Feb. 10, 2021
CD8: Corporate FOMO, BIPs, and Taproot with @futurepaul and @nvk
EPISODE: 0.0.8
BLOCK: 669903
PRICE: 2107 sats per dollar
TOPICS: Corporate FOMO. BIPs, and Taproot
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00:00 - US government regulation of Bitcoin and corporate adoption
00:20 - Euphoria and risk assets (Tesla and Bitcoin)
02:20 - Bitcoin Tuesday and guest introductions
03:30 - Bitcoin price and market impact
07:59 - Bitcoin as a threat to the US dollar
12:25 - Bitcoin's impact on financial media and denial
19:59 - Bitcoin as a store of value and savings technology
27:00 - Elon Musk's involvement with Bitcoin and Dogecoin
32:00 - Insider trading and legal implications
35:00 - Bitcoin's impact on the US dollar and Mars colonization
39:25 - Anticipation of Bitcoin price crash
40:44 - Bitcoin as an experiment
41:06 - Inertia and government response
42:12 - Banning Bitcoin as an admission
01:22:18 - Creating redeem scripts and descriptors
01:23:33 - Limitations of hardware wallets in multisig
01:28:53 - Importance of getting things right in multisig
02:03:19 - Issues with open source and contributions
02:05:06 - Challenges of making hardware and the importance of profit
02:26:08 - Debate on remote exploits and definitions
02:44:11 - Disclosure of cold card vulnerabilities
02:48:18 - The CVE process
03:02:02 - Output descriptors and their importance
03:26:08 - OpenDAI and backward compatibility
03:27:54 - Soft fork and backward compatibility
03:49:23 - Cost and availability of chips
04:07:24 - Using a private key with open source software
04:07:46 - Engaging with the audience
04:08:31 - Final words and product update
WEBVTT
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:35:03 PM
Duration: 15184.117
Channels: 1
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Think that the US Treasury and the US government is gonna let this thing get out of hand where literally corporates are starting to replace can they do. To a large do at this point. They can regulate the hell out of it. That is what they can do, and and we've already seen that. I mean, we've seen it to some extent. I'm just telling you. I mean, they're gonna let the dollar fall away from being the reserve currency for the world. So right now, we are in a a bit of a euphoric state. I mean, when you think about what are we talking about here? We're talking about Tesla, and we're talking about Bitcoin. These are 2 risk assets that have gained more than a $1,000,000,000,000
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combined in, like, the last
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6 months, and it's all based on hopium. And I don't mean to hate on all of this. All these people who are making a ton of money on both of these things, just understand that there's gotta be some sort of gravity that takes hold at some point. And the 2 of them combined
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make for, I think, a really difficult situation if they both start going down together. And the ripple effects that we will see across currency markets, financial markets, and the such could be really great. No one is talking about it right now. There are no more naysayers in Bitcoin. So I would just say to you, have at it at 45,000
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because you've taken out everybody
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who thinks it's a scam. Yeah. It is approaching 45,000,
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as we speak.
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Holy shit, freaks. What a fucking week it has been.
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That was Dan Nathan
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on CNBC.
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I guess he's the founder of some company called Risk Reversal
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Advisors,
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in absolute denial over what has happened this week.
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It appears that there's a whole lot of a lot of salty people that are in absolute denial right now, including
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much of financial media.
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It's absolutely
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insane to see play out.
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This is Citadel Dispatch
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episode 8.
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I'm your host, Matt O'Dell,
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the live show
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about Bitcoin distributed systems,
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open source, and privacy.
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Thank you for joining us for another week.
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We're gonna have a really fun Bitcoin Tuesday.
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I got my good friends,
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future Paul and NVK here to join us. NVK was with us on the first episode. You may know him as the cofounder of Koincite.
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Me and Paul have become close friends over the last year.
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Probably most famous for being a cofounder of The Verge, and he was on The Verge cast for a long time.
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One of my favorite non Bitcoin shows.
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So what's up, guys?
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How are you feeling over there?
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Go ahead, Paul. It's your first time.
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I feel I feel great. Did you notice he said ripple effects? You think he's he's long
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XRP?
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Oh, Matt has always been a shield for XRP shield. He's army.
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I'm just gonna have to end the episode early.
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Go dump, man. Go dump. I'm stoked to be here. Although, it really is we're getting to the point where it all time highs only, like, count in, like, 10 k increments pretty soon. You
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know? Like, a one k all time high is not that big of a deal. So, I mean, let's talk about that for a second. I mean,
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yesterday, we had a $9,000
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daily candle.
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Ew. It's a good idea. In in March
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in March, the price was, like, $37100.
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Right? So,
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I I feel like people do not really realize the gravity of what the fuck is going on right now.
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I've
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like, we're about to just have our faces ripped off. Right? They they they won't see it. Like I said, there's a there's a fucking tsunami of money coming.
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Like
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the amount of like private messages I've been getting from people that work at
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at, like, big organizations
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and they're all looking into it.
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I don't think people comprehend
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the amount of money that's coming. It's like retail
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essentially just became irrelevant. Right? Like, it it doesn't matter how much coins retail buy now. They they won't make any difference in the price anymore.
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That that's how much money is coming in now.
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Do we even know the timeline of the Tesla buy? Like, how long did they do that over? Because that I mean.
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So there was a Redditor that posted about I think it was, like, about a month ago,
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that Tesla
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was buying something like 800,000,000
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dollars worth of Bitcoin.
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You know, it was not taking serious. Right?
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But, hey. You know? It turned out that they did. But but, again, I I don't know.
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I've researched the info on Tesla. There is no info.
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So, for for for all I know,
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they bought something like GBTC or they bought a position on somebody else's
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stash,
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and that's why they didn't release any information. Right?
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So it's like it's $1,000,000,000
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of
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of news.
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There is there is no BTC
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so far to be accounted for. I mean, there could be and they don't wanna talk about it,
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but so far there is no info. So I can't list them because
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if it is GBTC, it would be double counted.
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Right. So so to the listeners out there that aren't aware,
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in,
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Rodolfo's free time when he's not,
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you know, running, the leading hardware wallet manufacturer or shitposting on Twitter. He's also running a website called bitcointreasuries.org,
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that lists how much Bitcoin these publicly traded companies are holding because,
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per SEC filings, they have to report how much they have, I believe.
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I think this filing, maybe they didn't have to. Right? It's, like, 10 k or something, and they're going to have to at some point in the future.
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Yeah. But I found it fishy because,
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see,
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you would be,
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again, if their if their if their strategy
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was to to essentially
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take,
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take on micro strategy or sort of, like, beyond the news for Bitcoin holding,
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they would have just used the
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this the because really, you you only get the PR cycle in a large scale for these companies, like, in the first one. Right?
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So it would have been in their interest to do that. I think they didn't because
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it would have been a bit of a flop when they would say that's just a stake on somebody else's Huddl.
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I mean,
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I just
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I mean, before I go any further, before I forget, I just wanted to say about Dan Nathan. I mean, that clip that that we played for you in the beginning of this of this episode, the show,
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I mean, he literally he was scared. It was like he's like, companies are just gonna switch to holding Bitcoin.
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Why would they hold the US dollar? And that's just amazing to me. It's like, even the haters this is one of the things I really always loved about,
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our favorite congressman,
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Brad Sherman. Is, like, even the haters realize that Bitcoin is designed
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to just eat the world, and the only way they can fathom stopping it is if if they basically ban people's ability to use it. Like, try and they're gonna actively try and stop it. Otherwise,
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why would you ever hold the US dollar on your balance sheet? That's ridiculous. The thing is just designed to dump forever.
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I mean, it is the best
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of the Fiat shitcoins. Right?
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What? The US dollar? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the least worst Fiat shitcoin. I mean, at least you guys are not stuck with Canadian Bezos like I am.
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Well, it is starting I mean, the more I have learned about this over time of of getting immersed in the Bitcoin, it kinda starts to look like it's the United States only export.
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Like, all we make is this dollar that has
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some level of,
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price stability.
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And it and it's just it's just the bottom is falling out, and
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everybody loves it. Yeah. It's a fantastic product. I mean, listen.
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If I if I I'm Canadian, and I hold USD.
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So so, like,
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I mean How do you how do you hold USD? Oh, in Canada, we can have USD denominated bank accounts. So I have both CAD and USD.
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It's like a button you push?
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Kind of. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's the Internet of shit for banks. Yeah. I mean, it's like,
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you know, you just you you log in to your account and and you can deposit, like, it's actually a USD account. It's not like it's like they they hold USDs. I mean, Canadian dollar is, like, essentially a basket of USD
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plus a few other
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stupid things.
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There isn't much more to it at the end of the day. So Canadian Central Banks holds a fuck ton of USD.
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So it's not too hard for them to make
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use of the denominated,
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bank accounts here. Well, I mean, the the the cat is fucked first. Right? The Canadian rupees or whatever?
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Yeah. So it's complicated
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because,
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see, Canada has a fuck that on natural resources and a bunch of other shit that if they got their shit together,
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they could pump. Right? So much so that, say,
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about 20 years ago, it was 1 to 1. Right? The USD.
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So
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the the the issue here is
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that they don't, and they wanna play the printing game too. But now the printing you can't do printing on top of printing. Right? It's kinda like doing averages on top of averages. You know you don't do that.
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So,
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so now we're playing a game that we can't win anymore in Canada. And,
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yeah. I mean, Canadian dollars go to shit. I mean, who the fuck would hold them?
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I mean, you have you have to buy to pay taxes. Right? I mean, yeah. You hold the minimum. You hold the bare minimum. Right?
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Wow.
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But also the the banks bone you when you try to exchange, right, between the so,
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you know, yes. You can do if you do a little large volume of USD, you can you can have a proper effects account. Right? Even if your own, like, version of it. Even talking about that. Right? Like, who
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like,
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the there's there's this domino effect that's happening.
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And I think even,
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you know, I I I'm overwhelmed with this this feeling that I feel like everything that needs to be said has been said.
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Like, I don't like, now we just watch it play out. We just watch everything play out like we thought it was gonna fucking play out.
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And
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in some ways, it's happening
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at the speed that I expected, but in some ways, it's
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blowing, you know, blowing it away. Like, I if
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I think Elon has a bag. I thought Elon had a bag. Right? But for for Tesla to come out of the gun so quickly with such a large purchase,
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1 and a half $1,000,000,000
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they put into Bitcoin,
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is
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just I I he can I was completely caught caught off guard? I was completely caught off guard, and I feel like I thought they were gonna be one of the later companies. I thought they were gonna do it, but I thought there's gonna be a bunch of smaller companies that were a little bit more nimble,
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you know, stuff like MicroStrategy where you have a CEO who has a lot of control,
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and I thought the the bigger companies would happen later. But now we just, like, jumped the gun,
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and it's, like, you hear rumors and stuff. Is Apple gonna do it next? Is Oracle gonna do it next? And it's just, like, are these guy there's there's, like, 2 sets of boardrooms
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in America right now, globally. Right? There's the boardroom who's just, like, completely in denial that's, like, this is Beanie Babies,
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and then there's the boardrooms that are just, like, scrambling. They're just scrambling to get as much Bitcoin as they possibly can as soon as they fucking can.
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And we're just gonna start seeing, like, $10,000
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daily candles, like, that's fucking crazy.
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Well, I mean, as soon as as soon as we cross 100,
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things get more interesting.
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And then, I I mean, like,
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all the money's coming.
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Right? And half of the world out there have no clue what's going on in the world.
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So the the way I see it is things really get interesting once we start, like, getting to half or
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all the market cap of gold.
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That that's that's when shit really hits the fan.
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Oh, we have CryptoClidesdale
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just commented,
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through through our, Twitch account, Citadel Dispatch on Twitch.
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Welcome. I think more people should use the Twitch stream because Twitch doesn't,
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fuck me on my outro outro music. So,
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consider it as an alternative to YouTube if you're currently using YouTube.
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Twitch has the best chat.
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Yeah. Exactly.
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I would I would love if more of the audience started using Twitch, even though it's still owned by one of the evil empires.
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I will say there is something that is slightly less respect like, as big of a deal as Tesla obviously is. It is slightly less respectable than Apple just because of Elon Musk. So, like, there is still, like, a whole another
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level up to do once, like, Apple or, like, one, like, the the FAANG stocks or whatever. Oh, for sure. Once they get into it, then it's just like it's it becomes, like, the boring thing to do. So was that a pun?
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No.
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No. I mean, it's pretty he's the best richest man in the world ever, you know. He's he's got like a professional troll. Like someone said, what I thought was, like, a pretty decent take,
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was,
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was, like, if if Elon there was nothing Elon could do to piss off the Elon haters
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more
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than buying Bitcoin.
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Oh, it's worth 1 the ultimate the ultimate troll move. Yeah. It's worth one bill right there just just for the shits and giggles. Right? I mean, it's only 4% of Tesla anyways.
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And and, like, Bitcoin is what? 7% of the gold supply? So the gold market cap.
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You know, we we only have, like, essentially,
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what is it? 13 x to go? 13 x to go. That's it.
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We we own them.
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I'm curious.
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So so
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so Rodolfo's been been around Bitcoin for a bit now,
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as have I.
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Paul is is a relatively new coiner compared to us.
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This is its first real, you know, bull cycle,
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after being in a bear.
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And I'm curious, like, where where's your head at right now, Paul? Like, what what is your when you woke up in the morning, like like, what were you thinking?
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It's
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I I like I look at the price like
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fuck. I used to look at the price a lot more when it was down.
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And
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up, it's like it's like a solved problem. You know? It's like, well, they won, so I don't need to, like, it I don't need to worry in my head about it because
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Bitcoin
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won. You know? That's how I feel about it right now. It it it does feel novel. I mean, people people
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came out of the woodwork
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talking to me
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after, like, the all time high. Because, like, I yeah. I've been a bit into Bitcoin ever since it was, like, just right after the 2017 run up.
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So I was I've been wrong about Bitcoin in a sense for this whole time because I'd never hit the all time high. And so after it hit the all time high, people are like, oh, hey. But I don't even know how to feel. I I
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it's like I it's it's it's affirming, but,
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it doesn't the the number actually doesn't help me at all, if that makes sense. I don't know I don't know why, But it doesn't do anything for me, I guess, because it's like, it's not,
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it's not my money to spend
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until,
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you know,
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50 years from now or, you know,
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until until hyperbitcoinization,
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basically. I don't think of it as my money. So all the numbers in between are just kind of like a a narrative I get to watch, but they don't they don't have a lot of impact on my daily life. What about the FOMO, Paul? You you just experienced
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what what they used to call savings.
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I know it sounds insane,
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but let me just explain this concept that humanity has had for most of it up until the MMT people came about.
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So
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somebody goes and works, does something. Right? It receives some money for
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it or trades. Right? What they do is they go and they put it under their mattress.
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And then when they get old or they need to buy a house or somebody gets sick, they go and they take some of it and they use it.
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And ideally
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whatever is under the mattress is worth more
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by the time they use it than when they acquired it.
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It's incredible. It's called savings technology.
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Right. And, like, all those
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you all those time slices in between when you put it under your mattress and when you spend it,
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you could pay as much or as little attention
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to it as you want to, but it doesn't really change that much. That that's the thing. Right? That Bitcoin changed everything because,
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see, before,
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in the last, say, 15 50 to a 100 years, right, like,
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if you wanted to to have any reasonable appreciation
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on your savings, you had to understand investing.
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Right?
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And if you are a retail investor, you're a sucker.
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Right? You barely make
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against real inflation or asset inflation. Right? Sure. You know, there's the bullshit ship,
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CPI sort of number. That doesn't really exist.
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So this guy is so you go to your banker or whatever and you say, hey. You know, like, you know, they'll put your your money on a mutual fund or something and then hopefully you beat inflation.
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Right?
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So what what you do is you go and you read. You read all the stupid books on how to invest. Right? And then you you essentially stock pick,
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and you have a few and and, you know, like, some people do okay, some people get wrecked.
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And and this has been the concept of savings now for for a good 20, 30 years.
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It's insanity.
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You're supposed to just receive the money, put it in an account.
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Right? And then don't look at it. You're not supposed to understand. You're not you're supposed to focus on, like, I don't know, you're a watchmaker. Go make watches. Right? Not don't learn about investing.
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Well, that's why I couldn't get stoked. I it was really fun to watch the whole GameStop thing, but I couldn't, like, I wasn't gonna go buy a sliver of a stonk or whatever. Like, because then I'd have to sit there and think about when I wanna get out. You know?
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Exactly. And I don't want I don't wanna sit there. I don't wanna sit there. You're not supposed to get out. That's what people didn't point. That's what people didn't realize. Like, there's
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an and
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and I guess part of the reason I'm overwhelmed is because it feels like the 2017
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level of bad takes and shitcoiners
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and charlatans and shit have just amplified even more,
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since 2017.
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But there were so many bad takes about how, like, DeFi fixes that and and Ethereum DeFi in quotes.
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And that's not the that that you're you're thinking in the wrong in the wrong paradigm. Right? Like, what fixes it is having a good money that you can hold that increases in purchasing power over time so you don't have to gamble on this bullshit casino.
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Yeah. I mean, defi means definancing
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suckers. Right? Like, I mean, seriously, like, smart people that I know that are into this stuff make a fucking killer.
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When there is smart people making a fucking killer, it means that there is another end of a bunch of suckers losing a fucking much.
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It's it's amazing to me that people don't see that.
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Okay. So With Bitcoin, like, nobody's losing on the Bitcoin trade here. Right? Like, you're buying, you're holding. It's not like there is some other person who's like, you're the fish. No. Like, it's just everybody's winning here.
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So so speaking of smart people, I really like to take people at face value. And Elon right now looks like a very smart person for buying
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$1,500,000,000
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of of Bitcoin, and we know that's smart.
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But also,
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you know, I follow a lot of
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Bitcoiners that I really respect, and none of them shell Dogecoin.
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So, like, there is something that's really either,
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dumb or obviously it's trolling
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or,
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nefarious
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or I don't know what. But the the the Dogecoin
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Dogecoin shill is,
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it makes him look stupid to me a little bit. You know? He was he was fucking with the SEC,
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and
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and he doesn't care about the plebs in the process. Trolling. I mean, like Yeah. Like, Doji is fun. Was fun.
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I mean, one of my favorite memes is, you know, such this much wow kinda thing. Right? Mhmm. Like,
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it's like it is fun.
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You know, and and and if you're, like, a billionaire
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putting trying to take people to Mars and and making a bunch of other stuff, like taking money from government to to, like, make cars.
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I mean, what else you're gonna do with your day? You're gonna shitpost. Right? Like and and shitposting
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with, like,
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a coin, a shitcoin that has a dog
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as the face of it. It's, like,
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fantastic. I mean, like, it doesn't get better than that. Well, especially since we're talking about polls. But, again, I nobody I respect in Bitcoin does that. We're talking about a guy I think that you talking about a guy who got got,
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you know, handcuffed by the SEC a bit over over earlier statements on Twitter, right, because of securities violations. So the fact that he he and I I I said this as a bullish case for Bitcoin in general just because Bitcoin's not a security, these guys are gonna start realizing they can pump it themselves. You know, he changed his bio and it it pumped it pumped $7,000.
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This is right
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now? It's the same case with Dogecoin
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even though that it you know, securities laws are ridiculous, like, that's just a ridiculous concept. But for whatever reason, Dogecoin doesn't fall under them.
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So he's able to do that without,
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specifically
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without
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he if he talked about Bitcoin too much, it could have been
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a securities violation in that Bitcoin is not a security, but Tesla is, and and he hadn't disclosed yet that Tesla was purchasing Bitcoin.
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And then the other question so so the most important thing is he can fuck himself for the Doge shit. It was probably it's mostly seems like a troll, but he can fuck himself. No one should buy Doge. A lot of
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it's it's it's not a threat to Bitcoin, but it's a threat to to retail that that gets burned along the way, buys the top.
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We saw the same stuff with the GameStop stuff. Or it's like that light the the the who'samacallit? That guy,
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the Litecoin guy, like Well, Charlie Lee can go fuck himself. Like, ordering what was there's a video of him, like, ordering some food from, like, somebody working behind the counter who bought who bought Litecoin. You know? Oh, that other guy, Charlie Lee. Yeah.
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The the like the Litecoin promoter, the the brand and Litecoin promoter guy. Litecoin is complicated because Litecoin was actually useful way back in the day. It was nice to have a secondary chain that was that had some reasonable
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sort of protection on it.
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It was not a pre mine.
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You know, like, he helped to the Segwit
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stuff because he was able to prove that, you know, Segwit is not broken. So, you know, it it is a shitcoin. It has no purpose now. Right? But it is different. Right? It's not like Ethereum, like, used to have essentially bake sales in Toronto,
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where they would do these events
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and try to sell like, it was exactly time share.
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They would try to to deal with the presentation, and they'll say how they are changing the world.
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And then they will say, hey.
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Buy some Ethereum. Give me your Bitcoin. Right? And they raised they raised, I don't know how much for it, like, 30 or $60,000,000
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or something at that time in Bitcoin.
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And
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and everybody who got founder shares of Ethereum got, like, ridiculously
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rich,
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with those, and and they dumped it on retail.
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So,
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so yeah. You know, it's a pre mine and all that stuff. So I I think there is there is a difference there. What I think and I think it's worth sort of bringing that out that that up. Like, there's it's like a it's a premise criminal.
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Okay. The the criminal part of Litecoin was that Charlie Lee was the CTO of fucking Coinbase.
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He pumped the shit out of it on Twitter on the expectation that he was gonna get it listed. He got it listed. He continued to pump it and then sold the top
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and, you know, and and and and knew what he was doing the whole fucking time.
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I'll I'll give Elon a little bit of a break in that I don't think anyone seriously believes that he profited off of the Doge pump Doge pump and dump. Like, I don't think he actually bought any Doge and sold any Doge.
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What is it like? What's the market cap of Doge right now? And and the the really fucked up part about the Doge thing is is something similar to what we saw with IOTA in the last cycle is that the chain is so dysfunctional
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that it leads to these pumps because
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because
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you can't actually like, if you're holding self custody, it's really hard to send to an exchange because the chain isn't working.
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And and what we see is we see a lot of these people that are trading these shitcoins,
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in these dramatic pumps. They never withdraw, so they don't even know that the that the chain isn't working,
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which is why I I always ask I behoove people to to if you're going to gamble on these shitcoins, I want you to be a proper shitcorner. I want you to withdraw and secure your keys and and use your own note.
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Holy shit, man. It like, Dogecoin is $9,000,000,000
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market cap now. Dang.
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I thought it was, like, $9,000,000.
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No. It's it's it's,
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like, it's in the top 10 now. And it's fucking trade on Robinhood. And the one good thing about it, I'll tell you the the best part about it is that Jackson Palmer, the founder of Dogecoin,
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created Doge because he hated Bitcoin Yeah. And he hates money so much,
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that he actually
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divested all of his own he sold all of his Dogecoin and rage quit Dogecoin,
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and it just keeps pumping. So the fact it's the own it's the one of the only coins that the founder hasn't made money and is actively salty about it. Like, every time it pumps, like, this guy wakes up in the morning, he's like, wow. You know, I made an even worse
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a a worse thing that's that's hurting retail than than ever Bitcoin was.
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So something else that's been this is kind of a tangent, but something else has been bugging me about, the Elon Bitcoin thing is that Bitcoin is not going to be Mars money.
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I think this is was clearly demonstrated
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in the
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Bitcoin
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astronomy.
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Well, do you guys remember this? This is in 2019
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by This is the roof of unchained capital. Right? Yeah. On unchained capital. Well, basically, he's got this first law of Bitcoin astronomy,
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the law of hash horizons.
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Given constant hash rate as a miner moves away from the center of hash of a blockchain, the number of blocks won by that miner statistically trends to 0. So when Elon goes to Mars,
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he's obviously gonna just have way less energy production there than we have on Earth. So he's not gonna be competitive, hash rate wise anyways. He doesn't want to be the opposite. No. No. It's the opposite. So so Mars actually has, like, low like, almost no atmosphere
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and is closer to the sun. So you get way more,
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power out of solar there. So,
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theoretically,
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you could, like, make a ton of power there, but let me just put it out there. This is all just, like, you know, intellectual masturbation.
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The key here is that by then, we're gonna probably have,
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like, small power reactor,
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nuclear reactors that they would be way more efficient than solar anyways.
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So, so it's kind of like a wash maybe.
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I mean and this is just mining anyway. Like,
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if they could easily use, like, lightning or something. No. So so it's tricky. Right? Because so
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the the time of radio communication to Mars, if I remember right, is about 7 minutes.
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So
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you you you you can't broadcast
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a block fast enough
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to the other planet. So whichever planet has the longest chain and the and the and the long and the the most amount of hash power essentially becomes the main chain.
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It's gonna be and and it's very easy to diverge, but somebody brought up a good, good idea about you can have a side chain.
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You can have a mine
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a a a a Mars side chain and find consensus that way. 62 brought that up. It was a heat then there you go. Also also
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shout out to all the freaks. Mars is not Mars is not closer to the sun
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than Earth. No. It's after.
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But it does have less atmosphere. Wait. Yes. It does. Right? No. Wait. Shit. I look. I don't think Mars are gonna Martians are gonna be shit corners. They're gonna figure out how to use the best money that humanity's ever had,
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and, you know, we don't need to we don't need to solve it for them right now.
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I just to bring it back here, I mean,
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do
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do are we all in consensus that Elon front ran his own company and has a has his own personal stash of Bitcoin?
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Yeah. I mean, I dude, they have had a Bitcoin ATM in their factory there for Well, it's not a real it's a fake ATM. Really? It's so Liberty x Liberty x,
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made it so that any ATM provider, like, traditional ATM provider can also add a Bitcoin option to their regular ATM. So it's one of those.
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So there was, like, a regular third party ATM provider in his in his,
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super factory or gigafactory, whatever he calls it, and then and then that that
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operator
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updated the firmware to add Liberty x support. I see. Anyways, I I doubt that there is any
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technically
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like,
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a technical guy who's sort of, like, more on the libertarian side out there who doesn't have Bitcoin
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out of these sort of, like,
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big time people.
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I'd be very surprised if they don't have some personal stash. So, I mean, all these guys are gonna front run their own companies. Oh, yeah. I mean, but these guys don't need money. Right? Like, they're doing probably just for the shits and giggles. No. They like like like being rich has ever stopped a rich person from wanting to accumulate more money. But it's it's different though. Like,
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I I can't imagine, like, Elon waking up in the morning and looking at his Bitcoin huddle and saying, hey. I just made an extra 20%
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on my on my stash,
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like most of the freaks would.
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It's just
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it's it's guaranteed money.
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I I think it's guaranteed freedom.
390
00:31:41.900 --> 00:31:49.200
I just think he's still engaging with it at a really surface level, and this is all because of the Doge the Doge tweets that really threw me off.
391
00:31:49.725 --> 00:31:54.525
I don't know. I think I think Doge is more of a signaling mechanism that you're more aware of the
392
00:31:55.245 --> 00:31:59.320
you know, he's not talking about DeFi or any of he's he's not saying crypto or blockchain.
393
00:32:00.020 --> 00:32:05.800
Right? Like, when someone says crypto or blockchain, it's a signaling mechanism to me that they're just completely missing the plot.
394
00:32:06.184 --> 00:32:12.845
A doge meme has a doge meme is like something like, you know, someone who's been in the space for a while thinks doge is still hysterical.
395
00:32:13.225 --> 00:32:20.270
Here here's the test. I have a good test. Can somebody try to find out from Elon if he knows about barbecue coin?
396
00:32:21.370 --> 00:32:27.115
If he knows about barbecue coin, he's definitely OG and has some Bitcoin.
397
00:32:28.855 --> 00:32:30.395
I'm just googling barbecue
398
00:32:30.775 --> 00:32:34.100
coin real quick. It's bbq coin. Mhmm.
399
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:40.180
Yeah. It's like it's it's right from the early days of everybody just forking core,
400
00:32:40.664 --> 00:32:41.885
changing some values,
401
00:32:42.345 --> 00:32:42.845
and,
402
00:32:43.304 --> 00:32:48.320
launching their own fork. My point is if you're a CEO of a public company, you buy Bitcoin ahead of time.
403
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:57.885
You buy Bitcoin ahead of time, then you announce your company is moving some of their treasury reserves into Bitcoin on that side. Illegal. That's that's totally illegal. You can't do that.
404
00:32:58.445 --> 00:33:01.345
That's what they do. Risk it. That's what Sailor did.
405
00:33:01.645 --> 00:33:09.760
No. He didn't Sailor front ran his own company. Yeah. He admitted to front running his own company. He told yeah. He disclosed to the board that he did, and then he did it anyway.
406
00:33:11.180 --> 00:33:21.934
Yeah. There there must be, like, some caveat there. Do you call them no. Because it's not a security. It's like it's like, it's a loophole it's a loophole in their bullshit system. Like, it it'd be like if a company
407
00:33:22.635 --> 00:33:29.279
put gold on their balance sheet and see those losses. Exist anyways. I feel like somebody during the the the
408
00:33:29.659 --> 00:33:36.175
the Bitcoin for Corporation seminar or whatever it was called, I feel like they some of the accounting people were talking about, like
409
00:33:36.735 --> 00:33:50.649
like, phases where sometimes they're, like, frozen where they they their employees can't buy, and then they, like, unlocked and then they can buy. I don't quite understand. It it gets tricky. I'm certain that that, like, he checked to his lawyer.
410
00:33:52.445 --> 00:33:56.225
Because no. Like, I mean, seriously, especially if you're a US resident. Right? I mean, like,
411
00:33:57.005 --> 00:33:59.480
you you you don't wanna fuck with the SEC. So,
412
00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:11.405
I'm certain that he checked with his lawyer on the right way of doing that. There might be a period. You know, who knows? Maybe, like, 30 days or whatever. People don't realize it's completely legal. Yeah. It's a game.
413
00:34:12.505 --> 00:34:13.005
Everybody
414
00:34:13.865 --> 00:34:22.310
does insider trading. There is no other kind of trading. Insider trading because Bitcoin is not a security. No. I understand. But what I'm just saying is, like,
415
00:34:22.665 --> 00:34:29.244
all the security stuff is bullshit. Should all just be a free for all. Fuck all this stuff. I agree. I 100% agree. But, you know,
416
00:34:29.785 --> 00:34:31.405
it's also fucking hysterical
417
00:34:32.060 --> 00:34:32.560
that
418
00:34:32.860 --> 00:34:37.760
that this, like, loophole exists, and it's it exists in a way that's gonna end up,
419
00:34:38.915 --> 00:34:48.960
you know, defanging everything that they've that they have built in terms of regulatory framework. I love the fact that he keeps on repeating now on every appearance
420
00:34:49.260 --> 00:34:51.520
that Bitcoin is not gonna replace the dollar.
421
00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:53.440
He totally clued in.
422
00:34:53.980 --> 00:34:55.200
That is the best
423
00:34:55.945 --> 00:34:56.445
strategy
424
00:34:57.145 --> 00:34:59.885
to not have the US government go out. Yes.
425
00:35:00.265 --> 00:35:02.685
It's brilliant. Do you think he doesn't believe that. Right?
426
00:35:03.150 --> 00:35:04.130
Of course not.
427
00:35:05.069 --> 00:35:10.849
Like, there's no reason to hold dollars all the time at the end of the day. The guy is literally doing a speculative attack on the dollar.
428
00:35:13.375 --> 00:35:17.555
Like, come on, dude. I mean, seriously. Right? How are you gonna buy coffee?
429
00:35:18.175 --> 00:35:21.210
Yeah. Exactly. But but, you know, it's quite brilliant. Right? Like, because
430
00:35:21.510 --> 00:35:25.930
you you don't want to bring because, you know, like, inside,
431
00:35:26.230 --> 00:35:30.395
like, this this this agencies of the government, there is smart people,
432
00:35:30.695 --> 00:35:38.240
but there is also a ton of fucking dumb people, and there is a lot of thumb, dumb middle management who actually makes the decision what to go after. Right?
433
00:35:38.859 --> 00:35:39.920
And I'm sure
434
00:35:40.300 --> 00:35:41.040
the small,
435
00:35:41.580 --> 00:35:57.640
smart minority of these people have been sort of telling their bosses, dude, this Bitcoin thing is a big deal. We need to go after it. Right? But, you know, all these big bosses probably say, no. No. It's not gonna go anywhere. Look. Michael Saylor is saying on TV. It's not going after the dollar.
436
00:35:59.779 --> 00:36:01.000
Holy shit. 49.
437
00:36:01.940 --> 00:36:07.045
Well, so 49 is the the bottom price to those watching the stream is the the bisque price.
438
00:36:07.345 --> 00:36:12.890
Oh, okay. The real price. Yeah. The real price, and the top one is the evil empire. It's Coinbase pro. Yeah. I use,
439
00:36:13.690 --> 00:36:15.309
the the bull Bitcoin
440
00:36:15.930 --> 00:36:16.750
sell price
441
00:36:17.450 --> 00:36:20.349
is a good, is a good, reference for Canadians
442
00:36:20.785 --> 00:36:22.805
on what the Bitcoin is actually worth
443
00:36:23.105 --> 00:36:23.765
in Canada.
444
00:36:25.985 --> 00:36:35.880
It's 60 right now. I get I mean, when you put it that way, like, that's pretty clear. Right? Like, he's speculative attacking the dollar, and he's like, oh, but we're not a not the dollar isn't under attack.
445
00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:43.694
And then everybody's like, oh, no. Look. The the Wall Street people, they're not legit. They don't deserve to own Bitcoin,
446
00:36:44.315 --> 00:36:52.010
and and these are end caps. Jesus Christ. It reminds me of Putin's strategy. Like, you figured out he figured out this is like the whole world, like,
447
00:36:52.790 --> 00:36:58.234
with the whole Crimea thing. Like, when he he just he just took their emblem off of the army.
448
00:36:58.934 --> 00:37:07.550
And and that was, like, enough denial for, like, the overwhelming majority of sheep were, like, oh, well, you know, Putin says those aren't his troops, So I we're just gonna have to believe them.
449
00:37:08.490 --> 00:37:17.365
I mean, to be fair, after reading a little bit more history, the Crimea stuff now makes more sense. I mean, like, Russia does have some claims. Oh, a 100%, but, like, those weren't their troops.
450
00:37:18.785 --> 00:37:19.285
Exactly.
451
00:37:21.870 --> 00:37:29.970
Yeah. I mean, that's pretty so I I think I think people so so do I kinda go back a little bit, Paul. I mean, you seem to be, like, numb with the price movements,
452
00:37:31.184 --> 00:37:32.005
which I think
453
00:37:32.785 --> 00:37:35.204
me and Rodolfo could attest to as well.
454
00:37:35.585 --> 00:37:40.565
But but, k, you wanna talk to the audience a little bit about the FOMO you feel every morning?
455
00:37:42.820 --> 00:37:44.520
Well, I don't have enough Bitcoin.
456
00:37:46.740 --> 00:37:48.040
That's how everybody feels.
457
00:37:48.484 --> 00:37:48.984
And,
458
00:37:49.685 --> 00:37:55.945
it makes me wanna be better at my job so I can earn more money so I could buy more Bitcoin
459
00:37:56.410 --> 00:38:02.430
or find another job so I could buy more Bitcoin or, you know, it makes me think about how do I get more Bitcoin a lot.
460
00:38:03.290 --> 00:38:04.830
But, yeah, that's about it.
461
00:38:05.365 --> 00:38:06.105
Oh, 6102
462
00:38:06.485 --> 00:38:11.465
got it there in all caps. Plausible deniability works. Caps or Dell. Oh, by the way, freaks,
463
00:38:12.885 --> 00:38:14.565
I hope you appreciated that this,
464
00:38:15.430 --> 00:38:17.530
this stream went out on Twitter in all caps.
465
00:38:17.910 --> 00:38:19.130
It's very intense.
466
00:38:19.430 --> 00:38:20.810
I feel like it's now.
467
00:38:21.270 --> 00:38:24.970
I you know what you know what it is? It's like I'm overwhelmed right now
468
00:38:26.995 --> 00:38:31.255
with this I guess, Spot is not legal there. Right? I just feel like no one is listening.
469
00:38:31.875 --> 00:38:38.460
You you know? Like like people don't even the people that realize, even the freaks that have been, you know,
470
00:38:39.240 --> 00:38:42.460
with me week after week for the last two and a half years,
471
00:38:43.234 --> 00:38:45.974
Like, none of us are ready. We cannot fathom
472
00:38:46.835 --> 00:38:50.935
where we're about to go. Like, I have a tweet from November where I'm like,
473
00:38:51.970 --> 00:38:52.470
I
474
00:38:53.010 --> 00:38:55.430
am probably more ready than 99%
475
00:38:56.049 --> 00:39:02.605
of of people about what comes next. And I wish I had more but I still wish I had more time, to be honest. And
476
00:39:03.225 --> 00:39:04.125
I feel like
477
00:39:04.585 --> 00:39:11.000
looking back on that, like, I still was not ready for what came next. Like, I was still caught the fuck off guard. I still,
478
00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:12.120
you know,
479
00:39:12.900 --> 00:39:18.485
was just did not appreciate the scale that was gonna happen and the speed that was gonna happen.
480
00:39:18.785 --> 00:39:20.245
And I just kinda was like,
481
00:39:21.265 --> 00:39:25.205
you know, maybe if Caps O'Dell was around in November, we would have paid more attention.
482
00:39:25.970 --> 00:39:28.309
Dude, I can't fucking wait.
483
00:39:28.690 --> 00:39:29.670
I can't wait
484
00:39:29.970 --> 00:39:30.950
for the 250
485
00:39:31.329 --> 00:39:32.309
crash 250.
486
00:39:32.770 --> 00:39:34.150
Oh, it's gonna be glorious.
487
00:39:34.895 --> 00:39:35.635
I mean,
488
00:39:37.455 --> 00:39:41.475
it's like there's nothing more fun in Bitcoin than seeing the price crash.
489
00:39:42.010 --> 00:39:50.270
It's like it's kinda sucks in a way, but it sucks awesome. It's like sitting in a blind in the winter waiting for a game to pass by. It's like it's cold.
490
00:39:50.694 --> 00:39:51.434
It's painful,
491
00:39:51.734 --> 00:39:53.035
but fuck, it's fun.
492
00:39:53.655 --> 00:39:56.234
You know, you see all the talkers,
493
00:39:56.694 --> 00:39:58.395
all that stuff all disappear,
494
00:39:59.095 --> 00:40:00.474
and then it's just like
495
00:40:01.080 --> 00:40:01.580
silence.
496
00:40:02.120 --> 00:40:03.420
Everybody can focus,
497
00:40:03.720 --> 00:40:05.580
everybody already made a bit of money,
498
00:40:06.600 --> 00:40:15.905
you know, it's just so good. When the price is pumping and just starting to pump right now. Right? I mean, we're gonna just beginning. I know. Exactly. It's like
499
00:40:16.430 --> 00:40:18.530
the kind of money that's coming in now,
500
00:40:19.230 --> 00:40:20.450
you know, we might get $2,000,000
501
00:40:20.830 --> 00:40:23.010
by the end of the year. Kind of some parity.
502
00:40:24.110 --> 00:40:25.330
You know, it's not impossible.
503
00:40:25.865 --> 00:40:27.085
Let's put it this way.
504
00:40:28.905 --> 00:40:31.485
I still remember when, like, people used to say that, like, $1,000
505
00:40:31.785 --> 00:40:34.020
is moon price. Oh my god.
506
00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:36.420
Moon. People used to say that?
507
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:38.420
Yeah, man. A $1,000
508
00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:42.125
price moon. When I got in when I got in, I thought 10,010,000
509
00:40:42.825 --> 00:40:43.645
was my moon.
510
00:40:44.185 --> 00:40:44.685
Wow.
511
00:40:45.385 --> 00:41:00.675
Yeah. I know. It's like And I I, like, laughed at myself a little bit. I was like, you know, that'd be great, but I I I'd also be happy with, you know, half of it. I think, like and I've been saying, like, Bitcoin is an experiment that can go away tomorrow up until, say, around, like, 5, $10,000.
512
00:41:02.015 --> 00:41:15.645
I'm like, there's still a chance that this should be changed. That's not the case anymore. No. It's because now we have inertia. Right? There's Lindy. Like, it's very hard to kill this thing now. Like, even even, like, even if the whole sort
513
00:41:15.945 --> 00:41:18.365
of even the whole network now makes stupid decisions.
514
00:41:18.665 --> 00:41:19.165
Right?
515
00:41:19.545 --> 00:41:25.670
Say you make the block bigger or something like that. There is so much inertia now that even with
516
00:41:26.050 --> 00:41:27.350
a a less optimal,
517
00:41:29.330 --> 00:41:30.790
protocol, a less optimal,
518
00:41:32.085 --> 00:41:32.585
money,
519
00:41:33.125 --> 00:41:33.865
it still
520
00:41:34.325 --> 00:41:35.385
probably wins.
521
00:41:36.165 --> 00:41:38.745
That's how much inertia there is now in Bitcoin.
522
00:41:39.125 --> 00:41:39.945
Right? Like,
523
00:41:40.450 --> 00:41:41.910
it's just so much that, like,
524
00:41:42.369 --> 00:41:49.349
governments clued in that they clued in late. So now they just sort of, like, probably trying to figure out how they capture
525
00:41:50.185 --> 00:41:58.350
the capturable and how they capture some of the upside as well. Right? They they they there is no government talking about banning Bitcoin anymore. Have you heard of any?
526
00:41:58.990 --> 00:42:10.925
In India, literally. Okay. But you just say all kinds of shit on TV. Right? I mean, like I mean, I'm fine with it. I expect them to. They're they're borderline authoritarian over there. You know, they did the whole KYC with the cash. Yeah.
527
00:42:11.945 --> 00:42:13.865
Go ahead. It's so cool that,
528
00:42:14.265 --> 00:42:24.270
banning Bitcoin is like a total admission that your money is a shit coin. That's the cool part. Could you could pretend that you have a good money until you have to ban a competitor.
529
00:42:26.135 --> 00:42:28.635
Yeah. Then you're anti choice. Then you're anti freedom.
530
00:42:29.975 --> 00:42:37.430
Yeah. Because, like, Bitcoin, it's just it's just this little thing. You we just made this thing with some computers, you know. We're just playing around with some cryptography
531
00:42:37.730 --> 00:42:47.464
and and and got some raspberry pies and stuff. There's nothing there's nothing going on here, but it is not money. It's not it's not it's not USD.
532
00:42:49.490 --> 00:42:50.369
Yeah. I I mean, it
533
00:42:52.130 --> 00:42:59.455
it's so easy for me to see Bitcoin as a as, like, a a thing that works, already works? Because, like, I grew up in Brazil. Right?
534
00:42:59.755 --> 00:43:02.095
And, you know, we had, like,
535
00:43:02.555 --> 00:43:07.829
10 fucking no. Actually, no. My my generation had 3 or 4 failed currencies
536
00:43:08.690 --> 00:43:10.309
and a a bail in haircut.
537
00:43:10.690 --> 00:43:11.190
Right?
538
00:43:12.174 --> 00:43:19.474
It it's just so obvious to me that, like, back then, the the race was, like, how much can I cap how much, like,
539
00:43:20.240 --> 00:43:22.020
USD can I hold? Right?
540
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:32.234
Mhmm. So you you try to scramble to buy USD at whatever shit rate you could you could get because it's better than your money just losing 20, 30, 50 percent value per year. Right?
541
00:43:33.575 --> 00:43:38.270
So so Bitcoin is just so obvious. Right? I mean, like, you have this thing that appreciates.
542
00:43:39.049 --> 00:43:41.309
It's not like the volatility sucks
543
00:43:41.645 --> 00:43:50.705
for a person in that situation because they don't have enough capital to to just survive the the fluctuation. Right? They they they have to sell a bit, so they might sell at a loss.
544
00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:54.540
But even then, it's too much better than their garbage currency.
545
00:43:56.920 --> 00:44:02.715
Like, there is no questions anymore of the validity or or usefulness of the system.
546
00:44:03.655 --> 00:44:07.915
I mean, like, look at gold. Gold has been a fucking, like, pet rock sinking.
547
00:44:10.089 --> 00:44:16.829
Well, I love I love it's it's it seems so obvious now in hindsight, but obvious I haven't thought of it until Seth Godin
548
00:44:17.315 --> 00:44:23.734
started, like, this new book with this idea. Like, the reason fiat won is because it's it's money across
549
00:44:24.115 --> 00:44:35.234
space. Like Yes. Gold was money across time and that was great. But actually, we needed to upgrade for a global society. So we added money across space. And now we've got money across time and space.
550
00:44:35.695 --> 00:44:36.994
That's that's both worlds.
551
00:44:37.454 --> 00:44:38.195
Yeah. So
552
00:44:39.135 --> 00:44:41.150
so so the thing is, like,
553
00:44:42.750 --> 00:44:49.569
they like, when people talk about gold and, you you know, is this the great store of value blah blah blah, especially like the libertarian LARPers. Right?
554
00:44:51.555 --> 00:44:54.215
The problem with gold is that gold lost.
555
00:44:54.675 --> 00:44:55.975
It literally lost.
556
00:44:56.355 --> 00:44:56.855
Right?
557
00:44:57.234 --> 00:44:58.455
Because it's capturable.
558
00:44:59.020 --> 00:45:03.760
So what does government do best with capturable things? They take it.
559
00:45:04.700 --> 00:45:13.625
They have the the boots and they have the guns. So they go and they take it. Right? It happened to every major city that had gold in it through history, period.
560
00:45:14.405 --> 00:45:22.090
What what percentage of of Bitcoin right now do you think is is capturable, like, with a phone call? Like, I'm just gonna call up
561
00:45:23.315 --> 00:45:24.615
PayPal and Coinbase.
562
00:45:25.075 --> 00:45:26.695
It's at least $1 a half $1,000,000
563
00:45:26.995 --> 00:45:30.295
on on Coinbase between Coinbase exchange and custody.
564
00:45:30.630 --> 00:45:32.010
So so from
565
00:45:32.310 --> 00:45:34.650
my numbers is about 10 to 15%.
566
00:45:35.030 --> 00:45:39.849
It's like one phone call. And then 2 phone calls, they probably capture, like,
567
00:45:40.175 --> 00:45:40.675
25%
568
00:45:40.975 --> 00:45:43.715
of Bitcoin. What's a what's a 2 2 phone call?
569
00:45:44.175 --> 00:45:46.595
Well, 2 phone call is kinda like,
570
00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:52.660
say say, like, there is a billionaire known for having coin himself,
571
00:45:53.280 --> 00:46:01.365
but it's not a certain his business. It's not a certain city on Coinbase, but he's not willing to move because he has way more money somewhere out, like, on other things. Right?
572
00:46:01.745 --> 00:46:02.245
So
573
00:46:02.945 --> 00:46:23.960
so instead of just being one phone call to Coinbase saying give you the money, you'll be more like a a phone call to the police people saying go get the go tell the guy and then go talk to the judge to get it. It's It's like when you go get it. Silk Road hacker. He hacks Silk Road. Yeah. It was just like a 2 step thing instead of If he figured out who he was, they figured out who he was, and they, like, sent him a letter.
574
00:46:24.599 --> 00:46:38.885
So yeah. So I I think 25 had to manually give them the coin. Right? But he he just cared about his freedom enough to do it. That's exactly right. It's like people who forfeit it so they don't go to jail, and they're not willing to move because they have other shit going on. Which is a lot of people.
575
00:46:39.505 --> 00:46:41.765
Well, yes and no. Right? Because
576
00:46:42.710 --> 00:46:44.730
a lot of people would not move
577
00:46:45.030 --> 00:46:46.570
over tax hikes,
578
00:46:47.110 --> 00:46:51.530
but a lot of people would move over a 100% for feeding kinda situation.
579
00:46:53.285 --> 00:46:55.785
So so it changes the dynamic very quick.
580
00:46:57.205 --> 00:47:00.984
I guess also the dynamic if, like, the majority of what you own is Bitcoin.
581
00:47:01.359 --> 00:47:04.339
Exactly. Right? I mean It becomes it becomes more,
582
00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:23.420
likely that you'll go down with the ship. Right? No. What happens is you have a boat parade, and then there's a a very bad weather, and then there is, like, all the boats sink that day. I've been trying to add more regular segments to this show, and one of them that I've I've really liked the idea is how would you kill Bitcoin, and I feel like it really fits,
583
00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:28.914
it fits into this current conversation well, so might as well just bring it up now. Do you
584
00:47:29.555 --> 00:47:38.410
so do you think that and and let's let's just go let's pretend we're the the most sophisticated actor in the world. You're the US government. Do you think the US government could stop Bitcoin right now
585
00:47:40.329 --> 00:47:42.990
if they wanted to? Probably. I don't know if they would be willing to pay the price.
586
00:47:44.170 --> 00:47:45.390
What do you think, Paul?
587
00:47:46.885 --> 00:47:49.465
My my pet theory of how
588
00:47:49.845 --> 00:47:53.945
the US government could kill Bitcoin is by embracing it
589
00:47:54.290 --> 00:47:58.630
and then, like, taking over the software development and just making
590
00:47:59.090 --> 00:48:04.315
really awful software that nobody likes. That's hard to run, and it just, like, even rolling worse.
591
00:48:05.255 --> 00:48:06.795
Yeah. That's Operation Orchestra.
592
00:48:07.735 --> 00:48:08.235
Like,
593
00:48:10.070 --> 00:48:12.470
sorry. Go on YouTube and watch the presentation by,
594
00:48:13.110 --> 00:48:17.610
the the the free BSD guy in 2014 about operation
595
00:48:17.990 --> 00:48:18.490
Orchestra.
596
00:48:19.975 --> 00:48:24.955
It's totally worth watching. That's exactly how they destroyed open SSL, for example.
597
00:48:25.734 --> 00:48:27.515
You just make a bunch of bad,
598
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:31.620
very bad decisions. You make the software awful. There's no documentation,
599
00:48:32.160 --> 00:48:35.140
and then it just add all the bugs that he can exploit later.
600
00:48:35.744 --> 00:48:41.765
Right. Yeah. You sneak in some some inflation bugs or Yeah. Totally. The double the double spin.
601
00:48:42.680 --> 00:48:57.815
Yeah. Or and just see if and then and then you can get a whole bunch of FUD going and and But but, you know, they they they have the capabilities to do a a war of attrition in many fronts. Right? So in one side, they print and buy. Right? And they could even print, not tell anybody and buy.
602
00:48:59.180 --> 00:49:01.819
They can use one of their hedge funds, like, you know, the government,
603
00:49:02.140 --> 00:49:05.280
arm, like, Andreessen Horowitz or one of those.
604
00:49:06.835 --> 00:49:11.895
And and then and then on the other end, they can introduce a bunch of friction and then a bunch of grief
605
00:49:12.435 --> 00:49:13.175
on the
606
00:49:13.770 --> 00:49:18.750
on the on the Bitcoin core sort of developing like they did with the with changing blacklist,
607
00:49:21.050 --> 00:49:23.150
variable there and everybody got pissed.
608
00:49:24.325 --> 00:49:27.785
And then and then they can they can also sort of, like,
609
00:49:28.484 --> 00:49:31.305
build a fuck ton of and then and then
610
00:49:31.809 --> 00:49:37.589
go and, like, destroy those the the factories to sell to everybody else so they could own Bitcoin mining eventually.
611
00:49:39.010 --> 00:49:40.950
There's a lot of ways they could do it.
612
00:49:41.865 --> 00:49:44.045
But but, again, the the level of coordination,
613
00:49:44.665 --> 00:49:47.964
money, and greed Motivation. There would have to be, like, a really
614
00:49:48.265 --> 00:49:50.845
a lot of a lot of motivation. I'm not a huge
615
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:54.580
government conspiracy guy because, like, they are all incompetent.
616
00:49:56.240 --> 00:50:01.635
What what happened with, like, Bill Barr towards the end of the last administration was,
617
00:50:02.255 --> 00:50:04.515
really pushing, like, encryption bans,
618
00:50:05.535 --> 00:50:06.194
or, like,
619
00:50:06.494 --> 00:50:09.954
everything's gotta have a backdoor. And I I felt like it wasn't too
620
00:50:10.480 --> 00:50:18.725
wasn't too threatening to Bitcoin because their method of enforcing that was to tell, like, companies Yep. Would have to build the backdoor in. So, like,
621
00:50:19.285 --> 00:50:24.585
a purely open source project doesn't have to build a backdoor in. But So I do I do think some
622
00:50:25.365 --> 00:50:25.865
some
623
00:50:26.325 --> 00:50:27.785
I don't know what an effective
624
00:50:28.329 --> 00:50:33.150
crackdown on encryption would look like, and obviously, it's been resisted before, but is an interesting
625
00:50:33.770 --> 00:50:41.155
method of of attacking a lot of good software. It's the same it's I'm just gonna jump in here real quick. It's the same it's the same situation,
626
00:50:42.015 --> 00:50:44.595
that we'd probably see with any kind of
627
00:50:47.040 --> 00:50:47.540
realistic,
628
00:50:48.080 --> 00:50:49.700
you know, likely Bitcoin
629
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:58.785
attack. And and I I think I think instead of going I think, you know, open source software is very hard to snuff out. It pretty much impossible to snuff out,
630
00:50:59.085 --> 00:51:00.945
without going, like, purely to totalitarian
631
00:51:01.645 --> 00:51:03.450
and going really hard hardcore totalitarian.
632
00:51:03.830 --> 00:51:04.970
So the result is
633
00:51:05.830 --> 00:51:13.505
is sophisticated users will be able to still use Bitcoin or sophisticated users will still be able to use PGP encryption and encrypt their communications,
634
00:51:14.045 --> 00:51:16.865
but that average law abiding American citizen,
635
00:51:17.650 --> 00:51:19.590
that average law abiding citizen
636
00:51:19.970 --> 00:51:23.910
won't get the benefit of, you know, easy encryption in Imessage
637
00:51:24.424 --> 00:51:29.144
or easy encryption in signal or easy Bitcoin payments through Apple Pay or,
638
00:51:29.625 --> 00:51:35.559
an an app that you just install from the App Store or something like that. Right? Let me just say something that you're not gonna like.
639
00:51:35.940 --> 00:51:37.880
The sheep will always get fucked.
640
00:51:38.819 --> 00:51:39.319
Seriously,
641
00:51:39.619 --> 00:51:43.474
the ratio of humans that get screwed as opposed to screw.
642
00:51:44.255 --> 00:51:47.714
Yeah. No. The the ratio of screwed versus screwy
643
00:51:48.335 --> 00:51:50.595
is all is gonna remain a constant
644
00:51:51.010 --> 00:51:51.750
through humanity's
645
00:51:52.290 --> 00:51:53.350
history, period.
646
00:51:53.890 --> 00:52:06.435
There's no way out of that. See, the difference between pre Bitcoin world and pulse Bitcoin world, we're gonna probably change the the EARS system like we did for Jesus. It's gonna be pre Bitcoin, post Bitcoin,
647
00:52:07.535 --> 00:52:08.275
is that
648
00:52:08.980 --> 00:52:10.040
before Bitcoin,
649
00:52:11.540 --> 00:52:14.120
the average person was not able
650
00:52:14.820 --> 00:52:19.615
to do anything. Right? Like, they they just did there there was no way for them to carry
651
00:52:20.075 --> 00:52:27.390
a chunk of gold or to to do anything. They had no access, right, to freedom essentially. If freedom really comes from money. Right?
652
00:52:28.810 --> 00:52:35.265
And and post Bitcoin just means that, like, now any person can have 24 words and have their wealth
653
00:52:36.045 --> 00:52:38.785
completely in outside of meat space. Right?
654
00:52:39.645 --> 00:52:40.145
So
655
00:52:41.130 --> 00:52:48.190
what Bitcoin gives the average person now is just the possibility. Right? But all we can do is take the horse to the water.
656
00:52:48.570 --> 00:52:49.390
That's all.
657
00:52:49.724 --> 00:52:50.224
Right?
658
00:52:50.925 --> 00:52:52.865
There's just so much we can do.
659
00:52:53.244 --> 00:52:55.505
Like, Bitcoin is not for everybody.
660
00:52:56.365 --> 00:52:59.230
I do like like small little crackdowns,
661
00:52:59.609 --> 00:52:59.930
like,
662
00:53:00.410 --> 00:53:01.390
I'm kind of
663
00:53:01.690 --> 00:53:05.130
I haven't been following it, but, like, this this Google banning,
664
00:53:05.609 --> 00:53:06.109
element
665
00:53:06.625 --> 00:53:07.845
for matrix chat
666
00:53:08.225 --> 00:53:11.365
is kinda fun. Because it's like, oh, well, here's a perfectly
667
00:53:12.225 --> 00:53:12.725
useful,
668
00:53:13.265 --> 00:53:16.490
good, interesting software. It's a federated alternative.
669
00:53:16.950 --> 00:53:18.250
It's encrypted chat.
670
00:53:19.270 --> 00:53:26.635
And now here's an excuse to get f droid. You know? Yeah. And and and you're not, like, going on f droid to get, like, the the world's, like,
671
00:53:27.015 --> 00:53:31.195
20th best text editor. You're going on f droid to get, like, a very,
672
00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:34.980
very good encrypted chat alternative.
673
00:53:35.360 --> 00:53:36.180
Well, actually,
674
00:53:36.640 --> 00:53:39.460
I mean, there's a whole another conversation about F droid because,
675
00:53:40.345 --> 00:53:45.565
you shouldn't download Element from F droid because it's their repo is is way delayed.
676
00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:48.260
So yeah.
677
00:53:48.880 --> 00:53:52.020
But but realistically, right, like, how many people
678
00:53:52.320 --> 00:53:57.175
of, like, talking about, like, the 7 0.5 or 8? I don't know. I lost count of humanity.
679
00:53:58.115 --> 00:53:58.855
What, 1,000,000,000?
680
00:53:59.234 --> 00:54:01.494
They're close to 8,000,000,000 people,
681
00:54:01.875 --> 00:54:07.810
right, are realistically gonna, like, use some of these tools that you have to consciously,
682
00:54:08.990 --> 00:54:18.115
like, do it. So Matrix is an interesting one. Right? Matrix is is is the concept of Matrix is interesting to me because it's another federated,
683
00:54:20.469 --> 00:54:26.450
a fed another federated tool, open source tool, similar to Mastodon as we've discussed on on this show in the past.
684
00:54:27.105 --> 00:54:30.965
In this case, it's like a Slack replacement or a Telegram replacement.
685
00:54:32.465 --> 00:54:39.020
It it is very slick. It has, like, all the features you would expect to have, and really, I think the average user,
686
00:54:39.800 --> 00:54:42.040
can interact with it without really kind of any
687
00:54:42.905 --> 00:54:46.045
they only need, like, a surface level understanding of what's going on.
688
00:54:46.585 --> 00:54:58.220
The person that needs to be sophisticated is the person who's running the instance. Right? That that that reminds me of 6. I I I have a I have a Bitcoin q and a friend of the show, and he was on the show, and he'll be on the show again.
689
00:54:58.840 --> 00:55:00.940
He launched his own instance, bitcointer.chat,
690
00:55:03.065 --> 00:55:07.805
and Diverter, who is also on the show, has his own called use the dot tools.
691
00:55:08.505 --> 00:55:15.030
And if you register with either of them, you can interact with the other ones as well, which is it's just really fucking cool.
692
00:55:15.410 --> 00:55:15.910
Like,
693
00:55:16.690 --> 00:55:17.705
that reminds me,
694
00:55:18.265 --> 00:55:22.685
every time there is a good solution that the the sheep are gonna use,
695
00:55:23.065 --> 00:55:30.940
they get skilled immediately because they know that that's the one. Right? This this is the the classic example to me is pass the popcorn.
696
00:55:31.880 --> 00:55:33.740
Like, pass the popcorn
697
00:55:34.200 --> 00:55:35.500
was the best
698
00:55:36.225 --> 00:55:38.305
current client Oh, popcorn time.
699
00:55:38.785 --> 00:55:45.445
Popcorn time. Yeah. Sorry. Past the popcorn like, streaming the street. Torrents. Right? That's right. Yes. That one.
700
00:55:46.849 --> 00:55:47.829
That was like,
701
00:55:48.210 --> 00:55:53.029
it was better than any other TV experience. It was better than Apple TV,
702
00:55:53.445 --> 00:55:55.945
Right? You just plug the thing in
703
00:55:56.565 --> 00:56:01.080
and you press the button and it works right. Like he was perfect.
704
00:56:01.380 --> 00:56:14.225
Man, I have never seen studios go after something so hard ever. They hit him hard and fast. Oh, it was, like, like, immediate. I think that thing lasted, like, 2 weeks after he got, like, some exposure.
705
00:56:14.525 --> 00:56:18.420
But that's the thing. That's where But but then, like, people forked it and, like,
706
00:56:19.059 --> 00:56:40.619
half the forks are, like, viruses. And That's the problem. The other half of the, the other half of the forks are, like, totally useful and, like, totally worked. But I wonder if some of the forks that had viruses and stuff was part of the attack. Right? Probably. Put out a bunch of 4 clients that are all scams, and you scare people out of using it. Yeah. But once once these things are taken out, like, from the the mainstream
707
00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:53.075
kind of thing of people, then it's kind of over. Right? That's the thing. We can talk about all this shit about censorship resistance. Right? You pull it out of the app store, and that's probably enough to disturb to deter most people from using it. But that's what I'm saying. Right? Like, with Bitcoin,
708
00:56:54.319 --> 00:56:56.500
the the only people who are in Bitcoin
709
00:56:57.359 --> 00:56:58.980
who are actually Bitcoiners
710
00:56:59.440 --> 00:57:01.540
are people who self validate
711
00:57:02.025 --> 00:57:03.405
and hold their own keys.
712
00:57:03.705 --> 00:57:04.765
Everybody else
713
00:57:05.465 --> 00:57:07.405
are just they they are taking
714
00:57:07.705 --> 00:57:09.085
advantage of the Bitcoin
715
00:57:09.385 --> 00:57:10.285
price upside.
716
00:57:10.839 --> 00:57:11.339
Right?
717
00:57:11.880 --> 00:57:14.940
But they're all gonna get fucked if ever
718
00:57:15.319 --> 00:57:17.579
there is a concern about ownership.
719
00:57:19.055 --> 00:57:20.275
Hey. Here's a question.
720
00:57:20.815 --> 00:57:23.235
If Apple and Google decided
721
00:57:24.335 --> 00:57:29.690
that Bitcoin was their number one enemy and they would do it what whatever it took to get rid of Bitcoin.
722
00:57:30.550 --> 00:57:31.850
Or the US government,
723
00:57:32.390 --> 00:57:33.850
this is a alternate scenario,
724
00:57:34.310 --> 00:57:44.885
decided that Bitcoin was its number one enemy, and it would do it at whatever it takes. Who has a better shot at at shutting down Bitcoin? Well, the thing is if the US government does it, they'll do it through
725
00:57:45.640 --> 00:57:46.619
Apple and Google.
726
00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:51.900
Exactly. Right? They are arms TikTok. This is this is the thing that's crazy to me about Bitcoiners.
727
00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:57.405
It's just infuriating about some Bitcoiners is that they were pro TikTok ban.
728
00:57:58.745 --> 00:58:11.230
And some of them are on Clubhouse right now too, which is kind of interesting that you have a Clubhouse. But the difference the difference between if it was a Chinese app versus an American app, all of a sudden the corporate surveillance is fine,
729
00:58:11.785 --> 00:58:18.444
if it's a US app. But if it's a Chinese app, we gotta ban it from the store. But I think you can easily drum up support for this stuff, and
730
00:58:18.830 --> 00:58:21.810
and, I mean, if I was in a position trying to kill Bitcoin,
731
00:58:23.230 --> 00:58:25.970
on on from an American government side,
732
00:58:26.484 --> 00:58:31.385
I would what I would do is I would I would I would start declaring Americans'
733
00:58:34.060 --> 00:58:34.880
terrorist organizations,
734
00:58:35.660 --> 00:58:40.400
and then I would say that those Americans are using Bitcoin to fund their terrorist operations.
735
00:58:41.100 --> 00:58:43.760
And we're already seeing the first step of that,
736
00:58:44.494 --> 00:58:56.280
with our current administration where they're they're coming out and and they're and and and and to be to be fair, we saw that with the previous administration on the Antifa side. So now we have
737
00:58:56.660 --> 00:58:58.280
we have a very opaque,
738
00:58:59.375 --> 00:59:02.675
may and it's always been that way, to be honest. A very a very opaque,
739
00:59:03.135 --> 00:59:03.955
not transparent
740
00:59:04.335 --> 00:59:11.609
way of dictating who's a terrorist and who's not, and it's just very simple step after that to say that they use Bitcoin because,
741
00:59:12.230 --> 00:59:13.849
of course, the people that
742
00:59:14.390 --> 00:59:22.505
you know, they're being censored on hold the other platforms. So, of course, that they're gonna end up using encryption in Bitcoin. Right? But, Matt, this is why it's so important for
743
00:59:22.805 --> 00:59:24.265
the privacy zealots
744
00:59:25.710 --> 00:59:26.450
to understand
745
00:59:27.710 --> 00:59:29.970
that, like, it's it's like
746
00:59:31.390 --> 00:59:33.410
all these publicly traded companies
747
00:59:33.710 --> 00:59:34.609
buying Bitcoin,
748
00:59:34.975 --> 00:59:35.875
all these politicians
749
00:59:36.175 --> 00:59:37.075
buying Bitcoin,
750
00:59:37.375 --> 00:59:39.315
all the coin bases of sorts,
751
00:59:39.775 --> 00:59:40.915
all these entities
752
00:59:41.215 --> 00:59:41.955
are moat
753
00:59:42.530 --> 00:59:43.190
for us.
754
00:59:44.210 --> 00:59:48.950
The more Bitcoin all these entities have, the better it is for us because,
755
00:59:49.570 --> 00:59:53.685
see, the US government is not gonna crash its own stock market
756
00:59:55.025 --> 00:59:55.525
by
757
00:59:55.825 --> 00:59:59.845
by making it's exactly it's like you can't win the game,
758
01:00:00.230 --> 01:00:00.730
okay,
759
01:00:01.510 --> 01:00:04.570
until you play their game with your game rules.
760
01:00:05.350 --> 01:00:07.050
See, this is why it's so beautiful,
761
01:00:07.430 --> 01:00:11.464
like what Saylor is doing with the speculative attack on the dollar.
762
01:00:12.005 --> 01:00:15.145
It's it's fucking rare. Not attacking the dollar. And then goes on TV
763
01:00:15.610 --> 01:00:23.550
and then goes on fucking TV with a straight fucking face and says, we're not coming after the dollar. It's fucking amazing.
764
01:00:26.255 --> 01:00:32.994
This is what we need. We need more of that. We need, like, another a 100 guys doing that. It's hard it's hard it's hard to say that
765
01:00:33.410 --> 01:00:39.590
that Bitcoin is is only used by terrorists when the the richest man in the world, is buying some. Exactly.
766
01:00:40.905 --> 01:00:43.885
You want all these symbols, all these people who
767
01:00:44.744 --> 01:00:50.090
you know what I mean? Like, you want a lefty symbol, you want a righty symbol, you want a center symbol, all these people
768
01:00:50.650 --> 01:00:51.550
to be Bitcoiners.
769
01:00:53.210 --> 01:00:55.550
Just a little pause here for a second.
770
01:00:57.130 --> 01:00:59.070
I guess we had a,
771
01:01:00.585 --> 01:01:04.525
a freak in the comments asked if we would do a cold card giveaway.
772
01:01:05.145 --> 01:01:06.925
Rodolfo, are you on board for that?
773
01:01:07.260 --> 01:01:09.119
Fuck him. No. I'm kidding. Yeah. Sure.
774
01:01:09.579 --> 01:01:10.319
I'm thinking
775
01:01:10.780 --> 01:01:12.720
what do you think about should we do, like,
776
01:01:13.579 --> 01:01:15.200
a Coinbase Pro price
777
01:01:15.579 --> 01:01:15.900
at
778
01:01:17.365 --> 01:01:18.724
in an hour from now at,
779
01:01:19.365 --> 01:01:20.425
at 1919100,
780
01:01:22.885 --> 01:01:35.975
eastern time? If you can come up with something more juicy, we can give a whole block clock media. What do you think? I I'm thinking about something that that they can just put it in the comments, and, like, we'll we'll know who wins in the future. Well, that's easier.
781
01:01:36.435 --> 01:01:50.280
Right? And, like, the price Yeah. Sure. Let's do it. Why no. Seriously. And and I don't wanna do the bisque one because otherwise, they're all just gonna put in a prediction, like, 5 minutes beforehand that the liquidity is so low that it's not a good thing. So we're gonna have to use the evil empire.
782
01:01:51.855 --> 01:01:54.755
So should we do should we do closest to the price,
783
01:01:55.935 --> 01:01:58.275
closest to the price at 24100
784
01:01:58.815 --> 01:02:02.420
UTC, so in an out for in 57 minutes from now,
785
01:02:03.359 --> 01:02:04.660
closest to the price,
786
01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:06.740
without going under?
787
01:02:08.535 --> 01:02:10.555
Yeah. So okay. So how about this?
788
01:02:11.255 --> 01:02:18.070
The person that gets if so if anybody gets it close to the dollar gets a block lock mini, one person, of course,
789
01:02:19.090 --> 01:02:25.190
and and, and then to win the the second, like, the the cold card, it could be anything, whoever's the closest.
790
01:02:27.155 --> 01:02:30.875
But to win a mini, you have to get close to the dollar. Okay. And you're you're
791
01:02:31.315 --> 01:02:39.370
to you have to be within a dollar to get the mini, but if if you're just closest, you get the gold card. Yeah. Is it a dollar too too little? Should it be $5?
792
01:02:39.670 --> 01:02:41.610
Let's do $5. Yeah. $5.
793
01:02:42.185 --> 01:02:43.325
And and,
794
01:02:43.705 --> 01:02:45.725
if it doesn't show up in the video,
795
01:02:46.265 --> 01:02:52.270
you're you're not included. So make sure that if if you comment the price, it needs to show up in the video between now and
796
01:02:53.609 --> 01:02:55.609
and and but guys guys guys
797
01:02:57.609 --> 01:02:59.550
well, what is it they put in 2 predictions?
798
01:03:00.655 --> 01:03:14.099
I well, that that's not to me, man. I I I hate contests, like, in terms of, like, being the arbitrator of it. Yeah. Me too. Okay. If you put in if you put if you put Oh, how about yeah. If you put 2, then the one that's the worst is the one that's yours.
799
01:03:16.535 --> 01:03:17.415
Yeah. If you put
800
01:03:18.055 --> 01:03:21.915
okay. So you only can put in 1 about this? Starting starting
801
01:03:22.375 --> 01:03:22.875
after
802
01:03:23.620 --> 01:03:25.640
after let me find here a person.
803
01:03:26.740 --> 01:03:27.240
Okay.
804
01:03:28.260 --> 01:03:34.315
Z x flee. Yeah. Just one entry. What? Yeah. So after z x flee, start again.
805
01:03:35.415 --> 01:03:35.915
Okay.
806
01:03:36.935 --> 01:03:39.435
So there is z x flee says at
807
01:03:40.055 --> 01:03:40.555
something.
808
01:03:41.150 --> 01:03:46.690
Right. There you go. Okay. Start from there. We're starting from one answer. Because we only have one you only have one prediction, guys.
809
01:03:47.150 --> 01:03:50.050
So if if you're smart, you're gonna wait to make your prediction.
810
01:03:50.695 --> 01:03:59.835
Wait. How long could they wait? Right? They gotta put it in before the cutoff. Yeah. When when what's the cutoff? So 10 minutes before 10 minutes before we cut it off?
811
01:04:00.450 --> 01:04:01.510
Yeah. Sure.
812
01:04:02.210 --> 01:04:06.310
But there's I don't care. Yeah. We'll we'll we're gonna cut it off 10 minutes before.
813
01:04:07.010 --> 01:04:12.975
Oh, we can make it even more fun. We're we're gonna, at some point between now and an hour from now,
814
01:04:13.915 --> 01:04:15.135
announce it's a cutoff.
815
01:04:17.990 --> 01:04:28.785
Okay. Yeah. If you're not in by the cutoff, then you're you're not in. Yeah. We're just not telling you when the cutoff is gonna be. Okay. Rodolfo, you're gonna choose the cutoff. At at any point during our conversation, just hit us with the cutoff.
816
01:04:29.085 --> 01:04:33.820
Nice. Alright. We can do that. That's more fun. I love 6102. That's a 4160102.
817
01:04:37.800 --> 01:04:40.300
Strong strong brand right there. That's right.
818
01:04:41.535 --> 01:04:44.115
Cheers, freaks. It would be pretty amazing if he wins, though.
819
01:04:45.935 --> 01:04:49.075
Yeah. I mean, that's crazy. So so, I mean, so we can,
820
01:04:50.130 --> 01:04:53.109
I mean, while while we're on that while we're on that tangent,
821
01:04:54.450 --> 01:04:59.829
I I thought an interesting premise for a reoccurring segment would be a price prediction for next show?
822
01:05:00.195 --> 01:05:04.135
Mhmm. Where where do you think the Bitcoin price will be on Tuesday, Rodolfo?
823
01:05:04.755 --> 01:05:06.855
Oh, Tuesday, man. Next Tuesday.
824
01:05:08.380 --> 01:05:12.320
Okay. Can I give 2 predictions? A bear and a a bear and a bull? Sure.
825
01:05:12.780 --> 01:05:14.800
Alright. My bear for next week
826
01:05:15.340 --> 01:05:15.840
is
827
01:05:16.485 --> 01:05:16.985
is,
828
01:05:17.765 --> 01:05:18.265
another
829
01:05:19.365 --> 01:05:20.985
whole fucking week
830
01:05:21.445 --> 01:05:22.585
of, like, forties.
831
01:05:24.060 --> 01:05:25.920
And the bow is,
832
01:05:26.620 --> 01:05:28.240
we jump to 60.
833
01:05:33.075 --> 01:05:36.055
What about you, Paul? My bear is
834
01:05:36.915 --> 01:05:37.415
35.
835
01:05:38.275 --> 01:05:43.480
I'm pulling on this. Don't give me a bear in both. Give me 55. What price do you think it's gonna be next week? $0.
836
01:05:44.180 --> 01:05:54.275
Yeah. That's that is the that's the spirit. My prediction to price stock stock to flow eventually goes infinite. Right? That's right. Fuck the price. It's infinite. Doesn't fucking matter.
837
01:05:54.575 --> 01:05:55.935
I I I think
838
01:05:56.974 --> 01:06:00.115
I mean, I don't I don't think we ever go under 40 k ever again.
839
01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:07.300
And, I don't think we ever go under 40 k ever again, and I think I I think we hit 50 before our HR on Thursday.
840
01:06:09.005 --> 01:06:11.025
I think we're gonna go under 40 k
841
01:06:11.405 --> 01:06:16.705
in the next week. Wow. Okay. Cool. We'll see how that plays out. I like that as a reoccurring segment.
842
01:06:19.870 --> 01:06:23.730
So, I mean, Paul, so you wanted to talk about BIPS and the BIPS process,
843
01:06:24.275 --> 01:06:27.155
and I I I think Rodolfo is a great person,
844
01:06:27.875 --> 01:06:30.214
for you to, you know, discuss this with,
845
01:06:30.515 --> 01:06:32.055
because he's been pretty active,
846
01:06:33.140 --> 01:06:35.240
in how how all that unfolds.
847
01:06:35.540 --> 01:06:37.560
And, I mean, they just submitted a new BIP.
848
01:06:38.020 --> 01:06:42.440
I guess he was he was you're a part of that Rodolfo. Right? I might have helped the name.
849
01:06:43.595 --> 01:06:45.455
For for a new BIP for multisig.
850
01:06:46.875 --> 01:06:50.815
And so Paul Paul is, you know, a a relatively new Bitcoiner,
851
01:06:51.530 --> 01:06:52.510
class of 2017.
852
01:06:53.450 --> 01:06:56.350
And he's been trying to, you know, get more involved in Bitcoin,
853
01:06:57.050 --> 01:06:58.430
from a development angle.
854
01:06:59.325 --> 01:07:03.105
And part of that has been exploring the Bitcoin improvement protocol,
855
01:07:04.045 --> 01:07:05.244
process. Right? So
856
01:07:06.280 --> 01:07:07.020
cold bips.
857
01:07:07.960 --> 01:07:11.820
Yes. It's sort of like whenever you're, like, doing anything related to Bitcoin
858
01:07:12.200 --> 01:07:12.760
like, I,
859
01:07:13.960 --> 01:07:15.660
I'll give you my specific example.
860
01:07:16.255 --> 01:07:17.075
I exported
861
01:07:17.375 --> 01:07:20.195
the generic wall export from a cold card.
862
01:07:20.975 --> 01:07:27.470
And there's a whole bunch of numbers in there, and there's 3 bips referred to in there, which are,
863
01:07:30.329 --> 01:07:37.585
their derivation path things. I don't know what they are. Yeah. Yeah. BIP. And, 24. Yeah. Yeah. You're there.
864
01:07:37.885 --> 01:07:42.740
And so and then you go look up the BIP and and what it means.
865
01:07:44.160 --> 01:07:44.660
So,
866
01:07:45.040 --> 01:07:46.099
like on github.com/bitcoin/bips,
867
01:07:48.079 --> 01:07:50.725
there's this huge list of BIPs. Yeah.
868
01:07:51.745 --> 01:07:55.925
I actually had not noticed until recently that there is an actual status
869
01:07:56.625 --> 01:07:57.285
on them.
870
01:07:57.825 --> 01:08:01.940
So you could have a BIP, and it could have a number, but it could be,
871
01:08:02.800 --> 01:08:03.300
withdrawn.
872
01:08:03.680 --> 01:08:14.265
So, like, somebody had an idea for how Bitcoin should work. People were into it, and then later on, it got superseded by something or got reversed. As far as I understand, like, right now with Taproot,
873
01:08:14.960 --> 01:08:16.340
they are, like, revising
874
01:08:17.440 --> 01:08:24.179
BIP 8. It says right now the status is in draft. So so here's here's normally how it works.
875
01:08:24.625 --> 01:08:27.204
So say you have an idea. Okay?
876
01:08:27.824 --> 01:08:29.204
I have a fantastic
877
01:08:29.585 --> 01:08:32.324
idea for Bitcoin. I think the client should be red,
878
01:08:33.025 --> 01:08:34.244
and it's red
879
01:08:37.540 --> 01:08:38.679
gray. Right?
880
01:08:39.860 --> 01:08:42.199
So what you do is you'd normally,
881
01:08:44.745 --> 01:08:49.885
before you do anything, you go talk to a few people who contribute to Bitcoin, and you say, hey. I have this idea.
882
01:08:50.505 --> 01:08:55.110
Right? The Bitcoin client should be red. They're gonna say you're an idiot. Don't do that.
883
01:08:55.650 --> 01:09:01.110
And and, you know, if enough of them telling you you're an idiot and you shouldn't be doing that, you probably shouldn't be doing that.
884
01:09:02.304 --> 01:09:05.764
But let's say a few of them say, hey. You know what? That's a great idea.
885
01:09:06.065 --> 01:09:07.364
You should write a proposal.
886
01:09:07.985 --> 01:09:12.909
So you write a proposal. You show it to a few people first, get them to sort of, like,
887
01:09:13.370 --> 01:09:14.270
tell you that
888
01:09:14.889 --> 01:09:17.070
that that has some legs. Right?
889
01:09:17.530 --> 01:09:19.310
And then what you normally do is
890
01:09:19.715 --> 01:09:24.535
you you send your idea to the mailing list, to the dev Bitcoin dev mailing list,
891
01:09:25.155 --> 01:09:31.530
and then people are gonna respond to you, giving you some feedback, giving you criticism, saying this is good, this is about whatever. Right?
892
01:09:32.070 --> 01:09:32.730
And then,
893
01:09:34.230 --> 01:09:36.810
it's very academic in that sense. Right?
894
01:09:37.815 --> 01:09:46.555
And then say you got all the feedback, you you, you know, you continue and say it's good enough. Right? So then what you do is you go on that on the BIPS
895
01:09:48.449 --> 01:09:48.949
repo,
896
01:09:49.969 --> 01:09:50.870
and and
897
01:09:51.489 --> 01:09:57.155
and you you ask to have a number, really. Right? And and, like, the the maintainers are gonna
898
01:09:57.455 --> 01:10:01.235
give that bIP a number. And if the bIP gets approved that he gets a number.
899
01:10:02.520 --> 01:10:06.699
If that bib gets approved, it means it's gonna almost certainly
900
01:10:07.159 --> 01:10:09.659
make to the Bitcoin client
901
01:10:09.960 --> 01:10:11.420
which is the core client.
902
01:10:12.965 --> 01:10:13.445
So
903
01:10:13.845 --> 01:10:15.625
Why why almost certainly?
904
01:10:17.445 --> 01:10:31.994
That could be that could be some snags. Right? Like, say I can't remember now. It's not coming to mind, but that could be, say, like, you know, you create a BIP and then essentially, it's take it takes forever to get developed into the client. Right? And then something else supersedes it.
905
01:10:32.614 --> 01:10:34.474
It could it could happen, I guess.
906
01:10:34.775 --> 01:10:39.710
It's not things coming to mind. I don't wanna talk into absolutes because we have so many bips now. We're at, like, 300.
907
01:10:40.570 --> 01:10:42.190
Talk about let's talk about,
908
01:10:44.100 --> 01:10:44.600
PSBTs.
909
01:10:45.575 --> 01:10:50.955
So PSBT is interesting because it it was a BIP, it got approved. It was sitting there.
910
01:10:51.575 --> 01:10:55.035
Just sitting there for, I don't know, like, 2 years
911
01:10:55.400 --> 01:10:58.540
or something more. I don't know. Nobody was using it.
912
01:10:59.800 --> 01:11:13.370
And then, like, we saw, like, you know, this is a great idea. So we we built CodeCard around that. Okay. See, that that that's I think part of what it makes them a little confusing for me because I see a BIP. It looks you can look it up. You can read it.
913
01:11:13.850 --> 01:11:26.804
But the because you aren't certain that it is implemented everywhere, you don't know what what does that mean. Like, it's it's it There's not a guarantee that everybody in Bitcoin is going to accommodate this even though it seems to be approved,
914
01:11:27.744 --> 01:11:29.445
as a path for Bitcoin.
915
01:11:29.760 --> 01:11:31.620
What you brought up is beautiful
916
01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:35.780
because it exactly represents a rough consensus system.
917
01:11:36.400 --> 01:11:38.785
There is no official Bitcoin
918
01:11:39.085 --> 01:11:39.585
anything,
919
01:11:40.525 --> 01:11:43.425
including Bitcoin Core and including the Bips.
920
01:11:44.125 --> 01:11:46.145
Nothing in Bitcoin is official.
921
01:11:46.940 --> 01:11:49.840
You're free to do whatever the fuck you want.
922
01:11:50.380 --> 01:11:50.880
Right?
923
01:11:51.340 --> 01:11:56.315
Now you have to do the consequences of that too. Right? If the majority of the network
924
01:11:56.775 --> 01:11:58.155
follows Bitcoin core
925
01:11:59.094 --> 01:12:03.995
now and you create a different set of consensus rules, you're probably not gonna sync. Right?
926
01:12:05.900 --> 01:12:10.320
Now when it comes to wallets and other things that are not necessarily protocol related,
927
01:12:10.860 --> 01:12:11.840
but because
928
01:12:12.835 --> 01:12:17.495
the Bitcoin network doesn't give a shit on how you do your wallet. As long as your
929
01:12:17.875 --> 01:12:18.375
UTXO's,
930
01:12:18.755 --> 01:12:20.135
your unspent outputs,
931
01:12:20.790 --> 01:12:24.250
and your transactions are signed correctly and then broadcasted,
932
01:12:24.950 --> 01:12:28.090
everything else on how you deal with your Bitcoin is your problem.
933
01:12:28.765 --> 01:12:30.225
Right? What happened
934
01:12:30.605 --> 01:12:32.545
was in the last few years,
935
01:12:33.485 --> 01:12:35.105
there's been a lot more
936
01:12:36.180 --> 01:12:37.640
attempts at standardizing
937
01:12:38.740 --> 01:12:42.235
a lot of the a lot of the ways you do wallet stuff.
938
01:12:42.795 --> 01:12:44.255
So for example, BIP 39
939
01:12:44.955 --> 01:12:46.975
is how you do the the mnemonic
940
01:12:47.435 --> 01:12:50.335
c generation, right, with the with the mnemonic words,
941
01:12:52.239 --> 01:12:52.739
But
942
01:12:53.200 --> 01:12:58.980
that bip does not even, like, pertains to, like, derivation paths. Right?
943
01:12:59.665 --> 01:13:00.485
BIP 32
944
01:13:00.864 --> 01:13:04.005
was the first one. It was the hierarchical determinate deterministic,
945
01:13:05.025 --> 01:13:10.290
path generation. Right? But it also does not tell you which paths to take.
946
01:13:11.550 --> 01:13:12.050
So
947
01:13:12.429 --> 01:13:16.850
because again So so people were like, okay. We like this BIP. This is an improvement,
948
01:13:17.215 --> 01:13:20.594
but still there were parts of the wallet that were kind of underspecified.
949
01:13:21.775 --> 01:13:27.550
Yeah. There's gonna be a lot of that, and then there is a lag between what gets approved and what makes into core.
950
01:13:28.489 --> 01:13:34.829
And then there is this thing where it's like, you know, most people don't use core as their wallet. They only use core as a node.
951
01:13:37.255 --> 01:13:45.790
So much so that Bitcoin Core got named Core as opposed to Bitcoin, just Bitcoin, because they were going to separate the wallet from the
952
01:13:46.370 --> 01:13:46.870
node.
953
01:13:47.450 --> 01:13:50.510
They were going to separate the wallet code from the consensus code,
954
01:13:51.690 --> 01:13:52.590
because technically,
955
01:13:53.675 --> 01:13:55.615
those 2 have nothing to do with each other.
956
01:13:56.075 --> 01:14:05.930
Right? Yeah. I I'm really looking forward to that seems to make a lot of sense to me to Yeah. But, you know, it's, again, right, it's very complicated to these things in rough consensus.
957
01:14:06.790 --> 01:14:08.810
Like, because there is no arbitrator.
958
01:14:09.575 --> 01:14:15.755
Right? There is no owner. There's no benevolent dictator like in Linux or anything like that. So
959
01:14:17.530 --> 01:14:18.510
So by having
960
01:14:18.890 --> 01:14:22.270
there be a wall in core, it kinda helps there be a wall consensus?
961
01:14:22.650 --> 01:14:23.870
Yeah. People people
962
01:14:24.330 --> 01:14:24.830
earnestly
963
01:14:25.405 --> 01:14:29.105
try to create things that are compatible with other things in Bitcoin. Right?
964
01:14:29.645 --> 01:14:39.020
It's just that it they're gonna deviate. Right? Like, for example, cold card, we're, like, super anal about trying to keep within bps
965
01:14:39.560 --> 01:14:42.219
even when we think some of those bps are terrible
966
01:14:44.244 --> 01:14:44.744
because
967
01:14:46.965 --> 01:14:49.625
we we want to build a thing that's just compatible.
968
01:14:50.170 --> 01:14:54.350
Right? Like, with most of the solutions and it's open. It's that way. Right?
969
01:14:55.690 --> 01:14:58.570
And we are not we don't touch shitcoins. Right? Now,
970
01:14:59.675 --> 01:15:08.335
when you have other hardware wallets or other wallets that touch shitcoins, now they need to make their stuff a little bit more pragmatic towards the shitcoins. Right? So for example, BIP 39,
971
01:15:08.850 --> 01:15:15.350
like, you know, Trezor supports a bunch of shitcoins, so they they don't wanna add a bunch of, like, extra stuff that's Bitcoin specific,
972
01:15:16.925 --> 01:15:19.345
to it because it won't be compatible with shitcoins.
973
01:15:19.805 --> 01:15:20.945
Right? So that's why
974
01:15:21.405 --> 01:15:23.265
you're really only gonna see
975
01:15:23.820 --> 01:15:26.719
Bitcoin only wallets supporting PSBTs,
976
01:15:27.340 --> 01:15:30.000
right, the partially signed Bitcoin transaction files,
977
01:15:31.235 --> 01:15:34.534
on Bitcoin only wallets, not on Shecoin wallets
978
01:15:35.875 --> 01:15:38.054
because the SPT is Bitcoin only.
979
01:15:39.960 --> 01:15:48.300
So it gets tricky. Right? Like, I mean, people have businesses to run and and it's completely understandable that they're gonna make decisions around those those pragmatic views.
980
01:15:48.905 --> 01:15:53.165
Okay. So and again, kind of on the more pragmatic side, as a user,
981
01:15:53.864 --> 01:16:03.180
when I see because, like, if you go to these bips, like, they are pretty technical. They refer to each other a lot. Yeah. So you could've Yes. See It's like the bible.
982
01:16:03.640 --> 01:16:04.140
Yeah.
983
01:16:05.375 --> 01:16:12.994
So, like, as a user, when you see someone refer to something by the BIP, like, like, what is your go to
984
01:16:14.139 --> 01:16:18.719
for for research? Like, where you where where do you go first when you're trying to, like,
985
01:16:19.340 --> 01:16:25.815
figure out what that means for you in your particular case? Well, you know, you go Neo style. Right? You follow the source.
986
01:16:27.875 --> 01:16:30.935
Like, you go to the source. You go to Bitcoin Core,
987
01:16:31.810 --> 01:16:35.670
and you go read the bips, and you go read the code. Just read the code.
988
01:16:36.210 --> 01:16:37.750
It's terrible for noobs.
989
01:16:38.210 --> 01:16:38.949
It's rape.
990
01:16:39.385 --> 01:16:41.805
But this is what I keep on trying to say to people. Right?
991
01:16:42.905 --> 01:16:44.685
Bitcoin like, true Bitcoining.
992
01:16:45.225 --> 01:16:47.325
Right? There is no escaping.
993
01:16:49.110 --> 01:16:50.650
Sorry. I'm eating meat sticks.
994
01:16:52.870 --> 01:16:54.170
What a Bitcoiner move.
995
01:16:54.950 --> 01:16:56.410
There is no escaping,
996
01:16:57.005 --> 01:17:02.465
okay, doing your own research in Bitcoin if you're a true full Bitcoin citizen.
997
01:17:03.565 --> 01:17:05.800
There's no alternative to that. Every
998
01:17:06.180 --> 01:17:12.200
time the UX whining people go, but the UX needs to be better blah blah blah. It's true.
999
01:17:12.795 --> 01:17:19.455
It could be a lot better. It's never gonna be perfect because it's a rough consensus system that you shouldn't be trusting anybody,
1000
01:17:19.990 --> 01:17:22.090
and every time you make one step,
1001
01:17:22.950 --> 01:17:26.890
easier, it means you're probably giving trust to something
1002
01:17:27.565 --> 01:17:28.385
or someone
1003
01:17:29.165 --> 01:17:34.945
in that step. Right? So now you make it super easy, like, great, use Coinbase. Right?
1004
01:17:35.510 --> 01:17:42.970
Mhmm. Or even Robinhood or something like that. I mean, like, look at how many layers you are away from real Bitcoin. Right?
1005
01:17:43.430 --> 01:17:43.680
So,
1006
01:17:45.335 --> 01:17:46.875
we at least try
1007
01:17:47.815 --> 01:17:49.435
to expose gently
1008
01:17:49.815 --> 01:17:53.435
as much as we can of the real deal to the users
1009
01:17:54.110 --> 01:17:56.610
because we don't want them to be scammed
1010
01:17:57.710 --> 01:17:59.489
or to not be full citizens.
1011
01:18:02.034 --> 01:18:08.054
I I think that's very important, and I and I wish the UX people would sort of, like, internalize
1012
01:18:08.355 --> 01:18:15.440
that, that they have to push the users to the knowledge path. Right? They have to take the horse to the water.
1013
01:18:16.905 --> 01:18:22.925
Yeah. I I've definitely started to have this feeling, like, the the biggest solve to all these sort of decentralized
1014
01:18:23.290 --> 01:18:28.110
systems that seem very hard to get off the ground is is it's sort of it's it's an amount of literacy.
1015
01:18:29.770 --> 01:18:30.270
Bitcoin,
1016
01:18:31.130 --> 01:18:32.595
especially like, Bitcoin,
1017
01:18:33.055 --> 01:18:36.415
especially if I'm, like, actually writing software that is more,
1018
01:18:37.215 --> 01:18:40.995
like, I'm trying to, like, mess around with, like, actually writing a wallet.
1019
01:18:41.340 --> 01:18:42.080
There's just
1020
01:18:42.380 --> 01:18:47.660
I don't know. It seems a lot to learn. I'm very bad at remembering what bips mean.
1021
01:18:48.060 --> 01:18:53.445
I guess I just need to immerse myself more in it. It'll become very obvious to you. It's like
1022
01:18:55.025 --> 01:18:57.525
all these all these bips just become obvious.
1023
01:18:58.370 --> 01:19:02.230
I mean, and then there is the ones you forget. Right? Because there's all the consensus stuff.
1024
01:19:03.570 --> 01:19:08.935
Like, you know, there's, like, the flag bip and whatever bip. It's like forget about that stuff for wallets.
1025
01:19:10.515 --> 01:19:11.895
What I recommend actually,
1026
01:19:12.355 --> 01:19:12.755
go to,
1027
01:19:13.955 --> 01:19:14.455
James,
1028
01:19:15.395 --> 01:19:17.720
I always forget his last name. James
1029
01:19:18.660 --> 01:19:23.560
O'Brien? O'Byrne. O'Byrne. That's how yeah. The O'Byrne brothers. The O'Byrne brothers. Legends.
1030
01:19:23.940 --> 01:19:26.205
Yes. So James wrote,
1031
01:19:27.625 --> 01:19:28.764
what is it, code?
1032
01:19:32.400 --> 01:19:33.060
He he wrote
1033
01:19:33.600 --> 01:19:37.060
a a a CLI wallet. Right? So command line wallet,
1034
01:19:37.920 --> 01:19:39.460
to talk to his cold card.
1035
01:19:40.594 --> 01:19:43.175
What's nice though is Coldcore. Right? Coldcore.
1036
01:19:43.554 --> 01:19:45.815
That's it. And he used to be a core contributor.
1037
01:19:47.370 --> 01:19:50.350
What's really cool about that wallet is that it's bare.
1038
01:19:51.610 --> 01:19:58.565
So, if you're gonna if you go look at the code, you're not gonna get, like, all the noise from the UI stuff from anything else.
1039
01:19:58.865 --> 01:19:59.345
Mhmm.
1040
01:20:00.145 --> 01:20:02.085
And that'll give you, like, a nice perspective,
1041
01:20:03.105 --> 01:20:05.950
of, like, what it takes to write a wallet.
1042
01:20:07.610 --> 01:20:09.470
So, like, fantastic little project.
1043
01:20:10.250 --> 01:20:14.295
Okay. I saw him tweeting about how to actually look at the code. Definitely check
1044
01:20:15.635 --> 01:20:16.135
that
1045
01:20:17.475 --> 01:20:18.455
out. Yeah.
1046
01:20:19.315 --> 01:20:22.829
So, yeah, that's dips for you. That's rough consensus.
1047
01:20:23.610 --> 01:20:26.670
And what what what bip are have you been working on?
1048
01:20:27.530 --> 01:20:28.030
Oh,
1049
01:20:28.975 --> 01:20:32.335
no. It's it's dude, I do not I cannot take any,
1050
01:20:33.695 --> 01:20:34.195
any
1051
01:20:36.094 --> 01:20:38.675
any credit on that. It's like it's all Hugo.
1052
01:20:40.079 --> 01:20:43.139
So, it's a Bitcoin secure multisig
1053
01:20:43.679 --> 01:20:44.179
setup.
1054
01:20:45.520 --> 01:20:53.764
So so there there is a fundamental problem, right, in multisig, which is how do how do you create the script, the the quorum
1055
01:20:54.500 --> 01:20:56.360
for the signers without
1056
01:20:57.060 --> 01:20:57.560
trusting
1057
01:20:58.020 --> 01:20:58.680
the network
1058
01:21:00.100 --> 01:21:02.120
that you use to talk to the signers?
1059
01:21:03.855 --> 01:21:05.315
It's not a simple problem.
1060
01:21:06.495 --> 01:21:10.550
So with cold card between cold cards aside from the bug we had,
1061
01:21:11.429 --> 01:21:15.290
you can trust the setup because the cold card keeps,
1062
01:21:16.630 --> 01:21:18.809
keeps a bunch of meta information,
1063
01:21:19.110 --> 01:21:19.605
right,
1064
01:21:20.085 --> 01:21:22.825
about the signers so that he can't cheat
1065
01:21:23.445 --> 01:21:28.090
about who's the signer so that he can maybe get a griefing attack or something like that.
1066
01:21:30.170 --> 01:21:31.949
We we had a bug that was fixed,
1067
01:21:33.050 --> 01:21:37.790
that was not we were trusting the the, essentially, the the wallet ID,
1068
01:21:39.995 --> 01:21:45.535
but but that's like that doesn't matter anyways because most of the other wallets were not checking anything.
1069
01:21:46.235 --> 01:21:46.735
So
1070
01:21:48.020 --> 01:21:51.560
what this new BIP tries to do is create a standard
1071
01:21:52.180 --> 01:21:56.760
of how to create a a a multisig wallet between different vendors.
1072
01:21:57.284 --> 01:22:21.435
Right? And and what it does is actually just creates a session. Right? So, you you know, it just shares shares a token with each other, and then you create a section a session of each other and then you say like, you know, hey. I am this x pub and this ID and this blah blah blah, and I'm gonna be signer number 1 and then you pass that to the next one, and then the next one identifies itself, and then, you know, and then you do the quorum. Right? And you create your your your redeem script.
1073
01:22:22.860 --> 01:22:25.040
And and, and this one uses,
1074
01:22:26.140 --> 01:22:26.640
descriptors.
1075
01:22:27.740 --> 01:22:28.240
Descriptors
1076
01:22:28.700 --> 01:22:32.305
is essentially the new right way of of creating
1077
01:22:33.565 --> 01:22:34.065
wallets,
1078
01:22:35.165 --> 01:22:36.225
but that's a tangent.
1079
01:22:37.485 --> 01:22:44.170
Anyways, so so that's the idea of this new BIP. There is no number for it. It's just a proposal right now on the mailing list.
1080
01:22:46.070 --> 01:22:53.805
I gotta get on this mailing list. Wait. Can you so this session, is this something that you you're imagining this is happening over the Internet, or is this like like,
1081
01:22:54.345 --> 01:23:04.969
a file that you're moving from, like, harbor wall to harbor wall? It it it would work in both. Right? You can do sneaker net like cold card does with micro SD. You can do USB.
1082
01:23:05.315 --> 01:23:08.375
You can do over the network. Right? Because let's say that
1083
01:23:08.835 --> 01:23:14.375
you you want to do your cold card with your unchained capital account. Lots of users do that.
1084
01:23:15.060 --> 01:23:16.660
Right now, they're using some,
1085
01:23:17.940 --> 01:23:19.080
some very complex,
1086
01:23:20.900 --> 01:23:26.224
setup with, I forgot the name of the of the of the thing that they created,
1087
01:23:26.605 --> 01:23:27.105
Caravan.
1088
01:23:29.405 --> 01:23:41.560
But this thing simplifies and creates an actual standard. Right? And and remember, right, hardware wallets are very limited in memory and processing, so, like, all these things have to be taken into consideration when you're creating these protocols.
1089
01:23:42.115 --> 01:23:44.855
But so so so just first of all,
1090
01:23:46.595 --> 01:23:54.490
that conversation so far the conversation so far is everything I was dreamed I dreamed it was gonna be. So I appreciate you both for having me on the show and
1091
01:23:54.870 --> 01:23:56.170
and having this great conversation.
1092
01:23:57.030 --> 01:23:57.530
I
1093
01:23:58.645 --> 01:24:02.264
I I think the important thing here for the freaks, just to
1094
01:24:03.125 --> 01:24:05.705
to show where the issue is, the issue lies
1095
01:24:08.100 --> 01:24:12.920
with in multi in a multisig setup, if we need to verify what's going on,
1096
01:24:13.380 --> 01:24:16.200
the each signing device needs to know
1097
01:24:16.735 --> 01:24:22.675
what the other devices are. Each signing device needs to know everything that's going on. And in a single sig,
1098
01:24:23.215 --> 01:24:31.360
if you have a single sig cold card, for instance, obviously, that cold card knows exactly what the fuck's going on because it's the only device in in in
1099
01:24:31.900 --> 01:24:34.880
the signature scheme. It's a one of 1. But if you have multisig,
1100
01:24:35.565 --> 01:24:46.600
all these different devices need to communicate with each other and be able to tell each other what is going on in the bigger picture the bigger picture scheme of things. And with multisig, we see a lot of people pushing,
1101
01:24:47.380 --> 01:24:54.665
for good reason pushing for multi vendor, multisig because they wanna reduce trust in any specific vendor. They wanna reduce their trust in Rodolfo,
1102
01:24:55.125 --> 01:25:15.425
so they want to add other vendors to the mix. And if we don't have a standard, then communication between those devices becomes extremely difficult. Right? Can we make can we make this a little more explicit? Because I really do wanna follow this. So, like Okay. Let's So let's say we've got a, like, a 2 of 3 setup. Right? Like Okay. So back back away from that. Let's say you have you have 2 devices.
1103
01:25:15.885 --> 01:25:19.744
Mhmm. Okay? You have a ledger and a cold card. Mhmm. Okay?
1104
01:25:20.125 --> 01:25:22.219
You wanna create a multisig between them.
1105
01:25:23.159 --> 01:25:29.900
Yep. You're not even at a point to when you choose the the 2 or 3 or the m event. Right? You you have 2 separate devices,
1106
01:25:30.905 --> 01:25:35.565
2 different companies, and you wanna make a multisig between them. Right? Yeah. Let's say you choose
1107
01:25:35.945 --> 01:25:36.445
Spectre
1108
01:25:37.225 --> 01:25:38.605
to be your coordinator.
1109
01:25:40.760 --> 01:25:48.620
Okay? If you ask cold card plus cold card, you can make the 2 cold cards stock to each other because same vendor, we can create the specs
1110
01:25:49.555 --> 01:25:53.255
And, you know, vendors are gonna always have their own specs between
1111
01:25:53.555 --> 01:25:56.055
their own devices because it's easy. Right?
1112
01:25:56.440 --> 01:26:02.220
But my competitors are gonna probably not gonna follow my spec because they wanna sell more of their devices. Right?
1113
01:26:03.640 --> 01:26:04.140
So
1114
01:26:04.825 --> 01:26:05.965
we need a coordinator,
1115
01:26:06.345 --> 01:26:08.285
right, to talk between these wallets.
1116
01:26:08.825 --> 01:26:15.290
So well, it's designers. And that's not Spectres. I would have think of Specter could be the coordinator, like,
1117
01:26:16.150 --> 01:26:26.965
Specter and and kinda is right now, like, you can do multisig with Yes. With Specter. Right? So so Spectre desktop can be cold card can be a coordinator between cold cards or cold card,
1118
01:26:28.385 --> 01:26:30.565
respecting standard devices. Right?
1119
01:26:31.860 --> 01:26:35.960
Code cards are a little bit weird that way, but most hardware wallets cannot coordinate
1120
01:26:36.420 --> 01:26:38.040
multi signature quorums.
1121
01:26:38.465 --> 01:26:39.844
Right? They cannot create
1122
01:26:40.304 --> 01:26:41.844
a a a redeem script.
1123
01:26:43.105 --> 01:26:43.605
So
1124
01:26:44.065 --> 01:26:55.690
what happens is so you you you plug in your ledger and your cold card and and you make them, you know, say hi to to to Specter and and and then register their ex pubs. Right?
1125
01:26:56.735 --> 01:26:58.675
So they're they're extended public keys
1126
01:26:59.695 --> 01:27:03.795
so that Specter knows which keys to use to create the multisig
1127
01:27:04.560 --> 01:27:06.579
m of n quorum. Right?
1128
01:27:07.280 --> 01:27:09.060
Right. So so now the problem is
1129
01:27:10.239 --> 01:27:11.619
you need to trust
1130
01:27:12.685 --> 01:27:14.385
that the 2 devices
1131
01:27:14.764 --> 01:27:17.744
are saying who they are and the and the the coordinator
1132
01:27:18.525 --> 01:27:20.145
can has to trust
1133
01:27:20.739 --> 01:27:27.719
that is receiving the right information. Right? Because you could have because every time you now you're touching a computer, right, and the computer could have viruses.
1134
01:27:28.535 --> 01:27:31.355
So if there is a virus on a lecternum or a specter,
1135
01:27:32.135 --> 01:27:35.275
we could be telling specter the wrong information. It could be saying,
1136
01:27:35.650 --> 01:27:38.950
hey, this cold card is real and say the cold card is real.
1137
01:27:39.650 --> 01:27:48.295
And and then it says And Ben sneaks in one of his own x pubs and now Exactly. Spend your funds. Exactly. And says that, oh, this ledger is real too.
1138
01:27:48.675 --> 01:27:50.375
Wait. No. That's Ben's keys.
1139
01:27:51.155 --> 01:27:57.110
Right? We're watching you, Ben. Exactly. Right? And then he creates the redeem script with Ben Skis.
1140
01:27:59.489 --> 01:28:00.389
Right? Listen.
1141
01:28:00.929 --> 01:28:02.995
Again, the problem with with
1142
01:28:03.475 --> 01:28:08.295
all this shit show that, for example, happened today with the disclosure of a competitor,
1143
01:28:10.035 --> 01:28:12.130
is that there's a lot of FUD
1144
01:28:12.590 --> 01:28:13.090
around
1145
01:28:13.390 --> 01:28:15.969
very important topics. Right? Like,
1146
01:28:16.350 --> 01:28:18.770
yes, it is very important to get this right,
1147
01:28:19.105 --> 01:28:21.525
but no, there is no need for hysteria
1148
01:28:22.145 --> 01:28:24.965
because I have, dude, we have like
1149
01:28:25.744 --> 01:28:27.844
a lot of devices in the market,
1150
01:28:28.224 --> 01:28:31.050
and I have not seen a single,
1151
01:28:33.190 --> 01:28:33.690
evidence
1152
01:28:34.150 --> 01:28:34.650
of
1153
01:28:35.270 --> 01:28:38.010
a exploit of these in the wild, right?
1154
01:28:38.575 --> 01:28:40.835
These are not easy to do exploits,
1155
01:28:42.255 --> 01:28:46.435
but it but they are possible. Right? So that's why it's important for us to fix them,
1156
01:28:47.489 --> 01:28:51.590
So I I just, I guess, wanted to put a caveat in there so people need to chill.
1157
01:28:53.705 --> 01:28:58.685
Okay. So you so you so so your suggest the the southern this southern person
1158
01:28:59.065 --> 01:29:03.780
who worked on this bit is suggesting a method where a hardware wallet could create
1159
01:29:04.240 --> 01:29:05.540
the, like, the,
1160
01:29:06.640 --> 01:29:11.140
Yeah. So I'll get there. The script. Okay. Sorry for the tangent. Okay. Right. So so, essentially,
1161
01:29:11.685 --> 01:29:15.704
the issue is you need to know each cosigner, right? And you need to prove
1162
01:29:16.005 --> 01:29:16.824
each cosigner,
1163
01:29:18.324 --> 01:29:20.264
so that you don't have malicious addresses.
1164
01:29:21.190 --> 01:29:22.090
That's the problem.
1165
01:29:22.630 --> 01:29:24.810
So the way to solve this
1166
01:29:25.430 --> 01:29:28.970
is so that on the first setup, there's gonna be trust there,
1167
01:29:29.715 --> 01:29:31.975
You're gonna essentially register each device,
1168
01:29:32.995 --> 01:29:34.455
right, with the coordinator
1169
01:29:35.555 --> 01:29:36.330
and each other,
1170
01:29:36.890 --> 01:29:37.390
ideally.
1171
01:29:38.330 --> 01:29:52.094
Code card does that, but it doesn't necessarily have to be each everyone knowing. But at least the coordination device would tell the coordinator, here's my xpub. Exactly. But you would have been a session open to pass the xpub first.
1172
01:29:52.955 --> 01:29:56.410
Right? So before I send you the xpub, we have to exchange some secrets
1173
01:29:56.790 --> 01:29:57.850
and shake hands.
1174
01:29:58.390 --> 01:30:02.565
So we do a handshake, we have a session open, then I pass you my x pub.
1175
01:30:03.925 --> 01:30:07.545
And and that handshake session is to reduce
1176
01:30:08.324 --> 01:30:17.989
the how much you have to trust each device or Well, after the fact, yes. So so then so then it's a lot easier to prove addresses because you have a trusted x pub now between each other.
1177
01:30:20.665 --> 01:30:25.485
A trusted x pub between each other as in you have I I don't know what that means.
1178
01:30:25.849 --> 01:30:28.190
So so you trust each other's keys.
1179
01:30:28.570 --> 01:30:32.829
You so so you derive addresses from your xpub. Right? Mhmm.
1180
01:30:33.425 --> 01:30:36.885
So if you trust each other's xpubs, now you can trust the addresses.
1181
01:30:37.344 --> 01:30:41.525
Okay. Okay. That's all. So so, essentially, that's what this is. It's just a spec,
1182
01:30:41.985 --> 01:30:42.804
a a standard
1183
01:30:43.140 --> 01:30:43.880
for you
1184
01:30:44.340 --> 01:30:44.840
to
1185
01:30:45.140 --> 01:30:46.840
to trust the setup.
1186
01:30:49.220 --> 01:30:50.120
And and so
1187
01:30:50.715 --> 01:30:57.375
let's say we're doing this all with, like, SD cards. You had a bunch of or you had these 2 wallets and they each had micro SD
1188
01:30:58.150 --> 01:31:01.450
cards. So you would maybe export an XPub.
1189
01:31:01.910 --> 01:31:07.925
Oh, so so there is a mix realistically speaking, cold card is the only one of the the the SD card
1190
01:31:08.465 --> 01:31:10.165
coordination thing. Okay.
1191
01:31:10.625 --> 01:31:12.885
So and I don't think there's gonna be anything
1192
01:31:13.425 --> 01:31:13.925
soon.
1193
01:31:14.590 --> 01:31:22.610
So how would you coordinate without plugging into It's gonna be it's gonna be micro c for cold card or USB for cold card, and the other ones are gonna probably be USB.
1194
01:31:23.345 --> 01:31:25.065
Okay. Or Or QR.
1195
01:31:25.505 --> 01:31:30.165
Or QR. Yeah. Animated animated QR. Right? Because it'd be a large amount of data.
1196
01:31:32.210 --> 01:31:37.670
Not not for for not for the setup because it's the ex pub. It's not the full public key. Right?
1197
01:31:39.090 --> 01:31:44.545
So it's it's a lot less data. The the problem so QRs are fucked, completely boned
1198
01:31:44.925 --> 01:31:46.625
once you have large
1199
01:31:46.925 --> 01:31:49.265
transactions doing PSVT and multisig.
1200
01:31:49.739 --> 01:31:52.640
So to the to the to the freaks that are are watching,
1201
01:31:53.340 --> 01:31:55.280
they clearly know what an XPUB is.
1202
01:31:55.580 --> 01:31:58.800
To the freaks that are listening, the XPUB is your view key.
1203
01:31:59.285 --> 01:32:01.065
So it allows you to view transactions,
1204
01:32:02.165 --> 01:32:13.699
it allows you to view balances and, you know, create addresses and whatnot. So let's just But you can't spend it without your private key, which is your spend key. Exactly. But the XPUB is not
1205
01:32:14.000 --> 01:32:15.219
your public key.
1206
01:32:15.715 --> 01:32:19.975
The XPUB is like a short version of your public key.
1207
01:32:22.835 --> 01:32:24.295
The same way your XPUB
1208
01:32:25.070 --> 01:32:29.890
is the short version. Now you're just confused receiver. I know, but, hey. Listen. I have to put that out there.
1209
01:32:30.990 --> 01:32:42.665
I I think I don't think it was a view. I think it was like a, like, a public key factory. Like, this is my thing that I make public keys with. But that's fair too. Yeah. The the this is the thing. Right? Like, Bitcoin is PGP.
1210
01:32:43.760 --> 01:32:46.100
It's like public private key,
1211
01:32:46.880 --> 01:32:50.740
like, cryptography. Right? So, like, you have a private, you have a secret,
1212
01:32:51.185 --> 01:32:53.125
and then from the secret, you derive
1213
01:32:53.425 --> 01:32:53.925
your,
1214
01:32:55.025 --> 01:32:56.005
your identifier.
1215
01:32:56.705 --> 01:32:59.205
That's what the expub is. It's an identifier.
1216
01:32:59.905 --> 01:33:00.405
But
1217
01:33:00.960 --> 01:33:01.940
we got clever,
1218
01:33:02.560 --> 01:33:05.380
and we generate addresses from the identifier.
1219
01:33:12.795 --> 01:33:13.535
What one,
1220
01:33:14.395 --> 01:33:21.910
one other thing that has or some kinda surprised me about multisig, maybe I don't completely understand it, but part of how you're spending
1221
01:33:22.610 --> 01:33:25.750
when you're spending multisig, you're satisfying a script.
1222
01:33:26.375 --> 01:33:27.114
That's right.
1223
01:33:27.415 --> 01:33:28.235
And so
1224
01:33:28.855 --> 01:33:34.715
there's a there's an aspect of that you don't just need the, like, 2 of 3
1225
01:33:35.255 --> 01:33:41.870
signers to satisfy the script. You You need to have the script. You need to know what the script is, which is really That's right. Like,
1226
01:33:42.270 --> 01:33:42.770
it
1227
01:33:43.285 --> 01:33:47.865
kinda surprised me and as a concept, but, like, here's another thing that I really need to secure.
1228
01:33:48.405 --> 01:33:50.265
Obviously, if the script is a really
1229
01:33:50.840 --> 01:33:56.219
widely understood standard, then I could just refer to it by its maybe it's BIP or something. It's not.
1230
01:33:56.599 --> 01:34:03.545
It's not. So see, this is where so this is why I have a lot of hate for multisig even though I'm a multisig provider.
1231
01:34:05.525 --> 01:34:14.475
So the the problem is multisig is not ready for the average person, period. Anybody who says the contrary is fucking lying to themselves or is way too advanced and doesn't understand that people are just too dumb for it.
1232
01:34:24.540 --> 01:34:37.465
One of the hosted ones, but then, obviously, you're trusting them with your privacy. Yeah. Well, you're trusting them with your privacy. You're not fucked. I mean, I Yeah. Let's not be hyperbolic here, Rodolfo. No. That's fair. That's fair. And you know what? Kaza, to be fair,
1233
01:34:38.245 --> 01:34:38.745
has
1234
01:34:39.730 --> 01:34:40.230
documented
1235
01:34:40.770 --> 01:34:41.270
beautifully
1236
01:34:41.889 --> 01:34:44.310
their redeem script on walletsrecovery.org.
1237
01:34:45.889 --> 01:34:49.725
Well, so so a lot of these pain points are kind of solved. I mean,
1238
01:34:50.105 --> 01:34:51.725
I use solved loosely,
1239
01:34:53.945 --> 01:34:59.140
but if if if okay. So so if you're a freak, and and let's be honest, the freaks are more advanced
1240
01:34:59.520 --> 01:35:00.260
than 99%
1241
01:35:00.720 --> 01:35:05.700
of people on this planet. Like, this is why, like, I'm freaking out and I I you gotta remember
1242
01:35:06.155 --> 01:35:09.775
that most people don't realize what's going on right now, and that's even more scary.
1243
01:35:11.195 --> 01:35:15.935
But, back back to multisig, like if you're a freak and you're advanced and you're using multisig,
1244
01:35:16.940 --> 01:35:22.720
I think, like, a very actionable and I try and keep the show as actionable as possible. A a very actionable best practice
1245
01:35:23.180 --> 01:35:24.960
is to have a clean device,
1246
01:35:25.505 --> 01:35:27.045
a dedicated computer,
1247
01:35:27.905 --> 01:35:29.525
that's not connected to the Internet,
1248
01:35:30.385 --> 01:35:36.849
that that is running your, you know, has has your full wallet on there. I mean, not the private keys, but it has your full,
1249
01:35:38.130 --> 01:35:51.520
your full setup there. Right? With with everything ready to go. So so man confirm addresses on it and you can make sure that that everything is is is kosher. Right? K. Yeah. Let let me this is the the advice that I give to people in general about Bitcoin.
1250
01:35:52.300 --> 01:35:54.720
Go and buy a refurbished
1251
01:35:55.180 --> 01:35:57.120
old Mac laptop.
1252
01:35:58.095 --> 01:35:58.595
Okay?
1253
01:35:59.535 --> 01:36:00.035
So
1254
01:36:00.495 --> 01:36:05.395
aside from Linux being the original shitcoin, because FreeBSD is really the true OS,
1255
01:36:07.220 --> 01:36:09.800
Like the reality is FreeBSD and Linux,
1256
01:36:10.500 --> 01:36:16.905
for the average person who don't make their full time job maintaining wallets, it's gonna be a problem because
1257
01:36:17.764 --> 01:36:19.145
when they have packages
1258
01:36:19.684 --> 01:36:23.465
for wallets, they might run into issues later on, right, with backups.
1259
01:36:24.070 --> 01:36:28.010
So what I like about an old Mac is that
1260
01:36:28.630 --> 01:36:33.385
it it it's like it is a true free b s d sort of software,
1261
01:36:33.765 --> 01:36:39.545
but it's like it's got all the sort of, you know, user friendly bullshit on top. Right?
1262
01:36:39.925 --> 01:36:41.785
So, it's very easy
1263
01:36:42.730 --> 01:36:46.429
for that person to migrate Appleshit to Appleshit later if they need to,
1264
01:36:46.810 --> 01:36:48.670
and it's easy to back up.
1265
01:36:49.610 --> 01:36:51.390
So and it's secure enough.
1266
01:36:53.375 --> 01:36:55.955
It's actually probably more secure than most Linux distros.
1267
01:36:56.975 --> 01:37:00.275
As long as you as long as you trust Apple and the the US government.
1268
01:37:00.830 --> 01:37:11.645
Yeah. Sure. But the same as Linux. Just let's not even enter Linux problems here, but whatever. Mhmm. So my my point is is just I just like it because it's a reasonable compromise. Right?
1269
01:37:12.025 --> 01:37:14.365
Uh-huh. It's a it's a useful reasonable compromise.
1270
01:37:14.825 --> 01:37:15.325
So
1271
01:37:15.840 --> 01:37:21.460
you have a simple computer that just works. Right? That has reasonable drivers and all that shit.
1272
01:37:21.840 --> 01:37:23.455
So what you do
1273
01:37:23.835 --> 01:37:26.495
is keep a copy of the last
1274
01:37:27.435 --> 01:37:30.015
working version of the of the coordination
1275
01:37:30.395 --> 01:37:30.895
wallet.
1276
01:37:31.329 --> 01:37:34.230
Right. Either for multisig or single. Keep everything.
1277
01:37:34.610 --> 01:37:41.575
Yes. Just keep fucking every just have not use all those acts. I disagree. I disagree with Rodolfo on that. You're completely
1278
01:37:42.115 --> 01:37:55.150
oblivious to how the US government owns, like, Linux and and phones. I mean, look. They might own they might own your Linux install, but they definitely own your fucking OSX install. Like, that's Exactly. So just give up the pain of Linux
1279
01:37:56.395 --> 01:38:05.935
because you're owned anyways. Okay. But the point is you wanna save you wanna save as much information as possible. And the trade off there is is really is mostly a privacy trade off,
1280
01:38:14.995 --> 01:38:22.054
information that's important to save. There's one more step. No. There's one more problem. Right? If you're using a Windows machine, you could have a virus very easily
1281
01:38:22.435 --> 01:38:23.895
that will screw you
1282
01:38:24.200 --> 01:38:34.335
on your coordination wallet. Right? So you could have, like, an electron virus kind of right. 6102 an aneurysm over here, by the way, in the comments. I know. It's a lot of fun.
1283
01:38:36.074 --> 01:38:36.574
And
1284
01:38:37.195 --> 01:38:39.775
it it it listen. Hardware people appreciate Apple.
1285
01:38:40.750 --> 01:38:41.250
So,
1286
01:38:43.230 --> 01:38:46.530
so, anyways, my my point is just you have have a laptop
1287
01:38:47.070 --> 01:39:06.710
that that's your, say, your like, that's your Bitcoin machine. Right? And, ideally, that that Bitcoin machine does not really touch the Internet. You don't have to have your phone on it. None of that stuff. Right? Well, why a laptop? It doesn't need I mean, I think a desktop is better because it doesn't have a camera or a microphone or a Wi Fi or have to plug shit into it to use. It's like, I'm trying to be practical.
1288
01:39:07.415 --> 01:39:14.715
Goddamn it. How is this not touching the Internet if this is like I mean, let's say you're running speech on here. No. No. So,
1289
01:39:15.099 --> 01:39:22.800
it's a different machine. Yeah. So so have your node running on on some other machine you have around. If you don't have many machines,
1290
01:39:23.554 --> 01:39:26.855
it's just like, listen. So you prepare your transactions
1291
01:39:27.235 --> 01:39:28.295
on an unconnected
1292
01:39:28.675 --> 01:39:36.780
laptop and then you bring them over to a connected broadcast. This is for real money, people. This is not for fucking buying VPN service, okay, with Bitcoin.
1293
01:39:37.080 --> 01:39:40.220
It's for real money. Don't don't waste your time, effort,
1294
01:39:40.845 --> 01:39:41.825
and and money
1295
01:39:42.365 --> 01:39:42.865
on
1296
01:39:43.645 --> 01:39:50.145
buying cup of coffee with, like, a air gapped computer for your hardware wallets. Okay? Please
1297
01:39:50.830 --> 01:40:03.045
don't mix things. For that, like have a stupid fucking wallet on your phone that's single sig, okay, and that that you have a $100 worth of Bitcoin there and that's what you use to pay for stuff.
1298
01:40:03.824 --> 01:40:07.970
This is for your savings account that you don't touch all the time.
1299
01:40:08.450 --> 01:40:12.870
That's when you have your your your, like, your let's call it your Bitcoin laptop.
1300
01:40:13.490 --> 01:40:14.950
Right? That you have
1301
01:40:15.784 --> 01:40:16.925
your You get NextOS
1302
01:40:17.304 --> 01:40:18.685
on a PowerBook.
1303
01:40:19.065 --> 01:40:21.725
That's right. Yeah. Exactly. And then you also,
1304
01:40:22.580 --> 01:40:23.080
by
1305
01:40:23.380 --> 01:40:23.540
means to,
1306
01:40:25.060 --> 01:40:26.280
make your life shorter.
1307
01:40:27.940 --> 01:40:31.880
I can't say the never mind. It's not good for
1308
01:40:32.245 --> 01:40:36.105
the Internet these days to say things. It's like you cannot joke about suicide.
1309
01:40:41.060 --> 01:40:42.280
Yeah. No. You can't.
1310
01:40:43.140 --> 01:40:45.880
Serious. Especially in this and especially in this space,
1311
01:40:46.340 --> 01:40:46.840
please
1312
01:40:47.300 --> 01:40:52.265
please, freaks, do not keep more money in the dollar than you can afford to lose. Exactly.
1313
01:40:52.805 --> 01:40:56.745
Yeah. Anyways, so aside from my my terrible joke about,
1314
01:40:58.000 --> 01:41:02.060
you know, making bad technical decisions that end in in life ending situations,
1315
01:41:04.120 --> 01:41:12.455
seriously, so you have your your your Bitcoin laptop that doesn't touch the Internet, and this is really cool because you can experiment with different wallets.
1316
01:41:12.915 --> 01:41:19.980
You can do all sorts of shit, and then you're not as concerned about USB plugging your hardware wallets or none of that stuff.
1317
01:41:20.280 --> 01:41:23.500
Right? This is your Bitcoin playing machine for your savings.
1318
01:41:25.315 --> 01:41:31.975
And, you know, and then when you need to build transactions you can, you know, you can either build transactions on on this thing by importing
1319
01:41:33.110 --> 01:41:34.409
latest block data,
1320
01:41:35.110 --> 01:41:42.625
via snicker net, or maybe you plug into your local network, and you just and and there is nothing on this laptop running but,
1321
01:41:43.965 --> 01:41:49.970
a a phone node on it. Right? If you wanna just keep it simple by having just one thing, but you don't need,
1322
01:41:51.070 --> 01:41:51.570
more
1323
01:41:52.030 --> 01:41:54.290
than your only q x o information.
1324
01:41:55.310 --> 01:42:02.335
So you could just sort of catch up to the amount of, amount of blocks that sort of build your own transaction. That's all you need, really.
1325
01:42:03.915 --> 01:42:08.750
Yeah. So we have we have Rad Vladdy in the comments, and I I think he makes an interesting point.
1326
01:42:09.369 --> 01:42:11.070
He uses Sparrow and Spectre,
1327
01:42:11.610 --> 01:42:13.550
the same wallet on different machines.
1328
01:42:13.885 --> 01:42:18.625
Yeah. And, like, so so this is a perfect case. Like, as as things are getting,
1329
01:42:19.165 --> 01:42:20.625
as as you have more value,
1330
01:42:21.330 --> 01:42:22.550
that that you're securing,
1331
01:42:23.490 --> 01:42:25.830
this is a this is a great way to,
1332
01:42:27.410 --> 01:42:31.764
it's a it's a great way to reduce trust in any individual software, especially if you don't,
1333
01:42:32.304 --> 01:42:35.025
have the ability to read the code or verify the code,
1334
01:42:35.425 --> 01:42:47.385
because you can you can make sure that on both machines, you have 2 different software packages. They're both they're both interacting with the network through Bitcoin Core, and you could confirm that the receive addresses are the same before you send to them.
1335
01:42:47.945 --> 01:42:58.179
That's a beautiful one. Just to show, like, where we're at in terms of verifying receive addresses and how how important it is to make sure that the the address that you're sending to is an address that you control.
1336
01:42:59.280 --> 01:43:02.260
We're going above and beyond. The the the practicality
1337
01:43:02.640 --> 01:43:05.284
of of this type of attack, I mean,
1338
01:43:05.744 --> 01:43:17.820
the the real guys who are really vulnerable are the traders who are interacting on these websites and depositing Bitcoin into, like, a Coinbase or a Kraken or a Bitfinex, they have no way to verify those receive addresses.
1339
01:43:18.360 --> 01:43:23.099
Yep. I mean, technically, if they were doing it correct if they were doing it, you know,
1340
01:43:23.605 --> 01:43:27.385
as trust minimized as possible, those services would offer a PGP signed,
1341
01:43:28.325 --> 01:43:33.170
address. They don't do that. So really, we have we have 1,000,000,000 1,000,000,000
1342
01:43:34.190 --> 01:43:36.290
and and 1,000,000,000 of dollars with the Bitcoin
1343
01:43:36.670 --> 01:43:49.445
is being transacted with every day on receive addresses that aren't being verified, and there aren't any attacks. But it's still something that we need to obviously be concerned about if you're talking about your HODL stash that that that you want to last generations.
1344
01:43:50.130 --> 01:43:50.869
I've never
1345
01:43:51.170 --> 01:44:11.490
moved money onto Coinbase or something like that. Like, is it just on a website? You just copy and paste? Yeah. They just show you a particular code and an address. That that seriously. It's like people are, like, spending the day today making my life miserable with stupid PR spins on a bug that's like, you know, it's a real bug and, you know, you had a real fix.
1346
01:44:11.870 --> 01:44:16.690
But, like, while morons are fucking copying and pasting an address from a browser
1347
01:44:17.135 --> 01:44:19.395
to send real fucking money to.
1348
01:44:22.815 --> 01:44:27.620
The disparity, the the cognitive dissonance in this space is just infuriating,
1349
01:44:31.520 --> 01:44:33.780
and we haven't even got to tap root yet.
1350
01:44:37.414 --> 01:44:53.800
Wait. So what all this to say that this this this BIP still doesn't Wait. Wait. We're done. Mechanical multi state. It off? Let's cut this shit off. Right? What? No. No. No. No. Continue, dude. I I have, like, I've already I'm already, my kids are already in bed. No. No. I'm saying, should we cut off the giveaway?
1351
01:44:55.045 --> 01:44:55.545
Oh.
1352
01:44:56.885 --> 01:45:03.205
It's in 15 minutes. It's the price in 15 minutes. Alright. You guys have, 2 minutes. So you have until,
1353
01:45:04.630 --> 01:45:05.130
48
1354
01:45:06.070 --> 01:45:07.050
on the clock.
1355
01:45:07.750 --> 01:45:10.970
Whatever is your time, 48 on the clock to give,
1356
01:45:11.350 --> 01:45:12.250
a price,
1357
01:45:12.555 --> 01:45:15.535
and then we're gonna and then we're gonna, check.
1358
01:45:16.075 --> 01:45:20.895
And then maybe we should give away another cold card to have someone verify what their what's going to be.
1359
01:45:21.195 --> 01:45:25.760
I don't wanna go back. We'll we'll figure it out. Yeah. I'm I'm totally game for that.
1360
01:45:26.060 --> 01:45:36.405
I'm Sean Sean Stacken is asking in the comments what the giveaway is. The giveaway is if you get it, the price on the top of the the price the price sticker on the top, which is Coinbase, Coinbase Pro,
1361
01:45:37.105 --> 01:45:39.445
the evil empire, the the price
1362
01:45:39.810 --> 01:45:41.030
in 14 minutes,
1363
01:45:41.410 --> 01:45:43.350
you know, when the the new hour calls,
1364
01:45:43.810 --> 01:45:49.175
the closest to that is gonna get a free cold card. And if you're within a dollar, you get a free Block Lock Mini.
1365
01:45:50.855 --> 01:45:58.875
And, Rodolfo is gonna cut it off whenever he deems fit, and I apparently, that's in under 2 minutes. Yeah. Hang on. I'm just gonna buy us I'm just gonna put in a sell order.
1366
01:46:00.570 --> 01:46:02.909
We've officially pumped the price. That's right.
1367
01:46:03.530 --> 01:46:05.949
The scam is over. We've fucking done it.
1368
01:46:08.525 --> 01:46:10.305
Where are the hedge funds now?
1369
01:46:10.685 --> 01:46:14.450
That's what people don't realize. They think we're just, like, you know, resting
1370
01:46:23.725 --> 01:46:31.090
astronomically negligible compared to where we're going. It's, like, not even fucking funny. I I'm not even excited anymore about this kind of price.
1371
01:46:32.610 --> 01:46:35.429
This is like I don't even get a morning stiffy on this.
1372
01:46:38.130 --> 01:46:38.790
I mean,
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:35:03 PM
Duration: 15184.117
Channels: 1
1
00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:32.004
2
00:00:32.625 --> 00:00:34.405
combined in, like, the last
3
00:00:34.739 --> 00:00:48.875
6 months, and it's all based on hopium. And I don't mean to hate on all of this. All these people who are making a ton of money on both of these things, just understand that there's gotta be some sort of gravity that takes hold at some point. And the 2 of them combined
4
00:00:49.255 --> 00:01:07.065
make for, I think, a really difficult situation if they both start going down together. And the ripple effects that we will see across currency markets, financial markets, and the such could be really great. No one is talking about it right now. There are no more naysayers in Bitcoin. So I would just say to you, have at it at 45,000
5
00:01:07.685 --> 00:01:09.930
because you've taken out everybody
6
00:01:10.230 --> 00:01:13.210
7
00:01:13.830 --> 00:01:14.730
as we speak.
8
00:01:54.075 --> 00:01:57.935
9
00:01:59.050 --> 00:02:00.350
That was Dan Nathan
10
00:02:00.650 --> 00:02:01.390
on CNBC.
11
00:02:02.090 --> 00:02:05.390
I guess he's the founder of some company called Risk Reversal
12
00:02:06.010 --> 00:02:06.510
Advisors,
13
00:02:08.235 --> 00:02:10.975
in absolute denial over what has happened this week.
14
00:02:11.275 --> 00:02:17.535
It appears that there's a whole lot of a lot of salty people that are in absolute denial right now, including
15
00:02:18.300 --> 00:02:19.840
much of financial media.
16
00:02:20.700 --> 00:02:21.599
It's absolutely
17
00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:23.599
insane to see play out.
18
00:02:23.980 --> 00:02:25.519
This is Citadel Dispatch
19
00:02:25.819 --> 00:02:26.799
episode 8.
20
00:02:27.245 --> 00:02:29.025
I'm your host, Matt O'Dell,
21
00:02:30.285 --> 00:02:31.425
the live show
22
00:02:32.125 --> 00:02:33.985
about Bitcoin distributed systems,
23
00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:36.300
open source, and privacy.
24
00:02:36.600 --> 00:02:38.700
Thank you for joining us for another week.
25
00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:41.420
We're gonna have a really fun Bitcoin Tuesday.
26
00:02:41.985 --> 00:02:43.364
I got my good friends,
27
00:02:44.064 --> 00:02:52.720
future Paul and NVK here to join us. NVK was with us on the first episode. You may know him as the cofounder of Koincite.
28
00:02:54.060 --> 00:02:57.360
Me and Paul have become close friends over the last year.
29
00:02:59.004 --> 00:03:03.504
Probably most famous for being a cofounder of The Verge, and he was on The Verge cast for a long time.
30
00:03:04.045 --> 00:03:06.065
One of my favorite non Bitcoin shows.
31
00:03:06.605 --> 00:03:07.825
So what's up, guys?
32
00:03:08.620 --> 00:03:10.080
How are you feeling over there?
33
00:03:10.860 --> 00:03:12.640
34
00:03:13.020 --> 00:03:18.160
35
00:03:18.525 --> 00:03:19.025
XRP?
36
00:03:19.725 --> 00:03:23.505
37
00:03:25.085 --> 00:03:27.025
38
00:03:29.040 --> 00:03:39.845
39
00:03:40.224 --> 00:03:45.605
know? Like, a one k all time high is not that big of a deal. So, I mean, let's talk about that for a second. I mean,
40
00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:48.099
41
00:03:48.799 --> 00:03:49.700
daily candle.
42
00:03:52.239 --> 00:03:54.349
Ew. It's a good idea. In in March
43
00:03:54.805 --> 00:03:57.065
in March, the price was, like, $37100.
44
00:03:57.845 --> 00:03:58.745
Right? So,
45
00:04:00.084 --> 00:04:05.500
I I feel like people do not really realize the gravity of what the fuck is going on right now.
46
00:04:07.239 --> 00:04:07.720
I've
47
00:04:08.040 --> 00:04:16.955
48
00:04:17.335 --> 00:04:17.835
Like
49
00:04:18.135 --> 00:04:23.240
the amount of like private messages I've been getting from people that work at
50
00:04:23.940 --> 00:04:25.320
at, like, big organizations
51
00:04:25.860 --> 00:04:27.640
and they're all looking into it.
52
00:04:29.794 --> 00:04:31.414
I don't think people comprehend
53
00:04:31.715 --> 00:04:35.254
the amount of money that's coming. It's like retail
54
00:04:35.794 --> 00:04:43.720
essentially just became irrelevant. Right? Like, it it doesn't matter how much coins retail buy now. They they won't make any difference in the price anymore.
55
00:04:44.100 --> 00:04:46.755
That that's how much money is coming in now.
56
00:04:47.955 --> 00:04:54.695
57
00:04:55.110 --> 00:04:59.610
58
00:05:00.390 --> 00:05:01.130
that Tesla
59
00:05:01.670 --> 00:05:03.450
was buying something like 800,000,000
60
00:05:03.925 --> 00:05:04.825
dollars worth of Bitcoin.
61
00:05:06.405 --> 00:05:08.905
You know, it was not taking serious. Right?
62
00:05:10.725 --> 00:05:15.130
But, hey. You know? It turned out that they did. But but, again, I I don't know.
63
00:05:15.510 --> 00:05:19.050
I've researched the info on Tesla. There is no info.
64
00:05:19.590 --> 00:05:22.330
So, for for for all I know,
65
00:05:22.935 --> 00:05:27.355
they bought something like GBTC or they bought a position on somebody else's
66
00:05:27.975 --> 00:05:28.475
stash,
67
00:05:28.855 --> 00:05:31.435
and that's why they didn't release any information. Right?
68
00:05:32.340 --> 00:05:33.400
So it's like it's $1,000,000,000
69
00:05:33.940 --> 00:05:34.440
of
70
00:05:35.060 --> 00:05:36.120
of news.
71
00:05:37.940 --> 00:05:39.479
There is there is no BTC
72
00:05:40.205 --> 00:05:44.865
so far to be accounted for. I mean, there could be and they don't wanna talk about it,
73
00:05:45.325 --> 00:05:48.305
but so far there is no info. So I can't list them because
74
00:05:49.270 --> 00:05:51.610
if it is GBTC, it would be double counted.
75
00:05:52.230 --> 00:05:55.050
76
00:05:56.875 --> 00:05:57.275
in,
77
00:05:57.675 --> 00:05:59.595
Rodolfo's free time when he's not,
78
00:06:00.395 --> 00:06:07.889
you know, running, the leading hardware wallet manufacturer or shitposting on Twitter. He's also running a website called bitcointreasuries.org,
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00:06:09.629 --> 00:06:13.889
that lists how much Bitcoin these publicly traded companies are holding because,
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per SEC filings, they have to report how much they have, I believe.
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I think this filing, maybe they didn't have to. Right? It's, like, 10 k or something, and they're going to have to at some point in the future.
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see,
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you would be,
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again, if their if their if their strategy
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was to to essentially
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take,
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take on micro strategy or sort of, like, beyond the news for Bitcoin holding,
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they would have just used the
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this the because really, you you only get the PR cycle in a large scale for these companies, like, in the first one. Right?
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So it would have been in their interest to do that. I think they didn't because
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it would have been a bit of a flop when they would say that's just a stake on somebody else's Huddl.
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I just
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I mean, before I go any further, before I forget, I just wanted to say about Dan Nathan. I mean, that clip that that we played for you in the beginning of this of this episode, the show,
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I mean, he literally he was scared. It was like he's like, companies are just gonna switch to holding Bitcoin.
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Why would they hold the US dollar? And that's just amazing to me. It's like, even the haters this is one of the things I really always loved about,
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our favorite congressman,
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Brad Sherman. Is, like, even the haters realize that Bitcoin is designed
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to just eat the world, and the only way they can fathom stopping it is if if they basically ban people's ability to use it. Like, try and they're gonna actively try and stop it. Otherwise,
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why would you ever hold the US dollar on your balance sheet? That's ridiculous. The thing is just designed to dump forever.
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of the Fiat shitcoins. Right?
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What? The US dollar? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the least worst Fiat shitcoin. I mean, at least you guys are not stuck with Canadian Bezos like I am.
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Like, all we make is this dollar that has
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some level of,
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price stability.
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And it and it's just it's just the bottom is falling out, and
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If I if I I'm Canadian, and I hold USD.
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So so, like,
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I mean How do you how do you hold USD? Oh, in Canada, we can have USD denominated bank accounts. So I have both CAD and USD.
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you know, you just you you log in to your account and and you can deposit, like, it's actually a USD account. It's not like it's like they they hold USDs. I mean, Canadian dollar is, like, essentially a basket of USD
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plus a few other
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stupid things.
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There isn't much more to it at the end of the day. So Canadian Central Banks holds a fuck ton of USD.
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So it's not too hard for them to make
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use of the denominated,
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because,
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see, Canada has a fuck that on natural resources and a bunch of other shit that if they got their shit together,
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they could pump. Right? So much so that, say,
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about 20 years ago, it was 1 to 1. Right? The USD.
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So
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the the the issue here is
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that they don't, and they wanna play the printing game too. But now the printing you can't do printing on top of printing. Right? It's kinda like doing averages on top of averages. You know you don't do that.
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So,
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so now we're playing a game that we can't win anymore in Canada. And,
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I mean, you have you have to buy to pay taxes. Right? I mean, yeah. You hold the minimum. You hold the bare minimum. Right?
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But also the the banks bone you when you try to exchange, right, between the so,
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you know, yes. You can do if you do a little large volume of USD, you can you can have a proper effects account. Right? Even if your own, like, version of it. Even talking about that. Right? Like, who
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the there's there's this domino effect that's happening.
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And I think even,
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you know, I I I'm overwhelmed with this this feeling that I feel like everything that needs to be said has been said.
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Like, I don't like, now we just watch it play out. We just watch everything play out like we thought it was gonna fucking play out.
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And
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in some ways, it's happening
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at the speed that I expected, but in some ways, it's
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blowing, you know, blowing it away. Like, I if
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I think Elon has a bag. I thought Elon had a bag. Right? But for for Tesla to come out of the gun so quickly with such a large purchase,
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1 and a half $1,000,000,000
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they put into Bitcoin,
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is
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just I I he can I was completely caught caught off guard? I was completely caught off guard, and I feel like I thought they were gonna be one of the later companies. I thought they were gonna do it, but I thought there's gonna be a bunch of smaller companies that were a little bit more nimble,
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you know, stuff like MicroStrategy where you have a CEO who has a lot of control,
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and I thought the the bigger companies would happen later. But now we just, like, jumped the gun,
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and it's, like, you hear rumors and stuff. Is Apple gonna do it next? Is Oracle gonna do it next? And it's just, like, are these guy there's there's, like, 2 sets of boardrooms
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in America right now, globally. Right? There's the boardroom who's just, like, completely in denial that's, like, this is Beanie Babies,
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and then there's the boardrooms that are just, like, scrambling. They're just scrambling to get as much Bitcoin as they possibly can as soon as they fucking can.
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And we're just gonna start seeing, like, $10,000
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daily candles, like, that's fucking crazy.
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things get more interesting.
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And then, I I mean, like,
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all the money's coming.
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Right? And half of the world out there have no clue what's going on in the world.
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So the the way I see it is things really get interesting once we start, like, getting to half or
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all the market cap of gold.
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That that's that's when shit really hits the fan.
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just commented,
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through through our, Twitch account, Citadel Dispatch on Twitch.
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Welcome. I think more people should use the Twitch stream because Twitch doesn't,
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fuck me on my outro outro music. So,
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consider it as an alternative to YouTube if you're currently using YouTube.
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I would I would love if more of the audience started using Twitch, even though it's still owned by one of the evil empires.
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level up to do once, like, Apple or, like, one, like, the the FAANG stocks or whatever. Oh, for sure. Once they get into it, then it's just like it's it becomes, like, the boring thing to do. So was that a pun?
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No. I mean, it's pretty he's the best richest man in the world ever, you know. He's he's got like a professional troll. Like someone said, what I thought was, like, a pretty decent take,
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was,
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was, like, if if Elon there was nothing Elon could do to piss off the Elon haters
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more
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than buying Bitcoin.
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And and, like, Bitcoin is what? 7% of the gold supply? So the gold market cap.
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You know, we we only have, like, essentially,
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what is it? 13 x to go? 13 x to go. That's it.
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We we own them.
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So so
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so Rodolfo's been been around Bitcoin for a bit now,
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as have I.
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Paul is is a relatively new coiner compared to us.
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This is its first real, you know, bull cycle,
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after being in a bear.
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And I'm curious, like, where where's your head at right now, Paul? Like, what what is your when you woke up in the morning, like like, what were you thinking?
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I I like I look at the price like
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fuck. I used to look at the price a lot more when it was down.
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And
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up, it's like it's like a solved problem. You know? It's like, well, they won, so I don't need to, like, it I don't need to worry in my head about it because
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Bitcoin
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won. You know? That's how I feel about it right now. It it it does feel novel. I mean, people people
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came out of the woodwork
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talking to me
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after, like, the all time high. Because, like, I yeah. I've been a bit into Bitcoin ever since it was, like, just right after the 2017 run up.
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So I was I've been wrong about Bitcoin in a sense for this whole time because I'd never hit the all time high. And so after it hit the all time high, people are like, oh, hey. But I don't even know how to feel. I I
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it's like I it's it's it's affirming, but,
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it doesn't the the number actually doesn't help me at all, if that makes sense. I don't know I don't know why, But it doesn't do anything for me, I guess, because it's like, it's not,
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it's not my money to spend
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until,
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you know,
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50 years from now or, you know,
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until until hyperbitcoinization,
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basically. I don't think of it as my money. So all the numbers in between are just kind of like a a narrative I get to watch, but they don't they don't have a lot of impact on my daily life. What about the FOMO, Paul? You you just experienced
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I know it sounds insane,
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but let me just explain this concept that humanity has had for most of it up until the MMT people came about.
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So
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somebody goes and works, does something. Right? It receives some money for
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it or trades. Right? What they do is they go and they put it under their mattress.
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And then when they get old or they need to buy a house or somebody gets sick, they go and they take some of it and they use it.
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And ideally
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whatever is under the mattress is worth more
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by the time they use it than when they acquired it.
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It's incredible. It's called savings technology.
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you all those time slices in between when you put it under your mattress and when you spend it,
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you could pay as much or as little attention
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to it as you want to, but it doesn't really change that much. That that's the thing. Right? That Bitcoin changed everything because,
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in the last, say, 15 50 to a 100 years, right, like,
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if you wanted to to have any reasonable appreciation
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on your savings, you had to understand investing.
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Right?
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And if you are a retail investor, you're a sucker.
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Right? You barely make
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against real inflation or asset inflation. Right? Sure. You know, there's the bullshit ship,
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CPI sort of number. That doesn't really exist.
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So this guy is so you go to your banker or whatever and you say, hey. You know, like, you know, they'll put your your money on a mutual fund or something and then hopefully you beat inflation.
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Right?
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So what what you do is you go and you read. You read all the stupid books on how to invest. Right? And then you you essentially stock pick,
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and you have a few and and, you know, like, some people do okay, some people get wrecked.
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And and this has been the concept of savings now for for a good 20, 30 years.
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It's insanity.
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You're supposed to just receive the money, put it in an account.
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Right? And then don't look at it. You're not supposed to understand. You're not you're supposed to focus on, like, I don't know, you're a watchmaker. Go make watches. Right? Not don't learn about investing.
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and I guess part of the reason I'm overwhelmed is because it feels like the 2017
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level of bad takes and shitcoiners
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and charlatans and shit have just amplified even more,
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since 2017.
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But there were so many bad takes about how, like, DeFi fixes that and and Ethereum DeFi in quotes.
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And that's not the that that you're you're thinking in the wrong in the wrong paradigm. Right? Like, what fixes it is having a good money that you can hold that increases in purchasing power over time so you don't have to gamble on this bullshit casino.
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suckers. Right? Like, I mean, seriously, like, smart people that I know that are into this stuff make a fucking killer.
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When there is smart people making a fucking killer, it means that there is another end of a bunch of suckers losing a fucking much.
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It's it's amazing to me that people don't see that.
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Okay. So With Bitcoin, like, nobody's losing on the Bitcoin trade here. Right? Like, you're buying, you're holding. It's not like there is some other person who's like, you're the fish. No. Like, it's just everybody's winning here.
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$1,500,000,000
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of of Bitcoin, and we know that's smart.
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But also,
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you know, I follow a lot of
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Bitcoiners that I really respect, and none of them shell Dogecoin.
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So, like, there is something that's really either,
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dumb or obviously it's trolling
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or,
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nefarious
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or I don't know what. But the the the Dogecoin
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Dogecoin shill is,
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it makes him look stupid to me a little bit. You know? He was he was fucking with the SEC,
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I mean, one of my favorite memes is, you know, such this much wow kinda thing. Right? Mhmm. Like,
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it's like it is fun.
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You know, and and and if you're, like, a billionaire
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putting trying to take people to Mars and and making a bunch of other stuff, like taking money from government to to, like, make cars.
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I mean, what else you're gonna do with your day? You're gonna shitpost. Right? Like and and shitposting
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with, like,
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a coin, a shitcoin that has a dog
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as the face of it. It's, like,
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you know, handcuffed by the SEC a bit over over earlier statements on Twitter, right, because of securities violations. So the fact that he he and I I I said this as a bullish case for Bitcoin in general just because Bitcoin's not a security, these guys are gonna start realizing they can pump it themselves. You know, he changed his bio and it it pumped it pumped $7,000.
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even though that it you know, securities laws are ridiculous, like, that's just a ridiculous concept. But for whatever reason, Dogecoin doesn't fall under them.
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So he's able to do that without,
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specifically
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without
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he if he talked about Bitcoin too much, it could have been
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a securities violation in that Bitcoin is not a security, but Tesla is, and and he hadn't disclosed yet that Tesla was purchasing Bitcoin.
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And then the other question so so the most important thing is he can fuck himself for the Doge shit. It was probably it's mostly seems like a troll, but he can fuck himself. No one should buy Doge. A lot of
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it's it's it's not a threat to Bitcoin, but it's a threat to to retail that that gets burned along the way, buys the top.
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the Litecoin guy, like Well, Charlie Lee can go fuck himself. Like, ordering what was there's a video of him, like, ordering some food from, like, somebody working behind the counter who bought who bought Litecoin. You know? Oh, that other guy, Charlie Lee. Yeah.
299
00:23:40.610 --> 00:23:53.255
300
00:23:53.715 --> 00:23:55.255
sort of protection on it.
301
00:23:55.715 --> 00:23:57.095
It was not a pre mine.
302
00:23:58.370 --> 00:24:00.470
You know, like, he helped to the Segwit
303
00:24:01.090 --> 00:24:15.410
stuff because he was able to prove that, you know, Segwit is not broken. So, you know, it it is a shitcoin. It has no purpose now. Right? But it is different. Right? It's not like Ethereum, like, used to have essentially bake sales in Toronto,
304
00:24:16.110 --> 00:24:17.570
where they would do these events
305
00:24:18.190 --> 00:24:20.770
and try to sell like, it was exactly time share.
306
00:24:21.390 --> 00:24:26.205
They would try to to deal with the presentation, and they'll say how they are changing the world.
307
00:24:26.905 --> 00:24:28.365
And then they will say, hey.
308
00:24:29.465 --> 00:24:35.880
Buy some Ethereum. Give me your Bitcoin. Right? And they raised they raised, I don't know how much for it, like, 30 or $60,000,000
309
00:24:36.420 --> 00:24:38.280
or something at that time in Bitcoin.
310
00:24:40.045 --> 00:24:40.545
And
311
00:24:41.245 --> 00:24:45.184
and everybody who got founder shares of Ethereum got, like, ridiculously
312
00:24:45.485 --> 00:24:45.985
rich,
313
00:24:47.085 --> 00:24:49.940
with those, and and they dumped it on retail.
314
00:24:52.080 --> 00:24:52.580
So,
315
00:24:53.120 --> 00:25:04.225
so yeah. You know, it's a pre mine and all that stuff. So I I think there is there is a difference there. What I think and I think it's worth sort of bringing that out that that up. Like, there's it's like a it's a premise criminal.
316
00:25:04.685 --> 00:25:09.740
317
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:18.465
He pumped the shit out of it on Twitter on the expectation that he was gonna get it listed. He got it listed. He continued to pump it and then sold the top
318
00:25:19.725 --> 00:25:23.345
and, you know, and and and and knew what he was doing the whole fucking time.
319
00:25:24.510 --> 00:25:35.375
I'll I'll give Elon a little bit of a break in that I don't think anyone seriously believes that he profited off of the Doge pump Doge pump and dump. Like, I don't think he actually bought any Doge and sold any Doge.
320
00:25:35.995 --> 00:25:46.159
What is it like? What's the market cap of Doge right now? And and the the really fucked up part about the Doge thing is is something similar to what we saw with IOTA in the last cycle is that the chain is so dysfunctional
321
00:25:46.539 --> 00:25:48.640
that it leads to these pumps because
322
00:25:49.179 --> 00:25:49.679
because
323
00:25:50.059 --> 00:25:55.595
you can't actually like, if you're holding self custody, it's really hard to send to an exchange because the chain isn't working.
324
00:25:56.215 --> 00:26:00.155
And and what we see is we see a lot of these people that are trading these shitcoins,
325
00:26:01.090 --> 00:26:06.390
in these dramatic pumps. They never withdraw, so they don't even know that the that the chain isn't working,
326
00:26:07.010 --> 00:26:17.965
which is why I I always ask I behoove people to to if you're going to gamble on these shitcoins, I want you to be a proper shitcorner. I want you to withdraw and secure your keys and and use your own note.
327
00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:21.700
328
00:26:22.320 --> 00:26:23.620
market cap now. Dang.
329
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:25.380
I thought it was, like, $9,000,000.
330
00:26:26.175 --> 00:26:26.995
331
00:26:27.295 --> 00:26:36.110
like, it's in the top 10 now. And it's fucking trade on Robinhood. And the one good thing about it, I'll tell you the the best part about it is that Jackson Palmer, the founder of Dogecoin,
332
00:26:37.050 --> 00:26:40.990
created Doge because he hated Bitcoin Yeah. And he hates money so much,
333
00:26:41.770 --> 00:26:42.910
that he actually
334
00:26:43.265 --> 00:26:47.745
divested all of his own he sold all of his Dogecoin and rage quit Dogecoin,
335
00:26:49.505 --> 00:27:02.105
and it just keeps pumping. So the fact it's the own it's the one of the only coins that the founder hasn't made money and is actively salty about it. Like, every time it pumps, like, this guy wakes up in the morning, he's like, wow. You know, I made an even worse
336
00:27:02.485 --> 00:27:06.665
a a worse thing that's that's hurting retail than than ever Bitcoin was.
337
00:27:09.309 --> 00:27:19.395
338
00:27:20.095 --> 00:27:22.915
I think this is was clearly demonstrated
339
00:27:23.295 --> 00:27:23.955
in the
340
00:27:25.649 --> 00:27:26.149
Bitcoin
341
00:27:26.450 --> 00:27:26.950
astronomy.
342
00:27:27.649 --> 00:27:30.309
Well, do you guys remember this? This is in 2019
343
00:27:30.929 --> 00:27:39.545
by This is the roof of unchained capital. Right? Yeah. On unchained capital. Well, basically, he's got this first law of Bitcoin astronomy,
344
00:27:40.120 --> 00:27:41.900
the law of hash horizons.
345
00:27:43.080 --> 00:27:54.465
Given constant hash rate as a miner moves away from the center of hash of a blockchain, the number of blocks won by that miner statistically trends to 0. So when Elon goes to Mars,
346
00:27:54.960 --> 00:28:08.805
he's obviously gonna just have way less energy production there than we have on Earth. So he's not gonna be competitive, hash rate wise anyways. He doesn't want to be the opposite. No. No. It's the opposite. So so Mars actually has, like, low like, almost no atmosphere
347
00:28:09.185 --> 00:28:13.690
348
00:28:14.550 --> 00:28:16.650
power out of solar there. So,
349
00:28:17.510 --> 00:28:18.010
theoretically,
350
00:28:18.390 --> 00:28:25.875
you could, like, make a ton of power there, but let me just put it out there. This is all just, like, you know, intellectual masturbation.
351
00:28:28.050 --> 00:28:31.510
The key here is that by then, we're gonna probably have,
352
00:28:31.970 --> 00:28:33.890
like, small power reactor,
353
00:28:34.290 --> 00:28:37.575
nuclear reactors that they would be way more efficient than solar anyways.
354
00:28:38.035 --> 00:28:40.375
So, so it's kind of like a wash maybe.
355
00:28:41.395 --> 00:28:43.690
356
00:28:44.570 --> 00:28:50.509
if they could easily use, like, lightning or something. No. So so it's tricky. Right? Because so
357
00:28:50.889 --> 00:28:56.125
358
00:28:56.585 --> 00:28:57.085
So
359
00:28:58.025 --> 00:29:00.045
you you you you can't broadcast
360
00:29:00.425 --> 00:29:01.885
a block fast enough
361
00:29:02.230 --> 00:29:11.215
to the other planet. So whichever planet has the longest chain and the and the and the long and the the most amount of hash power essentially becomes the main chain.
362
00:29:12.735 --> 00:29:18.914
It's gonna be and and it's very easy to diverge, but somebody brought up a good, good idea about you can have a side chain.
363
00:29:19.570 --> 00:29:20.530
You can have a mine
364
00:29:21.890 --> 00:29:29.155
a a a a Mars side chain and find consensus that way. 62 brought that up. It was a heat then there you go. Also also
365
00:29:29.535 --> 00:29:33.715
366
00:29:34.095 --> 00:29:36.355
367
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:48.245
368
00:29:48.865 --> 00:29:52.885
and, you know, we don't need to we don't need to solve it for them right now.
369
00:29:53.425 --> 00:29:55.780
I just to bring it back here, I mean,
370
00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:56.700
do
371
00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:03.380
do are we all in consensus that Elon front ran his own company and has a has his own personal stash of Bitcoin?
372
00:30:05.655 --> 00:30:15.880
Yeah. I mean, I dude, they have had a Bitcoin ATM in their factory there for Well, it's not a real it's a fake ATM. Really? It's so Liberty x Liberty x,
373
00:30:16.840 --> 00:30:24.725
made it so that any ATM provider, like, traditional ATM provider can also add a Bitcoin option to their regular ATM. So it's one of those.
374
00:30:25.345 --> 00:30:29.845
So there was, like, a regular third party ATM provider in his in his,
375
00:30:31.040 --> 00:30:35.380
super factory or gigafactory, whatever he calls it, and then and then that that
376
00:30:35.840 --> 00:30:36.340
operator
377
00:30:36.800 --> 00:30:42.405
378
00:30:43.025 --> 00:30:43.525
technically
379
00:30:44.145 --> 00:30:44.645
like,
380
00:30:44.945 --> 00:30:50.260
a technical guy who's sort of, like, more on the libertarian side out there who doesn't have Bitcoin
381
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:52.340
out of these sort of, like,
382
00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:54.260
big time people.
383
00:30:56.080 --> 00:31:15.645
I'd be very surprised if they don't have some personal stash. So, I mean, all these guys are gonna front run their own companies. Oh, yeah. I mean, but these guys don't need money. Right? Like, they're doing probably just for the shits and giggles. No. They like like like being rich has ever stopped a rich person from wanting to accumulate more money. But it's it's different though. Like,
384
00:31:18.445 --> 00:31:26.570
I I can't imagine, like, Elon waking up in the morning and looking at his Bitcoin huddle and saying, hey. I just made an extra 20%
385
00:31:26.870 --> 00:31:28.650
on my on my stash,
386
00:31:29.750 --> 00:31:31.610
like most of the freaks would.
387
00:31:34.855 --> 00:31:35.515
388
00:31:35.975 --> 00:31:37.995
it's it's guaranteed money.
389
00:31:39.335 --> 00:31:41.115
390
00:31:41.900 --> 00:31:49.200
391
00:31:49.725 --> 00:31:54.525
392
00:31:55.245 --> 00:31:59.320
you know, he's not talking about DeFi or any of he's he's not saying crypto or blockchain.
393
00:32:00.020 --> 00:32:05.800
Right? Like, when someone says crypto or blockchain, it's a signaling mechanism to me that they're just completely missing the plot.
394
00:32:06.184 --> 00:32:12.845
A doge meme has a doge meme is like something like, you know, someone who's been in the space for a while thinks doge is still hysterical.
395
00:32:13.225 --> 00:32:20.270
396
00:32:21.370 --> 00:32:27.115
If he knows about barbecue coin, he's definitely OG and has some Bitcoin.
397
00:32:28.855 --> 00:32:30.395
398
00:32:30.775 --> 00:32:34.100
399
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:40.180
400
00:32:40.664 --> 00:32:41.885
changing some values,
401
00:32:42.345 --> 00:32:42.845
and,
402
00:32:43.304 --> 00:32:48.320
403
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:57.885
You buy Bitcoin ahead of time, then you announce your company is moving some of their treasury reserves into Bitcoin on that side. Illegal. That's that's totally illegal. You can't do that.
404
00:32:58.445 --> 00:33:01.345
405
00:33:01.645 --> 00:33:09.760
406
00:33:11.180 --> 00:33:21.934
Yeah. There there must be, like, some caveat there. Do you call them no. Because it's not a security. It's like it's like, it's a loophole it's a loophole in their bullshit system. Like, it it'd be like if a company
407
00:33:22.635 --> 00:33:29.279
408
00:33:29.659 --> 00:33:36.175
the Bitcoin for Corporation seminar or whatever it was called, I feel like they some of the accounting people were talking about, like
409
00:33:36.735 --> 00:33:50.649
like, phases where sometimes they're, like, frozen where they they their employees can't buy, and then they, like, unlocked and then they can buy. I don't quite understand. It it gets tricky. I'm certain that that, like, he checked to his lawyer.
410
00:33:52.445 --> 00:33:56.225
411
00:33:57.005 --> 00:33:59.480
you you you don't wanna fuck with the SEC. So,
412
00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:11.405
I'm certain that he checked with his lawyer on the right way of doing that. There might be a period. You know, who knows? Maybe, like, 30 days or whatever. People don't realize it's completely legal. Yeah. It's a game.
413
00:34:12.505 --> 00:34:13.005
Everybody
414
00:34:13.865 --> 00:34:22.310
does insider trading. There is no other kind of trading. Insider trading because Bitcoin is not a security. No. I understand. But what I'm just saying is, like,
415
00:34:22.665 --> 00:34:29.244
all the security stuff is bullshit. Should all just be a free for all. Fuck all this stuff. I agree. I 100% agree. But, you know,
416
00:34:29.785 --> 00:34:31.405
417
00:34:32.060 --> 00:34:32.560
that
418
00:34:32.860 --> 00:34:37.760
that this, like, loophole exists, and it's it exists in a way that's gonna end up,
419
00:34:38.915 --> 00:34:48.960
you know, defanging everything that they've that they have built in terms of regulatory framework. I love the fact that he keeps on repeating now on every appearance
420
00:34:49.260 --> 00:34:51.520
421
00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:53.440
He totally clued in.
422
00:34:53.980 --> 00:34:55.200
That is the best
423
00:34:55.945 --> 00:34:56.445
strategy
424
00:34:57.145 --> 00:34:59.885
to not have the US government go out. Yes.
425
00:35:00.265 --> 00:35:02.685
426
00:35:03.150 --> 00:35:04.130
427
00:35:05.069 --> 00:35:10.849
Like, there's no reason to hold dollars all the time at the end of the day. The guy is literally doing a speculative attack on the dollar.
428
00:35:13.375 --> 00:35:17.555
Like, come on, dude. I mean, seriously. Right? How are you gonna buy coffee?
429
00:35:18.175 --> 00:35:21.210
Yeah. Exactly. But but, you know, it's quite brilliant. Right? Like, because
430
00:35:21.510 --> 00:35:25.930
you you don't want to bring because, you know, like, inside,
431
00:35:26.230 --> 00:35:30.395
like, this this this agencies of the government, there is smart people,
432
00:35:30.695 --> 00:35:38.240
but there is also a ton of fucking dumb people, and there is a lot of thumb, dumb middle management who actually makes the decision what to go after. Right?
433
00:35:38.859 --> 00:35:39.920
And I'm sure
434
00:35:40.300 --> 00:35:41.040
the small,
435
00:35:41.580 --> 00:35:57.640
smart minority of these people have been sort of telling their bosses, dude, this Bitcoin thing is a big deal. We need to go after it. Right? But, you know, all these big bosses probably say, no. No. It's not gonna go anywhere. Look. Michael Saylor is saying on TV. It's not going after the dollar.
436
00:35:59.779 --> 00:36:01.000
Holy shit. 49.
437
00:36:01.940 --> 00:36:07.045
438
00:36:07.345 --> 00:36:12.890
Oh, okay. The real price. Yeah. The real price, and the top one is the evil empire. It's Coinbase pro. Yeah. I use,
439
00:36:13.690 --> 00:36:15.309
440
00:36:15.930 --> 00:36:16.750
sell price
441
00:36:17.450 --> 00:36:20.349
is a good, is a good, reference for Canadians
442
00:36:20.785 --> 00:36:22.805
on what the Bitcoin is actually worth
443
00:36:23.105 --> 00:36:23.765
in Canada.
444
00:36:25.985 --> 00:36:35.880
445
00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:43.694
446
00:36:44.315 --> 00:36:52.010
447
00:36:52.790 --> 00:36:58.234
with the whole Crimea thing. Like, when he he just he just took their emblem off of the army.
448
00:36:58.934 --> 00:37:07.550
And and that was, like, enough denial for, like, the overwhelming majority of sheep were, like, oh, well, you know, Putin says those aren't his troops, So I we're just gonna have to believe them.
449
00:37:08.490 --> 00:37:17.365
450
00:37:18.785 --> 00:37:19.285
451
00:37:21.870 --> 00:37:29.970
Yeah. I mean, that's pretty so I I think I think people so so do I kinda go back a little bit, Paul. I mean, you seem to be, like, numb with the price movements,
452
00:37:31.184 --> 00:37:32.005
which I think
453
00:37:32.785 --> 00:37:35.204
me and Rodolfo could attest to as well.
454
00:37:35.585 --> 00:37:40.565
But but, k, you wanna talk to the audience a little bit about the FOMO you feel every morning?
455
00:37:42.820 --> 00:37:44.520
456
00:37:46.740 --> 00:37:48.040
457
00:37:48.484 --> 00:37:48.984
458
00:37:49.685 --> 00:37:55.945
it makes me wanna be better at my job so I can earn more money so I could buy more Bitcoin
459
00:37:56.410 --> 00:38:02.430
or find another job so I could buy more Bitcoin or, you know, it makes me think about how do I get more Bitcoin a lot.
460
00:38:03.290 --> 00:38:04.830
But, yeah, that's about it.
461
00:38:05.365 --> 00:38:06.105
462
00:38:06.485 --> 00:38:11.465
got it there in all caps. Plausible deniability works. Caps or Dell. Oh, by the way, freaks,
463
00:38:12.885 --> 00:38:14.565
464
00:38:15.430 --> 00:38:17.530
this stream went out on Twitter in all caps.
465
00:38:17.910 --> 00:38:19.130
466
00:38:19.430 --> 00:38:20.810
467
00:38:21.270 --> 00:38:24.970
I you know what you know what it is? It's like I'm overwhelmed right now
468
00:38:26.995 --> 00:38:31.255
469
00:38:31.875 --> 00:38:38.460
470
00:38:39.240 --> 00:38:42.460
with me week after week for the last two and a half years,
471
00:38:43.234 --> 00:38:45.974
Like, none of us are ready. We cannot fathom
472
00:38:46.835 --> 00:38:50.935
where we're about to go. Like, I have a tweet from November where I'm like,
473
00:38:51.970 --> 00:38:52.470
I
474
00:38:53.010 --> 00:38:55.430
am probably more ready than 99%
475
00:38:56.049 --> 00:39:02.605
of of people about what comes next. And I wish I had more but I still wish I had more time, to be honest. And
476
00:39:03.225 --> 00:39:04.125
I feel like
477
00:39:04.585 --> 00:39:11.000
looking back on that, like, I still was not ready for what came next. Like, I was still caught the fuck off guard. I still,
478
00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:12.120
you know,
479
00:39:12.900 --> 00:39:18.485
was just did not appreciate the scale that was gonna happen and the speed that was gonna happen.
480
00:39:18.785 --> 00:39:20.245
And I just kinda was like,
481
00:39:21.265 --> 00:39:25.205
you know, maybe if Caps O'Dell was around in November, we would have paid more attention.
482
00:39:25.970 --> 00:39:28.309
483
00:39:28.690 --> 00:39:29.670
I can't wait
484
00:39:29.970 --> 00:39:30.950
for the 250
485
00:39:31.329 --> 00:39:32.309
crash 250.
486
00:39:32.770 --> 00:39:34.150
Oh, it's gonna be glorious.
487
00:39:34.895 --> 00:39:35.635
I mean,
488
00:39:37.455 --> 00:39:41.475
it's like there's nothing more fun in Bitcoin than seeing the price crash.
489
00:39:42.010 --> 00:39:50.270
It's like it's kinda sucks in a way, but it sucks awesome. It's like sitting in a blind in the winter waiting for a game to pass by. It's like it's cold.
490
00:39:50.694 --> 00:39:51.434
It's painful,
491
00:39:51.734 --> 00:39:53.035
but fuck, it's fun.
492
00:39:53.655 --> 00:39:56.234
You know, you see all the talkers,
493
00:39:56.694 --> 00:39:58.395
all that stuff all disappear,
494
00:39:59.095 --> 00:40:00.474
and then it's just like
495
00:40:01.080 --> 00:40:01.580
silence.
496
00:40:02.120 --> 00:40:03.420
Everybody can focus,
497
00:40:03.720 --> 00:40:05.580
everybody already made a bit of money,
498
00:40:06.600 --> 00:40:15.905
you know, it's just so good. When the price is pumping and just starting to pump right now. Right? I mean, we're gonna just beginning. I know. Exactly. It's like
499
00:40:16.430 --> 00:40:18.530
the kind of money that's coming in now,
500
00:40:19.230 --> 00:40:20.450
you know, we might get $2,000,000
501
00:40:20.830 --> 00:40:23.010
by the end of the year. Kind of some parity.
502
00:40:24.110 --> 00:40:25.330
You know, it's not impossible.
503
00:40:25.865 --> 00:40:27.085
Let's put it this way.
504
00:40:28.905 --> 00:40:31.485
I still remember when, like, people used to say that, like, $1,000
505
00:40:31.785 --> 00:40:34.020
506
00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:36.420
507
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:38.420
508
00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:42.125
509
00:40:42.825 --> 00:40:43.645
was my moon.
510
00:40:44.185 --> 00:40:44.685
511
00:40:45.385 --> 00:41:00.675
Yeah. I know. It's like And I I, like, laughed at myself a little bit. I was like, you know, that'd be great, but I I I'd also be happy with, you know, half of it. I think, like and I've been saying, like, Bitcoin is an experiment that can go away tomorrow up until, say, around, like, 5, $10,000.
512
00:41:02.015 --> 00:41:15.645
I'm like, there's still a chance that this should be changed. That's not the case anymore. No. It's because now we have inertia. Right? There's Lindy. Like, it's very hard to kill this thing now. Like, even even, like, even if the whole sort
513
00:41:15.945 --> 00:41:18.365
of even the whole network now makes stupid decisions.
514
00:41:18.665 --> 00:41:19.165
Right?
515
00:41:19.545 --> 00:41:25.670
Say you make the block bigger or something like that. There is so much inertia now that even with
516
00:41:26.050 --> 00:41:27.350
a a less optimal,
517
00:41:29.330 --> 00:41:30.790
protocol, a less optimal,
518
00:41:32.085 --> 00:41:32.585
money,
519
00:41:33.125 --> 00:41:33.865
it still
520
00:41:34.325 --> 00:41:35.385
probably wins.
521
00:41:36.165 --> 00:41:38.745
That's how much inertia there is now in Bitcoin.
522
00:41:39.125 --> 00:41:39.945
Right? Like,
523
00:41:40.450 --> 00:41:41.910
it's just so much that, like,
524
00:41:42.369 --> 00:41:49.349
governments clued in that they clued in late. So now they just sort of, like, probably trying to figure out how they capture
525
00:41:50.185 --> 00:41:58.350
the capturable and how they capture some of the upside as well. Right? They they they there is no government talking about banning Bitcoin anymore. Have you heard of any?
526
00:41:58.990 --> 00:42:10.925
527
00:42:11.945 --> 00:42:13.865
528
00:42:14.265 --> 00:42:24.270
banning Bitcoin is like a total admission that your money is a shit coin. That's the cool part. Could you could pretend that you have a good money until you have to ban a competitor.
529
00:42:26.135 --> 00:42:28.635
530
00:42:29.975 --> 00:42:37.430
531
00:42:37.730 --> 00:42:47.464
and and and got some raspberry pies and stuff. There's nothing there's nothing going on here, but it is not money. It's not it's not it's not USD.
532
00:42:49.490 --> 00:42:50.369
533
00:42:52.130 --> 00:42:59.455
it's so easy for me to see Bitcoin as a as, like, a a thing that works, already works? Because, like, I grew up in Brazil. Right?
534
00:42:59.755 --> 00:43:02.095
And, you know, we had, like,
535
00:43:02.555 --> 00:43:07.829
10 fucking no. Actually, no. My my generation had 3 or 4 failed currencies
536
00:43:08.690 --> 00:43:10.309
and a a bail in haircut.
537
00:43:10.690 --> 00:43:11.190
Right?
538
00:43:12.174 --> 00:43:19.474
It it's just so obvious to me that, like, back then, the the race was, like, how much can I cap how much, like,
539
00:43:20.240 --> 00:43:22.020
USD can I hold? Right?
540
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:32.234
Mhmm. So you you try to scramble to buy USD at whatever shit rate you could you could get because it's better than your money just losing 20, 30, 50 percent value per year. Right?
541
00:43:33.575 --> 00:43:38.270
So so Bitcoin is just so obvious. Right? I mean, like, you have this thing that appreciates.
542
00:43:39.049 --> 00:43:41.309
It's not like the volatility sucks
543
00:43:41.645 --> 00:43:50.705
for a person in that situation because they don't have enough capital to to just survive the the fluctuation. Right? They they they have to sell a bit, so they might sell at a loss.
544
00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:54.540
But even then, it's too much better than their garbage currency.
545
00:43:56.920 --> 00:44:02.715
Like, there is no questions anymore of the validity or or usefulness of the system.
546
00:44:03.655 --> 00:44:07.915
I mean, like, look at gold. Gold has been a fucking, like, pet rock sinking.
547
00:44:10.089 --> 00:44:16.829
548
00:44:17.315 --> 00:44:23.734
started, like, this new book with this idea. Like, the reason fiat won is because it's it's money across
549
00:44:24.115 --> 00:44:35.234
space. Like Yes. Gold was money across time and that was great. But actually, we needed to upgrade for a global society. So we added money across space. And now we've got money across time and space.
550
00:44:35.695 --> 00:44:36.994
That's that's both worlds.
551
00:44:37.454 --> 00:44:38.195
552
00:44:39.135 --> 00:44:41.150
so so the thing is, like,
553
00:44:42.750 --> 00:44:49.569
they like, when people talk about gold and, you you know, is this the great store of value blah blah blah, especially like the libertarian LARPers. Right?
554
00:44:51.555 --> 00:44:54.215
The problem with gold is that gold lost.
555
00:44:54.675 --> 00:44:55.975
It literally lost.
556
00:44:56.355 --> 00:44:56.855
Right?
557
00:44:57.234 --> 00:44:58.455
Because it's capturable.
558
00:44:59.020 --> 00:45:03.760
So what does government do best with capturable things? They take it.
559
00:45:04.700 --> 00:45:13.625
They have the the boots and they have the guns. So they go and they take it. Right? It happened to every major city that had gold in it through history, period.
560
00:45:14.405 --> 00:45:22.090
561
00:45:23.315 --> 00:45:24.615
PayPal and Coinbase.
562
00:45:25.075 --> 00:45:26.695
563
00:45:26.995 --> 00:45:30.295
on on Coinbase between Coinbase exchange and custody.
564
00:45:30.630 --> 00:45:32.010
565
00:45:32.310 --> 00:45:34.650
my numbers is about 10 to 15%.
566
00:45:35.030 --> 00:45:39.849
It's like one phone call. And then 2 phone calls, they probably capture, like,
567
00:45:40.175 --> 00:45:40.675
25%
568
00:45:40.975 --> 00:45:43.715
569
00:45:44.175 --> 00:45:46.595
570
00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:52.660
say say, like, there is a billionaire known for having coin himself,
571
00:45:53.280 --> 00:46:01.365
but it's not a certain his business. It's not a certain city on Coinbase, but he's not willing to move because he has way more money somewhere out, like, on other things. Right?
572
00:46:01.745 --> 00:46:02.245
So
573
00:46:02.945 --> 00:46:23.960
so instead of just being one phone call to Coinbase saying give you the money, you'll be more like a a phone call to the police people saying go get the go tell the guy and then go talk to the judge to get it. It's It's like when you go get it. Silk Road hacker. He hacks Silk Road. Yeah. It was just like a 2 step thing instead of If he figured out who he was, they figured out who he was, and they, like, sent him a letter.
574
00:46:24.599 --> 00:46:38.885
So yeah. So I I think 25 had to manually give them the coin. Right? But he he just cared about his freedom enough to do it. That's exactly right. It's like people who forfeit it so they don't go to jail, and they're not willing to move because they have other shit going on. Which is a lot of people.
575
00:46:39.505 --> 00:46:41.765
Well, yes and no. Right? Because
576
00:46:42.710 --> 00:46:44.730
a lot of people would not move
577
00:46:45.030 --> 00:46:46.570
over tax hikes,
578
00:46:47.110 --> 00:46:51.530
but a lot of people would move over a 100% for feeding kinda situation.
579
00:46:53.285 --> 00:46:55.785
So so it changes the dynamic very quick.
580
00:46:57.205 --> 00:47:00.984
581
00:47:01.359 --> 00:47:04.339
Exactly. Right? I mean It becomes it becomes more,
582
00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:23.420
likely that you'll go down with the ship. Right? No. What happens is you have a boat parade, and then there's a a very bad weather, and then there is, like, all the boats sink that day. I've been trying to add more regular segments to this show, and one of them that I've I've really liked the idea is how would you kill Bitcoin, and I feel like it really fits,
583
00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:28.914
it fits into this current conversation well, so might as well just bring it up now. Do you
584
00:47:29.555 --> 00:47:38.410
so do you think that and and let's let's just go let's pretend we're the the most sophisticated actor in the world. You're the US government. Do you think the US government could stop Bitcoin right now
585
00:47:40.329 --> 00:47:42.990
586
00:47:44.170 --> 00:47:45.390
587
00:47:46.885 --> 00:47:49.465
588
00:47:49.845 --> 00:47:53.945
the US government could kill Bitcoin is by embracing it
589
00:47:54.290 --> 00:47:58.630
and then, like, taking over the software development and just making
590
00:47:59.090 --> 00:48:04.315
really awful software that nobody likes. That's hard to run, and it just, like, even rolling worse.
591
00:48:05.255 --> 00:48:06.795
592
00:48:07.735 --> 00:48:08.235
Like,
593
00:48:10.070 --> 00:48:12.470
sorry. Go on YouTube and watch the presentation by,
594
00:48:13.110 --> 00:48:17.610
the the the free BSD guy in 2014 about operation
595
00:48:17.990 --> 00:48:18.490
Orchestra.
596
00:48:19.975 --> 00:48:24.955
It's totally worth watching. That's exactly how they destroyed open SSL, for example.
597
00:48:25.734 --> 00:48:27.515
You just make a bunch of bad,
598
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:31.620
very bad decisions. You make the software awful. There's no documentation,
599
00:48:32.160 --> 00:48:35.140
and then it just add all the bugs that he can exploit later.
600
00:48:35.744 --> 00:48:41.765
601
00:48:42.680 --> 00:48:57.815
602
00:48:59.180 --> 00:49:01.819
They can use one of their hedge funds, like, you know, the government,
603
00:49:02.140 --> 00:49:05.280
arm, like, Andreessen Horowitz or one of those.
604
00:49:06.835 --> 00:49:11.895
And and then and then on the other end, they can introduce a bunch of friction and then a bunch of grief
605
00:49:12.435 --> 00:49:13.175
on the
606
00:49:13.770 --> 00:49:18.750
on the on the Bitcoin core sort of developing like they did with the with changing blacklist,
607
00:49:21.050 --> 00:49:23.150
variable there and everybody got pissed.
608
00:49:24.325 --> 00:49:27.785
And then and then they can they can also sort of, like,
609
00:49:28.484 --> 00:49:31.305
build a fuck ton of and then and then
610
00:49:31.809 --> 00:49:37.589
go and, like, destroy those the the factories to sell to everybody else so they could own Bitcoin mining eventually.
611
00:49:39.010 --> 00:49:40.950
There's a lot of ways they could do it.
612
00:49:41.865 --> 00:49:44.045
But but, again, the the level of coordination,
613
00:49:44.665 --> 00:49:47.964
614
00:49:48.265 --> 00:49:50.845
a lot of a lot of motivation. I'm not a huge
615
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:54.580
616
00:49:56.240 --> 00:50:01.635
617
00:50:02.255 --> 00:50:04.515
really pushing, like, encryption bans,
618
00:50:05.535 --> 00:50:06.194
or, like,
619
00:50:06.494 --> 00:50:09.954
everything's gotta have a backdoor. And I I felt like it wasn't too
620
00:50:10.480 --> 00:50:18.725
wasn't too threatening to Bitcoin because their method of enforcing that was to tell, like, companies Yep. Would have to build the backdoor in. So, like,
621
00:50:19.285 --> 00:50:24.585
a purely open source project doesn't have to build a backdoor in. But So I do I do think some
622
00:50:25.365 --> 00:50:25.865
some
623
00:50:26.325 --> 00:50:27.785
I don't know what an effective
624
00:50:28.329 --> 00:50:33.150
crackdown on encryption would look like, and obviously, it's been resisted before, but is an interesting
625
00:50:33.770 --> 00:50:41.155
626
00:50:42.015 --> 00:50:44.595
that we'd probably see with any kind of
627
00:50:47.040 --> 00:50:47.540
realistic,
628
00:50:48.080 --> 00:50:49.700
you know, likely Bitcoin
629
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:58.785
attack. And and I I think I think instead of going I think, you know, open source software is very hard to snuff out. It pretty much impossible to snuff out,
630
00:50:59.085 --> 00:51:00.945
without going, like, purely to totalitarian
631
00:51:01.645 --> 00:51:03.450
and going really hard hardcore totalitarian.
632
00:51:03.830 --> 00:51:04.970
So the result is
633
00:51:05.830 --> 00:51:13.505
is sophisticated users will be able to still use Bitcoin or sophisticated users will still be able to use PGP encryption and encrypt their communications,
634
00:51:14.045 --> 00:51:16.865
but that average law abiding American citizen,
635
00:51:17.650 --> 00:51:19.590
that average law abiding citizen
636
00:51:19.970 --> 00:51:23.910
won't get the benefit of, you know, easy encryption in Imessage
637
00:51:24.424 --> 00:51:29.144
or easy encryption in signal or easy Bitcoin payments through Apple Pay or,
638
00:51:29.625 --> 00:51:35.559
an an app that you just install from the App Store or something like that. Right? Let me just say something that you're not gonna like.
639
00:51:35.940 --> 00:51:37.880
640
00:51:38.819 --> 00:51:39.319
Seriously,
641
00:51:39.619 --> 00:51:43.474
the ratio of humans that get screwed as opposed to screw.
642
00:51:44.255 --> 00:51:47.714
Yeah. No. The the ratio of screwed versus screwy
643
00:51:48.335 --> 00:51:50.595
is all is gonna remain a constant
644
00:51:51.010 --> 00:51:51.750
through humanity's
645
00:51:52.290 --> 00:51:53.350
history, period.
646
00:51:53.890 --> 00:52:06.435
There's no way out of that. See, the difference between pre Bitcoin world and pulse Bitcoin world, we're gonna probably change the the EARS system like we did for Jesus. It's gonna be pre Bitcoin, post Bitcoin,
647
00:52:07.535 --> 00:52:08.275
is that
648
00:52:08.980 --> 00:52:10.040
before Bitcoin,
649
00:52:11.540 --> 00:52:14.120
the average person was not able
650
00:52:14.820 --> 00:52:19.615
to do anything. Right? Like, they they just did there there was no way for them to carry
651
00:52:20.075 --> 00:52:27.390
a chunk of gold or to to do anything. They had no access, right, to freedom essentially. If freedom really comes from money. Right?
652
00:52:28.810 --> 00:52:35.265
And and post Bitcoin just means that, like, now any person can have 24 words and have their wealth
653
00:52:36.045 --> 00:52:38.785
completely in outside of meat space. Right?
654
00:52:39.645 --> 00:52:40.145
So
655
00:52:41.130 --> 00:52:48.190
what Bitcoin gives the average person now is just the possibility. Right? But all we can do is take the horse to the water.
656
00:52:48.570 --> 00:52:49.390
That's all.
657
00:52:49.724 --> 00:52:50.224
Right?
658
00:52:50.925 --> 00:52:52.865
There's just so much we can do.
659
00:52:53.244 --> 00:52:55.505
Like, Bitcoin is not for everybody.
660
00:52:56.365 --> 00:52:59.230
661
00:52:59.609 --> 00:52:59.930
like,
662
00:53:00.410 --> 00:53:01.390
I'm kind of
663
00:53:01.690 --> 00:53:05.130
I haven't been following it, but, like, this this Google banning,
664
00:53:05.609 --> 00:53:06.109
element
665
00:53:06.625 --> 00:53:07.845
for matrix chat
666
00:53:08.225 --> 00:53:11.365
is kinda fun. Because it's like, oh, well, here's a perfectly
667
00:53:12.225 --> 00:53:12.725
useful,
668
00:53:13.265 --> 00:53:16.490
good, interesting software. It's a federated alternative.
669
00:53:16.950 --> 00:53:18.250
It's encrypted chat.
670
00:53:19.270 --> 00:53:26.635
And now here's an excuse to get f droid. You know? Yeah. And and and you're not, like, going on f droid to get, like, the the world's, like,
671
00:53:27.015 --> 00:53:31.195
20th best text editor. You're going on f droid to get, like, a very,
672
00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:34.980
very good encrypted chat alternative.
673
00:53:35.360 --> 00:53:36.180
674
00:53:36.640 --> 00:53:39.460
I mean, there's a whole another conversation about F droid because,
675
00:53:40.345 --> 00:53:45.565
you shouldn't download Element from F droid because it's their repo is is way delayed.
676
00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:48.260
So yeah.
677
00:53:48.880 --> 00:53:52.020
678
00:53:52.320 --> 00:53:57.175
of, like, talking about, like, the 7 0.5 or 8? I don't know. I lost count of humanity.
679
00:53:58.115 --> 00:53:58.855
680
00:53:59.234 --> 00:54:01.494
681
00:54:01.875 --> 00:54:07.810
right, are realistically gonna, like, use some of these tools that you have to consciously,
682
00:54:08.990 --> 00:54:18.115
683
00:54:20.469 --> 00:54:26.450
a fed another federated tool, open source tool, similar to Mastodon as we've discussed on on this show in the past.
684
00:54:27.105 --> 00:54:30.965
In this case, it's like a Slack replacement or a Telegram replacement.
685
00:54:32.465 --> 00:54:39.020
It it is very slick. It has, like, all the features you would expect to have, and really, I think the average user,
686
00:54:39.800 --> 00:54:42.040
can interact with it without really kind of any
687
00:54:42.905 --> 00:54:46.045
they only need, like, a surface level understanding of what's going on.
688
00:54:46.585 --> 00:54:58.220
The person that needs to be sophisticated is the person who's running the instance. Right? That that that reminds me of 6. I I I have a I have a Bitcoin q and a friend of the show, and he was on the show, and he'll be on the show again.
689
00:54:58.840 --> 00:55:00.940
He launched his own instance, bitcointer.chat,
690
00:55:03.065 --> 00:55:07.805
and Diverter, who is also on the show, has his own called use the dot tools.
691
00:55:08.505 --> 00:55:15.030
And if you register with either of them, you can interact with the other ones as well, which is it's just really fucking cool.
692
00:55:15.410 --> 00:55:15.910
693
00:55:16.690 --> 00:55:17.705
that reminds me,
694
00:55:18.265 --> 00:55:22.685
every time there is a good solution that the the sheep are gonna use,
695
00:55:23.065 --> 00:55:30.940
they get skilled immediately because they know that that's the one. Right? This this is the the classic example to me is pass the popcorn.
696
00:55:31.880 --> 00:55:33.740
Like, pass the popcorn
697
00:55:34.200 --> 00:55:35.500
was the best
698
00:55:36.225 --> 00:55:38.305
699
00:55:38.785 --> 00:55:45.445
700
00:55:46.849 --> 00:55:47.829
That was like,
701
00:55:48.210 --> 00:55:53.029
it was better than any other TV experience. It was better than Apple TV,
702
00:55:53.445 --> 00:55:55.945
Right? You just plug the thing in
703
00:55:56.565 --> 00:56:01.080
and you press the button and it works right. Like he was perfect.
704
00:56:01.380 --> 00:56:14.225
Man, I have never seen studios go after something so hard ever. They hit him hard and fast. Oh, it was, like, like, immediate. I think that thing lasted, like, 2 weeks after he got, like, some exposure.
705
00:56:14.525 --> 00:56:18.420
706
00:56:19.059 --> 00:56:40.619
707
00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:53.075
kind of thing of people, then it's kind of over. Right? That's the thing. We can talk about all this shit about censorship resistance. Right? You pull it out of the app store, and that's probably enough to disturb to deter most people from using it. But that's what I'm saying. Right? Like, with Bitcoin,
708
00:56:54.319 --> 00:56:56.500
709
00:56:57.359 --> 00:56:58.980
who are actually Bitcoiners
710
00:56:59.440 --> 00:57:01.540
are people who self validate
711
00:57:02.025 --> 00:57:03.405
and hold their own keys.
712
00:57:03.705 --> 00:57:04.765
Everybody else
713
00:57:05.465 --> 00:57:07.405
are just they they are taking
714
00:57:07.705 --> 00:57:09.085
advantage of the Bitcoin
715
00:57:09.385 --> 00:57:10.285
price upside.
716
00:57:10.839 --> 00:57:11.339
Right?
717
00:57:11.880 --> 00:57:14.940
But they're all gonna get fucked if ever
718
00:57:15.319 --> 00:57:17.579
there is a concern about ownership.
719
00:57:19.055 --> 00:57:20.275
720
00:57:20.815 --> 00:57:23.235
If Apple and Google decided
721
00:57:24.335 --> 00:57:29.690
that Bitcoin was their number one enemy and they would do it what whatever it took to get rid of Bitcoin.
722
00:57:30.550 --> 00:57:31.850
Or the US government,
723
00:57:32.390 --> 00:57:33.850
this is a alternate scenario,
724
00:57:34.310 --> 00:57:44.885
decided that Bitcoin was its number one enemy, and it would do it at whatever it takes. Who has a better shot at at shutting down Bitcoin? Well, the thing is if the US government does it, they'll do it through
725
00:57:45.640 --> 00:57:46.619
726
00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:51.900
Exactly. Right? They are arms TikTok. This is this is the thing that's crazy to me about Bitcoiners.
727
00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:57.405
It's just infuriating about some Bitcoiners is that they were pro TikTok ban.
728
00:57:58.745 --> 00:58:11.230
And some of them are on Clubhouse right now too, which is kind of interesting that you have a Clubhouse. But the difference the difference between if it was a Chinese app versus an American app, all of a sudden the corporate surveillance is fine,
729
00:58:11.785 --> 00:58:18.444
if it's a US app. But if it's a Chinese app, we gotta ban it from the store. But I think you can easily drum up support for this stuff, and
730
00:58:18.830 --> 00:58:21.810
and, I mean, if I was in a position trying to kill Bitcoin,
731
00:58:23.230 --> 00:58:25.970
on on from an American government side,
732
00:58:26.484 --> 00:58:31.385
I would what I would do is I would I would I would start declaring Americans'
733
00:58:34.060 --> 00:58:34.880
terrorist organizations,
734
00:58:35.660 --> 00:58:40.400
and then I would say that those Americans are using Bitcoin to fund their terrorist operations.
735
00:58:41.100 --> 00:58:43.760
And we're already seeing the first step of that,
736
00:58:44.494 --> 00:58:56.280
with our current administration where they're they're coming out and and they're and and and and to be to be fair, we saw that with the previous administration on the Antifa side. So now we have
737
00:58:56.660 --> 00:58:58.280
we have a very opaque,
738
00:58:59.375 --> 00:59:02.675
may and it's always been that way, to be honest. A very a very opaque,
739
00:59:03.135 --> 00:59:03.955
not transparent
740
00:59:04.335 --> 00:59:11.609
way of dictating who's a terrorist and who's not, and it's just very simple step after that to say that they use Bitcoin because,
741
00:59:12.230 --> 00:59:13.849
of course, the people that
742
00:59:14.390 --> 00:59:22.505
you know, they're being censored on hold the other platforms. So, of course, that they're gonna end up using encryption in Bitcoin. Right? But, Matt, this is why it's so important for
743
00:59:22.805 --> 00:59:24.265
744
00:59:25.710 --> 00:59:26.450
to understand
745
00:59:27.710 --> 00:59:29.970
that, like, it's it's like
746
00:59:31.390 --> 00:59:33.410
all these publicly traded companies
747
00:59:33.710 --> 00:59:34.609
buying Bitcoin,
748
00:59:34.975 --> 00:59:35.875
all these politicians
749
00:59:36.175 --> 00:59:37.075
buying Bitcoin,
750
00:59:37.375 --> 00:59:39.315
all the coin bases of sorts,
751
00:59:39.775 --> 00:59:40.915
all these entities
752
00:59:41.215 --> 00:59:41.955
are moat
753
00:59:42.530 --> 00:59:43.190
for us.
754
00:59:44.210 --> 00:59:48.950
The more Bitcoin all these entities have, the better it is for us because,
755
00:59:49.570 --> 00:59:53.685
see, the US government is not gonna crash its own stock market
756
00:59:55.025 --> 00:59:55.525
757
00:59:55.825 --> 00:59:59.845
758
01:00:00.230 --> 01:00:00.730
okay,
759
01:00:01.510 --> 01:00:04.570
until you play their game with your game rules.
760
01:00:05.350 --> 01:00:07.050
See, this is why it's so beautiful,
761
01:00:07.430 --> 01:00:11.464
like what Saylor is doing with the speculative attack on the dollar.
762
01:00:12.005 --> 01:00:15.145
It's it's fucking rare. Not attacking the dollar. And then goes on TV
763
01:00:15.610 --> 01:00:23.550
and then goes on fucking TV with a straight fucking face and says, we're not coming after the dollar. It's fucking amazing.
764
01:00:26.255 --> 01:00:32.994
This is what we need. We need more of that. We need, like, another a 100 guys doing that. It's hard it's hard it's hard to say that
765
01:00:33.410 --> 01:00:39.590
766
01:00:40.905 --> 01:00:43.885
767
01:00:44.744 --> 01:00:50.090
you know what I mean? Like, you want a lefty symbol, you want a righty symbol, you want a center symbol, all these people
768
01:00:50.650 --> 01:00:51.550
to be Bitcoiners.
769
01:00:53.210 --> 01:00:55.550
770
01:00:57.130 --> 01:00:59.070
I guess we had a,
771
01:01:00.585 --> 01:01:04.525
a freak in the comments asked if we would do a cold card giveaway.
772
01:01:05.145 --> 01:01:06.925
Rodolfo, are you on board for that?
773
01:01:07.260 --> 01:01:09.119
774
01:01:09.579 --> 01:01:10.319
775
01:01:10.780 --> 01:01:12.720
what do you think about should we do, like,
776
01:01:13.579 --> 01:01:15.200
a Coinbase Pro price
777
01:01:15.579 --> 01:01:15.900
at
778
01:01:17.365 --> 01:01:18.724
in an hour from now at,
779
01:01:19.365 --> 01:01:20.425
at 1919100,
780
01:01:22.885 --> 01:01:35.975
eastern time? If you can come up with something more juicy, we can give a whole block clock media. What do you think? I I'm thinking about something that that they can just put it in the comments, and, like, we'll we'll know who wins in the future. Well, that's easier.
781
01:01:36.435 --> 01:01:50.280
Right? And, like, the price Yeah. Sure. Let's do it. Why no. Seriously. And and I don't wanna do the bisque one because otherwise, they're all just gonna put in a prediction, like, 5 minutes beforehand that the liquidity is so low that it's not a good thing. So we're gonna have to use the evil empire.
782
01:01:51.855 --> 01:01:54.755
So should we do should we do closest to the price,
783
01:01:55.935 --> 01:01:58.275
closest to the price at 24100
784
01:01:58.815 --> 01:02:02.420
UTC, so in an out for in 57 minutes from now,
785
01:02:03.359 --> 01:02:04.660
closest to the price,
786
01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:06.740
without going under?
787
01:02:08.535 --> 01:02:10.555
788
01:02:11.255 --> 01:02:18.070
The person that gets if so if anybody gets it close to the dollar gets a block lock mini, one person, of course,
789
01:02:19.090 --> 01:02:25.190
and and, and then to win the the second, like, the the cold card, it could be anything, whoever's the closest.
790
01:02:27.155 --> 01:02:30.875
But to win a mini, you have to get close to the dollar. Okay. And you're you're
791
01:02:31.315 --> 01:02:39.370
792
01:02:39.670 --> 01:02:41.610
Let's do $5. Yeah. $5.
793
01:02:42.185 --> 01:02:43.325
And and,
794
01:02:43.705 --> 01:02:45.725
if it doesn't show up in the video,
795
01:02:46.265 --> 01:02:52.270
you're you're not included. So make sure that if if you comment the price, it needs to show up in the video between now and
796
01:02:53.609 --> 01:02:55.609
and and but guys guys guys
797
01:02:57.609 --> 01:02:59.550
well, what is it they put in 2 predictions?
798
01:03:00.655 --> 01:03:14.099
799
01:03:16.535 --> 01:03:17.415
800
01:03:18.055 --> 01:03:21.915
okay. So you only can put in 1 about this? Starting starting
801
01:03:22.375 --> 01:03:22.875
802
01:03:23.620 --> 01:03:25.640
after let me find here a person.
803
01:03:26.740 --> 01:03:27.240
Okay.
804
01:03:28.260 --> 01:03:34.315
Z x flee. Yeah. Just one entry. What? Yeah. So after z x flee, start again.
805
01:03:35.415 --> 01:03:35.915
806
01:03:36.935 --> 01:03:39.435
807
01:03:40.055 --> 01:03:40.555
something.
808
01:03:41.150 --> 01:03:46.690
809
01:03:47.150 --> 01:03:50.050
So if if you're smart, you're gonna wait to make your prediction.
810
01:03:50.695 --> 01:03:59.835
Wait. How long could they wait? Right? They gotta put it in before the cutoff. Yeah. When when what's the cutoff? So 10 minutes before 10 minutes before we cut it off?
811
01:04:00.450 --> 01:04:01.510
812
01:04:02.210 --> 01:04:06.310
813
01:04:07.010 --> 01:04:12.975
814
01:04:13.915 --> 01:04:15.135
announce it's a cutoff.
815
01:04:17.990 --> 01:04:28.785
816
01:04:29.085 --> 01:04:33.820
817
01:04:37.800 --> 01:04:40.300
818
01:04:41.535 --> 01:04:44.115
819
01:04:45.935 --> 01:04:49.075
820
01:04:50.130 --> 01:04:53.109
I mean, while while we're on that while we're on that tangent,
821
01:04:54.450 --> 01:04:59.829
I I thought an interesting premise for a reoccurring segment would be a price prediction for next show?
822
01:05:00.195 --> 01:05:04.135
Mhmm. Where where do you think the Bitcoin price will be on Tuesday, Rodolfo?
823
01:05:04.755 --> 01:05:06.855
824
01:05:08.380 --> 01:05:12.320
Okay. Can I give 2 predictions? A bear and a a bear and a bull? Sure.
825
01:05:12.780 --> 01:05:14.800
Alright. My bear for next week
826
01:05:15.340 --> 01:05:15.840
is
827
01:05:16.485 --> 01:05:16.985
is,
828
01:05:17.765 --> 01:05:18.265
another
829
01:05:19.365 --> 01:05:20.985
whole fucking week
830
01:05:21.445 --> 01:05:22.585
of, like, forties.
831
01:05:24.060 --> 01:05:25.920
And the bow is,
832
01:05:26.620 --> 01:05:28.240
we jump to 60.
833
01:05:33.075 --> 01:05:36.055
834
01:05:36.915 --> 01:05:37.415
835
01:05:38.275 --> 01:05:43.480
836
01:05:44.180 --> 01:05:54.275
837
01:05:54.575 --> 01:05:55.935
838
01:05:56.974 --> 01:06:00.115
I mean, I don't I don't think we ever go under 40 k ever again.
839
01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:07.300
And, I don't think we ever go under 40 k ever again, and I think I I think we hit 50 before our HR on Thursday.
840
01:06:09.005 --> 01:06:11.025
841
01:06:11.405 --> 01:06:16.705
842
01:06:19.870 --> 01:06:23.730
So, I mean, Paul, so you wanted to talk about BIPS and the BIPS process,
843
01:06:24.275 --> 01:06:27.155
and I I I think Rodolfo is a great person,
844
01:06:27.875 --> 01:06:30.214
for you to, you know, discuss this with,
845
01:06:30.515 --> 01:06:32.055
because he's been pretty active,
846
01:06:33.140 --> 01:06:35.240
in how how all that unfolds.
847
01:06:35.540 --> 01:06:37.560
And, I mean, they just submitted a new BIP.
848
01:06:38.020 --> 01:06:42.440
I guess he was he was you're a part of that Rodolfo. Right? I might have helped the name.
849
01:06:43.595 --> 01:06:45.455
For for a new BIP for multisig.
850
01:06:46.875 --> 01:06:50.815
And so Paul Paul is, you know, a a relatively new Bitcoiner,
851
01:06:51.530 --> 01:06:52.510
class of 2017.
852
01:06:53.450 --> 01:06:56.350
And he's been trying to, you know, get more involved in Bitcoin,
853
01:06:57.050 --> 01:06:58.430
from a development angle.
854
01:06:59.325 --> 01:07:03.105
And part of that has been exploring the Bitcoin improvement protocol,
855
01:07:04.045 --> 01:07:05.244
process. Right? So
856
01:07:06.280 --> 01:07:07.020
cold bips.
857
01:07:07.960 --> 01:07:11.820
858
01:07:12.200 --> 01:07:12.760
like, I,
859
01:07:13.960 --> 01:07:15.660
I'll give you my specific example.
860
01:07:16.255 --> 01:07:17.075
I exported
861
01:07:17.375 --> 01:07:20.195
the generic wall export from a cold card.
862
01:07:20.975 --> 01:07:27.470
And there's a whole bunch of numbers in there, and there's 3 bips referred to in there, which are,
863
01:07:30.329 --> 01:07:37.585
their derivation path things. I don't know what they are. Yeah. Yeah. BIP. And, 24. Yeah. Yeah. You're there.
864
01:07:37.885 --> 01:07:42.740
And so and then you go look up the BIP and and what it means.
865
01:07:44.160 --> 01:07:44.660
So,
866
01:07:45.040 --> 01:07:46.099
like on github.com/bitcoin/bips,
867
01:07:48.079 --> 01:07:50.725
there's this huge list of BIPs. Yeah.
868
01:07:51.745 --> 01:07:55.925
I actually had not noticed until recently that there is an actual status
869
01:07:56.625 --> 01:07:57.285
on them.
870
01:07:57.825 --> 01:08:01.940
So you could have a BIP, and it could have a number, but it could be,
871
01:08:02.800 --> 01:08:03.300
withdrawn.
872
01:08:03.680 --> 01:08:14.265
So, like, somebody had an idea for how Bitcoin should work. People were into it, and then later on, it got superseded by something or got reversed. As far as I understand, like, right now with Taproot,
873
01:08:14.960 --> 01:08:16.340
they are, like, revising
874
01:08:17.440 --> 01:08:24.179
875
01:08:24.625 --> 01:08:27.204
So say you have an idea. Okay?
876
01:08:27.824 --> 01:08:29.204
I have a fantastic
877
01:08:29.585 --> 01:08:32.324
idea for Bitcoin. I think the client should be red,
878
01:08:33.025 --> 01:08:34.244
and it's red
879
01:08:37.540 --> 01:08:38.679
gray. Right?
880
01:08:39.860 --> 01:08:42.199
So what you do is you'd normally,
881
01:08:44.745 --> 01:08:49.885
before you do anything, you go talk to a few people who contribute to Bitcoin, and you say, hey. I have this idea.
882
01:08:50.505 --> 01:08:55.110
Right? The Bitcoin client should be red. They're gonna say you're an idiot. Don't do that.
883
01:08:55.650 --> 01:09:01.110
And and, you know, if enough of them telling you you're an idiot and you shouldn't be doing that, you probably shouldn't be doing that.
884
01:09:02.304 --> 01:09:05.764
But let's say a few of them say, hey. You know what? That's a great idea.
885
01:09:06.065 --> 01:09:07.364
You should write a proposal.
886
01:09:07.985 --> 01:09:12.909
So you write a proposal. You show it to a few people first, get them to sort of, like,
887
01:09:13.370 --> 01:09:14.270
tell you that
888
01:09:14.889 --> 01:09:17.070
that that has some legs. Right?
889
01:09:17.530 --> 01:09:19.310
And then what you normally do is
890
01:09:19.715 --> 01:09:24.535
you you send your idea to the mailing list, to the dev Bitcoin dev mailing list,
891
01:09:25.155 --> 01:09:31.530
and then people are gonna respond to you, giving you some feedback, giving you criticism, saying this is good, this is about whatever. Right?
892
01:09:32.070 --> 01:09:32.730
And then,
893
01:09:34.230 --> 01:09:36.810
it's very academic in that sense. Right?
894
01:09:37.815 --> 01:09:46.555
And then say you got all the feedback, you you, you know, you continue and say it's good enough. Right? So then what you do is you go on that on the BIPS
895
01:09:48.449 --> 01:09:48.949
repo,
896
01:09:49.969 --> 01:09:50.870
and and
897
01:09:51.489 --> 01:09:57.155
and you you ask to have a number, really. Right? And and, like, the the maintainers are gonna
898
01:09:57.455 --> 01:10:01.235
give that bIP a number. And if the bIP gets approved that he gets a number.
899
01:10:02.520 --> 01:10:06.699
If that bib gets approved, it means it's gonna almost certainly
900
01:10:07.159 --> 01:10:09.659
make to the Bitcoin client
901
01:10:09.960 --> 01:10:11.420
which is the core client.
902
01:10:12.965 --> 01:10:13.445
903
01:10:13.845 --> 01:10:15.625
Why why almost certainly?
904
01:10:17.445 --> 01:10:31.994
905
01:10:32.614 --> 01:10:34.474
It could it could happen, I guess.
906
01:10:34.775 --> 01:10:39.710
It's not things coming to mind. I don't wanna talk into absolutes because we have so many bips now. We're at, like, 300.
907
01:10:40.570 --> 01:10:42.190
908
01:10:44.100 --> 01:10:44.600
PSBTs.
909
01:10:45.575 --> 01:10:50.955
910
01:10:51.575 --> 01:10:55.035
Just sitting there for, I don't know, like, 2 years
911
01:10:55.400 --> 01:10:58.540
or something more. I don't know. Nobody was using it.
912
01:10:59.800 --> 01:11:13.370
913
01:11:13.850 --> 01:11:26.804
But the because you aren't certain that it is implemented everywhere, you don't know what what does that mean. Like, it's it's it There's not a guarantee that everybody in Bitcoin is going to accommodate this even though it seems to be approved,
914
01:11:27.744 --> 01:11:29.445
as a path for Bitcoin.
915
01:11:29.760 --> 01:11:31.620
916
01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:35.780
because it exactly represents a rough consensus system.
917
01:11:36.400 --> 01:11:38.785
There is no official Bitcoin
918
01:11:39.085 --> 01:11:39.585
anything,
919
01:11:40.525 --> 01:11:43.425
including Bitcoin Core and including the Bips.
920
01:11:44.125 --> 01:11:46.145
Nothing in Bitcoin is official.
921
01:11:46.940 --> 01:11:49.840
You're free to do whatever the fuck you want.
922
01:11:50.380 --> 01:11:50.880
Right?
923
01:11:51.340 --> 01:11:56.315
Now you have to do the consequences of that too. Right? If the majority of the network
924
01:11:56.775 --> 01:11:58.155
follows Bitcoin core
925
01:11:59.094 --> 01:12:03.995
now and you create a different set of consensus rules, you're probably not gonna sync. Right?
926
01:12:05.900 --> 01:12:10.320
Now when it comes to wallets and other things that are not necessarily protocol related,
927
01:12:10.860 --> 01:12:11.840
but because
928
01:12:12.835 --> 01:12:17.495
the Bitcoin network doesn't give a shit on how you do your wallet. As long as your
929
01:12:17.875 --> 01:12:18.375
UTXO's,
930
01:12:18.755 --> 01:12:20.135
your unspent outputs,
931
01:12:20.790 --> 01:12:24.250
and your transactions are signed correctly and then broadcasted,
932
01:12:24.950 --> 01:12:28.090
everything else on how you deal with your Bitcoin is your problem.
933
01:12:28.765 --> 01:12:30.225
Right? What happened
934
01:12:30.605 --> 01:12:32.545
was in the last few years,
935
01:12:33.485 --> 01:12:35.105
there's been a lot more
936
01:12:36.180 --> 01:12:37.640
attempts at standardizing
937
01:12:38.740 --> 01:12:42.235
a lot of the a lot of the ways you do wallet stuff.
938
01:12:42.795 --> 01:12:44.255
So for example, BIP 39
939
01:12:44.955 --> 01:12:46.975
is how you do the the mnemonic
940
01:12:47.435 --> 01:12:50.335
c generation, right, with the with the mnemonic words,
941
01:12:52.239 --> 01:12:52.739
But
942
01:12:53.200 --> 01:12:58.980
that bip does not even, like, pertains to, like, derivation paths. Right?
943
01:12:59.665 --> 01:13:00.485
BIP 32
944
01:13:00.864 --> 01:13:04.005
was the first one. It was the hierarchical determinate deterministic,
945
01:13:05.025 --> 01:13:10.290
path generation. Right? But it also does not tell you which paths to take.
946
01:13:11.550 --> 01:13:12.050
So
947
01:13:12.429 --> 01:13:16.850
948
01:13:17.215 --> 01:13:20.594
but still there were parts of the wallet that were kind of underspecified.
949
01:13:21.775 --> 01:13:27.550
950
01:13:28.489 --> 01:13:34.829
And then there is this thing where it's like, you know, most people don't use core as their wallet. They only use core as a node.
951
01:13:37.255 --> 01:13:45.790
So much so that Bitcoin Core got named Core as opposed to Bitcoin, just Bitcoin, because they were going to separate the wallet from the
952
01:13:46.370 --> 01:13:46.870
node.
953
01:13:47.450 --> 01:13:50.510
They were going to separate the wallet code from the consensus code,
954
01:13:51.690 --> 01:13:52.590
because technically,
955
01:13:53.675 --> 01:13:55.615
those 2 have nothing to do with each other.
956
01:13:56.075 --> 01:14:05.930
957
01:14:06.790 --> 01:14:08.810
958
01:14:09.575 --> 01:14:15.755
Right? There is no owner. There's no benevolent dictator like in Linux or anything like that. So
959
01:14:17.530 --> 01:14:18.510
960
01:14:18.890 --> 01:14:22.270
there be a wall in core, it kinda helps there be a wall consensus?
961
01:14:22.650 --> 01:14:23.870
962
01:14:24.330 --> 01:14:24.830
earnestly
963
01:14:25.405 --> 01:14:29.105
try to create things that are compatible with other things in Bitcoin. Right?
964
01:14:29.645 --> 01:14:39.020
It's just that it they're gonna deviate. Right? Like, for example, cold card, we're, like, super anal about trying to keep within bps
965
01:14:39.560 --> 01:14:42.219
even when we think some of those bps are terrible
966
01:14:44.244 --> 01:14:44.744
because
967
01:14:46.965 --> 01:14:49.625
we we want to build a thing that's just compatible.
968
01:14:50.170 --> 01:14:54.350
Right? Like, with most of the solutions and it's open. It's that way. Right?
969
01:14:55.690 --> 01:14:58.570
And we are not we don't touch shitcoins. Right? Now,
970
01:14:59.675 --> 01:15:08.335
when you have other hardware wallets or other wallets that touch shitcoins, now they need to make their stuff a little bit more pragmatic towards the shitcoins. Right? So for example, BIP 39,
971
01:15:08.850 --> 01:15:15.350
like, you know, Trezor supports a bunch of shitcoins, so they they don't wanna add a bunch of, like, extra stuff that's Bitcoin specific,
972
01:15:16.925 --> 01:15:19.345
to it because it won't be compatible with shitcoins.
973
01:15:19.805 --> 01:15:20.945
Right? So that's why
974
01:15:21.405 --> 01:15:23.265
you're really only gonna see
975
01:15:23.820 --> 01:15:26.719
Bitcoin only wallets supporting PSBTs,
976
01:15:27.340 --> 01:15:30.000
right, the partially signed Bitcoin transaction files,
977
01:15:31.235 --> 01:15:34.534
on Bitcoin only wallets, not on Shecoin wallets
978
01:15:35.875 --> 01:15:38.054
because the SPT is Bitcoin only.
979
01:15:39.960 --> 01:15:48.300
So it gets tricky. Right? Like, I mean, people have businesses to run and and it's completely understandable that they're gonna make decisions around those those pragmatic views.
980
01:15:48.905 --> 01:15:53.165
981
01:15:53.864 --> 01:16:03.180
when I see because, like, if you go to these bips, like, they are pretty technical. They refer to each other a lot. Yeah. So you could've Yes. See It's like the bible.
982
01:16:03.640 --> 01:16:04.140
Yeah.
983
01:16:05.375 --> 01:16:12.994
So, like, as a user, when you see someone refer to something by the BIP, like, like, what is your go to
984
01:16:14.139 --> 01:16:18.719
for for research? Like, where you where where do you go first when you're trying to, like,
985
01:16:19.340 --> 01:16:25.815
986
01:16:27.875 --> 01:16:30.935
Like, you go to the source. You go to Bitcoin Core,
987
01:16:31.810 --> 01:16:35.670
and you go read the bips, and you go read the code. Just read the code.
988
01:16:36.210 --> 01:16:37.750
It's terrible for noobs.
989
01:16:38.210 --> 01:16:38.949
It's rape.
990
01:16:39.385 --> 01:16:41.805
But this is what I keep on trying to say to people. Right?
991
01:16:42.905 --> 01:16:44.685
Bitcoin like, true Bitcoining.
992
01:16:45.225 --> 01:16:47.325
Right? There is no escaping.
993
01:16:49.110 --> 01:16:50.650
Sorry. I'm eating meat sticks.
994
01:16:52.870 --> 01:16:54.170
995
01:16:54.950 --> 01:16:56.410
996
01:16:57.005 --> 01:17:02.465
okay, doing your own research in Bitcoin if you're a true full Bitcoin citizen.
997
01:17:03.565 --> 01:17:05.800
There's no alternative to that. Every
998
01:17:06.180 --> 01:17:12.200
time the UX whining people go, but the UX needs to be better blah blah blah. It's true.
999
01:17:12.795 --> 01:17:19.455
It could be a lot better. It's never gonna be perfect because it's a rough consensus system that you shouldn't be trusting anybody,
1000
01:17:19.990 --> 01:17:22.090
and every time you make one step,
1001
01:17:22.950 --> 01:17:26.890
easier, it means you're probably giving trust to something
1002
01:17:27.565 --> 01:17:28.385
or someone
1003
01:17:29.165 --> 01:17:34.945
in that step. Right? So now you make it super easy, like, great, use Coinbase. Right?
1004
01:17:35.510 --> 01:17:42.970
Mhmm. Or even Robinhood or something like that. I mean, like, look at how many layers you are away from real Bitcoin. Right?
1005
01:17:43.430 --> 01:17:43.680
So,
1006
01:17:45.335 --> 01:17:46.875
we at least try
1007
01:17:47.815 --> 01:17:49.435
to expose gently
1008
01:17:49.815 --> 01:17:53.435
as much as we can of the real deal to the users
1009
01:17:54.110 --> 01:17:56.610
because we don't want them to be scammed
1010
01:17:57.710 --> 01:17:59.489
or to not be full citizens.
1011
01:18:02.034 --> 01:18:08.054
I I think that's very important, and I and I wish the UX people would sort of, like, internalize
1012
01:18:08.355 --> 01:18:15.440
that, that they have to push the users to the knowledge path. Right? They have to take the horse to the water.
1013
01:18:16.905 --> 01:18:22.925
1014
01:18:23.290 --> 01:18:28.110
systems that seem very hard to get off the ground is is it's sort of it's it's an amount of literacy.
1015
01:18:29.770 --> 01:18:30.270
Bitcoin,
1016
01:18:31.130 --> 01:18:32.595
especially like, Bitcoin,
1017
01:18:33.055 --> 01:18:36.415
especially if I'm, like, actually writing software that is more,
1018
01:18:37.215 --> 01:18:40.995
like, I'm trying to, like, mess around with, like, actually writing a wallet.
1019
01:18:41.340 --> 01:18:42.080
There's just
1020
01:18:42.380 --> 01:18:47.660
I don't know. It seems a lot to learn. I'm very bad at remembering what bips mean.
1021
01:18:48.060 --> 01:18:53.445
I guess I just need to immerse myself more in it. It'll become very obvious to you. It's like
1022
01:18:55.025 --> 01:18:57.525
1023
01:18:58.370 --> 01:19:02.230
I mean, and then there is the ones you forget. Right? Because there's all the consensus stuff.
1024
01:19:03.570 --> 01:19:08.935
Like, you know, there's, like, the flag bip and whatever bip. It's like forget about that stuff for wallets.
1025
01:19:10.515 --> 01:19:11.895
What I recommend actually,
1026
01:19:12.355 --> 01:19:12.755
go to,
1027
01:19:13.955 --> 01:19:14.455
James,
1028
01:19:15.395 --> 01:19:17.720
I always forget his last name. James
1029
01:19:18.660 --> 01:19:23.560
O'Brien? O'Byrne. O'Byrne. That's how yeah. The O'Byrne brothers. The O'Byrne brothers. Legends.
1030
01:19:23.940 --> 01:19:26.205
Yes. So James wrote,
1031
01:19:27.625 --> 01:19:28.764
what is it, code?
1032
01:19:32.400 --> 01:19:33.060
He he wrote
1033
01:19:33.600 --> 01:19:37.060
a a a CLI wallet. Right? So command line wallet,
1034
01:19:37.920 --> 01:19:39.460
to talk to his cold card.
1035
01:19:40.594 --> 01:19:43.175
What's nice though is Coldcore. Right? Coldcore.
1036
01:19:43.554 --> 01:19:45.815
That's it. And he used to be a core contributor.
1037
01:19:47.370 --> 01:19:50.350
What's really cool about that wallet is that it's bare.
1038
01:19:51.610 --> 01:19:58.565
So, if you're gonna if you go look at the code, you're not gonna get, like, all the noise from the UI stuff from anything else.
1039
01:19:58.865 --> 01:19:59.345
Mhmm.
1040
01:20:00.145 --> 01:20:02.085
And that'll give you, like, a nice perspective,
1041
01:20:03.105 --> 01:20:05.950
of, like, what it takes to write a wallet.
1042
01:20:07.610 --> 01:20:09.470
So, like, fantastic little project.
1043
01:20:10.250 --> 01:20:14.295
1044
01:20:15.635 --> 01:20:16.135
that
1045
01:20:17.475 --> 01:20:18.455
1046
01:20:19.315 --> 01:20:22.829
So, yeah, that's dips for you. That's rough consensus.
1047
01:20:23.610 --> 01:20:26.670
1048
01:20:27.530 --> 01:20:28.030
1049
01:20:28.975 --> 01:20:32.335
no. It's it's dude, I do not I cannot take any,
1050
01:20:33.695 --> 01:20:34.195
any
1051
01:20:36.094 --> 01:20:38.675
any credit on that. It's like it's all Hugo.
1052
01:20:40.079 --> 01:20:43.139
So, it's a Bitcoin secure multisig
1053
01:20:43.679 --> 01:20:44.179
setup.
1054
01:20:45.520 --> 01:20:53.764
So so there there is a fundamental problem, right, in multisig, which is how do how do you create the script, the the quorum
1055
01:20:54.500 --> 01:20:56.360
for the signers without
1056
01:20:57.060 --> 01:20:57.560
trusting
1057
01:20:58.020 --> 01:20:58.680
the network
1058
01:21:00.100 --> 01:21:02.120
that you use to talk to the signers?
1059
01:21:03.855 --> 01:21:05.315
It's not a simple problem.
1060
01:21:06.495 --> 01:21:10.550
So with cold card between cold cards aside from the bug we had,
1061
01:21:11.429 --> 01:21:15.290
you can trust the setup because the cold card keeps,
1062
01:21:16.630 --> 01:21:18.809
keeps a bunch of meta information,
1063
01:21:19.110 --> 01:21:19.605
right,
1064
01:21:20.085 --> 01:21:22.825
about the signers so that he can't cheat
1065
01:21:23.445 --> 01:21:28.090
about who's the signer so that he can maybe get a griefing attack or something like that.
1066
01:21:30.170 --> 01:21:31.949
We we had a bug that was fixed,
1067
01:21:33.050 --> 01:21:37.790
that was not we were trusting the the, essentially, the the wallet ID,
1068
01:21:39.995 --> 01:21:45.535
but but that's like that doesn't matter anyways because most of the other wallets were not checking anything.
1069
01:21:46.235 --> 01:21:46.735
So
1070
01:21:48.020 --> 01:21:51.560
what this new BIP tries to do is create a standard
1071
01:21:52.180 --> 01:21:56.760
of how to create a a a multisig wallet between different vendors.
1072
01:21:57.284 --> 01:22:21.435
Right? And and what it does is actually just creates a session. Right? So, you you know, it just shares shares a token with each other, and then you create a section a session of each other and then you say like, you know, hey. I am this x pub and this ID and this blah blah blah, and I'm gonna be signer number 1 and then you pass that to the next one, and then the next one identifies itself, and then, you know, and then you do the quorum. Right? And you create your your your redeem script.
1073
01:22:22.860 --> 01:22:25.040
And and, and this one uses,
1074
01:22:26.140 --> 01:22:26.640
descriptors.
1075
01:22:27.740 --> 01:22:28.240
Descriptors
1076
01:22:28.700 --> 01:22:32.305
is essentially the new right way of of creating
1077
01:22:33.565 --> 01:22:34.065
wallets,
1078
01:22:35.165 --> 01:22:36.225
but that's a tangent.
1079
01:22:37.485 --> 01:22:44.170
Anyways, so so that's the idea of this new BIP. There is no number for it. It's just a proposal right now on the mailing list.
1080
01:22:46.070 --> 01:22:53.805
1081
01:22:54.345 --> 01:23:04.969
1082
01:23:05.315 --> 01:23:08.375
You can do over the network. Right? Because let's say that
1083
01:23:08.835 --> 01:23:14.375
you you want to do your cold card with your unchained capital account. Lots of users do that.
1084
01:23:15.060 --> 01:23:16.660
Right now, they're using some,
1085
01:23:17.940 --> 01:23:19.080
some very complex,
1086
01:23:20.900 --> 01:23:26.224
setup with, I forgot the name of the of the of the thing that they created,
1087
01:23:26.605 --> 01:23:27.105
Caravan.
1088
01:23:29.405 --> 01:23:41.560
But this thing simplifies and creates an actual standard. Right? And and remember, right, hardware wallets are very limited in memory and processing, so, like, all these things have to be taken into consideration when you're creating these protocols.
1089
01:23:42.115 --> 01:23:44.855
1090
01:23:46.595 --> 01:23:54.490
that conversation so far the conversation so far is everything I was dreamed I dreamed it was gonna be. So I appreciate you both for having me on the show and
1091
01:23:54.870 --> 01:23:56.170
and having this great conversation.
1092
01:23:57.030 --> 01:23:57.530
I
1093
01:23:58.645 --> 01:24:02.264
I I think the important thing here for the freaks, just to
1094
01:24:03.125 --> 01:24:05.705
to show where the issue is, the issue lies
1095
01:24:08.100 --> 01:24:12.920
with in multi in a multisig setup, if we need to verify what's going on,
1096
01:24:13.380 --> 01:24:16.200
the each signing device needs to know
1097
01:24:16.735 --> 01:24:22.675
what the other devices are. Each signing device needs to know everything that's going on. And in a single sig,
1098
01:24:23.215 --> 01:24:31.360
if you have a single sig cold card, for instance, obviously, that cold card knows exactly what the fuck's going on because it's the only device in in in
1099
01:24:31.900 --> 01:24:34.880
the signature scheme. It's a one of 1. But if you have multisig,
1100
01:24:35.565 --> 01:24:46.600
all these different devices need to communicate with each other and be able to tell each other what is going on in the bigger picture the bigger picture scheme of things. And with multisig, we see a lot of people pushing,
1101
01:24:47.380 --> 01:24:54.665
for good reason pushing for multi vendor, multisig because they wanna reduce trust in any specific vendor. They wanna reduce their trust in Rodolfo,
1102
01:24:55.125 --> 01:25:15.425
1103
01:25:15.885 --> 01:25:19.744
1104
01:25:20.125 --> 01:25:22.219
You wanna create a multisig between them.
1105
01:25:23.159 --> 01:25:29.900
Yep. You're not even at a point to when you choose the the 2 or 3 or the m event. Right? You you have 2 separate devices,
1106
01:25:30.905 --> 01:25:35.565
2 different companies, and you wanna make a multisig between them. Right? Yeah. Let's say you choose
1107
01:25:35.945 --> 01:25:36.445
Spectre
1108
01:25:37.225 --> 01:25:38.605
to be your coordinator.
1109
01:25:40.760 --> 01:25:48.620
Okay? If you ask cold card plus cold card, you can make the 2 cold cards stock to each other because same vendor, we can create the specs
1110
01:25:49.555 --> 01:25:53.255
And, you know, vendors are gonna always have their own specs between
1111
01:25:53.555 --> 01:25:56.055
their own devices because it's easy. Right?
1112
01:25:56.440 --> 01:26:02.220
But my competitors are gonna probably not gonna follow my spec because they wanna sell more of their devices. Right?
1113
01:26:03.640 --> 01:26:04.140
So
1114
01:26:04.825 --> 01:26:05.965
we need a coordinator,
1115
01:26:06.345 --> 01:26:08.285
right, to talk between these wallets.
1116
01:26:08.825 --> 01:26:15.290
1117
01:26:16.150 --> 01:26:26.965
1118
01:26:28.385 --> 01:26:30.565
respecting standard devices. Right?
1119
01:26:31.860 --> 01:26:35.960
Code cards are a little bit weird that way, but most hardware wallets cannot coordinate
1120
01:26:36.420 --> 01:26:38.040
multi signature quorums.
1121
01:26:38.465 --> 01:26:39.844
Right? They cannot create
1122
01:26:40.304 --> 01:26:41.844
a a a redeem script.
1123
01:26:43.105 --> 01:26:43.605
So
1124
01:26:44.065 --> 01:26:55.690
what happens is so you you you plug in your ledger and your cold card and and you make them, you know, say hi to to to Specter and and and then register their ex pubs. Right?
1125
01:26:56.735 --> 01:26:58.675
So they're they're extended public keys
1126
01:26:59.695 --> 01:27:03.795
so that Specter knows which keys to use to create the multisig
1127
01:27:04.560 --> 01:27:06.579
m of n quorum. Right?
1128
01:27:07.280 --> 01:27:09.060
Right. So so now the problem is
1129
01:27:10.239 --> 01:27:11.619
you need to trust
1130
01:27:12.685 --> 01:27:14.385
that the 2 devices
1131
01:27:14.764 --> 01:27:17.744
are saying who they are and the and the the coordinator
1132
01:27:18.525 --> 01:27:20.145
can has to trust
1133
01:27:20.739 --> 01:27:27.719
that is receiving the right information. Right? Because you could have because every time you now you're touching a computer, right, and the computer could have viruses.
1134
01:27:28.535 --> 01:27:31.355
So if there is a virus on a lecternum or a specter,
1135
01:27:32.135 --> 01:27:35.275
we could be telling specter the wrong information. It could be saying,
1136
01:27:35.650 --> 01:27:38.950
hey, this cold card is real and say the cold card is real.
1137
01:27:39.650 --> 01:27:48.295
And and then it says And Ben sneaks in one of his own x pubs and now Exactly. Spend your funds. Exactly. And says that, oh, this ledger is real too.
1138
01:27:48.675 --> 01:27:50.375
Wait. No. That's Ben's keys.
1139
01:27:51.155 --> 01:27:57.110
Right? We're watching you, Ben. Exactly. Right? And then he creates the redeem script with Ben Skis.
1140
01:27:59.489 --> 01:28:00.389
Right? Listen.
1141
01:28:00.929 --> 01:28:02.995
Again, the problem with with
1142
01:28:03.475 --> 01:28:08.295
all this shit show that, for example, happened today with the disclosure of a competitor,
1143
01:28:10.035 --> 01:28:12.130
is that there's a lot of FUD
1144
01:28:12.590 --> 01:28:13.090
around
1145
01:28:13.390 --> 01:28:15.969
very important topics. Right? Like,
1146
01:28:16.350 --> 01:28:18.770
yes, it is very important to get this right,
1147
01:28:19.105 --> 01:28:21.525
but no, there is no need for hysteria
1148
01:28:22.145 --> 01:28:24.965
because I have, dude, we have like
1149
01:28:25.744 --> 01:28:27.844
a lot of devices in the market,
1150
01:28:28.224 --> 01:28:31.050
and I have not seen a single,
1151
01:28:33.190 --> 01:28:33.690
evidence
1152
01:28:34.150 --> 01:28:34.650
of
1153
01:28:35.270 --> 01:28:38.010
a exploit of these in the wild, right?
1154
01:28:38.575 --> 01:28:40.835
These are not easy to do exploits,
1155
01:28:42.255 --> 01:28:46.435
but it but they are possible. Right? So that's why it's important for us to fix them,
1156
01:28:47.489 --> 01:28:51.590
So I I just, I guess, wanted to put a caveat in there so people need to chill.
1157
01:28:53.705 --> 01:28:58.685
1158
01:28:59.065 --> 01:29:03.780
who worked on this bit is suggesting a method where a hardware wallet could create
1159
01:29:04.240 --> 01:29:05.540
the, like, the,
1160
01:29:06.640 --> 01:29:11.140
1161
01:29:11.685 --> 01:29:15.704
the issue is you need to know each cosigner, right? And you need to prove
1162
01:29:16.005 --> 01:29:16.824
each cosigner,
1163
01:29:18.324 --> 01:29:20.264
so that you don't have malicious addresses.
1164
01:29:21.190 --> 01:29:22.090
That's the problem.
1165
01:29:22.630 --> 01:29:24.810
So the way to solve this
1166
01:29:25.430 --> 01:29:28.970
is so that on the first setup, there's gonna be trust there,
1167
01:29:29.715 --> 01:29:31.975
You're gonna essentially register each device,
1168
01:29:32.995 --> 01:29:34.455
right, with the coordinator
1169
01:29:35.555 --> 01:29:36.330
and each other,
1170
01:29:36.890 --> 01:29:37.390
ideally.
1171
01:29:38.330 --> 01:29:52.094
Code card does that, but it doesn't necessarily have to be each everyone knowing. But at least the coordination device would tell the coordinator, here's my xpub. Exactly. But you would have been a session open to pass the xpub first.
1172
01:29:52.955 --> 01:29:56.410
Right? So before I send you the xpub, we have to exchange some secrets
1173
01:29:56.790 --> 01:29:57.850
and shake hands.
1174
01:29:58.390 --> 01:30:02.565
So we do a handshake, we have a session open, then I pass you my x pub.
1175
01:30:03.925 --> 01:30:07.545
1176
01:30:08.324 --> 01:30:17.989
1177
01:30:20.665 --> 01:30:25.485
1178
01:30:25.849 --> 01:30:28.190
1179
01:30:28.570 --> 01:30:32.829
You so so you derive addresses from your xpub. Right? Mhmm.
1180
01:30:33.425 --> 01:30:36.885
So if you trust each other's xpubs, now you can trust the addresses.
1181
01:30:37.344 --> 01:30:41.525
Okay. Okay. That's all. So so, essentially, that's what this is. It's just a spec,
1182
01:30:41.985 --> 01:30:42.804
a a standard
1183
01:30:43.140 --> 01:30:43.880
for you
1184
01:30:44.340 --> 01:30:44.840
to
1185
01:30:45.140 --> 01:30:46.840
to trust the setup.
1186
01:30:49.220 --> 01:30:50.120
1187
01:30:50.715 --> 01:30:57.375
let's say we're doing this all with, like, SD cards. You had a bunch of or you had these 2 wallets and they each had micro SD
1188
01:30:58.150 --> 01:31:01.450
cards. So you would maybe export an XPub.
1189
01:31:01.910 --> 01:31:07.925
1190
01:31:08.465 --> 01:31:10.165
coordination thing. Okay.
1191
01:31:10.625 --> 01:31:12.885
So and I don't think there's gonna be anything
1192
01:31:13.425 --> 01:31:13.925
soon.
1193
01:31:14.590 --> 01:31:22.610
So how would you coordinate without plugging into It's gonna be it's gonna be micro c for cold card or USB for cold card, and the other ones are gonna probably be USB.
1194
01:31:23.345 --> 01:31:25.065
Okay. Or Or QR.
1195
01:31:25.505 --> 01:31:30.165
1196
01:31:32.210 --> 01:31:37.670
1197
01:31:39.090 --> 01:31:44.545
So it's it's a lot less data. The the problem so QRs are fucked, completely boned
1198
01:31:44.925 --> 01:31:46.625
once you have large
1199
01:31:46.925 --> 01:31:49.265
transactions doing PSVT and multisig.
1200
01:31:49.739 --> 01:31:52.640
1201
01:31:53.340 --> 01:31:55.280
they clearly know what an XPUB is.
1202
01:31:55.580 --> 01:31:58.800
To the freaks that are listening, the XPUB is your view key.
1203
01:31:59.285 --> 01:32:01.065
So it allows you to view transactions,
1204
01:32:02.165 --> 01:32:13.699
it allows you to view balances and, you know, create addresses and whatnot. So let's just But you can't spend it without your private key, which is your spend key. Exactly. But the XPUB is not
1205
01:32:14.000 --> 01:32:15.219
1206
01:32:15.715 --> 01:32:19.975
The XPUB is like a short version of your public key.
1207
01:32:22.835 --> 01:32:24.295
The same way your XPUB
1208
01:32:25.070 --> 01:32:29.890
is the short version. Now you're just confused receiver. I know, but, hey. Listen. I have to put that out there.
1209
01:32:30.990 --> 01:32:42.665
1210
01:32:43.760 --> 01:32:46.100
1211
01:32:46.880 --> 01:32:50.740
like, cryptography. Right? So, like, you have a private, you have a secret,
1212
01:32:51.185 --> 01:32:53.125
and then from the secret, you derive
1213
01:32:53.425 --> 01:32:53.925
your,
1214
01:32:55.025 --> 01:32:56.005
your identifier.
1215
01:32:56.705 --> 01:32:59.205
That's what the expub is. It's an identifier.
1216
01:32:59.905 --> 01:33:00.405
But
1217
01:33:00.960 --> 01:33:01.940
we got clever,
1218
01:33:02.560 --> 01:33:05.380
and we generate addresses from the identifier.
1219
01:33:12.795 --> 01:33:13.535
1220
01:33:14.395 --> 01:33:21.910
one other thing that has or some kinda surprised me about multisig, maybe I don't completely understand it, but part of how you're spending
1221
01:33:22.610 --> 01:33:25.750
when you're spending multisig, you're satisfying a script.
1222
01:33:26.375 --> 01:33:27.114
1223
01:33:27.415 --> 01:33:28.235
1224
01:33:28.855 --> 01:33:34.715
there's a there's an aspect of that you don't just need the, like, 2 of 3
1225
01:33:35.255 --> 01:33:41.870
signers to satisfy the script. You You need to have the script. You need to know what the script is, which is really That's right. Like,
1226
01:33:42.270 --> 01:33:42.770
it
1227
01:33:43.285 --> 01:33:47.865
kinda surprised me and as a concept, but, like, here's another thing that I really need to secure.
1228
01:33:48.405 --> 01:33:50.265
Obviously, if the script is a really
1229
01:33:50.840 --> 01:33:56.219
widely understood standard, then I could just refer to it by its maybe it's BIP or something. It's not.
1230
01:33:56.599 --> 01:34:03.545
1231
01:34:05.525 --> 01:34:14.475
So the the problem is multisig is not ready for the average person, period. Anybody who says the contrary is fucking lying to themselves or is way too advanced and doesn't understand that people are just too dumb for it.
1232
01:34:24.540 --> 01:34:37.465
1233
01:34:38.245 --> 01:34:38.745
1234
01:34:39.730 --> 01:34:40.230
documented
1235
01:34:40.770 --> 01:34:41.270
beautifully
1236
01:34:41.889 --> 01:34:44.310
their redeem script on walletsrecovery.org.
1237
01:34:45.889 --> 01:34:49.725
1238
01:34:50.105 --> 01:34:51.725
I use solved loosely,
1239
01:34:53.945 --> 01:34:59.140
but if if if okay. So so if you're a freak, and and let's be honest, the freaks are more advanced
1240
01:34:59.520 --> 01:35:00.260
than 99%
1241
01:35:00.720 --> 01:35:05.700
of people on this planet. Like, this is why, like, I'm freaking out and I I you gotta remember
1242
01:35:06.155 --> 01:35:09.775
that most people don't realize what's going on right now, and that's even more scary.
1243
01:35:11.195 --> 01:35:15.935
But, back back to multisig, like if you're a freak and you're advanced and you're using multisig,
1244
01:35:16.940 --> 01:35:22.720
I think, like, a very actionable and I try and keep the show as actionable as possible. A a very actionable best practice
1245
01:35:23.180 --> 01:35:24.960
is to have a clean device,
1246
01:35:25.505 --> 01:35:27.045
a dedicated computer,
1247
01:35:27.905 --> 01:35:29.525
that's not connected to the Internet,
1248
01:35:30.385 --> 01:35:36.849
that that is running your, you know, has has your full wallet on there. I mean, not the private keys, but it has your full,
1249
01:35:38.130 --> 01:35:51.520
your full setup there. Right? With with everything ready to go. So so man confirm addresses on it and you can make sure that that everything is is is kosher. Right? K. Yeah. Let let me this is the the advice that I give to people in general about Bitcoin.
1250
01:35:52.300 --> 01:35:54.720
1251
01:35:55.180 --> 01:35:57.120
old Mac laptop.
1252
01:35:58.095 --> 01:35:58.595
Okay?
1253
01:35:59.535 --> 01:36:00.035
So
1254
01:36:00.495 --> 01:36:05.395
aside from Linux being the original shitcoin, because FreeBSD is really the true OS,
1255
01:36:07.220 --> 01:36:09.800
Like the reality is FreeBSD and Linux,
1256
01:36:10.500 --> 01:36:16.905
for the average person who don't make their full time job maintaining wallets, it's gonna be a problem because
1257
01:36:17.764 --> 01:36:19.145
when they have packages
1258
01:36:19.684 --> 01:36:23.465
for wallets, they might run into issues later on, right, with backups.
1259
01:36:24.070 --> 01:36:28.010
So what I like about an old Mac is that
1260
01:36:28.630 --> 01:36:33.385
it it it's like it is a true free b s d sort of software,
1261
01:36:33.765 --> 01:36:39.545
but it's like it's got all the sort of, you know, user friendly bullshit on top. Right?
1262
01:36:39.925 --> 01:36:41.785
So, it's very easy
1263
01:36:42.730 --> 01:36:46.429
for that person to migrate Appleshit to Appleshit later if they need to,
1264
01:36:46.810 --> 01:36:48.670
and it's easy to back up.
1265
01:36:49.610 --> 01:36:51.390
So and it's secure enough.
1266
01:36:53.375 --> 01:36:55.955
It's actually probably more secure than most Linux distros.
1267
01:36:56.975 --> 01:37:00.275
1268
01:37:00.830 --> 01:37:11.645
1269
01:37:12.025 --> 01:37:14.365
Uh-huh. It's a it's a useful reasonable compromise.
1270
01:37:14.825 --> 01:37:15.325
So
1271
01:37:15.840 --> 01:37:21.460
you have a simple computer that just works. Right? That has reasonable drivers and all that shit.
1272
01:37:21.840 --> 01:37:23.455
So what you do
1273
01:37:23.835 --> 01:37:26.495
is keep a copy of the last
1274
01:37:27.435 --> 01:37:30.015
working version of the of the coordination
1275
01:37:30.395 --> 01:37:30.895
wallet.
1276
01:37:31.329 --> 01:37:34.230
Right. Either for multisig or single. Keep everything.
1277
01:37:34.610 --> 01:37:41.575
Yes. Just keep fucking every just have not use all those acts. I disagree. I disagree with Rodolfo on that. You're completely
1278
01:37:42.115 --> 01:37:55.150
1279
01:37:56.395 --> 01:38:05.935
because you're owned anyways. Okay. But the point is you wanna save you wanna save as much information as possible. And the trade off there is is really is mostly a privacy trade off,
1280
01:38:14.995 --> 01:38:22.054
1281
01:38:22.435 --> 01:38:23.895
that will screw you
1282
01:38:24.200 --> 01:38:34.335
on your coordination wallet. Right? So you could have, like, an electron virus kind of right. 6102 an aneurysm over here, by the way, in the comments. I know. It's a lot of fun.
1283
01:38:36.074 --> 01:38:36.574
And
1284
01:38:37.195 --> 01:38:39.775
it it it listen. Hardware people appreciate Apple.
1285
01:38:40.750 --> 01:38:41.250
So,
1286
01:38:43.230 --> 01:38:46.530
so, anyways, my my point is just you have have a laptop
1287
01:38:47.070 --> 01:39:06.710
that that's your, say, your like, that's your Bitcoin machine. Right? And, ideally, that that Bitcoin machine does not really touch the Internet. You don't have to have your phone on it. None of that stuff. Right? Well, why a laptop? It doesn't need I mean, I think a desktop is better because it doesn't have a camera or a microphone or a Wi Fi or have to plug shit into it to use. It's like, I'm trying to be practical.
1288
01:39:07.415 --> 01:39:14.715
1289
01:39:15.099 --> 01:39:22.800
1290
01:39:23.554 --> 01:39:26.855
it's just like, listen. So you prepare your transactions
1291
01:39:27.235 --> 01:39:28.295
1292
01:39:28.675 --> 01:39:36.780
1293
01:39:37.080 --> 01:39:40.220
It's for real money. Don't don't waste your time, effort,
1294
01:39:40.845 --> 01:39:41.825
and and money
1295
01:39:42.365 --> 01:39:42.865
on
1296
01:39:43.645 --> 01:39:50.145
buying cup of coffee with, like, a air gapped computer for your hardware wallets. Okay? Please
1297
01:39:50.830 --> 01:40:03.045
don't mix things. For that, like have a stupid fucking wallet on your phone that's single sig, okay, and that that you have a $100 worth of Bitcoin there and that's what you use to pay for stuff.
1298
01:40:03.824 --> 01:40:07.970
This is for your savings account that you don't touch all the time.
1299
01:40:08.450 --> 01:40:12.870
That's when you have your your your, like, your let's call it your Bitcoin laptop.
1300
01:40:13.490 --> 01:40:14.950
Right? That you have
1301
01:40:15.784 --> 01:40:16.925
1302
01:40:17.304 --> 01:40:18.685
on a PowerBook.
1303
01:40:19.065 --> 01:40:21.725
1304
01:40:22.580 --> 01:40:23.080
by
1305
01:40:23.380 --> 01:40:23.540
means to,
1306
01:40:25.060 --> 01:40:26.280
make your life shorter.
1307
01:40:27.940 --> 01:40:31.880
I can't say the never mind. It's not good for
1308
01:40:32.245 --> 01:40:36.105
the Internet these days to say things. It's like you cannot joke about suicide.
1309
01:40:41.060 --> 01:40:42.280
1310
01:40:43.140 --> 01:40:45.880
Serious. Especially in this and especially in this space,
1311
01:40:46.340 --> 01:40:46.840
please
1312
01:40:47.300 --> 01:40:52.265
please, freaks, do not keep more money in the dollar than you can afford to lose. Exactly.
1313
01:40:52.805 --> 01:40:56.745
1314
01:40:58.000 --> 01:41:02.060
you know, making bad technical decisions that end in in life ending situations,
1315
01:41:04.120 --> 01:41:12.455
seriously, so you have your your your Bitcoin laptop that doesn't touch the Internet, and this is really cool because you can experiment with different wallets.
1316
01:41:12.915 --> 01:41:19.980
You can do all sorts of shit, and then you're not as concerned about USB plugging your hardware wallets or none of that stuff.
1317
01:41:20.280 --> 01:41:23.500
Right? This is your Bitcoin playing machine for your savings.
1318
01:41:25.315 --> 01:41:31.975
And, you know, and then when you need to build transactions you can, you know, you can either build transactions on on this thing by importing
1319
01:41:33.110 --> 01:41:34.409
latest block data,
1320
01:41:35.110 --> 01:41:42.625
via snicker net, or maybe you plug into your local network, and you just and and there is nothing on this laptop running but,
1321
01:41:43.965 --> 01:41:49.970
a a phone node on it. Right? If you wanna just keep it simple by having just one thing, but you don't need,
1322
01:41:51.070 --> 01:41:51.570
more
1323
01:41:52.030 --> 01:41:54.290
than your only q x o information.
1324
01:41:55.310 --> 01:42:02.335
So you could just sort of catch up to the amount of, amount of blocks that sort of build your own transaction. That's all you need, really.
1325
01:42:03.915 --> 01:42:08.750
1326
01:42:09.369 --> 01:42:11.070
He uses Sparrow and Spectre,
1327
01:42:11.610 --> 01:42:13.550
the same wallet on different machines.
1328
01:42:13.885 --> 01:42:18.625
Yeah. And, like, so so this is a perfect case. Like, as as things are getting,
1329
01:42:19.165 --> 01:42:20.625
as as you have more value,
1330
01:42:21.330 --> 01:42:22.550
that that you're securing,
1331
01:42:23.490 --> 01:42:25.830
this is a this is a great way to,
1332
01:42:27.410 --> 01:42:31.764
it's a it's a great way to reduce trust in any individual software, especially if you don't,
1333
01:42:32.304 --> 01:42:35.025
have the ability to read the code or verify the code,
1334
01:42:35.425 --> 01:42:47.385
because you can you can make sure that on both machines, you have 2 different software packages. They're both they're both interacting with the network through Bitcoin Core, and you could confirm that the receive addresses are the same before you send to them.
1335
01:42:47.945 --> 01:42:58.179
That's a beautiful one. Just to show, like, where we're at in terms of verifying receive addresses and how how important it is to make sure that the the address that you're sending to is an address that you control.
1336
01:42:59.280 --> 01:43:02.260
We're going above and beyond. The the the practicality
1337
01:43:02.640 --> 01:43:05.284
of of this type of attack, I mean,
1338
01:43:05.744 --> 01:43:17.820
the the real guys who are really vulnerable are the traders who are interacting on these websites and depositing Bitcoin into, like, a Coinbase or a Kraken or a Bitfinex, they have no way to verify those receive addresses.
1339
01:43:18.360 --> 01:43:23.099
Yep. I mean, technically, if they were doing it correct if they were doing it, you know,
1340
01:43:23.605 --> 01:43:27.385
as trust minimized as possible, those services would offer a PGP signed,
1341
01:43:28.325 --> 01:43:33.170
address. They don't do that. So really, we have we have 1,000,000,000 1,000,000,000
1342
01:43:34.190 --> 01:43:36.290
and and 1,000,000,000 of dollars with the Bitcoin
1343
01:43:36.670 --> 01:43:49.445
is being transacted with every day on receive addresses that aren't being verified, and there aren't any attacks. But it's still something that we need to obviously be concerned about if you're talking about your HODL stash that that that you want to last generations.
1344
01:43:50.130 --> 01:43:50.869
1345
01:43:51.170 --> 01:44:11.490
1346
01:44:11.870 --> 01:44:16.690
But, like, while morons are fucking copying and pasting an address from a browser
1347
01:44:17.135 --> 01:44:19.395
to send real fucking money to.
1348
01:44:22.815 --> 01:44:27.620
The disparity, the the cognitive dissonance in this space is just infuriating,
1349
01:44:31.520 --> 01:44:33.780
and we haven't even got to tap root yet.
1350
01:44:37.414 --> 01:44:53.800
Wait. So what all this to say that this this this BIP still doesn't Wait. Wait. We're done. Mechanical multi state. It off? Let's cut this shit off. Right? What? No. No. No. No. Continue, dude. I I have, like, I've already I'm already, my kids are already in bed. No. No. I'm saying, should we cut off the giveaway?
1351
01:44:55.045 --> 01:44:55.545
Oh.
1352
01:44:56.885 --> 01:45:03.205
It's in 15 minutes. It's the price in 15 minutes. Alright. You guys have, 2 minutes. So you have until,
1353
01:45:04.630 --> 01:45:05.130
48
1354
01:45:06.070 --> 01:45:07.050
on the clock.
1355
01:45:07.750 --> 01:45:10.970
Whatever is your time, 48 on the clock to give,
1356
01:45:11.350 --> 01:45:12.250
a price,
1357
01:45:12.555 --> 01:45:15.535
and then we're gonna and then we're gonna, check.
1358
01:45:16.075 --> 01:45:20.895
1359
01:45:21.195 --> 01:45:25.760
I don't wanna go back. We'll we'll figure it out. Yeah. I'm I'm totally game for that.
1360
01:45:26.060 --> 01:45:36.405
I'm Sean Sean Stacken is asking in the comments what the giveaway is. The giveaway is if you get it, the price on the top of the the price the price sticker on the top, which is Coinbase, Coinbase Pro,
1361
01:45:37.105 --> 01:45:39.445
the evil empire, the the price
1362
01:45:39.810 --> 01:45:41.030
in 14 minutes,
1363
01:45:41.410 --> 01:45:43.350
you know, when the the new hour calls,
1364
01:45:43.810 --> 01:45:49.175
the closest to that is gonna get a free cold card. And if you're within a dollar, you get a free Block Lock Mini.
1365
01:45:50.855 --> 01:45:58.875
And, Rodolfo is gonna cut it off whenever he deems fit, and I apparently, that's in under 2 minutes. Yeah. Hang on. I'm just gonna buy us I'm just gonna put in a sell order.
1366
01:46:00.570 --> 01:46:02.909
We've officially pumped the price. That's right.
1367
01:46:03.530 --> 01:46:05.949
The scam is over. We've fucking done it.
1368
01:46:08.525 --> 01:46:10.305
1369
01:46:10.685 --> 01:46:14.450
1370
01:46:23.725 --> 01:46:31.090
1371
01:46:32.610 --> 01:46:35.429
This is like I don't even get a morning stiffy on this.
1372
01:46:38.130 --> 01:46:38.790