforcement. It's kind of fell into it

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and liked it. And I've been here since twenty fourteen.

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Okay, you started with the Sheriff's apartment in twenty fourteen.

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That's great.

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And what was your first job that you did or

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how does your career progress.

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I started at the jail.

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I worked there for just over a year, and then

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I was moved to the road patrol. I was on

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road patrol for several years, moved up the ranks to sergeant,

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where I was a roe patrol supervisor, and now I'm

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a detective.

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Okay, when'd you become detective earlier last year?

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I would have been in June of last year.

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Back in June of twenty twenty one, what was your

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job at that particular time with the Sheriff's Department.

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In June of twenty twenty one, I was a road

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patrol sergeant supervisor.

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All right, and explain how that works. What's your exact

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role as a sergeant in a road patrol supervisor.

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So, for the most part, I'm assigned a team consistent

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of three to four deputies, just depends that include a

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corporal as well as several other deputies. My job primarily

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is to supervise them, and they're in a twelve hour shift.

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We answer calls for service.

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Sometimes I'll go with other deputies to calls that require

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more than one officer to be present.

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The majority of my job is supervising what they do.

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And during June of twenty twenty one, were you working

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day shift or night shift or how did that work?

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I was on night shift at that point.

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What are what are the hours of the night shift?

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So we swap every two months, so two months and

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beyond days two months and beyond nights. For those hours,

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it's six am to six pm or six pm to

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six am.

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Okay, and let me take you actually the evening of

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June seventh, twenty twenty one, were you working that particularly evening?

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I was what shift were you working that?

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We're on night shift again, So what hours of that be?

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Working from six pm to six So you went on

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duty at six pms?

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I did, yeah, okay, And you said you're the sergeant.

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What was the do you have a squad that your

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superbosin that are out during that shift? I explained that

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to the jury if you would play.

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So that shift consisted of myself being the sergeant, I

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had a corporal and two deputies working as well, and

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at that point I had a lieutenant who was my

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immediate supervisor.

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He was working as well.

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All right, again, you tell me who those people were.

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Sure?

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So my corporal was Corporal Jenicky, and the two deputies

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working with me were Deputy William Prewitt and Deputy Chad McDowell.

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And the lieutenant was.

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Who Lieutenant Lonnie Needles.

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Did you on the evening of June seventh, twenty twenty one,

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I get a call for service at forty one forty

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seven Mozell Road? I did you remember approximately what town

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that was?

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Later in the evening, several hours into my shift.

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And did you ultimately respond to that location?

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I did?

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What was reported to you that led to the call

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for service dispatch.

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That there was a caller who stated he had found

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his wife and son shot.

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And so tell me what happens. Then you get that report,

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what do you do?

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So I get that call for service, obviously we immediately respond.

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As situations like that, we would respond with lights and

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sirens to get there as fast as quickly as possible.

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You're driving fast to get there.

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Yes, lights are on, siren was on. I think it

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still took me close to twenty minutes to actually get

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to the scene from where I was.

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But you have to ask dispatch to clarify the address.

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I did once I got out there. It's a very

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dark area, very rural area on Mozelle Road.

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There were not a whole lot of residences in the area,

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and I did need clarification once I got out there

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to confirm the address. And then I located the address

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on a mailbox across the street from a driveway.

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So you saw the mailbox and the driveway you entered.

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Is that correct? It's correct, the driveway that you entered

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that had this mailbox. Where did it ultimately lead? What

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structures were there as you pulled.

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Up to the scene. As I pulled down the long driveway.

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When I got to the end of it, there was

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a dog kennel area on the left, as well as

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a shed area on the right, and.

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That was the driveway with the mailbox. Correct, is this

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location where the scene was? Is it in College County?

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It is?

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Tell me just a little bit before we get into

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more specifics. What was the you said it was dark?

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What was the weather like? What was the conditions of

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the scene or the weather and the scene like?

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So quite normal for June around here. It's rather hot, humid.

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It had been raining a little bit off and on

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that evening. It was not raining at the time that

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I actually responded to the scene.

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Now you heard waters ask about the weather. Why does

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that matter? Well, he's making a point that the weather

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is not what you would call perfect for finding evidence

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on a crime scene. It's been raining. Rain washes away evidence.

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Keep in mind, this case is all circumstantial, not a

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whole lot of what you would call direct evidence. So

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he's attempting to establish very early on to the jury

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as to why this is in the weather certainly playing

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a part.

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We continue.

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Okay, were you the first law enforcement officer or first

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responder on the scene?

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Oh?

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Were there others other first responders following close behind.

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The additional first responder that was directly behind me worked

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for Colton County Fire Rescue. He pulled in almost the

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same time I did.

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When you would arrive at the scene, before we talk

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about you know what you actually experienced at this scene.

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What is your main job at a scene like this?

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What are you there to do as a first responder,

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the first officer on the scene.

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So a major crime scene like that, my job is

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to get there, secure the scene. And what I mean

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by secure the scene is ensure that there are no

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individuals there that would potentially cause harm to additional first

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responders coming there, or any witnesses or victims that are

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already on scene, Preserve any evidence that might be there,

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and then wait for investigators to arrive as I gather

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information from anybody else that is already on scene.

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Okay, so you're going to gather basic information, but your

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job's not to investigate it in great details.

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That's correct.

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As you arrived at this scene, again, what had been

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reported to you by dispatch that.

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A male caller had called and said he found his

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wife and son shot.

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And from that report to you, about how long did

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it take you to ultimately make it onto the scene?

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It was roughly about twenty minutes when.

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You arrived on scene. Were you when you said one

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of the things that you do was secure the scene.

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Were you at all concerned about any perpetrator still being

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there at that point in time.

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When I arrived, Not necessarily, just because he had already

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been there for quite a while whenever he called. It

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seemed the way the call came in that he discovered

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them like that, and that there was nobody else there

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other than him and the wife and son.

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So you're the first officer on scene, but you're not

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thinking the perpetrators are still there.

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They just it's something you have to keep in the

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back of your mind, But not necessarily at the forefront.

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You didn't come in hot with guns drawn or anything

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like that. No, when you arrived at the scene and

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you walked and got out of your car, what did

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you see.

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So as soon as I got out of my vehicle,

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I was walking down the rest of the driveway which

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went between the dog kennel and the shed, as I

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could see mister Murdall down at the end of the driveway.

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As I approached toward him, I could see the male

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victim laying on the ground To my left, as well

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as the female victim on the ground to my right.

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The male victim was close to a small shed and

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the dog kennel on the left. It was a large

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deal of blood that had pooled around his body. Same

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thing for the female victim on the right, also a

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large amount of blood around her body.

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As you approached and at first saw the male victim

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and the female victim, what was your assessment? Was there

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any possible signs of life from your.

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My initial assessment was that there was not.

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There appeared to be a large amount of blood around

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each of them, as well as brain matter.

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Did you ultimately have a conversation with mister Murdoch when

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you were out there?

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I did.

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And do you see him here in the courtroom today,

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the person that you talked to you? And can you

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point him out to the jury place?

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Yes, sir, he's right there wearing a dark blue or

237
00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:23.279
black jacket.

238
00:11:23.879 --> 00:11:26.000
Nic In director reflect that he's identified mister murdach.

239
00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:26.480
It does.

240
00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:34.200
When you ultimately approached mister Murdock, what's the first thing

241
00:11:34.200 --> 00:11:34.679
that you did.

242
00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:37.960
The first thing I did was ensure that he did

243
00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:40.440
not have any weapons on him. That's standard procedure for

244
00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:43.639
arriving on a scene like that. Any kind of weapons

245
00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:45.759
that are anywhere on the scene, I want to be

246
00:11:45.799 --> 00:11:48.320
aware of, just so I can know whether they're or not,

247
00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:50.559
and if they are there, who has access to him

248
00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:53.399
at any point? Just and that's for my safety as

249
00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:55.879
well as other responding officers and for anyone else that's

250
00:11:55.879 --> 00:11:56.360
on scene.

251
00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:00.440
Did mister Murdoch give you any possible explanation for when

252
00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:01.240
you approached him?

253
00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:04.039
His immediate reaction was to start telling me about an

254
00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:07.360
incident that had happened with his son, with a boating accident.

255
00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:10.440
With a boating accident, sir, Had you asked him anything

256
00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:10.919
about that?

257
00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:11.360
I did not.

258
00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:15.919
You ultimately Were you wearing a body worn camera that particular?

259
00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:23.559
I was, And you ultimately had a conversation with mister

260
00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:25.799
Murdoch for extended a fairly extended period of time. Is

261
00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:26.240
that correct?

262
00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:26.759
That's correct.

263
00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:32.320
Did you ever see any tears in your interactions with

264
00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:32.960
mister Murdoch.

265
00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:34.879
He did not appear to be crying. He was upset,

266
00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:37.039
but I did not see any visible tears.

267
00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:43.879
Did mister Murdock tell you that he had any sort

268
00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:44.399
of fire off?

269
00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:47.080
He did. He stated that he had.

270
00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:53.519
Left from that scene, went to the residence, grabbed a

271
00:12:53.559 --> 00:12:56.240
shotgun from that residence, and then brought it back because

272
00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:58.080
he felt like he needed to have it just in

273
00:12:58.080 --> 00:12:59.919
case something else were to happen.

274
00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:02.320
He told you he had gone back to the residents

275
00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:05.440
after finding the victims to get that gun he did. What,

276
00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:07.919
if anything, did you do once he told you that

277
00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:09.440
he had gotten a gun.

278
00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:12.240
First he pointed to or pointed out where the gun was.

279
00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:14.679
It was leaning against the vehicle that he was driving

280
00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:17.960
at the time. I could see that it was a

281
00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:20.960
camouflage shotgun. I spoke with him for a few more minutes,

282
00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:24.679
and just based off of how nervous he was acting

283
00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.919
and anxious and upset, I decided it was in everyone's

284
00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:32.000
best interest to get that shotgun and secure it in

285
00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:34.080
my vehicle so that no one else had access to it.

286
00:13:36.519 --> 00:13:40.840
Okay, so you put that shotgun on your vehicles that correct.

287
00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:43.320
What did you ultimately do with that shotgun? Did you

288
00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:45.519
later turn it on over to additional law enforcement?

289
00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:47.679
Yes, after it was secured in my vehicle. Once SLED

290
00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:51.039
arrived on scene to do their further investigation, it was

291
00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:52.279
then turned over to slid.

292
00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:57.679
Now at this point, Waters produces the gun that Alex

293
00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:02.519
Mardall went left the scene, retrieved from his house the shotgun,

294
00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:05.600
and then brought back to the scene, and he has

295
00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:10.759
Sergeant Green identified. And he also plays the full bodycam footage,

296
00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:13.799
which I already played that in a prior episode, so

297
00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:16.039
I'm not gonna do it here. And then it's Dick

298
00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:20.159
Harpootlian's turn to cross examine Sergeant Green.

299
00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:22.039
Steph Green.

300
00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:28.919
For my own edification. I'm curious. I have called over

301
00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:31.960
several weeks, left your voicemail for you to call me

302
00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:33.440
back and talk with have I not?

303
00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:35.000
I haven't received them.

304
00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:36.919
Christmans, you don't check your voicemails.

305
00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:40.559
Did you call my cell phone? No?

306
00:14:40.759 --> 00:14:41.679
I called your offer.

307
00:14:42.039 --> 00:14:42.879
Okay, I don't bet you.

308
00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:44.080
Okay.

309
00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:46.240
This possibly sets you to the wrong one. I don't know.

310
00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:52.240
But you've spent an extensive amount of time talking to

311
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:54.279
mister water to about your testimony.

312
00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:54.120
Eddie not.

313
00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:57.639
I've spoken with him a few times, yes, how many times?

314
00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:02.360
Are three? Or four? Maybe at least?

315
00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:06.200
And as he reviewed with you the points he was

316
00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:06.919
trying to make.

317
00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:11.720
We've discussed the five camera footage ex sense of the right.

318
00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:17.399
So here Harpoolian is making a huge point of the

319
00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:22.120
fact that Green would not call him back, which is

320
00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:25.360
a huge point. The defense attorney has a right to

321
00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:29.559
speak to the detective just as the prosecution does, and

322
00:15:29.720 --> 00:15:32.080
what he's trying to do is put the thought in

323
00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:35.639
the jury's mind, just playing a little seed, that the

324
00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:40.039
sergeant was ducking him because he was trying to hide something,

325
00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.720
or he was trying to give the prosecution some sort

326
00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:45.919
of advantage. Pretty smart defense tactic.

327
00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:46.399
There.

328
00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:50.559
We continue, Let's let's proceed on. Let's see if I

329
00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:56.120
can quarify a couple matters. Let's talk about this shotgun.

330
00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:04.440
You this is the shotgun that mister Murdoch was caring

331
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:06.960
for had leaning up a car against the car when

332
00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:07.360
you got there.

333
00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:09.320
Is that correct? It was leaning up against that vehicle.

334
00:16:09.399 --> 00:16:10.919
Yes, And.

335
00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:17.639
According to what you testified to just a moment ago.

336
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:22.799
These are the shells. The chain of custody, punched shotgun

337
00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:24.879
and the shell they went together.

338
00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:28.639
Whenever I released the shotgun to the sled agent who

339
00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:31.600
took possession of it, I was unaware of any shells

340
00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:33.120
that may have been inside of it at the time

341
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:35.720
that it was handed over. That was what was discovered

342
00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:37.320
inside the gun, is my understanding.

343
00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:47.159
Yeah, where did that change of Okay, what you published

344
00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:48.399
to the jury pollution.

345
00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:53.840
You would like me to read it?

346
00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:59.919
Yes, the Camo Binelli's Super Black Eagle three twelve gage shotgun,

347
00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.279
serial number U five seven three two one zero E

348
00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:09.000
one seven one unfired shot shell, twelve gauge Federal one

349
00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:11.640
unfired shot sholl Winchester sixteen gage.

350
00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:15.440
Okay, so there's a twelve gay shell and a sixteen

351
00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:20.880
gage show yes, twelve gay shotgun. Yes, maybe way beyond

352
00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:24.759
your experience. But can you fire a sixteen gauge shotgun

353
00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:26.640
shell from a twelve gauge shotgun?

354
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:30.799
I wouldn't recommend trying it. Recommend what I would not

355
00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:32.759
recommend trying it? I don't know that it would actually

356
00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:33.240
work or not.

357
00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:37.599
And it resolved in damage to the person trying to

358
00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:38.319
fire the shot, that.

359
00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:39.279
More than likely.

360
00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:41.000
True.

361
00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:45.720
That objection's all ruled, so you would not recommen.

362
00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:48.519
You could actually harm your shelf. It could blow off

363
00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:50.880
if you pulled the trigger on a sixteen gauge a

364
00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:51.839
twl gate shotgun.

365
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:53.680
I've never tried it, nor seen it tried, so I

366
00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:54.240
don't I don't know.

367
00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:57.160
You don't do that because you get that harm do

368
00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:03.160
it right? It's possible, So this shotgun according to shating

369
00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:05.680
of evidence you've just read at a sixteen gage and

370
00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:06.559
tauel gage.

371
00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:12.839
Correct, and was leaning up against the call it was

372
00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:14.960
the second was Now I'm sort of interested.

373
00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:15.480
Is to.

374
00:18:17.319 --> 00:18:24.079
Sure, I'm sort of interested as to why, Well, let

375
00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:27.880
me use cut this, Jason, and there's discussions on this take.

376
00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:30.640
We'll make it up that there was a theory that

377
00:18:30.759 --> 00:18:33.799
Paul had shot his mother and then shot himself.

378
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:35.079
Is that correct?

379
00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:39.759
That's out on the scene. Yes, she had been shot

380
00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:45.559
multiple times, and he had been shot with a shotgun.

381
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:51.079
At least one of the shots we all believe was upward.

382
00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:53.079
That's why his brain for all of the ceiling.

383
00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:55.319
That part I don't know. I knows involved in.

384
00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:57.880
That part of saying at the scene, I.

385
00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:00.720
Did not discuss anything being shot upward. I don't recall

386
00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:01.319
saying that.

387
00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:06.480
Did you hear discussions to that of your fellow officers.

388
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:09.319
Of a shot being fired upward? That's what it looked

389
00:19:09.319 --> 00:19:09.880
like they were saying.

390
00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:14.200
Is and further, I think you are in front of

391
00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:16.920
you one of the officers saying that brains are on

392
00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:19.599
the ceiling, there's blood all over the place.

393
00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:19.960
Correct.

394
00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:26.799
I don't recall them saying brain was upward. I don't recall, and.

395
00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:34.359
I'm further you as you're discussing this with them, indicate,

396
00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:49.519
let me make sure I get this correct. You indicate

397
00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:52.200
there are multiple or someone indicates to you there are

398
00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:57.119
multiple blackout rounds around Maggie's body and in the vicinity.

399
00:19:57.160 --> 00:19:59.200
Correct, not rounds but shellcasings.

400
00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:03.119
All right, shellcase. Now let me ask you this. When

401
00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:05.799
you got there, didn't the fire chief and the fire

402
00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:07.640
department arrived before you did?

403
00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:10.160
No, sir, I was first unseen. Okay?

404
00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:11.440
Do they arrive while you were there?

405
00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:14.519
The one of the fire rescue workers, I believe it

406
00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:15.319
was Barry mccroy.

407
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:18.640
And when you got there, we hear this unidentified person,

408
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.640
and in your notes you indicate it was the fire chief.

409
00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:25.680
I believe it indicated to you pointed out to you

410
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:28.279
tire tracks, and you went over and looked at those

411
00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:32.200
tire tracks, and there were multiple tire tracks coming and going.

412
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:32.519
Correct.

413
00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:34.880
I don't know that someone indicated them to me.

414
00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:36.079
I believe I just saw.

415
00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:42.839
Them, okay. And what did you do to preserve those

416
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:45.119
the tire tracks?

417
00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:45.480
Nothing?

418
00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:50.359
And you certainly are not an expert in tire track

419
00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.359
I'm not so you couldn't tell what was multiple vehicles

420
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:57.480
or one vehicle. No, and it may have been multiple vehicles,

421
00:20:57.720 --> 00:20:59.759
may have been. You take pictures of the track.

422
00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:04.119
I did not take any pictures of the scene. No, sir,

423
00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:04.720
that's not my job.

424
00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:07.039
You tell them about the tracks?

425
00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:08.359
No, sir, not my job.

426
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:11.000
Do you regret not doing it?

427
00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:13.559
It's not part of my job description.

428
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:16.319
But what your job to even tell them there were

429
00:21:16.359 --> 00:21:19.640
multiple tire drives if it had come up, if I

430
00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:24.200
had been asked, yes, And in addition to that, since

431
00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:27.440
they were not secured in any way, multiple vehicles, law

432
00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:29.680
enforcement vehicles and others drove over those.

433
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:31.279
Tracks, that's possible.

434
00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:32.680
I wasn't over there the whole time to know what

435
00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:34.920
kind of vehicles were driving in the area.

436
00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:39.599
Well, by the time Sweed got there, did you strike

437
00:21:39.640 --> 00:21:43.480
that you never took sled over and pointed out tire tracks?

438
00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:44.880
Not to my recollection, I did not.

439
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:48.039
Is there's somebody there with your department that should have

440
00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:48.400
done that.

441
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:51.440
I have no idea what they do with their job

442
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:55.640
descriptions as far as what they point out to additional investigators.

443
00:21:55.960 --> 00:21:59.920
Did somebody from fire and rescue point out footprints?

444
00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:02.839
I believe on my body camera there is a fire

445
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:04.519
riskue individual pointing out some footprints.

446
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:06.319
Okay, did you take pictures of those?

447
00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:06.880
I did not?

448
00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:08.880
Did you tell about I.

449
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:11.759
Didn't now a couple of things that bothered me here

450
00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:16.160
with Sergeant Green's testimony, which I do feel HARPOOLI and

451
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:20.559
did a great job of bringing up first those tire tracks.

452
00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:25.480
I didn't care for Sergeant Greens. It's not my job

453
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:30.160
and not in my job description comments. I just didn't

454
00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:32.720
care for that. I mean, if you see evidence on

455
00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:37.200
a scene and detectives show up, you definitely should point

456
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:41.599
that out in my opinion, but we continue by our.

457
00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:44.839
Rescue person satisfy to you, I believe agreed with many

458
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:49.039
set of prints behind the trailers. If you were told

459
00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:53.039
publishing again this time not publishing an askey.

460
00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:57.359
Did my object. I haven't heard a question yet.

461
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:02.559
I like to make one. Were you told by fire

462
00:23:02.599 --> 00:23:05.640
and Rescue there's a set of prints behind the trailer?

463
00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:06.920
Yes?

464
00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:19.440
Okay? And did he tell you that they attempted to

465
00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:21.680
not disturb those footprints in any way?

466
00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:24.160
I don't recall exactly what was said.

467
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:33.480
Let me further ask you. You asked, mister Murdall, we've

468
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:36.279
heard this on the tail he talked about the tire

469
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:39.680
tracks coming and going, and he told you those weren't

470
00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:43.039
his tire tracks. Correct, He did say that they were not, Okay,

471
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:57.480
And further, he indicated to you, mister Murdad did that

472
00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:00.279
he felt this was related to the boat case. You

473
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:02.400
indicated you knew about the boat case. You've read about

474
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:03.000
the boat case.

475
00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:04.000
That's correct.

476
00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:07.119
And in the boat case, Paul had been charged with

477
00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:10.240
three counts of felony by killing a young girl and.

478
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:13.599
Wounding two others. Correct, don't. I don't know much details

479
00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:15.599
about that case. I really don't know, Okay.

480
00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:18.400
But mister Murda indicated to you that the brets made

481
00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:22.400
against Paul he did, and that he'd even got in

482
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:23.480
a fight once about it.

483
00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:25.440
I believe you said, punched.

484
00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:30.160
Punch, okay, and so on the scene, he believed that

485
00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:35.839
Paul's death was connected to someone angry about the boat case.

486
00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:36.200
Correct.

487
00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:37.880
Back to that, your honor, as to what he believed,

488
00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:42.400
asking when is what another first believed?

489
00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:46.279
On the scene, mister Murda indicated to you he thought

490
00:24:46.359 --> 00:24:50.640
the death of his son was related to his son's

491
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:54.680
involvement in the death of the youngly and the injury

492
00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:55.839
of two others in the boat case.

493
00:24:55.880 --> 00:24:58.119
Correct, it appeared that that's what he was getting at.

494
00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:06.960
Yes, And that's on the trend on the on the tape. Now,

495
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:15.759
let's talk a little bit about it. The preservation of

496
00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:26.279
the crime schae What did you do other than put

497
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.759
yellow tape up to preserve crime schaine.

498
00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:34.359
That is about the extent of my job is to

499
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:36.319
put up the tape and make sure people that don't

500
00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:37.519
need to cross it don't cross it.

501
00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:43.480
And I then there were officers walking around putting little

502
00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:47.519
pieces of tape near shellcasing those one officer doing that, Yes,

503
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:51.359
And in the process of doing that, And I didn't

504
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:52.559
see any lights other than.

505
00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:55.480
Maybe a flashlight. Were there any did y'all put up

506
00:25:55.480 --> 00:25:59.920
any sort of high intensity lights so people make sure

507
00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:01.519
they were stepping on something in the dark.

508
00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:04.079
At that point, there was no light, no additional lighting

509
00:26:04.119 --> 00:26:04.759
that had been put up.

510
00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:07.200
Now, you and your officers were walking through that entire

511
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:09.680
area exact correct, we're walking in the area?

512
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:13.359
Is now a classic tactic here, just trying to prove

513
00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:17.079
contamination to the crime scene. Standard stuff to put a

514
00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:20.799
little doubt in the mind of the jury that something

515
00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:25.400
could be a mess. Next, Harpootlan shows some pictures of

516
00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:29.400
Paul's body in Maggie's body and continues to hammer down

517
00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:31.480
that contamination of the crime scene.

518
00:26:31.960 --> 00:26:32.799
Here's that clip.

519
00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:36.440
So as you look at this, I want to make

520
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:42.400
sure I understand one of Paul's feet is still inside.

521
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:44.240
This is the feed room behind him, correct?

522
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:50.960
Yes, man, this is his.

523
00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:55.400
Head bless of blood, and this would be a part

524
00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:56.799
of his brain lying next to him.

525
00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:58.799
Correct. I don't know if that's part of his brain

526
00:26:58.920 --> 00:26:59.079
or not.

527
00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:07.799
All right, So it's fair to say you didn't know

528
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:09.839
whether that was part of his brain when you first

529
00:27:09.880 --> 00:27:12.000
saw him. He didn't know what it is. A catastrophic

530
00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:13.640
and he was dead. Oh did you?

531
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:15.480
It was very clear that it was catastrophic.

532
00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:29.759
Okay, that's fair. Now when show when you came upon

533
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:34.079
this scene, clearly this feed room was part of the

534
00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:34.640
crime scene.

535
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:34.960
Correct.

536
00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:43.200
Yes, Now you're taught to keep the crime scene Christine correct.

537
00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:44.400
As Christine as possible.

538
00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:46.920
Yes, there was no reason for you to go in.

539
00:27:46.839 --> 00:27:49.039
There, was there me at the time? No?

540
00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:52.359
Okay, was there any reason for the police before the

541
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:54.519
swect crime folks showed up, was there any reason for

542
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:55.400
you all go in there?

543
00:27:58.440 --> 00:27:59.799
There's no reason for me to go in there, I

544
00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:02.119
can speak if there was a reason for another officer to.

545
00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:02.640
Have gone in there.

546
00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:04.319
Well, let me ask you this. Did y'all have any

547
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:09.599
sort of prime scene expert at with you that night?

548
00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:11.119
Some of the processes crime.

549
00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:14.200
Scenes investigators do process crime scenes.

550
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:17.039
Do you remember going in that.

551
00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:20.680
I don't remember if I did specifically, or but you

552
00:28:20.680 --> 00:28:21.200
shouldn't have.

553
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:24.400
If you did, it's not to say that I shouldn't have.

554
00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:26.319
If there was something that needed to be done in there, then.

555
00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:29.319
Yes, I guess what I'm getting at is I think

556
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:30.960
one of the and you would agree with me, one

557
00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:34.279
of the cardinal rules of a prime scenes keep it pristine,

558
00:28:34.359 --> 00:28:37.319
don't walk over things trying to preserve tire tracks, get

559
00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:41.359
pictures of them, footprints, all those sorts of things with

560
00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:44.319
somebody with the officers with you. Were you in charge

561
00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:44.920
of the scene.

562
00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:47.079
I was in charge of the deputies that were under

563
00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:49.839
my immediate supervision until someone higher than me had arrived

564
00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:50.400
on scene.

565
00:28:50.759 --> 00:28:55.440
And were those deputies directed by you or anyone to

566
00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:59.839
do something to preserved the tire tracks pictures, pouring them all,

567
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:00.799
cover them up.

568
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:02.720
I did not give anyone that instruction.

569
00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:06.359
Though, so you didn't do that. In terms of Paul

570
00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:12.079
where Paul was laying, was anybody instructed, you know, put

571
00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:15.000
according around him. There's no reason to go into the

572
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:18.039
feeding them. There's no reason to do anything of Trusia

573
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:23.279
until the swed crime scene process is now on the

574
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:23.720
way at.

575
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:25.279
This point, right, I believe they were?

576
00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:27.799
Yes, And can you identify this for the jury point

577
00:29:28.599 --> 00:29:32.920
that picture? It's Maggie Murda, that's correct.

578
00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:37.640
And by the way, when you saw her from I

579
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:41.079
mean the parents that she was deceased, do you believed?

580
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:42.960
I mean, but you have you ever seen a dead body?

581
00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:44.160
I have seen multiple?

582
00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:44.480
Yes?

583
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:45.960
Many? Right, Yes, so.

584
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:48.160
You're sort of an expertis area who dead?

585
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:48.519
Do not?

586
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:51.960
Who want to get ems there to check them out?

587
00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:52.240
Or not?

588
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:57.079
Correct? You take that call off? Yes, but you could

589
00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:04.000
understand obviously Alex Murdadd's concerned that they might be aligned

590
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:07.160
that maybe maybe I mean, you're not saying that he

591
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:10.200
shouldn't be concerned if somebody checked out both Maggie and

592
00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:12.599
Paul to make sure make sure they were dead.

593
00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:14.400
Right, He was very concerned about that.

594
00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:22.079
Yes, again, now has two Magie murdod We see these numbers.

595
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:24.240
Did y'all do these numbers or were they done after

596
00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:24.920
y'all were there.

597
00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:27.400
I don't know when those numbers were done. They were

598
00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:31.839
not placed by myself, forty or gene. I can't say

599
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:32.319
that for sure.

600
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:34.640
Certainly we see that in the video that they're putting

601
00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:38.559
down yellow tape. They're not putting these down, correct.

602
00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:38.839
That's correct?

603
00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:42.839
Now, you also, according to the video, we saw a

604
00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:47.599
number of your officers are walking around marking or cartridge

605
00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:50.640
a jar, right they were? Did they pick any of

606
00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:51.039
them up?

607
00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:52.559
No? Not to my knowledge.

608
00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:54.240
Later on we see.

609
00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:56.640
Them talking to you and others on the video where

610
00:30:56.680 --> 00:30:59.839
they're saying these routes came from a black out.

611
00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:03.400
There for blackout, three hundred blackout? Yes 're right?

612
00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:06.680
I mean did they get down on their hands and

613
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:07.359
knees and look?

614
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:09.079
Or I mean did they You would have to ask them.

615
00:31:09.079 --> 00:31:10.799
I don't know what they did to know that they

616
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:15.160
were three hundred blackout routes.

617
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:19.720
Well, who would who would have? Who are those officers

618
00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:24.279
that were wrong walking around her without a light on them,

619
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:27.400
perhaps stepping on?

620
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:28.720
Correct?

621
00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:33.000
Were those w McDowell and deputy crew were both in

622
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:33.480
that area?

623
00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:36.079
Were they doing that pursuing to your instruction?

624
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:38.759
They were not specifically instructed to do it.

625
00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:40.839
They just took the initiative to do it.

626
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:44.400
Did you in any way have your man or women

627
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:49.000
put protective gear on their feet? I saw you put

628
00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:51.359
gloves on it, But did they did they put anything

629
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:55.680
to insulate them sell from contaminating the scene.

630
00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:57.599
On their feet?

631
00:31:57.720 --> 00:31:57.759
No?

632
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:05.079
In many instances, departments around the country have people thress

633
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:08.359
in a gown to keep their date, DNA their hair

634
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:11.079
from contaminating the scene. Do you do that?

635
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:15.799
We do not unrope patrol with Calton County as standard practice. No,

636
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:18.680
you do not, not a standard practice.

637
00:32:18.680 --> 00:32:20.200
No, have you ever done that?

638
00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:21.160
I have not.

639
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:23.920
Have you ever had something covering your feet when you're

640
00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:24.279
walking on a.

641
00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:26.839
Crime sam, I couldn't tell you that for sure.

642
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:31.079
Now if we later on, fine, And did you notice

643
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:33.759
bloody footprints? Well, first of all, did you notice bloody

644
00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:35.799
footprints inside the feed room?

645
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:39.200
I don't remember seeing any. I don't remember seeing any

646
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:40.039
bloody footprints.

647
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:43.839
Okay, if there were bloody footprints in the feed room,

648
00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:45.960
could they have been created by you or your men?

649
00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:49.240
They could have been created by anyone walking in that area.

650
00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:51.200
Sort, and you're walking in there or your men are

651
00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:51.759
walking in there?

652
00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:52.759
Correct? Yeah? Correct?

653
00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:59.119
And you think that's standard operating procedure, Will.

654
00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:02.839
You do your best not to contaminate anything, and this

655
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:07.160
is your best. What you're looking at right now is

656
00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:10.279
standard procedure to walk.

657
00:33:11.240 --> 00:33:15.559
In an area. It's where there's blood, where there's brain matters,

658
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:18.640
where there's and I believe there's wadding ling on the floor.

659
00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:25.240
I don't recle, but you would agree with me that

660
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:28.680
you have these procedures so that you don't contaminate the

661
00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:31.559
crime scene, so that you don't destroy evidence like those

662
00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:36.359
tire tracks or those footprints, or leave your DNA or

663
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:45.000
in some way alter the sea so that, if I mean,

664
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:47.359
you would agree with me, so that let me finish

665
00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:51.839
the question, so that if there is exculpatory or inculplatory

666
00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:55.640
evidence that would help you find the perpetrator and prosecute them,

667
00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:59.319
or evidence that would clear somebody that was destroyed. Some

668
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:03.599
of that was destroyed that night because you, your department,

669
00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:08.480
and maybe even sweat didn't preserve that evidence. Isn't that correct?

670
00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:11.400
I'm not sure if I fully understand your question.

671
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:15.679
The question is this, if you were if you are

672
00:34:16.280 --> 00:34:21.079
a spoilating your standing, your men are standing in the spot,

673
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:27.000
and there was evidence there or the tire tracks that

674
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:32.840
weren't preserved, or the footprints that weren't preserved. If that

675
00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:38.880
evidence could either incriminate somebody or exculpate somebody.

676
00:34:38.679 --> 00:34:42.079
Could correct could Yes, that's why you don't do this, right,

677
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:45.119
That's why you don't contaminate the evidence.

678
00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:45.480
Correct.

679
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:51.320
Well, I think in that exchange, are Poolan definitely won.

680
00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:55.639
He nearly got Sergeant Green to admit that the crime

681
00:34:55.679 --> 00:35:00.000
scene was contaminated. Say what you want about the defense,

682
00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:04.519
but Harpootlin is a damn good defense attorney. We continue.

683
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:05.360
That's correct.

684
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:10.639
You put the yellow table around the panel, right, we

685
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:12.079
put it around the whole area.

686
00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:14.719
Did you put it so that folks couldn't drive in

687
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:15.159
and out?

688
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:17.679
They were not to go past where my vehicle was

689
00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:19.679
parked to believe that was the extent of the yellow table.

690
00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:22.960
But between your vehicle and the entrance, there was none

691
00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:23.880
of those none of those.

692
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:25.559
Tire track entrance of.

693
00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:30.079
The property. That if somebody had driven into the.

694
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:31.920
Property, you mean from the main road.

695
00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:34.920
Of Mozillam, the main road, all all the vehicles were

696
00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:36.400
coming in on that driveway.

697
00:35:36.039 --> 00:35:41.679
Right, So if somebody had come in and left, who

698
00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:44.519
committed the murders? Whatever tire tracks that were left were

699
00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:47.119
obliterated by your men. Is that right?

700
00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:48.519
It's possible.

701
00:35:56.199 --> 00:36:00.199
Were you there with a corner right.

702
00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:01.719
Given my extent at the time there, I would assume so,

703
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:02.159
But I.

704
00:36:02.119 --> 00:36:06.880
Don't remember the corn I may have, I don't remember.

705
00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:09.719
Specifically apparently recording to can talk.

706
00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:12.679
None on my body camera, but it could have been

707
00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:14.039
after the body camera was turned off.

708
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:14.599
I don't know.

709
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:17.920
And why did you turn it off?

710
00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:19.719
Why has the body camera turned off?

711
00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:23.119
On's my job, my specific job of doing any primary

712
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:26.840
investigation after my initial arrival is completed, and I'm not

713
00:36:26.920 --> 00:36:29.920
going to be doing anything further to investigate.

714
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:31.559
It's no longer needed.

715
00:36:36.920 --> 00:36:40.079
So with that, hardpootly And is done with this witness,

716
00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:43.880
And as is standard of any trial, the prosecutor gets

717
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:47.719
the opportunity to respond to that, and the defense can

718
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:53.920
respond to the prosecution's response. So Creighton Waters, he springs

719
00:36:53.960 --> 00:36:57.400
out of his chair in record time. He was probably

720
00:36:57.559 --> 00:36:59.920
salivating to get back up there, and he really does.

721
00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:06.519
It's an amazing job of undoing the damage that Harpootlian caused.

722
00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:12.400
And Harpootlian responds to that. So here's both of those clips, Thank.

723
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:14.559
You please, of court. You were asked a series of

724
00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:17.679
questions about xaminating evidence. Are you aware that indy evidence

725
00:37:17.719 --> 00:37:18.880
was contaminated in this case?

726
00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:19.280
I'm not.

727
00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:23.039
Did you agent everything you could to avoid contaminating evidence?

728
00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:23.480
Yes?

729
00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:25.760
Did you in fact instruct your deputies set up a

730
00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:28.800
crime scene and instruct them to avoid areas where evidence

731
00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:29.679
might be contaminated?

732
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:31.800
We did everything we possibly could to avoid contaminating.

733
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:34.920
Your officers all have basic training and trying to avoid

734
00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:36.159
contamination of evidence.

735
00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:36.559
Yes.

736
00:37:36.679 --> 00:37:39.639
Are you also, though, as first responders in a fluid

737
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:42.159
situation during the best you can to assess what's going on?

738
00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:43.000
Correct?

739
00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:45.800
It's not your job to do the actual prime scene

740
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:47.320
investigation work. Is that correct?

741
00:37:47.320 --> 00:37:47.760
Not at all.

742
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:52.559
You were asked about and whether or not you'd had

743
00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:53.719
any meetings with prosecutors.

744
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:57.000
Is it common for law enforcement witnesses or anybodys to

745
00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:01.679
meet with prosecutors prior to a trial? Was Did anybody

746
00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:03.920
ask you to do anything but express your accurate, honest,

747
00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:07.519
opinions and observations about what you observed at this scene.

748
00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:07.719
No.

749
00:38:10.360 --> 00:38:15.400
You were asked about this particular shotgun right here, This

750
00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:18.280
twelve gave shotgun. This is the shotgun an out Nordock hat.

751
00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:19.960
When you ride for the scene Is that correct?

752
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:20.639
That's correct?

753
00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:24.239
And you were asked about the shell right here?

754
00:38:24.280 --> 00:38:24.840
Is that correct?

755
00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:25.400
That's correct?

756
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:27.679
Did you i Moguswell I did? Was it our own

757
00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:28.760
loaded by somebody else.

758
00:38:28.599 --> 00:38:29.599
After you turn it over to that?

759
00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:34.280
Yes, you asked a little bit about the three hundred

760
00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:37.719
blackout casings or cases that were at the scene. Is

761
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:38.239
that correct?

762
00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:38.800
That's correct?

763
00:38:38.840 --> 00:38:39.199
All right?

764
00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:42.000
And just real quick, explain to the jury what a

765
00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:43.280
casing or a case.

766
00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:43.719
Is, please.

767
00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:46.159
So a casing would be what would be left after

768
00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:47.760
the projectile has been fired through.

769
00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:49.920
A weapon, after he's been fired, the shell that comes

770
00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:51.679
out of the gun and lands on the ground near

771
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:52.159
the victim.

772
00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:52.719
Is that right?

773
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:53.320
That's correct.

774
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:55.360
So it's the remnants of a fire ground.

775
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:55.880
Is that right?

776
00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:56.320
That's correct.

777
00:38:56.719 --> 00:38:59.599
There were multiple ones of those blackouts surrounding Maggie. Is

778
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:00.000
that correct?

779
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:00.639
That it's correct.

780
00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:03.599
You were asked a lot about the tire tracks and

781
00:39:03.679 --> 00:39:07.039
you just happen to notice those over behind the defensive vehicle.

782
00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:07.719
Is that correct?

783
00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:08.400
That's great?

784
00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:12.719
And we had a still image put in evidence the

785
00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:13.679
exhibit number five.

786
00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:15.480
This is it right here? Was just the still image?

787
00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:16.000
Is that right?

788
00:39:16.199 --> 00:39:16.480
Yes?

789
00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:16.840
All right?

790
00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:18.840
And the still image doesn't reflect as good as what

791
00:39:18.920 --> 00:39:20.159
the video does is that right?

792
00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:21.679
See the video shows it much better.

793
00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:22.639
All right?

794
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:25.079
Were these like tracks in the dirt or where these

795
00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:28.480
impressions in the grass and the dewy grass.

796
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:30.920
They appeared to be impressions on the demi drot dewy grass.

797
00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:33.559
They weren't like tracks in the dirt that you saw, correct? No,

798
00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:40.519
all right, I'm gonna go back to the video. I'm

799
00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:45.119
playing it at approximately twenty five minutes and eleven seconds.

800
00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:52.119
Maybe from earlier, but only two am I did you

801
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:53.079
go out this way at all?

802
00:39:53.559 --> 00:39:53.639
No?

803
00:40:08.519 --> 00:40:09.920
Just go over to that corner of the building.

804
00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:18.639
I'm almost see you.

805
00:40:18.760 --> 00:40:21.639
Let me see what are we half words? Well enough,

806
00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:23.559
we all handled that.

807
00:40:23.559 --> 00:40:23.960
Part or not.

808
00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:29.000
I see quite a few tire tracks.

809
00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:30.639
And here are any of these you going in and out?

810
00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:32.000
No?

811
00:40:32.199 --> 00:40:35.119
I came in here and I left one time, then

812
00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:35.800
I came back.

813
00:40:36.199 --> 00:40:47.480
Okay, sure, that's maybe okay from earlier, but okay, only

814
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:50.679
two are I did you go out this way so.

815
00:40:50.760 --> 00:40:53.119
That the images that we just saw those were the

816
00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:55.280
dewy impressions in the grass that you were just talking about.

817
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:55.920
Is that correct?

818
00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:56.480
That's correct?

819
00:40:56.800 --> 00:40:58.880
And the defendants said two of them were mine and

820
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:00.360
the rest of them may have been from a Is

821
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:04.880
that correct? Yes, you were asked a little bit about

822
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:08.440
the boat case. Did you have any detailed knowledge or

823
00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:11.400
understanding of the boat case when you arrived at the scene. No,

824
00:41:12.079 --> 00:41:14.039
you just knew very generally that there was some boat case.

825
00:41:14.119 --> 00:41:14.559
Is that right?

826
00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:15.800
Yes, they had been in the news.

827
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:18.639
Did you even realize that this was that Paul Murdoch

828
00:41:18.679 --> 00:41:19.519
when you arrived on the.

829
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:21.840
Scene, Not until he had brought up the boat incident?

830
00:41:22.039 --> 00:41:23.400
And who brought up the boat ins?

831
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:24.440
This murdod did and.

832
00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:26.079
Within a few minutes off you were arriving. He's the

833
00:41:26.119 --> 00:41:28.719
one that brought up the boat ins and he offered

834
00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:30.920
that right out of the gate. Is a possible explanation

835
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:32.199
for what happened here? Is that right?

836
00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:32.920
Yes?

837
00:41:33.320 --> 00:41:36.280
Nothing further? You're on anything further.

838
00:41:41.400 --> 00:41:44.519
As you find it unreasonable for him to say that

839
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:48.519
his son, who'd been involved in this incident, who had

840
00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:53.760
been threatened on numerous occasions, been punched. He told you

841
00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:54.719
he'd been punched.

842
00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:55.199
Right he did?

843
00:41:55.480 --> 00:42:03.880
Okay, that was a possible explanationation, not impausible for somebody

844
00:42:03.920 --> 00:42:07.000
killing Paul. You didn't bike back on him, did you, No?

845
00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:13.960
And it was in his mind apparently the only reasonable

846
00:42:13.960 --> 00:42:17.840
explanation that occurred, right, I don't know what was in

847
00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:19.400
his life. I mean, that's what he told you, that's

848
00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:20.199
what he believed.

849
00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:21.719
That was the statement that he made.

850
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:25.360
Yes, okay, And just one other follow up question. You

851
00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:31.119
were asked if there was any evidence the dewey tire tracks.

852
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:35.000
This was at ten o'clock at night. Was their dew

853
00:42:35.159 --> 00:42:36.079
on the ground? Already?

854
00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:37.280
It was pretty human out there's.

855
00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:39.480
A lot it was humid. Yeah, it wasn't like in

856
00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:39.960
the morning.

857
00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:41.159
This was not morning time.

858
00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:46.159
So but but and are you telling me no one

859
00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:48.760
could have looked, No expert could have looked and said,

860
00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:53.320
you know, that's a suburban, that's a pickup truck. That's

861
00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:54.639
no one could do that.

862
00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:56.440
Or I'm not going to pretend to know what an

863
00:42:56.440 --> 00:42:58.239
expert in that kind of stuff can and can't do.

864
00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:01.559
But you were You're not an expert. Did you believe

865
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:03.960
those tire tracks that's last until sled got there.

866
00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:06.199
Yes, it appeared that they probably would.

867
00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:07.239
Did you point them out this?

868
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:08.519
Did I do it?

869
00:43:08.679 --> 00:43:10.000
Did you point them out to Swift?

870
00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:10.800
I did not?

871
00:43:11.239 --> 00:43:16.239
All right, So one witness and it's already heating up.

872
00:43:16.679 --> 00:43:20.960
And next up is Officer Chad McDowell, who really gets

873
00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:27.559
under fire for lifting paul sheet and leaving a footprint

874
00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:30.880
creating waters, was first up with questioning.

875
00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:33.840
And here's that the state calls Corporal McDowell.

876
00:43:34.039 --> 00:43:36.719
Do you solemnly swear or firm that the testimony you

877
00:43:36.760 --> 00:43:39.719
give to the court in this trial shall be the truth?

878
00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:40.199
To help you?

879
00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:40.440
Guy?

880
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:41.679
Got Thank you.

881
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:43.880
She'll have a seat and adjust that microphone.

882
00:43:44.559 --> 00:43:45.679
Make sure you speak.

883
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:46.440
Into that microphone.

884
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:48.400
State your name is spell your last day.

885
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:48.840
Please.

886
00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:52.320
My name is Chad McDowell. The last name is spelled

887
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:56.320
mc dow e L L Corporate mcdowll.

888
00:43:56.320 --> 00:43:57.000
How are you doing today?

889
00:43:57.159 --> 00:43:57.400
Good?

890
00:43:57.760 --> 00:43:59.000
Tell the jury where you worked.

891
00:43:59.480 --> 00:44:02.039
I worked for college, the County Shriff's office, as I'm

892
00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:03.800
assigned to the Red Patrol of the Canon Handler.

893
00:44:04.159 --> 00:44:06.320
Okay, and can you just give us a quick background

894
00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:08.159
of who you are, where you grew up, and how

895
00:44:08.199 --> 00:44:09.199
you ended up in your career.

896
00:44:09.079 --> 00:44:11.239
In law enforcement. Sure.

897
00:44:12.039 --> 00:44:14.800
I grew up in Colleton County, went to Collin County

898
00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:17.719
High School, went to college at Tri County Technical College,

899
00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:22.360
where I studied criminal justice. Once I reached age, I

900
00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:25.079
came home, was hired by Colling and County Shriff's Office.

901
00:44:26.599 --> 00:44:28.239
Left for a couple of years ago work for Jasper

902
00:44:28.239 --> 00:44:30.719
County and then came back to Colleton. I've been assigning

903
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:32.760
to Read patrol at Colleton, all right?

904
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:34.400
And when what year did you first start working for

905
00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:36.960
Colleton County Sheriff's Department or began your law enforcement career?

906
00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:37.920
Twenty sixteen?

907
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:41.679
And what's your current You're a corporal now, is that correct?

908
00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:42.119
Yes, sir?

909
00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:45.119
And what is your current assignment? What are your doing?

910
00:44:45.159 --> 00:44:47.360
I'm still assigned to Red Patrol. I'm a canine handler.

911
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:50.239
And you say canine, Explain to the jury what that is.

912
00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:53.719
So I have a canine there's assigned to me. We

913
00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:56.639
respond to certain calls or if we're requested by another

914
00:44:56.679 --> 00:45:01.920
deputy for narcotics, searches, searches for suspects, things of that matter.

915
00:45:02.079 --> 00:45:03.360
All right, canine is a dog?

916
00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:04.360
Co right, that's great?

917
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:05.519
All right? What's your dog's name?

918
00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:06.000
Iva?

919
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:07.639
Eva? What kind of dog is Eva?

920
00:45:07.719 --> 00:45:10.039
He's a Belgium malare malamore yep?

921
00:45:10.119 --> 00:45:11.760
Is that kind of like a German shepherd.

922
00:45:12.119 --> 00:45:13.679
Kind of short haired? Plenty years?

923
00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:17.840
I got short hair, twenty years. Is Evo typically with

924
00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:21.119
you when you're out on patrol? Yes, sir, I was

925
00:45:21.159 --> 00:45:24.360
Evo with you the night of June seventh, twenty twenty one, Yes, sir.

926
00:45:25.159 --> 00:45:26.440
Were you a corporal then at that time?

927
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:28.039
Yah, Sir, I was a deputy all right?

928
00:45:28.039 --> 00:45:30.079
And who was on the squad that.

929
00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:30.400
You were on?

930
00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:37.000
Sergeant Daniel Greene, Corporal Alice Janiki, myself, and Deputy Pruit

931
00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:37.639
Cody Pruitt.

932
00:45:38.199 --> 00:45:39.679
So who is your immediate supervisor?

933
00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:43.280
It would have been Corporal Janiki.

934
00:45:43.239 --> 00:45:45.719
Okay, and then above that is Sergeant green all right,

935
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:48.400
and then above that Lieutenant Nettles, all right, and then

936
00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:55.000
above that Captain Crasse okay, all right. What shift were

937
00:45:55.039 --> 00:45:56.840
you were you working the night of June seventh, twenty

938
00:45:56.840 --> 00:45:58.639
twenty one, Yes, sir, I was, And that was in

939
00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:01.599
Collison County, Yes, sir? And what shift were you working

940
00:46:01.639 --> 00:46:01.960
that night?

941
00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:03.119
Night shift?

942
00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:07.280
Did you ultimately respond to a call for service at

943
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:09.960
forty one forty seven Mozel Road, Yes, sir, and you

944
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:10.800
actually went there?

945
00:46:11.079 --> 00:46:11.440
I did?

946
00:46:11.719 --> 00:46:13.800
And did you come to the incident location at the

947
00:46:13.880 --> 00:46:16.800
kennels at that property of forty one forty seven Mozelle Road.

948
00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:17.239
I did?

949
00:46:17.559 --> 00:46:18.719
Is that in Corleton County?

950
00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:19.239
It is.

951
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:27.239
Were you when you arrived? What other first responders were

952
00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:28.599
on scene? To your recollection?

953
00:46:29.239 --> 00:46:33.679
Sergeant Green was there. There was one other fire rescue

954
00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:36.280
personnel vehicle in there. I believe the rest were staged

955
00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:38.679
the best I can remember. When I say staged, I

956
00:46:38.719 --> 00:46:41.280
mean at the head of the driveway. They may have

957
00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:42.880
may been there may have been a couple of other

958
00:46:42.920 --> 00:46:44.159
apparatuses on scene.

959
00:46:44.599 --> 00:46:46.920
And which do you recall which driveway you entered? Did

960
00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:50.159
you enter the driveway near the kennels where you came from?

961
00:46:50.360 --> 00:46:50.480
Yes?

962
00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:53.480
There, it was the same driveway everyone else entered.

963
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:55.719
So you were parked behind uh.

964
00:46:55.960 --> 00:46:57.280
Sergeant Greens? Yes, sir?

965
00:46:59.079 --> 00:46:59.199
Uh?

966
00:46:59.800 --> 00:47:01.639
What did you do after that? After you got out

967
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:02.199
of your vehicle?

968
00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:02.719
What did you do?

969
00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:05.880
I approached the crime scene. I was trying to make

970
00:47:05.920 --> 00:47:07.519
my way to Sergeant Green to see what you needed

971
00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:09.719
me to do. I've made my way through the crime

972
00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:13.239
scene as carefully as I could. I approached the Sergeant Green.

973
00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:19.320
I saw that he was interviewing the only person on scene.

974
00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:22.960
Let me ask you this. You're obviously serving as a

975
00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:24.599
road patrol officer, Is that correct?

976
00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:25.119
Yes, sir?

977
00:47:25.480 --> 00:47:28.840
You what is your job as a road patrol officer?

978
00:47:28.920 --> 00:47:31.119
As a first responder when you come upon a scene

979
00:47:31.159 --> 00:47:33.159
like this, what is your particular role as you arrive

980
00:47:33.199 --> 00:47:33.960
at something like this.

981
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:37.880
We don't see, we secure the scene, meaning make sure

982
00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:41.639
there's no active threat for other arriving first responders will

983
00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:43.320
preserve the scene to the best of our ability and

984
00:47:43.360 --> 00:47:45.440
then turn the scene over to arriving detectives.

985
00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:47.480
When you arrive at a scene like this, are you

986
00:47:47.559 --> 00:47:50.920
constantly not only paying attention for any threat or anything

987
00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:54.280
like that, but also making sure that you don't disturb

988
00:47:54.599 --> 00:47:59.960
or any any sort of evidence and maybe at the scene.

989
00:48:00.159 --> 00:48:00.320
Yes?

990
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:03.119
Is that part of your general training and center operating procedure?

991
00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:03.599
It is.

992
00:48:03.880 --> 00:48:08.599
You also have to couple that, though, with the duties

993
00:48:08.599 --> 00:48:10.800
of a first responder, which is to get to that scene,

994
00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:12.719
to secure it and make sure there's no active threats

995
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:13.639
and get it under control.

996
00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:14.960
Is that correct? That's correct, So the.

997
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:17.000
Duties of a first responder have both of those sort

998
00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:19.119
of balancing together. Is that right, yes, sir? Or are

999
00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:21.400
you constantly always looking around for evidence not only to

1000
00:48:21.440 --> 00:48:24.840
identify it, but also to assure that you don't disturb anything?

1001
00:48:24.920 --> 00:48:26.719
Is that your general You're not a weed?

1002
00:48:28.360 --> 00:48:32.039
Thank you, Erron. What is your general training as a

1003
00:48:32.119 --> 00:48:36.320
road officer as it relates to coming upon a scene

1004
00:48:36.760 --> 00:48:38.000
and looking for evidence?

1005
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:40.000
Our number one.

1006
00:48:41.360 --> 00:48:44.880
Duty would be safety number two. We're looking for evidence

1007
00:48:44.920 --> 00:48:46.000
so as not to disturb it.

1008
00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:54.119
Thank you, right there to the right what is that

1009
00:48:55.320 --> 00:48:56.800
to the right of the stream, to.

1010
00:48:56.920 --> 00:49:00.599
Be miss Myrtle's body.

1011
00:49:02.679 --> 00:49:07.599
Thank Maggie Murdoch. Brand started Murdoch.

1012
00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:10.239
Who are those individuals right there?

1013
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:18.760
Sergeant Green and mister Murdall, how you doing?

1014
00:49:19.960 --> 00:49:21.599
What did the defendants say to you right there?

1015
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:23.360
He said? How are you doing?

1016
00:49:24.039 --> 00:49:24.719
Did you know about?

1017
00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:25.119
No?

1018
00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:33.559
Sir? How are you doing? That's what he said, Yes, sir, listeners, okay,

1019
00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:38.800
nine fifteen sixty eight. And what's your son's first name?

1020
00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:41.199
He said, Paul, Paul Harry Murdoch?

1021
00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:50.199
And what's his birthday?

1022
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:51.159
That I have to be lighting them?

1023
00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:53.800
What are you covering them up?

1024
00:49:54.559 --> 00:49:59.400
I got somethink they don't have to do that.

1025
00:50:10.239 --> 00:50:14.519
He's asked that if we don't have to disturb anything,

1026
00:50:14.719 --> 00:50:24.800
not to We've got splinter on the way.

1027
00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:23.760
All right? What were you asking fire and rescue to

1028
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:24.480
do at that point?

1029
00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:27.360
Just to try to preserve it the best they could

1030
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:28.599
if they ask them?

1031
00:50:28.639 --> 00:50:30.639
But what were you specifically asking them.

1032
00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:32.960
Not to do cover the bodies if they didn't have to?

1033
00:50:33.400 --> 00:50:34.480
And what was their response?

1034
00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:37.239
Though I couldn't make it out. I believe he said

1035
00:50:37.239 --> 00:50:39.840
we're covering them for family, responding I couldn't make it out.

1036
00:50:43.239 --> 00:50:48.639
Yeah, he's asked that if we don't have to disturb anything,

1037
00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:56.400
not to we've got splinter on the way you recall.

1038
00:50:56.480 --> 00:50:59.880
Now again, it sounds like he says, we're just gonna

1039
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:02.320
for him up because the family being here?

1040
00:51:03.320 --> 00:51:04.400
Does the family being here?

1041
00:51:04.679 --> 00:51:09.920
That's what it sounds like. Here, we'll run this here,

1042
00:51:11.480 --> 00:51:13.480
does Yes?

1043
00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:14.000
I agree?

1044
00:51:14.159 --> 00:51:29.360
I told everybody else a chancel. So what we from?

1045
00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:33.719
Hey, Cody, I need a piece of that tape whenever

1046
00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:38.599
you get done.

1047
00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:42.079
What did you just ask Cody for a piece of tape?

1048
00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:43.320
Piece of crime scene tape?

1049
00:51:43.760 --> 00:51:44.639
Right? And who was Cody?

1050
00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:47.400
Deputy Prue? He is the one that you see there

1051
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:48.639
with the yellow crime scene tape.

1052
00:51:48.719 --> 00:51:51.480
And why did you ask Deputy Prue for some crime

1053
00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:52.239
scene tape?

1054
00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:54.639
I had observed a showcasing on the ground. I wanted

1055
00:51:54.639 --> 00:51:57.599
to market so that it didn't become disturbed.

1056
00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:00.559
General duties as an officer, You observed something and you

1057
00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:02.320
asked for some tape to market? Is that correct?

1058
00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:02.800
Yes, sir?

1059
00:52:02.840 --> 00:52:04.920
And that's what you were previously describing your role as.

1060
00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:05.599
Is that correct?

1061
00:52:05.800 --> 00:52:15.039
Yes, sir? Yeah, if y'all don't mind, just Markham.

1062
00:52:19.159 --> 00:52:19.440
Do what.

1063
00:52:21.880 --> 00:52:24.920
Okay? I got a case in right here, So that's

1064
00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:25.519
a stuff.

1065
00:52:34.519 --> 00:52:36.679
That case in that you saw. Did you recognize what

1066
00:52:36.760 --> 00:52:37.760
kind of ammunition it was?

1067
00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:38.440
Yes, sir?

1068
00:52:38.800 --> 00:52:39.679
What kind of ammunition?

1069
00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:41.480
Was it? Three hundred blackout casing?

1070
00:52:41.599 --> 00:52:43.000
And how could you tell it was a three hundred

1071
00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:43.679
blackout casing?

1072
00:52:44.519 --> 00:52:46.360
Just my own personal experience. I want a three hundred

1073
00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:47.760
blackout and I recognize it.

1074
00:52:48.119 --> 00:52:50.039
You recognize the case from your own experience?

1075
00:52:50.199 --> 00:52:54.880
Yes, sir, Now if you will remember with the previous

1076
00:52:54.960 --> 00:52:59.119
witness or Poutlian asked him how they knew that that

1077
00:52:59.239 --> 00:53:04.280
ammo was three hundred blackout ammo without disturbing the shell casing,

1078
00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:09.599
and the response from Green was he didn't know, HARDPOOLI

1079
00:53:09.679 --> 00:53:11.920
and of course was leading the jerk to think that

1080
00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:16.679
someone must have picked it up in disturbed evidence. Great

1081
00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:22.159
job here by creating waters to shut that down completely

1082
00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:23.920
and get an answer to that question.

1083
00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:25.639
We continue on.

1084
00:53:26.039 --> 00:53:29.079
Did you observe any dogs in the kennels? I did

1085
00:53:29.480 --> 00:53:30.920
you remember how many or where they were?

1086
00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:34.920
I do not remember more than one dog, though I

1087
00:53:34.960 --> 00:53:35.559
don't remember.

1088
00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:52.239
They said they had several cases by her body. But

1089
00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:54.760
this one will be a little bit harder, lad, So

1090
00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:57.719
I want to mark it real fast.

1091
00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:04.519
M h.

1092
00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:07.280
You mark that casing? Were you careful not to disturb

1093
00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:09.199
its location where you found it?

1094
00:54:09.559 --> 00:54:11.119
Yes, sir, I placed the tape beside it and then

1095
00:54:11.119 --> 00:54:19.000
placed the rock on top so it wouldn't blow away.

1096
00:54:19.800 --> 00:54:22.159
Why are there so many showcases and only women?

1097
00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:42.360
Frock white.

1098
00:54:59.119 --> 00:55:01.920
K four was a you sorry? Do that to everyone?

1099
00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:02.079
Well?

1100
00:55:02.119 --> 00:55:03.440
What was that loud noise?

1101
00:55:03.519 --> 00:55:04.760
It's just my wainshow wipers.

1102
00:55:05.239 --> 00:55:06.840
And why why was it making that noise?

1103
00:55:08.119 --> 00:55:10.239
They had removed all the moisture. I guess.

1104
00:55:15.440 --> 00:55:17.039
Let you there.

1105
00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:18.559
I don't see anybody.

1106
00:55:28.159 --> 00:55:45.320
Right yellow, yeah, yeah, come through for Cassie.

1107
00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:50.920
A couple of yeah, I'm trying to figure out. Other

1108
00:55:51.400 --> 00:55:52.320
three are a black owl.

1109
00:55:52.679 --> 00:55:53.719
I haven't figure out longer.

1110
00:55:53.800 --> 00:55:56.440
Seven the sail faces, but only one gun shopping into

1111
00:55:56.519 --> 00:56:00.880
the back of each chip. No, my dog figured out.

1112
00:56:00.920 --> 00:56:01.599
I'm just curious.

1113
00:56:03.119 --> 00:56:07.480
I only saw one more casing, but just in case

1114
00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:15.440
I see more, Daniel put his car in there.

1115
00:56:20.519 --> 00:56:26.760
So now this is uh, I'll tell you about this

1116
00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:27.079
and that.

1117
00:56:29.199 --> 00:56:29.920
I don't think.

1118
00:56:31.320 --> 00:56:34.079
There's one there. There's blood over here.

1119
00:56:36.159 --> 00:56:36.760
The one right?

1120
00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:38.239
Sorry?

1121
00:56:40.039 --> 00:56:40.280
Yeah?

1122
00:56:45.239 --> 00:56:59.440
Yeah, you look at the showcases Ranna blackout good Sheriff.

1123
00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:02.639
Those cases that you were marking right here, did you

1124
00:57:02.719 --> 00:57:04.800
at all disturb the location where you saw them?

1125
00:57:05.159 --> 00:57:05.519
No, sir.

1126
00:57:06.840 --> 00:57:10.239
Is he your job to be doing a crime scene

1127
00:57:11.679 --> 00:57:13.559
collection for this case? Or are you just doing that

1128
00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:15.960
to assist those who will do that that will arrive

1129
00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:16.679
at a later time.

1130
00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:19.039
No, sir, I don't collect anything. I'm just marking it

1131
00:57:19.119 --> 00:57:20.719
so that they're not disturbed.

1132
00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:23.480
Who's that to the right of the screen right there?

1133
00:57:24.199 --> 00:57:24.719
That would be me?

1134
00:57:24.920 --> 00:57:26.760
All right? And what are you about to do?

1135
00:57:28.519 --> 00:57:31.440
Step inside and assist? See? How do you with lifting

1136
00:57:31.480 --> 00:57:31.840
that sheet?

1137
00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:33.320
All right? And were you asked to do that?

1138
00:57:33.679 --> 00:57:34.039
Yes, sir?

1139
00:57:34.159 --> 00:57:35.119
And who asked you to do that?

1140
00:57:35.320 --> 00:57:36.000
Captain Chapman?

1141
00:57:36.280 --> 00:57:38.840
All right? And where's Captain Chapman in this image in

1142
00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:41.519
the middle? And as he had senior.

1143
00:57:41.320 --> 00:57:43.480
Officer to you at that time? Okay?

1144
00:57:43.880 --> 00:57:46.760
And I noticed before you moved, what did you do turn.

1145
00:57:46.639 --> 00:57:47.079
My light on?

1146
00:57:47.239 --> 00:57:49.400
And why did you turn on your light so.

1147
00:57:49.519 --> 00:57:51.559
That I could plainly see what was underneath me where

1148
00:57:51.559 --> 00:57:51.960
I was going?

1149
00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:55.800
Did you disturb any any evidence or anything as you

1150
00:57:56.039 --> 00:57:57.320
started to go into the feed room?

1151
00:57:57.639 --> 00:57:58.000
No, sir.

1152
00:57:58.280 --> 00:58:00.960
Were you careful to avoid doing that? Yes, sir, did

1153
00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:03.440
you kick any shellcasings or waddings or anything like that

1154
00:58:03.519 --> 00:58:04.679
when you went into the feed groom?

1155
00:58:05.119 --> 00:58:05.239
Sir?

1156
00:58:05.360 --> 00:58:07.440
Did you step on any bloody free footprints when you

1157
00:58:07.480 --> 00:58:08.360
went into the feed room?

1158
00:58:08.800 --> 00:58:08.920
Sir?

1159
00:58:09.039 --> 00:58:11.239
If you had seen something like that before he stepped

1160
00:58:11.239 --> 00:58:12.280
in there, what would you have done?

1161
00:58:12.559 --> 00:58:14.400
I would have stopped and notified the detective.

1162
00:58:17.480 --> 00:58:18.320
Well, best.

1163
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:22.760
Fire rest.

1164
00:58:22.800 --> 00:58:24.400
You might have some more sheets to steal.

1165
00:58:24.800 --> 00:58:25.679
That's like us.

1166
00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:44.840
And do you recall what if anything was laying on

1167
00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:45.840
Paul's rear.

1168
00:58:45.719 --> 00:58:48.159
End his cell phone or a cell phone?

1169
00:58:52.599 --> 00:58:53.960
Is that it end this image right here?

1170
00:58:54.519 --> 00:58:54.920
Yes, sir?

1171
00:59:03.960 --> 00:59:14.320
Yeah, what's your shortage for no black guys blue?

1172
00:59:14.719 --> 00:59:15.320
I don't mean.

1173
00:59:17.559 --> 00:59:17.880
Probably.

1174
00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:21.960
I haven't asked the dad about the tone, but his

1175
00:59:22.119 --> 00:59:23.360
dad did say he came over and.

1176
00:59:23.480 --> 00:59:24.199
Checked the policies.

1177
00:59:25.960 --> 00:59:26.320
Beyond that.

1178
00:59:26.400 --> 00:59:27.159
I don't know that he.

1179
00:59:37.880 --> 00:59:40.599
Did have a shotgun with him. I have secured that vision.

1180
00:59:41.840 --> 00:59:59.920
He was so awkward one simon, h.

1181
01:00:10.960 --> 01:00:12.519
Did you kind of jump out of the feed room

1182
01:00:12.639 --> 01:00:12.920
just then?

1183
01:00:13.199 --> 01:00:13.480
Yes, sir?

1184
01:00:13.639 --> 01:00:15.039
Did you turn on your light before he did so?

1185
01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:23.719
I believe, sir, watch it again.

1186
01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:32.000
Did you jump out when you left the feed room?

1187
01:00:32.119 --> 01:00:32.400
Yes, sir?

1188
01:00:32.519 --> 01:00:33.599
And why did you jump out like that?

1189
01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:37.800
Trying not to deserve the body. It was easier to

1190
01:00:38.119 --> 01:00:39.320
leap out than to try.

1191
01:00:39.199 --> 01:00:42.280
To step Did you enter the feed room at any

1192
01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:44.880
point after that? To your recollection, not to my recollection.

1193
01:00:50.840 --> 01:00:55.159
I'm gonna show you what's been marked as defense exhibit

1194
01:00:55.280 --> 01:00:58.960
number one and see if you recognize this particular.

1195
01:00:58.639 --> 01:01:04.840
Image, Yes, sir, and I switch out post place?

1196
01:01:20.760 --> 01:01:23.639
Does that appeared to? Is that how you found Paul

1197
01:01:23.639 --> 01:01:24.920
when you arrived at the scene.

1198
01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:25.800
Yes, sir.

1199
01:01:26.320 --> 01:01:28.559
And were his hands underneath him in that fashion when

1200
01:01:28.559 --> 01:01:31.360
you arrived at the scene, Yes, sir, you're all right.

1201
01:01:31.639 --> 01:01:34.960
Half stay's exhibit seven, I believe in Out of the Dutch.

1202
01:01:38.679 --> 01:01:40.800
Can show you what's been marked at the exhibit seven

1203
01:01:41.480 --> 01:01:43.039
and see if you recognize.

1204
01:01:42.559 --> 01:01:46.760
That image, Yes, sir, And what is that? It's a

1205
01:01:46.880 --> 01:01:49.320
still image of video of my body one camera?

1206
01:01:50.039 --> 01:01:51.960
Is that a still image of one of the doctor

1207
01:01:52.039 --> 01:01:54.079
one of the minis walked up?

1208
01:01:54.480 --> 01:01:59.440
Yes, sir, just masterful the way Waters ended that bringing

1209
01:01:59.559 --> 01:02:04.559
up the how you doing comment? Who says that those

1210
01:02:04.760 --> 01:02:08.639
three words had bothered me since the first time I

1211
01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:13.199
saw that body cam footage that was so far out

1212
01:02:13.239 --> 01:02:15.760
of place. At that point is when I said, oh,

1213
01:02:16.679 --> 01:02:20.280
this guy did this shit? Well, let's see what harpooling

1214
01:02:20.360 --> 01:02:23.440
and can do to unravel what was, in my opinion

1215
01:02:23.480 --> 01:02:26.440
is some great direct by Waters.

1216
01:02:26.719 --> 01:02:27.440
Here's that club.

1217
01:02:28.039 --> 01:02:29.239
When you got to the scene.

1218
01:02:29.360 --> 01:02:31.840
Who was your supervisor Sergeant Green?

1219
01:02:32.079 --> 01:02:35.960
Sergeant Green, and I believe Sargeant Green was instructing all

1220
01:02:36.039 --> 01:02:38.159
to put some yellow tape up. You did some of that,

1221
01:02:39.559 --> 01:02:39.880
he didn't.

1222
01:02:40.280 --> 01:02:42.159
That definitely prove it, yes, but I didn't.

1223
01:02:42.280 --> 01:02:43.000
What was what was.

1224
01:02:45.280 --> 01:02:45.960
Sergian Green?

1225
01:02:46.039 --> 01:02:46.079
What?

1226
01:02:46.480 --> 01:02:49.599
What was his instructions to you? What was what were

1227
01:02:49.639 --> 01:02:54.280
you there to do? Number one? Let me withdraw that question.

1228
01:02:54.480 --> 01:02:57.760
Were you there to apprehend somebody?

1229
01:03:00.159 --> 01:03:01.119
Not at the time they sair.

1230
01:03:01.119 --> 01:03:03.840
I was just there to assist where needed, assist doing what.

1231
01:03:05.480 --> 01:03:06.719
Whatever was needed of me.

1232
01:03:08.440 --> 01:03:11.840
Were you invested? Were you all attempting to determine what happened?

1233
01:03:13.480 --> 01:03:13.519
We?

1234
01:03:13.599 --> 01:03:16.519
Were we there as initial responders, were there to secure

1235
01:03:16.519 --> 01:03:18.360
the scene, secure the.

1236
01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:22.440
Scene, and secure the scene for further processing by.

1237
01:03:22.400 --> 01:03:26.519
SLED by our investigators. I learned later on that Sled

1238
01:03:26.679 --> 01:03:27.519
was responding as well.

1239
01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:28.400
Yeah.

1240
01:03:28.960 --> 01:03:31.719
So let me by way of example, you went down

1241
01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:33.960
to where Paul's body was, It was covered with a sheet.

1242
01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:35.039
We see that on the video.

1243
01:03:36.480 --> 01:03:39.440
Correct, not when I initially responded, but yes, sir.

1244
01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:41.519
No, no, but the video what you saw, yes, sir?

1245
01:03:42.320 --> 01:03:45.880
And why why were y'all what I mean, what was

1246
01:03:45.920 --> 01:03:48.119
the road? Was there a purpose in going down there

1247
01:03:48.159 --> 01:03:50.000
and pulling a chet back looking around it?

1248
01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:51.679
I believe they were looking for another weapon?

1249
01:03:52.840 --> 01:03:53.639
What kind of weapon?

1250
01:03:54.519 --> 01:03:56.280
I believe they were for a three hour blackout?

1251
01:03:56.559 --> 01:03:58.440
But I mean we saw in the picture. If you

1252
01:03:58.519 --> 01:04:01.360
look at Paul's body, there's no three three hundred black

1253
01:04:01.360 --> 01:04:06.079
outland next to him. Correct, No, sir, I'm correct.

1254
01:04:07.119 --> 01:04:09.119
Yes, you're correct. No, there was no three hundred blackout

1255
01:04:09.199 --> 01:04:09.800
laying beside them.

1256
01:04:09.840 --> 01:04:13.119
Okay, So you say you're down there looking for another weapon?

1257
01:04:13.199 --> 01:04:14.519
Where were you looking for another weapon?

1258
01:04:15.320 --> 01:04:18.280
I wasn't, sir. I was assisting lifting the sheet for detectives.

1259
01:04:21.639 --> 01:04:26.159
And you can see you stepped into the fever room, yes, sir.

1260
01:04:26.880 --> 01:04:31.480
And based on the way Paul was laying, and of

1261
01:04:31.559 --> 01:04:33.239
course you did have a flashlight and you were looking

1262
01:04:33.320 --> 01:04:35.199
try not to step on anything. Did you have anything

1263
01:04:35.800 --> 01:04:41.280
insulate your feet? In some jurisdictions they have little baggy

1264
01:04:41.360 --> 01:04:43.519
things that put over their feet to make sure they

1265
01:04:43.559 --> 01:04:46.039
don't contaminate the scene. If you have those on the no, sir.

1266
01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:53.760
And did you when you stepped in, you got a flashlight.

1267
01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:57.360
What you were looking at with the pizzible eye. You're

1268
01:04:57.400 --> 01:04:58.840
determined you weren't disturbing the scene.

1269
01:04:58.920 --> 01:04:59.800
Correct, that's correct?

1270
01:05:00.039 --> 01:05:02.639
In an effort not to Yes, sir, you don't know

1271
01:05:02.679 --> 01:05:03.679
whether you did or you didn't.

1272
01:05:04.400 --> 01:05:06.480
To my knowledge, I did not, But you can't say

1273
01:05:06.480 --> 01:05:10.960
that you did to your knowledge. Can you rep that

1274
01:05:11.760 --> 01:05:14.000
to your knowledge? You didn't to my knowledge, I did

1275
01:05:14.039 --> 01:05:14.800
not deserve anything.

1276
01:05:15.519 --> 01:05:18.599
But you would can see there's microscopic evidence sometimes a

1277
01:05:18.679 --> 01:05:19.159
crime scenes.

1278
01:05:19.199 --> 01:05:20.239
Correct, Yes, so that's possible.

1279
01:05:20.320 --> 01:05:22.679
And you didn't have a microscope and this, sir, But

1280
01:05:23.239 --> 01:05:26.760
like sweats, crime team would look very closely, would they not?

1281
01:05:26.920 --> 01:05:28.800
They would not. I mean, as far as I could tell,

1282
01:05:28.840 --> 01:05:32.360
you were looking basically for three or four feet away

1283
01:05:32.360 --> 01:05:35.880
from the floor, right, Yes, sir, Okay, So what you

1284
01:05:35.960 --> 01:05:37.880
can see with the naked eye at night with a

1285
01:05:37.960 --> 01:05:41.119
flashlight from three or four feet if what you base

1286
01:05:41.239 --> 01:05:43.079
your opinion, you didn't disturb anything.

1287
01:05:43.480 --> 01:05:44.000
That's correct.

1288
01:05:44.760 --> 01:05:48.719
Now, And you don't know why they were looking for

1289
01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:50.960
another weapon, but you don't know what other weapon. You

1290
01:05:51.000 --> 01:05:54.519
don't know where that weapon might have been. And again,

1291
01:05:55.119 --> 01:05:58.880
multiple definites had seen all of body before he was

1292
01:05:58.960 --> 01:05:59.920
company with a she right.

1293
01:06:01.320 --> 01:06:07.239
Myself, Sergeant Green, did you in in your presence, any

1294
01:06:08.400 --> 01:06:11.679
of the other officer with with you there that night?

1295
01:06:11.719 --> 01:06:13.360
Did any of them disc gott This is a possible

1296
01:06:13.679 --> 01:06:15.559
murder suicide. Murder suicide.

1297
01:06:15.960 --> 01:06:21.199
It's possible, it's not to my recollection. Now.

1298
01:06:21.280 --> 01:06:25.159
When you're going out and we saw you mark a shellcasing,

1299
01:06:25.599 --> 01:06:27.159
was that in the grass or on the on the

1300
01:06:28.400 --> 01:06:28.679
on the.

1301
01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:35.159
U the dirt? Brother, I believe the first one was

1302
01:06:35.360 --> 01:06:38.519
in gravel, in the gravel, yes, sir, kay?

1303
01:06:38.840 --> 01:06:41.639
But you found others, right, yes, sir. And to do

1304
01:06:41.800 --> 01:06:45.480
that you had to walk around in the grass, yes.

1305
01:06:45.400 --> 01:06:46.159
Sir, okay.

1306
01:06:46.880 --> 01:06:51.800
And again you've got a flashlight. You're looking and you

1307
01:06:51.880 --> 01:06:53.559
don't know what was in the grass that you may

1308
01:06:53.599 --> 01:07:00.440
have disturbed around those showcase, Yes, sir, you don't know, necessir,

1309
01:07:00.679 --> 01:07:01.800
you may have disturbed something.

1310
01:07:02.480 --> 01:07:03.119
It's possible.

1311
01:07:05.119 --> 01:07:07.920
And I guess what I'm trying to ask is, why

1312
01:07:09.079 --> 01:07:12.000
then were you trying to look for shellcases? Why couldn't

1313
01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:14.280
you wait till the next morning? Why why was this

1314
01:07:14.559 --> 01:07:17.280
urgency I mean with somebody getting away or I mean,

1315
01:07:17.320 --> 01:07:18.800
I don't quite understand why.

1316
01:07:19.039 --> 01:07:19.760
I can't answer that.

1317
01:07:19.880 --> 01:07:20.199
I don't know.

1318
01:07:20.400 --> 01:07:21.880
I didn't know somebody was getting away or not.

1319
01:07:23.159 --> 01:07:25.760
Did somebody instruct you to go find shellcases?

1320
01:07:26.079 --> 01:07:26.400
Necessir?

1321
01:07:26.639 --> 01:07:28.519
You just did it on your own initiative, yes, sir.

1322
01:07:28.960 --> 01:07:31.000
And you can see that you may have disturbed destroy

1323
01:07:31.039 --> 01:07:31.800
evidence in.

1324
01:07:31.840 --> 01:07:34.920
That process, microscopic or something I didn't see.

1325
01:07:34.880 --> 01:07:38.760
Well, microscopt was something down in the grass? I mean

1326
01:07:38.800 --> 01:07:43.880
you're walking on grass right, Yes, a smooth surface like

1327
01:07:44.519 --> 01:07:48.519
in the in the shed in the feed room. But

1328
01:07:48.840 --> 01:07:54.199
it's grass at night, correct, Yes, sir. And I guess

1329
01:07:54.239 --> 01:07:58.239
what I'm trying to wonder is what y'all were doing.

1330
01:07:58.360 --> 01:08:00.840
Were you trying to solve a crime? Were you trying

1331
01:08:00.960 --> 01:08:06.039
to just index everything was there? And when did you

1332
01:08:06.079 --> 01:08:07.159
find out if sledge was coming?

1333
01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:08.840
So we're trying to mark everything there.

1334
01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:11.199
As you can tell, there were multiple units coming back

1335
01:08:11.239 --> 01:08:13.800
and forth, Fire rescue as well as Sheriff's office. We

1336
01:08:13.960 --> 01:08:15.920
try to market so that it brings awareness to their

1337
01:08:16.079 --> 01:08:18.039
to them and it doesn't become disturbed.

1338
01:08:18.239 --> 01:08:19.960
I'm sorry, I can't understand it. I can't hear you.

1339
01:08:20.560 --> 01:08:23.079
There were multiple units so scene, Sheriff's office as well

1340
01:08:23.119 --> 01:08:26.880
as fire rescue. The reason that I saw urgency to

1341
01:08:27.000 --> 01:08:30.159
mark those showcasings is so that it brings awareness to

1342
01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:30.520
those of.

1343
01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:33.039
Us that were walking around and they don't become disturbed.

1344
01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:35.000
Well, that brings up the question, should you have been

1345
01:08:35.039 --> 01:08:37.880
walking around? What do you what if you've got two

1346
01:08:37.960 --> 01:08:43.079
dead people? Whoever the perpetrator was at that point, y'all

1347
01:08:43.119 --> 01:08:44.880
hadn't identified Maggie.

1348
01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:46.079
That's hurt.

1349
01:08:46.600 --> 01:08:49.439
Okay. So the perpetrator may be in the woods across

1350
01:08:49.880 --> 01:08:51.239
across the street as far as you know.

1351
01:08:51.279 --> 01:08:54.000
At that point, right, could have been anywhere.

1352
01:08:54.399 --> 01:08:57.119
Right. So you're not trying to solve a prime. You're

1353
01:08:58.079 --> 01:08:59.159
processing a scene.

1354
01:08:59.399 --> 01:09:08.800
I'm not cross saying anything. You don't know what you're doing.

1355
01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:11.560
I just told you what I was doing, sir.

1356
01:09:11.840 --> 01:09:15.399
You're marking pieces of evidence, yes, sir. And the urgency

1357
01:09:15.479 --> 01:09:17.199
to do that was so that no one else should

1358
01:09:17.239 --> 01:09:19.800
walk over them, Yes, sir, while you're walking around them

1359
01:09:20.239 --> 01:09:22.720
around him, yes, sir. Well you don't know whether you

1360
01:09:22.760 --> 01:09:24.119
actually stepped on one or not, do you?

1361
01:09:24.680 --> 01:09:26.880
I was very careful or not to you? Okay.

1362
01:09:27.920 --> 01:09:32.159
Now, let me also ask you this that the pattern

1363
01:09:32.359 --> 01:09:35.319
of the first shellcasing was how far away from the

1364
01:09:35.399 --> 01:09:35.880
feed room.

1365
01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:41.439
I can't say you found the first shellcasing I found? Yeah,

1366
01:09:41.840 --> 01:09:42.439
I'm not sure.

1367
01:09:43.079 --> 01:09:46.239
Ten feet twenty feet more than me, further than.

1368
01:09:46.439 --> 01:09:48.159
Probably about the same distance from me to you.

1369
01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:54.279
Okay, from the feed room door, yes, sir, now I understand,

1370
01:09:54.960 --> 01:09:57.800
and you fired. You got to wak out right, yes, sir.

1371
01:09:58.039 --> 01:09:59.880
And when you fire that there's a deject to the right.

1372
01:09:59.800 --> 01:10:02.079
Of the left, to the right mind us.

1373
01:10:02.520 --> 01:10:07.560
Okay. So if the feed room is where I am

1374
01:10:09.279 --> 01:10:13.520
that shellcasing ejected to the right, right and forward, right

1375
01:10:13.560 --> 01:10:14.920
and back, what.

1376
01:10:14.960 --> 01:10:15.239
Do you know?

1377
01:10:15.640 --> 01:10:17.760
Are you asking where the showcasing was in relation to

1378
01:10:18.840 --> 01:10:21.720
the door? It would have been forward and right of

1379
01:10:21.800 --> 01:10:24.520
the door, forward and.

1380
01:10:24.560 --> 01:10:27.600
The right of the door, and there was the pattern

1381
01:10:27.680 --> 01:10:30.039
of casings leading they all weak of her body.

1382
01:10:30.520 --> 01:10:31.239
I can't remember.

1383
01:10:33.439 --> 01:10:34.800
Did you sketch where you found them?

1384
01:10:35.439 --> 01:10:37.279
Nis, sir? I did not do a crime scene sketch.

1385
01:10:37.760 --> 01:10:39.680
Have you ever done a crime scene sketch?

1386
01:10:39.920 --> 01:10:40.239
N sir?

1387
01:10:44.359 --> 01:10:46.600
Tell me your training in crime scene processing.

1388
01:10:47.800 --> 01:10:50.359
It's very basic, limits of what you would get at

1389
01:10:50.880 --> 01:10:55.279
the Criminal Justice Academy. Very basic, yes, sir, So.

1390
01:10:55.399 --> 01:11:01.520
You're not a crime scene processor. Again, and I'm not

1391
01:11:01.640 --> 01:11:05.159
asking this question competitively. I'm just trying to puzzle it out.

1392
01:11:05.800 --> 01:11:09.079
What you don't know?

1393
01:11:09.159 --> 01:11:15.960
What your role is there? I was the first responder, well,

1394
01:11:16.199 --> 01:11:20.640
they were dead, Paul and Maggie, right, you couldn't render

1395
01:11:20.720 --> 01:11:21.159
them any a.

1396
01:11:23.640 --> 01:11:26.840
Your honor, I would object no question in that statement.

1397
01:11:27.600 --> 01:11:28.239
Is there a question?

1398
01:11:28.600 --> 01:11:31.039
Could you have rendered them a where they end up

1399
01:11:31.079 --> 01:11:33.840
in a physical condition where your assistance would have helped?

1400
01:11:34.760 --> 01:11:34.960
Nice?

1401
01:11:34.960 --> 01:11:37.600
Sir, they were dead, correct?

1402
01:11:37.640 --> 01:11:39.920
Are you asking? Yes, sir? Yes? Okay.

1403
01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:43.439
Let me show you a couple of these these quips

1404
01:11:43.479 --> 01:11:59.319
and ask about them. Okay, This is you walking, and

1405
01:11:59.439 --> 01:12:01.319
these are the dogs bends over here to.

1406
01:12:01.359 --> 01:12:03.079
The left, right, yes, sir?

1407
01:12:03.720 --> 01:12:05.920
And on right in front of that one of the

1408
01:12:05.960 --> 01:12:10.359
dog bens is a hose that is neatly coiled around

1409
01:12:11.760 --> 01:12:14.119
a hose, something holding the hose, right.

1410
01:12:14.439 --> 01:12:15.239
That's what it looks like.

1411
01:12:15.560 --> 01:12:28.880
Okay, go ahead, eleven.

1412
01:12:37.079 --> 01:12:37.560
Hey you doing?

1413
01:12:39.920 --> 01:12:43.520
Okay? Now this mister Waters, I asked you about this

1414
01:12:43.680 --> 01:12:45.279
just a moment ago when he said how you doing?

1415
01:12:45.319 --> 01:12:48.000
When somebody walked up, you would concede to me. It's

1416
01:12:49.079 --> 01:12:51.399
but for that one quick he appears to be distraught

1417
01:12:51.479 --> 01:12:52.840
over the death of his wife and son.

1418
01:12:53.680 --> 01:12:55.239
He appeared visibly upset.

1419
01:12:55.560 --> 01:12:58.520
Yes, okay, Other than this, how you doing this sort

1420
01:12:58.520 --> 01:12:59.119
of thing? Right?

1421
01:12:59.560 --> 01:12:59.840
Correct?

1422
01:13:00.239 --> 01:13:03.560
H okay? Also, we see him in a T shirt

1423
01:13:03.600 --> 01:13:07.319
and a pair of shorts. Right, yes, sir, I've looked

1424
01:13:07.319 --> 01:13:10.279
at your report. Everybody that encountered him that night. No

1425
01:13:10.600 --> 01:13:14.159
report indicates any blood of physical on him. You would

1426
01:13:14.199 --> 01:13:14.560
agree with.

1427
01:13:14.600 --> 01:13:18.159
That, I didn't observe anything. What I did not observe anything?

1428
01:13:18.640 --> 01:13:25.920
It's away sure, yes, sir. Okay, if you noted blood

1429
01:13:25.920 --> 01:13:27.239
on him, he would have made if you would have

1430
01:13:27.600 --> 01:13:29.439
put that in your notes or reported.

1431
01:13:29.079 --> 01:13:51.640
That to somebody, right, yes, sir, okay, sure.

1432
01:14:07.199 --> 01:14:09.960
That's you apparently determining the shellcase that you found.

1433
01:14:10.600 --> 01:14:13.760
There's a three, correct, the one that I'm marked, Yes, sir,

1434
01:14:14.119 --> 01:14:16.640
The one was in the gravel, Yes, sir.

1435
01:14:18.479 --> 01:14:23.239
So my opinion, Waters won that by a mile, but

1436
01:14:23.800 --> 01:14:27.079
Waters was not done yet with this redrag.

1437
01:14:27.640 --> 01:14:28.680
Are you a first responder?

1438
01:14:29.159 --> 01:14:29.520
Yes, sir.

1439
01:14:30.159 --> 01:14:33.560
Your first job is safety correct, yes, sir. It's second

1440
01:14:33.640 --> 01:14:36.600
job is to protect the scene as our projection leading.

1441
01:14:38.720 --> 01:14:40.840
Tell me what your jobs as a first responder.

1442
01:14:40.560 --> 01:14:44.199
Argent, Yes, sir. We secure the scene, make sure there's

1443
01:14:44.199 --> 01:14:47.640
no current threat for additional first responders. We then secure

1444
01:14:47.640 --> 01:14:50.439
the scene, make sure that nobody comes in it's not

1445
01:14:50.479 --> 01:14:54.199
supposed to do so that we preserve any evidence is there.

1446
01:14:55.279 --> 01:15:00.479
It's part of your training. To avoid disturb the scene

1447
01:15:00.520 --> 01:15:03.800
as best you can, Yes, sir, still paying attention to

1448
01:15:03.880 --> 01:15:04.600
your primary role.

1449
01:15:04.960 --> 01:15:05.319
Yes, sir.

1450
01:15:06.000 --> 01:15:09.720
It's part of your training and your experience, and what

1451
01:15:09.840 --> 01:15:11.720
you try to do is if you do see it,

1452
01:15:12.000 --> 01:15:17.880
in your honor lead a refraser. If you are on

1453
01:15:18.079 --> 01:15:21.319
scene and you do see evidence while you were there,

1454
01:15:22.479 --> 01:15:25.159
what is your standard operating procedure in that event?

1455
01:15:25.760 --> 01:15:28.439
I would market and why do you do that just

1456
01:15:28.520 --> 01:15:30.439
to bring awareness to it so that it's not disturbed?

1457
01:15:30.760 --> 01:15:36.239
Is your job to be a crime scene investigator? You're

1458
01:15:36.319 --> 01:15:45.199
just marking that, are we phrased? You were asked earlier

1459
01:15:46.199 --> 01:15:50.199
about apprehending any suspects. Was mister Murdock ever in custody?

1460
01:15:50.800 --> 01:15:54.159
Ness or not? To my recollection, so your observation.

1461
01:15:54.359 --> 01:15:55.479
Was he allowed to move freely?

1462
01:15:56.199 --> 01:15:56.520
Yes, sir?

1463
01:15:56.800 --> 01:15:58.880
Was he allowed to interact with people who came to

1464
01:15:58.920 --> 01:16:01.000
talk to him, Yes, sir. Was he ever placed in

1465
01:16:01.079 --> 01:16:03.119
the back of a police car, not that I'm a

1466
01:16:03.520 --> 01:16:04.640
never put in handcuffs?

1467
01:16:05.119 --> 01:16:05.439
No, sir.

1468
01:16:07.680 --> 01:16:10.119
Was he being treated as a suspect when you were there?

1469
01:16:10.279 --> 01:16:11.319
Not that I'm af.

1470
01:16:15.399 --> 01:16:15.680
Nothing.

1471
01:16:15.720 --> 01:16:17.760
Farlyer on, nothink furly on. Thank you.

1472
01:16:17.960 --> 01:16:20.640
You may step down. So there you have it.

1473
01:16:21.119 --> 01:16:25.399
Two up, two down in the first day of direct testimony.

1474
01:16:26.520 --> 01:16:29.880
Now they had several other people including the nine to

1475
01:16:29.880 --> 01:16:34.720
one one dispatcher and the fire chief, as well as

1476
01:16:34.960 --> 01:16:38.479
Captain Chapman's testimony still to go in this first day,

1477
01:16:39.199 --> 01:16:43.079
So on the next episode I will cover that. But

1478
01:16:43.359 --> 01:16:47.199
what struck out to me so far more than anything else,

1479
01:16:48.079 --> 01:16:52.239
is the scene sure could have been secured better. I

1480
01:16:52.359 --> 01:16:55.520
think these police officers did a great job. These are

1481
01:16:55.640 --> 01:17:00.319
road cops, they're not detectives, and I think they did

1482
01:17:00.319 --> 01:17:02.920
a pretty good job of securing that scene. But there

1483
01:17:03.000 --> 01:17:07.239
was some sloppy stuff there that for sure, a trial

1484
01:17:07.359 --> 01:17:11.399
of this magnitude you don't want that kind of sloppiness

1485
01:17:11.479 --> 01:17:14.880
on the scene. The main thing that was highlighted in

1486
01:17:15.039 --> 01:17:20.399
this episode for me was that comment, how you're doing.

1487
01:17:21.600 --> 01:17:25.319
I think that made quite an impression on the jury,

1488
01:17:25.439 --> 01:17:28.640
and I honestly think that won the day for the prosecution.

1489
01:17:28.840 --> 01:17:32.119
Shout out to create Waters for focusing on that so much,

1490
01:17:32.439 --> 01:17:48.760
and we are just getting into it, folks. I want

1491
01:17:48.800 --> 01:17:52.560
to thank all of you so much for listening. Please

1492
01:17:52.720 --> 01:17:56.319
rate the podcast wherever you listen. It makes all the

1493
01:17:56.479 --> 01:18:01.680
difference in the world. Just one word and hopefully five stars.

1494
01:18:02.079 --> 01:18:06.000
It really helps to push this podcast out to people

1495
01:18:06.079 --> 01:18:09.000
that are not familiar with it. Thank you so much

1496
01:18:09.119 --> 01:18:12.520
to the Patreons Labs. I couldn't do this without you.

1497
01:18:13.520 --> 01:18:20.439
And until next time for exposed scandalous files of the elite,

1498
01:18:21.199 --> 01:18:22.920
I'm your host, Jim Chapman.

1499
01:18:23.840 --> 01:18:24.439
Much love,