EMERGENCY Episode: Where is Nancy Guthrie?

0:20 Hey everyone, and welcome back to Exposed Scandalous Files of the Elite. I'm your host, Jim Chapman, and I am bringing you the case today that everybody all over the country is talking about, and that is where is Nancy Guthrie. Now. I was going to originally release this as a Patreon episode, a bonus episode, but I had a little debate with myself, if you will, on whether I should do that or release it as a regular release for everybody. I went with a regular release because I feel like it is so important if I can do anything to get the word out on this case, it's very important that I do that, and I didn't want to limit that to just Patreon members. So for my Patreon celebrity members, you have a bonus episode coming your way very soon. I'm gonna go ahead and release this one for everybody now.

1:19 I've had probably twenty messages in the last week to cover my thoughts on the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, and I've kind of held off because I was hoping that she would be found by now, rescued by now. However, you want to tournament and y'all, especially with cases like this, it is really difficult to get the fact straight, especially in the beginning. Everybody is saying different things. Law enforcement keeps a lot of things very close to their vest as they should, so sometimes you have to let the smoke clear before you dive into something, and that's what I did in the hopes that the episode would not even be necessary, but sadly, it looks like that is not going to be the case. Nancy Guthrie is still missing currently as I'm recording this, and we are on day ten of her disappearance. So today I'm going to bring you through a little short history of who she was for those that may not be familiar, and I'm going to go through a timeline of the case, and at the end of this one, I'm going to offer my opinion of what possibly could have happened to Nancy Guthrie.

2:36 And that's all it is, is an opinion based off of seeing and researching cases like this for many, many years. So let's get into it and a little bit about Nancy. She moved to the Tucson, Arizona area in the early nineteen seventies, and of course that's where she would eventually go missing. Now, she was widowed, having been widowed in nineteen eighty eight when her husband, a guy by the name of Charles Guthrie, died in a mining accident in Mexico. And you need to keep this in mind. Mexico is only about thirty miles from where Nancy Guthriy currently lives.

3:17 I think that plays a part in this case, and I'm going to discuss that later on. Now, Nancy has three children, Savannah Guthrie, who is the co host of the Today Show, and that's the one who really has made all the difference in this case, I guess from a national perspective, and that's a plus and a minus. It's a plus because obviously anything that can shine a light on anybody that goes missing, much less the eighty four year old woman who seems by all accounts to be an absolute angel, it's a plus. Right when you're very popular in the media already, and Miss Nancy she hadn't even appeared on the Today Show several times, so people in the public had or felt like they had some sort of connection with Miss Nancy. Nows a minus from the perspective of you don't get this kind of spotlight on you typically in a case like this, you don't get the attention that this case has got, And I just wish that all cases would get this type of attention. But that's where we're at, and I'm glad that the attention is on it. So, in addition to Savannah, she also has two other children, another daughter who is married and a son who is not married. She lives alone in a home that has become so familiar now in the Tucson Arizona Foothills. And it's important to mention

4:49 that although Nancy is eighty four years old, a much older woman in her physical capability is not as strong as it once was. Right, age catches up with us all. She just doesn't get around like she used to, but her mental capacity is as sharp as attack. As a matter of fact, the lady may have an eighty four year old body, but her mind is not what your typical eighty four year old would be, and that's important. She is described as very independent, and she's been described as very faithful and loyal, a very active church goer in her community. Now, all of that being said, like most eighty four year olds, she requires medication, which has become a key component in this case. And she has a pacemaker. So that's a little bit about her. Now let's get into the timeline of what occurred that we know, and we're gonna start with her last known movements. So on Saturday, January thirty, first of twenty twenty six, at five thirty two pm, she calls an uber and she goes to her daughter a house. She's gonna have dinner, she's gonna have game night. Common thing when you live close to your kids and you're that age. Nothing strange there in my view. At nine to forty eight pm, she's dropped back off at her home by her son in law, and they know the exact time that she

6:20 was dropped off because the garage door had some sort of censor on it, and it opens at nine forty eight pm, then it shuts two minutes later at nine point fifty. So far, so good, nothing out of the ordinary. And it's important to note as I bring you this timeline that some of the times that I'm gonna reference they're obviously not known yet until she was reported missing. But now that we know them, I'm gonna stay in order, and I'm gonna give you the timeline in the way that we know it to be. So at one forty seven am, her doorbell slash nest cam disconnects. Then at two twenty eight am, her pacemaker disconnects from her phone. Now, I want to take a minute and I want to just explain this the best way that I've come up with to explain it, because just about everybody out there that's listening right now has worn AirPods at one point or another, and they know how they work. If you're wearing AirPods and you walk too far from your phone, your AirPods will disconnect from your bluetooth. This happens to me often and it's always frustrating. Just think of it like this. If you're in your yard and your phone is hooked up to your AirPods, you're fine, but you walk to your neighbor's house, you lose that connection. Right, This is the exact same premise here. It doesn't mean

7:51 miss Nancy's heart stopped beating. It simply means her body was too far away from her phone for the pace to be able to communicate with bluetooth. So the pacemaker just simply disconnected from the Bluetooth on the phone. Now, that's a very important aspect of this timeline because she would have had to have been removed from her home for that to occur. So it's pretty safe to say the police have zeroed in on the time in particular to which she was physically kidnapped and brought off her property or at least away from her home, because she had kind of an expanse of property. So moving on to the morning of February first, at around eleven o'clock am, a church goer contacts the family of Nancy Guthrie. And this is also something that's not uncommon when you have elderly parents, right, people that they spend a lot of time around. You're going to give them your phone number if you're the daughter or the son or whatever, and you're going to say, hey, if you ever need me, there's ever an emergency with my mother, please call me or text me or whatever. Now, apparently Nancy was scheduled to attend a church service online and she didn't join the room, and that was apparently very strange, very unlike her to miss these church zoom sessions, if you will.

9:21 So the family is contacted and made aware that she failed to join this online church service, this virtual church service, and from what I understand, her daughter and son in law. They go check on her at her house upon hearing this. This is at eleven fifty six am when they get there, and they immediately call police just about eight minutes later, this is at twelve three pm, and by twelve fifteen that morning of February first, police had already arrived at the residence and it didn't take long for police to realize we got a big problem here. Primarily it was due to evidence that was obvious on the scene when they got there, So let's talk about this quickly. Police find blood stains on the front porch and entrance, which they would collect incidentally, and DNA analysis would be performed on that blood and it was determined that it was definitely Nancy Guthrie's blood. Now, they were also able to determine via this blood the way in which it fell that it was consistent with her being held upright, so she wasn't being dragged out of the home or putting up a fight being pulled out of the home. She might have been helped out of the home and assisted, but she was upright, standing and walking, and it was

10:51 droplets of blood, so it was not a situation where you have a gunshot and there's a bunch of blood spider on one wall, or you have a stabbing incident where there's just blood everywhere. This was just little droplets of blood on the concrete, and that was a positive sign. It meant she was not shot or stabbed to death. And it appeared that although she had some sort of injury which caused this bleeding, it was not consistent with anything that would be considered life threatening. They also noticed that the doorbell slash nest camera had been removed, and important to say this, there's some inconsistent information here, so I'm not going to report because we don't know what reports are accurate and what's not. It hasn't been cooperated one way or the other by police. But some reports say the doorbell camera was smashed and you're just kind of lying there, smashed on the ground. And some people say the doorbell camera was actually taken by the assailant.

11:58 I mean the actual the physical piece. The truth is, nobody really knows outside of the police one way or the other. So I'm not gonna opine either way, but I can tell you this with absolute certainty. The camera was fiddled with. If you will now some more evidence of the scene. Also pointed to something sinister occurring was the fact that her medications were all still at home, and had she left home of her own free will, obviously she would have brought that medication with her. Her cell phone was also still at her home. Anytime your cell phone is not with you and you're missing not a good sign, right. So the point of all that is to say that the police knew right from the beginning this is likely a kidnapping. The only other option that ran through people's minds as a possibility outside of that was that you hear sometimes about all timers cases where someone suffering from that condition, or maybe has a predisposition to that condition, will wander off in the middle of the night and get lost. But this was ruled out very quickly. However, in Nancy's case, because of how sharp Nancy Guthrie was, there was just no way that would have occurred. So the scene is processed and a search around the home begins. Now it's important to mention

13:29 this is normal, even if you think she might have been taken off the property. You work the scene from inside out. Think of it as a giant circle with the house in the middle of that circle, and you've got a search around that property. Even though it was pretty apparent this was a kidnapping pretty quick, it doesn't mean God forbid that she wasn't killed and disposed of right there on the property. So they have to do their job, the local police. Right now. That's same day, at six forty six pm, the Pima County Sheriff's Office, they publicly announced the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, and all shit hits the fan from that point forward. Her daughter, Savannah very beloved in the media, as I mentioned, very well known by some huge media personalities, and everybody's wanting to help their friend, right, so everybody jumps on this case.

14:30 And it was interesting that some of my fellow true crime podcasters slash journalists really hit this one headfirst. I'm talking Nancy Grace, Ashley Banfield, Megan Kelly, just to name a few, were really all over this from jump Street. So the next day, Monday, February two of twenty twenty six, authorties officially come out and they announced that they believe she was taken against her will, meaning abducted from the residance, and they asked neighbors. At this point in the area and businesses to review their doorbell cameras or footage from their businesses and see if they see anything strange that they would feel the police need to know about. And y'all, I cannot stress how important this is. If you'll remember, in the Brian Coburger case, he was caught primarily from footage that was caught on a camera at a gas station.

15:34 In that case, a curious worker at the gas station, after seeing a report from police regarding the travel time of the suspect they were looking for, just look through archive footage on that camera and saw a car matching the description of the car police were looking for, and that is what put them on the trail initially in the Brian Coburger case. So it's an interesting point that sometimes law enforcement will look at media as a hindrance in an investigation, but many times, especially in cases where there are not a whole lot of leads, it's the media that you need the most. And that's a fact.

16:19 So into day two, and shortly after police ask for the public's help in checking those cameras, a local TV station receives a ransom note. Now this ransom note was received in an interesting way. It was actually sent through a questionnaire on the website of the TV station, which obviously would make it harder to track who sent it because you're not sending it from an email, so you can put in a bullshit email address and there it's just really hard to track that if you're using like masking software for your IP address. Ze also received a ransom note, and over the past week or so, we've learned more about what was demanded in those ransom notes. Now, in the first ransom note that I'm referencing, millions in bitcoin was demanded, and the reason I'm not super specific on the amount of bigcoin is again there's varying accounts of how much that was. Some people say the first ransom note referenced one million in bigcoin and the second one reference six million in bitcoin. Again speculation on exactly how much, but rest assured millions of dollars in bitcoin.

17:38 And also in this ransom note, there were some hints as to hey, this is how you know that I'm the legitimate kidnapper or kidnappers, And apparently this person made a reference to an Apple watch in its placement in the house or its status of some sort, and they also referenced a floodlight, something to do with a floodline. It was never made public exactly what they referenced, but there you have it. It was something only the kidnapper would know, and the information appeared accurate because the FBI considered this a very credible ransom. Note. Now, it's also at this point that Savannah Guthrie speaks out for the first time via Instagram and a post that she makes of essentially asking for prayers. And it's also at this point the investigation shifts completely into a criminal abduction case.

18:35 They have figured out by this time early on that this lady can just walk away from her house. They're one hundred percent sure of it, and everything shifts. So we move Intoday three, and it starts out with a press conference from the sheriff where he confirms again that the abduction and that there are one hundred percent sure of that, and he reiterates at that time that there are no suspects or persons of n trusts that are identified. And I want to take a second to focus on this because it's important. Now there's some reporting out there from some very popular podcasts or slash journalists that had some sources that we're saying the son in law was being looked at as the prime suspect, the number one suspect, right.

19:21 And I've said this before and I will say it again here. When you work an investigation and you are the detective in that investigation, it is worked from the inside out. You take that circle of friends and that circle of family, and everyone outside of the detective is a suspect. And that's how you work a case. And it's sad but true that statistics will show that an extremely high percentage of the time, the people that are abducted or abducted by people that either know or they have some sort of relationship with. So it wasn't abnormal for police to start where they started. Now, I assure you Savannah was even being looked at. The other daughter was being looked at, Her son was being looked at in addition to that son in law just because they're related, no other reasons. And what a good investigator is going to do is start a process of ruling them out of that investigation. Now, I had somewhat of an issue with the amount of focus on this son in law because I felt like the guy was getting some really undeserved attention and focus placed on him, when this is detective work on every case in the country, and it could be said of anyone whose family member goes missing. Now,

20:53 of course that doesn't mean in a lot of cases it isn't someone you would never think it was. But you got to be real careful when you start naming prime suspects right from the jump and you're not the police, because that is a hard thing to deal with if you have nothing to do with it. So the sheriff in this situation, in this press conference, goes out of his way to make sure it's very clear that there is no prime suspect at that point in the investigation. Now, during the press conference, there were a lot of questions asked and very little questions answered. One sticks out to me in particular, and that was the forced entry question.

21:37 He kind of dodged that, he didn't answer it, and it was puzzling to me because that's not going to affect the investigation if a door was kicked in and you advertise that or you tell the public that. I don't see very many cases where they don't even say whether it was fourced entry or whether somebody upened the door. Now, in my opinion, look, this sheriff seems like the nicest guy in the world. He's probably a great sheriff. But I can tell you one thing, he was not ready for the media storm that came his way with this case. Nor would many sheriffs in the country be ready for something like this. In Tucson, Arizona, of all places, this case is everywhere. It's the most high profile case in the country, maybe one of the most high profile cases in recent times. And as I said, you're in Tucson, Arizona, this guy is really having to learn them the fly how to deal with seasoned national media correspondence. It's not an easy gig. So at this point, the FBI gets involved and they start canvassing the scene. The President comes out and he says any federal assistance that is needed will be given. And can you imagine the kidnapper or kidnappers at this point, you got the president of the United States that just came out and said all resources are at your disposal until we capture these people. That's

23:10 enough to make you shit your pants. I would bet you every dollar that these individuals or individual did not realize how big a deal this was going to be. So we're going to turn to day four, and this is a Wednesday, and during the day, the FBI in the local law enforcement, they go back to the residance, and this time they have canine assistance. Again, not extremely unusual. I can only assume there was a feeling like maybe she was kidnapped, still on the property, likely deceased. And you know, originally that scene was searched by local law enforcement. Now once the FBI got involved, they want to search it again themselves, and they want to make sure that nobody was missed, you know, spot in the bush, maybe behind something somebody else didn't see. Again, normal procedure from an investigative standpoint, and I saw some people in the media, primarily podcasters, building that up to be much more than it was in my opinion. Now, it's also on this day that a big change comes in this case, when the family of Nancy Guthrie speaks directly to the kidnapper or kidnappers for the first time. And I want you to listen to this club on.

24:32 Behalf of our family. We want to thank all of you for the prayers for our beloved mom Nancy. We feel them and we continue to believe that she feels them too. Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal, fiercely loving woman of goodness and liked. She's funny, spunky, and clever. She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd around her and cover her with kisses. She loves fun and adventure.

25:16 She is a devoted friend. She is full of kindness and knowledge. Talk to her and you'll. See the light is missing from our lives. Nancy is our mother. We are her children. She is our beacon. She holds fast to joy in all of life's circumstances. She chooses joy day after day, despite having already passed through great trials of pain and grief. We are always going to be merely human and just normal human people who need our mom. Mama, Mama, if you're listening, we need you to come home.

26:16 We missed you. Our mom is our heart and our home. She is eighty four years old. Her health, her heart, is fragile. She lives in constant pain. She is without any medicine. She needs it to survive, she needs it not to suffer. We too, have heard the reports about a ransom letter in the media. As a family, we are doing everything that we can. We are ready to talk. However, we live in a world where voices and images are easily manipulated. We need to know without a doubt that she is alive and that you have her. We want to hear from you, and we are ready to listen.

27:25 Please reach out to us, Mommy, if you are hearing this, you are a strong woman. You are God's precious daughter, Nancy. We believe and know that even in this valley, he is with you. Everyone is looking for you, Mommy, everywhere. We will not rest, Your children will not rest until we are together again. We speak to you every moment, and we pray without ceasing, and we rejoice in advance for the day that we hold you in our arms again.

28:18 We love him, We love you. Stay strong. So let's talk about that video for a second. And I know this is an audio podcast and you can't actually see the video, but I'm gonna do my best kind of paint a picture for you. In the video, you have both daughters, Savannah as well as her sister, as well as Nancy Guthrie's son. And a lot of people came out and they described the tone of that video as very strange, and I would concur I would agree with that for the most part, but people shouldn't understand something, and that is when they made this video.

29:00 One percent, the FBI scripted that plea, if you will, was their feelings. It was certainly their words. But tone is everything, and the FBI is going to make sure that your tone is very flat for the most part, that you're not overly emotional, which has got to be hard in a circumstance like this, right, anything you say in the wrong tone, however, can actually set this person or people off, so you have to be extremely careful. Now. In addition, I'm sure you noticed that the Sun did not say a whole lot. As a matter of fact, he had like one sentence at the very end in this video. And you can see in the video he's very stoic looking. He doesn't look pissed, he doesn't look upset, just very stoic. And all of that is intentional. The last thing that you want these people to feel is threatened.

30:01 And another man whose mom is missing, showing any sort of I want to kill your ass or I want to beat the shit out of you tone or body language even can set these people off. Again, I just could not imagine being in that guy's position. My heart goes out to really all three of these people, of course, and what they must be feeling. It's just awful. Now. Also in that video, you heard them reference what is very disturbing to me, and that is they ask for a proof of life, which is common in any situation like this, you must have a proof of life. But the disturbing thing is in this case there has not been one, at least that has not been released to the public, and that ain't good. When this happens, and it doesn't happen often in the United States like it does in other countries, but when this happens, almost always, there are numerous proofs of life throughout the ordinar. And that's because people that do this type of shit they know if they can't prove that the person is alive, there's a very small chance they're gonna get anything out of their demands. And that made me and still makes me very concerned. That's something none of us want to hear happened. Has happened. I just can't get past the fact they have not sent a picture or anything relative to whether this poor sweet lady is even alive. So the next day we're going into day five of this

31:34 ordeal of Thursday, and that original ransom deadline that was referenced in the original ransom letter passes. Now, one thing I didn't tell you when I initially mentioned that ransom letter was they had until Thursday, February fifth to pay the money or things we're gonna get more serious. So Thursday, February fifth comes, they had not paid the money yet because there has not been a proof of life. Also, on this day, a fifty thousand dollars reward is offered by the FBI, and Cameron Guthrie, the son that I spoke of from the initial video, he records his own video in an appeal to the kidnapper or kidnappers. Listen to this.

32:21 This is Cameron Guthrie. I'm speaking for the Guthrie family. Whoever is out there holding our mother. We want to hear from you. We haven't heard anything directly. We need you to reach out and we need a way to communicate with you so we can move forward. But first we have to know that you have our mom. We want to talk to you, and we are waiting for contact. So again in that video, you just heard very stoic, very little emotion, likely exactly how he was coached to do it. He didn't seem threatening, and he seemed willing to work with these guys, which again I just could not imagine being in this guy's position and what he really wanted to say to these assholes. Shout out to him for being able to hold it together. But time, you can tell, is becoming of the essence, and another day passes. Now on this day, what police term as an impostor is also arrested for, of all things, a fake ransom demand. Now this is not related to that initial ransom demand letter. This was another letter that police figured out really quickly. This is bullshit and how sick of a human being. As a matter of fact, you're not even a human being, You're a monster. How sick of a monster does it take to actually take advantage of this situation with a bullshit ransom letter? Someone that

33:52 would do something like that, In my opinion, you need life in prison. You don't need to see the outside of a prison for the rest of your miserable life. How sick do you have to be to do something like that? But moving on today's six in, a second ransom note is received apparently by a local news station in the area, and it's also deemed to be legitimate that details on what that ransom letter contained. But it's also on this day that the FBI finds and removes a camera from the roof of the home. Now, remember earlier when I told you it was not out of the ordinary for the FBI to go search the premises outside of the home after law enforcement had already done that same thing. Here, they're just kind of going over everything local law enforcement did. Once they take over an investigation or get involved, they're gonna double check everybody. Well, apparently someone from local law enforcement missed the camera on the roof and that huge evidence there. Now, thankfully the FBI went behind them, we're able to retrieve that camera.

35:07 No information however, as of yet, if anything was found on that camera. So now we're going in today seven and you're a week out from this investigation and things are really starting to get desperate, and the family once again reaches out via video on Instagram to speak to the kidnapper or kidnappers. And here's what that sounded like. We received your message and we understand. We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her. This is the only way we will have peace. This is very valuable to us, and we will.

35:49 Pay now on that particular message shorter than the other two, very to the point, and the first time the family has come out and said, hey, we will pay. They also use some disturbing language to me anyway, and that is return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her, which makes me feel like, and y'all, I'm just opining here, obviously, but when they say we understand, but we want our mother return back to us so we can celebrate, it makes me think this person or people has told them your mother has died of natural causes and I don't know what to do, or something to that nature. And they're basically saying, hey, we understand she died of natural causes, but we want her back and we're willing to pay for that. That's just my feeling, y'all, based off of what they said. I could be totally off base and wrong, obviously, but I would be curious to know what your thoughts are on that. Also on this day, of course, police they're still heavy into this investigation alone with the FBI, and they focus on the garage of any Guthrie Savannahs sisters home. Again, that could be nothing. Her mom was there the night she went missing.

37:11 Maybe they were looking for something there. Maybe they're doing their ruling out process, and there was something the FBI wanted to make sure the local police didn't miss the first time around. But again something worth mentioning. Now, another thing I didn't mention from that first ransom letter was there were two deadlines, the one that had already passed on the fifth, and then Monday, what was described to be a more serious deadline, Monday February ninth, to be exact. And that day comes and it's at this point it's reported that a six million dollar bitcoin of ransom is being asked for by that date, Monday, February ninth, and there was nothing that has come out saying that have been paid. And Savannah actually releases on this same day a new desperate plea via Instagram. And here's what that sounded like.

38:12 Hi there, everybody. I wanted to come on and just share a few thoughts as we enter into another week of this nightmare. I just want to say, first of all, thank you so much for all of the prayers and the love that we have felt, my sister and brother and I, and that our mom has felt because we believe that somehow, some ways she is feeling these prayers and that God is lifting her even in this moment and in this darkest place, we believe our mom is still out there. We need your help. Law enforcement is working tirelessly around the clock trying to bring her home, trying to find her. She was taken and we don't know where, and we need your help. So I'm coming on just to ask you, not just for your prayers, but no matter where you are, even if you're far from Tucson, if you see anything, you hear anything, if there's anything at all that seems strange to you that you report to law enforcement. We are an hour of desperation.

39:50 And we need your help. I mean that is even difficult to listen to. You can hear the desperation in her voice, in almost sense, hope just slipping away in her voice. And that brings us to February tenth, which is probably where we saw the biggest break in this case occur thus far. Now, remember that deadline for the six million dollar bitcoin payment has already passed. Things have gotten really desperate as far as the public knows, there are no suspects identified. Digital billboards go up all over the country Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, California in particular, and searches are conducted of Nancy Guthrie's septic tank. Never a good thing. But before you go there and think, oh, they must be looking for her body in a septic tank, I'm going to go another direction and thinking they are possibly looking to see if this intruder wash his hands.

40:54 Think about it, if someone washed their hands in the sink, or flushed something down the toilet or cleaned maybe some sort of weapon in the sink and something washed down that septic tank. Maybe they're looking to see if there's DNA in there somewhere that they could track to this individual or individual's I don't know, but it doesn't have to be as serious as they're looking for a body in the septic tank. It could be something much less sinister than that, but still sinister, if that makes any sense. I mean, in my view, at this point, they're not going to leave any stone unturned in this case. Also on this day, a large scale FBI command post is put up and is active in the area. But none of that that I just told you, or big breaks in this case like what I'm about to tell you.

41:53 A video and still images surface released by Cash Pattel in the FBI from the doorbell camera in the front of that resonance, and let me tell you, these aren't what we are typically used to as it relates to video surveillance footage, not those griny images where you can barely make out a human. You can clearly see this guy in the steel images, and in the video, it's about thirty seconds worth of him going back and forth to that camera. He even picks up some foliage from right in front of the residence when he spots the camera, walks back up to the camera, and it appears like he's trying to place the foliage in front of the camera in an effort, I'm singing to hide his identity.

42:43 Now in this video, he is very well disguised. He has on a three hole scheme mask, black thick gloves, a dark fleece jacket that's zipped all the way up to his neck. He appears to have on khaki pants and sneakers and a backpack, and you can clearly see that he has a gun holstered in his waistband, and at one point in the video he even uses a small flashlight. He takes that flashlight, places it in his mouth as he's fiddling with that camera, apparently trying to take it off the bracket, and it looked like to me in the video he had a mustache, although that's not at least right now being talked about. Now, while this video may not seem like much to some people because he's so well disguised, it's actually quite a lot.

43:33 You can learn a lot just by seeing how someone walks back and forth in their mannerisms and things of that nature. Certainly it's the biggest break in this case so far. You can use forced perspective to see, Okay, this person is so tall and weighs so much. Just by seeing you can check the height just by I mean, if it's an eight foot ceiling and the body is six up that ceiling, you know they're six feet tall, that sort of thing. So it's a huge break in this case. Now, I'm recording this about four hours after that video was released on the tenth of February, so something comes out since this recording. Obviously I'm going to be behind a little bit on that, but this is what we know now as a four o'clock Central Time on Tuesday, February tenth, and I'm going to wrap this episode up with this. Remember the proximity to the border in this case thirty miles away. Now, while inside the United States, it would be really difficult to pull something off like this with this much heat on you. It's a lot easier, although not easy, a lot easier if you were crossing the border and going back and forth because Mexican authorities aren't going to work this case as hard as United States authorities. Now that being set, a lot of people go across that border and they get

45:06 caught by the United States, and this guy will get caught or guys or guys and gals. But with the proximity to the border being so close, it would not surprise me if that plays a big role in this case. There are some people out there that fear it's cartel related. I'm not as confident in that theory because the cartel typically is almost always going to provide They know how this works with proof of life, and that's something in this case that's really strained. There's been no proof of life. Now some people say, well, that's because the family is involved, or someone in the family is involved, and the heat's on them, so there's no proof of life. Because so much heat is on them in so many cameras, they can't get to Nancy without someone seeing them to prove that she's alive. I don't buy that for one second. Personally, my personal opinion, I don't feel like the family had anything to do with this. I just I always look for the benefit. What's the benefit to a family member or a son in law kidnapping this sweet lady. I just don't see any of course, anything's possible, but I mean that would shock. That would be the shock all shocks to me. Now. People would also say I was wrong on the border theory because they would say the ransom was too high. Typically border ransoms are like twenty grand.

46:38 And what I would say to that is, initially they're twenty grand until the kidnapper or kidnappers find out the daughter or one of the daughters in this case, is worth forty million dollars. Then they're going to try to get as much money as they can get out of that person. Just my feeling again, knowing what I know about the case, but curious to know what your feeling is. So I'm gonna wrap this one up. Thank you so much for listening. Check out the Patreon for commercial, free early releases, bonus episodes, all kinds of content, patreon dot com, slash exposed podcast files, and lastly, my thoughts and prayers every night until some resolution in this case is reached will be for the family of Nancy Guthrie. I could not imagine what these people are going through. Many prayers to them, and if you see something or you know something, say something. Until next time for Exposed scandalist files of the Elite, I'm your host, Jim Chapman. Much love,