April 27, 2021
CD19: bitcoin hardware with @ketominer and @nvk
EPISODE: 0.1.9
BLOCK: 680852
PRICE: 1823 sats per dollar
TOPICS: bitcoin hardware
@ketominer: https://twitter.com/ketominer
@nvk: https://twitter.com/nvk
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00:00 - Tesla's investment in Bitcoin
01:39 - Reasons to be optimistic about digital currency space
08:13 - Bitcoin Tuesday and Citadel Dispatch
45:33 - The future of consumer-grade models
46:13 - Privacy concerns with Casa's node
48:09 - The benefits of third-party security management
01:27:24 - Original Casa and Raspberry Pi
01:28:23 - SSD upgrade for computers
01:29:12 - Embedded Ryzen from AMD
02:11:00 - Resurgence of paid porn and new platforms
02:12:03 - The evolution of the porn industry and the rise of OnlyFans
02:13:10 - Introduction of Open Sats and supporting open source development
02:50:53 - Leaving fun messages on the podcast
02:51:48 - Being nice to others
02:54:18 - Upcoming episodes with guests
WEBVTT
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:33:13 PM
Duration: 10489.939
Channels: 1
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Retail question is, master of coin, can you tell us anything about Tesla's future plans in digital currency space
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or when any such major developments might be revealed?
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Sure. Thanks, Martin.
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So as I noted in our opening remarks and we've announced previously, so Tesla did
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invest 1,500,000,000
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into Bitcoin in q one, and then we subsequently sold a 10% stake stake in that. We also allow customers to make
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vehicle deposits
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and final vehicle
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purchases using Bitcoin.
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And so where our our Bitcoin story began, maybe just to share a little of the context here,
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Elon and I were looking for a place to store cash that wasn't being immediately used,
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try to get some level of return on this, but also preserve liquidity,
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Particularly as we look forward to the launch of Austin and Berlin and uncertainty that's happening with semiconductors
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and port capacity,
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being able to access our cash very quickly is super important to us right now.
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And there aren't many traditional opportunities to do this or at least that we found and in talking to others that we could get good feedback on, particularly with yields being so low
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and without taking on additional risk or sacrificing liquidity.
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And, and Bitcoin seemed at the time and and so far has proven to be,
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a good decision,
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a good place to place some of our cash that's not immediately being used for daily operations or or maybe not needed till the end of the year
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and, be able to get some return on that.
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And, you know, I I think one of the key points that I wanna make about our experiences in the digital currency space
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is that there's a lot of reasons to be optimistic here. We're certainly watching it very closely at Tesla,
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watching how the market develops,
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listening to what our customers are saying.
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But, you know, thinking about it from a corporate treasury perspective,
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been quite
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pleased with how much liquidity there is in in the Bitcoin market. So our our ability to build our first position happened very quickly.
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When we did the sale later in March, we also were able to execute on that very quickly. And so as we think about kind of global
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liquidity for the business and risk management,
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being able to get cash in and out of the market is something that I think is exceptionally important for us.
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So we do believe long term in the value of Bitcoin, so it is our intent to hold what we have long term
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and continue to accumulate Bitcoin from
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transactions from our customers as they purchase vehicles.
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Specifically, with respect to things we may do,
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there are things that we're constantly discussing.
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We're not planning to make any announcements here. We're watching this space closely.
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So when we're ready to make an announcement on this front, if there's one to come, you know, we'll certainly let you all know.
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Oh, shit, freaks. Happy Bitcoin Tuesday.
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It's your boy, Matt O'Dell, here for our weekly
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dispatch. 19 straight Bitcoin Tuesdays so far.
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Kind of unbelievable that we've gotten this far so quickly.
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Couldn't have done it without you guys. So cheers to all of you that are here. Cheers to all of you that have been here in the past.
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Looking forward to doing this every fucking week,
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for as long as we can make it happen.
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This is Citadel dispatch 19, the interactive live show about Bitcoin distributed systems privacy and open soft source software.
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To those joining us from our various audio streams, whether that's our 2 podcast feeds, the Tales from the Crypt podcast feed, and the Citadel dispatch dedicated feed, or from the various podcasting 2 point o apps.
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That intro clip was Tesla's CFO,
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AKA Master of Coin, Zach Kirkhorn,
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on their
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q one earnings call.
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Absolutely unbelievable
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that that's the kind of conversation that's happening at an S and P 500 company.
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Also unbelievable
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that the haters tried to make that seem bearish.
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It's the most bullish fucking thing I've heard
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in in at least weeks. This is Bitcoin land, so we move fast.
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Shout out to the ride or die joining us live as always, whether that's Twitter, Twitch, or YouTube.
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You guys make this chat. You guys make this, this show. You guys make dispatch what it is.
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To those that are here, obviously, this is our earlier time slot
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because we have Kito joining us from,
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from Europe,
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I consider this our European time slot, 1700 UTC. So we have our 21 100 UTC, normal time slot,
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then we have our 1700 UTC is our European time slot. This is a global show. This is a global movement. It's kinda cool that the live chat,
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is is gonna be populated with different freaks,
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because of the different time slots. So thank you guys for being here.
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To those counting at home, this is the 3rd time that we've that we've used this European time slot, the 1700 UTC.
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Shout out to daddy Warbits on Twitter
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at daddy warbits.
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It comes to my attention that some of you freaks didn't even realize, but we had a giveaway last week courtesy of daddy warbits.
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It was announced after the outro music, so a lot of you missed it.
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We had a winner on Twitter, and we had a winner in our sphinx tribe. The Sphinx tribe actually took, like, 3 days before the winner actually came. Someone actually,
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you know, responded to the to the queue, which was you had to say, Bitcoin's designed to pump forever, Matt.
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And both those winners got free tickets to Bitcoin 2021 courtesy of Daddy Warbits. And those tickets have massive resale value. So,
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shout out to him for providing them free to the freaks. That's pretty cool. And it was his idea to do it at the end of the outro music,
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and incorporate the sphinx tribe so that the rider dies were the ones who got it. So that's really cool. The sphinx tribe is now over 200 people, 200 freaks.
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Very active community over there. So if you haven't made it, consider joining.
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And just in general, I just wanted to thank all the freaks that have been supporting dispatch.
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It's pretty fucking cool. I wanna keep this ad free and sponsor free. So so your support means a ton,
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especially the freak that just randomly dropped a 100 k sats into into the tip and dot me
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wallet with no message.
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Freaks, you can leave a message if you want.
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Either way, it is very much appreciated.
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With all that said, what else do I have? I redesigned citadel dispatch.com.
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So now all of the important links are there. You can also easily support the show,
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using Bitcoin there. You can also easily join the Sphinx tribe
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through that website as well. And then me and Wiz have been working on a little project that we're excited to announce, and that's bitcointv.com,
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which every episode of Citadel dispatch,
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so far has been hosted there, and every future episode will be as well. You can find links to that at citadel dispatch.com.
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Completely uncensored over there. I don't have to worry about takedown requests.
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YouTube's just constantly fucking with my archives.
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Twitch doesn't keep archives. So you know, at any moment, you can get the full back catalog
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of Citadel dispatch over at bitcointv.com.
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So shout out for to Wiz
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for doing that,
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hosting the Citadel servers over there. He's gonna be on next week. I don't know who he's gonna be on with yet. I haven't decided, but that should be a fucking fantastic show. That'll be at the normal time again. So 21 100 UTC. So check that out.
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I know I have a lot of shout outs here. Oh, one last thing.
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I stumbled into,
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the Apple Podcasts
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app, and, apparently, there's a shit coiner over there who doesn't like the show because we only focus on Bitcoin. So
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if you are a freak that owns an Apple phone, consider searching Citadel Dispatch in your in the podcast app and
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leaving a good review.
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It it is appreciated.
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With all that said,
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I got my 2 good friends here, Kita Miner and NVK. NVK, you all know,
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is, you know, massive return guests here at Citadel Dispatch. It's very good to have them again.
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Keydominer,
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I've been trying to get on this fucking show since the beginning. He kept putting me off. He said he said, Matt, you know, if we do it 3 weeks in the future, we do it at 1700 UTC. I can do it. So I held him to that, and here we are. We finally have him. Kito, what's up? Say hi to the freaks.
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Hey. What's up, freaks? Thanks for having me.
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MVK, you wanna say hi to the freaks so they can remember your voice?
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Hello.
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I need a robot voice for this thing.
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And,
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just to reiterate,
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because I kinda just missed that,
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Cheetah Miner is the cofounder,
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of
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Noddle,
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which is a home node,
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and they also now have Nodl Cloud.
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Freaks might remember last week, I mentioned that our
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long standing,
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tails from the crypt node stacking sats, if you start stacking sats on one dot ml
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one ml.com,
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has now been moved to Nauta Cloud, and the minimum
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has been minimum channel size has been reduced to 500 k sats. So now that fees are cleaning up,
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consider opening a channel there. It's well connect
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I've already balanced channels manually with 2 freaks who did it. So shout out to them for getting their shit done. And, you can reach me on Telegram or Keybase if you wanna manually
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balance that out.
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So with all that said, I mean, we're gonna start with the focus on Bitcoin hardware,
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and then we're just gonna, in proper dispatch fetch fashion,
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just constantly, you know, just just go from there. We're just gonna meander around.
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And I guess before we even get to that, I mean, let's just you know, everyone loves you know, I know we're all in this in it for the tech, but,
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this, this week just reminded me of 2017. Like, it's pretty crazy.
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You know, I, like, teased for the the dispatch announcement on on Twitter. I teased that,
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one of the topics was gonna be that it's bear hunting season.
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It just feels like all of a sudden, like, you know, we we the price dumped a little bit, and everyone just got super bearish.
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And
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I was kinda waiting for this to happen because it happened so often in 2017. And meanwhile,
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here we are, you know, we're probably sitting around the same price that dispatch was last week.
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So you guys have any thoughts on that? MBK, you have any thoughts on that?
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I mean, how can anybody be
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bearish where Bitcoin is over $50,000?
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I mean,
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you know, that just sink in a bit. Right? It's like, it's a project that's only 10 years old. It's over a $1,000,000,000,000,
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and we have
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essentially every single Bitcoin meme has permeated
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mainstream
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where,
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you know, where you have
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like, you know, fortune 5 100 buying 6.15
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Bitcoin.
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You have,
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you know, CFOs being described as master of coin.
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You know, like NFL players asking to get their salaries paid in Bitcoin.
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I think, I think bitcoin has arrived.
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To be a bear on this is pretty silly.
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Anybody who understands how,
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like, treasuries work in in any sort of, like, bigger entity
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understands that they're gonna have rebalancing
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sort of policies,
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sort of to keep everybody,
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you know, to keep shareholders off their ass, to keep, you know, things going and also to keep the treasuries healthy with cash flow, knows that all these entities
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are gonna rebalance, dump,
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you know,
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10 to 30% of their positions depending on the on the on the asset,
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appreciation.
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Right? So as Bitcoin pumps,
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they're gonna dump,
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and it makes perfect sense because that's what, a rational actor does,
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in a in a cash flow need position. Right?
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Remember, these guys are, like, not people, right, that can just save. They need cash flow. They're not people.
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Yeah. I mean, like, it's like it's a it's a corporate entity. Right? Like, they they're a company. They have cash flow needs.
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Did you update bitcointreasuries.org?
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Nah. Not yet. I'm waiting for the numbers to come out. They didn't give any hard numbers, really.
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Yeah.
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I What what what MBK is referring to is,
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so they so so Tesla, S and P 500 company, bought $1,500,000,000
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worth of Bitcoin.
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So that's $1,500,000,000
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more Bitcoin than
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overwhelming majority of companies and people have.
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And they sold a small portion of it,
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maybe, like, a month and a half or 2 months later.
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What? I think they sold 9% of the the ATH.
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Right. But
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but the price pumped a shit ton as well. So, presumably, they're holding over $2,000,000,000 worth of Bitcoin Mhmm. Conservatively
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speaking.
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And and as as NVK said, they changed the name of the CFO to master of coin. So this idea that people are saying it's bearish is a
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kind of I kind of love it, to be honest. Like, this is this is, like, where I thrive. I don't like when everyone agrees with me. I don't want CNBC to agree with me. I want CNBC to tell us that we're that
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we're going down to 0,
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and I I, you know, I wanna trade against that. That that's, like, where I, like, feel comfortable.
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Remember. Right? Tesla,
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bought their position in Bitcoin.
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So, like, at at the ATH, they would have been at 2.5x.
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So 250%
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appreciation on their Bitcoin position. Right? This was their most profitable quarter ever, I'm pretty sure. Well, I mean, it's the only time they made a profit.
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I think they made more profit from Bitcoin than they ever made from selling anything.
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That's crazy. They made more profit than than they've they've made on card made on this one little Bitcoin sell. Yeah.
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Like, what do you think, Kito? Like, there's a lot of
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Are you bearish, Kito? Yeah. I I I think, like, they're just using Bitcoin to hedge on their other businesses.
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That's all.
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I I'm sincerely
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not bearish or bullish. I'm just using Bitcoin in, in the everyday life of Nodal because we have to we only get Bitcoin, and we have to pay our supplies in fiat.
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So I I'm usually setting up the worst moment and and get them at the highest price. So You don't accept credit card at Nautilus? No. We still don't.
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It's a work in progress.
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We need a company for that, first of all. We don't have that yet.
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So,
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yeah, anyway and, yeah, so last week, I ended up rebuying something,
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in the deep when which I just sold to pay a supplier and then paid him a few days later.
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So no. What what's what's really a pain for us is the fees, the transaction fees because
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we are managing
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a ton of lightning channels. We are opening and closing channels daily.
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And, recently, we
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we just can't work anymore.
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Oh, we gotta talk about this because this is something we were talking about last week. We had about, you know, over an hour discussion about this, and I think it's something that people,
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dismiss is this this idea of dealing with lightning in a high transaction fee environment.
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Before I do that, I just wanted to say, I'm pretty excited about this show because
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you guys both produce Bitcoin hardware, Bitcoin products that I enjoy, I appreciate, I use.
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And I think it's very unique in the space that, you know,
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I I bought the products from you. I've never shilled a ref link of either of yours. You've never been my sponsors, and I think you're both best in class. So cheers to both of you guys,
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for for building such great products,
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And and especially, like, n v
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keto, like, that's fucking crazy that you're running a Bitcoin only business,
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with no fiat. I I don't know.
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I don't think there's, like I I I can't think of another company off the top of my head that only accepts Bitcoin and and does accept fiat.
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We tried that in 2014. We gave up.
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Yeah. I mean, that's why my call
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The price just kept on going down.
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So, like, we had to just, like it was updating the price too much on the shopping cart. So it just, like, fuck it. We're good in the nominating fee. The overwhelming majority of people,
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but when they buy Coin Kai products, they pay with credit card. Right?
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No.
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Actually,
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it depends on which direction the price is going.
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It's normally a 30, 70 sort of split, but it could be on the other side. No. It could be on the other side as well. It could be Bitcoin or it could be, credit card. It really depends on the price, direction.
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That's interesting. So I guess in practice, we could just call that, like, 5050.
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Yeah. It's pretty much. Yeah. On our side, first few big price changes, we were, like, anticipating people will start buying less or more after the price change. And usually what happens is, like, price goes up big time. People are buying more models. Price price goes down. People are buying more models. So,
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I I guess since we don't accept Fiat,
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many people just exchange at the moment of buying
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anyway.
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Yeah. For us, it's more like if the price is going up, people start getting scared, right, that now their money's worth something, their Bitcoin's worth something, so they wanna protect it,
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with their cold cards. And then It's a way to cash out without KYC.
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Yeah. But and then there is also,
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like, all the the new people into the space. Right? When the when the price really pumps, not like, you know, midweek pump. I'm talking about, like, when the price ATH is then you see the all the the the new people into Bitcoin that Like 2020 so far.
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No. No. No. The the the this this last ATH,
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had,
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quite a bit of
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quite a bit of traffic in.
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I I don't know. It's actually all over the place. And then when there's sales, of course, we will buy a ton.
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We we find this cycle. I've this cycle
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whenever my
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my,
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whenever I have new corners that I know from
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my life, and they come to me and they say, what should I do? I'm just
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I'm there there's no more, like, pussy footing around. I'm just telling them, you know, you gotta go straight to cold card and running your own using your own node, and I've just fucking
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there's there's no more, like, treasure ledger, hold your hand bullshit, like, just fucking just fucking go for it. So at least I've sent at least 5 or 6 new corners over to to buy an Uncle Jim bundle,
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over the last month and a half, you know, anecdotally.
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Now we we sell a lot of those,
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and then there's all the other stuff. Right? Like, the seed plate.
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It's, like, cheap and good, so, like, people buy a lot of those, and then fuck. The block clock meaning is sort of, like, a little bit of a
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a black swan there in sales. Right? The Moscow time. Yeah. I mean, the the Jack Dorsey cameo must have,
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juiced your sales a lot.
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I mean, we were already back ordered.
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Now it's,
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but the good thing is we're sort of catching up now is we've just said, you know, fuck it. I don't care. Just, you know, increase production. Right? Freaks, NVK has never even given me estimate numbers on any of his products sold Ever. And it's it's been a lifelong goal of mine. So every time I see it, if he's, like, a little bit drunk on Twitter or something, I'll send him a quick Telegram message just, like, fishing for numbers, and I've just never been successful.
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I almost I think there was, like, one RHR where I was just pretending I knew the numbers to see if I could trigger him to say in the numbers and that that You know, I find that in Bitcoin space, there's nothing to be gained from releasing numbers.
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You're just telling your competitors,
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right, how much you're selling
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and how much, you know, they're gonna, like,
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like,
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go fud your product.
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What MBK is really telling you is that they don't really sell any cold cards. There's very few, and he's just ashamed of his numbers. So he just doesn't wanna let him know. Yeah. No. We we don't sell anything.
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It's actually cold card is a myth.
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It's actually a calculator.
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Nobody has ever received one. All the pictures you see online,
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it's all fake.
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It's just one big conspiracy.
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Mhmm.
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I'll say, though, that you could assume that
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every single real Bitcoiner
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has one.
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Because if you don't have one, you're not a real Bitcoiner?
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Yeah. I mean but real Bitcoiners have more than one anyways.
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I have so many. I still have 5 of your shitty m k ones
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that just were unusable, but then I I have 3 of them Do you know how much those are gonna be worth for the secondary market of collectibles?
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I just like to love how old I was. How many I have.
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Yeah. I mean, just to, just like aside from the ones that he bought, there is also the ones that I sent him.
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Yeah. I I mean, like, everybody knows. Right? It's like, if you work on open source and you need a hardware wallet,
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like, to to test wallets or to do anything, like, essentially, we just send, like, you know, more than one for free.
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What a man.
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I just wanna do a quick shout out. Someone said in the comments, and they were very right. The comments have gone by quickly, so I forget who specifically said it.
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But Citadel 21 also is Bitcoin only.
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Yeah.
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If if you think of any other Bitcoin only nonfiat accepting companies, feel free to just throw them in the live chat.
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Actually, do you have to be nonfiat to be Bitcoin only, or is fiat tolerated in this in the I think I don't think I don't think it's a wise
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like,
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if you can take,
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Fiat, you should because you're gonna increase your sales.
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And that's gonna prevent you from selling Bitcoin because you're gonna just use the Fiat cash flow, which you're gonna have to need anyways.
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Right? Yeah. Totally. And you can always convert the fiat into Bitcoin.
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Exactly. So that's what we did. We bought the dip at Queen Kite. We bought every fucking dip,
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and and and, you know, we've been doing that for, like, years. Right? So it's like it's
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it's nice that, like, most people
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that are our customers know that, like,
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when they pay us in Bitcoin,
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we're also holding the price up because we don't sell if if unless we absolutely need to because of cash flow.
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It's like we just don't sell Bitcoin.
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Yeah. I mean, this is like a narrative that I've been talking about lately. It's like, you know, like 2015,
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2014 was like the year of, like, trying to get merchant adoption. That was bullshit merchant adoption where, like, they were all using BitPay, and they were just automatically converting to to dollars.
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So, like, they were just market selling it. And I think, like, this cycle is a cycle
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where we should really promote companies
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that receive money in Bitcoin and ideally through, like, something like BTC pay server and that has no third parties, and they just hold as much of the Bitcoin as possible.
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And those are the types of companies that I'm happy support, and I think that is becoming a little bit more feasible with stuff like Strike because Strike is, like, almost a reverse payment processor. You know? It's,
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you know, Key2Miner might not have a relationship with traditional finance, you know, to have,
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to to accept debit cards or whatever. But if if it's a strike user on their side, they're using a debit card. They don't really realize, and and Keter's getting the Bitcoin that he wants. Right?
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Yep. It's, there is a lot of customers of ours that do use strike, to buy our stuff. So, essentially, it's just buy and replace. Right?
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Spend and replace.
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Exactly.
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And and just, Kito, I mean, I guess we can call Bitcoin only,
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Fiat too, but I just
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I I the the point was that I was specifically calling out the fact that you guys have have never accepted Fiat, which I think is just commendable. I fucking love it. I just love that you're
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you know, it's it's probably not the best business decision, but I I love that it's all in. And, I mean, look, at the end of the day It will happen one day, and it it might be sooner than than we thought.
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At the end of the day, you can't even sell more Nautilus right now. Right? Like, you're completely
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you've sold as many Nautilus as possible. Your your demand is higher than your supply.
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Yeah. So what what what happens that's a that's a good point. What what happened recently is our supply order got canceled the day it was supposed to be delivered,
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because of the silicon shortage in China. So some chips,
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are on back order on the boards we are buying, and and the production
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slowed down because of that.
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So what we did now is we order directly from the manufacturer,
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in China or in Shenzhen.
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And, hopefully, we will receive I I just got the notification that 2 packages left by UPS,
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just today,
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and they should arrive on Thursday. And after checking what's inside, we'll be able to announce some hard dates for for the deliveries and reopen the orders.
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We we prefer to close the orders,
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than to keep,
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keep having people back ordering just because we we just we couldn't give any date, any hard date, until
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probably Thursday this week.
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Yeah. The the the the the the supply shortage for parts is pretty crazy.
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We we got to a point where it's like we do, like, reasonable parts management,
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but, you know, it's still, like, longer lead times and, you know, we're, like, we're just some parts were just sort of, like, paying extra,
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from secondary market and then,
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and then just eating that that loss. But,
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it's it's pretty like, I don't think people appreciate how
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insane the shortage is on parts for everything.
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Yeah. I I bought some boards from importers in Europe for twice the prior the regular price. So there's 2 things going on. Right? One is, like, most suppliers are using this as an excuse to
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to charge more, right, even though they have inventory.
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There's a lot of that going on.
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The other thing is,
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ICs,
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like, actual chips, not just passives. Right? So it's not like resistors or or capacitors, not that kind of stuff.
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Actual chips.
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They,
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they they just have too much demand. It's not even that like, COVID slowed them down a little, but it's not really that. It's just that, like, you know, record sales of cars, record sales of boats, record sales of all kinds of electronics, right, the last 2 years.
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So they just can't can't build factories fast enough to to deliver it.
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I mean, Tesla was talking about that their cars, you know, their cars are are,
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dealing with the chip shortage. It's like everyone. The fucking ASICs are dealing with the chip shortage.
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Are are we are people is this priced in? Like, I'm feeling FOMO. I I, you know, I recently, fortunately, got a new computer.
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I already have 2 Nautilus.
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I have I'm not gonna say how many cold guards I own.
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You know, I'm I'm glad that I'm sitting pretty with all this fucking hardware,
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and even I'm feeling FOMO. Like, do we are are we concerned are you guys concerned that this is going to get significantly worse? I feel like these types of things don't just solve themselves overnight. They tend to be lagging type of situations.
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I don't think you get much worse than this, but what I'm gonna say is
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if you need hardware,
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especially
365
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Bitcoin hardware,
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and,
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you should be buying yesterday
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and just wait a little longer with some patience.
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Because if we have another ATH
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Which we will.
371
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Like soon. Bear. Right?
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It's gonna take a long time for you to get it. So,
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seriously, it's like just order and and, you know, just wait. Forget that you order. It's gonna come. You know? Like, sometimes it comes in 48 hours. Sometimes it comes in 2 weeks depending,
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you know, how UPS, FedEx, and all those guys are dealing with COVID too.
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00:29:30.075 --> 00:29:34.655
We have stuff in stock aside from Block Lock Mini, which we're making as we ship.
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It's just that, you know, there is also the the the couriers. They're all screwed with COVID.
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Especially by you.
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Right.
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And,
380
00:29:46.985 --> 00:29:55.639
so anyways yeah. So, like, just just order and wait. I mean, it's like, who cares if it's gonna take 2 weeks instead of, like, 2 days. Right? It got so bad in 2017.
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Like, people could just expect that it's it's like the retail the retail wave hasn't even really gotten here yet. I know you guys think, especially if it's your 1st cycle, you think it's it's happened. How's it started? They're gonna hit us so fucking hard, and it's gonna be almost impossible to get the good products. You're gonna have to, like, settle with with with worse inferior shit, basically.
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00:30:17.050 --> 00:30:23.025
Well, you do have it now. And and just and just think about it in your head. Like, you know, I I think nowadays,
383
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especially my generation,
384
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we've gotten so enamored or complacent with this idea of, like, 2 day free shipping from Amazon
385
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that when they see something that has a longer lead time that says, you know, like, oh, you're not gonna get it for 3 weeks or 4 weeks or something, They tend to put it off and procrastinate,
386
00:30:41.675 --> 00:30:44.975
and they just don't buy it because they're like, oh, it's not gonna come that quickly.
387
00:30:45.275 --> 00:30:54.830
But it's it's very simple logic. The sooner you order it, the sooner you will get it. And it's just better to just fucking buy it and just get it fucking done with, and it'll come when it comes.
388
00:30:55.154 --> 00:30:55.815
You know,
389
00:30:56.115 --> 00:30:58.695
last the last bull market, right,
390
00:30:59.235 --> 00:30:59.735
trends,
391
00:31:00.274 --> 00:31:04.970
Ledger, which is, like, sort of let's say that they're the biggest one for sales numbers
392
00:31:05.430 --> 00:31:06.650
because they have a $60
393
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device. I mean, besides cold card because we don't know the numbers. Well, no. No. No. Let them have the top. I I just let them have the top. I don't care.
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They were, I think, like, a 2, 3 month back order.
395
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So, like, people don't appreciate that when the wave comes, it comes, and there is no amount of us preparing inventory can fill it.
396
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Like, it it gets pretty crazy.
397
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So,
398
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seriously,
399
00:31:36.465 --> 00:31:36.965
order
400
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:41.860
because you're gonna need it when that BTC is 10 times the price.
401
00:31:42.639 --> 00:31:45.139
Right? So that would be $500,000.
402
00:31:47.115 --> 00:31:50.975
You're gonna sit very scared with that sitting on your phone wall.
403
00:31:56.289 --> 00:32:01.350
So, Keto, what do you what do you think about people that want novels? What should they do? How are you handling that?
404
00:32:02.545 --> 00:32:07.925
Well, they can't order or preorder anyway right now because we we don't want to risk having
405
00:32:08.465 --> 00:32:11.200
more orders than what we can make.
406
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:20.995
Really wait until the end of the week. We should have good news for you. Why don't you just I feel like I feel like if you provide proper communication
407
00:32:21.455 --> 00:32:25.054
when they order, people want just wanna get on a wait list. Like, why not allow them to
408
00:32:25.810 --> 00:32:26.310
Yeah.
409
00:32:26.770 --> 00:32:28.070
Most people said that,
410
00:32:28.690 --> 00:32:29.510
we had,
411
00:32:29.890 --> 00:32:31.510
of of the latest,
412
00:32:32.530 --> 00:32:37.375
2 months of orders, we probably had 2 requests for refunds because of too much waiting.
413
00:32:38.955 --> 00:32:40.975
But, yeah, most people accept waiting.
414
00:32:41.675 --> 00:32:42.175
Yeah.
415
00:32:42.475 --> 00:32:43.535
You know, it's like
416
00:32:43.899 --> 00:32:46.639
I think the biggest problem is, like, eager noobs
417
00:32:46.940 --> 00:32:48.399
that just came into the space
418
00:32:49.100 --> 00:32:51.600
that, like, you know, are so used to Amazon
419
00:32:53.705 --> 00:32:54.284
that like,
420
00:32:54.985 --> 00:32:59.804
come on. Right? And, like, it's have you never ordered something outside of Amazon?
421
00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:04.860
I I know, like, 50 different retailers that I buy from, right, that are not Amazon,
422
00:33:05.320 --> 00:33:08.060
that are completely, like, unrelated to electronics,
423
00:33:08.515 --> 00:33:13.415
that when I buy from them, it might take 2, 3 weeks to come. Some stuff like you buy takes 3 months.
424
00:33:14.835 --> 00:33:23.010
Yeah. I don't buy on Amazon anymore if I can help it. Like, I've I've converted the majority of my stuff to try and try and go more direct to manufacturer.
425
00:33:24.030 --> 00:33:24.850
I I think,
426
00:33:26.405 --> 00:33:34.960
any freaks out there that that are capable of doing that should do that instead. It's it's just better for the ecosystem as a whole as well, and you get a better deal usually.
427
00:33:38.060 --> 00:33:38.560
Yep.
428
00:33:39.820 --> 00:33:46.375
Just because you don't have like, Amazon's gonna take a 30% cut if you go through Amazon. So Not just that. I mean, they stop Well, I actually garbage.
429
00:33:48.275 --> 00:33:50.535
Yeah. Yeah. You you you will find the same
430
00:33:51.050 --> 00:33:58.350
AliExpress products just with a premium. But on the other hand, I don't know how the situation is in the US. But in Europe,
431
00:33:59.195 --> 00:34:03.615
if you buy from Amazon, Amazon is responsible for providing the warranty and
432
00:34:04.315 --> 00:34:08.950
and do something in case of a problem. So that's probably that here. To do that.
433
00:34:12.290 --> 00:34:16.230
Yeah. That's that's Europe specific. We don't have that here. You you guys like to impose,
434
00:34:17.075 --> 00:34:19.015
burdensome regulation on US companies,
435
00:34:20.355 --> 00:34:22.535
and our government's just run by them. So,
436
00:34:23.475 --> 00:34:23.975
the,
437
00:34:25.720 --> 00:34:31.819
so so before I mean, we've I guess, let's continue talking about Bitcoin hardware, then we'll go to the lightning conversation.
438
00:34:33.015 --> 00:34:36.155
The so Bitcoin hardware, you guys both produce
439
00:34:36.615 --> 00:34:38.635
top end Bitcoin hardware in the space.
440
00:34:40.910 --> 00:34:41.570
You know,
441
00:34:42.190 --> 00:34:44.590
Bitcoin is an interesting beast. Right? Like, you have
442
00:34:46.190 --> 00:34:47.650
in in other industries,
443
00:34:48.785 --> 00:34:50.325
we've seen a consolidation.
444
00:34:50.704 --> 00:34:53.285
It's it's dominated by the top tech companies.
445
00:34:54.305 --> 00:34:58.085
You know, there's a handful of tech companies, the the Apple, Googles, Microsofts,
446
00:35:00.130 --> 00:35:05.990
you know, and then, like, the the second tier, but top still, like, the Sony's and Panasonics and stuff like that.
447
00:35:07.095 --> 00:35:11.275
In the Bitcoin space, all the big players haven't come in yet. You know, the Samsungs,
448
00:35:11.575 --> 00:35:13.115
none of them have come in yet.
449
00:35:13.734 --> 00:35:14.234
So
450
00:35:14.650 --> 00:35:18.350
it's a very interesting dynamic, but at the same time, you also have,
451
00:35:19.290 --> 00:35:20.510
increased trust
452
00:35:20.890 --> 00:35:23.550
concerns. Right? You have increased security concerns.
453
00:35:24.215 --> 00:35:26.955
Don't it's a completely different ballgame almost
454
00:35:27.495 --> 00:35:29.035
than mainstream hardware.
455
00:35:29.575 --> 00:35:30.555
How do you
456
00:35:31.789 --> 00:35:35.490
navigate that? How do you like, to someone who's thinking about maybe
457
00:35:35.869 --> 00:35:41.155
joining the fray of the Bitcoin hardware space, like, how should they approach it? To to consumers
458
00:35:41.935 --> 00:35:47.315
who are looking to buy Bitcoin hardware? What are the things they should consider that are different from, like, buying a phone?
459
00:35:47.810 --> 00:35:52.310
Right? Like I I I think the the big players such as Samsung, that's a very good example,
460
00:35:53.650 --> 00:35:56.715
are silently watching and and just hiding,
461
00:35:57.195 --> 00:35:57.935
right now.
462
00:35:58.955 --> 00:36:03.615
I don't know if you remember that, but Ledger is partially owned by Samsung now.
463
00:36:04.750 --> 00:36:06.050
How much they invested?
464
00:36:06.589 --> 00:36:07.089
Yeah.
465
00:36:08.270 --> 00:36:14.135
That makes sense because Ledger is, like, the most corporate of all the big But, also, like, I I think
466
00:36:14.995 --> 00:36:17.895
people have to realize that, like, Bitcoin now
467
00:36:18.195 --> 00:36:19.655
is the equivalent of, like,
468
00:36:20.035 --> 00:36:21.575
us selling apple twos,
469
00:36:22.279 --> 00:36:26.220
right, in the first, like, 15 years of, like, computers. Right?
470
00:36:26.680 --> 00:36:27.180
So
471
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:37.684
it's still very early. There's still gonna be a lot of different things being tried and failed or succeed in the market. Things will all look different. Remember how phones used to all look different?
472
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:44.300
And then eventually, they sort of found their, like, their final form that that's the form that everybody wants.
473
00:36:45.964 --> 00:36:48.464
It's not dissimilar. Right? So, like,
474
00:36:49.405 --> 00:36:59.789
and then, like, you know, most hardware makers don't have pleads as their customers. So they don't have people, like, taking pictures and asking if that grain of sand inside the device
475
00:37:00.089 --> 00:37:02.910
is a a Chinese controlled chip. Right?
476
00:37:04.335 --> 00:37:04.835
So
477
00:37:05.775 --> 00:37:07.315
we have completely different
478
00:37:08.095 --> 00:37:08.815
sort of,
479
00:37:09.295 --> 00:37:11.875
we're still gonna have a niche market of paranoid,
480
00:37:12.230 --> 00:37:13.050
awesome people
481
00:37:13.350 --> 00:37:16.250
that want, open source, that want verifiable,
482
00:37:18.390 --> 00:37:24.055
they want, like, a a bunch of sets of things that, like, major manufacturers are never gonna be able to fulfill.
483
00:37:24.435 --> 00:37:24.935
Right?
484
00:37:26.515 --> 00:37:32.400
And then and then you're gonna definitely see consolidation on the on the more sort of, like, noob consumer,
485
00:37:33.980 --> 00:37:34.480
consumer
486
00:37:34.780 --> 00:37:40.694
oriented products where people don't care about verification and all that stuff. Right? That's where sort of like Ledger is.
487
00:37:41.315 --> 00:37:42.855
I think they're gonna do very well.
488
00:37:44.194 --> 00:37:46.934
But, yeah, it's just it's just different. Right?
489
00:37:48.920 --> 00:37:52.060
Our customers are never gonna be buying from Samsung.
490
00:37:54.280 --> 00:38:00.525
Yeah. I I I I completely agree with the part where you say that it's like the Apple twos and,
491
00:38:01.465 --> 00:38:04.205
and out there's of of Bitcoin. Like,
492
00:38:04.505 --> 00:38:07.165
the the most probably the the
493
00:38:07.640 --> 00:38:15.820
the TV show that gives you the most accurate idea of how a Bitcoin company looks like right now is how can catch fire 1st season.
494
00:38:16.895 --> 00:38:17.395
Yeah.
495
00:38:17.695 --> 00:38:24.750
The the beginnings of computers built in in your garage and That's right. And the and the competitors punching each other in conferences
496
00:38:25.310 --> 00:38:29.010
and, like, it's like it's the early days of stuff being vented.
497
00:38:29.390 --> 00:38:29.890
Right?
498
00:38:30.190 --> 00:38:32.125
I mean, we don't even know, like,
499
00:38:32.445 --> 00:38:37.425
what hardware wallets are gonna look like or nodes are gonna look like, you know, in the future.
500
00:38:38.685 --> 00:38:39.905
We don't even have
501
00:38:40.369 --> 00:38:43.829
custom made chips just for the stuff yet. Right?
502
00:38:44.450 --> 00:38:51.825
It's still very, very early, and I think people need to understand that, And there's gonna be a lot of iterating as well. Right?
503
00:38:52.765 --> 00:38:58.224
You you you know, nobody in their right mind is buying harder than was, like, Bitcoin harder than was sort of, like,
504
00:38:59.230 --> 00:38:59.890
created, you
505
00:39:00.270 --> 00:39:00.770
know,
506
00:39:01.230 --> 00:39:06.290
5, 7 years ago anymore. Right? It's, like, unsafe. So, like, you just keep on iterating it.
507
00:39:07.495 --> 00:39:14.395
And then eventually, you get to a point where stuff is like, okay. You know, we've reached now the point of diminishing returns, and it's just incremental.
508
00:39:15.390 --> 00:39:19.569
Yeah. And on the on the absence of big players on the node market, I think
509
00:39:19.950 --> 00:39:24.130
it's just that this market is too small at least in a per in appearance.
510
00:39:25.695 --> 00:39:27.715
They won't enter for 10,000
511
00:39:28.015 --> 00:39:33.075
units market. They will enter when it will be 1,000,000 per year. Or That's right.
512
00:39:33.619 --> 00:39:39.000
I mean, I just wanna jump in here real quick. First of all, someone in the comments is ask asking how to spell novel, which means
513
00:39:39.539 --> 00:39:40.279
that the,
514
00:39:41.615 --> 00:39:47.234
you know, the 20,000 plus people coming into the podcast feeds probably also don't know how to spell it. It's nodl.it.
515
00:39:49.240 --> 00:39:49.980
That's nodl.it
516
00:39:50.840 --> 00:39:52.060
is the domain name.
517
00:39:52.680 --> 00:39:54.060
So go check them out.
518
00:39:54.680 --> 00:39:55.820
On the node topic,
519
00:39:58.355 --> 00:40:01.015
is there is there an issue, like,
520
00:40:01.475 --> 00:40:03.735
especially with Taproot activation. Right?
521
00:40:04.720 --> 00:40:07.940
There's all this talk about which client you run, stuff like that.
522
00:40:09.520 --> 00:40:16.105
Do do we agree that I I guess I guess Enrique called did you call them Austin crowd? Is that what you called them?
523
00:40:17.125 --> 00:40:17.625
No.
524
00:40:17.925 --> 00:40:18.425
Like
525
00:40:19.045 --> 00:40:22.710
The the there's gonna be there's gonna be a group of, like, hyper
526
00:40:23.329 --> 00:40:28.309
like, there there's there's always gonna be demand for niche. Right? Like, niche, hyper customizable,
527
00:40:29.009 --> 00:40:30.630
open source, like,
528
00:40:32.105 --> 00:40:36.605
trust minimized type of hardware, like, is like Samsung's never gonna be able to make a node
529
00:40:37.305 --> 00:40:38.684
that that fits
530
00:40:39.580 --> 00:40:45.920
probably the the majority of the dispatch demographic. Right? Like the majority of the dispatch demographic is never gonna buy
531
00:40:46.435 --> 00:40:49.895
a Samsung node that There is there's polymorphic. UI.
532
00:40:50.195 --> 00:40:58.020
To to the node thing is that so there there's people need to understand that running a node means squat, doesn't mean anything. Right?
533
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:06.015
Self validating with that node, your own transactions, that's where it's at. So there's sort of like, I see like a split
534
00:41:06.315 --> 00:41:08.495
in the node sort of need
535
00:41:09.035 --> 00:41:12.495
or you could even say market. Right? You're gonna have people
536
00:41:12.900 --> 00:41:18.120
who just need to make transactions, so they're gonna just run Bitcoin core, which is a node on their laptops,
537
00:41:18.660 --> 00:41:22.360
and what they're gonna do is they're just gonna sync every time they need to make a transaction.
538
00:41:22.725 --> 00:41:25.925
Right? Because they don't need to leave that thing running 24 hours. There's no
539
00:41:26.565 --> 00:41:27.465
it does nothing.
540
00:41:28.975 --> 00:41:29.475
Now
541
00:41:30.720 --> 00:41:36.579
what are you gonna have on the other end is, like, all the folks doing lightning, all the folks that want to do relay,
542
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:43.095
like mining. Right? So those need nodes 24 hours a day.
543
00:41:43.555 --> 00:41:45.095
And and I think that market
544
00:41:45.475 --> 00:41:47.095
is unlikely to be served
545
00:41:47.395 --> 00:41:47.895
by,
546
00:41:48.435 --> 00:41:49.255
a customized
547
00:41:49.900 --> 00:41:53.200
something from Samsung. It's it's more like a general purpose computer.
548
00:41:53.500 --> 00:41:56.400
But then there's gonna be niche shops like Nodal,
549
00:41:57.020 --> 00:41:57.520
who's
550
00:41:57.905 --> 00:42:02.405
essentially gonna service the market by providing them a turnkey solution because they still need it.
551
00:42:06.450 --> 00:42:10.610
Yeah. I mean, these, like, big miners and and people who needed it
552
00:42:11.170 --> 00:42:13.410
who really need the 247 running node,
553
00:42:15.055 --> 00:42:15.955
for their business,
554
00:42:16.335 --> 00:42:22.595
they will probably just buy a big ass Dell server or and and run that on That's on video.
555
00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:30.380
That that that's also why we we offer that not very clearly, but we we do offer that as well,
556
00:42:31.160 --> 00:42:38.045
to our customers. If you if you are, let's say, Walmart and you want a full node solution to run your back end,
557
00:42:38.825 --> 00:42:44.960
we can provide you with a with a custom cluster of servers that we'll build for you, install for you, and ship,
558
00:42:45.520 --> 00:42:52.355
or just install locally if needed. Are you guys offering the custom? Sorry. Are you guys offering the HSMs yet?
559
00:42:53.215 --> 00:42:54.835
No. No. No. Not yet.
560
00:42:56.095 --> 00:42:58.035
So that's not that's separate from navaildot
561
00:42:58.460 --> 00:42:59.920
nodal cloud. Right? That's,
562
00:43:00.619 --> 00:43:05.119
that's like you're actually sending them the rack server. Yeah. Nodal cloud is hosted in our infrastructure
563
00:43:05.475 --> 00:43:12.250
and what we used to call Nodal rack and which currently doesn't really have a commercial name is what we we ship to the client.
564
00:43:13.450 --> 00:43:14.430
So so
565
00:43:14.890 --> 00:43:15.630
would you,
566
00:43:18.330 --> 00:43:22.030
I mean, you wanna go over, like, the trust trade offs between those 3 different,
567
00:43:22.955 --> 00:43:27.455
I mean, I guess, there's 2 different models. Right? You have you have the hardware at home,
568
00:43:28.795 --> 00:43:32.330
you have the the hardware at home or your office, whether that's a Nodl
569
00:43:32.630 --> 00:43:35.770
1 or Nodl Dojo that is, like, sitting in your closet.
570
00:43:36.710 --> 00:43:37.850
And then you have,
571
00:43:38.790 --> 00:43:51.540
the, like, the Nodl rack, which is the same trust trade off, presumably, but instead, it's for, like, a larger company. And then you had the Nautil cloud. Do you wanna talk about the difference between controlling your own hardware versus using something like Nautle Cloud?
572
00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:55.780
Yeah. So but but I'm not that dissimilar.
573
00:43:56.240 --> 00:44:02.505
If you think from a from a perspective of what kind of attacks can be made against this,
574
00:44:03.125 --> 00:44:04.585
this hardware or
575
00:44:05.670 --> 00:44:06.810
or hosted solution.
576
00:44:08.550 --> 00:44:09.050
Basically,
577
00:44:10.310 --> 00:44:16.535
if you're on the hardware somewhere, the worst you risk is the physical stealing of the hardware.
578
00:44:17.635 --> 00:44:19.175
And if you're running it,
579
00:44:19.555 --> 00:44:20.195
in our
580
00:44:20.675 --> 00:44:22.375
or somebody else's infrastructure,
581
00:44:22.755 --> 00:44:24.215
the worst you risk is
582
00:44:26.099 --> 00:44:30.020
stealing of the virtual machine by the holster or by,
583
00:44:30.500 --> 00:44:31.480
or by a hacker.
584
00:44:34.035 --> 00:44:35.955
We currently run on,
585
00:44:36.995 --> 00:44:47.640
on Intel CPUs, which don't offer memory encryption per VM, but we are working on switching to the latest generation of AMD EPYC Processors,
586
00:44:48.580 --> 00:44:54.194
which will allow us to have memory encryption with a CPU generated key,
587
00:44:54.595 --> 00:44:55.335
per VM,
588
00:44:56.434 --> 00:45:01.335
and the hypervisor doesn't have access to those keys. So that means that even with
589
00:45:01.710 --> 00:45:05.970
physical access to the server, we can't dump the memory of a virtual machine.
590
00:45:07.789 --> 00:45:08.930
It costs a lot,
591
00:45:09.905 --> 00:45:13.765
but, ultimately, it's the hardware we we need to be running this service on.
592
00:45:14.305 --> 00:45:18.885
And that that will mitigate almost all the issues because we already have encrypted storage.
593
00:45:20.050 --> 00:45:20.869
The user
594
00:45:21.170 --> 00:45:25.030
is the only person who has the password for the storage encryption.
595
00:45:26.930 --> 00:45:27.430
And
596
00:45:27.885 --> 00:45:29.984
this way, we will also have the,
597
00:45:30.925 --> 00:45:31.984
the memory encryption.
598
00:45:33.325 --> 00:45:35.425
For for the models you sell,
599
00:45:36.269 --> 00:45:37.890
like, the consumer grade stuff,
600
00:45:38.269 --> 00:45:39.970
I I really see a future,
601
00:45:40.349 --> 00:45:42.369
like, very soon where
602
00:45:43.745 --> 00:45:52.725
people are gonna be using those as their cosign devices. Right? Because, you know, you can essentially roll your own Casa. Like, there there is no like,
603
00:45:53.505 --> 00:45:56.309
if you're not, like, a fit for that product, it's a good product.
604
00:45:56.609 --> 00:46:00.150
But if you're not a fit for that product, for privacy reasons or whatever,
605
00:46:00.825 --> 00:46:06.285
there is no reason anymore why you can't just have a a a high availability
606
00:46:07.145 --> 00:46:07.645
model,
607
00:46:07.990 --> 00:46:13.210
right, that you access over Tor, and you just, like, go and cosign your transaction, right, on a
608
00:46:13.590 --> 00:46:14.090
Well,
609
00:46:14.630 --> 00:46:22.325
let's just before Kito jumps in here, I mean, the privacy concerns are very real. Right? Like, you're using Casa's node. They know exactly
610
00:46:22.785 --> 00:46:28.780
how much Bitcoin you have, and they have connections to whatever personal information you've shared with them, whether that's,
611
00:46:30.200 --> 00:46:36.495
I mean, the big one is is would be, like, the addresses. They had they have your IP addresses. They have your email address. They have
612
00:46:38.175 --> 00:46:49.589
they say they purge it, but they have your billing addresses, stuff like that. Right? And they're able to see your transactions and your balances. That's a privacy concern. But, Matt, like, the the way I look at this is, like, both cousin and chain services.
613
00:46:50.474 --> 00:47:09.040
Right. See, like, if you're running a business, right, or a family office or or something that is already full k y c'd because you have to do corporate taxes Then there's no trade off. No. There there really well, there there is some counterparty consequences to that. Right? Because they can still leak that data to some bad guy who wants to come after you or whatever.
614
00:47:09.580 --> 00:47:10.080
But,
615
00:47:10.444 --> 00:47:11.105
you know,
616
00:47:11.565 --> 00:47:12.625
ultimately, like, I mean,
617
00:47:13.005 --> 00:47:16.464
they're essentially providing a good service for that. Right? It's already keyless.
618
00:47:17.005 --> 00:47:19.105
I would argue that there's there's a positive
619
00:47:19.820 --> 00:47:24.080
part of that aspect too. Right? Like, if you're running a company, it's kinda nice having a third party
620
00:47:24.460 --> 00:47:26.960
that's also witness to your books. Right?
621
00:47:27.414 --> 00:47:32.075
Especially in, like, Bitcoin land and in in the current state of Bitcoin land. It's, like, kind of nice
622
00:47:32.375 --> 00:47:38.780
if if there's ever, like, an auditing situation and investors are curious what's going on, it's nice to have a third party
623
00:47:39.080 --> 00:47:42.060
that is that is party to all of those transactions. Right?
624
00:47:43.880 --> 00:47:47.885
Kind of. Like, I mean, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. Right? Because accounting
625
00:47:48.585 --> 00:47:49.085
for,
626
00:47:50.265 --> 00:47:54.360
accounting, like, official accounting is all done in fiat basis anyways. Right?
627
00:47:54.760 --> 00:48:02.520
Right. So at the end of the day, what was the basis cost and what did you sell it for? Right? So all that matters is those, is the the,
628
00:48:04.325 --> 00:48:05.465
the realization events.
629
00:48:07.445 --> 00:48:15.590
So yeah. I mean, yes and no. It it really depends on on on the person, but but, yeah, like, I think what really helps here is that
630
00:48:16.050 --> 00:48:17.110
in in entities,
631
00:48:18.290 --> 00:48:21.350
that have more people. Right? Having a third party,
632
00:48:22.395 --> 00:48:25.055
deal with security management helps a lot.
633
00:48:27.435 --> 00:48:33.170
Right. Because because you get to offload a little bit of liability. They, like, deal Yep. They hold your hand.
634
00:48:33.470 --> 00:48:37.924
No. Also, like, they help you protect against your own employees. Right? Right. Depending
635
00:48:38.785 --> 00:48:40.484
on what kind of setup you have.
636
00:48:41.505 --> 00:48:49.890
But for the average freak, the average freak, you're at if if you use one of these 3rd party hosted multisync services,
637
00:48:51.310 --> 00:48:53.570
you're adding a new privacy
638
00:48:54.955 --> 00:48:55.455
compromise
639
00:48:56.315 --> 00:49:05.670
vulnerability. I don't you're adding you're you're adding a a It's a paid off. Yeah. You're adding a third party that that knows your transactions and your balances. Right?
640
00:49:06.050 --> 00:49:06.550
And
641
00:49:07.010 --> 00:49:07.910
and, specifically,
642
00:49:11.565 --> 00:49:16.945
you know, that that information can leak, it can get hacked, it can be compelled to be handed over.
643
00:49:18.360 --> 00:49:18.940
You know,
644
00:49:19.560 --> 00:49:23.020
this has been famously called the 61 02 Bitcoin show as well.
645
00:49:24.040 --> 00:49:27.100
61 02, executive order 6102 is when
646
00:49:27.485 --> 00:49:29.425
FDR tried to take people's gold.
647
00:49:30.125 --> 00:49:34.385
They could presumably pressure these companies into providing balances, stuff like that.
648
00:49:36.210 --> 00:49:37.250
It just it it it
649
00:49:38.690 --> 00:49:40.869
it's pretty hard to use Bitcoin privately
650
00:49:42.985 --> 00:49:51.965
as an individual already, but especially if you have to trust the 3rd party with that information. And then, obviously, you have the other concern of of you're just not using your own node.
651
00:49:52.540 --> 00:49:54.880
And if you wanna be a proper self sovereign Bitcoiner
652
00:49:55.340 --> 00:49:58.720
and you want to follow the rules that you choose when you choose,
653
00:50:00.474 --> 00:50:04.335
you're gonna wanna use your own node, and you can't use your own node with both these services.
654
00:50:05.355 --> 00:50:05.855
So
655
00:50:06.555 --> 00:50:08.734
it's it's something to keep in mind, and
656
00:50:09.049 --> 00:50:09.869
it's something
657
00:50:10.650 --> 00:50:11.309
that NVK
658
00:50:11.609 --> 00:50:16.190
has been working on in terms of trying to make a self sovereign version easier,
659
00:50:17.105 --> 00:50:22.005
with with the feature ck bunker, which is basically allows you to basically take hold card,
660
00:50:22.385 --> 00:50:24.485
connect it to something like the nodal,
661
00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:26.900
and and seamlessly
662
00:50:27.200 --> 00:50:29.780
use it as a signer of a multisig.
663
00:50:30.720 --> 00:50:32.020
Should we go into that?
664
00:50:33.145 --> 00:50:33.645
Sure.
665
00:50:34.825 --> 00:50:36.205
So it's kind of like,
666
00:50:37.545 --> 00:50:38.765
having your own
667
00:50:39.225 --> 00:50:42.045
cosign service. Right? Kinda like having your own Casa.
668
00:50:42.740 --> 00:50:43.240
So,
669
00:50:44.340 --> 00:50:47.960
you you you get your nodal. Right? Because you need a a high availability
670
00:50:48.340 --> 00:50:50.840
computer. Right? So, like, you you want a 247.
671
00:50:51.625 --> 00:50:54.685
Yeah. So you want a computer that's purposely for that,
672
00:50:55.705 --> 00:50:57.145
so and and it's running,
673
00:50:57.465 --> 00:50:59.005
ideally a node. Right?
674
00:51:00.490 --> 00:51:03.470
You don't need to run a node on it, but doesn't hurt.
675
00:51:04.490 --> 00:51:10.655
So anyways, so you have, a c k bunker running on it. Actually, no. You don't need it at all because the
676
00:51:11.195 --> 00:51:11.695
the
677
00:51:12.474 --> 00:51:23.650
the transaction is created by you on your desktop wallet. But, anyways, whatever. So let's say you have Nodo because they they install the the package from from start, so it's turnkey. Turn it on.
678
00:51:24.394 --> 00:51:25.134
You just
679
00:51:25.434 --> 00:51:25.934
add,
680
00:51:26.394 --> 00:51:29.535
a cold card to it via USB, and you put it somewhere.
681
00:51:30.234 --> 00:51:37.480
You set some policies or whatever you want. And then what happens is you have essentially a multisig between your your cold card in your hand
682
00:51:38.099 --> 00:51:40.920
and and a second or third cold card
683
00:51:41.235 --> 00:51:45.735
that is connected to the node that was signed based on some policy
684
00:51:46.035 --> 00:51:47.015
like maximum,
685
00:51:47.795 --> 00:51:49.575
1 per week or whatever,
686
00:51:51.250 --> 00:51:51.730
and,
687
00:51:52.089 --> 00:51:57.510
and that's really cool, right, because you have essentially a cosign service that is yours that you control,
688
00:51:58.955 --> 00:52:01.375
that nobody has visibility to the coins,
689
00:52:01.995 --> 00:52:06.420
and it's like fairly safe and secure because there's a cold card running on that.
690
00:52:09.460 --> 00:52:19.405
Made a video, a couple of videos I think already on it. So if people wanna understand more about it, I highly recommend going there. Kito, what are your thoughts on this? When are you gonna integrate CK bunker
691
00:52:20.105 --> 00:52:23.565
Yeah. You directly into Nava. One of my many late projects.
692
00:52:24.970 --> 00:52:26.349
Hopefully, very soon,
693
00:52:26.730 --> 00:52:31.630
I have everything I need to do that now. So, yeah, it should should happen in the coming weeks.
694
00:52:32.255 --> 00:52:35.555
I just want to make it in a meaningful way, meaning, like,
695
00:52:36.015 --> 00:52:37.235
some level of configurations
696
00:52:37.535 --> 00:52:38.755
through the another UI.
697
00:52:39.930 --> 00:52:42.430
I don't know yet what's possible, what's not.
698
00:52:44.570 --> 00:52:48.510
And, also, I have a prototype of a hosted version of
699
00:52:49.905 --> 00:52:51.925
c k bunker farm. So
700
00:52:52.305 --> 00:52:57.845
let's assume you don't want to have it at home and prefer to have it in a secure data center somewhere.
701
00:52:59.240 --> 00:53:06.380
You could send us your cold card with the policies set on it, and we would just put it in a chassis with a
702
00:53:06.835 --> 00:53:07.335
small
703
00:53:07.955 --> 00:53:14.055
dedicated, server that will be connected to it, and and you will be able to remotely access to double top.
704
00:53:16.110 --> 00:53:17.090
Pretty cool.
705
00:53:18.190 --> 00:53:20.530
Yeah. Let's make that happen. That sounds fucking dope.
706
00:53:21.230 --> 00:53:21.730
Yeah.
707
00:53:22.110 --> 00:53:24.735
It's like it it really is the next, like,
708
00:53:25.215 --> 00:53:29.955
that is the direction. Right? Like, it's gonna take some time to get all this thing done easier,
709
00:53:31.225 --> 00:53:31.725
but
710
00:53:32.839 --> 00:53:35.740
I I cannot see a world where we don't go in that direction.
711
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:38.059
I really like that because
712
00:53:39.079 --> 00:53:42.895
I like this idea of of of user friendly,
713
00:53:45.195 --> 00:53:49.855
UX config like, I I feel like user friendly UX, like, kind of starts with the hardware.
714
00:53:50.220 --> 00:53:52.000
And if we have different,
715
00:53:53.900 --> 00:53:55.520
we can minimize trust
716
00:53:56.380 --> 00:53:56.880
by
717
00:53:57.964 --> 00:54:05.425
having multiple hardware providers interact with each other so that you're not relying on any individual hardware provider,
718
00:54:06.125 --> 00:54:07.265
in a way that
719
00:54:07.900 --> 00:54:09.040
that still prioritizes
720
00:54:09.340 --> 00:54:12.640
UX just like he just like he just said. I mean, I
721
00:54:13.420 --> 00:54:18.464
I go back to thinking, you know, my service final message dot I o. I kept coming to the issue
722
00:54:19.005 --> 00:54:19.984
that I was wondering,
723
00:54:21.405 --> 00:54:31.440
I I kept coming to the issue where it was, like, you know, it's a dead man switch, and the the biggest concern is it's encrypted, so I can't see what it is. But the biggest concern is, do I actually send the message?
724
00:54:31.980 --> 00:54:53.815
When the time comes, do I send the message? And I could go down a 1000000 different rabbit holes about trying to solve that issue, but it's solved by just having 2 redundant forms of doing that. And then you just you you don't have to trust either one. You just have to trust that one of the 2, like, actually sends it out. And this is kind of a similar situation, right, where you have these 2 pieces of user friendly hardware, you combine them together,
725
00:54:55.315 --> 00:54:58.454
and and you you basically need both of them to collude
726
00:54:58.820 --> 00:55:00.600
to to lose funds. Right?
727
00:55:02.100 --> 00:55:07.240
Yeah. I mean, you know, you start getting the territory of, like, unless there's bugs,
728
00:55:07.565 --> 00:55:09.345
like, good luck to the bad guy.
729
00:55:10.045 --> 00:55:12.785
I mean, seriously. Right? Right. It becomes
730
00:55:13.805 --> 00:55:18.150
it's not a matter of becoming impossible because nothing is impossible. It's a matter of becoming impractical.
731
00:55:18.450 --> 00:55:19.910
Right? Or or the cost
732
00:55:20.290 --> 00:55:26.069
of either actual cost or or time cost for the attacker becomes completely impractical.
733
00:55:26.865 --> 00:55:36.380
And I think you make it difficult enough that they're gonna they're gonna go send someone a phishing text instead. Right? They're not they're gonna go for the lowest hanging fruit. They're not gonna go for
734
00:55:36.839 --> 00:55:47.265
I mean, you you shouldn't rely on that, but that's, like, the reality of the situation. Right? Yeah. Well, unless it's a highly targeted attack and the guys will just make whatever they can to get to you
735
00:55:47.805 --> 00:55:51.710
particularly. But, yeah, usually, the attackers are pretty dumb, but they will just
736
00:55:52.190 --> 00:56:00.210
be scanning everything and finding the easiest target. I mean, it gets to a point, right, where they're gonna either move on to the next person,
737
00:56:01.325 --> 00:56:03.105
to the next victim, right,
738
00:56:06.765 --> 00:56:13.700
or or or they're gonna have to, like or or you're so so much wealth, so much wealth,
739
00:56:14.160 --> 00:56:21.825
then then it's a different story. Then maybe the cost of attack just becomes so great that they might just, like, you know, they probably just knock on your door and kidnap you. Right?
740
00:56:22.325 --> 00:56:22.825
Like,
741
00:56:23.325 --> 00:56:26.910
no. Seriously. It's like it gets to that point, but then even if they kidnap you,
742
00:56:27.309 --> 00:56:28.609
you know, you don't have,
743
00:56:29.950 --> 00:56:30.849
signing capabilities.
744
00:56:31.549 --> 00:56:32.609
Right. So,
745
00:56:32.910 --> 00:56:33.410
you
746
00:56:33.710 --> 00:56:38.005
know, that's sort of, like, the goal that we have with cold card in general. It's like, how can we get to a point,
747
00:56:39.825 --> 00:56:43.845
in some setups already there where it's like, there's nothing I can do.
748
00:56:44.470 --> 00:56:48.010
This is what I love about both of you guys. This is why this is why I'm a
749
00:56:48.549 --> 00:56:52.490
a very happy customer of of both Nodl and, CoinKite
750
00:56:52.885 --> 00:56:58.025
is because I feel like you guys are both paranoid Bitcoiners along with me. So I I can count on the fact
751
00:56:58.485 --> 00:57:02.265
that I have your paranoia additive on top of my paranoia.
752
00:57:02.790 --> 00:57:05.050
You're actually thinking about these kind of issues.
753
00:57:07.750 --> 00:57:08.710
Yeah. It it's,
754
00:57:09.965 --> 00:57:14.145
oh, that's actually a good, a good segue into a feature we're launching.
755
00:57:14.605 --> 00:57:16.685
Yeah. Hit us. Okay. So,
756
00:57:17.609 --> 00:57:18.670
I'm calling it
757
00:57:19.769 --> 00:57:20.269
seedxor.
758
00:57:22.650 --> 00:57:24.029
It's gonna be seedxor.com.
759
00:57:26.194 --> 00:57:28.375
If you go now there, there's just a picture
760
00:57:28.915 --> 00:57:31.655
and, something saying coming soon for info.
761
00:57:32.435 --> 00:57:36.339
I was like, this was not meant to be announced or preannounced or any of that shit.
762
00:57:36.720 --> 00:57:38.339
It's gonna come Welcome to dispatch.
763
00:57:38.640 --> 00:57:40.900
Yeah. It's gonna probably come on the next firmware version.
764
00:57:41.440 --> 00:57:45.984
We were hoping to do it this week, but, you know, being too swamped, so we'll see.
765
00:57:46.525 --> 00:57:48.145
So so the idea here is
766
00:57:48.924 --> 00:57:49.424
essentially,
767
00:57:52.250 --> 00:57:56.750
what's the problem? The problem is you have a seed backup. What the fuck do you do that seed?
768
00:57:57.905 --> 00:58:00.245
Right? Like, where do you put it? Right?
769
00:58:00.545 --> 00:58:02.245
Anyone that gets hold of that,
770
00:58:03.025 --> 00:58:05.205
has access to the to the master secret.
771
00:58:05.530 --> 00:58:06.030
Right?
772
00:58:06.490 --> 00:58:08.910
Aside from passphrase and stuff, it's still a problem.
773
00:58:09.530 --> 00:58:16.755
So, you know, you can't put in safe deposit boxes because safe deposit boxes can be a a commandeer. Safe. Right?
774
00:58:18.255 --> 00:58:23.234
You know, if you're clearing name. Yeah. But but, you know, but if you still have some good
775
00:58:25.300 --> 00:58:25.800
custody,
776
00:58:26.420 --> 00:58:30.440
chain of custody. Right? They're not bad. It's just that the trade offs exist.
777
00:58:31.300 --> 00:58:33.320
You know, you don't wanna bury a seed
778
00:58:33.645 --> 00:58:36.945
depending on where because if he gets found, it's a problem.
779
00:58:38.605 --> 00:58:43.025
So so it gets tricky. Right? What do you do with that clear tax secret?
780
00:58:44.349 --> 00:58:44.589
So,
781
00:58:45.470 --> 00:58:56.765
you know, traditionally, what do we do as computer people? Well, we offer you the encrypted micro SD, so you can put that you know, microSD, and then you put it in safety deposit box or something. Right?
782
00:58:57.225 --> 00:58:58.525
The problem with that is
783
00:58:58.985 --> 00:59:00.685
that is sort of like computer,
784
00:59:01.720 --> 00:59:04.540
it's a computer problem. Right? So you need,
785
00:59:05.320 --> 00:59:08.620
you need a computer to encrypt that or decrypt that or a cold card.
786
00:59:09.240 --> 00:59:09.740
And
787
00:59:10.085 --> 00:59:21.280
and if you put a micro encrypted a micro SD in a safe deposit box, you could still have a an order to produce by a judge that essentially says if you don't decrypt that thing, you go to jail. Well, not in America,
788
00:59:21.740 --> 00:59:27.195
but in the UK, you definitely can. Yeah. But it it depends on the country. It depends on the considerations, but whatever.
789
00:59:28.395 --> 00:59:35.135
Now what are we doing then? Let's create more plausible, deniable solutions. Right? That's our motto now.
790
00:59:36.395 --> 00:59:36.895
So
791
00:59:37.640 --> 00:59:39.260
what I wanted to do was,
792
00:59:39.560 --> 00:59:40.460
can I create
793
00:59:40.840 --> 00:59:41.740
an encrypted,
794
00:59:43.640 --> 00:59:46.140
metal plate that is human
795
00:59:46.835 --> 00:59:47.335
readable,
796
00:59:47.955 --> 00:59:50.215
right, and is plausible, deniable?
797
00:59:51.475 --> 00:59:52.775
So what do we do?
798
00:59:53.450 --> 00:59:57.790
We essentially get you to generate 2 sets of 24 words,
799
00:59:58.090 --> 01:00:03.555
okay, just like a seed, it's BIP39 based, and then we XOR them together,
800
01:00:04.415 --> 01:00:09.955
and we create a new seed for you that is also 24 words, exactly BIP 39 compliant.
801
01:00:10.310 --> 01:00:12.090
So now you essentially have 3 plates
802
01:00:13.430 --> 01:00:16.890
or just 2 plates. We have a single sig with 3 plates.
803
01:00:17.805 --> 01:00:18.305
Exactly.
804
01:00:19.484 --> 01:00:21.425
So And all 3 plates are
805
01:00:22.045 --> 01:00:27.560
Ex they look are 39 compliant. You can even load funds on them to be fully plausible.
806
01:00:28.100 --> 01:00:28.840
I love
807
01:00:29.220 --> 01:00:32.280
it. So so you can roll, you can, you can load
808
01:00:32.820 --> 01:00:34.200
the, you can like
809
01:00:34.565 --> 01:00:43.785
say you have you make a a 2 plates. You're gonna be able to make up to, like, 10 plates or whatever, but, like, let's say you're normal and you do just 2. Right? So you do 2 plates,
810
01:00:44.859 --> 01:00:46.400
each of these plates have,
811
01:00:46.700 --> 01:00:52.640
what we'll call part of the secret. Right? So it's 2 parts, but each of them look like a full,
812
01:00:53.685 --> 01:00:54.585
BIP 3924,
813
01:00:57.205 --> 01:00:57.445
pass
814
01:00:58.005 --> 01:00:58.505
24,
815
01:00:59.125 --> 01:01:00.265
word seed
816
01:01:00.820 --> 01:01:03.560
with checksum, everything. It's it's a literal
817
01:01:04.100 --> 01:01:06.600
BIP 39 proper seed. Right?
818
01:01:07.300 --> 01:01:12.605
And then you can put put 1 in one safe deposit box. You put 1 in another safe deposit box in a different country.
819
01:01:13.305 --> 01:01:16.605
Right? And then and then the cold card
820
01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:18.820
lets you input both,
821
01:01:19.520 --> 01:01:20.180
to calculate
822
01:01:20.480 --> 01:01:21.619
the actual XOR,
823
01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:22.900
XOR seed.
824
01:01:23.200 --> 01:01:23.700
Right?
825
01:01:24.400 --> 01:01:26.660
Also, if you're this is the key,
826
01:01:27.255 --> 01:01:28.875
like awesome thing about this.
827
01:01:29.415 --> 01:01:33.195
Everybody already has a fucking seed. Right? And you don't wanna move your funds.
828
01:01:33.734 --> 01:01:37.540
So what do you do? Well, with the new firmware, you go into
829
01:01:38.720 --> 01:01:40.660
the specific menu and you're gonna say
830
01:01:41.040 --> 01:01:42.180
split my seed.
831
01:01:42.694 --> 01:01:46.234
So what it's gonna do, it's gonna give you 2 sets of 24 words
832
01:01:47.174 --> 01:01:50.234
to create the 2 plates that are scrambled essentially
833
01:01:51.029 --> 01:01:52.890
so that you can just go and back up that.
834
01:01:53.190 --> 01:02:02.655
So we don't have to move our funds. We can No. You don't have If you already have a single sig. Exactly. But if you lose one plate, you lose everything. Right? 61 and 2 is asking. Correct. Correct.
835
01:02:02.955 --> 01:02:04.655
It's not it's not shares.
836
01:02:05.329 --> 01:02:06.369
Right. It's,
837
01:02:06.930 --> 01:02:10.069
but but you can still have a normal
838
01:02:11.170 --> 01:02:14.790
seed plate with your actual full seed on it too if you want.
839
01:02:15.235 --> 01:02:21.495
Right? And you can bury that under a lake where it's essentially impossible to get unless you absolutely need to. Right?
840
01:02:22.010 --> 01:02:30.829
But that's what we all do. Right? We're all bearing our seed plates under lakes. Yeah. I I had this discussion with a fellow Bitcoin not long ago. Like, okay. I have my
841
01:02:31.605 --> 01:02:33.944
many cold cards with the paper
842
01:02:34.565 --> 01:02:35.545
backup seeds.
843
01:02:36.085 --> 01:02:44.590
What the fuck do I do with these papers now? That's exactly the problem that everybody had. So we wanted to solve that problem, like, with plausible deniability.
844
01:02:44.890 --> 01:02:56.315
I like that. It gives you a lot of the advantages of multisig, but actually, there's also pause and, like, increased positives. Right? Because multisig, you don't have that plausible deniability element. Like, if I can load up those individual seeds,
845
01:02:56.890 --> 01:03:08.005
then if if you find a plate, you're just gonna think, like, oh, like, I found Matt's coin. Right? And and you'll just be done with it. You won't even think it's a multisig. I mean, unless you listen to Siddle dispatch episode 19,
846
01:03:08.385 --> 01:03:10.725
you won't even think that that's a possibility.
847
01:03:11.185 --> 01:03:19.480
Yeah. And listen. You can see just do a normal speed. So you could use this for multi sig. You can use this for with pass phrases. You can do whatever you want.
848
01:03:20.580 --> 01:03:26.855
Oh, you see? You can have a multi sig you can have a multi sig in combination with this, and they could be using the same seeds.
849
01:03:27.155 --> 01:03:27.895
That's right.
850
01:03:28.595 --> 01:03:30.775
This is fun, dude. I like this. This is good.
851
01:03:31.090 --> 01:03:39.190
For the record, I tried to get, NVK to tease this for me, and he wouldn't tease it for me ahead of time. So I'm learning about this live on air for all you guys.
852
01:03:39.765 --> 01:03:40.265
Yeah.
853
01:03:41.125 --> 01:03:48.184
So so the the the the the main idea now that we're really focused on with this plausible deniable stuff
854
01:03:48.619 --> 01:03:49.920
is we wanna increase
855
01:03:50.540 --> 01:03:51.359
the attack,
856
01:03:52.540 --> 01:03:57.839
surface complexity for the attackers. Right? We wanna make sure that there's just so an absolute,
857
01:03:58.685 --> 01:03:59.825
like, tsunami
858
01:04:00.365 --> 01:04:01.185
of options
859
01:04:01.645 --> 01:04:02.625
for users
860
01:04:02.925 --> 01:04:03.585
to use.
861
01:04:04.125 --> 01:04:05.185
So an attacker
862
01:04:05.485 --> 01:04:15.790
that is a little bit more sophisticated that can get to you to begin with. Right? He's gonna be aware that if you have a cold car, there is, like, a 100 different permutations
863
01:04:16.250 --> 01:04:18.234
or, like, 300 permutations
864
01:04:18.775 --> 01:04:21.915
of of of ways in which this person could be doing their
865
01:04:22.455 --> 01:04:24.610
their Bitcoin y. Right? So
866
01:04:25.070 --> 01:04:26.770
it's it's essentially overwhelming
867
01:04:27.070 --> 01:04:28.530
one to know. Oh,
868
01:04:29.070 --> 01:04:40.785
come on. I know you have a passphrase, put the passphrase. Right? So so, like, that's not the answer for everything. Right? You you need well, he might have a pass phrase plus this, plus that, plus this, plus that. Right?
869
01:04:41.485 --> 01:04:42.225
And Right.
870
01:04:42.615 --> 01:04:47.280
And and and then Make it as confusing as pop make make make it as the
871
01:04:47.920 --> 01:04:56.565
don't make the assumptions easy. Right? Exactly. And and, also, you you'd have, like, rubber funds, right, in in some of these steps as well.
872
01:04:57.025 --> 01:05:14.755
So so that you can give something away in case the situation requires to, but in any way, you're exposed to that. And and in the beginning, you mentioned 3 plates. Is there is there there, like, different options where you can choose if it's if it's 2 or 3 or Or 4 or 10. Can you? Yeah.
873
01:05:15.695 --> 01:05:16.515
That's dope.
874
01:05:16.815 --> 01:05:20.559
Okay. I'm a fan. I'm a fan, bro. This is a cool feature. I like this feature.
875
01:05:21.339 --> 01:05:26.319
And, like and so when you add this, right, in combination with that, the new,
876
01:05:27.019 --> 01:05:28.125
countdown to brick,
877
01:05:29.485 --> 01:05:31.185
which is my absolute favor.
878
01:05:31.485 --> 01:05:37.985
Well, it's already bricked. You brick it ahead of time, but the countdown continues to pretend they still have a chance at breaking it.
879
01:05:38.310 --> 01:05:39.450
Exactly. Right?
880
01:05:39.750 --> 01:05:43.450
So so the bad guy so you're telling the bad guy that, hey.
881
01:05:43.830 --> 01:05:54.585
Okay. Fine. I give up. Right? I you you put the pin, but you put a special pin, and that special pin is gonna show the bad guy that it's gonna take 24 hours for you to be able to sign it, right?
882
01:05:55.890 --> 01:05:59.910
And then in the background of that, we are essentially erasing your seed, and
883
01:06:01.250 --> 01:06:04.309
and if he gets to the end of the countdown, it just shows brick.
884
01:06:05.305 --> 01:06:07.244
Right, shows air, so
885
01:06:07.785 --> 01:06:09.244
what's cool about that is,
886
01:06:09.625 --> 01:06:11.165
unlike the normal countdown,
887
01:06:12.070 --> 01:06:15.370
the attacker could try to take the device to a lab afterwards,
888
01:06:15.750 --> 01:06:22.005
and, you know, spend a quarter $1,000,000 trying to get the money out, Right? On this one, if he takes it, the seed was erased.
889
01:06:24.065 --> 01:06:26.725
So you can say, okay. You know what? Take it with you
890
01:06:27.200 --> 01:06:32.660
24 hours. You know, you put it in a battery pack. You give it to the guy. 24 hours, they're gonna be able to sign it. Right?
891
01:06:34.160 --> 01:06:35.060
It's a brick.
892
01:06:35.965 --> 01:06:37.105
I fucking love it.
893
01:06:39.965 --> 01:06:49.170
Yes. Speak speaking about complicating things, I I think something is underused as well, like using totally random custom derivation pass.
894
01:06:50.430 --> 01:06:53.250
Well, that's that's a little bit you know, I mean,
895
01:06:53.755 --> 01:06:55.694
as an As long as you have proper backup.
896
01:06:56.315 --> 01:07:01.055
Yeah. As someone who's been, like, working on education, like, you know, maybe for pros, but I
897
01:07:02.310 --> 01:07:07.770
can't put that in a fucking guide. Well, it's a use a random derivation word. 26 word, basically.
898
01:07:08.724 --> 01:07:14.185
Right. It's the 26 word. The 25th word is the passphrase. The 26th word is your random ass derivation path.
899
01:07:14.565 --> 01:07:15.545
So I think
900
01:07:15.845 --> 01:07:16.825
at some point,
901
01:07:18.120 --> 01:07:18.440
say,
902
01:07:19.240 --> 01:07:20.780
something like a BIP 39v2
903
01:07:21.240 --> 01:07:23.500
is gonna come at some point because
904
01:07:24.175 --> 01:07:26.515
the problem with BIP 39 is that BIP 39,
905
01:07:27.135 --> 01:07:34.609
it's it's essentially, like, too simplistic. Right? It shouldn't have the derivation path built in. Right? Well, that's what descriptors does.
906
01:07:35.309 --> 01:07:44.635
Right. Right? So descriptors solve that problem. The problem is descriptors are Bitcoin only. Right? We support descriptors, but the other wallets don't because they're all shitcoin companies. Right?
907
01:07:45.415 --> 01:07:48.555
But once Can you describe for the freaks derivation paths,
908
01:07:49.090 --> 01:08:01.025
like, an easy way? Yeah. So a derivation path is like a 3. Right? Imagine your seed is the root. Right? Nobody can see it. It's under the soil. Right? And then from that, you create a tree,
909
01:08:01.485 --> 01:08:05.905
and and then you have these branches. In each of these branches, you're gonna have different accounts,
910
01:08:07.780 --> 01:08:16.775
but it's all part of the same tree that is part of the same root. But there's, like, infinite branches. Infinite branches. Just like the 3. So, like, if if if you use a nonstandard one It's
911
01:08:18.455 --> 01:08:20.475
problem. And compute doesn't improve,
912
01:08:20.855 --> 01:08:27.500
like, ridiculous amounts, like, you're never gonna be able to figure out which branch it was. No. No. You can you can be in an infinite, like,
913
01:08:28.039 --> 01:08:28.940
hole. Yeah.
914
01:08:31.320 --> 01:08:41.485
Which people have lost funds that way. I mean, it it becomes so big that is almost the same problem as trying to calculate the private key in the to begin with. Right. Because it's you get infinite numbers. Infinite.
915
01:08:45.160 --> 01:08:52.700
This is this is awesome. I'm very excited about your seed. So so to to the to the freaks the freaks that are watching the video,
916
01:08:53.095 --> 01:09:03.670
and I'll I'll remind the I'll remind the freaks listening right now. If you're listening to this audio, you wanna go see what's going on live chat because live chat's fun. You know, you wanna see after the fact. You just go to bitcoin tv.com,
917
01:09:04.850 --> 01:09:09.190
and you can you can see this little dispatch channel. All of the all of our past
918
01:09:09.534 --> 01:09:11.474
shows are on there, including this one.
919
01:09:11.855 --> 01:09:17.554
And are you still able to show, like, yeah. Are you are you still able to show screen captured? Like, sorry, screen Yeah.
920
01:09:18.028 --> 01:09:24.836
Stuff in the browser? I sent you the link. Yeah. So I I showed the link earlier, but,
921
01:09:25.355 --> 01:09:31.295
I mean, what, the website doesn't really show much right now. Right? No. But, so just just to the to the freaks that are listening,
922
01:09:31.835 --> 01:09:34.735
it's it's seed, s e e d,
923
01:09:35.210 --> 01:09:35.710
xor.com.
924
01:09:37.370 --> 01:09:39.230
So it's it's literally the letter x,
925
01:09:40.010 --> 01:09:40.510
seedxor.com.
926
01:09:42.250 --> 01:09:42.750
SeedXor.
927
01:09:43.445 --> 01:09:45.305
Yeah. Xor is a mathematical
928
01:09:45.685 --> 01:09:48.425
calculation. Right. Like, it's like a logic gate.
929
01:09:50.860 --> 01:09:52.300
Yeah. That's fucking awesome.
930
01:09:52.699 --> 01:09:53.199
So
931
01:09:54.460 --> 01:09:55.679
all that is fantastic.
932
01:09:56.460 --> 01:10:00.045
You heard it here first on dispatch. This is why we dispatch freaks. 60102.
933
01:10:00.505 --> 01:10:04.764
It's yes. It is applied to sell more seat plates. I don't know. I mean, your seat plates are very affordable.
934
01:10:06.344 --> 01:10:07.635
Would you do you want to
935
01:10:08.390 --> 01:10:16.970
I just want the Phrees to know, like, this whole idea of punching it with the punch is, like, a very it's a very accessible thing. Like, don't be overwhelmed by punching steel.
936
01:10:17.625 --> 01:10:21.485
Oh, it's ridiculously easy. You just pre mark with a sharpie. It's quite fun.
937
01:10:22.425 --> 01:10:27.990
Yeah. You can just use a nail if and a hammer. But make sure you, like, double check it after the fact because it's sharp.
938
01:10:28.530 --> 01:10:29.670
Sharpie. Sharpie first.
939
01:10:30.130 --> 01:10:33.590
Sharpie first? I didn't do Sharpie first. Sharpie first.
940
01:10:34.130 --> 01:10:34.630
100%.
941
01:10:35.875 --> 01:10:42.695
Okay. Note note to note to everybody. Sharpie first. Alright. Or yeah. Just use a Sharpie. Sharpie is fucking dope.
942
01:10:44.390 --> 01:10:45.610
Keep it simple. Bitcoin
943
01:10:45.910 --> 01:10:59.945
is smelling a guide. He's the fucking boss. I mean, he might be a his guides are too good. He might be a spook because the guides are just that good. But if if if you're willing to take that risk, go to keep it simple bitcoin.com. He's got a lot of good guides over there.
944
01:11:01.500 --> 01:11:07.760
MVK, I want to not MVK. I love both of you. I'm sorry. I keep mixing you guys up. Keydominer.
945
01:11:10.324 --> 01:11:11.145
Your competitors
946
01:11:11.605 --> 01:11:12.344
your competitors
947
01:11:13.364 --> 01:11:15.224
have every app under the sun.
948
01:11:15.844 --> 01:11:16.905
How do you decide
949
01:11:17.770 --> 01:11:25.150
what is supported on Nodl and what isn't supported on Nodl, and why are we waiting so long for what I want to be supported on Nodl?
950
01:11:28.395 --> 01:11:28.895
How
951
01:11:29.275 --> 01:11:31.215
we decide is basically,
952
01:11:32.955 --> 01:11:36.990
many factors. First one is is it really useful? Like,
953
01:11:37.850 --> 01:11:38.590
you know,
954
01:11:38.970 --> 01:11:44.350
a lot of times, user just come to you and say, I would like this feature. And
955
01:11:45.235 --> 01:11:50.054
after you spend a considerable amount of time implementing it, you realize that,
956
01:11:50.835 --> 01:11:58.440
1, it doesn't exactly do what the user fault it was doing, or 2, actually, nobody is using it.
957
01:12:00.180 --> 01:12:03.720
So that that's that's one factor. We're trying, like, to really
958
01:12:04.025 --> 01:12:07.885
test things, use them ourselves, see if it's relevant, and,
959
01:12:08.825 --> 01:12:09.645
and then
960
01:12:10.265 --> 01:12:12.970
implement it and deploy it to to everyone.
961
01:12:14.150 --> 01:12:16.410
Just a very recent example.
962
01:12:17.670 --> 01:12:19.290
I wanted to add loop,
963
01:12:19.830 --> 01:12:20.650
to the models.
964
01:12:23.065 --> 01:12:24.525
And, actually, I realized
965
01:12:24.825 --> 01:12:28.205
that lightning terminal is a much better option because
966
01:12:28.905 --> 01:12:29.805
the unofficial
967
01:12:31.670 --> 01:12:34.570
take from Lightning Labs is that the stand alone
968
01:12:35.110 --> 01:12:38.250
applications like Loop, Pool, and and all those
969
01:12:38.870 --> 01:12:40.090
will be, like,
970
01:12:40.465 --> 01:12:46.965
best effort supported. But if you really want the full experience, you should rather use Lightning terminal.
971
01:12:49.080 --> 01:12:54.060
So I think Loop is the first app that survived only one version on another when
972
01:12:54.360 --> 01:12:56.065
it would be removed in the next one.
973
01:12:58.385 --> 01:13:04.660
So, yeah, we we try to avoid this kind of situations. And and another reason an app can be,
974
01:13:05.280 --> 01:13:10.020
not implemented is if it's making a heavy or any, actually, use
975
01:13:10.400 --> 01:13:12.500
of a third party external service.
976
01:13:14.205 --> 01:13:16.945
Luke, again, is a good example, and we are,
977
01:13:18.525 --> 01:13:19.425
we are actually,
978
01:13:20.284 --> 01:13:22.145
forcing users to run it over.
979
01:13:22.780 --> 01:13:25.600
And so the policy now is that any application,
980
01:13:27.740 --> 01:13:33.465
that needs to make any external calls to any external service will be, going through to our only.
981
01:13:36.725 --> 01:13:39.545
Yeah. And and, also, there is a very stupid reason,
982
01:13:39.860 --> 01:13:43.480
which is that there is only one of me, and I have many things to do.
983
01:13:44.500 --> 01:13:46.500
I mean, I I like to hit you with,
984
01:13:47.715 --> 01:13:50.855
I hit you with the request all the time, and then I just forget about them.
985
01:13:51.235 --> 01:13:52.614
The But you're like like,
986
01:13:53.474 --> 01:13:57.950
in the in the closest future, you will get lightning terminal. You will get,
987
01:13:58.570 --> 01:14:01.390
an upgrade of all the existing services.
988
01:14:02.775 --> 01:14:08.155
Actually, for once, normal cloud got the upgrades first. For example, the latest BTC RPC Explorer.
989
01:14:10.295 --> 01:14:13.140
I like that now. Dojo usually gets everything first.
990
01:14:13.760 --> 01:14:15.780
Yeah. That that used to be true
991
01:14:16.400 --> 01:14:27.555
until the last version because we we needed it for another cloud for some for some customers. So we we prioritize that. I'm pretty sure I got the first Nautle dojo that's ever existed.
992
01:14:30.360 --> 01:14:37.525
Yeah. I think so. Like, the first real one. Yeah. I mean, like, mine has the special spyware in it that's just designed specifically for me.
993
01:14:38.965 --> 01:14:39.465
The
994
01:14:40.965 --> 01:14:42.824
so so what I I so
995
01:14:43.125 --> 01:14:44.905
so what I wanted to talk about,
996
01:14:45.685 --> 01:14:46.405
was you
997
01:14:47.120 --> 01:14:49.620
so you had an issue with Lightning
998
01:14:50.080 --> 01:14:50.580
Loop,
999
01:14:51.120 --> 01:14:58.835
right, where you lost funds on Lightning Loop? Like, I feel like No. I thought I thought I did, but they ended up coming back. They came back?
1000
01:14:59.135 --> 01:14:59.635
Yeah.
1001
01:15:00.655 --> 01:15:04.739
Basically, what happened is so it's a it's a stupid mistake from my side.
1002
01:15:06.159 --> 01:15:10.810
We are running a reverse proxy in front of the LND's API on the model,
1003
01:15:12.685 --> 01:15:16.065
for external services, like when you use Zap, for example.
1004
01:15:17.965 --> 01:15:20.305
And my mistake was that
1005
01:15:20.790 --> 01:15:26.170
I was connecting loop locally through that reverse proxy instead of going straight to LNG.
1006
01:15:26.869 --> 01:15:29.775
And that was making loop crash all the time
1007
01:15:30.155 --> 01:15:31.615
and not finishing transactions.
1008
01:15:32.555 --> 01:15:34.735
So is your fault? That that's solved now.
1009
01:15:36.235 --> 01:15:36.895
But, yeah,
1010
01:15:38.350 --> 01:15:42.610
I I know of one other user that got an issue with Luke not,
1011
01:15:43.550 --> 01:15:50.925
giving the funds back, but I think it was solved with, with the proper help from from Lightning Labs. That's good. I mean,
1012
01:15:52.445 --> 01:15:53.105
you know,
1013
01:15:53.565 --> 01:15:58.370
is the friend that that we when we're angry at lightning together, we we,
1014
01:15:58.850 --> 01:16:01.750
we reach out to each other. In private, we
1015
01:16:02.325 --> 01:16:06.025
we we we express our frustrations at the current state of things,
1016
01:16:06.645 --> 01:16:10.005
while loving it, at the same time using it all the fucking time. But,
1017
01:16:10.960 --> 01:16:19.619
you know, sometimes you just can't talk about these things as publicly, and I was excited to have him on because that's exactly what we're gonna fucking do.
1018
01:16:21.745 --> 01:16:22.965
Before we get there,
1019
01:16:24.065 --> 01:16:26.805
I wanna talk about your hate for Raspberry Pis.
1020
01:16:27.265 --> 01:16:29.390
So, you know Raspberry Pis.
1021
01:16:30.270 --> 01:16:33.250
There we go. So we got NVK on record also.
1022
01:16:34.590 --> 01:16:36.770
We also have we have NVK on record,
1023
01:16:38.025 --> 01:16:41.245
also telling Raspberry Pi users to fuck themselves,
1024
01:16:41.945 --> 01:16:44.605
or I guess the device specifically to fuck themselves.
1025
01:16:45.440 --> 01:16:50.900
Both. We have a shit ton of freaks here right now that are using raspi nodes, whether that's raspiBlitz
1026
01:16:51.679 --> 01:16:52.500
or Umbral
1027
01:16:54.505 --> 01:16:55.405
or myNode
1028
01:16:56.185 --> 01:16:56.925
or RoninDojo
1029
01:16:58.025 --> 01:17:02.605
or whatever package that I just forgot and I'm gonna get shit about later.
1030
01:17:03.210 --> 01:17:04.510
They're all running raspies.
1031
01:17:05.450 --> 01:17:09.390
Why shouldn't people run raspies? Why doesn't Nodal use raspies?
1032
01:17:10.489 --> 01:17:11.950
Why is the Nodal Dojo
1033
01:17:12.655 --> 01:17:14.114
as expensive as it is?
1034
01:17:14.815 --> 01:17:19.715
Well, first of all, when we started, Nodle, the RAS PIs were
1035
01:17:20.050 --> 01:17:22.550
way on the powered compared to other solutions.
1036
01:17:23.170 --> 01:17:26.870
The the r pi threes. Right? Yeah. It was Raspis 3. And,
1037
01:17:27.835 --> 01:17:30.574
the the stock distro was 32 bits,
1038
01:17:31.355 --> 01:17:31.855
which,
1039
01:17:32.235 --> 01:17:34.494
which was coming with its sets of problems.
1040
01:17:37.340 --> 01:17:44.800
The chip on the Raspberry Pi is totally closed and not sold to anyone else than the Raspberry Pi Foundation.
1041
01:17:46.665 --> 01:17:50.925
Actually, there are some projects, like, of custom boards based on the Raspberry,
1042
01:17:51.625 --> 01:17:52.605
chip. And
1043
01:17:53.210 --> 01:17:58.510
what they do is they unsold all the chips from Raspberry because they can't get the chip otherwise.
1044
01:18:01.095 --> 01:18:03.495
They have a weird bootloader. They have,
1045
01:18:04.055 --> 01:18:12.990
Microsoft hypervisor running on the GPU, which is actually bootstrapping the CPU. CPU. There there's a lot of weird things happening on these both. Okay. I
1046
01:18:13.610 --> 01:18:14.990
understand. Not very stable.
1047
01:18:16.005 --> 01:18:21.465
I mean, many power supply issues. Like, if you don't have the perfect power supply, it's crashing all the time.
1048
01:18:23.045 --> 01:18:30.180
But I I mean, personally, I don't have anything against running full nodes on, on the. I my first prototype
1049
01:18:31.695 --> 01:18:32.595
from 2017
1050
01:18:33.055 --> 01:18:37.395
was a Raspice 0, and it was running perfectly for for at least half a year.
1051
01:18:39.960 --> 01:18:42.300
Talk about the Wi Fi driver, please.
1052
01:18:44.360 --> 01:18:44.860
Disgusting.
1053
01:18:46.840 --> 01:18:49.100
Cheetah, you have opinion on the Wi Fi driver?
1054
01:18:49.945 --> 01:18:52.125
We don't do Wi Fi. So, anyway
1055
01:18:52.585 --> 01:18:55.805
Does does the r pi 4 have built in Wi Fi?
1056
01:18:56.600 --> 01:19:00.380
They all do, I think. They all do. Yeah. I think it is yeah.
1057
01:19:00.840 --> 01:19:03.659
I didn't know that. It's on by default too.
1058
01:19:04.105 --> 01:19:07.325
But none of the node packages use it. You have to plug them into Ethernet.
1059
01:19:07.945 --> 01:19:10.365
Yeah. It's because nobody wants dude.
1060
01:19:11.065 --> 01:19:23.165
And aside from the driver, also, the that. The the hardware is absolute shit for the Wi Fi. So what everybody does is put a a Wi Fi card on a Wi Fi enabled device. That's how bad it is.
1061
01:19:23.565 --> 01:19:25.825
Right. Or, like, you have a USB. Right?
1062
01:19:26.845 --> 01:19:34.520
Yeah. I just don't get it. Like, you have If you want to get good Wi Fi on any SBC, just buy an external That's ridiculous.
1063
01:19:34.980 --> 01:20:00.505
That's ridiculous. I mean, I thought I thought one of the benefits of them was that it was, like, one of the few compute devices we had that just had no wireless in it. Does it have Bluetooth? Good. Does it have Bluetooth in it as well? Like, listen. On the beginning, yeah, there's Bluetooth. No. Are you fucking kidding me? No. There's Bluetooth only on the version 4 and on, I think. But But anyways Well, that's what we're all using now anyway. Nobody's using a pi 3. The pi 3 suck in comparison to 4. You might as well buy a 4. The 4 is, like, $70.
1064
01:20:01.040 --> 01:20:07.219
If you're a Bitcoiner and can't afford $70, like, how long have you been a Bitcoiner for? Just use a just use a rock 64.
1065
01:20:08.335 --> 01:20:17.730
Right. It's like listen. On the beginning, I was a fan of raspberry pies. There wasn't anything else. Raspberry pies are great for children in Africa that don't have food. Wow.
1066
01:20:18.349 --> 01:20:26.369
But They can afford them. But anybody who has a fucking cell phone that is, like, a a a 1,000,000 times faster computer
1067
01:20:26.695 --> 01:20:32.315
than a Raspberry Pi should be using a rock 64, at least. There is, like, 50 different projects
1068
01:20:32.695 --> 01:20:37.420
that are good. Triggering the chat so much right now. I'm sorry, guys, but fuck raspberry
1069
01:20:38.680 --> 01:20:45.100
pi. Okay. So it's important it's important. I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna side with Jan Verheer in the comments
1070
01:20:45.565 --> 01:20:46.465
and Zayazaza,
1071
01:20:48.125 --> 01:20:49.905
with with pies are fine.
1072
01:20:51.405 --> 01:20:53.745
Do you wanna leave it up to find a raspie.
1073
01:20:54.390 --> 01:20:56.890
The the the majority of things that we use
1074
01:20:57.590 --> 01:20:58.730
full nodes for,
1075
01:21:00.230 --> 01:21:04.295
if they're compromised, it's a privacy compromise. Right? It's not a security compromise.
1076
01:21:11.255 --> 01:21:17.320
Routing node, like, if you're gonna run a series routing node, like, you shouldn't run it on a pie. Right? Listen. Rock 64 is great.
1077
01:21:17.780 --> 01:21:21.895
You could also buy a used Mac mini. You can u like, there's a bunch of
1078
01:21:22.375 --> 01:21:23.115
go look into
1079
01:21:23.495 --> 01:21:24.395
micro microATX
1080
01:21:25.495 --> 01:21:27.355
computers. There's a bunch of, like,
1081
01:21:28.135 --> 01:21:33.370
fanless computers that cost, like, maybe like double Raspberry Pi, but they were gonna
1082
01:21:33.989 --> 01:21:37.210
run forever, and you can run all the model software on them.
1083
01:21:38.630 --> 01:21:39.130
Nobody
1084
01:21:39.905 --> 01:21:44.325
who who who has money to eat should be by a computer that costs less than a $100.
1085
01:21:44.945 --> 01:21:45.685
Fuck you.
1086
01:21:46.065 --> 01:21:55.540
Rasp it's cool that it costs less than a $100. That's pretty dope. Like, I'm looking at it. I have 5 of them right there. Like, it's just use it's just like it's cool that I can just buy that to shoot skeet.
1087
01:21:56.935 --> 01:22:08.079
I I'm more concerned about people hoping to run a node on an SD card in the long term. Yep. Oh, so you want to should we should we talk about this? I mean
1088
01:22:09.440 --> 01:22:14.925
SD cards are designed for cameras and MP 3 players, which do sequential
1089
01:22:15.304 --> 01:22:16.445
writing and reading.
1090
01:22:16.745 --> 01:22:18.445
They are not designed for a computer
1091
01:22:19.150 --> 01:22:37.370
unless you buy a very, very expensive SD card, which probably doesn't even exist on the market because the the good ones are not big enough to run a full node. That's right. Your SD card will die in a few weeks probably. Yep. I I I bought this HTC Exodus phone. I put a $200
1092
01:22:37.750 --> 01:22:39.050
SD card in it.
1093
01:22:39.830 --> 01:22:48.145
It got corrupt after 1 month of use. Yeah. So just so people know, the current technology for micro cards, especially over 32 gigabytes,
1094
01:22:48.525 --> 01:22:51.585
you cannot find cards that have proper error correction,
1095
01:22:51.940 --> 01:22:54.360
and you cannot do SD type memory,
1096
01:22:55.059 --> 01:23:00.039
right, flash memory without error correction for read and write like drives.
1097
01:23:00.420 --> 01:23:01.400
It's not like
1098
01:23:01.975 --> 01:23:05.435
this is just a camera saving pictures that does that very precisely.
1099
01:23:05.735 --> 01:23:08.635
The cameras are very good at doing that just for that.
1100
01:23:09.630 --> 01:23:13.650
SD cards were not designed to be read, write, like, hard drives.
1101
01:23:14.030 --> 01:23:16.130
They will break very fast.
1102
01:23:19.764 --> 01:23:22.505
Yes, Martin. I have standards. Fuck Raspberry Pi.
1103
01:23:23.125 --> 01:23:35.890
The the best like, one of the best parts about dispatch. I just wanna say thanks to the to to all the freaks joining us in the live chat. I know this is an earlier time than usual. I know that we have a lot of new freaks in here because we have the European
1104
01:23:38.195 --> 01:23:39.255
side, and maybe
1105
01:23:39.715 --> 01:23:43.255
a little bit of Asia on the opposite side. We have, like, the
1106
01:23:43.580 --> 01:23:48.080
the late night Asian crowd versus the early day Asian crowd.
1107
01:23:48.860 --> 01:23:52.700
It's pretty crazy just, like, thinking about time zones and thinking about global
1108
01:23:53.145 --> 01:23:59.085
like, how global the space is, like, when I'm trying to decide when this stream goes out every Bitcoin Tuesday.
1109
01:24:00.430 --> 01:24:07.730
So that's just that's just a cool concept. I think this is the fact that we have them berating us in the live chat while we're going,
1110
01:24:08.805 --> 01:24:13.465
is very unique to this show that that's just automatically broadcast. No one is,
1111
01:24:16.380 --> 01:24:30.554
yeah. I mean, like, fuck censorship and shit. I mean, like, I I just obviously, MBK disagrees with me on this, but I don't block people. I don't mute people. So I'm glad this is. Well, Matt, it's just because you're not a time maximalist yet. You will learn that in time. You're a young grasshopper.
1112
01:24:31.335 --> 01:24:32.635
We'll see. So
1113
01:24:33.110 --> 01:24:34.650
before we wrap up that topic,
1114
01:24:35.750 --> 01:24:44.264
thank you all you freaks for keeping us honest. Before we wrap up this topic, I mean, do you want to mention who you're talking about when you talk about SD cards? Because they were just on the show,
1115
01:24:45.445 --> 01:24:48.620
2 episodes ago, and that's my dog reminding us who they were.
1116
01:24:49.420 --> 01:24:53.520
I've actually discovered it in the chart. I didn't realize they were using SD cards.
1117
01:24:54.460 --> 01:25:06.525
Yeah. So this is Star 9 Labs uses SD cards, and we talked about it in their episode. I had perfect keys Keegan, cofounder of Star 9 Labs, on the show 2 episodes ago, and we we discussed this specifically.
1118
01:25:07.290 --> 01:25:11.310
I I think the biggest concern comes down to if you're using it with lightning.
1119
01:25:11.770 --> 01:25:13.470
Because if you're using it with lightning
1120
01:25:13.850 --> 01:25:18.405
and you that SD card fails, what you're gonna end up with is a static channel backup.
1121
01:25:19.025 --> 01:25:20.405
The static channel backup
1122
01:25:20.864 --> 01:25:22.565
forces you to close your channels.
1123
01:25:23.950 --> 01:25:27.010
So you do recover your funds to your seed,
1124
01:25:27.630 --> 01:25:29.090
your secret backup words,
1125
01:25:29.470 --> 01:25:35.385
but you do so in a way that you lose all your channels. And in a high fee environment, that could really fuck you.
1126
01:25:36.725 --> 01:25:46.505
If if if if fees are high, you're gonna end up spending a ton of money in on chain fees. You're gonna lose the reputation of your node, and then you're gonna have to start start fresh.
1127
01:25:48.245 --> 01:25:50.905
That said, you're only losing transaction fees.
1128
01:25:51.445 --> 01:25:52.745
And if you don't use Lightning,
1129
01:25:53.390 --> 01:25:57.650
I would say it's probably less of a risk. If you have strong backups, if you're backing up onto
1130
01:25:58.190 --> 01:25:59.330
a USB drive,
1131
01:26:00.430 --> 01:26:07.554
probably less of a risk. I still think SSD is better just to, like, have a proper SSD, and I think they do agree and they're gonna do that soon.
1132
01:26:08.255 --> 01:26:09.795
Well, another thing is
1133
01:26:10.300 --> 01:26:10.800
I
1134
01:26:11.659 --> 01:26:14.640
I guess they ship precinct like we all do,
1135
01:26:15.340 --> 01:26:20.875
because if you try to sync on an SD card, you will never manage to go that. Yeah.
1136
01:26:21.495 --> 01:26:23.755
But it it's pre synced, but it's
1137
01:26:24.429 --> 01:26:27.810
it's it's still verified. Right? Like, the chain is still verified
1138
01:26:28.190 --> 01:26:29.010
per the rules.
1139
01:26:32.155 --> 01:26:35.055
Kito, what what what's a a small SSD,
1140
01:26:36.795 --> 01:26:37.295
drive
1141
01:26:37.755 --> 01:26:38.495
that fits
1142
01:26:39.035 --> 01:26:39.695
a node
1143
01:26:40.160 --> 01:26:44.900
going on 1 terabyte now. You gotta do 1 terabyte? How much are they going for these days?
1144
01:26:46.240 --> 01:26:46.740
38?
1145
01:26:47.120 --> 01:26:51.015
So we we recently switched to the Samsung Evo's 870,
1146
01:26:52.035 --> 01:26:59.060
SATA SSDs because they just came out. And, actually, that explained finally why we had trouble getting the 8 sixties.
1147
01:27:00.719 --> 01:27:04.739
They go for less than a $100 now for 1 So, like, 80. Right?
1148
01:27:05.145 --> 01:27:07.245
Is it possible? It's â¬100
1149
01:27:07.705 --> 01:27:10.925
here including tax, so I guess it's, like, 80, $90.
1150
01:27:11.625 --> 01:27:22.079
Can you still, do if you set up a pre synced, can you do pre synced spinning disk still, or it's just just not gonna get there? Why would you do that? Probably not 2 and a half inch.
1151
01:27:23.105 --> 01:27:42.034
Yeah. Because it's really cheap, man. Like Yeah. But it'd be so bad. Like, that's what the original Casa did. Guys are buying Raspberry Pi? The the rad the original Casa was r pi threes with spinning disc. And I was like, guys, like, you're just, like, fucking people. Like, they're gonna be so angry at you, and then they were just so angry at them. Like, what did you expect? Like, I actually
1152
01:27:42.354 --> 01:27:50.520
In one of my early prototypes, I actually bought from Western Digital. You'd used to have a range of accessories for Raspberry Pisces and SBCs.
1153
01:27:51.060 --> 01:27:55.080
And they had these very low power, 2 and a half inch hard drives.
1154
01:27:56.595 --> 01:27:57.415
They were, like,
1155
01:27:58.035 --> 01:28:02.055
3,000 RPM, like, slower than anything you will ever find in a computer,
1156
01:28:02.595 --> 01:28:05.940
and it was basically taking longer than a micro SD.
1157
01:28:06.400 --> 01:28:09.860
I still have to this day, I still have friends and family
1158
01:28:10.775 --> 01:28:13.275
that can they think that they owe me considerable
1159
01:28:13.575 --> 01:28:14.075
favor
1160
01:28:14.455 --> 01:28:16.795
because I approached them, and I was like, I can
1161
01:28:17.175 --> 01:28:19.675
make your computer better, and I just replaced their
1162
01:28:20.300 --> 01:28:22.780
spinning disk with an SSD. That's all I did.
1163
01:28:23.100 --> 01:28:32.844
And I I just I fucking did it. They're like, oh my god. You're a fucking god. Like, no one should fucking use spinning disk. Yeah. The the SSD is the best upgrade you can get for any computer.
1164
01:28:33.465 --> 01:28:34.765
Have you looked into,
1165
01:28:35.465 --> 01:28:35.784
the
1166
01:28:36.780 --> 01:28:38.160
how do they call these things?
1167
01:28:40.300 --> 01:28:42.560
OnLogic has them. It's called
1168
01:28:43.020 --> 01:28:44.560
it's a Celeron based,
1169
01:28:45.465 --> 01:28:47.965
but it's like a special fanless board.
1170
01:28:50.105 --> 01:29:01.620
Where is the name of the board? That's what I kinda like about raspi. It's like you can just buy, like, 1 for 70 and just not even use it with a fan or anything and just, like, fucking destroy it. Oh, there but there is, like, there is a whole industry of fanless
1171
01:29:01.954 --> 01:29:02.994
for all kinds of,
1172
01:29:03.875 --> 01:29:07.574
stuff. I sent a link on the private chat for, for security.
1173
01:29:08.195 --> 01:29:09.815
Yeah. I I didn't
1174
01:29:10.440 --> 01:29:10.940
play
1175
01:29:11.320 --> 01:29:17.660
with this. I think it's mini series. But some j series, definitely. I I have a few few
1176
01:29:18.040 --> 01:29:19.345
home built things
1177
01:29:19.805 --> 01:29:25.905
on top of that. But, actually, I'm rather looking in the latest generation of embedded Ryzen from AMD.
1178
01:29:26.525 --> 01:29:27.345
Okay. Yep.
1179
01:29:27.950 --> 01:29:42.335
Because they also have this memory encryption feature, which is in the silicon and just not activated in software yet. Right. And I'm harassing the local importer to get the bios with this feature enabled.
1180
01:29:44.180 --> 01:29:46.040
Not saying that there is a next
1181
01:29:46.500 --> 01:29:47.000
86,
1182
01:29:47.300 --> 01:29:47.800
64
1183
01:29:48.180 --> 01:29:51.080
AMD based model coming anytime soon.
1184
01:29:51.495 --> 01:29:55.755
Oh. But it's definitely something we are looking at for the
1185
01:29:56.215 --> 01:30:00.315
So it's upcoming. Who do you think you are, man? Like okay. You're looking at it. Got it.
1186
01:30:01.420 --> 01:30:06.260
The we're, Enrique, do you want me to should I put this up on the screen? What is the
1187
01:30:07.380 --> 01:30:11.245
The OnLogic or the Yeah. The OnLogic. Do you want me to put that on the screen? Or
1188
01:30:13.405 --> 01:30:18.889
well, I think it might just confuse people. But, anyways, there's a whole line. If if you type Apologies.
1189
01:30:19.190 --> 01:30:20.650
Yeah. If you do, like, 386,
1190
01:30:21.030 --> 01:30:21.530
like
1191
01:30:21.909 --> 01:30:26.945
so on logic, they used to call, logic Supplies. These guys are great.
1192
01:30:27.405 --> 01:30:29.105
Really, really professional outfit.
1193
01:30:30.045 --> 01:30:32.625
If you go, Matt, click on, computers.
1194
01:30:33.320 --> 01:30:36.540
No. I can't click on fucking shit. We don't wanna click on shit.
1195
01:30:37.240 --> 01:30:39.180
I don't know. You can't click on stuff?
1196
01:30:39.560 --> 01:30:43.795
I have to, like that's a that's it's Anyway, if anybody image,
1197
01:30:44.175 --> 01:30:46.435
bro. Anyways, if anybody goes on the logic.com
1198
01:30:46.815 --> 01:30:49.235
and then click on fan list computers logic.
1199
01:30:49.614 --> 01:30:50.114
Yeah.
1200
01:30:51.300 --> 01:30:54.519
I I don't I don't know if you've heard about PC engine engines.
1201
01:30:55.139 --> 01:31:01.344
They're all fanless. Everything there is fanless. It's a Swiss company that makes, like, rather firewall oriented,
1202
01:31:01.965 --> 01:31:11.620
boards, but they are AMD g old and something something newer than But can they can they do price and quantity, though? This is the problem that I find with the smaller suppliers.
1203
01:31:12.800 --> 01:31:19.695
Yeah. Yeah. That that's a big issue. So PC engines can definitely do quantities because they are selling, like, tons of rack mounts,
1204
01:31:20.155 --> 01:31:20.975
hardware now.
1205
01:31:21.995 --> 01:31:29.900
We the we have some small scale model rack prototype, actually. We have 2 of those in 1, in a one rack unit,
1206
01:31:30.760 --> 01:31:31.260
chassis.
1207
01:31:32.375 --> 01:31:37.275
So you you get full redundancy inside the low power, like, 30 watts,
1208
01:31:38.695 --> 01:31:39.195
server.
1209
01:31:43.740 --> 01:31:49.600
Yeah. The the HSMs we built, for Kornikite way back in the day, they were all fanless
1210
01:31:52.205 --> 01:31:52.365
industrial,
1211
01:31:53.005 --> 01:31:55.745
like, boards that were we potted the whole board,
1212
01:31:57.245 --> 01:31:58.625
the whole computer board,
1213
01:32:00.650 --> 01:32:02.750
in that case, like, in a fanless case.
1214
01:32:03.690 --> 01:32:05.310
It was it was pretty cool stuff.
1215
01:32:05.770 --> 01:32:10.655
Yeah. So for the record, it's during this kind of discussions back in 2018 that NVK
1216
01:32:11.275 --> 01:32:14.974
told me that we should add a kill switch in the model. Yeah.
1217
01:32:16.210 --> 01:32:17.670
And the Dojo has 1?
1218
01:32:18.530 --> 01:32:19.670
They all have now.
1219
01:32:21.730 --> 01:32:29.315
Oh, the Nodal one has the kill switch as well. Now now the Nodal one ships with the kill switch and for this encryption as well. So this idea is is
1220
01:32:29.695 --> 01:32:38.950
the device is encrypted, but only if it's if it's running, it's not. So it needs to turn off to be Yeah. So in the very,
1221
01:32:41.525 --> 01:32:42.025
very
1222
01:32:42.885 --> 01:32:50.930
impossible case that someone would steal your device while it's connected to the power and try to freeze the memory to extract the encryption keys,
1223
01:32:52.670 --> 01:32:55.730
before they manage to open the case, the
1224
01:32:56.030 --> 01:32:58.835
memory will have the power cut and,
1225
01:32:59.135 --> 01:33:03.235
the keys won't be there anyway. Right. Yeah. That's that cold boot attack.
1226
01:33:03.615 --> 01:33:06.835
When they when they open the case, the power is cut.
1227
01:33:08.260 --> 01:33:10.100
And, also, if you plug,
1228
01:33:10.500 --> 01:33:11.320
cold cards,
1229
01:33:11.620 --> 01:33:20.264
to your c k bunker to your another, you can actually put the cold card inside of the case. So the power to the cold card will be cut as well. Yep.
1230
01:33:20.965 --> 01:33:21.864
Well, that's cool.
1231
01:33:22.565 --> 01:33:26.719
Yeah. That's for the CK bunker stuff that Yep. We ship.
1232
01:33:28.060 --> 01:33:28.880
I dig it.
1233
01:33:31.180 --> 01:33:44.909
Yeah. I mean, the kill switch is a a really cool concept, and then you have the raid. Right? So, like, not only like, we were talking about the issues with SD card. Not only do you have one SSD in the Nautilus, you have 2. Right? So one is mirroring the other.
1234
01:33:45.449 --> 01:33:53.455
Yeah. And a and a little known fact known fact is that the the normal ones that were shipped after we activated the encryption,
1235
01:33:55.835 --> 01:33:56.335
actually
1236
01:33:56.715 --> 01:34:06.690
have only one SSD, but the it's configured in a way that if you add an external one, you can make a RAID one with the internal and the external SSDs.
1237
01:34:07.310 --> 01:34:10.849
I'm I'm pretty sure it's the only major node package that is
1238
01:34:11.375 --> 01:34:14.995
full disk encrypted. I think everything else is, like, individual.
1239
01:34:15.775 --> 01:34:18.435
Yeah. So so this is the thing. Right? Like,
1240
01:34:18.989 --> 01:34:25.570
nobody should be running any computer of any kind without at least basic full disk encryption.
1241
01:34:26.510 --> 01:34:27.010
Like,
1242
01:34:27.745 --> 01:34:30.725
there is absolutely no reason for that.
1243
01:34:33.025 --> 01:34:39.230
I mean, and this is to be clear, this is for a physical type attack. Right? So you have you have a person who has
1244
01:34:39.610 --> 01:34:41.389
physical access to the computer.
1245
01:34:41.929 --> 01:34:45.885
They're they're holding the computer in their hand. The computer is in front of them. Yep.
1246
01:34:46.425 --> 01:34:49.165
Yep. And everybody should be running free BSD.
1247
01:34:49.945 --> 01:34:51.005
And this is why
1248
01:34:51.545 --> 01:34:53.870
well, I mean I'm like, fuck you, Enrique.
1249
01:34:54.270 --> 01:35:02.210
The the this is why, like, when the I would argue that open BSD would be better for Bitcoin. Yeah. Exactly. But it we're BSD Max.
1250
01:35:03.335 --> 01:35:06.875
This is still dispatch. It's supposed to be actionable Bitcoin discussion,
1251
01:35:07.415 --> 01:35:22.975
not a masturbation Bitcoin discussion. Because Linux is a shitcoin. So, see, Bitcoin related now. This is why this idea of a kill switch, this idea of full disk encryption is why when they hit Dread Pirate Roberts, they hit him in the library
1252
01:35:23.675 --> 01:35:24.975
while he was accessing,
1253
01:35:26.074 --> 01:35:36.390
Silk Road. This is why when they hit the b d c e guy, they ran through his driveway gate while he was on his computer, and then he ran outside in his robe
1254
01:35:36.690 --> 01:35:47.989
angry at them. And then they ran inside, and he was still signed into his computer, and it wasn't off. If that computer's off, then all of a sudden they have to brute force his encryption password. If it's a strong encryption password,
1255
01:35:48.449 --> 01:35:54.405
you could be the mightiest government in the world. You're not gonna fucking get into that encryption password. Well, it's complicated
1256
01:35:54.945 --> 01:36:14.974
because Okay. But but the point is the point is if it was very easy for them to do it, they wouldn't bust in his fucking gate with a fucking minivan. Right? So well, a little bit of parallel this parallel reconstruction there by law enforcement because I'm sure they had already illegally find what they had. They already knew what they needed. No. Just like just like your TPR. Right?
1257
01:36:15.355 --> 01:36:22.690
But but but the thing the problem with this encryption in general is that if you're not running, say, free BSD and building from source,
1258
01:36:24.110 --> 01:36:35.474
it's possible that whatever package you're using to do that encryption could be compromised, but that but that's like we're talking about, like, like, a a much deeper sort of, like, tinfoil hat and
1259
01:36:35.934 --> 01:36:40.760
and partly reason too on why people shouldn't use general purpose computers for,
1260
01:36:41.460 --> 01:36:43.159
like, you know, as hardware.
1261
01:36:43.460 --> 01:36:44.120
Right? Like,
1262
01:36:44.500 --> 01:36:48.040
it's because of that. There is a massive stack of stuff
1263
01:36:48.385 --> 01:36:50.485
that you can't possibly verify.
1264
01:36:50.865 --> 01:36:57.765
There is smaller packages that are harder to use, but anyways, so so it goes into that deep rabbit hole about that.
1265
01:37:01.800 --> 01:37:05.720
Yes. So, also, one one funny thing I'm I'm working on actually is,
1266
01:37:06.625 --> 01:37:10.405
I figured that with all the system d and all
1267
01:37:10.945 --> 01:37:12.645
the launching metals on Linux,
1268
01:37:13.025 --> 01:37:15.205
which piss me off, I would be switching
1269
01:37:15.585 --> 01:37:16.324
all the
1270
01:37:16.910 --> 01:37:21.170
service starting on the model, at least in the encrypted part.
1271
01:37:21.710 --> 01:37:32.405
Because so yeah. For this encryption, it's nice, but you need somehow to enter the password at some point. So the eMMC on which we initially boot is not encrypted and just shows you the page
1272
01:37:32.865 --> 01:37:42.150
asking for the encryption password of the SSD, which runs all the software, actually. See, that's but see, the the that's the beautiful thing. Right? Like, you guys know what you're doing.
1273
01:37:42.450 --> 01:37:42.950
So
1274
01:37:43.625 --> 01:37:50.445
there's a massive difference between Notal, and by the way, Anthony was very funny there if you care about privacy. Right? If
1275
01:37:51.145 --> 01:37:57.460
you so shout out to Anthony Anthony Ronning in the comments. If you care about privacy, you shouldn't go outside.
1276
01:37:58.240 --> 01:38:01.505
So this is a difference between You're not even allowed to if you live in Canada
1277
01:38:03.585 --> 01:38:13.000
right now. Right. And and Keto. So, like, Keto from Noto. Like, these guys are building the package from from scratch, right, of the OS that they run. So they're picking out the libraries. They're picking how things are being done.
1278
01:38:13.300 --> 01:38:15.160
The average person running Ubuntu,
1279
01:38:16.475 --> 01:38:21.935
it's not a great idea. Fucked. Right? Yeah. I'd rather use OSX than Ubuntu. What about what about Windows?
1280
01:38:22.395 --> 01:38:26.260
No. I mean, Windows is not a software. It's a virus. So, like, we don't even
1281
01:38:26.639 --> 01:38:31.780
We do but you don't even realize, like, 70% of, Bitcoin Twitter use the Windows.
1282
01:38:32.375 --> 01:38:40.475
Yeah. But it might not for their Bitcoin purposes. I know. A lot of people use Windows. A lot a lot more people than you think are using Windows. Oh, they can go fuck themselves.
1283
01:38:43.790 --> 01:38:49.250
I I would say in the normal user base, it's probably 40% Windows, 40% Mac, and 20%.
1284
01:38:49.870 --> 01:38:50.770
Anything else?
1285
01:38:52.255 --> 01:38:52.755
Oof.
1286
01:38:53.775 --> 01:39:02.560
But, anyway, yeah, to to to to end my point, so the with this new launching process, we actually can run the full nodal software stack,
1287
01:39:03.180 --> 01:39:04.000
in the US,
1288
01:39:05.580 --> 01:39:06.880
which means that
1289
01:39:07.660 --> 01:39:17.535
just by replacing the the the binary names in the comments that download them from the official repositories, we can switch to BSD or whatever we want we want.
1290
01:39:20.739 --> 01:39:21.480
That's awesome.
1291
01:39:26.215 --> 01:39:29.195
Cheers to that. Happy Bitcoin Tuesday, freaks.
1292
01:39:29.895 --> 01:39:33.675
This has been a fucking fantastic conversation so far. Did we get to 55
1293
01:39:34.290 --> 01:39:34.950
this afternoon?
1294
01:39:35.730 --> 01:39:37.350
I love that I love that,
1295
01:39:38.210 --> 01:39:42.070
this just pumps and and dumps while we're on air. It's, like, fantastic.
1296
01:39:44.465 --> 01:39:49.525
I mean, that's what Bitcoin is about. Right? I think if you're using Windows, we we have
1297
01:39:49.960 --> 01:40:06.195
I mean, yeah, Bitcoin's about, pumping and dumping in the short term. I I mean, that's it's the best drug there is. We have Zanza in the comments asking, what do you do if you're using Windows? Migrate to Mac. I really do think that Pop!OS no. Fuck you. I think Pop!OS is, like, a very good beginner,
1298
01:40:07.600 --> 01:40:11.220
Linux distro. I'll listen to Matt. Just use an app. Is very functional,
1299
01:40:11.760 --> 01:40:14.980
and and you don't have to deal with fucking
1300
01:40:15.465 --> 01:40:16.765
trusting Tim Apple
1301
01:40:17.305 --> 01:40:23.485
with all what apps you use and shit. Like, he's gonna decide. And, like, in the next 2 years, he's gonna start deciding.
1302
01:40:24.010 --> 01:40:24.910
Like, I understand
1303
01:40:25.450 --> 01:40:27.550
the new Imac is sexy as fuck
1304
01:40:27.930 --> 01:40:28.910
because it is.
1305
01:40:29.530 --> 01:40:30.030
But,
1306
01:40:30.945 --> 01:40:41.190
you know, at at some point, you have to fucking draw the line. Like, they're just deciding what you can and cannot run, and they're making it very difficult. So so here's the thing. I I agree that the stock,
1307
01:40:42.210 --> 01:40:43.110
Mac OS,
1308
01:40:43.489 --> 01:40:46.710
sort of has a little bit much too much of a cock in your face.
1309
01:40:47.775 --> 01:40:57.460
They need to tone that down. But aside from that, you can turn all that shit off. It's still like, what people don't understand about Max is that they actually come from the BSD lineage,
1310
01:40:58.240 --> 01:40:59.860
you know, of real Unix,
1311
01:41:00.800 --> 01:41:01.300
and,
1312
01:41:01.920 --> 01:41:03.620
and they they are fairly
1313
01:41:04.215 --> 01:41:04.715
fairly,
1314
01:41:05.255 --> 01:41:06.315
hardened machines.
1315
01:41:07.175 --> 01:41:09.195
They they do a lot of stuff right.
1316
01:41:09.975 --> 01:41:13.355
They're If you look at Catalina and and the next versions,
1317
01:41:14.760 --> 01:41:23.420
they're like a very well installed hardened BSD system with the all the system files read only and only the the user
1318
01:41:23.844 --> 01:41:24.985
stuff read, writes.
1319
01:41:26.005 --> 01:41:29.465
It's like they they basically applied all the best practices.
1320
01:41:30.005 --> 01:41:40.389
Yeah. So it's the real deal. Right? Like, when maybe people just don't know the history, right, of, like, how Unix sort of evolved and and how sort of, like, things went in each direction.
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:33:13 PM
Duration: 10489.939
Channels: 1
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or when any such major developments might be revealed?
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Sure. Thanks, Martin.
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So as I noted in our opening remarks and we've announced previously, so Tesla did
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invest 1,500,000,000
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into Bitcoin in q one, and then we subsequently sold a 10% stake stake in that. We also allow customers to make
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vehicle deposits
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and final vehicle
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purchases using Bitcoin.
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And so where our our Bitcoin story began, maybe just to share a little of the context here,
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Elon and I were looking for a place to store cash that wasn't being immediately used,
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try to get some level of return on this, but also preserve liquidity,
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Particularly as we look forward to the launch of Austin and Berlin and uncertainty that's happening with semiconductors
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and port capacity,
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being able to access our cash very quickly is super important to us right now.
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And there aren't many traditional opportunities to do this or at least that we found and in talking to others that we could get good feedback on, particularly with yields being so low
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and without taking on additional risk or sacrificing liquidity.
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And, and Bitcoin seemed at the time and and so far has proven to be,
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a good decision,
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a good place to place some of our cash that's not immediately being used for daily operations or or maybe not needed till the end of the year
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and, be able to get some return on that.
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And, you know, I I think one of the key points that I wanna make about our experiences in the digital currency space
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is that there's a lot of reasons to be optimistic here. We're certainly watching it very closely at Tesla,
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watching how the market develops,
25
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listening to what our customers are saying.
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But, you know, thinking about it from a corporate treasury perspective,
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been quite
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pleased with how much liquidity there is in in the Bitcoin market. So our our ability to build our first position happened very quickly.
29
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When we did the sale later in March, we also were able to execute on that very quickly. And so as we think about kind of global
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liquidity for the business and risk management,
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being able to get cash in and out of the market is something that I think is exceptionally important for us.
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So we do believe long term in the value of Bitcoin, so it is our intent to hold what we have long term
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and continue to accumulate Bitcoin from
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transactions from our customers as they purchase vehicles.
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Specifically, with respect to things we may do,
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there are things that we're constantly discussing.
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We're not planning to make any announcements here. We're watching this space closely.
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So when we're ready to make an announcement on this front, if there's one to come, you know, we'll certainly let you all know.
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It's your boy, Matt O'Dell, here for our weekly
41
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dispatch. 19 straight Bitcoin Tuesdays so far.
42
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Kind of unbelievable that we've gotten this far so quickly.
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Couldn't have done it without you guys. So cheers to all of you that are here. Cheers to all of you that have been here in the past.
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Looking forward to doing this every fucking week,
45
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for as long as we can make it happen.
46
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This is Citadel dispatch 19, the interactive live show about Bitcoin distributed systems privacy and open soft source software.
47
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To those joining us from our various audio streams, whether that's our 2 podcast feeds, the Tales from the Crypt podcast feed, and the Citadel dispatch dedicated feed, or from the various podcasting 2 point o apps.
48
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That intro clip was Tesla's CFO,
49
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AKA Master of Coin, Zach Kirkhorn,
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on their
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q one earnings call.
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Absolutely unbelievable
53
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that that's the kind of conversation that's happening at an S and P 500 company.
54
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Also unbelievable
55
00:04:43.960 --> 00:04:46.380
that the haters tried to make that seem bearish.
56
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It's the most bullish fucking thing I've heard
57
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in in at least weeks. This is Bitcoin land, so we move fast.
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Shout out to the ride or die joining us live as always, whether that's Twitter, Twitch, or YouTube.
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You guys make this chat. You guys make this, this show. You guys make dispatch what it is.
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To those that are here, obviously, this is our earlier time slot
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because we have Kito joining us from,
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from Europe,
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I consider this our European time slot, 1700 UTC. So we have our 21 100 UTC, normal time slot,
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then we have our 1700 UTC is our European time slot. This is a global show. This is a global movement. It's kinda cool that the live chat,
65
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is is gonna be populated with different freaks,
66
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because of the different time slots. So thank you guys for being here.
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To those counting at home, this is the 3rd time that we've that we've used this European time slot, the 1700 UTC.
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Shout out to daddy Warbits on Twitter
69
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at daddy warbits.
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It comes to my attention that some of you freaks didn't even realize, but we had a giveaway last week courtesy of daddy warbits.
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It was announced after the outro music, so a lot of you missed it.
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We had a winner on Twitter, and we had a winner in our sphinx tribe. The Sphinx tribe actually took, like, 3 days before the winner actually came. Someone actually,
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you know, responded to the to the queue, which was you had to say, Bitcoin's designed to pump forever, Matt.
74
00:06:18.175 --> 00:06:25.320
And both those winners got free tickets to Bitcoin 2021 courtesy of Daddy Warbits. And those tickets have massive resale value. So,
75
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shout out to him for providing them free to the freaks. That's pretty cool. And it was his idea to do it at the end of the outro music,
76
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and incorporate the sphinx tribe so that the rider dies were the ones who got it. So that's really cool. The sphinx tribe is now over 200 people, 200 freaks.
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Very active community over there. So if you haven't made it, consider joining.
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And just in general, I just wanted to thank all the freaks that have been supporting dispatch.
79
00:06:52.544 --> 00:06:58.164
It's pretty fucking cool. I wanna keep this ad free and sponsor free. So so your support means a ton,
80
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especially the freak that just randomly dropped a 100 k sats into into the tip and dot me
81
00:07:04.190 --> 00:07:05.490
wallet with no message.
82
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Freaks, you can leave a message if you want.
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Either way, it is very much appreciated.
84
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With all that said, what else do I have? I redesigned citadel dispatch.com.
85
00:07:16.900 --> 00:07:21.000
So now all of the important links are there. You can also easily support the show,
86
00:07:21.380 --> 00:07:24.600
using Bitcoin there. You can also easily join the Sphinx tribe
87
00:07:25.995 --> 00:07:32.895
through that website as well. And then me and Wiz have been working on a little project that we're excited to announce, and that's bitcointv.com,
88
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which every episode of Citadel dispatch,
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so far has been hosted there, and every future episode will be as well. You can find links to that at citadel dispatch.com.
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Completely uncensored over there. I don't have to worry about takedown requests.
91
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YouTube's just constantly fucking with my archives.
92
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Twitch doesn't keep archives. So you know, at any moment, you can get the full back catalog
93
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of Citadel dispatch over at bitcointv.com.
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So shout out for to Wiz
95
00:08:01.725 --> 00:08:02.705
for doing that,
96
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hosting the Citadel servers over there. He's gonna be on next week. I don't know who he's gonna be on with yet. I haven't decided, but that should be a fucking fantastic show. That'll be at the normal time again. So 21 100 UTC. So check that out.
97
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I know I have a lot of shout outs here. Oh, one last thing.
98
00:08:20.604 --> 00:08:21.824
I stumbled into,
99
00:08:23.324 --> 00:08:24.544
the Apple Podcasts
100
00:08:24.925 --> 00:08:31.319
app, and, apparently, there's a shit coiner over there who doesn't like the show because we only focus on Bitcoin. So
101
00:08:31.620 --> 00:08:37.240
if you are a freak that owns an Apple phone, consider searching Citadel Dispatch in your in the podcast app and
102
00:08:37.735 --> 00:08:38.955
leaving a good review.
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It it is appreciated.
104
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With all that said,
105
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I got my 2 good friends here, Kita Miner and NVK. NVK, you all know,
106
00:08:48.319 --> 00:08:53.620
is, you know, massive return guests here at Citadel Dispatch. It's very good to have them again.
107
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Keydominer,
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I've been trying to get on this fucking show since the beginning. He kept putting me off. He said he said, Matt, you know, if we do it 3 weeks in the future, we do it at 1700 UTC. I can do it. So I held him to that, and here we are. We finally have him. Kito, what's up? Say hi to the freaks.
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110
00:09:16.075 --> 00:09:18.895
111
00:09:19.649 --> 00:09:20.149
112
00:09:21.889 --> 00:09:24.149
113
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114
00:09:25.570 --> 00:09:26.870
just to reiterate,
115
00:09:27.405 --> 00:09:29.185
because I kinda just missed that,
116
00:09:30.285 --> 00:09:32.065
Cheetah Miner is the cofounder,
117
00:09:33.165 --> 00:09:33.665
of
118
00:09:34.205 --> 00:09:34.705
Noddle,
119
00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:37.220
which is a home node,
120
00:09:37.760 --> 00:09:39.860
and they also now have Nodl Cloud.
121
00:09:40.800 --> 00:09:44.100
Freaks might remember last week, I mentioned that our
122
00:09:45.045 --> 00:09:45.785
long standing,
123
00:09:46.404 --> 00:09:51.145
tails from the crypt node stacking sats, if you start stacking sats on one dot ml
124
00:09:51.605 --> 00:09:52.265
one ml.com,
125
00:09:52.950 --> 00:09:55.529
has now been moved to Nauta Cloud, and the minimum
126
00:09:55.910 --> 00:10:02.730
has been minimum channel size has been reduced to 500 k sats. So now that fees are cleaning up,
127
00:10:03.495 --> 00:10:05.755
consider opening a channel there. It's well connect
128
00:10:06.375 --> 00:10:15.570
I've already balanced channels manually with 2 freaks who did it. So shout out to them for getting their shit done. And, you can reach me on Telegram or Keybase if you wanna manually
129
00:10:16.029 --> 00:10:17.250
balance that out.
130
00:10:18.635 --> 00:10:22.255
So with all that said, I mean, we're gonna start with the focus on Bitcoin hardware,
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and then we're just gonna, in proper dispatch fetch fashion,
132
00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:31.699
just constantly, you know, just just go from there. We're just gonna meander around.
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And I guess before we even get to that, I mean, let's just you know, everyone loves you know, I know we're all in this in it for the tech, but,
134
00:10:40.385 --> 00:10:44.165
this, this week just reminded me of 2017. Like, it's pretty crazy.
135
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You know, I, like, teased for the the dispatch announcement on on Twitter. I teased that,
136
00:10:50.050 --> 00:10:52.790
one of the topics was gonna be that it's bear hunting season.
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It just feels like all of a sudden, like, you know, we we the price dumped a little bit, and everyone just got super bearish.
138
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And
139
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I was kinda waiting for this to happen because it happened so often in 2017. And meanwhile,
140
00:11:07.800 --> 00:11:12.915
here we are, you know, we're probably sitting around the same price that dispatch was last week.
141
00:11:14.735 --> 00:11:17.715
So you guys have any thoughts on that? MBK, you have any thoughts on that?
142
00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:20.540
143
00:11:21.319 --> 00:11:23.980
bearish where Bitcoin is over $50,000?
144
00:11:25.959 --> 00:11:26.620
I mean,
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you know, that just sink in a bit. Right? It's like, it's a project that's only 10 years old. It's over a $1,000,000,000,000,
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and we have
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essentially every single Bitcoin meme has permeated
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mainstream
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where,
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you know, where you have
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like, you know, fortune 5 100 buying 6.15
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Bitcoin.
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You have,
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you know, CFOs being described as master of coin.
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You know, like NFL players asking to get their salaries paid in Bitcoin.
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I think, I think bitcoin has arrived.
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To be a bear on this is pretty silly.
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Anybody who understands how,
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like, treasuries work in in any sort of, like, bigger entity
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understands that they're gonna have rebalancing
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sort of policies,
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sort of to keep everybody,
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you know, to keep shareholders off their ass, to keep, you know, things going and also to keep the treasuries healthy with cash flow, knows that all these entities
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are gonna rebalance, dump,
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you know,
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10 to 30% of their positions depending on the on the on the asset,
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appreciation.
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Right? So as Bitcoin pumps,
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they're gonna dump,
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and it makes perfect sense because that's what, a rational actor does,
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in a in a cash flow need position. Right?
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Remember, these guys are, like, not people, right, that can just save. They need cash flow. They're not people.
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Yeah. I mean, like, it's like it's a it's a corporate entity. Right? Like, they they're a company. They have cash flow needs.
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I What what what MBK is referring to is,
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so they so so Tesla, S and P 500 company, bought $1,500,000,000
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worth of Bitcoin.
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So that's $1,500,000,000
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more Bitcoin than
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overwhelming majority of companies and people have.
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And they sold a small portion of it,
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maybe, like, a month and a half or 2 months later.
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but the price pumped a shit ton as well. So, presumably, they're holding over $2,000,000,000 worth of Bitcoin Mhmm. Conservatively
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speaking.
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And and as as NVK said, they changed the name of the CFO to master of coin. So this idea that people are saying it's bearish is a
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kind of I kind of love it, to be honest. Like, this is this is, like, where I thrive. I don't like when everyone agrees with me. I don't want CNBC to agree with me. I want CNBC to tell us that we're that
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we're going down to 0,
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and I I, you know, I wanna trade against that. That that's, like, where I, like, feel comfortable.
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bought their position in Bitcoin.
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So, like, at at the ATH, they would have been at 2.5x.
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So 250%
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appreciation on their Bitcoin position. Right? This was their most profitable quarter ever, I'm pretty sure. Well, I mean, it's the only time they made a profit.
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I think they made more profit from Bitcoin than they ever made from selling anything.
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Like, what do you think, Kito? Like, there's a lot of
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That's all.
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I I'm sincerely
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not bearish or bullish. I'm just using Bitcoin in, in the everyday life of Nodal because we have to we only get Bitcoin, and we have to pay our supplies in fiat.
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So I I'm usually setting up the worst moment and and get them at the highest price. So You don't accept credit card at Nautilus? No. We still don't.
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It's a work in progress.
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We need a company for that, first of all. We don't have that yet.
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So,
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yeah, anyway and, yeah, so last week, I ended up rebuying something,
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in the deep when which I just sold to pay a supplier and then paid him a few days later.
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So no. What what's what's really a pain for us is the fees, the transaction fees because
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we are managing
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a ton of lightning channels. We are opening and closing channels daily.
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And, recently, we
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we just can't work anymore.
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dismiss is this this idea of dealing with lightning in a high transaction fee environment.
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Before I do that, I just wanted to say, I'm pretty excited about this show because
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you guys both produce Bitcoin hardware, Bitcoin products that I enjoy, I appreciate, I use.
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And I think it's very unique in the space that, you know,
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I I bought the products from you. I've never shilled a ref link of either of yours. You've never been my sponsors, and I think you're both best in class. So cheers to both of you guys,
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for for building such great products,
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And and especially, like, n v
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keto, like, that's fucking crazy that you're running a Bitcoin only business,
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with no fiat. I I don't know.
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I don't think there's, like I I I can't think of another company off the top of my head that only accepts Bitcoin and and does accept fiat.
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So, like, we had to just, like it was updating the price too much on the shopping cart. So it just, like, fuck it. We're good in the nominating fee. The overwhelming majority of people,
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Actually,
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it depends on which direction the price is going.
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It's normally a 30, 70 sort of split, but it could be on the other side. No. It could be on the other side as well. It could be Bitcoin or it could be, credit card. It really depends on the price, direction.
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I I guess since we don't accept Fiat,
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many people just exchange at the moment of buying
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anyway.
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like, all the the new people into the space. Right? When the when the price really pumps, not like, you know, midweek pump. I'm talking about, like, when the price ATH is then you see the all the the the new people into Bitcoin that Like 2020 so far.
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No. No. No. The the the this this last ATH,
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had,
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quite a bit of
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quite a bit of traffic in.
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I I don't know. It's actually all over the place. And then when there's sales, of course, we will buy a ton.
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whenever my
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my,
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whenever I have new corners that I know from
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my life, and they come to me and they say, what should I do? I'm just
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I'm there there's no more, like, pussy footing around. I'm just telling them, you know, you gotta go straight to cold card and running your own using your own node, and I've just fucking
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there's there's no more, like, treasure ledger, hold your hand bullshit, like, just fucking just fucking go for it. So at least I've sent at least 5 or 6 new corners over to to buy an Uncle Jim bundle,
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over the last month and a half, you know, anecdotally.
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and then there's all the other stuff. Right? Like, the seed plate.
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It's, like, cheap and good, so, like, people buy a lot of those, and then fuck. The block clock meaning is sort of, like, a little bit of a
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juiced your sales a lot.
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Now it's,
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I almost I think there was, like, one RHR where I was just pretending I knew the numbers to see if I could trigger him to say in the numbers and that that You know, I find that in Bitcoin space, there's nothing to be gained from releasing numbers.
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right, how much you're selling
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and how much, you know, they're gonna, like,
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like,
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go fud your product.
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It's actually a calculator.
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Nobody has ever received one. All the pictures you see online,
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it's all fake.
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I'll say, though, that you could assume that
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every single real Bitcoiner
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has one.
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Yeah. I I mean, like, everybody knows. Right? It's like, if you work on open source and you need a hardware wallet,
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like, to to test wallets or to do anything, like, essentially, we just send, like, you know, more than one for free.
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I just wanna do a quick shout out. Someone said in the comments, and they were very right. The comments have gone by quickly, so I forget who specifically said it.
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But Citadel 21 also is Bitcoin only.
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Yeah.
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If if you think of any other Bitcoin only nonfiat accepting companies, feel free to just throw them in the live chat.
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if you can take,
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Fiat, you should because you're gonna increase your sales.
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And that's gonna prevent you from selling Bitcoin because you're gonna just use the Fiat cash flow, which you're gonna have to need anyways.
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and and and, you know, we've been doing that for, like, years. Right? So it's like it's
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it's nice that, like, most people
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that are our customers know that, like,
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when they pay us in Bitcoin,
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we're also holding the price up because we don't sell if if unless we absolutely need to because of cash flow.
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It's like we just don't sell Bitcoin.
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2014 was like the year of, like, trying to get merchant adoption. That was bullshit merchant adoption where, like, they were all using BitPay, and they were just automatically converting to to dollars.
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So, like, they were just market selling it. And I think, like, this cycle is a cycle
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where we should really promote companies
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that receive money in Bitcoin and ideally through, like, something like BTC pay server and that has no third parties, and they just hold as much of the Bitcoin as possible.
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And those are the types of companies that I'm happy support, and I think that is becoming a little bit more feasible with stuff like Strike because Strike is, like, almost a reverse payment processor. You know? It's,
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you know, Key2Miner might not have a relationship with traditional finance, you know, to have,
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to to accept debit cards or whatever. But if if it's a strike user on their side, they're using a debit card. They don't really realize, and and Keter's getting the Bitcoin that he wants. Right?
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Spend and replace.
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And and just, Kito, I mean, I guess we can call Bitcoin only,
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Fiat too, but I just
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I I the the point was that I was specifically calling out the fact that you guys have have never accepted Fiat, which I think is just commendable. I fucking love it. I just love that you're
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you know, it's it's probably not the best business decision, but I I love that it's all in. And, I mean, look, at the end of the day It will happen one day, and it it might be sooner than than we thought.
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At the end of the day, you can't even sell more Nautilus right now. Right? Like, you're completely
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you've sold as many Nautilus as possible. Your your demand is higher than your supply.
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because of the silicon shortage in China. So some chips,
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are on back order on the boards we are buying, and and the production
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slowed down because of that.
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So what we did now is we order directly from the manufacturer,
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in China or in Shenzhen.
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And, hopefully, we will receive I I just got the notification that 2 packages left by UPS,
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just today,
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and they should arrive on Thursday. And after checking what's inside, we'll be able to announce some hard dates for for the deliveries and reopen the orders.
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We we prefer to close the orders,
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than to keep,
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keep having people back ordering just because we we just we couldn't give any date, any hard date, until
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probably Thursday this week.
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We we got to a point where it's like we do, like, reasonable parts management,
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but, you know, it's still, like, longer lead times and, you know, we're, like, we're just some parts were just sort of, like, paying extra,
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from secondary market and then,
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and then just eating that that loss. But,
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it's it's pretty like, I don't think people appreciate how
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insane the shortage is on parts for everything.
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Yeah. I I bought some boards from importers in Europe for twice the prior the regular price. So there's 2 things going on. Right? One is, like, most suppliers are using this as an excuse to
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to charge more, right, even though they have inventory.
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There's a lot of that going on.
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The other thing is,
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ICs,
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like, actual chips, not just passives. Right? So it's not like resistors or or capacitors, not that kind of stuff.
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Actual chips.
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They,
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they they just have too much demand. It's not even that like, COVID slowed them down a little, but it's not really that. It's just that, like, you know, record sales of cars, record sales of boats, record sales of all kinds of electronics, right, the last 2 years.
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So they just can't can't build factories fast enough to to deliver it.
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dealing with the chip shortage. It's like everyone. The fucking ASICs are dealing with the chip shortage.
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Are are we are people is this priced in? Like, I'm feeling FOMO. I I, you know, I recently, fortunately, got a new computer.
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I already have 2 Nautilus.
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I have I'm not gonna say how many cold guards I own.
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You know, I'm I'm glad that I'm sitting pretty with all this fucking hardware,
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and even I'm feeling FOMO. Like, do we are are we concerned are you guys concerned that this is going to get significantly worse? I feel like these types of things don't just solve themselves overnight. They tend to be lagging type of situations.
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if you need hardware,
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especially
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Bitcoin hardware,
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and,
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you should be buying yesterday
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and just wait a little longer with some patience.
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Because if we have another ATH
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It's gonna take a long time for you to get it. So,
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seriously, it's like just order and and, you know, just wait. Forget that you order. It's gonna come. You know? Like, sometimes it comes in 48 hours. Sometimes it comes in 2 weeks depending,
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you know, how UPS, FedEx, and all those guys are dealing with COVID too.
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We have stuff in stock aside from Block Lock Mini, which we're making as we ship.
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It's just that, you know, there is also the the the couriers. They're all screwed with COVID.
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00:29:43.630 --> 00:29:44.130
379
00:29:45.705 --> 00:29:46.205
And,
380
00:29:46.985 --> 00:29:55.639
so anyways yeah. So, like, just just order and wait. I mean, it's like, who cares if it's gonna take 2 weeks instead of, like, 2 days. Right? It got so bad in 2017.
381
00:29:56.100 --> 00:30:15.470
382
00:30:17.050 --> 00:30:23.025
Well, you do have it now. And and just and just think about it in your head. Like, you know, I I think nowadays,
383
00:30:23.565 --> 00:30:24.785
especially my generation,
384
00:30:25.725 --> 00:30:31.320
we've gotten so enamored or complacent with this idea of, like, 2 day free shipping from Amazon
385
00:30:31.700 --> 00:30:41.055
that when they see something that has a longer lead time that says, you know, like, oh, you're not gonna get it for 3 weeks or 4 weeks or something, They tend to put it off and procrastinate,
386
00:30:41.675 --> 00:30:44.975
and they just don't buy it because they're like, oh, it's not gonna come that quickly.
387
00:30:45.275 --> 00:30:54.830
But it's it's very simple logic. The sooner you order it, the sooner you will get it. And it's just better to just fucking buy it and just get it fucking done with, and it'll come when it comes.
388
00:30:55.154 --> 00:30:55.815
389
00:30:56.115 --> 00:30:58.695
last the last bull market, right,
390
00:30:59.235 --> 00:30:59.735
trends,
391
00:31:00.274 --> 00:31:04.970
Ledger, which is, like, sort of let's say that they're the biggest one for sales numbers
392
00:31:05.430 --> 00:31:06.650
because they have a $60
393
00:31:07.110 --> 00:31:15.225
device. I mean, besides cold card because we don't know the numbers. Well, no. No. No. Let them have the top. I I just let them have the top. I don't care.
394
00:31:16.165 --> 00:31:19.065
They were, I think, like, a 2, 3 month back order.
395
00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:28.820
So, like, people don't appreciate that when the wave comes, it comes, and there is no amount of us preparing inventory can fill it.
396
00:31:31.184 --> 00:31:33.285
Like, it it gets pretty crazy.
397
00:31:33.665 --> 00:31:34.165
So,
398
00:31:35.184 --> 00:31:35.684
seriously,
399
00:31:36.465 --> 00:31:36.965
order
400
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:41.860
because you're gonna need it when that BTC is 10 times the price.
401
00:31:42.639 --> 00:31:45.139
Right? So that would be $500,000.
402
00:31:47.115 --> 00:31:50.975
You're gonna sit very scared with that sitting on your phone wall.
403
00:31:56.289 --> 00:32:01.350
404
00:32:02.545 --> 00:32:07.925
405
00:32:08.465 --> 00:32:11.200
more orders than what we can make.
406
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:20.995
Really wait until the end of the week. We should have good news for you. Why don't you just I feel like I feel like if you provide proper communication
407
00:32:21.455 --> 00:32:25.054
408
00:32:25.810 --> 00:32:26.310
409
00:32:26.770 --> 00:32:28.070
Most people said that,
410
00:32:28.690 --> 00:32:29.510
we had,
411
00:32:29.890 --> 00:32:31.510
of of the latest,
412
00:32:32.530 --> 00:32:37.375
2 months of orders, we probably had 2 requests for refunds because of too much waiting.
413
00:32:38.955 --> 00:32:40.975
But, yeah, most people accept waiting.
414
00:32:41.675 --> 00:32:42.175
415
00:32:42.475 --> 00:32:43.535
You know, it's like
416
00:32:43.899 --> 00:32:46.639
I think the biggest problem is, like, eager noobs
417
00:32:46.940 --> 00:32:48.399
that just came into the space
418
00:32:49.100 --> 00:32:51.600
that, like, you know, are so used to Amazon
419
00:32:53.705 --> 00:32:54.284
that like,
420
00:32:54.985 --> 00:32:59.804
come on. Right? And, like, it's have you never ordered something outside of Amazon?
421
00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:04.860
I I know, like, 50 different retailers that I buy from, right, that are not Amazon,
422
00:33:05.320 --> 00:33:08.060
that are completely, like, unrelated to electronics,
423
00:33:08.515 --> 00:33:13.415
that when I buy from them, it might take 2, 3 weeks to come. Some stuff like you buy takes 3 months.
424
00:33:14.835 --> 00:33:23.010
425
00:33:24.030 --> 00:33:24.850
I I think,
426
00:33:26.405 --> 00:33:34.960
any freaks out there that that are capable of doing that should do that instead. It's it's just better for the ecosystem as a whole as well, and you get a better deal usually.
427
00:33:38.060 --> 00:33:38.560
Yep.
428
00:33:39.820 --> 00:33:46.375
Just because you don't have like, Amazon's gonna take a 30% cut if you go through Amazon. So Not just that. I mean, they stop Well, I actually garbage.
429
00:33:48.275 --> 00:33:50.535
430
00:33:51.050 --> 00:33:58.350
AliExpress products just with a premium. But on the other hand, I don't know how the situation is in the US. But in Europe,
431
00:33:59.195 --> 00:34:03.615
if you buy from Amazon, Amazon is responsible for providing the warranty and
432
00:34:04.315 --> 00:34:08.950
and do something in case of a problem. So that's probably that here. To do that.
433
00:34:12.290 --> 00:34:16.230
434
00:34:17.075 --> 00:34:19.015
burdensome regulation on US companies,
435
00:34:20.355 --> 00:34:22.535
and our government's just run by them. So,
436
00:34:23.475 --> 00:34:23.975
the,
437
00:34:25.720 --> 00:34:31.819
so so before I mean, we've I guess, let's continue talking about Bitcoin hardware, then we'll go to the lightning conversation.
438
00:34:33.015 --> 00:34:36.155
The so Bitcoin hardware, you guys both produce
439
00:34:36.615 --> 00:34:38.635
top end Bitcoin hardware in the space.
440
00:34:40.910 --> 00:34:41.570
You know,
441
00:34:42.190 --> 00:34:44.590
Bitcoin is an interesting beast. Right? Like, you have
442
00:34:46.190 --> 00:34:47.650
in in other industries,
443
00:34:48.785 --> 00:34:50.325
we've seen a consolidation.
444
00:34:50.704 --> 00:34:53.285
It's it's dominated by the top tech companies.
445
00:34:54.305 --> 00:34:58.085
You know, there's a handful of tech companies, the the Apple, Googles, Microsofts,
446
00:35:00.130 --> 00:35:05.990
you know, and then, like, the the second tier, but top still, like, the Sony's and Panasonics and stuff like that.
447
00:35:07.095 --> 00:35:11.275
In the Bitcoin space, all the big players haven't come in yet. You know, the Samsungs,
448
00:35:11.575 --> 00:35:13.115
none of them have come in yet.
449
00:35:13.734 --> 00:35:14.234
So
450
00:35:14.650 --> 00:35:18.350
it's a very interesting dynamic, but at the same time, you also have,
451
00:35:19.290 --> 00:35:20.510
increased trust
452
00:35:20.890 --> 00:35:23.550
concerns. Right? You have increased security concerns.
453
00:35:24.215 --> 00:35:26.955
Don't it's a completely different ballgame almost
454
00:35:27.495 --> 00:35:29.035
than mainstream hardware.
455
00:35:29.575 --> 00:35:30.555
How do you
456
00:35:31.789 --> 00:35:35.490
navigate that? How do you like, to someone who's thinking about maybe
457
00:35:35.869 --> 00:35:41.155
joining the fray of the Bitcoin hardware space, like, how should they approach it? To to consumers
458
00:35:41.935 --> 00:35:47.315
who are looking to buy Bitcoin hardware? What are the things they should consider that are different from, like, buying a phone?
459
00:35:47.810 --> 00:35:52.310
460
00:35:53.650 --> 00:35:56.715
are silently watching and and just hiding,
461
00:35:57.195 --> 00:35:57.935
right now.
462
00:35:58.955 --> 00:36:03.615
I don't know if you remember that, but Ledger is partially owned by Samsung now.
463
00:36:04.750 --> 00:36:06.050
464
00:36:06.589 --> 00:36:07.089
Yeah.
465
00:36:08.270 --> 00:36:14.135
That makes sense because Ledger is, like, the most corporate of all the big But, also, like, I I think
466
00:36:14.995 --> 00:36:17.895
467
00:36:18.195 --> 00:36:19.655
is the equivalent of, like,
468
00:36:20.035 --> 00:36:21.575
us selling apple twos,
469
00:36:22.279 --> 00:36:26.220
right, in the first, like, 15 years of, like, computers. Right?
470
00:36:26.680 --> 00:36:27.180
So
471
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:37.684
it's still very early. There's still gonna be a lot of different things being tried and failed or succeed in the market. Things will all look different. Remember how phones used to all look different?
472
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:44.300
And then eventually, they sort of found their, like, their final form that that's the form that everybody wants.
473
00:36:45.964 --> 00:36:48.464
It's not dissimilar. Right? So, like,
474
00:36:49.405 --> 00:36:59.789
and then, like, you know, most hardware makers don't have pleads as their customers. So they don't have people, like, taking pictures and asking if that grain of sand inside the device
475
00:37:00.089 --> 00:37:02.910
is a a Chinese controlled chip. Right?
476
00:37:04.335 --> 00:37:04.835
So
477
00:37:05.775 --> 00:37:07.315
we have completely different
478
00:37:08.095 --> 00:37:08.815
sort of,
479
00:37:09.295 --> 00:37:11.875
we're still gonna have a niche market of paranoid,
480
00:37:12.230 --> 00:37:13.050
awesome people
481
00:37:13.350 --> 00:37:16.250
that want, open source, that want verifiable,
482
00:37:18.390 --> 00:37:24.055
they want, like, a a bunch of sets of things that, like, major manufacturers are never gonna be able to fulfill.
483
00:37:24.435 --> 00:37:24.935
Right?
484
00:37:26.515 --> 00:37:32.400
And then and then you're gonna definitely see consolidation on the on the more sort of, like, noob consumer,
485
00:37:33.980 --> 00:37:34.480
consumer
486
00:37:34.780 --> 00:37:40.694
oriented products where people don't care about verification and all that stuff. Right? That's where sort of like Ledger is.
487
00:37:41.315 --> 00:37:42.855
I think they're gonna do very well.
488
00:37:44.194 --> 00:37:46.934
But, yeah, it's just it's just different. Right?
489
00:37:48.920 --> 00:37:52.060
Our customers are never gonna be buying from Samsung.
490
00:37:54.280 --> 00:38:00.525
491
00:38:01.465 --> 00:38:04.205
and out there's of of Bitcoin. Like,
492
00:38:04.505 --> 00:38:07.165
the the most probably the the
493
00:38:07.640 --> 00:38:15.820
the TV show that gives you the most accurate idea of how a Bitcoin company looks like right now is how can catch fire 1st season.
494
00:38:16.895 --> 00:38:17.395
495
00:38:17.695 --> 00:38:24.750
The the beginnings of computers built in in your garage and That's right. And the and the competitors punching each other in conferences
496
00:38:25.310 --> 00:38:29.010
and, like, it's like it's the early days of stuff being vented.
497
00:38:29.390 --> 00:38:29.890
Right?
498
00:38:30.190 --> 00:38:32.125
I mean, we don't even know, like,
499
00:38:32.445 --> 00:38:37.425
what hardware wallets are gonna look like or nodes are gonna look like, you know, in the future.
500
00:38:38.685 --> 00:38:39.905
We don't even have
501
00:38:40.369 --> 00:38:43.829
custom made chips just for the stuff yet. Right?
502
00:38:44.450 --> 00:38:51.825
It's still very, very early, and I think people need to understand that, And there's gonna be a lot of iterating as well. Right?
503
00:38:52.765 --> 00:38:58.224
You you you know, nobody in their right mind is buying harder than was, like, Bitcoin harder than was sort of, like,
504
00:38:59.230 --> 00:38:59.890
created, you
505
00:39:00.270 --> 00:39:00.770
know,
506
00:39:01.230 --> 00:39:06.290
5, 7 years ago anymore. Right? It's, like, unsafe. So, like, you just keep on iterating it.
507
00:39:07.495 --> 00:39:14.395
And then eventually, you get to a point where stuff is like, okay. You know, we've reached now the point of diminishing returns, and it's just incremental.
508
00:39:15.390 --> 00:39:19.569
509
00:39:19.950 --> 00:39:24.130
it's just that this market is too small at least in a per in appearance.
510
00:39:25.695 --> 00:39:27.715
They won't enter for 10,000
511
00:39:28.015 --> 00:39:33.075
units market. They will enter when it will be 1,000,000 per year. Or That's right.
512
00:39:33.619 --> 00:39:39.000
513
00:39:39.539 --> 00:39:40.279
that the,
514
00:39:41.615 --> 00:39:47.234
you know, the 20,000 plus people coming into the podcast feeds probably also don't know how to spell it. It's nodl.it.
515
00:39:49.240 --> 00:39:49.980
That's nodl.it
516
00:39:50.840 --> 00:39:52.060
is the domain name.
517
00:39:52.680 --> 00:39:54.060
So go check them out.
518
00:39:54.680 --> 00:39:55.820
On the node topic,
519
00:39:58.355 --> 00:40:01.015
is there is there an issue, like,
520
00:40:01.475 --> 00:40:03.735
especially with Taproot activation. Right?
521
00:40:04.720 --> 00:40:07.940
There's all this talk about which client you run, stuff like that.
522
00:40:09.520 --> 00:40:16.105
Do do we agree that I I guess I guess Enrique called did you call them Austin crowd? Is that what you called them?
523
00:40:17.125 --> 00:40:17.625
524
00:40:17.925 --> 00:40:18.425
Like
525
00:40:19.045 --> 00:40:22.710
526
00:40:23.329 --> 00:40:28.309
like, there there's there's always gonna be demand for niche. Right? Like, niche, hyper customizable,
527
00:40:29.009 --> 00:40:30.630
open source, like,
528
00:40:32.105 --> 00:40:36.605
trust minimized type of hardware, like, is like Samsung's never gonna be able to make a node
529
00:40:37.305 --> 00:40:38.684
that that fits
530
00:40:39.580 --> 00:40:45.920
probably the the majority of the dispatch demographic. Right? Like the majority of the dispatch demographic is never gonna buy
531
00:40:46.435 --> 00:40:49.895
a Samsung node that There is there's polymorphic. UI.
532
00:40:50.195 --> 00:40:58.020
533
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:06.015
Self validating with that node, your own transactions, that's where it's at. So there's sort of like, I see like a split
534
00:41:06.315 --> 00:41:08.495
in the node sort of need
535
00:41:09.035 --> 00:41:12.495
or you could even say market. Right? You're gonna have people
536
00:41:12.900 --> 00:41:18.120
who just need to make transactions, so they're gonna just run Bitcoin core, which is a node on their laptops,
537
00:41:18.660 --> 00:41:22.360
and what they're gonna do is they're just gonna sync every time they need to make a transaction.
538
00:41:22.725 --> 00:41:25.925
Right? Because they don't need to leave that thing running 24 hours. There's no
539
00:41:26.565 --> 00:41:27.465
it does nothing.
540
00:41:28.975 --> 00:41:29.475
Now
541
00:41:30.720 --> 00:41:36.579
what are you gonna have on the other end is, like, all the folks doing lightning, all the folks that want to do relay,
542
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:43.095
like mining. Right? So those need nodes 24 hours a day.
543
00:41:43.555 --> 00:41:45.095
And and I think that market
544
00:41:45.475 --> 00:41:47.095
is unlikely to be served
545
00:41:47.395 --> 00:41:47.895
by,
546
00:41:48.435 --> 00:41:49.255
a customized
547
00:41:49.900 --> 00:41:53.200
something from Samsung. It's it's more like a general purpose computer.
548
00:41:53.500 --> 00:41:56.400
But then there's gonna be niche shops like Nodal,
549
00:41:57.020 --> 00:41:57.520
who's
550
00:41:57.905 --> 00:42:02.405
essentially gonna service the market by providing them a turnkey solution because they still need it.
551
00:42:06.450 --> 00:42:10.610
552
00:42:11.170 --> 00:42:13.410
who really need the 247 running node,
553
00:42:15.055 --> 00:42:15.955
for their business,
554
00:42:16.335 --> 00:42:22.595
they will probably just buy a big ass Dell server or and and run that on That's on video.
555
00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:30.380
That that that's also why we we offer that not very clearly, but we we do offer that as well,
556
00:42:31.160 --> 00:42:38.045
to our customers. If you if you are, let's say, Walmart and you want a full node solution to run your back end,
557
00:42:38.825 --> 00:42:44.960
we can provide you with a with a custom cluster of servers that we'll build for you, install for you, and ship,
558
00:42:45.520 --> 00:42:52.355
559
00:42:53.215 --> 00:42:54.835
560
00:42:56.095 --> 00:42:58.035
561
00:42:58.460 --> 00:42:59.920
nodal cloud. Right? That's,
562
00:43:00.619 --> 00:43:05.119
that's like you're actually sending them the rack server. Yeah. Nodal cloud is hosted in our infrastructure
563
00:43:05.475 --> 00:43:12.250
564
00:43:13.450 --> 00:43:14.430
565
00:43:14.890 --> 00:43:15.630
would you,
566
00:43:18.330 --> 00:43:22.030
I mean, you wanna go over, like, the trust trade offs between those 3 different,
567
00:43:22.955 --> 00:43:27.455
I mean, I guess, there's 2 different models. Right? You have you have the hardware at home,
568
00:43:28.795 --> 00:43:32.330
you have the the hardware at home or your office, whether that's a Nodl
569
00:43:32.630 --> 00:43:35.770
1 or Nodl Dojo that is, like, sitting in your closet.
570
00:43:36.710 --> 00:43:37.850
And then you have,
571
00:43:38.790 --> 00:43:51.540
the, like, the Nodl rack, which is the same trust trade off, presumably, but instead, it's for, like, a larger company. And then you had the Nautil cloud. Do you wanna talk about the difference between controlling your own hardware versus using something like Nautle Cloud?
572
00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:55.780
573
00:43:56.240 --> 00:44:02.505
If you think from a from a perspective of what kind of attacks can be made against this,
574
00:44:03.125 --> 00:44:04.585
this hardware or
575
00:44:05.670 --> 00:44:06.810
or hosted solution.
576
00:44:08.550 --> 00:44:09.050
Basically,
577
00:44:10.310 --> 00:44:16.535
if you're on the hardware somewhere, the worst you risk is the physical stealing of the hardware.
578
00:44:17.635 --> 00:44:19.175
And if you're running it,
579
00:44:19.555 --> 00:44:20.195
in our
580
00:44:20.675 --> 00:44:22.375
or somebody else's infrastructure,
581
00:44:22.755 --> 00:44:24.215
the worst you risk is
582
00:44:26.099 --> 00:44:30.020
stealing of the virtual machine by the holster or by,
583
00:44:30.500 --> 00:44:31.480
or by a hacker.
584
00:44:34.035 --> 00:44:35.955
We currently run on,
585
00:44:36.995 --> 00:44:47.640
on Intel CPUs, which don't offer memory encryption per VM, but we are working on switching to the latest generation of AMD EPYC Processors,
586
00:44:48.580 --> 00:44:54.194
which will allow us to have memory encryption with a CPU generated key,
587
00:44:54.595 --> 00:44:55.335
per VM,
588
00:44:56.434 --> 00:45:01.335
and the hypervisor doesn't have access to those keys. So that means that even with
589
00:45:01.710 --> 00:45:05.970
physical access to the server, we can't dump the memory of a virtual machine.
590
00:45:07.789 --> 00:45:08.930
It costs a lot,
591
00:45:09.905 --> 00:45:13.765
but, ultimately, it's the hardware we we need to be running this service on.
592
00:45:14.305 --> 00:45:18.885
And that that will mitigate almost all the issues because we already have encrypted storage.
593
00:45:20.050 --> 00:45:20.869
The user
594
00:45:21.170 --> 00:45:25.030
is the only person who has the password for the storage encryption.
595
00:45:26.930 --> 00:45:27.430
And
596
00:45:27.885 --> 00:45:29.984
this way, we will also have the,
597
00:45:30.925 --> 00:45:31.984
the memory encryption.
598
00:45:33.325 --> 00:45:35.425
599
00:45:36.269 --> 00:45:37.890
like, the consumer grade stuff,
600
00:45:38.269 --> 00:45:39.970
I I really see a future,
601
00:45:40.349 --> 00:45:42.369
like, very soon where
602
00:45:43.745 --> 00:45:52.725
people are gonna be using those as their cosign devices. Right? Because, you know, you can essentially roll your own Casa. Like, there there is no like,
603
00:45:53.505 --> 00:45:56.309
if you're not, like, a fit for that product, it's a good product.
604
00:45:56.609 --> 00:46:00.150
But if you're not a fit for that product, for privacy reasons or whatever,
605
00:46:00.825 --> 00:46:06.285
there is no reason anymore why you can't just have a a a high availability
606
00:46:07.145 --> 00:46:07.645
model,
607
00:46:07.990 --> 00:46:13.210
right, that you access over Tor, and you just, like, go and cosign your transaction, right, on a
608
00:46:13.590 --> 00:46:14.090
609
00:46:14.630 --> 00:46:22.325
let's just before Kito jumps in here, I mean, the privacy concerns are very real. Right? Like, you're using Casa's node. They know exactly
610
00:46:22.785 --> 00:46:28.780
how much Bitcoin you have, and they have connections to whatever personal information you've shared with them, whether that's,
611
00:46:30.200 --> 00:46:36.495
I mean, the big one is is would be, like, the addresses. They had they have your IP addresses. They have your email address. They have
612
00:46:38.175 --> 00:46:49.589
they say they purge it, but they have your billing addresses, stuff like that. Right? And they're able to see your transactions and your balances. That's a privacy concern. But, Matt, like, the the way I look at this is, like, both cousin and chain services.
613
00:46:50.474 --> 00:47:09.040
614
00:47:09.580 --> 00:47:10.080
But,
615
00:47:10.444 --> 00:47:11.105
you know,
616
00:47:11.565 --> 00:47:12.625
ultimately, like, I mean,
617
00:47:13.005 --> 00:47:16.464
they're essentially providing a good service for that. Right? It's already keyless.
618
00:47:17.005 --> 00:47:19.105
619
00:47:19.820 --> 00:47:24.080
part of that aspect too. Right? Like, if you're running a company, it's kinda nice having a third party
620
00:47:24.460 --> 00:47:26.960
that's also witness to your books. Right?
621
00:47:27.414 --> 00:47:32.075
Especially in, like, Bitcoin land and in in the current state of Bitcoin land. It's, like, kind of nice
622
00:47:32.375 --> 00:47:38.780
if if there's ever, like, an auditing situation and investors are curious what's going on, it's nice to have a third party
623
00:47:39.080 --> 00:47:42.060
that is that is party to all of those transactions. Right?
624
00:47:43.880 --> 00:47:47.885
625
00:47:48.585 --> 00:47:49.085
for,
626
00:47:50.265 --> 00:47:54.360
accounting, like, official accounting is all done in fiat basis anyways. Right?
627
00:47:54.760 --> 00:48:02.520
Right. So at the end of the day, what was the basis cost and what did you sell it for? Right? So all that matters is those, is the the,
628
00:48:04.325 --> 00:48:05.465
the realization events.
629
00:48:07.445 --> 00:48:15.590
So yeah. I mean, yes and no. It it really depends on on on the person, but but, yeah, like, I think what really helps here is that
630
00:48:16.050 --> 00:48:17.110
in in entities,
631
00:48:18.290 --> 00:48:21.350
that have more people. Right? Having a third party,
632
00:48:22.395 --> 00:48:25.055
deal with security management helps a lot.
633
00:48:27.435 --> 00:48:33.170
634
00:48:33.470 --> 00:48:37.924
635
00:48:38.785 --> 00:48:40.484
on what kind of setup you have.
636
00:48:41.505 --> 00:48:49.890
637
00:48:51.310 --> 00:48:53.570
you're adding a new privacy
638
00:48:54.955 --> 00:48:55.455
compromise
639
00:48:56.315 --> 00:49:05.670
vulnerability. I don't you're adding you're you're adding a a It's a paid off. Yeah. You're adding a third party that that knows your transactions and your balances. Right?
640
00:49:06.050 --> 00:49:06.550
And
641
00:49:07.010 --> 00:49:07.910
and, specifically,
642
00:49:11.565 --> 00:49:16.945
you know, that that information can leak, it can get hacked, it can be compelled to be handed over.
643
00:49:18.360 --> 00:49:18.940
You know,
644
00:49:19.560 --> 00:49:23.020
this has been famously called the 61 02 Bitcoin show as well.
645
00:49:24.040 --> 00:49:27.100
61 02, executive order 6102 is when
646
00:49:27.485 --> 00:49:29.425
FDR tried to take people's gold.
647
00:49:30.125 --> 00:49:34.385
They could presumably pressure these companies into providing balances, stuff like that.
648
00:49:36.210 --> 00:49:37.250
It just it it it
649
00:49:38.690 --> 00:49:40.869
it's pretty hard to use Bitcoin privately
650
00:49:42.985 --> 00:49:51.965
as an individual already, but especially if you have to trust the 3rd party with that information. And then, obviously, you have the other concern of of you're just not using your own node.
651
00:49:52.540 --> 00:49:54.880
And if you wanna be a proper self sovereign Bitcoiner
652
00:49:55.340 --> 00:49:58.720
and you want to follow the rules that you choose when you choose,
653
00:50:00.474 --> 00:50:04.335
you're gonna wanna use your own node, and you can't use your own node with both these services.
654
00:50:05.355 --> 00:50:05.855
So
655
00:50:06.555 --> 00:50:08.734
it's it's something to keep in mind, and
656
00:50:09.049 --> 00:50:09.869
it's something
657
00:50:10.650 --> 00:50:11.309
that NVK
658
00:50:11.609 --> 00:50:16.190
has been working on in terms of trying to make a self sovereign version easier,
659
00:50:17.105 --> 00:50:22.005
with with the feature ck bunker, which is basically allows you to basically take hold card,
660
00:50:22.385 --> 00:50:24.485
connect it to something like the nodal,
661
00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:26.900
and and seamlessly
662
00:50:27.200 --> 00:50:29.780
use it as a signer of a multisig.
663
00:50:30.720 --> 00:50:32.020
Should we go into that?
664
00:50:33.145 --> 00:50:33.645
665
00:50:34.825 --> 00:50:36.205
So it's kind of like,
666
00:50:37.545 --> 00:50:38.765
having your own
667
00:50:39.225 --> 00:50:42.045
cosign service. Right? Kinda like having your own Casa.
668
00:50:42.740 --> 00:50:43.240
So,
669
00:50:44.340 --> 00:50:47.960
you you you get your nodal. Right? Because you need a a high availability
670
00:50:48.340 --> 00:50:50.840
computer. Right? So, like, you you want a 247.
671
00:50:51.625 --> 00:50:54.685
Yeah. So you want a computer that's purposely for that,
672
00:50:55.705 --> 00:50:57.145
so and and it's running,
673
00:50:57.465 --> 00:50:59.005
ideally a node. Right?
674
00:51:00.490 --> 00:51:03.470
You don't need to run a node on it, but doesn't hurt.
675
00:51:04.490 --> 00:51:10.655
So anyways, so you have, a c k bunker running on it. Actually, no. You don't need it at all because the
676
00:51:11.195 --> 00:51:11.695
the
677
00:51:12.474 --> 00:51:23.650
the transaction is created by you on your desktop wallet. But, anyways, whatever. So let's say you have Nodo because they they install the the package from from start, so it's turnkey. Turn it on.
678
00:51:24.394 --> 00:51:25.134
You just
679
00:51:25.434 --> 00:51:25.934
add,
680
00:51:26.394 --> 00:51:29.535
a cold card to it via USB, and you put it somewhere.
681
00:51:30.234 --> 00:51:37.480
You set some policies or whatever you want. And then what happens is you have essentially a multisig between your your cold card in your hand
682
00:51:38.099 --> 00:51:40.920
and and a second or third cold card
683
00:51:41.235 --> 00:51:45.735
that is connected to the node that was signed based on some policy
684
00:51:46.035 --> 00:51:47.015
like maximum,
685
00:51:47.795 --> 00:51:49.575
1 per week or whatever,
686
00:51:51.250 --> 00:51:51.730
and,
687
00:51:52.089 --> 00:51:57.510
and that's really cool, right, because you have essentially a cosign service that is yours that you control,
688
00:51:58.955 --> 00:52:01.375
that nobody has visibility to the coins,
689
00:52:01.995 --> 00:52:06.420
and it's like fairly safe and secure because there's a cold card running on that.
690
00:52:09.460 --> 00:52:19.405
Made a video, a couple of videos I think already on it. So if people wanna understand more about it, I highly recommend going there. Kito, what are your thoughts on this? When are you gonna integrate CK bunker
691
00:52:20.105 --> 00:52:23.565
692
00:52:24.970 --> 00:52:26.349
Hopefully, very soon,
693
00:52:26.730 --> 00:52:31.630
I have everything I need to do that now. So, yeah, it should should happen in the coming weeks.
694
00:52:32.255 --> 00:52:35.555
I just want to make it in a meaningful way, meaning, like,
695
00:52:36.015 --> 00:52:37.235
some level of configurations
696
00:52:37.535 --> 00:52:38.755
through the another UI.
697
00:52:39.930 --> 00:52:42.430
I don't know yet what's possible, what's not.
698
00:52:44.570 --> 00:52:48.510
And, also, I have a prototype of a hosted version of
699
00:52:49.905 --> 00:52:51.925
c k bunker farm. So
700
00:52:52.305 --> 00:52:57.845
let's assume you don't want to have it at home and prefer to have it in a secure data center somewhere.
701
00:52:59.240 --> 00:53:06.380
You could send us your cold card with the policies set on it, and we would just put it in a chassis with a
702
00:53:06.835 --> 00:53:07.335
small
703
00:53:07.955 --> 00:53:14.055
dedicated, server that will be connected to it, and and you will be able to remotely access to double top.
704
00:53:16.110 --> 00:53:17.090
705
00:53:18.190 --> 00:53:20.530
706
00:53:21.230 --> 00:53:21.730
707
00:53:22.110 --> 00:53:24.735
It's like it it really is the next, like,
708
00:53:25.215 --> 00:53:29.955
that is the direction. Right? Like, it's gonna take some time to get all this thing done easier,
709
00:53:31.225 --> 00:53:31.725
but
710
00:53:32.839 --> 00:53:35.740
I I cannot see a world where we don't go in that direction.
711
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:38.059
712
00:53:39.079 --> 00:53:42.895
I like this idea of of of user friendly,
713
00:53:45.195 --> 00:53:49.855
UX config like, I I feel like user friendly UX, like, kind of starts with the hardware.
714
00:53:50.220 --> 00:53:52.000
And if we have different,
715
00:53:53.900 --> 00:53:55.520
we can minimize trust
716
00:53:56.380 --> 00:53:56.880
by
717
00:53:57.964 --> 00:54:05.425
having multiple hardware providers interact with each other so that you're not relying on any individual hardware provider,
718
00:54:06.125 --> 00:54:07.265
in a way that
719
00:54:07.900 --> 00:54:09.040
that still prioritizes
720
00:54:09.340 --> 00:54:12.640
UX just like he just like he just said. I mean, I
721
00:54:13.420 --> 00:54:18.464
I go back to thinking, you know, my service final message dot I o. I kept coming to the issue
722
00:54:19.005 --> 00:54:19.984
that I was wondering,
723
00:54:21.405 --> 00:54:31.440
I I kept coming to the issue where it was, like, you know, it's a dead man switch, and the the biggest concern is it's encrypted, so I can't see what it is. But the biggest concern is, do I actually send the message?
724
00:54:31.980 --> 00:54:53.815
When the time comes, do I send the message? And I could go down a 1000000 different rabbit holes about trying to solve that issue, but it's solved by just having 2 redundant forms of doing that. And then you just you you don't have to trust either one. You just have to trust that one of the 2, like, actually sends it out. And this is kind of a similar situation, right, where you have these 2 pieces of user friendly hardware, you combine them together,
725
00:54:55.315 --> 00:54:58.454
and and you you basically need both of them to collude
726
00:54:58.820 --> 00:55:00.600
to to lose funds. Right?
727
00:55:02.100 --> 00:55:07.240
728
00:55:07.565 --> 00:55:09.345
like, good luck to the bad guy.
729
00:55:10.045 --> 00:55:12.785
I mean, seriously. Right? Right. It becomes
730
00:55:13.805 --> 00:55:18.150
it's not a matter of becoming impossible because nothing is impossible. It's a matter of becoming impractical.
731
00:55:18.450 --> 00:55:19.910
Right? Or or the cost
732
00:55:20.290 --> 00:55:26.069
of either actual cost or or time cost for the attacker becomes completely impractical.
733
00:55:26.865 --> 00:55:36.380
734
00:55:36.839 --> 00:55:47.265
735
00:55:47.805 --> 00:55:51.710
particularly. But, yeah, usually, the attackers are pretty dumb, but they will just
736
00:55:52.190 --> 00:56:00.210
737
00:56:01.325 --> 00:56:03.105
to the next victim, right,
738
00:56:06.765 --> 00:56:13.700
or or or they're gonna have to, like or or you're so so much wealth, so much wealth,
739
00:56:14.160 --> 00:56:21.825
then then it's a different story. Then maybe the cost of attack just becomes so great that they might just, like, you know, they probably just knock on your door and kidnap you. Right?
740
00:56:22.325 --> 00:56:22.825
Like,
741
00:56:23.325 --> 00:56:26.910
no. Seriously. It's like it gets to that point, but then even if they kidnap you,
742
00:56:27.309 --> 00:56:28.609
you know, you don't have,
743
00:56:29.950 --> 00:56:30.849
signing capabilities.
744
00:56:31.549 --> 00:56:32.609
Right. So,
745
00:56:32.910 --> 00:56:33.410
you
746
00:56:33.710 --> 00:56:38.005
know, that's sort of, like, the goal that we have with cold card in general. It's like, how can we get to a point,
747
00:56:39.825 --> 00:56:43.845
in some setups already there where it's like, there's nothing I can do.
748
00:56:44.470 --> 00:56:48.010
749
00:56:48.549 --> 00:56:52.490
a very happy customer of of both Nodl and, CoinKite
750
00:56:52.885 --> 00:56:58.025
is because I feel like you guys are both paranoid Bitcoiners along with me. So I I can count on the fact
751
00:56:58.485 --> 00:57:02.265
that I have your paranoia additive on top of my paranoia.
752
00:57:02.790 --> 00:57:05.050
You're actually thinking about these kind of issues.
753
00:57:07.750 --> 00:57:08.710
754
00:57:09.965 --> 00:57:14.145
oh, that's actually a good, a good segue into a feature we're launching.
755
00:57:14.605 --> 00:57:16.685
756
00:57:17.609 --> 00:57:18.670
757
00:57:19.769 --> 00:57:20.269
seedxor.
758
00:57:22.650 --> 00:57:24.029
It's gonna be seedxor.com.
759
00:57:26.194 --> 00:57:28.375
If you go now there, there's just a picture
760
00:57:28.915 --> 00:57:31.655
and, something saying coming soon for info.
761
00:57:32.435 --> 00:57:36.339
I was like, this was not meant to be announced or preannounced or any of that shit.
762
00:57:36.720 --> 00:57:38.339
It's gonna come Welcome to dispatch.
763
00:57:38.640 --> 00:57:40.900
Yeah. It's gonna probably come on the next firmware version.
764
00:57:41.440 --> 00:57:45.984
We were hoping to do it this week, but, you know, being too swamped, so we'll see.
765
00:57:46.525 --> 00:57:48.145
So so the idea here is
766
00:57:48.924 --> 00:57:49.424
essentially,
767
00:57:52.250 --> 00:57:56.750
what's the problem? The problem is you have a seed backup. What the fuck do you do that seed?
768
00:57:57.905 --> 00:58:00.245
Right? Like, where do you put it? Right?
769
00:58:00.545 --> 00:58:02.245
Anyone that gets hold of that,
770
00:58:03.025 --> 00:58:05.205
has access to the to the master secret.
771
00:58:05.530 --> 00:58:06.030
Right?
772
00:58:06.490 --> 00:58:08.910
Aside from passphrase and stuff, it's still a problem.
773
00:58:09.530 --> 00:58:16.755
So, you know, you can't put in safe deposit boxes because safe deposit boxes can be a a commandeer. Safe. Right?
774
00:58:18.255 --> 00:58:23.234
You know, if you're clearing name. Yeah. But but, you know, but if you still have some good
775
00:58:25.300 --> 00:58:25.800
custody,
776
00:58:26.420 --> 00:58:30.440
chain of custody. Right? They're not bad. It's just that the trade offs exist.
777
00:58:31.300 --> 00:58:33.320
You know, you don't wanna bury a seed
778
00:58:33.645 --> 00:58:36.945
depending on where because if he gets found, it's a problem.
779
00:58:38.605 --> 00:58:43.025
So so it gets tricky. Right? What do you do with that clear tax secret?
780
00:58:44.349 --> 00:58:44.589
So,
781
00:58:45.470 --> 00:58:56.765
you know, traditionally, what do we do as computer people? Well, we offer you the encrypted micro SD, so you can put that you know, microSD, and then you put it in safety deposit box or something. Right?
782
00:58:57.225 --> 00:58:58.525
The problem with that is
783
00:58:58.985 --> 00:59:00.685
that is sort of like computer,
784
00:59:01.720 --> 00:59:04.540
it's a computer problem. Right? So you need,
785
00:59:05.320 --> 00:59:08.620
you need a computer to encrypt that or decrypt that or a cold card.
786
00:59:09.240 --> 00:59:09.740
And
787
00:59:10.085 --> 00:59:21.280
and if you put a micro encrypted a micro SD in a safe deposit box, you could still have a an order to produce by a judge that essentially says if you don't decrypt that thing, you go to jail. Well, not in America,
788
00:59:21.740 --> 00:59:27.195
but in the UK, you definitely can. Yeah. But it it depends on the country. It depends on the considerations, but whatever.
789
00:59:28.395 --> 00:59:35.135
Now what are we doing then? Let's create more plausible, deniable solutions. Right? That's our motto now.
790
00:59:36.395 --> 00:59:36.895
So
791
00:59:37.640 --> 00:59:39.260
what I wanted to do was,
792
00:59:39.560 --> 00:59:40.460
can I create
793
00:59:40.840 --> 00:59:41.740
an encrypted,
794
00:59:43.640 --> 00:59:46.140
metal plate that is human
795
00:59:46.835 --> 00:59:47.335
readable,
796
00:59:47.955 --> 00:59:50.215
right, and is plausible, deniable?
797
00:59:51.475 --> 00:59:52.775
So what do we do?
798
00:59:53.450 --> 00:59:57.790
We essentially get you to generate 2 sets of 24 words,
799
00:59:58.090 --> 01:00:03.555
okay, just like a seed, it's BIP39 based, and then we XOR them together,
800
01:00:04.415 --> 01:00:09.955
and we create a new seed for you that is also 24 words, exactly BIP 39 compliant.
801
01:00:10.310 --> 01:00:12.090
So now you essentially have 3 plates
802
01:00:13.430 --> 01:00:16.890
803
01:00:17.805 --> 01:00:18.305
Exactly.
804
01:00:19.484 --> 01:00:21.425
So And all 3 plates are
805
01:00:22.045 --> 01:00:27.560
806
01:00:28.100 --> 01:00:28.840
807
01:00:29.220 --> 01:00:32.280
808
01:00:32.820 --> 01:00:34.200
the, you can like
809
01:00:34.565 --> 01:00:43.785
say you have you make a a 2 plates. You're gonna be able to make up to, like, 10 plates or whatever, but, like, let's say you're normal and you do just 2. Right? So you do 2 plates,
810
01:00:44.859 --> 01:00:46.400
each of these plates have,
811
01:00:46.700 --> 01:00:52.640
what we'll call part of the secret. Right? So it's 2 parts, but each of them look like a full,
812
01:00:53.685 --> 01:00:54.585
BIP 3924,
813
01:00:57.205 --> 01:00:57.445
pass
814
01:00:58.005 --> 01:00:58.505
24,
815
01:00:59.125 --> 01:01:00.265
word seed
816
01:01:00.820 --> 01:01:03.560
with checksum, everything. It's it's a literal
817
01:01:04.100 --> 01:01:06.600
BIP 39 proper seed. Right?
818
01:01:07.300 --> 01:01:12.605
And then you can put put 1 in one safe deposit box. You put 1 in another safe deposit box in a different country.
819
01:01:13.305 --> 01:01:16.605
Right? And then and then the cold card
820
01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:18.820
lets you input both,
821
01:01:19.520 --> 01:01:20.180
to calculate
822
01:01:20.480 --> 01:01:21.619
the actual XOR,
823
01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:22.900
XOR seed.
824
01:01:23.200 --> 01:01:23.700
Right?
825
01:01:24.400 --> 01:01:26.660
Also, if you're this is the key,
826
01:01:27.255 --> 01:01:28.875
like awesome thing about this.
827
01:01:29.415 --> 01:01:33.195
Everybody already has a fucking seed. Right? And you don't wanna move your funds.
828
01:01:33.734 --> 01:01:37.540
So what do you do? Well, with the new firmware, you go into
829
01:01:38.720 --> 01:01:40.660
the specific menu and you're gonna say
830
01:01:41.040 --> 01:01:42.180
split my seed.
831
01:01:42.694 --> 01:01:46.234
So what it's gonna do, it's gonna give you 2 sets of 24 words
832
01:01:47.174 --> 01:01:50.234
to create the 2 plates that are scrambled essentially
833
01:01:51.029 --> 01:01:52.890
so that you can just go and back up that.
834
01:01:53.190 --> 01:02:02.655
835
01:02:02.955 --> 01:02:04.655
836
01:02:05.329 --> 01:02:06.369
Right. It's,
837
01:02:06.930 --> 01:02:10.069
but but you can still have a normal
838
01:02:11.170 --> 01:02:14.790
seed plate with your actual full seed on it too if you want.
839
01:02:15.235 --> 01:02:21.495
Right? And you can bury that under a lake where it's essentially impossible to get unless you absolutely need to. Right?
840
01:02:22.010 --> 01:02:30.829
841
01:02:31.605 --> 01:02:33.944
many cold cards with the paper
842
01:02:34.565 --> 01:02:35.545
backup seeds.
843
01:02:36.085 --> 01:02:44.590
844
01:02:44.890 --> 01:02:56.315
845
01:02:56.890 --> 01:03:08.005
then if if you find a plate, you're just gonna think, like, oh, like, I found Matt's coin. Right? And and you'll just be done with it. You won't even think it's a multisig. I mean, unless you listen to Siddle dispatch episode 19,
846
01:03:08.385 --> 01:03:10.725
you won't even think that that's a possibility.
847
01:03:11.185 --> 01:03:19.480
848
01:03:20.580 --> 01:03:26.855
849
01:03:27.155 --> 01:03:27.895
850
01:03:28.595 --> 01:03:30.775
851
01:03:31.090 --> 01:03:39.190
For the record, I tried to get, NVK to tease this for me, and he wouldn't tease it for me ahead of time. So I'm learning about this live on air for all you guys.
852
01:03:39.765 --> 01:03:40.265
853
01:03:41.125 --> 01:03:48.184
So so the the the the the main idea now that we're really focused on with this plausible deniable stuff
854
01:03:48.619 --> 01:03:49.920
is we wanna increase
855
01:03:50.540 --> 01:03:51.359
the attack,
856
01:03:52.540 --> 01:03:57.839
surface complexity for the attackers. Right? We wanna make sure that there's just so an absolute,
857
01:03:58.685 --> 01:03:59.825
like, tsunami
858
01:04:00.365 --> 01:04:01.185
of options
859
01:04:01.645 --> 01:04:02.625
for users
860
01:04:02.925 --> 01:04:03.585
to use.
861
01:04:04.125 --> 01:04:05.185
So an attacker
862
01:04:05.485 --> 01:04:15.790
that is a little bit more sophisticated that can get to you to begin with. Right? He's gonna be aware that if you have a cold car, there is, like, a 100 different permutations
863
01:04:16.250 --> 01:04:18.234
or, like, 300 permutations
864
01:04:18.775 --> 01:04:21.915
of of of ways in which this person could be doing their
865
01:04:22.455 --> 01:04:24.610
their Bitcoin y. Right? So
866
01:04:25.070 --> 01:04:26.770
it's it's essentially overwhelming
867
01:04:27.070 --> 01:04:28.530
one to know. Oh,
868
01:04:29.070 --> 01:04:40.785
come on. I know you have a passphrase, put the passphrase. Right? So so, like, that's not the answer for everything. Right? You you need well, he might have a pass phrase plus this, plus that, plus this, plus that. Right?
869
01:04:41.485 --> 01:04:42.225
And Right.
870
01:04:42.615 --> 01:04:47.280
871
01:04:47.920 --> 01:04:56.565
872
01:04:57.025 --> 01:05:14.755
873
01:05:15.695 --> 01:05:16.515
That's dope.
874
01:05:16.815 --> 01:05:20.559
Okay. I'm a fan. I'm a fan, bro. This is a cool feature. I like this feature.
875
01:05:21.339 --> 01:05:26.319
876
01:05:27.019 --> 01:05:28.125
countdown to brick,
877
01:05:29.485 --> 01:05:31.185
which is my absolute favor.
878
01:05:31.485 --> 01:05:37.985
879
01:05:38.310 --> 01:05:39.450
880
01:05:39.750 --> 01:05:43.450
So so the bad guy so you're telling the bad guy that, hey.
881
01:05:43.830 --> 01:05:54.585
Okay. Fine. I give up. Right? I you you put the pin, but you put a special pin, and that special pin is gonna show the bad guy that it's gonna take 24 hours for you to be able to sign it, right?
882
01:05:55.890 --> 01:05:59.910
And then in the background of that, we are essentially erasing your seed, and
883
01:06:01.250 --> 01:06:04.309
and if he gets to the end of the countdown, it just shows brick.
884
01:06:05.305 --> 01:06:07.244
Right, shows air, so
885
01:06:07.785 --> 01:06:09.244
what's cool about that is,
886
01:06:09.625 --> 01:06:11.165
unlike the normal countdown,
887
01:06:12.070 --> 01:06:15.370
the attacker could try to take the device to a lab afterwards,
888
01:06:15.750 --> 01:06:22.005
and, you know, spend a quarter $1,000,000 trying to get the money out, Right? On this one, if he takes it, the seed was erased.
889
01:06:24.065 --> 01:06:26.725
So you can say, okay. You know what? Take it with you
890
01:06:27.200 --> 01:06:32.660
24 hours. You know, you put it in a battery pack. You give it to the guy. 24 hours, they're gonna be able to sign it. Right?
891
01:06:34.160 --> 01:06:35.060
It's a brick.
892
01:06:35.965 --> 01:06:37.105
893
01:06:39.965 --> 01:06:49.170
894
01:06:50.430 --> 01:06:53.250
895
01:06:53.755 --> 01:06:55.694
as an As long as you have proper backup.
896
01:06:56.315 --> 01:07:01.055
Yeah. As someone who's been, like, working on education, like, you know, maybe for pros, but I
897
01:07:02.310 --> 01:07:07.770
898
01:07:08.724 --> 01:07:14.185
899
01:07:14.565 --> 01:07:15.545
900
01:07:15.845 --> 01:07:16.825
at some point,
901
01:07:18.120 --> 01:07:18.440
say,
902
01:07:19.240 --> 01:07:20.780
something like a BIP 39v2
903
01:07:21.240 --> 01:07:23.500
is gonna come at some point because
904
01:07:24.175 --> 01:07:26.515
the problem with BIP 39 is that BIP 39,
905
01:07:27.135 --> 01:07:34.609
it's it's essentially, like, too simplistic. Right? It shouldn't have the derivation path built in. Right? Well, that's what descriptors does.
906
01:07:35.309 --> 01:07:44.635
Right. Right? So descriptors solve that problem. The problem is descriptors are Bitcoin only. Right? We support descriptors, but the other wallets don't because they're all shitcoin companies. Right?
907
01:07:45.415 --> 01:07:48.555
908
01:07:49.090 --> 01:08:01.025
909
01:08:01.485 --> 01:08:05.905
and and then you have these branches. In each of these branches, you're gonna have different accounts,
910
01:08:07.780 --> 01:08:16.775
but it's all part of the same tree that is part of the same root. But there's, like, infinite branches. Infinite branches. Just like the 3. So, like, if if if you use a nonstandard one It's
911
01:08:18.455 --> 01:08:20.475
912
01:08:20.855 --> 01:08:27.500
like, ridiculous amounts, like, you're never gonna be able to figure out which branch it was. No. No. You can you can be in an infinite, like,
913
01:08:28.039 --> 01:08:28.940
914
01:08:31.320 --> 01:08:41.485
Which people have lost funds that way. I mean, it it becomes so big that is almost the same problem as trying to calculate the private key in the to begin with. Right. Because it's you get infinite numbers. Infinite.
915
01:08:45.160 --> 01:08:52.700
916
01:08:53.095 --> 01:09:03.670
and I'll I'll remind the I'll remind the freaks listening right now. If you're listening to this audio, you wanna go see what's going on live chat because live chat's fun. You know, you wanna see after the fact. You just go to bitcoin tv.com,
917
01:09:04.850 --> 01:09:09.190
and you can you can see this little dispatch channel. All of the all of our past
918
01:09:09.534 --> 01:09:11.474
shows are on there, including this one.
919
01:09:11.855 --> 01:09:17.554
920
01:09:18.028 --> 01:09:24.836
921
01:09:25.355 --> 01:09:31.295
I mean, what, the website doesn't really show much right now. Right? No. But, so just just to the to the freaks that are listening,
922
01:09:31.835 --> 01:09:34.735
it's it's seed, s e e d,
923
01:09:35.210 --> 01:09:35.710
xor.com.
924
01:09:37.370 --> 01:09:39.230
So it's it's literally the letter x,
925
01:09:40.010 --> 01:09:40.510
seedxor.com.
926
01:09:42.250 --> 01:09:42.750
SeedXor.
927
01:09:43.445 --> 01:09:45.305
928
01:09:45.685 --> 01:09:48.425
calculation. Right. Like, it's like a logic gate.
929
01:09:50.860 --> 01:09:52.300
930
01:09:52.699 --> 01:09:53.199
So
931
01:09:54.460 --> 01:09:55.679
all that is fantastic.
932
01:09:56.460 --> 01:10:00.045
You heard it here first on dispatch. This is why we dispatch freaks. 60102.
933
01:10:00.505 --> 01:10:04.764
934
01:10:06.344 --> 01:10:07.635
935
01:10:08.390 --> 01:10:16.970
I just want the Phrees to know, like, this whole idea of punching it with the punch is, like, a very it's a very accessible thing. Like, don't be overwhelmed by punching steel.
936
01:10:17.625 --> 01:10:21.485
937
01:10:22.425 --> 01:10:27.990
938
01:10:28.530 --> 01:10:29.670
939
01:10:30.130 --> 01:10:33.590
940
01:10:34.130 --> 01:10:34.630
941
01:10:35.875 --> 01:10:42.695
942
01:10:44.390 --> 01:10:45.610
Keep it simple. Bitcoin
943
01:10:45.910 --> 01:10:59.945
is smelling a guide. He's the fucking boss. I mean, he might be a his guides are too good. He might be a spook because the guides are just that good. But if if if you're willing to take that risk, go to keep it simple bitcoin.com. He's got a lot of good guides over there.
944
01:11:01.500 --> 01:11:07.760
MVK, I want to not MVK. I love both of you. I'm sorry. I keep mixing you guys up. Keydominer.
945
01:11:10.324 --> 01:11:11.145
Your competitors
946
01:11:11.605 --> 01:11:12.344
your competitors
947
01:11:13.364 --> 01:11:15.224
have every app under the sun.
948
01:11:15.844 --> 01:11:16.905
How do you decide
949
01:11:17.770 --> 01:11:25.150
what is supported on Nodl and what isn't supported on Nodl, and why are we waiting so long for what I want to be supported on Nodl?
950
01:11:28.395 --> 01:11:28.895
951
01:11:29.275 --> 01:11:31.215
we decide is basically,
952
01:11:32.955 --> 01:11:36.990
many factors. First one is is it really useful? Like,
953
01:11:37.850 --> 01:11:38.590
you know,
954
01:11:38.970 --> 01:11:44.350
a lot of times, user just come to you and say, I would like this feature. And
955
01:11:45.235 --> 01:11:50.054
after you spend a considerable amount of time implementing it, you realize that,
956
01:11:50.835 --> 01:11:58.440
1, it doesn't exactly do what the user fault it was doing, or 2, actually, nobody is using it.
957
01:12:00.180 --> 01:12:03.720
So that that's that's one factor. We're trying, like, to really
958
01:12:04.025 --> 01:12:07.885
test things, use them ourselves, see if it's relevant, and,
959
01:12:08.825 --> 01:12:09.645
and then
960
01:12:10.265 --> 01:12:12.970
implement it and deploy it to to everyone.
961
01:12:14.150 --> 01:12:16.410
Just a very recent example.
962
01:12:17.670 --> 01:12:19.290
I wanted to add loop,
963
01:12:19.830 --> 01:12:20.650
to the models.
964
01:12:23.065 --> 01:12:24.525
And, actually, I realized
965
01:12:24.825 --> 01:12:28.205
that lightning terminal is a much better option because
966
01:12:28.905 --> 01:12:29.805
the unofficial
967
01:12:31.670 --> 01:12:34.570
take from Lightning Labs is that the stand alone
968
01:12:35.110 --> 01:12:38.250
applications like Loop, Pool, and and all those
969
01:12:38.870 --> 01:12:40.090
will be, like,
970
01:12:40.465 --> 01:12:46.965
best effort supported. But if you really want the full experience, you should rather use Lightning terminal.
971
01:12:49.080 --> 01:12:54.060
So I think Loop is the first app that survived only one version on another when
972
01:12:54.360 --> 01:12:56.065
it would be removed in the next one.
973
01:12:58.385 --> 01:13:04.660
So, yeah, we we try to avoid this kind of situations. And and another reason an app can be,
974
01:13:05.280 --> 01:13:10.020
not implemented is if it's making a heavy or any, actually, use
975
01:13:10.400 --> 01:13:12.500
of a third party external service.
976
01:13:14.205 --> 01:13:16.945
Luke, again, is a good example, and we are,
977
01:13:18.525 --> 01:13:19.425
we are actually,
978
01:13:20.284 --> 01:13:22.145
forcing users to run it over.
979
01:13:22.780 --> 01:13:25.600
And so the policy now is that any application,
980
01:13:27.740 --> 01:13:33.465
that needs to make any external calls to any external service will be, going through to our only.
981
01:13:36.725 --> 01:13:39.545
Yeah. And and, also, there is a very stupid reason,
982
01:13:39.860 --> 01:13:43.480
which is that there is only one of me, and I have many things to do.
983
01:13:44.500 --> 01:13:46.500
984
01:13:47.715 --> 01:13:50.855
I hit you with the request all the time, and then I just forget about them.
985
01:13:51.235 --> 01:13:52.614
986
01:13:53.474 --> 01:13:57.950
in the in the closest future, you will get lightning terminal. You will get,
987
01:13:58.570 --> 01:14:01.390
an upgrade of all the existing services.
988
01:14:02.775 --> 01:14:08.155
Actually, for once, normal cloud got the upgrades first. For example, the latest BTC RPC Explorer.
989
01:14:10.295 --> 01:14:13.140
990
01:14:13.760 --> 01:14:15.780
991
01:14:16.400 --> 01:14:27.555
until the last version because we we needed it for another cloud for some for some customers. So we we prioritize that. I'm pretty sure I got the first Nautle dojo that's ever existed.
992
01:14:30.360 --> 01:14:37.525
993
01:14:38.965 --> 01:14:39.465
The
994
01:14:40.965 --> 01:14:42.824
so so what I I so
995
01:14:43.125 --> 01:14:44.905
so what I wanted to talk about,
996
01:14:45.685 --> 01:14:46.405
was you
997
01:14:47.120 --> 01:14:49.620
so you had an issue with Lightning
998
01:14:50.080 --> 01:14:50.580
Loop,
999
01:14:51.120 --> 01:14:58.835
right, where you lost funds on Lightning Loop? Like, I feel like No. I thought I thought I did, but they ended up coming back. They came back?
1000
01:14:59.135 --> 01:14:59.635
1001
01:15:00.655 --> 01:15:04.739
Basically, what happened is so it's a it's a stupid mistake from my side.
1002
01:15:06.159 --> 01:15:10.810
We are running a reverse proxy in front of the LND's API on the model,
1003
01:15:12.685 --> 01:15:16.065
for external services, like when you use Zap, for example.
1004
01:15:17.965 --> 01:15:20.305
And my mistake was that
1005
01:15:20.790 --> 01:15:26.170
I was connecting loop locally through that reverse proxy instead of going straight to LNG.
1006
01:15:26.869 --> 01:15:29.775
And that was making loop crash all the time
1007
01:15:30.155 --> 01:15:31.615
and not finishing transactions.
1008
01:15:32.555 --> 01:15:34.735
1009
01:15:36.235 --> 01:15:36.895
1010
01:15:38.350 --> 01:15:42.610
I I know of one other user that got an issue with Luke not,
1011
01:15:43.550 --> 01:15:50.925
giving the funds back, but I think it was solved with, with the proper help from from Lightning Labs. That's good. I mean,
1012
01:15:52.445 --> 01:15:53.105
1013
01:15:53.565 --> 01:15:58.370
is the friend that that we when we're angry at lightning together, we we,
1014
01:15:58.850 --> 01:16:01.750
we reach out to each other. In private, we
1015
01:16:02.325 --> 01:16:06.025
we we we express our frustrations at the current state of things,
1016
01:16:06.645 --> 01:16:10.005
while loving it, at the same time using it all the fucking time. But,
1017
01:16:10.960 --> 01:16:19.619
you know, sometimes you just can't talk about these things as publicly, and I was excited to have him on because that's exactly what we're gonna fucking do.
1018
01:16:21.745 --> 01:16:22.965
Before we get there,
1019
01:16:24.065 --> 01:16:26.805
I wanna talk about your hate for Raspberry Pis.
1020
01:16:27.265 --> 01:16:29.390
So, you know Raspberry Pis.
1021
01:16:30.270 --> 01:16:33.250
There we go. So we got NVK on record also.
1022
01:16:34.590 --> 01:16:36.770
We also have we have NVK on record,
1023
01:16:38.025 --> 01:16:41.245
also telling Raspberry Pi users to fuck themselves,
1024
01:16:41.945 --> 01:16:44.605
or I guess the device specifically to fuck themselves.
1025
01:16:45.440 --> 01:16:50.900
Both. We have a shit ton of freaks here right now that are using raspi nodes, whether that's raspiBlitz
1026
01:16:51.679 --> 01:16:52.500
or Umbral
1027
01:16:54.505 --> 01:16:55.405
or myNode
1028
01:16:56.185 --> 01:16:56.925
or RoninDojo
1029
01:16:58.025 --> 01:17:02.605
or whatever package that I just forgot and I'm gonna get shit about later.
1030
01:17:03.210 --> 01:17:04.510
They're all running raspies.
1031
01:17:05.450 --> 01:17:09.390
Why shouldn't people run raspies? Why doesn't Nodal use raspies?
1032
01:17:10.489 --> 01:17:11.950
Why is the Nodal Dojo
1033
01:17:12.655 --> 01:17:14.114
as expensive as it is?
1034
01:17:14.815 --> 01:17:19.715
1035
01:17:20.050 --> 01:17:22.550
way on the powered compared to other solutions.
1036
01:17:23.170 --> 01:17:26.870
The the r pi threes. Right? Yeah. It was Raspis 3. And,
1037
01:17:27.835 --> 01:17:30.574
the the stock distro was 32 bits,
1038
01:17:31.355 --> 01:17:31.855
which,
1039
01:17:32.235 --> 01:17:34.494
which was coming with its sets of problems.
1040
01:17:37.340 --> 01:17:44.800
The chip on the Raspberry Pi is totally closed and not sold to anyone else than the Raspberry Pi Foundation.
1041
01:17:46.665 --> 01:17:50.925
Actually, there are some projects, like, of custom boards based on the Raspberry,
1042
01:17:51.625 --> 01:17:52.605
chip. And
1043
01:17:53.210 --> 01:17:58.510
what they do is they unsold all the chips from Raspberry because they can't get the chip otherwise.
1044
01:18:01.095 --> 01:18:03.495
They have a weird bootloader. They have,
1045
01:18:04.055 --> 01:18:12.990
Microsoft hypervisor running on the GPU, which is actually bootstrapping the CPU. CPU. There there's a lot of weird things happening on these both. Okay. I
1046
01:18:13.610 --> 01:18:14.990
understand. Not very stable.
1047
01:18:16.005 --> 01:18:21.465
I mean, many power supply issues. Like, if you don't have the perfect power supply, it's crashing all the time.
1048
01:18:23.045 --> 01:18:30.180
But I I mean, personally, I don't have anything against running full nodes on, on the. I my first prototype
1049
01:18:31.695 --> 01:18:32.595
from 2017
1050
01:18:33.055 --> 01:18:37.395
was a Raspice 0, and it was running perfectly for for at least half a year.
1051
01:18:39.960 --> 01:18:42.300
1052
01:18:44.360 --> 01:18:44.860
Disgusting.
1053
01:18:46.840 --> 01:18:49.100
1054
01:18:49.945 --> 01:18:52.125
1055
01:18:52.585 --> 01:18:55.805
1056
01:18:56.600 --> 01:19:00.380
1057
01:19:00.840 --> 01:19:03.659
I didn't know that. It's on by default too.
1058
01:19:04.105 --> 01:19:07.325
1059
01:19:07.945 --> 01:19:10.365
1060
01:19:11.065 --> 01:19:23.165
And aside from the driver, also, the that. The the hardware is absolute shit for the Wi Fi. So what everybody does is put a a Wi Fi card on a Wi Fi enabled device. That's how bad it is.
1061
01:19:23.565 --> 01:19:25.825
1062
01:19:26.845 --> 01:19:34.520
1063
01:19:34.980 --> 01:20:00.505
1064
01:20:01.040 --> 01:20:07.219
If you're a Bitcoiner and can't afford $70, like, how long have you been a Bitcoiner for? Just use a just use a rock 64.
1065
01:20:08.335 --> 01:20:17.730
1066
01:20:18.349 --> 01:20:26.369
But They can afford them. But anybody who has a fucking cell phone that is, like, a a a 1,000,000 times faster computer
1067
01:20:26.695 --> 01:20:32.315
than a Raspberry Pi should be using a rock 64, at least. There is, like, 50 different projects
1068
01:20:32.695 --> 01:20:37.420
that are good. Triggering the chat so much right now. I'm sorry, guys, but fuck raspberry
1069
01:20:38.680 --> 01:20:45.100
1070
01:20:45.565 --> 01:20:46.465
and Zayazaza,
1071
01:20:48.125 --> 01:20:49.905
with with pies are fine.
1072
01:20:51.405 --> 01:20:53.745
1073
01:20:54.390 --> 01:20:56.890
1074
01:20:57.590 --> 01:20:58.730
full nodes for,
1075
01:21:00.230 --> 01:21:04.295
if they're compromised, it's a privacy compromise. Right? It's not a security compromise.
1076
01:21:11.255 --> 01:21:17.320
Routing node, like, if you're gonna run a series routing node, like, you shouldn't run it on a pie. Right? Listen. Rock 64 is great.
1077
01:21:17.780 --> 01:21:21.895
1078
01:21:22.375 --> 01:21:23.115
go look into
1079
01:21:23.495 --> 01:21:24.395
micro microATX
1080
01:21:25.495 --> 01:21:27.355
computers. There's a bunch of, like,
1081
01:21:28.135 --> 01:21:33.370
fanless computers that cost, like, maybe like double Raspberry Pi, but they were gonna
1082
01:21:33.989 --> 01:21:37.210
run forever, and you can run all the model software on them.
1083
01:21:38.630 --> 01:21:39.130
Nobody
1084
01:21:39.905 --> 01:21:44.325
who who who has money to eat should be by a computer that costs less than a $100.
1085
01:21:44.945 --> 01:21:45.685
1086
01:21:46.065 --> 01:21:55.540
Rasp it's cool that it costs less than a $100. That's pretty dope. Like, I'm looking at it. I have 5 of them right there. Like, it's just use it's just like it's cool that I can just buy that to shoot skeet.
1087
01:21:56.935 --> 01:22:08.079
1088
01:22:09.440 --> 01:22:14.925
SD cards are designed for cameras and MP 3 players, which do sequential
1089
01:22:15.304 --> 01:22:16.445
writing and reading.
1090
01:22:16.745 --> 01:22:18.445
They are not designed for a computer
1091
01:22:19.150 --> 01:22:37.370
unless you buy a very, very expensive SD card, which probably doesn't even exist on the market because the the good ones are not big enough to run a full node. That's right. Your SD card will die in a few weeks probably. Yep. I I I bought this HTC Exodus phone. I put a $200
1092
01:22:37.750 --> 01:22:39.050
SD card in it.
1093
01:22:39.830 --> 01:22:48.145
1094
01:22:48.525 --> 01:22:51.585
you cannot find cards that have proper error correction,
1095
01:22:51.940 --> 01:22:54.360
and you cannot do SD type memory,
1096
01:22:55.059 --> 01:23:00.039
right, flash memory without error correction for read and write like drives.
1097
01:23:00.420 --> 01:23:01.400
It's not like
1098
01:23:01.975 --> 01:23:05.435
this is just a camera saving pictures that does that very precisely.
1099
01:23:05.735 --> 01:23:08.635
The cameras are very good at doing that just for that.
1100
01:23:09.630 --> 01:23:13.650
SD cards were not designed to be read, write, like, hard drives.
1101
01:23:14.030 --> 01:23:16.130
They will break very fast.
1102
01:23:19.764 --> 01:23:22.505
Yes, Martin. I have standards. Fuck Raspberry Pi.
1103
01:23:23.125 --> 01:23:35.890
1104
01:23:38.195 --> 01:23:39.255
side, and maybe
1105
01:23:39.715 --> 01:23:43.255
a little bit of Asia on the opposite side. We have, like, the
1106
01:23:43.580 --> 01:23:48.080
the late night Asian crowd versus the early day Asian crowd.
1107
01:23:48.860 --> 01:23:52.700
It's pretty crazy just, like, thinking about time zones and thinking about global
1108
01:23:53.145 --> 01:23:59.085
like, how global the space is, like, when I'm trying to decide when this stream goes out every Bitcoin Tuesday.
1109
01:24:00.430 --> 01:24:07.730
So that's just that's just a cool concept. I think this is the fact that we have them berating us in the live chat while we're going,
1110
01:24:08.805 --> 01:24:13.465
is very unique to this show that that's just automatically broadcast. No one is,
1111
01:24:16.380 --> 01:24:30.554
yeah. I mean, like, fuck censorship and shit. I mean, like, I I just obviously, MBK disagrees with me on this, but I don't block people. I don't mute people. So I'm glad this is. Well, Matt, it's just because you're not a time maximalist yet. You will learn that in time. You're a young grasshopper.
1112
01:24:31.335 --> 01:24:32.635
We'll see. So
1113
01:24:33.110 --> 01:24:34.650
before we wrap up that topic,
1114
01:24:35.750 --> 01:24:44.264
thank you all you freaks for keeping us honest. Before we wrap up this topic, I mean, do you want to mention who you're talking about when you talk about SD cards? Because they were just on the show,
1115
01:24:45.445 --> 01:24:48.620
2 episodes ago, and that's my dog reminding us who they were.
1116
01:24:49.420 --> 01:24:53.520
1117
01:24:54.460 --> 01:25:06.525
1118
01:25:07.290 --> 01:25:11.310
I I think the biggest concern comes down to if you're using it with lightning.
1119
01:25:11.770 --> 01:25:13.470
Because if you're using it with lightning
1120
01:25:13.850 --> 01:25:18.405
and you that SD card fails, what you're gonna end up with is a static channel backup.
1121
01:25:19.025 --> 01:25:20.405
The static channel backup
1122
01:25:20.864 --> 01:25:22.565
forces you to close your channels.
1123
01:25:23.950 --> 01:25:27.010
So you do recover your funds to your seed,
1124
01:25:27.630 --> 01:25:29.090
your secret backup words,
1125
01:25:29.470 --> 01:25:35.385
but you do so in a way that you lose all your channels. And in a high fee environment, that could really fuck you.
1126
01:25:36.725 --> 01:25:46.505
If if if if fees are high, you're gonna end up spending a ton of money in on chain fees. You're gonna lose the reputation of your node, and then you're gonna have to start start fresh.
1127
01:25:48.245 --> 01:25:50.905
That said, you're only losing transaction fees.
1128
01:25:51.445 --> 01:25:52.745
And if you don't use Lightning,
1129
01:25:53.390 --> 01:25:57.650
I would say it's probably less of a risk. If you have strong backups, if you're backing up onto
1130
01:25:58.190 --> 01:25:59.330
a USB drive,
1131
01:26:00.430 --> 01:26:07.554
probably less of a risk. I still think SSD is better just to, like, have a proper SSD, and I think they do agree and they're gonna do that soon.
1132
01:26:08.255 --> 01:26:09.795
1133
01:26:10.300 --> 01:26:10.800
I
1134
01:26:11.659 --> 01:26:14.640
I guess they ship precinct like we all do,
1135
01:26:15.340 --> 01:26:20.875
because if you try to sync on an SD card, you will never manage to go that. Yeah.
1136
01:26:21.495 --> 01:26:23.755
1137
01:26:24.429 --> 01:26:27.810
it's it's still verified. Right? Like, the chain is still verified
1138
01:26:28.190 --> 01:26:29.010
per the rules.
1139
01:26:32.155 --> 01:26:35.055
1140
01:26:36.795 --> 01:26:37.295
drive
1141
01:26:37.755 --> 01:26:38.495
that fits
1142
01:26:39.035 --> 01:26:39.695
a node
1143
01:26:40.160 --> 01:26:44.900
going on 1 terabyte now. You gotta do 1 terabyte? How much are they going for these days?
1144
01:26:46.240 --> 01:26:46.740
38?
1145
01:26:47.120 --> 01:26:51.015
1146
01:26:52.035 --> 01:26:59.060
SATA SSDs because they just came out. And, actually, that explained finally why we had trouble getting the 8 sixties.
1147
01:27:00.719 --> 01:27:04.739
They go for less than a $100 now for 1 So, like, 80. Right?
1148
01:27:05.145 --> 01:27:07.245
Is it possible? It's â¬100
1149
01:27:07.705 --> 01:27:10.925
here including tax, so I guess it's, like, 80, $90.
1150
01:27:11.625 --> 01:27:22.079
1151
01:27:23.105 --> 01:27:42.034
1152
01:27:42.354 --> 01:27:50.520
1153
01:27:51.060 --> 01:27:55.080
And they had these very low power, 2 and a half inch hard drives.
1154
01:27:56.595 --> 01:27:57.415
They were, like,
1155
01:27:58.035 --> 01:28:02.055
3,000 RPM, like, slower than anything you will ever find in a computer,
1156
01:28:02.595 --> 01:28:05.940
and it was basically taking longer than a micro SD.
1157
01:28:06.400 --> 01:28:09.860
1158
01:28:10.775 --> 01:28:13.275
that can they think that they owe me considerable
1159
01:28:13.575 --> 01:28:14.075
favor
1160
01:28:14.455 --> 01:28:16.795
because I approached them, and I was like, I can
1161
01:28:17.175 --> 01:28:19.675
make your computer better, and I just replaced their
1162
01:28:20.300 --> 01:28:22.780
spinning disk with an SSD. That's all I did.
1163
01:28:23.100 --> 01:28:32.844
And I I just I fucking did it. They're like, oh my god. You're a fucking god. Like, no one should fucking use spinning disk. Yeah. The the SSD is the best upgrade you can get for any computer.
1164
01:28:33.465 --> 01:28:34.765
1165
01:28:35.465 --> 01:28:35.784
the
1166
01:28:36.780 --> 01:28:38.160
how do they call these things?
1167
01:28:40.300 --> 01:28:42.560
OnLogic has them. It's called
1168
01:28:43.020 --> 01:28:44.560
it's a Celeron based,
1169
01:28:45.465 --> 01:28:47.965
but it's like a special fanless board.
1170
01:28:50.105 --> 01:29:01.620
1171
01:29:01.954 --> 01:29:02.994
1172
01:29:03.875 --> 01:29:07.574
stuff. I sent a link on the private chat for, for security.
1173
01:29:08.195 --> 01:29:09.815
1174
01:29:10.440 --> 01:29:10.940
play
1175
01:29:11.320 --> 01:29:17.660
with this. I think it's mini series. But some j series, definitely. I I have a few few
1176
01:29:18.040 --> 01:29:19.345
home built things
1177
01:29:19.805 --> 01:29:25.905
on top of that. But, actually, I'm rather looking in the latest generation of embedded Ryzen from AMD.
1178
01:29:26.525 --> 01:29:27.345
1179
01:29:27.950 --> 01:29:42.335
1180
01:29:44.180 --> 01:29:46.040
Not saying that there is a next
1181
01:29:46.500 --> 01:29:47.000
86,
1182
01:29:47.300 --> 01:29:47.800
64
1183
01:29:48.180 --> 01:29:51.080
AMD based model coming anytime soon.
1184
01:29:51.495 --> 01:29:55.755
Oh. But it's definitely something we are looking at for the
1185
01:29:56.215 --> 01:30:00.315
1186
01:30:01.420 --> 01:30:06.260
The we're, Enrique, do you want me to should I put this up on the screen? What is the
1187
01:30:07.380 --> 01:30:11.245
The OnLogic or the Yeah. The OnLogic. Do you want me to put that on the screen? Or
1188
01:30:13.405 --> 01:30:18.889
1189
01:30:19.190 --> 01:30:20.650
Yeah. If you do, like, 386,
1190
01:30:21.030 --> 01:30:21.530
like
1191
01:30:21.909 --> 01:30:26.945
so on logic, they used to call, logic Supplies. These guys are great.
1192
01:30:27.405 --> 01:30:29.105
Really, really professional outfit.
1193
01:30:30.045 --> 01:30:32.625
If you go, Matt, click on, computers.
1194
01:30:33.320 --> 01:30:36.540
1195
01:30:37.240 --> 01:30:39.180
1196
01:30:39.560 --> 01:30:43.795
1197
01:30:44.175 --> 01:30:46.435
1198
01:30:46.815 --> 01:30:49.235
and then click on fan list computers logic.
1199
01:30:49.614 --> 01:30:50.114
Yeah.
1200
01:30:51.300 --> 01:30:54.519
1201
01:30:55.139 --> 01:31:01.344
They're all fanless. Everything there is fanless. It's a Swiss company that makes, like, rather firewall oriented,
1202
01:31:01.965 --> 01:31:11.620
1203
01:31:12.800 --> 01:31:19.695
1204
01:31:20.155 --> 01:31:20.975
hardware now.
1205
01:31:21.995 --> 01:31:29.900
We the we have some small scale model rack prototype, actually. We have 2 of those in 1, in a one rack unit,
1206
01:31:30.760 --> 01:31:31.260
chassis.
1207
01:31:32.375 --> 01:31:37.275
So you you get full redundancy inside the low power, like, 30 watts,
1208
01:31:38.695 --> 01:31:39.195
server.
1209
01:31:43.740 --> 01:31:49.600
1210
01:31:52.205 --> 01:31:52.365
industrial,
1211
01:31:53.005 --> 01:31:55.745
like, boards that were we potted the whole board,
1212
01:31:57.245 --> 01:31:58.625
the whole computer board,
1213
01:32:00.650 --> 01:32:02.750
in that case, like, in a fanless case.
1214
01:32:03.690 --> 01:32:05.310
It was it was pretty cool stuff.
1215
01:32:05.770 --> 01:32:10.655
1216
01:32:11.275 --> 01:32:14.974
told me that we should add a kill switch in the model. Yeah.
1217
01:32:16.210 --> 01:32:17.670
1218
01:32:18.530 --> 01:32:19.670
1219
01:32:21.730 --> 01:32:29.315
Oh, the Nodal one has the kill switch as well. Now now the Nodal one ships with the kill switch and for this encryption as well. So this idea is is
1220
01:32:29.695 --> 01:32:38.950
1221
01:32:41.525 --> 01:32:42.025
1222
01:32:42.885 --> 01:32:50.930
impossible case that someone would steal your device while it's connected to the power and try to freeze the memory to extract the encryption keys,
1223
01:32:52.670 --> 01:32:55.730
before they manage to open the case, the
1224
01:32:56.030 --> 01:32:58.835
memory will have the power cut and,
1225
01:32:59.135 --> 01:33:03.235
the keys won't be there anyway. Right. Yeah. That's that cold boot attack.
1226
01:33:03.615 --> 01:33:06.835
1227
01:33:08.260 --> 01:33:10.100
1228
01:33:10.500 --> 01:33:11.320
cold cards,
1229
01:33:11.620 --> 01:33:20.264
to your c k bunker to your another, you can actually put the cold card inside of the case. So the power to the cold card will be cut as well. Yep.
1230
01:33:20.965 --> 01:33:21.864
1231
01:33:22.565 --> 01:33:26.719
1232
01:33:28.060 --> 01:33:28.880
1233
01:33:31.180 --> 01:33:44.909
Yeah. I mean, the kill switch is a a really cool concept, and then you have the raid. Right? So, like, not only like, we were talking about the issues with SD card. Not only do you have one SSD in the Nautilus, you have 2. Right? So one is mirroring the other.
1234
01:33:45.449 --> 01:33:53.455
1235
01:33:55.835 --> 01:33:56.335
actually
1236
01:33:56.715 --> 01:34:06.690
have only one SSD, but the it's configured in a way that if you add an external one, you can make a RAID one with the internal and the external SSDs.
1237
01:34:07.310 --> 01:34:10.849
1238
01:34:11.375 --> 01:34:14.995
full disk encrypted. I think everything else is, like, individual.
1239
01:34:15.775 --> 01:34:18.435
1240
01:34:18.989 --> 01:34:25.570
nobody should be running any computer of any kind without at least basic full disk encryption.
1241
01:34:26.510 --> 01:34:27.010
Like,
1242
01:34:27.745 --> 01:34:30.725
there is absolutely no reason for that.
1243
01:34:33.025 --> 01:34:39.230
1244
01:34:39.610 --> 01:34:41.389
physical access to the computer.
1245
01:34:41.929 --> 01:34:45.885
They're they're holding the computer in their hand. The computer is in front of them. Yep.
1246
01:34:46.425 --> 01:34:49.165
1247
01:34:49.945 --> 01:34:51.005
1248
01:34:51.545 --> 01:34:53.870
well, I mean I'm like, fuck you, Enrique.
1249
01:34:54.270 --> 01:35:02.210
1250
01:35:03.335 --> 01:35:06.875
1251
01:35:07.415 --> 01:35:22.975
not a masturbation Bitcoin discussion. Because Linux is a shitcoin. So, see, Bitcoin related now. This is why this idea of a kill switch, this idea of full disk encryption is why when they hit Dread Pirate Roberts, they hit him in the library
1252
01:35:23.675 --> 01:35:24.975
while he was accessing,
1253
01:35:26.074 --> 01:35:36.390
Silk Road. This is why when they hit the b d c e guy, they ran through his driveway gate while he was on his computer, and then he ran outside in his robe
1254
01:35:36.690 --> 01:35:47.989
angry at them. And then they ran inside, and he was still signed into his computer, and it wasn't off. If that computer's off, then all of a sudden they have to brute force his encryption password. If it's a strong encryption password,
1255
01:35:48.449 --> 01:35:54.405
you could be the mightiest government in the world. You're not gonna fucking get into that encryption password. Well, it's complicated
1256
01:35:54.945 --> 01:36:14.974
1257
01:36:15.355 --> 01:36:22.690
But but but the thing the problem with this encryption in general is that if you're not running, say, free BSD and building from source,
1258
01:36:24.110 --> 01:36:35.474
it's possible that whatever package you're using to do that encryption could be compromised, but that but that's like we're talking about, like, like, a a much deeper sort of, like, tinfoil hat and
1259
01:36:35.934 --> 01:36:40.760
and partly reason too on why people shouldn't use general purpose computers for,
1260
01:36:41.460 --> 01:36:43.159
like, you know, as hardware.
1261
01:36:43.460 --> 01:36:44.120
Right? Like,
1262
01:36:44.500 --> 01:36:48.040
it's because of that. There is a massive stack of stuff
1263
01:36:48.385 --> 01:36:50.485
that you can't possibly verify.
1264
01:36:50.865 --> 01:36:57.765
There is smaller packages that are harder to use, but anyways, so so it goes into that deep rabbit hole about that.
1265
01:37:01.800 --> 01:37:05.720
1266
01:37:06.625 --> 01:37:10.405
I figured that with all the system d and all
1267
01:37:10.945 --> 01:37:12.645
the launching metals on Linux,
1268
01:37:13.025 --> 01:37:15.205
which piss me off, I would be switching
1269
01:37:15.585 --> 01:37:16.324
all the
1270
01:37:16.910 --> 01:37:21.170
service starting on the model, at least in the encrypted part.
1271
01:37:21.710 --> 01:37:32.405
Because so yeah. For this encryption, it's nice, but you need somehow to enter the password at some point. So the eMMC on which we initially boot is not encrypted and just shows you the page
1272
01:37:32.865 --> 01:37:42.150
1273
01:37:42.450 --> 01:37:42.950
So
1274
01:37:43.625 --> 01:37:50.445
there's a massive difference between Notal, and by the way, Anthony was very funny there if you care about privacy. Right? If
1275
01:37:51.145 --> 01:37:57.460
1276
01:37:58.240 --> 01:38:01.505
So this is a difference between You're not even allowed to if you live in Canada
1277
01:38:03.585 --> 01:38:13.000
1278
01:38:13.300 --> 01:38:15.160
The average person running Ubuntu,
1279
01:38:16.475 --> 01:38:21.935
it's not a great idea. Fucked. Right? Yeah. I'd rather use OSX than Ubuntu. What about what about Windows?
1280
01:38:22.395 --> 01:38:26.260
No. I mean, Windows is not a software. It's a virus. So, like, we don't even
1281
01:38:26.639 --> 01:38:31.780
1282
01:38:32.375 --> 01:38:40.475
Yeah. But it might not for their Bitcoin purposes. I know. A lot of people use Windows. A lot a lot more people than you think are using Windows. Oh, they can go fuck themselves.
1283
01:38:43.790 --> 01:38:49.250
1284
01:38:49.870 --> 01:38:50.770
Anything else?
1285
01:38:52.255 --> 01:38:52.755
1286
01:38:53.775 --> 01:39:02.560
1287
01:39:03.180 --> 01:39:04.000
in the US,
1288
01:39:05.580 --> 01:39:06.880
which means that
1289
01:39:07.660 --> 01:39:17.535
just by replacing the the the binary names in the comments that download them from the official repositories, we can switch to BSD or whatever we want we want.
1290
01:39:20.739 --> 01:39:21.480
1291
01:39:26.215 --> 01:39:29.195
Cheers to that. Happy Bitcoin Tuesday, freaks.
1292
01:39:29.895 --> 01:39:33.675
This has been a fucking fantastic conversation so far. Did we get to 55
1293
01:39:34.290 --> 01:39:34.950
1294
01:39:35.730 --> 01:39:37.350
1295
01:39:38.210 --> 01:39:42.070
this just pumps and and dumps while we're on air. It's, like, fantastic.
1296
01:39:44.465 --> 01:39:49.525
I mean, that's what Bitcoin is about. Right? I think if you're using Windows, we we have
1297
01:39:49.960 --> 01:40:06.195
I mean, yeah, Bitcoin's about, pumping and dumping in the short term. I I mean, that's it's the best drug there is. We have Zanza in the comments asking, what do you do if you're using Windows? Migrate to Mac. I really do think that Pop!OS no. Fuck you. I think Pop!OS is, like, a very good beginner,
1298
01:40:07.600 --> 01:40:11.220
1299
01:40:11.760 --> 01:40:14.980
1300
01:40:15.465 --> 01:40:16.765
trusting Tim Apple
1301
01:40:17.305 --> 01:40:23.485
with all what apps you use and shit. Like, he's gonna decide. And, like, in the next 2 years, he's gonna start deciding.
1302
01:40:24.010 --> 01:40:24.910
Like, I understand
1303
01:40:25.450 --> 01:40:27.550
the new Imac is sexy as fuck
1304
01:40:27.930 --> 01:40:28.910
because it is.
1305
01:40:29.530 --> 01:40:30.030
But,
1306
01:40:30.945 --> 01:40:41.190
you know, at at some point, you have to fucking draw the line. Like, they're just deciding what you can and cannot run, and they're making it very difficult. So so here's the thing. I I agree that the stock,
1307
01:40:42.210 --> 01:40:43.110
1308
01:40:43.489 --> 01:40:46.710
sort of has a little bit much too much of a cock in your face.
1309
01:40:47.775 --> 01:40:57.460
They need to tone that down. But aside from that, you can turn all that shit off. It's still like, what people don't understand about Max is that they actually come from the BSD lineage,
1310
01:40:58.240 --> 01:40:59.860
you know, of real Unix,
1311
01:41:00.800 --> 01:41:01.300
and,
1312
01:41:01.920 --> 01:41:03.620
and they they are fairly
1313
01:41:04.215 --> 01:41:04.715
fairly,
1314
01:41:05.255 --> 01:41:06.315
hardened machines.
1315
01:41:07.175 --> 01:41:09.195
They they do a lot of stuff right.
1316
01:41:09.975 --> 01:41:13.355
1317
01:41:14.760 --> 01:41:23.420
they're like a very well installed hardened BSD system with the all the system files read only and only the the user
1318
01:41:23.844 --> 01:41:24.985
stuff read, writes.
1319
01:41:26.005 --> 01:41:29.465
It's like they they basically applied all the best practices.
1320
01:41:30.005 --> 01:41:40.389