“Murdaugh" Episode Eight | The Interrogations Part Two

0:00 [Music] Just one month after the murders at Mozel, Sledley Detective David Owens arranges for a second formal interview, this time taking place on his turf. [Music] Alex accompanied by his attorney and friend Cory Fleming, meet with the detective intent on gaining information as to the progress of the investigation, but Detective Owens has other plans.

0:43 [Music] In this interrogation, as Alex cracks under the pressure, Detective Owens lays out the facts known so far that point to Alex Mardol's direct participation asking Alex point blank, "Did you murder your wife and son?" [Music] Welcome to Exposed, scandalous files of the elite, Mardol, Episode 8, the interrogations, Part 2.

1:33 [Music] Hey, welcome back to Exposed, scandalous files of the elite, I'm your host Jim Chapman, and today we are continuing with the eighth episode in the Mardol series, and I'm going to call this one the interrogations, Part 2. So as I told you in the last episode, the interrogations are the biggest pieces of the puzzle in this case, primarily because Alex Mardol cannot shut the fuck up. He answers questions, he's not even asked, and he provides details that go way beyond the scope of what the detectives would ask him.

2:21 Now, today I'm going to proceed in the same way I did last week, and that's by playing you the entire interrogation, but having breaks as we go along to discuss what it is, you just heard. So let me set the scene in this one, and shockingly, this one does not take place in a vehicle. It actually takes place in an interrogation room, and the people in that room are two detectives, the lead detective David Owens, and detective Jeff Crawlft, both from Sled, as well as Alex Mardol, and Alex Mardol's bestie/atoning Corey Fleming, and you'll remember his name from past episode.

3:10 Here's what that interrogation sounded like, and we'll start at the beginning. All right, so I look out for a shoot you coming in the day. That's really easy. I know there's a lot of talk about, and then there's questions. But before we get started, with your questions, this is being gone for too long, and we've done a lot of work. I know you have, and I've got some more questions, and I'll need to clear the questions all. I'm sugar, okay? So we just go through that. When that comes up? [BEEP] Maybe I'm mistaken.

3:53 I thought we were coming here, so if you could update him, what's going on? And I intend to do that, and I guess you can. Well, I'm that first. The update is I'm doing a investigation, and I have some questions that I need. I would like some answers to it. And I mean certainly if you know I asked the question, if you don't want to answer, you don't have to answer. No, I'm not going to answer. I mean if it's more clarifications of the two interviews, you can only give them a totally understanding, okay? Just for one second, yeah. Wait, one second. All right. I mean for you to tell me, are you going to give us information or we just hear you can ask questions?

4:40 Now I'm going to give you some information. Why can't you give us information first? So many information that you're asking about or any of my questions. And as we go through, you'll see. Okay, I don't mind. I don't mind you. But I can't. I mean, I'm a friend, but I'm also a lawyer, and I like to know what we're talking about. Well, I need you to answer this question. You know, are you asking him questions? To further your investigation, are you asking him questions?

5:23 Because you think he's a suspect. I need a straight answer. I am asking these questions to further my investigation. All right. What does that mean that you're not asking him these questions as a suspect? Because it, good, say, because I'm not comfortable with you asking him questions as a suspect when I came here with the thought that you were going to be telling him where you are in the investigation. What it is?

6:05 What it is you've done seen uncovered? Whatever. That's why we came here. Well, let me, let me respond to your question. It may not be a direct answer that you're looking for. And I'll pull out of this first matter. Any homicide investigation, you start with the closest person and the person who found the deceased. But in case that's Alec. Everybody stays in that investigation until we can get them out. And right now, because of the questions that I have that I need explanations for, I cannot be Alec out. That's a reasonable statement.

6:48 I'm a problem statement. That's fine. Um, I don't read it. But um, everybody in the United States of America has some penny moments. Yes, it's a big deal. And because I know everybody, I know it's a bunch of bullshit. Um, I can't imagine that y'all are going to be asking about nonsense in the internet. No. All right. No. Well, just just like you, I'm aware of what's out there. I have not read every article. I don't care if you read every article because they're not doing the investigation.

7:30 That's right. All right. Well, you know, if you're called to... You're not okay, yes. Done this time. And I'm... You're not even able to help. All right. This thing. All right. So as you heard there, they sit down. They start talking in right out of the gate, Alex's bestie, Cory Fleming. He tries to put David Owen, the lead investigator on the defensive. And from past episodes, we know how much of a piece of shit Cory Fleming is, right? He's the same guy who represented the family of Alex's former housekeeper, who died on his property.

8:12 Now, shout out to David Owen, who so far has been handling this with a lot more patients than I would have. I can tell you that. And he even takes time to explain what I've told you many times throughout the series. You work these cases from the inside out. You start with the people closest to the victim. And your job as an investigator is to find a way to rule them out until they're completely ruled out. And until that happens, they're still in that circle. So finally, David Owen's, he backs Cory Fleming off. And we continue. So I want to go back to Muddy Boy and you went to the office.

8:54 What time did you go to the office? Who is extra housekeeper? You love him. And what time did you go to the office? We've been to a ballgame that we can. I don't remember exactly what time it would have been. Somewhere between 830 and 930 probably to the clock maybe at the latest. It's like that. And when I ask about time, I'm not saying, "You think Bob 11" or something like that. It's totally on the hands of Bob Warren. That's those things you can get to. And if you need to know exactly when, my, there would be a keypad that will tell when exactly I went in my office.

9:53 That I can get for you. So you have to keep all good, get in your office. A card card. A little bit. You know, a little bit, well, it's probably a little bit over the later side of that. I guess I know Maggie got up early, to get out of there because she had an appointment in Charleston. I just don't remember if I left right after she did, or I'll put her around. But, and I already know that Paul stated John Mormons at night, so it's just you and Magnet House.

10:34 That's correct. Um, and I know when you were at the office, you were working on motions and some of those motions you'd dealt with before Paul's vote, so that's where the vote case. I don't really, I'm not really doing illegal, more understand, understand, but, you know, you're, Paul's dad, you're a lawyer, you're definitely going to know what's going on. Yeah. I mean, so what were those motions? I mean, did it deal with Parkers or was it natural? Vote accident or it was the civil, it was the civil case. What time did you leave?

11:21 I can get home. Earlier then, no, um, I'd say 5'30", so when you left the office, we started, okay. What time did Paul get home then, right? Um, me and Paul, we got there about the same time. Maybe he was a little bit later than me, or maybe a little bit earlier than me, but it was close to the same time. And y'all were around the farm, um, and we could sit in two different trucks, or two different vehicles, instead of what were those two different vehicles.

12:03 Oh, we were going to in the wine pickup truck, and we rode in the back pickup truck. And either one of those, did you see any strong guys, and take your time? It's okay. Did you see any rifles or shotguns? Um, I don't remember seeing any that day, no, we did have pistols. Yeah, there was a little bit more target presence. Not a little target presence. Yeah, it did shoot. Yeah. Well, we were going to be having a couple hours to look at everything.

12:44 All stuff Paul did on the floor, and, um, we just fit, you know, and I'm tired of getting it. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. No more, no more, no more. Hey. There you can do this? I could do it, huh? It started out.

13:28 Going to look at the sun of flowers, because we were worried about sunflowers. That was the first thing we looked at. We just rode. We just rode, we looked at it. I mean, we hadn't done it in a while. We just rode. All. We rode. All. We just talked about it. There. You know? This. One of the many things, even having chose to feed it swelled up. We were worried about blood pressure and stress on him. I mean, he had all this stuff, so amazingly, but I mean, we were just so worried about it. But I mean, we talked about that.

14:09 We talked about it flow on. We just talked about everything. Has Paul ever seen a doctor for? Let's do it. Do the sir. We're not trying to get him a good, trying to get him a pill. Can you just resist him? Yeah, he had been resistant, but much less so after his feet swelled up. I mean, he'd been having all kind of little problems, but he much less after his feet swelled up. Because his parents, I'm sure you and Maggie stay don't have a problem with how he respond to you. To going out. To going to the doctor.

14:49 You know, you know, talk about it. He's there, is this? I mean, we've talked to him about seeing a doctor, about the stresses of everything with the boat red. He didn't think you needed to do that. I mean, we tried to watch him really closely. But he was resistant. What's on the back of the back on the right? Later.

15:29 I'd say probably the best I can tell a couple hours after. After us, after we got there, when you were turned, when you were in Paul, we turned back to the house and Maggie there. I can't remember if Maggie came by the shed from Paul when I were up there or if he met her at the house. But, you know, it's not unusual for her if we're messing around, trying to sweep her up there.

16:11 I didn't know. I didn't know. All right. Did you hear what was just said? Alex says Maggie came home because she was worried about his dad and that's key because up until this point we did not know that Alex and Maggie were having problems. And she was not even living at Moe's L at the time of her murder. Also in that clip, Alex exhibits again a tail, tail sign he is lying.

16:55 He's talking way too much. He's expanding on the questions and answering questions before he is even asked the question which shows he's been thinking about it prior to being asked the question. Probably relived that interrogation in his head the night before 100 times and that fake crying y'all. That's about the most irritating cry in the world. Alex Martall. Anyway, we'll proceed with the interrogation. The man was supposed to be coming from, I've seen him stand out. She was worried about me and me worrying about my dad and some she came home.

17:47 Where was she going to stay that night? At Addestok. We were having work going down there. It wasn't 100 percent but it's pretty well. She was going to stay at Addestok. It's not kind of surprising that she came out. I didn't totally surprise me. She'd let me know earlier that she was coming home but then I found out later why she came home. She was going to stay there for you. What time did you also come here to get out? Not too long after that. The block had made dinner. Instead of three of us ate dinner together.

18:36 What was the conversation around the dinner table? You know, the breakfast stuff. I mean I can't tell you exactly but I was mighty disappointed in Charleston that day. I think it'd be on good. We didn't really, I mean we didn't really get the chance to talk about it in detail. She's been having a couple of medical issues. I can't even remember which one it wasn't anything huge. I can't remember exactly which one she went for.

19:17 And after dinner, back in home. Looked at the gills or anything. You know, I don't know exactly how that went. I stayed on the couch and I do stuff. And then I got up. Did you watch TV? I know a TV was, I believe the TV was on.

19:58 Then I was watching it. There is a video on Paul's phone from Union home phone that night. You were in the Tech-A-Pants and a dress shirt. You were playing with a tree. I don't know who played with a tree. I guess there was a tree set up on the shelf and it was falling over or bending over. You were trying to get it stand back. But the question in that is when I met you that night, you were in shorts and you'd be shirted. What flight and that even did you change clothes?

20:41 Right there, the first bomb drops for Alex. So Alex is weaving this story, right? Everything he did the day and night of the murders. But at no point does he mention changing clothes? And what Alex didn't realize until right there at that very moment of that interrogation was there was a video of him in a completely different set of clothes than what Detective Owen saw him have on at the crime scene. Alex must have completely forgot he had a hunting camera in a tree.

21:26 In that hunting camera, caught him earlier that day with Paul on the property in dress clothes, khaki pants and a collared shirt. However, when he was at the scene of those murders and Detective walked up, he had on a t-shirt in shorts. But he never mentioned in any of these prior interrogations, anything about changing clothes. So his story is unraveling right before our eyes. And in the interrogation video, which I'm going to upload to patron, you got to see his reaction when he's asked. So Alex, when did you change clothes?

22:11 It is classic. We continue on. I'm not sure how it would have been before they had a record of it. What time of day was that? I would have thought that I'd already changed. There is not a time. I was down moment because there are so many posts. But I want to say it looks to be about a dusk, so that would then set in 30 to 40. I guess that changed when I got back to the house.

22:53 Earlier when, earlier when we spoke, then you'd talk about waking up from your nap and then going to check on your mother. And you try to call Maggie, you try to call Paul, and then you send that or send that to the text that you were going to check on your mother. You also told me that Maggie didn't normally go with you to check on your mother, but that she might run out that night. Did you give her a check on her? Did my check on her mom? Maggie, before you left you go? No, I did.

23:35 With her, I was calling to you. And thinking that she might run with you, I didn't know. I don't remember how to plan, that Maggie was going to ride with me. But maybe she had told me that she was that night. I don't remember that specifically, but I wasn't. She did have normally go with me. I mean, it's not like we had plans that she was going to ride with me, but if she was going from...

24:21 I needed you to just max on a poor awful people. What brought you to take it from Mozilla to your mom's? I would have gone to Ride on Mozilla road, 63 in the barn now, turned left on the road right before 6, 278, 6, 0, 1, and then in front of the school, turned right as I was leaving.

25:12 Now what you just heard was Alex trying to explain that he doesn't remember changing clothes, which is weird because he can remember everything else. He just can't remember that. Then, Detective Owen pulls out some Google maps and he's wanting Alex to explain how he traveled home at night and during the day that day. And the reason they're doing this is they're trying to figure out when he could have dumped the guns. Remember, they don't have the murder weapons. Now they don't tell him that, of course, but that's what they're doing. They're trying to figure out what his path would have been to and from that property to see if those murder weapons show up in a lake that was on the way or something.

26:01 But there was not a whole lot that came out of the conversation with those maps of any interest. So I cut some of that out. Then Detective Owen's asked Alex about visiting his mother because that's essentially Alex's alibi. He couldn't have done it because at the time the police had nailed down. You know, the murder had to happen between this time and this time. Alex was at his mother's. He couldn't have been at both places at once, right? That's his story. But Owen's presses him on that time frame in this club. How long did you go visit your mother?

26:41 I mean, it wasn't in frequent. It wasn't all the time. I mean, visit her all the time of the day. You know, checking on her, especially with your bad name. She had been having a particularly, you know, she's got all the time, it's really bad or pretty bad. She had been particularly agitated. You know, when you're not being there, check on her more in the days and weeks.

27:34 Owen, my dad's passing in in a other glass, but several times a week, you know, any time. How long would you say your reaction was? 45 minutes an hour. You know, I didn't go anywhere. I went straight there. I did it.

28:22 I was a little earlier in the day when you were down at that shed and cannot miss. Owen, did you all this good? Is any injuries? Any dogs? Did he and I, that broken Gibson told me about the dog's tail? Did somebody say in this, "Leg was broken"? Stop it. Did he and I, that broken Gibson told me about the dog's tail?

29:04 Did somebody say in this, "Leg was broken"? Which one, which one's his dog? It's a chocolate puppy, I think. Leg went crooked, was the leg broken? Not that I know of. I can certainly see what's up in, might be wrong with his tail because when I was out here he was chasing his tail and I'm going to put it through the fence and trying to grab it. I'm going to put it up the energy. When you got back to him, was there?

29:45 When you got to him, you went in the, I went in the briefcase. To Maggie Paul. What dare work? Were there vehicles announced? Yes sir. How did they get countered at that night? Still, I was told that you were going to be out of town with that. The only thing that I could come up with is that black trope. Is that bus result of black trope? Yes sir. Does it normally stay down at the barn or is it stayed at the house? Both, both, both, erm, did Maggie ever walk down there? Maggie walked down there a lot.

30:26 But Paul, I mean, had just, it would, it would, you showed me so proved that Paul walked down there that night I would be surprised. Absolutely surprised. Well thinking about Paul's health, Constellman, do you think Maggie could have gotten to walk that night? So come on with what would be this one down? You know, it's possible, but again, that would be highly unusual. He would have taught Perry in the ride. And then highly unusual for him to walk.

31:12 So when you were at the kennels, you were just down there with Paul. You left, you went back to the house of him. You know, I mean Paul and I, I'm just knocking around up at the shop, the shed, the kennels, you know, just the whole property. And, and that was before there, yes sir. And you didn't go back down there after dinner until you were turned to a front, because it didn't in your mouth. Yes sir.

31:57 I've got information that Paul is going to find me. And Maggie was already in the background, and you were hurting the background. And that was prior to none. I heard a Roman Gibson asking me if I was up there who said he thought it was me. Detective Owens just dropped an even bigger bomb. This was the first time y'all that Alex Mardall found out he was actually on a recording with his voice in the background.

32:38 Now, Ruggand did ask Alex previous to this interrogation. As a matter of fact, he asked him just a couple of days after the martyrs when family was at the Mozilla property comforting Alex. He asked him if he was at the kennels and he let him know I could have sworn I heard you in the background. So Alex wasn't surprised the question would come up. However, he was surprised they had an on recording. And you can see it all over his face in the actual video that I'm uploading to patron. Let's see how Alex responds to being impressed about him being at those kennels after he lied.

33:18 And said he was not at the kennels with Paul and Maggie. Those of you at that non-accom. Yes sir. No sir. Not as my terms are right. Hey, could you think it could have been? No, I did. And Ruggand has been around your family for pretty much all of his life. Absolutely. He recognized you as your lawyers and you have a distinct voice. You think of anybody else that has always been the worst that he may have.

34:04 Listen to her. No sir. And when we were talking he had asked me that. So, and they didn't told me. Did he thought I was up there? Did that surprise him? Yes sir. So when you were drawing back to the kennels, you were drawing home from your mothers. And then they were here, were the dogs. They were like they were. No one, I didn't put dogs up.

34:47 So, they weren't run-moves. However they were. You have one point and no one called. You sit here. What you're talking to somebody else or something else. So, the dispatcher has asked me. If they're breathing and you said no. And she asked if you did you see anyone else in the area and you said no. She asked about guns near them and you said no.

35:29 And then you come and start moving around and you say here. I don't have any memory of saying that. I guess I have to listen to it. But I don't recall the dog being out. I'm certain that there was not a dog out. And I mean, there's other things people have told me about it. Not one call, but I don't remember.

36:13 I don't know here. I was calling the dog. Calling the dog, talking to somebody else. I don't know. That's why I'm asking. I mean, that's obviously there was nobody else out there. I'm saying, there's only internet, just... But nothing made no sense.

36:58 So, here in the battle one one call. And we also talked about that that night. You returned back to the house to get a shotgun. What door did you enter? The best that I can remember. I went in the side door. And I went straight to the gun. Where you focused on 8 different shotguns. And under this umbrella. Not this crab one. How do you normally load your shotguns? Avonters, load shotguns, special ways.

37:40 Different types of munitions. And I'm just seeing how you look towards it. I mean, I normally put it in the chamber and push the button. What types, what type of shotguns do you load? All kind of... I mean, not loaded. Birdshot, buckshot, slugs. And the same shot at the same time. I mean, would you load like a birdshot and a buckshot in the same load?

38:20 Not normally. I mean, normally you put it in, you know, a load for whatever you're going to. The reason I'm asking about that. The shot shells that we covered at night. One was a turkey load. One was a buckshot. I don't know if we should do that. The shotgun that you had with you at night. There was a birdshot and a buckshot. Once you have went back the next day, I'm not sure which attorney it was.

39:02 pointed out that they're having a shotgun laying on the pool table. And he put away in point down that ammunition. That was with that, and it was a buckshot and a birdshot. And then the shotgun that we took for potential comparison. It was also loaded with a birdshot and a buckshot. So I have all these consistent loads along with what's up in the feed room. I call it the feed room. And it gills as well. But you call it? That's something. It's something good enough. Okay. I just want you to say feed room. I just want you to know what I'm talking about. The night I grabbed the shells that I could get my hands on, I had no idea exactly what I had.

39:52 Busted at this point, Alex knows he's fucked. He knows the detectives know he's been lying. And again, you can see it all over his face. If you notice in that clip, Detective Owen is trying to give him kind of an out trying to see if Alex will just take the bait and say that Rogan was wrong and it was someone else's voice in the background. And even asked him, is it possible he misinterpreted your voice? And Alex actually admits that Rogan could not have misinterpreted his voice.

40:33 And that was a genius move on the part of the detective. Because when Alex said that, the detective had Alex saying it had to be me at those kennels essentially without saying it. And y'all know it ain't hard to figure out if it's Alex Marta or not on that recording. Because he has one of the most aggravating voices according to the responses that I'm getting on the Facebook page that anyone could possibly have. It's definitely distinctive. Now he also mentions the 911 call. And he says that Alex in the 911 call is heard saying here to somebody.

41:20 And I played that for you several episodes ago that full 911 call. And indeed he does say here at one point. And again, the detective says was a dog out of the kennel. And you were saying here calling the dog and it was Alex that offered up and said no dogs were out of the kennel. But it begs the question. Was he handing something to an accomplice? And while you're simmering on that, we'll get into the buckshot and birdshot loads they were talking about with him. And what they were talking about they were referencing on the scene that they found Paul shot and there were two different types of shotgun shells.

42:04 One type of load was buckshot. One type of load was birdshot. And y'all it's very irregular for both loads to be in the same shotgun at the same time. Usually it's one of the other. And why would he press Alex so hard on that? And I'll tell you the answer. It's because the shotgun that Alex grabbed remember he left the kennels, went to the house, got a shotgun and came back because he was quote unquote scared. That shotgun was loaded with two different types of loads, birdshot and buckshot.

42:46 And y'all that is so irregular. It almost automatically connects Alex to the crime. But we continue. Also when we talked, I asked you if it was Paul keep guns down at the junk. And he said you had to check. Have you been able to check to see what was missing from your collection? I have. Yes, I know what's missing from what I believe is missing from our guns. And what are those? There's three guns that I think are missing.

43:31 And what kind of guns is this? There would be a finale shotgun, a brownie shotgun and a coke shotgun. The finale and the brownie and the copper audits. The finale and the brownie are automatic. And the whole shotgun and the friends that I believe it's aremic to it but I'm not positive. Well then you know, they like standard brown, black, all black or camel. The, the, the, the, the black, the brownie is camel and the coke is camel.

44:17 Would you have to see her numbers recording there? I don't have them recorded but I'm sure. I don't know where to pump. Stop the exactly came from but I should be able to have the finale and the brownie. We don't know if they're stolen or where they are. So I really can't get them entered into NCIC. Go ahead. But I could have large ATF to where if that gun is run, that there wouldn't be a lot on it and it would help you.

45:00 At least back to the gun and the person that may have had it. Absolutely. So if we work on that, it does. It seems possible. Actually we said the finale is black, white, camel and the pulp is camel. Yes, they are. Okay. The brownie is a brown camo and the pump is a green camo. And you know, I understand also that a 300 was used that night. And I know there's been some, I understand John Battingfield said he only had two of those.

45:47 One of which was lost three a long time ago but I'm telling you now I am certain that we replaced that gun. All right. Actually John knows that he sold Maggie be third gun. Okay. Okay. And the story was that she was supposed to let you know that she paid for it for you to go sign the paperwork. And that never occurred. Okay. So that's right. It wasn't a number. Okay. He has to, he has to know. He just doesn't have any thought of sale on the ATF paper. That was a place in the world. I think it's a fall loss, yes, that's dread.

46:36 And both of those 300 serial numbers or with the ATF and flagged in the system. So when they pop up, they give you to those. Okay. And that's, you know, we talked about the shopshelves. So the cartridge casings, which we're going to have blackout cartridge casings, that were found by Maggie. There were also cartridge casings found by your house by the side of the world together. And that's your chute range. Maggie. There were also cartridge casings found by your house by the side of the world together. And at the chute range.

47:18 The ones by the house and some of the ones found at the chute range are confirmed matches to the ones found by Maggie. Okay. So, which gives another concern. I've got the same load as the shopshelves in multiple guns and 300 blackout. That match was one time in your property. So you now believe it does not cause guns for the cheese. Yes. Okay. And the plot thickens as you just heard it. Detective Owen drops probably the biggest bomb of the day.

47:59 And something Alex knew nothing about. So he mentions those spent cartridges, the bullet casings, that were fired from a 300 blackout that was used to kill Maggie. And he mentions those casings, those spent casings were found around her body. But what he just informed Alex of was the fact that the same spent cartridges were found on another part of the property, totally separate from that night. But yet they were fired from the same gun. That's huge. Probably the biggest piece of evidence so far that Alex just became aware of.

48:40 And let me tell you how they know that. Unlike when you fire a shotgun, a shotgun uses shells. Spent bullets when they are fired from a rifle they create striations. And that happens in pistols as well. But in this case we're talking about rifles. The striations are basically lines in that spent bullet casing as you fire it. And those striations marks they're unique from gun to gun, kind of like fingerprints. So this is valid proof that Paul's missing 300 blackout was used to kill Maggie. valid proof we continue.

49:39 Nolan recalls Paul's first 300 going missing around Halloween at a 40th hand. Halloween of 2020? Win the job. No, that's not true. No, no, no, no. It was, it was whatever Christmas you got it. So 17th Christmas of 17th. So it was the Halloween after in 18th is when Nolan leaves it was taken out of Paul's truck. There was a lot of them. It was taken along a lot of these notes but a Mark Williams or Matt Williams.

50:22 So family friend. And I'm I'm a head and a wrong but there was hundreds of people at this Halloween party. Nolan says the dolls were there, kids were there. And he knows, Nolan knows that he goes in Paul's truck when they got to the party and when they went to leave the party, he upstairs. So that's the time when that got this missing. It's been a while.

51:12 Another part in the novel one call, you made the comment I should have known. And the question that's around it, you can just imagine asking as anybody else supposed to be at the house. And you said no man, please hurry. And she says we're getting somebody out there to you. And your next comment was I should have known. What do you reference in investigate? I don't remember saying that but I guess you know all the threats and you know you have been convinced it was something to do with both red and you know all of that.

52:03 All of it physical with you. They were getting too, he should have already been able to get physical. One time, I mean you little bit where he would have listened to me. Did you ever get physical with him? No sorry. I'm not a magnet of all get physical with magnet. I'm sure she probably went too much times. I just wanted to do it all.

52:51 And the one time Paul did that he had had too much to drink in a very isolated, insular. Where was that? Was that a museum or? That was that museum. That was pretty recent. No sir. It did that. A lot. When you turn, Paul and yourself on top of you pick it up and you're staying with something like I thought about doing something but then I'll put it back down.

53:36 And I was the end to you. Our first end of you. I don't know. I mean it. When I went up to you and the phone came out. I don't remember having the intentions of doing anything with the phone. I moved back with you. You don't ate dinner together after a miss Maggie got home and you have all got back from running around. Can you estimate about how long you got what a bit of a dinner table or eight? I mean it wasn't any long drum out dinner. You know, just...

54:23 I mean, it just... I guess it's not about any... You said there was a conversation at the dinner table but... You had D20 minutes? Okay, I don't know how it takes it. Is this yes? Okay.

55:04 He... I'll be right back. You just earlier about when you all ran around the port. And you said, "Y'all have... the pistol gun, the pistol on the pro-coyote shot a few times. Really not hard to bite some shot a few times." You said that you had... on that day you didn't see any long guns, right? For shotguns in the vehicle prior to that. How long prior to that? You recall seeing it guns or any guns in that vehicle. I mean, Paul always had guns. Okay, so... I mean, it was very unusual for Paul not to have guns.

55:50 And when you say "gunned rifles" or shotguns or everything, both... Okay, sir. His truck that he normal drove, I believe it was the flat-runs, went to the shop and that pride prior to... I think Mark... Mark Ball went and got some video from Jimmy Butler's that shows Paul dropping the truck off and not removing anything from it. So basically, he would have taken the rifles out at home. Do you know what can do with those rifles?

56:32 If he would have put them in a truck or if he put them in the house or... what do you? So the truck that he drove, where was it parked on that front? Where would be a small day or thing now? I'm not sure... I'm not sure where it was parked on the truck that he drove on Friday. What did he... what truck did he swap out from? I think when he went to Charleston, Dale said that he helped those trucks about two more than the white forts.

57:17 And I never wanted to gas it. I wanted to diesel. You know what I mean? So it wouldn't have been the gas truck going to Charleston. I'm not sure. So this occurred the Friday before everything happened? Yes, sir. I'm not sure on Friday, erm... I don't stay in the hospital with my dad. I don't believe that I saw Paul.

58:10 On Friday, when Joe got off the Columbia. Oh, Saturday. What if Paul got off the truck? You know, I mean Paul, see it. I mean, he'd have to go to sports when he was a crown, but that wasn't his thing. He'd go... is that always... how it's always been? Or... because of the moving stuff? No, no, no. He was an interballer as much.

59:02 One thing that I'm trying to understand is your timeline. You said you'd probably go to the office at 3, 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock, and you left early around 5 to 5, 30. And there's been some other timelines, sort of, times that we've talked about. You can't quite remember what the times are or what time of day it was. When you dispatch your ass to you, when was the last time you saw Maggie and you were told Maggie? You said I don't have to have two hours to go. To me, that's, you know, a set... you can flip out thinking about it. You should route it off that time.

59:44 We're sitting here trying to figure out a timeline in... you have a troll coming up with a specific time. Tell me it's there. Tell me again what I said to the dispatcher. You said, "And I want to have a good probably two hours." And what time was that? That was when you were on phone, and then I would call it, "Made it 10/6."

1:00:26 So, given two hours, that would end eight. I mean, I think that's probably about... I think that's probably about right. So, you believe I'm giving you an inconsistent answer? No, I'm just trying to write my mind around it when I'm asking you what time you went to the office that day. What time you got home? You know, you said 5 to 530. I've gotten the court read out from the law firm, and it shows you going in at 530.

1:01:10 Going home, you know what I'm saying? And Randy says, "When he lived about 6 o'clock, you were still there." So, the times are...matchin' up. I'm just trying to get an understanding of the law. I believe I left...that's not the first time I was at my office that day. There were several readings which the court wouldn't work. So, they actually had to let you in. But I've got your court opening the door at the law firm at 530.

1:01:52 And then, Randy saying, "When he left at 6, you were still there." I'm just trying to understand. You know, I left the office earlier than I normally did it. I was from a normal time to leave. I mean, it's not unusual for me to be there to a dark. I try to get home in Magizo, you know, 4-dawr. I shouldn't know what it's saying out there by myself or that's right. So, you know, it feels 530 or 6. I don't think I was still there at 6 o'clock.

1:02:36 But, you know, if I was, it wasn't long after that. So, you know, I wouldn't...I believe that I went straight home. So, you know, my car had been able to get to share my latest animal, my horse, do work, and all that. Okay. That's a long process. I mean, I got home early enough for Paul and I to ride the property for a substantial length of time.

1:03:25 You know, more than an hour, I thought probably a couple of hours. That we were to get somewhere jumping down the river. We rode down all the roads, I believe. I believe that we... I mean, we rode all of them. We rode all of them. Okay. So, what is David Owen doing here? Absolutely hammering that timeline. And he found a lot of discrepancies in what Alex was saying versus what he knew from investigating the case.

1:04:12 One of those things that he brought up was the cord used to access Alex's office was showing one time in where Alex was claiming he was at that time, which was 530pm, was somewhere completely different. So, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out either somebody took your cord and went in your office and unlocked the door or you're lying. And listen closely to this one. David Owen's breaks down a little of what he feels occurred that night. It's in this clip.

1:04:52 I've been able to answer some of your questions. I know you probably have no... but with my questions trying to get things cleared off about... didn't you say answers? Well, I mean, I do know more than I did for years. I said, "Yes, I mean, some of those questions have certainly..." Yes, sir. What else is it? What other questions do you have there? I would like to know exactly what happened.

1:05:37 Me too. The best is that I've been able to put together. Till at least, look at Alex. We're going to get an answer. I believe... I'll always have first. I thought it was going to be a stupid fact that we were just looking at it. We have to stop twice. I thought it was going to be a stupid fact because we could go in and turn it back in.

1:06:21 We may honestly never know who was first. But I think it was Paul for the simple fact. He wouldn't have if he saw his mother in a shot. He wouldn't have run to that fever. Unless that's where one of the guns was. But, you know, we've already established family guns were used. If they came from Paul's truck, Paul's truck was at house. So, where were they?

1:07:03 Not at the beginning, but how did they get down there? I mean, it's normal for y'all to leave your keys in the cars. However, if somebody showed up and did this, you're not going to take Paul's truck back into the house and leave the key to it. But, you know, we've already established family guns were used. If they came from Paul's truck, Paul's truck was at house. So, where were they? Not at the beginning, but how did they get down there? I mean, it's normal for y'all to leave your keys in the cars.

1:07:45 However, if somebody showed up and did this, you're not going to take Paul's truck back into the house and leave the key to it. Do you know that the guns were at the truck? Could they have been somewhere else? They could have been somewhere else. I mean, he wasn't taking it. He didn't have his normal truck. I understand that no one to believe he saw the gun three weeks before he had any. And I have a talk to him, but is he believes it was no one did? Not the one that was at the house.

1:08:26 I think it was a vanilla, but he was shotgun, and he always kept it. Paul always kept it with him. Paul primarily kept it. Yeah, he kept it. But, one of a couple of vanilla. Yeah, it was a camel vanilla. There's the last one at Paul that I'll know it's all. And, uh, HDD. Sometimes, but, so the middle of your rifle, is that? Do you have that book at home? Yes, sir. That's what he saw? That's what he saw. I was told by somebody that you know, saw a, um, 300.

1:09:08 He told me he had not seen a 300 cents march. He entered a Turkish season. Okay, well, somebody. Well, those were the go-to guns and those were the last ones that he saw. HDD and the vanilla. He had not seen a 300 cents march. He entered a Turkish season. And, he definitely saw it in a Turkish season because now it was some point in the back when it was missing at Christmas time.

1:09:55 The third one was missing at Christmas time? Yes, sir. So, um, anyway, if he saw it in March. You don't get any kind of forensic or anything, you'll find it. Just the rain in there. I mean, we got plenty of DNA from the scene, but, yeah. It's known since Rogan, since Alex, since Paul's, it's Maddie's, it's Buster's. Hey, can you tell me for sure?

1:10:35 Um, did you know about them? Who else? After they were shot first? Not long. Was that... I... the shoe would happen very quickly. Very quickly. Is this one person, two persons, three persons? It's important to note throughout the entire investigation up to this point that this is the first time Alex ever asked Detective Owen.

1:11:16 Throughout the whole investigation, if Detective Owen felt there was more than one person involved. The very first time that seems strange to me. We continue. We got two guns, we got two different types of ammunition, it's hard to say. Not me, who else is left here, no? Matter of seconds, give that. Thank you.

1:12:03 You all been able to get anything off, and we might be able to leave on any break days. Let me ask you this question. It comes from Randy. He'll tell you what you love this for. You know, they get a lot of friends in the community. From the upper echelon to the lowest socioeconomic level.

1:12:50 They think that they can ask people to keep their sound, loose lips, talking, and that kind of stuff. But they don't want to reach out to anybody. Unless they think it's okay. I'm not talking about paying people to do stuff. The best of here is... Well, I'm talking Randy about this as well. He posed that question to me. I'm not going to ask anybody who walked from or anybody who found the hate to go out and see what you can find. And the fort begged me. Sure. Because then it could be construed as they were working as an agent in the state.

1:13:34 Sure. And I actually had to put... You didn't explain that. So I told Randy, I said, "I certainly can't stop you from going out." But I wouldn't ask them what they know. And they would report that to me telling the call me. Telling the call to the tip line, we have still some. Or if you hear somebody talking about it, encourage them to call. Or give me the name and I'll go call them. I hear it. I don't know if you know how many, I mean, not anything.

1:14:15 It's not snuffing at all. That really makes you think, "Hey, this is look good." We know, like I said, we only do have the DNA we have. Our family is close friends. We don't have any favorite ones. We don't have, unfortunately, we don't have any shoe wear or tire wear or dress and impressions because it rained that night. The only thing that we can go off of are the cell tower dumps. Or the FBI was out and they were out on your property on Friday, right, and right, and trying to get some cell phone data.

1:14:58 Unfortunately, all of that takes time. You'll have to send the, because this vehicle is new, you have to send that off. It says, "Not tonight." When we hire X-Bar City Command and just download it. It's 2021 and they don't have the system support yet. But they're working near a forgating system. From what I understand. No, I don't know exactly how the on-star thing works out of control. But this is something different. Where's all the contained in the same thing?

1:15:38 They're two different systems that we took out. One is on-star and the other one is the telemetry system or info-tank that's on it. The FBI says there is information there. They just have to be able to extract it from shooting and reporting. I'll see you just wait for this. I'm waiting on the search warrant from on-star. Let's see what kind of information they can give me. You need to bust sign something, X-Bitite's that. I told you, "I don't need a car, but whoever we need to, we'll sign whatever authorization you need."

1:16:23 So you had said that, or maybe Jim told me or something about, "Y'all were able to get a pulse phone just for the search warrant." We have a call of partial download because we don't have the passcode. We can't do a full extraction. Do you think? My thought was that I don't know who's required to authorize a couple to open it. I know that they think they want to do it in whatever case.

1:17:04 But I thought that if we... I think Maggie in the phone. I think it was in her name, the account was in her name. You have to have your own separate iCloud account for each phone. We've done that for Maggie's pulse and Alex. I cloud accounts to see if there was anything in there. There was nothing in Paul's. I'm still waiting on Maggie's. Maggie did that curse off? I know that. Does that mean Paul didn't back his up? Probably.

1:17:45 My thought was, and I don't know if this is even possible, but if we get the estate, we get the personal representative. He was now the authorize person. The authorize is to be open. I mean, around about 100 lawyers. We did it a bit time ago. I don't have the power appointment done there. Two days, we can offer us whatever it is you need to open. That might be beneficial. I know nothing wrong with that. Somebody not talked about that before. Well, I do it in any other extent. Who would be the representative?

1:18:26 Just somebody to offer them. Probably? No, for Maggie and Paul's estate? Yeah. Probably me or... Who ever it is, it doesn't matter. Who ever it is, would be whatever you all need to do. It won't be united that and be uncooperative. Well, I mean, if you all go ahead and start working on that, then we'll reach out to Apple and figure out how we did that accomplished. All right? Because there's gotta be something there. There's gotta be something there.

1:19:07 Um... I can't make any of those. I mean, have you all had to track down all the black guys on the internet? Or just only the ones that you think seem a little more... The opportunity and the inclination, you know? There's been a few. There's been a few that I'm looking at. Yeah. But somebody information is just so far-fetched. I talked with one guy. He called it and said, "Well, I knew that Maggie's son bought a house right around the corner." I'm like, "Okay, well, they did."

1:19:49 That Maggie had left her husband some time ago. It was going to move to Florida to be closer to her father. Because the mother was dead. And I'm like, "Okay, thank you, Bob." So there's a lot of that stuff. Yeah. People that want to get involved. People that think they have some information. You know, especially the matter of death, they're all in the place. Well, I mean, you know, I've been talking to Lincoln in the press about not disclosing stuff, but Jesus Christ now. You don't have anything to disclose. And, you know, why are you going to tell a bad guy what you got?

1:20:32 I mean, I just don't understand it. I mean, look. Nobody wants to know more than this man right here and this man right here. Everybody else? They have far, far, far, far, far, far, far, content with the, you know, the shot. If you're one of them, no, the other one was dead. Or have been shot. I think it's impossible. I think it is impossible. But you certainly published your first?

1:21:13 I believe he was. I'm not certain. I believe he was. Maggie would have known it had been with you. You long ago, how soon I asked her what she was shot? And it all depends on how many shoes are there. I mean, if we're looking at two shooters, it could happen at the same time. If we're looking at one shooter, it would happen. And don't, I know, I know you can't help but think about it, but don't beat yourself up over getting the answer.

1:21:55 It's not going to do anything to you. When I ask you, now that you've talked to me, are you willing to, if you're some of my family, Maggie's, mom and dad, or sister, are you willing to talk to them? Okay. I know, I'll meet them where they want to. I mean, I'll meet them. And I'll see them. I know, I mean, I live in Charleston, so it's not something for me to shoot up to someone willing, maybe the grandsters.

1:22:42 Thank you. I know you all are doing everything you can. And I don't think any person would think that you're asking me these questions. And then you got to do what you got to do. Well, then I hate to give any questions to the media. But with the media, keep going, you in there. You got to ask questions. If I can get every bit of evidence possible, that's going to exonerate. Then you get my car stuff, I don't help.

1:23:27 You said earlier, Maggie didn't like staying up to bar sales. Was there any kind of, I know we asked you once before in the world earlier interviews about cameras. And if you all had talked about doing any kind of camera system out there, stuff getting missing, Maggie talking about stuff getting missing. You know, we hear that type of stuff. We never really had problems with stuff missing. But we still talked about getting cameras and doing all of that. But we said done it. We talked about it for a while.

1:24:08 Not really any conversation about stuff up and walking away or getting missing between you and me. Any conversations between me and Maggie about stuff? You and Paul either want about stuff that had been missing or somebody came up and taken from the bar or from the house or anything like that. The only thing that I can remember being discussed, missing with some drills and some no-hockey tools. How long ago was that?

1:24:48 A couple of, it was sent CB. Got hired. Pretty sure. Because that was one of the things Paul, when he was looking for him, he was going to ask CB. And I had a boy working out there for just a short period of Matt Loose.

1:25:30 Is that the first time you heard his name? The last name I heard. Matt Loose. I think it spelled O-U-C-E. Okay, so I brought you all the way through this thing. And finally, just before the interview wrapped up at the best time possible when he could catch Alex completely off guard, Detective Owens asked the question, "We have probably all been waiting for." Listen to this. A few more questions.

1:26:11 Did you kill Maggie? No. Did I kill my wife? Yes. No, lady. Did you not kill Paul? No, I did not. Who did it? Did you kill Paul? No, I did not kill Paul. Did you not kill him? No, sir. I did not know who did. Do you think I killed Maggie? I have to go with the evidence in the fact that you did not kill him. I have to go with the evidence in the fact that I did not kill Paul. I have to go with the evidence in the fact that I did not kill him.

1:26:53 I have to go with the evidence in the fact that I did not kill him. I have to go with the evidence in the fact that you did not kill him. I have to go with the evidence in the fact that you did not kill him. With everything that we have talked about with the family guns, the ammunition, nobody else's DNA, I have to put my police aside and go with the facts. And there it was, straight up, and you could almost sense Alex Murdole squirm.

1:27:37 And shout out to sled detective David Owens. I've seen well over a thousand interrogation videos, total, doing what I do. And I am telling you this may be one of the best interrogations I've ever seen. Perfect job by detective Owens. And there you have it. Now, next week, we will pick up with what occurred immediately following this interview and if you think things are crazy now, just wait until you find out what happens next.

1:28:33 I want to thank everyone for listening. Please continue to share the podcast. It is how we grow. Thank you to all of you who have rated us on whatever podcast platform you're listening to. If you have not yet done so, please give us a rating. I can't tell you how much that helps push us up the feed. The more people that hear this, the more successful this podcast becomes.

1:29:13 The more we can continue it. And it's so important right now. Thank you so much. Check out the Patreon. We do all kinds of stuff on that page. We upload case documents for upper tier level members. We give bonus episodes. We give early releases that are commercial free. And hey, if you're a top tier global celebrity, you get shout out. You get quarterly gifts. You have not got one and you are a global celebrity. That's our top tier on Patreon. Hit me up and let me know. And I'll make sure you get that.

1:29:54 And until next time for exposed scandalous files of the elite, I'm your host, Jim Chapman. Much love. [Music]