April 20, 2026

Cliffside Betrayal: Dr Gerhardt Konig’s Deadly Plot

Cliffside Betrayal: Dr Gerhardt Konig’s Deadly Plot
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Season 1
Dr. Gerhardt Konig was a respected Maui anesthesiologist living the island dream — until jealousy over his wife Arielle’s suspected emotional affair turned him into a violent attacker. On March 24, 2025, what was supposed to be a romantic birthday hike for Arielle on Oahu’s scenic but treacherous Pali Puka Trail became a nightmare. Prosecutors say Konig planned the assault: he allegedly tried to shove her off a cliff, jabbed at her with a syringe, and then savagely beat her head with a jagged lava rock. Arielle fought desperately for her life as blood soaked the trail… until two hikers heard her screams and interrupted the horror.
What followed was a full-scale manhunt, a chilling FaceTime confession to his own son, graphic bodycam footage, and a high-profile Honolulu trial filled with explosive testimony. Konig claimed the attack stemmed from self defense. From trusted healer to convicted attacker — this is a story of betrayal, obsession, and survival that proves even paradise can hide pure evil. Tune in for every chilling detail, the full courtroom drama, and the questions everyone is still asking. This one will leave you speechless.

Timestamps
00:28 A Dream Hike Turns Nightmare
43:56 A Tumultuous Argument
46:27 The Shocking Confrontation
47:29 A Descent into Chaos
59:57 Emotional Distress and Desperation
1:11:36 The Trial Begins
1:13:30 Verdict and Reflection

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Hey, everyone, welcome back to Exposed, and I have got

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an absolute banger of an episode coming your way today.

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I'm going to bring you on a dream Hawaiian hike

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that absolutely turned into a nightmare when an anesthesiologist by

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the name of doctor Gerhardt Koenig attacks his wife allegedly

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attempts to kill her during this hike and what started

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out as a romanic celebration kind of ends with a

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rock to the head and a syringeful of the lethal drug.

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I've got all the details for you today, so let's

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get into it. And I'm going to tell you if

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you have not heard a little bit about this story,

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this Hawaiian doctor, you haven't been on the internet. It

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is everywhere. It got me really curious as to what

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happened in this case. And when I tell you, I

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deep dug into this one over about a seventy two

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hour time period, you better believe it. And I learned

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a lot of things. So we're gonna start off at

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the beginning of this one where it all starts, and

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that is where doctor Gerhart Koenig was born and when

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he was born in nineteen seventy eight in South Africa

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to his parents Peter and Anwar Koenig. Now he was

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the third child and the third boy for the couple.

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They would have a daughter, a younger sister for Gerhart

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come along later in life, but he was the third

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boy and the baby as of some point in his

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life anyway, And the Cunnings did well for themselves in

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South Africa. His dad was a pharmacist. His mother was

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a homemaker. Three boys at home right with a daughter

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coming anytime now, and we all know if that's more

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work than you could ever do in a pharmacy. And

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his mother was just killing it being a homemaker, his

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dad being the primary breadwinner. Now in ninth grade, at

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fourteen years old, the family they wanted to move to

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the United States. They do, and they settle in San Diego, California. Now,

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his father he works in the States doing the same

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thing he did in South Africa. He's a pharmacist. And

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his mother she starts running a daycare out of the home.

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She just loved kids. The whole family was very child

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oriented and she looked at it as a great way

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to make money and also a great way to do

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what she loved, which was dealing with children. So Gerhart

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he is smart from the time he's born. You can

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tell this kid has a brain on him. He attends

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and he graduates from high school in nineteen ninety six,

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and from there he attends U SEE San Diego. Now

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during college, at the age of twenty. Before he even graduates,

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he also gets married to his high school sweetheart, who

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he had dated since they were juniors in high school.

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Her name was Jessica. And despite this new responsibility of

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being a husband, balancing that with college, couldn't imagine having

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done that. It doesn't distract this guy from his studies,

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and he actually graduates on time with honors from U

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SEE San Diego. And not only that, he doesn't get

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a degree in basket weaving. This guy gets a degree

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in bioengineering. You send him that brain on him already.

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I'm sure. As far as his personal life, he and

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his wife at this time they were in absolute love

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with each other. As a matter of fact, later on,

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Jessica would say for the first couple of years of

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their relationship, she said she would have to remind herself

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to breathe when Gerhart would walk in a room. That's

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how much in love they were at this point. That's important. Now,

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after graduation, Gearhart goes to work for a bio engineering

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firm for the next five years. Look, I tried to

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figure out a way to explain to you exactly what

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he did, but it is so far above my brain capacity.

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Just google it. It deals with like cells and all

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this stuff in science that I have absolutely no interest in.

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And you've got to be much smarter than Jim Chapman

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to understand. So go check that out if you're interested.

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But trust me, very smart guy. Now along the way,

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early in that marriage, he and Jessica would have two children,

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a boy and a girl. So he's working for this

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bio engineering firm, and after about five years he figures

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out this ain't for me. I just want to do

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something else, and he starts looking into going back to

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school and specifically going to medical school. Gerhart wanted to

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become a doctor, so he decides, and I would assume

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he talked this over with his wife and maybe they

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decide together, and they packed the family up and he

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heads to Pennsylvania to attend the University of Pittsburgh Medical School.

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At this point it's two thousand and six. He goes

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through medical school and he graduates in two thousand and ten.

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From that point, he does his internships, his fellowships, and

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then he starts his residency. Now it's during his residency

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that he and his wife had some problems. They just

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weren't getting along. It seemed like they were going different

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directions in life, and they end up getting a divorce. Now,

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this divorce is described as amicable. It's not one of

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these War of the Roses type thing where they fought

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and they were fighting over custody for the kids. They

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pretty much agreed on everything, apparently, even agreed on maybe

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spousal's support and that sort of thing. But it was

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something that Jessica would also say later that it really

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just came down to the demands that were placed on

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Gerhart during and following medical school, and it just caused

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them to kind of grow apart. It's people, and sometimes

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that happens in a marriage. It's nobody's fault. You just

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go down two different paths and the next thing you know,

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you're not in love anymore. So no real drama here,

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just life be lifing. Right. Moving on to twenty sixteen,

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that was a big year for Gerhart. He completes that

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residency and he is hired as an anesthesiologist for what's

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known as McGee Woman's Hospital. This is in Pittsburgh, and

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he also accepted an assistant professor job at the University

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of Pittsburgh. And in an even bigger step, doctor Kuennig

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decides it's time to jump back into the world of

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dating again. So he does that, and he does that

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the way everyone seemingly does that these days. He joins

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a dating site and it was e Harmony, to be specific,

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and there he connects with a woman by the name

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of Ariel Worthington. This is in the spring of twenty sixteen.

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They go out to a local bar, sparks fly so

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much so that they can you seeing each other for

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the next two years, and on September fourth of twenty eighteen,

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they actually marry in a small, private ceremony at Gerhard's home,

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which incidentally is no small home. As a matter of fact,

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it was valued at the time at over a million dollars.

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Nice home. What about Ariel Worthington, what's her story? Well,

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she was quite the catch in her own right. I'll

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say that, first and foremost, she was ten years younger

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than her new husband, doctor Coenig, and that's something not

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a lot of people on the Internet that are researching

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this story know or have realized. She was actually born

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in nineteen eighty eight in Illinois to her parents, Kevin

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and Judith, and she came from a more blue collar upbringing,

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I guess you could say than doctor Coonig. Her dad

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was a bricklayer, and she also did not come from

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what would be as stay an environment as her husband did.

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He came from a family that had, you know, four kids.

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They moved to California, no divorces to speak of. She

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came from a broken household in some ways. Her parents

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divorced during her upbringing. Now her mother did get remarried

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to who would be a stepdad in her life. She

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goes through life. She graduates high school, then she attends

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college at Penn State. Now, this girl, Ariel, she is

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no dummy either. As a matter of fact, she is

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super freaking smart as well. And she would graduate from

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Penn State with a degree in nuclear engineering in twenty eleven.

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Look at the big brain on Aeriel, right. That degree

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from that school means you are extremely smart. Now, after college,

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she takes a job with Westinghouse as a nuclear fuel

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and here basically meaning this woman would work with nuclear

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fuel and reactor technology, which these days, holy smokes, that

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is the field to be in, and she had some

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great foresight there. Now, after working at Westinghouse for about

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six years, she links up with doctor Gerhardt in twenty sixteen,

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as I told you on that dating app e harmony,

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and they marry as I told you in twenty eighteen.

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So they start out their life together at this point,

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husband and wife, and in May of twenty twenty they

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have their first son together and everything seems fine. They

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are getting along great, so much so in twenty twenty two,

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Ariel is pregnant again and they're excited they're gonna have

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their second child together. And it's during this point that

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they start discussing and looking into possibly relocating. Why is that, Well,

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Pittsburgh was having some crime issues and look, this is

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in Pennsylvania. The winners in Pennsylvania brutal to say the least.

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So they wanted to go somewhere a little bit safer,

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maybe not as fast paced as a big city like Pittsburgh,

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but also somewhere with better weather. And they figured this

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would be perfect to raise two kids. So doctor Koenig,

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being an anesthesiologist, he can pretty much find a high

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paying job anywhere in the world, right, his wife Ariel,

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thanks to COVID bringing along this whole remote working technology

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life that everybody experienced during that time, she also felt

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confident she could find something in her field that would

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allow for remote working. And as a matter of fact,

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just prior to them making the final decision on where

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they were going, she did land another job with another

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company where it was one hundred percent remote, so it

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was kind of a no brainer. I can go anywhere

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you want to go. Eventually they decide on Maui, Hawaii,

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and hey, why not, right, They had both been there

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in the past. As a matter of fact, they spent

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their honeymoon in Maui, Hawaii, so it checked all the

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boxes for them. Great weather. They were also very active.

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They loved the outdoors, and they specifically loved hiking, and

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it has plenty of that in Hawaii, hiking all these

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volcano areas, especially so doctor Koenig. He starts looking around

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at the hospitals in the Maui area, and as I

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told you, Ariels, she at this point worked for a

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company called Terra Power, and she was fully remote with

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that company, so no big deal for her. Doctor Koenig

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would have to give up his assistant professor job at

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the University of Pittsburgh, and he knew that, and yeah,

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that's going to cost him a little bit of money,

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but hey, they were about family. They wanted to move

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somewhere safer, with better weather and a place that they

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felt like was better to raise their kids. So it

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was a small sacrifice for him to make. Eventually, he

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does find a job with a smaller hospital in Maui

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and it's off to Maui to make this move. Now,

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at this point, doctor Gerhart, he has two of the

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kids in a prior marriage, and at this point in

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my research, I'm thinking, well, what about those kids. Well,

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his daughter was older, she was already out of high school,

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she was in college, and she wanted to stay put

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where she was at going to college. But his son

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a little bit different. He was sixteen at the time,

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and he wanted to go with his dad. What sixteen

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year old wouldn't say, Hey, I want to go with

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dad and live in Maui, Hawaii. This kid's no different.

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Gerhart talks to his ex wife and they discussed this,

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and she decides to let her son go to live

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with her dad and not give him any shit about

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it in Maui, Hawaii, So his sixteen year old son

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goes as well. Now, they also had to talk to

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Ariel's mother and stepfather, and they go to them and

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they say, we're moving to Maui, and the mom and

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stepdad they're like, what, that's not going to work. You've

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got grandkids with you that we love to see every

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chance we get, and Maui is just too freaking far away.

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But it was apparent to both the stepdad and the

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mother of Ariel that there's no stopping this. So they

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did the second best thing, and they said, hey, what

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if we moved to Maui. What if we find a

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house in Maui as well, which they did and everyone

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was excited about that. And they they only moved like

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a minute away from where the grain kids were and

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where Ariel and doctor Kunnig were. So at this point

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you have Gerhart, his sixteen year old son, Ariel, their

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two children, one being an infant, one being three years old,

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and they all go to Maui with mom and stepdad

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just a few streets down, like a minute's walk away,

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and they lived what you would call a dream life

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in Maui. For that first year and a half or so,

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everything was picture perfect. A lot of exploring of the

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Hawaiian islands, you got hiking, you got beaching, you got

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all the things you could ever want, and beautiful weather

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and on the exterior, the perfect life. But no one

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really has the perfect life, right, So let's talk about

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Jeffrey Miller. Now, Jeffrey was a senior director at terror

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Power where Ariel was employed. He was a senior boss

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as a matter of fact of Ariels, and he was

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also married incidentally. So I'm going to take you to

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August of twenty twenty four and Ariel, as part of

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her job, she had to travel to South Africa for work. Now,

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on this particular trip, she was going to be accompanied

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by her boss, jeff Miller. So leading up to this trup,

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Ariel mentions this to doctor Cunning and at the time,

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according to Gerhart, no concerns. Now, this was just a

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short two day trup. And one thing Gerhart took note

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of was typically at the end of a night anytime

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she would go out of town for work, she would

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call and let him know I'm going to bed or whatever,

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or at least text him some form of communication. However,

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on this trup no end of night texts, she basically

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texted that she had landed, and then he didn't hear

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from her until she was on the way back home.

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That was kind of out of character for her, so

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he took note of this in his mind, but he,

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according to his testimony, was not overly concerned about this.

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She returns from the trip and Gerhart casually asked her, Hey,

255
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why didn't you send me anything telling me you were

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going to bed or let me know? And she apologized

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and she said, look, we had meetings till late, and

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then the host who was hosting us in South Africa

259
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took us to dinner and by the time I got back,

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I need you'd be sleeping, and so I was so tired.

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I just went to bed. And that was pretty much

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yet and no harm, no foul. He kind of chalked

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that up to strange, maybe a radar raised a little bit,

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but it wasn't like he wrote her ass about it. Now.

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One thing he did do was he would start paying

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a little closer at ten to things as it related

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to Ariel and her boss, and he would notice some

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things that would raise some eyebrows. If you will. He

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would notice that when Jeff and Ariel would converse over

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the phone, it just seemed much more friendly than professional,

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and that wasn't how they were talking prior to this TRUP.

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She worked out of her home, so she had a

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home office and he would ever hear her a lot

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of times in there when she would be talking during work,

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and he would pick up on the fact that it's

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like their relationship, meaning her and her boss's relationship had

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changed pretty drastically. Something just didn't sit right with him,

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and a lot of people call that intuition, and he

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kind of knew something maybe going on. He would describe

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their conversations as just an overly familiar tone, where before

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it was more of a professional tone. So he would

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also notice that she was very protective on her phone screen,

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he said. When he would walk in the room, for example,

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and she would be on her phone, it would look

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like she was in the middle of a text conversation.

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She would kind of tilt her phone in such a

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way that he couldn't see it, or she would close

288
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out her phone quickly, and when he would ask her

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things like are you talking to her? Who are you

290
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chatting with her? Text? She would always say her best friend.

291
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But this would happen more and more frequently, and obviously

292
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those are red flags for this guy who already maybe

293
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:42.680
was a little suspicious something was not right with her

294
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and her boss. So that would continue those behaviors, tilting

295
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the phone, closing out texts, almost like she's hiding conversations.

296
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This would occur more and more often, and in the meantime,

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while all of this was going on, they had also

298
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so planned a trip with some very good friends of theirs,

299
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and just prior to that TRUP one night, Ariel falls

300
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asleep a little bit early and Gerhart he can't take

301
00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:17.119
it anymore. There's just too many things strange going on

302
00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:20.119
that she's doing. And he admits in court that he

303
00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:24.880
goes through her phone while she's sleeping, and look, this guy,

304
00:20:24.920 --> 00:20:27.640
he's really smart. It would be hard to pull the

305
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:30.359
wool over his eyes. And rather than just kind of

306
00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:34.039
scroll through her phone like most people would do to

307
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:36.559
see if anything looks suspicious, if they go to the

308
00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:40.359
message apps and see if anything stands out as they're

309
00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:45.279
scrolling through text, he does something pretty smart to do,

310
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and he actually goes to her app usage section of

311
00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:53.559
her phone and he wanted to see what apps she

312
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:58.000
was using the most often, because with iPhones, it'll break

313
00:20:58.039 --> 00:21:02.759
down how many hours you use each individual app, and

314
00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:06.000
it will also kind of rank them in order of

315
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:09.680
the highest use to the lowest use. And he notices

316
00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:15.559
that her top app used is an application called WhatsApp. Now,

317
00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:20.599
for those not familiar, WhatsApp is an application that number

318
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:24.720
one is supposed to be encrypted, which I actually kind

319
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:27.400
of question because I've done a lot of cases where

320
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:31.759
WhatsApp was used to pull up chats after they were

321
00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:35.079
supposedly deleted. But that's kind of how it's marketed that

322
00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:38.400
it's an encrypted app. But in addition to that, it's

323
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:43.160
also an application that is solely of itself. I guess

324
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:46.759
you could say, meaning you don't go through the messages

325
00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:50.240
app on an iPhone to chat through WhatsApp. You pull

326
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:54.519
up What's app and you chat through that application, and

327
00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:57.039
it's a little more secretive than if you were to

328
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just chat through messages for example. Now he not only

329
00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:05.440
notices she has a WhatsApp account, which he was very

330
00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:08.960
familiar with. What's app that's the messaging system that his

331
00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:13.440
hospital used, primarily because of the encryption features that come

332
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:16.559
along with it. But the next thing he notices is

333
00:22:16.599 --> 00:22:21.160
that WhatsApp had been hidden in a folder that application

334
00:22:21.400 --> 00:22:24.640
on her phone. So it wasn't you opened her phone

335
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:28.920
up and as you wiped right or swiped left or whatever,

336
00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:34.279
you come to the WhatsApp application, there was actually a folder.

337
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:36.640
I don't know what it was labeled, but something that

338
00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:40.599
wouldn't stand out in somebody's mind. It didn't say what's

339
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:45.119
app application folder. It was labeled something completely different, and

340
00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:47.759
when you went in that folder, that's how you found

341
00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:51.480
What's app, the actual application. So that right there is

342
00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:53.920
a huge right flag. She's trying to hide the fact

343
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:56.480
she even has the app. Right, So he pulls up

344
00:22:56.519 --> 00:22:59.839
the app through her phone and he notices a ton

345
00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:03.960
of text And these were not work related as much

346
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:08.559
as they were like friendly related texts, things like good

347
00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:12.200
morning every single morning for like a moth, and it's

348
00:23:12.279 --> 00:23:16.119
back and forth with her boss, and they would chat

349
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:18.680
her and her boss throughout the day about things that

350
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:21.960
had nothing to do with work, and it all seemed

351
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.359
like small talk, innocent shit, certainly a little more in

352
00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:29.599
depth than what you would have with a coworker. They

353
00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:34.440
seemed like very very good, friendly conversations, but What really

354
00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:39.079
stuck out to doctor Koenig was the amount of texts

355
00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:43.480
that lacked context. And what I mean by that, Well,

356
00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:47.240
you would have a text chain of conversations where it

357
00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:52.000
would be Jeff, her boss, sending four or five texts

358
00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:55.160
in a right to Ariel, where it would look like

359
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:59.759
she responded back, but the text had been deleted where

360
00:23:59.799 --> 00:24:03.359
she responded back to Jeff. So it was almost like

361
00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:06.680
he was reading a one sided conversation. And it was

362
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:11.319
obvious many of the texts that Ariel would respond to

363
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:16.000
were deleted. So put yourself in this guy's position at

364
00:24:16.039 --> 00:24:18.200
this point, what do you think is going on? Well,

365
00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:22.559
doctor Koenig, he thought the same thing, definitely. His wife

366
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:26.839
was having an affair with this guy who was also married. Now,

367
00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:30.039
as I mentioned, they had a trip planned within a

368
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:33.759
couple of days, and he just now is finding out

369
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:37.519
all this information and his brain is swirling trying to

370
00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:41.160
figure out how he's going to handle this. So another

371
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:45.279
interesting aspect to what's APPED is it's not only an

372
00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:49.480
application that you can download on your phone. It also

373
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:54.079
has the capability to be logged into from a desktop

374
00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:59.000
or a laptop computer where they have an actual application

375
00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:01.599
you can pull up on line. You don't have to

376
00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:04.279
go through a phone to chat back and forth. You

377
00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:07.839
can kind of do both. And what makes that really

378
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:12.039
interesting is that you can see text in real time

379
00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:16.119
as they are sent. So if you're logged in from

380
00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:18.880
a desktop, you can also be logged in from your

381
00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:21.519
phone and you can kind of go back and forth

382
00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:25.279
as you text. And if you're on the desktop and

383
00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:27.880
someone's texting someone else on the phone and you have

384
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:32.519
their login information, which he did, you can actually see

385
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:37.359
these texts pop up in real time before somebody deletes them.

386
00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:40.279
So the next day, Gerhart goes to work and he

387
00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:44.799
logs into that WhatsApp application, which, as I said, he

388
00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:48.799
had his wife's credentials. He somehow figured those out and

389
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:52.759
he can see his wife and Jeff texting back and

390
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:56.720
forth in real time that day, which in his mind

391
00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:01.799
is an advantage for him because she can't just delete

392
00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:05.680
those messages without him seeing them as long as he's

393
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:08.920
looking right at the computer as she's doing it. And

394
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:13.119
he would just take screenshots right of these communications back

395
00:26:13.240 --> 00:26:17.799
and forth. So that's what he does, and as they're communicating,

396
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:23.400
he's just steady continuing to take these screenshots and look

397
00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:28.119
they were careful, meaning Ariel and Jeff. They were very

398
00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:31.440
cautious on how they would speak over text, and they

399
00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:35.160
would never go too far with it where it was

400
00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:39.279
obvious they were in a sexual relationship. Now there was

401
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:44.720
innuendo everywhere in these text but they didn't come out

402
00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:47.559
and say I loved having sex with you last night

403
00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:49.960
that kind of thing. So, as I told you, a

404
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:53.960
vacation with their friends was coming up within days and

405
00:26:54.039 --> 00:26:58.240
the next day actually they're going on vacation with these

406
00:26:58.359 --> 00:27:04.720
best friends Kunig. He calls Brian, which is one of

407
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:08.000
the two people that he was going on this vacation

408
00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:11.200
with with his wife, the Mail side of that couple,

409
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:15.400
and he confides in him about all this shit that

410
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:19.039
is going on. He basically tells him, look, I'm going

411
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:22.799
to confront Ariel on this trip, and I don't want

412
00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:24.519
to make ye all uncomfortable. I'm not going to do

413
00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:26.039
it in front of you. I'm going to do it

414
00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:28.880
in the hotel room. But we may end up leaving

415
00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:31.160
earlier or something like that. I want to give you

416
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:34.079
heads up. But he also had another reason that he

417
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:39.119
confided in Brian, and that was Brian and I'm not

418
00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:45.319
exactly sure how long prior to this instance with Ariel

419
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:48.240
and the good doctor. I'm not sure if it was

420
00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:50.920
a year before that or six months before that, but

421
00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:54.400
Brian had been caught in an affair with his wife,

422
00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:59.079
and so he was looking for advice. Now, in Brian's case,

423
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:01.640
it was a one night stand thing and he got

424
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:04.920
caught a little bit different than what we're talking about

425
00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:07.880
here with the doctor and Ariel, but he wanted his

426
00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:11.599
advice because Brian and his wife managed to kind of

427
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:14.640
work it out and work through it, and he wanted

428
00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:17.759
to work this out if he could with his watch.

429
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:20.079
So they go on this trup and as soon as

430
00:28:20.119 --> 00:28:23.319
they get there, they go to dinner with this couple,

431
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:26.680
and y'all, I can only imagine what this dinner was

432
00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:29.559
like with this guy, knowing as soon as we're done

433
00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:31.920
with this, I'm gonna go back to the hotel room

434
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:34.400
with my wife and I'm gonna have to confront her

435
00:28:34.519 --> 00:28:38.400
with this affair. But they do have dinner, everyone goes

436
00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:41.880
back to their individual rooms and he brings it up.

437
00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:47.160
He asked Ariel about this affair, and immediately she admits

438
00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:50.319
to it. She says what they were doing was inappropriate.

439
00:28:50.519 --> 00:28:55.119
She's very remorseful, she starts crying, and look, this is

440
00:28:55.319 --> 00:29:00.279
just me hypothesizing here. Obviously I was not there. I

441
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:03.799
have no direct knowledge. But one thing that struck me

442
00:29:04.359 --> 00:29:08.119
was that she came out with it quick, she accepted

443
00:29:08.119 --> 00:29:12.079
it quick. She never tried to deny it, and it

444
00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:16.200
made me think, I wonder if Brian or Brian's wife

445
00:29:16.759 --> 00:29:19.480
had given her kind of a heads up that this

446
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:22.279
was going to happen before they went on this trip,

447
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:24.680
and that she had time in her head to kind

448
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:27.200
of get her story together. I mean, she was just

449
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:31.039
so accepting of what he said right off the bat,

450
00:29:31.240 --> 00:29:34.440
and she admitted to it so fast. It just I

451
00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:36.680
don't know, it seemed like she maybe would have tried

452
00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:39.400
to deny it first. She did the right thing. She

453
00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:41.839
didn't even ask him where he got the information or

454
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:44.400
what proof he had of any of that. And so

455
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:48.319
my suspicion was one of those two people told her

456
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:54.119
that was coming, but totally me just hypothesizing there. Regardless,

457
00:29:54.519 --> 00:29:59.000
she seemed very regretful, and to the doctor's credit, he

458
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:02.240
wanted to make the this work now. He had already

459
00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:05.519
in this couple of days since he's known this was

460
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:09.319
going on, had done a lot of research on how

461
00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:12.160
to deal with it when these sort of things happened,

462
00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:15.079
to help you get past it in a marriage, and

463
00:30:15.319 --> 00:30:18.519
one of the suggestions was the person who had the

464
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:21.960
affair would have to move out of the home for

465
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:25.480
a couple of months and remove themselves from the situation

466
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:30.079
and you kind of work on this rekindling type thing. Now,

467
00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:34.400
the problem with that was they've got two small kids

468
00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:37.599
at this time, one year old and four year old

469
00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:41.640
at home, and they didn't want to disrupt these two

470
00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:47.359
babies lives, and so that would be a complicating factor

471
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:50.039
to be able to do something like that. And they

472
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:53.599
figured out pretty quick that's not going to be something

473
00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:56.440
we're going to be interested in doing. And Ariel was

474
00:30:56.519 --> 00:30:59.920
telling doctor Koenig, I'll do whatever you need me to do.

475
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:04.920
And in his research, among many suggestions was the person

476
00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:08.160
who did the cheating, they need to be forthcoming with

477
00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:12.559
any questions that the person that was cheated on had. So,

478
00:31:12.759 --> 00:31:16.119
for example, if doctor Kuennig says, out of the clear

479
00:31:16.160 --> 00:31:18.599
blue sky, let me see your phone. I want to

480
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:21.680
go through it, the proper way to handle that would

481
00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:24.640
be to give him your phone and let him go

482
00:31:24.759 --> 00:31:28.480
through it. And what that is supposed to accomplish is

483
00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:33.920
build trust back in that relationship. Now, another thing is

484
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:37.279
to be very open about the affair and the feelings

485
00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:42.039
involved in the affair, which also builds trust back. According

486
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:45.200
to these books he was reading on the subject and

487
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:48.640
speaking to her about, and he would also buy her

488
00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:52.559
copies of these books for her to read. One of them,

489
00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:57.079
as a matter of fact, was specifically about understanding how

490
00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:00.720
your spouse is feeling after they've been cheated on those

491
00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:04.119
sort of things. So both of them are in agreements

492
00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:07.279
on making this thing work, even to the point of

493
00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:10.640
starting to go to a therapist. So they get home

494
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:15.160
after this trup and everything seemed as good as it

495
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:18.640
should be, and she seemed to be very interested in

496
00:32:18.759 --> 00:32:23.640
working everything out. However, a couple of weeks past incident,

497
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:28.640
she would get more and more inconsistent about the things

498
00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:31.920
that she agreed to. For example, he would ask her

499
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:34.440
a couple times to see her phone, and she would

500
00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:37.480
start to get frustrated with him for this. And I'm

501
00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:40.359
not judging it one way or the other, that's just

502
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:43.240
the facts, he said. He would notice it would kind

503
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:45.279
of start to piss her off when he would want

504
00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:47.599
to see her phone and he would say later, in

505
00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:50.519
his mind, she was a very gung ho to make

506
00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:53.440
this thing work. At the beginning, she wanted to stay together,

507
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:56.599
and then after about a month, it just seemed like

508
00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:59.599
she wasn't on board with all of the things they

509
00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:03.160
had agree to anymore. Although she still wanted to work

510
00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:06.759
out issues and stay together, just not in the way

511
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:10.440
that he wanted to. So by December of twenty twenty four,

512
00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:14.160
there was kind of a switch with her, according to

513
00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:18.319
doctor Kuennig, where she would start kind of minimizing what

514
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:21.279
she did. And it's important to mention, I'm gonna tell

515
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:25.599
you right here, right here, she never admitted to a

516
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:30.079
sexual affair. Now, she told him it was an emotional affair.

517
00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:35.039
That yes, they flirted with each other and flirted very

518
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:39.519
flirty over the text, but it had never gotten that far. Now,

519
00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:43.319
again I have no direct knowledge, but it did come

520
00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:46.480
out in the trial that these two Ariel and Brian

521
00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:52.799
had texted each other over ten thousand times in just

522
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:56.279
a few months, back and forth all day long, same

523
00:33:56.359 --> 00:34:00.920
people that were alone together in a whole nother country. Now,

524
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:04.200
I don't know if I believe that that she supposedly

525
00:34:04.279 --> 00:34:07.960
did not have sex with him, but I suppose it's possible.

526
00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:09.800
I got no proof for one way or the other,

527
00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:12.199
so we'll go with what she's saying. But I can

528
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:16.199
understand the doubts in his mind for sure now. Also,

529
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:19.440
I did not mention this earlier, but he did email

530
00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:23.480
her boss's wife and let the boss's wife know that

531
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:27.039
that affair was going on. In addition to that, one

532
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:31.480
of the stipulations he had for this marriage, for them

533
00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:35.039
to stay together and work on this relationship rather than

534
00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:37.960
get a divorce, was that she had to end all

535
00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:42.800
contact with Brian. And that makes sense now. He would

536
00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:46.480
say if it was something work related that she absolutely

537
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:50.639
had to deal with Brian, it could be through email only,

538
00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:54.639
and of course she was never to go anywhere where

539
00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:57.400
it would just be her and Brian. Again, there would

540
00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:00.519
have to be someone else there, And I think that's reasonable.

541
00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:02.920
It makes all the sense in the world to me.

542
00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:05.800
But it's important to mention because it's going to play

543
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:09.280
a key role in just a minute now back to it.

544
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:12.639
They're working on this thing and in March of twenty

545
00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:16.719
twenty five, late March, it's Aeriels thirty six birthday, and

546
00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:20.480
just prior to that birthday, they start talking about what

547
00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:23.639
they want to do, and Gerhart mentions to her about

548
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:26.800
a hiking trail that he's always wanted to check out.

549
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:30.320
And look, these two hike together constantly, and they both

550
00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:33.920
love to hike together, so this is something they both enjoy.

551
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:36.920
It was on the island of a Wahoo and he

552
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.360
asked her, Hey, do you want to go do this

553
00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:43.159
hiking trip on your birthday? And she says yes, and

554
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:46.840
that's just what they did. So March twenty fourth of

555
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:51.159
twenty twenty five, they get there and just prior to

556
00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:54.239
this trip, I do want to mention this, within a

557
00:35:54.280 --> 00:35:58.960
few months of it, they had updated their life insurance policies.

558
00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:02.320
Now people may say, oh, there you go, life insurance

559
00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:05.840
always leads to murder, and that's not necessarily true. If

560
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:09.320
you're married and you got young kids, you for sure

561
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:14.039
need life insurance. That's the responsible thing to do. And

562
00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:17.559
they have not done this yet. In life they didn't

563
00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:22.599
have life insurance policies. So Gerhart he handles this and

564
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:26.079
he takes out a policy on himself meaning if he dies,

565
00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:30.679
Ariel gets one point five million dollars, and he also

566
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:34.599
takes one out where if Ariel dies he gets two

567
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:38.880
hundred and fifty thousand dollars total opposite of what you'd think, right,

568
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:41.760
And it made all the sense in the world because

569
00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:45.320
he's the bread winner in the home. She made great money.

570
00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:48.599
But I mean, this guy was an anesthesiologist and he

571
00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:53.199
got paid. He was the primary breadwinner. So something happened

572
00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:57.320
to him that income they would be missing out on,

573
00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:00.159
would it would kind of make that family whole, at

574
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:02.599
least for a little while. I really don't think it

575
00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:06.880
had anything to do with what went down in this story,

576
00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:09.760
but it's important to mention, and it was mentioned in

577
00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:13.280
the trial as a possible motive. So there you haven't

578
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:18.079
now Back to March twenty fourth, Gerhart gives this birthday

579
00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:22.039
card to Ariel and it's a loving birthday card. I'm

580
00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:24.119
gonna read it to you quickly. I'm going to tell

581
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:28.440
you exactly what it said. Verbatim. It reads, Happy birthday,

582
00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:32.079
angel face. There isn't an obstacle in this world too

583
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:35.280
hard for me to fight through for you. I would

584
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:38.920
take on anything just to see you smile. You're the kindest,

585
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:43.079
most giving and selfless person I know, putting others before

586
00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:46.880
yourself with so much love. You're the heart of our family, fun,

587
00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:50.159
fearless and a terrific mom the kids, and I hit

588
00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:54.840
the jackpot with you Love Always g and I mean

589
00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:59.719
pretty heartfelt card. Most guys and those of you that

590
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:02.840
have husband's out there, you know how we roll. Typically

591
00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:05.719
it's just like we sign our name or you know,

592
00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:09.559
love whoever. But in this case, he took some time

593
00:38:09.639 --> 00:38:11.480
and it sounds like he puts some thought into what

594
00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:13.440
he wrote. So there you have it. So he gives

595
00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:15.960
her this birthday card. And they were only in a

596
00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:19.000
Wahoo for a couple of days in order to fit

597
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:22.519
this hike in. So they wanted to do it as

598
00:38:22.599 --> 00:38:27.840
early as possible because they had dinner reservations that night.

599
00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:31.039
So they leave at around you know, nine o'clock in

600
00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:33.480
the morning to go hike. And they get to the

601
00:38:33.519 --> 00:38:36.880
trailhead and there are a couple of other hikers there

602
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:40.199
and they see it's two females. And they see these

603
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:44.239
hikers and Aeriel kind of waves at them, and in

604
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:47.199
her mind, they're looking for the trailhead and sometimes when

605
00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:49.280
you're doing this hiking, it'll be kind of hard to

606
00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:53.360
find the trailhead, and so she tells doctor Cunnig, hey,

607
00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:56.599
let's show them where the trailhead is and he's like, man,

608
00:38:56.679 --> 00:38:59.679
I really don't want to do that because I want

609
00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:01.599
to be a lie with you. And if we go

610
00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:03.840
start talking to him, they're gonna want to hike with us.

611
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:06.320
And you know, this is kind of like your birthday

612
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:08.159
and I want it to be special. So they didn't

613
00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:11.000
say anything to these two people. So I'm gonna give

614
00:39:11.079 --> 00:39:14.519
you both people's story going forward, and we're going to

615
00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:17.280
start with Ariel, and I'm going to tell you her

616
00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:20.599
details of what happened. She said, they go on the

617
00:39:20.679 --> 00:39:24.039
trail and it's a rocky trail, and they passed several

618
00:39:24.079 --> 00:39:28.320
cliff faces and it was very uneasy on this trail,

619
00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:32.239
according to Ariel, and she tells doctor Cunnig she didn't

620
00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:35.559
want to continue forward. At one point, she was very nervous.

621
00:39:35.559 --> 00:39:38.559
It was very wendy that day, and they were going

622
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:42.360
up pretty high on these cliff faces, et cetera, and

623
00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:44.880
she was concerned she might fall or something. She's not

624
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:48.679
having fun anymore, let's just say that. So she said

625
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:52.159
that at that point, Gerhart kind of goes past her

626
00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:55.440
and he hikes up for about five more minutes. And

627
00:39:55.480 --> 00:39:59.360
that's how they judge distance. They say Okay, hiked up

628
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:02.880
five more minutes. Then he comes back and he tells

629
00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:05.559
her how beautiful it was, and he kind of tries

630
00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:09.239
to convince her to keep going, but she's like, screw that,

631
00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:13.360
I'm scared. We're heading back down the trail. So they

632
00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:17.199
start heading back down the trail and they're getting along.

633
00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:21.519
At this point, they're talking, they're taking pictures, they're taking selfies.

634
00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:24.440
As a matter of fact, as they're doing this, they're

635
00:40:24.519 --> 00:40:29.639
sending pictures to family. And so her story was she

636
00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:33.800
takes a picture by a tree and that he snapped

637
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:37.159
the picture, and she said at that point, she goes

638
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.320
to walk past him and he totally out of the

639
00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:44.239
clear blue sky, freaks out, grabs her by the arm

640
00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:47.239
and basically says, I'm so sick of this shit. And

641
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:49.679
he's got both of her arms and he pushes her

642
00:40:49.719 --> 00:40:52.360
toward the cliff as if he were going to throw

643
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:55.960
her off this cliff, and she said, they start rustling,

644
00:40:56.480 --> 00:40:59.880
and she said, he's dragging me closer and closer to

645
00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:02.719
the edge, and so she gets an idea, I'm gonna

646
00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:06.119
throw myself on the ground and that'll stop him from

647
00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:09.079
being able to drag me. Now keep in mind doctor

648
00:41:09.159 --> 00:41:11.159
Kuennig is not that big a guy. He's like one

649
00:41:11.199 --> 00:41:15.440
hundred and sixty five pounds and he's five nine or

650
00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:18.119
something like that. She's like five to seven and one

651
00:41:18.199 --> 00:41:21.519
hundred and forty five pounds, so they're pretty much the

652
00:41:21.559 --> 00:41:25.400
same size, and so it wouldn't take much, I guess,

653
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:28.159
for her to get him onto the ground on top

654
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:32.280
of her, which eventually he is, and he's kind of

655
00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:35.800
straddling her at this point, and they just go to fighting.

656
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:38.840
And she said, while he was on top of her,

657
00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:42.719
he pulls out a syringe, which she kind of knocks

658
00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:45.800
out of her hand, and she said, next, he took

659
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:49.480
off his backpack with one hand, and he starts digging

660
00:41:49.519 --> 00:41:52.480
in it with one hand while he's holding her down

661
00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:55.079
with the other hand. She claimed he had a vial

662
00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:57.760
in his hand while he was digging through the backpack.

663
00:41:57.880 --> 00:42:01.840
So there's a lot going on here. She's screaming all

664
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:05.159
kinds of shit and he is fighting her. She said.

665
00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:08.519
At that point, she bit his arm and she grabs

666
00:42:08.599 --> 00:42:11.800
him by the nuts and she just like has a

667
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:16.880
death grip on his testicles. Say, she continued screaming, and

668
00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:21.039
then she said, out of nowhere, he slams her head

669
00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:24.639
with a rock, and she said, in her mind she

670
00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:27.920
was trying to knock him out so he could drag

671
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:31.079
her to the edge. Now, at that point, she said,

672
00:42:31.159 --> 00:42:35.000
she hears a woman's voice say we are here and

673
00:42:35.079 --> 00:42:37.400
we are calling nine to one one, and that's the

674
00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:41.320
two hikers. And she said at that point Gerhart froze

675
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:43.920
and she was able to get away and catch up

676
00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:47.039
down the trail with these two hikers and call police.

677
00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:51.519
So that's her story. Now, let me give you Gerhart's

678
00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:56.679
story better. Yet, I'm gonna let you hear Gerhart's version

679
00:42:57.360 --> 00:42:58.360
out of his own mouth.

680
00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:02.159
Listen to this, continue going on on the hike. What

681
00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:05.000
happens at some point we did something happen that led

682
00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:09.480
to an argument. Yes, tell the jury what happened that

683
00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:11.760
led to an argument? Well, first of all, how far

684
00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:12.800
up into the hike was?

685
00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:12.960
It?

686
00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:15.119
Not very far, just just like five minutes.

687
00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:18.599
Like after about five minutes of hiking, you get to

688
00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:22.760
a part where it flattens out a bit and it's

689
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.320
the edge isn't like the cliff side isn't open. But

690
00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:26.800
there's a couple of spots where you can get to

691
00:43:26.840 --> 00:43:28.480
the cliff side if if if you wanted to. So

692
00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:30.199
we're kind of still in that area, the same area

693
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:33.800
that that picture was taken. And Ay says, Hey, I

694
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:38.360
need to talk to you about something. Uh, you know,

695
00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:42.039
I'm working on this this project with Jeff Miller and

696
00:43:43.119 --> 00:43:45.360
I'm gonna need to travel with him again and I

697
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:46.760
and I need you to be okay with that?

698
00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:48.039
Is that okay?

699
00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:51.599
And so she had she was kind of aked, telling you, like, hey,

700
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:57.639
you know, there's just things that work going on. You know,

701
00:43:57.639 --> 00:43:59.719
I need you to be okay with this, you know,

702
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:09.000
asking you to trust her. Yes, And again you mentioned

703
00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:11.800
you guys weren't talking about the affair at home anymore

704
00:44:11.800 --> 00:44:14.519
because of constant correct. That's correct, and were and you

705
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:17.280
guys weren't talking about it in constant a lot at

706
00:44:17.320 --> 00:44:17.679
that time.

707
00:44:18.199 --> 00:44:21.199
We hadn't gotten to that kind of the core of

708
00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:21.760
it yet.

709
00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:26.440
So she brings this up. What is your reaction to it?

710
00:44:28.239 --> 00:44:35.639
I'm I'm very surprised, And yeah, were you upset and angry?

711
00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:37.800
I wasn't angry? I was I was.

712
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:42.119
I was surprised and and and upset. And I told

713
00:44:42.119 --> 00:44:45.840
her no, like, I'm not okay with that. And and

714
00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:47.559
not only am I not okay with that? Like I'm

715
00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:50.400
never gonna be okay with that, Like we haven't dealt

716
00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:51.440
with that part.

717
00:44:51.639 --> 00:44:52.920
Like the only reason why.

718
00:44:53.239 --> 00:44:56.840
I was okay with her still even working there is

719
00:44:56.840 --> 00:45:00.440
because we had placed these limits on there can unication.

720
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:04.199
But in my mind, like she still needed at some

721
00:45:04.199 --> 00:45:07.559
point to quit her job, and this was only put

722
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:09.519
on hold when we were while we were trying to.

723
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:10.400
Deal with all these other things.

724
00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:12.079
She basically said like, well, I can't quit my job

725
00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:13.400
right now because I don't even know if I want

726
00:45:13.400 --> 00:45:15.320
to stay with you. So we were dealing with like

727
00:45:15.400 --> 00:45:19.480
the issues that she brought up first, but it's not

728
00:45:19.559 --> 00:45:22.199
like any of the of the affair had been resolved

729
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:24.119
at all, Like it had just kind of been put

730
00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:24.519
on hold.

731
00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:27.559
And so how did you feel that she was even

732
00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:30.599
that she would even think that this would even be okay?

733
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:33.599
Yeah, I mean it it made me realize that that

734
00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:35.840
we were just not on the same page at all

735
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:38.639
in terms of like here I am just kind of

736
00:45:38.679 --> 00:45:43.440
like supplementing my feelings and focusing on her hurt and

737
00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:46.559
waiting patiently for her to do the same to me.

738
00:45:47.480 --> 00:45:50.199
And this made me feel like she wasn't intending on

739
00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:51.079
doing that ever.

740
00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:53.559
So what did you say about the herd did what

741
00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:55.519
did it? Were you guys kind of arguing about it?

742
00:45:55.599 --> 00:45:57.239
Yeah, we were for sure arguing.

743
00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:58.519
Okay, and then so what did you did you say

744
00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:00.599
anything to her? I said it out.

745
00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:03.599
Yeah, I said like, like, I I need you to

746
00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:06.000
move out, like this is this has gone far enough.

747
00:46:06.599 --> 00:46:07.400
I need you to move out.

748
00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:09.960
And I'm gonna tell people why you're moving out, and

749
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:12.559
and I'm gonna show them what you did because like,

750
00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:15.840
unless you face this and unless you take full accountability

751
00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:17.679
for this, like we're never gonna get through this.

752
00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:21.280
So so, and that was like after you guys have

753
00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:24.079
been kind of arguing a while about I mean, an

754
00:46:24.199 --> 00:46:27.039
argument starts, you guys are arguing. You're telling her, no,

755
00:46:27.159 --> 00:46:28.280
you're telling her all these things.

756
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:31.280
Yeah, I mean the argument developed more, you know, more

757
00:46:31.320 --> 00:46:32.760
slowly than what just happened.

758
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:34.719
And there's other things said too, but that was.

759
00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:36.920
That's how that it culminated with you telling her wealth

760
00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:38.360
that's the case. If that's how you feel, you got

761
00:46:38.440 --> 00:46:46.960
to move on. Yes, okay, what did she say anything

762
00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:50.719
to you about about her about her mom and Gianna?

763
00:46:51.559 --> 00:46:54.119
She did so, Like earlier in the conversation, she had

764
00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:56.760
be like, well, what if my mom chaperones my work

765
00:46:56.760 --> 00:46:57.320
trips with him.

766
00:46:57.320 --> 00:46:58.760
And I was like, no, like I'm not I'm telling

767
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:01.320
not okay with that, Like that's not long term Bible solution.

768
00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:03.119
And then later in the argument, when things kind of

769
00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:06.360
got heated, she was like, actually, my mom just said

770
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:08.599
the chill chaperone the trip, and she thinks Jeff is

771
00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:10.239
interesting and can't wait to meet him. And I'm like,

772
00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:14.000
you're obviously telling them a whole different version of what

773
00:47:14.119 --> 00:47:14.880
happened in me.

774
00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:18.519
So so in the in the argument and in her

775
00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:22.119
in her effort to say for you to be okay

776
00:47:22.159 --> 00:47:24.480
with it and go on the trip, she said, well,

777
00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:25.840
what if my mom choper owns me?

778
00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:26.239
Yes?

779
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:33.280
After you know, it comes to this point in argument

780
00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:34.320
where you say, well, you know what, you got to

781
00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:35.880
move out down. I want to tell everybody what you did.

782
00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:38.199
I mean, it was a pretty it got it got

783
00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:40.840
it got to kind of a it was a not

784
00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:43.159
a good conversation. It sounds like, yeah, okay, so what

785
00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:44.480
did you What did you do next?

786
00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:47.880
I stomped off. I just stomped off up the trail.

787
00:47:48.320 --> 00:47:50.440
And this was a point where we were both really

788
00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:53.159
kind of just upset with each other, and I went

789
00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:56.519
one way and she went the other way.

790
00:47:57.199 --> 00:47:58.159
How far up did you go?

791
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:00.920
Five to ten minutes?

792
00:48:02.599 --> 00:48:03.639
Why did you turn around?

793
00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:09.280
I uh, I was kind of at a loss of

794
00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:13.559
of of not not kind of a loss I was.

795
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:18.599
I just didn't want to be there, Like like.

796
00:48:18.639 --> 00:48:20.199
Did it make sense for you to keep grounding?

797
00:48:20.199 --> 00:48:21.480
It's like no, I you know.

798
00:48:21.519 --> 00:48:23.599
I like five or ten minutes in, I was like

799
00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:26.039
realizing kind of where I was, and I was like,

800
00:48:26.039 --> 00:48:27.000
I don't want to be here. I want to go

801
00:48:27.039 --> 00:48:28.840
home and like start dealing with what we need to

802
00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:29.159
deal with.

803
00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:31.360
I don't want to you know. I got to the

804
00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:32.360
point where you where it.

805
00:48:32.320 --> 00:48:34.559
Opens up and it's like these these beautiful views, and

806
00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:37.480
I'm like there by myself and you know, upset, and

807
00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:38.480
I was like, I don't want to be on the

808
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:40.000
hike by myself, upset, and I don't want to do

809
00:48:40.039 --> 00:48:41.199
this hike. I'm going to come back and do this

810
00:48:41.280 --> 00:48:43.360
hike at a different time when I'm happy. I was.

811
00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:44.800
I was really looking forward to doing the hike.

812
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:47.599
When you had him back down, where you're expecting Ariel

813
00:48:47.679 --> 00:48:50.440
to be where you had left there? No where, what

814
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:51.519
are you expecting her to be?

815
00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:53.800
I thought she went to the car because I saw

816
00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:56.960
her you head, you know, down the trail, and you know.

817
00:48:56.960 --> 00:48:59.599
There was testimony that that when you that's you know,

818
00:49:00.039 --> 00:49:01.559
she said when you got there, you said, oh you're

819
00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:03.239
still here. Did you say that to you?

820
00:49:03.320 --> 00:49:03.559
Yes?

821
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:06.199
And is that because you assumed she had gone back

822
00:49:06.199 --> 00:49:11.039
to the parking lot? Yes? How far away from the

823
00:49:11.079 --> 00:49:14.320
parking lot were you guys when this argument started.

824
00:49:14.559 --> 00:49:16.639
Like five minutes or less? Provaly?

825
00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:24.559
Yeah, okay, now you get back what is her demeanor

826
00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:25.480
and behavior like?

827
00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:31.519
Now like one eighty reversal basically, So she was like

828
00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:35.920
extremely apologetic and said, you know, basically I'm so sorry.

829
00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:41.000
You're right, like I need to take accountability and like,

830
00:49:41.519 --> 00:49:44.360
let's just you know, not ruin the day.

831
00:49:45.400 --> 00:49:46.159
I don't want to ruin the day.

832
00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:47.840
Don't want to want to ruin a trip, and and

833
00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:50.320
and let's keep talking about this in therapy and and

834
00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:53.320
and she said, like, you know, I won't travel with Jeff.

835
00:49:53.679 --> 00:49:55.280
Did you guys end up taking a selfie?

836
00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:57.360
Yeah? First, she was like.

837
00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:03.039
Again like almost man like, like super happy, and was

838
00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:05.880
trying to basically, you know, get me to be in

839
00:50:05.920 --> 00:50:06.519
a better mood.

840
00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:08.559
And and and she was like I'm gonna clean this tree.

841
00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:10.760
Take you know, take pictures of me and this tree.

842
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:11.840
And so she haand on me in her phone and

843
00:50:12.519 --> 00:50:14.840
I took some pictures of her in the tree. And

844
00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:17.360
then after that, she said, let's take a selfie by

845
00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:18.039
the cliffs edge.

846
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:21.519
That was her idea. Yes, okay, do you guys take one?

847
00:50:21.679 --> 00:50:22.039
We did?

848
00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:24.519
And what happened after that?

849
00:50:26.840 --> 00:50:32.679
Right after the selfie, I just I just remember kind

850
00:50:32.679 --> 00:50:35.559
of staying at the edge there and looking over the

851
00:50:35.639 --> 00:50:37.719
edge and just kind of still in thought about everything

852
00:50:37.719 --> 00:50:39.280
that had just happened and what's going on?

853
00:50:40.719 --> 00:50:41.760
And then.

854
00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:47.599
I felt like a shove and I was almost pushed

855
00:50:47.599 --> 00:50:48.159
over the edge.

856
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:53.880
Okay, you felt a shove? Okay, who shoved you?

857
00:50:54.760 --> 00:50:56.559
Andry did what did you do?

858
00:50:56.719 --> 00:50:57.199
Right after that?

859
00:50:59.320 --> 00:51:02.119
Barely caught mylf and turned around and looked at her

860
00:51:02.159 --> 00:51:03.960
and I was like, what the fuck was that?

861
00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:06.840
Like turned her honest and she was like what what

862
00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:08.519
like was like kind of in chocolate what what?

863
00:51:08.639 --> 00:51:08.920
What was?

864
00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:09.599
What the fuck was that?

865
00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:10.079
Yes?

866
00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:14.760
Okay? And then did you move towards her? Yeah?

867
00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:15.039
I did.

868
00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:18.719
I was like just asking her, like, you know, what

869
00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:22.199
was that? And and started walking towards her, because at

870
00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:24.079
this point she was like five or ten feet away

871
00:51:24.119 --> 00:51:24.360
from me.

872
00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:27.880
So you walked towards her, and h you mentioned where

873
00:51:27.880 --> 00:51:29.920
your you were you when you're walking towards you, where

874
00:51:29.960 --> 00:51:35.239
were your hands out? Okay? Now did you did you

875
00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:36.079
get close to her?

876
00:51:36.760 --> 00:51:37.719
Yes? Eventually yeah.

877
00:51:37.960 --> 00:51:40.960
And when, by the way, when you start walking towards her,

878
00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:42.320
is she yelled? Is she saying anything?

879
00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:45.480
Not initially, But I turned around and I'm asking her, like,

880
00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:47.679
what the hell's you know, what the fuck just happened and.

881
00:51:47.599 --> 00:51:48.199
What's going on?

882
00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:51.400
And as I'm starting to walk towards her, she starts yelling.

883
00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:56.159
She starts yelling, yeah, help me, help me okay, And

884
00:51:56.199 --> 00:51:57.239
then what happens?

885
00:51:57.639 --> 00:51:59.639
And then I just keep talking to her, like what

886
00:51:59.639 --> 00:51:59.960
do you do?

887
00:52:00.679 --> 00:52:01.599
And I get like, why are you?

888
00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:02.519
Yeah, what are you doing?

889
00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:04.039
And I get to her and I'm like, you know,

890
00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:08.039
I'm like, you know, touching or just putting my my

891
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:10.280
my hands on on her arms, and I was.

892
00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:11.519
Like, what are you doing? What's going on?

893
00:52:11.559 --> 00:52:14.199
What happens is then she keeps yelling and and she

894
00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:16.599
kind of grabs my wrists and throws herself on the

895
00:52:16.599 --> 00:52:18.400
ground and pulls me down with her.

896
00:52:18.920 --> 00:52:22.280
So now you guys are on the ground, yes, okay,

897
00:52:23.559 --> 00:52:26.800
when you're on the ground, what starts to happen.

898
00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:32.880
She's holding on to me, and I'm trying to you know,

899
00:52:32.920 --> 00:52:34.280
I'm trying to figure out what's going on. But I'm

900
00:52:34.280 --> 00:52:37.199
also at this point trying to let go of, like

901
00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:39.519
trying to get free, because she's like actively holding on

902
00:52:39.559 --> 00:52:41.320
to me, like she has she says, she has her

903
00:52:41.360 --> 00:52:42.880
leg like wrapping on one of my legs, and like

904
00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:45.239
is actively holding on to me, and is and and

905
00:52:45.519 --> 00:52:48.119
is and is yelling and so I'm trying to, you know,

906
00:52:48.239 --> 00:52:50.599
get free, and I and I get my my one

907
00:52:50.679 --> 00:52:52.880
arm free, and I try to use it to get

908
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:56.119
my other arm free, and she grabs me by the testicles.

909
00:52:56.199 --> 00:52:59.119
And let me stop you there. Did you ever, in

910
00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:02.760
the course of this whole thing you described so far,

911
00:53:03.400 --> 00:53:09.400
ever try to pull her towards, push her off, or

912
00:53:09.480 --> 00:53:11.079
drag her towards the cliff's edge?

913
00:53:11.239 --> 00:53:11.920
No, not at all.

914
00:53:12.800 --> 00:53:15.519
Okay, So you guys are you're on the ground, she is,

915
00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:17.159
she's kind of holding on to you. She you guys,

916
00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:22.239
just would would just kind of like a scuffle going on. Yes,

917
00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:25.440
things and her legs wrapped around you. Yes, you mentioned

918
00:53:26.159 --> 00:53:28.079
we got right up to the point where you said

919
00:53:28.599 --> 00:53:33.519
she grab your testicles. Is that right? Yes, how hard

920
00:53:33.559 --> 00:53:34.280
did she grab it?

921
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:37.880
I mean this was yeah, like she like was holding

922
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:40.559
on to me by my testicles, basically like that hard.

923
00:53:41.440 --> 00:53:42.800
Did she grab it and let go or does she

924
00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:43.440
grab it hold on?

925
00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:44.719
She grabbed it and held on.

926
00:53:46.440 --> 00:53:53.519
Now what happens after she does that?

927
00:53:54.719 --> 00:53:59.400
Then I try to free my testicles, and so I'm

928
00:53:59.639 --> 00:54:03.239
like thrashing with with Then I get both hands free

929
00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:05.639
and I'm trying to get her to let go of

930
00:54:05.719 --> 00:54:09.800
my testicles, and then she hits me with a rock

931
00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:10.400
on the side.

932
00:54:10.199 --> 00:54:13.920
Of the face. She's holding on to your testicles. You're

933
00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:18.360
kind of focused on that, obviously, and and then at

934
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:19.840
some point while you're focused on that.

935
00:54:20.559 --> 00:54:21.800
It happened all really fast.

936
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:24.599
But yeah, I'm glad you raised that. Was this like

937
00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:26.920
happening slowly.

938
00:54:26.599 --> 00:54:29.639
Where you all happened within like I mean probably less

939
00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:31.880
than a minute, maybe quickly slightly more than a minute,

940
00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:35.199
but I mean two minutes or something from from from

941
00:54:35.320 --> 00:54:38.679
from from the moment that like we were on on

942
00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:39.920
the ground and she was grabbing.

943
00:54:39.639 --> 00:54:42.480
My testicles, was like it happened quickly.

944
00:54:43.519 --> 00:54:48.519
Everything after the grabbing of the testicles happened very quickly, and.

945
00:54:48.519 --> 00:54:50.320
You weren't timing it or anything. This is just your

946
00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:55.280
best set your okay. So now she's holding on to you,

947
00:54:55.320 --> 00:55:01.559
she's squeezing your testicles, and you kind of dealing with

948
00:55:01.599 --> 00:55:03.800
dot and she's on she's on the ground. You're kind

949
00:55:03.800 --> 00:55:07.920
of on top of her. Yes, okay. And you said

950
00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:11.440
then you felt you got hit with the rock?

951
00:55:11.519 --> 00:55:11.800
Yes?

952
00:55:11.880 --> 00:55:12.719
Where'd you get hit.

953
00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:14.880
On the side, on the left side of my face?

954
00:55:14.920 --> 00:55:19.079
How many times she kept doing it? The first blow?

955
00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:21.320
She she she landed really well, and after that I

956
00:55:21.400 --> 00:55:22.320
was able to block.

957
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:26.159
Fairly well. She she did like land a couple more,

958
00:55:26.159 --> 00:55:27.760
but not not as bad as the first one.

959
00:55:27.880 --> 00:55:29.320
She still got your testicle.

960
00:55:29.400 --> 00:55:31.360
Yeah, so she's like holding my testicle and it was

961
00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:33.920
like hitting me like that. And now do you stop

962
00:55:34.760 --> 00:55:38.039
dealing with You just focused on the rock at this point, yeah,

963
00:55:38.199 --> 00:55:38.880
ok yeah.

964
00:55:39.800 --> 00:55:41.239
Did it hurt when you got hit with the rock?

965
00:55:41.440 --> 00:55:41.559
Did?

966
00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:45.920
Could we? Could we publish? What's in evidence is Exhibit

967
00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:54.079
D thirty Your hon he yes, okay, okay, your heart

968
00:55:54.400 --> 00:55:57.480
is this? Is this where you got hit with the rock?

969
00:55:57.639 --> 00:55:57.960
Yes?

970
00:55:58.920 --> 00:56:04.079
Is that the area? Yes, we can take that down.

971
00:56:06.239 --> 00:56:10.519
Now you get hit with the rock. Explaining to the

972
00:56:10.599 --> 00:56:12.840
jury what happens next and why.

973
00:56:12.920 --> 00:56:15.599
I was able to wrestle the rock out of her hand.

974
00:56:16.760 --> 00:56:20.559
She still has her testicles? Yes, still squeezing on Yes, what.

975
00:56:20.679 --> 00:56:23.480
Do you I was able to like, so we're like,

976
00:56:23.599 --> 00:56:25.599
she's hitting me, and I'm like blocking, and then I

977
00:56:25.639 --> 00:56:28.800
start like you know, and I get the rock.

978
00:56:28.920 --> 00:56:30.039
Yes, is it near her face?

979
00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:31.039
Yes?

980
00:56:31.159 --> 00:56:35.000
I mean it's it's yeah, it's happens, and I finally

981
00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:35.519
get the rock.

982
00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:37.039
What did you do?

983
00:56:37.199 --> 00:56:38.400
I hit her with the rock?

984
00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:41.159
How many times you thing you hit her?

985
00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:42.119
I hit her two times?

986
00:56:43.360 --> 00:56:45.159
And when you did was she still holding on to

987
00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:46.440
your testicles?

988
00:56:46.519 --> 00:56:47.480
In yes?

989
00:56:53.480 --> 00:56:56.239
Why did you hate her? Why did you react that way?

990
00:56:58.559 --> 00:57:00.599
Just on an instinctive and myself?

991
00:57:02.519 --> 00:57:07.280
How fast was this all happening? M hm, pretty fast,

992
00:57:07.400 --> 00:57:15.239
really fast. In between when she hit you with the

993
00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:20.639
rock and in between the times she hit you with

994
00:57:20.679 --> 00:57:23.400
the rock and when you hit her with the rock,

995
00:57:23.960 --> 00:57:26.519
were you able to safely retreat and get away from her?

996
00:57:27.440 --> 00:57:27.920
No?

997
00:57:28.280 --> 00:57:31.960
Why not? She was holding on me, including your testicles.

998
00:57:32.039 --> 00:57:32.320
Yes.

999
00:57:34.840 --> 00:57:39.440
Did you hit her in the face or the eye

1000
00:57:39.480 --> 00:57:42.280
with the rock where you said two times? Where did

1001
00:57:42.320 --> 00:57:42.679
you hit.

1002
00:57:42.599 --> 00:57:44.519
Her on the side of the head.

1003
00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:50.480
So we've seen these photos of the steady laceration you

1004
00:57:50.559 --> 00:57:55.280
caused that by hitting her right, yes. Did you continue

1005
00:57:55.280 --> 00:57:57.280
to hit her after those first those two hits?

1006
00:57:57.400 --> 00:58:01.599
No? And why not because she stopped fighting. She's let

1007
00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:03.840
go of my testicles and was able to stand up,

1008
00:58:03.840 --> 00:58:04.480
and then you stop.

1009
00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:08.480
Yes, you know there was testimony about the two witnesses.

1010
00:58:08.519 --> 00:58:10.639
Did you Did you stop hitting her because the witnesses

1011
00:58:10.639 --> 00:58:11.079
showed up?

1012
00:58:11.159 --> 00:58:11.239
No?

1013
00:58:11.440 --> 00:58:13.480
I didn't know that they were there until after I

1014
00:58:13.480 --> 00:58:13.880
stood up.

1015
00:58:16.719 --> 00:58:21.320
Did you see blood? Yes? Was there a lot of blood.

1016
00:58:21.480 --> 00:58:22.360
There's a lot of blood.

1017
00:58:23.960 --> 00:58:27.719
Did you see her kind of scoot down towards the witnesses.

1018
00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:28.320
Yes.

1019
00:58:28.480 --> 00:58:30.119
Did you try to stop her in any way?

1020
00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:30.480
No?

1021
00:58:33.760 --> 00:58:36.199
You let her, You let her get to them.

1022
00:58:36.440 --> 00:58:36.760
Yes.

1023
00:58:41.239 --> 00:58:43.960
Did you hear her yelling to the witnesses he's trying

1024
00:58:43.960 --> 00:58:44.440
to kill me?

1025
00:58:44.639 --> 00:58:44.960
Yes?

1026
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:50.480
Garhard. Did you have any syringes on the mountain that day?

1027
00:58:50.599 --> 00:58:50.840
No?

1028
00:58:51.480 --> 00:58:53.079
Did you try to poke her or stab her with

1029
00:58:53.119 --> 00:59:00.280
any syringes? No? Okay, now, Garhard, she scoots away, she's

1030
00:59:00.280 --> 00:59:04.159
now with the two witnesses. You see a lot of blood.

1031
00:59:04.159 --> 00:59:06.280
What do you what? What do you physically do? Now?

1032
00:59:09.199 --> 00:59:10.559
I'm just in a daze, and I just kind of

1033
00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:15.039
watch her crawl away and then and then leave with

1034
00:59:15.159 --> 00:59:16.760
the other two hikers.

1035
00:59:17.639 --> 00:59:19.480
Okay, she got the hikers. What do you do next?

1036
00:59:19.559 --> 00:59:21.880
Was was her bag in your bag? There?

1037
00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:25.239
Yeah? So I just kind of reflexively gather up all

1038
00:59:25.280 --> 00:59:29.199
of our stuff and and then I start walking up

1039
00:59:29.199 --> 00:59:29.599
the trail.

1040
00:59:30.199 --> 00:59:34.679
Let me ask you this, at this point, immediately following

1041
00:59:34.719 --> 00:59:38.599
what just happened, you saw, you know, you guys had

1042
00:59:38.599 --> 00:59:46.440
this scuffle. You saw a lot of blood. What was

1043
00:59:46.480 --> 00:59:51.079
your state of mind and emotional state like right now,

1044
00:59:51.159 --> 00:59:53.000
right at this point that we're.

1045
00:59:52.280 --> 00:59:54.599
At, it's a severe emotional distress.

1046
00:59:58.039 --> 01:00:00.320
How did you feel at that time about the fact

1047
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:06.800
that you had responded and defending How did you feel

1048
01:00:07.079 --> 01:00:09.280
about the fact that you and you know, even though

1049
01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:11.199
you say it was you know, you were defending yourself.

1050
01:00:11.199 --> 01:00:14.360
How did you feel about that she was bleeding? Okay?

1051
01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:18.840
Did you ever plan on hurting her that day? Did

1052
01:00:18.840 --> 01:00:24.119
you ever want to hurt her that day? You reacted

1053
01:00:24.159 --> 01:00:26.239
to defend yourself in the heat of that moment, you

1054
01:00:26.280 --> 01:00:30.360
said yes, yes, But did you still feel bad about it?

1055
01:00:30.559 --> 01:00:30.920
Yes?

1056
01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:44.800
You mentioned that you were in uh, some kind of

1057
01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:50.920
extreme emotional distress. I think you said, okay, yes, did

1058
01:00:50.920 --> 01:00:53.639
you become at some point after that suicidal?

1059
01:00:53.840 --> 01:00:54.000
Yes?

1060
01:00:55.079 --> 01:01:00.239
Why? Why to the jury? Why the best of your understanding.

1061
01:01:00.480 --> 01:01:06.159
I've I just felt hopeless at that point in terms

1062
01:01:06.239 --> 01:01:13.880
of everything, Like I.

1063
01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:13.360
I felt horrified, horrified about.

1064
01:01:13.079 --> 01:01:16.480
What I did to her, like that I caused this

1065
01:01:16.760 --> 01:01:20.400
to her, that I had resorted to violence against my wife,

1066
01:01:20.480 --> 01:01:22.559
the person who I loved the most in the world,

1067
01:01:24.159 --> 01:01:27.000
and and just kind of felt hopeless.

1068
01:01:26.639 --> 01:01:31.880
In terms of our relationship to Okay, and that being said,

1069
01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:34.440
I mean, in that moment, were you defending yourself when

1070
01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:35.280
you reacted that way?

1071
01:01:35.480 --> 01:01:38.920
Yes? Oh yes?

1072
01:01:42.760 --> 01:01:44.719
What did you do in next? Now you're heading Now

1073
01:01:44.719 --> 01:01:46.320
you're heading up the hill? What are you doing next?

1074
01:01:48.840 --> 01:01:51.519
I just kind of kept walking up and kind of

1075
01:01:51.519 --> 01:01:53.800
got to the same place that I had made it

1076
01:01:54.119 --> 01:01:57.400
the last time, where the trail opens up and you're

1077
01:01:57.639 --> 01:02:06.039
finally on the ridge and.

1078
01:02:02.519 --> 01:02:03.639
And we're thinking, I'm a jumping.

1079
01:02:03.840 --> 01:02:06.480
I mean, I had ready decided, and I decided to jump,

1080
01:02:07.920 --> 01:02:09.800
and kind of last second was.

1081
01:02:12.320 --> 01:02:14.960
Made. The decision to call Emil is to say goodbye.

1082
01:02:15.360 --> 01:02:18.679
Now, Emil is his son from a prior marriage, and

1083
01:02:18.719 --> 01:02:22.679
he does indeed call Emil, and he places two calls.

1084
01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:26.840
And Emil testified about these two calls, and he said

1085
01:02:26.840 --> 01:02:29.760
his dad face timed him and told him that his

1086
01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:33.320
stepmom Ariel had been cheating on him, and that he

1087
01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:35.920
had tried to kill her, and that he planned to

1088
01:02:36.039 --> 01:02:40.360
jump off that cliff. And imagine your dad calling you

1089
01:02:40.519 --> 01:02:43.719
and telling you this. He said. He told his dad

1090
01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:47.199
not to do it, and he was struggling to recall

1091
01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:50.039
many of the points of that first call, and it's

1092
01:02:50.039 --> 01:02:53.440
important to mention he was struggling to recall many points

1093
01:02:53.480 --> 01:02:57.039
of that first call. Now, he did ask his dad

1094
01:02:57.079 --> 01:02:59.880
what was on his shirt because he saw blood because

1095
01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:03.719
this was a FaceTime call, and his dad said it

1096
01:03:03.760 --> 01:03:07.199
was Ariel's blood, he said. The call then ended and

1097
01:03:07.239 --> 01:03:09.920
he goes to Ariel's parents' house and he tells them

1098
01:03:10.199 --> 01:03:13.119
what his dad had told him. So a second call

1099
01:03:13.400 --> 01:03:17.000
gets placed to him from his dad via FaceTime. This

1100
01:03:17.039 --> 01:03:19.920
is about an hour later. Dad asked him if he

1101
01:03:19.960 --> 01:03:23.440
was going to tell anybody, to which he responded yes,

1102
01:03:24.039 --> 01:03:26.639
and he said that he was going to jump, and

1103
01:03:26.760 --> 01:03:30.159
again his son tries to talk him out of it,

1104
01:03:30.239 --> 01:03:33.480
and Dad says, I gotta go before the police get here,

1105
01:03:33.719 --> 01:03:36.760
and he hangs up. So in this next clip, I

1106
01:03:36.800 --> 01:03:41.760
think it's important what doctor Cunnig said about these conversations

1107
01:03:41.760 --> 01:03:45.039
with the son, because to me, this is the entire

1108
01:03:45.239 --> 01:03:48.960
cusp of this case. If he in fact told his

1109
01:03:49.079 --> 01:03:52.400
son he tried to kill Ariel, that seals it right.

1110
01:03:52.920 --> 01:03:55.119
So here's doctor Cunnig's version.

1111
01:03:55.599 --> 01:03:58.159
First of all, where were you when you face well?

1112
01:03:58.599 --> 01:03:59.559
Was that a FaceTime?

1113
01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:01.199
It was? It was FaceTime?

1114
01:04:01.320 --> 01:04:04.360
Yes, Where were you when? When? When you did this FaceTime?

1115
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:08.000
It was a spot where the trail.

1116
01:04:09.199 --> 01:04:11.559
Wasn't right next to the cliff edge because the cliff

1117
01:04:11.599 --> 01:04:13.360
edge at that point wasn't really an edge.

1118
01:04:13.360 --> 01:04:13.840
It was like a.

1119
01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:19.320
Like a like a ten foot kind of sloped part

1120
01:04:19.559 --> 01:04:21.719
and then the edge, And so I was basically between

1121
01:04:21.760 --> 01:04:24.400
the cliff edge and the trail kind of hanging onto

1122
01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:26.639
the side of the mountain. Was it a kind of

1123
01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:30.000
steepish area, yeah, very steep. And were you kind of

1124
01:04:30.039 --> 01:04:34.679
like on the side of the mountain? So you gotta yes, sorry, okay, And.

1125
01:04:34.559 --> 01:04:37.159
So so just to be clear, the place you face

1126
01:04:37.199 --> 01:04:40.440
timed him from, was that the place that the incident

1127
01:04:40.519 --> 01:04:45.039
took place? Okay? On the FaceTime, would it have looked

1128
01:04:45.039 --> 01:04:46.920
like you were on kind of the edge of a mountain?

1129
01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:47.800
Yes?

1130
01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:53.719
Were you on speakerphones? Yes, I mean like holding it

1131
01:04:53.760 --> 01:04:54.880
where he could see your face?

1132
01:04:55.400 --> 01:04:57.639
Yes, no, And I showed him. I showed him the

1133
01:04:57.719 --> 01:04:59.000
view and where I was like.

1134
01:04:59.519 --> 01:05:04.440
There was tes stimony from police officers that that's it

1135
01:05:04.480 --> 01:05:08.000
was a windy day and notoriously windy area was Do

1136
01:05:08.039 --> 01:05:09.599
you recall it being pretty windy that day?

1137
01:05:09.840 --> 01:05:11.360
It was windy? Yeah, up there, So.

1138
01:05:11.320 --> 01:05:14.960
You're on the side of a cliff mountain. You have

1139
01:05:15.079 --> 01:05:19.559
him on speaker on FaceTime. Uh, it's windy, is that right?

1140
01:05:19.840 --> 01:05:20.039
Yes?

1141
01:05:23.079 --> 01:05:26.559
You were extremely emotional at that time. Yes, So that's

1142
01:05:26.599 --> 01:05:28.000
the context of this phone call.

1143
01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:28.400
Correct.

1144
01:05:28.679 --> 01:05:29.039
Yes.

1145
01:05:32.039 --> 01:05:36.199
Did you tell him that Ariel had was well you were.

1146
01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:38.480
You were calling him to say goodbye? Is that right?

1147
01:05:38.639 --> 01:05:38.840
Yes?

1148
01:05:39.079 --> 01:05:41.360
It was your purpose to explain to him the whole,

1149
01:05:41.679 --> 01:05:46.679
every last detail of what happened. No, but you did

1150
01:05:46.719 --> 01:05:49.599
tell him several things, right, Yes. Did you tell him

1151
01:05:49.639 --> 01:05:51.400
that Ariel had been having an affair?

1152
01:05:51.719 --> 01:05:52.119
I didn't.

1153
01:05:54.239 --> 01:05:56.039
Did you tell him that, you know, she got hurt,

1154
01:05:56.079 --> 01:05:56.920
her head was bleeding?

1155
01:05:58.000 --> 01:06:01.119
Yeah? After he about the blood of my shirt.

1156
01:06:02.159 --> 01:06:04.559
Now did you did the word kill come up in

1157
01:06:04.599 --> 01:06:05.159
the conversation?

1158
01:06:06.320 --> 01:06:07.119
It probably did.

1159
01:06:07.480 --> 01:06:10.199
What What do you recall explaining to him about that.

1160
01:06:11.719 --> 01:06:13.960
I didn't recall explaining.

1161
01:06:15.639 --> 01:06:17.400
The only thing I can think of is that I

1162
01:06:17.440 --> 01:06:22.360
said that she said I tried to kill her.

1163
01:06:22.199 --> 01:06:25.440
So, so let's break back that up. So you were

1164
01:06:25.480 --> 01:06:29.599
you told him that the blood was hers? Yes, yes,

1165
01:06:29.639 --> 01:06:31.760
And you're telling him that you need you're gonna jump

1166
01:06:31.920 --> 01:06:37.320
and yes, okay, And did you tell him something about well,

1167
01:06:37.679 --> 01:06:39.119
we're going to get to the part about the police,

1168
01:06:39.519 --> 01:06:41.679
but you're telling him about how you're going to jump.

1169
01:06:42.400 --> 01:06:46.559
And you were saying you heard her say to the

1170
01:06:46.599 --> 01:06:52.480
witnesses he tried to kill me. Were you explaining to

1171
01:06:53.280 --> 01:06:53.960
that to email?

1172
01:06:54.679 --> 01:06:56.440
No, So I was saying I.

1173
01:06:58.400 --> 01:07:00.320
Was talking to myself at the same time, too, And

1174
01:07:00.360 --> 01:07:02.320
I was basically saying like because I remember saying like, wow,

1175
01:07:02.360 --> 01:07:06.719
this is like so hard, because it turns out killing

1176
01:07:06.719 --> 01:07:08.440
yourself was a hard thing to do once you actually

1177
01:07:08.440 --> 01:07:10.159
like go go and do it. And so I was

1178
01:07:10.159 --> 01:07:12.639
like talking to him about like saying goodbye and and

1179
01:07:12.639 --> 01:07:16.039
and she had an affair and those things. But then

1180
01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:18.920
I was also kind of like talking to myself and

1181
01:07:18.920 --> 01:07:22.039
and I think I was saying to myself, like she

1182
01:07:22.159 --> 01:07:24.320
said I tried to kill her. She said I tried

1183
01:07:24.360 --> 01:07:24.800
to kill her.

1184
01:07:25.079 --> 01:07:25.400
Okay.

1185
01:07:26.360 --> 01:07:28.360
Were you confessing to him that you had and you

1186
01:07:28.400 --> 01:07:31.679
were trying to kill Arida? No? Okay, were you did

1187
01:07:31.719 --> 01:07:34.559
you have an intention to kill Era dot Day? Would

1188
01:07:34.639 --> 01:07:36.880
you have said it that way? I tried to kill

1189
01:07:36.880 --> 01:07:37.519
Aria at Day?

1190
01:07:37.559 --> 01:07:37.679
No?

1191
01:07:37.840 --> 01:07:41.760
Okay, but you don't. You don't dispute that the word

1192
01:07:41.840 --> 01:07:42.760
kill probably came up?

1193
01:07:43.039 --> 01:07:43.960
No, okay?

1194
01:07:45.519 --> 01:07:49.519
And can you understand how email and in that conversation

1195
01:07:49.599 --> 01:07:50.719
could have got that impression?

1196
01:07:51.760 --> 01:07:52.039
Yes?

1197
01:07:54.840 --> 01:07:56.880
So what else happens in this first call? What do

1198
01:07:56.880 --> 01:08:00.800
you mean when you say he tried to He tried

1199
01:08:00.840 --> 01:08:02.800
to convince you not to jump.

1200
01:08:03.880 --> 01:08:09.000
He basically just and I mean to his credit, I

1201
01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:09.320
mean he.

1202
01:08:09.960 --> 01:08:13.679
Uh, he just reminded me that I had a choice,

1203
01:08:13.679 --> 01:08:19.119
basically reminded me to have a choice, because he said, like,

1204
01:08:19.239 --> 01:08:21.840
you know, do you do you really have to do this?

1205
01:08:23.479 --> 01:08:28.800
After that, did he got to follow him? Well, he

1206
01:08:28.840 --> 01:08:35.159
didn't jump, right. There was a second call an hour later, Yes,

1207
01:08:35.520 --> 01:08:39.520
and he testified that he was at his Ari's parents house.

1208
01:08:39.560 --> 01:08:41.199
Is that right? Yes?

1209
01:08:41.680 --> 01:08:42.119
Okay?

1210
01:08:42.640 --> 01:08:46.600
Now during that call, did did he did he tell

1211
01:08:46.680 --> 01:08:50.840
you what he told to his parents?

1212
01:08:51.079 --> 01:08:51.319
Yes?

1213
01:08:51.479 --> 01:08:53.279
What did he tell you that he told his parents?

1214
01:08:54.399 --> 01:09:00.600
He said, well, yeah, he said I I told him

1215
01:09:00.640 --> 01:09:01.880
that you tried to kill Erry.

1216
01:09:02.880 --> 01:09:04.960
And what was your reaction to that?

1217
01:09:05.359 --> 01:09:06.840
I was like, why why would you say that?

1218
01:09:09.520 --> 01:09:12.199
And you didn't mean that in the first call, right, okay,

1219
01:09:12.239 --> 01:09:13.319
So you're telling him why why?

1220
01:09:13.319 --> 01:09:14.840
And I didn't know at that point. I was like

1221
01:09:15.239 --> 01:09:17.319
so confuse that why he would say that?

1222
01:09:17.439 --> 01:09:20.079
Okay? And then then what did you say to him

1223
01:09:20.079 --> 01:09:20.760
after that?

1224
01:09:20.840 --> 01:09:22.600
I said, I gotta go. I got you off the phone.

1225
01:09:23.239 --> 01:09:25.399
And did you say to him because you were going

1226
01:09:25.479 --> 01:09:26.720
to kill yourself again?

1227
01:09:27.119 --> 01:09:27.479
Yes?

1228
01:09:27.880 --> 01:09:28.800
Did you say to him?

1229
01:09:29.239 --> 01:09:31.319
I said, I, I never mind, I got to think

1230
01:09:31.319 --> 01:09:34.880
about this. I I'm probably gonna kill myself, okay.

1231
01:09:35.600 --> 01:09:38.039
And did did you say something to him about I

1232
01:09:38.039 --> 01:09:39.640
gotta go so the police won't find me?

1233
01:09:40.239 --> 01:09:40.560
Yes?

1234
01:09:40.760 --> 01:09:42.560
And what did what do you mean by that? Why?

1235
01:09:42.800 --> 01:09:44.359
Why were you trying to avoid the police?

1236
01:09:45.960 --> 01:09:50.760
I I didn't want my choice of killing myself taken

1237
01:09:50.760 --> 01:09:54.640
away at that time until I had made the decision

1238
01:09:54.880 --> 01:09:55.760
to either do it or not.

1239
01:09:56.560 --> 01:09:59.239
So what do you think now? Why you're moment on that?

1240
01:09:59.520 --> 01:10:03.960
Let's get to it. And while Ariel is heading down

1241
01:10:04.119 --> 01:10:07.720
that mountain after about six hours set his doctor Kuennig.

1242
01:10:08.119 --> 01:10:11.479
He heads down the trail and here's a car at

1243
01:10:11.479 --> 01:10:14.239
some point behind him. When he gets on the main road,

1244
01:10:14.720 --> 01:10:18.039
and sure enough it's the police and he is taken

1245
01:10:18.119 --> 01:10:22.840
into custody. In his words rather roughly. Now, let's talk

1246
01:10:22.840 --> 01:10:28.079
about the syringe. Remember his wife Ariel had mentioned he

1247
01:10:28.159 --> 01:10:30.520
pulled out a syringe and tried to injector with it.

1248
01:10:30.600 --> 01:10:33.960
So his story was that there was a work bag

1249
01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:36.279
that was with him, because when they got him back

1250
01:10:36.720 --> 01:10:40.520
to the headquarters to question him, they dumped out the

1251
01:10:40.600 --> 01:10:42.439
bag he had with him and had all kinds of

1252
01:10:42.439 --> 01:10:45.800
syringes in it, and he had to explain that, and

1253
01:10:45.840 --> 01:10:48.640
he said, look, that's an oor bag that I used

1254
01:10:48.640 --> 01:10:51.439
when I'm on call and before we came on this trip.

1255
01:10:52.039 --> 01:10:55.920
That or bag was with me, and Ariel knows that

1256
01:10:55.960 --> 01:10:58.840
I carry all that stuff in it. Now, why would

1257
01:10:58.840 --> 01:11:01.640
he bring it on the hike? That's my question, not

1258
01:11:01.760 --> 01:11:04.680
that he had it with him in a wahoo, but

1259
01:11:04.800 --> 01:11:07.319
why would he have it on that hike? And his

1260
01:11:07.439 --> 01:11:12.079
statement was the last shift before this trip, he had

1261
01:11:12.159 --> 01:11:14.920
the bag with him, and so he just brought it

1262
01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:17.279
with him. He didn't go home first, he went straight

1263
01:11:17.319 --> 01:11:20.880
to the airport. Okay, that might even make sense, but

1264
01:11:20.920 --> 01:11:24.920
why did you have it on that hike? That's questionable

1265
01:11:25.199 --> 01:11:29.199
to me. So we'll move on. This was on March

1266
01:11:29.279 --> 01:11:32.359
twenty fourth, twenty twenty five, and on March twenty eighth,

1267
01:11:32.680 --> 01:11:37.600
he was indicted on a second degree murder charge. Now,

1268
01:11:37.680 --> 01:11:41.479
during his plea hearing, he pleads not guilty, and it's

1269
01:11:41.600 --> 01:11:45.279
during this hearing that his bail is denied and he

1270
01:11:45.399 --> 01:11:48.359
is going to have to stay in jail until his trial.

1271
01:11:48.800 --> 01:11:52.760
In the meantime, in May of twenty twenty five, Aeriel

1272
01:11:52.960 --> 01:11:58.119
files for divorce, and on March nineteenth of twenty twenty six,

1273
01:11:58.720 --> 01:12:02.960
his trial starts and everything that I just told you

1274
01:12:03.159 --> 01:12:07.359
comes out. Prosecutors they're claiming that he tried to knock

1275
01:12:07.399 --> 01:12:10.800
her out with a rock, inject her with syringes full

1276
01:12:10.840 --> 01:12:13.880
of drugs, all in an attempt to push her off

1277
01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:18.119
that cliff, and the doctor's story is that this was

1278
01:12:18.159 --> 01:12:21.239
all self defense. So over the course of the next

1279
01:12:21.279 --> 01:12:25.640
three weeks, everyone testifies, and this was a tough one

1280
01:12:25.720 --> 01:12:29.359
for me personally. I struggle to understand why the doctor

1281
01:12:29.399 --> 01:12:33.840
would take so much risk. I listened to all the testimony,

1282
01:12:34.159 --> 01:12:37.760
and to be honest, I found the doctor more believable

1283
01:12:38.000 --> 01:12:40.640
than his wife. She just seemed like she was hiding

1284
01:12:40.760 --> 01:12:45.439
something on that stand. But regardless, in the end, I

1285
01:12:45.479 --> 01:12:49.920
think it was doctor Koenig's son and his testimony it

1286
01:12:50.039 --> 01:12:53.000
was very credible. Wouldn't make sense why he tried to

1287
01:12:53.039 --> 01:12:56.000
lie about his dad. I think this is what kind

1288
01:12:56.039 --> 01:12:58.680
of sealed it for me. I mean, I believe his

1289
01:12:58.840 --> 01:13:02.079
son when he said my dad said quote his stepmom

1290
01:13:02.239 --> 01:13:05.840
was cheating on his dad and he tried to kill heruote.

1291
01:13:06.239 --> 01:13:09.800
So the question is, did I think doctor Kuenig is

1292
01:13:09.840 --> 01:13:10.920
a cold blooded killer?

1293
01:13:11.039 --> 01:13:11.159
No?

1294
01:13:11.640 --> 01:13:13.640
I don't do I think he had some sort of

1295
01:13:13.720 --> 01:13:17.239
plan that day to kill his wife. No, I don't.

1296
01:13:17.880 --> 01:13:21.479
I think she asked him about traveling with her boss

1297
01:13:21.600 --> 01:13:25.119
on that hike and he just fucking lost it. But

1298
01:13:25.720 --> 01:13:30.279
what would a jury think, Well, after eight hours of deliberation,

1299
01:13:30.600 --> 01:13:33.279
they would agree, but they didn't find him guilty of

1300
01:13:33.359 --> 01:13:38.239
second degree murder on a lesser charge of attempted manslaughter.

1301
01:13:39.399 --> 01:13:41.760
And that's the difference between a life sentence and a

1302
01:13:41.760 --> 01:13:46.720
maximum of twenty years in jail. So this verdict occurred

1303
01:13:46.840 --> 01:13:51.159
on April eighth, and his sentencing is scheduled for August thirteenth,

1304
01:13:51.239 --> 01:13:56.039
And of course I will keep you posted on that verdict.

1305
01:13:56.079 --> 01:13:58.600
But there you have it. And I think the jury

1306
01:13:58.640 --> 01:14:02.600
got it right here book second degree murder has to

1307
01:14:03.600 --> 01:14:07.880
have some intent to it. I think this guy flipped out,

1308
01:14:08.880 --> 01:14:11.399
and I don't know that he was even trying to

1309
01:14:11.520 --> 01:14:13.760
kill her. It's hard for me to explain. This is

1310
01:14:13.880 --> 01:14:17.479
just my opinion, but I think a manslaughter or attemptive

1311
01:14:17.479 --> 01:14:21.960
manslaughter charge is more appropriate and probably more accurate. I'd

1312
01:14:22.000 --> 01:14:24.920
love to know your opinion on it. Thank you so

1313
01:14:25.000 --> 01:14:27.000
much for listening. Check out the Patreon I'm going to

1314
01:14:27.039 --> 01:14:29.880
upload a bunch of files on this case. Of course,

1315
01:14:29.920 --> 01:14:33.600
we do commercial, free early releases, bonus episodes, quarterly gifts,

1316
01:14:34.079 --> 01:14:37.560
and files all through the Patreon site. I love and

1317
01:14:37.640 --> 01:14:40.640
appreciate every single one of those people for supporting what

1318
01:14:40.760 --> 01:14:43.119
I do here on Exposed. Couldn't do it without them.

1319
01:14:43.560 --> 01:14:47.199
Thank you so much, and until next time for exposed

1320
01:14:47.439 --> 01:14:51.039
scandalous files of the elite, I'm your host, Jim Chapman.

1321
01:14:51.640 --> 01:15:01.800
Much love, se