March 24, 2021
CD14: lightning powered gaming with @andreneves and @sputn1ck
EPISODE: 0.1.4
BLOCK: 675990
PRICE: 1820 sats per dollar
TOPICS: lightning network, video games
andreneves: https://twitter.com/andreneves
sputn1ck: https://twitter.com/sputn1ck
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00:00 - Difference between cash and CBDC
01:34 - Bitcoin Tuesday and Citadel Dispatch
02:18 - Lightning and its interaction with the video game world
08:12 - Esports and its growth
19:31 - The future of gaming with stats
28:34 - Bitcoin Bounty Hunt and its ad model
39:06 - The impact of in-game ads
40:37 - Money matches in gaming
41:43 - Challenges of 2-player fighting games
43:51 - The value of Bitcoin as a network
49:45 - Dealing with hackers in online gaming
01:00:49 - Custodial vs non-custodial lightning wallets
01:13:20 - The trade-offs of custodial lightning wallets
01:19:58 - The future of lightning wallets and streaming sats
01:22:26 - The challenges of being noncustodial
01:23:02 - The inevitability of conflict in the space
01:24:07 - New features in Infuse
01:59:41 - Importance of answering a specific question in every episode
02:00:14 - Discussion on gaming addiction
02:04:07 - Ethical development in gaming
WEBVTT
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:33:37 PM
Duration: 8471.275
Channels: 1
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Particular for the use of general to the general use,
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we tend to establish the equivalence with cash,
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and there is a huge difference there.
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For example, in cash,
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we don't know, for example, who's using
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a $100
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bill today. We don't know who is using a 1,000 peso bill today.
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A a key difference in with the CBDC
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is that Central Bank will have
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absolute control
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on the rules and regulations
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that will determine the use of that
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expression of Central Bank Liability.
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And also, we will have the technology
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to enforce that.
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Those are those two issues are extremely
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important, and that makes a huge difference with respect to what,
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to what cash is.
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Happy Bitcoin Tuesday, freaks. It's your boy, Matt O'Dell, here for another episode of Citadel dispatch.
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Thank you all for joining us once again. You're the ones who make Bitcoin Tuesday
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what it is.
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Citadel Dispatch, the interactive live show about Bitcoin
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for Bitcoiners.
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This is episode 14,
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Block 675990.
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I'm joined here by Andre Neves and Sputnik.
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We're gonna call him Khan for the rest of this episode.
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I'm very excited to have both these guys here. We will be focused mostly on lightning and its
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interaction with the video game world.
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I'm pretty excited about this. I think it's gonna be a
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killer conversation.
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Before I get there,
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that clip you heard in the beginning, if you're joining us via audio only through our podcast feeds,
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was Agustin Carstens of the Bank of International Settlements.
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Apparently,
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this is a a bank that I I don't think anyone really knows exists unless you're a big corner, and then we're obsessed with it. But it's like a bank of banks,
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and that was a clip from October 2020,
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where he basically laid out the plan to get rid of cash,
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so that they can track us with their, like, totalitarian
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stable coins,
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which they like calling now CBDCs,
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but I don't it's like they just like to have nomenclature
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there. So,
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I mean, that's just
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it it surfaced it surfaced this week on Bitcoin Twitter. It seemed,
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a pretty obvious talking point, and I just wanted to surface that here on the show for you freaks.
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As you know, if you're a return freak, you're able to access the show via Twitch,
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Twitter, YouTube. That's all live
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on Tuesdays at 21:100
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UTC. You can also access it via our 2 podcast feeds, whether that's the Tales from the Crypt feed or the dedicated Citadel dispatch feed. You just search those in your favorite podcast apps.
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We're also now on Sphinx chat, which is a lightning powered,
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lightning powered
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everything application that allows you to chat,
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with encryption and also,
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stream stats while listening to podcasts. There's a tales from the crypt tribe in there and also a dedicated SIL dispatch tribe. Not sure exactly what we're gonna do with the dedicated Zillow
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Dispatch Tribe yet, but
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I think we can think of some fun things there.
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And on that vein as well and you can go to tribes.spinx.chat,
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to look those up.
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We have about 20 freaks in this. Over 20 freaks in the Citadel dispatch 1 and over 400,
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in the tails from the crypt one. So cheers to that, to all the freaks that are already in there.
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Yeah. So with all that said, I'd like to introduce our great guests that we have today, our great guest hosts.
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I hope you guys came prepared with some good questions for us, and I hope they came ready to answer them.
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I guess we'll start with Con. Con, how's it going over there?
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Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here here and, yeah, talk about lightning and gaming, which has followed me for, I think, yeah, over 2 years now. So
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I think there's a lot you can ask us, and
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I'm excited.
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I failed a little bit as a host.
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Khan
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is,
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the founder of Donner Lab.
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Andre is the CTO of
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Zebedee.
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Both of them are focused on introducing
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sats into gaming directly,
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and that is why they're here. So, Andre, what's up? How's it going?
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Hello. Hello. Hey, Matt. Constantine, thanks for having me, Dan. It's It's awesome to be here. Big fan of the show. So
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Cool. Cool. Cool.
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To the new freaks that are here and to our guests, on the on the screen, we have,
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on the top, we have the the evil empire price, we have the Coinbase pro price, and on the bottom,
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we have the proper free market. We have Bisq.
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So there you go. So with all that said,
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I figure
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I I I don't really know how to start this conversation, and I I I I feel like the best way to start it is
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esports.
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We've seen esports
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absolutely take off over the last 5 years. It's become a global sensation.
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I'm curious. Where do you guys stand on that movement as a whole? Let let forget about Bitcoin for a second. How how do you feel about where esports is currently?
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So I don't know.
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My
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experience with esports is I really like watching it, so I think I watch
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it weekly or biweekly and for the last 8 years now. So I'm a really big fan of DOTA 2, for example, I watch a lot of years ago. And I think
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I think esports is pretty cool. It showcases,
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like,
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very high skill
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in sports. And I don't know if you if you see what player bases are in in Counter Strike, for example, and how how good these players were getting in the last years. I think it's really awesome to watch and how this evolved on Twitch and everything. I think the industry is super interesting.
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Yeah.
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My take on on esports is that it's, in my opinion, the current currently the biggest driver of of the gaming industry. Right? It's it's 10% growth year over year for the past decade. And,
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I think over the last 5, 6, 7 years, esports has really been,
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the leading the leading factor there. And so
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there's really just one,
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aspect of esports that I I'm not a huge fan. And,
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it's it's the notion of of, you know, only the best of the best can ever reach that level. It's similar to any sort of sports competition. Right? You're gonna only fear the best, are you gonna be in the Olympics, World Cups, and so forth. But,
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I think in in video games, we can, because it's all cloud based, we can actually provide the ability for esports to be more available to,
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a larger audience that isn't, well, a larger active audience, right, that isn't just participating by watching.
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So
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I think that's really the the only thing. But, otherwise, I also have Twitch running on the background all the time, whether it's coding in a meeting or something. So,
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yeah, a big fan of watching CS GO, especially since our our release.
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I mean, I think this is that that is, like, something that has been channeled by any gamer out there ever.
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I mean, that is not, like, top a 100 in the world. Right? It's like you're watching one of these tournaments,
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or you're watching some of the
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Yeah. And the money that goes in there is insane.
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If you look at it, it's so top heavy, like Andre was saying.
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Yeah.
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It's it's amazing how,
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we have, 2 not to dox anyone, but we have 2 mods in the Infuse,
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CS code team that that help us, you know, managing the the servers and so forth. And, they're just on a whole other level. They're so insanely good. And,
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and they're not even, you know, at anywhere near the level that some of these guys play at at, esports. So 1 of 2 of them were Global Elites and CS GO and and, you know, played in ECSA and all these things. And, and they're like, no. I'm I'm not even close. I'm not even nearly close. So it there's still a big discrepancy between the top of the the top one one percent, right, the 0.1%
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and and the 1%. So,
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it's it's really something that's,
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more or less unachievable to your general gamer,
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which which, you know, I wish that was the only difference here. And then meanwhile, we have, like, a 14 year old winning, like, $1,000,000
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at the Fortnite championships.
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Right?
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Yeah.
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Yeah. Pretty much.
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It's,
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yeah. It's interesting to me oh, go on. Go on. The good thing about games is you can train every day, all day. Right? And this is what they do. So the top players have achieved such a mastery which you cannot see in other sports, I think,
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because you're restrained by your physical
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tiredness, for example.
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Well, there's definitely I mean, in all sports, there's a there's a peak age. Right?
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You know, and there's a peak age, and it's usually between when you get strong enough versus when you get too old. Right? And I feel like the peak age
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for every competitive sport,
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except maybe, like, gymnastics or something, like, it's gotta be it's gotta be gaming. Esports has to be, like, one of the lowest peak ages. Like, immediately your reflexes just fucking start dying once you pass, like, 16 years old.
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Yeah. That's true. But I think there are also big strategic esports. Right? Like, DOTA 2, for example, has a lot of old players who are captains.
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Or olds, they are, like, 30 2 or something. So Right. It's a reflex versus a reflex game like Fortnite. I guess Fortnite is Yeah. Is is different. So esports Yeah. It's it's almost unfair for us to
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Fortnite's one of the big growing ones now, or I guess it was at least for a while there,
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and it's kind of unfair to group everything in together. Right? Like, there there there are there are such different variations across the esports landscape.
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It's it's the same as bundling all sports together. Right? It's
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saying, you know, all sports are great. It's like, well, there's so many different types and,
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and flavors. Yeah. I think I think there's definitely clear types in when it comes to esports around, like, FPS. Right? So you got, like, Valor and CS GO and Fortnite and all these, I guess Fortnite is a little different, but,
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you've got these these
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FPS heavy. And then you've got your your MMORPGs
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or or or or, you know, you're related to DOTA 2 and things like that, which are a little bit more strategy heavy.
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I think for the FPS games, the the younger crowd dominates it. And,
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yeah, we had not to get too off topic, but we had some people participating in Minkox tournament. And it was like a a 15 year old took the prize. You know? He just, like, was the best one, by far. Like, he just won it all.
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So
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yeah. It's the new generation.
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Yeah. I mean, I'm a I'm a I don't know how common it is, but I'm a weird gamer in that,
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I'm like first person shooters, and I'm like civilization,
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which is, like, completely
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it's like the the farthest
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variations of gaming possible.
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Yeah. We have, you need to to own some noobs, and sometimes you want to chill and just get wrecked by Gandhi.
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We have a a weekly game night at at Zebedee, and, the first few few nights we played,
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Age of Empires 2. And it's just such a classic.
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And and the whole time, I was like, what if this entire economy was based in South? Wouldn't that be awesome?
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And so, like, the the imagination goes wild when you're playing these games. Right?
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Well, I mean, this is so, like,
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so this has been a a a
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I grew up gaming, and I grew up playing first person shooters. And as soon as I discovered Bitcoin,
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my immediate thing was,
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I want to kill someone
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and get paid sats,
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and I want when they kill me, I want to lose sats. And, actually, at that time, I hadn't even
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I was still I I hadn't matured as a Bitcoiner yet, and I was I wanna get paid Bitcoin, and I wanna I wasn't even at Sats yet. So we weren't it was it was before that, and I was, like, I think, like, some some kid in the other side of the world should be able to spawn camp me,
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and and take my money.
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And one of the reasons why I wanted to have both of you guys on for the this is the first conversation we've really had centered around gaming,
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is because,
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you know and and it makes sense, like, in a in a new space, and and we saw with,
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specifically with, Zebedee,
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you start small with the types of games you do. But right now, both of you guys have real first person shooters,
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experiences
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where where you literally when you kill someone, you take their stats.
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I
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I I know there's a little bit more nuance there specifically with Bitcoin Bounty Hunt,
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but you wanted to talk a little bit about the mechanics there, about how that changes one of these I mean, I I I wanna start with Andre, because Andre,
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you specifically, you guys have this new product Infuse.
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Right? And you took you took Counter Strike Go, which is, like, practically,
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like, the open source equivalent of, 1st person shooters because there's just insane amounts of mods you can do to it, and you infuse sets into it. It's like the OG first person. This game has held up since we were we were little kids and we were playing it. Right? Like, this game is still almost exactly the same. Yeah. That's crazy. That's fucking insane. 99. Is that what you said?
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Yeah. This one, I think, kinda strike 1 o 1.0 is 99. Right? And then the 1.6 was around 2,002,
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3? I may be wrong.
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Right. So,
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that's insane. Okay. So in the nineties, this the the the this game came out, and it basically has hold up held up. Right?
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How has what do you how do you think adding stats to a game like that has changed the dynamics of that game?
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So maybe I can start just by giving a a very quick brief on on Infuse. You were asking about, like, how it works and and the layer around it, and then I'll touch on on the change in in dynamics and gameplay.
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So
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Infuse at its core is really just a a a set of, you know, parts in a system that allow us to inject or infuse
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sats into a game.
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Like you were saying, CS GO specifically because, one, it still has, you know, 20,000,000 active players a month, which is which is insane.
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And it's been going on for 20 years. It's still the the,
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you know,
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crop of the what's the the expression like cream of the crop when it comes from for FPS,
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shooters. Right? So it made sense. We have a a a lot of users. It made sense to be a game to to infuse.
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Specifically, the first version that we had, which is this tournament mode,
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is you you you basically, you're staking some sats. You're saying, hey. Let's put in 500 sats each, And then whoever, is the best player takes the biggest, part of the pot, so it's divided equally,
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between between your scores in the game in the game. So,
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I think initially,
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the goal was just to, you know, can this be done? Right? Is is this feasible?
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There's a lot of of
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ideation and imagination and, oh, this is great. This is awesome. Let's make it work. But you you don't really see it until you you build it. And when we made it work, I remember Chris Mandelduck who who is also a cofounder of Zevity. He he built the the initial prototype,
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and we didn't believe him. And and then he brought it up. So, no, let's do it in a game night. So, everyone got together,
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and he's like, I I put I put stats into CS GO. And then that's where Infuse came came up. And,
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so I think, in general,
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what we've seen is there's a lot more,
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notion of skin in the game is very, very real.
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People get angry when they lose and they wanna play again. And so they stake more sats because they're like, you know, screw you. Why are you taking my sats away? And and they just keep going and going.
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So it it definitely has added,
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a layer of competitiveness
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that isn't there necessarily when you're just playing CS GO normally because I think it's,
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it's it's, very,
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there's there's it's frictionless. Right? You die and you respawn or you wait till the end of the match and then you you respawn again. So there's very little cost
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or both from a from a monetary standpoint, but also from a a mental cost. You're just you're just sitting. You're waiting. You're watching the game, and then you play again.
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When when you have skin in the game, when you have stats,
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it really changes. It seems like people are much more, not only into the game, but interested and wanna participate and wanna come back and wanna win more, and especially the ones that have been losing. There's now that drive to make up that that stats, the those stats that they've lost. Right? So they come back and and, unfortunately, some keep losing. Right? Because that's the reality of it. A lot of people are not are not that great and a lot of people are really good.
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So that's the first version of Infuse. I think,
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we can talk a little bit more later about the new the new game modes we have coming up,
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but that's that's what we've seen in terms of of dynamics. Right? It changes a bit of the incentive structures of the game.
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It's still CS GO at its core, but now you have the added,
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competitiveness
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aspect in there. Like, I have I have some money on the line even though it's, you know,
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cents and and and, you know, a dollar, 2 dollars, 5 dollars.
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But, you know,
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that that starts there, and then you can you can you can go as as big as we want. Right? We can we can do a 1,000,000 Sats games if we wanted to.
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It's just, there's not that many good players willing to put that much money yet.
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So that's what we've seen on our side. I don't know if Con has has things on on Bitcoin bouncing out. I think he has some different,
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you know, incentives in in the games as well.
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Yeah. I mean, I think our game,
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is is a is is a little bit different because
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for for you, it was harder. Right? So you needed to take on
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the lightning element, the Bitcoin element where we build it from the ground up to to
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include Bitcoins.
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Our game works in a way where,
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there we have have these maps. It's a deathmatch game mode. You run around and collect these bounty cubes is what we call them,
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and this increases your bounty. And when another person kills you, then you drop your bounty, and they couldn't collect them. And then at the end of the round,
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your bounty gets converted to earnings.
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So the gameplay is re centered around these sats, and these sats have a in game presence. It's a little bit different.
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And from from skin in the game is because our players do not pay anything. Right? So we are just a very sophisticated
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Bitcoin faucet
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is how I would describe it. I wanna get into I wanna get into that in a second because I think that is the coolest one of the coolest elements of I mean, you just created a whole different
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incentive structure and business model there as well.
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But before we get into that, I just wanted to I'm I'm just curious if you guys agree with me here. My thesis that I'm running with,
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as as as both a lifelong gamer and a Bitcoiner,
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is that once we start adding Sats into these games and I think it's cool that you guys that we have both of you on here because you're coming at it from 2 different angles. Right? Like, the infused product is super cool because
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you're setting up a way for, you know, maybe, like, if we dream big, like, an epic or someone coming along and being, like, we just wanna partner with you guys and just throw it right into a big game. But the thesis for a while has always been that challenger games are gonna come in, and they're gonna try and and make a name for themselves,
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and that's where, like, Bitcoin Bounty Hunt comes in. But, anyway, my thesis is that once we start adding stats into games,
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it becomes almost like
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now that people know you can have stats in the game, you can have skin in the game, why would you ever play without stats? It's like I I would never spend any time playing poker without money.
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I just wouldn't even consider it. It's so boring
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without money. Is that what's gonna happen here with with gaming without, like, competitive gaming or semi competitive gaming, amateur competitive gaming without
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without stats?
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That that okay. I will start with the with the
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the view that, no, I don't I don't know because
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I think skill differences are one thing. It's very hard to balance games, and then it can be frustrating. And you already have, like, progression mechanics which which might encourage you to play, but suts are better, I guess. But
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another thing is simply that games are buggy, games are glitchy, games can be hacked, and poker is like it's hard to do that. Right? It's it's it has defined rules. So I think there's another element of uncertainty in games which might, discourage from having sats everywhere, for example.
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I mean, it's it's not that I mean, online poker has similar concerns, right, that has dominated them for years. That that people are like, how do you make it provably fair? How do you know that the house isn't screwing you?
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And you have AIs playing better than any player? You have people controlling, like, 4 of the seats or 5 seats on an online poker table,
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stuff like that. Oh, that's true. Yeah. My my
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take on that is I think there will always be,
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you know, games that don't have sats, or versions of the same games that have sats that don't have sats.
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I think once the cat is out of the bag and and we move from a place where we're, you know, infusing sats into games and and we're seeing, you know, triple a studios wanting to place,
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that sense into, like, putting sats into the game. Right? Like, look. Let's make it part of our core,
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fabric of this game. I think that will change,
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the the once once we go over that hurdle, I think, it's it's more of a,
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you know, we have this in game currency that is necessary you know, it's totally interoperable with any other service, wallet, game, or anything that speaks this language. It's kinda like, you know, we can just create a new browser as long as it speaks HTTP. Right? Like, we don't need to figure out the the rest. That's super over oversimplifying here. But, if you if you're a game developer and you and you're seeing and this is now the, the status quo, right, which is now you can put Bitcoin into games, I think the users will want to have Bitcoin into games because it it changes the the idea of of money like, the value that that you put into a game,
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can now return to you after you've put that value in. So as a as a, you know, a 15, 14 year old, I would spend 100 of hours playing games. I'm sure both of us both of you as well. I would even lie to to friends of mine being like, yo, you know, I can't make it tonight. I haven't my aunt's birthday or something. And they would come back and be like, but I thought you said that was yesterday. Right? Because I would lie about it just so I can stay at home and playing games.
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Imagine if if all of that time that you you put into it could you could see some return.
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We're not talking a 100% of the same return, but we're talking you you're not just, endlessly putting that value out there and and, you know, it's it's only one direction. Right? So I think once the like I was saying, once the cat is out of the bag, I think, there will be a drive and there will be demand for those.
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But I don't
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think sats fit into every single gameplay,
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period. Like, you can't just inject sats into a game. I think adding money to a game changes the mechanics.
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I I don't think it's that easy. Right? And and even with CS GO, we can't just like, does it make sense, for example, to change the money in CS GO, the money that you buy,
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guns with, right, and and and weapons and so forth? Does that should we make those the stats, or do we make the health the stats? Like, what you know, you need to really think about the dynamics,
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just shoving stats into it. I don't know that makes it a better game.
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But I I agree. I think in general, we're moving in that direction. I would like to see the future is is definitely, you know, gonna be sats heavy and,
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there's just too many benefits. Right? It's it's,
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it's interoperable and I think that in and of itself is is a big one.
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Well, we're already seeing games throw in. I mean, Con said this earlier, we're already seeing games throw in,
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like, different incentive structures to try and to basically
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hit that that nerve ending that you have, like, skin in the game.
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But usually, it's just in these complete walled gardens that are just so much worse than something like stats. And I mean, the perfect example,
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of multiple like, I always go back to Fortnite because
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Fortnite is
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a perfect example of a ton of different things in modern gaming.
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The first and most important I would say is that
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it shows
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how, like, gamers are motivated as fuck. Gamers are motivated consumers
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that love what they do and have very low switching costs. They will go to whatever is hot. They will go to whatever is new, whatever they think is fun and exciting, and they will move over there. And it'll happen quicker than anyone will ever expect. And Fortnite is a perfect example because you had
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you you had this move to Battle Royale out of nowhere.
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Battle Royale was like a brand new format, and all of a sudden it dominated the whole game space. And to the freaks that don't know, it's this idea when you drop, you know, like, a 100 people into a into a
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closed arena, and the last man standing wins,
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which by the way is, like, perfect for
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a for a SaaS,
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grand prize. But anyway and then the other thing they did was they made it so it's free to play on every major platform, that it was cross platform on every major platform. These are things that didn't exist before for a triple a game. This idea that you could play with the PlayStation person from
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Xbox, or PC or even Wii or whatever, Switch.
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And then
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so they added that, and then their monetization
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is is their shit coin. It's like V Bucks. Right? And then it has it has you can buy skins and all this different stuff that doesn't change
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the mechanics of the game. It doesn't make you any better at the game, but it makes your character look cool. And they're making
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1,000,000 of 100 of 1,000,000 of dollars or tons of money
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off of of of of a base using this Bitcoin. Yeah. Billion. Is that what you said, billions?
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Yeah. I think it was 2,000,000,000 at the peak of 2018. Yeah. They're making 1,000,000,000 of dollars because people are are buying and earning
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this closed loop shit coin
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and buying skins that don't change
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any of the mechanics of the game except how they look. And the whole game is free otherwise,
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besides, I guess, subscriptions to make it easier to earn. But, like, so this idea right? So go on. Yeah.
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I was just gonna say and and the the main issue with that is, like, with any Altcoin, you can sell it. You can always sell it. It's at a loss? Fine. You sell it, and you get dollars back.
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V Bucks is is a one direction thing. It's the same as buying Steam games. It's it's like you you put the dollars in there. You can't say, like, oh, I have, you know, $50 in Steam. Let me, like, bring this back into into my my hands. Like, you you don't really get to do that. You have to use it in the ecosystem that they provide.
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So it's it's even worse than than your your shit coins because you can't sell it. Right? You can't, like, get rid of it. You have to find a secondary market to then, you know, somehow sell a skin to someone else that, you know, this, this, and that.
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So it's it's it's
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a a form of of keeping that that that closed garden, right, that you were talking about. It's it's we give them a little bit, to suck them in, but it's always one direction. It's it's never back into the user, back into the player,
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which I think can can change quite a bit in,
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by just introducing stats into this.
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Yeah. That makes sense. I agree with that that you want to remove the shitty diamonds from mobile games. But I think it's it's a predatory
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tactic. Right? It's it's not like they would like to do something else. So they're the game developers, I mean. So I think this needs to be challenged by by new games coming to the scene.
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But this is so,
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I mean, you're gonna love our transition, Con.
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So this is why I'm super bullish on Bitcoin Bounty Hunt because it's a whole new format. It's an idea that no one had really considered before, and it's a very novel format. So do you wanna go into
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how how the Sats are just go go through the full dynamics of of Bitcoin Bounty Hunter. So the full dynamics,
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then I maybe need to, like,
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think a bit back because we created a game before Bitcoin Bounty Hunt, which was okay. The idea was what is cool or how can
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can you earn SUDs while playing games? And our first idea was, okay, you could stream a game and then viewers could add,
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could buy you enemies. This was our first idea, which I showcased at the lightning heck day in New York. And it was a cool game, but it was super niche. Right? And then we changed it to this auto chess, which was high then in in 2018 or 2019. It was super hype to have auto chess, so we built that, then nobody could could play it. So,
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yeah, then we we scratched that game and thought, okay, let's do something everybody can understand, and it was a person shooter.
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And so our goal at StonerLab is to make Bitcoiners out of Bitcoiners out of no corners. Right? Which is cool and good for everyone.
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So the idea was: Okay. What can we do so that our players can earn Sats? And then
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very quickly we came to the idea that, okay, maybe we can just sell advertising for SUTs, and then these SUTs get distributed to the players. So what we have is we have these in game banners of advertisers, sponsors,
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memes, and then this allow us allows us to to spawn these SUT cubes in games so that our player can players can earn subs.
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Yeah. So, I mean,
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you you you in you created a whole new business model that a that a game publisher
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advertisers
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basically, are the ones paying you, not the
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customer. But the customer is still,
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you know, getting rewarded from those ad dollars. I guess you would you presumably, you take a cut of those ad dollars.
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Yeah. And the cool part to me is is that
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the ad dollars is all, like, we we've been a sponsor. Tales and the Crypt has been a sponsor for I don't even know how long now, and we just scan an invoice.
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We just post we post, like, a JPEG. We post our little NFT. I'm sorry. NFT. We post a JPEG,
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and then we just I guess you have to approve it to make sure it's not, like, a list of content or something. And then we put a link, and then we just pay we keep paying the invoice. And, actually, anyone can go to bitcoin bounty hunt.com,
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and they can contribute to the tails from the crypt ad budget over there, and then that gets divvied out to the players.
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So a player can't lose any money. But I think it's important to realize here is, like, every time the stats conversation comes up, we have critics say, you know, there's gonna be kids that lose tons of money on your games, and it's like, yeah, that is the status quo already. Like, people lose 1,000 of dollars on games all the time, and they have no path to win money though. Like, so so a game a game that allows you to win money and lose money is strictly superior to a game that only allows you to lose money.
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I think sense. Yeah.
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Yeah. If I could just add, like, Constantine's,
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like, the idea behind the use of of sponsors is,
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you know, it's it basically removes,
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whereas right now, advertisers, there's always this, this third,
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like, middle third party, right, that basically is taking the cut. The user, it doesn't see any value, but the user is the one that sees the advertisement and then someone else is making a cut on that.
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So really what what Constantine was what you know, the first one to enable is it's it's using the game and the game's mechanics
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as, essentially a medium for advertisers to reach users.
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So whereas an advertiser is basically saying, look. For your tiny, tiny span of attention in this game,
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for you to see this this image on the wall, here's some stats. Right? That's basically like, if you if you boil it down to the basics, that's what it is. So advertisers are directly,
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in a much more direct manner,
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paying for users',
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you know, attention.
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And I think that's very powerful because, right now, the users don't see the status quo is the users see nothing of that at all, and only third parties make that.
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And now with with Bitcoin Bounty Hunt, you can see, you know, Tales From the Crypt has definitely sponsored
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lots of of Sat cubes that are satoshis that people have withdrawn from the game and maybe they have bought stuff with. Right? And and, otherwise, that that wouldn't be possible.
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So I think,
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you know, Bitcoin Bounty Hunters is a great example of of a a brand new,
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model for for introducing Sats into the game, and I think it's it's genius. Yeah.
360
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:04.740
And I think the cool thing also as a player is you,
361
00:33:05.360 --> 00:33:18.165
you connect something positive, the advertiser. Right? Because you you Mhmm. They basically gift you money. Right? It's not that you view an intrusive ad, which annoys you, and then you have negative thoughts about the advertiser. With us, it's just,
362
00:33:18.540 --> 00:33:26.460
oh, it's in in Discord, there's sometimes, oh, it's so cool that you have these advertisers who are basically paying us. And, I mean, we have players from all around the world and
363
00:33:27.394 --> 00:33:28.855
And I think it's similar to
364
00:33:29.235 --> 00:33:50.225
it it's similar to in in movies. Right? When when you see, like, you're watching a movie and all of a sudden the person is at home in a scene and they open their Mac MacBook. Right? Like, that's a that's a native advertising where, like, you know, Apple must have picked there there was a deal behind there. They're like, okay. You're gonna use a a Windows machine or a MacBook. And, you know, the the the the viewer is actually not getting anything out of this one.
365
00:33:50.525 --> 00:33:57.480
But in in the game scenario, they are. Like, they're they're saying, look. You you you're seeing our advertisements, and here's some, you know, here's some, sats,
366
00:33:58.180 --> 00:34:07.445
which which, like the the whole point is it's it's a little bit more native advertising than it is, you know, a pop up on a web screen. Right? It's not it's not invasive. It's not,
367
00:34:07.905 --> 00:34:16.530
it's not in your face, like, you know, barring you from from taking the best user experience of the product or the game. It's just part of the game. It's it's native to the game.
368
00:34:17.265 --> 00:34:25.480
One of the funny things about that just that Apple product placement thing you said is that that, Apple doesn't allow enemies it doesn't allow
369
00:34:25.860 --> 00:34:32.760
antagonists or bad guys in movies to use Apple products. So anytime you see an Apple product in a movie, it's always, like, the hero of the movie,
370
00:34:33.325 --> 00:34:36.204
which I just thought is it's Android's for everyone, but,
371
00:34:37.164 --> 00:34:39.904
but but if if you use an iPhone, you have to be the hero.
372
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:43.339
It's hilarious. I think it's interesting, this ad model, because
373
00:34:44.200 --> 00:34:45.099
as a gamer,
374
00:34:46.040 --> 00:34:47.099
I mean, I remember
375
00:34:47.515 --> 00:35:06.065
so first of all, I like that it's tasteful. I like that it's just like billboards. There's, like, billboards in the game that you're just, like, running around. They're just static images, which is nice. I like that it does create a positive taste in in the consumer because they're getting paid, and they get to play the game for free. So you're able to give them all of a sudden, we're able to give a free game that's not doesn't feel predatory,
376
00:35:07.165 --> 00:35:10.945
which is really cool. But this idea of in game ads is
377
00:35:11.310 --> 00:35:12.690
interesting to me because,
378
00:35:13.310 --> 00:35:15.250
I guess, on mobile, we have the
379
00:35:15.550 --> 00:35:23.225
annoying, horrible, like, click through, listen to this video pop ups or whatever to get credits or get, you know, cheat codes.
380
00:35:23.605 --> 00:35:26.985
It's, like, it's just malicious as fuck. But before that existed,
381
00:35:27.579 --> 00:35:30.240
I remember on, I think, Halo 2 or something,
382
00:35:30.940 --> 00:35:51.840
the DLC was, like, sponsored by, like, Mountain Dew. Like, you got free DLC and you, like, ran past vending machines, and there was just, like, Mountain Dew vending machines and Mountain Dew billboards everywhere, and the downloadable content was free. And I guess they just didn't make enough money from that, and they just went for, like, now it's, like, you get, like, a triple a game and you have to pay them, like, $40
383
00:35:52.905 --> 00:35:59.325
just to get the extra maps or something. They just that whole ad model just kinda got thrown out the window, so it's kinda cool that you brought it back.
384
00:36:00.570 --> 00:36:11.805
Yeah. It's it's it's very annoying in in mobile games, and I agree. But I what what, like, PC or console games? I mean, out the the FIFA and and NBA series are doing a lot of advertising. Right?
385
00:36:12.184 --> 00:36:19.404
A lot of They do, like, end game advertising on the billboards of the FIFA billboards on the soccer field. They have, like, the classic advertising.
386
00:36:19.869 --> 00:36:30.625
You can't skip the cut scenes anymore in in in the NBA games. So you need to to watch this also advertising at the start of a single player game against the bot, which is super,
387
00:36:31.165 --> 00:36:35.985
super ridiculous, I think, if you pay full price for the game. So it's I don't know how much.
388
00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:42.720
Yeah. And, I think, just to add another example, not to steal from from,
389
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:46.395
Constantine's Bitcoin Bounty Hunt, who's definitely the first one, but,
390
00:36:47.035 --> 00:36:51.355
Bitcoin rally is one that we that we use, that Zebedee has built. And,
391
00:36:52.075 --> 00:36:55.775
it's a little bit more of a of a proof of concept game that has evolved
392
00:36:56.270 --> 00:37:05.115
and and is now going to be released, for people to host their own tournaments and all these things. It's a it's a Mario Kart like game, that has stats in it. And,
393
00:37:05.515 --> 00:37:07.055
it's it's really cool because,
394
00:37:07.435 --> 00:37:10.175
we we followed a very similar approach to the,
395
00:37:10.635 --> 00:37:11.915
to the the Sats,
396
00:37:12.395 --> 00:37:13.920
advertising model. Right? So,
397
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:33.280
but instead of of anyone being able to sponsor, we we use, MintGox, which is the we can talk about later. But, we use MintGox sponsors in in the in the app and in the game itself. So for example, Bitrefill, which is a great company and and great people work there. And, they they work closely with Minkox, and so they've been sponsoring a handful of of our,
398
00:37:33.660 --> 00:37:36.800
events. And, we actually put a bit refill,
399
00:37:37.500 --> 00:37:41.575
station, like, kind of like a gas station inside of the Bitcoin rally map
400
00:37:41.955 --> 00:37:48.420
where if you pass by it, it's you you either go left or right in in one of the intersections. If you go right, you pass by the Bitrefill,
401
00:37:49.040 --> 00:37:53.220
station, and you're you're actually given sats. Right? Like, you see sats pouring in,
402
00:37:53.839 --> 00:37:57.380
which is which is awesome. And and you see, like, little coins coming into the cart,
403
00:37:57.825 --> 00:38:00.165
which is basically so Bitrefill pays,
404
00:38:00.705 --> 00:38:02.565
you know, MintGox for the sponsorship
405
00:38:02.945 --> 00:38:18.395
deals, and then we place them into the games. And then we give those sats to the users playing the games. And then we definitely know of users who have won and then, you know, go ahead and and use it back into Bitrefill, you know, for buying cards or buying whatever whatever they need.
406
00:38:18.695 --> 00:38:23.115
So, you know, through Bitcoin Bouncy Hunt, through Bitcoin Rally, and all these games that we're introducing,
407
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:30.380
you know, you you can begin to see that that notion of, like, the lightning economy where you can earn somewhere, spend it somewhere,
408
00:38:30.684 --> 00:38:38.385
earn it over here, send it over there. Right? And it's all interoperable. So you're talking about a service that sells gift cards worldwide speaking the same language
409
00:38:38.730 --> 00:38:41.630
as the in game currency of of this game.
410
00:38:42.089 --> 00:38:45.390
And that was an unthinkable, you know, 3, 4 years ago.
411
00:38:45.745 --> 00:38:49.365
So I think it's very powerful, that that we're able to do stuff like this.
412
00:38:49.985 --> 00:38:51.445
And specifically, I mean,
413
00:38:52.225 --> 00:39:04.445
previously, we might be able to get put, like, bit refill gift cards or credit. Right? The cool part is that bit refill can give you stats, and then you could either use that bit refill or you can use it at one of their competitors. You can pay some random BTC pay server or something,
414
00:39:04.745 --> 00:39:05.725
because it's interoperable.
415
00:39:06.025 --> 00:39:07.465
Yeah. I actually wanted to bring up,
416
00:39:08.185 --> 00:39:13.539
that game because I think that's awesome. I fucking love Mario Kart. I didn't know if we were allowed to say the words Mario Kart or not.
417
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:16.740
So I'm glad that you just put that out there.
418
00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:20.944
But, yeah, Mario Kart to me, like, is a perfect example of
419
00:39:21.484 --> 00:39:33.010
why would I ever play Mario Kart with my friends again if we couldn't didn't have stats on the line? Like, why why would I ever do that? Like, that that that is poker without money to me. Would you agree on that statement?
420
00:39:34.045 --> 00:39:39.025
I agree. If it's if it's readily available, I agree. And and similar to poker,
421
00:39:39.725 --> 00:40:02.990
it's one of those things where I like, okay. If it's 5 people that play a little bit more seriously and they know that they're good, they would be willing to put, you know, $50, $100, whatever it is. Right. If if it's people that aren't, and they're like, okay. Let's just put money just for sake of having money because it's boring without, but let's put $5, and it's fine. And and it would be just as great. Right? So the fact that you can go for, you know, as little as one satoshi most of the time. And and and, you know, if Bitcoin grows to
422
00:40:03.609 --> 00:40:08.355
$500,000, we can go to millisats, you know. We can we can always, you know, go lower. So
423
00:40:09.234 --> 00:40:16.615
I think I think we have plenty of room, but I would agree. I think once Bitcoin rallies out, why would you play, you know, Mario Kart without
424
00:40:16.915 --> 00:40:22.490
without Sats? Alright? I'm not laughing at Andre. All the freaks are just in the comments making fun of how I pronounce,
425
00:40:22.870 --> 00:40:25.895
Mario Kart, and now I don't know what's real and what's not.
426
00:40:26.615 --> 00:40:33.275
But, I, a 100% would would play that game that we were talking about with my boys on, like, Friday or Saturday
427
00:40:33.910 --> 00:40:43.690
for a $100 each or something, you know, like poker. Right. It'd be fun. Exactly. Yeah. Money matches with friends are always fun. I don't know. It's I I do it a lot with Super Smash Brothers,
428
00:40:44.535 --> 00:40:45.755
And yeah. Nice.
429
00:40:46.135 --> 00:40:52.315
It brings me to the money match game, I think. I I did a money match with roast beef at the lightning conference
430
00:40:52.990 --> 00:40:56.849
in Berlin, but he was too drunk to show up to hang hangover
431
00:40:57.150 --> 00:40:57.650
hangover.
432
00:40:59.069 --> 00:41:04.055
I it brings me back to my LAN days. Right? I I don't know if you I imagine you guys went to those, but,
433
00:41:04.595 --> 00:41:21.105
you know, where I where I I grew up, like, we had these LAN houses, right, where you just go and and before gaming was was online. Right? And you you had to go to these houses and get all your friends together and so forth. And it it just felt much more competitive. It felt felt much more like you had skin in the game because everyone was around you watching you.
434
00:41:21.485 --> 00:41:25.105
And I think this you know, the the additional stats brings back a little bit of that,
435
00:41:25.700 --> 00:41:27.079
that that sentiment there.
436
00:41:27.619 --> 00:41:29.319
You you were talking about about,
437
00:41:30.500 --> 00:41:32.599
Smash Brothers or Smash Brothers, whatever.
438
00:41:33.140 --> 00:41:33.640
We
439
00:41:34.924 --> 00:41:37.904
we have a working so if you guys remember Rikey,
440
00:41:38.444 --> 00:41:39.885
which was a game that,
441
00:41:40.365 --> 00:41:41.505
MandelDuck built,
442
00:41:41.805 --> 00:41:43.184
which is like Street Fighter.
443
00:41:43.589 --> 00:41:45.849
Here I go saying the the names of the games.
444
00:41:46.150 --> 00:41:53.130
It's it's kinda like it's it's it's a it's a, fighting game, you know, 2 player fighting game. And,
445
00:41:53.895 --> 00:41:54.295
it's,
446
00:41:54.935 --> 00:41:58.375
it we're we basically, the problem with 2 player fighting games is,
447
00:41:58.775 --> 00:42:02.215
latency and ping. Right? When it's a a lot of players, it's fine because there's,
448
00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:14.065
there's a lot happening in the game and it doesn't it it's not too faulty. But, when you when you lag 1v1, it it's horrible experience. And so we found out that early on that we couldn't really do Minkox with with Raiki.
449
00:42:14.525 --> 00:42:24.710
So we're actually turning it into a a Smash Bros style game. We have, like, a an initial v one going, and we're gonna put a bunch of sats in it. So hopefully over the next few months, we can,
450
00:42:25.350 --> 00:42:28.010
invite some people for early betas and things like that.
451
00:42:29.055 --> 00:42:33.474
That sounds really cool. I'm down to to beta test for you.
452
00:42:33.775 --> 00:42:35.154
Especially, like, with us.
453
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:45.795
That's another perfect example. It's it's almost like the whole, like, Nintendo lineup of games just gets completely ruined if if alternatives are are added that have sats.
454
00:42:47.875 --> 00:42:50.454
Yeah. Are your party There's branding would be awesome.
455
00:42:51.474 --> 00:42:55.780
Yeah. There's branding and network effects to to, you know, go against it, but I think,
456
00:42:56.420 --> 00:42:59.480
I think Bitcoin in general is is getting a lot of traction,
457
00:42:59.860 --> 00:43:00.520
and especially
458
00:43:01.140 --> 00:43:02.350
away from the,
459
00:43:02.954 --> 00:43:03.855
you know, investment
460
00:43:04.395 --> 00:43:14.590
aspect of it. I think people are beginning to see the the values of the network and what it can enable, new types of interactions that it can enable apart from just like, oh, it's it's better money. It's it's better,
461
00:43:14.970 --> 00:43:18.990
store value. It it is all those things, but it also is, you know, an extremely,
462
00:43:19.785 --> 00:43:36.890
fast through through Lightning, it's extremely fast, extremely cheap network to do micro transactions at scale. And and if you apply that to games, you know, the sky's the limit. So, I think people are finally beginning to see that that Bitcoin as the network is is moving forward and and enabling all these new things.
463
00:43:37.315 --> 00:43:40.455
I guess my point is I said Nintendo, but I really meant, like,
464
00:43:40.835 --> 00:43:51.540
I guess, like, party games. Right? Like, so so I guess we should just we should dive in now. Like, the biggest issue here in terms of online gaming in general has always been, you know, griefing
465
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:52.340
and,
466
00:43:53.345 --> 00:43:58.165
glitches and, like, people hacking, you know, oh, hacker got my headshot and stuff.
467
00:43:58.625 --> 00:44:02.325
And that obviously gets amplified when you add real money into games.
468
00:44:03.450 --> 00:44:06.430
That obviously if you if you're playing a party game with friends,
469
00:44:07.210 --> 00:44:12.190
that aspect is almost completely removed, you know. Like, unless, you know, like, your friend is spending
470
00:44:12.605 --> 00:44:13.345
40 hours a week,
471
00:44:14.365 --> 00:44:16.785
trying to figure out what's the next hack of whatever
472
00:44:17.165 --> 00:44:18.465
party game you're playing,
473
00:44:19.085 --> 00:44:22.720
you're probably gonna be fine on that. And in that regard,
474
00:44:23.100 --> 00:44:23.760
to me,
475
00:44:24.300 --> 00:44:31.665
adding some skin in the game, adding some stats in the game is just a clear net benefit. But when we talk about online and we talk about public access and we talk about
476
00:44:32.045 --> 00:44:34.705
opening, you know, the ability for people to be competitive,
477
00:44:35.565 --> 00:44:36.225
with gaming
478
00:44:36.550 --> 00:44:42.250
to the public and not just, like, to the top 1%. I mean, that's gotta be a major major headache on your part. No?
479
00:44:43.645 --> 00:44:54.930
So I can just report we had we had a lot of hackers already, so it's it's hard to to counter this, and it's I would say it's almost impossible. I don't know how how you feel, Andre, how how many hackers you already had.
480
00:44:56.349 --> 00:44:57.089
Yeah. Interesting.
481
00:44:57.470 --> 00:45:02.085
I because they're writing new hacks for for Bitcoin Bounty Hunt. Right? Or I imagine there's,
482
00:45:02.865 --> 00:45:05.345
general hacks around, like, aim bots and things, but,
483
00:45:05.744 --> 00:45:08.330
they they have to be writing stuff. Simple.
484
00:45:08.890 --> 00:45:09.390
Yeah.
485
00:45:10.250 --> 00:45:16.815
So CS GO is is definitely one of the, you know, the games that have lots of of cheaters, hackers, and all these things.
486
00:45:17.214 --> 00:45:20.675
We do all the the quote, unquote due diligence. Right? We only run,
487
00:45:21.375 --> 00:45:28.339
VAC secured servers and and all the the bits and pieces there. But, we don't have a a custom anti cheat software,
488
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:32.319
like you have in Face SIT servers and ECSL and ECSA,
489
00:45:33.525 --> 00:45:34.025
ECSDA
490
00:45:34.405 --> 00:45:36.025
servers and and all these things. So,
491
00:45:36.645 --> 00:45:38.645
we rely a lot on on,
492
00:45:39.045 --> 00:45:40.405
basically, like, community. So,
493
00:45:41.260 --> 00:45:49.600
because we have, like, a large number of mods to help and and oversee the the the servers, but, we have gotten a handful of them. I can't say that we have had too many.
494
00:45:50.205 --> 00:45:51.345
What I would say is,
495
00:45:51.725 --> 00:45:52.045
what
496
00:45:52.685 --> 00:45:55.405
thus far, what we've seen at least is,
497
00:45:55.725 --> 00:45:58.465
because currently there is a cost to enter,
498
00:45:59.670 --> 00:46:00.170
there,
499
00:46:00.710 --> 00:46:03.050
it it sort of removes the incentive
500
00:46:03.350 --> 00:46:04.010
right away
501
00:46:04.390 --> 00:46:04.890
because,
502
00:46:05.520 --> 00:46:16.289
one, it's it's similar to any sort of hacking attack. Right? What you're doing is, technically speaking, hacking will always quote, unquote be possible. Right? It it's kind of a a given,
503
00:46:16.589 --> 00:46:20.165
that a system will have a vulnerability at some part in some point.
504
00:46:20.565 --> 00:46:22.025
No software is perfect.
505
00:46:22.645 --> 00:46:23.285
And so,
506
00:46:23.605 --> 00:46:26.985
you will always have cheaters, but what we find is when we add the,
507
00:46:27.365 --> 00:46:30.450
these costs, right, it it it's first of all, it's costly
508
00:46:30.910 --> 00:46:34.290
to spend 500 sats to then earn basically nothing. Right?
509
00:46:34.670 --> 00:46:35.890
If if we're doing,
510
00:46:36.365 --> 00:46:38.225
matches of, you know, a 1000000 sats,
511
00:46:38.845 --> 00:46:39.425
I think
512
00:46:39.725 --> 00:46:49.480
we will need to have a little bit more knowledge of, like, who these people are that are putting a 1000000 stats into the game because we we and and we'll definitely have moderators watching it because we can't,
513
00:46:50.260 --> 00:46:58.744
provide the sort the same sort of of, oversight that you have in an esports tournament where everyone's in the same room. Right? And you're just, like, looking at the person, and you can see their screen in their computer.
514
00:46:59.260 --> 00:46:59.900
So I think,
515
00:47:00.460 --> 00:47:08.214
but but, you know, in general, we haven't seen that many, and I think it's because it it removes the incentive when, you have to put something in. So,
516
00:47:08.674 --> 00:47:10.775
a lot of our servers are, Steam,
517
00:47:11.395 --> 00:47:23.030
for for CS GO. Is it Steam plus, Sync Plus or Premium? Sorry. So you have to, you know, pay $15 on Steam to have access to it, and then, it has to be a new account. And then you have to put some sats into the game,
518
00:47:23.385 --> 00:47:26.525
and then maybe you win. Right? Let's say you hack it and then you take some.
519
00:47:26.984 --> 00:47:29.405
It's not enough yet to drive a large,
520
00:47:30.185 --> 00:47:37.400
pool of cheaters and hackers. Right? So we have not seen that many. I think as as it grows and as things progress, we will likely see more.
521
00:47:37.780 --> 00:47:47.555
But that's where where it's a challenge. Like Constantine was saying, it's a challenge for most online games, and, we just need to to try our best to to remove them and and just be forceful. I think
522
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:50.620
if we're if we do our job of making it very costly,
523
00:47:51.160 --> 00:47:57.545
to cheaters and hackers, they they they don't have the incentive to come back. Once it's very easy to cheat, then it's fine. They'll keep doing it.
524
00:47:58.265 --> 00:48:16.085
So if we find any any sort of, you know, hacking or or cheating or anything, we bend them right away. Right? It's now a burden for them. If you wanna prove to us that you didn't cheat, like, you know, prove to us. Show us. But, there's no way for for us to to combat it and say, you know, CS GO is now, you know, hacker free, cheat free because,
525
00:48:16.545 --> 00:48:20.005
it's it's just not how it works. How would they prove to you that they didn't cheat?
526
00:48:21.025 --> 00:48:25.940
So we we're actually setting this up now where we are recording all the matches.
527
00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:27.059
So,
528
00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:30.420
basically, we're recording matches, and we have a a whole recording,
529
00:48:31.265 --> 00:48:45.170
functionality in Infuse. So at any point in the middle of the game, if someone, seems to be cheating, you can go into Infuse, like, which is an overlay of CS GO. You can click a button and say, hey. You choose from the list of players, and you say a little message. Right? And that gets sent to,
530
00:48:45.470 --> 00:48:48.130
it gets alerted to Zebedee internally as well as the moderators.
531
00:48:48.755 --> 00:48:55.620
Hopefully, there's someone there to check it out and and look at it. But if not, we are beginning to to set up some servers are already set up, but not all,
532
00:48:56.100 --> 00:49:01.240
the automatic, you know, recording. So we can go back and say, okay. This time at this player, we you know, they cheated.
533
00:49:01.620 --> 00:49:04.680
Unfortunately, it's it's retroactive. It's it's, like, post
534
00:49:05.005 --> 00:49:05.505
game.
535
00:49:05.885 --> 00:49:14.450
So, you know, there's it's it's rare for us to be able to catch them on the the act unless there's someone in the match or a moderator ready to to watch it.
536
00:49:14.849 --> 00:49:19.829
For any bigger matches, you can rest assure that we have people looking and watching it at all players. But,
537
00:49:20.210 --> 00:49:26.695
you know, for your everyday match, I can't say that that's always the case. So that's where the the videos, the recordings come in handy.
538
00:49:27.715 --> 00:49:41.279
Oh, I appreciate it. The tooling from CS GO, which is pretty cool. So I need to I need to catch them live with my private admin spectator mode, and then, oh, are they just lagging, or are they really speed hacking? You have it a lot easier.
539
00:49:41.705 --> 00:49:56.309
I'm envious. But I think the community approach is probably best, and I think I agree. When I was playing CS, it was only on community servers with CS source is what I was playing mostly, and there was Exactly. Not a lot of hackers because you always had mods online.
540
00:49:56.665 --> 00:49:58.605
I think only matchmaking really
541
00:49:58.985 --> 00:50:01.645
made that a problem, automatic match matchmaking
542
00:50:01.945 --> 00:50:03.165
with millions of players,
543
00:50:03.465 --> 00:50:04.845
which we don't have. So
544
00:50:05.390 --> 00:50:08.589
Well, you're going to, so you gotta be get prepared for it. I,
545
00:50:09.150 --> 00:50:11.730
right now, to the freaks who are watching live,
546
00:50:12.349 --> 00:50:16.035
I have our Sphinx chat up on in the screen share,
547
00:50:16.575 --> 00:50:17.555
because I thought,
548
00:50:17.935 --> 00:50:22.995
this Freak's meme was pretty funny because we were a little bit late to start today, so shout out to Sadasorian.
549
00:50:24.310 --> 00:50:30.870
Freaks, I'm still trying to figure out, you know, where this Sphinx chat is going to fall into place in this,
550
00:50:31.655 --> 00:50:37.995
in the show. So if you join the the chat, feel free to to say different perks that you might want from being in the chat.
551
00:50:38.900 --> 00:50:47.960
This show is your show just as much as it's my show, and, I'm excited to see where we go with that. But the reason I wanted to bring up Swinx is because there's an interesting element here.
552
00:50:49.494 --> 00:50:50.474
You can set
553
00:50:50.934 --> 00:50:54.395
a, basically, a security deposit for people who join.
554
00:50:55.710 --> 00:50:59.870
In in with Marty's case, he he runs the tails from the crypt,
555
00:51:01.230 --> 00:51:10.225
the tails from the crypt tribe. He said to a 100 sat. So every time you send a message, you provide a security deposit of a 100 sat for 3 hours. And if he kicks you
556
00:51:10.700 --> 00:51:14.400
if he kicks you because you're spamming, he'll take your 100 sets.
557
00:51:14.780 --> 00:51:18.320
So I I there's an interesting element here where people are, like,
558
00:51:18.665 --> 00:51:29.640
the the the immediate it's the bell curve meme. Right? On the left of the bell curve, the immediate thing is, oh, you add Sats into a game, and all of a sudden, scammers and hackers are gonna get worse.
559
00:51:30.100 --> 00:51:33.240
But I think, you know, the right side of the bell curve,
560
00:51:33.780 --> 00:51:39.595
is is that if you add if you add Sats into the game in in a proper way with the security deposit,
561
00:51:40.615 --> 00:51:42.235
maybe you can actually reduce
562
00:51:42.720 --> 00:51:52.595
the, you know and and you you can do exactly what you just said. You can make it so that if someone tries to scam and they get caught, they're gonna actually lose real money. And I remember
563
00:51:53.295 --> 00:51:58.515
specifically when Halo came out, Halo 2, I guess, was the first one that was Xbox Live.
564
00:51:59.220 --> 00:52:03.559
A bunch of my friends had, like we all had early gamertag with no numbers or anything.
565
00:52:04.020 --> 00:52:05.319
We just had straight letters,
566
00:52:05.940 --> 00:52:07.079
like, with real words.
567
00:52:07.700 --> 00:52:08.200
And
568
00:52:08.645 --> 00:52:13.945
I had one friend who, like, lost his beautiful Gamertag because we were cheating on Halo 2.
569
00:52:15.365 --> 00:52:27.550
And it was like a real skin in the game kind of, you know, kick you in the balls. They were like they gave him, like, 3 strikes. He did his 2 strikes, and the 3rd strike, he lost it, and he got, like, real punishment for for trying to cheat in the game.
570
00:52:28.425 --> 00:52:30.365
Do what do you think about the potential there?
571
00:52:31.065 --> 00:52:32.985
I think this already happens. Right?
572
00:52:33.385 --> 00:52:37.325
The now especially with skins, nowadays, you got, like, Steam accounts
573
00:52:37.850 --> 00:52:43.870
that are a bunch of games. Right? And you have skins on CS GO and you have this over here and you have Valorant, this and you have,
574
00:52:44.250 --> 00:52:54.580
and and now you have this, like, inventory of things that are technically not money, but they're worth money inside of their own markets. Right? You could sell the scans and you could use them here and there.
575
00:52:55.060 --> 00:53:16.550
It it's not the monetary value, but people that have all those skins and have that inventory, once again, they're not gonna cheat because they will run the risk of losing all of that. And we I I definitely know of people who have done something similar to to your friend who's, you know, let me mess around with this and then got a warning, and then Steam was just like, no. I don't care. Let's just let's just ban this person, and he lost everything. And I think it was, like, 1,000 of dollars worse.
576
00:53:16.930 --> 00:53:39.355
He never did it again. Right? Because to him, it was like, okay. I lost enough that that I've I've learned my lesson. So once you it's the same with with the same with any sort of hackers. Right? It's you need to make it more costly. This is something I talk to Mandel Duck a lot when we're, like, working on on the games. It's for Minkox is because he's like, well, you know, this person found his own this extreme edge case vulnerability here when this happens.
577
00:53:39.815 --> 00:53:57.974
So we just consistently add hurdles. So it's like, oh, you need to do this and then you need to find an encryption key in order to to read the message, and then you need to do this other thing to read the message. And then to find the API key, you need to do x, y, and z. And then maybe you're able to try and attack the server, but you just went 5, 6 levels deep, and it disincentivizes
578
00:53:58.515 --> 00:54:01.175
the the attacker, you know, a lot. So,
579
00:54:01.680 --> 00:54:08.320
the more I think the Sphinx chat there situation where you said with the deposit is very similar to the entrance fee of the CS GO. You don't
580
00:54:09.085 --> 00:54:14.065
we we do have free credit servers where you come in for the sake of playing to learn, right, to see how it goes.
581
00:54:14.365 --> 00:54:16.625
But the people that are doing higher stake servers,
582
00:54:17.020 --> 00:54:22.079
you have to put the Sats before you you play. And so that already disincentivizes
583
00:54:22.460 --> 00:54:32.205
a lot of tiers because they're like, well, I'm not gonna potentially lose my sats. I want to gain sats. And if I'm putting sats on the line, there's a chance they're gonna catch me and then I lose it. Right? So the incentive's gone.
584
00:54:33.480 --> 00:54:35.500
Yeah. I'm I'm a big fan of of that model.
585
00:54:35.960 --> 00:54:49.805
We have we have something like a safety deposit because, our players, they run their own lightning node. Right? So they need to earn that channel first. So they need to earn about 5 k sats, and then Nice. Then only then they get light debt.
586
00:54:50.630 --> 00:54:52.730
What? They're born into debt.
587
00:54:53.350 --> 00:55:08.375
Yeah. Exactly. So they need to earn that channel. And and the cool thing when we when we had some our first hackers, he he did not have a channel yet, and then another one had a channel yet, but then we just closed the channel. Right? So he needed to earn another 5 k subs
588
00:55:08.675 --> 00:55:09.815
to be able to
589
00:55:10.390 --> 00:55:12.230
to play again. So So
590
00:55:12.630 --> 00:55:16.410
Yeah. But I think this the problem with that is that it can, like,
591
00:55:16.870 --> 00:55:22.165
you you you fight a couple of hackers, but you you reduce the UX for everybody.
592
00:55:22.625 --> 00:55:30.050
Right. I think it needs to be like, this idea that it's, like, the skins you have that are, like, locked in a game or it's your gamer tag that's unique,
593
00:55:30.350 --> 00:55:34.130
that can't be the incentive. Like, the incentive needs to be a very clear incentive.
594
00:55:34.590 --> 00:55:42.704
It needs to be very obvious what the company's policy is. And and because otherwise, you end up having, you know, these fucked up situations
595
00:55:43.164 --> 00:55:45.505
where, like, a gamer puts in, you know,
596
00:55:46.150 --> 00:55:46.790
8 100
597
00:55:47.510 --> 00:55:55.370
5000 hours into a game or something, and then everything they put in is just taken away from something, like, opaque policy, and, like, no one wants that. That's obviously,
598
00:55:56.695 --> 00:56:01.755
horrible. But, Con, like, you so this is a great time to transition. We're an hour into this show.
599
00:56:02.535 --> 00:56:09.750
I do like to flex on on on other people, and that this show specifically is free and open. We have no ads, no sponsors,
600
00:56:10.930 --> 00:56:11.750
no paywalls.
601
00:56:12.744 --> 00:56:21.070
It's available for everyone fully to download. So when I say that we're 56 minutes into the show, we are in fact 56 minutes in regardless of where you listen to it.
602
00:56:22.030 --> 00:56:25.090
I think it's a great time to transfer into Lightning specifically because
603
00:56:25.470 --> 00:56:32.055
one of the things is is we would already have money in triple a games. We the the reason we have V Bucks
604
00:56:32.434 --> 00:56:35.895
rather than US dollars, in my opinion, in Fortnite
605
00:56:36.835 --> 00:56:38.775
is Technical. Is because of regulations.
606
00:56:39.110 --> 00:56:40.810
It's because it's too difficult
607
00:56:41.190 --> 00:56:44.650
and too much friction to implement real money into games.
608
00:56:45.030 --> 00:56:46.090
And and
609
00:56:46.505 --> 00:56:56.930
this is where all of a sudden Lightning and Sats can can change that that game, but there's certain issues that a lot of people don't like talking about with lightning right now because it's early,
610
00:56:58.590 --> 00:57:02.085
that that that gives us these pain points that we have very
611
00:57:02.545 --> 00:57:04.325
similar pain points that we have,
612
00:57:06.465 --> 00:57:19.595
in that traditional fiat world that we're talking about. Right? And and and the the reason I say it is that I I think these games would add would add money directly into the game is because I I honestly do believe that, you know, if you if you
613
00:57:20.055 --> 00:57:30.720
add money and real money into a game in a you you create it so gamers can earn money playing your game, that it creates a viral a viral feedback loop that that will make your game more popular.
614
00:57:31.660 --> 00:57:33.280
So so with that all said,
615
00:57:34.755 --> 00:57:38.855
this is a perfect this is why it's so fucking good that I have both of you on.
616
00:57:39.395 --> 00:57:39.895
So
617
00:57:41.155 --> 00:57:42.195
Khan went with
618
00:57:42.690 --> 00:57:46.310
he sets up a full Neutrino you run like a lightning node,
619
00:57:46.610 --> 00:57:48.550
a light lightning node that use Neutrino
620
00:57:49.010 --> 00:57:52.394
directly in the client of the game so that the user
621
00:57:52.694 --> 00:57:55.355
is it's a non custodial lightning experience.
622
00:57:55.974 --> 00:58:05.130
And you try and make it as frictionless as possible. I know you've been having a lot of pain with that, and I think you're transitioning away from that. So I do wanna talk about that. But then on the opposite side,
623
00:58:05.670 --> 00:58:07.130
we have Andre at Zebedee,
624
00:58:08.075 --> 00:58:10.415
where they provided they decided to go
625
00:58:10.955 --> 00:58:16.415
completely custodial because it it has way less friction on the tech side.
626
00:58:17.010 --> 00:58:19.430
So so yours has Khan's implementation
627
00:58:19.730 --> 00:58:25.030
has more more friction on on the tech side, and Zebedee's solution has more
628
00:58:25.505 --> 00:58:31.765
friction on the regulatory side. I had to confirm my email address. I had to and now now I I guess I can make
629
00:58:32.065 --> 00:58:32.565
250,000
630
00:58:32.865 --> 00:58:33.365
sats
631
00:58:34.270 --> 00:58:36.690
a a day or something, and then I have to KYC
632
00:58:37.310 --> 00:58:42.210
because it's custodial, which is the same friction that, like, a Fortnite would have if they added PayPal or something.
633
00:58:44.125 --> 00:58:54.180
Can we talk about this? Can we, like, talk about, like I mean, I look. The at the end of the day, it's actually a very similar situation as with especially with streaming. I mean, look, we're streaming through Twitch.
634
00:58:54.880 --> 00:58:57.440
For someone who's trying to operate a show like this,
635
00:58:58.160 --> 00:58:59.780
where if I wanted to collect
636
00:59:01.265 --> 00:59:03.925
tips, like, the holy grail of collecting
637
00:59:04.545 --> 00:59:07.204
tips and gamifying the experience of you
638
00:59:07.910 --> 00:59:11.930
streaming stats to me while you're watching the show is if I have a static QR code.
639
00:59:12.390 --> 00:59:17.605
So I think I think the holy grail, and I think both of you guys would agree with me, what we
640
00:59:17.905 --> 00:59:23.285
want is the ability for a streamer to have a static QR code that's completely non custodial with no KYC,
641
00:59:24.280 --> 00:59:27.980
and anyone can scan it at any time and pay that streamer,
642
00:59:29.160 --> 00:59:32.460
and and and there's no friction and it's permissionless
643
00:59:32.855 --> 00:59:34.954
or permission as permissionless as possible.
644
00:59:35.734 --> 00:59:37.994
That's the holy grail. That's where we're going.
645
00:59:38.535 --> 00:59:39.595
Can we talk about,
646
00:59:40.090 --> 00:59:44.670
you know, the trade offs here and and what we're what you guys are battling in in real time?
647
00:59:45.450 --> 00:59:50.925
Do you do you want me to start? I mean, I have a lot to talk about Yes. Go. Starting. Yeah. Go. Why
648
00:59:51.865 --> 00:59:52.365
or
649
00:59:53.145 --> 00:59:55.405
why did we want to do this neutrino
650
00:59:56.185 --> 00:59:56.670
stuff?
651
00:59:58.109 --> 01:00:04.770
We're based in Germany. Germany is very strict. You have a lot of rules. You cannot simply store funds for your users. Right? So
652
01:00:05.164 --> 01:00:14.305
we thought not only would it be really cool, and it's entirely possible to do that, that our users run their own node, but we basically thought it was mandatory.
653
01:00:15.050 --> 01:00:24.244
And so what we did is our game has this launcher, which is a full LND in neutrino mode, and the user has full custody over his coins.
654
01:00:24.865 --> 01:00:26.724
But as you said, it has a lot of
655
01:00:27.105 --> 01:00:28.224
pain points. It's
656
01:00:28.625 --> 01:00:32.600
the access is horrible. We need a because users need to be online
657
01:00:33.380 --> 01:00:33.880
every
658
01:00:34.340 --> 01:00:37.625
I don't know. It's if they're online often, we didn't find, like,
659
01:00:37.945 --> 01:00:42.685
how how much they really need to to be online, but there's so many pain points.
660
01:00:43.305 --> 01:00:43.805
And
661
01:00:44.960 --> 01:00:55.925
this the you the technical UX pain points, but then also the liquidity that we do provide. Right? So we we I said earlier that a user needs to play 5 k Sats to earn a channel. That's horrible UX.
662
01:00:56.625 --> 01:01:01.845
And, also, we need to then provide the liquidity for the channel. So we have someone who plays for
663
01:01:02.270 --> 01:01:15.155
for, I don't know, a good 2 days happy hours or 2 evenings happy hour. He earns his 5 k SATs. Now we open a channel with, I think, 60 k is what we open with. Now these 60 k sats are locked.
664
01:01:15.695 --> 01:01:16.595
And we have,
665
01:01:17.535 --> 01:01:23.400
1600 users, so not everyone has a channel yet, but it's a lot of liquidity we need to lock up.
666
01:01:24.100 --> 01:01:29.080
And, yeah, it's it's such a pain point, which is why we never had Linux and Mac support. And
667
01:01:29.765 --> 01:01:30.345
I think
668
01:01:31.444 --> 01:01:39.900
it is the goal, and what you set with the steady QR code, it was it was basically possible. You could key send to a user. Right? Which
669
01:01:40.360 --> 01:01:43.160
is what we did, which is pretty cool. But,
670
01:01:43.640 --> 01:01:45.160
yeah, what we're switching to is,
671
01:01:46.714 --> 01:01:50.555
we show a QR code. You need to scan it with your wallet, which,
672
01:01:50.875 --> 01:01:51.855
supports lnurlout,
673
01:01:53.115 --> 01:01:59.120
which which Prius does, for example, or Phoenix does. And then you're locked in with your wallet. The Satoshi
674
01:01:59.500 --> 01:02:03.280
as well? Or no? Yet. Not yet. I I I asked Phoenix.
675
01:02:03.740 --> 01:02:04.185
Right?
676
01:02:04.905 --> 01:02:08.765
Yes. Breeze and and Phoenix. Breeze and Phoenix are the ideal mobile
677
01:02:09.385 --> 01:02:09.885
noncustodial
678
01:02:10.265 --> 01:02:18.559
wallets for for new users. I would agree. Right? Yeah. I would agree. So Yeah. What Breeze is doing is what we did. Right? But they focus their whole,
679
01:02:19.420 --> 01:02:21.760
attention to to to this
680
01:02:22.184 --> 01:02:36.750
because they also have a neutrino node on on on the phone. But we also wanted to create a game. So for us, it's just okay. We can't do both. When you switch to that, con when you switch to that, you're switching to a custodial model. Right? Like, you're gonna hold the stats for people until they're ready to withdraw.
681
01:02:37.335 --> 01:02:39.515
Yeah. But we will just allow whatever
682
01:02:39.894 --> 01:02:40.394
regulatory
683
01:02:40.694 --> 01:02:41.194
will
684
01:02:41.654 --> 01:02:44.154
will need us to, basically. I think it's fine.
685
01:02:44.660 --> 01:02:49.880
Yeah. The friction in in lighting would be so simple. You play around, and then you see a QR code, and you need to withdraw,
686
01:02:50.579 --> 01:02:51.079
basically.
687
01:02:51.700 --> 01:02:53.400
But the problem comes into
688
01:02:54.155 --> 01:03:01.775
there's no with Phoenix and and Breeze, I can't get a static QR code that I can post on the stream, for instance, right now. Right?
689
01:03:02.180 --> 01:03:09.000
Like, even something like tipping dot me, which is what I'm currently using if you wanna support the show, tipping dot me slash at mattunderdashodel.
690
01:03:11.705 --> 01:03:15.805
Like, that's custodial. That's completely custodial, and it's not even a static QR code. It's not lnurl.
691
01:03:16.665 --> 01:03:29.390
So we we have a project which where where you could connect your note and which would allow you to have a steady QR code, which uses lnurl pay, and you would send an invoice to the wallet then, which is which is what we use for
692
01:03:30.205 --> 01:03:38.385
for, our Twitch stream where you can pay the user. So there is a way with this lnurl scheme, but there's not really a way yet for
693
01:03:38.750 --> 01:03:42.370
for people to enable it without, like, this proxy type of thing.
694
01:03:43.070 --> 01:03:49.775
But I it's it's it's entirely possible with lnurl pay to have a static QR code which pays to your noncustodial
695
01:03:50.155 --> 01:04:02.810
node. There's just not too close to that. Right? We're close Yeah. We gotta be close to that. Like like so, basically, what as as as a gaming company, what you what you want is you want a Breeze or a Phoenix, like an Async or something
696
01:04:03.190 --> 01:04:06.635
to figure out a way to make it so that your gamers can just
697
01:04:07.275 --> 01:04:14.655
provide a QR code, and then you don't even need I guess, if you could do it in house, Andre, so you actually built a wallet. You built a separate wallet.
698
01:04:15.350 --> 01:04:16.250
Yeah. Let me cbd.gg.
699
01:04:16.950 --> 01:04:20.810
Let's talk about, you know, what what the thought is into how that ended up.
700
01:04:21.350 --> 01:04:44.985
Sure. Let me just, touch on one thing. I think the, you know, Breeze and and Phoenix are great, and I think there are technicals that are in the works from, multiple implementations in different ways, to solve the issue of static QR codes and so forth. I know in the LND front, there is, you know, the the full blown AMP support, which would provide static QR codes for some static charges. And I know on the c lightning front,
701
01:04:45.445 --> 01:04:49.705
Rusty's working on on lightning offers, which is, you know, much more expensive.
702
01:04:50.119 --> 01:04:52.220
Not not expensive, but expensive than,
703
01:04:53.160 --> 01:05:03.415
you know, the the general, like, just l n u r l pay. It has many more features, but it's also being worked on. So I don't think it's that far off to imagine a world where a non custodial lightning wallet,
704
01:05:03.715 --> 01:05:04.615
if online,
705
01:05:05.075 --> 01:05:14.920
could have a static QR code without a separate proxy. I think that's that's that's sooner than than not. But, we're talking about, you know, on the lightning side of things and the implementation.
706
01:05:15.620 --> 01:05:19.625
So there is a little bit of of of technical things to go through there.
707
01:05:20.805 --> 01:05:22.345
On the on the Zebedee front,
708
01:05:23.205 --> 01:05:24.325
so, you know, we,
709
01:05:25.010 --> 01:05:33.455
the the wallet was something we want we wanted to do for a while, even before Zebedee started. It's something that I've been toying with. And and really, it's it's from experience,
710
01:05:33.835 --> 01:05:34.735
talking to,
711
01:05:35.515 --> 01:05:37.215
other folks that aren't as
712
01:05:37.515 --> 01:05:38.015
technical,
713
01:05:38.555 --> 01:05:45.850
and and just generally, you know, into the Bitcoin world. It's it's very confusing. Like, all of this is super, super complex to them. Right? And,
714
01:05:46.230 --> 01:05:59.755
you know, there there are wallets that we could we could send in to, you know, your your newbie friend, and they would be able to pick it up. But it's still you still need to understand the channels, and you still need to understand, like, why couldn't I do x and why couldn't I perform y transaction? And,
715
01:06:00.300 --> 01:06:00.800
so,
716
01:06:01.100 --> 01:06:02.220
our view was that,
717
01:06:02.620 --> 01:06:07.120
to onboard the next, you know, 1,000,000, 10,000,000, a 1,000,000,000, 5,000,000,
718
01:06:07.705 --> 01:06:08.765
people, we,
719
01:06:09.225 --> 01:06:11.405
can't really depend and or wait
720
01:06:11.945 --> 01:06:14.540
on that the technicals to be there. I think,
721
01:06:15.180 --> 01:06:18.800
you know, our take was that, look, we can provide the UX. We can abstract
722
01:06:19.420 --> 01:06:21.040
this this massive complexity,
723
01:06:21.740 --> 01:06:27.045
and take care of that. So we Zebedee is not a gaming studio. Zebedee is an infrastructure provider. We,
724
01:06:27.345 --> 01:06:29.924
happen to create some games, and we happen to create products,
725
01:06:30.790 --> 01:06:39.345
geared towards the gaming world because that's that's our vertical. But, we're not trying to be a gaming studio competing with triple a games and and so forth. So,
726
01:06:39.724 --> 01:06:43.905
the wallet, what it what it does is it's like you said, it's a custodial wallet where,
727
01:06:44.285 --> 01:06:46.785
you're you go from from 0 to lightning,
728
01:06:47.390 --> 01:06:50.130
within, you know, an email password flow.
729
01:06:50.590 --> 01:06:52.210
So so it's very familiar.
730
01:06:52.750 --> 01:06:55.735
It does there are trade offs, and I don't think there's anything that
731
01:06:57.255 --> 01:06:59.995
Donna Lab commenting, unfortunately not with.
732
01:07:00.935 --> 01:07:01.435
But,
733
01:07:02.375 --> 01:07:24.200
so, it's it's custodial in the sense that that we hold the funds for you. But, you know, with lightning, I think one of the things we we like to say is you don't have to keep it. Keep it as much as you keep on your wallet in your back pocket. Right? It's not meant to be your your Bitcoin wallet where you're you're storing your funds, and this is this is gaming money. Right? This is, you know, your $50 on the on your wallet. It's a $10, $50.
734
01:07:24.980 --> 01:07:29.715
So because Lightning is so fast, if you whether you have a node or whether your exchange
735
01:07:30.015 --> 01:07:33.295
supports Lightning or whether you, you know, you have a way to send it out,
736
01:07:33.695 --> 01:07:36.595
you can you can send it out at the end of the day, at the end of the week, whatever.
737
01:07:37.509 --> 01:07:39.609
One one of the things that I, you know, I
738
01:07:39.990 --> 01:07:53.840
I definitely don't like about the way, certain companies have handled the the custodialness of of Bitcoin is, the situation that you talk about sometimes, Matt, which is like the locking the funds. It's like locking your locking your funds until you KYC.
739
01:07:54.220 --> 01:08:00.000
Shock and KYC is actually like a it's a common term now. I I think I created it. I'm not sure.
740
01:08:00.425 --> 01:08:02.505
Yeah. So I I don't think,
741
01:08:02.905 --> 01:08:26.150
like, you know, we don't know the future, but this is something I stand by, and and I really don't want to ever be in a position where we have to do that. And I I I'd like to say that we would never do that, because, the the way we set it up is, look, you have certain limits, and the limits reach on the daily. And then if you reach those limits, okay, tomorrow, you can you can take it your your sets out. It's fine. Like, we're not we're not in a position where we're gonna, you know, do what what's called shotgun,
742
01:08:27.090 --> 01:08:28.230
verification. So,
743
01:08:28.610 --> 01:08:32.310
but because we were talking about regulations and stuff, so be because we're a custodial,
744
01:08:32.690 --> 01:08:33.190
platform
745
01:08:33.635 --> 01:08:36.735
and we're trying to be, an infrastructure provider for,
746
01:08:37.075 --> 01:08:45.390
your large studios. Right? The the the the goal really here is, like you were saying earlier, is to partner with large studios to to bring this into a much larger audience.
747
01:08:45.690 --> 01:08:50.830
And, unfortunately, for them, there's absolutely no way that they would do that with a nonregulated company.
748
01:08:51.395 --> 01:08:56.775
There it's just not a future for them. They may even become regulated themselves in order to do it.
749
01:08:57.315 --> 01:09:05.570
So we are pursuing all of the licenses and all the things, and, there are certain things that we push back on and there are certain things that we try to to work around.
750
01:09:06.270 --> 01:09:11.185
Right now, for example, we we only support Lightning, and I think that's great because Lightning is inherently,
751
01:09:11.805 --> 01:09:13.345
different than on chain Bitcoin,
752
01:09:13.965 --> 01:09:36.830
and and there are benefits to that. So, we we only support Lightning. We have plans for on chain, but but we don't yet. And, there are limits which are risk based. Right? I think, if we keep limits low and people are playing games, that's fine. You wanna play games, you you wanna put $5 here, $10 here, that's totally fine. We we have no issue, and there's no verification. There's nothing needed. You download the wallet. You use it. That's fine.
753
01:09:37.310 --> 01:09:43.010
If you're taking the wallet for a little bit more than your your daily gaming and you wanna have some funds,
754
01:09:43.630 --> 01:09:50.995
the the reality is that we must, know if you're doing, you know, $200 worth of transactions back and forth, you're buying things here, you're buying things there.
755
01:09:51.695 --> 01:09:54.115
At this point, we have to have some information.
756
01:09:55.120 --> 01:09:57.940
So it it does provide a much, much better UX,
757
01:09:58.400 --> 01:10:00.820
at a trade off. Right? And I think that what Bitcoin
758
01:10:01.199 --> 01:10:01.699
enables
759
01:10:02.275 --> 01:10:05.655
is these types of trade offs. If you'd like to be fully self sovereign,
760
01:10:06.195 --> 01:10:07.335
you have that opportunity,
761
01:10:07.635 --> 01:10:14.480
and all of our services are fully interoperable with your node, with your wallets, with any of the wallets. Everything is is fine.
762
01:10:14.940 --> 01:10:19.465
It's about having options. If you don't have the option, I think it's a problem, but you do have the option.
763
01:10:19.864 --> 01:10:31.580
And so if you'd like to go to introduce your friend to Bitcoin, what happens a lot is people say, hey. Download Coinbase. Why is that? It's it's not self sovereign, but it's because it's the simplest UX. It's the it's the, you know, the the best way to do it.
764
01:10:32.060 --> 01:10:40.885
But then you you want to teach them. You want to educate them to learn about the other topics and the other fronts that Bitcoin enables in in the case, you know, self sovereignty. So,
765
01:10:41.265 --> 01:10:50.390
we we do that for for a reason. Like, look, once you reach our limits, either you do a or you do b, and and we can provide you, you know, help and guidance on on how to do those.
766
01:10:50.930 --> 01:10:54.515
But I I like to just say, like, I don't think a user
767
01:10:54.815 --> 01:10:55.955
removing the funds
768
01:10:56.255 --> 01:10:57.075
from Infuse
769
01:10:57.615 --> 01:11:05.350
and then putting them into Wallet or Satoshia or Breeze or Phoenix means that we lost a customer. Like, I don't see it that way. Right? I think,
770
01:11:06.150 --> 01:11:13.875
our wallet is not necessarily meant to be hosting, you know, 5 Bitcoin worth. That's not the point. It's a lightning wallet. It's it's meant to be your gaming wallet.
771
01:11:14.335 --> 01:11:25.619
So I I don't see it as losing a a user or a customer. Like, we actually see it as, you know, they're taking the the right steps to be at a position where they're more self sovereign or where they're more in control of their keys or whatever they'd like to do.
772
01:11:25.920 --> 01:11:29.445
So Bitcoin enables that, And I think we we're using,
773
01:11:29.985 --> 01:11:38.510
the technology of it and and and abstracting a lot of the UX, the the complexities to provide the best UX to onboard the other the other million.
774
01:11:38.890 --> 01:11:46.955
Comes at a trade off, but, that's that's the reality. I mean, I I first of all, I appreciate you being so discreet with the freaks and with myself, and,
775
01:11:48.395 --> 01:11:59.590
and that's also my I'm not trying to hide anything. Right? It's Yeah. I mean, look look look, Andre, I know you you've always been discreet with me in bars, but, I mean, we're public here. So I I do appreciate the discretion. It does it does go a long way.
776
01:12:00.050 --> 01:12:01.670
I do think one of the underrated
777
01:12:02.565 --> 01:12:03.305
nice things
778
01:12:04.165 --> 01:12:09.945
about custodial lightning is that you are able to, with relatively little friction, withdraw. Right?
779
01:12:10.389 --> 01:12:14.889
Yeah. So you can withdraw frequently. And this is, you know, why I continue to use tip and dot me,
780
01:12:15.590 --> 01:12:18.730
is that I just constantly I'm I'm just constantly withdrawing,
781
01:12:19.065 --> 01:12:24.845
and it's it's a fine trade off for me because worst comes to worst. I think ultimately at some point that site's gonna get shut down,
782
01:12:25.225 --> 01:12:34.990
and I'll lose $50 worth of Bitcoin or $75 worth of Bitcoin, and it's a trade off I'm willing to make for just convenience. It's a convenience trade off. It's a very easy to use service.
783
01:12:35.905 --> 01:12:40.565
The the real concern, right, is ultimately if regulators clamp down and say that 250,000
784
01:12:41.025 --> 01:12:49.940
sats per day is is too much, and they try and make it lower and lower and lower, and then you kinda you kinda have to come up with something else. But but meanwhile, right now,
785
01:12:50.480 --> 01:12:52.100
for most gamers, 250,000
786
01:12:52.480 --> 01:12:52.980
sats.
787
01:12:53.395 --> 01:12:54.775
What is that? It's like a $150.
788
01:12:55.155 --> 01:12:56.614
Like, that's a pretty reasonable,
789
01:12:57.875 --> 01:13:03.014
I think that's a pretty reasonable trade off to make for just email verification for convenience sake.
790
01:13:03.940 --> 01:13:06.200
But let's be honest, I'm a Bitcoiner. Right? Ultimately,
791
01:13:06.740 --> 01:13:09.480
I want some random 13 year old in Singapore
792
01:13:10.020 --> 01:13:11.320
to win, like, the $10,000,000
793
01:13:11.780 --> 01:13:12.280
jackpot,
794
01:13:13.614 --> 01:13:17.155
completely anonymously to his own node. Right? Like, that that
795
01:13:17.695 --> 01:13:19.875
that's where I want us to be at. Right?
796
01:13:20.220 --> 01:13:21.120
And I think there,
797
01:13:21.900 --> 01:13:26.160
we were saying, like, you can you can withdraw often and frequently. I think,
798
01:13:26.540 --> 01:13:27.360
that's something,
799
01:13:28.735 --> 01:13:31.315
I'm just gonna it's fine to talk about it. We're we're
800
01:13:31.695 --> 01:13:35.395
looking into not not looking. We have, like, prototypes and we're we're developing,
801
01:13:35.890 --> 01:13:46.285
the the you know, everyone's talking about streaming sats. Right? And, what we're gonna do is essentially allow you to create what what were we saying? Like, you you select another payment or another node, another something,
802
01:13:46.905 --> 01:14:09.605
through an lnurl pay. So in the sense of of of, Constantine talking about Bitcoin bouncing on, it's like, look. Here's my node and here's my lnurlpay QR code. So you will be able to scan it with your Zebedee wallet and then dictate, you know, every so often, send this many sats to this wallet until x. Right? And so it's empty or until I reach 50,000 sats or whatever. And you'll be able to let that happen,
803
01:14:10.270 --> 01:14:18.545
period. Like, the wallet is closed and on your phone and and so you're you're just consistently taking funds out of Zebedee into whatever you'd like it to be.
804
01:14:19.105 --> 01:14:20.645
So once again, it's facilitating,
805
01:14:21.745 --> 01:14:28.699
the the the onboarding and the use of of lightning and and and games and so forth, but not really removing your ability to,
806
01:14:29.159 --> 01:14:37.965
be slightly more private and slightly more sovereign where, you know, you consistently just withdraw. You don't even need to do it manually. You set it up once, and then you just you just have recurring streaming of payments,
807
01:14:38.425 --> 01:14:40.205
back to a to a note of yours. So,
808
01:14:40.505 --> 01:14:46.630
there are steps in that direction, and I think there are technical steps too. I think there are things that are happening in lightning that will provide us,
809
01:14:47.010 --> 01:14:50.390
with with some more capabilities on the on the protocol layer.
810
01:14:51.410 --> 01:14:51.910
But,
811
01:14:52.825 --> 01:15:00.125
yeah, that it's it's it's where we where we stand now. Are you I mean, so this is an issue that is also facing Sphinx chat.
812
01:15:01.300 --> 01:15:03.139
Mhmm. Is is is this idea
813
01:15:03.860 --> 01:15:05.559
it's it's trying to make
814
01:15:06.579 --> 01:15:09.239
lightning work in a non custodial fashion.
815
01:15:11.614 --> 01:15:16.114
I I mean, I think most importantly is because of regulations, because we don't want the KYC friction.
816
01:15:16.494 --> 01:15:18.835
And what's really interesting about what they did,
817
01:15:19.440 --> 01:15:30.235
I don't know if it's implementable with gamers, and this is Con. This is what I thought was really cool that you did that you tried to you tried to go this route where you just implemented a Neutrino node in in the software itself.
818
01:15:31.175 --> 01:15:34.315
Is that this idea is they they just add they're calling it
819
01:15:34.855 --> 01:15:45.335
they're calling it the Uncle Jim model, but they're also calling it multitenant. I think it's kinda funny and cool that uncle Jim is, like, just a known nomenclature in this case now. All the freaks know it.
820
01:15:46.115 --> 01:15:46.435
But,
821
01:15:47.075 --> 01:15:51.655
they had this multi tenant model, right, where, like, you can run Sphinx on your Umbral
822
01:15:52.160 --> 01:15:52.980
as a podcaster,
823
01:15:53.680 --> 01:16:02.614
and then everyone you on onboard into your Sphinx chat, you onboard through your own node instead of them running the node. Because if they ran the node, then all of a sudden you
824
01:16:02.915 --> 01:16:03.735
start entering
825
01:16:04.755 --> 01:16:08.054
custodial you you enter regulatory gray areas and stuff.
826
01:16:08.835 --> 01:16:10.135
And and a perfect
827
01:16:10.500 --> 01:16:12.199
analogy in the gaming world,
828
01:16:12.820 --> 01:16:14.679
I think, is I own the new Xbox.
829
01:16:15.780 --> 01:16:22.074
I don't know what I don't know what do they call it now? The Xbox? I have the nicest one. Xbox 1 x or something. I don't know. Yeah.
830
01:16:22.855 --> 01:16:26.875
Something like that. They make they they make the naming really confusing now.
831
01:16:28.050 --> 01:16:28.370
And,
832
01:16:29.730 --> 01:16:35.190
they have a remote gaming feature, so I can game from any mainstream Android or iPhone,
833
01:16:35.810 --> 01:16:37.030
iOS device.
834
01:16:38.295 --> 01:16:40.155
But the the the regulations
835
01:16:40.535 --> 01:16:45.355
dictate that even though Microsoft runs the largest cloud servers in the world,
836
01:16:47.130 --> 01:16:47.869
I can't
837
01:16:48.570 --> 01:16:52.989
I can't stream from their Azure Stack. I can't I can't stream from their
838
01:16:53.415 --> 01:16:55.915
globally accessible high speed servers
839
01:16:56.455 --> 01:17:00.235
because then all of a sudden, they have to pay the gaming companies different,
840
01:17:00.850 --> 01:17:05.750
you know, licensing fees and stuff. So instead, what they did was they literally implemented
841
01:17:06.770 --> 01:17:07.990
Node at Home,
842
01:17:08.804 --> 01:17:20.960
you know, into into the stack. So so your Xbox is running at home. It's it's connected to Fios. It's connected to fiber Internet, and then it it it broadcast to your to your to your, like, tablet or your phone or whatever.
843
01:17:21.820 --> 01:17:24.720
It's a feature that I've never used, but it's pretty cool that
844
01:17:25.284 --> 01:17:27.144
I I it's it's a feature that exists
845
01:17:28.485 --> 01:17:34.800
purely because of the regulations. Right? And it's it's something that to me in my head makes a lot of sense. Right?
846
01:17:35.659 --> 01:17:43.875
Yeah. It's pretty cool. I mean, Google did that with Stadia where you need to buy it. Right? So they tried to do it. But with Stadia, it comes Stadia comes from Google servers,
847
01:17:44.575 --> 01:17:57.949
and they have licensing fees. Right? To pay you need to buy the games on Stadia. Right? So it's like a Netflix subscription even. Right. But you you can also do it with chief or something with your PC game. So With Xbox, you're streaming it to yourself.
848
01:17:58.330 --> 01:18:04.955
You're streaming the game to yourself only because of regulations, because you have to with regulations, and the the the user would have no idea.
849
01:18:06.455 --> 01:18:11.810
So if your Internet at home sucks, your streaming sucks? Then the user knows. But if the user's Internet
850
01:18:12.190 --> 01:18:17.010
is good, they just don't even realize. It's, like, very it's a very seamless kind of experience.
851
01:18:17.630 --> 01:18:20.975
I think it's similar to the Stadia model where if you have 1 gigabyte,
852
01:18:21.435 --> 01:18:44.885
you know, fiber, it's beautiful experience. But everyone else that doesn't have that, it's it's a a lesser of an experience of playing games. At least my experience so far with Stadia has not been great. No. But Andre, you're not see the you're not you don't see the difference there? Like, you have you you literally have a company that is, like, top 3 cloud server operators in the world, Microsoft,
853
01:18:45.889 --> 01:18:48.949
and I'm streaming the game from my
854
01:18:49.650 --> 01:18:50.150
$600
855
01:18:50.690 --> 01:18:52.469
piece of hardware that's at home,
856
01:18:52.905 --> 01:18:58.205
you know, that cost less than a Nodle Dojo, and it's sitting at home, and I'm streaming it from that only because of regulations.
857
01:19:00.370 --> 01:19:15.235
Do you think it's regulations or contract mess? Yeah. Yeah. That's what it's yeah. Contract mess. Not regulations. Contract mess. But I think I I would guess they're working on cloud gaming as well. They just have figured out all all the things yet. I mean, there's a lot of talk about cloud gaming always,
858
01:19:15.570 --> 01:19:18.310
but I I agree that the Ang Gym model for gaming
859
01:19:19.250 --> 01:19:25.705
is also here yet. You also do it with Steam, and it's it works pretty pretty well. I agree. What's with Steam? How does that work?
860
01:19:26.005 --> 01:19:26.985
You can just,
861
01:19:29.205 --> 01:19:33.145
it's also it's also you can also play with friends, I think. You can play, like,
862
01:19:33.660 --> 01:19:36.219
games that are only designed for local co op. You can
863
01:19:37.020 --> 01:19:43.405
I would I don't know how how it's called, but it's like Steam friend play or something, and it really works? You can play these local games, co op,
864
01:19:43.885 --> 01:19:44.864
over the wire.
865
01:19:46.925 --> 01:19:51.664
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Where you where where only one person has to own the co op. Yeah. Exactly.
866
01:19:54.073 --> 01:19:54.920
Which makes sense. Interesting.
867
01:19:56.020 --> 01:19:57.239
Yeah. I didn't know that.
868
01:19:57.540 --> 01:19:58.040
Yeah.
869
01:19:58.500 --> 01:20:00.360
Yeah. But back to Lightning, I think,
870
01:20:00.885 --> 01:20:08.980
the the noncustodial, it's just Lightning is too expensive. I mean, in the last with the 10 k prices, we could afford that, but right now, we can't.
871
01:20:09.380 --> 01:20:09.880
So
872
01:20:10.180 --> 01:20:11.720
what about 3.
873
01:20:12.180 --> 01:20:13.239
Layer 3.
874
01:20:13.940 --> 01:20:17.480
Yeah. I think I think, again, if if we advance,
875
01:20:18.205 --> 01:20:20.065
lightning, you know, a few years,
876
01:20:20.525 --> 01:20:24.545
I think there are things that will become possible. Right? If we're,
877
01:20:24.845 --> 01:20:28.929
right now, it's very expensive to hit the chain. Like, it's just prohibitively expensive
878
01:20:29.469 --> 01:20:36.370
for, a game, like a single player of a single game to hit the chain every time they need to withdraw because they need to open a channel. That's prohibitively expensive.
879
01:20:37.175 --> 01:20:43.115
But, you know, if if you're talking about, like, multi peer channels and you're talking about, like, opening channels without,
880
01:20:43.655 --> 01:20:50.540
needing to hit the chain because you're you're doing some sort of, like, there's a service that pools them together and then opens a big, you know, a a single,
881
01:20:51.240 --> 01:20:53.500
transactional chain, opens multiple channels.
882
01:20:54.135 --> 01:21:03.830
Like, there's there's many ways to make it cheaper for that and then including, like, improvements on AMP and and possibly, like, the the offer situation that that I mentioned already.
883
01:21:04.450 --> 01:21:06.550
So I think I think there are technical
884
01:21:07.330 --> 01:21:11.015
items and and and, you know, advancements that can improve it.
885
01:21:11.415 --> 01:21:14.375
But in general, I I agree with with the sentiment. It's it's,
886
01:21:14.935 --> 01:21:24.050
with Lightning, it's it's very hard to to provide that user experience right now in a non custodial way in in the game. Right? Like, as as we're speaking about. Yeah.
887
01:21:25.310 --> 01:21:33.264
I mean, this is this is, like, a a key aspect of lightning that I wanted to discuss because I think you guys are are on the front lines of it.
888
01:21:34.844 --> 01:21:36.784
And it it really is, like,
889
01:21:37.165 --> 01:21:38.605
it it is gonna be
890
01:21:39.200 --> 01:21:40.260
this is the next,
891
01:21:41.120 --> 01:21:42.739
you know, it it it is something
892
01:21:43.360 --> 01:21:53.365
it is the next main pain point as Bitcorders that I think we need to focus on. Right? Is this idea of making a non custodial lightning experience that is as frictionless as possible.
893
01:21:53.989 --> 01:21:56.810
And I think it's really cool what Breeze and Phoenix are doing.
894
01:21:58.469 --> 01:21:58.969
But,
895
01:21:59.750 --> 01:22:02.489
you know, depending on how regulators approach that,
896
01:22:03.505 --> 01:22:05.285
they even might not be noncustodial
897
01:22:05.745 --> 01:22:06.245
enough.
898
01:22:07.585 --> 01:22:13.780
So it it should be interesting to see how that all plays out. Yeah. That's Yeah. There's there's different models of non custodialness.
899
01:22:14.159 --> 01:22:15.059
Right? And,
900
01:22:16.320 --> 01:22:19.345
yeah, Phoenix has their their own and and Breeze has their own. And,
901
01:22:20.065 --> 01:22:24.085
you can you can make the argument on the other side, but I think they are the,
902
01:22:24.625 --> 01:22:25.765
the the most noncustodios
903
01:22:26.065 --> 01:22:41.705
you can get now. Especially if you if you receive funds, you and then you possibly even close the channel with their, with the the upstream, right, with the Breeze and async, for example. Then you're you're truly noncustodial. But until you're doing that, you're you're still a little bit under under their umbrella.
904
01:22:43.205 --> 01:23:02.195
It's it's a you know, it's it's what we like to I like to say to my friends who are are not in this space. It's they they they see the price rise and all of this, and and I tell them, like, if there is no war to to be fought, then, like, did we actually win something? Right? Like, because Yes. We did win. If if there's no war, we won.
905
01:23:02.790 --> 01:23:11.575
No. I I understand the sense. Right? But but, it you know, there there has to be conflict. Like, there will be. It's inevitable. There will be conflict. There will be,
906
01:23:12.535 --> 01:23:14.315
you know, you can call it a war. But,
907
01:23:14.775 --> 01:23:28.610
if if there isn't one, it it was too easy. Right? It Right. Right. There there has to be, and and I think it'll start at the fringes of regulation as it as it has been for the past, you know, however long you wanna say 6, 7, 8 years. And,
908
01:23:29.665 --> 01:23:40.460
lightning is the next frontier, and and, you know, I I hope, Zebedee and and Donner Lab are are good, you know, people to have at the at the at the edges and and trying to to speak. And,
909
01:23:40.760 --> 01:23:50.085
I can I can tell you that, compliance is is one of the the most tedious things, but it's it's a necessity in in the way we designed our business model? And,
910
01:23:50.625 --> 01:23:54.450
we're gonna do our best to to be at a position where we can push back on things.
911
01:23:55.010 --> 01:23:59.910
So I I hope to always be able to to answer these questions on on interviews like this.
912
01:24:05.745 --> 01:24:13.840
Yeah. Switching Yeah. Go on. Yeah. Switching a little bit. I'd love to to talk a a little bit about some things we're coming up with with Infuse,
913
01:24:14.460 --> 01:24:16.159
which I think is is pretty cool,
914
01:24:16.780 --> 01:24:21.135
you know, specifically. Yeah. So right now, in in few CS GO,
915
01:24:21.675 --> 01:24:24.015
we have the the tournament mode, right, which is,
916
01:24:24.555 --> 01:24:33.510
basically, you need to to gather people at the same time, and then the match starts. You have a warm up, and then you play around. And then, you know, basically, each each player has a a a share of the pot.
917
01:24:34.290 --> 01:24:36.870
What we got next, which is which is basically
918
01:24:37.385 --> 01:24:38.345
taken from the,
919
01:24:39.065 --> 01:24:40.205
the the the real
920
01:24:40.745 --> 01:24:43.885
notion of Ready Player 1, if you ever watched that movie,
921
01:24:44.425 --> 01:24:52.915
there's there's a a scene on planet Doom. Such a nerd for me to know that. There's a scene on planet on planet Doom. I've watched that movie so many times,
922
01:24:53.475 --> 01:24:53.975
where,
923
01:24:54.355 --> 01:25:02.030
the one of the I forget the character's name, but they're just going around in this planet, and it's kind of just like shooting around players. And when they when they get killed,
924
01:25:02.429 --> 01:25:11.889
you see the coins move out, and then they, like, grab the coins. Right? And and this is, I think, the the world that we would like to have, which is, like, you know, this world where this is the big version.
925
01:25:12.495 --> 01:25:13.555
Right. Sure. Exactly.
926
01:25:15.055 --> 01:25:20.515
Of of the the sats are, like, part of it. It's kinda it's kinda like your life, but not not really your life. So,
927
01:25:21.010 --> 01:25:32.885
what we came up with is actually a new mode of of CS GO, and CS GO has lots of modes. You got competitive. You got casual. You got, you know, team deathmatch and so on. The one we have, we're calling it tournament mode. It's it's a, you know, free for all deathmatch.
928
01:25:33.345 --> 01:25:33.905
And then,
929
01:25:34.465 --> 01:25:37.290
the the the one that we're coming up with is called survival mode.
930
01:25:37.770 --> 01:25:48.915
And it's basically you come in and you put, like, a 1,000 sats. Right? And that's the entrance. And you basically have a 1,000 sats in your life. Like, your life in the server is a 1,000 sats. Killing someone,
931
01:25:49.614 --> 01:25:54.720
if you kill someone, you get their sats. So they lose, you know, 50 sats. So it's independent
932
01:25:55.100 --> 01:26:01.680
your score is independent of everyone else. And this is something that happens in CS go a lot is we basically remove the notion that you have to get together
933
01:26:02.035 --> 01:26:19.535
to play because you can just have forever running servers, and people can just come in and play and and exit at any point. Right? So they come in, they shoot around, and and they win some stats. Okay. I'm done. I wanna get out, so I I exit. But if you lose enough stats, you get kicked from the server because you you don't have any more stats to play around. Right?
934
01:26:20.335 --> 01:26:26.595
So we're coming up with that, and that's really cool. We've been testing it. It's I I think we're gonna make that the main,
935
01:26:27.010 --> 01:26:29.830
infuse mode because it's just a little quite a bit better.
936
01:26:30.210 --> 01:26:31.110
And with that,
937
01:26:31.489 --> 01:26:40.594
we recently launched the, the on a slightly separate note, we recently launched the the Zebedee Discord bots and and Telegram bots. So, the wallet,
938
01:26:41.054 --> 01:26:46.270
allows you to pair it with the Discord and Telegram bots that you can add to your own servers and you can use in our
939
01:26:46.650 --> 01:27:27.830
servers, and you can you can use, like, commands to do sending of stats back and forth through, you know, something like z send, and then you you set it apart. So we actually added that into CS go through survivor mode. So you can imagine where, if you're playing around and you have a 1,000 sats and your buddy is here and he has, like, 20 sats, and if he dies one more time, he's gonna get kicked, you can actually z send 50 to Constantine, and then you're sending him your life. Right? You're like, hey. I'm giving you, I'm giving you stats so that you can continue here. So I think there's a lot of incentive structures that we can create around, like, team death match on this because you don't want your teammates to go out because you need bodies. So you're gonna give part of your health out to this other player.
940
01:27:28.530 --> 01:27:38.000
So we we're we're gonna come out with that. It's really, really exciting. And then on top of that, we're gonna come out with sponsored servers where similarly to to Bitcoin Bounty Hunt, you have,
941
01:27:38.480 --> 01:27:40.080
sponsors who have, you know,
942
01:27:40.800 --> 01:27:56.864
you know, I guess, billboards, right, on the on the maps themselves. So we're we're getting maps that are are open source maps, and we're editing those and and adding, you know, the thing here or there, and making it so that, the the entrance fee for those servers are necessarily free paid by a sponsor.
943
01:27:57.389 --> 01:27:59.730
So it's a similar model. It's not it's not the same.
944
01:28:00.270 --> 01:28:01.170
And then lastly,
945
01:28:01.630 --> 01:28:04.805
we're actually playing around with the notion of audience participation,
946
01:28:14.460 --> 01:28:31.750
you can, you know, bring out a QR code, which is static QR code. And if your audience pays it, it affects your gameplay. The first mode that we set up is there's this drug mode in CS GO where your your vision gets skewed and you walk slower and you move around, but it gives you sats. So if you're dying
947
01:28:32.130 --> 01:28:48.614
in the game, you can actually hide and get your your audience like, hey. Give me sats. So they give you life and you continue, but your gameplay is all screwed up, so you can't see straight and you can't move right or left. So the audience dig that. Yeah. The audience moves from passive to be an active audience member, and I think that's really powerful.
948
01:28:49.370 --> 01:28:52.590
So there's a few things coming to 10fuse that we're really excited for.
949
01:28:53.290 --> 01:28:58.430
The there's almost, like, 2 different elements. It's like, the idea of of building a
950
01:28:58.955 --> 01:29:01.135
platform that is fun for
951
01:29:01.675 --> 01:29:08.430
the average user versus, you know, we have this whole new streamer culture. Right? You know, we're broadcasting on Twitch right now,
952
01:29:09.470 --> 01:29:15.330
where you could build a cool tool that is just a cool game that is just designed for, like, the top a 100 streamers,
953
01:29:16.844 --> 01:29:22.225
with with it you're right with incentive setup that their audience is, like, basically playing the game with them,
954
01:29:22.765 --> 01:29:24.385
by by pushing stats
955
01:29:24.685 --> 01:29:25.370
through them.
956
01:29:25.850 --> 01:29:42.955
It's it's similar to to Constantine's Bitcoin Bounty where, like, the audience can put a bounty on someone else. And so you're actually putting a bounty on a player who you actually want to get killed because the fact that there's more bounty on their head, it means that so whoever kills them gets more stats. So it changes the dynamic completely.
957
01:29:43.750 --> 01:29:46.329
We have something similar with Bitcoin rally as well where,
958
01:29:46.869 --> 01:29:49.369
given enough, power ups from the audience,
959
01:29:49.670 --> 01:30:06.320
a this this quote unquote god mode happens and then there's like thunder and lightning all over the screen and you can't really see straight and you're hitting the walls. And and, you know, the first player that was was at the front, you know, at the end of the this, like, 15 second thing is the 3rd player, and it completely changes the, the the the gameplay.
960
01:30:06.935 --> 01:30:13.835
So we're we're really excited for for these types of of, you know, breaking the audience, breaking the the wall between the audience and the game.
961
01:30:14.530 --> 01:30:18.550
And and this is this goes back to to what I was saying about Zebedee. We,
962
01:30:18.930 --> 01:30:20.290
we actually started with,
963
01:30:20.690 --> 01:30:32.290
a a developer dashboard because we thought, you know, why wouldn't gamers want to build games with Bitcoin? This is so simple and straightforward. Like, why would you not want this? But it's but it's early days, and I think,
964
01:30:32.850 --> 01:30:45.365
it's it's, you know, something that we need to show. We need to provide options and and real games to to prove to the the current gaming industry that, like, this is possible. This is real. This is what we can enable.
965
01:30:45.985 --> 01:30:55.890
So I think, Bitcoin Bouncing Out was was a great game to showcase that because it's a complete game. Right? Like, you have the entire experience. You have the shooting. You have the the dying. You have all of it.
966
01:30:56.685 --> 01:31:05.985
And I think, CS GO brings it on another level because CS GO is, you know, quote unquote a sweep a triple a game. It's like a full on, you know, massive game, and I think it takes that a step further.
967
01:31:06.550 --> 01:31:12.410
So, you know, I think the the reason why we're not a gaming studio is because it's an uphill battle against giants.
968
01:31:12.710 --> 01:31:16.805
And so we are infrastructure providers and and consumer products
969
01:31:17.425 --> 01:31:27.159
for the gaming industry as a whole. So we're actually focusing a lot on streaming. We're focusing a lot on on the audience participation, right, in Mincox. That's a really big piece of it,
970
01:31:27.540 --> 01:31:28.920
because we want to prove
971
01:31:29.380 --> 01:31:58.600
the new types of things and interactions that are enabled by lightning. Because changing you know, removing your fiat rails and putting lightning, it's great. Right? But it it's it's it's not that much better. The experience of someone going to the deli down the street or the bodega and paying with a an Apple Pay or ping by scanning a QR code. Like, those experiences are not that much better. Right? Like, it it it it's not a 10 x improvement or a 100 x improvement. And for a user to change their ways, you really need that 10 x improvement. You really need,
972
01:31:59.620 --> 01:32:01.000
it needs to be really
973
01:32:01.614 --> 01:32:15.430
clearly better. Right? It it it shouldn't be a question of if or when. And I think Lightning enables things that aren't possible with the dollar. Right now you have, you were mentioning this earlier, Matt. Like you have the the cheapest thing you can buy online period 2 dollars is like 99¢.
974
01:32:15.995 --> 01:32:21.615
Like, that's the cheapest thing. And and that's an app store. And really, it's like 129 because they add tax on it.
975
01:32:22.475 --> 01:32:23.695
So Mhmm. 999¢
976
01:32:24.475 --> 01:32:35.600
is the the the cheapest. And with with Lightning, you can go, like I was saying, all the way to 1 sat and possibly later on, even millisats. So there are types of interactions that are inherently impossible
977
01:32:36.205 --> 01:32:37.665
with legacy infrastructure,
978
01:32:38.045 --> 01:32:39.185
and it's inherently,
979
01:32:40.125 --> 01:32:40.945
you know, trivial
980
01:32:41.324 --> 01:32:50.210
with Lightning. And I think that's what we want to push forward. The same sort of things that, Constantine and Bitcoin Bouncing Hunter are pushing forward. These new types of interactions that aren't possible.
981
01:32:50.670 --> 01:33:02.215
It's always gonna be the challengers. It's always gonna be the challengers that innovate. You know, League of Legends isn't gonna innovate. Call of Duty didn't innovate. Yep. Right? They didn't innovate. Fortnite came in. Epic came in. They innovated.
982
01:33:03.070 --> 01:33:05.570
And no, really, the other game innovated. What was that first,
983
01:33:06.670 --> 01:33:11.650
such a dick. Yeah. Pubg? Pubg. Yeah. They were the first ones to fucking
984
01:33:12.025 --> 01:33:15.945
innovate. Right? And then they just got their asses handed to them by Epic Games. But,
985
01:33:16.824 --> 01:33:27.890
this idea, right, that that we're gonna have triple a games just add stats will never fucking happen at first. They need to they need to feel like their pants are on fire before they do it. Yeah. I agree.
986
01:33:28.805 --> 01:33:33.865
But I think modding is probably a big thing. So I think you can mod a game to
987
01:33:34.565 --> 01:33:38.105
to have lightning. And then maybe if these just wanted, they will play on
988
01:33:38.550 --> 01:33:40.170
infused servers versus
989
01:33:40.870 --> 01:33:44.250
normal servers. So I think modding with modding, it's entirely possible.
990
01:33:45.545 --> 01:33:49.165
That's the idea behind Infuse. Right? It's That's fun. Games.
991
01:33:49.864 --> 01:33:56.090
That's fun. You're, like, sticking your foot in the door, you know, but that's different, right, than the game shipping with fucking Sass. Yeah. That's
992
01:33:56.550 --> 01:34:13.850
true. That's true. It's it's the difference between an a pop up and a native advertiser. Right? It's built into the fabric of it. And I think I think that, Matt, you're spot on where, there's no incentive whatsoever for them at this point. Right? Not only is is the infrastructure not there for the level of, like, Steam is seeing, you know, 20,000,000
993
01:34:14.150 --> 01:34:15.690
active users concurrently.
994
01:34:16.230 --> 01:34:25.885
Like, we are not at a position where Lightning is ready for 20,000,000 concurrent users making payments up and down. I don't know that that we're there yet. I think I would like to say we're not, but we will be soon.
995
01:34:26.345 --> 01:34:47.165
So, you know, there's very little incentive. They control the rails. They control the economy. They they, you know, they do whatever they want. I think, you know, Infuse and and CS GO is is a way to show them what's out there. Like, this is what's new, on a real game. Right? And and and it's a real as in, like, on a on a, you know, triple a big big title game.
996
01:34:47.600 --> 01:35:06.555
And we can show it. Okay. And then let's say we get a bunch of traction. Okay. Then we get a bunch of servers. Okay. We get a bunch of gamers. And then we start seeing people want different games. So okay. Let's infuse Minecraft. Let's infuse DOTA 2. Let's infuse, League of Legends. Let's infuse Fortnite. There's a bunch of games that we can't infuse because of the way they are and the way they're set up, but there's a bunch of games we can.
997
01:35:07.530 --> 01:35:12.829
You know, so imagine a future where we have Minecraft infused, DOTA 2 infused, CS GO Minecraft is already infused.
998
01:35:14.170 --> 01:35:15.715
We did that first.
999
01:35:16.335 --> 01:35:16.835
Yeah.
1000
01:35:17.215 --> 01:35:17.715
So,
1001
01:35:18.095 --> 01:35:22.755
you know, you get to a place where it's it's inevitable that they will start asking questions.
1002
01:35:23.500 --> 01:35:44.030
It it's it's impossible for them to see traction elsewhere. It's it's similarly to Among Us. Right? There will eventually be a game. I I don't think it's the games that we're talking about right now, but there will eventually be a game that is lightning powered and Bitcoin powered, and it will blow up the same way you have Among Us, which is a game that is relatively simple, but it just exploded. That's a super game.
1003
01:35:44.410 --> 01:35:50.095
Right. And and it's it's fun to play with friends, but, you know, that that's basically it. It's like not not my fault. Secret Hitler. Right?
1004
01:35:51.435 --> 01:35:56.550
That's one way to put it. Yeah. But, I mean, it's a it's a known game format. Right? Right.
1005
01:35:56.890 --> 01:35:57.390
And
1006
01:35:57.730 --> 01:36:05.750
and I think Verbal or mafia or what's Right. Right. Secretively. Right. Right. Where there's one person's the mole, and you're trying to figure out the moles. Right?
1007
01:36:06.425 --> 01:36:16.989
Didn't know that. Yeah. Exactly. How would you because there's open source versions of it, how would you infuse lightning there in in a among us type game or secret Hitler type game?
1008
01:36:17.850 --> 01:36:19.630
I think for for those games, there's,
1009
01:36:20.090 --> 01:36:32.040
you know, what we can infuse at the moment, are servers that we can host. So if we can host the server of Among Us, we and, you know, get some information from that server, we should be able to infuse it.
1010
01:36:32.739 --> 01:36:33.239
So
1011
01:36:33.540 --> 01:36:38.199
it's it's not necessarily it's what I was saying earlier. It's not necessarily that every game can be infused.
1012
01:36:38.655 --> 01:36:40.514
And then there are also big,
1013
01:36:41.215 --> 01:36:42.594
publishers that completely
1014
01:36:42.895 --> 01:36:52.000
disable that, like, capability. So for example, Epic Games has in their terms of service, big and bold. We do not allow any cryptocurrency
1015
01:36:52.380 --> 01:36:54.400
in our games. Like, so if Really?
1016
01:36:54.885 --> 01:37:11.680
Yeah. So let's say we add it. Wow. Right? Even even as a mod even as a mod, let's assume that we add it and then we get a little bit of attraction. All it takes is one person from the Fortnite world and and Epic Games and be like, oh, these guys are doing this. It's illegal. Shut them up. Welcome. Right? But the team has that as well, by the way.
1017
01:37:12.385 --> 01:37:19.605
So as well? Like, tolls under the yeah. Because we were rejected from Steam, Bitcoin Bounty Hunt, because we use, cryptocurrencies.
1018
01:37:20.980 --> 01:37:25.320
Every payment that goes through a Steam game must be done via Steam Wallet.
1019
01:37:25.700 --> 01:37:35.585
I feel like they could at least they could at least do us the respect of saying Bitcoin instead of cryptocurrency. Like, if you're gonna ban us in the terms and conditions, at least be like Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency.
1020
01:37:36.845 --> 01:37:45.320
And others. That's true. Con, do you see this question from Sam Weiner Yeah. Or Weiner? He wants to know if if you'll be creating new maps for Bitcoin bounty hunt?
1021
01:37:45.675 --> 01:37:51.695
So the cool thing is, I already announced on MintGox that's Bitcoin Bounty Hunt.
1022
01:37:52.155 --> 01:37:52.655
Everything
1023
01:37:53.275 --> 01:37:55.930
that all the back ends, all the
1024
01:37:56.710 --> 01:38:01.850
stuff that you that uses the payments and stuff will be open sourced next month.
1025
01:38:02.655 --> 01:38:03.155
So
1026
01:38:04.094 --> 01:38:10.750
while we might currently not work on new maps, creating new maps is super easy, and you will be able to or
1027
01:38:11.310 --> 01:38:18.210
creators will be easily able to create their own maps, and then they will be able to monetize creating those maps.
1028
01:38:18.895 --> 01:38:22.275
So because we think that content creation is pretty cool,
1029
01:38:22.895 --> 01:38:29.050
we can monetize it in Bitcoin Bounty. And so if your map gets played, you will get sent sats. So and we want to do this.
1030
01:38:29.429 --> 01:38:39.775
So it will be open source, and everyone can create maps, and we might have a DAS 2 competitor on Bitcoin Bounty, and We're gonna have, like, a 1000000 maps. There's gonna be a fucking insane amount of maps.
1031
01:38:40.075 --> 01:38:43.615
Yeah. And we have we have community hosted servers and
1032
01:38:44.235 --> 01:38:46.400
stuff like this because do you ever
1033
01:38:46.860 --> 01:38:53.025
do you remember that do you know that game, the motorcycle game that I'm talking about that you had community generated map?
1034
01:38:53.425 --> 01:39:01.045
I know what you mean. It's like happy days or something. It's like every game every map was, like, glitchy as fuck, though. Like, there was, like,
1035
01:39:01.430 --> 01:39:08.170
it was, like, I I feel like if they could make stats on it, maybe the the maps would not be so extreme. They'd be more, like,
1036
01:39:09.030 --> 01:39:09.530
legitimate.
1037
01:39:10.070 --> 01:39:10.730
You know?
1038
01:39:12.355 --> 01:39:20.614
Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like like, it was it was you had to ride the you had to ride the the motorbike, and you had to keep you couldn't fall off the motorbike.
1039
01:39:20.980 --> 01:39:38.045
It was a side scroller. And they would make the map where you would do, like, insane loops and shit, and it was just, like, always like like, they were rewarded basically for going as aggressive as fucking possible, but, like, we never finished the track. It was just, like, impossible to finish the track in in the user created modes, at least the big ones.
1040
01:39:38.600 --> 01:39:44.860
Yep. But I feel like if if you add in an incentive for people to create these user created tracks or user created maps,
1041
01:39:45.815 --> 01:39:49.275
Trials. Yep. Thank you, BTC pins. So In the comments.
1042
01:39:51.094 --> 01:39:55.114
If you added an incentive there, then maybe they'll actually polish it out. Right?
1043
01:39:56.040 --> 01:40:05.135
Yeah. And, I mean, a server hoster would decide to what what map he will want to have in the rotation, so you won't have as many shitty maps
1044
01:40:06.315 --> 01:40:06.815
probably.
1045
01:40:07.514 --> 01:40:14.130
And I think that that, if it's called trials, isn't yeah. I think it's trials. It's definitely trials. It's a 100% trials is the game I'm talking about.
1046
01:40:14.830 --> 01:40:15.570
Great game.
1047
01:40:16.070 --> 01:40:16.570
There's,
1048
01:40:17.230 --> 01:40:23.955
there's also the I I know we're seeing the holy grail is, you know, getting, triple a's game studios to adopt this.
1049
01:40:24.495 --> 01:40:26.515
But we, you know, we we forget,
1050
01:40:27.055 --> 01:40:28.035
sometimes that,
1051
01:40:28.495 --> 01:40:32.630
I don't I don't know if you remember this, but Kongregate, Milliclip, and all of these,
1052
01:40:33.270 --> 01:40:45.885
you know, portals of of web games, they're seeing millions and millions of users a month still. Like, we're talking we're talking about like there's a lot of small, tiny web based games that can very easily introduce Sats.
1053
01:40:46.185 --> 01:41:04.445
And there's no walled garden to be worried about. There's no, you know, this and that that can't be done. And, you know, it it it again, it changes the incentives. I think there's really cool things that can be done at a smaller scale similar to Among Us. Right? We could infuse Among Us or a a a game like it. And and it doesn't have, like, the sharpest,
1054
01:41:05.119 --> 01:41:07.059
and the crispest and and polygons
1055
01:41:07.360 --> 01:41:21.710
on all over the place because it's so high def. Right? It's it's, it's just the game based on the game itself. And it's a small game and it's great and it has stats. And Right. Those stats can speak to the other game over there and then another game and you can get it out and you can do this. And,
1056
01:41:22.910 --> 01:41:25.330
so there, you know, there is this whole,
1057
01:41:25.710 --> 01:41:32.094
world of of, like, the long tail of indie game developers and web based games that aren't necessarily your triple a games,
1058
01:41:32.974 --> 01:41:46.960
that that, you know, we're definitely seeing some interest in people asking. After seeing CS GO and after seeing Bitcoin Bounty Hunt and and the games we show at Mincox, it's like, oh, how do I get started? And they're like, oh, here's the dashboard. Here's how you get started, and here's this, this, and that.
1059
01:41:47.500 --> 01:41:48.515
So there is interest,
1060
01:41:49.075 --> 01:41:52.855
you know, not only from the the triple a on on that side because there's there's
1061
01:41:53.155 --> 01:41:59.420
little incentive for them now, but, on the indie game side, there's a lot of of incentives for them to add it. I think there's anywhere
1062
01:41:59.800 --> 01:42:01.820
from, like, 500 to a 1000,
1063
01:42:02.280 --> 01:42:13.515
games deployed to the App Store every day, man. That's just like it's absurd number. It's so saturated. So you need to stand out. If your game is just another tiny game, you're talking, like, 0.0001%
1064
01:42:14.615 --> 01:42:14.990
chance
1065
01:42:16.990 --> 01:42:31.975
of your game getting user base. But if you add a new incentive thing, and maybe you add Bitcoin and you take advantage of the trend that we're seeing now, maybe you can set yourself apart. Right? And your game can can be set apart and, like, oh, okay. This is But that's what I'm saying. Right? It's like is is, you know, people under under count,
1066
01:42:32.620 --> 01:42:34.560
you know, non gamers under count
1067
01:42:34.940 --> 01:42:36.560
the the the the significance
1068
01:42:36.940 --> 01:42:40.239
of the fact that we're adding stats to games. Like, I I think,
1069
01:42:40.695 --> 01:42:45.675
like, it's gonna be a fucking massive I mean, Farmville, what was the what was the parent company of Farmville?
1070
01:42:48.590 --> 01:42:56.210
You know who I'm talking about. Right? Yeah. Is it Zynga? Zynga? Zynga. Right? Like like that whole idea of, like, the mobile gaming format,
1071
01:42:57.505 --> 01:43:06.245
came out of nowhere. It, like, it completely came out of nowhere and all of a sudden everyone was fucking doing it. Right? Like, if if if you have a solid
1072
01:43:07.170 --> 01:43:12.630
setup if if all it takes is one one small company in the mobile sphere
1073
01:43:13.010 --> 01:43:13.909
that fucking
1074
01:43:14.210 --> 01:43:17.785
kills it with sats in the game, and then all of a sudden,
1075
01:43:18.565 --> 01:43:20.185
every shitty fucking app
1076
01:43:20.725 --> 01:43:27.040
in the App Store, every single shitty game in the App Store is gonna be the derivative of that same exact product.
1077
01:43:27.660 --> 01:43:28.320
I agree.
1078
01:43:28.780 --> 01:43:33.200
I think it's a network effect I think it's a network effect thing. It's gonna take one
1079
01:43:33.835 --> 01:43:37.455
game to to to let's just call it blow up. Right?
1080
01:43:37.755 --> 01:43:40.335
Like, the the same scenario of Among Us or Lightsaber,
1081
01:43:40.875 --> 01:43:43.889
in VR, like pub PUBG or all of them. And,
1082
01:43:44.349 --> 01:43:56.425
you know, it it it'll take one of those that sets the standard, and then people are like, oh, this is where we're headed. So let's focus on that. And then I think it's it's, you know, down uphill from here. Not downhill because it's a it's a good thing.
1083
01:43:57.685 --> 01:44:00.230
Yeah. That's I agree. Size. Yeah.
1084
01:44:00.710 --> 01:44:01.210
But,
1085
01:44:02.150 --> 01:44:15.715
as a current game developer, I can only say creating games is super hard. So Bitcoin Bounty, and this is our first game. It's What a it's hell. Created a good game, though, dude. You created, like, a really solid, like, high development game.
1086
01:44:16.199 --> 01:44:22.920
So I guess. To your speed. I don't know that I yeah. Props, man. I don't know that I I that. Personally, I'm not a game developer, but,
1087
01:44:23.755 --> 01:44:25.215
talking to to game devs,
1088
01:44:25.595 --> 01:44:41.795
you know, on a weekly basis and then talking to you and and Chris and so on, and it's just like I I know nothing of that world. Yeah. I am not a developer at all, and that seems like what you built is you did a fucking great job so far. So I'm very proud of you, and I I look forward to seeing the iterations over there.
1089
01:44:42.255 --> 01:44:48.755
So I wanna jump into what the fuck Mincox is. But before I do that, I just wanna do a quick shill to all of our Twitch,
1090
01:44:49.215 --> 01:44:49.715
viewers,
1091
01:44:50.530 --> 01:44:53.110
because we've been trying to go hard in the paint on Twitch.
1092
01:44:53.730 --> 01:44:56.790
These guys have, like, a bunch of Twitch channels. You can go to twitch.tv/donnerlab.
1093
01:45:00.135 --> 01:45:02.715
That's Bitcoin Bounty Hunts main twitch.tv.
1094
01:45:04.135 --> 01:45:05.835
You can go to mint gox, twitch.tv/mint
1095
01:45:06.695 --> 01:45:07.835
gox tv
1096
01:45:08.590 --> 01:45:09.090
is,
1097
01:45:10.030 --> 01:45:13.889
where they do mintgox. We're about to talk about mintgox. Then you can also do twitch.tv/
1098
01:45:16.175 --> 01:45:17.395
zebedee. Io.
1099
01:45:18.255 --> 01:45:25.940
Yep. Subscribe to that. So if you're a Twitch subscriber here, subscribe to all of those. I'm trying to figure out Twitch. I think we can, like, rebroadcast each other. So,
1100
01:45:26.240 --> 01:45:34.175
ideally, what I would like is for Citadel Dispatch's Twitch to just constantly have stats gaming going on. I think, like, that's, like, kind of the policy.
1101
01:45:34.635 --> 01:45:39.680
So I plan to to republish you guys. I I I know that's a possibility. I don't know how that works.
1102
01:45:40.160 --> 01:45:40.820
So if
1103
01:45:41.440 --> 01:45:43.460
you start You can tell me. Show started,
1104
01:45:44.640 --> 01:46:02.789
we already had 2 new advertisers. And if you go to our Twitch right now, you can you can now see all the advertisers that are in the game, which is a pretty cool new feature. Awesome. That's awesome. So now if if your image gets approved, you you directly see it in the game. So we got Bitcoin Bitcoin runners and,
1105
01:46:03.809 --> 01:46:05.110
who was who as well?
1106
01:46:07.105 --> 01:46:11.525
Flip at Bitcoin Magazine. These are 2 new advertisers we just got. I like Flip.
1107
01:46:12.625 --> 01:46:16.300
And the other thing is we got Quinn Solo in the chat, quinsolo.com.
1108
01:46:18.920 --> 01:46:23.099
He has reached out to me. He's a good friend. He wants to do giveaways
1109
01:46:23.875 --> 01:46:24.614
on this show,
1110
01:46:24.994 --> 01:46:27.974
for Bitcoin development, for free open source development.
1111
01:46:28.355 --> 01:46:31.574
I'm not exactly sure how we're gonna do those giveaways yet.
1112
01:46:32.730 --> 01:46:39.630
So I want the freaks to come into the Swinx chat. I want the freaks to reach out to me on DM and Keybase and in this chat right now
1113
01:46:40.005 --> 01:46:44.505
and and and say how we should do those giveaways. We're gonna do them we're gonna start next week,
1114
01:46:45.365 --> 01:46:51.820
and and let's do it in, like, a kosher way. Like, I don't wanna I'm not trying to buy engagement. I don't want retweets. I don't want likes. I don't want subscriptions,
1115
01:46:52.760 --> 01:46:54.620
but I wanna do it in a way that rewards,
1116
01:46:55.080 --> 01:46:57.660
the freaks that join us on Bitcoin Tuesdays live,
1117
01:46:58.455 --> 01:47:03.355
with some cool merch because, what Quinsolo builds over there is is is really fucking dope.
1118
01:47:03.975 --> 01:47:07.275
With all that said, Mint Gox, what the fuck is Mint Gox?
1119
01:47:08.489 --> 01:47:08.989
Alright.
1120
01:47:09.610 --> 01:47:10.670
I'll take this one.
1121
01:47:11.050 --> 01:47:11.550
So
1122
01:47:11.929 --> 01:47:14.750
Mint Gox was a response to to COVID.
1123
01:47:15.130 --> 01:47:16.909
So Zebedee, last year,
1124
01:47:17.275 --> 01:47:20.095
we actually had our technology was ready. We got,
1125
01:47:20.555 --> 01:47:22.735
games to show, and then we're basically,
1126
01:47:23.435 --> 01:47:28.010
at the final stages of planning our conference roadshow where we, you know, we basically,
1127
01:47:28.550 --> 01:47:34.330
go to this conference. We show the technology and and showing it in person and and seeing the reaction of people
1128
01:47:34.635 --> 01:47:53.065
is is instant. Like, when they get it, they get it, and you see this light pop in their head and and they really get the idea of Bitcoin and games and so forth. And then and then everything got canceled. Right? So we we basically got to a point where we needed to to find other ways to show, to showcase what we can do, what what's possible. And so we we decided,
1129
01:47:53.605 --> 01:47:54.105
alongside,
1130
01:47:54.965 --> 01:47:56.825
a few other players, including
1131
01:47:57.330 --> 01:48:04.150
Constantine and Donald Lab, and then, Jack Everett at Thunder Games who creates Bitcoin bound Bitcoin bounce and and turbo 84,
1132
01:48:05.055 --> 01:48:06.355
and then, Desiree,
1133
01:48:06.895 --> 01:48:08.355
Dickerson from Lightning Labs,
1134
01:48:08.655 --> 01:48:12.675
and us at Zebedee. So we basically got together and and decided, you know, we need,
1135
01:48:13.160 --> 01:48:18.780
to be able to to showcase these things. And so what if we created an event that was,
1136
01:48:19.240 --> 01:48:22.140
a little bit more than just, you know, looking at people over hangouts
1137
01:48:22.665 --> 01:48:25.405
and streaming games, but was a little bit more involved.
1138
01:48:26.025 --> 01:48:28.684
But it was geared specifically for gaming with Bitcoin.
1139
01:48:29.145 --> 01:48:29.645
So
1140
01:48:30.210 --> 01:48:33.590
Minkox became started in March of 2020, and now we're,
1141
01:48:33.970 --> 01:48:36.310
we're a year end actually. That's that's insane.
1142
01:48:36.930 --> 01:48:37.430
And,
1143
01:48:38.125 --> 01:48:43.505
it's it's a it's a monthly event that happens on on the last Sunday of every month where we get together,
1144
01:48:43.965 --> 01:48:45.824
audience members, game developers,
1145
01:48:46.205 --> 01:48:55.650
participants, everyone, and and we do a bunch of esports tournaments. So we have an esports tournament for Bitcoin Bounty Hunt every time. We have, esports tournaments for CS GO tour,
1146
01:48:56.170 --> 01:48:59.715
infuse CS GO matches. We have tournaments for Bitcoin rally,
1147
01:49:00.175 --> 01:49:07.390
and and we're, you know, consistently adding more. We have tournaments for Bitcoin Balance and Turbo 84. And so as an audience member, you go to mintgox.com,
1148
01:49:08.090 --> 01:49:08.570
and,
1149
01:49:08.970 --> 01:49:10.750
you you land on this dashboard.
1150
01:49:11.690 --> 01:49:18.594
Right now, you would only see the agenda of the event, but on the day of the event, you you land on this dashboard where you see a stream in the middle,
1151
01:49:19.054 --> 01:49:25.590
and then you have a bunch of tools around it, which are lightning enabled. So you can play games inside of the same stream.
1152
01:49:25.890 --> 01:49:37.655
So you can play Sarutobi, which is a simple game similar to a a a flappy bird type game where you can get, you know, you're basically trying to get farther into the game and and and, you know, there's sats in that game and and coins.
1153
01:49:38.275 --> 01:49:47.720
And you can play, there's a faucet game called sats stacker where it's basically a faucet where people can get involved, and I don't have any stats. No problem. Play stat stacker and get some stats.
1154
01:49:48.340 --> 01:49:53.145
And so what we wanna do is showcase what's what's possible with lightning, and we've been doing that every month.
1155
01:49:54.804 --> 01:49:55.465
And recently,
1156
01:49:56.005 --> 01:50:08.230
we we basically reached a point where all of the prizes that we're giving out total up to 10,000,000 satoshis. So we're talking about, like, point 1 of a Bitcoin. The the next mint gox that we have is this Sunday.
1157
01:50:08.675 --> 01:50:12.055
So today's Tuesday. So next Sunday, 28th, I believe.
1158
01:50:12.595 --> 01:50:13.815
And that's mint gox,
1159
01:50:14.595 --> 01:50:15.095
14.
1160
01:50:15.450 --> 01:50:16.350
So we've done mintgox,
1161
01:50:17.210 --> 01:50:18.670
you know, there's the general mintgox.com.
1162
01:50:18.970 --> 01:50:24.030
We've done 2 or 3 mintgox geared to the Asian market because there's a large demand there too.
1163
01:50:24.525 --> 01:50:37.570
And we hope to expand into the the South American market as there's quite a bit of of demand and and user base there as well. And we're always looking for new game developers. If you have a game that that is using Bitcoin in some way, shape, or form,
1164
01:50:37.870 --> 01:50:41.250
please reach out. We're we're very friendly, and we want to to showcase,
1165
01:50:41.755 --> 01:50:42.815
what what's possible.
1166
01:50:43.995 --> 01:50:48.095
So that's MintGox, and and we've been doing it for a while. I think it's a great way for,
1167
01:50:48.555 --> 01:50:56.760
one one I was saying earlier, one of the big problems that game developers have is unless you're a a big studio that has, you know, budget to to do PR and and marketing,
1168
01:50:57.300 --> 01:51:02.885
you're you're going against the the the the grain here because, like I said, there's, like, hundreds of games deployed,
1169
01:51:03.425 --> 01:51:05.045
every day of every week and,
1170
01:51:05.585 --> 01:51:07.285
that it's just completely saturated.
1171
01:51:07.909 --> 01:51:27.910
But if you have Bitcoin in your game, you now have a dedicated spot where you can, not only test your game, get get testers, get feedback, and so forth. But if your game is ready in its in its at its peak, you know, let's actually host tournaments. Let's actually host users playing because the user base is here. There are plenty of people interested in this in this front and in these Bitcoin enabled games, but,
1172
01:51:28.530 --> 01:51:33.350
you know, we we need we basically need more games. So that's what we're we're helping to do. So,
1173
01:51:33.975 --> 01:51:42.155
I actually just, something that hasn't been announced, but, I I checked with with Mission Control, and I and then, basically, it's okay to talk about it.
1174
01:51:42.880 --> 01:51:44.739
We we are actually hosting,
1175
01:51:45.840 --> 01:51:47.460
basically hosting a 2 day,
1176
01:51:48.000 --> 01:51:50.020
hybrid event at Bitcoin 2021,
1177
01:51:51.115 --> 01:51:51.595
where,
1178
01:51:51.995 --> 01:51:57.775
it's a live there's gonna be a bunch of live things. There's gonna be a bunch of things that you can join remotely.
1179
01:51:58.290 --> 01:52:02.470
There's tournaments for all the games that we talked about. And gonna be doing as fuck.
1180
01:52:02.850 --> 01:52:06.870
Yeah. And without giving too much, we actually have a CS GO tournament where,
1181
01:52:07.555 --> 01:52:09.895
companies can actually sign up for us. So,
1182
01:52:10.275 --> 01:52:16.535
we aim to have, you know, this company versus this company, and we get 5 people aside, and then we have CS GO matches,
1183
01:52:17.080 --> 01:52:28.725
whether it's it's local to to Miami in Bitcoin 2021 or remote because all of all of our systems have a lot of remote people is the plan. Exactly. Yeah. So so that's So I've been actually consulting on the on the Bitcoin Magazine side.
1184
01:52:29.505 --> 01:52:32.005
Oh, I know. I know you knew, so I yeah.
1185
01:52:32.590 --> 01:52:38.370
I mean I mean, but the idea is right? Like, the idea is that we're we're the majority of people are gonna be coming in through remote. Right?
1186
01:52:38.830 --> 01:52:47.110
Yeah. So we'll have, even even some of our, team members are gonna likely gonna be unable to to come, right, because of restrictions and so forth. So,
1187
01:52:47.590 --> 01:52:49.290
we will make it entirely
1188
01:52:49.670 --> 01:52:58.305
hybrid. So you can participate from home, and you can participate from the the event. And, you have the same chances of winning, and you have the same chances of,
1189
01:52:58.845 --> 01:53:05.360
of of participating. So, you know, get if you have friends and you wanna participate in the in the,
1190
01:53:06.080 --> 01:53:15.365
you know, tournaments and the games, you know, start prepping with some friends, and and we can possibly get some teams made. We're gonna announce a lot of these things in the coming weeks,
1191
01:53:15.825 --> 01:53:19.045
but it's it's gonna be an awesome time, man. I'm I'm super excited.
1192
01:53:19.585 --> 01:53:21.445
I mean, it should be the the largest,
1193
01:53:22.600 --> 01:53:23.340
in person
1194
01:53:24.520 --> 01:53:28.060
Bitcoin gaming and power. Esports. Yeah. That's the goal.
1195
01:53:28.440 --> 01:53:32.925
Yeah. So if any company needs a good CS GO player, I'm free. I was
1196
01:53:33.625 --> 01:53:39.804
one below global elite. I'm free What happened, Con? What happened? Why were you just only 1 below?
1197
01:53:40.550 --> 01:53:41.050
Because,
1198
01:53:42.470 --> 01:53:43.210
I don't know.
1199
01:53:43.510 --> 01:53:45.530
I I was too old already.
1200
01:53:45.990 --> 01:53:47.165
No. Probably not.
1201
01:53:47.565 --> 01:53:52.705
Yeah. You you were 16. You're past the age. Yeah. Current age. Yeah. Past the prime age. It
1202
01:53:53.325 --> 01:54:01.099
should be really excited. I I I'm really really pumped for it. There's lots of of prizes. If you like winning Bitcoin, you know, just just get involved. There's,
1203
01:54:01.480 --> 01:54:12.955
plenty of Bitcoin to to be given out. So Are you both coming down for to Miami in Bitcoin 2020? I'm not sure yet. I have I have a lot of FOMO, but, I don't know how it is with regulations,
1204
01:54:13.335 --> 01:54:15.020
travel, and such.
1205
01:54:16.040 --> 01:54:17.260
Yeah. I'll be there
1206
01:54:17.560 --> 01:54:21.739
I'll be there for 10 days. So I'm Yeah. Andre Andre has no regulations,
1207
01:54:22.405 --> 01:54:24.505
to to use as an excuse. So,
1208
01:54:25.845 --> 01:54:38.880
yeah, I I'll I'll be there for 7. So I'm I'm glad to hear that. It's gonna be it's gonna be a fucking good time. If you haven't bought your ticket, use code humble. They did rug pull me. You still get 15% off, which is more than any other public
1209
01:54:39.185 --> 01:54:44.085
QR, public, promo code. But it used to be 21% off to the early freaks.
1210
01:54:46.040 --> 01:54:53.100
But don't worry, it's trending to 0 in terms of Bitcoin. So if you do wait, you you might be able to get it cheaper if it doesn't sell out in the meantime.
1211
01:54:55.395 --> 01:54:58.775
Yeah. So, I mean, I think this has been a great conversation in general.
1212
01:55:00.755 --> 01:55:08.840
I wanna I have 2 more topics that I wanna wanna hit before we end this. It seems like we don't have any, like, freaks. If you have any questions, hit us with questions.
1213
01:55:11.485 --> 01:55:14.545
To the to the people listening via podcast,
1214
01:55:15.325 --> 01:55:16.625
we love all of you.
1215
01:55:17.485 --> 01:55:18.305
Fuck yes.
1216
01:55:19.300 --> 01:55:28.215
Quin Solo wants you to know that he's up for some custom engraving for the freaks if that's the path you wanna go down. I'm I'm literally we're gonna have giveaways
1217
01:55:28.595 --> 01:55:29.335
with Quincello
1218
01:55:30.035 --> 01:55:31.895
to support free open source development,
1219
01:55:32.275 --> 01:55:53.800
and I want the Freaks to decide how that goes. So I don't know if other shows do that, but this is how I wanna fucking do it. Quinn Solo seems like up. He's up for the task. He makes, like, my favorite flask. My favorite flask has the tales from the Crip logo on it. It says Matt O'Dell. It's from Quinn Solo. It's the fucking best flask ever. Everyone's like, you're so conceited. I'm like, I'm not conceited. He sent it to me. I'm just trying to
1220
01:55:54.500 --> 01:55:56.985
I'm I'm I'm trying to rep what the freak sent me.
1221
01:55:57.625 --> 01:56:01.165
But, it it it's he he has dope products. So
1222
01:56:01.945 --> 01:56:03.005
don't be shy.
1223
01:56:03.625 --> 01:56:04.364
Tell us,
1224
01:56:04.750 --> 01:56:07.889
you know, what what what do you think we should go with that.
1225
01:56:08.269 --> 01:56:19.735
We we may we may need to to partner with them. We're we're getting swagged for conference now. We may need to talk to them. Yeah. Let's do that. Quincell is fucking dope. You should you should partner with them. I want our logo on a coaster. That would be pretty
1226
01:56:20.435 --> 01:56:26.119
sick. Yeah. You heard that, Quinn? He's here. He heard that. He'll make it happen. Reach out to them.
1227
01:56:26.500 --> 01:56:27.559
I will. Yeah.
1228
01:56:29.135 --> 01:56:36.195
I was actually telling Quinn to reach out to you. Stay humble, Matt. And I appreciate that, Quinn. Quinn Quinn told me to stay humble to all the podcast people.
1229
01:56:38.390 --> 01:56:41.690
So so the 2 things I wanted to talk about was, first of all,
1230
01:56:42.950 --> 01:56:45.690
it looks like people have dropped off a little bit,
1231
01:56:46.165 --> 01:56:47.605
here on the live on the live element.
1232
01:56:49.445 --> 01:56:54.025
They're getting a little upset that we're not talking about the most important Bitcoin fundamental.
1233
01:56:55.020 --> 01:56:59.280
So we're gonna have to save that for all the freaks that have have been here till,
1234
01:56:59.820 --> 01:57:01.440
you know, the ride or die freaks.
1235
01:57:03.665 --> 01:57:05.765
Both of you, I wanna hear,
1236
01:57:06.625 --> 01:57:07.845
we'll start with Khan.
1237
01:57:08.465 --> 01:57:11.205
Do you believe that Bitcoin is designed to pump forever?
1238
01:57:13.400 --> 01:57:16.540
Yeah. I think so. I mean, I only
1239
01:57:17.640 --> 01:57:26.735
I don't know. Yeah. It'll pump forever. We will make sure of it of it. I'm not a supporter. Contrary to to Andre, I'm not a supporter of stock to flow,
1240
01:57:27.489 --> 01:57:35.270
but it will it will go up forever. I'm in for the long run. Our players are in for the long run.
1241
01:57:35.645 --> 01:57:40.065
The Minsk's prize pools will be the biggest prize pools in esports history.
1242
01:57:40.525 --> 01:57:40.765
So
1243
01:57:41.405 --> 01:57:44.065
Yes. A 100%. We we made millionaires.
1244
01:57:44.445 --> 01:57:45.005
Right? So
1245
01:57:45.710 --> 01:57:46.210
Yeah.
1246
01:57:46.510 --> 01:57:53.410
It's gonna in in in hindsight, people are gonna look back there and be like, oh my god. I can't believe I didn't fucking participate in that. It was so good.
1247
01:57:54.935 --> 01:58:01.320
Sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. We had we had a, I was saying we had a 15, 16 year old or something like that that,
1248
01:58:01.880 --> 01:58:07.179
he he even asked his his dad permission. And he was like, can I play on this thing? Is this for real?
1249
01:58:07.719 --> 01:58:09.340
And he won, you know, 600,000
1250
01:58:09.800 --> 01:58:20.980
sats, and it's, like, insane because in 2 years, 3 years' time, he's gonna look back and be like, what were you doing this day in 2021? He's like, I was just making millions playing 15 minutes of CS GO, You know?
1251
01:58:21.760 --> 01:58:24.660
So I I fully support that that notion that
1252
01:58:26.160 --> 01:58:28.180
yeah. Fucking legend, Niamh.
1253
01:58:28.645 --> 01:58:29.705
Legend there.
1254
01:58:30.085 --> 01:58:31.865
Fucking legend. I love it.
1255
01:58:32.325 --> 01:58:35.785
So so, Andre, do you agree you're agreeing that it's designed to pump forever?
1256
01:58:37.240 --> 01:58:41.500
Yes. To a certain extent. Mostly and and the extent is,
1257
01:58:42.360 --> 01:58:46.380
the the the base of money. Like, how much money is there
1258
01:58:46.735 --> 01:58:51.155
in in the world? Okay. So so, Andre, so the question is when fiat dies,
1259
01:58:51.695 --> 01:58:54.525
so obviously okay. When we enter a hyperinflation,
1260
01:58:54.890 --> 01:58:58.270
like, obviously, Bitcoin's gonna continue to pump in terms of shitty money.
1261
01:58:59.050 --> 01:59:03.550
But then after that money dies and and Bitcoin becomes a global reserve currency
1262
01:59:04.035 --> 01:59:05.815
and everything is priced in Sats,
1263
01:59:06.915 --> 01:59:11.415
does not does the purchasing power of your Sats not increase forever?
1264
01:59:13.490 --> 01:59:21.045
Does the purchasing power of my Sats in a world where Bitcoin is the sole, you know, global currency reserve, whatever you wanna call it,
1265
01:59:21.765 --> 01:59:24.905
given its finite nature, I I would agree because the economy
1266
01:59:25.364 --> 01:59:37.830
will grow. There's always more, you know, quote unquote. There's always more people in part of the economy. So there's more purchasing power. So, yes. In in short, if if that is the future you're you're talking about, yes, it will ultimately future we expect. Right?
1267
01:59:38.165 --> 01:59:54.050
Yeah. Totally. Totally. I so I support I support that notion. It's important for you both to realize that, like, all 24 guests that came before you guys have had to answer this question as well. This is an important aspect. I I'm I'm Matt O'Dell providing a technical podcast technical focus podcast
1268
01:59:54.554 --> 01:59:57.455
that that also asks this question every single episode,
1269
01:59:58.074 --> 01:59:59.534
which I think is a nice mix.
1270
01:59:59.835 --> 02:00:01.614
So and then my second question
1271
02:00:01.915 --> 02:00:03.855
is is way more difficult question
1272
02:00:04.220 --> 02:00:06.160
and is, very specific to gaming,
1273
02:00:06.860 --> 02:00:08.560
and it would behoove me to
1274
02:00:09.020 --> 02:00:10.320
to not mention this.
1275
02:00:12.785 --> 02:00:13.765
Gaming addiction.
1276
02:00:14.225 --> 02:00:16.005
Where do we fall in gaming addiction?
1277
02:00:16.305 --> 02:00:20.245
We I feel like we need to talk about this. Like, we can't be talking about people fucking
1278
02:00:21.410 --> 02:00:23.590
killing each other in games for sats,
1279
02:00:24.210 --> 02:00:27.030
playing Mario Kart for sats. I know I pronounced it poorly
1280
02:00:27.730 --> 02:00:28.715
without talking about gaming addiction. Where do you guys stand on this, like, what what are we supposed to do? There
1281
02:00:36.300 --> 02:00:41.520
And they are addicted without sats. Maybe they will be with with sats. I think it's
1282
02:00:43.315 --> 02:00:49.495
fix the money, fix the world kind of problem maybe. So if we have SUDs in game, maybe monetization
1283
02:00:49.875 --> 02:00:53.980
will be fixed. I don't know. So I see it as a issue that is
1284
02:00:54.440 --> 02:00:54.940
not
1285
02:00:56.440 --> 02:00:59.579
not linked to having sats in the game. However,
1286
02:01:00.375 --> 02:01:08.394
I personally see that sats in the game ups the toxicity of of gaming by a lot. I don't know what you see, Andre, but
1287
02:01:09.400 --> 02:01:16.860
I don't see addiction as a as a problem to with combined with SUDs, but I see toxicity as a big problem when you have money on the
1288
02:01:17.375 --> 02:01:18.195
on the line.
1289
02:01:19.375 --> 02:01:50.880
Yeah. I my view is very similar. I think it it goes hand in hand with a lot of Bitcoin critics that try to say, you know, oh, Bitcoin doesn't solve x. And it's like but it it never really had to or wanted to solve x. It solves y and z, but it like, why is the the technology meant to solve every societal problem all of a sudden? Right? The incumbents didn't solve all the problems, so why why is Bitcoin expected to solve every single problem? But I think it solves one of the core problems, which, you know, trickles down into solving other problems. We were saying fix the money, fix fix the world. But,
1290
02:01:51.420 --> 02:02:00.285
I I don't know that it'll make addiction, you know, quote unquote easier in the sense of gaming because, you know, now there's money, so people are gonna stick around. I think,
1291
02:02:00.765 --> 02:02:07.400
Constantine nailed it. Like, there's addiction in gaming right now, and and I think there will be in when stats are involved, I think,
1292
02:02:08.100 --> 02:02:12.535
it's it the stakes may be higher. So what you may end up seeing is is,
1293
02:02:13.175 --> 02:02:13.735
you know, a
1294
02:02:14.375 --> 02:02:17.114
basically, there's there's more at stake when,
1295
02:02:17.495 --> 02:02:23.350
you're quote unquote an an a game addict and and you lose sats rather than just losing a match.
1296
02:02:23.969 --> 02:02:27.415
So I'm sure there's gonna be problems just like just like there is right now.
1297
02:02:27.815 --> 02:02:32.395
But I don't know that that Sats are the the reason why it'll, you know, dramatically
1298
02:02:32.855 --> 02:02:33.895
improve or,
1299
02:02:34.695 --> 02:02:42.440
completely ruin that that whole scenario, and everyone is now suddenly in a game attic. I I don't know that it plays that much of a of a part, at least initially.
1300
02:02:42.820 --> 02:02:46.735
I think once everything is is monetized and there's sats everywhere,
1301
02:02:47.114 --> 02:02:49.215
you know, I possibly, who knows?
1302
02:02:49.594 --> 02:02:53.375
I don't know that it's injecting infusing sats does not make,
1303
02:02:54.440 --> 02:02:57.340
you know, gamer an addict, in my opinion, at least.
1304
02:02:57.720 --> 02:02:59.020
Yeah. I mean, I
1305
02:03:00.040 --> 02:03:01.835
I will defend both of you as well,
1306
02:03:02.235 --> 02:03:05.455
because I wouldn't ask the question otherwise. I mean but, otherwise,
1307
02:03:05.835 --> 02:03:07.295
me answering the question.
1308
02:03:07.835 --> 02:03:13.350
I I mean, I think game game addiction exists already, and they just automatically lose money,
1309
02:03:13.650 --> 02:03:15.190
so at least they can win money.
1310
02:03:15.730 --> 02:03:21.110
And then for gamblers, like, those gamblers already exist. They might move over to to
1311
02:03:21.925 --> 02:03:23.864
video game based gambling or something,
1312
02:03:24.244 --> 02:03:28.425
but they're already gambling on other things. Like, it's not like some like, when someone who's a gambling,
1313
02:03:29.370 --> 02:03:32.090
like, who's addicted to gambling is going to to,
1314
02:03:33.610 --> 02:03:38.030
realize it because your game offers it. They're already addicted to gambling. They're already
1315
02:03:39.225 --> 02:03:39.725
Agreed.
1316
02:03:40.105 --> 02:03:51.520
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. A 100%. I don't think I I think it changes game dynamics, incentives, and all the things. I don't think it's the sole reason why things will change drastically when it comes to gaming addiction. But it is important
1317
02:03:51.900 --> 02:03:53.520
from a publisher,
1318
02:03:54.205 --> 02:03:57.505
you know, developer point of view, right, that that you should
1319
02:03:57.885 --> 02:04:02.465
if you if we wanna talk about ethical development, right, like, you should, in a way,
1320
02:04:02.980 --> 02:04:04.280
incorporate that into
1321
02:04:04.820 --> 02:04:11.960
the structure of whatever games you're producing. Right? Is that is that you should be trying to provide some kind of education, like, please don't.
1322
02:04:12.775 --> 02:04:14.235
If you're talking about ethical,
1323
02:04:15.015 --> 02:04:31.040
dilemma, then, like, why don't they care about the ethics of only receiving value into the game? Like, they don't care about the players. Game developers don't care about the players right now, especially for the large large game studios. So if we're talking about That's what I'm saying. Right, Andre? Yeah. It's like, there's like a dark there's a dark undertone in gaming
1324
02:04:31.385 --> 02:04:43.770
that it's very much attention focused. Right? And it's this idea that you want to you want to gather as much attention as possible from your user base. So you're literally trying to get them addicted to your game. That that that is
1325
02:04:44.170 --> 02:04:47.230
currently, that is the model. The the current model is
1326
02:04:47.795 --> 02:04:51.094
I want you playing all the fucking time. Yep.
1327
02:04:52.275 --> 02:05:02.280
Without without getting anything out of this other than, you know, quote unquote entertainment. Right? Let's call that entertainment, if you will, but it's it's a little more dark dark than that.
1328
02:05:02.820 --> 02:05:05.975
But if I I agree. But if there's something in return,
1329
02:05:06.915 --> 02:05:10.055
I think it changes a little bit. And and if we're talking about ethics,
1330
02:05:10.515 --> 02:05:13.015
you know, a 100% agree with you that,
1331
02:05:13.500 --> 02:05:15.920
that there is this expectation. Like, let me create
1332
02:05:16.220 --> 02:05:18.560
the game that has the perfect structure
1333
02:05:18.940 --> 02:05:22.720
so that I create the incentive so that people play it all the time.
1334
02:05:23.465 --> 02:05:27.005
And and it's not too too dissimilar to the the Bitcoin,
1335
02:05:27.385 --> 02:05:42.005
network structure where, you know, it's the incentive structures are aligned such that everyone plays their part and and they're drastically penalized if they go out of the, you know, the constraints or the consensus or whatever, and you get forked off and and and, you know, lose their coins or something. So
1336
02:05:42.485 --> 02:05:46.824
I hope we don't we don't get to that, but I I think Right. Adding stats to games, you know, it
1337
02:05:47.205 --> 02:05:48.905
it it again, it changes dynamics.
1338
02:05:49.500 --> 02:06:17.535
But I don't know that it it will change the view of, you know, we want you to play all the time. I think they will still have that, but you'll possibly get some value out of it. Right? It's like the Bitcoin energy argument. Right? It's like all of a sudden, like, you just wanna you wanna you wanna say, like, Bitcoin can't use the energy, but you never fucking got mad at any of the other fucking energy usage. And it's like so you you wanna say you wanna say that that sats in a game is gonna make you more addicted. But meanwhile,
1339
02:06:18.155 --> 02:06:24.095
everyone who's making a TV series or making a modern video game or making
1340
02:06:24.860 --> 02:06:30.160
any kind of attention. They're they're all trying to drive your attention into whatever they're doing. Right?
1341
02:06:30.700 --> 02:06:40.545
And and to to to pull off a a comment here, it says, Quin Solis, it's sat inside an RPG. Totally changes it for me. I'm incentivized to show up and actually complete the tasks, not just
1342
02:06:41.130 --> 02:07:06.719
murder hobo murder hobo for funds. I think it's totally true. Right? Like, if if all of a sudden the money that you have in your wallet, like, in real life is the same money that you have in the game, like, wouldn't you care so much more about your character? Wouldn't you think twice about, like, going on a random expedition or or like a guild with your friends to, like, and and beat this boss. Because if you lose, you actually lose fat. So you you basically care a lot more. Whether that leads to addiction or not is a different matter, but, I think,
1343
02:07:07.125 --> 02:07:09.945
like, it it'll start it's what I was saying earlier. It'll stop being
1344
02:07:10.325 --> 02:07:29.065
so okay to die on a CSO match because, you know, I just respawn and that's fine. Right. And it'll be it'll be like there's actually things on the line here. If I if I don't play correctly, if I don't make my moves correctly, I I get penalized here. I mean, I specifically with gaming, the most important thing is, like, the status quo is, like, it's completely cool for you to lose a shit ton on money gaming.
1345
02:07:29.380 --> 02:07:31.480
But, like, there's no way for you to make any
1346
02:07:31.860 --> 02:07:32.600
money. Yeah.
1347
02:07:33.220 --> 02:07:33.720
Exactly.
1348
02:07:35.940 --> 02:07:37.080
Agreed. Agreed.
1349
02:07:37.505 --> 02:07:42.485
Totally agree. Based on con yeah. Based on con's, fucking song. He a 100% agrees.
1350
02:07:43.105 --> 02:07:48.350
So, I mean, I think this was a fantastic conversation. I really enjoyed it. I think this conversation is gonna age
1351
02:07:48.890 --> 02:07:49.390
fucking
1352
02:07:49.850 --> 02:07:50.350
beautifully.
1353
02:07:50.890 --> 02:07:53.550
I think I think people are gonna look back on this shit,
1354
02:07:54.075 --> 02:08:00.335
like, our grandkids are gonna look back on this shit. They're gonna be like, oh my god. Like, they were talking about things that were so fucking obvious.
1355
02:08:00.850 --> 02:08:07.190
You know, it's like it's gonna be like those videos where they're like, oh, they're talking about Amazon in 97, and they're like, oh, Bitcoin.
1356
02:08:07.570 --> 02:08:17.835
They're Bitcoin. Yeah. They're, oh, oh, book bookstore. They're gonna be a bookstore online, all this shit. Right. And that's what this conversation is gonna be like, so I really appreciate you both joining us.
1357
02:08:18.690 --> 02:08:20.310
I think people aren't really
1358
02:08:20.930 --> 02:08:22.470
they they don't really understand,
1359
02:08:23.330 --> 02:08:26.525
like, this is this is the the the you
1360
02:08:26.905 --> 02:08:28.364
are gonna be completely
1361
02:08:29.625 --> 02:08:42.400
they're just gonna they're gonna be onboarded to Sats, and it's gonna be the most natural fucking thing ever. Like, they're not even gonna think twice about it. Like, it's just gonna be, you know, they love playing games, they're gonna play games,
1362
02:08:42.844 --> 02:08:49.425
They're gonna wager SATs on those games. They're gonna win SATs. They're gonna lose SATs, and SATs are just gonna quickly become the standard to them
1363
02:08:50.650 --> 02:08:57.870
before they even have a bank account. They're not gonna have a bank account. They're not gonna be spending money. They're not gonna be taking care of their wife and their kids and shit.
1364
02:08:58.195 --> 02:09:08.510
They're not gonna have a job. They're gonna be fucking earning and losing sats before all of that, and that's just in their head is gonna become the unit of account. Like, this
1365
02:09:09.410 --> 02:09:09.910
it
1366
02:09:10.250 --> 02:09:10.750
unfathomable.
1367
02:09:11.849 --> 02:09:12.489
If I
1368
02:09:13.130 --> 02:09:16.345
totally. And if I can just add some some anecdotes here. I think,
1369
02:09:17.305 --> 02:09:23.645
with with the release of the of the bots that we did, they got added to some some gaming, Discords that that I've seen, and,
1370
02:09:24.185 --> 02:09:28.670
I think it's it's it's in I don't know how else to explain it. It's so clear
1371
02:09:29.050 --> 02:09:29.550
when,
1372
02:09:29.930 --> 02:09:36.190
you know, you see these teens and and gamers. I don't even know if they're teens they're Discord users, but you see these gamers.
1373
02:09:36.795 --> 02:09:39.375
They don't actually really know what sats are,
1374
02:09:39.915 --> 02:09:46.890
but they know they want them and they know that they they want they can get them somehow here and there and playing games and so forth.
1375
02:09:47.430 --> 02:09:49.530
And and because they already see,
1376
02:09:49.990 --> 02:09:56.465
the value in, like, your jewels and your diamonds and your singhs and your v bucks and like, they understand the notion of unit of accounts.
1377
02:09:57.005 --> 02:10:00.705
With the bot, you were, like, you know, z send a 100. Right? And
1378
02:10:01.180 --> 02:10:07.360
a 100 sats to us is like, oh, 100 sats. You know, it's fine. Whatever. It's it's it's a it's a tiny tiny 0¢ amount.
1379
02:10:07.900 --> 02:10:23.010
To them, whenever we send, you know, 200 sats, it's a gigantic amount because it's 200. So to them, the the SATs to a lot of people that we're seeing is, like, it already is the cumulative account. It's just like, oh my god. You sent me 2,000 SAPs? This is amazing. So for for us,
1380
02:10:23.390 --> 02:10:28.850
we re like at Zebedee, we really believe that the first, you know, economic interactions that people have,
1381
02:10:29.415 --> 02:10:47.195
are actually in games. It just happens to be with money that is siloed inside of, you know, the game economy that doesn't do anything else. But I think the first economic interactions that people have in in a real value transfer is through games. Now imagine if that money was actually the money power in the world. Right? And and that's what we wanna see the future of. So,
1382
02:10:47.835 --> 02:10:56.100
I'm very I'm very hopeful. Of course, I'm biased. I'm running a company on the on this industry, but, I I think Biased as fuck, bro. Yeah.
1383
02:10:56.800 --> 02:10:57.940
I think it's clear.
1384
02:10:58.400 --> 02:11:00.260
It's what you were saying, like, the 9090
1385
02:11:00.800 --> 02:11:05.325
9 whatever, Amazon video. I think for us, it's clear. And I think once people,
1386
02:11:06.265 --> 02:11:29.055
you know, wake up and realize it, it it will already be the reality. It will already be in a bunch of games, and it will already be omnipresent and and and, you know, around everywhere. And I think we're gonna see that in the next 5 years. Bitcoin is just gonna be virtually everywhere. Like, I'm a big believer that the the the velocity of the Bitcoin, quote unquote, revolution is even faster than the Internet revolution
1387
02:11:29.590 --> 02:11:36.490
because I think, the the Bitcoin revolution is enabled by the Internet revolution, which basically allows, you know, instantaneous
1388
02:11:36.950 --> 02:11:54.659
information transfer around the world where whereas when the Internet came about, that wasn't the case. Right? So I think Bitcoin's velocity is much higher. I think in 5 years' time, we're we're gonna be looking back at at this interview like you're saying and saying, oh my god, these guys were visionaries. But really to us, it's it's very clear. I think it's it's a very clear proposition here.
1389
02:11:56.405 --> 02:11:57.385
Totally agree.
1390
02:11:59.205 --> 02:12:08.970
However, I think, lie like like you said, gaming and lightning is like this match made in heaven, and it was very hyped in the beginning of lightning. And now it's I think
1391
02:12:09.350 --> 02:12:12.730
it went down a little bit, but I think as soon as there's this one
1392
02:12:13.035 --> 02:12:19.054
gaming use case for lightning, which will blow everything up, I think it's coming soon. Priced in, bro.
1393
02:12:19.435 --> 02:12:20.975
It's not priced in exactly.
1394
02:12:21.600 --> 02:12:23.380
It's like the next halving. Right?
1395
02:12:24.240 --> 02:12:28.820
People have no idea. Like, all the other cycles were were just shitcoiners
1396
02:12:29.120 --> 02:12:31.220
trying to make shitcoins for gaming.
1397
02:12:31.955 --> 02:12:35.415
You know? Yep. And they were all trying to create all their different shitcoin bullshits.
1398
02:12:36.835 --> 02:12:42.060
And then this cycle is different. This cycle, we have real we have you guys,
1399
02:12:42.760 --> 02:12:44.699
you know, we have we have Thunder Games
1400
02:12:45.080 --> 02:12:47.739
involved. Like, we we have all all these different
1401
02:12:48.764 --> 02:12:54.625
people that are that are working towards actually putting Sats in the games, and I think, like, people are just not really appreciating it.
1402
02:12:55.920 --> 02:12:59.539
Right. I I I just wanted to thank both of you for joining us, and,
1403
02:13:01.199 --> 02:13:05.925
I mean, I I think it's it's about time to wrap this up, but I I just want to, like
1404
02:13:06.385 --> 02:13:22.760
everything you guys are working towards is just I've I've fully wholeheartedly support it. I'm very excited about it. I'm excited to take stats for my future children and my future grandkids. I my future grandkids will probably take stats for me when we game, but I will absolutely destroy my children
1405
02:13:23.835 --> 02:13:24.815
when we game.
1406
02:13:25.915 --> 02:13:28.575
Do you have any final comments for the freaks before we leave?
1407
02:13:29.755 --> 02:13:33.400
Yeah. I I start. Thanks for having us, and thanks for always
1408
02:13:34.020 --> 02:13:37.860
increasing. Or I don't know if it's you, but you some someone always increases,
1409
02:13:38.180 --> 02:13:41.080
your sponsorship in our game, so thank you for that.
1410
02:13:41.605 --> 02:13:46.905
And, yeah, I'm I'm very hyped to be part of this lightning gaming revolution alongside
1411
02:13:47.605 --> 02:13:52.219
Andre, Zebedee, Thunder Games, Satoshi's Games. Yeah. I'm very excited
1412
02:13:52.760 --> 02:13:54.619
for the future and what's to come.
1413
02:13:56.760 --> 02:14:04.705
Yeah. For for my side, you know, definitely thanks for for having us, and and I think gaming and lightning is is a very bright future that we have. But,
1414
02:14:05.185 --> 02:14:10.450
specifically, Matt, I think, you know, thanks for for asking the hard questions. I think someone has to. And,
1415
02:14:10.910 --> 02:14:17.855
if people aren't pressured and aren't challenged, you know, we we never move forward. You said it yourself earlier is that the challenges are the innovators.
1416
02:14:18.475 --> 02:14:30.330
So there are gonna be challenges ahead. There are gonna be, you know, battles and wars, but we we will thrive as Bitcoin always has. And, we're gonna come come, come out as winners at the end of, of the tunnel. So,
1417
02:14:31.030 --> 02:14:39.595
again, like, thanks for for for having us here. But, in general, thanks for for being caps lock Odell and, asking the questions that people want asked.
1418
02:14:40.055 --> 02:14:47.210
Fuck. Yes. I've been feeling a little bit lowercase lately, but that just kinda confused me if I if I if I could partake in a pun.
1419
02:14:47.750 --> 02:14:50.810
I just wanted to thank all the freaks for joining us live.
1420
02:14:51.670 --> 02:14:57.645
You freaks make Bitcoin Tuesdays what it is, and I also wanna thank the freaks that are joining us after the fact.
1421
02:14:58.985 --> 02:15:02.920
Youfreaks also make Bitcoin Tuesday what it is in a different way.
1422
02:15:03.719 --> 02:15:06.219
I want you guys to both follow these guys.
1423
02:15:06.760 --> 02:15:07.980
We have at AndreNeves,
1424
02:15:09.400 --> 02:15:14.675
a n d r e n e v e s, on Twitter. We have at sputnicksputnoneckon
1425
02:15:19.295 --> 02:15:19.795
Twitter.
1426
02:15:20.220 --> 02:15:22.560
I see. Both those things are in show notes.
1427
02:15:23.740 --> 02:15:25.040
I love all you freaks.
1428
02:15:25.820 --> 02:15:39.625
Just, you know, don't let the no corners, like, fuck around with you on this tiny little dip. Right? Like, everyone who I'm trying to convince to fucking stack are all, like, oh, we're going down to 40. I'm just, like, just stack. Just fucking keep stacking. I'm just telling you guys to stack. Just fucking do it.
1429
02:15:40.929 --> 02:15:45.429
Next week, I don't know who we're gonna have yet, so I'm not gonna tease who we're gonna have yet.
1430
02:15:45.810 --> 02:15:47.925
But I'm I'm pretty excited for it
1431
02:15:48.485 --> 02:15:49.364
just in general.
1432
02:15:50.965 --> 02:15:58.010
I I really do there's, like, a lot of in fighting on Twitter right now. I just you know, I I wish the friendly fire was a little bit reduced.
1433
02:15:58.870 --> 02:16:00.170
I agree with 99%
1434
02:16:00.550 --> 02:16:04.650
of every single BitCorner on Twitter, like, real BitCorner, not ChickCorner,
1435
02:16:05.345 --> 02:16:12.165
on Twitter. So I I wish that was a little bit reduced, but I I'm also a little bit guilty of that. So I do take responsibility there.
1436
02:16:13.350 --> 02:16:15.370
I hope to see you all at Bitcoin 2021.
1437
02:16:16.070 --> 02:16:17.130
We will have,
1438
02:16:18.630 --> 02:16:19.930
RHR on Thursday
1439
02:16:20.265 --> 02:16:27.245
as is tradition. Marty will never commit to a specific time, unlike the dispatch, but we're aiming for 3:30 EST.
1440
02:16:29.590 --> 02:16:30.090
UTC,
1441
02:16:30.710 --> 02:16:33.450
that should be oh my god. I'm gonna fuck this up.
1442
02:16:33.910 --> 02:16:34.550
What is,
1443
02:16:34.870 --> 02:16:35.370
1930?
1444
02:16:37.095 --> 02:16:37.595
1930?
1445
02:16:38.055 --> 02:16:38.555
18:30
1446
02:16:38.855 --> 02:16:39.355
UTC,
1447
02:16:40.215 --> 02:16:40.875
I think.
1448
02:16:42.295 --> 02:16:44.170
Just fucking did that off the top of my head.
1449
02:16:45.130 --> 02:16:49.710
And so join us for that, and then join us back on Tuesday for 21 100 UTC,
1450
02:16:51.345 --> 02:16:58.404
for the next Citadel Dispatch. Let's fucking go. Stay humble, Stack Sats. I love you all. Thank you to Andre. Thank you to Khan.
1451
02:16:59.024 --> 02:17:03.100
You guys are fucking killing it. Let's fucking just do this shit. Cheers.
1452
02:17:03.720 --> 02:17:05.340
Cheers. Thanks, Matt. Cheers.
1453
02:20:36.870 --> 02:20:39.610
Oh, freaks. I love you. We're the only ones left.
1454
02:20:40.710 --> 02:20:42.410
We're gonna fucking run this shit.
1455
02:20:42.926 --> 02:20:44.865
I'm looking forward to doing it along
1456
02:20:45.245 --> 02:20:46.545
along all of you,
1457
02:20:47.085 --> 02:20:53.329
and I'll see you on Thursday for rabbit hole recap. And I'll see you next Tuesday for sizzle dispatch 15.
1458
02:20:54.189 --> 02:20:58.369
If you want to provide suggestions on who the next guest should be,
1459
02:20:59.305 --> 02:21:02.125
come into our Sphinx tribe and let us know,
1460
02:21:02.904 --> 02:21:05.564
specifically this little dispatch, Sphinx tribe,
1461
02:21:06.250 --> 02:21:09.630
and, let's have fun with it. Stay humble. Stack stats.
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:33:37 PM
Duration: 8471.275
Channels: 1
1
00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.100
2
00:00:04.799 --> 00:00:07.940
we tend to establish the equivalence with cash,
3
00:00:08.975 --> 00:00:11.315
and there is a huge difference there.
4
00:00:12.095 --> 00:00:13.375
For example, in cash,
5
00:00:14.014 --> 00:00:15.955
we don't know, for example, who's using
6
00:00:16.440 --> 00:00:17.180
a $100
7
00:00:17.560 --> 00:00:21.580
bill today. We don't know who is using a 1,000 peso bill today.
8
00:00:22.520 --> 00:00:24.940
A a key difference in with the CBDC
9
00:00:25.965 --> 00:00:28.225
is that Central Bank will have
10
00:00:28.685 --> 00:00:29.905
absolute control
11
00:00:30.525 --> 00:00:31.985
on the rules and regulations
12
00:00:32.365 --> 00:00:34.864
that will determine the use of that
13
00:00:35.530 --> 00:00:37.870
expression of Central Bank Liability.
14
00:00:38.730 --> 00:00:40.989
And also, we will have the technology
15
00:00:41.290 --> 00:00:42.350
to enforce that.
16
00:00:42.795 --> 00:00:45.615
Those are those two issues are extremely
17
00:00:46.075 --> 00:00:50.315
important, and that makes a huge difference with respect to what,
18
00:00:50.875 --> 00:00:52.550
to what cash is.
19
00:01:34.770 --> 00:01:40.235
20
00:01:40.775 --> 00:01:45.040
Thank you all for joining us once again. You're the ones who make Bitcoin Tuesday
21
00:01:45.500 --> 00:01:46.560
what it is.
22
00:01:47.100 --> 00:01:50.000
Citadel Dispatch, the interactive live show about Bitcoin
23
00:01:50.380 --> 00:01:51.200
for Bitcoiners.
24
00:01:52.104 --> 00:01:53.564
This is episode 14,
25
00:01:54.104 --> 00:01:55.005
Block 675990.
26
00:01:56.825 --> 00:01:59.645
I'm joined here by Andre Neves and Sputnik.
27
00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:02.380
We're gonna call him Khan for the rest of this episode.
28
00:02:03.479 --> 00:02:09.495
I'm very excited to have both these guys here. We will be focused mostly on lightning and its
29
00:02:09.815 --> 00:02:11.915
interaction with the video game world.
30
00:02:13.174 --> 00:02:15.915
I'm pretty excited about this. I think it's gonna be a
31
00:02:16.670 --> 00:02:17.489
killer conversation.
32
00:02:18.269 --> 00:02:19.489
Before I get there,
33
00:02:19.950 --> 00:02:25.010
that clip you heard in the beginning, if you're joining us via audio only through our podcast feeds,
34
00:02:25.495 --> 00:02:28.715
was Agustin Carstens of the Bank of International Settlements.
35
00:02:29.575 --> 00:02:30.075
Apparently,
36
00:02:30.695 --> 00:02:38.250
this is a a bank that I I don't think anyone really knows exists unless you're a big corner, and then we're obsessed with it. But it's like a bank of banks,
37
00:02:38.950 --> 00:02:41.210
and that was a clip from October 2020,
38
00:02:42.085 --> 00:02:45.305
where he basically laid out the plan to get rid of cash,
39
00:02:46.085 --> 00:02:49.065
so that they can track us with their, like, totalitarian
40
00:02:49.445 --> 00:02:50.425
stable coins,
41
00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:52.420
which they like calling now CBDCs,
42
00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:55.780
but I don't it's like they just like to have nomenclature
43
00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:56.640
there. So,
44
00:02:57.280 --> 00:02:58.395
I mean, that's just
45
00:02:59.355 --> 00:03:03.135
it it surfaced it surfaced this week on Bitcoin Twitter. It seemed,
46
00:03:03.915 --> 00:03:08.940
a pretty obvious talking point, and I just wanted to surface that here on the show for you freaks.
47
00:03:10.200 --> 00:03:15.180
As you know, if you're a return freak, you're able to access the show via Twitch,
48
00:03:15.635 --> 00:03:18.055
Twitter, YouTube. That's all live
49
00:03:18.515 --> 00:03:19.975
on Tuesdays at 21:100
50
00:03:20.275 --> 00:03:30.440
UTC. You can also access it via our 2 podcast feeds, whether that's the Tales from the Crypt feed or the dedicated Citadel dispatch feed. You just search those in your favorite podcast apps.
51
00:03:31.380 --> 00:03:35.534
We're also now on Sphinx chat, which is a lightning powered,
52
00:03:37.114 --> 00:03:38.095
lightning powered
53
00:03:38.795 --> 00:03:41.330
everything application that allows you to chat,
54
00:03:41.730 --> 00:03:43.190
with encryption and also,
55
00:03:43.730 --> 00:03:52.215
stream stats while listening to podcasts. There's a tales from the crypt tribe in there and also a dedicated SIL dispatch tribe. Not sure exactly what we're gonna do with the dedicated Zillow
56
00:03:52.515 --> 00:03:53.975
Dispatch Tribe yet, but
57
00:03:54.275 --> 00:03:56.775
I think we can think of some fun things there.
58
00:03:57.235 --> 00:04:00.610
And on that vein as well and you can go to tribes.spinx.chat,
59
00:04:02.590 --> 00:04:03.650
to look those up.
60
00:04:04.270 --> 00:04:09.785
We have about 20 freaks in this. Over 20 freaks in the Citadel dispatch 1 and over 400,
61
00:04:10.965 --> 00:04:15.480
in the tails from the crypt one. So cheers to that, to all the freaks that are already in there.
62
00:04:18.040 --> 00:04:22.540
Yeah. So with all that said, I'd like to introduce our great guests that we have today, our great guest hosts.
63
00:04:23.275 --> 00:04:27.695
I hope you guys came prepared with some good questions for us, and I hope they came ready to answer them.
64
00:04:28.555 --> 00:04:31.400
I guess we'll start with Con. Con, how's it going over there?
65
00:04:32.360 --> 00:04:41.885
66
00:04:42.425 --> 00:04:45.245
I think there's a lot you can ask us, and
67
00:04:45.945 --> 00:04:46.685
I'm excited.
68
00:04:48.699 --> 00:04:50.479
69
00:04:50.860 --> 00:04:51.360
Khan
70
00:04:51.660 --> 00:04:52.160
is,
71
00:04:52.780 --> 00:04:54.720
the founder of Donner Lab.
72
00:04:55.740 --> 00:04:58.400
Andre is the CTO of
73
00:04:59.005 --> 00:04:59.505
Zebedee.
74
00:05:00.685 --> 00:05:03.105
Both of them are focused on introducing
75
00:05:03.565 --> 00:05:05.345
sats into gaming directly,
76
00:05:06.509 --> 00:05:10.210
and that is why they're here. So, Andre, what's up? How's it going?
77
00:05:10.909 --> 00:05:18.165
78
00:05:18.785 --> 00:05:19.765
79
00:05:20.945 --> 00:05:25.410
To the new freaks that are here and to our guests, on the on the screen, we have,
80
00:05:26.270 --> 00:05:31.410
on the top, we have the the evil empire price, we have the Coinbase pro price, and on the bottom,
81
00:05:32.030 --> 00:05:34.245
we have the proper free market. We have Bisq.
82
00:05:34.885 --> 00:05:37.785
So there you go. So with all that said,
83
00:05:38.165 --> 00:05:38.905
I figure
84
00:05:39.525 --> 00:05:45.470
I I I don't really know how to start this conversation, and I I I I feel like the best way to start it is
85
00:05:45.770 --> 00:05:46.270
esports.
86
00:05:46.970 --> 00:05:48.110
We've seen esports
87
00:05:48.490 --> 00:05:52.055
absolutely take off over the last 5 years. It's become a global sensation.
88
00:05:54.514 --> 00:06:02.820
I'm curious. Where do you guys stand on that movement as a whole? Let let forget about Bitcoin for a second. How how do you feel about where esports is currently?
89
00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:05.540
90
00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:06.660
My
91
00:06:07.455 --> 00:06:11.875
experience with esports is I really like watching it, so I think I watch
92
00:06:12.255 --> 00:06:21.979
it weekly or biweekly and for the last 8 years now. So I'm a really big fan of DOTA 2, for example, I watch a lot of years ago. And I think
93
00:06:22.305 --> 00:06:24.725
I think esports is pretty cool. It showcases,
94
00:06:26.065 --> 00:06:26.565
like,
95
00:06:27.025 --> 00:06:28.164
very high skill
96
00:06:28.705 --> 00:06:43.625
in sports. And I don't know if you if you see what player bases are in in Counter Strike, for example, and how how good these players were getting in the last years. I think it's really awesome to watch and how this evolved on Twitch and everything. I think the industry is super interesting.
97
00:06:45.365 --> 00:06:45.865
98
00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:56.395
My take on on esports is that it's, in my opinion, the current currently the biggest driver of of the gaming industry. Right? It's it's 10% growth year over year for the past decade. And,
99
00:06:56.935 --> 00:07:00.634
I think over the last 5, 6, 7 years, esports has really been,
100
00:07:01.060 --> 00:07:03.479
the leading the leading factor there. And so
101
00:07:03.780 --> 00:07:04.979
there's really just one,
102
00:07:05.380 --> 00:07:08.085
aspect of esports that I I'm not a huge fan. And,
103
00:07:08.485 --> 00:07:21.760
it's it's the notion of of, you know, only the best of the best can ever reach that level. It's similar to any sort of sports competition. Right? You're gonna only fear the best, are you gonna be in the Olympics, World Cups, and so forth. But,
104
00:07:22.140 --> 00:07:30.145
I think in in video games, we can, because it's all cloud based, we can actually provide the ability for esports to be more available to,
105
00:07:30.845 --> 00:07:36.860
a larger audience that isn't, well, a larger active audience, right, that isn't just participating by watching.
106
00:07:37.479 --> 00:07:37.979
So
107
00:07:38.280 --> 00:07:46.515
I think that's really the the only thing. But, otherwise, I also have Twitch running on the background all the time, whether it's coding in a meeting or something. So,
108
00:07:46.895 --> 00:07:50.195
yeah, a big fan of watching CS GO, especially since our our release.
109
00:07:51.729 --> 00:07:57.190
110
00:07:58.185 --> 00:08:02.365
I mean, that is not, like, top a 100 in the world. Right? It's like you're watching one of these tournaments,
111
00:08:03.545 --> 00:08:05.110
or you're watching some of the
112
00:08:12.925 --> 00:08:15.505
113
00:08:16.045 --> 00:08:19.105
If you look at it, it's so top heavy, like Andre was saying.
114
00:08:19.965 --> 00:08:20.465
115
00:08:21.320 --> 00:08:23.100
It's it's amazing how,
116
00:08:23.400 --> 00:08:26.940
we have, 2 not to dox anyone, but we have 2 mods in the Infuse,
117
00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:35.555
CS code team that that help us, you know, managing the the servers and so forth. And, they're just on a whole other level. They're so insanely good. And,
118
00:08:36.550 --> 00:08:57.510
and they're not even, you know, at anywhere near the level that some of these guys play at at, esports. So 1 of 2 of them were Global Elites and CS GO and and, you know, played in ECSA and all these things. And, and they're like, no. I'm I'm not even close. I'm not even nearly close. So it there's still a big discrepancy between the top of the the top one one percent, right, the 0.1%
119
00:08:58.290 --> 00:08:59.910
and and the 1%. So,
120
00:09:00.505 --> 00:09:01.945
it's it's really something that's,
121
00:09:02.425 --> 00:09:05.165
more or less unachievable to your general gamer,
122
00:09:05.625 --> 00:09:12.610
123
00:09:13.150 --> 00:09:14.370
at the Fortnite championships.
124
00:09:14.670 --> 00:09:15.170
Right?
125
00:09:15.870 --> 00:09:16.370
Yeah.
126
00:09:16.670 --> 00:09:17.810
127
00:09:18.145 --> 00:09:18.645
It's,
128
00:09:19.665 --> 00:09:32.000
129
00:09:32.300 --> 00:09:34.080
because you're restrained by your physical
130
00:09:34.700 --> 00:09:35.920
tiredness, for example.
131
00:09:36.515 --> 00:09:40.775
132
00:09:42.595 --> 00:09:51.740
You know, and there's a peak age, and it's usually between when you get strong enough versus when you get too old. Right? And I feel like the peak age
133
00:09:52.045 --> 00:09:53.665
for every competitive sport,
134
00:09:54.365 --> 00:10:06.100
except maybe, like, gymnastics or something, like, it's gotta be it's gotta be gaming. Esports has to be, like, one of the lowest peak ages. Like, immediately your reflexes just fucking start dying once you pass, like, 16 years old.
135
00:10:07.040 --> 00:10:13.995
136
00:10:14.535 --> 00:10:25.850
137
00:10:26.415 --> 00:10:31.954
Fortnite's one of the big growing ones now, or I guess it was at least for a while there,
138
00:10:32.255 --> 00:10:39.730
and it's kind of unfair to group everything in together. Right? Like, there there there are there are such different variations across the esports landscape.
139
00:10:40.830 --> 00:10:44.450
140
00:10:44.755 --> 00:10:48.935
saying, you know, all sports are great. It's like, well, there's so many different types and,
141
00:10:49.635 --> 00:11:00.810
and flavors. Yeah. I think I think there's definitely clear types in when it comes to esports around, like, FPS. Right? So you got, like, Valor and CS GO and Fortnite and all these, I guess Fortnite is a little different, but,
142
00:11:01.350 --> 00:11:02.649
you've got these these
143
00:11:02.985 --> 00:11:05.565
FPS heavy. And then you've got your your MMORPGs
144
00:11:05.945 --> 00:11:10.845
or or or or, you know, you're related to DOTA 2 and things like that, which are a little bit more strategy heavy.
145
00:11:11.470 --> 00:11:15.889
I think for the FPS games, the the younger crowd dominates it. And,
146
00:11:16.750 --> 00:11:27.575
yeah, we had not to get too off topic, but we had some people participating in Minkox tournament. And it was like a a 15 year old took the prize. You know? He just, like, was the best one, by far. Like, he just won it all.
147
00:11:28.115 --> 00:11:28.275
So
148
00:11:28.990 --> 00:11:30.209
yeah. It's the new generation.
149
00:11:32.270 --> 00:11:36.930
150
00:11:38.144 --> 00:11:40.565
I'm like first person shooters, and I'm like civilization,
151
00:11:41.265 --> 00:11:42.345
which is, like, completely
152
00:11:42.785 --> 00:11:44.404
it's like the the farthest
153
00:11:44.945 --> 00:11:46.725
variations of gaming possible.
154
00:11:48.220 --> 00:11:54.880
155
00:11:57.105 --> 00:12:02.225
156
00:12:02.785 --> 00:12:05.480
Age of Empires 2. And it's just such a classic.
157
00:12:05.940 --> 00:12:10.279
And and the whole time, I was like, what if this entire economy was based in South? Wouldn't that be awesome?
158
00:12:10.819 --> 00:12:14.535
And so, like, the the imagination goes wild when you're playing these games. Right?
159
00:12:15.555 --> 00:12:17.255
160
00:12:18.515 --> 00:12:20.195
so this has been a a a
161
00:12:21.649 --> 00:12:26.950
I grew up gaming, and I grew up playing first person shooters. And as soon as I discovered Bitcoin,
162
00:12:28.690 --> 00:12:30.149
my immediate thing was,
163
00:12:30.875 --> 00:12:32.255
I want to kill someone
164
00:12:32.715 --> 00:12:34.015
and get paid sats,
165
00:12:34.395 --> 00:12:39.615
and I want when they kill me, I want to lose sats. And, actually, at that time, I hadn't even
166
00:12:40.470 --> 00:12:55.595
I was still I I hadn't matured as a Bitcoiner yet, and I was I wanna get paid Bitcoin, and I wanna I wasn't even at Sats yet. So we weren't it was it was before that, and I was, like, I think, like, some some kid in the other side of the world should be able to spawn camp me,
167
00:12:56.454 --> 00:12:57.834
and and take my money.
168
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And one of the reasons why I wanted to have both of you guys on for the this is the first conversation we've really had centered around gaming,
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is because,
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you know and and it makes sense, like, in a in a new space, and and we saw with,
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specifically with, Zebedee,
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you start small with the types of games you do. But right now, both of you guys have real first person shooters,
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experiences
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where where you literally when you kill someone, you take their stats.
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I
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I I know there's a little bit more nuance there specifically with Bitcoin Bounty Hunt,
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but you wanted to talk a little bit about the mechanics there, about how that changes one of these I mean, I I I wanna start with Andre, because Andre,
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you specifically, you guys have this new product Infuse.
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Right? And you took you took Counter Strike Go, which is, like, practically,
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like, the open source equivalent of, 1st person shooters because there's just insane amounts of mods you can do to it, and you infuse sets into it. It's like the OG first person. This game has held up since we were we were little kids and we were playing it. Right? Like, this game is still almost exactly the same. Yeah. That's crazy. That's fucking insane. 99. Is that what you said?
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3? I may be wrong.
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that's insane. Okay. So in the nineties, this the the the this game came out, and it basically has hold up held up. Right?
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How has what do you how do you think adding stats to a game like that has changed the dynamics of that game?
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So
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Infuse at its core is really just a a a set of, you know, parts in a system that allow us to inject or infuse
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sats into a game.
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Like you were saying, CS GO specifically because, one, it still has, you know, 20,000,000 active players a month, which is which is insane.
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And it's been going on for 20 years. It's still the the,
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you know,
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crop of the what's the the expression like cream of the crop when it comes from for FPS,
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shooters. Right? So it made sense. We have a a a lot of users. It made sense to be a game to to infuse.
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Specifically, the first version that we had, which is this tournament mode,
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is you you you basically, you're staking some sats. You're saying, hey. Let's put in 500 sats each, And then whoever, is the best player takes the biggest, part of the pot, so it's divided equally,
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between between your scores in the game in the game. So,
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I think initially,
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the goal was just to, you know, can this be done? Right? Is is this feasible?
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There's a lot of of
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ideation and imagination and, oh, this is great. This is awesome. Let's make it work. But you you don't really see it until you you build it. And when we made it work, I remember Chris Mandelduck who who is also a cofounder of Zevity. He he built the the initial prototype,
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and we didn't believe him. And and then he brought it up. So, no, let's do it in a game night. So, everyone got together,
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and he's like, I I put I put stats into CS GO. And then that's where Infuse came came up. And,
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so I think, in general,
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what we've seen is there's a lot more,
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notion of skin in the game is very, very real.
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People get angry when they lose and they wanna play again. And so they stake more sats because they're like, you know, screw you. Why are you taking my sats away? And and they just keep going and going.
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So it it definitely has added,
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a layer of competitiveness
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that isn't there necessarily when you're just playing CS GO normally because I think it's,
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it's it's, very,
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there's there's it's frictionless. Right? You die and you respawn or you wait till the end of the match and then you you respawn again. So there's very little cost
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or both from a from a monetary standpoint, but also from a a mental cost. You're just you're just sitting. You're waiting. You're watching the game, and then you play again.
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When when you have skin in the game, when you have stats,
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it really changes. It seems like people are much more, not only into the game, but interested and wanna participate and wanna come back and wanna win more, and especially the ones that have been losing. There's now that drive to make up that that stats, the those stats that they've lost. Right? So they come back and and, unfortunately, some keep losing. Right? Because that's the reality of it. A lot of people are not are not that great and a lot of people are really good.
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So that's the first version of Infuse. I think,
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we can talk a little bit more later about the new the new game modes we have coming up,
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but that's that's what we've seen in terms of of dynamics. Right? It changes a bit of the incentive structures of the game.
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It's still CS GO at its core, but now you have the added,
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competitiveness
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aspect in there. Like, I have I have some money on the line even though it's, you know,
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cents and and and, you know, a dollar, 2 dollars, 5 dollars.
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But, you know,
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that that starts there, and then you can you can you can go as as big as we want. Right? We can we can do a 1,000,000 Sats games if we wanted to.
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It's just, there's not that many good players willing to put that much money yet.
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So that's what we've seen on our side. I don't know if Con has has things on on Bitcoin bouncing out. I think he has some different,
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you know, incentives in in the games as well.
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is is a is is a little bit different because
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for for you, it was harder. Right? So you needed to take on
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the lightning element, the Bitcoin element where we build it from the ground up to to
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include Bitcoins.
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Our game works in a way where,
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there we have have these maps. It's a deathmatch game mode. You run around and collect these bounty cubes is what we call them,
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and this increases your bounty. And when another person kills you, then you drop your bounty, and they couldn't collect them. And then at the end of the round,
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your bounty gets converted to earnings.
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So the gameplay is re centered around these sats, and these sats have a in game presence. It's a little bit different.
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And from from skin in the game is because our players do not pay anything. Right? So we are just a very sophisticated
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Bitcoin faucet
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incentive structure and business model there as well.
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But before we get into that, I just wanted to I'm I'm just curious if you guys agree with me here. My thesis that I'm running with,
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as as as both a lifelong gamer and a Bitcoiner,
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is that once we start adding Sats into these games and I think it's cool that you guys that we have both of you on here because you're coming at it from 2 different angles. Right? Like, the infused product is super cool because
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you're setting up a way for, you know, maybe, like, if we dream big, like, an epic or someone coming along and being, like, we just wanna partner with you guys and just throw it right into a big game. But the thesis for a while has always been that challenger games are gonna come in, and they're gonna try and and make a name for themselves,
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and that's where, like, Bitcoin Bounty Hunt comes in. But, anyway, my thesis is that once we start adding stats into games,
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it becomes almost like
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now that people know you can have stats in the game, you can have skin in the game, why would you ever play without stats? It's like I I would never spend any time playing poker without money.
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I just wouldn't even consider it. It's so boring
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without money. Is that what's gonna happen here with with gaming without, like, competitive gaming or semi competitive gaming, amateur competitive gaming without
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without stats?
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the view that, no, I don't I don't know because
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I think skill differences are one thing. It's very hard to balance games, and then it can be frustrating. And you already have, like, progression mechanics which which might encourage you to play, but suts are better, I guess. But
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another thing is simply that games are buggy, games are glitchy, games can be hacked, and poker is like it's hard to do that. Right? It's it's it has defined rules. So I think there's another element of uncertainty in games which might, discourage from having sats everywhere, for example.
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And you have AIs playing better than any player? You have people controlling, like, 4 of the seats or 5 seats on an online poker table,
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take on that is I think there will always be,
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you know, games that don't have sats, or versions of the same games that have sats that don't have sats.
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I think once the cat is out of the bag and and we move from a place where we're, you know, infusing sats into games and and we're seeing, you know, triple a studios wanting to place,
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that sense into, like, putting sats into the game. Right? Like, look. Let's make it part of our core,
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fabric of this game. I think that will change,
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the the once once we go over that hurdle, I think, it's it's more of a,
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you know, we have this in game currency that is necessary you know, it's totally interoperable with any other service, wallet, game, or anything that speaks this language. It's kinda like, you know, we can just create a new browser as long as it speaks HTTP. Right? Like, we don't need to figure out the the rest. That's super over oversimplifying here. But, if you if you're a game developer and you and you're seeing and this is now the, the status quo, right, which is now you can put Bitcoin into games, I think the users will want to have Bitcoin into games because it it changes the the idea of of money like, the value that that you put into a game,
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can now return to you after you've put that value in. So as a as a, you know, a 15, 14 year old, I would spend 100 of hours playing games. I'm sure both of us both of you as well. I would even lie to to friends of mine being like, yo, you know, I can't make it tonight. I haven't my aunt's birthday or something. And they would come back and be like, but I thought you said that was yesterday. Right? Because I would lie about it just so I can stay at home and playing games.
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Imagine if if all of that time that you you put into it could you could see some return.
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We're not talking a 100% of the same return, but we're talking you you're not just, endlessly putting that value out there and and, you know, it's it's only one direction. Right? So I think once the like I was saying, once the cat is out of the bag, I think, there will be a drive and there will be demand for those.
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But I don't
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think sats fit into every single gameplay,
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period. Like, you can't just inject sats into a game. I think adding money to a game changes the mechanics.
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I I don't think it's that easy. Right? And and even with CS GO, we can't just like, does it make sense, for example, to change the money in CS GO, the money that you buy,
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guns with, right, and and and weapons and so forth? Does that should we make those the stats, or do we make the health the stats? Like, what you know, you need to really think about the dynamics,
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just shoving stats into it. I don't know that makes it a better game.
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But I I agree. I think in general, we're moving in that direction. I would like to see the future is is definitely, you know, gonna be sats heavy and,
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there's just too many benefits. Right? It's it's,
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it's interoperable and I think that in and of itself is is a big one.
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like, different incentive structures to try and to basically
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hit that that nerve ending that you have, like, skin in the game.
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But usually, it's just in these complete walled gardens that are just so much worse than something like stats. And I mean, the perfect example,
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of multiple like, I always go back to Fortnite because
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Fortnite is
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a perfect example of a ton of different things in modern gaming.
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The first and most important I would say is that
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it shows
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how, like, gamers are motivated as fuck. Gamers are motivated consumers
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that love what they do and have very low switching costs. They will go to whatever is hot. They will go to whatever is new, whatever they think is fun and exciting, and they will move over there. And it'll happen quicker than anyone will ever expect. And Fortnite is a perfect example because you had
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you you had this move to Battle Royale out of nowhere.
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Battle Royale was like a brand new format, and all of a sudden it dominated the whole game space. And to the freaks that don't know, it's this idea when you drop, you know, like, a 100 people into a into a
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closed arena, and the last man standing wins,
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which by the way is, like, perfect for
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a for a SaaS,
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grand prize. But anyway and then the other thing they did was they made it so it's free to play on every major platform, that it was cross platform on every major platform. These are things that didn't exist before for a triple a game. This idea that you could play with the PlayStation person from
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Xbox, or PC or even Wii or whatever, Switch.
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And then
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so they added that, and then their monetization
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is is their shit coin. It's like V Bucks. Right? And then it has it has you can buy skins and all this different stuff that doesn't change
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the mechanics of the game. It doesn't make you any better at the game, but it makes your character look cool. And they're making
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1,000,000 of 100 of 1,000,000 of dollars or tons of money
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off of of of of a base using this Bitcoin. Yeah. Billion. Is that what you said, billions?
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Yeah. I think it was 2,000,000,000 at the peak of 2018. Yeah. They're making 1,000,000,000 of dollars because people are are buying and earning
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this closed loop shit coin
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and buying skins that don't change
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any of the mechanics of the game except how they look. And the whole game is free otherwise,
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besides, I guess, subscriptions to make it easier to earn. But, like, so this idea right? So go on. Yeah.
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V Bucks is is a one direction thing. It's the same as buying Steam games. It's it's like you you put the dollars in there. You can't say, like, oh, I have, you know, $50 in Steam. Let me, like, bring this back into into my my hands. Like, you you don't really get to do that. You have to use it in the ecosystem that they provide.
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So it's it's even worse than than your your shit coins because you can't sell it. Right? You can't, like, get rid of it. You have to find a secondary market to then, you know, somehow sell a skin to someone else that, you know, this, this, and that.
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So it's it's it's
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a a form of of keeping that that that closed garden, right, that you were talking about. It's it's we give them a little bit, to suck them in, but it's always one direction. It's it's never back into the user, back into the player,
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which I think can can change quite a bit in,
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by just introducing stats into this.
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tactic. Right? It's it's not like they would like to do something else. So they're the game developers, I mean. So I think this needs to be challenged by by new games coming to the scene.
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I mean, you're gonna love our transition, Con.
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So this is why I'm super bullish on Bitcoin Bounty Hunt because it's a whole new format. It's an idea that no one had really considered before, and it's a very novel format. So do you wanna go into
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how how the Sats are just go go through the full dynamics of of Bitcoin Bounty Hunter. So the full dynamics,
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think a bit back because we created a game before Bitcoin Bounty Hunt, which was okay. The idea was what is cool or how can
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can you earn SUDs while playing games? And our first idea was, okay, you could stream a game and then viewers could add,
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could buy you enemies. This was our first idea, which I showcased at the lightning heck day in New York. And it was a cool game, but it was super niche. Right? And then we changed it to this auto chess, which was high then in in 2018 or 2019. It was super hype to have auto chess, so we built that, then nobody could could play it. So,
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yeah, then we we scratched that game and thought, okay, let's do something everybody can understand, and it was a person shooter.
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And so our goal at StonerLab is to make Bitcoiners out of Bitcoiners out of no corners. Right? Which is cool and good for everyone.
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So the idea was: Okay. What can we do so that our players can earn Sats? And then
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very quickly we came to the idea that, okay, maybe we can just sell advertising for SUTs, and then these SUTs get distributed to the players. So what we have is we have these in game banners of advertisers, sponsors,
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memes, and then this allow us allows us to to spawn these SUT cubes in games so that our player can players can earn subs.
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you you you in you created a whole new business model that a that a game publisher
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advertisers
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basically, are the ones paying you, not the
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customer. But the customer is still,
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you know, getting rewarded from those ad dollars. I guess you would you presumably, you take a cut of those ad dollars.
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Yeah. And the cool part to me is is that
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the ad dollars is all, like, we we've been a sponsor. Tales and the Crypt has been a sponsor for I don't even know how long now, and we just scan an invoice.
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We just post we post, like, a JPEG. We post our little NFT. I'm sorry. NFT. We post a JPEG,
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and then we just I guess you have to approve it to make sure it's not, like, a list of content or something. And then we put a link, and then we just pay we keep paying the invoice. And, actually, anyone can go to bitcoin bounty hunt.com,
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and they can contribute to the tails from the crypt ad budget over there, and then that gets divvied out to the players.
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So a player can't lose any money. But I think it's important to realize here is, like, every time the stats conversation comes up, we have critics say, you know, there's gonna be kids that lose tons of money on your games, and it's like, yeah, that is the status quo already. Like, people lose 1,000 of dollars on games all the time, and they have no path to win money though. Like, so so a game a game that allows you to win money and lose money is strictly superior to a game that only allows you to lose money.
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like, the idea behind the use of of sponsors is,
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you know, it's it basically removes,
345
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:45.000
whereas right now, advertisers, there's always this, this third,
346
00:31:45.320 --> 00:31:54.940
like, middle third party, right, that basically is taking the cut. The user, it doesn't see any value, but the user is the one that sees the advertisement and then someone else is making a cut on that.
347
00:31:55.500 --> 00:32:02.240
So really what what Constantine was what you know, the first one to enable is it's it's using the game and the game's mechanics
348
00:32:02.855 --> 00:32:07.035
as, essentially a medium for advertisers to reach users.
349
00:32:07.735 --> 00:32:13.730
So whereas an advertiser is basically saying, look. For your tiny, tiny span of attention in this game,
350
00:32:14.110 --> 00:32:23.465
for you to see this this image on the wall, here's some stats. Right? That's basically like, if you if you boil it down to the basics, that's what it is. So advertisers are directly,
351
00:32:23.924 --> 00:32:25.525
in a much more direct manner,
352
00:32:25.845 --> 00:32:26.985
paying for users',
353
00:32:27.740 --> 00:32:28.720
you know, attention.
354
00:32:29.100 --> 00:32:37.075
And I think that's very powerful because, right now, the users don't see the status quo is the users see nothing of that at all, and only third parties make that.
355
00:32:37.395 --> 00:32:41.735
And now with with Bitcoin Bounty Hunt, you can see, you know, Tales From the Crypt has definitely sponsored
356
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:51.300
lots of of Sat cubes that are satoshis that people have withdrawn from the game and maybe they have bought stuff with. Right? And and, otherwise, that that wouldn't be possible.
357
00:32:51.825 --> 00:32:52.465
So I think,
358
00:32:53.025 --> 00:32:56.885
you know, Bitcoin Bounty Hunters is a great example of of a a brand new,
359
00:32:57.345 --> 00:33:01.380
model for for introducing Sats into the game, and I think it's it's genius. Yeah.
360
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:04.740
361
00:33:05.360 --> 00:33:18.165
you connect something positive, the advertiser. Right? Because you you Mhmm. They basically gift you money. Right? It's not that you view an intrusive ad, which annoys you, and then you have negative thoughts about the advertiser. With us, it's just,
362
00:33:18.540 --> 00:33:26.460
oh, it's in in Discord, there's sometimes, oh, it's so cool that you have these advertisers who are basically paying us. And, I mean, we have players from all around the world and
363
00:33:27.394 --> 00:33:28.855
364
00:33:29.235 --> 00:33:50.225
it it's similar to in in movies. Right? When when you see, like, you're watching a movie and all of a sudden the person is at home in a scene and they open their Mac MacBook. Right? Like, that's a that's a native advertising where, like, you know, Apple must have picked there there was a deal behind there. They're like, okay. You're gonna use a a Windows machine or a MacBook. And, you know, the the the the viewer is actually not getting anything out of this one.
365
00:33:50.525 --> 00:33:57.480
But in in the game scenario, they are. Like, they're they're saying, look. You you you're seeing our advertisements, and here's some, you know, here's some, sats,
366
00:33:58.180 --> 00:34:07.445
which which, like the the whole point is it's it's a little bit more native advertising than it is, you know, a pop up on a web screen. Right? It's not it's not invasive. It's not,
367
00:34:07.905 --> 00:34:16.530
it's not in your face, like, you know, barring you from from taking the best user experience of the product or the game. It's just part of the game. It's it's native to the game.
368
00:34:17.265 --> 00:34:25.480
369
00:34:25.860 --> 00:34:32.760
antagonists or bad guys in movies to use Apple products. So anytime you see an Apple product in a movie, it's always, like, the hero of the movie,
370
00:34:33.325 --> 00:34:36.204
which I just thought is it's Android's for everyone, but,
371
00:34:37.164 --> 00:34:39.904
but but if if you use an iPhone, you have to be the hero.
372
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:43.339
It's hilarious. I think it's interesting, this ad model, because
373
00:34:44.200 --> 00:34:45.099
as a gamer,
374
00:34:46.040 --> 00:34:47.099
I mean, I remember
375
00:34:47.515 --> 00:35:06.065
so first of all, I like that it's tasteful. I like that it's just like billboards. There's, like, billboards in the game that you're just, like, running around. They're just static images, which is nice. I like that it does create a positive taste in in the consumer because they're getting paid, and they get to play the game for free. So you're able to give them all of a sudden, we're able to give a free game that's not doesn't feel predatory,
376
00:35:07.165 --> 00:35:10.945
which is really cool. But this idea of in game ads is
377
00:35:11.310 --> 00:35:12.690
interesting to me because,
378
00:35:13.310 --> 00:35:15.250
I guess, on mobile, we have the
379
00:35:15.550 --> 00:35:23.225
annoying, horrible, like, click through, listen to this video pop ups or whatever to get credits or get, you know, cheat codes.
380
00:35:23.605 --> 00:35:26.985
It's, like, it's just malicious as fuck. But before that existed,
381
00:35:27.579 --> 00:35:30.240
I remember on, I think, Halo 2 or something,
382
00:35:30.940 --> 00:35:51.840
the DLC was, like, sponsored by, like, Mountain Dew. Like, you got free DLC and you, like, ran past vending machines, and there was just, like, Mountain Dew vending machines and Mountain Dew billboards everywhere, and the downloadable content was free. And I guess they just didn't make enough money from that, and they just went for, like, now it's, like, you get, like, a triple a game and you have to pay them, like, $40
383
00:35:52.905 --> 00:35:59.325
just to get the extra maps or something. They just that whole ad model just kinda got thrown out the window, so it's kinda cool that you brought it back.
384
00:36:00.570 --> 00:36:11.805
385
00:36:12.184 --> 00:36:19.404
386
00:36:19.869 --> 00:36:30.625
387
00:36:31.165 --> 00:36:35.985
super ridiculous, I think, if you pay full price for the game. So it's I don't know how much.
388
00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:42.720
389
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:46.395
Constantine's Bitcoin Bounty Hunt, who's definitely the first one, but,
390
00:36:47.035 --> 00:36:51.355
Bitcoin rally is one that we that we use, that Zebedee has built. And,
391
00:36:52.075 --> 00:36:55.775
it's a little bit more of a of a proof of concept game that has evolved
392
00:36:56.270 --> 00:37:05.115
and and is now going to be released, for people to host their own tournaments and all these things. It's a it's a Mario Kart like game, that has stats in it. And,
393
00:37:05.515 --> 00:37:07.055
it's it's really cool because,
394
00:37:07.435 --> 00:37:10.175
we we followed a very similar approach to the,
395
00:37:10.635 --> 00:37:11.915
to the the Sats,
396
00:37:12.395 --> 00:37:13.920
advertising model. Right? So,
397
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:33.280
but instead of of anyone being able to sponsor, we we use, MintGox, which is the we can talk about later. But, we use MintGox sponsors in in the in the app and in the game itself. So for example, Bitrefill, which is a great company and and great people work there. And, they they work closely with Minkox, and so they've been sponsoring a handful of of our,
398
00:37:33.660 --> 00:37:36.800
events. And, we actually put a bit refill,
399
00:37:37.500 --> 00:37:41.575
station, like, kind of like a gas station inside of the Bitcoin rally map
400
00:37:41.955 --> 00:37:48.420
where if you pass by it, it's you you either go left or right in in one of the intersections. If you go right, you pass by the Bitrefill,
401
00:37:49.040 --> 00:37:53.220
station, and you're you're actually given sats. Right? Like, you see sats pouring in,
402
00:37:53.839 --> 00:37:57.380
which is which is awesome. And and you see, like, little coins coming into the cart,
403
00:37:57.825 --> 00:38:00.165
which is basically so Bitrefill pays,
404
00:38:00.705 --> 00:38:02.565
you know, MintGox for the sponsorship
405
00:38:02.945 --> 00:38:18.395
deals, and then we place them into the games. And then we give those sats to the users playing the games. And then we definitely know of users who have won and then, you know, go ahead and and use it back into Bitrefill, you know, for buying cards or buying whatever whatever they need.
406
00:38:18.695 --> 00:38:23.115
So, you know, through Bitcoin Bouncy Hunt, through Bitcoin Rally, and all these games that we're introducing,
407
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:30.380
you know, you you can begin to see that that notion of, like, the lightning economy where you can earn somewhere, spend it somewhere,
408
00:38:30.684 --> 00:38:38.385
earn it over here, send it over there. Right? And it's all interoperable. So you're talking about a service that sells gift cards worldwide speaking the same language
409
00:38:38.730 --> 00:38:41.630
as the in game currency of of this game.
410
00:38:42.089 --> 00:38:45.390
And that was an unthinkable, you know, 3, 4 years ago.
411
00:38:45.745 --> 00:38:49.365
So I think it's very powerful, that that we're able to do stuff like this.
412
00:38:49.985 --> 00:38:51.445
413
00:38:52.225 --> 00:39:04.445
previously, we might be able to get put, like, bit refill gift cards or credit. Right? The cool part is that bit refill can give you stats, and then you could either use that bit refill or you can use it at one of their competitors. You can pay some random BTC pay server or something,
414
00:39:04.745 --> 00:39:05.725
because it's interoperable.
415
00:39:06.025 --> 00:39:07.465
Yeah. I actually wanted to bring up,
416
00:39:08.185 --> 00:39:13.539
that game because I think that's awesome. I fucking love Mario Kart. I didn't know if we were allowed to say the words Mario Kart or not.
417
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:16.740
So I'm glad that you just put that out there.
418
00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:20.944
But, yeah, Mario Kart to me, like, is a perfect example of
419
00:39:21.484 --> 00:39:33.010
why would I ever play Mario Kart with my friends again if we couldn't didn't have stats on the line? Like, why why would I ever do that? Like, that that that is poker without money to me. Would you agree on that statement?
420
00:39:34.045 --> 00:39:39.025
421
00:39:39.725 --> 00:40:02.990
it's one of those things where I like, okay. If it's 5 people that play a little bit more seriously and they know that they're good, they would be willing to put, you know, $50, $100, whatever it is. Right. If if it's people that aren't, and they're like, okay. Let's just put money just for sake of having money because it's boring without, but let's put $5, and it's fine. And and it would be just as great. Right? So the fact that you can go for, you know, as little as one satoshi most of the time. And and and, you know, if Bitcoin grows to
422
00:40:03.609 --> 00:40:08.355
$500,000, we can go to millisats, you know. We can we can always, you know, go lower. So
423
00:40:09.234 --> 00:40:16.615
I think I think we have plenty of room, but I would agree. I think once Bitcoin rallies out, why would you play, you know, Mario Kart without
424
00:40:16.915 --> 00:40:22.490
425
00:40:22.870 --> 00:40:25.895
Mario Kart, and now I don't know what's real and what's not.
426
00:40:26.615 --> 00:40:33.275
But, I, a 100% would would play that game that we were talking about with my boys on, like, Friday or Saturday
427
00:40:33.910 --> 00:40:43.690
428
00:40:44.535 --> 00:40:45.755
429
00:40:46.135 --> 00:40:52.315
430
00:40:52.990 --> 00:40:56.849
in Berlin, but he was too drunk to show up to hang hangover
431
00:40:57.150 --> 00:40:57.650
hangover.
432
00:40:59.069 --> 00:41:04.055
433
00:41:04.595 --> 00:41:21.105
you know, where I where I I grew up, like, we had these LAN houses, right, where you just go and and before gaming was was online. Right? And you you had to go to these houses and get all your friends together and so forth. And it it just felt much more competitive. It felt felt much more like you had skin in the game because everyone was around you watching you.
434
00:41:21.485 --> 00:41:25.105
And I think this you know, the the additional stats brings back a little bit of that,
435
00:41:25.700 --> 00:41:27.079
that that sentiment there.
436
00:41:27.619 --> 00:41:29.319
You you were talking about about,
437
00:41:30.500 --> 00:41:32.599
Smash Brothers or Smash Brothers, whatever.
438
00:41:33.140 --> 00:41:33.640
We
439
00:41:34.924 --> 00:41:37.904
we have a working so if you guys remember Rikey,
440
00:41:38.444 --> 00:41:39.885
which was a game that,
441
00:41:40.365 --> 00:41:41.505
MandelDuck built,
442
00:41:41.805 --> 00:41:43.184
which is like Street Fighter.
443
00:41:43.589 --> 00:41:45.849
Here I go saying the the names of the games.
444
00:41:46.150 --> 00:41:53.130
It's it's kinda like it's it's it's a it's a, fighting game, you know, 2 player fighting game. And,
445
00:41:53.895 --> 00:41:54.295
it's,
446
00:41:54.935 --> 00:41:58.375
it we're we basically, the problem with 2 player fighting games is,
447
00:41:58.775 --> 00:42:02.215
latency and ping. Right? When it's a a lot of players, it's fine because there's,
448
00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:14.065
there's a lot happening in the game and it doesn't it it's not too faulty. But, when you when you lag 1v1, it it's horrible experience. And so we found out that early on that we couldn't really do Minkox with with Raiki.
449
00:42:14.525 --> 00:42:24.710
So we're actually turning it into a a Smash Bros style game. We have, like, a an initial v one going, and we're gonna put a bunch of sats in it. So hopefully over the next few months, we can,
450
00:42:25.350 --> 00:42:28.010
invite some people for early betas and things like that.
451
00:42:29.055 --> 00:42:33.474
452
00:42:33.775 --> 00:42:35.154
Especially, like, with us.
453
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:45.795
454
00:42:47.875 --> 00:42:50.454
455
00:42:51.474 --> 00:42:55.780
Yeah. There's branding and network effects to to, you know, go against it, but I think,
456
00:42:56.420 --> 00:42:59.480
I think Bitcoin in general is is getting a lot of traction,
457
00:42:59.860 --> 00:43:00.520
and especially
458
00:43:01.140 --> 00:43:02.350
away from the,
459
00:43:02.954 --> 00:43:03.855
you know, investment
460
00:43:04.395 --> 00:43:14.590
aspect of it. I think people are beginning to see the the values of the network and what it can enable, new types of interactions that it can enable apart from just like, oh, it's it's better money. It's it's better,
461
00:43:14.970 --> 00:43:18.990
store value. It it is all those things, but it also is, you know, an extremely,
462
00:43:19.785 --> 00:43:36.890
fast through through Lightning, it's extremely fast, extremely cheap network to do micro transactions at scale. And and if you apply that to games, you know, the sky's the limit. So, I think people are finally beginning to see that that Bitcoin as the network is is moving forward and and enabling all these new things.
463
00:43:37.315 --> 00:43:40.455
464
00:43:40.835 --> 00:43:51.540
I guess, like, party games. Right? Like, so so I guess we should just we should dive in now. Like, the biggest issue here in terms of online gaming in general has always been, you know, griefing
465
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:52.340
and,
466
00:43:53.345 --> 00:43:58.165
glitches and, like, people hacking, you know, oh, hacker got my headshot and stuff.
467
00:43:58.625 --> 00:44:02.325
And that obviously gets amplified when you add real money into games.
468
00:44:03.450 --> 00:44:06.430
That obviously if you if you're playing a party game with friends,
469
00:44:07.210 --> 00:44:12.190
that aspect is almost completely removed, you know. Like, unless, you know, like, your friend is spending
470
00:44:12.605 --> 00:44:13.345
40 hours a week,
471
00:44:14.365 --> 00:44:16.785
trying to figure out what's the next hack of whatever
472
00:44:17.165 --> 00:44:18.465
party game you're playing,
473
00:44:19.085 --> 00:44:22.720
you're probably gonna be fine on that. And in that regard,
474
00:44:23.100 --> 00:44:23.760
to me,
475
00:44:24.300 --> 00:44:31.665
adding some skin in the game, adding some stats in the game is just a clear net benefit. But when we talk about online and we talk about public access and we talk about
476
00:44:32.045 --> 00:44:34.705
opening, you know, the ability for people to be competitive,
477
00:44:35.565 --> 00:44:36.225
with gaming
478
00:44:36.550 --> 00:44:42.250
to the public and not just, like, to the top 1%. I mean, that's gotta be a major major headache on your part. No?
479
00:44:43.645 --> 00:44:54.930
480
00:44:56.349 --> 00:44:57.089
481
00:44:57.470 --> 00:45:02.085
I because they're writing new hacks for for Bitcoin Bounty Hunt. Right? Or I imagine there's,
482
00:45:02.865 --> 00:45:05.345
general hacks around, like, aim bots and things, but,
483
00:45:05.744 --> 00:45:08.330
they they have to be writing stuff. Simple.
484
00:45:08.890 --> 00:45:09.390
Yeah.
485
00:45:10.250 --> 00:45:16.815
So CS GO is is definitely one of the, you know, the games that have lots of of cheaters, hackers, and all these things.
486
00:45:17.214 --> 00:45:20.675
We do all the the quote, unquote due diligence. Right? We only run,
487
00:45:21.375 --> 00:45:28.339
VAC secured servers and and all the the bits and pieces there. But, we don't have a a custom anti cheat software,
488
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:32.319
like you have in Face SIT servers and ECSL and ECSA,
489
00:45:33.525 --> 00:45:34.025
ECSDA
490
00:45:34.405 --> 00:45:36.025
servers and and all these things. So,
491
00:45:36.645 --> 00:45:38.645
we rely a lot on on,
492
00:45:39.045 --> 00:45:40.405
basically, like, community. So,
493
00:45:41.260 --> 00:45:49.600
because we have, like, a large number of mods to help and and oversee the the the servers, but, we have gotten a handful of them. I can't say that we have had too many.
494
00:45:50.205 --> 00:45:51.345
What I would say is,
495
00:45:51.725 --> 00:45:52.045
what
496
00:45:52.685 --> 00:45:55.405
thus far, what we've seen at least is,
497
00:45:55.725 --> 00:45:58.465
because currently there is a cost to enter,
498
00:45:59.670 --> 00:46:00.170
there,
499
00:46:00.710 --> 00:46:03.050
it it sort of removes the incentive
500
00:46:03.350 --> 00:46:04.010
right away
501
00:46:04.390 --> 00:46:04.890
because,
502
00:46:05.520 --> 00:46:16.289
one, it's it's similar to any sort of hacking attack. Right? What you're doing is, technically speaking, hacking will always quote, unquote be possible. Right? It it's kind of a a given,
503
00:46:16.589 --> 00:46:20.165
that a system will have a vulnerability at some part in some point.
504
00:46:20.565 --> 00:46:22.025
No software is perfect.
505
00:46:22.645 --> 00:46:23.285
And so,
506
00:46:23.605 --> 00:46:26.985
you will always have cheaters, but what we find is when we add the,
507
00:46:27.365 --> 00:46:30.450
these costs, right, it it it's first of all, it's costly
508
00:46:30.910 --> 00:46:34.290
to spend 500 sats to then earn basically nothing. Right?
509
00:46:34.670 --> 00:46:35.890
If if we're doing,
510
00:46:36.365 --> 00:46:38.225
matches of, you know, a 1000000 sats,
511
00:46:38.845 --> 00:46:39.425
I think
512
00:46:39.725 --> 00:46:49.480
we will need to have a little bit more knowledge of, like, who these people are that are putting a 1000000 stats into the game because we we and and we'll definitely have moderators watching it because we can't,
513
00:46:50.260 --> 00:46:58.744
provide the sort the same sort of of, oversight that you have in an esports tournament where everyone's in the same room. Right? And you're just, like, looking at the person, and you can see their screen in their computer.
514
00:46:59.260 --> 00:46:59.900
So I think,
515
00:47:00.460 --> 00:47:08.214
but but, you know, in general, we haven't seen that many, and I think it's because it it removes the incentive when, you have to put something in. So,
516
00:47:08.674 --> 00:47:10.775
a lot of our servers are, Steam,
517
00:47:11.395 --> 00:47:23.030
for for CS GO. Is it Steam plus, Sync Plus or Premium? Sorry. So you have to, you know, pay $15 on Steam to have access to it, and then, it has to be a new account. And then you have to put some sats into the game,
518
00:47:23.385 --> 00:47:26.525
and then maybe you win. Right? Let's say you hack it and then you take some.
519
00:47:26.984 --> 00:47:29.405
It's not enough yet to drive a large,
520
00:47:30.185 --> 00:47:37.400
pool of cheaters and hackers. Right? So we have not seen that many. I think as as it grows and as things progress, we will likely see more.
521
00:47:37.780 --> 00:47:47.555
But that's where where it's a challenge. Like Constantine was saying, it's a challenge for most online games, and, we just need to to try our best to to remove them and and just be forceful. I think
522
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:50.620
if we're if we do our job of making it very costly,
523
00:47:51.160 --> 00:47:57.545
to cheaters and hackers, they they they don't have the incentive to come back. Once it's very easy to cheat, then it's fine. They'll keep doing it.
524
00:47:58.265 --> 00:48:16.085
So if we find any any sort of, you know, hacking or or cheating or anything, we bend them right away. Right? It's now a burden for them. If you wanna prove to us that you didn't cheat, like, you know, prove to us. Show us. But, there's no way for for us to to combat it and say, you know, CS GO is now, you know, hacker free, cheat free because,
525
00:48:16.545 --> 00:48:20.005
526
00:48:21.025 --> 00:48:25.940
527
00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:27.059
So,
528
00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:30.420
basically, we're recording matches, and we have a a whole recording,
529
00:48:31.265 --> 00:48:45.170
functionality in Infuse. So at any point in the middle of the game, if someone, seems to be cheating, you can go into Infuse, like, which is an overlay of CS GO. You can click a button and say, hey. You choose from the list of players, and you say a little message. Right? And that gets sent to,
530
00:48:45.470 --> 00:48:48.130
it gets alerted to Zebedee internally as well as the moderators.
531
00:48:48.755 --> 00:48:55.620
Hopefully, there's someone there to check it out and and look at it. But if not, we are beginning to to set up some servers are already set up, but not all,
532
00:48:56.100 --> 00:49:01.240
the automatic, you know, recording. So we can go back and say, okay. This time at this player, we you know, they cheated.
533
00:49:01.620 --> 00:49:04.680
Unfortunately, it's it's retroactive. It's it's, like, post
534
00:49:05.005 --> 00:49:05.505
game.
535
00:49:05.885 --> 00:49:14.450
So, you know, there's it's it's rare for us to be able to catch them on the the act unless there's someone in the match or a moderator ready to to watch it.
536
00:49:14.849 --> 00:49:19.829
For any bigger matches, you can rest assure that we have people looking and watching it at all players. But,
537
00:49:20.210 --> 00:49:26.695
you know, for your everyday match, I can't say that that's always the case. So that's where the the videos, the recordings come in handy.
538
00:49:27.715 --> 00:49:41.279
539
00:49:41.705 --> 00:49:56.309
I'm envious. But I think the community approach is probably best, and I think I agree. When I was playing CS, it was only on community servers with CS source is what I was playing mostly, and there was Exactly. Not a lot of hackers because you always had mods online.
540
00:49:56.665 --> 00:49:58.605
I think only matchmaking really
541
00:49:58.985 --> 00:50:01.645
made that a problem, automatic match matchmaking
542
00:50:01.945 --> 00:50:03.165
with millions of players,
543
00:50:03.465 --> 00:50:04.845
which we don't have. So
544
00:50:05.390 --> 00:50:08.589
545
00:50:09.150 --> 00:50:11.730
right now, to the freaks who are watching live,
546
00:50:12.349 --> 00:50:16.035
I have our Sphinx chat up on in the screen share,
547
00:50:16.575 --> 00:50:17.555
because I thought,
548
00:50:17.935 --> 00:50:22.995
this Freak's meme was pretty funny because we were a little bit late to start today, so shout out to Sadasorian.
549
00:50:24.310 --> 00:50:30.870
Freaks, I'm still trying to figure out, you know, where this Sphinx chat is going to fall into place in this,
550
00:50:31.655 --> 00:50:37.995
in the show. So if you join the the chat, feel free to to say different perks that you might want from being in the chat.
551
00:50:38.900 --> 00:50:47.960
This show is your show just as much as it's my show, and, I'm excited to see where we go with that. But the reason I wanted to bring up Swinx is because there's an interesting element here.
552
00:50:49.494 --> 00:50:50.474
You can set
553
00:50:50.934 --> 00:50:54.395
a, basically, a security deposit for people who join.
554
00:50:55.710 --> 00:50:59.870
In in with Marty's case, he he runs the tails from the crypt,
555
00:51:01.230 --> 00:51:10.225
the tails from the crypt tribe. He said to a 100 sat. So every time you send a message, you provide a security deposit of a 100 sat for 3 hours. And if he kicks you
556
00:51:10.700 --> 00:51:14.400
if he kicks you because you're spamming, he'll take your 100 sets.
557
00:51:14.780 --> 00:51:18.320
So I I there's an interesting element here where people are, like,
558
00:51:18.665 --> 00:51:29.640
the the the immediate it's the bell curve meme. Right? On the left of the bell curve, the immediate thing is, oh, you add Sats into a game, and all of a sudden, scammers and hackers are gonna get worse.
559
00:51:30.100 --> 00:51:33.240
But I think, you know, the right side of the bell curve,
560
00:51:33.780 --> 00:51:39.595
is is that if you add if you add Sats into the game in in a proper way with the security deposit,
561
00:51:40.615 --> 00:51:42.235
maybe you can actually reduce
562
00:51:42.720 --> 00:51:52.595
the, you know and and you you can do exactly what you just said. You can make it so that if someone tries to scam and they get caught, they're gonna actually lose real money. And I remember
563
00:51:53.295 --> 00:51:58.515
specifically when Halo came out, Halo 2, I guess, was the first one that was Xbox Live.
564
00:51:59.220 --> 00:52:03.559
A bunch of my friends had, like we all had early gamertag with no numbers or anything.
565
00:52:04.020 --> 00:52:05.319
We just had straight letters,
566
00:52:05.940 --> 00:52:07.079
like, with real words.
567
00:52:07.700 --> 00:52:08.200
And
568
00:52:08.645 --> 00:52:13.945
I had one friend who, like, lost his beautiful Gamertag because we were cheating on Halo 2.
569
00:52:15.365 --> 00:52:27.550
And it was like a real skin in the game kind of, you know, kick you in the balls. They were like they gave him, like, 3 strikes. He did his 2 strikes, and the 3rd strike, he lost it, and he got, like, real punishment for for trying to cheat in the game.
570
00:52:28.425 --> 00:52:30.365
Do what do you think about the potential there?
571
00:52:31.065 --> 00:52:32.985
572
00:52:33.385 --> 00:52:37.325
The now especially with skins, nowadays, you got, like, Steam accounts
573
00:52:37.850 --> 00:52:43.870
that are a bunch of games. Right? And you have skins on CS GO and you have this over here and you have Valorant, this and you have,
574
00:52:44.250 --> 00:52:54.580
and and now you have this, like, inventory of things that are technically not money, but they're worth money inside of their own markets. Right? You could sell the scans and you could use them here and there.
575
00:52:55.060 --> 00:53:16.550
It it's not the monetary value, but people that have all those skins and have that inventory, once again, they're not gonna cheat because they will run the risk of losing all of that. And we I I definitely know of people who have done something similar to to your friend who's, you know, let me mess around with this and then got a warning, and then Steam was just like, no. I don't care. Let's just let's just ban this person, and he lost everything. And I think it was, like, 1,000 of dollars worse.
576
00:53:16.930 --> 00:53:39.355
He never did it again. Right? Because to him, it was like, okay. I lost enough that that I've I've learned my lesson. So once you it's the same with with the same with any sort of hackers. Right? It's you need to make it more costly. This is something I talk to Mandel Duck a lot when we're, like, working on on the games. It's for Minkox is because he's like, well, you know, this person found his own this extreme edge case vulnerability here when this happens.
577
00:53:39.815 --> 00:53:57.974
So we just consistently add hurdles. So it's like, oh, you need to do this and then you need to find an encryption key in order to to read the message, and then you need to do this other thing to read the message. And then to find the API key, you need to do x, y, and z. And then maybe you're able to try and attack the server, but you just went 5, 6 levels deep, and it disincentivizes
578
00:53:58.515 --> 00:54:01.175
the the attacker, you know, a lot. So,
579
00:54:01.680 --> 00:54:08.320
the more I think the Sphinx chat there situation where you said with the deposit is very similar to the entrance fee of the CS GO. You don't
580
00:54:09.085 --> 00:54:14.065
we we do have free credit servers where you come in for the sake of playing to learn, right, to see how it goes.
581
00:54:14.365 --> 00:54:16.625
But the people that are doing higher stake servers,
582
00:54:17.020 --> 00:54:22.079
you have to put the Sats before you you play. And so that already disincentivizes
583
00:54:22.460 --> 00:54:32.205
a lot of tiers because they're like, well, I'm not gonna potentially lose my sats. I want to gain sats. And if I'm putting sats on the line, there's a chance they're gonna catch me and then I lose it. Right? So the incentive's gone.
584
00:54:33.480 --> 00:54:35.500
Yeah. I'm I'm a big fan of of that model.
585
00:54:35.960 --> 00:54:49.805
586
00:54:50.630 --> 00:54:52.730
587
00:54:53.350 --> 00:55:08.375
588
00:55:08.675 --> 00:55:09.815
to be able to
589
00:55:10.390 --> 00:55:12.230
to play again. So So
590
00:55:12.630 --> 00:55:16.410
Yeah. But I think this the problem with that is that it can, like,
591
00:55:16.870 --> 00:55:22.165
you you you fight a couple of hackers, but you you reduce the UX for everybody.
592
00:55:22.625 --> 00:55:30.050
593
00:55:30.350 --> 00:55:34.130
that can't be the incentive. Like, the incentive needs to be a very clear incentive.
594
00:55:34.590 --> 00:55:42.704
It needs to be very obvious what the company's policy is. And and because otherwise, you end up having, you know, these fucked up situations
595
00:55:43.164 --> 00:55:45.505
where, like, a gamer puts in, you know,
596
00:55:46.150 --> 00:55:46.790
8 100
597
00:55:47.510 --> 00:55:55.370
5000 hours into a game or something, and then everything they put in is just taken away from something, like, opaque policy, and, like, no one wants that. That's obviously,
598
00:55:56.695 --> 00:56:01.755
horrible. But, Con, like, you so this is a great time to transition. We're an hour into this show.
599
00:56:02.535 --> 00:56:09.750
I do like to flex on on on other people, and that this show specifically is free and open. We have no ads, no sponsors,
600
00:56:10.930 --> 00:56:11.750
no paywalls.
601
00:56:12.744 --> 00:56:21.070
It's available for everyone fully to download. So when I say that we're 56 minutes into the show, we are in fact 56 minutes in regardless of where you listen to it.
602
00:56:22.030 --> 00:56:25.090
I think it's a great time to transfer into Lightning specifically because
603
00:56:25.470 --> 00:56:32.055
one of the things is is we would already have money in triple a games. We the the reason we have V Bucks
604
00:56:32.434 --> 00:56:35.895
rather than US dollars, in my opinion, in Fortnite
605
00:56:36.835 --> 00:56:38.775
is Technical. Is because of regulations.
606
00:56:39.110 --> 00:56:40.810
It's because it's too difficult
607
00:56:41.190 --> 00:56:44.650
and too much friction to implement real money into games.
608
00:56:45.030 --> 00:56:46.090
And and
609
00:56:46.505 --> 00:56:56.930
this is where all of a sudden Lightning and Sats can can change that that game, but there's certain issues that a lot of people don't like talking about with lightning right now because it's early,
610
00:56:58.590 --> 00:57:02.085
that that that gives us these pain points that we have very
611
00:57:02.545 --> 00:57:04.325
similar pain points that we have,
612
00:57:06.465 --> 00:57:19.595
in that traditional fiat world that we're talking about. Right? And and and the the reason I say it is that I I think these games would add would add money directly into the game is because I I honestly do believe that, you know, if you if you
613
00:57:20.055 --> 00:57:30.720
add money and real money into a game in a you you create it so gamers can earn money playing your game, that it creates a viral a viral feedback loop that that will make your game more popular.
614
00:57:31.660 --> 00:57:33.280
So so with that all said,
615
00:57:34.755 --> 00:57:38.855
this is a perfect this is why it's so fucking good that I have both of you on.
616
00:57:39.395 --> 00:57:39.895
So
617
00:57:41.155 --> 00:57:42.195
Khan went with
618
00:57:42.690 --> 00:57:46.310
he sets up a full Neutrino you run like a lightning node,
619
00:57:46.610 --> 00:57:48.550
a light lightning node that use Neutrino
620
00:57:49.010 --> 00:57:52.394
directly in the client of the game so that the user
621
00:57:52.694 --> 00:57:55.355
is it's a non custodial lightning experience.
622
00:57:55.974 --> 00:58:05.130
And you try and make it as frictionless as possible. I know you've been having a lot of pain with that, and I think you're transitioning away from that. So I do wanna talk about that. But then on the opposite side,
623
00:58:05.670 --> 00:58:07.130
we have Andre at Zebedee,
624
00:58:08.075 --> 00:58:10.415
where they provided they decided to go
625
00:58:10.955 --> 00:58:16.415
completely custodial because it it has way less friction on the tech side.
626
00:58:17.010 --> 00:58:19.430
So so yours has Khan's implementation
627
00:58:19.730 --> 00:58:25.030
has more more friction on on the tech side, and Zebedee's solution has more
628
00:58:25.505 --> 00:58:31.765
friction on the regulatory side. I had to confirm my email address. I had to and now now I I guess I can make
629
00:58:32.065 --> 00:58:32.565
250,000
630
00:58:32.865 --> 00:58:33.365
sats
631
00:58:34.270 --> 00:58:36.690
a a day or something, and then I have to KYC
632
00:58:37.310 --> 00:58:42.210
because it's custodial, which is the same friction that, like, a Fortnite would have if they added PayPal or something.
633
00:58:44.125 --> 00:58:54.180
Can we talk about this? Can we, like, talk about, like I mean, I look. The at the end of the day, it's actually a very similar situation as with especially with streaming. I mean, look, we're streaming through Twitch.
634
00:58:54.880 --> 00:58:57.440
For someone who's trying to operate a show like this,
635
00:58:58.160 --> 00:58:59.780
where if I wanted to collect
636
00:59:01.265 --> 00:59:03.925
tips, like, the holy grail of collecting
637
00:59:04.545 --> 00:59:07.204
tips and gamifying the experience of you
638
00:59:07.910 --> 00:59:11.930
streaming stats to me while you're watching the show is if I have a static QR code.
639
00:59:12.390 --> 00:59:17.605
So I think I think the holy grail, and I think both of you guys would agree with me, what we
640
00:59:17.905 --> 00:59:23.285
want is the ability for a streamer to have a static QR code that's completely non custodial with no KYC,
641
00:59:24.280 --> 00:59:27.980
and anyone can scan it at any time and pay that streamer,
642
00:59:29.160 --> 00:59:32.460
and and and there's no friction and it's permissionless
643
00:59:32.855 --> 00:59:34.954
or permission as permissionless as possible.
644
00:59:35.734 --> 00:59:37.994
That's the holy grail. That's where we're going.
645
00:59:38.535 --> 00:59:39.595
Can we talk about,
646
00:59:40.090 --> 00:59:44.670
you know, the trade offs here and and what we're what you guys are battling in in real time?
647
00:59:45.450 --> 00:59:50.925
648
00:59:51.865 --> 00:59:52.365
or
649
00:59:53.145 --> 00:59:55.405
why did we want to do this neutrino
650
00:59:56.185 --> 00:59:56.670
stuff?
651
00:59:58.109 --> 01:00:04.770
We're based in Germany. Germany is very strict. You have a lot of rules. You cannot simply store funds for your users. Right? So
652
01:00:05.164 --> 01:00:14.305
we thought not only would it be really cool, and it's entirely possible to do that, that our users run their own node, but we basically thought it was mandatory.
653
01:00:15.050 --> 01:00:24.244
And so what we did is our game has this launcher, which is a full LND in neutrino mode, and the user has full custody over his coins.
654
01:00:24.865 --> 01:00:26.724
But as you said, it has a lot of
655
01:00:27.105 --> 01:00:28.224
pain points. It's
656
01:00:28.625 --> 01:00:32.600
the access is horrible. We need a because users need to be online
657
01:00:33.380 --> 01:00:33.880
every
658
01:00:34.340 --> 01:00:37.625
I don't know. It's if they're online often, we didn't find, like,
659
01:00:37.945 --> 01:00:42.685
how how much they really need to to be online, but there's so many pain points.
660
01:00:43.305 --> 01:00:43.805
And
661
01:00:44.960 --> 01:00:55.925
this the you the technical UX pain points, but then also the liquidity that we do provide. Right? So we we I said earlier that a user needs to play 5 k Sats to earn a channel. That's horrible UX.
662
01:00:56.625 --> 01:01:01.845
And, also, we need to then provide the liquidity for the channel. So we have someone who plays for
663
01:01:02.270 --> 01:01:15.155
for, I don't know, a good 2 days happy hours or 2 evenings happy hour. He earns his 5 k SATs. Now we open a channel with, I think, 60 k is what we open with. Now these 60 k sats are locked.
664
01:01:15.695 --> 01:01:16.595
And we have,
665
01:01:17.535 --> 01:01:23.400
1600 users, so not everyone has a channel yet, but it's a lot of liquidity we need to lock up.
666
01:01:24.100 --> 01:01:29.080
And, yeah, it's it's such a pain point, which is why we never had Linux and Mac support. And
667
01:01:29.765 --> 01:01:30.345
I think
668
01:01:31.444 --> 01:01:39.900
it is the goal, and what you set with the steady QR code, it was it was basically possible. You could key send to a user. Right? Which
669
01:01:40.360 --> 01:01:43.160
is what we did, which is pretty cool. But,
670
01:01:43.640 --> 01:01:45.160
yeah, what we're switching to is,
671
01:01:46.714 --> 01:01:50.555
we show a QR code. You need to scan it with your wallet, which,
672
01:01:50.875 --> 01:01:51.855
supports lnurlout,
673
01:01:53.115 --> 01:01:59.120
which which Prius does, for example, or Phoenix does. And then you're locked in with your wallet. The Satoshi
674
01:01:59.500 --> 01:02:03.280
as well? Or no? Yet. Not yet. I I I asked Phoenix.
675
01:02:03.740 --> 01:02:04.185
Right?
676
01:02:04.905 --> 01:02:08.765
677
01:02:09.385 --> 01:02:09.885
noncustodial
678
01:02:10.265 --> 01:02:18.559
679
01:02:19.420 --> 01:02:21.760
attention to to to this
680
01:02:22.184 --> 01:02:36.750
681
01:02:37.335 --> 01:02:39.515
682
01:02:39.894 --> 01:02:40.394
regulatory
683
01:02:40.694 --> 01:02:41.194
will
684
01:02:41.654 --> 01:02:44.154
will need us to, basically. I think it's fine.
685
01:02:44.660 --> 01:02:49.880
Yeah. The friction in in lighting would be so simple. You play around, and then you see a QR code, and you need to withdraw,
686
01:02:50.579 --> 01:02:51.079
basically.
687
01:02:51.700 --> 01:02:53.400
688
01:02:54.155 --> 01:03:01.775
there's no with Phoenix and and Breeze, I can't get a static QR code that I can post on the stream, for instance, right now. Right?
689
01:03:02.180 --> 01:03:09.000
Like, even something like tipping dot me, which is what I'm currently using if you wanna support the show, tipping dot me slash at mattunderdashodel.
690
01:03:11.705 --> 01:03:15.805
Like, that's custodial. That's completely custodial, and it's not even a static QR code. It's not lnurl.
691
01:03:16.665 --> 01:03:29.390
692
01:03:30.205 --> 01:03:38.385
for, our Twitch stream where you can pay the user. So there is a way with this lnurl scheme, but there's not really a way yet for
693
01:03:38.750 --> 01:03:42.370
for people to enable it without, like, this proxy type of thing.
694
01:03:43.070 --> 01:03:49.775
But I it's it's it's entirely possible with lnurl pay to have a static QR code which pays to your noncustodial
695
01:03:50.155 --> 01:04:02.810
696
01:04:03.190 --> 01:04:06.635
to figure out a way to make it so that your gamers can just
697
01:04:07.275 --> 01:04:14.655
provide a QR code, and then you don't even need I guess, if you could do it in house, Andre, so you actually built a wallet. You built a separate wallet.
698
01:04:15.350 --> 01:04:16.250
Yeah. Let me cbd.gg.
699
01:04:16.950 --> 01:04:20.810
Let's talk about, you know, what what the thought is into how that ended up.
700
01:04:21.350 --> 01:04:44.985
701
01:04:45.445 --> 01:04:49.705
Rusty's working on on lightning offers, which is, you know, much more expensive.
702
01:04:50.119 --> 01:04:52.220
Not not expensive, but expensive than,
703
01:04:53.160 --> 01:05:03.415
you know, the the general, like, just l n u r l pay. It has many more features, but it's also being worked on. So I don't think it's that far off to imagine a world where a non custodial lightning wallet,
704
01:05:03.715 --> 01:05:04.615
if online,
705
01:05:05.075 --> 01:05:14.920
could have a static QR code without a separate proxy. I think that's that's that's sooner than than not. But, we're talking about, you know, on the lightning side of things and the implementation.
706
01:05:15.620 --> 01:05:19.625
So there is a little bit of of of technical things to go through there.
707
01:05:20.805 --> 01:05:22.345
On the on the Zebedee front,
708
01:05:23.205 --> 01:05:24.325
so, you know, we,
709
01:05:25.010 --> 01:05:33.455
the the wallet was something we want we wanted to do for a while, even before Zebedee started. It's something that I've been toying with. And and really, it's it's from experience,
710
01:05:33.835 --> 01:05:34.735
talking to,
711
01:05:35.515 --> 01:05:37.215
other folks that aren't as
712
01:05:37.515 --> 01:05:38.015
technical,
713
01:05:38.555 --> 01:05:45.850
and and just generally, you know, into the Bitcoin world. It's it's very confusing. Like, all of this is super, super complex to them. Right? And,
714
01:05:46.230 --> 01:05:59.755
you know, there there are wallets that we could we could send in to, you know, your your newbie friend, and they would be able to pick it up. But it's still you still need to understand the channels, and you still need to understand, like, why couldn't I do x and why couldn't I perform y transaction? And,
715
01:06:00.300 --> 01:06:00.800
so,
716
01:06:01.100 --> 01:06:02.220
our view was that,
717
01:06:02.620 --> 01:06:07.120
to onboard the next, you know, 1,000,000, 10,000,000, a 1,000,000,000, 5,000,000,
718
01:06:07.705 --> 01:06:08.765
people, we,
719
01:06:09.225 --> 01:06:11.405
can't really depend and or wait
720
01:06:11.945 --> 01:06:14.540
on that the technicals to be there. I think,
721
01:06:15.180 --> 01:06:18.800
you know, our take was that, look, we can provide the UX. We can abstract
722
01:06:19.420 --> 01:06:21.040
this this massive complexity,
723
01:06:21.740 --> 01:06:27.045
and take care of that. So we Zebedee is not a gaming studio. Zebedee is an infrastructure provider. We,
724
01:06:27.345 --> 01:06:29.924
happen to create some games, and we happen to create products,
725
01:06:30.790 --> 01:06:39.345
geared towards the gaming world because that's that's our vertical. But, we're not trying to be a gaming studio competing with triple a games and and so forth. So,
726
01:06:39.724 --> 01:06:43.905
the wallet, what it what it does is it's like you said, it's a custodial wallet where,
727
01:06:44.285 --> 01:06:46.785
you're you go from from 0 to lightning,
728
01:06:47.390 --> 01:06:50.130
within, you know, an email password flow.
729
01:06:50.590 --> 01:06:52.210
So so it's very familiar.
730
01:06:52.750 --> 01:06:55.735
It does there are trade offs, and I don't think there's anything that
731
01:06:57.255 --> 01:06:59.995
Donna Lab commenting, unfortunately not with.
732
01:07:00.935 --> 01:07:01.435
But,
733
01:07:02.375 --> 01:07:24.200
so, it's it's custodial in the sense that that we hold the funds for you. But, you know, with lightning, I think one of the things we we like to say is you don't have to keep it. Keep it as much as you keep on your wallet in your back pocket. Right? It's not meant to be your your Bitcoin wallet where you're you're storing your funds, and this is this is gaming money. Right? This is, you know, your $50 on the on your wallet. It's a $10, $50.
734
01:07:24.980 --> 01:07:29.715
So because Lightning is so fast, if you whether you have a node or whether your exchange
735
01:07:30.015 --> 01:07:33.295
supports Lightning or whether you, you know, you have a way to send it out,
736
01:07:33.695 --> 01:07:36.595
you can you can send it out at the end of the day, at the end of the week, whatever.
737
01:07:37.509 --> 01:07:39.609
One one of the things that I, you know, I
738
01:07:39.990 --> 01:07:53.840
I definitely don't like about the way, certain companies have handled the the custodialness of of Bitcoin is, the situation that you talk about sometimes, Matt, which is like the locking the funds. It's like locking your locking your funds until you KYC.
739
01:07:54.220 --> 01:08:00.000
740
01:08:00.425 --> 01:08:02.505
741
01:08:02.905 --> 01:08:26.150
like, you know, we don't know the future, but this is something I stand by, and and I really don't want to ever be in a position where we have to do that. And I I I'd like to say that we would never do that, because, the the way we set it up is, look, you have certain limits, and the limits reach on the daily. And then if you reach those limits, okay, tomorrow, you can you can take it your your sets out. It's fine. Like, we're not we're not in a position where we're gonna, you know, do what what's called shotgun,
742
01:08:27.090 --> 01:08:28.230
verification. So,
743
01:08:28.610 --> 01:08:32.310
but because we were talking about regulations and stuff, so be because we're a custodial,
744
01:08:32.690 --> 01:08:33.190
platform
745
01:08:33.635 --> 01:08:36.735
and we're trying to be, an infrastructure provider for,
746
01:08:37.075 --> 01:08:45.390
your large studios. Right? The the the the goal really here is, like you were saying earlier, is to partner with large studios to to bring this into a much larger audience.
747
01:08:45.690 --> 01:08:50.830
And, unfortunately, for them, there's absolutely no way that they would do that with a nonregulated company.
748
01:08:51.395 --> 01:08:56.775
There it's just not a future for them. They may even become regulated themselves in order to do it.
749
01:08:57.315 --> 01:09:05.570
So we are pursuing all of the licenses and all the things, and, there are certain things that we push back on and there are certain things that we try to to work around.
750
01:09:06.270 --> 01:09:11.185
Right now, for example, we we only support Lightning, and I think that's great because Lightning is inherently,
751
01:09:11.805 --> 01:09:13.345
different than on chain Bitcoin,
752
01:09:13.965 --> 01:09:36.830
and and there are benefits to that. So, we we only support Lightning. We have plans for on chain, but but we don't yet. And, there are limits which are risk based. Right? I think, if we keep limits low and people are playing games, that's fine. You wanna play games, you you wanna put $5 here, $10 here, that's totally fine. We we have no issue, and there's no verification. There's nothing needed. You download the wallet. You use it. That's fine.
753
01:09:37.310 --> 01:09:43.010
If you're taking the wallet for a little bit more than your your daily gaming and you wanna have some funds,
754
01:09:43.630 --> 01:09:50.995
the the reality is that we must, know if you're doing, you know, $200 worth of transactions back and forth, you're buying things here, you're buying things there.
755
01:09:51.695 --> 01:09:54.115
At this point, we have to have some information.
756
01:09:55.120 --> 01:09:57.940
So it it does provide a much, much better UX,
757
01:09:58.400 --> 01:10:00.820
at a trade off. Right? And I think that what Bitcoin
758
01:10:01.199 --> 01:10:01.699
enables
759
01:10:02.275 --> 01:10:05.655
is these types of trade offs. If you'd like to be fully self sovereign,
760
01:10:06.195 --> 01:10:07.335
you have that opportunity,
761
01:10:07.635 --> 01:10:14.480
and all of our services are fully interoperable with your node, with your wallets, with any of the wallets. Everything is is fine.
762
01:10:14.940 --> 01:10:19.465
It's about having options. If you don't have the option, I think it's a problem, but you do have the option.
763
01:10:19.864 --> 01:10:31.580
And so if you'd like to go to introduce your friend to Bitcoin, what happens a lot is people say, hey. Download Coinbase. Why is that? It's it's not self sovereign, but it's because it's the simplest UX. It's the it's the, you know, the the best way to do it.
764
01:10:32.060 --> 01:10:40.885
But then you you want to teach them. You want to educate them to learn about the other topics and the other fronts that Bitcoin enables in in the case, you know, self sovereignty. So,
765
01:10:41.265 --> 01:10:50.390
we we do that for for a reason. Like, look, once you reach our limits, either you do a or you do b, and and we can provide you, you know, help and guidance on on how to do those.
766
01:10:50.930 --> 01:10:54.515
But I I like to just say, like, I don't think a user
767
01:10:54.815 --> 01:10:55.955
removing the funds
768
01:10:56.255 --> 01:10:57.075
from Infuse
769
01:10:57.615 --> 01:11:05.350
and then putting them into Wallet or Satoshia or Breeze or Phoenix means that we lost a customer. Like, I don't see it that way. Right? I think,
770
01:11:06.150 --> 01:11:13.875
our wallet is not necessarily meant to be hosting, you know, 5 Bitcoin worth. That's not the point. It's a lightning wallet. It's it's meant to be your gaming wallet.
771
01:11:14.335 --> 01:11:25.619
So I I don't see it as losing a a user or a customer. Like, we actually see it as, you know, they're taking the the right steps to be at a position where they're more self sovereign or where they're more in control of their keys or whatever they'd like to do.
772
01:11:25.920 --> 01:11:29.445
So Bitcoin enables that, And I think we we're using,
773
01:11:29.985 --> 01:11:38.510
the technology of it and and and abstracting a lot of the UX, the the complexities to provide the best UX to onboard the other the other million.
774
01:11:38.890 --> 01:11:46.955
775
01:11:48.395 --> 01:11:59.590
and that's also my I'm not trying to hide anything. Right? It's Yeah. I mean, look look look, Andre, I know you you've always been discreet with me in bars, but, I mean, we're public here. So I I do appreciate the discretion. It does it does go a long way.
776
01:12:00.050 --> 01:12:01.670
I do think one of the underrated
777
01:12:02.565 --> 01:12:03.305
nice things
778
01:12:04.165 --> 01:12:09.945
about custodial lightning is that you are able to, with relatively little friction, withdraw. Right?
779
01:12:10.389 --> 01:12:14.889
Yeah. So you can withdraw frequently. And this is, you know, why I continue to use tip and dot me,
780
01:12:15.590 --> 01:12:18.730
is that I just constantly I'm I'm just constantly withdrawing,
781
01:12:19.065 --> 01:12:24.845
and it's it's a fine trade off for me because worst comes to worst. I think ultimately at some point that site's gonna get shut down,
782
01:12:25.225 --> 01:12:34.990
and I'll lose $50 worth of Bitcoin or $75 worth of Bitcoin, and it's a trade off I'm willing to make for just convenience. It's a convenience trade off. It's a very easy to use service.
783
01:12:35.905 --> 01:12:40.565
The the real concern, right, is ultimately if regulators clamp down and say that 250,000
784
01:12:41.025 --> 01:12:49.940
sats per day is is too much, and they try and make it lower and lower and lower, and then you kinda you kinda have to come up with something else. But but meanwhile, right now,
785
01:12:50.480 --> 01:12:52.100
for most gamers, 250,000
786
01:12:52.480 --> 01:12:52.980
sats.
787
01:12:53.395 --> 01:12:54.775
What is that? It's like a $150.
788
01:12:55.155 --> 01:12:56.614
Like, that's a pretty reasonable,
789
01:12:57.875 --> 01:13:03.014
I think that's a pretty reasonable trade off to make for just email verification for convenience sake.
790
01:13:03.940 --> 01:13:06.200
But let's be honest, I'm a Bitcoiner. Right? Ultimately,
791
01:13:06.740 --> 01:13:09.480
I want some random 13 year old in Singapore
792
01:13:10.020 --> 01:13:11.320
to win, like, the $10,000,000
793
01:13:11.780 --> 01:13:12.280
jackpot,
794
01:13:13.614 --> 01:13:17.155
completely anonymously to his own node. Right? Like, that that
795
01:13:17.695 --> 01:13:19.875
that's where I want us to be at. Right?
796
01:13:20.220 --> 01:13:21.120
797
01:13:21.900 --> 01:13:26.160
we were saying, like, you can you can withdraw often and frequently. I think,
798
01:13:26.540 --> 01:13:27.360
that's something,
799
01:13:28.735 --> 01:13:31.315
I'm just gonna it's fine to talk about it. We're we're
800
01:13:31.695 --> 01:13:35.395
looking into not not looking. We have, like, prototypes and we're we're developing,
801
01:13:35.890 --> 01:13:46.285
the the you know, everyone's talking about streaming sats. Right? And, what we're gonna do is essentially allow you to create what what were we saying? Like, you you select another payment or another node, another something,
802
01:13:46.905 --> 01:14:09.605
through an lnurl pay. So in the sense of of of, Constantine talking about Bitcoin bouncing on, it's like, look. Here's my node and here's my lnurlpay QR code. So you will be able to scan it with your Zebedee wallet and then dictate, you know, every so often, send this many sats to this wallet until x. Right? And so it's empty or until I reach 50,000 sats or whatever. And you'll be able to let that happen,
803
01:14:10.270 --> 01:14:18.545
period. Like, the wallet is closed and on your phone and and so you're you're just consistently taking funds out of Zebedee into whatever you'd like it to be.
804
01:14:19.105 --> 01:14:20.645
So once again, it's facilitating,
805
01:14:21.745 --> 01:14:28.699
the the the onboarding and the use of of lightning and and and games and so forth, but not really removing your ability to,
806
01:14:29.159 --> 01:14:37.965
be slightly more private and slightly more sovereign where, you know, you consistently just withdraw. You don't even need to do it manually. You set it up once, and then you just you just have recurring streaming of payments,
807
01:14:38.425 --> 01:14:40.205
back to a to a note of yours. So,
808
01:14:40.505 --> 01:14:46.630
there are steps in that direction, and I think there are technical steps too. I think there are things that are happening in lightning that will provide us,
809
01:14:47.010 --> 01:14:50.390
with with some more capabilities on the on the protocol layer.
810
01:14:51.410 --> 01:14:51.910
But,
811
01:14:52.825 --> 01:15:00.125
812
01:15:01.300 --> 01:15:03.139
Mhmm. Is is is this idea
813
01:15:03.860 --> 01:15:05.559
it's it's trying to make
814
01:15:06.579 --> 01:15:09.239
lightning work in a non custodial fashion.
815
01:15:11.614 --> 01:15:16.114
I I mean, I think most importantly is because of regulations, because we don't want the KYC friction.
816
01:15:16.494 --> 01:15:18.835
And what's really interesting about what they did,
817
01:15:19.440 --> 01:15:30.235
I don't know if it's implementable with gamers, and this is Con. This is what I thought was really cool that you did that you tried to you tried to go this route where you just implemented a Neutrino node in in the software itself.
818
01:15:31.175 --> 01:15:34.315
Is that this idea is they they just add they're calling it
819
01:15:34.855 --> 01:15:45.335
they're calling it the Uncle Jim model, but they're also calling it multitenant. I think it's kinda funny and cool that uncle Jim is, like, just a known nomenclature in this case now. All the freaks know it.
820
01:15:46.115 --> 01:15:46.435
But,
821
01:15:47.075 --> 01:15:51.655
they had this multi tenant model, right, where, like, you can run Sphinx on your Umbral
822
01:15:52.160 --> 01:15:52.980
as a podcaster,
823
01:15:53.680 --> 01:16:02.614
and then everyone you on onboard into your Sphinx chat, you onboard through your own node instead of them running the node. Because if they ran the node, then all of a sudden you
824
01:16:02.915 --> 01:16:03.735
start entering
825
01:16:04.755 --> 01:16:08.054
custodial you you enter regulatory gray areas and stuff.
826
01:16:08.835 --> 01:16:10.135
And and a perfect
827
01:16:10.500 --> 01:16:12.199
analogy in the gaming world,
828
01:16:12.820 --> 01:16:14.679
I think, is I own the new Xbox.
829
01:16:15.780 --> 01:16:22.074
I don't know what I don't know what do they call it now? The Xbox? I have the nicest one. Xbox 1 x or something. I don't know. Yeah.
830
01:16:22.855 --> 01:16:26.875
Something like that. They make they they make the naming really confusing now.
831
01:16:28.050 --> 01:16:28.370
And,
832
01:16:29.730 --> 01:16:35.190
they have a remote gaming feature, so I can game from any mainstream Android or iPhone,
833
01:16:35.810 --> 01:16:37.030
iOS device.
834
01:16:38.295 --> 01:16:40.155
But the the the regulations
835
01:16:40.535 --> 01:16:45.355
dictate that even though Microsoft runs the largest cloud servers in the world,
836
01:16:47.130 --> 01:16:47.869
I can't
837
01:16:48.570 --> 01:16:52.989
I can't stream from their Azure Stack. I can't I can't stream from their
838
01:16:53.415 --> 01:16:55.915
globally accessible high speed servers
839
01:16:56.455 --> 01:17:00.235
because then all of a sudden, they have to pay the gaming companies different,
840
01:17:00.850 --> 01:17:05.750
you know, licensing fees and stuff. So instead, what they did was they literally implemented
841
01:17:06.770 --> 01:17:07.990
Node at Home,
842
01:17:08.804 --> 01:17:20.960
you know, into into the stack. So so your Xbox is running at home. It's it's connected to Fios. It's connected to fiber Internet, and then it it it broadcast to your to your to your, like, tablet or your phone or whatever.
843
01:17:21.820 --> 01:17:24.720
It's a feature that I've never used, but it's pretty cool that
844
01:17:25.284 --> 01:17:27.144
I I it's it's a feature that exists
845
01:17:28.485 --> 01:17:34.800
purely because of the regulations. Right? And it's it's something that to me in my head makes a lot of sense. Right?
846
01:17:35.659 --> 01:17:43.875
847
01:17:44.575 --> 01:17:57.949
and they have licensing fees. Right? To pay you need to buy the games on Stadia. Right? So it's like a Netflix subscription even. Right. But you you can also do it with chief or something with your PC game. So With Xbox, you're streaming it to yourself.
848
01:17:58.330 --> 01:18:04.955
849
01:18:06.455 --> 01:18:11.810
850
01:18:12.190 --> 01:18:17.010
851
01:18:17.630 --> 01:18:20.975
852
01:18:21.435 --> 01:18:44.885
853
01:18:45.889 --> 01:18:48.949
and I'm streaming the game from my
854
01:18:49.650 --> 01:18:50.150
$600
855
01:18:50.690 --> 01:18:52.469
piece of hardware that's at home,
856
01:18:52.905 --> 01:18:58.205
you know, that cost less than a Nodle Dojo, and it's sitting at home, and I'm streaming it from that only because of regulations.
857
01:19:00.370 --> 01:19:15.235
858
01:19:15.570 --> 01:19:18.310
but I I agree that the Ang Gym model for gaming
859
01:19:19.250 --> 01:19:25.705
is also here yet. You also do it with Steam, and it's it works pretty pretty well. I agree. What's with Steam? How does that work?
860
01:19:26.005 --> 01:19:26.985
You can just,
861
01:19:29.205 --> 01:19:33.145
it's also it's also you can also play with friends, I think. You can play, like,
862
01:19:33.660 --> 01:19:36.219
games that are only designed for local co op. You can
863
01:19:37.020 --> 01:19:43.405
I would I don't know how how it's called, but it's like Steam friend play or something, and it really works? You can play these local games, co op,
864
01:19:43.885 --> 01:19:44.864
over the wire.
865
01:19:46.925 --> 01:19:51.664
866
01:19:54.073 --> 01:19:54.920
Which makes sense. Interesting.
867
01:19:56.020 --> 01:19:57.239
868
01:19:57.540 --> 01:19:58.040
Yeah.
869
01:19:58.500 --> 01:20:00.360
870
01:20:00.885 --> 01:20:08.980
the the noncustodial, it's just Lightning is too expensive. I mean, in the last with the 10 k prices, we could afford that, but right now, we can't.
871
01:20:09.380 --> 01:20:09.880
So
872
01:20:10.180 --> 01:20:11.720
what about 3.
873
01:20:12.180 --> 01:20:13.239
874
01:20:13.940 --> 01:20:17.480
875
01:20:18.205 --> 01:20:20.065
lightning, you know, a few years,
876
01:20:20.525 --> 01:20:24.545
I think there are things that will become possible. Right? If we're,
877
01:20:24.845 --> 01:20:28.929
right now, it's very expensive to hit the chain. Like, it's just prohibitively expensive
878
01:20:29.469 --> 01:20:36.370
for, a game, like a single player of a single game to hit the chain every time they need to withdraw because they need to open a channel. That's prohibitively expensive.
879
01:20:37.175 --> 01:20:43.115
But, you know, if if you're talking about, like, multi peer channels and you're talking about, like, opening channels without,
880
01:20:43.655 --> 01:20:50.540
needing to hit the chain because you're you're doing some sort of, like, there's a service that pools them together and then opens a big, you know, a a single,
881
01:20:51.240 --> 01:20:53.500
transactional chain, opens multiple channels.
882
01:20:54.135 --> 01:21:03.830
Like, there's there's many ways to make it cheaper for that and then including, like, improvements on AMP and and possibly, like, the the offer situation that that I mentioned already.
883
01:21:04.450 --> 01:21:06.550
So I think I think there are technical
884
01:21:07.330 --> 01:21:11.015
items and and and, you know, advancements that can improve it.
885
01:21:11.415 --> 01:21:14.375
But in general, I I agree with with the sentiment. It's it's,
886
01:21:14.935 --> 01:21:24.050
with Lightning, it's it's very hard to to provide that user experience right now in a non custodial way in in the game. Right? Like, as as we're speaking about. Yeah.
887
01:21:25.310 --> 01:21:33.264
888
01:21:34.844 --> 01:21:36.784
And it it really is, like,
889
01:21:37.165 --> 01:21:38.605
it it is gonna be
890
01:21:39.200 --> 01:21:40.260
this is the next,
891
01:21:41.120 --> 01:21:42.739
you know, it it it is something
892
01:21:43.360 --> 01:21:53.365
it is the next main pain point as Bitcorders that I think we need to focus on. Right? Is this idea of making a non custodial lightning experience that is as frictionless as possible.
893
01:21:53.989 --> 01:21:56.810
And I think it's really cool what Breeze and Phoenix are doing.
894
01:21:58.469 --> 01:21:58.969
But,
895
01:21:59.750 --> 01:22:02.489
you know, depending on how regulators approach that,
896
01:22:03.505 --> 01:22:05.285
they even might not be noncustodial
897
01:22:05.745 --> 01:22:06.245
enough.
898
01:22:07.585 --> 01:22:13.780
So it it should be interesting to see how that all plays out. Yeah. That's Yeah. There's there's different models of non custodialness.
899
01:22:14.159 --> 01:22:15.059
900
01:22:16.320 --> 01:22:19.345
yeah, Phoenix has their their own and and Breeze has their own. And,
901
01:22:20.065 --> 01:22:24.085
you can you can make the argument on the other side, but I think they are the,
902
01:22:24.625 --> 01:22:25.765
the the most noncustodios
903
01:22:26.065 --> 01:22:41.705
you can get now. Especially if you if you receive funds, you and then you possibly even close the channel with their, with the the upstream, right, with the Breeze and async, for example. Then you're you're truly noncustodial. But until you're doing that, you're you're still a little bit under under their umbrella.
904
01:22:43.205 --> 01:23:02.195
It's it's a you know, it's it's what we like to I like to say to my friends who are are not in this space. It's they they they see the price rise and all of this, and and I tell them, like, if there is no war to to be fought, then, like, did we actually win something? Right? Like, because Yes. We did win. If if there's no war, we won.
905
01:23:02.790 --> 01:23:11.575
No. I I understand the sense. Right? But but, it you know, there there has to be conflict. Like, there will be. It's inevitable. There will be conflict. There will be,
906
01:23:12.535 --> 01:23:14.315
you know, you can call it a war. But,
907
01:23:14.775 --> 01:23:28.610
if if there isn't one, it it was too easy. Right? It Right. Right. There there has to be, and and I think it'll start at the fringes of regulation as it as it has been for the past, you know, however long you wanna say 6, 7, 8 years. And,
908
01:23:29.665 --> 01:23:40.460
lightning is the next frontier, and and, you know, I I hope, Zebedee and and Donner Lab are are good, you know, people to have at the at the at the edges and and trying to to speak. And,
909
01:23:40.760 --> 01:23:50.085
I can I can tell you that, compliance is is one of the the most tedious things, but it's it's a necessity in in the way we designed our business model? And,
910
01:23:50.625 --> 01:23:54.450
we're gonna do our best to to be at a position where we can push back on things.
911
01:23:55.010 --> 01:23:59.910
So I I hope to always be able to to answer these questions on on interviews like this.
912
01:24:05.745 --> 01:24:13.840
Yeah. Switching Yeah. Go on. Yeah. Switching a little bit. I'd love to to talk a a little bit about some things we're coming up with with Infuse,
913
01:24:14.460 --> 01:24:16.159
which I think is is pretty cool,
914
01:24:16.780 --> 01:24:21.135
you know, specifically. Yeah. So right now, in in few CS GO,
915
01:24:21.675 --> 01:24:24.015
we have the the tournament mode, right, which is,
916
01:24:24.555 --> 01:24:33.510
basically, you need to to gather people at the same time, and then the match starts. You have a warm up, and then you play around. And then, you know, basically, each each player has a a a share of the pot.
917
01:24:34.290 --> 01:24:36.870
What we got next, which is which is basically
918
01:24:37.385 --> 01:24:38.345
taken from the,
919
01:24:39.065 --> 01:24:40.205
the the the real
920
01:24:40.745 --> 01:24:43.885
notion of Ready Player 1, if you ever watched that movie,
921
01:24:44.425 --> 01:24:52.915
there's there's a a scene on planet Doom. Such a nerd for me to know that. There's a scene on planet on planet Doom. I've watched that movie so many times,
922
01:24:53.475 --> 01:24:53.975
where,
923
01:24:54.355 --> 01:25:02.030
the one of the I forget the character's name, but they're just going around in this planet, and it's kind of just like shooting around players. And when they when they get killed,
924
01:25:02.429 --> 01:25:11.889
you see the coins move out, and then they, like, grab the coins. Right? And and this is, I think, the the world that we would like to have, which is, like, you know, this world where this is the big version.
925
01:25:12.495 --> 01:25:13.555
Right. Sure. Exactly.
926
01:25:15.055 --> 01:25:20.515
Of of the the sats are, like, part of it. It's kinda it's kinda like your life, but not not really your life. So,
927
01:25:21.010 --> 01:25:32.885
what we came up with is actually a new mode of of CS GO, and CS GO has lots of modes. You got competitive. You got casual. You got, you know, team deathmatch and so on. The one we have, we're calling it tournament mode. It's it's a, you know, free for all deathmatch.
928
01:25:33.345 --> 01:25:33.905
And then,
929
01:25:34.465 --> 01:25:37.290
the the the one that we're coming up with is called survival mode.
930
01:25:37.770 --> 01:25:48.915
And it's basically you come in and you put, like, a 1,000 sats. Right? And that's the entrance. And you basically have a 1,000 sats in your life. Like, your life in the server is a 1,000 sats. Killing someone,
931
01:25:49.614 --> 01:25:54.720
if you kill someone, you get their sats. So they lose, you know, 50 sats. So it's independent
932
01:25:55.100 --> 01:26:01.680
your score is independent of everyone else. And this is something that happens in CS go a lot is we basically remove the notion that you have to get together
933
01:26:02.035 --> 01:26:19.535
to play because you can just have forever running servers, and people can just come in and play and and exit at any point. Right? So they come in, they shoot around, and and they win some stats. Okay. I'm done. I wanna get out, so I I exit. But if you lose enough stats, you get kicked from the server because you you don't have any more stats to play around. Right?
934
01:26:20.335 --> 01:26:26.595
So we're coming up with that, and that's really cool. We've been testing it. It's I I think we're gonna make that the main,
935
01:26:27.010 --> 01:26:29.830
infuse mode because it's just a little quite a bit better.
936
01:26:30.210 --> 01:26:31.110
And with that,
937
01:26:31.489 --> 01:26:40.594
we recently launched the, the on a slightly separate note, we recently launched the the Zebedee Discord bots and and Telegram bots. So, the wallet,
938
01:26:41.054 --> 01:26:46.270
allows you to pair it with the Discord and Telegram bots that you can add to your own servers and you can use in our
939
01:26:46.650 --> 01:27:27.830
servers, and you can you can use, like, commands to do sending of stats back and forth through, you know, something like z send, and then you you set it apart. So we actually added that into CS go through survivor mode. So you can imagine where, if you're playing around and you have a 1,000 sats and your buddy is here and he has, like, 20 sats, and if he dies one more time, he's gonna get kicked, you can actually z send 50 to Constantine, and then you're sending him your life. Right? You're like, hey. I'm giving you, I'm giving you stats so that you can continue here. So I think there's a lot of incentive structures that we can create around, like, team death match on this because you don't want your teammates to go out because you need bodies. So you're gonna give part of your health out to this other player.
940
01:27:28.530 --> 01:27:38.000
So we we're we're gonna come out with that. It's really, really exciting. And then on top of that, we're gonna come out with sponsored servers where similarly to to Bitcoin Bounty Hunt, you have,
941
01:27:38.480 --> 01:27:40.080
sponsors who have, you know,
942
01:27:40.800 --> 01:27:56.864
you know, I guess, billboards, right, on the on the maps themselves. So we're we're getting maps that are are open source maps, and we're editing those and and adding, you know, the thing here or there, and making it so that, the the entrance fee for those servers are necessarily free paid by a sponsor.
943
01:27:57.389 --> 01:27:59.730
So it's a similar model. It's not it's not the same.
944
01:28:00.270 --> 01:28:01.170
And then lastly,
945
01:28:01.630 --> 01:28:04.805
we're actually playing around with the notion of audience participation,
946
01:28:14.460 --> 01:28:31.750
you can, you know, bring out a QR code, which is static QR code. And if your audience pays it, it affects your gameplay. The first mode that we set up is there's this drug mode in CS GO where your your vision gets skewed and you walk slower and you move around, but it gives you sats. So if you're dying
947
01:28:32.130 --> 01:28:48.614
in the game, you can actually hide and get your your audience like, hey. Give me sats. So they give you life and you continue, but your gameplay is all screwed up, so you can't see straight and you can't move right or left. So the audience dig that. Yeah. The audience moves from passive to be an active audience member, and I think that's really powerful.
948
01:28:49.370 --> 01:28:52.590
So there's a few things coming to 10fuse that we're really excited for.
949
01:28:53.290 --> 01:28:58.430
950
01:28:58.955 --> 01:29:01.135
platform that is fun for
951
01:29:01.675 --> 01:29:08.430
the average user versus, you know, we have this whole new streamer culture. Right? You know, we're broadcasting on Twitch right now,
952
01:29:09.470 --> 01:29:15.330
where you could build a cool tool that is just a cool game that is just designed for, like, the top a 100 streamers,
953
01:29:16.844 --> 01:29:22.225
with with it you're right with incentive setup that their audience is, like, basically playing the game with them,
954
01:29:22.765 --> 01:29:24.385
by by pushing stats
955
01:29:24.685 --> 01:29:25.370
through them.
956
01:29:25.850 --> 01:29:42.955
957
01:29:43.750 --> 01:29:46.329
We have something similar with Bitcoin rally as well where,
958
01:29:46.869 --> 01:29:49.369
given enough, power ups from the audience,
959
01:29:49.670 --> 01:30:06.320
a this this quote unquote god mode happens and then there's like thunder and lightning all over the screen and you can't really see straight and you're hitting the walls. And and, you know, the first player that was was at the front, you know, at the end of the this, like, 15 second thing is the 3rd player, and it completely changes the, the the the gameplay.
960
01:30:06.935 --> 01:30:13.835
So we're we're really excited for for these types of of, you know, breaking the audience, breaking the the wall between the audience and the game.
961
01:30:14.530 --> 01:30:18.550
And and this is this goes back to to what I was saying about Zebedee. We,
962
01:30:18.930 --> 01:30:20.290
we actually started with,
963
01:30:20.690 --> 01:30:32.290
a a developer dashboard because we thought, you know, why wouldn't gamers want to build games with Bitcoin? This is so simple and straightforward. Like, why would you not want this? But it's but it's early days, and I think,
964
01:30:32.850 --> 01:30:45.365
it's it's, you know, something that we need to show. We need to provide options and and real games to to prove to the the current gaming industry that, like, this is possible. This is real. This is what we can enable.
965
01:30:45.985 --> 01:30:55.890
So I think, Bitcoin Bouncing Out was was a great game to showcase that because it's a complete game. Right? Like, you have the entire experience. You have the shooting. You have the the dying. You have all of it.
966
01:30:56.685 --> 01:31:05.985
And I think, CS GO brings it on another level because CS GO is, you know, quote unquote a sweep a triple a game. It's like a full on, you know, massive game, and I think it takes that a step further.
967
01:31:06.550 --> 01:31:12.410
So, you know, I think the the reason why we're not a gaming studio is because it's an uphill battle against giants.
968
01:31:12.710 --> 01:31:16.805
And so we are infrastructure providers and and consumer products
969
01:31:17.425 --> 01:31:27.159
for the gaming industry as a whole. So we're actually focusing a lot on streaming. We're focusing a lot on on the audience participation, right, in Mincox. That's a really big piece of it,
970
01:31:27.540 --> 01:31:28.920
because we want to prove
971
01:31:29.380 --> 01:31:58.600
the new types of things and interactions that are enabled by lightning. Because changing you know, removing your fiat rails and putting lightning, it's great. Right? But it it's it's it's not that much better. The experience of someone going to the deli down the street or the bodega and paying with a an Apple Pay or ping by scanning a QR code. Like, those experiences are not that much better. Right? Like, it it it it's not a 10 x improvement or a 100 x improvement. And for a user to change their ways, you really need that 10 x improvement. You really need,
972
01:31:59.620 --> 01:32:01.000
it needs to be really
973
01:32:01.614 --> 01:32:15.430
clearly better. Right? It it it shouldn't be a question of if or when. And I think Lightning enables things that aren't possible with the dollar. Right now you have, you were mentioning this earlier, Matt. Like you have the the cheapest thing you can buy online period 2 dollars is like 99¢.
974
01:32:15.995 --> 01:32:21.615
Like, that's the cheapest thing. And and that's an app store. And really, it's like 129 because they add tax on it.
975
01:32:22.475 --> 01:32:23.695
So Mhmm. 999¢
976
01:32:24.475 --> 01:32:35.600
is the the the cheapest. And with with Lightning, you can go, like I was saying, all the way to 1 sat and possibly later on, even millisats. So there are types of interactions that are inherently impossible
977
01:32:36.205 --> 01:32:37.665
with legacy infrastructure,
978
01:32:38.045 --> 01:32:39.185
and it's inherently,
979
01:32:40.125 --> 01:32:40.945
you know, trivial
980
01:32:41.324 --> 01:32:50.210
with Lightning. And I think that's what we want to push forward. The same sort of things that, Constantine and Bitcoin Bouncing Hunter are pushing forward. These new types of interactions that aren't possible.
981
01:32:50.670 --> 01:33:02.215
982
01:33:03.070 --> 01:33:05.570
And no, really, the other game innovated. What was that first,
983
01:33:06.670 --> 01:33:11.650
such a dick. Yeah. Pubg? Pubg. Yeah. They were the first ones to fucking
984
01:33:12.025 --> 01:33:15.945
innovate. Right? And then they just got their asses handed to them by Epic Games. But,
985
01:33:16.824 --> 01:33:27.890
this idea, right, that that we're gonna have triple a games just add stats will never fucking happen at first. They need to they need to feel like their pants are on fire before they do it. Yeah. I agree.
986
01:33:28.805 --> 01:33:33.865
987
01:33:34.565 --> 01:33:38.105
to have lightning. And then maybe if these just wanted, they will play on
988
01:33:38.550 --> 01:33:40.170
infused servers versus
989
01:33:40.870 --> 01:33:44.250
normal servers. So I think modding with modding, it's entirely possible.
990
01:33:45.545 --> 01:33:49.165
991
01:33:49.864 --> 01:33:56.090
992
01:33:56.550 --> 01:34:13.850
993
01:34:14.150 --> 01:34:15.690
active users concurrently.
994
01:34:16.230 --> 01:34:25.885
Like, we are not at a position where Lightning is ready for 20,000,000 concurrent users making payments up and down. I don't know that that we're there yet. I think I would like to say we're not, but we will be soon.
995
01:34:26.345 --> 01:34:47.165
So, you know, there's very little incentive. They control the rails. They control the economy. They they, you know, they do whatever they want. I think, you know, Infuse and and CS GO is is a way to show them what's out there. Like, this is what's new, on a real game. Right? And and and it's a real as in, like, on a on a, you know, triple a big big title game.
996
01:34:47.600 --> 01:35:06.555
And we can show it. Okay. And then let's say we get a bunch of traction. Okay. Then we get a bunch of servers. Okay. We get a bunch of gamers. And then we start seeing people want different games. So okay. Let's infuse Minecraft. Let's infuse DOTA 2. Let's infuse, League of Legends. Let's infuse Fortnite. There's a bunch of games that we can't infuse because of the way they are and the way they're set up, but there's a bunch of games we can.
997
01:35:07.530 --> 01:35:12.829
You know, so imagine a future where we have Minecraft infused, DOTA 2 infused, CS GO Minecraft is already infused.
998
01:35:14.170 --> 01:35:15.715
999
01:35:16.335 --> 01:35:16.835
1000
01:35:17.215 --> 01:35:17.715
So,
1001
01:35:18.095 --> 01:35:22.755
you know, you get to a place where it's it's inevitable that they will start asking questions.
1002
01:35:23.500 --> 01:35:44.030
It it's it's impossible for them to see traction elsewhere. It's it's similarly to Among Us. Right? There will eventually be a game. I I don't think it's the games that we're talking about right now, but there will eventually be a game that is lightning powered and Bitcoin powered, and it will blow up the same way you have Among Us, which is a game that is relatively simple, but it just exploded. That's a super game.
1003
01:35:44.410 --> 01:35:50.095
Right. And and it's it's fun to play with friends, but, you know, that that's basically it. It's like not not my fault. Secret Hitler. Right?
1004
01:35:51.435 --> 01:35:56.550
1005
01:35:56.890 --> 01:35:57.390
1006
01:35:57.730 --> 01:36:05.750
1007
01:36:06.425 --> 01:36:16.989
1008
01:36:17.850 --> 01:36:19.630
1009
01:36:20.090 --> 01:36:32.040
you know, what we can infuse at the moment, are servers that we can host. So if we can host the server of Among Us, we and, you know, get some information from that server, we should be able to infuse it.
1010
01:36:32.739 --> 01:36:33.239
So
1011
01:36:33.540 --> 01:36:38.199
it's it's not necessarily it's what I was saying earlier. It's not necessarily that every game can be infused.
1012
01:36:38.655 --> 01:36:40.514
And then there are also big,
1013
01:36:41.215 --> 01:36:42.594
publishers that completely
1014
01:36:42.895 --> 01:36:52.000
disable that, like, capability. So for example, Epic Games has in their terms of service, big and bold. We do not allow any cryptocurrency
1015
01:36:52.380 --> 01:36:54.400
in our games. Like, so if Really?
1016
01:36:54.885 --> 01:37:11.680
Yeah. So let's say we add it. Wow. Right? Even even as a mod even as a mod, let's assume that we add it and then we get a little bit of attraction. All it takes is one person from the Fortnite world and and Epic Games and be like, oh, these guys are doing this. It's illegal. Shut them up. Welcome. Right? But the team has that as well, by the way.
1017
01:37:12.385 --> 01:37:19.605
1018
01:37:20.980 --> 01:37:25.320
Every payment that goes through a Steam game must be done via Steam Wallet.
1019
01:37:25.700 --> 01:37:35.585
1020
01:37:36.845 --> 01:37:45.320
And others. That's true. Con, do you see this question from Sam Weiner Yeah. Or Weiner? He wants to know if if you'll be creating new maps for Bitcoin bounty hunt?
1021
01:37:45.675 --> 01:37:51.695
1022
01:37:52.155 --> 01:37:52.655
Everything
1023
01:37:53.275 --> 01:37:55.930
that all the back ends, all the
1024
01:37:56.710 --> 01:38:01.850
stuff that you that uses the payments and stuff will be open sourced next month.
1025
01:38:02.655 --> 01:38:03.155
So
1026
01:38:04.094 --> 01:38:10.750
while we might currently not work on new maps, creating new maps is super easy, and you will be able to or
1027
01:38:11.310 --> 01:38:18.210
creators will be easily able to create their own maps, and then they will be able to monetize creating those maps.
1028
01:38:18.895 --> 01:38:22.275
So because we think that content creation is pretty cool,
1029
01:38:22.895 --> 01:38:29.050
we can monetize it in Bitcoin Bounty. And so if your map gets played, you will get sent sats. So and we want to do this.
1030
01:38:29.429 --> 01:38:39.775
So it will be open source, and everyone can create maps, and we might have a DAS 2 competitor on Bitcoin Bounty, and We're gonna have, like, a 1000000 maps. There's gonna be a fucking insane amount of maps.
1031
01:38:40.075 --> 01:38:43.615
Yeah. And we have we have community hosted servers and
1032
01:38:44.235 --> 01:38:46.400
stuff like this because do you ever
1033
01:38:46.860 --> 01:38:53.025
1034
01:38:53.425 --> 01:39:01.045
I know what you mean. It's like happy days or something. It's like every game every map was, like, glitchy as fuck, though. Like, there was, like,
1035
01:39:01.430 --> 01:39:08.170
it was, like, I I feel like if they could make stats on it, maybe the the maps would not be so extreme. They'd be more, like,
1036
01:39:09.030 --> 01:39:09.530
legitimate.
1037
01:39:10.070 --> 01:39:10.730
You know?
1038
01:39:12.355 --> 01:39:20.614
Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like like, it was it was you had to ride the you had to ride the the motorbike, and you had to keep you couldn't fall off the motorbike.
1039
01:39:20.980 --> 01:39:38.045
It was a side scroller. And they would make the map where you would do, like, insane loops and shit, and it was just, like, always like like, they were rewarded basically for going as aggressive as fucking possible, but, like, we never finished the track. It was just, like, impossible to finish the track in in the user created modes, at least the big ones.
1040
01:39:38.600 --> 01:39:44.860
Yep. But I feel like if if you add in an incentive for people to create these user created tracks or user created maps,
1041
01:39:45.815 --> 01:39:49.275
Trials. Yep. Thank you, BTC pins. So In the comments.
1042
01:39:51.094 --> 01:39:55.114
If you added an incentive there, then maybe they'll actually polish it out. Right?
1043
01:39:56.040 --> 01:40:05.135
1044
01:40:06.315 --> 01:40:06.815
probably.
1045
01:40:07.514 --> 01:40:14.130
1046
01:40:14.830 --> 01:40:15.570
1047
01:40:16.070 --> 01:40:16.570
There's,
1048
01:40:17.230 --> 01:40:23.955
1049
01:40:24.495 --> 01:40:26.515
But we, you know, we we forget,
1050
01:40:27.055 --> 01:40:28.035
sometimes that,
1051
01:40:28.495 --> 01:40:32.630
I don't I don't know if you remember this, but Kongregate, Milliclip, and all of these,
1052
01:40:33.270 --> 01:40:45.885
you know, portals of of web games, they're seeing millions and millions of users a month still. Like, we're talking we're talking about like there's a lot of small, tiny web based games that can very easily introduce Sats.
1053
01:40:46.185 --> 01:41:04.445
And there's no walled garden to be worried about. There's no, you know, this and that that can't be done. And, you know, it it it again, it changes the incentives. I think there's really cool things that can be done at a smaller scale similar to Among Us. Right? We could infuse Among Us or a a a game like it. And and it doesn't have, like, the sharpest,
1054
01:41:05.119 --> 01:41:07.059
and the crispest and and polygons
1055
01:41:07.360 --> 01:41:21.710
on all over the place because it's so high def. Right? It's it's, it's just the game based on the game itself. And it's a small game and it's great and it has stats. And Right. Those stats can speak to the other game over there and then another game and you can get it out and you can do this. And,
1056
01:41:22.910 --> 01:41:25.330
so there, you know, there is this whole,
1057
01:41:25.710 --> 01:41:32.094
world of of, like, the long tail of indie game developers and web based games that aren't necessarily your triple a games,
1058
01:41:32.974 --> 01:41:46.960
that that, you know, we're definitely seeing some interest in people asking. After seeing CS GO and after seeing Bitcoin Bounty Hunt and and the games we show at Mincox, it's like, oh, how do I get started? And they're like, oh, here's the dashboard. Here's how you get started, and here's this, this, and that.
1059
01:41:47.500 --> 01:41:48.515
So there is interest,
1060
01:41:49.075 --> 01:41:52.855
you know, not only from the the triple a on on that side because there's there's
1061
01:41:53.155 --> 01:41:59.420
little incentive for them now, but, on the indie game side, there's a lot of of incentives for them to add it. I think there's anywhere
1062
01:41:59.800 --> 01:42:01.820
from, like, 500 to a 1000,
1063
01:42:02.280 --> 01:42:13.515
games deployed to the App Store every day, man. That's just like it's absurd number. It's so saturated. So you need to stand out. If your game is just another tiny game, you're talking, like, 0.0001%
1064
01:42:14.615 --> 01:42:14.990
chance
1065
01:42:16.990 --> 01:42:31.975
of your game getting user base. But if you add a new incentive thing, and maybe you add Bitcoin and you take advantage of the trend that we're seeing now, maybe you can set yourself apart. Right? And your game can can be set apart and, like, oh, okay. This is But that's what I'm saying. Right? It's like is is, you know, people under under count,
1066
01:42:32.620 --> 01:42:34.560
1067
01:42:34.940 --> 01:42:36.560
the the the the significance
1068
01:42:36.940 --> 01:42:40.239
of the fact that we're adding stats to games. Like, I I think,
1069
01:42:40.695 --> 01:42:45.675
like, it's gonna be a fucking massive I mean, Farmville, what was the what was the parent company of Farmville?
1070
01:42:48.590 --> 01:42:56.210
You know who I'm talking about. Right? Yeah. Is it Zynga? Zynga? Zynga. Right? Like like that whole idea of, like, the mobile gaming format,
1071
01:42:57.505 --> 01:43:06.245
came out of nowhere. It, like, it completely came out of nowhere and all of a sudden everyone was fucking doing it. Right? Like, if if if you have a solid
1072
01:43:07.170 --> 01:43:12.630
setup if if all it takes is one one small company in the mobile sphere
1073
01:43:13.010 --> 01:43:13.909
that fucking
1074
01:43:14.210 --> 01:43:17.785
kills it with sats in the game, and then all of a sudden,
1075
01:43:18.565 --> 01:43:20.185
every shitty fucking app
1076
01:43:20.725 --> 01:43:27.040
in the App Store, every single shitty game in the App Store is gonna be the derivative of that same exact product.
1077
01:43:27.660 --> 01:43:28.320
1078
01:43:28.780 --> 01:43:33.200
I think it's a network effect I think it's a network effect thing. It's gonna take one
1079
01:43:33.835 --> 01:43:37.455
game to to to let's just call it blow up. Right?
1080
01:43:37.755 --> 01:43:40.335
Like, the the same scenario of Among Us or Lightsaber,
1081
01:43:40.875 --> 01:43:43.889
in VR, like pub PUBG or all of them. And,
1082
01:43:44.349 --> 01:43:56.425
you know, it it it'll take one of those that sets the standard, and then people are like, oh, this is where we're headed. So let's focus on that. And then I think it's it's, you know, down uphill from here. Not downhill because it's a it's a good thing.
1083
01:43:57.685 --> 01:44:00.230
Yeah. That's I agree. Size. Yeah.
1084
01:44:00.710 --> 01:44:01.210
1085
01:44:02.150 --> 01:44:15.715
as a current game developer, I can only say creating games is super hard. So Bitcoin Bounty, and this is our first game. It's What a it's hell. Created a good game, though, dude. You created, like, a really solid, like, high development game.
1086
01:44:16.199 --> 01:44:22.920
1087
01:44:23.755 --> 01:44:25.215
talking to to game devs,
1088
01:44:25.595 --> 01:44:41.795
1089
01:44:42.255 --> 01:44:48.755
So I wanna jump into what the fuck Mincox is. But before I do that, I just wanna do a quick shill to all of our Twitch,
1090
01:44:49.215 --> 01:44:49.715
viewers,
1091
01:44:50.530 --> 01:44:53.110
because we've been trying to go hard in the paint on Twitch.
1092
01:44:53.730 --> 01:44:56.790
These guys have, like, a bunch of Twitch channels. You can go to twitch.tv/donnerlab.
1093
01:45:00.135 --> 01:45:02.715
That's Bitcoin Bounty Hunts main twitch.tv.
1094
01:45:04.135 --> 01:45:05.835
You can go to mint gox, twitch.tv/mint
1095
01:45:06.695 --> 01:45:07.835
gox tv
1096
01:45:08.590 --> 01:45:09.090
is,
1097
01:45:10.030 --> 01:45:13.889
where they do mintgox. We're about to talk about mintgox. Then you can also do twitch.tv/
1098
01:45:16.175 --> 01:45:17.395
zebedee. Io.
1099
01:45:18.255 --> 01:45:25.940
Yep. Subscribe to that. So if you're a Twitch subscriber here, subscribe to all of those. I'm trying to figure out Twitch. I think we can, like, rebroadcast each other. So,
1100
01:45:26.240 --> 01:45:34.175
ideally, what I would like is for Citadel Dispatch's Twitch to just constantly have stats gaming going on. I think, like, that's, like, kind of the policy.
1101
01:45:34.635 --> 01:45:39.680
So I plan to to republish you guys. I I I know that's a possibility. I don't know how that works.
1102
01:45:40.160 --> 01:45:40.820
1103
01:45:41.440 --> 01:45:43.460
you start You can tell me. Show started,
1104
01:45:44.640 --> 01:46:02.789
we already had 2 new advertisers. And if you go to our Twitch right now, you can you can now see all the advertisers that are in the game, which is a pretty cool new feature. Awesome. That's awesome. So now if if your image gets approved, you you directly see it in the game. So we got Bitcoin Bitcoin runners and,
1105
01:46:03.809 --> 01:46:05.110
who was who as well?
1106
01:46:07.105 --> 01:46:11.525
Flip at Bitcoin Magazine. These are 2 new advertisers we just got. I like Flip.
1107
01:46:12.625 --> 01:46:16.300
1108
01:46:18.920 --> 01:46:23.099
He has reached out to me. He's a good friend. He wants to do giveaways
1109
01:46:23.875 --> 01:46:24.614
on this show,
1110
01:46:24.994 --> 01:46:27.974
for Bitcoin development, for free open source development.
1111
01:46:28.355 --> 01:46:31.574
I'm not exactly sure how we're gonna do those giveaways yet.
1112
01:46:32.730 --> 01:46:39.630
So I want the freaks to come into the Swinx chat. I want the freaks to reach out to me on DM and Keybase and in this chat right now
1113
01:46:40.005 --> 01:46:44.505
and and and say how we should do those giveaways. We're gonna do them we're gonna start next week,
1114
01:46:45.365 --> 01:46:51.820
and and let's do it in, like, a kosher way. Like, I don't wanna I'm not trying to buy engagement. I don't want retweets. I don't want likes. I don't want subscriptions,
1115
01:46:52.760 --> 01:46:54.620
but I wanna do it in a way that rewards,
1116
01:46:55.080 --> 01:46:57.660
the freaks that join us on Bitcoin Tuesdays live,
1117
01:46:58.455 --> 01:47:03.355
with some cool merch because, what Quinsolo builds over there is is is really fucking dope.
1118
01:47:03.975 --> 01:47:07.275
With all that said, Mint Gox, what the fuck is Mint Gox?
1119
01:47:08.489 --> 01:47:08.989
1120
01:47:09.610 --> 01:47:10.670
I'll take this one.
1121
01:47:11.050 --> 01:47:11.550
So
1122
01:47:11.929 --> 01:47:14.750
Mint Gox was a response to to COVID.
1123
01:47:15.130 --> 01:47:16.909
So Zebedee, last year,
1124
01:47:17.275 --> 01:47:20.095
we actually had our technology was ready. We got,
1125
01:47:20.555 --> 01:47:22.735
games to show, and then we're basically,
1126
01:47:23.435 --> 01:47:28.010
at the final stages of planning our conference roadshow where we, you know, we basically,
1127
01:47:28.550 --> 01:47:34.330
go to this conference. We show the technology and and showing it in person and and seeing the reaction of people
1128
01:47:34.635 --> 01:47:53.065
is is instant. Like, when they get it, they get it, and you see this light pop in their head and and they really get the idea of Bitcoin and games and so forth. And then and then everything got canceled. Right? So we we basically got to a point where we needed to to find other ways to show, to showcase what we can do, what what's possible. And so we we decided,
1129
01:47:53.605 --> 01:47:54.105
alongside,
1130
01:47:54.965 --> 01:47:56.825
a few other players, including
1131
01:47:57.330 --> 01:48:04.150
Constantine and Donald Lab, and then, Jack Everett at Thunder Games who creates Bitcoin bound Bitcoin bounce and and turbo 84,
1132
01:48:05.055 --> 01:48:06.355
and then, Desiree,
1133
01:48:06.895 --> 01:48:08.355
Dickerson from Lightning Labs,
1134
01:48:08.655 --> 01:48:12.675
and us at Zebedee. So we basically got together and and decided, you know, we need,
1135
01:48:13.160 --> 01:48:18.780
to be able to to showcase these things. And so what if we created an event that was,
1136
01:48:19.240 --> 01:48:22.140
a little bit more than just, you know, looking at people over hangouts
1137
01:48:22.665 --> 01:48:25.405
and streaming games, but was a little bit more involved.
1138
01:48:26.025 --> 01:48:28.684
But it was geared specifically for gaming with Bitcoin.
1139
01:48:29.145 --> 01:48:29.645
So
1140
01:48:30.210 --> 01:48:33.590
Minkox became started in March of 2020, and now we're,
1141
01:48:33.970 --> 01:48:36.310
we're a year end actually. That's that's insane.
1142
01:48:36.930 --> 01:48:37.430
And,
1143
01:48:38.125 --> 01:48:43.505
it's it's a it's a monthly event that happens on on the last Sunday of every month where we get together,
1144
01:48:43.965 --> 01:48:45.824
audience members, game developers,
1145
01:48:46.205 --> 01:48:55.650
participants, everyone, and and we do a bunch of esports tournaments. So we have an esports tournament for Bitcoin Bounty Hunt every time. We have, esports tournaments for CS GO tour,
1146
01:48:56.170 --> 01:48:59.715
infuse CS GO matches. We have tournaments for Bitcoin rally,
1147
01:49:00.175 --> 01:49:07.390
and and we're, you know, consistently adding more. We have tournaments for Bitcoin Balance and Turbo 84. And so as an audience member, you go to mintgox.com,
1148
01:49:08.090 --> 01:49:08.570
and,
1149
01:49:08.970 --> 01:49:10.750
you you land on this dashboard.
1150
01:49:11.690 --> 01:49:18.594
Right now, you would only see the agenda of the event, but on the day of the event, you you land on this dashboard where you see a stream in the middle,
1151
01:49:19.054 --> 01:49:25.590
and then you have a bunch of tools around it, which are lightning enabled. So you can play games inside of the same stream.
1152
01:49:25.890 --> 01:49:37.655
So you can play Sarutobi, which is a simple game similar to a a a flappy bird type game where you can get, you know, you're basically trying to get farther into the game and and and, you know, there's sats in that game and and coins.
1153
01:49:38.275 --> 01:49:47.720
And you can play, there's a faucet game called sats stacker where it's basically a faucet where people can get involved, and I don't have any stats. No problem. Play stat stacker and get some stats.
1154
01:49:48.340 --> 01:49:53.145
And so what we wanna do is showcase what's what's possible with lightning, and we've been doing that every month.
1155
01:49:54.804 --> 01:49:55.465
And recently,
1156
01:49:56.005 --> 01:50:08.230
we we basically reached a point where all of the prizes that we're giving out total up to 10,000,000 satoshis. So we're talking about, like, point 1 of a Bitcoin. The the next mint gox that we have is this Sunday.
1157
01:50:08.675 --> 01:50:12.055
So today's Tuesday. So next Sunday, 28th, I believe.
1158
01:50:12.595 --> 01:50:13.815
And that's mint gox,
1159
01:50:14.595 --> 01:50:15.095
14.
1160
01:50:15.450 --> 01:50:16.350
So we've done mintgox,
1161
01:50:17.210 --> 01:50:18.670
you know, there's the general mintgox.com.
1162
01:50:18.970 --> 01:50:24.030
We've done 2 or 3 mintgox geared to the Asian market because there's a large demand there too.
1163
01:50:24.525 --> 01:50:37.570
And we hope to expand into the the South American market as there's quite a bit of of demand and and user base there as well. And we're always looking for new game developers. If you have a game that that is using Bitcoin in some way, shape, or form,
1164
01:50:37.870 --> 01:50:41.250
please reach out. We're we're very friendly, and we want to to showcase,
1165
01:50:41.755 --> 01:50:42.815
what what's possible.
1166
01:50:43.995 --> 01:50:48.095
So that's MintGox, and and we've been doing it for a while. I think it's a great way for,
1167
01:50:48.555 --> 01:50:56.760
one one I was saying earlier, one of the big problems that game developers have is unless you're a a big studio that has, you know, budget to to do PR and and marketing,
1168
01:50:57.300 --> 01:51:02.885
you're you're going against the the the the grain here because, like I said, there's, like, hundreds of games deployed,
1169
01:51:03.425 --> 01:51:05.045
every day of every week and,
1170
01:51:05.585 --> 01:51:07.285
that it's just completely saturated.
1171
01:51:07.909 --> 01:51:27.910
But if you have Bitcoin in your game, you now have a dedicated spot where you can, not only test your game, get get testers, get feedback, and so forth. But if your game is ready in its in its at its peak, you know, let's actually host tournaments. Let's actually host users playing because the user base is here. There are plenty of people interested in this in this front and in these Bitcoin enabled games, but,
1172
01:51:28.530 --> 01:51:33.350
you know, we we need we basically need more games. So that's what we're we're helping to do. So,
1173
01:51:33.975 --> 01:51:42.155
I actually just, something that hasn't been announced, but, I I checked with with Mission Control, and I and then, basically, it's okay to talk about it.
1174
01:51:42.880 --> 01:51:44.739
We we are actually hosting,
1175
01:51:45.840 --> 01:51:47.460
basically hosting a 2 day,
1176
01:51:48.000 --> 01:51:50.020
hybrid event at Bitcoin 2021,
1177
01:51:51.115 --> 01:51:51.595
where,
1178
01:51:51.995 --> 01:51:57.775
it's a live there's gonna be a bunch of live things. There's gonna be a bunch of things that you can join remotely.
1179
01:51:58.290 --> 01:52:02.470
There's tournaments for all the games that we talked about. And gonna be doing as fuck.
1180
01:52:02.850 --> 01:52:06.870
Yeah. And without giving too much, we actually have a CS GO tournament where,
1181
01:52:07.555 --> 01:52:09.895
companies can actually sign up for us. So,
1182
01:52:10.275 --> 01:52:16.535
we aim to have, you know, this company versus this company, and we get 5 people aside, and then we have CS GO matches,
1183
01:52:17.080 --> 01:52:28.725
whether it's it's local to to Miami in Bitcoin 2021 or remote because all of all of our systems have a lot of remote people is the plan. Exactly. Yeah. So so that's So I've been actually consulting on the on the Bitcoin Magazine side.
1184
01:52:29.505 --> 01:52:32.005
Oh, I know. I know you knew, so I yeah.
1185
01:52:32.590 --> 01:52:38.370
1186
01:52:38.830 --> 01:52:47.110
1187
01:52:47.590 --> 01:52:49.290
we will make it entirely
1188
01:52:49.670 --> 01:52:58.305
hybrid. So you can participate from home, and you can participate from the the event. And, you have the same chances of winning, and you have the same chances of,
1189
01:52:58.845 --> 01:53:05.360
of of participating. So, you know, get if you have friends and you wanna participate in the in the,
1190
01:53:06.080 --> 01:53:15.365
you know, tournaments and the games, you know, start prepping with some friends, and and we can possibly get some teams made. We're gonna announce a lot of these things in the coming weeks,
1191
01:53:15.825 --> 01:53:19.045
but it's it's gonna be an awesome time, man. I'm I'm super excited.
1192
01:53:19.585 --> 01:53:21.445
1193
01:53:22.600 --> 01:53:23.340
in person
1194
01:53:24.520 --> 01:53:28.060
1195
01:53:28.440 --> 01:53:32.925
1196
01:53:33.625 --> 01:53:39.804
1197
01:53:40.550 --> 01:53:41.050
1198
01:53:42.470 --> 01:53:43.210
I don't know.
1199
01:53:43.510 --> 01:53:45.530
I I was too old already.
1200
01:53:45.990 --> 01:53:47.165
No. Probably not.
1201
01:53:47.565 --> 01:53:52.705
1202
01:53:53.325 --> 01:54:01.099
should be really excited. I I I'm really really pumped for it. There's lots of of prizes. If you like winning Bitcoin, you know, just just get involved. There's,
1203
01:54:01.480 --> 01:54:12.955
1204
01:54:13.335 --> 01:54:15.020
travel, and such.
1205
01:54:16.040 --> 01:54:17.260
1206
01:54:17.560 --> 01:54:21.739
I'll be there for 10 days. So I'm Yeah. Andre Andre has no regulations,
1207
01:54:22.405 --> 01:54:24.505
to to use as an excuse. So,
1208
01:54:25.845 --> 01:54:38.880
yeah, I I'll I'll be there for 7. So I'm I'm glad to hear that. It's gonna be it's gonna be a fucking good time. If you haven't bought your ticket, use code humble. They did rug pull me. You still get 15% off, which is more than any other public
1209
01:54:39.185 --> 01:54:44.085
QR, public, promo code. But it used to be 21% off to the early freaks.
1210
01:54:46.040 --> 01:54:53.100
But don't worry, it's trending to 0 in terms of Bitcoin. So if you do wait, you you might be able to get it cheaper if it doesn't sell out in the meantime.
1211
01:54:55.395 --> 01:54:58.775
Yeah. So, I mean, I think this has been a great conversation in general.
1212
01:55:00.755 --> 01:55:08.840
I wanna I have 2 more topics that I wanna wanna hit before we end this. It seems like we don't have any, like, freaks. If you have any questions, hit us with questions.
1213
01:55:11.485 --> 01:55:14.545
To the to the people listening via podcast,
1214
01:55:15.325 --> 01:55:16.625
we love all of you.
1215
01:55:17.485 --> 01:55:18.305
Fuck yes.
1216
01:55:19.300 --> 01:55:28.215
Quin Solo wants you to know that he's up for some custom engraving for the freaks if that's the path you wanna go down. I'm I'm literally we're gonna have giveaways
1217
01:55:28.595 --> 01:55:29.335
with Quincello
1218
01:55:30.035 --> 01:55:31.895
to support free open source development,
1219
01:55:32.275 --> 01:55:53.800
and I want the Freaks to decide how that goes. So I don't know if other shows do that, but this is how I wanna fucking do it. Quinn Solo seems like up. He's up for the task. He makes, like, my favorite flask. My favorite flask has the tales from the Crip logo on it. It says Matt O'Dell. It's from Quinn Solo. It's the fucking best flask ever. Everyone's like, you're so conceited. I'm like, I'm not conceited. He sent it to me. I'm just trying to
1220
01:55:54.500 --> 01:55:56.985
I'm I'm I'm trying to rep what the freak sent me.
1221
01:55:57.625 --> 01:56:01.165
But, it it it's he he has dope products. So
1222
01:56:01.945 --> 01:56:03.005
don't be shy.
1223
01:56:03.625 --> 01:56:04.364
Tell us,
1224
01:56:04.750 --> 01:56:07.889
you know, what what what do you think we should go with that.
1225
01:56:08.269 --> 01:56:19.735
1226
01:56:20.435 --> 01:56:26.119
1227
01:56:26.500 --> 01:56:27.559
1228
01:56:29.135 --> 01:56:36.195
1229
01:56:38.390 --> 01:56:41.690
So so the 2 things I wanted to talk about was, first of all,
1230
01:56:42.950 --> 01:56:45.690
it looks like people have dropped off a little bit,
1231
01:56:46.165 --> 01:56:47.605
here on the live on the live element.
1232
01:56:49.445 --> 01:56:54.025
They're getting a little upset that we're not talking about the most important Bitcoin fundamental.
1233
01:56:55.020 --> 01:56:59.280
So we're gonna have to save that for all the freaks that have have been here till,
1234
01:56:59.820 --> 01:57:01.440
you know, the ride or die freaks.
1235
01:57:03.665 --> 01:57:05.765
Both of you, I wanna hear,
1236
01:57:06.625 --> 01:57:07.845
we'll start with Khan.
1237
01:57:08.465 --> 01:57:11.205
Do you believe that Bitcoin is designed to pump forever?
1238
01:57:13.400 --> 01:57:16.540
1239
01:57:17.640 --> 01:57:26.735
I don't know. Yeah. It'll pump forever. We will make sure of it of it. I'm not a supporter. Contrary to to Andre, I'm not a supporter of stock to flow,
1240
01:57:27.489 --> 01:57:35.270
but it will it will go up forever. I'm in for the long run. Our players are in for the long run.
1241
01:57:35.645 --> 01:57:40.065
The Minsk's prize pools will be the biggest prize pools in esports history.
1242
01:57:40.525 --> 01:57:40.765
So
1243
01:57:41.405 --> 01:57:44.065
Yes. A 100%. We we made millionaires.
1244
01:57:44.445 --> 01:57:45.005
Right? So
1245
01:57:45.710 --> 01:57:46.210
1246
01:57:46.510 --> 01:57:53.410
It's gonna in in in hindsight, people are gonna look back there and be like, oh my god. I can't believe I didn't fucking participate in that. It was so good.
1247
01:57:54.935 --> 01:58:01.320
1248
01:58:01.880 --> 01:58:07.179
he he even asked his his dad permission. And he was like, can I play on this thing? Is this for real?
1249
01:58:07.719 --> 01:58:09.340
And he won, you know, 600,000
1250
01:58:09.800 --> 01:58:20.980
sats, and it's, like, insane because in 2 years, 3 years' time, he's gonna look back and be like, what were you doing this day in 2021? He's like, I was just making millions playing 15 minutes of CS GO, You know?
1251
01:58:21.760 --> 01:58:24.660
So I I fully support that that notion that
1252
01:58:26.160 --> 01:58:28.180
1253
01:58:28.645 --> 01:58:29.705
Legend there.
1254
01:58:30.085 --> 01:58:31.865
1255
01:58:32.325 --> 01:58:35.785
So so, Andre, do you agree you're agreeing that it's designed to pump forever?
1256
01:58:37.240 --> 01:58:41.500
1257
01:58:42.360 --> 01:58:46.380
the the the base of money. Like, how much money is there
1258
01:58:46.735 --> 01:58:51.155
1259
01:58:51.695 --> 01:58:54.525
so obviously okay. When we enter a hyperinflation,
1260
01:58:54.890 --> 01:58:58.270
like, obviously, Bitcoin's gonna continue to pump in terms of shitty money.
1261
01:58:59.050 --> 01:59:03.550
But then after that money dies and and Bitcoin becomes a global reserve currency
1262
01:59:04.035 --> 01:59:05.815
and everything is priced in Sats,
1263
01:59:06.915 --> 01:59:11.415
does not does the purchasing power of your Sats not increase forever?
1264
01:59:13.490 --> 01:59:21.045
1265
01:59:21.765 --> 01:59:24.905
given its finite nature, I I would agree because the economy
1266
01:59:25.364 --> 01:59:37.830
will grow. There's always more, you know, quote unquote. There's always more people in part of the economy. So there's more purchasing power. So, yes. In in short, if if that is the future you're you're talking about, yes, it will ultimately future we expect. Right?
1267
01:59:38.165 --> 01:59:54.050
1268
01:59:54.554 --> 01:59:57.455
that that also asks this question every single episode,
1269
01:59:58.074 --> 01:59:59.534
which I think is a nice mix.
1270
01:59:59.835 --> 02:00:01.614
So and then my second question
1271
02:00:01.915 --> 02:00:03.855
is is way more difficult question
1272
02:00:04.220 --> 02:00:06.160
and is, very specific to gaming,
1273
02:00:06.860 --> 02:00:08.560
and it would behoove me to
1274
02:00:09.020 --> 02:00:10.320
to not mention this.
1275
02:00:12.785 --> 02:00:13.765
Gaming addiction.
1276
02:00:14.225 --> 02:00:16.005
Where do we fall in gaming addiction?
1277
02:00:16.305 --> 02:00:20.245
We I feel like we need to talk about this. Like, we can't be talking about people fucking
1278
02:00:21.410 --> 02:00:23.590
killing each other in games for sats,
1279
02:00:24.210 --> 02:00:27.030
playing Mario Kart for sats. I know I pronounced it poorly
1280
02:00:27.730 --> 02:00:28.715
without talking about gaming addiction. Where do you guys stand on this, like, what what are we supposed to do? There
1281
02:00:36.300 --> 02:00:41.520
1282
02:00:43.315 --> 02:00:49.495
fix the money, fix the world kind of problem maybe. So if we have SUDs in game, maybe monetization
1283
02:00:49.875 --> 02:00:53.980
will be fixed. I don't know. So I see it as a issue that is
1284
02:00:54.440 --> 02:00:54.940
not
1285
02:00:56.440 --> 02:00:59.579
not linked to having sats in the game. However,
1286
02:01:00.375 --> 02:01:08.394
I personally see that sats in the game ups the toxicity of of gaming by a lot. I don't know what you see, Andre, but
1287
02:01:09.400 --> 02:01:16.860
I don't see addiction as a as a problem to with combined with SUDs, but I see toxicity as a big problem when you have money on the
1288
02:01:17.375 --> 02:01:18.195
on the line.
1289
02:01:19.375 --> 02:01:50.880
1290
02:01:51.420 --> 02:02:00.285
I I don't know that it'll make addiction, you know, quote unquote easier in the sense of gaming because, you know, now there's money, so people are gonna stick around. I think,
1291
02:02:00.765 --> 02:02:07.400
Constantine nailed it. Like, there's addiction in gaming right now, and and I think there will be in when stats are involved, I think,
1292
02:02:08.100 --> 02:02:12.535
it's it the stakes may be higher. So what you may end up seeing is is,
1293
02:02:13.175 --> 02:02:13.735
you know, a
1294
02:02:14.375 --> 02:02:17.114
basically, there's there's more at stake when,
1295
02:02:17.495 --> 02:02:23.350
you're quote unquote an an a game addict and and you lose sats rather than just losing a match.
1296
02:02:23.969 --> 02:02:27.415
So I'm sure there's gonna be problems just like just like there is right now.
1297
02:02:27.815 --> 02:02:32.395
But I don't know that that Sats are the the reason why it'll, you know, dramatically
1298
02:02:32.855 --> 02:02:33.895
improve or,
1299
02:02:34.695 --> 02:02:42.440
completely ruin that that whole scenario, and everyone is now suddenly in a game attic. I I don't know that it plays that much of a of a part, at least initially.
1300
02:02:42.820 --> 02:02:46.735
I think once everything is is monetized and there's sats everywhere,
1301
02:02:47.114 --> 02:02:49.215
you know, I possibly, who knows?
1302
02:02:49.594 --> 02:02:53.375
I don't know that it's injecting infusing sats does not make,
1303
02:02:54.440 --> 02:02:57.340
you know, gamer an addict, in my opinion, at least.
1304
02:02:57.720 --> 02:02:59.020
1305
02:03:00.040 --> 02:03:01.835
I will defend both of you as well,
1306
02:03:02.235 --> 02:03:05.455
because I wouldn't ask the question otherwise. I mean but, otherwise,
1307
02:03:05.835 --> 02:03:07.295
me answering the question.
1308
02:03:07.835 --> 02:03:13.350
I I mean, I think game game addiction exists already, and they just automatically lose money,
1309
02:03:13.650 --> 02:03:15.190
so at least they can win money.
1310
02:03:15.730 --> 02:03:21.110
And then for gamblers, like, those gamblers already exist. They might move over to to
1311
02:03:21.925 --> 02:03:23.864
video game based gambling or something,
1312
02:03:24.244 --> 02:03:28.425
but they're already gambling on other things. Like, it's not like some like, when someone who's a gambling,
1313
02:03:29.370 --> 02:03:32.090
like, who's addicted to gambling is going to to,
1314
02:03:33.610 --> 02:03:38.030
realize it because your game offers it. They're already addicted to gambling. They're already
1315
02:03:39.225 --> 02:03:39.725
1316
02:03:40.105 --> 02:03:51.520
1317
02:03:51.900 --> 02:03:53.520
1318
02:03:54.205 --> 02:03:57.505
you know, developer point of view, right, that that you should
1319
02:03:57.885 --> 02:04:02.465
if you if we wanna talk about ethical development, right, like, you should, in a way,
1320
02:04:02.980 --> 02:04:04.280
incorporate that into
1321
02:04:04.820 --> 02:04:11.960
the structure of whatever games you're producing. Right? Is that is that you should be trying to provide some kind of education, like, please don't.
1322
02:04:12.775 --> 02:04:14.235
1323
02:04:15.015 --> 02:04:31.040
dilemma, then, like, why don't they care about the ethics of only receiving value into the game? Like, they don't care about the players. Game developers don't care about the players right now, especially for the large large game studios. So if we're talking about That's what I'm saying. Right, Andre? Yeah. It's like, there's like a dark there's a dark undertone in gaming
1324
02:04:31.385 --> 02:04:43.770
1325
02:04:44.170 --> 02:04:47.230
currently, that is the model. The the current model is
1326
02:04:47.795 --> 02:04:51.094
I want you playing all the fucking time. Yep.
1327
02:04:52.275 --> 02:05:02.280
1328
02:05:02.820 --> 02:05:05.975
But if I I agree. But if there's something in return,
1329
02:05:06.915 --> 02:05:10.055
I think it changes a little bit. And and if we're talking about ethics,
1330
02:05:10.515 --> 02:05:13.015
you know, a 100% agree with you that,
1331
02:05:13.500 --> 02:05:15.920
that there is this expectation. Like, let me create
1332
02:05:16.220 --> 02:05:18.560
the game that has the perfect structure
1333
02:05:18.940 --> 02:05:22.720
so that I create the incentive so that people play it all the time.
1334
02:05:23.465 --> 02:05:27.005
And and it's not too too dissimilar to the the Bitcoin,
1335
02:05:27.385 --> 02:05:42.005
network structure where, you know, it's the incentive structures are aligned such that everyone plays their part and and they're drastically penalized if they go out of the, you know, the constraints or the consensus or whatever, and you get forked off and and and, you know, lose their coins or something. So
1336
02:05:42.485 --> 02:05:46.824
I hope we don't we don't get to that, but I I think Right. Adding stats to games, you know, it
1337
02:05:47.205 --> 02:05:48.905
it it again, it changes dynamics.
1338
02:05:49.500 --> 02:06:17.535
1339
02:06:18.155 --> 02:06:24.095
everyone who's making a TV series or making a modern video game or making
1340
02:06:24.860 --> 02:06:30.160
any kind of attention. They're they're all trying to drive your attention into whatever they're doing. Right?
1341
02:06:30.700 --> 02:06:40.545
1342
02:06:41.130 --> 02:07:06.719
murder hobo murder hobo for funds. I think it's totally true. Right? Like, if if all of a sudden the money that you have in your wallet, like, in real life is the same money that you have in the game, like, wouldn't you care so much more about your character? Wouldn't you think twice about, like, going on a random expedition or or like a guild with your friends to, like, and and beat this boss. Because if you lose, you actually lose fat. So you you basically care a lot more. Whether that leads to addiction or not is a different matter, but, I think,
1343
02:07:07.125 --> 02:07:09.945
like, it it'll start it's what I was saying earlier. It'll stop being
1344
02:07:10.325 --> 02:07:29.065
so okay to die on a CSO match because, you know, I just respawn and that's fine. Right. And it'll be it'll be like there's actually things on the line here. If I if I don't play correctly, if I don't make my moves correctly, I I get penalized here. I mean, I specifically with gaming, the most important thing is, like, the status quo is, like, it's completely cool for you to lose a shit ton on money gaming.
1345
02:07:29.380 --> 02:07:31.480
1346
02:07:31.860 --> 02:07:32.600
1347
02:07:33.220 --> 02:07:33.720
Exactly.
1348
02:07:35.940 --> 02:07:37.080
Agreed. Agreed.
1349
02:07:37.505 --> 02:07:42.485
1350
02:07:43.105 --> 02:07:48.350
So, I mean, I think this was a fantastic conversation. I really enjoyed it. I think this conversation is gonna age
1351
02:07:48.890 --> 02:07:49.390
fucking
1352
02:07:49.850 --> 02:07:50.350
beautifully.
1353
02:07:50.890 --> 02:07:53.550
I think I think people are gonna look back on this shit,
1354
02:07:54.075 --> 02:08:00.335
like, our grandkids are gonna look back on this shit. They're gonna be like, oh my god. Like, they were talking about things that were so fucking obvious.
1355
02:08:00.850 --> 02:08:07.190
You know, it's like it's gonna be like those videos where they're like, oh, they're talking about Amazon in 97, and they're like, oh, Bitcoin.
1356
02:08:07.570 --> 02:08:17.835
They're Bitcoin. Yeah. They're, oh, oh, book bookstore. They're gonna be a bookstore online, all this shit. Right. And that's what this conversation is gonna be like, so I really appreciate you both joining us.
1357
02:08:18.690 --> 02:08:20.310
I think people aren't really
1358
02:08:20.930 --> 02:08:22.470
they they don't really understand,
1359
02:08:23.330 --> 02:08:26.525
like, this is this is the the the you
1360
02:08:26.905 --> 02:08:28.364
are gonna be completely
1361
02:08:29.625 --> 02:08:42.400
they're just gonna they're gonna be onboarded to Sats, and it's gonna be the most natural fucking thing ever. Like, they're not even gonna think twice about it. Like, it's just gonna be, you know, they love playing games, they're gonna play games,
1362
02:08:42.844 --> 02:08:49.425
They're gonna wager SATs on those games. They're gonna win SATs. They're gonna lose SATs, and SATs are just gonna quickly become the standard to them
1363
02:08:50.650 --> 02:08:57.870
before they even have a bank account. They're not gonna have a bank account. They're not gonna be spending money. They're not gonna be taking care of their wife and their kids and shit.
1364
02:08:58.195 --> 02:09:08.510
They're not gonna have a job. They're gonna be fucking earning and losing sats before all of that, and that's just in their head is gonna become the unit of account. Like, this
1365
02:09:09.410 --> 02:09:09.910
it
1366
02:09:10.250 --> 02:09:10.750
unfathomable.
1367
02:09:11.849 --> 02:09:12.489
1368
02:09:13.130 --> 02:09:16.345
totally. And if I can just add some some anecdotes here. I think,
1369
02:09:17.305 --> 02:09:23.645
with with the release of the of the bots that we did, they got added to some some gaming, Discords that that I've seen, and,
1370
02:09:24.185 --> 02:09:28.670
I think it's it's it's in I don't know how else to explain it. It's so clear
1371
02:09:29.050 --> 02:09:29.550
when,
1372
02:09:29.930 --> 02:09:36.190
you know, you see these teens and and gamers. I don't even know if they're teens they're Discord users, but you see these gamers.
1373
02:09:36.795 --> 02:09:39.375
They don't actually really know what sats are,
1374
02:09:39.915 --> 02:09:46.890
but they know they want them and they know that they they want they can get them somehow here and there and playing games and so forth.
1375
02:09:47.430 --> 02:09:49.530
And and because they already see,
1376
02:09:49.990 --> 02:09:56.465
the value in, like, your jewels and your diamonds and your singhs and your v bucks and like, they understand the notion of unit of accounts.
1377
02:09:57.005 --> 02:10:00.705
With the bot, you were, like, you know, z send a 100. Right? And
1378
02:10:01.180 --> 02:10:07.360
a 100 sats to us is like, oh, 100 sats. You know, it's fine. Whatever. It's it's it's a it's a tiny tiny 0¢ amount.
1379
02:10:07.900 --> 02:10:23.010
To them, whenever we send, you know, 200 sats, it's a gigantic amount because it's 200. So to them, the the SATs to a lot of people that we're seeing is, like, it already is the cumulative account. It's just like, oh my god. You sent me 2,000 SAPs? This is amazing. So for for us,
1380
02:10:23.390 --> 02:10:28.850
we re like at Zebedee, we really believe that the first, you know, economic interactions that people have,
1381
02:10:29.415 --> 02:10:47.195
are actually in games. It just happens to be with money that is siloed inside of, you know, the game economy that doesn't do anything else. But I think the first economic interactions that people have in in a real value transfer is through games. Now imagine if that money was actually the money power in the world. Right? And and that's what we wanna see the future of. So,
1382
02:10:47.835 --> 02:10:56.100
I'm very I'm very hopeful. Of course, I'm biased. I'm running a company on the on this industry, but, I I think Biased as fuck, bro. Yeah.
1383
02:10:56.800 --> 02:10:57.940
I think it's clear.
1384
02:10:58.400 --> 02:11:00.260
It's what you were saying, like, the 9090
1385
02:11:00.800 --> 02:11:05.325
9 whatever, Amazon video. I think for us, it's clear. And I think once people,
1386
02:11:06.265 --> 02:11:29.055
you know, wake up and realize it, it it will already be the reality. It will already be in a bunch of games, and it will already be omnipresent and and and, you know, around everywhere. And I think we're gonna see that in the next 5 years. Bitcoin is just gonna be virtually everywhere. Like, I'm a big believer that the the the velocity of the Bitcoin, quote unquote, revolution is even faster than the Internet revolution
1387
02:11:29.590 --> 02:11:36.490
because I think, the the Bitcoin revolution is enabled by the Internet revolution, which basically allows, you know, instantaneous
1388
02:11:36.950 --> 02:11:54.659
information transfer around the world where whereas when the Internet came about, that wasn't the case. Right? So I think Bitcoin's velocity is much higher. I think in 5 years' time, we're we're gonna be looking back at at this interview like you're saying and saying, oh my god, these guys were visionaries. But really to us, it's it's very clear. I think it's it's a very clear proposition here.
1389
02:11:56.405 --> 02:11:57.385
1390
02:11:59.205 --> 02:12:08.970
However, I think, lie like like you said, gaming and lightning is like this match made in heaven, and it was very hyped in the beginning of lightning. And now it's I think
1391
02:12:09.350 --> 02:12:12.730
it went down a little bit, but I think as soon as there's this one
1392
02:12:13.035 --> 02:12:19.054
gaming use case for lightning, which will blow everything up, I think it's coming soon. Priced in, bro.
1393
02:12:19.435 --> 02:12:20.975
It's not priced in exactly.
1394
02:12:21.600 --> 02:12:23.380
It's like the next halving. Right?
1395
02:12:24.240 --> 02:12:28.820
1396
02:12:29.120 --> 02:12:31.220
trying to make shitcoins for gaming.
1397
02:12:31.955 --> 02:12:35.415
You know? Yep. And they were all trying to create all their different shitcoin bullshits.
1398
02:12:36.835 --> 02:12:42.060
And then this cycle is different. This cycle, we have real we have you guys,
1399
02:12:42.760 --> 02:12:44.699
you know, we have we have Thunder Games
1400
02:12:45.080 --> 02:12:47.739
involved. Like, we we have all all these different
1401
02:12:48.764 --> 02:12:54.625
people that are that are working towards actually putting Sats in the games, and I think, like, people are just not really appreciating it.
1402
02:12:55.920 --> 02:12:59.539
Right. I I I just wanted to thank both of you for joining us, and,
1403
02:13:01.199 --> 02:13:05.925
I mean, I I think it's it's about time to wrap this up, but I I just want to, like
1404
02:13:06.385 --> 02:13:22.760
everything you guys are working towards is just I've I've fully wholeheartedly support it. I'm very excited about it. I'm excited to take stats for my future children and my future grandkids. I my future grandkids will probably take stats for me when we game, but I will absolutely destroy my children
1405
02:13:23.835 --> 02:13:24.815
when we game.
1406
02:13:25.915 --> 02:13:28.575
Do you have any final comments for the freaks before we leave?
1407
02:13:29.755 --> 02:13:33.400
1408
02:13:34.020 --> 02:13:37.860
increasing. Or I don't know if it's you, but you some someone always increases,
1409
02:13:38.180 --> 02:13:41.080
your sponsorship in our game, so thank you for that.
1410
02:13:41.605 --> 02:13:46.905
And, yeah, I'm I'm very hyped to be part of this lightning gaming revolution alongside
1411
02:13:47.605 --> 02:13:52.219
Andre, Zebedee, Thunder Games, Satoshi's Games. Yeah. I'm very excited
1412
02:13:52.760 --> 02:13:54.619
for the future and what's to come.
1413
02:13:56.760 --> 02:14:04.705
1414
02:14:05.185 --> 02:14:10.450
specifically, Matt, I think, you know, thanks for for asking the hard questions. I think someone has to. And,
1415
02:14:10.910 --> 02:14:17.855
if people aren't pressured and aren't challenged, you know, we we never move forward. You said it yourself earlier is that the challenges are the innovators.
1416
02:14:18.475 --> 02:14:30.330
So there are gonna be challenges ahead. There are gonna be, you know, battles and wars, but we we will thrive as Bitcoin always has. And, we're gonna come come, come out as winners at the end of, of the tunnel. So,
1417
02:14:31.030 --> 02:14:39.595
again, like, thanks for for for having us here. But, in general, thanks for for being caps lock Odell and, asking the questions that people want asked.
1418
02:14:40.055 --> 02:14:47.210
1419
02:14:47.750 --> 02:14:50.810
I just wanted to thank all the freaks for joining us live.
1420
02:14:51.670 --> 02:14:57.645
You freaks make Bitcoin Tuesdays what it is, and I also wanna thank the freaks that are joining us after the fact.
1421
02:14:58.985 --> 02:15:02.920
Youfreaks also make Bitcoin Tuesday what it is in a different way.
1422
02:15:03.719 --> 02:15:06.219
I want you guys to both follow these guys.
1423
02:15:06.760 --> 02:15:07.980
We have at AndreNeves,
1424
02:15:09.400 --> 02:15:14.675
a n d r e n e v e s, on Twitter. We have at sputnicksputnoneckon
1425
02:15:19.295 --> 02:15:19.795
Twitter.
1426
02:15:20.220 --> 02:15:22.560
I see. Both those things are in show notes.
1427
02:15:23.740 --> 02:15:25.040
I love all you freaks.
1428
02:15:25.820 --> 02:15:39.625
Just, you know, don't let the no corners, like, fuck around with you on this tiny little dip. Right? Like, everyone who I'm trying to convince to fucking stack are all, like, oh, we're going down to 40. I'm just, like, just stack. Just fucking keep stacking. I'm just telling you guys to stack. Just fucking do it.
1429
02:15:40.929 --> 02:15:45.429
Next week, I don't know who we're gonna have yet, so I'm not gonna tease who we're gonna have yet.
1430
02:15:45.810 --> 02:15:47.925
But I'm I'm pretty excited for it
1431
02:15:48.485 --> 02:15:49.364
just in general.
1432
02:15:50.965 --> 02:15:58.010
I I really do there's, like, a lot of in fighting on Twitter right now. I just you know, I I wish the friendly fire was a little bit reduced.
1433
02:15:58.870 --> 02:16:00.170
I agree with 99%
1434
02:16:00.550 --> 02:16:04.650
of every single BitCorner on Twitter, like, real BitCorner, not ChickCorner,
1435
02:16:05.345 --> 02:16:12.165
on Twitter. So I I wish that was a little bit reduced, but I I'm also a little bit guilty of that. So I do take responsibility there.
1436
02:16:13.350 --> 02:16:15.370
I hope to see you all at Bitcoin 2021.
1437
02:16:16.070 --> 02:16:17.130
We will have,
1438
02:16:18.630 --> 02:16:19.930
RHR on Thursday
1439
02:16:20.265 --> 02:16:27.245
as is tradition. Marty will never commit to a specific time, unlike the dispatch, but we're aiming for 3:30 EST.
1440
02:16:29.590 --> 02:16:30.090
UTC,
1441
02:16:30.710 --> 02:16:33.450
that should be oh my god. I'm gonna fuck this up.
1442
02:16:33.910 --> 02:16:34.550
What is,
1443
02:16:34.870 --> 02:16:35.370
1930?
1444
02:16:37.095 --> 02:16:37.595
1930?
1445
02:16:38.055 --> 02:16:38.555
18:30
1446
02:16:38.855 --> 02:16:39.355
UTC,
1447
02:16:40.215 --> 02:16:40.875
I think.
1448
02:16:42.295 --> 02:16:44.170
Just fucking did that off the top of my head.
1449
02:16:45.130 --> 02:16:49.710
And so join us for that, and then join us back on Tuesday for 21 100 UTC,
1450
02:16:51.345 --> 02:16:58.404
for the next Citadel Dispatch. Let's fucking go. Stay humble, Stack Sats. I love you all. Thank you to Andre. Thank you to Khan.
1451
02:16:59.024 --> 02:17:03.100
You guys are fucking killing it. Let's fucking just do this shit. Cheers.
1452
02:17:03.720 --> 02:17:05.340
1453
02:20:36.870 --> 02:20:39.610
1454
02:20:40.710 --> 02:20:42.410
We're gonna fucking run this shit.
1455
02:20:42.926 --> 02:20:44.865
I'm looking forward to doing it along
1456
02:20:45.245 --> 02:20:46.545
along all of you,
1457
02:20:47.085 --> 02:20:53.329
and I'll see you on Thursday for rabbit hole recap. And I'll see you next Tuesday for sizzle dispatch 15.
1458
02:20:54.189 --> 02:20:58.369
If you want to provide suggestions on who the next guest should be,
1459
02:20:59.305 --> 02:21:02.125
come into our Sphinx tribe and let us know,
1460
02:21:02.904 --> 02:21:05.564
specifically this little dispatch, Sphinx tribe,
1461
02:21:06.250 --> 02:21:09.630
and, let's have fun with it. Stay humble. Stack stats.
